Military Review

The involvement of Italian saboteurs to the death of the battleship "Novorossiysk" is refuted

69
Italian saboteurs are not related to the death of the Soviet battleship "Novorossiysk" in 1955, leads RIA News Statement by the Chief Editor of the Bulletin of the Archive of the President of Russia, Sergei Kudryashov.




The documents of the presidential archive, published in the special issue, allow “to deal with many vulgar versions that are walking in the yellow press and the Internet, including the Italian version,
Kudryashov said, speaking in the Russian Historical Society.

According to this version, the battleship was blown up by Italian underwater saboteurs. Now "you can" say hello to the Italian submariners ", since Novorossiysk died due to lack of attention and lack of organization of the crew, he explained.

A rusty German mine exploded during the war. The crew did not notice her, and after the explosion was confused,
he noted, adding that one of the reasons for the death of the battleship was the crew’s confidence that the ship would not sink.

The agency recalls that the ship of the Soviet Black Sea fleet "Novorossiysk" until 1948 was part of the Italian Navy under the name "Giulio Cesare."

“The ship sank on the Sevastopol raid on October 29 1955, more than 800 people were killed. In Italy, they claimed that the Italian saboteurs sank the battleship - the former head of the 10 commando flotilla of assault vehicles, Prince Valerio Borghese, allegedly vowed revenge when the ship was handed over to the USSR, ”the material says.

The investigation of the incident involved a government commission. According to her report, it is most likely that a German mine exploded during the Great Patriotic War exploded under the battleship.
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org
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  1. Lexus
    Lexus 16 February 2018 13: 25
    +8
    In Italy, Berlusconi is very likely to return to power - they decided to make a "barefoot fit", probably.
    1. Spartanez300
      Spartanez300 16 February 2018 13: 30
      +20
      How many more vulgar versions walk on various topics in the press, and again about this version we can say that this is nonsense. A whole battleship sank from a rusty mine and more than 800 people died, how can you get so confused request
      1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
        Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 16 February 2018 13: 34
        +8
        The Black Sea Fleet is constantly losing ships in troubled circumstances. Two battleships, "Empress Maria" and "Novorossiysk" drowned directly in Sevastopol. Fire in Sevastopol on the BPC "Kerch", after which the ship can only be disposed of.
        1. Shurik70
          Shurik70 16 February 2018 13: 35
          +17
          most likely a German mine exploded under a battleship

          From the operational report on the state of the Novorossiysk LC at 04.00:31.10.55 p.m. on XNUMX:
          “In the bow of the bottom in the region of 31--55 frames of a hole 21,6 m long, 5,5 meters wide, about 100 m2 in area (in fact, by later surveys, the area of ​​the hole will be set to 150-175 m2, and accepted in the documents - - 150 m - B. K) .Captures four compartments, including the 1st tower area. Burrs holes in the ship. The hole is located to the right of the keel. In the area of ​​43-45 frames, the keel is broken and the hole passes to the left of the keel 4 meters long , 1 meter wide.In the area of ​​damaged compartments in the bottom there are cracks and dents. In the area of ​​31-37 deck frames and the tank is lowered and torn out by burrs". see B.A. Karzhavin. The mystery of the death of the Novorossiysk battleship. Based on this discrepancy between the holes in the bottom and on the deck, some experts conclude that there is a second charge inside the battleship that detonated during the explosion of the first charge under the bottom in the region of 43-45 frames

          So saboteurs are most likely
          1. bouncyhunter
            bouncyhunter 16 February 2018 13: 46
            +11
            Quote: Shurik70
            So saboteurs are most likely

            I support this opinion. And let the liberal toleras accept the version about the mine "on faith."
            1. Monos
              Monos 16 February 2018 13: 57
              +15
              Pasha, welcome! hi drinks
              most likely a German mine exploded under a battleship

