Military Review

Expert: Proton rocket slid to "total uselessness"

193
In 2018, the Russian heavy rocket “Proton” will set an anti-record for the number of launches, having started only two times, leads Lenta.ru report An article by the chief editor of the RussianSpaceWeb.com website, Anatoly Zack.




According to the expert, this year the carrier is likely to “not put a single commercial load into orbit”.

For nearly a quarter of a century, the venerable Soviet space rocket launched communications satellites for the whole world. But it went down to almost total uselessness in just two years,
he writes.

The expert notes that "the attempts of the Russian government to load Protons with federal orders in conditions when its international clients disappeared did not succeed." According to him, at present, the communication satellite Blagovest-12L, created in the interests of the Ministry of Defense, is the only guaranteed order for the launch of Proton in 2018.

"Another classified military payload can also fly this year, apparently, as needed," writes ZAK.

In his opinion, the only “really needed payload” that “Proton” can launch in 2018 year, is the “Science” module for the ISS. “Although this start is scheduled for December, it is unlikely that it will be possible to produce it on time,” the expert believes.

He cites three reasons for the decline in the number of Proton launches: “technical (professional competence and quality control at Roscosmos enterprises), political (there is political risk associated with the launch of payload by Russia) and financial (competition with Western companies SpaceX and Arianespace) ".

Earlier in January, the Khrunichev Center, the only producer of heavy proton and Angara rockets in the Russian Federation, due to reduced orders and carrier accidents, as well as a large credit and social burden, asked the federal government for 30 billion rubles.
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com
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  1. god-given
    god-given 30 January 2018 12: 13 New
    28
    in a couple of decades we will cease to be a space power
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 30 January 2018 12: 15 New
      50
      Quote: God-given
      in a couple of decades we will cease to be a space power

      We have an effective team of managers Rogozin, Sechin, Medvedev, Chubais, Vasiliev, Taburetkin - this is a team!
      1. Alex_Rarog
        Alex_Rarog 30 January 2018 13: 42 New
        12
        Yes, not the managers of the ute, and the rest should be just put in for failures with confiscation. Then they will rip priests so that the protons are the best!
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 30 January 2018 14: 06 New
          16
          Quote: Alex_Rarog
          Yes, not the managers of the ute, and the rest should be just put in for failures with confiscation. Then they will rip priests so that the protons are the best!

          Well, what has nothing to do with it, each “cant” has a surname. This is the problem that no one is responsible for anything. And the guarantor, as you know, does not give up his own.
        2. grandfather_Kostya
          grandfather_Kostya 30 January 2018 18: 08 New
          +2
          you just have to plant

          To the formalin jar and to the Kunstkamera?
        3. UAZ 452
          UAZ 452 30 January 2018 20: 09 New
          +4
          It will help if managers will be imprisoned (starting with the "tops") and hard workers, who inserted another sensor upside down. And for some reason, it is believed in our country that it is not difficult to touch a "simple" man - the proletariat, hegemon. That's when they will answer everyone who put his hand to the whole accident for the next accident, then the missiles will stop falling.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 31 January 2018 00: 38 New
            +6
            Yeah, and by the way they will stop flying too. For the sensors on them will simply become nobody to screw on.

            Quality is achieved not by planting, but by an adequate control system of this very quality. And building (or maintaining) such a system is still the task of the leadership.
            1. UAZ 452
              UAZ 452 31 January 2018 23: 12 New
              0
              An adequate quality control system by definition cannot be, if it does not include incentive measures for high quality work, and penalties for marriage. Otherwise, such a system is worthless.
              And the inability to produce rockets, of course, is completely unacceptable for a country like ours, but better than producing rockets that launch satellites into the ocean with frightening consistency instead of space.
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 2 February 2018 01: 07 New
                0
                An adequate quality control system by definition cannot be, if it does not include incentive measures for high quality work, and penalties for marriage.

                Firstly, maybe a quality control system is designed to control quality and not to encourage and punish.
                Secondly, rewards and punishments are different - you can hang it on the board of honor, or you can report to the general meeting of the labor collective.
                Thirdly and most importantly, the failure of the finished product for production reasons is still a failure of the system but for one specific worker. In systems performing critical missions, quality control should ensure the identification of any random errors - simply because a living person is prone to make mistakes.
                Well, the last - if you implement what you offer above - the only result that you get is that there simply will not be anyone to collect them, that's all.
          2. Fury
            Fury 31 January 2018 10: 06 New
            +7
            While the factories pay 11-17000 rubles a month there, they will screw everything upside down. People are not interested in working for such (money) and either pensioners, senility, or guys who have no experience and then hang out whoever goes to the factory without a normal salary. The hegemon is not the proletariat now, but the oligarchy, all the money of Russia is spent on it. Until this changes, the missiles in the Russian Federation will not fly better, it will only get worse.
            1. UAZ 452
              UAZ 452 31 January 2018 23: 07 New
              0
              The carrot and the stick do not cancel each other out, and work exclusively in pairs. Normal salaries for a job well done, bonuses for a successful result - a prerequisite. But the marriage, especially the one that led to the accident, should be punished at all levels, from "tops" to laborers.
              1. Fury
                Fury 5 February 2018 12: 40 New
                0
                As long as pennies are paid for high digits, this system will not work. Young people will not go to factories for 17000 rubles a month, today it’s not the money that can provide a young family, and it’s already difficult to alone ... In the meantime, 17000 rubles a month are paid to old, experienced workers, and even less to the young , only those who are not responsible for their bazaar can talk about the development of Russian production ...
        4. yehat
          yehat 31 January 2018 18: 30 New
          0
          in Japan in large cities, most homeless people are former leaders who failed.
      2. sogdy
        sogdy 30 January 2018 13: 55 New
        +2
        Quote: Svarog
        We have an effective management team

        I don’t understand, what are we discussing? Nekt served time, gained enlightenment and broadcasts? Where was the deep knowledge of nectus while he owned the Lame Horse?
      3. prosto_rgb
        prosto_rgb 30 January 2018 18: 51 New
        +5
        Quote: Svarog
        We have an effective team of managers Rogozin, Sechin, Medvedev, Chubais, Vasiliev, Taburetkin - this is a team!

        and not only they
        today the US even released a list of the most effective
    2. Neserg
      Neserg 30 January 2018 12: 18 New
      +5
      Any deadlock makes it possible to take a new path.
      1. Overlock
        Overlock 30 January 2018 12: 37 New
        10
        Quote: Neserg
        Any deadlock makes it possible to take a new path.

        maybe to a new dead end
        1. Bolo
          Bolo 30 January 2018 13: 40 New
          0
          Or maybe not...
          1. Overlock
            Overlock 30 January 2018 13: 41 New
            0
            Or maybe not
      2. Don
        Don 30 January 2018 13: 23 New
        30
        This is daa, for example, by the Ukrainians, destroying industry and science. Separate exceptions do not make weather here. I have long understood that the path we are on is a dead end. Many have already seen this. There are the last zombies left by the TV, but their ranks are thinning every day. This is evident even in our VO resource. At the beginning of this decade, the vast majority believed in the right path and supported Putin. Now you read the comments and the majority have some sort of gloom and apathy. In 6 years what will be approximately possible to imagine. Most will already have nothing to lose and they will even be ready to take up their guns.
        1. kenig1
          kenig1 30 January 2018 13: 57 New
          +6
          Wake up, you are raving.
          1. Letnab
            Letnab 30 January 2018 15: 07 New
            +6
            Really nonsense ... but there are more and more fans on the site, no matter how the topic, Putin is always to blame ...
          2. Don
            Don 30 January 2018 16: 54 New
            23
            Quote: kenig1
            Wake up, you are raving.

            Who raves is evident from the achievements of our space industry. During the fat 2000 years, when Russia confidently occupied the first places in commercial launches, they did nothing to maintain this success. The question is, where did all the profits from these launches go? It seems to me that top managers drank all considerable profit and took it out over the hill. Not competitive Angara can not be taken into account. So far, all of Mask’s forecasts for throwing Russia out of the commercial launch market are being realized. And the other from our unfortunate leaders should not have been expected.
            1. Alex20042004
              Alex20042004 30 January 2018 21: 06 New
              0
              I'm going to cry laughing laughing laughing
          3. Vkd dvk
            Vkd dvk 30 January 2018 21: 06 New
            0
            Quote: kenig1
            Wake up, you are raving.

            After swimming in the Don, this zombie will never become alive.
        2. Korax71
          Korax71 30 January 2018 15: 45 New
          +2
          And what does your vyser have to do with Ukraine and its inhabitants. It seems that there is no article about that. There is not a single article so as not to touch upon this topic.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 31 January 2018 00: 43 New
            +7
            I wrote ten times, I will write again. In terms of the destruction of science and production, Russia and Ukraine go the same way, and go a long time, they embarked on it long before Putin, and the reasons for this are basically the same. The only thing in this matter is that Ukraine has stepped forward and, in fact, in terms of the rate of this destruction itself, still in the early 90s and in general still holds the lead.
    3. donavi49
      donavi49 30 January 2018 12: 23 New
      32
      Well this year, Boeing plans to deliver the crew to the ISS - the launch of the Boe-CFT is scheduled for November. There will be 4 people. Before this, the Boeing will launch an unmanned ship in the summer.

      Musk answers - SpX-DM1 in the summer and manned SpX-DM2 on the ISS at the end of the year.

      If there is no emergency, then this year the Americans will have 2 spacecraft for delivery of astronauts to the ISS.

      The rest on the ISS has long been delivered by others. And the crowding out of Progress type ships is not even a matter of politics, but of economics.

      In 2018, the following trucks fly to the ISS:
      6 Cargo Ships from Mask
      2 Freight Zingus from Orbital
      1 cargo Boeing (the one that is not piloted by the Starliner, it will load snacks and other cargoes for the ISS).
      record Japanese Kounotori-7 - which will bring to the ISS as 3 Progress immediately.
      3 Progress.

      According to commercial conclusions, the competition is very fierce. The Chinese entered the race. Several American companies.
      1. Nasrat
        Nasrat 30 January 2018 12: 41 New
        33
        M-yes ... Korolev turns over ....

        They ruined the astronautics ... another 10 years and no one will remember who started to fly into space .. regression however, regression .. so you’ll think about what kind of system leads to human development ...
        1. verner1967
          verner1967 30 January 2018 15: 13 New
          +2
          Quote: Nasr
          you’ll think about what kind of system leads to human development ...

