Military Review

The expert commented on the messages about the battle between the pilots in the cockpit of the An-148

145
The details related to the crash of the An-148 aircraft of Saratov Airlines, which was flying from Moscow to Orsk, continue to be published. Recall that the plane at high speed crashed into the ground, after which an explosion occurred. All passengers and crew members (total - 71 people) died.


In the press today, the topic that deciphering the speech “black box” showed that there was a skirmish between the pilots began to be actively discussed. It was reported that the conversation on the raised tones took place just a few seconds before the plane crash in the suburbs.

The situation with the squabbled crew during the flight for Russia Today commented on the member of the Public Council under the Rostransnadzor, Honored Pilot of the USSR Oleg Smirnov. According to him, a skirmish between the pilots could occur after the discovery on the displays of the aircraft of different speed indicators. The specialist notes that the pilots got nervous, tried to solve this problem by increasing the speed. At the same time, the plane leaned toward the ground, which ultimately led to the catastrophe. At the same time, the expert wonders why the warning system about the need to stop the decline did not work.

The expert commented on the messages about the battle between the pilots in the cockpit of the An-148


Oleg Smirnov:
There are height gauges. One is barometric, which shows pressure, the second is a radio altimeter, which measures altitude up to a centimeter. It has not yet been established whether these devices were operational, but why did they not take measures to remove the list with their help? On An-148 and on other modern liners, automation in such cases warns "Stop the decline." Despite this decline has not been stopped, the bank has not been removed. After decoding the second recorder, many questions remain.


Other experts note that the An-148 pilots completely relied on automation, which at a certain point in time began to fail, but the final single decision was not made by the crew. This may well indicate a conversation on a high tone in the cockpit before the fateful moment.
Photos used:
POPPY
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 16 February 2018 17: 15
    +4
    Now you can all of these "experts" .. Who was there, they died. You can safely appoint a switchman. You have to wait for the conclusions of the commission, and not who knows.
    1. Volodin
      Volodin 16 February 2018 17: 19
      +51
      Quote: 210ox
      We must wait for the findings of the commission


      We wait. Here, for example, on the Tu-154 (in Sochi) we are waiting for the second year. Sometimes it seems that the work of such commissions is not to determine the real causes of the crash, but to delay the investigation so that as many people as possible forget about the catastrophe.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 16 February 2018 17: 25
        +9
        And what do you suggest? Continue to build conspiracy theories, listen to the ravings of unknown things from aviation and magicians from special services?
        Quote: Volodin
        Quote: 210ox
        We must wait for the findings of the commission


        We wait. Here, for example, on the Tu-154 (in Sochi) we are waiting for the second year. Sometimes it seems that the work of such commissions is not to determine the real causes of the crash, but to delay the investigation so that as many people as possible forget about the catastrophe.
        1. Volodin
          Volodin 16 February 2018 17: 29
          +24
          Quote: 210ox
          And what do you suggest?

          I do not offer anything (because I work not in the MAC, not in the Ministry of Transport and not in Rostransnadzor), I state the fact
          1. Vovanfalcon
            Vovanfalcon 17 February 2018 07: 26
            +3
            And the IAC does not investigate the Sochi disaster, not a single line on the site. Engaged in the Moscow Region, they have their own committee and the whole institute.
            1. Vladimir16
              Vladimir16 17 February 2018 08: 51
              +3
              Quote: Volodin
              I state a fact

              You, my friend, are engaged in conspiracy theories, not facts:
              Quote: Volodin
              Sometimes it seems that the work of such commissions is not to determine the real causes of the crash, but

              Rock the boat. Tragedy is no reason to be clever. hi
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 16 February 2018 17: 42
        +9
        Quote: Volodin
        We wait. Here, for example, on the Tu-154 (in Sochi) we are waiting for the second year. Sometimes it seems that the work of such commissions is not to determine the real causes of the crash, but to delay the investigation so that as many people as possible forget about the catastrophe.

        The real reasons will be brought up to those who need to know this, and the commission is not obliged to report to social networks.
        1. Volodin
          Volodin 16 February 2018 17: 58
          +23
          Quote: Piramidon
          but the commission is not obliged to report to social networks.

          And besides social networks there are official media. Or is it the presence of official media only for show? Then, for some reason, everyone resents where the rumors and speculations come from about the "terrorist attack aboard Tu," or about the "thousands of dead Wagner fighters" in Syria. These strange attempts of officials to ignore the presence of official media and the real interest of citizens in the life of the country and use "our great friends" for riveting fakes.
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 16 February 2018 18: 17
            +10
            Quote: Volodin
            Quote: Piramidon
            but the commission is not obliged to report to social networks.

            And besides social networks there are official media. Or is it the presence of official media only for show? Then, for some reason, everyone resents where the rumors and speculations come from about the "terrorist attack aboard Tu," or about the "thousands of dead Wagner fighters" in Syria. These strange attempts of officials to ignore the presence of official media and the real interest of citizens in the life of the country and use "our great friends" for riveting fakes.

            I repeat once again. Not everything you need to know not only social networks, but also the media. For this, there are specialists in state structures for public relations and give out the information that is considered necessary. And you can leave your angry indignations to yourself. In all times there was such a thing as “chipboard information” and no one is obliged to disclose it to you to satisfy your idle curiosity.
        2. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 18: 47
          +14
          Quote: Piramidon
          .. and the commission is not obliged to report to social networks.

          Let's disagree with you: social networks are also citizens of the country. If you hide the results only among “who should”, then there will be no changes, there is something to change. And among those “who should” there are many who want to blur the results - they don’t want to answer.
          The real reasons lie in the CRM plane, not least: statistics
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 16 February 2018 18: 53
            +9
            Quote: Pete Mitchell
            Quote: Piramidon
            .. and the commission is not obliged to report to social networks.

            Let's disagree with you: social networks are also citizens of the country. If you hide the results only among “who should”, then there will be no changes, there is something to change. And among those “who should” there are many who want to blur the results - they don’t want to answer.
            The real reasons lie in the CRM plane, not least: statistics

            Give all the state secrets in the social network !!! So what? There are already many, excessively curious, users demand to lay out the performance characteristics of the latest weapons on public display. Native American national hut (figwam) to help you curious philistines. Rumble, CIA accomplices.
            1. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 19: 08
              +10
              Quote: Piramidon
              .. You give all state secrets to the social network !!! So what.

              Of course not. But I’ll give an example of the Swedes: state secrets are the secrets of the Moscow Region and the medical file, everything else can be found in the public domain.
              There will always be those who want to blur the results of investigations in any field: responsibility is such a heavy burden ...
            2. Svarog51
              Svarog51 16 February 2018 19: 15
              +12
              Stepan, welcome hi Do not distort. Pete Mitchell knows what he is talking about, he has many years of practical experience behind him. He is no less expert in the article knows the situation. It is not necessary to secret a civil tragedy, otherwise we will reach banal accidents. It is necessary to thoroughly understand what happened and draw appropriate conclusions for the future. In 92 we had a plane crash, 84 people died. True, the plane crashed while landing. I was due to official duties at the scene of the disaster. I do not want a repetition. This is not a war or military equipment, and people died civilians.
              1. Piramidon
                Piramidon 16 February 2018 19: 29
                +6
                Quote: Svarog51
                It is not necessary to secret a civil tragedy, otherwise we will reach banal accidents.

