"Infernal thresher" is seen in the role of a Syrian tank support combat vehicle

Anti-aircraft self-propelled artillery ZSU-57-2 again lit up in Syria. This time, the combat vehicle, nicknamed the Hell's Thresher, was used in conjunction with medium tanks T-55 government troops, reports Messenger of Mordovia.

“We can say that the ZSU is now acting as a kind of support vehicle. The unique characteristics of firepower are provided by two 57-mm automatic guns C-68. Anti-aircraft guns are capable of producing up to 120 shots per barrel per minute. You will not envy those who find themselves under this hellish “rain” of steel, ”writes material author Dmitry Lemeshko.

According to him, self-propelled guns are capable of striking even modern tanks into the board, not to mention the BMP and armored personnel carriers, gantracks and mined cars. The range of ground targets reaches 4 kilometers.

Engine power В-54 - 520 hp, maximum speed - up to 50 km / h, power reserve - 400 km. Machine weight - 28 tons. Crew - 6 man.

“It is said that the Syrian military regret that by the beginning of the war most of the ZSU-57-2 were written off. If there were more, then the CAA’s ability to destroy terrorists would increase significantly, ”the author concludes.

Comments

[Mountain shooter]

This anti-aircraft gun is a descendant of the anti-tank ZIS-2. Her and the Tigers were afraid

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Military Review ● News
"Infernal thresher" is seen in the role of a Syrian tank support combat vehicle

it is unlikely, among the "fuel oil", at least one will wish them "long summers", accompaniment without a "shilka" or ZSU-57-2 ... Lyokha .. ". Alex TV" - tell me? you Caucasus "traveled", your authority, do not argue.

[Now we are free]

Brushing away the stingy male tear, he climbed to read the latest news about the domestic AU-220 ...
When already, when 57 mm will be installed at least on the Barberry (BMPT)? Not to mention BMP "Kurganets"? ..

[Genry]

So hezh "Derivation":

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Now we are free

When already, when 57 mm will be installed at least on the Barberry (BMPT)? Not to mention BMP "Kurganets"? ..

You better think about how much this gun will cost, it's not only additional vehicles for the delivery of ammunition, it is not only the gigantic cost of ammunition, it is also an increase in the number of amphibious equipment due to a decrease in the volume in it. This AU-220 will be golden! And then the same story will turn out as with artillery when the towed artillery in the "cost-effectiveness" parameter does not take into account the cost of the tractor or take into account but without reservation in the civilian version ...

[Skifotavr]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

Quote: Now we are free

When already, when 57 mm will be installed at least on the Barberry (BMPT)? Not to mention BMP "Kurganets"? ..

You better think about how much this gun will cost, it's not only additional vehicles for the delivery of ammunition, it is not only the gigantic cost of ammunition, it is also an increase in the number of amphibious equipment due to a decrease in the volume in it. This AU-220 will be golden! And then the same story will turn out as with artillery when the towed artillery in the "cost-effectiveness" parameter does not take into account the cost of the tractor or take into account but without reservation in the civilian version ...

Ammunition is somehow being delivered to the BMP-3.

[ProkletyiPirat]

compared the ass with the finger, there the size of the ammunition is smaller, and the landing is again with a gulkin nose.

[Skifotavr]

Is 100mm smaller? As for the landing, there is already a separate conversation. You didn’t write about the whole composition here. Although without an effective weapon on the battlefield, the landing party inside will be fun if there are more of them: BMPs are not armored personnel carriers. Although in Russia and armored personnel carriers are used as infantry fighting vehicles. And what do you suggest? How in that song “let's leave everything as it is and be what happens”? Modern western infantry fighting vehicles can no longer penetrate 30 mm with Russian cannons, but they are armed with powerful 40 and 45 mm rounds with sub-caliber shells, the old 30 mm also have sub-caliber shells, and in Poland they even produce 23 mm sub-caliber shells capable of piercing the BMP-3 frontal armor. In Russia, there is nothing of the kind and is not planned. They just write that in the year 2020-2040, maybe they will begin to make a plan to think about whether it's time to think about something. The same “Kurganets” and “Boomerang” with old 30 mm cannons and old shells will probably always be cut to them.