              Battleship flood due to the explosion of ONE "rusty" mine and so quickly that 800 people died? They whom for idiots consider themselves or us?
              1. Per se.
                Per se. 16 February 2018 14: 03
                +16
                Quote: Monos
                Do they consider themselves idiots, themselves or us?
                Here I will repeat what has already been said. If we talk about fantastic hypotheses, then a completely fantastic hypothesis, this is the official version, an explosion on the old German ground mine. No less fantastic, absurd "revenge" of Italian combat swimmers, who, if they were to hate anyone, were the British who humiliated Italy and not the Russians. The battleship stood for several years in Malta, after the Italians surrendered the fleet, the British studied it quite well, and the Italians themselves knew it all the more well. When attacking the British battleships in Alexandria, explosives were laid under the powder magazine, and then, such an effect from external mines was not observed. "Novorossiysk" an explosion struck from the bottom, passing all the armor decks, before throwing the flame into the sky, this is not possible either with an external fastening to the bottom of the mine, or, especially, with an explosion of the bottom mine. In addition, during the examination of the bottom, two craters were discovered, one more, the other smaller, but even the largest crater could not have been an explosion at the bottom, due to the negligible depth of penetration, not corresponding to the power of the explosion. Later analyzes showed that such craters could remain only from explosions made under the ship’s hull, that is, much higher from the bottom. Finally, the main explosion itself occurred not in the water, but in the air, both in physics of the nature of the explosion and in the testimony of eyewitnesses who noted the strong smell of explosives in the explosion. The explosion on the battleship was out of the powder magazine, that is, even the ammunition was not detonated here. More Italian workers were warned about the possible mining of ours at the time of the transfer ... And the time was such that our allies in the anti-Hitler coalition were already on the other side of the barricade. Churchill’s speech in Fulton was already heard, and the Americans had plans for the atomic bombings of Soviet cities, the Cold War was gaining momentum and could well become hot. By the way, according to some sources, there were rumors that the “Novorossiysk”, which was preparing to leave the squadron in the Mediterranean, was loaded with “special charges”, shells of the main caliber with a nuclear charge. If there was a detonation of the powder cellars, a grandiose catastrophe could have happened in the bay of Sevastopol, be it really. As a result of the death of the flagship, our Black Sea Fleet remained in the base, Admiral Kuznetsov lost his post, scrapped the unfinished battlecruisers, as the surface fleet itself was trimmed by Nikita Khrushchev. It is possible that Crab, a famous British saboteur, was a participant in the installation of the main charge min-detonators under Novorossiysk, but this “gentleman” paid in Portsmouth Bay, under “Ordzhonikidze”, not all the Maslenitsa cat died down ... Most of the evidence and evidence was destroyed, since Khrushchev had been soaping to mend relations with the West, and high-ranking heads could still fly in the Soviet military leadership. Undermining the Khrushchev British after his visit to the cruiser, it would be a pity only a cruiser with a crew and scientists, important for the country, and not Nikita.
                1. Per se.
                  Per se. 16 February 2018 14: 06
                  +15
                  Also, to the "revenge of the Italians." Penetrating into the main base of the Black Sea Fleet and undermining the flagship is not going to dive, but an operation at the level of NATO special forces, which only the United Kingdom could do then without the US sanction, and in no way Italy, and its brave veterans. But let it be so, why then the highly experienced Italians, especially those who knew the scheme of their former battleship well, did not place explosives in the most vulnerable places, as they did when attacking British battleships during World War II in Alexandria? All that the Italians were able to do then, they did, and they did not put the frailty under the gunpowder cellars, and put the battleships out of action for a long time. But, nothing like an explosion on the battleship Novorossiysk did not happen then in Alexandria. On our own ship, the explosion did not occur under the towers of the main caliber, and not even under the center of the ship, where it would be more logical to mount the charges, but in that part of the “patch nose” that was as close as possible to the artillery grabs. Two outdoor explosions were to detonate the main charge, which was already inside the battleship. The edges bent inside here are explained by the fact that, firstly, the internal explosion had the effect of a directional explosion, from bottom to top, and did not have a special effect on the character of the chipping from the detonator mine, and, secondly, water under enormous pressure bent into the hole even stronger inside. It was noted that the explosion was monstrous, no underwater saboteurs could have time to drag so much explosives. If we recall the subversion of the Japanese heavy cruiser by the Americans at the end of the war, they exploded explosives under the bottom of the Takao, but there were no such monstrous destructions as well, as there was no external explosion, but the Novorossiysk. Why did the mean "gentlemen" do it, the whole thing is in the Suez Canal, the Soviet strengthening of positions on the Mediterranean Sea, the rapprochement and support of the USSR to the course of Egypt’s independence from Britain. Naturally, I do not impose my point of view, and this and not only my opinion, there is a lot of evidence and conclusions that tend to the fact that the battleship Novorossiysk was undermined by the British, and the explosives were hidden in the labyrinths of the compartments of the USSR for reparations.
                  1. Captain Pushkin
                    Captain Pushkin 16 February 2018 17: 13
                    +3
                    Quote: Per se.
                    there is a lot of evidence and conclusions, inclined to the fact that the battleship Novorossiysk was blown up by the British, and the explosives were hidden in the labyrinths of the compartments even before the transfer of the USSR ship for reparations.