                I agree. But I didn’t mean secrecy in this particular area of ​​emergency. And even that, it is necessary to bring to the "general public" a dosed info. And then tomorrow the relatives of the victims will take revenge on the relatives of the crew members. It’s just that you don’t need to draw conclusions about hanging labels and accusations based on rotten data on the basis of some speculation of JOURNALISTS (we now have every gopher - an agronomist, every user - a journalist). IMHO hi
                1. Pete mitchell
                  Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 19: 58
                  +8
                  Quote: Piramidon
                  .. need to bring to the "general public" dosed information

                  Or vice versa: if there is enough objective information from the official authorities, it will be more difficult for journalists to "manipulate the news."
              2. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 19: 52
                +7
                Quote: Svarog51
                This is not a war or military equipment, and people died civilians.

                Sergey welcome hi
                Failure of "aneroid membrane", SHS: whatever you call failure is not very simple, probably only problems with "jumping volts" are worse. They were confused and the actions of the left do not stand up to criticism, based on the available data. The situation is tough, but it should not have led to a catastrophe: I think the commission will confirm this ... We are sitting very hard - they will tear out: the situation required a switch of logic - we do not propose a normal flight, we cut for survival ..
                1. Svarog51
                  Svarog51 16 February 2018 20: 26
                  +3
                  Greetings Tramp hi For now, I will refrain from evaluating, well, not a pro, I’m better to be silent. I wish you with Andrey K to communicate, the benefit for the case would be.
                  1. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 20: 34
                    +7
                    Quote: Svarog51
                    ..with Andrey K to chat ..

                    It's nice to talk to people who are in their place. Tough situation: the normal flight is over - then we cut for survival, and everyone would return home ..
                    1. Svarog51
                      Svarog51 16 February 2018 20: 52
                      +2
                      It's nice to talk to people who are in their place.

                      You professionals better talk without intermediaries. Rumors unnecessary will be less to walk. Did the mail work?
                      1. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 20: 59
                        +7
                        I will check bullyas Vysotsky had there: gossip says that the rumors were canceled ... The journal should be chased of course: people died, and they only care about ratings, rubbish ...
                    2. Svarog51
                      Svarog51 16 February 2018 21: 24
                      +3
                      With rumors - mercilessly fight, but reliable information - green light. It may help someone to draw the right conclusions and save lives.
                2. okko077
                  okko077 16 February 2018 23: 55
                  +5
                  I do not believe in any version, as a special. Everything that was uttered completely nonsense and could happen only with gross violations during the preparation for the flight, or during the development of this training ... But no one will say this under the guise of the memory of the dead ..... and corporate solidarity.
              3. verner1967
                verner1967 16 February 2018 20: 33
                +1
                Quote: Svarog51
                In 92 we had a plane crash, 84 people died.

                if not a secret, where is it?
                1. Svarog51
                  Svarog51 16 February 2018 20: 39
                  +4
                  Ivanovo When landing on August 27, 1992, the Tu-134A crashed near the village of Lebyazhy meadow. A terrible sight.
                  1. Ascetic
                    Ascetic 16 February 2018 21: 49
                    +5
                    Quote: Svarog51
                    Ivanovo When landing on August 27, 1992, the Tu-134A crashed near the village of Lebyazhy meadow. A terrible sight.

                    I was at the database just at that time, I remember from the KP line they asked for the names of relatives ... my colleague then the whole family died
                  2. verner1967
                    verner1967 17 February 2018 09: 01
                    +2
                    Quote: Svarog51
                    August 27, 1992 Tu-134A

                    darn! By that time I had already transferred, but I was flying this route on vacation
                    1. Svarog51
                      Svarog51 17 February 2018 09: 24
                      +1
                      By that time I had already transferred, but I was flying this route on vacation

                      Fate has saved you, so people need you.
              4. Giants
                Giants 19 February 2018 20: 47
                +1
                Quote: Svarog51
                In 92 we had a plane crash

                Yes I remember. Swan Meadow, it seems, the village is called. At that time I was working in the Working Territory, our editor-in-chief Arkady Romanov immediately went to the scene of the tragedy.
                1. Svarog51
                  Svarog51 19 February 2018 20: 56
                  +1
                  Well then, I did not mature enough to meet the chief editor of the regional newspaper. My business is to provide local communication.
                  1. Giants
                    Giants 19 February 2018 21: 03
                    +1
                    So I, in my own way, also provided communication. He worked as a courier, at the time of the tragedy just my change was. All the materials from the editorial office to the printing house went through my hands. He lived on the Shubins, and you, if not a secret?
                    1. Svarog51
                      Svarog51 19 February 2018 21: 06
                      +1
                      I am on service from the Fire Department. Sosnevo, a district of Melange Plant. I still live here.
      3. Flyer_64
        Flyer_64 16 February 2018 17: 46
        +6
        Sometimes it seems that the work of such commissions is not to determine the real causes of the crash, but to delay the investigation so that as many people as possible forget about the disaster

        Do you have experience in investigating AP? If it were so simple, then in the case of the Tu-154 MO the switchman would be appointed within a week from the day of the disaster. There are investigations in which the reason has not yet been determined. If it weren’t for the journalists who created the hype, constantly throwing up version announcements. You would not notice the periods of the commission.
      4. DenZ
        DenZ 16 February 2018 19: 59
        +1
        Quote: Volodin
        We wait. Here, for example, on the Tu-154 (in Sochi), we are waiting for the second year. Sometimes it seems that the work of such commissions is not to determine the real causes of the crash, but to tighten the investigation so that as many people as possible forget about the disaster

        The Tu-154 is actually a board of the Ministry of Defense which may not report to anyone at all.
      5. co-creator
        co-creator 17 February 2018 01: 07
        +1
        Quote: Volodin
        We wait. Here, for example, on the Tu-154 (in Sochi), we are waiting for the second year.

        Why wait? It has long been announced.
      6. Olgovich
        Olgovich 17 February 2018 09: 04
        +1
        Quote: Volodin
        We wait. Here, for example, on the Tu-154 (in Sochi), we are waiting for the second year.

        There is a conclusion in Sochi. request
    2. Andrey K
      Andrey K 16 February 2018 17: 26
      +24
      Quote: 210ox
      ... Now you can all of these "experts" .. Who was there, died. You can safely appoint the switchman. You have to wait for the conclusions of the commission, and not who knows ...

      Dmitry, you are wrong.
      There are decrypted testimonies of speech and parametric recorders.
      I didn’t want to comment on anything related to this tragedy. In his work he is connected with this topic. Colleagues on Sunday left Saratov to "shake".
      How to say it right ...
      Pancake. About the dead, either good or nothing. This is just the case when it is better to remain silent.
      They stupidly killed passengers.
      I have nothing more to say. There is nothing to spread about either. Read the conclusions of the commission and understand everything hi
      1. Chichikov
        Chichikov 16 February 2018 17: 36
        +5
        Quote: Andrey K
        They stupidly killed passengers.

