Military Review

General Frost and Mister Lend-Lease

156
About what the falsifiers actually achieve stories, a Topwar correspondent is told by the military historian, expert and publicist Nikolai Adamov.


General Frost and Mister Lend-Lease


"HE CHANGED THE TIMETABLE OF WAR ..."

- Nikolay Anatolyevich, why did the Western interpreters of history so intensively set about interpreting the events of the Great Patriotic War? This is a hit of the last five or seven years, before they somehow did not touch our Victory ...

- I believe that any victory has a temporary aftertaste. The aftertaste of our victory was enough for half a century. A lot, by the way. History knows a lot of examples when other exploits were forgotten faster. Our victory in World War II is the greatest victory in the greatest of wars that mankind has ever led for its liberation from slavery. It is like the second coming of Christ. True, the victims were exorbitant.

- The start of this entire campaign was given by the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which we began to poke into the eyes in the very beginning of the nineties.

- In the 40s, a fierce diplomatic struggle was waged around one question: who would Hitler attack first? And the fact that war is inevitable and will go on both fronts was obvious to everyone. Everything was breathing war, the entire male population of Germany was harnessed to the chariot of war. Britain, France were terribly afraid of Hitler's expansion to the west. They were aware of the sweep of Hitler's appetites, which Churchill himself called "the hyena's appetite." In order to redirect the aggressor to the East, they were ready not only to conclude a deal with Hitler himself. We must pay tribute to them - they did it. As a result, there was still a complete and cowardly capitulation of the Western democracies to brute force. The Munich Agreement of 1938 of the Year, signed by Chamberlain, Daladier, Hitler and Mussolini, who threw Czechoslovakia to Hitler's feet - this is the indelible disgrace of the West, cynicism, extended into infinity. After swallowing Czechoslovakia, digesting it and not choking, Hitler began to rapidly develop success, and the Western powers wanted to pacify him further through the eastern lands. All attempts by Soviet diplomacy to conclude a comprehensive treaty with the West against Hitler have collapsed. Realizing that we were led by the nose, our diplomats at the last moment beat the West in this game. Even former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger admitted that "a measure of Stalin's achievement can be considered a change in the schedule of war and the priorities of Hitler."

WHO SHOULD ANYWHERE DO THOSE WHOLE ...

“But a little later, the myth was launched that we allegedly showered the Germans with corpses ...”


- The hidden idiocy of this philippic is not given to any logical analysis. Is that the corpses of their enemies. And in general, what does it mean - showered with corpses? Loaded them on the aircraft and dropped from the air to the position of the enemy, or what? Or something else?

- But it seems that our victims were almost exorbitant compared to their losses ...

- Let's take it in order. After all, we fought not only with the Germans. In the forty-first year, almost 450 million continental Europe fought against us. Everybody stood up against us under the German banners: Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Poles, Spaniards, Italians, Danes, Dutch, Croats, Bulgarians, Danes, Finns, Romanians, and so on. Almost everything except the British. Some Frenchmen in the Wehrmacht fought 200 thousands of people. Among the SS divisions were: French “Charlemagne”, Dutch “Netherlands”, Belgian “Wallonia” and “Langemark”, Scandinavian “Norland”, “Viking” and “Nord”.

Yes, and supplied the German army, too, all of Europe. The maneuverability of the Wehrmacht was provided by the French locomotives and cars. Accuracy and destructiveness of artillery shelling - at the expense of the guns made at the Czechoslovak Skoda. The best steel went to Germany from Sweden, precision optical devices came from Switzerland. By the way, in the years of the Second World Europe, more than ever, it was an economically single organism. And this whole organism, mercilessly spinning a centrifuge of war, worked against us. As Churchill noted, not the greatest friend of the Soviet Union, mankind’s choice was between blessing and damnation. And we won. We beat them all. And now the grandchildren of the vanquished, burdened with a huge guilt complex, have decided to take away the victory from the grandchildren of the victors. Churchill himself, by the way, called this motivation "a grave offspring of past evil and shame, the hatred of the vanquished." Therefore, all these carriers of the complex of the vanquished are choking with bile, trying to level the truly sacrificial feat of our people.

If you were not a Russian (or Russian - as you please) soldier, many of the current heralds of absolute truth would long ago have become the smoke of crematoria.

- Western ideologists often savor the details that nearly five million Soviet soldiers in the very first days of the war ended up in German captivity.

- I have the impression that these falsifiers are experiencing some kind of cannibalistic pleasure from this. First, we dealt with an excellent military machine that crashed entire European states in a matter of days and weeks. France had a two millionth army, and capitulated in less than a month. We had fewer prisoners after the war. Judge for yourself. According to the facts from the archives of the Ministry of Defense, after the war 2 million 400 thousand Germans, 500 000 Hungarians, 200 000 Romanians, 150 000 Austrians, 60 000 Poles, 10 000 Poles, XNUMX XNUMX Poles turned out to be Soviet prisoners of war. Not such a little selfless team. According to the cannibal logic of the invaders, we could starve them all - as they did with us. But the Soviet leadership turned out to be more humane and constructive - the Germans were simply forced to rebuild those cities that they had turned into smoking ruins and bloodied ashes during the offensive. And they built ... And no one died of starvation. In any case, such facts of history are unknown.

Secondly, we lost a huge number of those killed, freeing the same Europe from the Germans. In Poland alone, 600 000 soldiers died. And both the Germans and the Poles themselves fought against us. If we didn’t go to Europe, we would save millions of lives. But the running centrifuge of history could not be stopped, it was necessary to break the back of the German beast, and we crossed the border.
The Americans, by the way, figured in 1944 that the liberation of Japan would cost them from half a million to a million zinc coffins of their compatriots. And the Japanese already quite successfully fought with them on the same Okinawa. And, having decided to protect their living forces, the Americans rushed to the territory of Hiroshima nuclear bomb.

And finally, third. The Germans considered only their losses, and only combat. Some Czechs, Hungarians and Poles were not the least interested in calculating losses. But if we only captured half a million Hungarians as prisoners, how many were killed on the battlefields? They, after all, did not surrender all in captivity, right? The same applies to Romanians, Italians, and all the rest. So the balance of irretrievable losses is in fact completely different. And who threw whom and whose corpses - the question is, of course, interesting. And finally, the most important thing. It is not a secret for anyone that the German invaders and others like them with millions destroyed the civilian population, burned alive our women and children - an unprecedented, monstrous act of vandalism. But the peaceful German (and not only) population practically did not suffer from the Soviet troops. No such facts. But, theoretically, our troops could repeat their experience on the liberated German territory. But we were more humane than our enemy, and saved the lives of millions of Europeans, ungrateful descendants of whom are now trying to denigrate the feat of our fathers. If it were not for our fathers, their ancestors would be shades or the smoke of crematoria, and they themselves would not have been born at all.

NEW COURSE - GENERAL MOROZ

- Another favorite topic - General Frost helped the Russians ...


- A bad dance ... sorry, the warrior is always hampered by the cold. And what about the existence of frosts before the war did not know their vaunted Guderian, Meinstein and Halder? By the way, Guderian studied in general in Russia - he knew where he was going. But what about those ideological videos, where (he saw) brave German soldiers with happy faces, stripped to the waist, are being wiped with Russian snow? And what frost did they prevent at the Battle of Kursk, which happened in the hot summer of 1943? And in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania and. Finally, Germany itself? What, own frost on his Fatherland also became a problem?

By the way, even during the Crimean War, Lord Palmerstone wrote about the terrible situation of Russian soldiers freezing in the icy wind. It is in the subtropical Crimea! In this regard, the current falsifiers are by no means original - absolutely all the unlucky opponents of Russia threw all their failures onto the Russian weather! But, one wonders, what are you for the fighters, even if you can not cope with the weather? Suvorov, in his famous “science of winning,” I remember, said: “A soldier who is afraid of the weather is a woman, not a soldier!”

Although among them were more objective appraisers. The same general, Katkart, commander of the English division during the Crimean War at the Battle of Alma (then 32, thousands of Russian soldiers with outdated guns, attacked 55 by thousands of well-equipped Allied forces), declared the Russian infantry “not capable of panic. But the words of the professional intelligence officer and ideologist Lord Palmerston were scattered all over Europe then, and no one heard the military general. Or did not want to hear ...

- Many modern believers began to talk about how we are obliged to American lend-lease aid before losing our pulse. Like, without the American stew and "studebkekerov" and the war would not have won.

“But they forget to even mention that for this help of the allies we paid them in gold.” And the more so no one explains that we needed the Lend-Lease mainly for the short period when we evacuated our enterprises to the east.

In the West, by the way, the topic of Lend-Lease is strictly taboo. To open it means to recognize that the Anglo-Saxons saw in us not so much allies as partners in a very profitable trade deal for them.

Repentance and repentance!

- At one time, it was very fashionable to demand repentance from Russia - for all the atrocities she allegedly committed. It was not only the Europeans who sinned, but also the native liberal intelligentsia ...


- Rather, the lackeys of mental labor, which come to mind only well-paid thoughts. The basic law of politics, run-in for millennia: in the world no one repents for anything. Repentance must be hurt, and in the world of politics hurt will always be billed. The goal of repentance that Russians demand is to create a wounded self-consciousness in us. So that the Russians, as befitted the vanquished, would press their heads more strongly into their shoulders, so that they would feel guilty and repent. People with such blurred self-consciousness do not even need to twist their hands. They are easier to incline to concessions - from political to territorial. I, a professional diplomat, would like to ask these truth-seekers: are you looking for the truth or do you demand repentance? What is the truth? A lot of them. In politics, every nation and every state has its own truth. I believe that our repentance, in its time, has already passed all imaginable and inconceivable limits. At the beginning of the roaring nineties, we were ready to sprinkle ashes on our heads for even what we had not done. By the way, France after Napoleon brought repentance only after she was put on her knees. But in these wars killed millions of people, including the furnace of all the Napoleonic wars were sent 2 million French.

- Practically every European country has claims to Russia. The same Poland, for example, can not accept the fact that Russia has dissected it three times.

- But the fact that the Polish lancers once smoked in the walls of the Moscow Kremlin, they certainly relate favorably and with understanding. Yes, Russia dismembered Poland three times, along with other countries. Poland as part of the Commonwealth extended its ambitions from sea to sea, and Russia did not naturally tolerate this. And not put up. But in those regions that belonged to Austria, after their rule, the Poles did not remain at all, and in the territory belonging to Russia, their number increased threefold. How do you like this fact?

“And the Poles are constantly reproaching us with Katyn ...”

- Firstly, the issue with Katyn is not fully investigated until now. Undoubtedly, there were crimes of the NKVD, but the Nazi crimes also left their mark. Yes, indeed, the NKVD fighters probably shot about 1,500 people in Ostashkovsky and other camps. But who? Mainly gendarmes, officials from the military judicial department of the Polish army. But about the fact that in the 20 year in the territory occupied by Pilsudski, about 100 thousands of Red Army soldiers were captured, the Poles for some reason do not like to remember. And these prisoners were simply starved to death - they were not specifically fed, watching them die and go crazy. Yes, the Poles are constantly demanding an apology from us. Then it remains to offer them to apologize for the invasion of Moscow in 1612, for the burning of Metropolitan Hermogenes, for participation and incitement in distemper ... Otherwise, it turns out to be a game with only one goal - with a notoriously known result.

PEOPLE'S WINNER OR “PEOPLE-FAILOR”?

- We are constantly reproached with the fact that the Russians, they say, are a loser people, unable to create anything progressive, and our place is on the sidelines of civilization and history.


- Of course, in the West civilization has always been more. Especially civilized Europeans conducted the Inquisition, when a person was turned into a howling bag with bones. We don’t have such things. In Europe, at one time they said: beauty from Satan. And, guided by this progressive promise, he burned his own beautiful women at the stake. Thrown into the fire, do not burn - it means a witch. Burn - well, sorry. And in Russia, still beautiful women are found at every intersection. We believe that beauty is from God.
After the fires of the Inquisition, the Europeans were very progressive and in the spirit of the times they indulged in the slave trade for quite a long time, pumping up American plantations with black slaves. The first utterly civilized Holocaust also happened in Europe - even during the Renaissance. Concentration camps were invented in a very civilized way - during the times of the Anglo-Boer War. Then progressive Europeans invented “fascism” extremely “civilizedly” and launched a wheel full of bloody bones around the world. And then it was also very civilized - they dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Soviet Union, which also had an atomic bomb by that time, could not afford it even in a terrible dream ... And now they have turned civilized Libya into bloody ruins ...

We did not have an inquisition, we did not burn a single woman at the stake. We live in Siberia "our Indians", a lot of Mongoloid type nationalities. None of them have ever been pounded on the reservation. We did not force anyone to forcibly accept Christianity. He did not undertake any knightly campaigns against any denomination. We did not have a single colony. We, too, didn’t throw off the atomic bomb, unlike the civilized West, ...

