Military Review

He was destined to put an end to the war.

183
He was destined to put an end to the war.



An entire generation of Russians grew up, who saw Marshal of the Soviet Union Ivan Konev only in photographs and most often in formal portraits. Therefore, a verbal description of the commander, one of the creators of our victory, left to descendants Konstantin Simonov seems appropriate: “It was worth seeing for the first time, as it immediately came to mind: this is the real old Soldier. Though the marshal. Deep, firmly carved over the years features of a somewhat rustic face. Smart calm eyes of something that just did not see in his lifetime man. He was not in uniform, but in civilian clothes, and was equally like a retired steelworker or a still working collective farm chairman. But most of all on the Soldier. ”

On the way of Konev, everything happened. Together with the people, the commanding staff of the Red Army and the Red Army masses, he experienced not only the triumph of victories, but also the bitterness of defeats.

In May, 1941, when the Soviet Union smelled gunpowder, Lieutenant General I.S. Konev, who had previously commanded the troops of the North Caucasus Military District, was ordered to form the 19 Army in the Cherkassy region from the formations and units and prepare it for war as a reserve for the USSR People's Commissar for Defense. A few weeks later, this army heroically and sacrificially from July to September held back large enemy forces in the strategic battle of Smolensk. Together with other associations of the Western Front, it did a lot to thwart the plans of the Hitlerite command to break through to Moscow.

The most difficult test for the entire war fell to the lot of Ivan Konev, already a colonel-general, in September-October forty-one. The western front, which he commanded, along with the Reserve and Bryansk, could not withstand the enemy's concentrated blows, and most of his armies, including the 19, which was especially expensive for him, in the Vyazma region were surrounded.

In that dramatic for I.S. Konev moment army general G.K. Zhukov, first appointed representative of the Supreme High Command with the broadest powers, and then commander of the Western Front, which absorbed the remnants of the troops of the abolished Reserve, asked I.V. Stalin appoint Konev to his deputy. Konev, as a military leader with the potential of a commander, was given to a man who was endowed with a talent of a strategist and an outstanding will, a relatively independent sector — the leadership of the Kalinin group of troops, which was transformed into the Kalinin Front in October.

This front, led by Konev on the Selizharovsk and Torzhok directions, stopped the enemy’s offensive, holding down the 13 divisions of the Army Group Center. They were never transferred to Moscow. During the counteroffensive, the front forces, with skillful actions, knocked the enemy out of Kalinin and drove them first to 60 – 120 kilometers, and then further away to Rzhev. For I.S. Konev was entrenched with the reputation of a commander with exceptional organizational skill, decisiveness and a strong will. On the long and thorny path to victory, his glory has only grown stronger since then, his name has become overgrown with legends.

Exploring the military journey of the holder of the Order “Victory”, twice Hero of the Soviet Union, Marshal of the Soviet Union Ivan Stepanovich Konev, historians made eloquent calculations: from 1.418 days during which the Soviet-German front existed in World War II, Konev spent on it 1365 days and nights . 72 days at the command post of the 19 Army and 1293 at the command posts of the Western, Kalinin, North-West, Steppe, 2 and 1 Ukrainian Fronts. None of the other Soviet military leaders during the Great Patriotic War commanded the front-line forces for as long as Ivan Konev, who entered the war as a lieutenant-general, and in February 1944 of the year he wore marshal shoulder straps.

Management experience at the tactical, and then operational level, Konev acquired by working hard on himself for many years. During the First World War, he mastered artillery in the school non-commissioned officers. In Civic, he showed himself in a different capacity: the commander of the detachment, the commissar of the brigade and division, the headquarters of the People’s Revolutionary Army of the Far Eastern Republic. For five years he commanded the 50 rifle regiment in Nizhny Novgorod.

To the Military Academy named after MV Frunze, at its special faculty, I.S. Konev entered from the post of commander of the rifle division. After graduation, he was sent to Belarus, where he commanded a division and corps. Then it was time to gain experience in managing large military formations: in the winter of 1937 – 1938, Konev commanded the Special Group of Soviet Forces in Mongolia, a year later - the 2 of the Separate Red Banner Far Eastern Army, then troops of the Trans-Baikal and North Caucasian military districts.

I.S. Konev happened to lead the front forces in more than 40 offensive operations.

Researchers have argued, not without reason, that the superiority of Soviet commanders over the Germans, although it did not manifest itself immediately, not in the first months of the war, was based precisely on their rich and diverse military practice.

In the Battle of Kursk I.S. Konev commanded the troops of the Steppe Military District, July 9, 1943 renamed the Steppe Front. The Steppe Front was faced with the task of preventing a deep breakthrough of the enemy from the side of Orel and Belgorod, and during the counterattack, increasing the power of the blow from the depths. However, the situation was such that part of the forces of the Steppe Front had to be sent to strengthen the Voronezh Front. Thanks to the operational actions of I.S. Konev’s task set by the Supreme High Command Headquarters was resolved as soon as possible, and under Prokhorovka the Nazis unexpectedly ran into our tank army and in a fierce oncoming battle lost up to 400 of their latest tanks and assault guns and about 10 thousand soldiers and officers killed.

From 3 August 1943, the Stepnoy Front, together with Voronezh, launched a counteroffensive on the Belgorod-Kharkov sector. Two days later, the troops of the Steppe Front drove the enemy out of Belgorod, and in the evening of August 5 Moscow saluted the winners for the first time.

For I.S. Konev was characterized by a constant desire to surround the enemy, dismember his troops and break into parts. He sought to do this by planning and conducting most of his operations, and, as a rule, he achieved success. His commanding talent was revealed with particular fullness in the Korsun-Shevchenko Operation, where he, in cooperation with the troops of N.F. Vatutin surrounded and defeated more than ten enemy divisions in the “cauldron”. Not less skillfully, the encirclement operation was conducted under Brody (8 enemy divisions were in the ring), south of Rützen (20 thousandth garrison), in Glogau, where 18 thousands of Nazis fell into a trap, in Breslau with its 40 thousandth garrison, in the area Opelna, where they were forced to take the last battle around Hitler's 5 divisions. And in the final of the Great Patriotic War, commanding the 1-m Ukrainian Front, I.S. Konev did everything he could to surround the half-millionth group of Nazis in Berlin and south of the capital of the Third Reich, and then even a larger group in the Prague area.

Stories it was pleased that in the last operation of the Great Patriotic War - Prague, a special role fell to Ivan Konev. Operation with 6 on 11 May was carried out by three fronts - 1-th, 4-th and 2-th Ukrainian. But it was the troops of 1-th Ukrainian, headed by I.S. Konev broke into Prague and, together with the fighting squads of the Czechs, cleared it of the enemy.

“It seemed,” wrote a brave tanker, twice Hero of the Soviet Union, General D.A., after the war. Dragoon, - that he, the front commander, squeezed out of the tanks and of us, tankmen, everything we can do. His bold rearrangements and decisive maneuvers of tank corps, whole armies during the battles ... sometimes seemed unexpected not only for the enemy, but also for the performers. "

For this figurative certification of his commander, who was valued and loved by the troops, the whole was Ivan Konev, a lad from the Vyatka province, a peasant son, ascended by fate to the number of the brightest commanders of modernity.
Author:
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http://www.redstar.ru/index.php/2011-07-25-15-55-35/item/35518-emu-bylo-suzhdeno-postavit-tochku-v-vojne
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  1. avva2012
    avva2012 3 January 2018 06: 52
    10
    Thank. These are the “boys” who broke all these baron backgrounds, broke the Prussian bones)).
    1. 210ox
      210ox 3 January 2018 07: 53
      +2
      He put an end to the war in the West .. In the East, the battle continued ..
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 3 January 2018 08: 31
        13
        The harsh Yamato, against the Bolsheviks, too, somehow, were not so harsh.
        It turned out that the country needs to be small, to educate the people, normal food and self-esteem. And before such a people, not the children of the gods, not the great-grandchildren of the Nibelungs, they will not resist.
        1. verner1967
          verner1967 3 January 2018 09: 15
          +3
          Quote: avva2012
          It turned out that the country needs to be small, to educate the people, normal food and self-esteem. And before such a people, not the children of the gods, not the great-grandchildren of the Nibelungs, they will not resist.

          you see, the French in 1812 were fed worse, and the Finns in 1939 - better)))
          yes and
          Quote: avva2012
          Harsh yamato
          The Kwantung army by 1945 were not so harsh
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 3 January 2018 09: 19
            +8
            Quote: verner1967
            you see, the French were fed worse in 1812, and the Finns were better in 1939

            The result is one and the other-LOSED. So give 1939, for the "victory" of the Finns, a real FALSE.
            Quote: verner1967
            The Kwantung army by 1945 were not so harsh

