Law enforcers decide to check the base of the Argentine Navy Mar del Plata

At the facilities of the naval base Mar del Plata (Argentina) arrived an expanded commission of law enforcement officials. The check on the basis of the Navy, where the submarine San Juan, which had disappeared more than 2 months ago, was supposed to arrive, was authorized by the federal court of Argentina.

Police officers are checking in four sectors of the naval base, including the logistics management sector, as well as the command of the submarine forces of the Argentine Navy.

Argentine newspaper El tribuno writes that the check at the facilities in Mar del Plata is carried out after a personal meeting of the Minister of Defense of the country Oscar Aguada with 27 family members of the military team of the missing San-Juan diesel submarines. These people do not leave the territory in the area of ​​the naval base in the hope of receiving from high-ranking military officials and base command the answer to the question of what actually happened to the submarine. Also, the relatives of the sailors demand to inform them about the whereabouts of the submarine “San Juan”.

Recall that the Argentine Navy submarine stopped contacting 16 in November last year. It is reported that at the time of the last communication session, the DEPL commander reported problems related to a short circuit in the power supply system. On board the submarine were 44 man. The submarine made the transition from the south of the country to the base of Mar del Plata.

The fact that the police specifically are going to clarify for themselves and the Argentine public during a check at a military site is not reported.

Comments

[oleg-gr]

Investigation of the death of the boat promises to be long. Searches did not yield a positive result.

[Giant thought]

Checking the base two months after the death of the submarine is from the series - after the fire, why the pump?

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: oleg-gr

Investigation of the death of the boat promises to be long. Searches did not yield a positive result.

Like the downed Boeing in Ukraine .. And the Kursk submarine in Russia, etc. etc. etc ...
Maybe they even found it, but the "world media" will not say the reason, and Russia is already head over heels for their problems ..
These are the things on the Russian nuclear submarine!

[Svarog51]

Vitaly, welcome
For the first I do not mind.
According to the second - ours are searched there, they will find - they will be made public. Those who had a hand in the death of the boat will be silent in a rag.
According to the third - I was also pulled, the Premier League is an EMERGENCY submarine. Atomic is PLA. Well, this is not my whim - it is so customary in the Navy.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Svarog51

Vitaly, welcome
For the first I do not mind.
According to the second - ours are searched there, they will find - they will be made public. Those who had a hand in the death of the boat will be silent in a rag.
According to the third - I was also pulled, the Premier League is an EMERGENCY submarine. Atomic is PLA. Well, this is not my whim - it is so customary in the Navy.

Hello, Sergey ! Something I was not missed in the first scripture ... (again, I’m chatting, which should not be ..)))

Quote: Svarog51

According to the third - I was also pulled, the Premier League is an EMERGENCY submarine. Atomic is PLA. Well, this is not my whim - it is so customary in the Navy

On account of this, the first time I hear. I am a layman in this!
And on the account of Argentina, my opinion is unequivocally drowned ..!

[Svarog51]

Vitaly, on the first point and I have a lot of questions, but we are not talking about that.
I read about submarines and submarines in the comments of submariners, I can give a link to the author. I, like you, became a curiosity, I am also not a naval.

And on the account of Argentina, my opinion is unequivocally drowned ..!

Here I will refrain from evaluations until the situation is clarified. It may well be that you are right. But wait for the result.

[cniza]

Sergei , I'm certainly not a submariner, but

Nuclear submarine (nuclear submarine, submarine) - a submarine with a nuclear power plant.

[Svarog51]

Victor, good evening In general, I have nothing to do with the fleet, we have a common thing in the service - only water. I would not drive a gag, I quoted the submarine officer. I can give a link to a specific person, but this is superfluous, you already know him.

[cniza]

I do not argue, but it is very narrow - professional, rather slang expression, as the latter does not say, but only the extreme one, etc. , according to the documents of the Premier League.

[Svarog51]

Well, for me, as a person far from the Fleet, the opinion of the commander of the warhead-5 submarine "Smolensk" is an indisputable truth. Moreover, to some extent we are colleagues - he is responsible for rescue operations on the submarine. And in his comments it sounded more than once. Read Alexey's comments with the nickname annodomene.

