Military Review

For the first time the Russian military was shown the new F-35

252
Three officers of the Russian Armed Forces inspected the Norwegian Air Force Airbase, including an inspection of the three newest F-35A fighter-bombers who had just arrived in the country from the United States a month ago. About this reports portal Forsvaret.no.


This is the first time that the Russian military has been given the opportunity to see for themselves the new aircraft.

For the first time the Russian military was shown the new F-35


The Russian officers were told about the combat capabilities of the F-35, the pilot training system. It is noted that all the photographs taken were subject to Norwegian control and do not violate the regime of secrecy.

The inspection was carried out as part of the Vienna Agreement concluded in 2011, according to which 57 OSCE members have the right to conduct periodic inspections of each other’s armies.

The F-35 is a family of unobtrusive fifth-generation multifunctional airplanes, which the American company Lockheed Martin has been developing and releasing since 2001. The fighter is available in three versions: A (normal for the Air Force), B (with a short takeoff and vertical landing) and C (deck).
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com/
252 comments
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  1. VLKSM
    VLKSM 16 December 2017 12: 23 New
    +5
    A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...
    1. Pirogov
      Pirogov 16 December 2017 12: 28 New
      28
      Quote: Komsomol
      Worthy opponent of SU-57

      This will show only air combat.
      1. LSA57
        LSA57 16 December 2017 12: 40 New
        +8
        Quote: Pirogov
        This will show only air combat.

        God forbid, of course. Well, if only training
        1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
          Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 16 December 2017 12: 59 New
          +8
          What kind of fight can we talk about if Su 57 has not yet run in the engines of the 2 stage. But they will be. Soon. Very soon. You have to wait a bit. And f35 cannot fly at supersonic speed without using afterburner and has a thrust-weight ratio of less than one.
          1. bulvas
            bulvas 16 December 2017 13: 07 New
            33
            Correct if I am mistaken

            The enemy of the Su-57 is the F-22, i.e. enemy aircraft

            F-35 - more fighter-bomber, mainly for ground strikes
            1. lieutenant colonel
              lieutenant colonel 21 December 2017 12: 14 New
              +1
              Comparison of the Su-35 (Su-57) on the one hand, and the F-22 on the other, as well as:
              Su-34 vs F-35? Is this comparable? Or all the same, different classes? Aviators, please explain.
          2. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 16 December 2017 13: 28 New
            +9
            F-35 can fly with super sound without afterburner, and yet the comment is higher than right. Su-57 vs F-22, not F-35
            1. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 17: 33 New
              +3
              Stone down. It's not complicated.
            2. The brightest
              The brightest 17 December 2017 07: 08 New
              +5
              Quote: BlackMokona
              F-35 can fly with super sound without afterburner
              It is a shame to write about this as an achievement, two weeks before 2018 ... MiG 25 (31) could have done it in 1965, and it will still be faster.
            3. Sacher Masoch
              Sacher Masoch 18 December 2017 10: 20 New
              0
              Su57 is not there yet, and F22 has been flying for 20 years, probably all has rusted and only SOON will it have a worthy competitor su57, the year so by 2019, but then F22 will probably already be removed from service.
          3. Roma
            Roma 1977 16 December 2017 15: 22 New
            +9
            The Su-57 has a higher speed even with the engines of the first stage.
          4. opus
            opus 16 December 2017 17: 25 New
            +8
            Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
            And f35 cannot fly at supersonic speed without using afterburner and has a thrust-weight ratio of less than one.

            Not certainly in that way:

            Quote: BlackMokona
            F-35 can fly with super sound without afterburner, and yet the comment is higher than right

            Also wrong

            The F-35 cannot cruise at supersonic speed, as defined by the definition. The only way to achieve supersonic flight with afterburning traction is to achieve maximum speed with afterburner (Mach 1,6), and then. switch to afterburner traction. After that, the F-35 can cover 150 miles in supersonic afterburner mode, until the resistance reduces its speed to subsonic. But super cruise speed means maintaining that speed for a while. The following is a quote that started the F-35 can supercruise ad:


            “What we can do in our airplane is get above the Mach with afterburner, and once you get it going ... you can definitely pull the throttle back quite a bit and still maintain supersonic, so technically you're pretty much at very, very min [imum] afterburner while you're cruising, ”Griffiths said. “So it really does have very good acceleration capabilities up in the air.”

            “While a fine bomb-hauler and (one hopes) a good multi-service airframe, the F-35 is a mediocre performer. The problem with the F-35 ... is speed. It doesn't have the capability to supercruise. Speed ​​lets us get inside the decision cycle of the bad guy. ”
            1st Fighter Wing commander Brigadier General Burton Field
            A withdrawal of 150 miles can, although it does not fall within the definition.

            Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
            and has a thrust-to-weight ratio of less than one.


            F35A F35B имеют 1.07-1,1(F35B)

            Engine thrust without afterburner 13000 kgf (125 kN)
            Afterburner thrust 19500 kgf (191 kN)
            (T / W) cruise = 191 / ((000 13 + 154/8278) * 2)
          5. gerkost2012
            gerkost2012 17 December 2017 10: 45 New
            +1
            The engine of the "second stage", what is it? I must say bluntly that the engine is still not ready on the T-50 (Su-57)! And without an engine and an airplane, no. A F-35 is.
      2. katana
        katana 16 December 2017 13: 06 New
        22
        It seems to me or the forum users agree with me that the title of the article was not thought out a bit: “For the first time the Russian military showed the new F-35?” Type heading: “A new musket with a muzzle charge was shown to the natives of Papua New Guinea.” I got the impression article headings, sorry for comparing. request
        1. poquello
          poquello 16 December 2017 13: 16 New
          +6
          "So here you are - the reindeer!" )))))))))))))))))))
        2. alexmach
          alexmach 17 December 2017 00: 06 New
          +2
          Yes, a normal heading, clearly reflects the incident. About Aboriginal people - this is your insenuity.
      3. MOLODCHIK
        MOLODCHIK 16 December 2017 14: 50 New
        +4
        drying has no chance.
        1. poquello
          poquello 16 December 2017 15: 48 New
          +8
          Quote: MOLODCHIK
          drying has no chance.

