What would happen if the USSR made an alliance with Germany in 1940?

After the start of the Second World War, the Third Reich organized negotiations with the Soviet government. The USSR was invited to join the so-called "Axis". It was an aggressive military alliance of the three countries: Germany, Italy and Japan.

Then, at the end of September 1940, these countries signed the Tripartite Pact, according to which Germany, Italy and Japan demarcated between themselves zones of influence on the planet. Later, some Eastern European states joined the union, as well as Thailand.

According to some historical According to the data, the USSR accepted Hitler's proposal for consideration and put forward a number of requirements. In exchange for the entry of the Soviet Union into the "Axis", the communists surrendered to Iraq, Iran, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Finland.

Berlin refused and negotiations were frozen. Less than a year later, Germany attacked the USSR.

But what would happen if Hitler agreed to the demands of Moscow?

Comments

[Vard]

So Hitler violated the non-attack pact ... And what would have prevented him from breaking the agreement ... It would be the same ...

[Vend]

Quote: Vard

So Hitler violated the non-attack pact ... And what would have prevented him from breaking the agreement ... It would be the same ...

Not really. There would be no Britain then, and maybe the USA. And the war would have been different.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Wend

And the war would have been different.

Reasoning on the topic, square is warm, and round sour ...
The Altistoria website is more appropriate for such speculation. And even there, they understand that such an alliance between the USSR and the Hitler Reich was impossible.

[Mikhail Filippov]

Well why. The Reich entered into an alliance with Japan, where the "non-Aryans" lived and live, and which, among other things, also accepted European Jews

[MaxMelan]

For your information, they recognized the Crimean Tatars, and considered the Slavs to be non-humans.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Wend

There would be no Britain then

I agree, Britain on the map at the end of the video would have been painted in a different color.

Quote: Pancir026

the alliance between the USSR and the Nazi Reich was impossible.

It would be possible to maintain neutrality in relation to each other.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Ingvar 72

It would be possible to maintain neutrality towards each other

It’s not possible. Why fantasy if the brown bible explicitly states what the policy of the Black Reich is in relation to Russia.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pancir026

.What a fantasy, if the brown bible explicitly states what the policy of the Black Reich towards Russia is.

US policy towards Russia does not prevent our government from holding money in US GKOs. And the USSR OFFICIALLY had trade relations with the United States. This is in spite of the cold war.
In general, politics is like a mosquito jet (very thin)

[Pancir026]

Quote: Ingvar 72

US policy towards Russia does not prevent our government from holding money in US GKOs.

Your liberal government? Is this good for the country? Or has it been clear to everyone for a long time. Removing finances from the country. Leaving them abroad, sponsoring the West, and not building up the power of our country, is that not clear to you?

Quote: Ingvar 72

And the USSR OFFICIALLY had trade relations with the United States. This is in spite of the cold war.

Had what?
Do not you catch the difference between the Cold War and the war of the Great Patriotic War type?
It doesn’t reach you. What is the TRADE agreement with Germany, objectively worked for us, and not for Germany?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pancir026

To your liberal government?

Yes, it’s more yours — it’s entirely one party and Komsomol leaders who have changed their lives.

Quote: Pancir026

Do not you catch the difference between the Cold War and the war of the Great Patriotic War type?

Trade relations between the USSR and Germany continued after the outbreak of World War II (WWII), and not after the outbreak of the Second World War!

Quote: Pancir026

It doesn’t reach you. What is the TRADE agreement with Germany, objectively worked for us, and not for Germany?

And the same for Germany - everyone benefited, and we and they.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Yes, it’s more yours — it’s entirely one party and Komsomol leaders who have changed their lives.

Yours and not worth making excuses.

Quote: Ingvar 72

Trade relations between the USSR and Germany continued after the outbreak of World War II (WWII), and not after the outbreak of the Second World War!

Have you just shown that your degree of lack of education or an attempt to impose your carelessness when reading someone else’s comments, pretending to be speculation for my words? I have written the answer to Balu - "" Many of those writing about the Great Patriotic War like to reproach Stalin with economic cooperation with Hitler Germany in 1939-1941. Depending on the views of the authors, estimates of Soviet-German pre-war trade range from "miscalculation" ("an unsuccessful attempt to pay off Hitler and delay the start of the war at any cost") to "crime" ("conscious support of the Nazi regime"). However, the accusers of Stalin amicably agree that this step was erroneous and harmful. As in the case of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, the arguments put forward by them can be reduced to two: moral inadmissibility and practical inappropriateness. We will consider them in this order.
https://subscribe.ru/group/pole-chudes/6114360/

Quote: Ingvar 72

And the same for Germany - everyone benefited, and we and they.