                    This version does not contradict the participation in the sabotage of Italian combat swimmers.
                    The explosives inside the battleship could have been planted by the British, but also by Italians.
                    A group of Italian combat swimmers received awards exactly after the sinking of Novorossiysk, there were no other reasons for awarding at that time. Italians could use within the framework of NATO, until 1956, Americans, British and Germans sent armed gangs of saboteurs to the USSR. Sabotage in Sevastopol fits perfectly into this tactic.

                    Mina also seems unlikely because the explosion occurred under a battleship that did not have a course. Let the supporters of the mine version report the type of bottom mine detonator that can fire on a moored ship.
                    1. Per se.
                      Per se. 16 February 2018 17: 31
                      +3
                      Quote: Captain Pushkin
                      This version does not contradict the participation in the sabotage of Italian combat swimmers.
                      I agree, but here we must immediately emphasize that they should have been brought in as executors or accomplices, and not as "old brigands", with a ridiculous legend of revenge that covered customers. Performers or sabotage assistants could have been located in the Crimea, where the Germans left an agent network inherited by the Anglo-Saxons. In the diagram, the nose of the battleship, where you can see the old, "dreadnought" nose, and a new tip welded on top of it, after the pre-war modernization. In the voids between these nasal extremities and was hidden explosives, with which the battleship was transferred to the USSR in the year 1949. The “gift” was waiting for its time, which came in the fall of 1955 of the year ... If they found the explosive, everything would have been blamed on the Italian avengers-fanatics, the former owners of the battleship. Also, the explosion during the transition in the USSR, if it was carried out, could be blamed on both the Italian fascists themselves and the collision with an old mine drifting into the sea.
                      1. Captain Pushkin
                        Captain Pushkin 16 February 2018 19: 32
                        0
                        Quote: Per se.
                        Per se. Today, 17:31 ↑
                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        This version does not contradict the participation in the sabotage of Italian combat swimmers.
                        I agree, but here we must immediately emphasize that they should have been brought in as performers or accomplices, and not as "old robbers," with an absurd legend of revenge that covered customers

                        I agree. It is clear that the Italians are not initiators. But when they were involved in the operation, the theme of revenge was to be an additional argument and an incentive why italians were entrusted with such a “great honor”. A kind of cherry on the cake. Well, the motive of the "extreme", which could be pointed with your finger if something went wrong, was also present. Like, a kind of unrepentant Nazi avengers, for whom no one in NATO is at all responsible.
              2. bouncyhunter
                bouncyhunter 16 February 2018 14: 04
                +3
                Victor, salute! hi drinks So I'm talking about the same thing! Tales of the Vienna Woods to please Italy? What the hell? am
              3. Andy
                Andy 16 February 2018 14: 18
                +2
                he didn’t sink as fast as I know. it’s just a command (not a ship’s commander) assuming that the depth is less than the width of the hull and he’ll just sit on the ground maximum. not allowed to leave the ship. and the soil was silty ... and the ship began to fall into it, which led to the death of people.
              4. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 17 February 2018 19: 55
                +1
                Quote: Monos

                Battleship flood due to the explosion of ONE "rusty" mine and so quickly that 800 people died? They whom for idiots consider themselves or us?