            And they crushed them. And this is the main reason for the defeat of Japan, and not the atomic bombing of cities.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 3 January 2018 09: 22
              +7
              Werner apparently liked it. Now from article to article will oppose, inserting their ten cents / ruble?
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 4 January 2018 06: 16
                +4
                Article ---- certainly ++++++
                Quote: avva2012
                Werner ....... Now from article to article he will oppose, inserting his ten cents / ruble?
                Well, yes, well, yes, I put in 10 kopecks --- $$$$$ earned money for kids on milk. It would not have been disgusting, but read his comments. Of course, it’s clear that the person works, that he has a production plan %%% %% of this plan, tries, overfulfills, the topic of articles, the manner of commenting, namely in the technique of chattering --- everything speaks about this. As soon as patriotic comments appear, he immediately tries to belittle, to chat. For other readers to quit and leave. An employee specifically works. And, he looks like someone previous to this babble. On whom? Often I missed the troll chatter --- don't remember ....
            2. verner1967
              verner1967 3 January 2018 09: 24
              +2
              Quote: badens1111
              for the "victory" of the Finns, a real FALSE

              So the Finns did not win, but the Red Army did not reach the goals
              Quote: badens1111
              And this is the main reason for the defeat of Japan

              ha ha! Well, well ... this is the last touch in this victory, yes, but not the main one.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 3 January 2018 09: 46
                +5
                Quote: verner1967
                So the Finns did not win, but the Red Army did not reach the goals

                Do you swear mom?
                1. verner1967
                  verner1967 3 January 2018 10: 06
                  +3
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  Do you swear mom?

                  What does your mom have to do with the facts? Look at the plans of the Red Army command and what they have achieved, compare. Everything is simple. Yes, and read what Voroshilov was removed for, really for a brilliant victory?
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 3 January 2018 10: 17
                    +7
                    Quote: verner1967
                    What does your mom have to do with it

                    You can’t even here without moving around ... or with reading the problem?
                    The army was supposed to solve those problems that did not work out in a political way ..... Although if you know what the Soviet leadership of that time did not know, you can develop your alternative ideas more ...
                    1. verner1967
                      verner1967 3 January 2018 10: 21
                      +3
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      You can’t even here without moving around

                      where do I distort?
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      Although if you know what the leadership of the USSR did not know

                      rather, on the contrary, you do not know what the Soviet government knew. And again, Vroshilov ....
                      Comrade Voroshilov, being the People’s Commissar of Defense at that time, was forced to admit at the Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) At the end of March 1940 the inconsistency of his leadership
                      What is it like? A brilliant victory with an insolvent commander? It’s like diarrhea for constipation.
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 3 January 2018 10: 28
                        +5
                        Quote: verner1967
                        where do I distort?

                        Yes, where a lot ...
                        Quote: verner1967
                        What is it like? A brilliant victory with an insolvent commander?

                        But what victory must be necessarily “brilliant?” If just set tasks are completed, then everything is not a victory?
                2. avva2012
                  avva2012 3 January 2018 10: 12
                  +3
                  Bair Irincheev, is your head? Here is Briand ....
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 3 January 2018 10: 19
                    +4
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Bair Irincheev, is your head?

                    What can he know there rummaging through the archives?
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 10: 25
                      +5
                      And do not say, I would connect, like some, to the energy-information field, and voila, the result puffed out in the inter-space space.
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 3 January 2018 10: 34
                        +3
                        Quote: avva2012
                        I would connect, like some, to the energy-information field, and voila, the result puffed out into the interstitial space.

                        Yes, you are a sorcerer - they do so, and do not care that there are people who can say life put it, they say ...
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 11: 52
                      +6
                      That not. This can be seen with an unprofessional look. It is not in vain that for 25 years children were taught at school that they are exceptional personalities with their own opinions. Here on the pages of VO and reap the fruits of education.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 January 2018 13: 39
                        +1
                        Good afternoon, Alexander! And you and I were taught at school that we are not trembling creatures, and that "we are not slaves, we are dumb slaves." And suddenly - you deny the human right to their own opinion ?!
              2. The comment was deleted.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 3 January 2018 10: 31
                  11
                  Quote: Town Hall
                  Stalin's goal was the destruction of Finland as a state in the form in which it existed.

                  Was Joseph Visarionovich personally telling you? And what if diplomats had only sought to transfer the border before, was it stupid to cover up bloodthirsty plans?
                  1. verner1967
                    verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 01
                    +3
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    Did Joseph Visarionovich personally tell you this?

                    not Stalin.
                    The commander of the Leningrad Military District (Leningrad Military District) 2nd-level commander Kirill Meretskov and a member of the Military Council of the district, 1st Secretary of the Leningrad Regional Party Committee Andrei Zhdanov stated in their order on the day of the attack on Finland: “We are not going to Finland as conquerors, but as friends and liberators of the Finnish people from the yoke of landowners and capitalists ”
                    why the loyal Stalinist Otto Kuusinen, a responsible Comintern worker, was sitting in Moscow with a group of comrades of Karelian-Finnish nationality, for which on November 11, on the eve of the war, the formation of the 106th rifle division of the commander Axel Antill from Soviet Ingermanlanders, Karelians and Finns began, and two weeks later on the basis of the "Finnish" division ended the acquisition of a special national corps? Probably, it was easier to move the border. By the way, the operation took only 20 days, and how many fought?
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. verner1967
                        verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 31
                        +2
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        What are you then poured beads?

                        well, I just didn’t know that you also belong to those in front of whom it is not recommended to pour it, sorry.
                    2. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 3 January 2018 11: 34
                      +7
                      "as soon as they give you a shit, something unreadable, unintelligible, and unreliable will come from you immediately." - how true it is written about you .... re-read more often.
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                  2. Comrade Kim
                    Comrade Kim 5 January 2018 03: 56
                    +2
                    Not just transfer, but exchange of territories.
                    Finland would receive more than it gave.
                    But the stubborn Suomi came to their senses only when the falling Molotov Breadbox howled over Helsinki.
                2. avva2012
                  avva2012 3 January 2018 10: 32
                  +6
                  Oops! That is, it was necessary to occupy a country with a hostile population? And then, what, puff, puff, including Finnish Katyn? So I.V. Stalin and the CPSU (b) had a diametrical ideology, in contrast to the liberal fascist. The mistake was the leadership of the USSR in that they did not take into account the possibilities of punitive Mannerheim. There were no "Reds", but the rest managed to rinse the brains, as in Germany.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 3 January 2018 10: 38
                    +6
                    Not in sports - the energy-information field knows better ... it knows better even the leadership of the USSR itself that this leadership wanted ...
                    1. Town Hall
                      Town Hall 3 January 2018 10: 56
                      +2
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      Not in sports - the energy-information field knows better ... it knows better even the leadership of the USSR itself that this leadership wanted ...



                      Immediately after the outbreak of the Winter War, O. Kuusinen was appointed head of government and foreign minister of the “Democratic Republic of Finland”, on behalf of whom he signed the “Agreement on Mutual Assistance and Friendship” on December 2, 1939, despite the fact that his government did not controlled the capital of Finland - Helsinki.

                      Towards the end of the war, due to the refusal of the USSR Government to take over the territory of Finland, the Kuusinen government was dissolved.


                      Speak up the boundaries?
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 3 January 2018 11: 05
                        +5
                        Well, here's another bunch of beads ...
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 11: 56
                      +5
                      Am I arguing? How can I argue bacon with developed blond personalities / beast / dem., Ugh, confused.
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 3 January 2018 12: 04
                        +5
                        Quote: avva2012
                        How can I argue bacon with developed blond personalities / beast / dem., Ugh, confused.

                        Take it higher - a heap thrower that has a direct connection to the energy information field.
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 12: 12
                      +4
                      Much higher? Is Nietzsche smoking nervously?
                  2. verner1967
                    verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 05
                    +3
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Oops! That is, it was necessary to occupy a country with a hostile population?

                    Yeah, here is a discovery for you !!! ))) And why is it hostile? We went to free him from the yoke of the landowners.
                    A lot of lies over the years
                    To confuse the Finnish people.
                    Open now trustingly to us
                    Halves of the wide gate!

                    Neither the jesters nor the fools scribblers
                    Do not embarrass your hearts anymore.
                    Your homeland was taken more than once -
                    We come to return it.

                    We come to help you deal
                    To pay with interest for shame.
                    Take us, Suomi is a beauty
                    In a necklace of transparent lakes!

                    And this is part of the song with which the soldiers of the Red Army went into the arms of the Finnish brothers.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 3 January 2018 11: 16
                      +5
                      Quote: verner1967
                      And why hostile?