        But they themselves died! Are they suicides? The question is exactly how professional the crew actions were in the current situation and what needs to be radically changed in order to avoid such tragedies!
        1. dauria
          dauria 16 February 2018 17: 46
          +13
          If this is true, then there is already a wild shortage of personnel in the Civil Air Fleet.

          "The co-pilot Sergei Gambaryan did not have specialized education. He underwent retraining from the flight attendant to pilots. Gambaryan took courses at the largest private aviation school in Russia - the Chelyabinsk Civil Aviation School. The institution did not have a license from the Federal Air Transport Agency and the prosecutor's office demanded that the activities of the educational institution be illegal On January 12 of this year, the court granted the application of the supervisor. "
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 16 February 2018 20: 32
            +5
            Quote: dauria
            He was retrained from the flight attendant as a pilot.

            10 months and the flight attendant smoothly turns into a pilot, you can fly. Only in Russia is this possible. Frankly - surprised by this!
            1. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 21: 26
              +7
              Quote: Silvestr
              ..10 months and the flight attendant smoothly turns into a pilot, you can fly. Only in Russia is this possible. Frankly - surprised by this!

              You wonder in vain: in "civilized" Europe - for ~ 150k € and a year and a half, you can end up from scratch in the cockpit of a passenger jet with a flight time of ~ 200 hours recourse It’s more difficult in the states, where it’s necessary to roll one and a half hours
              You need to drive loving, from morning to evening, from morning to ...
            2. KVIRTU
              KVIRTU 16 February 2018 22: 35
              +4
              Why be surprised if: “the pilot's salary in China is on average four times higher than in the Russian Federation - from $ 17-25 thousand per month. Schedule - 80 flight hours per month (in the Russian Federation - 90), at least 96 days holidays (in Russia - 70 days). "
              This is a quote, and so, according to the pilots, the FAC we have 500, in China 1 million rubles. in month
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 23: 41
                +5
                To each his own: for these grandmothers in China they are bent, twice a year they will drive through the medical board as if into space almost and always the phrase strains: full package including ...
                Although someone likes it: -o
        2. Flyer_64
          Flyer_64 16 February 2018 17: 59
          +14
          Aircraft crashes are always resonant. And you take a week review of car accidents. Things are worse there. Judging by the IAC materials already posted on the website, the crew’s actions are not professional. The impression was that they did not know the manual for operating the aircraft, section special cases in flight. What needs to be changed in civil aviation? Go to the state training and retraining of pilots, now everything is commerce, who has money and flies, and not the fact that everyone is flying from God.
          1. Andrey K
            Andrey K 16 February 2018 18: 03
            +18
            Quote: Letun_64
            ... Go to the state training and retraining of pilots ...

            This is exactly what it should be.
            1. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 20: 44
              +5
              Quote: Andrey K
              Quote: Letun_64
              ... Go to the state training and retraining of pilots ...

              This is exactly what it should be.

              Quote: Letun_64
              everything is for commerce, who has money and flies, and not the fact that everyone is flying from God.

              The state can take it upon itself, but I don’t know how much it’s right to interfere in commercial activities. I don’t say anything .. But here’s an example of lufthansa / flyingdutch, I think it’s positive: strict training standards, tightly controlled by the aviation authorities. I would once again turn to the experience of the famous low costs, Ryanair / EasyJet: it is very ruthless - there are standards or you are not with us.
        3. win
          win 16 February 2018 18: 39
          +4
          There are several cases of suicide pilots of passenger airliners.
          German Andreas Lubitz - co-pilot of the Airbus A320, crashed in the Alps.
          The cause of the tragedy was the suicide of the second pilot, who intentionally directed the plane down without letting the commander of the ship into the cockpit after he briefly left.
          I still have several cases https://riafan.ru/229972-katastrofa-a320-vse-chto
          -izvestno-o-pilote-samoubiytse-andrease-lubittse
          In this case, the decoding of the speech “black box” showed that each pilot was “out of his mind” - there was no suicide.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 16 February 2018 17: 37
        +5
        Thank you hi I really haven’t yet seen the conclusions of the commission. But I see that many are running ahead of the horse. Regardless of who is guilty there ..
        Quote: Andrey K
        Quote: 210ox
        ... Now you can all of these "experts" .. Who was there, died. You can safely appoint the switchman. You have to wait for the conclusions of the commission, and not who knows ...

        Dmitry, you are wrong.
        There are decrypted testimonies of speech and parametric recorders.
        I didn’t want to comment on anything related to this tragedy. In his work he is connected with this topic. Colleagues on Sunday left Saratov to "shake".
        How to say it right ...
        Pancake. About the dead, either good or nothing. This is just the case when it is better to remain silent.
        They stupidly killed passengers.
        I have nothing more to say. There is nothing to spread about either. Read the conclusions of the commission and understand everything hi
        1. Andrey K
          Andrey K 16 February 2018 17: 43
          +8
          Quote: 210ox
          ... I really have not yet seen the conclusions of the commission. But I see that many are running ahead of the horse. Regardless of who is guilty there ...

          I agree with you entirely.
          There are a lot of people who want (so that their knots on their foreheads grow) to earn their image of expert on this tragedy (and not only on it).
          Let's wait for the conclusions of the commission.
      3. Kelwin
        Kelwin 16 February 2018 17: 41
        +3
        You are not right

        In advance, just in the order of dialogue, do you know why this often comes to mind? Because we know about the availability of instruments for recording all the parameters to restore the picture of the disaster. We also know that office personalization will calculate the bald line in 4k per day. And we’ve been hanging noodles for years. It is necessary either to explain normally, which objectively leads to delays, or to admit that these devices are not able to fulfill their task (this is about synchronization in Sochi). Otherwise, we will assume that there is silence, blurring and other bad things. respectfully hi
        1. Andrey K
          Andrey K 16 February 2018 18: 00
          +13
          Quote: KelWin
          ... In advance, just in the order of dialogue, do you know why this often comes to mind? Because we know about the availability of instruments for recording all the parameters to restore the picture of the disaster ...

          Do you think the members of the commission have no such thoughts?
          Personally, I am for the Homeland to know its "heroes" in person.
          Starting from that odd fellow in the Federal Air Transport Agency who “recommended” to cut off some hours at flying schools out of his own whim and ending with the odd fellow who pushed “leasing” deals with foreign technology.
          1. Kelwin
            Kelwin 19 February 2018 10: 26
            0
            Quote: Andrey K
            Do you think the commission members do not have such thoughts? Personally, I am for the Homeland to know its "heroes" in person.

            I believe you without question, but I don’t know about the commission, maybe some of its members have such thoughts, but how much they affect the official results ... And this is not even the point, this is an endless topic. But why do we need a registrar, if you still need to study the wreckage for years to find the cause, this is a mystery. And it’s so convenient to say “it’s technically impossible to fix all the parameters” and blame everything on the pilots, not to invest money in equipment, but do not forget to index the price of tickets stably, this is how the clock works.
      4. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 February 2018 18: 49
        +8
        Quote: Andrey K
        About the dead, either good or nothing.

        Or nothing but the truth.
        This is a complete expression. hi
      5. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 18: 57
        +5
        Quote: Andrey K
        About the dead, either good or nothing apart from the truth. This is just the case when it is better to remain silent. They stupidly killed passengers.