          Well, and what?
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 30 January 2018 15: 28 New
            13
            Quote: verner1967
            Quote: Nasr
            you’ll think about what kind of system leads to human development ...

            Well, and what?

            Rather, the one in which Korolev lived !!! and certainly not the one that is now ...
            1. verner1967
              verner1967 30 January 2018 18: 17 New
              +3
              Quote: Nasr
              Rather, the one in which Korolev lived !!!

              he lived in the USA and in Japan, the Europeans are about to launch a rocket .... what
      2. sogdy
        sogdy 30 January 2018 14: 03 New
        +3
        Quote: donavi49
        Well this year, Boeing plans to deliver the crew to the ISS

        Well, when he landed, then the conversation will be.
        And yes, is this the same ISS that we were planning to flood? And they offered to those wishing to continue exploitation to support it themselves?
        Do not you think that the "great achievements" dragged out on time every ten times? The Achievements intended to assemble their station in orbit for a year. About ten years ago.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 30 January 2018 14: 24 New
          13
          They also wrote about the Mask, that's when the conversation will fly then. That's when he sets the stage then the conversation will be.

          Now Musk launches the most. And others (not only Roskosmos) suddenly experienced a significant outflow of commercial load and its flow to the Mask, which has a turn. And other companies followed Musk, now even the Chinese are launching their commercial company on their rocket.
          1. sogdy
            sogdy 30 January 2018 14: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: donavi49
            Now Musk launches the most.

            Less than Israel. Even less than our surveyors. Shaw, they didn’t know ?! So it is an ordinary event.
            The only thing Americans are ahead of us is parachute landing. They have been practicing it on foot in equestrian fashion since the 30s.

            So what about a tenfold delay in the execution of "achievements"? The point is this, not the promises.
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 31 January 2018 00: 51 New
              +1
              The only thing Americans are ahead of us is parachute landing. They have been practicing it on foot in equestrian fashion since the 30s.

              What else parachute landing? Watch the Falcon landing video, where is the parachute?
              1. sogdy
                sogdy 31 January 2018 15: 21 New
                0
                Quote: alexmach
                What else parachute landing? Watch the Falcon landing video, where is the parachute?

                It’s amazing, but what is the first stage landing?
                And yes, but what is the "achievement"? At what height does this Falcon cast? 23 km?
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 31 January 2018 18: 10 New
                  0
                  Falcon-9 as a rocket is usually on GPO, 20-40 km.
                  The first step jumps up to 180 km.
                  In theory, it can pull on Mars as a Proton, the same power.
                  1. sogdy
                    sogdy 1 February 2018 15: 52 New
                    0
                    Returning to how many jumped?
                    Dig, dig deeper.
                    From 22-23 you can go into orbit (up to 600) and return on your own engine. And then you need to get out of the ring, having doused with the second step, balance and return. For the tropics - already on the slope. Such wear can be compared with a flywheel.
                    The return is effective from 5 km. But then what is the cynus? Just window dressing. S7 stated that the program Mask 3-5 km. Fourth step?
          2. yehat
            yehat 31 January 2018 18: 34 New
            +1
            Musk launches because he is being lobbied
            there is NO commercial success in his work.
            and the proton is still better than the Mask rocket.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 31 January 2018 20: 48 New
              +1
              Proton 65 million, Falcon 62 million
              1. sogdy
                sogdy 1 February 2018 15: 59 New
                0
                Quote: BlackMokona
                Proton 65 million

                Commercial value 65. They already have. Cost of production has never been announced.
                Falcon 62 is still in production. "You can build a palace in three months, the question is how long to finish building." The soared Falcon cost 120-150. Runaway due to reporting process.
        2. Dedall
          Dedall 30 January 2018 20: 06 New
          +5
          Not the ISS, but the Mir Mir, the first thing he consciously drowned was when he got hooked to the helm. "Kursk" he spontaneously turned out. I remember that then they also informed everyone in advance of the area of ​​the fall. And when they asked the reason for the unwillingness to extend the service life, our leader said that he did not have 600 million.
      3. axxenm
        axxenm 30 January 2018 14: 10 New
        +5
        Quote: donavi49
        Well this year, Boeing plans to deliver the crew to the ISS - the launch of the Boe-CFT is scheduled for November. There will be 4 people. Before this, the Boeing will launch an unmanned ship in the summer.
        Musk answers - SpX-DM1 in the summer and manned SpX-DM2 on the ISS at the end of the year.
        If there is no emergency, then this year the Americans will have 2 spacecraft for delivery of astronauts to the ISS.

        they are constantly taldychat each year and each year transferred to the next

        This year, nothing manned will fly to either the Boeing Starliner or the Spas X Dragon Crew.
        Better than the Union designed by the Royal in the 1960s for flights to the Moon, there is still nothing
        Roscosmos, like all other state-owned companies of the Russian Federation, is a thieves' drinking office ..
        As soon as Russia gets rid of the comprador clique in power, it will again become a leader in progress in space exploration, which will entail an improvement in development in other areas of life.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 30 January 2018 14: 21 New
          +5
          Because you said so?
          Nasa is planning this
          The next generation of American spacecraft and rockets that will launch astronauts to the International Space Station are nearing the final stages of development and evaluation. NASA's Commercial Crew Program will return human spaceflight launches to US soil, providing reliable and cost-effective access to low-Earth orbit on systems that meet our safety and mission requirements. To meet NASA's requirements, the commercial providers must demonstrate that their systems are ready to begin regular flights to the space station. Two of those demonstrations are uncrewed flight tests, known as Orbital Flight Test for Boeing, and Demonstration Mission 1 for SpaceX. After the uncrewed flight tests, both companies will execute a flight test with crew prior to being certified by NASA for crew rotation missions. The following schedule reflects the most recent publicly releasable dates for both providers.

          Targeted Test Flight Dates:
          Boeing Orbital Flight Test (uncrewed): August 2018
          Boeing Crew Flight Test (crewed): November 2018
          SpaceX Demonstration Mission 1 (uncrewed): August 2018
          SpaceX Demonstration Mission 2 (crewed): December 2018

          If the lead ship catches up with problems / disaster, then yes they will postpone it to 2019. If not, then they will fly. The Boeing is definitely forcing, in order to forward Mask to deliver the first American astronauts to the ISS since the time of the Shuttle. The crews of both Mask and Boeing have already been formed and are preparing for flight if that.
          1. axxenm
            axxenm 30 January 2018 15: 01 New
            +3
            Quote: donavi49
            Because you said so?
            Nasa is planning this

            Because you don’t know how to read, I wrote:
            Quote: axxenm
            they are constantly taldychat each year and each year transferred to the next

            As an astronautics enthusiast, I have been following events in this area for a very long time, including constantly encountering the delusional timing of launches of manned capsules, which are ALWAYS POSED.
            And I do not see any events and accomplishments that allow us to believe these dreamers this time.
            1. axxenm
              axxenm 30 January 2018 15: 09 New
              +1
              Especially indicative, in this sense, is the opupaea with KK Orion.
              It already started (unmanned by itself) in 2014, returned, like the Unions, as it should be charred (in contrast to the shiny capsules of gemini and apollo).
              And everything died out ..
              The launch of the next was postponed until 2019 !!!
              5 years to restart the capsule, which is fundamentally no different
              from the notorious Apollo .. and even easier to ensure safety, due to the lack of a completely insane pure oxygen atmosphere.
              Apparently, a jamb that still cannot be corrected got out in the year 14. (This is in contrast to the "legendary" and "great" Apollo engineers who, after a monstrous fire, Apollon-1 with the death of 3 astronauts, immediately rolled out, such as workers, apparatuses .).
              So even if they launch the starliner or dragon cru in unmanned mode this year, they will not start with the crew for a very long time after that.
              1. axxenm
                axxenm 30 January 2018 16: 08 New
                +1
                It seems like everything really looks like with ablation protection on the side surfaces. But things are going slowly and sadly with the Americans. It is not known whether we will wait for the second launch of Orion, because they all have to reinvent it. The secret to simulating the Apollo ablation cover from some masking tape has been lost. All is lost
              2. axxenm
                axxenm 30 January 2018 16: 08 New
                +2
                In a report compiled by the US Audit Chamber (GAO):
                "According to the Orion project leaders, the project initially proposed using the heat shield from the Apollon program as a backup technology for the Orion heat protection system, but they could not recreate the Apollo material." [GAO, 2008, p. 6]. And then GAO continues: "The characteristics of the heat shield required for Orion, in particular its dimensions, have never been tested and should still be developed." [GAO, 2008, p. 11].
                NASA's recognition that they cannot recreate the heat shield of the return capsule is striking. Such recognition can only be compared with the unimaginable statement that, for example, US military officials would admit that after using armored steel in their tanks during World War II, about 40 years later, they did not have the technology to develop armored steel and had difficulty reproducing such became, despite the experience of World War II.
                “Regarding the Orion thermal protection system,” concludes GAO, “the equipment available in the Apollo era for testing large-sized thermal screens no longer exists” [GAO, 2008, p.14].
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 31 January 2018 18: 13 New
                  0
                  It’s just that, according to cosirologists, the Apollo was presented directly to aircraft carriers. But the Internet knows their pictures on the water, where they are burnt, and the astronauts are pulled out of the capsule in gas masks and standing only with the help of rescuers. Then they will rest, clean everything, paint, wash and shine in front of the cameras on the aircraft carrier
                  1. Cossack 471
                    Cossack 471 31 January 2018 18: 34 New
                    0
                    I tried to find frames of pulling astronauts from the Apollos. not located. immediately vigorous climb out without spacesuits and "subsystems" I could not find the Old either. how they oriented on the moon. because as they say. stars are not visible and the compass is not working. the orbital compartment does not hover over the moon. and he winds up the turns as he found the landing point If there is anything on this topic. please give a link.
                    1. Blackmokona
                      Blackmokona 31 January 2018 19: 26 New
                      0
                      http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/ap
                      ollo / vaisseaux / command_service_module / ap12-S69-22
                      265.JPG
                      Track tracks in your opinion is not an option?
          2. axxenm
            axxenm 30 January 2018 16: 16 New
            +2
            Quote: axxenm
            they are constantly taldychat each year and each year transferred to the next
            This year, nothing manned will fly to either the Boeing Starliner or the Spas X Dragon Crew.

            Quote: donavi49
            Because you said so?
            Nasa is planning this

            Ha Ha Ha ..... naive believers ...
            Boeing Starliner "Braking" Story: (from Wiki)
            In 2010, it was assumed that the CST-100 could be commissioned in 2014 [7].