[Veteran]

Greetings, Seryozha! Excuse me, but comrade from Smolensk is too categorical. Military abbreviations accepted in open communication are not approved by any official document, they are simply accepted according to the principle of abbreviation of words-names according to their first letters (here they should not be confused with abbreviations established by closed documents, for example, according to the tactical classification of the Navy ships there, they are approved by departmental documents and can be changed by them as the Navy develops, and are used in the manufacture of tactical documents (for example, on maps). The list of open military abbreviations contains abbreviations of both submarines and submarines, and the submarines can be either a nuclear submarine or an emergency submarine, depending on the context. Another feature - the submarine abbreviation tacitly usually used for the general designation of our nuclear submarines, and the submarine - at the mention of foreign. More specific abbreviations: PLAT - torpedo, PLARK - with cruise missiles, but: SSBN - designation of foreign ballistic missile submarines, and SSBN - strategic missile submarine - a national submarine with an ICBM. Now there are new abbreviations - MAPL (multipurpose), NNL (non-nuclear), although the old - DEPL - has remained.
In principle, the list of military abbreviations was given by the “Military Equipment of Russia” portal, and my description corresponds to it. So bother with these terms is not worth it.

[Svarog51]

Yuri Alekseevich, I welcome you and thanks for the clarification. I will know for the future what yes how.

[siberalt]

It would be a desire, would have long been found.

[faiver]

our near space is better studied than the depths of the ocean ...

[newcomer]

probably only our rescuers are looking for a submarine. the rest is not profitable, they hide something, such an impression.

[264]

Sailors with Peace Calm down a long time ago at the bottom of the Sea. Do not touch their Sins Sinful .......

[newcomer]

I don’t understand you at all! ??

[264]

There is no need to discuss what, why, how ... Pray for their Souls is necessary, given to the Sea ...

[newcomer]

There is no question of discussion. here is the desire of relatives to find a submarine and humanly say goodbye to relatives.

[Logall]

Garik , FIG knows who is looking and who is not looking ... It is possible that the inhabitants of other countries say the same thing. But it’s clear that the case is Dark!

[newcomer]

Alexander, welcome! Yes, there is such a sediment. but the fact that relatives took their leaders by the throat and pulled the sleeve of the GDP tearfully begging, we must at least find the place of death and the submarine itself for the work of experts. and according to my latest data, only our ship regularly plows the seabed in search, the rest of the “finders” waved long ago.

[Svarog51]

Garik You're right about everything. Everyone has already withdrawn their search forces. Relatives of the deceased sailors turned to their president with a request that Russia continue its search. Even their own Navy does not conduct a full-scale search. The corvette allocated for our "Panther Plus" has a non-working sonar. The matter there is more than "dark."

[water]

It is difficult to disagree with your arguments - the matter there is really more than "dark"! At the same time, a feasible analysis of the forces of search and rescue support (PSO) of the actions of submarines of all fleets of the world gives a "sad" result. It turns out that the matter of saving the submariners of all states, with the exception of Russia and China, is captured by the Americans. They, in every possible way, advertised their modular rescue complex assembled on the basis of a remotely controlled underwater vehicle (DUPA), which during the period from 15.11.2017 to 01.12 2017 of the year could not be deployed in the area of ​​the disappearance of the boat, they compelled the military leadership of almost all the states with As part of their fleets, submarines destroy their ships - Submarine Rescuers and switch to the US NPS.
An analysis of our blogosphere shows that in Russia, too, the matter of saving our submariners is also "obscured". And, as it is not surprising, they are especially involved in the disintegration of the existing and imposing on us of the American organization of PSO some sites and non-profit organizations of submariners !? In St. Petersburg, at the 2017 International Congress of Submariners held in June 54 in June, it was announced that it was necessary to exclude “unnecessary” consultations and approvals from the organization of assistance to the emergency submarine. In June, it was announced, and in November clearly demonstrated in Argentina - neither the Minister of Defense of Argentina, nor the President of the country received any notifications about the disappearance of the submarines, but learned about the incident from the press. It turns out a kind of "globalization" of the PSO forces of the actions of submarines of all states under the control of the United States. And what this threatens with our component of the nuclear triad, if it falls under the influence of the United States, is clear to the dogger.
Based on the foregoing, it is quite understandable why Argentine law enforcement agencies became suddenly interested in Argentine submariners.

[Svarog51]

Vladimir, welcome Of course, I don’t know the entire sub-assembly, but why did they start to move so late? System operational and emergency communications does not work? And one more thing - that I’ve never heard that someone from the authorities was punished, especially a high one, for the death of their ship. And the search for the boat is somehow sluggish. The main underwater work will be deployed when the boat is discovered, but something is not observed by the Argentinean command of special interest in finding the boat. All forces and means are not pulled into the search area. The sabotage is continuous.