          the only thing I know for sure is that the T90 is difficult to destroy, and the rest of the reasoning
        2. opus
          opus 16 December 2017 18: 17 New
          +5
          Quote: MOLODCHIK
          drying has no chance.

          to miss?
          Quote: Chertt
          Straight computer game


          from 57m - not ready yet
          1. poquello
            poquello 16 December 2017 20: 37 New
            0
            Quote: opus
            Quote: MOLODCHIK
            drying has no chance.

            to miss?
            Quote: Chertt
            Straight computer game


            from 57m - not ready yet

            cool, and why don't the missile defense maneuvers do?
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 17 December 2017 00: 34 New
            +1
            From the film, I realized that in the considered scenario “4 vs 4” will the F-35 have a slight advantage or a draw?
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 17 December 2017 02: 06 New
              +2
              4 vs 4 in the presence of ground-based radar.
              Look at the second part, the conclusions are voiced there at the end.
          3. alexmach
            alexmach 17 December 2017 02: 05 New
            +1
            Oh, entertaining video, thanks.
        3. ser65
          ser65 16 December 2017 18: 47 New
          +3
          overdue frogs bit off?
    2. Chertt
      Chertt 16 December 2017 12: 31 New
      23
      Quote: Komsomol
      A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

      Interesting opponents, the F-35 is a defective designer who hopes to bring to mind, against which the Su-57 is not yet. Straight computer game
    3. Settlement Oparyshev
      Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 12: 32 New
      +7
      57 heavy strategic fighter, and 35 close multipurpose. Weight categories are different. Although they will meet, no doubt.
      1. Rushnairfors
        Rushnairfors 16 December 2017 12: 44 New
        18
        Strategic fighter? What is this know-how?
        1. Cat
          Cat 16 December 2017 13: 05 New
          +5
          Quote: Oparyshev
          57 heavy strategic fighter, and 35 close multipurpose. Weight categories are different. Although they will meet, no doubt.

          Quote: Rushnairfors
          Strategic fighter? What is this know-how?

          Get used to it!
          The next post will be like horses in Moscow will be thrown! And the most important thing is that it’s not itself, it’s the truth, according to the theory of Grekov-Fomenko-Nasonov !!!
          1. Settlement Oparyshev
            Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 13: 43 New
            +4
            I deliberately inserted the “strategic” one, so that they would stick out with rottenness to be clever. You yourself are a “historian,” and it’s unlikely that you can write a way ticket in aviation.
            1. Chertt
              Chertt 16 December 2017 14: 02 New
              15
              Quote: pp to Oparyshev
              I specifically inserted a “strategic” one so that they would stick out with rotten

              I.e. you spoiled the air loudly, And then you were offended by the one who grimaced. I’m surprised that it happens in people’s heads
              1. Settlement Oparyshev
                Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 14: 10 New
                0
                You are mistaken. Air has nothing to do with it and what touched you is not surprised. Your distorted perception of information has long been noticed.
                1. Chertt
                  Chertt 16 December 2017 14: 15 New
                  10
                  Quote: pp to Oparyshev
                  Your distorted perception of information has long been noticed.

                  Thank you, my opinion about your comment has not changed, but flattery is pleasant wink
                  1. Settlement Oparyshev
                    Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 14: 18 New
                    0
                    There is again a distortion and my indication of this you call flattery !!? Miracles and more.
                  2. vm-bt
                    vm-bt 17 December 2017 13: 47 New
                    0
                    So, to whom - a waffle, and to whom - a caramel !!! The taste and color .. as they say ....
            2. dubovitskiy.1947
              dubovitskiy.1947 17 December 2017 18: 37 New
              +1
              Quote: pp to Oparyshev
              I deliberately inserted the “strategic” one, so that they would stick out with rottenness to be clever. You yourself are a “historian,” and it’s unlikely that you can write a way ticket in aviation.

              Clever and without rotten ON TO REMEMBER will write together, in one word.
        2. Settlement Oparyshev
          Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 13: 44 New
          +1
          And which 57th fighter? Tactical? Or operational-tactical? Specify.
          1. Voyager
            Voyager 16 December 2017 16: 49 New
            +8
            He is a fighter simply: a fighter. it can be an interceptor, it can be a fighter-bomber, or it can be multi-purpose. Grading "strategic, tactical, etc." does not apply to fighters.

            But it applies to bombers, which are distinguished by a long flight range, high mass weapons with a devastating effect. (cruise missiles, heavy bombs. Among other things, such features as comfortable conditions for the crew and its vital functions are taken into account.

            Modern fighter jets can possess such buns, but this does not make them “strategists,” because these are just additional options.
            1. Rushnairfors
              Rushnairfors 16 December 2017 17: 15 New
              +6
              A fighter, he is not just a fighter. In accordance with the Air Force control unit, until recently, there were 3 types of fighters, depending on the functions performed: front-line fighters, fighter-bomber and fighter-interceptor. The first 2 types were part of the front-line aviation, along with the FBA and attack aircraft. Interceptor fighters were a kind of separate “caste”. Relatively recently, specifically in the Russian Air Force, the term multipurpose fighter appeared. Su57 I would refer specifically to this type.
            2. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 17: 35 New
              0
              No gradation? you’ll have to forget about the fighters over the front line, and those who accompany the strategists in the long flight. And the current all happened right ...
            3. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 17: 40 New
              +1
              In the comfortable conditions for the crew, the toilet under the navigator’s chair is welcome. I’m waiting for you all. Strategists are accompanied by tactical hawks throughout the flight. What am I doing here?
          2. sabakina
            sabakina 16 December 2017 17: 29 New
            +8
            Quote: pp to Oparyshev
            And which 57th fighter? Tactical? Or operational-tactical? Specify.

            What are you molesting? Space he! Cosmic and generally go to sleep!
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. sabakina
                sabakina 16 December 2017 17: 38 New
                +8
                What are you molesting? I'm going on foot!
        3. kirgiz58
          kirgiz58 16 December 2017 21: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: Rushnairfors
          Strategic fighter? What is this know-how?