            In August 2011, Boeing announced that the CST-100 will first go into space in 2015, both in unmanned and manned versions. In total, three CST-2015 flights were planned for 100 (the first unmanned; the second — test the crew rescue system; the third — manned docking with the ISS) [8].

            In May 2014, the first unmanned test launch of the CST-100 in January 2017 was announced. In mid-2017, the first orbital flight of a manned spacecraft with two astronauts was planned [9].

            In August 2016, the assembly of the ship began [10].

            At the end of 2016, the date of the first launch of the CST-100 was again postponed to December 2018 [11].
            ....
            And this term will not be fulfilled ..
          3. Vkd dvk
            Vkd dvk 30 January 2018 21: 10 New
            +1
            Quote: donavi49
            Because you said so?
            Nasa is planning this
            The next generation of American spacecraft and rockets that will launch astronauts to the International Space Station are nearing the final stages of development and evaluation. NASA's Commercial Crew Program will return human spaceflight launches to US soil, providing reliable and cost-effective access to low-Earth orbit on systems that meet our safety and mission requirements. To meet NASA's requirements, the commercial providers must demonstrate that their systems are ready to begin regular flights to the space station. Two of those demonstrations are uncrewed flight tests, known as Orbital Flight Test for Boeing, and Demonstration Mission 1 for SpaceX. After the uncrewed flight tests, both companies will execute a flight test with crew prior to being certified by NASA for crew rotation missions. The following schedule reflects the most recent publicly releasable dates for both providers.

            Targeted Test Flight Dates:
            Boeing Orbital Flight Test (uncrewed): August 2018
            Boeing Crew Flight Test (crewed): November 2018
            SpaceX Demonstration Mission 1 (uncrewed): August 2018
            SpaceX Demonstration Mission 2 (crewed): December 2018

            If the lead ship catches up with problems / disaster, then yes they will postpone it to 2019. If not, then they will fly. The Boeing is definitely forcing, in order to forward Mask to deliver the first American astronauts to the ISS since the time of the Shuttle. The crews of both Mask and Boeing have already been formed and are preparing for flight if that.

            The brains are not enough to understand that it is not the plans that are being evaluated, but the result. Then what are you doing here?
        2. yehat
          yehat 31 January 2018 18: 35 New
          0
          what are you carrying???
          for flights to the moon Korolev made a completely different heavy rocket.
          1. axxenm
            axxenm 31 January 2018 23: 39 New
            0
            you are carrying it ...
            in the discussion that you got into
            anyone who knows how to read understands that we are talking about spacecraft KK Soyuz, and not about rockets launch vehicles.
            Chukchi is not a reader, Chukchi is a writer?
            1. yehat
              yehat 1 February 2018 12: 09 New
              0
              what aboutрMical ship Union.
              Are you aware that the problem of shielding is still not resolved?
              neither the Americans nor the Queens decided it. What kind of flight to the moon are we talking about?
              what kind of real ship is it about?
              1. axxenm
                axxenm 1 February 2018 12: 39 New
                0
                Quote: yehat
                what aboutрMical ship Union.
                Are you aware that the problem of shielding is still not resolved?
                neither the Americans nor the Queens decided it. What kind of flight to the moon are we talking about?
                what kind of real ship is it about?

                again "Chukchi is not a reader Chukchi writer"

                here is my quote:
                "
                This year, nothing manned will fly to either the Boeing Starliner or the Spas X Dragon Crew.
                Better than the Union designed by the Royal in the 1960s for flights to the Moon, there is still nothing
                Roscosmos, like all other state-owned companies of the Russian Federation, is a thieves' drinking office ..
                As soon as Russia gets rid of the comprador clique in power, it will again become a leader in progress in space exploration, which will entail an improvement in development in other areas of life. "

                You want to say that Korolev designed the KK Union not for flying to the moon?
                or want to say that there is another manned spacecraft better than the Union?

                And yet - you acknowledge that you confused, for “some reason”, the RN alliance with the KK alliance, in your “revelatory sarcastic” comment on my post?
                or try to chat again?

                The fact that because of the traitors in the late 1960s in the USSR, and the compradors of the colonial administration of the Russian Federation, the KK alliance is used only for meaningless flights to the orbit of the earth, does not negate the fact that Korolev designed it for flights to the moon in the first place.
                But he flies since 1973 flawlessly. Unlike the flawed wretched shuttle and fancy current American projects,
                and an attempt to foolishly strangle you from you in the form of “about the union spaceship”
                only hits you ..
                1. yehat
                  yehat 1 February 2018 12: 42 New
                  0
                  I don’t understand what kind of union you are talking about, and therefore I mock.
                  The Union complex was created for launching into orbit and it has been flying for a long time, the most reliable for living passengers. But he has nothing to do with the lunar program!
                  And the lunar program stalled in several directions at once - shielding, efficient powerful engines (those that were needed a lot, which greatly complicated the rocket and affected reliability), imperfection of automation, people who were involved in this, hinted at others not resolved problems. This, combined with the shock of news from the Americans, led to the curtailment of the program.
                  But suddenly you emerge and say that it turns out that the ship was created, flights to orbit are meaningless, and finally, the last.
                  astronautics is ruinous if the economy cannot use it. It ruined Buran, it ruined the station in the 90s, it ruins the proton now. We can’t even extract the usual benefits from surveillance satellites - weather, fires, etc.
                  1. axxenm
                    axxenm 1 February 2018 13: 18 New
                    +1
                    Quote: yehat
                    I don’t understand what kind of union you are talking about, and therefore I mock.

                    on the contrary, in order to jerk you need to understand what a person writes,

                    or maybe you don’t follow commas?
                    "Better than the Union designed ... in the 1960s for flights to the Moon, there is still nothing"
                    confused with
                    "Better than the Union designed ... in the 1960s, there is still nothing for flights to the Moon"
                    and, not having information about the lunar mission of the union, rushed into battle?
                    but not without reason at school pass "it is impossible to have mercy"
                    Quote: yehat
                    The Union complex was created for launching into orbit and it has been flying for a long time, the most reliable for living passengers. But he has nothing to do with the lunar program!

                    go teach the materiel before trying to argue with me on a space theme.
                    the union was created primarily for flights to the moon as part of the lunar expeditionary complex, as an element ensuring the delivery of astronauts from the earth to the orbit of the moon and back to earth ..
                    naturally, in a truncated form, it could also be used for a simpler task — delivering astronauts to the orbit of the earth.
                    But after a lunar conspiracy with the Americans in the late 60s when fools, tyrants and traitors in the USSR leadership "sold the birthright for lentil soup", they began to figure out how to fill out the picture and sucked out a stupid idea with meaningless orbital stations for flights to which they assigned " unions ", creating the illusion among the inhabitants that the KK Union was intended only for this.
                    1. yehat
                      yehat 1 February 2018 13: 52 New
                      0
                      what kind of equipment are you talking about? the union is not able to deliver even a mouse to the moon, and you are talking about much more.
                      There was certainly tyranny in the leadership of the USSR, but do not forget that the USSR at that time was thinking in terms of nuclear war. And the entire space program is the result of an arms race, and not an attempt to fly to the moon.
                      And the station in orbit must be considered from this point of view.
                      This is a military facility. What is the practical sense for the military to fly to the moon?
                      Close to zero. If there are no other dividends, the program is meaningless.
                      1. axxenm
                        axxenm 1 February 2018 14: 05 New
                        +1
                        Quote: yehat
                        the union is not able to deliver even a mouse to the moon

                        funny and naive you again decided to jump to the side?
                        Not only do you not see commas, so you do not notice a word:
                        "deliver to the moon" with "deliver to the orbit of the moon" can not distinguish?
                        Are you a cynical demagogue who can’t admit his mistakes, the most rude and obvious, or inattentive impulsive rush?
      4. Simargl
        Simargl 30 January 2018 14: 11 New
        +5
        Quote: donavi49
        According to commercial findings, the competition is very fierce.

        Then someone asked: why change something if the Union is coping?
        I answered from Alice: You need to run as fast just to stay in place, but to get somewhere, you must run at least twice as fast!... now, trampled on the spot ... recourse
    4. sogdy
      sogdy 30 January 2018 13: 50 New
      +3
      "Anatoly Zak. Businessman. According to version 59.ru, Anatoly Zak is one of the 5 richest people in the Kama Region. After December 2009, 4, he gained fame as the owner of the Lame Horse nightclub, in which the fire broke out on the night of December 5-2009, 156. claimed the lives of XNUMX people. "
      Expert Adnaka.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 30 January 2018 14: 42 New
        +5
        Well, you don’t need an expert. Just open the list of Proton launches.
        2010 - 12 launches (7 commercial), 1 failure.
        2011 - 9 launches (5 commercial), 1 failure.
        2012 - 11 launches (8 commercial), 2 failures including 1 commercial.
        2013 - 10 launches (7 commercial), 1 failure.
        2014 - 8 launches (3 commercial), 1 failure.
        2015 - 8 launches (4 commercial), 1 launch commercial failure.
        2016 - 3 launch (2 commercial).
        2017 - 4 launch (3 commercial).
        2018 - 3 launch planned, of which 1 there will be a French commercial penultimate contract (last in 2019 year) There is no more commercial (except for the Marsrover from ESA and the part of Science referred to in the ISS article).
        1. sogdy
          sogdy 31 January 2018 15: 33 New
          0
          And when was the last Proton produced? Why urgently rivets a new medium? And yes, what is the benefit of the “commercial” launches of potential adversary’s equipment?
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 31 January 2018 18: 15 New
            0
            The more you start, the cheaper and more reliable your launches will be, and money will not be superfluous
            1. yehat
              yehat 1 February 2018 12: 56 New
              0
              not so simple. Mass launches distract from development. There are not many specialists in the space program! How old is Proton? Lots of. During this time, technology has changed significantly.
              Do you know how old is the machine that turns on the ventilation valve on the descent? more than 30 years! And so with many units!
              The problem is that there is no real investment.
              Musk received directly or indirectly several billion for development. And how much did Roskosmos receive not for closing problems, but for development?
    5. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 30 January 2018 14: 42 New
      0
      Quote: God-given
      in a couple of decades we will cease to be a space power