Now about the curb of history. Let us turn to the dry facts. In the creation of the atomic bomb, we are ahead of Britain on 3 year, France - on 10 years. In the creation of thermonuclear: Britain - on 4 year, France - on 15 years. The first nuclear power plant was launched again in the USSR, in the 1954 year. Only two years later - in the UK, and after three years - in the USA. By the way, the first nuclear-powered icebreaker was also launched in the USSR, in 1959 year. So who and who has been catching up all these years?

SWEET FRUIT SWEETS

In general, the struggle for minds and souls was conducted without stopping the entire time of the Cold War - immediately after Churchill's famous Fulton speech, declaring the Soviet Union an evil empire and the less well-known, but much more iconic speech of Allen Dulles, where the entire technology of information wars is spelled with terrific cynicism and virtuoso confidence . They led the information war even then, and did not spare money for it. They also imposed on our youth (and not without success) the Western value system, the cult of the Western way of life. And they pecked at it.

- And I remember pecked. We were crazy about jeans, the Rolling Stones, pinkfloyd's Walls. And from the same Coca-Cola! And at night, the most advanced students under the pillows or quietly listened to Radio Liberty.

“… Right, because the forbidden fruit was sweet.” Immediately after World War II, fierce competition between various value orientations and development models began.

And bans alone eliminated this competition. It was only possible to delay the outcome. And our political agencies and staff propagandists, apart from prohibitions, could not present anything to our society. Whether they were organized, or something else. Thus, they often achieved the opposite effect, stirring up interest in the Western way of life. In any case, Western ideological creativity defeated our inertia, kondovost and overorganization. As a result, we received the pathos of the stands and laughter of smokers, and in the end the Soviet Union collapsed like a drunk in a puddle. Sobering came much later. From the fact that we were bad (as they assured us), we all made the erroneous conclusion that they were good. “And very few will guess what is really going on,” said Allen Dulles in his famous speech 1946 of the year dedicated to the collapse of the USSR. “But we will put such people in a helpless position, turn them into a mockery, find a way to slander them.” We will shatter thus, generation after generation. We will take on people from childhood, youth, we will always make a major stake on young people, we will decay, corrupt, corrupt it. We will make of young cynics, vulgar, cosmopolitan. This is how we will do it. ” That's how they did it. Now they want to do the same with our war and our victory. Will not work…

- Speaking about the war, we cannot ignore the topic of patriotism, which during the nineties was almost taboo. Even special slogans were invented - leaven patriotism, “patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” ...

And then what is American patriotism, coca-cola, or what? And the Italians - macaroni? Do the English have a pudding respectively? I'll give you an offhand statement of three great people, world-wide authorities, about leaven, as you say, patriotism. Napoleon remarked that “patriotism is a quality that distinguishes a citizen from a slave” Richard Aldington called patriotism “a wonderful sense of collective responsibility.” And Churchill noticed that his "all his life was distinguished by inflexible patriotism and a desire to exalt the royal howl, bordered by the silver of the seas." And about the last refuge of the villain ... A perfect example of how a phrase taken out of context can radically change all of its original meaning. Because the original phrase of Samuel Jones actually sounded like this: “Patriotism is the last refuge even for a scoundrel.” That is, even a scum can become a worthy member of society if he remembers the need to be a patriot.

“But why are such forces accumulated to counter falsification — the Foreign Ministry, the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Culture, and two federal channels?” Not a bit of honor?

“Yes, the enemy is too serious, and too much money is accumulated to deprive us of our historical memory.” And the money - the famous bespezhibitel and hair breaker. And he sets himself a too large-scale task - to force us to abandon the feat of our fathers, to change our whole ideological paradigm, to recognize that in this world there is only one absolute value - the true dollar in its glory. And, as a result, become dust on the other hand of history.

Yes, the Second World War is lost by the West. After all the sacrifices, we established our victorious flag among the split Teutonic gods. But the “cold” is not lost, but today they would like to rekindle the psychological one. Our victory does not give them peace. Because of her background often their own nothingness literally hits the eyes. The grandchildren of those who at one time meekly knelt before Hitler, are seething with an irrational hatred of the children of the victors, prompting them to abandon the great feat of the fathers. But if we give up the exploits of our fathers, our own grandchildren will curse us, the most important braces of society, which make the territory - a country, and the people inhabiting it - society, nation, people, will weaken and collapse. This is the calculation.

But, as the poet said, “our dead will not leave us in trouble, our fallen - like sentries ...” And we, too, are sentries of our memory, which calls us to be worthy of the deeds of our fathers.

As soon as we destroy the true memory of the Great Patriotic War, our country will simply cease to exist. And Russia is an eternal country that Christ barefoot proceeded, which gave birth to Sergius of Radonezh and Andrei Rublev. Therefore, having been the will of fate on another front - ideological, we will fight - for the ashes of our fathers, for the temples of our Gods. And for his great victory in that great war ...
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  1. BLOND
    BLOND 13 February 2018 06: 35
    +2
    lackeys of mental labor, which only well-paid thoughts come to mind. The basic law of politics, run around for millennia: no one in the world repents for anything. Repentance needs to be offended, and in the world of politics, offended will always be shown the score. The purpose of repentance, which I demand from the Russians: is to create a restrained self-awareness in us. So that the Russians, as befits the conquered, would press their shoulders harder, to feel guilty, repent

    One of the points in the line of neutral confession
    1. BLOND
      BLOND 13 February 2018 06: 45
      +12

      the plan is known
      therefore, counteraction should begin with the tightening of legislation
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 13 February 2018 08: 00
        +13
        Good article, but not complete. All the machinations of enemies, the flaws of the Soviet period in terms of the hardened political thinking that made the “forbidden fruit sweet” are painted, but not a word is written about those who carried out the Dulles plan in our country, and stood and still stand in power in Russia while continuing to fulfill this diabolical plan for the destruction of Russia.
        The article says:
        But why are such forces accumulated to counter falsification - the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Miobauki, the Ministry of Culture, two federal channels? Not too much honor?

        Many believe that such "huge" forces are "accumulated" in our country to counter falsification?
        Ministry of Education and Science? Then where do we get the “boys from Urengoy” in large numbers, because he was not alone there, a whole delegation of Russian schoolchildren in the Bundenstag, complainants about the “innocent murdered fascists”? And what about Russian history textbooks? In which the entire Soviet period of history, which he created, is distorted, ensured our VICTORY in the Second World War. Textbooks in which the subject of the study of Victory allocated only a few pages. National war heroes Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya, 28 Panfilovites, Alexander Matrosov, marshals and soldiers are not even mentioned.
        And the Ministry of Culture? One that generates myths about the war, distorting it. Is it enough to recall Bondorchuk’s film about the Battle of Stalingrad, Mikhalkov with his films in which soldiers attack with sticks?
        Yes, the Foreign Ministry itself, along with modern leaders of the state who admit that they took upon themselves the shooting of the Poles in Katyn, which was not even recognized by the Nuremberg court that it was committed by the Russians.
        What accumulated forces can one speak of in Russia when the VICTORY PARADE in Moscow is held with a draped Mausoleum, at the foot of which the banners of defeated Germany were thrown? Remember the celebrations in honor of the recent 75th anniversary of the Battle of Stalingrad, held with the distorted Banner of Victory, without the Hammer and Sickle, depicted on the real Banner of Victory, in the faceless city of Volgograd, not bearing in its name a formidable gleam of that battle.
        Unfortunately, the current capitalist Russia and its leadership themselves falsify the history of the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War, our Victory.
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 13 February 2018 08: 42
          +6
          Quote: vladimirZ
          the Foreign Ministry itself, together with modern leaders of the state who admit that they took upon themselves the execution of the Poles in Katyn, which was not even recognized by the Nuremberg Court that it was committed by the Russians

          ... and Stalin burns in hell two times brighter than Hitler ... well, in any case, M. Zakharova, the official representative of the same Foreign Ministry, thinks so.
        2. shuravi
          shuravi 13 February 2018 11: 12
          +10
          Quote: vladimirZ
          Good article, but not complete. All the machinations of enemies, the flaws of the Soviet period in terms of the hardened political thinking that made the “forbidden fruit sweet” are painted, but not a word is written about those who carried out the Dulles plan in our country, and stood and still stand in power in Russia while continuing to fulfill this diabolical plan for the destruction of Russia.


          Well, this is no secret. HMS and his team. Here are his activities:
          - acceleration, cost accounting, cooperation - de facto, the destruction of the mechanisms of the socialist economy in order to cause a mess, primarily in the field of consumer goods and, as a result, the discontent of the population
          - publicity - de facto propaganda and slander
          - perestroika - de facto demolition of the state machine, the appointment of "necessary" leaders in the field

          And on the little things:
          - hasty withdrawal of troops from Europe, the flight of Rust, - de facto measures to demoralize the army

          The final chord is GKChP. Reality show to distract the electorate. He was thrown a bone with an imitation of victory. And while he was jubilant with "his victory over the junta," the Belovezhsky conspiracy dragged this curtain.
          And then, no one then announced the collapse of the state and the change in the economic course, it was only about changing the "sign".
          So anyone who claims that the USSR has collapsed is lying. And this should be beaten in the face for a lie.
          For anyone who has eyes and brains is able to see a very clear plan and its implementation.
          1. Sotskiy
            Sotskiy 13 February 2018 14: 18
            +9
            Quote: shuravi
            So anyone who claims that the USSR has collapsed is lying. And this should be beaten in the face for a lie.
            For anyone who has eyes and brains is able to see a very clear plan and its implementation.

            100% I agree !!! good good good
        3. Sotskiy
          Sotskiy 13 February 2018 14: 13
          +5
          vladimirZ Unfortunately, the current capitalist Russia, its leadership themselves falsify the history of the Second World War, World War II, our Victory.

          good Directly removed from the tongue.
          1. shuravi
            shuravi 13 February 2018 15: 24
            +5
            Quote: Sovetskiy
            vladimirZ Unfortunately, the current capitalist Russia, its leadership themselves falsify the history of the Second World War, World War II, our Victory.

            good Directly removed from the tongue.


            They redraw it. Uncomfortable pieces are cut out to hide from the past an attractive tunic for current affairs.
            Moreover, when we do not have something to say ourselves, then there are pseudo-opposition media for this, such as Novaya Gazeta and Ekho Moskvy, which are ready to pour another bucket of slops right away at the direction of the owner. Which already the "patriotic" media will expose, but most importantly, the sediment remains.
            Or take this chatter raised about the pilot who died in Syria. Even flash mobs are fine. And after all, the vast majority of these "actively mourning" do not care about the pilot himself. The main thing is to promote yourself.
            It never occurs to anyone to ask, “Maybe they themselves did something wrong?” - No, they are only looking on the side of the guilty.
            And since the first Chechen period, political advertising has bent on tactical necessity.
            They shouted to the whole world about victory, reduced the group. And then they sent a couple for slaughter. No options. For there is no cover at all. What can I say, the crews cannot provide even personal weapons.
            But here at least the hero was given a posthumous.
            And remember the dead soldier when the crew of the Su-24 tried to save. They slipped the order to the family, and a penny for the loss of the breadwinner, and that’s it.
            Our military service is not public. For example, the report was how An-22 was planted in the field. Despite the fact that the machines are already achieving the second assigned resource.
            But for the sake of curiosity, they would call the wages of those in the carriage in comparison with the head of the wedding palace. To find out which case is more dangerous.
      2. Antianglosax
        Antianglosax 15 February 2018 20: 22
        +1
        Quote: BLOND
        the plan is known
        therefore, counteraction should begin with the tightening of legislation

        Naive and funny. They ALREADY implemented all this! And the venal greedy local Kodla of the Kremlin with discouraging enthusiasm helps the Anglo-Zionist geeks in this field!
  2. Moore
    Moore 13 February 2018 06: 41
    +4
    But our political agencies and full-time propagandists, except for bans, could not present anything to our society. Either they were organized, or something else. Thus, they often achieved the opposite effect, fostering interest in the Western way of life. In any case, Western ideological creativity defeated our inertness, condos and organization.

    Yeah ... Mikhail Andreevich was able from childhood to instill hatred of social work and a living cause.
    I remember that in the 70s they appointed (that’s how, but didn’t choose) me to the links of the pioneer detachment (of our class, in other words). Arranging for the collection of scrap metal is easy, to clean the forest of debris - as much as you like, "Zarnitsa" - generally high! But to keep in the seventh grade one notebook with work plans, and the second with the minutes of meetings ... It was tryndets ... I still remember the art of art. a pioneer leader about the fact that I didn’t unsubscribe there. Maybe somewhere else was ...
    1. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat 13 February 2018 08: 51
      +13
      But now with the "ideology" and "patriotic motivation" everything is in order .... wink

      1. Sotskiy
        Sotskiy 13 February 2018 14: 21
        +3
        But now with the "ideology" and "patriotic motivation" everything is in order .... 

        good good good
        That is the Constitution of the Russian Federation, article 13th fellow
  3. apro
    apro 13 February 2018 06: 43
    +6
    Is the truth about the victory necessary for the Russians today? Today all the advantages for the country achieved by the incredible efforts of the Soviet people and the Soviet government. Under the leadership of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and personally Comrade IVStalin lost.
    The truth makes it difficult to rob the country.
  4. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 13 February 2018 07: 03
    +7
    If you were not a Russian (or Russian - as you please) soldier, many of the current heralds of absolute truth would long ago have become the smoke of crematoria.
    All europoids need to learn this!
    1. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 13 February 2018 08: 33
      +6
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      If you were not a Russian (or Russian - as you please) soldier, many of the current heralds of absolute truth would long ago have become the smoke of crematoria.
      All europoids need to learn this!