                      I’ll probably surprise you, but if it weren’t hostile, then I probably would have agreed at the deep level ... and this, like Vyborg, was in the know ...
                      1. verner1967
                        verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 50
                        +2
                        Well, yes, in hindsight .... after the thrashing, it dawned that no one was waiting for the Red Army there with open arms.
                    2. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 3 January 2018 11: 59
                      +4
                      Quote: verner1967
                      Well, yes, in hindsight .... after the thrashing, it dawned that no one was waiting for the Red Army there with open arms.

                      Are you connected to the energy-information field again?
                      1. verner1967
                        verner1967 3 January 2018 12: 09
                        +2
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Are you connected to the energy-information field again?

                        no, it’s easier, I read the press of those years, a song. again, in vain you ignored her. And then, in 20 days, one county does not occupy a hostile country.
                      2. avva2012
                        avva2012 3 January 2018 12: 16
                        +6
                        What, you dull, right! It is said, by a backward mind. Do not argue with a specialist, otherwise it will be overtaken with beads.
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 12: 01
                      +5
                      We walked ...
                      We walked. Who are you talking about? Have you united yourself with the Soviet people now? See how the beads would not get a stake after such an accidental statement.
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 3 January 2018 12: 12
                        +3
                        So there seems to be, judging by the smell of soft beads ... natural ...
                      2. verner1967
                        verner1967 3 January 2018 12: 15
                        +3
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Have you united yourself with the Soviet people now?

                        and you still do not dare?
                    4. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 3 January 2018 12: 16
                      +3
                      Quote: verner1967
                      in 20 days, one county does not occupy a hostile country.

                      So you didn’t want to occupy?
                      1. verner1967
                        verner1967 3 January 2018 12: 23
                        +4
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        So you didn’t want to occupy?

                        they wanted, they just thought that the Finns would suddenly want to go to the collective farms themselves, throwing the landowners off their shoulders
                    5. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 3 January 2018 12: 30
                      +6
                      mat-vey 3 Today, 10:31 ↑


                      Was Joseph Visarionovich personally telling you? And what if diplomats had only sought to transfer the border before, was it stupid to cover up bloodthirsty plans?
                    6. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 12: 55
                      +5
                      Does the anti-Soviet unite himself with the Soviet people? Remember the bath and the cross? So, here, in this case too. Or, you, as in that proverb about a fish?
                    7. Monarchist
                      Monarchist 3 January 2018 16: 32
                      +3
                      Werner, thanks for the song: I didn’t know that
                      1. parusnik
                        parusnik 3 January 2018 18: 57
                        +3
                        A fairly well-known song of the Pokrass brothers, the words of Anatoly d'Actil (Frenkel), a famous songwriter, such as the March of Budenny’s horsemen, Everything is fine marquise, the March of enthusiasts .., Mu-mu, Steamboat, Song of friendship .. Take us, Suomi beauty .. Suomi beauty was a song-ideological response to the Finnish song agitation No, Molotoff! . True, when the world was signed with Finland in 1940, the song was suspended. But it sounded again in 1941. It was "forgotten" again when Finland became a Western "friend" of the USSR.
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                  2. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 3 January 2018 11: 01
                    +4
                    Indeed, you and your "beads" really need to go to places more simply, and not to ....
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 12: 04
                      +3
                      Alas, they are not sent to places now. Until.
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 3 January 2018 12: 08
                        +4
                        In simpler terms, this is for a "censor" which, well, or for YouTube at least.
                        PySy do not need it in those places ... and there it will be thrown - before the leadership .. already beads.
                      2. verner1967
                        verner1967 3 January 2018 12: 10
                        +2
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Alas, they are not sent to places now. Until.

                        but you can’t wait to wait, I suppose we see ourselves on the tower lol
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 12: 20
                      +2
                      So he was there, but the field was turned off. He told everyone in the article, "The Stalingrad Mission of Dr. Royber," about this fact.
                      PySy: knock, knock?
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 3 January 2018 12: 21
                        +2
                        Quote: avva2012
                        PySy: knock, knock?

                        Well, yes ...
                  3. avva2012
                    avva2012 3 January 2018 12: 58
                    +3
                    I suppose we see ourselves on the tower
                    What a deep familiarity with the topic! Learn further Fenya, suddenly and really come in handy.
                    About Konev, is there something to say, or has the beads ended?
                4. Monarchist
                  Monarchist 3 January 2018 16: 26
                  +6
                  Town Hall, you said a little rude and not entirely accurate. Stalin did not initially set out to destroy Finland: "in the form in which it existed." If he wanted it, he would have achieved it.
                  He was a practical man, when the Finns “didn’t get their shots”, he really wanted to “reformat” them at once, and for this he got Kuseynen out of his “pocket”, he still believed in the fantasies of Lenin and Troitsky that the proletariat was indulging in the ideas of the world revolution. Then Stalin realized that the finals of the world revolution and socialism are not interesting. If he were so stubborn, what prevented him from landing Kuseynen in 1944-45 in Helsinki? Just think of the extra tens of thousands of Red Army soldiers to lose, but to get the Karelofin Soviet Socialist Republic. No, Stalin was a practical leader and he did not become stupid
                  1. Town Hall
                    Town Hall 3 January 2018 16: 44
                    0
                    Quote: Monarchist
                    Stalin did not initially set out to destroy Finland: "in the form in which it existed." If he wanted it, he would have achieved it.



                    He wanted to destroy Finland as an independent state and turn it into the N-th Soviet collective farm.


                    Quote: Monarchist
                    If he were so stubborn, what prevented him from landing Kuseynen in 1944-45 in Helsinki?




                    Tehran, Yalta and Potsdam prevented him
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 17: 19
                      +7
                      Tell, in what way, did they interfere? Especially Yalta.
                      You overestimate the role of the allies, in my opinion and do not understand the communist ideology. With the power of the Red Army in 1945 and with the pro-Soviet attitude of their own peoples behind their backs, the heads of the union states were tied hand and foot. But Stalin was even more unfree. The fact is that the communist idea, it is humanistic in nature. JV Stalin, was its bearer in front of the whole world and could not behave like an ordinary conqueror. Whether he wanted it or not. In its humanity, communism is weaker than its anti-humanism. What any capitalist country, the USSR could do, could not afford.
                      In my opinion, all these games in democracy appeared only because of the USSR. Now this country does not exist, but public opinion is used to it and the powers that be have to conform. Previously, the ideological component was easier. "You are only to blame for what I want to eat."
                      1. Monarchist
                        Monarchist 4 January 2018 14: 58
                        0
                        Kamrad Avva, (don’t take off that without a number, but the number was sent to the evil one), and you are partially right: in the early 18th of 19 you acted on the principle: “the strongest is right”, and at the end of the 19th and early 20th at the initiative of Nikolay2 in Gaga the likeness of the post-war “League of Nations” and even then (Lenin had not yet hoped for victory), the states began to play decency: Austria-Hungary did not attack Seria (although they were strong)), but began to play “decency”. Your statement that “in its humanism, communism is weaker than its antogonism” contradicts the Leninist period: then the opposite was stated: “capitalism is weaker and it is doomed”, and now “communism is weaker?”
                    2. Nagaibak
                      Nagaibak 3 January 2018 21: 14
                      +6
                      Town Hall "He wanted to destroy Finland as an independent state and turn it into the N-th Soviet collective farm."
                      Finland Stalin did not need a gift. That he wanted to fuck her. He raped. Why does he need a second Baltic? Yes, even with the partisans.)))
                  2. avva2012
                    avva2012 4 January 2018 16: 13
                    +2
                    "capitalism is weaker and doomed", and now is "communism weaker?"
                    Dear Monarchist, we are investing and seeing different meanings in the same words. V.I. Lenin, meant that communism is stronger in that it is a more perfect social formation and it is very difficult to disagree with it. Speaking of "weakness," I mean that capitalism does not have humanistic principles and did not declare them, unlike the communist idea. Have to match, is not it?
                    Under capitalism, freedom. A person has the right to work as much as he wants, and also not to work. In the USSR, this was not. An eight-hour working day is the maximum, and if you do not work, then there is an article for parasitism. Under capitalism, a person is free to do whatever he wants with his health. Sell ​​a kidney, leave health at work, drink and use drugs. In the USSR, there were institutes of occupational pathology, they monitored the health of workers, peasants, and even, oh God, intellectuals. Medical examinations with a certain frequency, based on harmful working conditions, increased pensions for disability associated with the profession. They fought against alcoholism, up to LTP.
                    For the Communist, the second accusation in importance, after, "treason to the Motherland", was, "moral decay." Under capitalism, Roman Polansky raped the 13-year-old, and when he got involved in the United States, he left for Europe. And in Europe, he lives calmly, as a respected member of society.
                    Naturally, it’s easier to exploit, force, kill if there is money (the only criterion that a person means something). And being a man, crushing bestial desires, is more difficult.
                    As you know, everything in nature strives for simplicity. Capitalism is more natural in its proximity to nature. I repeat. The communist idea is more complex. It takes a lot of effort to be a man.
                    You are absolutely right when describing conventions between states. There was, for example, the Hague. But, this did not prevent, when, it is beneficial for capitalism, to destroy Soviet prisoners of war, first in Poland, and then in Germany. The USSR, although he did not sign it, had to tear off food from its citizens in order to feed the captured soldiers and officers. As in that proverb, "if you take up a tug, do not say that you are not bad."
              3. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 3 January 2018 21: 02
                +3
                verner1967 "the Finns didn’t win, but the Red Army didn’t reach the goals"
                The Red Army completed all the tasks assigned to it. Those lands that Stalin planned to annex to the USSR were annexed. Finland was defeated and was forced to give us territories. What other tasks did you have to complete? Mannerheim’s line was broken, Vyborg was taken. We have reached new borders. What else do you miss?)))
                1. Monarchist
                  Monarchist 4 January 2018 14: 36
                  +2
                  Nagaybek, I already said: "Stalin Kuseynen took out of his pocket," when the companies did not want to resolve the issue by kind, he still had hopes for a "world revolution" that the Finns would support the Kuseynen government. Whatever fig he pulled out the “Kuseynen’s government”, but then he realized that the Finns, to put it mildly, are not indulging in socialism .. So, “the players stayed with their own”
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 4 January 2018 16: 26
                    +3
                    The point is not that the Finns were not bastards from socialism, but the fact that they defended their homeland. JV Stalin, proceeding from ideology, when he saw that the workers and peasants, and even the Finnish communists, perceived the war, not as liberation, but as aggression, after the Finnish army was defeated, did not break Finnish statehood through the knee . How would he be different then from the king who started the WWII because of the straits?
                2. verner1967
                  verner1967 4 January 2018 20: 05
                  +1
                  Quote: Nagaibak
                  The Red Army completed all the tasks assigned to it.