          With such a nickname and not know ?! Ayayayayay! I think you will agree with the term "superiority fighter." And the 57th fully corresponds to this purpose. And gaining superiority in the air is not a tactical task at all, but a strategic one, hence the "strategic fighter." Deduction however laughing
          1. Rushnairfors
            Rushnairfors 16 December 2017 22: 24 New
            +2
            Creative answer. I'll take it into service.
            1. kirgiz58
              kirgiz58 16 December 2017 22: 27 New
              0
              Quote: Rushnairfors
              I'll take it into service.

              Take it, I’m not sorry. I can’t create this yet, if I pick my nose and scratch the back of my head. what (like this) smile
          2. dubovitskiy.1947
            dubovitskiy.1947 17 December 2017 18: 40 New
            +1
            Quote: kirgiz58
            Quote: Rushnairfors
            Strategic fighter? What is this know-how?

            With such a nickname and not know ?! Ayayayayay! I think you will agree with the term "superiority fighter." And the 57th fully corresponds to this purpose. And gaining superiority in the air is not a tactical task at all, but a strategic one, hence the "strategic fighter." Deduction however laughing

            Your deductive method can lead from the word KILLER to the bark beetle.
        4. opus
          opus 17 December 2017 15: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: Rushnairfors
          Strategic fighter? E

          In 1934, several countries in Europe developed a strategic fighter. In Germany, the Imperial Ministry of Aviation (RLM) issued a specification for twin-engine, three-seat, with an all-metal monoplane, armed with air guns and capable of carrying a bomb load, a fighter of widespread use.



          At the beginning of August 1940 strategic fighter Messerschmitt Bf 110B (A), constituting the elite units of the Luftwaffe - a group of "hunters", from the bases in France and Benelux launched the Adlerangriff air offensive operation, which aimed to bring England to its knees. German propaganda claimed that the groups of "hunters" were invincible, and there was no doubt that the "hunter" could do everything ...


          The strategic fighter, a striking example of which was the Bf 110, was widely believed to have been born in the 30s. In reality, it was conceived back in the years of the First World War, and its advantages were extolled by advocates of the air war even before the appearance of the first lines on drawing boards. At its core, the strategic fighter was a high-speed, heavily armed aircraft with a sufficient flight range for escorting bombers, operations inland, and patrolling away from its base. Since World War I, the name Kampfflugzeug has been assigned to the aircraft - “combat aircraft”, but names from marine terminology have taken root in Germany and the Netherlands: Zerstorer - literally “fighter” (according to the terminology adopted in the fleet of the Russian Empire until 1905) or “hunter” "in the first and" air cruiser "in the last. But whatever its name, practice has shown that, despite the tremendous efforts in working on this type between the world wars, it was not possible to create an acceptable strategic fighter.



          Heavy fighter Bell YFM-1 Airacuda (USA), in fact it’s


          Heinkel He-219 "Uhu" (Eagle Owl)


          Heavy fighter Pe-3.


          including everything's Alright
      2. DMoroz
        DMoroz 16 December 2017 12: 48 New
        +2
        it has already been re-functionalized in summer escort and guidance on the target ...
        1. Settlement Oparyshev
          Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 17: 37 New
          0
          Fugue topic is closed on all counts.
      3. dorz
        dorz 16 December 2017 13: 04 New
        +6
        The Russian military was first shown

        Americans are also worth a ride and show secret weapons.
        1. poquello
          poquello 16 December 2017 13: 19 New
          +2
          Quote: dorz
          The Russian military was first shown

          Americans are also worth a ride and show secret weapons.

          Th, threw two bombs, shmyak shmyak and did not explode, this is to the USSR
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 16 December 2017 13: 35 New
            +5
            Quote: poquello
            Th, threw two bombs, shmyak shmyak and did not explode, this is to the USSR

            they say in the days of the USSR, China dropped a rubber bomb. 5 thousand soldiers died
            1. poquello
              poquello 16 December 2017 13: 37 New
              +6
              Quote: LSA57
              Quote: poquello
              Th, threw two bombs, shmyak shmyak and did not explode, this is to the USSR

              they say in the days of the USSR, China dropped a rubber bomb. 5 thousand soldiers died

              It was - while died, and not rubber but rubber
              1. LSA57
                LSA57 16 December 2017 13: 48 New
                +6
                Quote: poquello
                was - while it died, and not rubber but rubber

                rubber, this is already the 2nd generation laughing
            2. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 14: 19 New
              +2
              What are the children?
              1. poquello
                poquello 16 December 2017 15: 40 New
                10
                Quote: pp to Oparyshev
                What are the children?

                the children do not remember this, because they did not find it, but in general every adult is someone else’s child
        2. TOR2
          TOR2 16 December 2017 15: 05 New
          +7
          And what kind of antenna is sticking out from under the hay? And don’t say it’s a pitchfork. smile
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 16 December 2017 16: 11 New
            10
            Quote: TOR2
            And what kind of antenna is sticking out from under the hay? And don’t say it’s a pitchfork.

            fiber optic target designator
          2. midivan
            midivan 16 December 2017 16: 54 New
            11
            It’s a shame, comrade Colonel, I don’t recognize the EW "Lever-AV" complex! Two outfits in the queue!
    4. Hunter
      Hunter 16 December 2017 12: 44 New
      +5
      Quote: Komsomol
      A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

      I think our officers puked from watching later, laughing! In Syria, they have seen enough ..
      1. Fighter
        Fighter 16 December 2017 12: 54 New
        11
        This is where you saw them there, interesting?
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 16 December 2017 17: 34 New
          +6
          Quote: Fighter
          This is where you saw them there, interesting?

          It is clear that the Chukchi is not a reader, the Chukchi is a writer.
      2. poquello
        poquello 16 December 2017 13: 21 New
        +6
        Quote: Hunter
        Quote: Komsomol
        A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

        I think our officers puked from watching later, laughing! In Syria, they have seen enough ..

        and "Vasya was here!" given to write?
        1. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 16 December 2017 15: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: poquello
          poquello Today, 13:21 PM ↑ New
          Quote: Hunter
          Quote: Komsomol
          A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

          I think our officers puked from watching later, laughing! In Syria, they have seen enough ..

          and "Vasya was here!" given to write?