      More correct like this - If not for Soviet soldier, many of the current heralds of absolute truth would long ago become the crematorium smoke.
      This is what all Europoids need to learn. And many VO visitors too.
      1. captain
        captain 13 February 2018 11: 27
        +4
        Quote: rkkasa 81
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        If you were not a Russian (or Russian - as you please) soldier, many of the current heralds of absolute truth would long ago have become the smoke of crematoria.
        All europoids need to learn this!

        More correct like this - If not for Soviet soldier, many of the current heralds of absolute truth would long ago become the crematorium smoke.
        This is what all Europoids need to learn. And many VO visitors too.

        Zadolbali red-flagged "Soviet people" and liberoids "Russian".
        Even the president of Uzbekistan said that the war was won thanks to RUSSIAN. I repeat for red-flagged and liberals; President of Uzbekistan said. And you all Russophobes never said this and do not tell.
        Yes, all the peoples of the USSR played a role, but the war was won thanks to the Russians, even the Uzbek president recognized it (the former first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine. And all the Russophobes settled here; especially the red-flag and liberals are afraid of recognizing this. Uuuu is a vile tribe.
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 13 February 2018 12: 49
          +10
          Quote: captain
          Zadolbali red-flagged "Soviet people"

          Quote: captain
          all the peoples of the USSR played their role, but the war was won thanks to the Russians

          Our state during the WWII was called the USSR, and its citizens were Soviet. Therefore, we must talk about the Soviet soldier. Imagine that, speaking about the war of 1812, they will tell us for example - the army of the Muscovites fought Napoleon. It’s ridiculous.
          The victory over the Nazis was won thanks to the Soviet system, thanks to the leaders of the Communists (among which, incidentally, there were many non-Russians).

          Quote: captain
          Oooo tribe is mean

          Mr. Natsik, a vile tribe, this is your tribe. First, Soviet soldiers are called Russian, they are covered with plywood, the Mausoleum, perpetuates the memory of enemies. Then they repent for the crimes of Soviet soldiers, and give Kaliningrad for example.
          Anti-Soviet, always Russophobe.
        2. Sotskiy
          Sotskiy 13 February 2018 14: 35
          +1
          Quote: captain
          And you all Russophobes never said this and do not tell.

          Is the Nationalist a Black Hundred?
          Because of such "guardians of a pure nation," the Uzbek, Kazakh, Ukrainian, Azerbaijani, Armenian, Baltic, Tatar, Chechen Presidents appeared. It was on such ideas that Russians were cut, raped, and expelled, and not only from the NATIONAL republics in the 90s.
          Do you want a "clean" nation within the borders of the state of the ancient "Muscovy"?
          It can translate to you what “Soviet” means, at least linguistically, and you are “stubborn by faith” ours ?!
        3. shuravi
          shuravi 14 February 2018 11: 02
          +4
          Quote: captain
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          If you were not a Russian (or Russian - as you please) soldier, many of the current heralds of absolute truth would long ago have become the smoke of crematoria.
          All europoids need to learn this!

          More correct like this - If not for Soviet soldier, many of the current heralds of absolute truth would long ago become the crematorium smoke.
          This is what all Europoids need to learn. And many VO visitors too.

          Zadolbali red-flagged "Soviet people" and liberoids "Russian".
          Even the president of Uzbekistan said that the war was won thanks to RUSSIAN. I repeat for red-flagged and liberals; President of Uzbekistan said. And you all Russophobes never said this and do not tell.
          Yes, all the peoples of the USSR played a role, but the war was won thanks to the Russians, even the Uzbek president recognized it (the former first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine. And all the Russophobes settled here; especially the red-flag and liberals are afraid of recognizing this. Uuuu is a vile tribe.



          Well, yes, they are not the winners in your version. Not Russians.


  5. Amurets
    Amurets 13 February 2018 07: 13
    +1
    After the bonfires of the Inquisition, the Europeans are very progressive and in the spirit of the times quite indulged in the slave trade, pumping American plantations with black slaves. The first civilized Holocaust also happened in Europe - back in the Renaissance. Invented in a very civilized manner

    Yes, not blacks, blacks were very expensive, and Europeans were the first slaves in America: "We don’t need to list all the bloody details, right? We know too well the atrocities of the African slave trade.
    But is it really about African slaves? Kings James the Second and Charles the First also made a lot of efforts to develop slavery - enslaving the Irish. The famous Englishman Oliver Cromwell developed the practice of dehumanizing his immediate neighbors.
    The Irish trade began when Jacob II sold 30 Irish prisoners to American slavery. His 1625 proclamation proclaimed the need to send Irish political prisoners abroad and sell them to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid-1600s, Irish slaves were the most sold in Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat was Irish slaves.
    Ireland soon became the largest source of human goods for English businessmen. Most of the first slaves of the New World were white. "I will not add anything else, except that in a similar way the British settled Australia.
    https://www.kramola.info/vesti/letopisi-proshlogo
    / belye-raby-ameriki-stoili-v-10-raz-deshevle-negr
    ov
    1. Rey_ka
      Rey_ka 13 February 2018 08: 17
      +5
      By the way, the attitude towards the Irish is well shown in the "Headless Horseman" by Mine Reed in the image of the Mustanger Maurice Gerald. I was small I could not understand everything for what they are so his like a white European?
    2. naidas
      naidas 16 February 2018 20: 24
      +1
      You can add labor camps in the United States since the 30s, how many mysteries have died so far.
  6. Alex_59
    Alex_59 13 February 2018 07: 22
    +7
    And moreover, no one explains that we needed the Lend-Lease mainly for the short period when we evacuated our enterprises to the east.
    Well, why lie? That always pins me when someone else's lie is refuted by their lies. This is strange.
    The main deliveries under the Lend-Lease program were in the 1943-1945 years. Well, what kind of evacuation? The opposite is true. The hardest 1941-1942 years we survived mainly due to our own forces.
    1. kvs207
      kvs207 13 February 2018 08: 14
      +4
      "Lend-Lease deliveries began on October 1, 1941 and ended according to various sources on September 8 or 20, 1945 (after the end of the war with Japan).

      In the first period of the US war, from October 1, 1941 to June 30, 1942, 545 aircraft, 783 tanks, i.e., Wikipedia, were sent to the USSR 3 odd times less than planned, as well as 16502 trucks, that is 5 odd times less than what was requested.
      The situation was further improved. "
      Yu. Veremeev.
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 13 February 2018 09: 16
      +4
      You have overlooked the phrase - WAS NEEDED ...
      Again, here you can argue a lot about the capabilities of the supplier countries themselves in 1941-1942!
      We say - we asked you, but you did not give us! They answer - your requests are overstated, we ourselves do not have so much! Etc...
      To ask less - you have to lose less! And we have lost too much ...

      Soviet automotive vehicles abandoned on the outskirts of a town in the USSR.
      Pictured are ZiS-5, GAZ-AA trucks, GAZ M-1 passenger car.
      1. yehat
        yehat 13 February 2018 17: 50
        +3
        Yes, the losses of equipment in the first 2 months were simply colossal.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 13 February 2018 22: 18
          +3
          And not only in the first 2 months. Lost equipment, weapons, warehouses! And the main territory with people, fields, settlements, factories ...
          And only a small part could make up on their own.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 14 February 2018 10: 27
          +1
          Quote: yehat
          Yes, the losses of equipment in the first 2 months were simply colossal.

          A few numbers.
          By September 01.09.1941, XNUMX, the losses of the Red Army amounted to:
          45 mm anti-tank guns - 7766 out of 14900 (as of June 22.06.41, XNUMX)
          76 mm division guns - 3094 out of 8513
          107 mm guns - 306 out of 862
          122 mm howitzers - 3512 of 8124
          122 mm guns - 503 out of 1255
          152 mm howitzers - 1579 of 3817
          152 mm howitzer guns - 1280 of 2603
          203 mm howitzers - 75 of 871
          280 mm mortars - 5 out of 72
          And this despite the fact that annual loss rates were 75% for 45 mm anti-tank guns, 68% for 76 mm guns, 60% for 122 mm and 152 mm howitzers and 152 mm howitzer guns.

          Data - from the "Artillery Supply in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-45."
    3. BAI
      BAI 13 February 2018 09: 23
      +3
      In principle, no one has yet denied this:
      The reliability of K. Simonov’s transmission of these conversations with Zhukov in 1965-1966 is confirmed by G. Zhukov’s statements recorded as a result of an interrogation by security agencies in 1963: “Now they say that the Allies never helped us ... But because it is undeniable that the Americans drove us so much material without which we could not form our reserves and could not continue the war ... We had no explosives, gunpowder. There was nothing to equip rifle cartridges. The Americans really helped us out with gunpowder, explosives. And how much they drove us to sheet steel! How could we quickly establish the production of tanks, if not for American help with steel? And now they present the matter so that we had all of this in abundance "{5}

      By the way, planes were made from American aluminum. Moreover, they scored as much as did jet planes after the war.
    4. Loess
      Loess 13 February 2018 09: 28
      +5
      What is the lie? Lend-Lease really was vital in the initial period of the war. And just at that time, Lend-Lease deliveries were several times less than necessary, in full accordance with the policies of our “partners”: the more Russians and Germans kill each other, the better for the West. And in 1943-1945, Lend-Lease deliveries no longer played a decisive role, on the part of the West it was just business, and the USSR took advantage of this to bring Victory closer. So there’s nothing to do with it. Absolutely.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 13 February 2018 11: 51
        +4
        Quote: Less
        And just at that time, Lend-Lease deliveries were several times less than necessary, in full accordance with the policies of our “partners”: the more Russians and Germans kill each other, the better for the West.

        Ahem ... for 1942, the main manufacturer of Lend-Lease equipment - the USA - should have:
        - To equip your army, deployed from 3 divisions into 60. And to do this with empty warehouses and arsenals - the FDR in 1941 scooped up US Army supplies for Britain. And it was necessary to do this until the middle of 1942 - because the ground forces were already needed for the future Torch.
        - Complete the rearmament of the British army - until December 1941, 50% of the production of the US military-industrial complex went to the Islands.
        - Complete the mobilization of industry and its transfer to military rails.
        - Put into production models of weapons that are adequate to World War II.
        In fact, the US military-industrial complex, while still not fully mobilized, supplied the armies of the two countries. And then a third joined them. Moreover, this third country did not have either a merchant or a navy for its supply. It did not even have port facilities - in 1942 the situation of 1916 was repeated when import cargo was stuck in the port and in the warehouses of Arkhangelsk, since the port simply could not handle them on time.
        For some reason, many people believe that in 1941-1942 the United States already had a military-industrial complex of the 1945 model and everything necessary for the delivery of cargo of the same year.
        Quote: Less
        And in 1943-1945, Lend-Lease deliveries no longer played a decisive role, on the part of the West it was just business, and the USSR took advantage of this to bring Victory closer.

        Gasoline. Copper. Aluminum. Gunpowder. All-wheel drive cars.
        1. Loess
          Loess 13 February 2018 12: 55
          +2
          Democratic Party Member Harry S. Truman, who became President of the United States in 1945, declared on 23 on June 1941: “If we see that Germany wins, we should help Russia, and if Russia will win, we should help Germany, and thus, let them kill as much as possible. "

          Quote: Alexey RA
          Ahem ... for the 1942 year, the main manufacturer of Lend-Lease equipment - the USA - should have: ...
          I did not say a word about what and who owed to whom. I said:
          Quote: Less
          Lend-Lease really was vital in the initial period of the war. And just at that time, Lend-Lease deliveries were several times less than necessary, in full accordance with the policies of our “partners”: the more Russians and Germans kill each other, the better for the West.
          Do you have doubts that in the initial period of the Second World War, the help of the Allies was more important for us than when a turning point occurred in the war?
          And about supplies to Britain. What caused such a rush in the rearmament of the British army until December 1941, given that the British army was seated on the islands?
          1. Loess
            Loess 13 February 2018 13: 03
            +2
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Quote: Less
            And in 1943-1945, Lend-Lease deliveries no longer played a decisive role, on the part of the West it was just business, and the USSR took advantage of this to bring Victory closer.
            Gasoline. Copper. Aluminum. Gunpowder. All-wheel drive cars.

            The opening of a second front would bring much more benefit to the Soviet Union, but we would hardly have paid in gold for fulfilling our allied obligations. And for the supply of Lend-Lease, we paid in gold and blood of our soldiers, saving the lives of our allies. From the point of view of the Allies, they did everything right. But this is from the point of view of the allies.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 13 February 2018 13: 20
              +3
              Quote: Less
              The opening of a second front would bring much more benefit to the Soviet Union, but we would hardly have paid in gold for fulfilling our allied obligations.