        You’re tough Andrey, and I’d like to ask where do you serve? I don’t jerk.
        I agree with you: those who studied, they understand what happened. The question is how to achieve positive investigation results: this should not be repeated. There is a positive example of CRM even at the same low costs: if you are in the topic, then you know that in the same Ryanair for SOP, CRM bends in a way that is not sweet.
        No words actually, I want to drink ..
        1. Andrey K
          Andrey K 16 February 2018 19: 10
          +10
          Quote: Pete Mitchell
          ... Tough you are Andrei, you just want to ask where you serve? I don’t jerk ...

          It's not tough - it's true. I can’t say more than what I have already said.
          I work in a government organization related to flight safety.
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 19: 39
            +6
            Quote: Andrey K
            ..not hard - it's true

            Good luck to you. I took part in investigations in different countries, I understand how much everything is not simple.
            I really would like to see an improvement in the situation as a result of the investigation
            1. Andrey K
              Andrey K 16 February 2018 20: 00
              +9
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              ...Good luck to you. I took part in investigations in different countries, I understand how much everything is not simple.
              I really would like to see an improvement in the situation as a result of the investigation ...

              Improvement of the situation can be achieved - tough, cruel control.
              Now the airline, airport, flight school can be checked (in one of the areas of activity or in the complex) - once every three years !!!
              In accordance with the plan previously approved by the Prosecutor General !!!
              Here you don’t want to drink, but stupidly get drunk in rubbish and forget.
              The sense of the work of the commission, if it is virtually impossible to double-check.
              Unscheduled inspections, and the tragedy with the An-148 falls precisely into this category - this is "tailing", a statement of state of emergency !!!
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 20: 14
                +7
                Quote: Andrey K
                Improvement of the situation can be achieved - tough, cruel control

                A good example is the European aviation authorities, the same Britons and Irish: they fight despite their merits. Result: look at the low cost Ryanair, EasyJet: the least damaged companies in Europe
      6. Piramidon
        Piramidon 16 February 2018 19: 07
        +3
        Quote: Andrey K
        There are decrypted testimonies of speech and parametric recorders.

        But how can this data be known to JOURNALISTS, even if the commission has not yet analyzed them? There is a certain gag here with a verified link to "unnamed sources who wish to remain anonymous"
        1. Andrey K
          Andrey K 16 February 2018 19: 17
          +7
          Quote: Piramidon
          ... But how can this data be known to JOURNALISTS, even if the commission has not yet analyzed them? ...

          But these unfortunate journalists do not know anything. A solid gag implicated in improvisation, plus the opinions of the "experts" of the various spills.
          They have a thirst for raising the rating, it borders on a foul level.
      7. New Year day
        New Year day 16 February 2018 20: 34
        +6
        Quote: Andrey K
        They stupidly killed passengers.

        Hero of Russia, test pilot Magomed Tolboev: “As a professional, it is very difficult for me to say this, but the reason for the death of the An-148 aircraft is a completely unprepared crew. Why did this happen? It is necessary to ask Neradko in the Federal Air Transport Agency; he is responsible for this. Pilots did everything wrong, some mistakes, the so-called human factor, they killed people! Now there are no pilots, only pokes, operators - they poke at the buttons, not understanding anything. Therefore, we have catastrophes and one worse than the other - Kazan, Yaroslavl and so on. ”
        1. IL-18
          IL-18 16 February 2018 21: 14
          +4
          Yeah. Not the pilots, now. Fly Managers
    3. jovanni
      jovanni 16 February 2018 17: 56
      +6
      Yes, expert discord to expert ... For a long time, well-deserved and experienced pilots sound the alarm about the level of training of pilots. Indeed, now they only learn to press their buttons. The automation will fail, and hi ... Here, let’s say the hero of Russia Magomed Tolboev says:
      “It is very difficult for me as a professional to say this, but the reason for the death of the An-148 aircraft is the completely unprepared crew. Why did this happen? It is necessary to ask Neradko in the Federal Air Transport Agency; he is responsible for this. “The pilots did everything wrong, some mistakes, the so-called human factor, they killed people!”
      Of course, we must wait for the conclusions of the commission. Only if you do not change the flawed system, these commissions will have more and more work. God forbid ...
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 16 February 2018 18: 05
        +9
        after the "dances" of the Ulyanovsk cadets, I don’t want to fly at all ...
        1. AntiFREEZ
          AntiFREEZ 16 February 2018 18: 48
          +4
          Quote: Jovanni
          Let’s say the hero of Russia Magomed Tolboev says:

          Here is a more complete statement:
          “It is very difficult for me as a professional to say this, but the reason for the death of the An-148 aircraft is the completely unprepared crew. Why did this happen? It is necessary to ask Neradko in the Federal Air Transport Agency; he is responsible for this. Pilots did everything wrong, some mistakes, the so-called human factor, they killed people! Now there are no pilots - only pokes, operators - poke at the buttons, not understanding anything. Therefore, catastrophes in our country are worse than the other - Kazan, Yaroslavl and so on, ”Magomed Tolboev told URA.RU.


          About the poke buttons in the buttons - he just noticed.
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 20: 09
            +7
            Quote: AntiFREEZ
            About the poke buttons in the buttons - he just noticed.

            It is difficult to disagree with this - such is modern civil aviation.
            Talboev, with great respect, he is a test, a fighter - he is just on a different level.
    4. starogil
      starogil 16 February 2018 18: 37
      0
      An expert, as he will comment on the first reports of the finding of fragments of a helicopter
      at the crash site of AN 148, Russian Post?
      Everything, as always will be expressed in conclusion: the reason is the human factor.
      1. AUL
        AUL 16 February 2018 19: 25
        +2
        So, like, the wreckage of the helicopter was not found? Found only bags of mail. And they could be on board the plane. Guys, don’t get in front of the engine with all kinds of accusations against anyone! Let the experts first give an opinion.
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 16 February 2018 21: 06
        +2
        Quote: starogil
        how he will comment on the first reports of the discovery of the wreckage of a helicopter
        at the crash site of AN 148,

        This, by the way, speaks of how journalists and all kinds of iksperds are susceptible to stupid conclusions. Some kid found mail bags near the crash site and a helicopter appeared in some inflamed brains.
  2. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 16 February 2018 17: 15
    +7
    We need to wait for the official conclusions of the commission, and not listen to the comments of experts! Every gopher is an agronomist! PR on someone else’s grief, shame. This also applies to the media.
    1. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov 16 February 2018 17: 29
      +4
      Quote: Hunter 2
      We need to wait for the official conclusions of the commission, and not listen to the comments of experts! Every gopher is an agronomist! PR on someone else’s grief, shame. This also applies to the media.