Do you intend to cook songs you know well for a long time? I'm not interested in them.
What are the benefits for us, I know. And why this agreement was more beneficial for us the same.
You, ignorant in this matter, know nothing.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pancir026

You, ignorant in this matter, know nothing.

It's funny to read you, by golly. Where you yourself "do not bite", try to blame the opponent for ignorance. Well, right by the manual of the catechism. I know more about trade relations, tea, economic education in a backpack.

Quote: Pancir026

Yours and not worth making excuses.

I have no words....

[Pancir026]

Quote: Ingvar 72

I have no words....

If not, then do not work in vain; reading your farts is ridiculous.

[Mikhail Filippov]

Why would he break it? The USSR itself would have provided Hitler with resources for war

[Pancir026]

Quote: Mikhail Filippov

Why would he break it? The USSR itself would have provided Hitler with resources for war

USE?

[Mikhail Filippov]

Well, why immediately the exam ... The last Soviet train with grain departed for Germany after its attack

[Pancir026]

Quote: Mikhail Filippov

Well, why immediately exam

Clearly, the exam.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pancir026

Clearly, the exam.

I don’t know about the last train, but we delivered grain to Germany before the war. After the start of WWII. Like coal, iron ore and lumber. And in the exam, this topic is generally not present.
But on the internet there are documents. Search and find.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Ingvar 72

But on the internet there are documents.

Wikipedia and the Unified State Examination, for some users there is something that they have sacredly believed in, but in vain. It's completely different.

Quote: Ingvar 72

After the start of WWII.

For example, what do you have against IF before June 22, 1941, the USSR was not in a state of war with Germany?
You really are sure that the USSR had to rush headlong to "save" those who themselves were preparing the war against the USSR?
The Germans laughed a lot. When they captured the documents of the French General Staff with a description of the planned bombing of Baku.
So whether you will find it or not, your problem, but the fact that you are small in the topic. That's for sure.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pancir026

but in vain. it's completely different.

There is also a lot of truth in them - let the sighted see. (if anything - I'm more of a pagan, not a Christian. But the truth is in Christianity. As in communist theory. )

Quote: Pancir026

You really are sure that the USSR had to rush headlong to "save" those who themselves were preparing the war against the USSR?

This is why you so decided that I am sure of this?

Quote: Pancir026

but the fact that you are small in the topic. That's for sure.

Where are we, Sivorylym ..... Generously forgive me for getting into your great intellectual conversation.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Forgive me generously

I forgive you.

[In100gram]

The fact that we with Germany actively traded up to 41 years is a fact. and in return received "hemp" quite a machine and technology. And the latest aircraft models sold.

[MaxMelan]

Nearby is a neighbor who sells resources, but you understand that you can take them away, you have an invincible army and you passion as you hate the local population. You will wait until this country succeeds and strengthens its position. Especially in the event that over the past 10 years in this country appeared from scratch industry, which other countries have recruited 200 years. Will you wait another 5-10 years? And you already blurted out that the territory of this country is seen by you without the local population as your feltland.

[your1970]

Quote: MaksoMelan

Nearby is a neighbor who sells resources, but you understand that you can take them away, you have an invincible army and you passion as you hate the local population. You will wait until this country succeeds and strengthens its position. Especially in the event that over the past 10 years in this country appeared from scratch industry, which other countries have recruited 200 years. Will you wait another 5-10 years? And you already blurted out that the territory of this country is seen by you without the local population as your feltland.

-and also you have: 1) The General Staff, which directly contradicts you on all issues of the war (starting almost from coming to power until 1945)
2) A significant disloyal part of the officers (parallel to the Wehrmacht divisions of the SS did not just arise)
3) Already strong enough enemy army
4) Not mobilized industry (and only by 1943 began to translate)
One must be a complete adventurer, such as Hitler was - in order to attack the USSR in such circumstances. Only complete adventurism can push this

[Basil50]

The idiocy is not that today there are those who offer a lot of things to reconsider, but rather that then, relying on such fabrications, they draw conclusions and even claim about the authenticity of the assumptions.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Vasily50

The idiocy is not that today there are those who offer a lot of things to reconsider, but rather that then, relying on such fabrications, they draw conclusions and even claim about the authenticity of the assumptions.