      It is interesting how? Gagarin back back ???
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 31 January 2018 06: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: Geisenberg
        It is interesting how?
        Ukraine succeeded wassat
  2. Nemesis
    Nemesis 30 January 2018 12: 15 New
    29
    It’s clear that no one needs an old missile operating on excessively toxic fuel, and even with enormous technical problems arising from a low production culture. And all the problems from the obsolete machinery and the lack of skilled workers, which arises from the meager salaries of hard workers ...
    1. andre
      andre 30 January 2018 12: 20 New
      24
      I absolutely agree, if we do not learn to live a new life in a competitive environment, then the khan of the industry. Accustomed to rest on the USSR developments, yes, to put their sons and mistresses KB to lead ....
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 30 January 2018 12: 24 New
        25
        I agree. In addition, the problem of Putin and his state apparatus is to creep in front of the oligarchs, and Putin does not understand that a chip of which the oligarchs will not go to the front and work at factories too. The desire of the oligarchs to force people to work in factories for a bowl of balance leads to the fact that people leave enterprises, some to another industry, some to crime, and some will leave Russia forever while continuing to work somewhere in Argentina. With such a leadership of Russia, the revival does not shine, and individual, insignificant successes will drown in the darkness surrounding them and hopelessness.
        1. Maks400
          Maks400 30 January 2018 12: 31 New
          15
          You already really got it with Putin
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. mkop
              mkop 30 January 2018 12: 49 New
              11
              The management of factories of almost any kind in the country, what does it do to educate qualified personnel? NOTHING! Arrange for normal practice now, while studying at a technical university ... And what the hell will come of it. In company units, the personnel training system remained. Now give everything to everyone ready. But fools can’t understand that NO ONE HIGH SCHOOL could not graduate a ready-made professional, cannot and never will (there are only ones, but there are only a few of them). Without practice - all knowledge is akin to an encyclopedia, you know - but how to use all this is unclear? When I listened to my parents how they went through practice at the university, we did not even dream of this, alas.
              1. Nemesis
                Nemesis 30 January 2018 12: 52 New
                +6
                I agree with you. I also have a technical background. He completed his practice, received a diploma and left the factory to nowhere, because of the beggarly salaries at the factory, which were not enough even for normal nutrition.
                1. yehat
                  yehat 1 February 2018 12: 59 New
                  0
                  the guy talks about something else - about the study phase, where practical skills are acquired in contact with production, and you are talking about salaries.
              2. Archivist Vasya
                Archivist Vasya 30 January 2018 13: 03 New
                +5
                About universities to the point. I'm at the REU them. I’m studying Plekhanov, in the evening, we had practice in the 4th year — this is the same as the term paper, only a little more in volume — they gave us topics, a methodical manual with GOSTs and that’s all. The word "practice" is generally inappropriate here.
                1. Nemesis
                  Nemesis 30 January 2018 14: 33 New
                  +4
                  Well, I really worked at the factory, for a while, after receiving my diploma, but the beggarly salary, which was not enough even for a normal diet, led to the fact that I quit the factory and didn’t intend to work more for a bowl of balandans, enough ...
                  1. Dedall
                    Dedall 30 January 2018 20: 31 New
                    +4
                    Probably, all hard workers in Russia have such sadness. I also have a salary of 8000 rubles in the hospital, and to leave and open my office is such a brainwave. And it seems to me that this whole “quadrille” with difficulties in organizing a normal, not a trading business, has been specially created since the days of EBN. Then, after all, the first cooperatives and profit gave good and new technical ideas. But someone in the State Department looked at this matter and decided to cover up. RosZdravNadzor, RosPotrebNadzor and others - all these are the fruits of one tree grown in America to destroy our economy.
                    1. Nemesis
                      Nemesis 30 January 2018 20: 35 New
                      +2
                      Commercial medicine is a crime in itself. Even in Canada, medicine is free, and in our country a normal seal can be delivered only on a commercial basis and for a tangible amount ...
                      1. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 30 January 2018 20: 50 New
                        +7
                        Quote: Nemesis
                        Even in Canada, medicine is free, and in our country a normal seal can be delivered only on a commercial basis and for a tangible amount ...

                        And again the goddess crouched in a puddle ...
                        In Canada, teeth insurance ... does not apply to you to know.
                        So there none you can’t put a seal for free, especially "normal" request
                    2. yehat
                      yehat 1 February 2018 13: 02 New
                      0
                      the quadrille is different - due to the difficulty and high cost of raising funds, private business is very risky. Because of this, low salaries.
                      And all kind of trade is criminal. And because of this, production is bent.
              3. sogdy
                sogdy 30 January 2018 14: 12 New
                +1
                Quote: mkop
                But fools can’t understand that NO ONE HIGH SCHOOL could not graduate a ready-made professional, cannot and will never be able to

                Let me ask, do we have a ministry of vocational and (secondary) technical education? No way? What are you crying about?
                Even on Renault there are no more kindergartens and factory head teachers. Long. And this is the founder of vocational training.
            2. vlad_vlad
              vlad_vlad 30 January 2018 13: 50 New
              +7
              Quote: Nemesis
              And you really got with your attempts to play the role of Devil's advocates. Yeltsin = Hitler!


              those. The tsar and his friends have been in power for 18 years, and is Yeltsin to blame for all the failures? Type - The king is responsible for success ...
              1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Overlock
          Overlock 30 January 2018 12: 40 New
          +7
          China picked up and took the Antonov factory’s engineers from Kiev to work for itself; soon the planes will appear. From Nikolaev - employees of ChSZ, soon 3 aircraft carrier will lower to water.
          It's simple, why reinvent the wheel when it rolls nearby on the ground
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 30 January 2018 12: 42 New
            +2
            Yes, I partially agree with you, but you need to train your own specialists, and not rely on foreigners, especially in the military sectors ...
            1. Overlock
              Overlock 30 January 2018 12: 50 New
              +7
              and who will cook? I don’t know for engineering, I’ll say about medicine. Under the Union, the assistant or assistant professor of the department (we miss the professors) are the most experienced doctors, they drove us and gave us knowledge. Lectures could be given only by a professor or associate professor. Now, these persons do not give lectures, it is the responsibility of assistants, the old cadres are gone / dead, young assistants themselves must be taught. What knowledge do students have? Close to "2". there is also a "0". There are professors who are only theorists, or very literate, are engaged in commerce
              1. mkop
                mkop 30 January 2018 12: 56 New
                +5
                The plant must be prepared, the university can give theoretical knowledge, foundations, principles to lay. Concrete and practice should be taught in factories, people who have been doing this all their lives.
                1. sabakina
                  sabakina 30 January 2018 13: 30 New
                  +7
                  This requires mentors. I still remember this mentoring movement. And who will do this right now for a great life? and even spend your time.
                  1. mkop
                    mkop 30 January 2018 15: 50 New
                    +1
                    And where do you get "your time" from the factory? You have to work, and you have "your time." It is the duty of the staff to bring the training of the newcomer’s staff and that’s all. But they do not. If people have what the fuck is going on at their enterprise, then it is doomed to death.
                2. Dedall
                  Dedall 30 January 2018 20: 41 New
                  +3
                  Respected mkop, I would like to clarify that future engineers during the USSR received working specialties within the walls of universities, and during the summer practice they consolidated practical skills. They recognized "how much a pound of dashing", so to speak. Including the tricks of relationships in the work environment. And now comes all so beautiful of himself and begins to “swing” the right. And this newly-minted engineer himself often really cannot even verify compliance with tolerances.
                  1. mkop
                    mkop 31 January 2018 13: 36 New
                    0
                    What do you mean by specialty? Turner, drill, milling - are these working specialties? Is the design engineer a working specialty?
                    My father and mother did not receive working specialties at the university. They were taught by theories (both engineers by education). In practice, in factories, they stood at machine tools, etc. - that is, it was just practice.
                    If the university will teach you how to turn, then you will be a turner, and not a designer for example.
                    1. Dedall
                      Dedall 31 January 2018 20: 42 New
                      +1
                      mkop, I'm sorry that I do not have the honor to know your age and specialty, but I will say this - both my brother and I would be considered fools in present-day Russia. This is because I learned to be a doctor, and he became an engineer. And he studied at the Tashkent Automobile Institute in the Soviet years and by the 3rd year he had the crusts of the 4th category of a turner, milling machine operator and grinder. And their machines were in the training and production workshop.
                      If we take other other educational institutions, then once in the Novocherkassk Polytechnic there was a good educational base. I remember that on the territory there was even a whole site with tractors and power units. And across the street from the building of the NPI Mining Corps, there is still a building with the pre-revolutionary inscription "Scientific and Production Building". But then a new rector by the name of Perederi came and appointed himself a monthly salary of 1,2 million rubles. Are you talking about Siluanov? So he began by taking all the workshops from the departments. Then he completely abolished the department of SoproMat. And I believe that without this discipline, an engineer is simply impossible.
                      I can say the same example for the St. Petersburg Polytechnic University, which had a huge territory for workshops in the metro area "Square of Courage". On the Wiki page on this topic there are pre-revolutionary photographs of how future engineers learned how to cast complex parts and work on machines there. But at the time of Matvienko all this was squeezed out of the Polytechnic.
                      Summarizing what has been said, I’ll say that everything we have is clearly going according to the Ost plan. And it says there that the Slavs should have only primary school education. Moreover, they do not need to be considered, but you only need to be able to read signs and advertisements. And if you have to count, then you should be able to do this only on calculators.
                      1. mkop
                        mkop 1 February 2018 15: 08 New
                        0
                        Design Engineer I. Both by education and by work. I am 30 years old, almost 31. Machine tools are (stood when I was studying, and still stand), at least in our university.

                        We are talking about different things. No need for an engineer to study as a turner, but a turner as an engineer (practice yes, learn no). An engineer must receive his specialty, a turner - his. The engineer should have a slightly different practice than the turner.
                        Getting crusts about the categories of working specialties for an engineer should not be an end in itself. He must know how the parts are sharpened, how they are milled, which modes to assign, which coolants to apply, how to base the part ...

                        Getting 10 different crusts in Russia is a favorite pastime, but here's how to look for a narrow specialist, a good specialist - trouble. In the end, we all know everything, but they can’t do anything. A person should be diversified, but there should be some specialization where he could say that he is a pro. And it turns out in our country that a person does everything in a row, a turner is a milling machine operator, who the hell knows, well, but when should I read books on design in my specialty? When to study? There are 5 years (now 6), then everything - go wherever you want.

                        I did not say anything about Siluanov.