[ProkletyiPirat]

in the same place there is also a hundredth, a hundredth which has only a dozen shells, a hundredth which has no possibility of either mounted or howitzer shooting, oh, yes, exactly, it’s a cannon, and it is needed for direct fire, only BMP \ BMD does not have armor to travel for direct guidance on the fortifications. And so "all is well beautiful marquise, all is well, all hOOroshooo." in the same place VVOOT such a gun

[Skifotavr]

Well, yes, I understand, the BMP-3 with a 100 mm gun is also in the landfill. But you did not answer what you offer. Although I guess that you are for the complete disarmament of Russia. But this will be our secret.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Skifotavr

Although I guess that you are for the complete disarmament of Russia

do not drag your nonsense to me

Quote: Skifotavr

what do you offer.

Are you military? Are you a manufacturer? Are you ready to give money for research and development? on the design of analytical calculations and the calculations themselves? I think the answer is clear that there isn’t, so I don’t see any reason to paint everything. Physically, such a comment will be very long and useless, but if we cut back some of the information, we will not understand each other, and in general, why should I do MO work for free? It’s their job to do analytics, they don’t pay me or pay for it.

[Skifotavr]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

Physically, such a comment will be very long and useless, but if we cut back some of the information, we will not understand each other, and in general, why should I do MO work for free? It’s their job to do analytics, they don’t pay me or pay for it.

Very convincing ...

[Dreamboat]

And how much do you value your life, probably 100 rubles? And the lives of soldiers who will remain without proper fire support? The war is expensive, but it will cost many times more money to the one who saved on his army ....

[ProkletyiPirat]

Is this a good reason to push trilliards into pre-worthless projects?

[Svarog51]

Is this a good reason to push trilliards into pre-worthless projects?

Hey, how is it? And not much embellished it? Old Soviet stocks were delivered to Syria and the ZSU-57-2 “spoke up”. A place in the warehouses under the new freed. And if you take into account all the "Nona", "Veins", "Octopus", "Msta" and tanks, and even rockets and bombs to add - is this how much dough you get? Such finances have not yet been used by financiers. Do not overdo it with the "fill", the wrong contingent on the VO.

[ProkletyiPirat]

So it’s one thing to fuse any illiquid into third countries ("ZSU-57-2"), and it’s quite another thing to develop and produce this illiquid! You go up the comments line, there it was a question of a new 57mm gun and its installation on BMP \ BTR

[Svarog51]

Are you talking about Derivation? So this is a new module and new ammunition. Quite a project for the replacement of 30 mm trunks. Opportunities and effectiveness are much greater. What doesn’t suit you here? The old people are used in Syria, but they release their warehouses and are developing new weapons. Everything is logical.

[Skifotavr]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

Is this a good reason to push trilliards into pre-worthless projects?

Trilliards? Do you know a larger figure? Trolls like you are undoubtedly a cheap project, but how useful is it?

[aws4]

there is nothing Dear nothing common with ZIS 2 there is not only a caliber ... zis2 will be abruptly

[CentDo]

Do we have them left in storage? If you stayed, then you could throw the Syrians.

[Lexus]

You can modify a couple of pieces to test new shells, including with programmable detonation and adjustable, for A-220M.

[dog breeder]

Quote: CentDo

Do we have them left in storage? If you stayed, then you could throw the Syrians.

It would be possible to upgrade if it is so “hellish"!

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: dog breeder

It would be possible to upgrade if it is so “hellish"!

keyword "if"

[Svarog51]

It makes no sense. Other technologies used. And in Syria, it already works great - a demobilization chord, so to speak.

[Dreamboat]

We need to study this experience to develop the BMPT theme! A 57 mm high-explosive shell is incomparably more effective than 30 mm. Yes, and the penetration ability of bz shells is several times higher than 30 mm.

[Maz]

And yet, the installation has an awesome trunk lift angle. It turns out a dual purpose, like the aerial targets for a loop, like the ground targets.

[ProkletyiPirat]

how do you see a drone at a height of a couple of kilometers? and hell you will get into it without a fire correction radar.