The exact wording in essence of these and similar opuses.

[solzh]

If yes, if only ... Complete nonsense.

[Baloo]

Germany gave a loan to the USSR for 100 lei marks of gold. Perhaps that is why Stalin did not believe that Hitler would attack, even when our ships were forbidden to leave German ports. From Germany came machine tools, ammunition, equipment, machinery, medicines, chemistry. To Germany - strategic fuel, raw materials, grain, etc.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Balu

Perhaps that is why Stalin did not believe

Tales are something to be repeated. On the count of “I didn’t believe.” Fortune-telling on the coffee grounds ... read the black book, Mine Kampf, only the deaf-blind and deaf-blind will not see directly said Germany-war-EAST.

Quote: Balu

To Germany - strategic fuel, raw materials, grain, etc.

I wonder what kind of "strategic raw material" went to Germany and what percentage of what was sent there played a role in strengthening Germany, given that everything was sent in its original. Unprocessed form? Do you calculate the processing costs yourself?
Rehash of fairy tales of Rezun-corned beef. Why repeat?

[MaxMelan]

If anyone knew that there would be a war, it was Stalin. What the country was preparing for with the help of industrialization. This was precisely the main task of industrialization to survive in the war. Other Bolsheviks proposed smooth modernization and development. Why did Stalin not accept intelligence reports about the war ... Because intelligence, without analyzing or checking the data, simply sent them to Stalin. Nooo who did not dare to analyze. Stalin demanded verification and evidence. Among the tons of such reports were real and misinformation, and speculation. And for some reason Stalin had to sack it. This is the work of intelligence and the General Staff, which they did not perform.

[Baloo]

Quote: Pancir026

corned beef cutter

After the aquarium, I lost interest. And what was the loan?

[Pancir026]

Quote: Balu

And what was the loan?

Colleague, and you carefully considered this issue, including what was acquired on loans, when, at what time and to whom it was beneficial.
“Many of those writing about the Great Patriotic War like to reproach Stalin with economic cooperation with Hitler Germany in 1939-1941. Depending on the views of the authors, estimates of Soviet-German pre-war trade range from“ miscalculation ”(“ an unsuccessful attempt to pay off Hitler and at any cost postpone the start of the war ”) to“ crime ”(“ conscious support of the Nazi regime ”). However, Stalin’s accusers agree that this step was erroneous and harmful. As in the case of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, the arguments put forward by them can be reduced to two: moral inadmissibility and practical inappropriateness, and we will consider them in this order.
https://subscribe.ru/group/pole-chudes/6114360/

[Baloo]

Quote: Pancir026

Colleague, and you carefully examined this issue. Including what was acquired on loans, when, at what time and to whom it was beneficial

I am not a historian, not a politician, not a shtirlits. Something is memorable. something is not. I try to keep abreast of what is happening and the past. The grandson and granddaughter will begin to ask, but I have to say how it really was. An article two years ago on the internet, I hardly remember the source. The article was a great one. No one expressed doubts in the comments.
He recalled, it was mentioned that Stalin was told 47 times the exact date the war began.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Balu

An article of two years ago on the Internet, I hardly remember the source

Take, for example, Martirosyan’s work ... it’s clear from the documents, it is shown that, to what extent and who has benefited from this, everything is shown. In politics, pragmatism, only Stalin is ordered, and the so-called west, free from conscience, was allowed to trade with the Reich right up to 1944, and that no one is indignant from Wednesday-A) those who do not know the question; B) from among the potential fifth column. C) from among the patented Russophobia anti-Soviet.

[Baloo]

Quote: Pancir026

free from conscience the West was allowed to trade with the Reich right up to 1944

Yes, one of the SVR veterans in an interview on TV said that he was writing a book and that fifty American companies had their representative offices in Berlin. There was an article on the internet about Bush that Hitler kept his money in an American bank of his grandfather Bush Jr.
I would love to buy a book, but so far there are no announcements, and after all, more than one year has passed.
Perhaps the exact same situation as with 10 books by Kryuchkov.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Balu

I would love to buy a book, but so far there are no announcements, and after all, more than one year has passed.

You can take it from Internet. http://bookscafe.net/author/martirosyan_arsen-305
92.html

[Baloo]

Quote: Pancir026

You can take it from Internet. http://bookscafe.net/author/martirosyan_arsen-305
92.html

Thank you.