                = A rusty German mine exploded during the war. The crew didn’t notice her, and after the explosion she was confused, =
                Who wrote this phrase? Most likely a graduate of the Culinary College.
                It is with this phrase that the involvement of saboteurs is refuted ..... It is a pity I do not have the opportunity (ability) to paste the appropriate emoticon.
                And what about the article as a whole after this phrase?
          2. LSA57
            LSA57 16 February 2018 13: 59
            +3
            Quote: Shurik70
            So saboteurs are most likely

            I remember when I was still studying at the State Technical University, this was an article on this topic in the journal "Youth Technique" in the early 70s. many interesting things have been written. for example, that this night for some reason the chain at the entrance to the bay was not lifted. those. a mini submarine with saboteurs could well go into the bay. was there about what you wrote in your post. and I also remember that it was written there that one Italian showed our diplomat, I don’t remember where it was, at Borghez and said, “So he blew up your Novorossiysk” “then it seems like Khrushchev was informed about this conversation, but what happened next unknown to the author
          3. kpd
            kpd 16 February 2018 15: 21
            +2
            A hole of 150 square meters in a metal with a thickness of 15 ... 16 mm, can you tell me how much explosives are needed for such a hole?
            This is precisely the bottom mine with its tonne of TNT equivalent and taking into account the shallow depths it is just more like the truth.
          4. seos
            seos 16 February 2018 20: 15
            0
            The Italian saboteur admitted .... and there is recognition on the Internet.
        2. seti
          seti 16 February 2018 13: 36
          +2
          Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
          The Black Sea Fleet is constantly losing ships in troubled circumstances. .

          Give examples ... the language is boneless.
        3. svp67
          svp67 16 February 2018 13: 58
          +6
          Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
          Fire in Sevastopol on the BPC "Kerch", after which the ship can only be disposed of.

          And what else didn’t they remember?
          Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
          The Black Sea Fleet is constantly losing ships in troubled circumstances.

          Unfortunately, this is common to ALL fleets.
      2. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 16 February 2018 13: 35
        +4
        The main thing is that we will never know the truth! The fact is that the Italian fighting swimmers - at that time, were the best in the world. And the battleship - they considered theirs!
        1. igorka357
          igorka357 16 February 2018 13: 56
          +6
          Yeah, and the German saboteurs Skorzeny were the best after them ... I just paid all the SMERSH to the NKVD and the MGB-KGB of the USSR ... laughing! By the way ... our grandfathers were in Berlin, and not vice versa, this is in case of your stupid evidence!
          1. Separ
            Separ 16 February 2018 14: 09
            +3
            It’s a pity that they didn’t get to the Coliseum, but it would be necessary.
          2. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 16 February 2018 14: 23
            +9
            Quote: igorka357
            Yeah, and the German saboteurs Skorzeny were the best after them ... I just paid all the SMERSH to the NKVD and the MGB-KGB of the USSR ... laughing! By the way ... our grandfathers were in Berlin, and not vice versa, this is in case of your stupid evidence!

            What are you talking about? Sick? Here about the Martial Swimmer! Too quiet - scream yaaaaah! Work on yourself. I am very proud that our grandfathers took Berlin, and more than once! Yes, and about stupid evidence, watch out for the speech!
            1. sogdy
              sogdy 16 February 2018 15: 03
              +1
              Quote: Hunter 2
              What are you talking about? Sick? Here about the Martial Swimmer!

              Quote: igorka357
              this is in case of your stupid evidence!

              You know, when I want to have fun, I read versions of the Dyatlov pass. People who are infinitely far from the topic are also cut there.

              And yes, conclusions are drawn from facts, not speculation.
              The main fact is the inaction of the crew. So this is the Black Sea. The explosion rises a terribly poisonous and explosive gas. And the Germans owned this technique. Like ours. One can not argue about the actions of the captain - since the explosion doubled, only those who managed to get out of the gas cloud and did not get poisoned were saved.
              In the gas mixture, hydrogen sulfide, sulfur oxide and oxide and sulfuric anhydride. There are more interesting compounds, variably.
          3. verner1967
            verner1967 17 February 2018 10: 53
            +1
            Quote: igorka357
            Just paid to all SMERSH NKVD, and the MGB-KGB of the USSR ...