[Svarog51]

The speed of the UAV is small. For a couple of kilometers, he is visible in optics. And anti-aircraft shells with remote detonation were still used in WWII. These "dragonflies" pair of fragments - "for the eyes and ears" is enough. It is still a killer car for them.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Svarog51

For a couple of kilometers, he is visible in optics.

That is, do you propose to single out several dozen fighters who will look into the sky in 24/7 mode and look out for points that can be UAVs?
And again, without the pleasure of correction, even remote detonation will have a high projectile consumption, and most importantly, the cost of these shells will be commensurate with the cost of the UAV. So the proposed system "machine-gun-shell" is unsuitable for tactical and economic parameters. In my opinion, the MO, or rather those who made up the TTT \ TTZ to this tool were not involved in analytics, but as always they wrote "like those only bigger and cheaper", and the developers also did not do analytics and made "any whim for your grandmas " In summary: there is a project, there is a projectile, there is a gun, there is a machine, tests have been completed, money has been spent, and the benefits are zero, or even a minus.

[Svarog51]

A small "BUT". If you are considering a specific situevina, then the armor of the attack was multiplied by zero. Personally, my opinion is that 57 instead of 30 will work better, but this is IMHO. And one more thing - the consumption of shells will not exceed the cost of protected aircraft. The life of pilots who did not fall under the attack of an UAV is even more expensive, I would say - is priceless.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Svarog51

Personally, my opinion is that 57 instead of 30 will work better,

I completely agree, but again, we need cheaper and more effective ammunition with remote detonation.

[Svarog51]

Well, they started using it in WWII. Radio fuses were already discussed here. The only thing I do not know is whether they are in the caliber of 57 mm.

[ProkletyiPirat]

There are different fuses with a remote detonation system. Radio fuses are not that, they require external irradiation of the target with a radar and that this target would have a large EPR, with drones it is not effective, because in new devices for remote detonation they use programmed fuses, i.e. fuses with a chip in which ultra-precise clocks are built in, plus systems for contactless adjustment of the detonation time are built-in. All these difficulties increase the cost of the projectile and the complexity of its production. At the same time, these shells can only be used against UAVs against infantry; they become ineffective. In general, here developers run in a circle and can not break it.

[Svarog51]

Well, I’m not an artilleryman, I won’t argue about the technical subtleties of fuses of shells of anti-aircraft 57-mm guns. The Second World War used a simpler method of detonating an anti-aircraft projectile. How they are used in Syria - I do not know. But judging by the reports - very successfully. Apparently the conditions are very similar, since it turns out. And one more thing - these anti-aircraft guns also fire at ground targets, and two 57-mm barrels are much more effective than 30-mm.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Nope (in Syria) they do not use remote detonation, there these guns (zsu-57-2) are used to destroy fast artisanal targets and to create fire to suppress and barrage fire at a great distance. But in reality, all this does not mean the best effectiveness of these funds, but rather the use of what is.

[Scoun]

Quote: Dreamboat

Yes, and the penetration ability of bz shells is several times higher than 30 mm.

But!!! A queue of 30 mm guns stops the tank and the tank loses all the “body kits”, maybe it’s worth investing in the quality of shells in technology?
And so it’s possible .... well, to establish a "marine" caliber, he doesn’t need penetration .... it’s a tank, together with a shell, to a hair dryer.

[Dreamboat]

Quote: Scoun
But!!! A queue of 30 mm guns stops the tank and the tank loses all the “body kits”, maybe it’s worth investing in the quality of shells in technology?

1. The tank “stops” only under very favorable circumstances, and with a greater probability the carrier is 30 mm. the guns perishes with the crew (and the landing party), without even reaching the effective fire range ....
2. It is always necessary to invest in the quality of shells and technology, but there are 1) the physical limits of armor penetration of 30 mm. shells, which at the moment have actually been achieved in modern BOPS of NATO countries (and there 30 mm shells are more powerful than ours); 2) a tendency to increase the security of "light" armored vehicles (STANAG 4569).
You can save on the cost of shells, you can try to squeeze the maximum out of the available weapons (what should be done to maintain the competitiveness of existing equipment!), But the prospect should be taken soberly.
In 1943, without re-equipping the T-34 in time from 76 to 85 mm. guns, the new German tanks had to shoot almost "sea" calibers. That science was given in great blood to forget it ....