              So the second front was opened at the end of 1942. And then again - in 1943. And then again - in 1944. smile
              To carry out the “Overlord” in 1942 or in 1943 was extremely unrealistic. For the jambs of “Torcha” and the landings in Italy were rolled out only on those TVDs. In France, they would turn the landing into one big Omaha Beach.
              Quote: Less
              And for the supply of Lend-Lease, we paid in gold and blood of our soldiers, saving the lives of our allies.

              What gold did we pay for the land lease?
              The USSR and the Russian Federation paid only part of the amount for civilian goods left after the LL war — moreover, in 80-90 dollars at 40 prices. smile
              1. Loess
                Loess 13 February 2018 13: 35
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                The USSR and the Russian Federation paid only part of the amount for civilian goods left after the LL war - moreover, in 80-90-x dollars at 40-x prices

                This is the success of our diplomacy. wink
                Quote: Alexey RA
                So the second front was opened at the end of 1942. And then again - in 1943. And then again - in 1944.

                Those. did they open up to us as many as three “second” fronts? Well, think about it, well done ... 1941 and I asked for one, but the real one, and they opened three already ...
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 13 February 2018 14: 11
                  +2
                  Quote: Less
                  This is the success of our diplomacy.

                  This shows how important the United States was paying for LL. smile
                  Quote: Less
                  Those. did they open up to us as many as three “second” fronts? Well, think about it, well done ... 1941 and I asked for one, but the real one, and they opened three already ...

                  So for them they were real too.
                  Let me remind you once again - until 1939 there were 3 settlement divisions in the US Army, with half of the forces based outside the Metropolis. Half of the US ground forces in the interwar period are coastal defense (artillery, etc.). And now, in 2 years, 60 of these three divisions must be made. Moreover, units outside the Metropolis cannot be touched - they are kept in the Philippines and Hawaii.
                  For the “Torch,” the Yankees collected almost all the combat-ready formations of the United States. And they fought, yes ... in France they would be rolled out with such preparation into a thin pancake.
                  1. Loess
                    Loess 13 February 2018 14: 45
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Let me remind you once again - before the 1939 year, the US Army had 3 settlement divisions,

                    1939 year United Kingdom - 395 thousand people
                    1942 year
                    The armed forces of Great Britain and the United States were under deployment. The total number of personnel in the British Army, Navy and Air Force reached 1942 million people in the spring of 6,8, including 3 690 thousand people in the metropolis;
                    same year for the USA
                    US ground forces numbered 2 661 thousand people

                    I believe that the Allies had enough troops to land in Europe, there would be a desire ...
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Quote: Less
                    This is the success of our diplomacy.
                    This shows how important the United States was paying for LL.

                    So that money is not important for capitalists? laughing laughing laughing
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 13 February 2018 16: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: Less
                      The armed forces of Great Britain and the United States were under deployment. The total number of personnel in the British Army, Navy and Air Force reached 1942 million in the spring of 6,8, including 3 thousand in the metropolis;

                      At the deployment stage, it’s like our mechanized corps in the summer of 1941. On paper is a formidable force. In fact: there are people, there is partially technology, there is no training and coordination.
                      ... running fertilizer, bayonet grease. Imperial armored vehicles would pass through them and would not even notice that there was someone here. Walking.

                      Based on the results of the exercises of the end of 1941, the command of the American army concluded that they had personnel. But the army - no.
                      Quote: Less
                      I believe that the Allies had enough troops to land in Europe, there would be a desire ...

                      The problem is precisely that in Europe it was necessary to land. The landing itself is still half the trouble. But to maintain a foothold and establish a supply group sufficient to confront the enemy is much more difficult. Without solving the last task, there’s nothing even to take for the landing - there will be either Dieppe or Sommers.
                      The level of preparation for the landing in 1942 was well shown by the Gudalkanal. The Marines, in practice trained in the landing of the 30s, managed to divide the first and second echelons by an insurmountable amphibious assault shaft for amphibious landing equipment, fuel and other supplies, which occupied all the free areas of the landing zone. If the Japanese had at least some normal strength at the outskirts, even 1 DMP would wash themselves with blood right during the landing.
                      Quote: Less
                      So that money is not important for capitalists?

                      As you can see, they simply wrote off these 700 lemons. In view of inflation, we paid a couple of percent of the real amount.
            2. Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)
              Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg) 17 February 2018 11: 47
              0
              > And we paid for Lend-Lease deliveries in gold

              you are a dreamer. Have you tried to read books?
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 13 February 2018 13: 26
            +2
            Quote: Less
            And about supplies to Britain. What caused such a rush in the rearmament of the British army until December 1941, given that the British army was seated on the islands?

            Because the British Army had Africa and Southeast Asia. And to defeat at least one of these theater was impossible.
            Plus, the army in the Metropolis after the summer of 1940 was for the most part Muschschyn crowd with rifles ©, that is, British troops on other theater of operations actually lost their reserve.
            1. Loess
              Loess 13 February 2018 13: 54
              +1
              Well, yes, of course, millions of Reich soldiers and its allies marched to Africa, not a quarter of a million Italians and 100 thousand Germans. Of course, Africa is more important here. Africa is the key to victory. From Africa there is a direct road to Berlin. It just seems to me that if the USSR had been defeated and the Allies would not have kept Africa in any situation. And they hardly understood this.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 13 February 2018 14: 16
                +2
                Quote: Less
                It just seems to me that if the USSR had been defeated and the Allies would not have kept Africa in any situation. And they hardly understood this.

                Were the Allies defeated in Africa - and the USSR would have had to divert forces to strengthen the southern border. There, besides the Germans and Italians, the Turks would also catch up. And, by the way, it is not a fact that the regime of the Straits would have survived - with the "internal" axis for the Mediterranean Sea.
                Quote: Less
                Well, yes, of course, millions of Reich soldiers and his allies marched to Africa, not a quarter of a million Italians and 100 thousand Germans. Of course, Africa is more important here. Africa is the key to victory.

                And nowhere else but Africa could the British forces of the late 1941 model be used ... they could be rolled out on any other theater of operations in a week - as in Greece. smile
                1. Loess
                  Loess 13 February 2018 15: 01
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  . And, by the way, it is not a fact that the regime of the Straits would have survived - with the "internal" axis for the Mediterranean Sea.

                  I apologize, and what role did the “straits regime” play in 1941-42gg.?
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  And nowhere else besides Africa, British forces of the late 1941 model could be used ..

                  And here we return to the question of why it was necessary to rearm (not arm, but rearm) an army that could only fight in Africa, to the detriment of arms supplies for the army, which took the brunt of it?
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 13 February 2018 16: 52
                    +2
                    Quote: Less
                    I apologize, and what role did the “straits regime” play in 1941-42gg.?

                    Such that the Germans had to drag the ships of their Black Sea flotilla along the inland waterways. And to drop landing barges through the straits with the weapons removed - just like we do our own VSKR-ICE.
                    Those Italians bitterly regretted that their tankers sailed from Constanta without security. But they could not send Supermarine ships to the Black Sea.
                    Quote: Less
                    And here we return to the question of why it was necessary to rearm (not arm, but rearm) an army that could only fight in Africa, to the detriment of arms supplies for the army, which took the brunt of it?

                    To runway number 1 and the European camp of American forces survived until the Yankees move to liberate Europe. smile
                    And so that the Yankees had a place to land: it’s one thing to fight with Rommel, who already has one front in the rear and whose communications are under attack, and another with Rommel, who has the inland Italian Sea in the rear, well-established supply routes and possibly oil with BV.
                    Moreover, the army, which took the brunt of the attack, could hardly digest even the first deliveries:
                    The port could receive at the same time no more than five vessels with a draft of up to 18 feet, and only on Bakaritsa. The technical condition of the berths, the railway tracks on them and the means of mechanization was completely unsatisfactory. The Savings District could not accept ships with military cargo at all - it was not suitable for this, and the Left Bank section was used only as a coal base for bunkering ships. On the shore of the Gulf of Dvina there was a temporary pier for servicing the shipyard, which partially came into operation at the beginning of the war and the construction of which continued.
                    © Papanin
                    Deliveries via the Iranian route were likewise limited by the throughput of a single road. The normal supply route was broken only in 1943 - after the control of the route passed from lime to the Yankees.
          3. Amurets
            Amurets 13 February 2018 13: 35
            0
            Quote: Less
            And about supplies to Britain. What caused such a rush in the rearmament of the British army until December 1941, given that the British army was seated on the islands?

            The fact is that practically all the armaments of the British remained in Dunkirk in 1940, while the Germans terrorized the British and Americans with the Sea Lion plan.
            1. Loess
              Loess 13 February 2018 13: 42
              +2
              Operation Sea Lion lost relevance in June 1941.
      2. yehat
        yehat 13 February 2018 17: 55
        +4
        without the help of lend-lease, the Red Army was not able to break through in the style of blitzkrieg to Germany.
        there would be protracted and costly battles of very great blood. It is a fact.
        Transport, gunpowder, materials, radio equipment, tanks, armored cars and aircraft. It was a lot.
        The main thing is not to rush to extremes, concluding that without Lend-Lease with one left or vice versa they would definitely lose. Success 44 years by 40 percent thanks to lendlization.
  7. Rey_ka
    Rey_ka 13 February 2018 08: 14
    +1
    But the peaceful German (and not only) population practically did not suffer from Soviet troops.

    Strange historian? But what about millions of raped German women in a perverted way? And by the way, following the logic is is our generation. So our soldiers saved them from extinction by the influx of fresh Asian blood
    1. novel66
      novel66 13 February 2018 10: 46
      +1
      if perverted, blood flow will not work wink
  8. hohol95
    hohol95 13 February 2018 08: 25
    +1
    USSR and Russia at the slaughter. Human losses in the wars of the XX century
    Sokolov Boris Vadimovich

    Losses of Hungary

    The losses of the Hungarian army in World War II amounted to 110-120 thousand killed and died of wounds [965]. We will take the upper estimate of 120 thousand dead.

    According to the German command, The losses of the Hungarian ground forces and aircraft on the Eastern Front during the period from June 22, 1941 to April 6, 1943 amounted to 39 dead, 886 wounded and 55 missing. Of this number, from the beginning of the Soviet-German war until the end of 924, 28 people were killed, 618 1942 wounded, and only 6167 people went missing. Until the end of 25, Hungarian casualties rose to 813 dead, 3016 wounded and 1943 missing. Since in February - December 39 the Hungarian troops conducted only very limited military operations against the partisans, the increase in losses occurred mainly due to more complete losses in December 868 - January 55. By the end of 924 (no later German data) Hungarian casualties on the Eastern Front reached 42 killed, 361 wounded and 74 missing [056]. There is clearly a large underestimation of losses by missing persons (prisoners). The relatively small number of wounded compared to those killed (32 wounded per 097 killed), in all probability, is explained by the fact that a significant portion of the wounded were among the prisoners.

    ... The losses of Hungary in World War II amounted to, according to our estimates, 788,9 thousand people, including 179,4 thousand people who died military personnel. Of these, only 600 people died fighting on the side of the Red Army.
  9. Altona
    Altona 13 February 2018 08: 34
    +6
    One short letter from my grandfather shatters all this Western fiction about “Lend-Lease” and “terrible detachments”. About Lend-Lease. Grandfather wrote that they’ve been marching for two weeks now (without any Studebakers and jeeps). He wrote that they gave the medal "For Courage" for crossing the Dnieper (in Belarus). The presentation for the award says "for skillful and proactive actions at the crossing." Where are the squads, huh? And in the last battle, as I read, our advanced two divisions (about 20 thousand soldiers) entered the battle from the march with the 105 thousandth (!!) German group in the Shabun forest. Then help came, tanks and forced the Fritz to surrender, but his grandfather died. Who threw corpses over whom?
    1. Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)
      Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg) 17 February 2018 11: 53
      0
      One short letter from my grandfather shatters all this Western fiction about “Lend-Lease” and “terrible detachments”.

      you should go to science. For such methods, it will hurt you to beat, you will guess faster what the problem is
  10. Altona
    Altona 13 February 2018 08: 37
    +2
    Quote: Moore
    Yeah ... Mikhail Andreevich was able from childhood to instill hatred of social work and a living cause.

    ------------------------------
    Dumb prohibitions with bare propaganda do not work if the social degradation of those who have access to the distribution of material goods is not stopped. On the contrary, propaganda highlights its own flaws and creates hypocrisy. Actually, having paralyzed trade with the USSR “deficit”, they finished it off.
  11. parusnik
    parusnik 13 February 2018 08: 51
    +2
    Another favorite topic is that General Moroz helped the Russians ...
    .... Since olden times, since olden times Russians adopted climatic weapons .... laughing... Thanks for the article .. everything is correctly indicated ..
    1. novel66
      novel66 13 February 2018 10: 49
      +2
      moreover, everyone, it seems, knows about this weapon - but they forget how to follow us at once
  12. Loess
    Loess 13 February 2018 09: 20
    +2
    Highly. Correct. Article. Both from the historical point of view, and from the point of view of information war.
    1. novel66
      novel66 13 February 2018 10: 50
      +2
      obligate reading in schools from 5 to 11 class!
      1. Loess
        Loess 13 February 2018 10: 53
        +1
        And to force liberoids to learn by heart, so that "bounced off the teeth" laughing
        1. novel66
          novel66 13 February 2018 10: 54
          +1
          but not learned - flog! laughing
          1. Amurets
            Amurets 13 February 2018 11: 52
            0
            Quote: novel xnumx
            but not learned - flog!