            Yes, and the war was special forces for special forces, and millions of armies as spectators were. Do not talk nonsense!
      3. Skif83
        Skif83 17 February 2018 11: 46
        +1
        Exactly, somehow I can’t believe that the battleship with a displacement of almost 29 thousand tons drowned from an old mine ...
        Here is an analysis of the possible causes of the death of Novorossiysk :(http://army.armor.kiev.ua/engenear/mormine-BM-a.s
        html
        ):
        GENERAL CONCLUSION. Thus, it becomes clear that a BM 1000 mine with any explosive device could not explode under a battleship on the night of October 29, even if we made a fantastic assumption that the batteries were operational and operational. The ship stood still, its cars did not work and the screws stood. No ships sailed near the battleship at night. Mines of this type were not equipped with any mechanisms that work simply after a lapse of time.
    2. KVU-NSVD
      KVU-NSVD 16 February 2018 13: 34
      +9
      probably decided to do a barefoot fit.
      Maybe so, and the debate about the causes of death is eternal, like the Americans on the moon - at least there are as many well-grounded questions for the official version .. Rest in peace, sailors ...
    3. Separ
      Separ 16 February 2018 14: 06
      +2
      We need to help him - toss up a bit of ruble, and he will ruin the European Union because he is tired of the Italians like a bitter radish.
  2. Herculesic
    Herculesic 16 February 2018 13: 28
    +2
    Well, and what, does it somehow influence the fact that the ship died? Now it’s not so important. You won’t return the dead!
    1. Falcond
      Falcond 16 February 2018 13: 37
      +1
      Duck and the question is not the "return of the dead"!
      The question is, who is to blame for the fact that people died!
  3. Albatroz
    Albatroz 16 February 2018 13: 29
    +1
    Who rejected?
    Does Mali say anything
    I don’t see any facts
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 16 February 2018 13: 35
      +1
      Surely, fragments of mines have just been found.
  4. Alex-a832
    Alex-a832 16 February 2018 13: 30
    +1
    Unless the saboteurs transported a mine under the battleship. Although in that period of post-war "surprises" in the sea was not measured.
    1. sharp-lad
      sharp-lad 16 February 2018 21: 33
      0
      These surprises are not enough now. sad
  5. Rostislav
    Rostislav 16 February 2018 13: 30
    0
    The investigation of the incident involved a government commission. According to her report, it is most likely that a German mine exploded during the Great Patriotic War exploded under the battleship.

    That is, there is still no clarity.
  6. Ferdinant
    Ferdinant 16 February 2018 13: 35
    0
    And dill did not declare their involvement, I wonder?
    1. Antares
      Antares 16 February 2018 20: 58
      +1
      Quote: Ferdinant
      And dill did not declare their involvement, I wonder?

      Yeah. Like they are. And then they were given the order. Posthumously
      The text still contains ambiguity. Probably. So they did not refute anything.
  7. igorka357
    igorka357 16 February 2018 13: 35
    +3
    VO admins and moderators, what is this? What article ... to dissolve srach? What have you gotten crazy? If only the VO observers, not burdened with brains and analytics, started talking on this subject ....?
  8. Falcond
    Falcond 16 February 2018 13: 35
    0
    Such refutations can be made to please any upcoming event (the upcoming meeting of the heads ... or a big deal) ... and when necessary, another person will "prove" that they were Italian saboteurs ... and so on infinity ... History is interpreted to please modern realities ...
  9. ul_vitalii
    ul_vitalii 16 February 2018 13: 38
    +7
    Kissel in milk. They did not see the mine and did not believe that she would drown them. As if they ran into a log. repeat
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 16 February 2018 14: 33
      +1
      Quote: ul_vitalii
      They did not see the mine and did not believe that she would drown them.