          Dali. On a specially selected birch log for the fireplace insert.
    5. Dimontius
      Dimontius 16 December 2017 12: 49 New
      +1
      I guess we’ve done ourselves
    6. serenja
      serenja 16 December 2017 13: 16 New
      +9
      Yeah, worthy .... You can start with the fact that the su-57 has 2 engines against one of the f-35s with a thrust of one and a half times more than every American. Of course, it’s difficult for him to write down the dimensions of our aircraft as a plus (length - 20,1m, against 15,6m, max take-off weight - 37t, against 31t), but amers don't even talk about maneuverable combat when, like ours -57 has all the characteristics of a super-manoeuvrable aircraft; to the heap, it has radar in the rear hemisphere. For f-35, the deflected thrust vector only serves to land / take off on an aircraft carrier. Maximum distance, detection / capture radius, etc. etc ... = / In short, it is not correct to compare f-35 with su-57. In terms of its tasks and capabilities, it would probably be worth comparing it with the MiG-35 deck modification, but it loses to it in terms of maneuverability and thrust-weight ratio.
      1. Rushnairfors
        Rushnairfors 16 December 2017 18: 03 New
        +3
        MiG35 deck modification where do we come from? Only the land took off recently ... Maybe you mean 29k?
    7. svp67
      svp67 16 December 2017 13: 21 New
      11
      Quote: Komsomol
      A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

      Sorry, but how can he be an opponent of what, by and large, is not yet? You compare the number of F-35s with the Su-57 and everything will become clear to you.
      1. VLKSM
        VLKSM 16 December 2017 13: 24 New
        +6
        Yes, in the know, mother wrote ... wink Is it possible to dream? hi
        1. svp67
          svp67 16 December 2017 13: 30 New
          +6
          hi
          Quote: Komsomol
          Is it possible to dream?

          Of course. No one does not prohibit. Although I am not happy with such news. How I wish that in our sky, the next year at least a couple of Su-57 squadrons appeared. This would greatly affect our "foreign partners"
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 16 December 2017 17: 03 New
            +3
            Quote: svp67
            This would greatly affect our "foreign partners"

            Well, how did it affect?
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 16 December 2017 17: 44 New
              +6
              Sergey, hi , you somehow did not read "would".
              1. LSA57
                LSA57 16 December 2017 18: 18 New
                +2
                Quote: sabakina
                Sergey, somehow you wouldn’t read "would."

                They did not lead to execution recourse Guilty so to speak ... recourse I didn’t notice ... recourse
      2. serenja
        serenja 16 December 2017 13: 36 New
        +5
        In May, 2 su-57 will be sent to the GLIC https://topwar.ru/131904-v-2018-godu-vks-nachnut-
        osvoenie-noveyshego-su-57.html That, of course, we are lagging behind, but with such a thing it is better to overdo than not finish, otherwise it will turn out f-35.
    8. NEXUS
      NEXUS 16 December 2017 13: 22 New
      14
      Quote: Komsomol
      A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

      For the SU-57 F-35 is not an opponent at all. You are talking about a heavy IFI against an average single-engine fighter-bomber, which, with maneuverability, is very bad compared to our machine.
      1. svp67
        svp67 16 December 2017 13: 31 New
        11
        Quote: NEXUS
        You are talking about a heavy IFI against an average single-engine fighter-bomber, which, with maneuverability, is very bad compared to our machine.

        You know, all this is WORDS, but if you look at the characteristics of the F-35, it becomes clear that he is a VERY serious opponent. Highly. Capable of much, especially since the Americans have a F-22 in pair with him
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 16 December 2017 13: 41 New
          12
          Quote: svp67
          but if you look at the characteristics of the F-35, it becomes clear that he is a VERY serious opponent

          You know, the Phantom was also much cooler and more armed than our MIG-21 on paper, so what? Remind you of the ratio of downed planes in that war? 1 to 4 in favor of our fighter. Well it is, the lyrics ...
          Now, with regards to the TTX F-35 and its seriousness, as an enemy in aerial combat. To begin with, this is a single-engine medium fighter-bomber. At the same time, he is more of a bomber than a fighter. In conjunction with the F-22, say ... well, we have a bunch, the SU-35 and SU-30 ... and then what?
          And soon there will be serial ROFAR and then I wonder what place the mattresses should push the stealth technology so propelled that they so hope for, having developed both the F-22 and F-35?
          1. svp67
            svp67 16 December 2017 13: 44 New
            +3
            Quote: NEXUS
            Remind you of the ratio of downed planes in that war?

            Remind me. And not only this ratio, but also how many were there, on each side, how many combat sorties they made. That is, compare, so compare. All. To understand what was the combat effectiveness of these aircraft. By the way, if we equate, then the F-35 is more similar to our 21st than the Su-57
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 16 December 2017 13: 54 New
              +9
              Quote: svp67
              By the way, if we equate, then the F-35 is more similar to our 21st than the Su-57

              What is it like? By its single-motor power? MIG-21 is a LFI, whose task was to stick everything into the ground that flew from that side of the front, and its coverage area was directly above the front line. That is, not only Phantoms was their problem, but also air defense.
              Now on F-35 ... this machine does not fall within the definition of a front-line fighter. In fact, it is something between a ground attack aircraft and a bomber with some claim to the title of fighter. In this regard, it will be much more correct to compare it with the SU-34, which has approximately the same tasks.
              If you mean the number of F-35s against SU-57 ... well, so far we have the main heavy MFIs not SU-57, but SU-30 and in the future there will be SU-35. And in 10 years it will become SU-57 .
              1. svp67
                svp67 16 December 2017 13: 57 New
                +5
                Quote: NEXUS
                And in 10 years the SU-57 will become

                And what will NATO have at that moment?
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 16 December 2017 13: 58 New
                  +9
                  Quote: svp67
                  And what will NATO have at that moment?

                  All the same F-35, which will be in service, as was definitely the United States Department of Defense until 2070.
                  1. Shahno
                    Shahno 16 December 2017 14: 02 New
                    +4
                    I would say something between su 34 and the moment 29. If they are equipped with normal electronics. A platform f 35 of course will remain for another years on 30. I don’t know until 70 x years.
                  2. svp67
                    svp67 16 December 2017 14: 03 New
                    +6
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    All the same F-35, which will be in service, as was definitely the United States Department of Defense until 2070.