                  tasks of the Red Army?
                  The commander of the Leningrad Military District (Leningrad Military District) 2nd-level commander Kirill Meretskov and a member of the Military Council of the district, 1st Secretary of the Leningrad Regional Party Committee Andrei Zhdanov stated in their order on the day of the attack on Finland: “We are not going to Finland as conquerors, but as friends and liberators of the Finnish people from the yoke of the landowners and capitalists. ”
                  Freed up?
                  It was planned not to drop Finnish troops on the Karelian Isthmus in order to move the border line from Leningrad to Vyborg, but to completely defeat the Finnish armed forces and occupy the whole country. For example, the troops of the 9th army of the commander Mikhail Dukhanov were to take Oulu (Uleaborg), a strategically important Finnish port in the Gulf of Bothnia, as soon as possible. The result would be the dismemberment of Finland
                  Dismembered? The entire operation was given about 20 days. Did you get it?
                  The Finnish government was to be created by the Comintern led by responsible workers, led by faithful Stalinist Otto Kuusinen. The world found out about the existence of its “government” on the second or third day after the Soviet Union invaded Finland. The Soviet national corps turned into the 1st corps of the Finnish People’s Army, subordinate to the Kuusinen “government”.
                  Have you changed the government? Well, what are we talking about?
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 3 January 2018 07: 27
    +8
    A lot has been written and said about the outstanding general abilities of I. S. Konev. Here is the opinion of Army General I. E. Petrov, chief of staff of the 1st Ukrainian Front at the end of the war: “Our commander has an amazing memory,” wrote Ivan Yefimovich. “And a special gift to see the battlefield. There are chess players who can play without looking on the board: the whole board, the arrangement of the figures is in their mind. So he can imagine the arrangement of the parts without looking at the map. And even say for sure what is standing against them and in what area ... He skillfully and accurately calculates everything. Everything is as it is. Both the means of transport and the supply even take into account the character of their commanders and enemy commanders. Only when everything is calculated, deployed, delivered, then an order is issued on the offensive ... "
  3. verner1967
    verner1967 3 January 2018 10: 51
    +2
    Quote: mat-vey
    Yes, where a lot ...
    in one post ??? This is not an answer )))
    Quote: mat-vey
    If you just completed the tasks
    Yes, the fact of the matter is that far from everything .. and the victory of Pyrrhus
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 3 January 2018 11: 09
      +2
      Quote: verner1967
      in one post ??? This is not an answer )))

      On this issue, contact your mom whom you tried to give out as mine ...
      Quote: verner1967
      Yes, the fact of the matter is that far from everything .. and the victory of Pyrrhus

      The army completed all the tasks, albeit at a high cost ... Oh yes, you do not know that the army did not lead the country ...
      1. verner1967
        verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 36
        +1
        Quote: mat-vey
        On this issue, contact your mom whom you tried to give out for mine ..

        I didn’t give anyone out to anyone, you started to poke your mother here, and I don’t have such a habit
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 3 January 2018 11: 40
          +2
          Quote: verner1967
          you started to poke your mother here, but I don’t have such a habit

          Well, it didn’t appear so ...
      2. verner1967
        verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 42
        +2
        Quote: mat-vey
        The army completed all the tasks, albeit with great expense

        more precisely it will be - disparate
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 3 January 2018 11: 48
          +5
          What are not comparable? What were the GOSTs? Oh, and even gained this experience as it ... military and let's take it into account .. the army to rearm the leadership to shake all sorts of charters to develop ...
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 58
            +1
            Quote: mat-vey
            combat and let's take it into account.

            yes, so we took into account that we had already reached Stalingrad
            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  4. verner1967
    verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 35
    +1
    Quote: mat-vey
    Well, here's another bunch of beads ...

    specify before whom? lol
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 3 January 2018 11: 40
      +3
      Yes, you do not care in front of anyone, most importantly heaps ...
  5. avva2012
    avva2012 3 January 2018 13: 52
    +3
    3x3zsave,
    And, you, from "Crime and Punishment", only remembered this moment?
    Anton, the habit of pulling quotes out of context, without comprehension, is typical for some commentators, but I thought it wasn’t for you.
    My opinion, as I was taught at school, should be based on something and not contradict, at least, the laws of logic. Otherwise, this is not an opinion.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 January 2018 18: 46
      +1
      You see what’s the matter, Alexander, the phrase I quoted has nothing to do with Dostoevsky. For the first time this slogan-palindrome appeared on the pages of the first Soviet alphabet “Down with illiteracy: Primer for adults” in 1919.
      What I stated in the previous comment is just an analogy to what I wrote to your eternal opponent about 3 months ago in the "History" section. He, too, “in a whirlwind of violent attacks” loves to deny his interlocutors the right to a point of view. The thesis of the unity of opposites is confirmed, funny ...
      Happy New Year, Doctor! Peace, health and prosperity to you and your loved ones!
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 3 January 2018 19: 08
        +2
        Happy New Year, Anton! Health to all of us. Children, parents, everyone for whom to lie before will not be offended.
        Nevertheless, you mentioned two phrases, one from the Primer, the other from the Classic. I answered the last. Raskolnikov’s thoughts and the palindrome, as you put it, are not close in meaning. Dostoevsky, do not be, he is a genius, raised a question of personal salvation. “We are not slaves, slaves, not us,” refers to community. Different logical fields?
        In my opinion, you deliberately mix different categories. For what, you will answer, if you want, already without me. Late. O: 08. Successes.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 3 January 2018 20: 28
          +1
          I don’t mix anything. Honestly, using the phrase coined by Dostoevsky, I did not even think about Fedor Mikhailovich. Ozhegov's dictionary has 70000 words, all of them, one way or another, in various linguistic constructions were used in the literature. And what, now put each sentence in quotation marks and look for the source? Yes, and he will not be new, because all world literature is reduced to three (three !!!) main themes used by Homer, and variations on their subject
          And my comment was about the culture of dialogue, without the philosophical and socio-political background
          As for the palindrome, this is a linguistic term for the phrase “shifter”.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 4 January 2018 06: 42
            +2
            The culture of dialogue ends where you encounter an open lie and distortion of the facts of the opponent. It stands out as "my personal opinion." Trolling, now, is this a "personal opinion"?
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 4 January 2018 08: 15
              0
              Good afternoon, Alexander! Please explain to me the concept of trolling. And then, naive, I still think that the troll is a large hominoid, 2-3 centners of blunt meat.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 4 January 2018 08: 24
                +1
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                And then, naive, I still think that the troll is a large hominoid, 2-3 centners of blunt meat.