[water]

I believe that American patrons will cover up their Argentine agents of influence. A submarine !? “But who knows?” Maybe she really died and they will find her. Maybe its disappearance is a simple hoax, it’s just that the Americans decided to form a new ISIS, only marine, underwater. After all, a state-of-the-art combat submarine opens up the broadest prospects for various kinds of provocations on sea lanes.
Are you talking about sabotage !? - Sabotage is not only in Argentina. Sabotage is with us. Now it’s becoming quite clear: why in 18 years after the Kursk disaster we were able to build only one Submarine Rescue vessel.
The Americans have many paid assistants in Russia!

[Svarog51]

Vladimir, hello Your version of events in the current international realities fits into the picture of the world. But I don’t really want terror to move into the oceans, and therefore - a boat must be found and this question must be removed. Otherwise, there will be an additional danger in the water.

[taiga2018]

Quote: newbie

probably only our rescuers are looking for a submarine.

after the tragedy with the Kursk apl, we probably only understand how important it is for relatives to know at least the place where their relatives died.

[newcomer]

do you believe that without our last grave loss, we did not understand the importance of what you are talking about?

[Anarchist]

In the taiga, there is little at all that is understood in such matters!

[Svarog51]

Sanya, welcome Take the semaphore from the flagship - “combat alert hang up”.
What are the manners to engage in hostilities at the admiral's hour?
This is not ethical. And here I myself can quote:

[vlad66]

Quote: taiga2018

after the tragedy with the Kursk apl, we probably only understand how important it is for relatives to know at least the place where their relatives died.

The place of death of the Kursk was known and the depths were 110 meters, here the place and depth are not known Well, of course we understand relatives.

[APASUS]

Actually, it’s a strange situation, it seems that the Argentine command is not very interested in revealing the secrets of death. So far, only the relatives of the sailors are besieging state bodies in the hope of continued search work

[faiver]

do you read the argentinian press

[APASUS]

La Nación is a daily Argentinean newspaper. She is the leading conservative newspaper in the country, and her main competitor is the Clarín newspaper. Addresses to give or find yourself?
Here's an interesting piece from an article about a submarine:

Ese 15 de noviembre el ARA San Juan había informado la entrada de agua de mar cuando realizaba el snorkel y estaba cargando baterías, en momentos de gran oleaje. El agua se dirigió por el sistema de ventilación a una bandeja de conexión de las baterías de proa provocando un cortocircuito y humo que, según se reportó el capitán al comando superior, fue subsanado, lo que determinó que siguiera namegand Mar del Plata.

[Orionvit]

Quote: APASUS

Here's an interesting piece from an article about a submarine:

This version with a battery malfunction and a short circuit, went from the very beginning. The Argentine press did not say anything new. I’m interested in something else that they want to discover at the base? For two months, if there was some kind of "crime", for a long time everything was cleaned up.

[APASUS]

Quote: Orionvit

I’m interested in something else that they want to discover at the base? For two months, if there was some kind of "crime", for a long time everything was cleaned up.

What could they clean up if the conversation was about replacing the batteries with new ones, but still the old ones remained? According to the papers, everything is probably clean and that’s why they probably don’t want to lift the boat

[Herculesic]

In fact, only the Russians who lost in peacetime more than one boat with the crew can understand the Argentine mothers and widows of the crew of the deceased submarine! Maybe ours will find their last resting place!

[faiver]

well let’s put not only Russia / the USSR lost submarines in peacetime

[Herculesic]

It just so happened that during the years of the Cold War we lost the most boats and crews in the world! It is terrible because people in the depths can perish at any moment, and even the places of their death will never be found!

[iliitchitch]

Everything is familiar. "A scent, like a dog, and a look like an eagle." Argentine prosecutors in search of an asshole on duty. Someone will drown after the submarine. And no one else will remember those who were there, except relatives. Case closed, game over.

[pvv113]

site verification in Mar del Plata

It would not hurt to check out the Ushuaia naval base, from which the submarine was heading to Mar del Plata

[faiver]

for what to check?

[pvv113]

For the completeness and quality of work on preparing the boat for the transition, as well as the potential for external intervention. In aviation, for example, such a check is common practice.

[faiver]

is it too late?

[pvv113]

Again, compare with aviation - some investigations have been going on for more than a year. The issue is not the timing, but the objectivity and completeness of the investigation.

[Svarog51]

At the final point there is nothing to check at all, but at the point of departure - yes.

[Veteran]

Your truth, Seryozha, the point of departure must be checked. But here we must also take into account the administrative features of the Argentine Navy - the boat was assigned to the Mar del Plata base, and there could be formed the main documentation on the organization of the repair of submarines, the conclusion of contracts, etc., so perhaps the verification should really start with it, and continue at the point of sending specific artists. Only something too late, they took up the matter, "dark tails", something, probably, have already tried to clean.