                    They, the rich, have their own quirks, and most importantly opportunities. Something tells me that at this time he will not be ONE in the sky, but in a company with combat UAVs
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 16 December 2017 14: 09 New
                      +7
                      Quote: svp67
                      Something tells me that at this time he will not be ONE in the sky, but in a company with combat UAVs

                      So here we are developing the PAK DP with the speed characteristics of 4,5-5 max ... and I doubt very much that this interceptor will be manned at such speeds. And in the MIG Design Bureau, if sclerosis doesn’t change me, since the age of 13 they say that they are developing on a proactive basis an LFI of generation 5. At the same time, MIG-35 is being completed, which should become massive. At the same time, as I said above, on the ROFAR approach, which will negate all these stealth technologies and then what will mattresses be left with?
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 16 December 2017 14: 19 New
                        +1
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        And in the MIG Design Bureau, if sclerosis does not change me, from the age of 13 they say that they are developing the 5th generation LFI on an initiative basis

                        Alas, but without state funding, these are only TALKS ,,,
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        At the same time, the MIG-35 is being completed, which should become mass.

                        And again ABOUT TWO ENGINES ... Not "in a trend it already", on "" twin-engine "no one is already fighting"
                    2. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 16 December 2017 14: 26 New
                      +8
                      Quote: svp67
                      Not "in the trend it is already", on "" twin-engine "no one is already fighting"

                      Seriously? wassat Well, let's look at the Chinese fighters: J-20, J-31, ours, mattresses with their F-22, Britons, Eurofighter ... absolutely no one is at war ... wassat
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 16 December 2017 14: 32 New
                        +1
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Well, let's look at the Chinese fighters: J-20, J-31, ours, mattresses with their F-22, Britons, Eurofighter ... absolutely no one is at war ..

                        And we immediately remove the F-22 and J-20, they are from a different class. And now we remember where the rest are fighting ... but the F-16 is fighting the most massive light fighter.
                  3. Dart
                    Dart 16 December 2017 21: 14 New
                    +4
                    I laid it out correctly, I agree. And yes, until the parks on all sides are updated, the confrontation will be SU27 (in various versions) vs F-16 (all block).
                    Everything else that is not mass-weather does not do at all.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 16 December 2017 21: 57 New
                      +5
                      Quote: Dartys
                      Everything else that is not mass-weather does not do at all.

                      Here is a video about our SU-57 with comments from Westerners ...

                      I wonder how the mattresses will call him ... the first letter F, but then what?
                      1. omit
                        omit 17 December 2017 13: 58 New
                        0
                        NEXUS [/ i] I wonder how the mattresses will call him ... the first letter F, and then what? [i]
                        I don’t know how mattresses are, but I would call it “Chicken of Tobacco”, is it true that it is crushed by some kind of?
                2. serenja
                  serenja 16 December 2017 14: 21 New
                  +6
                  Have you forgot the purpose of the f-35?
                  F-22 raptor turned out to be very expensive for many NATO countries, even simply at its original price. Then the American aircraft designers decided to help the European partners a bit and make a fighter-bomber-interceptor-and-hz. also that sitting down on the deck of small English aircraft carriers vertically.
                  Continue?
                  1. Shahno
                    Shahno 16 December 2017 14: 24 New
                    +1
                    So what's the problem? It complies with the declared specifications. Mission accomplished.
                    1. serenja
                      serenja 16 December 2017 14: 29 New
                      +3
                      Well, not quite yet. They are not even trying to land him on aircraft carriers.
                      1. opus
                        opus 16 December 2017 17: 33 New
                        +5
                        Quote: serenja
                        Well, not quite yet. They are not even trying to land him on aircraft carriers.

                        belay



                  2. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 16 December 2017 14: 31 New
                    +8
                    Quote: serenja
                    Have you forgot the purpose of the f-35?

                    The tactics of use and tasks for this platform have been changed three times in my memory. At the same time, the F-35 was originally developed under the "weak" enemy. Stealth technology is very controversial and far from a panacea, and mattresses on it made the main emphasis. Answer your question, what will happen to these F-35s with strong opposition not only from enemy fighters (I'm talking about modern fighters), but also layered modern air defense?
                    And about the "help" to the Europeans, this is certainly strong ... laughing
                    Quote: serenja
                    Continue?

                    Of course ... I was very curious.
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 16 December 2017 19: 04 New
                      +2
                      “The usage tactics and tasks for this platform have changed three times in my memory.” ///

                      He goes to replace the F-16. But since those. tasks complicated everything and complicated it in the design process, then he had the opportunity not only superior to the F-16, but also the F-15 and F-22.
                      You can’t put a pilot from any other aircraft on the F-35. Retrain completely. Do not fly: it’s very simple to operate,
                      but in orientation, interaction with other planes and military branches and the use of weapons. Therefore, they sit on simulators for six months, until they bring to the helm.
                      1. iouris
                        iouris 17 December 2017 12: 47 New
                        +1
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        sit on simulators for six months, until they bring to the helm.

                        Not "until they get to the helm", but for now "they will not reach the handle." By the way, why is the “handle” located between the legs and not the side?
                      2. Sparkling
                        Sparkling wine - Dry 18 December 2017 11: 54 New
                        +2
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        superior to the F-16, but also the F-15 and F-22

                        Are you sure (at the expense of F-22)?
                3. LSA57
                  LSA57 16 December 2017 14: 27 New
                  +4
                  Quote: svp67
                  And what will NATO have at that moment?

                  But will it be NATO? In Europe, the idea of ​​creating an army is now circulating. then they certainly will not need NATO
                4. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 16 December 2017 14: 37 New
                  +7
                  svp67,
                  Quote: svp67
                  but the F-16 and the most massive light fighter is fighting.

                  So is this your “trend”? Hm ... this “trend” is almost 50 years old. By the way, light fighters as a class are already leaving the stage, moving to the middle class. And then there are two ways, either to do single-engine with great traction, or twin-engine with total good traction. Ours so far are on the second path. At the same time, the maneuverability of twin-engine machines is better, and traction can be obtained much more than one.
                5. BMP-2
                  BMP-2 16 December 2017 17: 09 New
                  +3
                  I hope NATO will not be there by that time. laughing
              2. serenja
                serenja 16 December 2017 14: 03 New
                +5
                With the su-34 it is not serious to compare even for the payload. Before the heap, the Su-34 has 2 radars, electronic warfare equipment, the ability to conduct maneuverable combat. All this STELS still Serbs 1999 from s125 kicked, ours are leading it confidently.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 16 December 2017 14: 10 New
                  +7
                  Quote: serenja
                  With the su-34 it is not serious to compare even for the payload.