                Yes, yes .... and with Google it somehow didn’t work out for you .... Well, how big a hominoid are you? Judging by this post from yours, it’s not even very small ...
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 4 January 2018 11: 36
          0
          Alexander, I would love to discuss with you the subject of personal and social slavery, but so far I do not see a platform (article) where this can be done. It seems that Shpakovsky promised a series of articles on PR-technologies - a great place, unless of course you again cut him off so that at least take out the saints.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 January 2018 19: 49
      0
      Well, turf quote in the context of the following commentary of Viktor Nikolayevich, or rather his first phrase.
      "The second of January has already passed,
      The sounds of general fun were quiet
      But something moves around
      Blessing everyone in a row
      Must be an angel
      People’s Hangover "
      (B. Grebenshchikov)
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 4 January 2018 06: 43
        +1
        Uh ... "Everyone judges by himself: for the fornicator - the whole world is fornication, for the thief - the whole world is stealing, for the servant of God - the whole world is pleasing to the Creator. Let us also check ourselves according to this pattern."
      2. avva2012
        avva2012 4 January 2018 06: 47
        +1
        As you wish, consider it. The main thing is that the hangover by the end of this year does not come.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 4 January 2018 08: 32
          +1
          Well, blame attempts to cheat the country's history for a hangover, I did not start ....
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 4 January 2018 13: 04
            0
            This comment was not for you, Matvey.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 4 January 2018 13: 34
              +1
              I apologize ... if something went wrong.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 4 January 2018 16: 31
                +1
                The main thing is that in all your other comments, it turned out as it should! Happy New Year, Matvey! Especially it came from the bottom of my heart: "The main thing to save is suddenly war, but I'm tired ... but let them spoil our grandfathers - they don’t have a shame for the dead ..."
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 4 January 2018 16: 48
                  +1
                  Well, I still remember the charred back of one grandfather and the shot back of the other (especially his fingerless hand, in spite of which he managed, as a sapper and “For Courage”, to receive the Red Star ...
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 4 January 2018 17: 15
                    +2
                    That's all we remember. And the grandmother’s tears, when she remembered the nineteen-year-old son who died on the Kursk.
  6. Curious
    Curious 3 January 2018 15: 36
    +9
    All the negative energy of the New Year’s withdrawal symptoms was reflected in the comments.
    Instead of discussing the military way of the outstanding Soviet commander, who is displayed in fragmented form in the article in the form of classical army political information of the last years of stagnation, the people fell into bickering over the war with Finland. Moreover, someone Werner performed a classic draft on a fan of vital products, and opponents, instead of arguably sending a goldsmith from history, began to tell him that he was a goldsmith, which is completely useless.
    But Konev, this is an interesting topic. Only his tenure as commissar of the armored train N 102 “Grozny” and his crossing of the ice through the Irty River deserve a separate article, because at this moment it is absent.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 3 January 2018 16: 39
      +3
      Kurios, I know almost nothing about Konev’s activities in the Civil War. What kind of literature tell me?
    2. avva2012
      avva2012 3 January 2018 17: 33
      +6
      Viktor Nikolaevich, your comment recalls the old story about the Germans, partisans and forester. They came and judged everyone. In my opinion, goldfish need to be reminded of its place, periodically. Otherwise, the site will turn into a cesspool.
      Well, the topic of the article, at least its title, is the end of the war. The fact that Konev, the commissar, is very interesting, but has nothing to do with this period.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 3 January 2018 19: 09
        +4
        Alexander, do you think the exchange of piles of beads is a decent way for a smart person to conduct a dialogue?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 4 January 2018 06: 49
          +3
          Anton, do you know how to teach how not to spoil anywhere?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 4 January 2018 10: 39
            0
            In principle, I developed for myself a method of counteracting the “obsessed”. He is not new, ordinary disregard, for a polemic with them is energy and emotionally costly. For frivolous creatures, such as the one who today beads tosses at me personally, it also works. But I consider Viktor Nikolayevich the largest specialist in this area. Four bans with an overall high culture of communication - what a virtuoso you need to be!
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 4 January 2018 10: 59
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              For frivolous creatures

              Yes, you are not perfect, well, where the world is heading ....
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              for a polemic with them is energetically and emotionally costly

              The main thing is to save strength - suddenly a war, but I'm tired ... and let them spoil their grandfathers - the dead cannot be shameful ...
            2. Curious
              Curious 4 January 2018 11: 50
              +3
              "Four bans" - eight. Moreover, all at once and forever. There are eight warnings. One wrong step - and there will be nine.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 4 January 2018 12: 14
                +1
                Talent !!! "Repent, Ivanitch, you will get a discount!" (M. Bulgakov) laughing
      2. Curious
        Curious 3 January 2018 21: 56
        +3
        Happy New Year to you!
        The article, of course, is about the final stage of the war. But it focuses on Konev’s leadership talent, so I think a couple of paragraphs about the origins of this talent would not worsen the article.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 4 January 2018 06: 53
          +2
          I think yes. And in that vein, I wrote the first comment.
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 January 2018 19: 06
      +2
      I agree 100%! Withdrawal syndrome - a terrible thing in the "skilled" hands!
      One of your many talents is the ability to "wash" everyone without touching anyone personally. Bravo!!!
      Happy New Year, Viktor Nikolaevich!
      1. Curious
        Curious 3 January 2018 21: 58
        +2
        "Abstinence syndrome is a terrible thing in" skillful "hands!"
        And the wrong sober is a direct path to alcoholism. Happy New Year to you too!
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 4 January 2018 11: 47
          0
          By the way, I found the translated Kurzweil, “Evolution of the Mind” (Eksmo 2015), but I didn’t buy it. According to the database in the store is listed, in real life - is not detected.
          1. Curious
            Curious 4 January 2018 11: 52
            +1
            I see, you are seriously interested.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 4 January 2018 12: 28
              +1
              Always interested in futurology. Well, I try to pull the educational minimum to at least the level of my wife. She told me about Altshuller, and I told her about Kurzweil. Although, the TRIZ program is not very interesting to me, it is for scattering the brain, and every other day I get tasks to think outside the box such that they did not dream of at these courses.
              1. Curious
                Curious 4 January 2018 15: 50
                +1
                I sometimes wonder if two Jewish intellectuals (Rafael Shapiro was still joking) with his TRIZ. Altshuller was also a science fiction. The boys pinned in 1946, but people liked it. Not everyone has the same intelligence and talent. And then TRIZ. To the joy of everyone.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 4 January 2018 16: 50
                  +1
                  Maybe pinned. But the idea has transformed into a good adult development program. Well and health! After all, it’s not saetology, and not Fomenkovism ... Warsaw also pinned at first, just didn’t live, and maybe he would have poked fun at Aelita.
  7. Monarchist
    Monarchist 3 January 2018 15: 48
    +2
    Quote: verner1967
    Quote: mat-vey
    Do you swear mom?

    What does your mom have to do with the facts? Look at the plans of the Red Army command and what they have achieved, compare. Everything is simple. Yes, and read what Voroshilov was removed for, really for a brilliant victory?

    With Voroshilov correctly noticed. And in the Belofin war it will be possible: "stayed with your own": the Finns had to "move over", and Kuseinen did not have a chance to walk around Helsinki.
    If you believe: Sergei Nikitovich Khrushchev, Shvernik and Kuseynen are the main benefactors of the "corncracker" and in this case, at the "Yeltsin Center" you need at least one stand to be reserved for the "fathers of Russian democracy", but Naina Iosifovna probably won’t want to
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 3 January 2018 16: 40
      +1
      Well, they began to reveal the positive aspects of the Finnish war - but did Voroshilov stay in his posts until the Patriotic War ????
  8. Monarchist
    Monarchist 3 January 2018 16: 35
    +3
    Quote: mat-vey
    mat-vey 3 Today, 10:31 ↑


    Was Joseph Visarionovich personally telling you? And what if diplomats had only sought to transfer the border before, was it stupid to cover up bloodthirsty plans?

    And who told you the plans of Stalin? Perhaps Poskrebyshev or Molotov?
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 3 January 2018 16: 54
      +2
      Quote: Monarchist
      And who told you the plans of Stalin? Perhaps Poskrebyshev or Molotov?

      Yes, the same as you ... "The Town Hall, you rudely told a little and not exactly. Stalin did not initially set out to destroy Finland:" in the form in which it existed. "If he wanted to, he would have achieved it.
      He was a practical man, when the Finns “didn’t get their hands on”, he really wanted to “reformat” them at once and for this he got Kuseynen out of his “pocket”; he still believed in Lenin and Troitsky’s fantasies that the proletariat was indulging in the ideas of the world revolution. Then Stalin realized that the finals of the world revolution and socialism are not interesting. If he were so stubborn, what prevented him from landing Kuseynen in 1944-45 in Helsinki? Just think of the extra tens of thousands of Red Army soldiers to lose, but to get the Karelofin Soviet Socialist Republic. No, Stalin was a practical leader and he did not become stupid to do ... is it Poskrebyshev or Molotov found?
      PYSY - Especially since the Karelian-Finnish Soviet Socialist Republic of him (Stalin) was ..
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 3 January 2018 17: 55
        +7
        I especially liked the Monarchist’s discourse on "the extra tens of thousands of Red Army men." Strategist! Knows what I.V. Stalin thought. Maybe we don’t know what? Reincarnation, avatar?
        1. Pancir026
          Pancir026 3 January 2018 17: 58
          +4
          Quote: avva2012
          Reincarnation, avatar?