                        About the abolition of the department of Sopromat, the abolition of workshops - I agree, heresy is utter.
                      2. mkop
                        mkop 1 February 2018 15: 19 New
                        0
                        In general, this is what I wanted to say. Everything is necessary within reasonable limits. And no one says that practice is not needed. But to say that everything should be only at the university is stupid. With any education system, a specialist did not leave the university, anyone after the university needs to study, if you quit training at factories, then the whole result is in front of you all over the country. Not a single university can teach EVERYTHING what you need in life (working, I mean).
            2. Simargl
              Simargl 30 January 2018 14: 14 New
              +2
              Quote: Nemesis
              and not rely on foreigners, especially in the military sectors ...

              Well ... sworn friends do that. Look at Boeing Civil and Boeing Military ...
    2. x.andvlad
      x.andvlad 30 January 2018 12: 33 New
      10
      Quote: Nemesis
      And all the problems from the obsolete machinery and the lack of skilled workers

      Unfortunately, this is the situation in many sectors: shipbuilding, aircraft manufacturing, auto industry, etc. And skilled workers need to be trained and prestigious to do this job, not just in words but in deeds.
      1. sogdy
        sogdy 30 January 2018 14: 25 New
        0
        Quote: x.andvlad
        Unfortunately, this is the situation in many industries:

        Judging by the post, you do not have any familiar machinists. From the word at all.
        Quote: x.andvlad
        Quote: Nemesis
        And all the problems from the obsolete machinery

        The machine park can be brought to the handle, but it cannot become obsolete.
        If so, I have 6 bits on a 6-bit grid. For a short work at the factory.
        1. x.andvlad
          x.andvlad 30 January 2018 15: 50 New
          +2
          And what did you want to express this? What are you many? What is now fashionable or honorable to work at the machine? Or what kind of work can you earn for your apartment, for example?
          If this were so, then in Russia for a long time there were better cars, warships in countless numbers, and aircraft would be produced no less often than Boeng and Airbus. Since all people, including workers, want to live in abundance. And you need to be able to work on good equipment.
          A machine park can become very outdated. The big difference is if you produce products on captured machines from Germany in the 40s, or on the latest-generation machines with programmed control with appropriate tolerances and fits.
          1. sogdy
            sogdy 31 January 2018 15: 45 New
            0
            Quote: x.andvlad
            with appropriate tolerances and landings.

            Tolerances and Landing WHERE? On the machine or on the product? Or do we take the tool into account?
            Really, you speak out as an artist, and not as a mechanical engineer.
            1. x.andvlad
              x.andvlad 31 January 2018 16: 33 New
              +1
              You do not need to be a mechanical engineer to represent what is at stake. It is enough to be just an engineer to know that there is a “single system of tolerances and landings.” Do you pretend that you don’t understand that we are talking about the dimensional accuracy of manufactured products or parts that must comply with this "system"?
              And, of course, I had in mind that on the latest and accordingly not killed machine tool by a competent specialist, accuracy and indentation from the set dimensions will be minimal, which is what modern technologies require.
              1. x.andvlad
                x.andvlad 31 January 2018 17: 14 New
                0
                I agree, maybe I'm a little clumsy and even not quite competently bent at the expense of "tolerances and landings" for such narrow specialists. Well then, sorry.
        2. Fury
          Fury 31 January 2018 10: 19 New
          +1
          Obsolescence of the machinery is obsolescence of technology. You must have come across shovels with CNC on punched tapes and punch cards. These are paper media, made of cardboard and paper tapes, with holes punched in them, in different combinations. You should know how this paper is jammed, how it is standing idle due to this equipment. Yes, and the accuracy and performance of old machines can not be compared with modern ones. And about the fact that the machinery is not only old, but also technically dead, I fully agree.
          1. sogdy
            sogdy 31 January 2018 15: 50 New
            +1
            Quote: Fury
            Obsolescence of the machinery is obsolescence of technology. You must have come across shovels with CNC on punched tapes and punched cards.

            Well, you quote a textbook on political enlightenment. So he is mistaken.
            And yes, it’s worth introducing a control rack device. And not just the appearance in the picture.
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 30 January 2018 12: 42 New
      +5
      High salaries of intelligence and qualifications do not add and hands do not rearrange in their place. You need to start with the education system, secondary (down with the EG), secondary specialized, vocational and higher. Return to the Soviet system.
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 30 January 2018 12: 44 New
        +9
        And I partly agree with you, but even a young specialist should receive a salary that would allow him to live with dignity and not survive in poverty, otherwise the youth will not go to the factories.
      2. Ayratelinsion
        Ayratelinsion 30 January 2018 14: 06 New
        +4
        Yah? And why should I go to the factory after university and get pennies there that you can’t even live on? Work to work?
      3. Simargl
        Simargl 30 January 2018 14: 20 New
        +5
        Quote: Piramidon
        High salaries do not add intelligence and skills and do not rearrange their hands in their place

        High salaries allow you to organize the selection of specialists, and then demand quality!
        What is the use of criticizing the quality of the work done if the salary is laughter?
        1. sogdy
          sogdy 31 January 2018 15: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Simargl
          High salaries allow you to organize the selection of specialists, and then demand quality!

          No, they don’t allow it. What other stupid questions would you like to ask?
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 1 February 2018 01: 17 New
            +1
            Quote: sogdy
            No, they don’t allow it.
            What a fright? Yes, this is not a sufficient condition, but a necessary one. A good specialist, if he doesn’t dump where they pay more, degrades pretty quickly, and non-paymentsless and less.
            Quote: sogdy
            What other stupid questions would you like to ask?
            That was not a question.
            The first thing that happens at low salaries is wild theft (both working time and wealth).
      4. Grits
        Grits 30 January 2018 14: 29 New
        +1
        Return to the Soviet system.
        And also return the distribution system at the end of the university. In any case, those who study on a budget. In the USSR, all this was thought out and there were no distortions in the specialists. When in large cities now is full of graduates who can’t get a job, but in the province there is a hunger strike.
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 30 January 2018 17: 13 New
          +5
          Quote: Gritsa
          And also return the distribution system at the end of the university.

          You will not believe it, but it is there now!
          There are enterprises that "graze" the student from 3-4 courses.
          The trick is that the salary there is not low, as the specialist makes a profit and it is expensive (leading from 3-4 courses to becoming a specialist as needed by the enterprise is another 5-7 years).
          And what do we see at Roskosmos? Engineer job with a stake of 11000 or more RUBLES?! Eleven thousand, Karl !!!
          Yes, for that kind of money, the rockets on the launch pad should fall apart (from holy water)!
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 30 January 2018 20: 41 New
            +4
            At VASO, the real salary of a toolmaker today is 11350 rubles per month (dirty) for 5 categories, the maximum category is 6. A young specialist will be given 3 categories, with a diploma of a technical school, or an institution of higher education 4th category ... Question - How to live on that kind of money and who will go work hard at the plant for these pennies ?!
            1. kromwell
              kromwell 31 January 2018 08: 40 New
              +1
              Generally cool if it's true. We have a fitter of general specialization gets 20, a welder 30 ... 35.
              So youth does not go to the apprentices of welders, because it is dreary in their opinion. How to work like this, so as not to strain)
        2. Nemesis
          Nemesis 30 January 2018 20: 38 New
          +2
          So, conditions must be created in the provinces, but they are not, therefore villages are dying out today, and young people are fleeing them to the city. Even in large provincial cities, it’s a big problem to get settled normally today, but in rural areas this is almost not realistic.
  3. Giant thought
    Giant thought 30 January 2018 12: 16 New
    14
    The logical result of the lack of necessary state control over the work of Roskosmos and its "effective managers", i.e. the liberal economy once again shows its failure before the planned.
    1. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 30 January 2018 12: 50 New
      +6
      Is there a liberal economy in Russia? laughing Seriously? laughing
      But in the USA and Japan, obviously, purely planned?
    2. alstr
      alstr 30 January 2018 13: 01 New
      +4
      It is not only a matter of control, but also that the state has essentially left outer space. And not only ours and not only from space.
      And what is left does not require heavy missiles.
      In addition, look everywhere stagnation (i.e. no breakthroughs):
      - space remained at the level of the end of the 80s
      - cars - almost there - the beginning of the 90s
      - even computer equipment froze at the level of the late 2000s
      - Aviation The latest developments started in the 90s. Fundamentally new is not conducted.

      Now everything is at the mercy of economic efficiency - accordingly, there is no need to develop something new. Perfect the old and cut the coupons. People and so grab.
      This is the position of corporations around the world. Alas, this happened due to the collapse of the USSR, because they still tried not only to pursue efficiency, but also to develop something new.
      And everything new (especially fundamentally) is a continuous loss over a fairly long period of time.

      In this sense, we can be saved by a global war (ALS) or a global mortal problem (the same asteroid or an invasion of aliens), i.e. a situation where profits become fundamentally not important, but the survival issue becomes important.
      1. Overlock
        Overlock 30 January 2018 13: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: alstr
        the state essentially left space.

        but where did it, the state, go?
        1. alstr
          alstr 30 January 2018 14: 11 New
          +3
          Yes, practically from everywhere. And from there, from where it didn’t, it pretends that it is still there. More precisely, it ensures that grandmas can be cut down either by the state itself or by the right people.
          But the most deplorable thing is that this concerns not only us. Look at the USA - there it is the same. An example of F-35 and Zumvolt help us.
      2. axxenm
        axxenm 30 January 2018 15: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: alstr
        In addition, look everywhere stagnation (i.e. no breakthroughs):
        - space remained at the level of the end of the 80s

        .. Your lie - in the field of launch vehicles remained at the level of the late 60s.
        Some progress is only in the filling of satellites.
        1. alstr
          alstr 30 January 2018 15: 38 New
          0
          I meant the whole cosmos as a whole. The last big achievement is the orbital station MIR and the Shuttles (both American and ours). From the satellites of the Hubl.
          And the filling of satellites in fact changed only the element base - nothing more. Now it turns out that there is nothing new on satellites. All that is launched in fact is the replacement of the old ones that have expired. There is nothing new.

          And both here and in the world. This is sad.
          1. axxenm
            axxenm 30 January 2018 16: 23 New
            0
            Quote: alstr
            The last big achievement is the orbital station MIR and the Shuttles

            shuttles are not an achievement. but a garbage dead end.
            orbital stations are also a dead end, albeit one that has given, a small but useful
            1. alstr
              alstr 30 January 2018 17: 01 New
              +2
              I can not agree.
              Let's remember science fiction (the same Star Wars):
              There are also large orbital stations and ships that take off and land on planets many times.
              Another thing is that both are just the first small steps in this direction. But why we (the USA and the USSR) did not move further - this is a big question.
              Here, even while the primary goal has not been fulfilled - the creation of an orbital plant.
              On the one hand, there is a need for clean elements for industry, and on the other hand, there are fundamental technologies for building an automatic orbital plant. But for some reason we are not (well, it’s understandable - there is no money, but you are holding on), but neither the United States nor China have so far threatened this.
              After that, do not believe in the theory of aliens that control our civilization
    3. verner1967
      verner1967 30 January 2018 15: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: Thought Giant
      the liberal economy once again shows its failure before the planned.