                  I compare them by TASKS and APPLICATION.
                  1. serenja
                    serenja 16 December 2017 14: 35 New
                    +3
                    I would like to someday hear from our and American aces the answer to the question: “Would he accept the fight in his car?”, But in a purely hypothetical sphere.
                2. LSA57
                  LSA57 16 December 2017 14: 29 New
                  +4
                  Quote: serenja
                  All this STELS still Serbs 1999 from s125 kicked, ours are leading it confidently.

                  where does one of them using a conventional microwave laughing
                  1. serenja
                    serenja 16 December 2017 14: 49 New
                    +3
                    Well, including pointing at false targets =)
                  2. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 17 December 2017 15: 02 New
                    +2
                    Quote: LSA57
                    where does one of them using a conventional microwave

                    - Guys! I shot a Stells plane on a hunt yesterday. - Che are you lying ?! "Stells" - an invisible plane, it is not visible. - Well yes! The plane is not visible, but the pilot is visible!
                3. opus
                  opus 17 December 2017 02: 59 New
                  +2
                  Quote: serenja
                  Su-34 2 radars to the heap, electronic warfare

                  2nd (radar) not yet.

                  ?

                  there APU (it has nothing to do with Ukraine)
                  Although the container of the brake parachute, moved a little forward and performed a retractable landing.
                  electronic warfare (and not in the container) is in the F-35, and probably better.
                  The same BCVK, based on Freescale PowerPC (in my military 64-bit PowerPC 970)
                  CPU Up to 2 System Processor / Display
                  Processor Modules:
                  • System Processor:
                  »> 2900 DMIPS, 1MB L2 Cache
                  "512MB DRAM, 256MB Flash
                  »128KB NOVRAM
                  • Display Processor:
                  »> 2200 DMIPS, 1MB L2 Cache
                  "256MB DRAM, 128MB Flash
                  Up to 3 System Processor / Display
                  Processor Modules:
                  • System Processor:
                  »> 2900 DMIPS, 1MB L2 Cache
                  "512MB DRAM, 256MB Flash
                  »128KB NOVRAM
                  • Display Processor:
                  »> 2200 DMIPS, 1MB L2 Cache
                  "256MB DRAM, 128MB Flash

                  against BTsVM-486-2K
                  CPU: i486DX4-90 wink
                  ›Bit: 32 bit
                  ›Performance
                  "With a fixed point: not less than 90 mln.op./s
                  "Floating point: not less than 6 mln.op./s
                  ›ROM: 4 MB
                  ›RAM (static): 2 MB
                  ›32-bit system bus, maximum (peak) speed
                  exchange 120 MB / s
                  ›Watсhdog and health monitoring scheme

                  Quote: serenja
                  Sy this STELS still Serbs 1999 from s125 kicked, our conduct it confidently.

                  there was "another", and they accidentally popped

                  Quote: LSA57
                  where does one of them using a conventional microwave

                  fool
                  what heresy
          2. Captain Pushkin
            Captain Pushkin 16 December 2017 15: 06 New
            +1
            Quote: NEXUS
            You know, the Phantom was also much cooler and more armed than our MIG-21 on paper, so what? Remind you of the ratio of downed planes in that war? 1 to 4 in favor of our fighter. Well it is, the lyrics ...

            It depended on tactics. In the Middle East, there were wars that were not similar to the Vietnam War, and the loss ratios of the MiG-21 and F-4 were different there. And in Vietnam, the ratio of 1 to 4 was for a very limited period of time.
          3. Vadim237
            Vadim237 16 December 2017 21: 21 New
            +1
            The phantom was good over long distances, but in the melee Mig won and the Phantom did not have an air gun.
            1. iouris
              iouris 17 December 2017 12: 58 New
              0
              Firstly, the MiG-21 "had no guns." Secondly, it is difficult to call the distance of 20-30 km "far". The point is not at all in this, but in the organization of military operations of the aircraft and in the American criteria for evaluating the MiG-21. The MiG-21 attacked unexpectedly and left (it carried only two weak URs), it was the most likely enemy, and the command considers any losses unacceptable.
          4. dubovitskiy.1947
            dubovitskiy.1947 17 December 2017 18: 49 New
            0
            Quote: NEXUS
            Quote: svp67
            but if you look at the characteristics of the F-35, it becomes clear that he is a VERY serious opponent

            You know, the Phantom was also much cooler and more armed than our MIG-21 on paper, so what? Remind you of the ratio of downed planes in that war? 1 to 4 in favor of our fighter. Well it is, the lyrics ...
            Now, with regards to the TTX F-35 and its seriousness, as an enemy in aerial combat. To begin with, this is a single-engine medium fighter-bomber. At the same time, he is more of a bomber than a fighter. In conjunction with the F-22, say ... well, we have a bunch, the SU-35 and SU-30 ... and then what?
            And soon there will be serial ROFAR and then I wonder what place the mattresses should push the stealth technology so propelled that they so hope for, having developed both the F-22 and F-35?

            I would say VENDENDURIV in the development of these airplanes dough, almost equal to the entire budget of Russia.
        2. VALERIK_097
          VALERIK_097 16 December 2017 13: 48 New
          +1
          wink No one paid attention to the fact that NATO has surrendered its place of basing and obohushivaniya)))
          this type of aircraft.
          1. svp67
            svp67 16 December 2017 13: 52 New
            +4
            Quote: VALERIK_097
            No one paid attention to the fact that NATO has surrendered its place of basing and obohushcheniya))) of this type of aircraft.