          Just the stupidity of a man in life who did not command anything.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 3 January 2018 18: 11
            +6
            Actually, I’m a dumb jacket, but even, I understand that you can’t scatter “soldiers”. Sooner or later, you can either stay without them or you will get a bullet in the back as a reward for command.
            Happy New Year! For a long time, you were not on the site.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 3 January 2018 18: 17
              +3
              Quote: avva2012
              but even, I understand that you can’t scatter “soldiers”

              Yes, it’s impossible to “scatter” anyone .. this is only an effective digital enterprise, and the country seems to be digital in general - the director clicked a button on the table and it all worked and started working ....
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 3 January 2018 18: 26
                +6
                Therefore, in quotation marks and put, soldiers. People, these are not numbers, we all want to live. Therefore, we rebel, periodically, against nonhumans.
            2. Pancir026
              Pancir026 3 January 2018 19: 36
              +3
              Happy New Year!
              Domestic problems, very sad order ...
  9. sd68
    sd68 3 January 2018 20: 13
    +2
    Actually, the point in World War II from the USSR was put by Lieutenant General Kuzma Derevyanko.
    As for Prague, the troops of the 1st infantry division of the ROA of the CONR army, under the command of Major General Sergey Bunyachenko, with some participation of the inhabitants of Prague itself, were freed from German occupation by an uncomfortable, but fairly well-known fact. By the way, a little later the communists who came to power in Czechoslovakia were partially shot, partly put in the camps of the leaders of the Prague uprising of 1945 (the uprising commander, Jaromir Niechanski, was shot, for example, prominent deputy chairman of the council Josef Smrkowski and general Kutlvarsh received long prison sentences.) - still one fact that the USSR did not like to recall and which the author of the article did not mention, but in the 21st century it is ridiculous to remain silent about this. Or is she simply not up to now who really liberated Prague from the Germans?
    Soviet troops were introduced into the city already liberated by the Vlasovites with the help of Czechs from the Germans.
    After the Soviet troops were introduced, mass killings of Prague liberators from the Germans began, hundreds of real liberators were killed, including two hundred wounded during the liberation of Prague, they were killed right in hospitals.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 January 2018 21: 09
      +2
      You forgot to mention that this “somewhat later” happened to the designated persons in the year 48, due to subversive activities in the territory of the Czech Republic under the auspices of American intelligence. The same thing happened with the “Akovtsy” in Poland, the Chetniks in Yugoslavia, only in the USSR was he sick with “humanism” in relation to collaborators.
      1. sd68
        sd68 3 January 2018 22: 16
        +4
        why did you forget? I wrote, some were shot, some were imprisoned.
        The communists who seized power in Czechoslovakia, who were popular and had merit, did not need people.
        Gottwald, who came to power, cleared the space, many were then repressed in the Czech Republic, and Louis Liberty, who was kicked out of the government, was arrested and arrested, although he was later released. Then Gusak was planted. The same Joseph Smrkovsky, if I am not mistaken, was a communist, what does the “collaborators" have to do with it? and what side is “collaboration” to AK?
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 3 January 2018 22: 50
          +3
          Well, I misapplied the term for "Border Army." But you must admit, the “cleansing” of the political principle was carried out by the victorious party in every country, and the Vichy in France did not stand on ceremony. If the Czech Republic fell into the zone of American influence, Gottwald would have had a hard time.
          1. sd68
            sd68 3 January 2018 23: 34
            +4
            I will not talk about other cases, but in the case of Czechoslovakia, Gottwald cleaned up with the help of his son-in-law on the basis of personal support - the Communists also got there, so it is unlikely to talk about a "political" sign.
            As for the Vichy, the illegality of Peten’s dictatorial powers was obvious, as well as the removal of the legitimate President LeBren from power, which de Gaulle immediately stated, so that there was no question of political persecution, it was about usurpation of power.
            The persecution of the Communists in France captured by the Americans just was not observed
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 4 January 2018 00: 28
              +1
              Probably because the French "resistance" did not have a pronounced left orientation, however, as elsewhere. However, de Gaulle's sharply negative attitude toward Pétain did not prevent the former from maximizing the authorization of power in the country. A rapid split along political lines among the national movements supporting the victorious countries occurred after Churchill’s “Fulton speech”, which determined the post-war world order. Well, in my opinion.
              1. sd68
                sd68 4 January 2018 01: 49
                +3
                to authorize power and pursue a policy of mass repression on the basis of personal loyalty are two different things.
                the same French communists opposed de Gaulle and after Churchill's speech, and no repressions.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 4 January 2018 02: 23
                  +1
                  You are undoubtedly right. However, de Gaulle's domestic and foreign policy was aimed at strengthening France, which did not allow the leftist protest to take the most harsh forms, respectively, and the reaction to their statements was mild. In addition, with the "ultra-right", former associates, by the way, he had much more problems.
                  1. sd68
                    sd68 4 January 2018 03: 29
                    +3
                    the problem is that all politicians talk about strengthening the country, they only see it differently :)
                    The OAS members were sure that he was ruining France, releasing Algeria.
                    The Communists believed that adopting the Marshall Plan, France becomes a puppet of the United States.
                    In general, everyone sees the strengthening of the country in their own way.
                    As always and everywhere:) ...
              2. sd68
                sd68 4 January 2018 01: 49
                +2
                to authorize power and pursue a policy of mass repression on the basis of personal loyalty are two different things.
                the same French communists opposed de Gaulle and after Churchill's speech, and no repressions.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 4 January 2018 02: 41
                  0
                  Sergey, look at the PM.
                  1. sd68
                    sd68 4 January 2018 03: 30
                    0
                    it is only tomorrow. good night.
                  2. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 4 January 2018 06: 48
                    +1
                    He will bring withdrawal symptoms to France ....
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 4 January 2018 17: 36
                      +1
                      Not without this, I almost brought to the Foreign Legion ...
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 4 January 2018 17: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        I almost brought to the Foreign Legion ...

                        Yes, and I would have brought it, it’s just now that it’s more difficult for recruiters to work, a drunk fingerprint doesn’t channel .. Although a white cap might have been to my face ...
                  3. sd68
                    sd68 4 January 2018 12: 00
                    +1
                    I read, thank you, I will take note.
      2. avva2012
        avva2012 4 January 2018 13: 53
        +3
        3x3zsave
        "He, too," in a whirlwind of violent attacks, "loves to deny his interlocutors the right to a point of view."
        "After the Soviet troops were introduced, mass killings of Prague liberators from the Germans began, hundreds of real liberators were killed, including two hundred wounded during the liberation of Prague, they were killed right in hospitals."
        There you have it, Anton, the "point of view" option.
        Of course, you have been talking with this user for a long time, but, what, I want to say. In terms of tone and meaning, this commentary speaks of the Vlasovites in a positive way and even tries to squeeze out a tear, in the end, describing the executions of the "liberators".
        Point of view.
        In my opinion, excuse me for being blunt, there is only one point of view, those who betrayed their country by taking the enemy’s weapons in their hands are traitors and poons. A man who justifies traitors and poons is himself.
        There can be no other opinions.
        Mad dogs, shoot. Traitors, hang. What's wrong?
        Although, it’s possible this way: “Sergey, look in the PM.”
        1. Pancir026
          Pancir026 4 January 2018 13: 55
          +3
          Quote: avva2012
          Mad dogs, shoot. Traitors, hang. What's wrong?