[Svarog51]

Yuri Alekseevich, and do they really have no analogues of the Special Departments and the Military Prosecutor's Office in the Navy? They immediately had to beat to begin investigative activities, and not wait for the treatment of relatives.

[Veteran]

Seryozha, Argentina has a peculiar system of supervision, quite different from ours. As such, the military prosecutor's office and special departments there. Everyone is in charge of civilians. Control over the power structures of the country is exercised by the Cabinet of the President. Financial and economic control - General Chamber of Audit. The counterintelligence functions are performed by the State Secretariat for Intelligence - SIDE, it’s also the country's main intelligence agency, which performs the functions of intelligence and counterintelligence. But now she is more concerned with all anti-terrorism activities. So there is no such control over the Armed Forces as we have with Argentina.

[Veteran]

Under civil law, I first of all had courts, especially federal ones. By their decision and carried out all sorts of checks.

[Svarog51]

Well, this is just one of the reasons for the tragedy. The court is not a quick matter, but in an emergency, operational services must act, which are not in Argentina. Am I confused anything?

[Veteran]

Yes, Sergei, I agree, the courts are not a quick matter, and there is clearly not enough operational military services here. But we must bear in mind that the Argentines suffered severely during the reign of the military junta, after which they had to carry out reforms to drastically reduce the influence of the military on public affairs.
However, I think this should not be considered the cause of the tragedy with the submarine. But to quickly deal with its causal link, of course, it does not contribute.

[Svarog51]

Yuri Alekseevich I am more and more inclined to the idea that the Argentine Navy Command the truth about the tragedy of THEIR boat is not needed. Apparently, too, "snout to the pooh." Maybe even the relatives of the dead sailors will achieve the truth. All this is sad.

[Monarchist]

What do they think: "the boat is hibernated there"? Joking as a joke, and law enforcement there t.spoputno many can "dig" there.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Monarchist

What do they think: "the boat is hibernated there"? Joking as a joke, and law enforcement there t.spoputno many can "dig" there.

Sweep the tracks ..? In London and Washington, “you need to dig” .. In general, it’s better to turn to Russia, we have everything there .. They just won’t believe it!

[Svarog51]

R'RёS,R ° F "RёR№

В London and Washington "need to dig"

I, too, have suspicions about the Falkland conflict, but having no evidence, I will refrain.

[Veteran]

Svarog51,
Totally agree with you here, Seryozha.

[Svarog51]

Yuri Alekseevich Is Argentina really so in a deplorable state that even the search for a dead ship cannot provide the necessary forces?

[Veteran]

You see, Seryozha to assess the current state of the Navy of such a remote country is quite difficult. As for the presence of NK, then they are in the ranks of 4 EM Ave. MEKO 360 (actually frigates) with 1983-84, 6 Крв Ave MEKO 140 (of Espor type) with 1985 - 2004. and 3 Crv type A-69 "Dammond" with 1978 - 82. These are the main BCs of the maritime zone (the rest of the BCs and Ka may not be taken into account for search purposes), however these are 13 ships. Some Western experts believe that the state of the ships is mostly critical, of which the reasons indicate wear and tear, low combat readiness due to lack of spare parts due to import restrictions, financial problems. Destroyers are mostly in port. There are suitable auxiliary fleet vessels - in the 4 rescue tugboat formation, 2 hydrographic ship, oceanographic ship that can be involved in searches - also 7 ships. According to the latest data from Argentina are involved 4 plav. units (probably 1 BK and 3 of the ship), one of which carries our Panther, the 5 th party is Yantar. Why they no longer select for search - a question to which I have no answer.

[Svarog51]

Yuri Alekseevich Look how much information you have, but there is no answer. Well, this is understandable - it’s not you who should make decisions for the Argentines. There is an overview article on accidents involving diesel-electric submarines related to batteries on the next Arms branch. Something in it directly indicates the incredible number of forces and means involved in the search for San Juan. But the main thing is not clear who the author is - our from the site or from the side. You do not have any information on it?

[Veteran]

No, Sergei, information on Lodkin VS I do not have. It is quite often published on the IEE, where it is listed as an independent military expert, mainly on naval issues. From there, all his articles migrate to other publications. In general, the surname of Lodkin in shipbuilding circles is known, by its ancestor, Lodkin, Sergey Ivanovich. But the connection of Lodkin Vladimir with this family is not traceable. Maybe a pseudonym.
And according to the number of participants, his information in the article is outdated. All other countries, except Russia, have curtailed their search tools.

[Svarog51]

Yuri Alekseevich Alexander "Boa KAA" Alexander already told me about the author in another article. And about participation in the operation to search for a boat of foreigners - too.