      Everything is true of course and yet the human factor is present here .. Problems in the system were detected before the pilots took off, but took a chance ..
      And remember the guys that same sensational video with future pilots of civil aviation .. That's where it all starts! In my opinion, these gay boys have not been expelled ...? And here it is also necessary to begin with all structures of the Russian state .. angry
  3. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 16 February 2018 17: 21
    +7
    however, the final unified decision by the crew was never made. This may well be evidenced by a conversation on elevated tones in the cockpit before the fateful moment.
    Did they arrange a meeting there? In critical situations, all decisions had to be made by the commander without unnecessary words and advice. In general, it’s worth waiting for the results of the investigation, otherwise there are many commentators and they have the same number of versions
    1. 210ox
      210ox 16 February 2018 17: 27
      +2
      In a similar situation (God forbid, of course), people act differently. Who is terrified, who is screaming, who is trying to do something ...
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      however, the final unified decision by the crew was never made. This may well be evidenced by a conversation on elevated tones in the cockpit before the fateful moment.
      Did they arrange a meeting there? In critical situations, all decisions had to be made by the commander without unnecessary words and advice. In general, it’s worth waiting for the results of the investigation, otherwise there are many commentators and they have the same number of versions
      1. Flyer_64
        Flyer_64 16 February 2018 18: 03
        +3
        To such situations it was not necessary to know the mat part.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 16 February 2018 17: 41
      +10
      Generally amazing.

      Skipping an item in the control card is basically the norm (of course it flies - but it does happen), especially on more advanced sides (for example, SSJ / 320 / last but one generation of Boeing) heating is turned on automatically, you can only manually turn it off.

      We noticed a discrepancy in indicators. They should have opened the manual and found the situation using the shortcut (and it’s described as typical 100%, because this is even included in the training scenario on simulators, I don’t know how on 148, but Busik / Boeing cannot be approved without testing this typical scenario) .

      Panicked. They started to discuss what to do. Gone down so as not to fall. As a result, they did not even out.

      Earlier - this situation practically did not arise and was considered insignificant. The manual required to verify the speed reading on 2 to any other systems and use those readings that match.

      After in the pitot tubes on a Boeing a wasp nest was made. And the Boeing crashed on almost 200 people due to the fact that they had a false Overspeed, they removed the engine mode and fell off. The situation became typical for all pilots to practice on the simulator. The failure checklists were also finalized - it is prescribed to check the GPS / Mayak speed / set-decrease speed at a fixed angle at a fixed time, be sure to report to the dispatcher, the fault was transferred to the serious category and it was recommended to land at the nearest safe airport.

      Therefore, it is surprising that they panicked on a typical situation. Especially on the Boeing then was Overspeed - which is theoretically possible. Immediately, they simply went to zero speed indicator - that is, even logically, it is enough NOT to remove the engine operating mode and keep the level. All 100% will not fall. Time to solve the problem until the fuel runs out.
      1. Alexander 3
        Alexander 3 16 February 2018 18: 15
        +4
        I know there were cases when they took off with plugs on the LDPE, not everyone took off. There are duplicate radar systems, radio altimeters and DISS. According to their testimonies, they planted a plane.
      2. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 20: 28
        +6
        Quote: donavi49
        should have opened the manual and found the situation using the shortcut (

        First memory item from QRH, then QRH itself. But first, the memory item: pitch-turnovers- stabilize the situation and think how to live on .. The guys were mistaken, St. Peter met them with a good drin. I want to drink ..., get drunk
      3. NN52
        NN52 16 February 2018 21: 24
        +9
        donavi49

        Are you a pilot
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 16 February 2018 19: 16
      +1
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      Did they arrange a meeting there?

      Yeah, party meeting, damn it! Partorg survived and reported everything
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 20: 30
        +5
        Quote: Piramidon
        Quote: KVU-NSVD
        Did they arrange a meeting there?

        Yeah, party meeting, damn it! Partorg survived and reported everything

        They stupidly had to follow the SOP, aka standard procedures, everyone would have survived .. By the way, conferring is also not superfluous
        1. NN52
          NN52 16 February 2018 21: 43
          +10
          Pete mitchell

          This is a local regional company, Saratov, the company Russia shoved their sides ...
          There really is all this line An problem ///
          Well, the pilots guys, with their cant, scored 148 to the end ...
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 16 February 2018 23: 45
            +3
            Gamardzhoba, this is probably the problem of small companies everywhere: everything is minimal and family-friendly .. It's sad
  4. Herculesic
    Herculesic 16 February 2018 17: 22
    +3
    I personally do not like at all that without completing the investigation, they give out information, and often in a negative light! The concept of objectivity has disappeared without a trace.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 16 February 2018 17: 32
      +5
      IAC lifts 148 flight ban. So they rejected technical problems.
    2. Reserve officer
      Reserve officer 16 February 2018 17: 34
      +4
      The official commission that is investigating has not yet made any conclusions. All that is published is media findings. But they are not concerned with objectivity, but with a rating. Which is above all. The main thing is to have time to shout before everyone else.
      1. Flyer_64
        Flyer_64 16 February 2018 18: 05
        +5
        Here is information from the IAC http://mak-iac.org/rassledovaniya/an-148-100b-ra-
        61704-11-02-2018 /
        1. Reserve officer
          Reserve officer 16 February 2018 18: 22
          +1
          I looked. Thank you Oleg. There is only one result so far - the commission continues to work, the materials are sent to the Investigative Committee.
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 16 February 2018 19: 18
      0
      Quote: Herkulesich
      I personally do not like at all that without completing the investigation, they give out information, and often in a negative light! The concept of objectivity has disappeared without a trace.

      And who issues the information? Are you sure that this info is not sucked out (as always) by zhurnalyugami from the 21st finger?
  5. foreman
    foreman 16 February 2018 17: 24
    +1
    Someone explain why the remains of passengers and fragments of the aircraft are so small and why the search area was expanded to 50 hectares ??? it feels like everyone is afraid of the word terrorist attack !? or ????
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 16 February 2018 17: 31
      +5
      The aircraft was well dispersed and hit. Therefore, small. High rate of decline + high speed = a lot of energy and, as a result, a large fragmentation and expansion of small fragments.
      1. foreman
        foreman 16 February 2018 17: 51
        +1
        from an impact on the ground the area of ​​expansion of 50 hectares ?!
        1. faridg7
          faridg7 16 February 2018 19: 20
          +4
          50 hectares of small area. Given the rate of fall and angle of incidence, plus add frozen soil, which did not allow debris to penetrate the surface, but practically retained its momentum. And besides, a fuel explosion
      2. Flyer_64
        Flyer_64 16 February 2018 18: 15
        +4
        The plane dived with an angle of 30 degrees. Remember physics, the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection. Explosion and inertia created the conditions for expansion. A very strong explosion is from the fuel supply and the particular location of the wing. Something like this
        1. foreman
          foreman 16 February 2018 18: 19
          +1
          here it is yours and so it bothers me
  6. APASUS
    APASUS 16 February 2018 17: 29
    +2
    I’m certainly not a pilot, but in my opinion does everyone have a horizon gauge on the panel or is it no longer standing on modern samples? Even the instructions say that the pilot should be guided by instruments rather than visually determine the position
  7. Hurricane70
    Hurricane70 16 February 2018 17: 35
    0
    Quote: 210ox
    Now you can all of these "experts" .. Who was there, they died. You can safely appoint a switchman. You have to wait for the conclusions of the commission, and not who knows.