          It’s all the same.
          Those who are now trying to whitewash the Vlasovites, Krasnovists and other abominations, according to their inner content, are the same.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 4 January 2018 14: 50
          +1
          Alexander, once again, are you trying to convict me of something?
          1. I discussed a moment of history that interests me with a person whose knowledge in this matter is more extensive than mine.
          2. The attitude towards Vlasovites is exactly the same as yours. And the rest too. Vlasov is a traitor, Rezun is a traitor, Rennekampf is a traitor, Sablin is a traitor, Gorbachev is a traitor, Yeltsin is a simple, near-wit drunk. Everyone, except the last two, was rewarded according to deeds.
          3. I can send you the contents of the letter from the PM.
          Counterquestion. If your personal enemy in serious condition hits you, will you treat him or will you spread your throat with a scalpel?
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 4 January 2018 16: 48
            +1
            I will answer from the end of your comment. As a doctor, I have no options. Or, I am a doctor and therefore provide assistance to anyone in need or not.
            I, you, are not trying to “convict” of anything. He expressed only his opinion. A man who justifies traitors and poons is that he is. Whatever, he did not possess knowledge, for me, I repeat, for me, communication with this subject is excluded. You can not communicate with the infectious, he must be isolated, and in this case, for his own health, contacts should be excluded. It is impossible to cure this. You can only get infected. It is up to you to decide.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 4 January 2018 17: 13
              0
              Well, I will not practice the subjunctive mood: "if you were there ...", this is at least stupid.
              Alexander, do me a favor, please give your assessment of the Kronstadt rebellion, I’m interested in your opinion. Specially about Sablin I do not ask, too odious figure.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 4 January 2018 17: 51
                +3
                If you were there ...
                I had mine. For now, I’m not spitting in the mirror.
                I can say one thing about the rebellion. After the civil war and intervention took place, the USSR raised the standard of living of the population so that this population fell under enemy tanks and machine guns for Soviet power. Kosmodemyanskaya, Molodogvardeytsy, pioneer heroes, underground activists, adult uncles and aunts, children, all of them, knew and understood better than we, for which they lay down their lives. And unlike the Japanese, who believe in rebirth, and the Orthodox, who know that there is a kingdom of heaven, they were atheists. They did not believe that beyond the threshold, another life awaits them. However, for this power, sacrificed the most expensive that is.
                Moreover, here is the Kronstat rebellion?
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 4 January 2018 18: 19
                  0
                  Everyone had it. And the Kronstad rebellion ... probably already nothing to do with it. Sorry, but no, no trial.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 4 January 2018 18: 26
                    0
                    Of course. Those who converged on ice, they are no longer there. But there are traitors. But there is no judgment.
            2. mat-vey
              mat-vey 4 January 2018 17: 16
              +2
              My grandfather somehow flashed (in general, like the majority of those who had gone through the war, he was not a fan of telling) that he did not understand those who, under the occupation, even buried the bodies of the Germans in the ground (he was fur-water), until Babi Yar saw live (he then already , after the injury Rybalko drove) .....
          2. Dalailama
            Dalailama 4 January 2018 20: 34
            0
            Come on, it’s just that Partigenigenoss Democrat was walking around the European boutiques in Prague and he felt sorry for his Vlasovites.
    2. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 3 January 2018 21: 11
      +9
      sd68 "Soviet troops entered the city already liberated by the Vlasovites with the help of Czechs from the Germans."
      Here on the website on this topic was an article. Check it out. Enough already to tell us about Bunyachenko blitzkriegs.)))
      1. sd68
        sd68 3 January 2018 22: 03
        +1
        I read a lot of things on this topic, including the article you are writing about.
        The fact remains that the real spontaneous Prague uprising did not allow the Germans to turn Russians into Warsaw, but just from the Bunyachenko division.
        The reasons why they suddenly started to fight with the Germans, the second question, but the fact remains, it was the Vlasovites who saved the inhabitants of Prague from a pogrom similar to Warsaw.
        PS and what kind of blitzkrieg is this? they were nearby
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 4 January 2018 00: 44
          +1
          By the way, such a question, but was the decision to send Soviet troops to Prague a consequence of the fact that the ROA freed her from the Germans?
          1. sd68
            sd68 4 January 2018 02: 10
            +1
            the decision was made much earlier.
            Neither the Poles nor the Czechs, who independently liberated their capitals (or with the help of allies), were happy with the Soviet side.
            Therefore, although the Americans were 70 km from Prague, the Soviet side transmitted messages to them that it would enter Prague itself.
            Instead of the Vlasovites, Americans could also help the inhabitants of Prague, but Eisenhower, taking into account the Soviet message about entry plans and previous agreements, was in no hurry to Prague and forbade Patton to go there.
            On May 7 after lunch, the situation changed radically - it became known about the surrender of Germany and after that the Germans were only concerned with the question of how to surrender to the Americans faster, and all their previous plans were forgotten.
            The last battle was on May 12 between the SS men on the one hand, and Soviet troops and the Americans on the other, precisely because the SS men tried to surrender to the Americans, and they refused to accept surrender.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 4 January 2018 02: 40
              0
              The Americans did not capture the German SSovtsy and paratroopers.
              also before the surrender of almost all Japanese, especially pilots.
              they would not have fought a war with such a powerful group of Germans as they hadn’t climbed to Berlin, although they went to Elba without fights on April 12th, leaving them to do this and bleed Russian.
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 4 January 2018 03: 13
              0
              I think that independent Poles and Czechs did not suit Americans either. Evidence of this is the geography of American military bases in Europe. By the way, in France - not one, de Gaulle's undoubted merit.
              1. sd68
                sd68 4 January 2018 03: 42
                +2
                post-war Europe was not afraid of Americans, but the invasion of the USSR - especially given the growth of Soviet influence and the formation of pro-Kremlin Eastern Europe, as well as the growth of Stalin's ambitions and claims - in the form of demands on Turkey or claims on Libya-Tripolitania, taking into account the appearance of atomic weapons in Stalin.
                Do not forget that the Soviet Communists began with the actively promoted idea of ​​the world revolution, and here there is such visualization in the form of Eastern Europe or the unwillingness to remove Soviet troops from Austria.
                Again, the Atlantic Charter.
                The states did not receive any territories in Europe as a result of the war, unlike the USSR, and their influence in Europe was undoubtedly much milder than the Soviet one.
                And Keninsberg looked like a direct violation of the charter.
                On the whole, the West fully supported American bases in Europe as a guarantee of protection — but France, due to its territorial location, did not need it.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 4 January 2018 03: 55
                  +3
                  Post-war Europe was afraid of a new atomic war as a continuation of the Anglo-American bombing in a new quality.
                  Do not forget that Britons gently did with the Greeks (not only the Communists) in 1944.
                  After WWII, 4,7 million Germans west of the demarcation line died of starvation.
                  France was bombed on an equal footing with the Germans, and she therefore remembered for the longest time who actually liberated Europe from Nazism.
                  About the charter your flag is in your hands, a drum around your neck, and to the Poles.
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 4 January 2018 04: 13
                  +2
                  The idea of ​​a world revolution was safely bent even before the war with the submission of Stalin and the ice ax in the head of its chief ideologist.
                  US territorial acquisitions in Europe were not needed; enough military bases were a logical continuation of the gunboat policy.
                  The Soviet Union needed a buffer zone in the form of satellite states.
                  De Gaulle pursued an anti-Atlantic policy aimed primarily at limiting US influence in Europe, it was in him that he saw a threat to the sovereignty of France.
                  1. sd68
                    sd68 4 January 2018 12: 17
                    0
                    it was removed from the agenda in the form in which it was seen immediately after 1917, and passed, as they would say in a hybrid form, through communist influence and not only.
                    For Europe, an example of the Baltic was evident, for example, which suddenly became Soviet. Actually, the Czechs just for this reason refused Soviet help during the German invasion - they were sure that they would come to the Baltic 2.
                    And after the war, this was clearly shown.
                    As for the satellites as a buffer zone, the USSR supported communist revolutions around the world, and not just in Europe.
                    If a buffer zone in Europe were needed, there would be neutral states such as post-war Finland, Austria, and Sweden. But in the second half of the 20th century, the presence of buffer states was much less important than in the first. The technology has changed a lot, ballistic missiles and long-range bombers are not a buffer state.
                    As for France and de Gaulle, he had conflicts during the war with the Americans, and it is clear that he was trying to reduce the level of US influence in the dollar and other areas, but in the case of NATO and American bases, the most important factor was that from the point of view of security from the USSR France was in the most convenient position
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 4 January 2018 13: 37
                      0
                      The Germans invaded the territory of the Czech Republic in March 39th, the USSR in the Baltic states in June 40th, so there is some kind of factual discrepancy.
                      Let me remind you that the first missile delivery vehicles were created in the mid-50s, when the buffer zone was already formed. In the case of using strategic aviation for the delivery of nuclear weapons, this same zone, with air defense forces stationed on it, is so important.
                      What is the geographical position of France better than Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands in the strategic plan of nuclear conflict? But the lack of military bases of a potential enemy of the USSR, as the objectives of the first strike, played a significant role in terms of security.
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 4 January 2018 19: 00
                      0
                      Throughout the world, China has made revolutions. The USSR reluctantly then supported.
                      After the Stalin purges, the Republicans in Spain did not last long. Then those who fled from there were cleaned up in the USSR 1939-1940, in 1943 the International was shot a little less than completely.
                      1. Pancir026
                        Pancir026 4 January 2018 19: 12
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        After the Stalin purges

                        sir, are you a Trotskyite? what do you write about such purges here with regret? I’ll remind you, they asked one American. Is there a fifth column in the USSR, the answer is NO, they shot it. Here is the true price for your clients — a camera, a wall. oblivion, so that there was nothing worse.
                      2. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 4 January 2018 20: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Pancir026
                        sir, are you a Trotskyist. What is so sorry to write about purges here?