      The article talks about how other countries (capitalist, with a liberal economy) bypass our industry and at the same time praise a planned economy ... truly a “giant of thought”))
  4. Berber
    Berber 30 January 2018 12: 18 New
    +5
    I got the impression that there are paid agents. Stalin is not on them
    1. x.andvlad
      x.andvlad 30 January 2018 12: 40 New
      +3
      Dear, you need to learn to work not only in "sharashka" under the supervision of Beria.
      1. Berber
        Berber 30 January 2018 12: 53 New
        +3
        Clear business. But it is very similar to sabotage. And no one is responsible. In fact, we have suffered - ordinary citizens. Because our money was profiled - taxpayer money.
        1. groks
          groks 30 January 2018 13: 54 New
          +2
          There is one sign that allows us to talk about sabotage, and about sabotage, which are not particularly hidden. Launch with a commercial load - in Altai, in the Atlantic, .... And if with people, on the ISS - yes please. With such statistics of launches, the astronauts would have to kick into the ship, but nothing fly.
          1. sogdy
            sogdy 30 January 2018 14: 59 New
            +5
            Quote: groks
            There is one sign that allows you to talk about sabotage

            Nicho that carry on the ISS and satellites pick up on different carriers?
            Protons have not been produced for a long time.
            But we can and should talk about sabotage - both in the field of financing and in the field of production and installation. And they say. But shkolota at this time is busy with others.
            I recall:
            - defective parts that have passed control
            - intentional assembly errors that have passed control
            - the accelerating block of the wrong lane in exchange for the rejected
            - LLC SpetsStroyServis, the remains of which still continue to harm - already on MS-21
            - "strange" banking policy on budget money; during debriefing, the number of banks has tripled
            - lobby in the State Duma and in the field
            1. groks
              groks 30 January 2018 15: 03 New
              0
              I recall:
              To whom? What for?
              This is all on the list, is it only for commercial and it is not for manned? They are made at different plants and even probably in different countries? Truly shkolota.
            2. Berber
              Berber 31 January 2018 09: 01 New
              +1
              Therefore, I say: democracy is certainly good, but the reaction must be harsh, because the law is for everyone. Still, Stalin is needed here.
  5. Goryaev
    Goryaev 30 January 2018 12: 23 New
    +2
    So the earthly glory passes. Apparently Protons are a thing of the past, along with Khrunichev.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 30 January 2018 12: 28 New
      +7
      Well this is a competition. That is, before Proton was a market + there were no particularly competitors (or rather, there were the same clumsy state-owned companies).

      Now everything is changing and changing fast. If you don’t run with everyone, you will lose. While running, only in projects. S7 is buy-sell, they sell exclusively places on foreign missiles, plus a service. No new technology or your own rocket / ship. Roscosmos - operates with more than having no analogue projects 2025-2035 + and give money.
      1. alstr
        alstr 30 January 2018 13: 12 New
        +1
        Not certainly in that way. It’s just that the level of technology necessary for building rockets capable of bringing the average load into orbit has become medium (and not high as before) and, most importantly, cheaper.
        Those. if earlier the USA and We could create the same conditional East, as if they could spend scientific and economic resources on it, now a more or less rich country or even a large corporation can allow it.
        But note that something a little more complicated causes problems. But in fact, the technologies for creating the same heavy carriers and the construction of orbital stations are practically lost and / or even leading countries are not able to reproduce. All projects are again rooted in the late 80s.
      2. Simargl
        Simargl 30 January 2018 14: 35 New
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        Roscosmos - operates with more lacking analogous projects 2025-2035 + and give money.

        Just think about it!
        Roscosmos, as an organization capable of consolidating (so far) a monstrous amount of people, organizations and other resources, requires money (just think! Researches are not free, but fundamental - so in general) in order to try to make high-quality (I hope lacking analogue projects - this it and there is) a leap and move forward with dead (yes, Proton, Union - they are already practically dead, they just talk about Proton for years) points.
        Simply put, you need not only give money, oddly enough, but also to set tasks (and to set them, you need not "effective" managers, but erudite, at least).
        1. sogdy
          sogdy 30 January 2018 15: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: Simargl
          Just think about it!
          Roscosmos ... requires money

          Nothing that requires money already allocated but not reached?
          Read the reports of the UK, a lot of writing for thought.
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 30 January 2018 17: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: sogdy
            Nothing that requires money already allocated but not reached?

            Even worse! Theft in the public sector needs to be equated to treason, and not lisp.
    2. sogdy
      sogdy 30 January 2018 15: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Goryaev
      Apparently Protons are a thing of the past,

      They are 15-20 years old as a thing of the past. But the backlog remained. What are you crying for?
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 31 January 2018 06: 19 New
        0
        Quote: sogdy
        What are you crying for?

        About the outgoing "warm tube" technologies ... or that there is no replacement ...
  6. Klaus
    Klaus 30 January 2018 12: 50 New
    11
    State corporations are the most inefficient way of organizing production. This is parasitism on state money, corruption, nepotism, and at the same time an opportunity to make money on contracts. Well, no liability. Pavel Nikolayevich Grudinin correctly said: bookkeeping in production cannot be higher than the engineering and design corps. And all these “effective managers” are essentially chief accountants with managerial functions. Only the thing is even worse: if it were people, in fact with management skills ... so these are just bureaucrats put on feeding / management, it is not clear by what principle ...
    1. Overlock
      Overlock 30 January 2018 13: 45 New
      +4
      Quote: Klaus
      Correctly said Pavel Nikolaevich Grudinin

      Holy is holy! What are you dragon opponents! Wait a minute!
    2. sogdy
      sogdy 30 January 2018 14: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: Klaus
      Os.korporatsii - the most inefficient way to organize production.

      Or maybe a theory to calculate? From Adam Smith Starting. And then there’s nothing to talk about.
    3. Simargl
      Simargl 30 January 2018 17: 23 New
      0
      Quote: Klaus
      State corporations are the most inefficient way of organizing production.

      You don't seem to have read the stories!
      The cost of the product from the "private trader" is higher.
      And if there is a monopoly - generally extinguish the light!
      1. Klaus
        Klaus 31 January 2018 13: 23 New
        0
        1. Read Dunno on the moon. They are engaged in history.
        2. And what do you mean by "Cost"? How much, for whom? For example: in the modern world, time is the most money! "Hangar" did almost 20 years. AND? The question is not even what is its value in the end ... The question is, what is the PRICE of this long-term construction for the Russian cosmonautics as a whole.
        3. The specifics of the space launch market is that it is global. And in this global market, Roscosmos is by no means a monopolist.
        4. In addition to the delegation of authority from the private to the general, the corporation must have a corporate ethics, corporate production culture and a unified decision-making logic.
        5. The state corporation Roscosmos, cannot boast of most of the above. The reason, in my opinion, is that it was built not on corporate grounds, but on the patterns of a scattered (possibly mixed) manufactory, with an incomprehensible set of beneficiaries.
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 1 February 2018 01: 46 New
          0
          1 - Engaged in masturbation. They study history. Including written sources.
          2 - Cost in accounting and statistics - the value in money of the cost of acquiring or manufacturing an object. In this case, for the state and the taxpayer. If Angara did a private trader, then money would fly away three times more (I think so), and no less time. Unfinished, in fact, always expensive.
          3 - Right! In order to just stand still, you need to run as fast as you can, and we are marking time with the Unions and Protons (the last one has been asking for scrap for 15 years because of reliability and fuel used). No need to be a monopolist - you need to be competitive.
          4 - From general to particular, maybe? And a corporation, by and large, is a state in a state: in a large corporation, the entire life cycle (of a person) can go through, moreover, in an almost socialist regime.
          5 - Oddly enough, we initially had astronautics - a patchwork quilt. How many people have pulled a blanket over us? Well, thanks to Korolev, he somehow managed to pull it on himself and our Gagarin. And sworn friends put one person in charge, got the result and drove out of work (the reasons need to be studied like history), and they themselves took up the cosmonautics differently. So Roscosmos, I believe, is on its way to becoming a state corporation.
  7. Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 30 January 2018 13: 10 New
    +1
    From tse shit recourse
    The legacy of the USSR will soon end / ended, and it’s not enough to replace it that we have ((
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 30 January 2018 14: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: Archivist Vasya
      The legacy of the USSR will soon end / ended

      But is it that rocket science is the legacy of the tsarist regime?
      Damn, well, shkolota divorced. Elementalism is no longer known.
      1. andrej-shironov
        andrej-shironov 30 January 2018 15: 17 New
        +4
        Take it further! Rocket building is a legacy of serfdom, when the landowners dumped serfs from the walls, let them say they fly " wink
  8. SpaceCom
    SpaceCom 30 January 2018 13: 14 New
    +2
    Quite the expected situation! Of course, it’s nice to have your own independent access to space, but if you work with space cabs, then it will not be so long on the sidelines! For some reason, we have a lot of talk about the development of carriers and a complete failure with spacecraft! But it is they that are focused on the end consumer and bring profit! After all, even NTV + and Tricolor are simply renting transponders on other people's satellites! Satellite Telephony - Iridium. Now here is OneWeb with its broadband internet access! And we have Glonass unfinished (you can’t crawl on domestic components) and a couple of connected plus Meteor in the ocean ...
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 30 January 2018 14: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: SpaceCom
      After all, even NTV + and Tricolor are simply renting transponders on other people's satellites!