[Scoun]

Quote: Dreamboat

2. It is always necessary to invest in the quality of shells and technology, but there are 1) the physical limits of armor penetration of 30 mm. shells, which at the moment have actually been achieved in modern BOPS of NATO countries (and there 30 mm shells are more powerful than ours); 2) a tendency to increase the security of "light" armored vehicles (STANAG 4569).

All true.
But?
A. Improvement of ammunition is necessary.
B. No one will, for example, make a 75-caliber sniper and a 30-caliber assault rifle.
B. Everyone and everyone has their own sphere of activity and did not write that to Tank! Need trunk size
.... sausages?
We must be aware that we destroy tanks or fight with light equipment, infantry and at the same time we can hit the tank hard.
PS.
The nonsense is that the tank can hit 5km and the gun 30mm ..... well ... ten))))
Their tasks for them and 50 or 60 mm is not a panacea.
Gavel and Sledgehammer.

[Simon]

The unique characteristics of firepower are provided by two 57-mm automatic guns S-68. Anti-aircraft guns are capable of firing up to 120 rounds per barrel per minute. You will not envy those who find themselves under this hellish “rain” of steel, ”writes the author of the material Dmitry Lemeshko. Yes, the Soviet military-industrial complex used to produce good cars. The Syrians have discovered a lot of new in the application of these combat vehicles

[Simon]

Quote: CentDo

Do we have them left in storage? If you stayed, then you could throw the Syrians.

So, can scour the back streets, then you can find.

[san4es]

“They say that the Syrian military regrets that they wrote off most of the ZSU-57-2 by the beginning of the war.

[Captain Nemo]

In the rain it was sickening to the crew)))

[san4es]

Quote: Captain Nemo

In the rain it was sickening to the crew)))

[svp67]

“It is said that the Syrian military regret that by the beginning of the war most of the ZSU-57-2 were written off. If there were more, then the CAA’s ability to destroy terrorists would increase significantly, ”the author concludes.

So what's the matter then? It's time to withdraw the Derivation arena ... and show its capabilities.

And with luck, you can also think about “Tree-2” ... based on the T-90 or T-14, for the promising BMPT

[svp67]

Quote: svp67

It's time to withdraw the Derivation arena.

By the way, under this module, you can use the chassis of the T-54 \ 55 tanks, and even the T-34, which are still abundant there

[Svarog51]

Namesake, You are a tanker. If you stuff the “Merina” stuffing into the “UAZ” - all the same, “Gelik” will not work. Characteristics, energy, and even the diameter of the shoulder strap is different. It will be expensive.

[svp67]

Quote: Svarog51

and the diameter of the shoulder strap is different

Yes? And what is the problem in the alteration, especially in the T-54 \ 55? Yes, NO

[Svarog51]

The module itself is expensive. There is no problem, you can do it. In our army, it is not needed, but for Syria it is expensive. WELL AND WHAT SENSE?

[svp67]

Quote: Svarog51

In our army, it is not needed

I need it. On its basis, completely different methods of fighting the same UAVs can be worked out.

[Svarog51]

I'm not talking about the module, but about it I will adapt on the chassis of old tanks. For our army, it will be put only on a new chassis. The module is of course needed, or rather the installation itself.

[svp67]

Quote: Svarog51

, but about it I will adapt on the chassis of old tanks

For us, maybe not, but to potential buyers, yes.

[Svarog51]

Well, of course it is possible. If the buyer agrees to pay, it can be adapted on the chassis of Almaty. What for? But to bring a module, say, to Vietnam and mount it there on a T-55 chassis is somehow not cost-effective.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Svarog51

But to bring a module, say, to Vietnam and mount it there on a T-55 chassis is somehow not cost-effective. request

On the contrary, this is just the most cost-effective way to do it with modules.

[Svarog51]

Well, if Vietnam has all the necessary capabilities at a tank factory, then yes. And if not, then shove everything from Russia and mount it in place and on your knee? And what quality do we get? The module can be replaced on the technique provided for such a replacement, and so is a gamble.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Well, why at once an adventure, the combat modules are valuable in that if they are correctly implemented, they can be easily and quickly installed, another thing is that the developers often do these modules incorrectly. Developers sometimes like children think that if you put a gun, a camera and attach a pickup system, and then call it a module, then everyone will immediately run to buy it. But in reality, this is not so, the module, although it is easier to produce and install, but it requires more investment in analytics, and this is precisely what neither the MO nor the manufacturers often do, what we have abroad. A striking example is that everyone uses USB, because there is nothing easier, but this simplicity is deceiving, behind a simple small plug there are a huge number of people who conduct analytical support.