            Here bash on bash. They would refuse and we would show them "nevermind" next time ...
            And at the expense of the place of basing, it’s not worth offending our scouts, they are not in vain eating their bread. Not for good reason, so our inspectors were there, oh not for nothing ...
            1. VALERIK_097
              VALERIK_097 16 December 2017 14: 22 New
              +3
              Oh, it’s not for nothing that SpetsStroy Russia in the wilderness of the Murmansk Region, it is no coincidence that three GDPs were built.
              1. svp67
                svp67 16 December 2017 14: 29 New
                +5
                Quote: VALERIK_097
                Oh, it’s not for nothing that SpetsStroy Russia in the wilderness of the Murmansk Region, it is no coincidence that three GDPs were built.

                Yes, how could you think that. This is a PURE ACCIDENTITY, and most importantly a PERSONAL initiative of the SpetsStroy leadership and their money, personal ...
                1. VALERIK_097
                  VALERIK_097 16 December 2017 14: 36 New
                  +1
                  Well, maybe not personal, but they built it. My brother fell under reduction.
                2. Yuyuka
                  Yuyuka 16 December 2017 20: 18 New
                  +4
                  Quote: svp67
                  Quote: VALERIK_097
                  Oh, it’s not for nothing that SpetsStroy Russia in the wilderness of the Murmansk Region, it is no coincidence that three GDPs were built.

                  Yes, how could you think that. This is a PURE ACCIDENTITY, and most importantly a PERSONAL initiative of the SpetsStroy leadership and their money, personal ...


                  just asphalt paths ... to blueberries and cloudberries repeat
            2. VALERIK_097
              VALERIK_097 16 December 2017 14: 51 New
              +3
              We have NATO training flights: Severomorsk-3 (limited), Kilp-Jarve limited), Monchegorsk.
              On the other hand, satellites see everything when the weather is nice.
              But for some reason we do not have it in the North.
          2. iouris
            iouris 17 December 2017 13: 02 New
            0
            Quote: VALERIK_097
            NATO has lost its base

            The minaviaprom delegation in January 1941 purchased all the aircraft of interest to them in Germany.
      2. Settlement Oparyshev
        Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 14: 21 New
        +1
        It seems that they are not willing to invest in the 57th. Apparently, the efforts were transferred to the 6th generation, otherwise you can’t manage to do it from 6m if you spray.
    9. Piramidon
      Piramidon 16 December 2017 14: 26 New
      +2
      Quote: Komsomol
      A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

      These are different "weight categories". You would say - a worthy adversary of the Tu-160.
    10. Sergey53
      Sergey53 16 December 2017 15: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: Komsomol
      A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

      What is the adversary? Trough striped. Itself does not fly, and interferes with others.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 17 December 2017 15: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: Sergey53
        What is the adversary? Trough striped. Itself does not fly, and interferes with others.

        The Mongolian Air Force kite crashed yesterday. Mongolia no longer has an air force. After this incident, the Minister of Defense shot himself. Now there are no cartridges in Mongolia.
        And Estonian air defenses do not believe in the existence of supersonic aircraft.
        1. dubovitskiy.1947
          dubovitskiy.1947 17 December 2017 18: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: Stroporez
          And Estonian air defenses do not believe in the existence of supersonic aircraft.


          Do not joke like that. They will punish the adult. That will accelerate and take off ....
    11. Tusv
      Tusv 16 December 2017 16: 02 New
      +1
      Quote: Komsomol
      Worthy opponent of the SU-57.

      Fell stuck. With dvigunom the first stage, on which the Su 37 flies, and then the Raptor screwed up hi
      And what a handsome man that is.
      The limitation on the glider is 2 and FSE, Drying in the tail hovered ... Oh Horror. This is Yankki ka be us Citizens of Yankostan. We are not to blame for what Vladimir Vladimirov Prezikov appoints for you. Choose your hi
    12. electrooleg
      electrooleg 16 December 2017 16: 11 New
      0
      Quote: Komsomol
      A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...


      Heavenly iron. They also have sea. laughing
  2. Sergey53
    Sergey53 16 December 2017 12: 24 New
    +1
    Showed? So what's next? Pray for him?
    1. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 16 December 2017 12: 29 New
      +7
      Quote: Sergey53
      Showed? So what's next? Pray for him?

      Not. "... Russian officers were told about the combat capabilities of the F-35." Maybe they’ll get scared ...
      1. Chertt
        Chertt 16 December 2017 12: 33 New
        10
        Quote: Vasyan1971
        Russian officers were told about the combat capabilities of the F-35. "Perhaps they’ll get scared ...

        And the Norwegians were scared when the Russian officers were not scared
      2. LSA57
        LSA57 16 December 2017 12: 43 New
        22
        Quote: Vasyan1971
        Maybe they’ll get scared ...

        and ours said a magic phrase laughing
        1. VLKSM
          VLKSM 16 December 2017 13: 06 New
          +9
          laughingThey say that it was so ... Or maybe a bike, there are few living witnesses already, but even if this fact was pre-painted, it’s beautiful, damn it! hi
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 16 December 2017 13: 12 New
            +7
            Quote: Komsomol
            . And maybe a bike, there are few living witnesses

            but there is no smoke without fire smile
        2. VALERIK_097
          VALERIK_097 16 December 2017 14: 13 New
          +2
          LSA57? I’m asking you not to stick wherever you’ve got a photo of Vedenin.
          Last time you already laid out 12.12.17/XNUMX/XNUMX. One in one, this comment with a screen.
          No need for cheap populism.
          The site is not present
          And with photographic memory, everything is fine. Hello from the KGB
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 16 December 2017 14: 33 New
            +3
            Quote: VALERIK_097
            I’ll ask you not to stick wherever Vedenin’s photo hits

            Sorry, but this is the topic. I'm talking about the meaning

            Quote: VALERIK_097
            No need for cheap populism.

            never done this
            Quote: VALERIK_097
            LSA57? I’m asking you not to stick wherever you’ve got a photo of Vedenin.
            Last time you already laid out 12.12.17/XNUMX/XNUMX. One in one, this comment with a screen.
            No need for cheap populism.
            The site is not present
            And with photographic memory, everything is fine. Hello from the KGB

            I have no doubt, but what does it have to do with it? request
            1. VALERIK_097
              VALERIK_097 16 December 2017 18: 44 New
              +2
              LSA57-moderators cut the text a bit, and the essence of my comment is to dust.
              Hi from the KGB, I served there, and photos, digital memory from there. Sorry if I offended you.
              1. LSA57
                LSA57 16 December 2017 19: 44 New
                +2
                Quote: VALERIK_097
                Sorry if I offended you.