      But are they "with us"? NTV + in France along with Jewish money. Tricolor - in Israel. They are never Russian.
      1. SpaceCom
        SpaceCom 30 January 2018 15: 43 New
        0
        So it’s even worse ...
        [media = https: //www.rbc.ru/opinions/business/29/01
        /2018/5a6a034f9a79470acdd3e249?from=center_11]
  9. senima56
    senima56 30 January 2018 13: 40 New
    0
    It seems that in this “Khrunichev Center” it’s high time to clean up to identify “enemies of the people and the state”! "Where is the money, Zin ?!"
  10. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 30 January 2018 14: 03 New
    +2
    Quote: Nemesis
    all problems from the obsolete machinery and lack of skilled workers

    I heard this "scribble" 40 years ago: They say the whole point is this - the poor quality of the Lada and other equipment. Where an American worker works to the nearest micron, ours works to the millimeter. Our machines say they do not allow to work more accurately. And our drunken workers do not have such qualifications as Western masters.
    All this lies and provocation!
    Firstly: In the 90-ies, he was convinced himself - Western technologies are basically NOT BETTER THAN FORMER SOVIET. And the equipment is often of the same quality.
    Secondly: The qualification of our average worker in factories is usually higher than that of a western worker. Roughly speaking, our other bitter drunkard will give odds to the “average” worker from the west. Not once noticed this.
    And besides, in the 90 years there was an opportunity to purchase high-precision equipment and train a cheap but skilled former Soviet workforce. And what happened? But nothing!
    The quality of production management is worthless - “effective” managers are dumb “in production matters” like traffic jams, aimed only at filling their pockets.
    1. kunstkammer
      kunstkammer 30 January 2018 14: 20 New
      +7
      PS Sometimes I think: how lucky the billions of Chinese people and the unlucky millions of Soviet people. With such a leadership of the country! With a small territory and a large population, the Chinese on antediluvian equipment managed to lead their country into world leaders. It was then that they had “advanced” technologies, and in the beginning there was a competent management decision.
      These are not the “great” reformers of Russia who have driven the richest and most educated country into a complete impasse.
      1. sogdy
        sogdy 30 January 2018 15: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: kunstkammer
        The quality of production management is worthless - “effective” managers are dumb “in production matters” like traffic jams, aimed only at filling their pockets.

        Yes.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 30 January 2018 17: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: kunstkammer
      And our drunken workers do not have such qualifications as Western masters.
      It so happened that now there is an emphasis on automation. The worker is required to masterfully insert the blank without breaking the machine, by and large.

      Quote: kunstkammer
      And besides, in the 90 years there was an opportunity to purchase high-precision equipment and train a cheap but skilled former Soviet workforce. And what happened? But nothing!
      That is, you didn’t catch the “chip”: engineers and technologists are really working. Their goal is to establish a process, and “low-skilled labor” can support it! The Chinese started from this: they were engaged in servicing production, now, it seems, they understood what the "joke" is.

      Quote: kunstkammer
      The quality of production management is worthless - “effective” managers are dumb “in production matters” like traffic jams, aimed only at filling their pockets.
      And what do you want if the country changed its nomenclature to thieves in power?

      1. kromwell
        kromwell 31 January 2018 08: 49 New
        0
        I agree partially. If this is not a continuous production, then the main jambs on the assembly. And if not yet serial, then also in the components.
        I don’t know what technologies the rocket carriers are going to, but I think that the general technical rule will work here too, that with seriality quality can be drawn within certain limits.
  11. prior
    prior 30 January 2018 14: 15 New
    +3
    With the advent of democracy in Russia, a new ice age began.
    Northern fur animal is successfully settled in more and more new places ....
  12. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff 30 January 2018 14: 23 New
    +2
    And how much does Roskosmos pay Kazakhstan for each heptyl launch?
    International Launch Services (ILS) is an American-Russian joint venture with exclusive rights to the worldwide sale of commercial Angara and Proton rocket launch services. Proton launches take place at the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan while Angara is planned to launch from the Plesetsk and Vostochny Cosmodromes in Russia. ILS was formed in 1995 as a private spaceflight partnership between Lockheed Martin (LM), Khrunichev and Energia. ILS initially co-marketed non-military launches on both the US Atlas and the Russian Proton expendable launch vehicles.
    And in general, if Omsk establishes the production of Angara, what the hell is Russian-American junk used for? Especially - Starts of the "Angara" - also in the hands of the Americans. And what America competitors? How did they destroy Soviet enterprises? Captured for free, then destroyed. So far, we have the masters of the Kremlin’s enemies of the people being controlled from Washington (Western media are scolding them for disguise. And any spy is the most ardent patriot of an enemy country. Like Stirlitz is a true Aryan ....
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 30 January 2018 15: 16 New
      0
      Ap chom, ballesky? About the failed project? The share of "amers" belongs to S7. That is, ALL launches are controlled (actually, carried out) by us. In addition to direct-flow, with which "merchants" indulge, redeeming them from the warrior.
  13. cedar
    cedar 30 January 2018 14: 37 New
    +1
    With such a short memory in sanctions, that is, competitive wars under developed capitalism, where we have gotten into it in all its scope, gentlemen, you cannot survive. They forgot who beat our brain with an IGE hammer and a bachelor's degree, which year, and who the Central Bank is commanding ... And judging by the straightforwardness of your comments, which, if you don’t say exactly what Putin is aiming for, are convoluted by 90%. With such brains not on Earth, not in Space, you cannot survive.
    The war is on, and you are still in peaceful dreams. But the war is not only to destroy our cosmonautics, but also Russia itself and its people ...
    In wartime, you gentlemen slipped with their moans to the complete uselessness of the people.
    Grudinin's vocals, see the root. The war is on. And she will not go around you.
  14. sogdy
    sogdy 30 January 2018 14: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: donavi49
    That's when he puts the stage

    The step he planted S7. Novosibirsk company, if cho.
  15. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 30 January 2018 15: 07 New
    +2
    Urgently give Rogozin a trampoline! Let him even jump if the missiles do not fly.
  16. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 30 January 2018 15: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: cedar
    The war is on, and you are in peaceful dreams

    The whole leadership of the country is in deep sleep: "they are fed well enough, anyway!"
    Namely: the war is on! And they have everything - our Western partners ...
    So if Molotov declared: “On the 22 of June, our western partner Hitler attacked our country! We express deep regret ... "
    PS One of the persons on the Kremlin list from the Government of Russia said interestingly: in response to US sanctions, we will strengthen our business!
    Who would doubt that! He will "strengthen" his business no matter what.
  17. cedar
    cedar 30 January 2018 15: 21 New
    +1
    Quote: kunstkammer
    Deep sleep whole guide countries: "they are fed so well"!


    All but not all. Already in VO - there is enough material to understand this ... If everyone was asleep we would have been cut for a long time, like rams ... And we are still alive and even interpret for the zest ... And what, there’s no one to say thank you for that ?
  18. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 30 January 2018 15: 27 New
    0
    Quote: cedar
    And we are still alive and even interpret for the zest ... And what, for this there is no one to say thank you?

    Thanks to the Native Party for our happy childhood!
    Yes, and for the fact that so far not everyone had a break ... The price of oil gave a delay. But not for long the music played.
  19. cedar
    cedar 30 January 2018 16: 46 New
    +3
    Quote: kunstkammer
    Quote: cedar
    And we are still alive and even interpret for the zest ... And what, for this there is no one to say thank you?

    Thanks to the Native Party for our happy childhood!
    Yes, and for the fact that so far not everyone had a break ... The price of oil gave a delay. But not for long the music played.


    You most likely do not know, from this year on, the Saxon Saxons have introduced a budget rule with us, according to which Russia is allowed to leave 20% of the amount of oil sold abroad in its budget. This is the price of losing sovereignty in 1991 and accepting in 1993 colonial in fact, slipped to us by the blatant Saxons of the Constitution of the Russian Federation.
    In addition to the Constitution, during these 25 years of occupation, the arrogant Saxons blurted us and passed 4000 of their laws through the Duma and Government controlled by them ..! Naturally, not for that, you and those like you have been prospering.
    See the root. The invaders always at all times tore and raped the vanquished. So get and sign ...
    Sovereignty. Russia. Putin
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 30 January 2018 18: 38 New
      +3
      It follows the same pattern as the KFA countries (colonial franc) to which the French leave 15% (they take 85% to themselves) and then these 15% can spend as directed by the French. When the Ivory Coast decided to retreat from France’s “pointers” and made deals of 50-60 billions of dollars, the French quickly replaced the president and staged a coup. Many people died, I myself was at that time in Abidjan.
  20. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 30 January 2018 18: 19 New
    +3
    1. - For all components there should be government orders with the highest responsibility at all levels. 2. - Training of specialists should be at the Soviet level. 3. - Remuneration must correspond to the space industry, and not to the level of the "can-can workshop". 4. - Transfer to prisons of all thieves.
  21. cedar
    cedar 30 January 2018 19: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: tihonmarine
    1. - For all components there should be government orders with the highest responsibility at all levels. 2. - Training of specialists should be at the Soviet level. 3. - Remuneration must correspond to the space industry, and not to the level of the "can-can workshop". 4. - Transfer to prisons of all thieves.


    For all this and much more, about which the electorate is hungry, it is necessary first of all to achieve the sovereignty of the country and as a result of the ruble, credit and budget, and this is only possible if Putin has the support and confidence in carrying out drastic reforms 51% of the Russian population . Again. Not 51% will vote for him in the election of the number of voters, but 51% of the total population. And this will be a choice by the people not of the president, a screen for the power of the oligarchs, which in fact are all presidents in all countries where the plutocrats instill the presidency, and this will be the choice of the Leader of the Nation, to whom the people have given the mandate to carry out reforms vital for the nation, and which the people I am ready to support in word and deed, as well as the reforms themselves.
    Sovereignty. Russia. Putin
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 January 2018 22: 32 New
      +2
      2000 - 2018 zero reform.
      2018 - 2 ...... one hundred reforms. ??? No.
  22. Nemesis
    Nemesis 30 January 2018 20: 53 New
    +3
    Golovan Jack,
    Well, you can’t even die normally with your Putin insurance, the funeral is paid today cost more than 100000 rubles (if it’s very modest), which is very cheap, so the dead will soon be dumped under the Kremlin wall, since there are no funds for the funeral
  23. Antokha
    Antokha 30 January 2018 21: 02 New
    +1
    Khrunichev (I have several relatives from there) in Moscow stands on lands that I VERY want to squeeze out for housing construction. Salaries there are beggarly, the thief is on the thief. They will withdraw production to Omsk, but there are no personnel there. Moscow cadres will not go. Khrunichev can then die. Well, it can be reborn, since it's all from scratch. It happens with us and such. Let's think that we are now in a phase of long harnessing. We must first indulge our head in the push repeatedly (as with the Olympics, sanctions, etc.), so that at some point we finally come to our senses and go. Quickly. There is a reason for this, and it is known.
  24. Nemesis
    Nemesis 30 January 2018 21: 06 New
    +3
    Golovan Jack,
    Right now I opened a Canadian site and once again made sure who you are in life ... Dentist services in Canada are covered by additional insurance that is paid by the employer ... The cost of the operation necessary to save your life and health is covered by state insurance. In Russia, prices for operations hang directly on the walls of hospitals and are paid by the patient, not the budget ...
  25. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 30 January 2018 21: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: cedar
    Quote: tihonmarine
    1. - For all components there should be government orders with the highest responsibility at all levels. 2. - Training of specialists should be at the Soviet level. 3. - Remuneration must correspond to the space industry, and not to the level of the "can-can workshop". 4. - Transfer to prisons of all thieves.