      With the discovery of mines in the Sevastopol Bay, everything is really not very good. Trawled, trawled, searched, searched, opened the bay - and still continue to find mines. EMNIP, the last German bottom mine (at the moment) was destroyed in June 2017.
      And mines come across quite alive. In 2004, three wise men tried to make out the mine they found. The trap worked - 2 corpses.
      On Monday, January 26, private entrepreneur Kalchuk and his two assistants were diving in Kamyshovaya Bay and found a large metal cylinder at the bottom of the sea. Divers lifted him ashore.
      Subsequently, they transported the find to the area of ​​Krasnaya Gorka and unloaded it on a site near the private house of the entrepreneur Kalchuk on 9 Caspian Street.
      On Saturday evening, at half-past five, the brigade gathered outside the house to make out the find. When trying to dismantle individual parts of the subject, an explosion occurred, as a result of which two were killed, the third was seriously injured.

      And about the "did not believe" ... a lot of bosses arrived to save LK, but there were too few willing to take responsibility. In addition, EMNIP, a fairly old ship already had problems with the water resistance of the bulkheads.
  10. Curious
    Curious 16 February 2018 13: 45
    +2
    Well, and how does this news differ from publications in the yellow press? Are there any documents, new facts? It is unclear what this message is for.
  11. Svarog51
    Svarog51 16 February 2018 13: 48
    +1
    The investigation was conducted by a government commission. According to her report, most likelythat a German mine, delivered during the Great Patriotic War, exploded under a battleship.

    Well, where is the refutation? The allegations that the German mine was pulled are not observed here. From the word at all. request
  12. senima56
    senima56 16 February 2018 13: 49
    +4
    That's interesting: How could the crew (!!!) notice a "rusty bottom mine"? The author of the article how does this imagine? Then the "crew was bewildered" !? The crew must be led! And give the crew the necessary, timely, understandable commands! If gentlemen, admirals once again, "about .... fallen"! No need to blame the crew, which, for some reason, did not notice a rusty German mine at the bottom of the bay!
  13. kuz363
    kuz363 16 February 2018 13: 59
    +1
    Does the editor-in-chief question the recognition of the operation participants themselves? Then cool. How many times after the war did they trawl this bay! And how many ships went through the mine. But for some reason, everything so suspiciously coincided with a former Italian ship.
  14. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 16 February 2018 14: 14
    +1
    "Rusty mine" the author actually imagines, "what" mine was accused of the death of a battleship? He probably thinks that it was something spherical, with "horns" and on the minrep, but in fact the bottom mine was accused with a case for explosives in the form of a box, moreover, from wood, with devices that were at the top of the mine box in a special hemispherical capsule forms — moreover, the shape of the recess in charge for this capsule contributes to some cumulative effect.
  15. Blue fox
    Blue fox 16 February 2018 14: 19
    +2
    I do not believe. The most interesting study for me at one time was read by Veremeyev, who was deeply respected by me, who, together with the consultants, worked on specific calculations about the possibilities of detonating Novorossiysk in a German bottom mine during the war.
    http://army.armor.kiev.ua/engenear/lmb.shtml
  16. vvp2412
    vvp2412 16 February 2018 14: 22
    0
    And in 10 years no one has found this mine, hooked it? And how did the ship standing on the roadstead, without movement, hit a mine?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 16 February 2018 14: 58
      0
      The ship got a wandering mine.
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 16 February 2018 15: 06
        +1
        Here is all about the mine, which may have caused the tragedy:
        http://army.armor.kiev.ua/engenear/rmh.shtml
  17. Graz
    Graz 16 February 2018 14: 33
    +1
    the article is completely unsubstantiated, as well as the evidence given in it
  18. sigdoc
    sigdoc 16 February 2018 15: 09
    +1
    This is the work of the filthy Khrushchev and his team:
    1. Only ours could carry a large amount of explosives onto the ship.
    2. The team was drowned openly intentionally for several hours so that there were fewer witnesses and it was not the Italians or the British.
    3. Our intelligence services were investigating, and they obviously weren’t fools so that they could not establish the cause.
    4. The consequences of the explosion were not in foreign policy, but in domestic: I completely agree with
    Quote: Per se.
    As a result of the death of the flagship, our Black Sea Fleet remained in the base, Admiral Kuznetsov lost his post, the battlecruisers were scrapped, and the surface fleet itself was cut down by Nikita Khrushchev.
    1. Evgeny RS
      Evgeny RS 16 February 2018 15: 41
      +1
      Explosion of a bottom mine - construction inside. Inner explosion - constructions outward.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 16 February 2018 17: 06
        0
        Quote: Eugene RS
        Internal Explosion - Outward Structures
        I have already said above, it was not just an internal explosion, but a directional explosion, resulting from the laying of explosives between the old and the new nasal tip of the battleship.
        Two outdoor explosions were to detonate the main charge, which was already inside the battleship. The edges bent inside here are explained by the fact that, firstly, the internal explosion had the effect of a directional explosion, from bottom to top, and did not have a special effect on the character of the chipping from the detonator mine, and, secondly, water under enormous pressure bent into the hole even stronger inside.
    2. Per se.
      Per se. 16 February 2018 17: 00
      +1
      Quote: sigdoc
      The consequences of the explosion were not in foreign policy, but in domestic
      Sergey, in my context, it is primarily about an internal explosion, and not about internal politics. The fact that Khrushchev took advantage of the situation is another matter, but the version of the involvement of our intelligence services in undermining their own warship, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, that was preparing with a squadron to enter the Mediterranean Sea, is absurd. Khrushchev did not need to displace Kuznetsov something, like setting fire to the Reichstag, or monstrous and stupid in execution, a show with twin towers destroyed by an industrial explosion, not kamikaze planes ... The murder of our sailors on the conscience of Western "partners", and indirectly, their own high leadership, overlooked sabotage. The bottom mine is, like, “he drowned,” a convenient otmaz, to save his own posts and the desire for rapprochement with the West with Khrushchev. The battleship killed 29 on October 1955, and in the spring of 1956, Khrushchev will visit England on the cruiser Ordzhonikidze, where the scandal with the underwater saboteur, which received publicity, will occur.
      1. sigdoc
        sigdoc 16 February 2018 19: 25
        +1
        The West "draws closer" only to those who are ready to cause significant harm to their country for the sake of "partners". Novorossiysk is primarily a demonstration the possibilities and "serious intentions" of the new Soviet elite to destroy and plunder the country. What do you think Khrushchev discussed with the British?
        Moreover, Novorossiysk is a trifle in comparison with other Khrushchev's feats:
        en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin Transformation Plan
        nature_nature
  19. Indifferent
    Indifferent 16 February 2018 15: 34
    0
    Like no one knew anything, no one knew anything. And every official can shake the air. And it seems to him that the higher he is in office, the more truthful is his story. There is a small mine on such a ship to drown in the bay, and even with such losses. It is clear that with this catastrophe, as it was muddy, it remained.
  20. Whowhy
    Whowhy 16 February 2018 17: 01
    0
    I’m more interested in who and why pulled this topic right now ....
  21. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 16 February 2018 20: 07
    +1
    These are all versions and words, and what really happened was still to be proved.
  22. aleks.29ru
    aleks.29ru 16 February 2018 20: 18
    0
    Quote: Monos
    Pasha, welcome! hi drinks
    most likely a German mine exploded under a battleship