            Well, do not transfer English practice to our soil. Europeans will not understand.
            "The most developed system of corporal punishment of children, which has become a tradition and preserved throughout the New Time, existed in the UK."
            https://topwar.ru/25466-angliya-klassicheskaya-st
            rana-telesnyh-nakazaniy.html
            “According to a survey among British teachers in 2008, more than 20 years after the prohibition of corporal punishment in public schools, it turned out that every fifth teacher would like to return the practice of using a cane in extreme cases. And many Britons, as shown by a government study , believe that the abolition of corporal punishment in schools has become a significant factor in the overall deterioration of children's behavior. "
            http://tour-vestnik.ru/istoriya-telesnykh-nakazan
            iy
            1. novel66
              novel66 13 February 2018 11: 56
              +1
              whoo! while flogged - there was an empire - but how they stopped ...
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 13 February 2018 21: 27
            +1
            For the sake of decency, for the sake of reference, referred to the message of the Soviet government in Pravda of 11 on June 1944. We write articles, we don’t know the sources ... "Military historian" - pah ...
  13. Radikal
    Radikal 13 February 2018 10: 44
    +3
    Quote: BLOND

    the plan is known
    therefore, counteraction should begin with the tightening of legislation

    Who do you think will do it - those who, in fact, for more than 20 years have been implementing this plan on our territory? What are you speaking about? Look at education programs, history books, and the education system itself! Watch TV shows, the same channel (God forgive me) "Culture"! And much more... . It’s all from someone’s silent, and not only “blessings” occur? It got to the point that the Guarantor himself in such a peppy, so cheerful (like a joke of humor) voice from the TV screen tells his citizens that US CIA officers officially worked at nuclear facilities and surrounded by Chubais! So what? Immediately the question is, who allowed this? With whom did all this happen, with whose permission, and from whom should I ask? Did someone ask him this question? And you say .... Remove the "colored" glasses - maybe you will see everything differently! sad
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 13 February 2018 13: 02
      0
      Quote: Radikal
      Who do you think will do it - those who, in fact, for more than 20 years have been implementing this plan on our territory?

      Probably earlier. Without this plan, the events of 1991 would not have occurred. All this leapfrog began after the death of Brezhnev, during the "Five Years of a Magnificent Funeral." I mean the actual implementation of the "Dulles Plan."
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 14 February 2018 00: 54
        +1
        All this leapfrog began after the death of Brezhnev, during the "Five Years of a Magnificent Funeral." I mean the actual implementation of the "Dulles Plan." - Amur

        It all started with the seizure of power by Khrushchev. It was then that the Stalinist principles of building socialism departed, the power "elite" was taken out of control of the law and state security services, economic science was replaced by the voluntarism of a political leader who surprised the country by insisting on the adoption of the utopian Third Program of the CPSU with its promise to build in the USSR by 1980 communism.
        As W. Churchill said at his 90th birthday, when someone offered a toast to him as the most ardent enemy of Russia: “Unfortunately, there is a person who harmed the Land of Soviets 1000 times more than I did. This is Nikita Khrushchev. Let's pat him! .. "
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 14 February 2018 13: 03
          +2
          And all honest Leninists / Stalinists did not stop him. For some reason ... Only in the 1964 year ... But his work continued, huh? And why the "honest" did not stop again? Where did the "dictatorship of the proletariat" look at the most conscious class in history? To the bottom of the glass?
  14. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 13 February 2018 11: 40
    +4
    But they even forget to mention that we paid them gold for this help from the Allies.

    Lend-lease during the war was free. Only civilian goods that were not returned after the end of the war were subject to payment (after the war).
    The problem is that in parallel with the LL of the USSR, he conducted the procurement of goods that were not included in the LL list. And they just paid for them in gold. And delivered purchased by the same routes.
    And moreover, no one explains that we needed the Lend-Lease mainly for the short period when we evacuated our enterprises to the east.

    Well, yes, yes ... that is probably why in 1944 the proportion of Lend-Lease gunpowders was as much as 44% (for some components for the production of LL powders it was 100%). And our Air Force got off the Lend-Lease high-octane needle only after the war ended. Moreover, the imported high-octane was used not only in its pure form, but also in a mixture with domestic gasoline - these mixtures were recorded in the production statistics in the column “produced in the USSR” in production statistics.
    The share of Lend-Lease aluminum is 55% of the total amount of aluminum produced and obtained by the USSR. These deliveries allowed us to start moving away from delta wood and other wood in aircraft construction since 1943.
    The share of Lend-Lease copper is 45% of the total production and supplies to the USSR. By the way, these deliveries of copper finally made it possible to establish the mass production of 85-mm rounds and switch from F-34 to ZIS-S-53 and D-5T. And Lend-Lease machines for processing shoulder straps of towers with a diameter of more than 1500 mm made it possible to make a tower into which these guns got up. In the USSR itself, after the evacuation of such machines, 2 remained, and one of them was engaged in the production of heavy tanks.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 13 February 2018 12: 28
      +1
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Moreover, the imported high-octane was used not only in its pure form, but also in a mixture with domestic gasoline - these mixtures were recorded in the production statistics in the column “produced in the USSR” in production statistics.

      Here it is necessary to clarify, both additives and high-octane components, isooctane and isopentane, which were added to domestic gasoline, were supplied. As well as equipment for the production of GMC diesel engines (YaMZ-204 and YaMZ-206 and Glisson machines for the automotive industry, without which it was impossible to establish the production of spiral gearboxes for driving axles of cross-country vehicles.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 14 February 2018 13: 05
        +2
        And 15 million more shoes! On a double sole !!! And flying jackets - oh ... I had such ... quality - shine!
    2. vvvjak
      vvvjak 13 February 2018 14: 31
      +5
      as much as you can about the same thing. Where did you see the free land lease? Not paid only for what was returned back after the war. Moreover, there are recollections of witnesses as the Americans checked the completeness of the returned “Students” before each key, so that later they could, with a clear conscience, launch them for scrap. It has already been said many times that Lend-Lease deliveries accounted for 10% of all products produced by the USSR for the front during the war. YES, he reduced the time of the war, maybe he saved several million lives of our citizens (for which many thanks to the Americans), but did not make a decisive contribution to our victory. General Vlasov (it is difficult to suspect him in pro-Soviet moods) recalled how in the 2nd shock army from Lend-Lease there was only one staff phone.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 13 February 2018 17: 08
        +3
        Quote: vvvjak
        as much as you can about the same thing. Where did you see the free land lease?

        We read carefully:
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Lend-Lease during the war was free.

        Quote: vvvjak
        It has already been said many times that Lend-Lease deliveries accounted for 10% of all the production of the USSR for the front during the war.

        On average in a hospital, including a morgue. ©
        If we compare by positions, then for LL tanks it gave 12,3% of the total number produced / delivered to the USSR in 1941-1945, for BTR - 100%, for ZSU - 100%, for airplanes - 13% (although the same mtap almost completely rearmament on LL equipment, and there were a lot of foreign cars in DA). For ZA - 21%, for ships and boats of special construction for the Navy - 22,4%. For cars - 64%. But there were still raw materials and machine tools, analogues of which in the USSR often simply did not exist.
        In addition, do not forget one thing: when the USSR tries to replace its production with LL production, the production of other units will immediately fall in flames. If we instead of the “students” decide to start production of the all-wheel drive GAZ-63 of 1939, then goodbye to the SU-76 of the GAZ plant. If we refuse high-octane, then ... that’s all - we can only hope that NKTP will be able to establish production of the B-78.
        Quote: vvvjak
        General Vlasov (it is difficult to suspect him in pro-Soviet moods) recalled how in the 2nd shock army from Lend-Lease there was only one staff phone.

        Already in 1941, tank battalions on LL equipment fought at the front. And by 1945 in the Red Army there were entire corps on "foreign cars" - the "emchi" took Berlin, LL BTR saved the anti-tank. the Germans who got in the way of the Germans tearing from the Halbe pot, the night "Bostons" with domestic "gneisses" blocked Breslau from the air.
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak 14 February 2018 11: 24
          +3
          Forgot about 100% of the supply of steam engines Maybe for the balance list how much production and money the Americans delivered to Germany (even after the official declaration of war)?
          1. naidas
            naidas 16 February 2018 20: 55
            0
            and another 257 buttons
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 13 February 2018 21: 31
        +2
        vvvjak Ignorance! Read the Soviet newspaper Pravda from 11 on June 1944. By the way, this source in the USSR was not accepted. But this is an official document.
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak 14 February 2018 09: 18
          +3
          Yeah let's enlighten me ignoramus. Tell us about the "Ponte" of Stalin, who did not want to surrender Leningrad from Stalingrad just because of the name, ditching a cloud of people, about the 3 destroyed German tanks near Prokhorovka, about the landing of allies in Sicily because of which Hitler lost on the Kursk Bulge. But it’s better that Hitler had to defeat the USSR by freeing the world from Stalin’s “bloody tyrant”, and the people would sooner or later be freed by the Americans (quoted by Zubov, prohessor). And other "holy democratic" postulates. Open my eyes to the unlucky one that my grandfather (partisans in the Belarusian forests) would not have lived a single day without Lend-Lease and American help.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 14 February 2018 19: 19
            0
            I just advised you to read the material in Pravda authorized by your beloved Stalin. Have you read already, of course?
            1. vvvjak
              vvvjak 15 February 2018 08: 21
              +3
              And here is the list of Lend-Lease products supplied in the Pravda newspaper. Did I say that there was no Lend-Lease? If you do not understand what I wanted to say, I can give you a household example. You are "eleven" years collecting money for a car, raised $ 10. You can buy a car for this money, but you liked the car for 000 (it breaks less, drives faster, etc.). The missing money was borrowed from a neighbor (and paid back sooner or later). Now is it right for the rest of my life to listen to reproaches from my neighbor that the car was bought with his money, that if it weren’t for it, then you didn’t have a car at all, etc.? Although formally he is right in something
  15. Des10
    Des10 13 February 2018 12: 15
    +2
    Lend-lease really helped, because a good spoon for dinner. And now nobody knows the nomenclature of deliveries. A field worker - for signalmen --- all of them, and boots? After all, they changed their standards for wires - in order to produce cable products according to our requests (!), And felt boots - they found emigrants (whites), because they know the technology of felting them ...
    For help - thank them very much.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 13 February 2018 21: 33
      +2
      A lot of the nomenclature in the GOVERNMENT MESSAGE from June 11 to 1944 of the year ... they simply like to ask us unknowingly ...
  16. Lexus
    Lexus 13 February 2018 12: 52
    +2
    The underestimation by the collective West of the role of the Soviet people in defeating the fascists, alas, finds kindred responses in modern Russian politics. Retouching the sickle and hammer on the Banner of Victory is an example of this.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. shubin
    shubin 13 February 2018 13: 24
    +2
    Lendlis should be treated more objectively. During the war years, the Soviet automobile industry produced about 260 thousand units of automotive equipment, more than 400 thousand units, almost two thirds, were supplied by lend-lease. There would be no studentbackers
    “Katyusha”, because at the beginning of the war the production of three-axle cars was discontinued. Collected throughout the Union, scored only 200 pieces. so, for automotive technology, the help was palpable.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 13 February 2018 17: 12
      +1
      Quote: shubin
      Without Studebaker, there would be no Katyusha, because at the beginning of the war the production of three-axle cars was discontinued.

      In principle, artillery towers could be used as the BM-13 base. But then artillery remains without traction.
      Or SU-76. But then the release of these extremely necessary assault SAUs drops - and the infantry again will have to help the gunners manually drag the ZIS-3 for direct fire, losing the calculation and the data from enemy fire.
      1. naidas
        naidas 16 February 2018 20: 54
        +1
        Gunpowder for Katyush shells is also American.
  19. Radikal
    Radikal 13 February 2018 14: 09
    +1
    Quote: Amurets
    Quote: Radikal
    Who do you think will do it - those who, in fact, for more than 20 years have been implementing this plan on our territory?

    Probably earlier. Without this plan, the events of 1991 would not have occurred. All this leapfrog began after the death of Brezhnev, during the "Five Years of a Magnificent Funeral." I mean the actual implementation of the "Dulles Plan."

    I took the nearest past period, and so - naturally it began to be embodied from the moment of its adoption! hi
  20. parma
    parma 13 February 2018 15: 05
    0
    after the words about gold and Lend-Lease did not read .... Yes, we paid ... But in blood, the unhistorical damn ...
  21. alatanas
    alatanas 13 February 2018 16: 00
    +1
    Everyone stood against us under the German banners: Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Poles, Spaniards, Italians, Danes, Dutch, Croats, Bulgarians, Danes, Finns, Romanians and so on

    Where, and on which front?
    1. pytar
      pytar 13 February 2018 17: 23
      +2
      Where, and on which front?