[Svarog51]

Namesake, here you are somewhat mistaken. By virtue of my education, I have some idea about the operation of the drive. EPiAPU - electric drive and automation of industrial plants - this is the name of my specialty. The vertical drive can be inserted into the module, but the horizontal drive is only on the chassis. In addition to the power unit, there is still a bunch of control signals from the sensors, and these are wires. Of course you can squeeze to a minimum. But still a lot or the response speed is losing. And how to put a modern module into an outdated chassis? First you need to adjust the diameter of the turret shoulder strap, and then hang the sensors on the armor and bring their data to the controller. How? Will you mount in the field? This I have far from voiced everything.

[ProkletyiPirat]

everything that you described is true, and I know it, but you are talking about the symptoms, and I'm talking about the pathogen. That is, about the primary source of the problem, and the primary source is the lack of analytics, this absence leads to problems when something is not taken into account, or taken into account only in 2-3 options, and there are hundreds of these options, all this leads either to a lack of standards in general or to their complete futility, and sometimes harm to the final product.

[Svarog51]

Well, the causative agent in Syria is a war. Everything that is available goes to business there. There are a lot of "crafts" of various kinds there. But you must admit, to drag only a module into Syria, put it on a chassis that is not very suitable and prepared, and then use it in combat, is not like ice. It is logical to deliver the finished machine there and conduct comprehensive tests, while all the elements of the new machine will be tested. But in case of fatal damage to the chassis (pah, pah, pah, so as not to jinx it), you can try to attach the module to another chassis. But it is up to the testers to decide.

[ProkletyiPirat]

everything that you describe in relation to Syria is incorrect to attribute to the modules, because the essence of the modules is not to put on the first available equipment, but to remove dependence on one supplier and sub-supplier, or to assemble equipment from the best element of different suppliers.

[_TANKIST_]

In the background, isn't it the 62 that exploded in the previous news?

[ICT]

Quote: _TANKIST_

Isn’t the 62 that exploded

there it’s kind of like t-55 and it’s obvious even to me the automotive technology

[Sergey-8848]

If there is no ammunition, then it makes little sense to keep in service.
Withdrawn from service, refused support and supplies.

[Svarog51]

Well, if it works, it means they’ve got ammunition. In the news, even ZiS-2 in Syria lit up. So there is ammunition for them and delivered.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Svarog51

So there is ammunition for them and delivered.

rather written off.

[Svarog51]

Similarly, we are debited, Syrians are supplied and spent as needed. Otherwise, they would have to be disposed of.

[SPLV]

gantrach

The farther into the forest, the more of these "gantrahs." Every day, the administration of the site more and more freely deals with the Russian language. Editing is more careless.
And the car is really outstanding, if after so many years it shows its effectiveness. Western Europeans are increasing the caliber of their equipment - both 40 mm and 50 mm, and we only have exhibition samples, even Kurganets with 30 mm, not to mention BMPT. But, this is so, the saying of an amateur ...

[Hammerlock]

oh, you didn’t read the headlines in the TAPE, but the text ....

[Strashila]

Refine based on the latest achievements of fire control, make protection against ATGM and RPG grenades ... both mounted and optic, develop a protidron shell ... so that there is a cloud of many tiny fragments ... but a lot, a lot ... equipped with a radio fuse.

[Captain Nemo]

An ideal tool to combat shahid arba on the basis of any car and BMP

[Scoun]

Quote: Captain Nemo

An ideal tool to combat shahid arba on the basis of any car and BMP

And what is Shilka not ideal for dealing with such devices?

[serg.shishkov2015]

It seems that the third advent of the 57-mm caliber is coming to our army, Or is it already the 4th, taking into account the S-60, ZSU-57 and AK-726?

[Dzafdet]

What I do not appreciate, having lost crying ...