    Battleship flood due to the explosion of ONE "rusty" mine and so quickly that 800 people died? They whom for idiots consider themselves or us?

    People died because they were ordered to build and wait. Command did not expect the ship to sink.
  23. kan123
    kan123 17 February 2018 09: 59
    0
    It is clear that walking on the beach in a closed city, saboteurs who swim at night and screw mines, this is nonsense. But the mine, too - delirium, - "old, rusty" - who saw it this mine? Laid down when they handed over, and the ship was handed over by the Americans who are in comp. wars with the USSR, and somehow intensified - you cannot destroy a ship in one mine, you need several "old rusty mines" that burst simultaneously in the right places of the hull. This "old rusty" floated there over the bay for years, the children rode on it, the fishermen ganged at it. Eternal enemies, the Americans, with their "gifts" did it.
  24. serg.shishkov2015
    serg.shishkov2015 17 February 2018 14: 19
    0
    I did not believe in this nonsense from the very beginning! a few years after the end of the war, break through into a protected enemy port in order to drown the modernized pelvis of the PMV, Why ??? !! HONOR?? Surrender in whole divisions in Stalingrad and squadrons in the Mediterranean, so honor allowed? and then it could have been easier done in the process of transferring the battleship to us, The road is long, you never know what could happen
  25. dDYHA
    dDYHA 17 February 2018 17: 39
    0
    The charges were laid before the transfer of Caesar to the USSR. Most likely the British. At one time, there was a conversation that the midshipman, upon acceptance, drew attention to the fresh paint on the bulkheads just in the place where the explosion occurred. This version was quickly hushed up. And since they quickly hushed up, that means the most faithful version. And the charge was with a clock or other timer. It was possible it was attached both inside and outside the case. By the way, was he examined from the outside during the transfer? And the fact that they were laid correctly and the time was calculated up to an hour. Says the fact that the ship was destroyed.
    1. M. Michelson
      M. Michelson 17 February 2018 22: 53
      0
      There is a version that the main charge was without a timer, and at the right moment a small mine detonator was attached from the outside. Reasonable IMHO.
  26. tank64rus
    tank64rus 17 February 2018 19: 52
    0
    Well, how did the black prince borghese decide to refute. You can see the wind blew from the other side.
  27. Wolka
    Wolka 17 February 2018 19: 58
    0
    who will believe this, well, you can’t do that, not only ordinary people read VO ...
  28. Catfish
    Catfish 18 February 2018 01: 00
    +1
    Interestingly, how could this crew have noticed the "old rusty German" mine? Did they carefully look down from the side of the battleship, or did they dive right from the side and check on foot under the bottom? The crew went about their business - carried the service. A check of the hulls of ships, especially those departing on a long voyage, was always carried out by special fleet services. And it’s not shameful to carry such nonsense (about a rusty mine and a dumb carriage) to a person who, according to his position, would seem to know what he is talking about.

    Here, the guys wrote a lot correctly and the versions are very sensible. I just remembered that I read with Nikolai Cherkashin in one of his books about a visit to the museum of the submarine fleet by our sailors. Either in La Spezia ... or somewhere else ... I don’t remember exactly. So, there, in one big hall, ONLY two pictures hang opposite each other: on one there are two combat swimmers riding on a carrier, and on the contrary Cesare, in full swing. There is nothing more there, only these two paintings and lists of the dead Italian submariners. That's what you want, so consider it. hi
  29. bovamsk
    bovamsk 18 February 2018 15: 22
    0
    My father was the commander of the hydrographic ship Delta, which was part of the Black Sea Fleet.
    According to his stories, the explosion was of such a force that he and his mother woke up, thought an air raid. After about 20 minutes, a messenger came running and his father went on alarm to his ship.
    Subsequently, he took a practical part in the work of the state commission on the death of Novorossiysk. What I remember from his words:
    1. there was enough time and technical ability to start the car, back up and put the ship aground, the rudders and propellers would fly, but Novorossiysk would land and not roll over. None of the new arrivals took this responsibility.
    2. A dozen experiments were carried out - various types of mines were blown up under manufactured shields imitating the hull of a ship. None of them left the destruction that was in reality.
    3. for another day, divers heard a knock in the hull of an overturned and sunken ship.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. Flyer_64
    Flyer_64 19 February 2018 13: 38
    0
    Editor-in-chief of the Bulletin of the Archive of the President of Russia Sergei Kudryashov.
    . Very clearly describes the personnel policy and the state of the personnel reserve of our guarantor. There have been many publications on this topic. Yes, there are conclusions of the state commission about the detonation of a mine and not rust at all, quite powerful about a ton in equivalent, buried in silt (the bottom in the bay is very muddy), but eroded for various reasons. This is a very convenient version. But in the Navy, the version is leaning toward saboteurs. There is a lot of indirect evidence for this. And the rewarding of Italian swimmers, and the establishment of a permanent network fence at the entrance to the Sevastopol Bay and the display of fighting dolphins after the disaster, which was not done before. A large number of victims is no longer from the explosion, but from the organization of the rescue operation and not competent leadership of it. The ship stood on barrels on the beam of the hospital, and there was a proposal to push it aground, but the leadership was obsessed with the struggle for the survivability of the ship, as a result, Novorossiysk turned over and people were blocked. The editor of the presidential archive could not have known this, so making such a statement he is simply a hypocrite, ridiculous and stupid.