      Bulgarians did not fight against the USSR. From the word at all. Between Bulgaria and the USSR until 05.09.1944, normal diplomatic relations were maintained. For the difference from other European countries, there were not even volunteers from Bulgaria on the Eastern Front. Therefore, the captured Bulgarians did not enter the USSR. But together with the Red Army after 09 on September 44, 3 Bulgarian armies fought against the Wehrmacht, with the total composition of half a million soldiers. 1-BGA (120 thousand.) Was part of the III-Ukrainian Front under the command of Marshal Tolbukhin. The military "historian, expert and publicist" Nikolai Adamov for some reason does not know ... So, there are certain doubts about the ego of expertise. bully
      1. yehat
        yehat 13 February 2018 18: 02
        0
        Well, why distort? Bulgarians fought! it wasn’t mass, but they fought,
        especially on the Black Sea - aviation and fleet forces.
        served a little in the Wehrmacht
        1. pytar
          pytar 13 February 2018 21: 35
          +2
          Bulgarians fought! it was not of a mass nature, but they fought, especially on the Black Sea - aviation and fleet forces. served a little in the Wehrmacht

          Can you give specific information? Where exactly? How much loss?
          How many Bulgarians served in the Wehrmacht? What date? How did you get there?
          Otherwise, your hardening looks unfounded.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 13 February 2018 22: 34
            0
            Do you want songs - I have them ...
            Article about Bulgarian National Socialists - Part 3
            Right fight in the Balkans. Bulgaria.
            Hristo Rodolyubov
            Rematch, # 2, 2004

            The government finally stopped the persecution of the Nazis and even released part of the arrested comrades from prison. The commanders of the military and police units began to form separate units from the fighters - national socialists, who had best established themselves in battles with partisans. Many Nazis also joined the composition of the national gendarmerie created in early 1944 specifically for the struggle against the Communists. At the end of 1943, several hundred Bulgarian volunteers finally appeared in the SS troops on the Eastern Front.
            1. pytar
              pytar 13 February 2018 23: 02
              +3
              В end of 1943 several hundred Bulgarian volunteers finally appeared in the SS troops on the Eastern Front.

              One crazy line and no evidence. laughing Actually the unknown author self-taught Hristo Rodolyubov, confuses things. More precisely, he mixes them, perhaps intentionally. Yes, and apparently he did not read the serious Russian investigators. And so, in fact:
              After Tsar Boris categorically refuses Hitler to send Bulgarian soldiers to the East, he still agrees to recruit volunteers. 72 people gathered from all over Bulgaria, with half of them gypsies. Realizing what the convocation was about, they quickly went home. laughing This is in 1943
              After September 1944 Bulgaria goes to war with Nazi Germany and the Bulgarian armies launch an offensive against the Wehrmacht. Himler issues an order for the formation of the so-called Waffen-Grenadier Regiment der SS (bulgarisches No. 1). This is at the end of 1944 and not at the end of 1943, as Mr. H.R. writes! At a time when Bulgaria and Germany are at war! It is formed forcibly on the territory of Germany and Austria. 500-700 are part of the ego ?! people: ethnic Bulgarians with German and Austrian citizenship, deserters from the Bulgarian army, 150 students from colleges in Germany and Austria, including 12 nurses from a medical college in Vienna. They did not differ in anything and even fought among themselves. Half deserted in the first months.
              Here are the facts, and what he wrote "Hristo Rodolyubov" is called a fake. laughing
              1. Crane operator Nahamkinson
                Crane operator Nahamkinson 13 February 2018 23: 14
                +2
                Just next time,
                do not save Bulgaria.
                And that’s it. There will be no Bulgaria.
                And there will be a Turkish province.
                1. pytar
                  pytar 13 February 2018 23: 25
                  +4
                  Just next time, don’t save Bulgaria. And that’s it. There will be no Bulgaria. And there will be a Turkish province.

                  Your desires will not come true. negative No way. And we always know that such discharges are constantly underway, such as carbon copies on forums. wink
                  1. pilot69
                    pilot69 14 February 2018 10: 38
                    +6
                    Do not pay attention to such statements, in recent years there have been many such characters. They forgot how since 1991 our Russian politicians rushed to kiss the West, having abandoned the same Bulgaria, Cuba, Vietnam, and many others.
                    According to the logic of such screamers, if you left your wife (for example), this does not mean at all that she should stop loving you, cook food and fulfill her conjugal duty. No, well, why - I threw it away.
                    Last year I was resting with you, the attitude of ordinary Bulgarians is super drinks
                    1. pytar
                      pytar 14 February 2018 10: 47
                      +3
                      Thanks pilot69! good
                      Russians and Bulgarians brothers! No propaganda is able to set our peoples against one another! Genetic memory is stronger!
                      1. pilot69
                        pilot69 14 February 2018 11: 04
                        +5
                        Thats exactly what I mean hi You should never confuse politicians and ordinary people, I don’t do that myself and I don’t give my children.
                        "There is such a profession, son - Wed ... h on the Internet to breed" laughing
                    2. pytar
                      pytar 14 February 2018 13: 50
                      +2
                      There is such a profession, son - Wed ... h on the Internet to breed

                      There is such a thing ... And probably we are talking about a deliberate disinformation campaign led by certain forces, interested in inciting ethnic hatred between the nearest nations! By the bias of comments, you can identify who these little people are. I think VO should take measures to intersect such actions! hi
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 13 February 2018 23: 28
                +1
                And why did you then declare war on the United States?
                1. pytar
                  pytar 14 February 2018 00: 12
                  +3
                  And why did you then declare war on the United States?

                  So that they do not force us to participate in the war against the USSR. Hitler did not manage to send Russophilian war Bulgarians against the USSR. Tsar Boris directly told him that "if you send the Bulgarian army on the Eastern Front, it will immediately go over to the Russian side with brass music". Boris agreed to declare war on the Anglo-Saxons at least. Bulgaria was forced into an alliance with Germany. I had to choose a lesser evil. Bulgaria is the only member country of the Hitler Pact that did not take part in the war against the USSR.
              3. yehat
                yehat 14 February 2018 11: 29
                +1
                Well, you yourself here admitted that there was little participation.
                and as for actions on the Black Sea - there are a bunch of official reports of skirmishes,
                I see no reason to defy
                1. pytar
                  pytar 14 February 2018 13: 47
                  0
                  Well, you yourself here admitted that there was little participation.

                  Against the backdrop of 1,5 million Soviet citizens participating in various formations in the Wehrmacht, 500 ethnic Bulgarians / half of them with German citizenship / mean nothing. By your logic, should Russia be included in those who fought against the USSR? Moreover, this handful of strange people were in the territory of Hungary and Austria. They did not participate in any serous hassles. And this is during the time when the 1-BG army participated together and as part of the Soviet Army in the epic battle of Ballaton! In total, almost half a million of our soldiers fought against the Wehrmacht! 32 thousand. loss of ours! The Germans lost in battles with the Bulgarian army about 80 thousand. dead and wounded! A huge number of Bulgarian soldiers and officers awarded Soviet orders! GlavKom BGA Gen. Vladimir Stoychev participant in the Victory Parade, on Red Square! In fact, Bulgaria participated on the Eastern Front, but as an ally of the USSR! In the Wehrmacht there were individuals and groups of people from very exotic nations! Do you write down these countries in the “fighters against the USSR”? Where is your logic?
                  and as for actions on the Black Sea - there are a bunch of official reports of skirmishes,

                  Heap ??? Can you tell in more detail? Where, in what territorial waters, how much loss on both sides, etc.?
                  I see no reason to defy

                  I see no reason in your utterances, except to provoke!
                  1. yehat
                    yehat 14 February 2018 14: 18
                    0
                    I think this link is enough
                    https://pogo-on-air.livejournal.com/1165199.html
                    but add more.
                    submarine C34 died in Bulgarian mines
                    Щ-209 On March 8, 42, she was attacked by Bulgarian aircraft at Cape Shabler
                    1. pytar
                      pytar 14 February 2018 15: 15
                      +1
                      I think this link is enough https://pogo-on-air.livejournal.com/1165199.html but I’ll add more. Submarine 34 died on Bulgarian mines n-209 8 on March 42 was attacked by Bulgarian aviation at Cape Shabler

                      Your knowledge, as I see it, is limited to livejournal links, where topics are written off by most consumers. They are often far from the serious historical sciences. laughing Moreover, it seems you yourself do not read them in detail! wink
                      Look at the map where is Cape Shabla / not Shabler /? In the bulg. ter-water. Soviet submarines illegally carried weapons and Bulgarian pro-communist saboteurs. Moreover, Bulgaria and the USSR supported the norms. diplomatic relations! In Bulgaria itself at that time there was a bloody civil war between the communist partisans and the monarchist government. By the way, this permanent intra-Bulgarian confrontation began even with the revolt of the left in 1923. Then approx. 40 000 Bulgarians. I wonder how the authorities should have reacted to the penetration of Soviet submarines into the water base?
                      By the way, there is an interesting passage in the article that you did not pay attention to ...
                      Bulgaria signed 1 on March 1941. Tripartite Pact. At the same time, she set the condition that her army will not be directly involved in hostilities

                      This is during the operation of the nonaggression pact between the USSR and Germany. As a matter of fact, Bulgaria, having entered into a pact, continued to observe the neutrality of the USSR for the entire war.
                      Documented five cases combat contact of Bulgarian aircraft with Soviet submarines in the summer and autumn of 1941

                      Everything written in the article refers to the Bulgarian territorial waters.
                      Whole 5 !!! By your logic, the Red Army should be written down to those who fought against the USSR, since the list struck by his own by mistake, is many times more!
                      .. Bulgarian transport "Varna" with a load of ammunition was sunk 20 August 1943 g. directly near the Crimea.

                      The author “forgot” to mention that transport ship Varna belonged to a private company and was leased to the Germans. It has nothing to do with the Bulgarian Navy.
                      Bulgarian ambulance train at the Belarusian station ..

                      We are talking about a sanitary train with 27 nurses and several doctors sent along the line Swiss Red Cross. According to international laws, the Red Cross had the right to send its missions along the front side of the wallpaper and even cross the ego. If memory does not fail me, the Red Cross sent 4 trains, one of which is “Bulgarian”. From the USSR, requests for dispatch were received.
                      Yes, in general, each line in this article contains inaccuracies and silences that distort the essence of the matter. Obviously, the author wanted to direct readers to a certain thought and selected facts torn out in the context of events. It is not my business to give you advice, but ... trying to "prove" what is not there, you are not exhibiting in the best way ... No.
                      1. pytar
                        pytar 14 February 2018 15: 28
                        +1
                        e.g.:
                        From the side of the USSR, requests for dispatch NOT acted.
                      2. yehat
                        yehat 14 February 2018 15: 48
                        0
                        the article is odious, but there is something truthful in it.
                        but,
                        trying to "prove" that there is no

                        did not understand what is not? The Bulgarians did not fight in the Black Sea?
                        or do you consider the bombing neutrality?
                        or was German aircraft not based in Bulgaria that attacked ships and planes?
                        or are the Saudis, having hired some kind of tricksters who attacked a neighboring country, are not fighting this country?
                    2. pytar
                      pytar 14 February 2018 16: 06
                      0
                      the article is odious, but there is something truthful in it.

                      And I about ... laughing It is true, but it is inserted in such a way that it goes against the essence of the situation. By the way, there are obvious falsifications with headings under the pictures in "your" article. Readers expose them in the comments below. You obviously have not read them. bully

                      The Bulgarians did not fight in the Black Sea? Or do you consider the bombing neutrality?

                      Do not fight. Neutrality was observed until September 1944. Veli had a normal border service, which included the protection of territorial waters.
                      After September 44, Bulgaria really fought even with all its armed forces, but together with the USSR against Germany!

                      or was German aircraft not based in Bulgaria that attacked ships and planes?

                      German aviation fought against the USSR. Bulgarian did not fight. Do you feel the difference? How many Bulgarian planes were shot down by the Red Army? No one. How many captured Bulgarian military personnel were captured by the USSR? No one.

                      or are the Saudis, having hired some kind of tricksters who attacked a neighboring country, are not fighting this country?

                      Well, in such a way of "deliberation" we get to that Korean, who, having crossed half the world, ended up in Germany! Not knowing what to do with him, the Germans credited the ego to a unit in the rear. There is such a curious case! Record Korea as a participant in the war against the USSR? Which of Korea is more accurate ???lol
                      1. yehat
                        yehat 14 February 2018 16: 12
                        0
                        Do you know what was the main reason for the Soviet attack on Finland?
                        Finns also observed neutrality, but as a result of this neutrality more than 4 people died in 200 years, they constantly caught the introduction of English agents.
                        here the Bulgarians had the same “neutrality”, which in reality was just a deft position. Aircraft and ships based in Bulgaria caused real harm, including over territorial waters. The same Bulgaria essentially protected Ploiesti from air raids.
                      2. pytar
                        pytar 14 February 2018 17: 45
                        0
                        yehat
                        .... was the main reason for the Soviet attack on Finland? The Finns also maintained a type of neutrality, but as a result of this neutrality more than 4 people died in the 200 of the year, they constantly caught .....