    Do not exaggerate, recently you are pessimistic!
    It is written the same- "Honored Pilot of the USSR Oleg Smirnov," "commented for Russia Today."
    What's wrong? This is not some kind of reptile drunk for Echo, Rain, Fontanka ... well, or the Messenger of Mordovia !!!
    You will not please you ... Although, some at the Battle of psychics are looking for the truth ...
  8. Million
    Million 16 February 2018 17: 38
    +1
    And there wasn’t a mail helicopter?
  9. Berkut154
    Berkut154 16 February 2018 17: 46
    +14
    I have one question: well, the speed has fallen by two indicators, you have GPS and Glonass at work, the map goes on the indicator, the ground speed is there .. Ore in place, the horizon, the speed of both in place, the angle of attack is, the vertical speed is available Finally, the controller from the ground controls, what prevented the assessment of the situation? For some reason, Novoselov didn’t interfere with landing with one glass WITHOUT a single device in an abandoned lane, too, without everything !!! Religion didn’t allow you to move your eyes and not get hung up on Rita and two digits ?. Did they sit completely non-pilots? Magomed Tolboev-rights to all 100 %%%. The crew killed people!
    1. Kamchatsky
      Kamchatsky 16 February 2018 19: 08
      +8
      I completely agree with you. Failure of the air signal system (SHS) is not a cause for disaster. These procedures (how to recognize how to act, etc.) were hammered into the heads of accounts from the first year. GPS works, you know the ground speed, add a little mode and punch up to the sun. Along the way, check the heating of the RPM, etc. On the type of aircraft I am working on now, there is even a special table - what mode do you provide what speed in the GP. So that everything could end happily, but it was the crew’s understatedness, bewilderment, and how infa slipped, they swore among themselves - as a result they killed everyone.
  10. fizteh
    fizteh 16 February 2018 18: 27
    +4
    how Talboev is right! These were not pilots, but leverage operators !!! Apparently really normal flyers left horseradish yes manenko! And how to fly something ???
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 16 February 2018 19: 33
      0
      Quote: fizteh
      And how to fly something ???

      So ride a train.
      Tolboev is wrong, you can’t talk like he said about the An-148 crew
      1. Berkut154
        Berkut154 16 February 2018 23: 46
        +2
        And how can you if they killed themselves and passengers?
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 17 February 2018 18: 05
          0
          As Tolboev said - one can only say under senile senility, he is forgiven, God will forgive him (maybe), he needs to be in a breeze less.
  11. Monarchist
    Monarchist 16 February 2018 18: 35
    +2
    If you look from my sofa, the following picture emerges: someone and the mechanics were too lazy to check the operation of automation or, in general, a mechanic who doesn’t "drag" the ear and the wrong way.
    The old drivers told me a real case: a party of brand new “Colchis” came to the base: the so-called “mountain tractor” (old drivers know what it is). The peasants already knew the “miracles of the Kutaisi automobile industry” and decided to check them out beforehand, and the “five” and the note: “do it yourself: rush to football” do not run in one brake at all. Where is the guarantee that the mechanic was in no hurry for a football or a date and I didn’t fully check the automation, but it deteriorates at the most inopportune moment .. And the pilots are inexperienced and confused
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 16 February 2018 20: 08
      +3
      Hands tear off these sellers of watermelons and grapes.
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 16 February 2018 21: 19
      +2
      Quote: Monarchist
      someone and mechanics too lazy to check the operation of automation

      Well, of course. Another connoisseur. Just to throw your 5 cents. Specify which automation they did not check? Icing occurs in flight. On earth, when checking static and total pressure systems, everything was normal. This check is even recorded on the flight recorders.
  12. Monarchist
    Monarchist 16 February 2018 18: 40
    +5
    Quote: Berkut154
    I have one question: well, the speed has fallen by two indicators, you have GPS and Glonass at work, the map goes on the indicator, the ground speed is there .. Ore in place, the horizon, the speed of both in place, the angle of attack is, the vertical speed is available Finally, the controller from the ground controls, what prevented the assessment of the situation? For some reason, Novoselov didn’t interfere with landing with one glass WITHOUT a single device in an abandoned lane, too, without everything !!! Religion didn’t allow you to move your eyes and not get hung up on Rita and two digits ?. Did they sit completely non-pilots? Magomed Tolboev-rights to all 100 %%%. The crew killed people!

    Tolboev, a man who knows and simply will not wag his tongue
    1. Berkut154
      Berkut154 16 February 2018 18: 46
      +2
      Apparently he had much earlier infa than in the media ...
      1. Flyer_64
        Flyer_64 16 February 2018 19: 26
        0
        Apparently he has friends in the IAC.
    2. NN52
      NN52 16 February 2018 22: 17
      +11
      Monarchist

      About this knowledgeable .... in the letter T ..
      He acted as a defender in Kazakhstan at the trial of the Su 27 pilot. As a result, the pilot was given 4 years in prison
      And your knowledgeable really awesome language everywhere ...
  13. Oznob
    Oznob 16 February 2018 19: 00
    +1
    The ship has one captain ...
  14. earloop
    earloop 16 February 2018 19: 11
    +1
    "that the An-148 pilots completely relied on automation, which at a certain point in time began to fail, but the crew did not make a final unified decision"
    It always happens when there is no agreement in the comrades.
    1. Berkut154
      Berkut154 16 February 2018 19: 19
      +2
      Unfortunately, this was already in Kazan, Perm, Adler ......
  15. kan123
    kan123 16 February 2018 19: 33
    0
    If one and the same plane dies from the same, then the matter is not in the hassle of pilots, and not in pilots at all.
    1. Berkut154
      Berkut154 16 February 2018 19: 39
      +5
      That's just not the same! Based on the latest disasters from 00 years, a systemic error in preparation is clearly visible.
      1. kan123
        kan123 16 February 2018 19: 43
        0
        The catastrophes are all different, but from the same thing, on the same plane, what does the preparation have to do with it? Such coincidences are, first of all, studied, following elementary logic.
        1. Berkut154
          Berkut154 16 February 2018 19: 50
          +3
          Was the plane technically sound?
  16. Xscorpion
    Xscorpion 16 February 2018 19: 47
    +1
    Quote: Pete Mitchell
    Quote: Piramidon
    .. and the commission is not obliged to report to social networks.

    Let's disagree with you: social networks are also citizens of the country. If you hide the results only among “who should”, then there will be no changes, there is something to change. And among those “who should” there are many who want to blur the results - they don’t want to answer.
    The real reasons lie in the CRM plane, not least: statistics


    Social networks are more than half fake accounts for certain purposes, someone runs a business, someone deals with advertising, someone fucks up, someone trolls with nothing to do, and someone expresses himself with them, because in real life it doesn’t work out. to report this? Maybe on every fence write about it? There, too, the "people" often leave comments.
    1. acetophenon
      acetophenon 16 February 2018 21: 01
      +1
      Yes, imagine
      before all this
      - to report. How was it there? AND! We have no other "people" in Russia for you. (from)
  17. dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 16 February 2018 21: 50
    +2
    Quote: Alexander 3
    I know there were cases when they took off with plugs on the LDPE, not everyone took off. There are duplicate radar systems, radio altimeters and DISS. According to their testimonies, they planted a plane.