                        it seems to you, I wrote to the Trotskyist above.
              2. Dalailama
                Dalailama 4 January 2018 04: 01
                0
                To a greater extent, the Americans themselves, see comments a little higher.
                There, their military graves endure with great difficulty.
          2. sd68
            sd68 4 January 2018 03: 14
            +1
            the decision on the line between the Allied forces was generally made in advance, since a sudden meeting was fraught with "friendly fire", so the Americans, having received a message that Soviet troops were going to Prague, would not even do this out of simple common sense - to establish interaction with the Soviet troops in the conditions of fighting in the city was simply impossible.
            The participation of the Vlasovites was, of course, for the Soviet side an extremely unpleasant surprise, even more unpleasant than the self-liberation of the Czechs or the help of the Americans — perhaps that is why their massacres began in Prague, including the wounded in hospitals — they removed the witnesses ...
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 4 January 2018 03: 22
              0
              They only got a message when their "test of strength" near Elba was not asked.
              Soviet troops of Vlasov also usually did not take prisoner.
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 4 January 2018 03: 37
              +3
              I think before talking about the massacres, it is worth remembering who the Vlasovites were in the understanding of the Soviet soldiers, from ordinary to generals.
              1. sd68
                sd68 4 January 2018 12: 21
                +1
                this is understandable, nevertheless, Vlasov’s people were taken prisoner and tried after the war under other circumstances, and they were hanged without a trace of open extermination in the capital of a large European state, actually after the end of the war, including those who were injured in battles with the Germans — this goes beyond all frames.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 4 January 2018 13: 02
                  0
                  We omit the question of the wounded, I agree, in principle, this is a war crime. The rest is how? Captive surrendered or were destroyed with weapons in their hands? That is, what was it: Nanjing 2 or Night of Long Knives?
                  1. sd68
                    sd68 4 January 2018 13: 33
                    +1
                    a tabulated topic for runet, there is not much detailed information, for the one that is, they shot precisely those who tried to surrender in captivity.
                    in fact, the main part of the division left for the West on the night of 7 to 8, those hundreds of people could only remain for surrender, there wasn’t any other meaning, maybe until recently they believed that the Americans would come to Prague, maybe fatalists. However, the Germans at that time were in the same position.
                    somehow
                    “They first went to the hospital, where Vlasov’s soldiers were. Some were shot dead in bed, the others were brought here, dug a hole, those who couldn’t walk, they were thrown there and shot. Those wounded who could walk were brought out to that they shot them, and then their bodies were thrown into a common grave "
                    Jan Billik, caretaker of Olshansky cemetery (a large cemetery in Prague-3, if you have been to Prague)
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 4 January 2018 14: 02
                      +1
                      There are no taboo topics, there are people taboo on the whole head. If already before the Poles for Katyn they got bogged down at the official level, then what’s it ... commonplace, Russians are killing each other. National fun, once a century we rot each other to the third knee, and if we get into the taste, then more often. A peculiar way to improve the gene pool. "Walk the flaw! We live one more time!" Women are only sorry.
                  2. avva2012
                    avva2012 4 January 2018 18: 29
                    +3
                    "We’ll omit the wounded, I agree, in principle, this is a war crime."
                    So immediately and a war crime? Have you read the documents? Or they believed right away.
                2. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 4 January 2018 22: 43
                  +2
                  Well, under the Ukrainian flag, the very thing is about the Vlasovites. Good to teach a piglet. It’s often here that the advice of the Ukrainian communist is to deal with the affairs of the country, I am on the side of the Ukrainian communist in those disputes. But all the others have nothing to go to the Russian Federation with their whining. In your own country, and not in the Russian Federation ----- restore order.
                  And you, Anton, why are you discussing this nonsense, forgetting the words of VYACHESLAV Olegovich about this? Everywhere in those articles, you supported him!
                  And also, As your respected Vyacheslav Olegovich said, (and earlier it was in a cool film) ----- you can’t be half pregnant.! You can’t love the homeland and listen to the nasty things about it and look for meaning in them!
    3. Dalailama
      Dalailama 4 January 2018 01: 31
      +2
      In the war with Japan and throughout WWII, Vasilevsky, who sent him there.
      Vlasovites did not liberate Prague; they made their way west through the Germans.
      sorry you were not in that hospital, or in Hiroshima / Dresden.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 4 January 2018 02: 39
        +2
        Do you generally understand what you are writing ?! You realize that like this, when you walk, you wish a person death ?! Well, get to him in real life and say in person: "so you die, female dog!"
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 4 January 2018 02: 48
          0
          Well, why, maybe he (a) would be able to prevent someone there?
        2. sd68
          sd68 4 January 2018 03: 07
          +1
          in real life, he would have put it into his pants.
          but actually he filled up all the branches with all sorts of nonsense
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 4 January 2018 03: 17
            +1
            in real life you are still waiting for the link.
            1. sd68
              sd68 4 January 2018 12: 22
              0
              I answered for all questions a long time ago, if someone didn’t understand, his problems, I don’t have the desire to fit into the old branches
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 4 January 2018 18: 56
                0
                They are waiting for all questions, not just with drawings, with photos.
    4. saigon
      saigon 4 January 2018 08: 50
      +5
      From the point of view of the SA soldier, the liberators of Prague from the ROA wore the enemy uniform.
      Traitors and their attitude towards them are unambiguous and the liberation of Prague by the Vlasovites does not write off anything to them and does not change their attitude towards them.
      By the way, this is a nuance. A bitch from the Bunyachenko’s division, who betrayed her homeland by the habit of a bitch, betrayed her Fritzev’s masters as well (you can see this from the inside, or God marks the assault)
      1. sd68
        sd68 4 January 2018 12: 27
        +1
        nothing to do with the habit, in the first place it was already clear that the war was ending, and they needed bonuses for themselves, they believed that their protection in the Czech Republic freed from the Germans could become such, and secondly, many of the Czech officers from the leadership of the Prague uprising participated in that in the USSR they called the “White Bohemian rebellion” and had some contacts with the whites, including those who took part in the ROA
        1. saigon
          saigon 4 January 2018 14: 21
          +4
          In my commentary, some words did not pass the review, so to speak.
          I clarify my position once again, **** dressing the uniform of a foreign army and swearing allegiance to Aloizovich betrayed her benefactor too (just by inertia to betray so betray)
          There is such an expression that the betrayer will betray again.
          And what did ROA's critters have to do with white?
          Mr. Denikin sent them on or to and scolded about this scum.
          Yes, and the Czechs, they are also good right in three shifts of ruzhbayki, but tanks with guns for the Wehrmacht mastered suffering directly unbearable. Well, and as a result, the feeding hand (for the work shocked on the Germans) is true after the Hans disarmed.
          What a cool topic about the reprisals of Czechs with unarmed Fritz, well, with civilians in one, oh and interesting reading.
          Well, for traitors, the bonus is one bullet or loop
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 4 January 2018 14: 24
            +2
            Thank you for wanting to say something like that ...
          2. avva2012
            avva2012 4 January 2018 17: 05
            +3
            "Well, for traitors, the bonus is one bullet or loop."
            The most important thing is oblivion. Not for nothing in the history of the USSR, they were practically not mentioned. Current traitors, starting with Solzhenitsyn and smaller in size, are just trying to pull them out of nothingness. Ready-made traitors take care of their forerunners and prepare their future. Judas, come, put things in order, here is their slogan.
  10. Hurricane70
    Hurricane70 3 January 2018 21: 08
    +2
    Quote: 210ox
    He put an end to the war in the West .. In the East, the battle continued ..

    Well, don’t make a war machine of Germans and Japanese! The only possible comparison is solitary behavior in battle ...
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 4 January 2018 01: 35
      +1
      Why did the Americans mess with them for so long?
  11. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 4 January 2018 06: 18
    +1
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Article ---- certainly ++++++
    Quote: avva2012
    Werner ....... Now from article to article he will oppose, inserting his ten cents / ruble?
    Well, yes, yes, I put in 10 kopecks --- $$$$$ earned money for the kids for milk. It would not have been disgusting, but he read his comments. %% of this plan, tries, overfulfills, the topic of articles, the manner of commenting, namely in the technique of chatter-, juggling facts, outright lies - all this speaks about. As soon as patriotic comments appear, he immediately tries to belittle and blabber. For other readers to quit and leave. An employee specifically works. And, he looks like someone previous to this babble. On whom? Often I missed the troll chatter --- don't remember ....
  12. verner1967
    verner1967 4 January 2018 16: 02
    0
    Quote: parusnik
    Suomi the beauty was a song and ideological response to the Finnish song agitation No, Molotoff! .

    not quite right, the song was written before the attack on Finland:
    "The low sun of autumn
    Lights the bayonet lights. "
    and the war began on November 30, while the Finns invented “No, Molotoff” during the war, in response to Molotov’s statement about dinner in Helsinki and she tells about the hostilities.