                        As the main reason for the Soviet attack on Finland, Russian historians indicate the need to remove the border from Leningrad and create the best military-strategic setting around the Gulf of Finland. Therefore, at first, Stalin proposed finals, an exchange of territories. At the same time, the USSR gave in Karelia more sq. Km. than he took.
                        here the Bulgarians had the same “neutrality”, which in reality was just a deft position. Aircraft and ships based in Bulgaria caused real harm, including over territorial waters. The same Bulgaria essentially protected Ploiesti from air raids.

                        Right! Everyone occupied at the same time with “Dexterity of position” and in view of the specific situation in which they were! As the USSR did, concluding a non-aggression pact with Germany in 1939.
                        Finding themselves in a state of actual occupation, Bulgaria tried to engage as low as possible in the German plans. The Bulgarians had a “choice” between different types of evil. Choose the smallest. No soldiers were sent against the USSR. But together with the Red Army they fought against the Germans. And they fought quite well by the way. As a result of WWII, Bulgaria did NOT have an obligation to pay indemnities to the Soviet Union.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 13 February 2018 21: 36
        +4
        For some reason, the military "historian, expert and publicist" Nikolai Adamov does not know ...

        He's lying about the Inquisition! Let Protopope Habakkuk read ...
        1. pilot69
          pilot69 14 February 2018 14: 18
          0
          And just business, open the archives of the Second World War period concerning Lend-Lease (at least) and the entire short-lived. And all questions will disappear. Those who wish can sit and with a calculator calculate the "percentage" of the contribution to the point of insanity.
          True, many "witnesses and eyewitnesses" will remain without food, but this is another story ..
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 14 February 2018 19: 31
            +1
            Everything was discovered back in the 1944 year. 11 of June in a Message to Pravda. About what happened after, yes, no data. The final payment is attributed to 2030 year. Then, probably, the archives will be opened. Indeed, much of the Great Patriotic War is closed until the 2045 year. You can read Steel’s correspondence with Churchill, but you cannot read transcripts of his conversations with Metropolitan Alexy. Why? There are probably reasons. What about Hitler’s archive? He is with us! Translate, declassify ... But ... no! Maybe then it will be revealed that there was never “Soviet Russia" there either?
  22. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 13 February 2018 16: 18
    +3
    I’m watching the British channel History, the series “Price of the Empire” - it would seem to be extremely biased to present WWII history.
    Oddly enough - of course, exaggerating some British victories and sparingly about the defeats (Poland, Dunkirk, Norway, Greece, Crete, Libya ...) they admit that in addition to the 151 German divisions, about 49 different national divisions "united by the Nazis" participated in the attack on the USSR of Europe. "
    According to their version, it’s not “general frost” at all, they stopped the attack on Moscow - it’s a debauchery, well, these cliches go through many German sources, the authors of the film decided on their idea of ​​the war in the USSR.
    There are few domestic sources translated into English about the war in the USSR - this needs to be done - to bring the real picture.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 13 February 2018 21: 37
      +2
      Take a look at the website of the publishing house British Osprey - books about WWII by Russian authors ... You will be surprised by the result.
    2. yehat
      yehat 14 February 2018 14: 29
      0
      there is one more plus sign - besides the troops, there were still security forces and the police, and not all of the Germans were also. As for the tanks of the Wehrmacht. Officially voiced numbers from 3.5 thousand to 5 - these are mainly linear tanks in tank divisions. But, suddenly, if you count the others - engineering, reconnaissance, reserve, tank destroyers, self-propelled guns, etc., it turns out already (here the estimates vary) from 8.5 to 11 thousand.
      And this is already comparable to the real share of the general forces of the Red Army, which far from all were in the West, which included about 30 thousand, but of which in fact there were about half incompetent - lack of spare parts, old and worn out, cannibalism, lack of serviceability, poor care or its absence at all, conservation, etc.,
      Thus, in the Western Military District, the Soviet tank units did not at all possess either a numerical superiority or a qualitative one (the share of t34 and kv-1 did not compensate for the large concessions in the performance characteristics of light tanks), the Soviet units had big problems with communications, logistics, structure, and supply nomenclature.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 14 February 2018 19: 36
        0
        Do not count anything. Everything is counted for a long time. And the engineering tanks didn’t fight directly and there were very few of them. A self-propelled guns recorded in the total purely armored objects. On the web there is my book "Tanks of Total Wars" - there are all the numbers there. And how many were and how many were knocked down over the years! We have them with us and according to the Sovinformburo and officially declassified data. So that would be both a numerical superiority and a qualitative one. There was nothing else. Crazy, for example.
  23. Conserp
    Conserp 13 February 2018 16: 41
    +1
    Britain, France were terribly afraid of Hitler's expansion to the west.
    the complete and cowardly capitulation of Western democracies to brute force occurred. The Munich Agreement of 1938

    Mr. historian from the very first lines began to engage in falsification of history in order to whitewash the role of the West in unleashing WWII.

    The facts are known: Hitler was deliberately brought to power and armed. Until the end of 1939, no one in France and Britain was afraid of Hitler - not to mention 1938, when the West was building up the military potential at a rapid pace to the Germans.
    1. Conserp
      Conserp 13 February 2018 16: 57
      +2
      Seriously believe (even without being a historian) that for 6 years, systematically allowing Germany to increase the army many times over, having canceled all restrictions, support the running-in of this army in Spain, then donate the entire military-industrial complex of the former Austria-Hungary, then betray the ally-Poland and do nothing for several months (possessing many times greater strength), all this time delivering strategic materials is possible due to some kind of "Hitler's fear" - you need to be sick to the head.
      1. yehat
        yehat 14 February 2018 11: 45
        +1
        you distort a little.
        the Allies didn’t even know how much Germany prepared its landsfer to become a Wehrmacht. Germans took conspiracy seriously
        1. Conserp
          Conserp 14 February 2018 16: 13
          0
          Yes Yes. When in 1935 the Reichswehr exceeded Versailles restrictions 3 times - no one noticed.

          When in the same 1935 Hitler introduced a very conspiratorial general military duty, after which the army swelled up to almost a million snouts - no one noticed anything either.

          The Germans approached conspiracy so well that the British even allowed them to quietly build deeply conspired battleships.

          What nonsense, by golly.
          1. yehat
            yehat 14 February 2018 17: 04
            0
            it’s not about the 35th year, but how from a completely humiliated country, which had 100 thousand essentially territorial militia, “suddenly” in the 35th year a real large army appeared

            But how Germany "suddenly" was able to increase the Reichswehr by 3 times, did not you think?
            Where did the trained soldiers come from?
            And dual-use aircraft (non-111, Do-17 and others)?
            And how did Germany, unlike its neighbors, begin to create tanks devoid of popular childhood diseases?
            And where in Germany did the military-industrial complex suddenly get hundreds of engineers who had already enlightened on their topics?
            By the way, not everything is going smoothly about the ships either - many exceeded the contractual displacement.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 15 February 2018 11: 47
              0
              Quote: yehat
              But how Germany "suddenly" was able to increase the Reichswehr by 3 times, did not you think?
              Where did the trained soldiers come from?

              So the "three-way" system was laid by the Sect in the very beginning of the 20s.
              And with the reserve in the Reichswehr, in general, everything was interesting.
              The abolition of conscription by the Versailles Agreement and its limitations, which allowed Germany to have a small army with long service lives, meant that with each new year the number of trained men fit for military service and available as a reserve of men would decrease. If the Reichswehr had a 1932-year service life by 100, among Germans between the ages of twenty and thirty-five, only 000 would have received military training - and these would have little practical skills and knowledge in the field of aviation, tanks, heavy artillery, etc.
              © Corum J. S. Blitzkrieg Roots: Hans von Sect and German War Reform
              The Germans complied with these restrictions for a couple of years - and then scored on them:
              Although the Reichswehr servicemen were supposed to serve for twelve years, and officers for twenty-five, a program was developed for the regular dismissal of soldiers and officers until they reach their maximum service lives. This helped the Reichswehr build up a stock of well-trained soldiers and officers whose reliability was undeniable. By 1926, the percentage of layoffs of rank-and-file personnel increased from 13 to 25. Officers were also allowed to leave the service and go to the reserve.

              And nothing - the guarantor countries ate that, too.
              Quote: yehat
              And how did Germany, unlike its neighbors, begin to create tanks devoid of popular childhood diseases?

              Ahem ... German tanks were just fine with childhood illnesses - the Anschluss and the trip to Vienna Guderian were an example. It’s another matter that the factories didn’t hammer in to finalize the tanks based on their operational experience in units — like some people’s.
    2. yehat
      yehat 14 February 2018 14: 31
      0
      and again you go too far. The Munich conspiracy provoked quite a few protests throughout Europe.
      1. Conserp
        Conserp 14 February 2018 16: 54
        0
        AND? Does it change anything?
  24. yehat
    yehat 13 February 2018 17: 48
    +2
    in the article it was said very lubricated about the ratio of losses, I want to tell how the calculations turned into a ratio of 1: 3 using the example of the Kiev boiler in 41 years. The Germans then surrounded a large number of troops of the Red Army.
    and it was declared that the Germans lost 110 thousand, the Red Army lost about 700 thousand.
    but there is one caveat - in the Kiev garrison there were more than 1 thousand unarmed civilians recruited to work for the army. If you take them away, you get approximately equal losses, which corresponds to reality.
    Of course, there are battles where the Red Army lost much more - Rzhev, a counter-offensive near Moscow, many border battles, but there was no such unconditional advantage, if you look in general.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 13 February 2018 22: 39
      0
      Our hospital staff belonged to the category of military personnel, and the Germans nurses were civilian personnel of the German Red Cross!
      And military losses were not considered!
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 14 February 2018 10: 44
      +1
      According to the prisoners of war of 1941, German orders were brought to VIF2-NE at the time, according to which any men of military age could be taken prisoner, regardless of their uniform, only on suspicion that they were military personnel.
      1. yehat
        yehat 14 February 2018 11: 38
        +2
        in fact, the implementation of this order did not lead to a sharp increase in the number of prisoners or losses
        the army was not eager to replace the police. This, by the way, is again visible in the operation of encircling Kiev. The main thing is precisely the classification — who is the army and who is not.

        The main article says - the huge sacrifices of the USSR in comparison with the moderate in Germany - not a consequence of the terrible leadership of the country, but a consequence of the barbaric reprisals of the invaders over the civilian population and hijacking to work in Germany - a half million minimum.
  25. Klaus
    Klaus 13 February 2018 21: 21
    0
    Studying the lessons of that great and terrible war, we must stop arguing about the past, and draw conclusions, and think about the present and future. And for this, first of all, you need to stop lying, and first of all to yourself. After all, as it was: “all as one for the power of the soviets ...”, “to beat the enemy on its territory”, “the red army is all the stronger” ... But in the end: there was panic in the beginning, and disorganization of management, and they fought 3 years on its territory, and the German already reached the Volga, and the Vlasovites and other traitors were in a fair amount ... It turned around from that, as they had not expected ...
    Now we have a similar situation: local wars and conflicts on the periphery, and the concentration of NATO forces in Europe. From the media, too, raving speeches are pouring about getting up from our knees, nuclear ashes, our new weapons and the might of our army. Just today, unlike the Stalinist USSR, we do not have our own industry, we do not have our own developed agriculture, we have no powerful allies, and potential opponents account for more than 50% of world GDP.
    Therefore, Grudinin is right: defense capability and security are forged primarily within the country, by restoring industrial potential and developing the national economy.
    1. yehat
      yehat 14 February 2018 11: 41
      +2
      how do you forge safety inside if there are nuclear weapons delivery vehicles?
      How do you restore an industry without the right product market?
      the fact of the matter is that, due to the globalization of domestic politics, it is not enough.
  26. Altona
    Altona 13 February 2018 22: 48
    +2
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Well, yes, yes ... that is probably why in 1944 the proportion of Lend-Lease gunpowders was as much as 44% (for some components for the production of LL powders it was 100%). And our Air Force got off the Lend-Lease high-octane needle only after the war ended. Moreover, the imported high-octane was used not only in its pure form, but also in a mixture with domestic gasoline - these mixtures were recorded in the production statistics in the column “produced in the USSR” in production statistics.
    The share of Lend-Lease aluminum is 55% of the total amount of aluminum produced and obtained by the USSR. These deliveries allowed us to start moving away from delta wood and other wood in aircraft construction since 1943.
    The share of Lend-Lease copper is 45% of the total production and supplies to the USSR. By the way, these deliveries of copper finally made it possible to establish the mass production of 85-mm rounds and switch from F-34 to ZIS-S-53 and D-5T. And Lend-Lease machines for processing shoulder straps of towers with a diameter of more than 1500 mm made it possible to make a tower into which these guns got up. In the USSR itself, after the evacuation of such machines, 2 remained, and one of them was engaged in the production of heavy tanks.