    I beg you: if in a large number of cases the crew does not respond to the dial of the radio altimeter even on the 30 m and continues to stubbornly go down the glide path to gain a mouthful of earth, then what can we talk about!
    As an example of idiocy, I always recall the Armenian IL-18 in Leningrad in the 70 of the year: the haste at the departure of December 31 led to take-off with the FIXED STEERING WHEELS and ELONES, WITHOUT MECHANIZATION, WITHOUT HEATING PPS! Are you talking about Doppler, RTS ...
    1. shuravi
      shuravi 16 February 2018 22: 00
      +5
      Quote: dmmyak40

      I beg you: if in a large number of cases the crew does not respond to the dial of the radio altimeter even on the 30 m and continues to stubbornly go down the glide path to gain a mouthful of earth, then what can we talk about!
      As an example of idiocy, I always recall the Armenian IL-18 in Leningrad in the 70 of the year: the haste at the departure of December 31 led to take-off with the FIXED STEERING WHEELS and ELONES, WITHOUT MECHANIZATION, WITHOUT HEATING PPS! Are you talking about Doppler, RTS ...



      Man, the fact that the crews happen to be squinted, no one denies. But the fact that the far from the true causes of the disasters is voiced has not gone away.
      It is enough to recall that nonsense that was rubbed about the Yak-42 disaster in Yaroslavl.

      Well, about the crews, you don’t find that many shoals from the fact that they went for the Western “fashion” and excluded BI from the crews. But the Soviet school believed that the crew of the three was optimal.
      1. Berkut154
        Berkut154 16 February 2018 23: 48
        +3
        What rubbish rubbed? The fact that a person being in the cabin 42 took off as 40 meters? So this is true.
  18. nemec55
    nemec55 16 February 2018 21: 55
    +1
    Gentlemen, I think I know how to solve the problem.
    You need to stupidly raise your asses not only to yourself but to all your friends and go to the polls.
    Well, I’m not tired of all of you rubbing about the same thing from year to year? And maybe it's still there.
    In all areas of the mess, mess everywhere obsalyutno
    every year we suck it in, we meditate and nothing is mined, only age changes.
    1. Guillon
      Guillon 17 February 2018 08: 52
      0
      Talking at the polls ?! And you will talk with older people for life, for politics, and what gave them these choices! Poor people are still waiting for a better life ... Eh ... hi
  19. dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 16 February 2018 21: 59
    +5
    Quote: Volodin
    Quote: 210ox
    We must wait for the findings of the commission


    We wait. Here, for example, on the Tu-154 (in Sochi) we are waiting for the second year. Sometimes it seems that the work of such commissions is not to determine the real causes of the crash, but to delay the investigation so that as many people as possible forget about the catastrophe.

    In short:
    - unstable emotional state of the FAC: at a speed of 70 km / h, he began nervously asking the crew for a take-off course, nervous negotiations on the take-off;
    - flap cleaning at an altitude of 157 m instead of the agreed 500, which led to an aircraft drawdown, and coupled with the deviation of the FAC of the helm from itself, led the aircraft to a pitch of 1,5 degrees, the vertical speed of decrease is 6-8 m / s.
    - the SSAS worked (dangerous land), the PIC turned the helm column from the right to the left, gave the leg to the left. A plane with a left roll was down. After that, the commander completely lost the spatial orientation and his actions on the governing bodies became inadequate for the situation.
    After the alarm was triggered, the bank was big, the PIC energetically turned the helm to the right to the maximum, but due to lack of time and altitude, this did not help ...
    That's all. No MANPADS, no explosion ...
  20. dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 16 February 2018 22: 18
    +4
    Quote: shuravi
    Quote: dmmyak40

    I beg you: if in a large number of cases the crew does not respond to the dial of the radio altimeter even on the 30 m and continues to stubbornly go down the glide path to gain a mouthful of earth, then what can we talk about!
    As an example of idiocy, I always recall the Armenian IL-18 in Leningrad in the 70 of the year: the haste at the departure of December 31 led to take-off with the FIXED STEERING WHEELS and ELONES, WITHOUT MECHANIZATION, WITHOUT HEATING PPS! Are you talking about Doppler, RTS ...



    Man, the fact that the crews happen to be squinted, no one denies. But the fact that the far from the true causes of the disasters is voiced has not gone away.
    It is enough to recall that nonsense that was rubbed about the Yak-42 disaster in Yaroslavl.

    Well, about the crews, you don’t find that many shoals from the fact that they went for the Western “fashion” and excluded BI from the crews. But the Soviet school believed that the crew of the three was optimal.

    You know, in principle, I agree: we also didn’t have a Yak-40 at the beginning of the flight, and then we realized that the pilots needed to be unloaded from a number of operations. It was an interesting experiment: experienced flight mechanics were retrained as co-pilots: the result is simply terrifying, because the lack of aerobatic skills driven into the school made such co-pilots the cause of the hassle of the PIC and the flight engineer.
    As for the jambs, in recent months I have been carefully studying the materials of disasters and incidents in the USSR Civil Air Fleet. I really want to get acquainted with similar materials on the largest Western airlines, but I can draw a preliminary conclusion: our pilots always coped better with emergency situations, and in the decaying West they coped better with routine operations. Those. due to the best automation, aircraft operators practically unmistakably approach and enter according to the scheme, and there, from 60 meters on their hands, only clinical talents do not fall into the butt.
    And how many boards in Aeroflot were beaten during the reduction and violation of the approach and landing patterns, and there were many deliberate violations! And how many guys the dispatchers killed ... Sometimes it was just too lazy to look at the locator in the presence of restrictive bearings in the mountains or use a direction finder.
    1. Berkut154
      Berkut154 16 February 2018 23: 27
      +4
      It's just that you are an instructor 30 years old ... an experienced flight attendant is sent to you for 45 years ... he has just not licked his materiel and periodically begins to teach life .... is this how to teach him and hammered him into a Bosko?
    2. NN52
      NN52 17 February 2018 11: 52
      +10
      dmmyak40
      And how many guys the dispatchers killed ... Sometimes it was just too lazy to look at the locator in the presence of restrictive bearings in the mountains or use a direction finder. [/ Quote] [/ i]