[your1970]

There were investigations by the American commission after the war on cooperation with Hitler of American firms - something was mentioned there about 300 firms with very sickly supplies, everything and everything, including bearings through Switzerland.
But then the Cold War began and they quickly forgot about it ....
just an example of "neutrality" -
“The vaunted neutral Switzerland made watches for both Hitler and the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition. Money is everything. Some Swiss companies have not chastically put their name (for example, International Watch Co. (IWC) on watches made for Germany or coming up with non-existent brands, some (for example, Zenith, Longines, Doxa) wrote their real name without hesitation. All military watches for which the Wehrmacht were made only on reliable anchor-type mechanisms with a shockproof balance axis device.
The cases were made round, with a diameter of 32-36 mm, provided increased protection against dust and moisture, often from magnetic fields. Sometimes the mechanism was placed on an additional shockproof damping insert.
The watch for the German land forces was marked with the stamp DH (Deutsches Heer), KM for submariners, Kriegsmarine, “FL” means Fliegnummer, i.e. belonging to aviation equipment, DU (employee hours of the Reich employee).
Many well-known Swiss companies tried not to put their name on the dial, and most often signed products with unknown, invented brands. Some companies (for example, Omega) did not take a German order at all, and produced watches only for the British army. In contrast to Omega, Longines manufactures timepieces for both the UK and Germany.
At the beginning of World War II, Germany ordered lots of watches for its officers in a rather expensive design. Steel case, especially high-quality mechanism, high level of finish and performance. Such steel watches were supplied by Zenith, Longines and Doxa. Later, when the financial possibilities of the Third Reich were pretty exhausted, Zenith supplied watches in brass chrome cases. At the same time, the back cover was always steel, screwed, and contained the hallmark with the number.
Here is a complete list of brands that supplied military timepieces for Germany: Acacia, Alpina, Arcadia, Arsa (now Auguste Reymond), Bielco, Bulla, Buren, BWC, Choisi, Civitas, Cronos, Dogma, Emco, ERA, Ercules, Etanche , Felco, Flora, Freco, Gala, Glycine, Grana, Gustonia, Hado, Helios, Helma, Helvetia, Leonidas, Longines, Madix, Milex, Mimo, Minerva, Moeris, Monitor, Mulco, Nisus, Page, Onda, OPE, Para "Phenix, Pierpont, Pronto, Record, Recta, Revue (now Revue Thommen), Siegerin, Silvana, Stabila, Stowa, Syntakt, Thiel, Titus, Tritona, Wagner, Zenith, Zentra."

[andj61]

Quote: mpp

What would happen if the USSR made an alliance with Germany in 1940?

Conventional weapons bombing since the beginning of the 40s and atomic bombing since 1945. Then the end of socialism in 1945-46.

3-4 bombs of 15-20 kilotons each could by no means be brought to the end of socialism. And the USSR at that time had a multimillion-dollar army with gigantic combat experience, a war-tuned industry, and such a seemingly intangible thing as a winner’s syndrome — the habit of winning. the result would be the opposite - the whole continent would become socialist and Stalinist.
Until the late 50s, the United States had neither enough nuclear warheads, nor carriers that could effectively use them to somehow get an advantage. After they received it (a sufficient number of B-52s), it turned out that the USSR already had enough warheads and carriers capable of inflicting damage on the United States in the opinion of the US leadership, and by the 70s the USSR and the USA reached parity in strategic nuclear weapons.
And if we assume that Stalin would get along with Hitler (this is completely impossible, ideology would not allow this, neither to Hitler nor Stalin), then the United States would not get involved in Europe at all, but would engage in the Western Hemisphere according to the Monroe Doctrine. In an extreme case, they would begin to pick up colonies, especially in Africa, left over from England and France occupied by the Continental Alliance.

[jhltyjyjctw]

Such nonsense is even too lazy to comment. If grandmother had a member, she would be a grandfather.

[dDYHA]

Curious but no more. You can draw a dozen more scenarios of this kind.

[Ragoz]

Drunk nonsense, not an article. Purely pro-American propaganda.

[prosto_rgb]

[quoteWhat would happen if the USSR entered into an alliance with Germany in 1940?] [/ quote]
So in August 1939 concluded.
Is it not enough?

[NF68]

And did it really need the USSR to seriously quarrel with the USA and the BI for Germany?

[Pattern]

Where does the information about Hitler's proposal to Stalin come from? Are you, by any chance, not a fan of Rezun-Suvorov?