    -------------------------------------------------
    -
    For some reason, the comments of the commentators always slide down to the Juche ideology. Allegedly, the USSR was to fight, relying solely on its own forces. This was the diplomatic talent of Stalin. that he managed to convince the Anglo-Saxons to establish at least some kind of help. Yes, gasoline, sheet metal of various alloys was. There were deliveries of motor vehicles and other products. It is naive to talk about victory when the USSR lost 70% of the country's inhabited territory. Stalin's resources were extremely limited.
  27. kalibr
    kalibr 14 February 2018 13: 06
    0
    Quote: vvvjak
    It has already been said many times that Lend-Lease deliveries accounted for 10% of all the production of the USSR for the front during the war.

    This is a chatter! For many indicators, up to 50% or more ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 14 February 2018 17: 36
      0
      Say thank you to at least not classic about 4 percent of industrial production in the USSR from Ascension.
      1. Conserp
        Conserp 14 February 2018 18: 10
        0
        My friend, 4% is a fact.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 14 February 2018 19: 40
          0
          That's bullshit! Open the TRUTH for the 11 of June of the 1944 of the year (not the 45 of the year!) And see how much and what. And compare with our indicators.
    2. Conserp
      Conserp 14 February 2018 18: 08
      0
      Indeed, idle talk is only 4%, taking into account reserves.

      And "in many ways" - manipulation and demagogy.

      Now 100% of iPhone-6 mobile phones are being imported into Russia. And what, some conclusions can be drawn from this?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 15 February 2018 11: 15
        +1
        Quote: Conserp
        And "in many ways" - manipulation and demagogy.
        Now 100% of iPhone-6 mobile phones are being imported into Russia. And what, some conclusions can be drawn from this?

        You are confusing models and classes of armored vehicles. Interest was calculated specifically for general classes, and not for specific models.
        Both manipulation and demagogy are the notorious 4%. Calculated by unknown at an unknown rate. Voznesensky’s figure looks especially good against the background of such data:
        Designated by the state to service the transportation of ammunition and other supplies, the 41st automobile regiment of the 5th shock army consisted of 127 Ford trucks and 476 Studebakers.
    3. vvvjak
      vvvjak 15 February 2018 08: 52
      +2
      During the Second World War, the USSR did not produce a single locomotive. They put 241 on Lend-Lease, how much is% 100, 241, 0, infinity? The pre-war rolling stock of the USSR railway is estimated at 2000–2500. So how and from what will we consider%?
      1. Conserp
        Conserp 15 February 2018 11: 27
        +1
        The argument is correct, but all three of your numbers are complete crap.

        At the time of the outbreak of war in the NKPS of the USSR there were about 28 thousand steam locomotives. And they were also in other departments and in industry. If you consider the part to be non-standard, you’ll still lose the toe.

        During the war years in the USSR, 800 main steam locomotives were produced.

        They put 1900 on Lend-Lease.
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak 15 February 2018 13: 15
          +3
          I agree with zero completely in a hurry to the “planning meeting”. About 241 steam locomotives are indicated in the newspaper Pravda of June 11, 1944, to which dear Mr. kalibr refers in almost every “comment” (as he answered his post). About the fact that the locomotives were not produced during the Second World War was an article on topwar. I do not pretend to be reliable figures (different figures cite different sources), but I am glad that they appreciated my thought
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 15 February 2018 11: 29
        0
        Quote: vvvjak
        During the Second World War, the USSR did not produce a single locomotive. They put 241 on Lend-Lease, how much is% 100, 241, 0, infinity?

        To be precise, then for 1941-1945. The USSR produced 800 steam locomotives (of which 708 - in 1941). About 1900 steam locomotives were obtained from LL - almost all of them in 1944-1945.
        These deliveries came just in time - the front was rolling back to the West, the length of the controlled railway tracks was increasing, and its production of steam locomotives had not yet been restored. Moreover, our company ordered on LL the supply of steam locomotives suitable for work on roads with a weak track structure.
        Quote: vvvjak
        So how and from what will we consider%?

        Best of all - from the availability of steam locomotives for 1944. smile
        1. yehat
          yehat 15 February 2018 16: 07
          0
          some of the old locomotives were mothballed during the WWII, so there were more in the ranks.
  28. kalibr
    kalibr 14 February 2018 19: 37
    0
    Quote: yehat
    And how did Germany, unlike its neighbors, begin to create tanks devoid of popular childhood diseases?
    And where in Germany did the military-industrial complex suddenly get hundreds of engineers who had already enlightened on their topics?

    They made them in Sweden and ... in the USSR!
    1. Conserp
      Conserp 15 February 2018 10: 18
      0
      Why are you lying?
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 15 February 2018 12: 32
        0
        But don’t you know about the invitation to the USSR of a large group of German engineers, headed by the engineer Grote, who made in the 1930 the “Grote tank” or TG, which was much ahead of its time. Here was an article about it. There was a German tank test site near Kazan - "Object Kama", where raffer officers tested a number of vehicles and prepared themselves. There was an air training ground and a flight school, a chemical training ground ... All this helped them to save and train personnel in the 20-beginning of the 30s. And with the 1933 of the year it became unnecessary ... But they collaborated in a different way. For example, the Yaroslavl automobile plant YAGAZ, for which Daimler-Benz fulfills an order for the supply of 1927 engines MercedesBenz M137 (26 l, 7,0 cylinders, 6 hp) in the 70 year at 1600 rpm) with gearboxes to them, designs a tank on the basis of this power unit. As for the branch of the Russian-Baltic Carriage Works in Fili near Moscow, then from 1923 of the year it has been transferred to the concession of the famous German aviation company Junkers. And not only passenger airplanes are released there, but also fighters and reconnaissance aircraft. The Germans brought in Fili the latest equipment and began very harshly, not in the Soviet way, to ask Russian employees. The famous German order was felt by the future helicopter designer Nikolai Ilyich Kamov. He, a certified mechanical engineer, was accepted as a concession by ordinary workers and rushed mercilessly ... Today, there is everything about Soviet-German cooperation. And the documents are open ...
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak 15 February 2018 14: 01
          +2
          Oooh, they recalled another “liberal democratic” postulate about the role of the USSR in the creation of the Wehrmacht. ” Tell me the ignoramus how 36 tankers and 120 pilots who had been trained on the territory of the USSR before Hitler came to power became a threat to all mankind.
          1. yehat
            yehat 15 February 2018 16: 11
            +1
            you forgot something
            in these facilities studied a significant part of the leading cadres of the German army, which formed the backbone in the future. The same Guderian worked on the tactics of mechanized units in the USSR together with representatives of our academy, communicated with Tukhachevsky, Shaposhnikov, Zhukov and others.
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 15 February 2018 17: 49
            0
            If each of these 120 pilots taught to fly at least 10, then this is 1200, and if 100 - then 12 thousand. And after the 33 year, training was put on a solid foundation. By the way, the last cargo train for Germany crossed the border 3 hours before the start of the war. And besides the pilots and tankers there was a lot of something ...
          3. Amurets
            Amurets 17 February 2018 01: 27
            0
            Quote: vvvjak
            Oooh, they recalled another “liberal democratic” postulate about the role of the USSR in the creation of the Wehrmacht. ”

            Well then read VG Grabin: “Volleys of Victory”, as he worked in KB No. 2, together with the Germans, creating guns for our army. Sweden has already been mentioned, but Switzerland and the Netherlands have forgotten. Anti-aircraft artillery and other weapons were partially worked out at the Oerlikon firm, which worked closely with the Rhine Metal firm
            "According to the Decree of the Council of People's Commissars on August 6, 1930, the head of the State Machine-gun and machine-gun association Budnyak and the head of BYUTAST Hugo Freuden-matte signed a secret agreement in Berlin. According to it, BYUTAST was supposed to help the USSR organize the gross production of six artillery systems: 7,62- cm anti-aircraft guns; 15,2-cm mortars; 3,7-cm anti-tank guns; 2-cm and 3,7-cm anti-aircraft guns and 15,2-cm howitzers. All guns were naturally made by Rheinmetall. Thus, the Germans provided the USSR with the best prototypes of their artillery systems. By the way, all these artillery systems, except for the 7,62 cm anti-aircraft gun (the Germans soon switched to 88 mm caliber for anti-aircraft guns), were launched into mass production in Germany in the middle of 30 and successfully acted on all fronts of World War II. " Shirokorad Alexander Borisovich - Russia and Germany. History of military cooperation. It also contains about diesels and equipment for the first submarines of the USSR and about the Hague design firm "1peepesg Kopyug uog ZNShai * or abbreviated" 1 \ '5 ". It turned out that E-1 was designed by 1peepesg Kopyug UGShai * or abbreviated "1 \ 5". The company was located in The Hague, but in fact it was a branch of the well-known German company Deshimag. The director of “1U5” was the former commander of the Kaiser fleet, Captain Blum, and the technical director was the famous designer of the pre-war German submarines, Dr. Gane Techel. “All E-2 working drawings were sighted by representatives of the Deshimag company, which were constantly present in the hard currency. there were four specialists: in housing, mechanisms, systems and electrical equipment.
            The submarine IX design was completed at the beginning of 1935.
            As Professor Bazilevsky wrote, a German engineer Maurits said that when designing submarines for a kriegemarine by Deshimag, “depreciation is already used so widely that they confidently guarantee the detection range of their boats with hydroacoustic only at distances 5-6 times less than Soviet, whose noisiness is known to them at sea *.
        2. yehat
          yehat 16 February 2018 11: 40
          +1
          the story of Grote is a false trace.
          it is much more real that the Germans had access to chassis tests based on the designs of Christie and others, which were developed and bought in the USSR when they only carried cardboard models for exercises. Their proprietary layout with a tower in the center was born in part due to experience in the USSR
  29. NordUral
    NordUral 14 February 2018 19: 45
    0
    Our Fathers and grandfathers won the Great Patriotic War. Then, together, we lost the Cold War. But a new cold war must be won, not bringing it to the world. If we don’t win, we will disappear.
    Therefore, we vote for Grudinin, and not for Putin! You cannot be the president of a great country to someone who betrays his soldiers (even if these Wagner soldiers are fighting not for the idea, but for the profits of the oil industry). But these are our guys and the president of Russia and the authorities cannot say that Russian soldiers are not there. It is a shame and pain for the guys and for the country!
    Grudinin and a team of patriots must come to power! Otherwise, the end of Russia.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 February 2018 12: 36
      0
      And the house for 800 thousand euros for a son in Spain? And accounts in foreign banks ... Very patriot. Of course, he has less than the current president. But the appetite is there. Will become president - will quickly catch up on the unfinished in his favor!
      1. yehat
        yehat 15 February 2018 16: 30
        0
        one small example - the USSR produced more cement than all the rest on the globe.
        and built accordingly. labor productivity was simply frantic, despite all the costs of "unmotivated" labor.
      2. yehat
        yehat 15 February 2018 16: 37
        0
        you know, the theft of thousands and even millions nationwide is a trifle
        and if they really fight theft, these costs do not change anything
        problems in the economy come when they start to uncontrollably snatch, when the bill goes by billions - like Shuvalov, Rotenberg, Chubais, etc.
        such scales already lead to structural shifts, and in our case, to a monstrous structural shift (many economists claim that the economy of budget theft is so toxic that it disappears from 60 to 75% of investments). This is comparable to the end of 41 years, when Germany bombed and occupied half of the country.

        a clear example is the Zenith Arena. It was built, but the facility, which costs 5-8 billion overseas, was built for 43 in our country. And about 3.5 billion to fix the marriage and unaccounted problems.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 15 February 2018 17: 51
          0
          Adam Smith wrote about this very well when ...
    2. yehat
      yehat 15 February 2018 16: 17
      +1
      USSR won the cold war!
      when Gorbachev began to surrender everything, the USSR controlled or was friends with about 70% of the globe.
      the armies of the Warsaw Pact, the USSR and other allies exceeded the forces of NATO + USA at times.
      the scientific gap was even greater — in a number of regions of the USSR it reached a qualitatively higher level than the west.
      but the leadership of the USSR lost the information war mediocrely.
      Remember the pearls - in the USSR there is no sex in the same vein.
  30. naidas
    naidas 16 February 2018 20: 34
    +1
    [quote = Less] [quote = Alexey RA] The USSR and the Russian Federation paid only part of the amount for the civilian goods left after the war by LL - and in dollars from the 80s and 90s at the prices of the 40s [/ quote]
    This is the success of our diplomacy. wink
    This is not a success, instead of gold, they paid with their lives in the Far East (the Kwantung Army), while saving the United States from $ 46 billion or more (with a land lease of 11 billion, partially paying)
  31. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 17 February 2018 10: 16
    0
    The correct article and I am ready to subscribe to every word. Only a blind man or a traitor does not see the most merciless, ideological attack of the West on our Russia, the most vile and dishonest blows on everything that our people are proud of! Including everything and everything from the OI and ending with the destruction of the monuments to our soldiers who died during the liberation of Europe! Of course it is insulting to the descendants of those who put Hitler and the losers, that they are furious with powerlessness and therefore seek to rewrite History and whitewash the meanness of their fathers and grandfathers!