    For all this and much more, about which the electorate is hungry, it is necessary first of all to achieve the sovereignty of the country and as a result of the ruble, credit and budget, and this is only possible if Putin has the support and confidence in carrying out drastic reforms 51% of the Russian population . Again. Not 51% will vote for him in the election of the number of voters, but 51% of the total population. And this will be a choice by the people not of the president, a screen for the power of the oligarchs, which in fact are all presidents in all countries where the plutocrats instill the presidency, and this will be the choice of the Leader of the Nation, to whom the people have given the mandate to carry out reforms vital for the nation, and which the people I am ready to support in word and deed, as well as the reforms themselves.
    Sovereignty. Russia. Putin

    Liberal capitalism, in which the current helmsmen so faithfully believe in the Russian Federation, is in reality an unattainable ideal. And idealists in practical life never succeed, as a rule. Here the failures in the economy and sport are primarily associated with this idealism. It is good that at least in 2014 they began to depart a little from this tangle of idealism - thanks to the "partners", otherwise they would have prayed to the gods brought by them. Although even now most of our "businessmen" are praying for the notorious principles of liberal capitalism and this helps them to take out money that has not been paid for by the people working for them in Russia. Hence the low purchasing power of the population and the level of consumption, which impedes the development of the domestic market. And while the Russian government continues to chew this poisonous chewing gum and obey its “partners,” nothing cardinally good can happen in Russia. And yes - with a nuclear club, we can so far dismiss the "partners" who love us. T.N. the elite themselves are cornered by their clumsy domestic policies and insufficiently solid foreign policies.
  26. Old26
    Old26 30 January 2018 22: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: donavi49
    Now Musk launches the most

    Unfortunately. In 2018, 24 launches of the Falcon-9 v1.2 and 3 launches of the Falcon Heavy are scheduled. We have 15 launches +4 with Kuru. But the missiles were sold to the French, so counting them for our launches will not work.
    As for the proton. The guaranteed launch is really the only one with the Blagovest satellite on March 22. 3 more under a very big question. Two launches of 3 GLONASS satellites each (replacement for Soyuz carrier possible and one with Electro L-3 satellite possible. Whether it will be or not is not yet clear.

    Quote: sogdy
    "Anatoly Zak. Businessman. According to version 59.ru, Anatoly Zak is one of the 5 richest people in the Kama Region. After December 2009, 4, he gained fame as the owner of the Lame Horse nightclub, in which the fire broke out on the night of December 5-2009, 156. claimed the lives of XNUMX people. "
    Expert Adnaka.

    Comrad. I should.... laughing
    At first to upset you
    Secondly greatly upset
    Thirdly scared to grieve

    .... This is not the Anatoly Zak. This is A. Zack, the author of RussianSpaceWeb.com, a journalist by profession. He writes on space topics, collaborates with a number of aerospace publications in the United States. And since 1993 he lives in the USA. Alas, this Anatoly Zak has nothing to do with the "lame horse". And as an expert - yes, his materials are read with interest. Moreover, if he writes, for example, about our new ship Federation, then he considers how he changed over the years. A lot of tables and features
    1. axxenm
      axxenm 30 January 2018 23: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      In 2018, it is planned ... and 3 launches of Falcon Heavy

      another fantasy mask ...
      February 6 will not be a successful launch of FH guaranteed.
      as well as the absolutely crazy intention to make a manned flyby of the Moon on Dragon Crew will not be fulfilled.
      Musk got into the taste of ochlocratic manipulations.
      Well, thieves' sharazhka Roscosmos without changing the comprador power of the Russian Federation in Russia cannot be put on the right path.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 31 January 2018 02: 07 New
        +1
        "February 6 will not be a successful launch of FH guaranteed." What is such confidence based on?
        1. axxenm
          axxenm 31 January 2018 07: 42 New
          0
          Quote: Vadim237
          "February 6 will not be a successful launch of FH guaranteed." What is such confidence based on?


          On the fact that I won all the debates on, very predictable, flight delays, Falcon Heavy and Dragon Crew ...
          But I can’t bet with anyone on the delay of the SLS flight - no one wants to put NASA bureaucrats on the flight of this monster
    2. axxenm
      axxenm 31 January 2018 11: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Comrad. I should....
      First upset you
      Secondly, greatly upset
      Third, scary upset

      what kind of foolishness? are you 13 years old? or vice versa 63?
      just in case, I’ll clarify - this "brilliantly humorous" appeal was not to me - I am not at all interested in the personality of A. Zak.
      Quote: Old26
      And as an expert - yes, his materials are read with interest. Moreover, if he writes, for example, about our new ship Federation, then he considers how he changed over the years. A lot of tables and features

      Moreover, I am not interested in “experts” writing about the “federation” as a technical project - the “federation” is a thieves-wide project imposed by politicians of the comprador Russian Federation, and I hope that it will never materialize and there will not be enough time to steal bureaucrats on it.
  27. Old26
    Old26 31 January 2018 09: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: axxenm
    another fantasy mask ...

    Alas, comrade, alas. These are not just another Mask fantasies, as much as we would not like to believe in it. This is an objective reality. Falcon-9 flies since 2010. And over the years it spreads as follows
    • 2010 = 2 starts
    • 2011 = there were no starts
    • 2012 = 2 starts
    • 2013 = 3 starts
    • 2014 = 6 starts
    • 2015 = 7 starts
    • 2016 = 8 starts
    • 2017 = 18 launches (20% of all launched missiles in 2017)
    Why do you consider the 24-step launch of the Falcon-9 rocket to be fantasies? Is there anything objective to prevent this from happening ??

    Quote: axxenm
    February 6 will not be a successful launch of FH guaranteed.

    I would not be so categorical in the assessment. A delay is possible in principle (it was now, EMNip was originally scheduled to be launched in December), but whether it will be or not is a "roulette game".
    1. axxenm
      axxenm 31 January 2018 11: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Quote: axxenm
      another fantasy mask ...
      Alas, comrade, alas. This is not just another fantasy mask.
      and followed by a long, boring, boring list of Falcon 9 launches ....
      Are you deliberately juggling or just an inattentive sloppy rush?
      I wrote only about FH ::
      Quote: Old26
      In 2018, it is planned ... and 3 launches of Falcon Heavy
      Quote: axxenm: another fantasy mask ... "
      I like the Falcon 9 (in the RIGHT DISPOSABLE OPTION)
      both according to the concept (tandem scheme, the same simple cheap and, accordingly, reliable engines at all stages, etc.), and judging by the statistics of launches, execution,
      but I fiercely despise Mask’s ochlocratic manipulation strategy,
      when, considering the general public a dumb cattle
      with memory a little longer than fish
      with the aim of constant coverage in the information space of his activities,
      creates hype by throwing crazy ideas, such as the mythical "reusability", hyper-loops, manned flyby of the moon in 2018 and landing on Mars in 2024.
    2. axxenm
      axxenm 31 January 2018 11: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Alas, comrade, alas. These are not just another Mask fantasies, as much as we would not like to believe in it.

      Unlike you, I don’t want a neighbor to die a cow, but I want them to have 50 goals.
    3. axxenm
      axxenm 31 January 2018 11: 29 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Quote: axxenm
      February 6 will not be a successful launch of FH guaranteed.
      I would not be so categorical in the assessment. Delay is possible in principle (it was still there, EMNip was originally scheduled to be launched in December)

      Still, your memory is cheating - it was not planned for December 2017 initially, but for the last time - after the numerous, easily predictable delays that have been a frequent chain since 2013 (this was originally the case).
      Therefore, I repeat - there will be no successful launch of FH on February 6, 2018.
  28. cedar
    cedar 31 January 2018 12: 36 New
    +2
    Quote: voyaka uh
    2000 - 2018 zero reform.
    2018 - 2 ...... one hundred reforms. ??? No.


    I did not expect such shortsightedness from you ...
    Already a military reform over the aforementioned years, a regular in the military district could be discerned.
  29. Guillon
    Guillon 31 January 2018 13: 28 New
    +1
    In Soviet times, the Protons were the best, and the current ignoramuses and provocateurs turned it into trash! angry The main task of the collapse of the space industry of the Russian Federation is almost completed! am Who is at the helm ?! Who to put on the count ?! These are well-known surnames, so our business is bad. soldier
  30. Kyzmich
    Kyzmich 31 January 2018 15: 10 New
    +1
    The author, today is January 31, 1918.
    What's up with your head?
    What for 18g?
  31. Aleksey60
    Aleksey60 31 January 2018 18: 22 New
    +1
    Unfortunately, the expert is lying like a gray gelding!
    At least 2018 Proton M launches are planned for 4
  32. Umnichka
    Umnichka 31 January 2018 18: 29 New
    0
    The article was written not by an expert, but by an "effective manager." American Atlas does not fly for so many years - and what? The article is taken out of context, designed for an illiterate and emotional layman — such an “expert” at a meeting of some Navalny. Such bawls in 1917 rocked the country, instead of evolution, a revolution was obtained.
  33. karelia-molot
    karelia-molot 31 January 2018 18: 48 New
    0
    Then they decided to conduct a census of morons, not otherwise?
    learn who the space power is here: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%
    D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B8%
    D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85_%D0%B7%D0%B0%
    D0%BF%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%B2_2017_%
    D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%83
    For reference - manned launches are shown in bold there.

    Further - along the Proton. This is a HEAVY rocket (23 tons in low orbit). This flies only with the Americans (heavy Falcon-9). Everything else is trifles from 5, 10 and sometimes 15 tons.

    And then they raised all the gwalt - FSEPROPALO !!!
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 31 January 2018 19: 38 New
      0
      Oh so
      the parentheses indicate the load capacity when delivering cargo to the DOE.

      United States "Heavy 4 Delta-28,7" (up to XNUMX tons)
      People's Republic of China “Changzheng-5” (up to 25 tons) - since 2016.
      Russia "Proton-M" (23 tons) - adopted by the USSR in 1965.
      European Union "Arian-5 ES" (21 tons)
      United States Falcon 9 FT (up to 22,8 tons) - since 2015.