      Not in vain, an expression of instruction was born a very long time ago: Pilot, remember, everyone on earth wants to kill you, rely only on yourself in the air ////
  21. exo
    exo 16 February 2018 22: 26
    +4
    In fact, the situation is strange. On the indicator, THREE messages about the lack of heating of the LDPE should light up. Each, from its independent channel. And at the same time, the question arises about differences in speed readings among pilots. Solid questions.
    By the way, there is no way to turn off the LDPE heating on Airbuses. The switch has two positions: ON and AUTO.
    In one case, heating works on the ground, and secondly: only after separation from the strip. Protection from the human factor.
    And on the AN-148, there is also a limited time for the heating of pressure receivers.
    1. Berkut154
      Berkut154 16 February 2018 22: 44
      +3
      Why is she weird? There everything burned farther nowhere in both 2p and KVS. The question is that even if this happened the crew could not adequately assess the situation!
      1. dmmyak40
        dmmyak40 16 February 2018 23: 00
        +4
        It seems to me that it is worth talking here not so much about the adequacy of the assessment of the situation, but about the misunderstanding of certain input data, which led to the current situation.
        1. Berkut154
          Berkut154 16 February 2018 23: 08
          +2
          Sorry, but a misunderstanding of the input is an adequate assessment of the situation, when the count goes on for seconds?
          1. dmmyak40
            dmmyak40 17 February 2018 02: 17
            +6
            In aviation, the score always goes by seconds, and the ADEQUATE rating plays a crucial role, for example. I am taking off on the Yak-40 with the maximum take-off weight, the mode is take-off, at a height of 50 m after the landing gear and headlights are cleared, the “Right engine fire” and “Left engine fire” displays are activated. RLE instructs first to turn off the autopilot and the throttle of the problem engine to the stop position. What an executive and clearly knowledgeable regulatory documentation will do. Those. adequate to what he was taught.
            BUT knocking out 2 engines, I will not stretch the rise and fall. Therefore, I will not immediately cut down the engines on which the alarm went off, but I will reduce the mode to the nominal and I will look to see if there is a fire there: is there an overshoot of the gas temperature behind the turbine, the oil temperature, its pressure. And only then will I make a decision.
            And the PIC Il-62, which fell near Mendeleev in the 80s, took and knocked out 2 engines on one side when the FIRE was fired with the maximum take-off weight, although he knew that with 2 engines he could not gain altitude for a turn and emergency landing. But knocked them out. And crashed with a full passenger compartment.
            But there was no fire, there was a breakthrough of hot air on the sensor, the dvigly were in perfect order.
  22. Sewer krainiy
    Sewer krainiy 17 February 2018 01: 18
    +4
    Quote: Volodin
    Quote: Piramidon
    but the commission is not obliged to report to social networks.

    And besides social networks there are official media. Or is it the presence of official media only for show? Then, for some reason, everyone resents where the rumors and speculations come from about the "terrorist attack aboard Tu," or about the "thousands of dead Wagner fighters" in Syria. These strange attempts of officials to ignore the presence of official media and the real interest of citizens in the life of the country and use "our great friends" for riveting fakes.


    Official media .... official .. Relatives of the deceased need to bring them multimillion-dollar claims in foreign currency. As possible in the so-called The media give information that they have already collected 1400 fragments of the bodies of the dead ... the Russian media gave, Euronews, the Belarusian ONT. According to Euronews, they added - already 1500. All of them have gone. What (censorship), they can no longer understand what relatives are reading and through tears they divide 71 by 1400. To drive correspondents and editors of the media to the neck, to the editorial offices - huge fines in favor of relatives. Bastards ... after the "Lame Horse" they were warned ... they are all for their own, no shame, no conscience ... (censorship). These ... official media ... these ... interested citizens ... I apologize, it's boiling.
    1. Sewer krainiy
      Sewer krainiy 17 February 2018 01: 33
      +1
      Yes, information slipped that the Ministry of Emergencies employees physically offended a Izvestia correspondent who was trying to break into the crash site. Few gave ....
    2. foreman
      foreman 17 February 2018 07: 20
      +1
      Yes, boil well be healthy!
  23. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 17 February 2018 13: 48
    0
    Flyers by chance not from the Ulyanovsk school?
    1. keeper03
      keeper03 17 February 2018 23: 59
      0
      Incidentally no:

      Taken from the site:
      https://aviaforum.ru/threads/katastrofa-an-148-sa
      ratovskix-avialinij-informacija. 45162 / page-5
  24. keeper03
    keeper03 17 February 2018 23: 58
    +2
    Here is the opinion of the real pilot, Magomed Tolboev, with whom I completely agree:
    1. 16112014nk
      16112014nk 18 February 2018 11: 12
      +1
      It's just some kind of n .... c! The impossible, unfortunately, has become possible.
      Traitors around us at all levels of power.
      Only the new 37 year will fix everything!
      1. dmmyak40
        dmmyak40 18 February 2018 11: 54
        +2
        To be honest, I am very cautious about military pilots (this does not apply to testers and BTAs), since they have a completely different mentality related to the specifics of flight work. There was a commander in one of the ground services in our squadron decommissioned from the MiG-31 from somewhere in the north (after 2 bailouts were written off). Since he would drink a medical alcohol, he began to crucify about what good fighters they were, and we, civilians, catch flies with our nostrils; here they are, on guard of the Motherland, and we ... And another in a similar spirit. Until the moment when we got tired of the hell with it, and they explained to him intelligibly on the fingers that we should not say that. That he, on his MiG-31, can almost always pull the handle and eject, and we have fifty souls behind us, and the crew with them will either sit down or coffin and we have no other alternative.
        1. shuravi
          shuravi 18 February 2018 17: 34
          +2
          Quote: dmmyak40
          To be honest, I am very cautious about military pilots (this does not apply to testers and BTAs), since they have a completely different mentality related to the specifics of flight work. There was a commander in one of the ground services in our squadron decommissioned from the MiG-31 from somewhere in the north (after 2 bailouts were written off). Since he would drink a medical alcohol, he began to crucify about what good fighters they were, and we, civilians, catch flies with our nostrils; here they are, on guard of the Motherland, and we ... And another in a similar spirit. Until the moment when we got tired of the hell with it, and they explained to him intelligibly on the fingers that we should not say that. That he, on his MiG-31, can almost always pull the handle and eject, and we have fifty souls behind us, and the crew with them will either sit down or coffin and we have no other alternative.


          This is completely different. There is the so-called problem of single-seat aircraft pilots. When there is no skill to work in the crew and the habit of pulling everything yourself. This is even in the army, when the written off (restriction) "whistles" are transferred to other machines.
          At the same time, there is another point. The army has a different approach to raid. So used to squeezing the maximum benefit. For example, in one hour they can do 5 takeoff landings.
          In addition, the military is more familiar with critical regimes.
          Well, judging everyone by the flies of one retired pilot is stupid.
          1. dmmyak40
            dmmyak40 18 February 2018 21: 59
            0
            There were problems during the transition from Yak-12 to An-2 and IL-12, IL-14.
  25. dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 18 February 2018 12: 04
    0
    [quote = NN52] dmmyak40
    And how many guys the dispatchers killed ... Sometimes it was just too lazy to look at the locator in the presence of restrictive bearings in the mountains or use a direction finder. [/ Quote] [/ i]


    Not in vain, an expression of instruction was born a very long time ago: Pilot, remember, everyone on earth wants to kill you, rely only on yourself in the air //// [/ quote]
    I agree to all 100%. Only now the pilots have GPS and they can determine their position, but what we had: the course system of the MMC and the ARC. And if the drive is still poorly audible due to interference or is not heard at all ...
  26. dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 18 February 2018 17: 35
    0
    Quote: NN52
    Not in vain, an expression of instruction was born a very long time ago: Pilot, remember, everyone on earth wants to kill you, rely only on yourself in the air ////

    Or: "Better to lose a wife than speed in the fourth U-turn."
  27. Dedall
    Dedall 18 February 2018 18: 51
    +2
    No one will tell you what the range of visibility and the type of weather was. I want to simulate a flight on the X-Plane, where there are a couple of suitable aircraft. But for some reason he does not download data from the weather site. The links are probably out of date.