                everything is fine hi
        3. Vasyan1971
          Vasyan1971 16 December 2017 15: 19 New
          +5
          “With shouts:“ Heiko banzai! ”, Which means“ Glory to the Emperor! ”The brave Japanese rushed to the attack. And the Russian soldiers shouted:“ Again, make noise! ​​” "which also means" Glory to the emperor! "once again this attack was repelled."
          "Port Arthur". A.N. Stepanov. But I can not vouch for the accuracy of the quote. I read it in childhood, because.
        4. sabakina
          sabakina 16 December 2017 18: 07 New
          +6
          Sergey, 1972 .... How long has it been and how recently ....
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 16 December 2017 18: 22 New
            +4
            Quote: sabakina
            Sergey, 1972 .... How long has it been and how recently ...

            I graduated from high school that year and entered the GPTU. and there was also 1 episode of the USSR-Canada smile
            Now I watch Russia-Canada on TV, Channel 1 Cup smile
    2. Tusv
      Tusv 16 December 2017 16: 51 New
      +1
      Showed? So what's next? Pray for him?

      No one prays, they just run after the S-400 bully
    3. BMP-2
      BMP-2 16 December 2017 17: 10 New
      +1
      The Germans, too, before the war showed their technique ...
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 16 December 2017 18: 09 New
        +4
        Invalid comparison. Then, not that there was no nuclear weapons, there were no cruise missiles.
        1. BMP-2
          BMP-2 16 December 2017 18: 39 New
          +3
          Vyacheslav! My regards! hi I didn’t fully understand your idea of ​​the incorrectness: tanks and planes at that time were considered the most modern weapons - in fact, the Germans tried to show how technologically they were ahead of the USSR in order to plunge the potential enemy into gloom, because to reach their level in a short time, how it seemed to them absolutely impossible. Isn’t it the same thing we are seeing now when we hear about all these 5th, 10th, etc. “generations” which “they have there - are”, and “with us” - “are just being developed”?
    4. dubovitskiy.1947
      dubovitskiy.1947 17 December 2017 18: 57 New
      0
      Quote: Sergey53
      Showed? So what's next? Pray for him?

      I liked the fact that the Norwegians inspected the pictures taken by the inspectors. So that means the secret ones are not taken home. And MMSki also filtered?
  3. newcomer
    newcomer 16 December 2017 12: 30 New
    +5
    I wonder if the Yankees allowed them, or the initiative of the local harracker? laughing
    1. LSA57
      LSA57 16 December 2017 12: 45 New
      +5
      Quote: newbie
      I wonder if the Yankees allowed them, or the initiative of the local harracker?

      Yes, without their highest permission, the locals won’t even dare to sneeze
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 16 December 2017 12: 49 New
        +2
        Well, yes, that's why I'm joking.
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 16 December 2017 13: 01 New
          +3
          Quote: newbie
          Well, yes, that's why I'm joking.

          and they’re not kidding, everything is adult laughing
    2. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 16 December 2017 15: 10 New
      +2
      Quote: newbie

      2
      Newbie Today, 12: 30 New
      I wonder if the Yankees allowed them, or the initiative of the local harracker?

      And what was they shown and told what was not known before? Have you taken a photo? Well, so these pictures and so a dime a dozen.
    3. dubovitskiy.1947
      dubovitskiy.1947 17 December 2017 18: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: newbie
      I wonder if the Yankees allowed them, or the initiative of the local harracker? laughing

      There is such a contract. Mutual inspection. They were at our nuclear plant. We watched how we are doing on the conveyor beater.
  4. BLADFROST
    BLADFROST 16 December 2017 12: 32 New
    +1
    The raptor will be cooler! And so it’s already grandfathers! Our 35 is an order of magnitude cooler, and if you poke a new engine on it, then even more so. Vokruk SU - 35 can spin, but target capture cannot be avoided! And this is kirdyk!
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 16 December 2017 13: 31 New
      +7
      Quote: BLADFROST
      Our 35 is an order of magnitude cooler, and if you poke a new engine on it

      Are you talking about minced meat? (in the sense of avionics) or stealth? (in the sense of STELS) ...
      No one disputes his aerial acrobatics in close combat ... But before this phase of the battle you need to go through the stages: early warning, preferably with passive means (We have OLS-35, for amers - Link-16, broadcasting space and WII from everywhere) launching long-range missiles (we have P-77, K-77M, RVV-E, and ams have AIM-120D AMRAAM.) Well, we are ahead on the side electronic warfare, which gives us hope for a “dog dump” at the end of the rapprochement.
      Therefore, I personally have a great hope for anti-radar coverage and IR traps that lead away IR-GOS. I really like aviation, but I'm not a pilot. I remember something from the service, the guys are telling something (according to the OBS rule), but I would like to hear the pros who are in the subject. Es-no, within the framework of the permissible, and not cheer-patriotic stickies ...
      Ага.
      1. Town Hall
        Town Hall 16 December 2017 13: 37 New
        +1
        Quote: BoA KAA
        Well, on-board electronic warfare we are ahead, which gives us hope for a "dog dump" at the end of the rapprochement




        You can find out on what objective prerequisites this peremptory confidence is based?. Or is it just a matter of faith ?.


        EW is electronics first of all. I doubt that the USSR / Russia was when the thread leaders in this area. Especially now
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 16 December 2017 13: 40 New
          +3
          Quote: Town Hall
          You can find out on what objective prerequisites this peremptory confidence is based?. Or is it just a matter of faith ?.

          This is recognized even by the am. And secondly, --- OBS, as always ... But without reference to the media and their location ... Yeah. bully
          1. Town Hall
            Town Hall 16 December 2017 14: 59 New
            0
            Quote: BoA KAA
            This is recognized even by the am. And secondly, --- OBS, as always ... But without reference to the media and their location ... Yeah.




            National Interest what le?)
        2. Settlement Oparyshev
          Settlement Oparyshev 16 December 2017 15: 50 New
          0
          Maybe this Red Tolik caved in and did something.
        3. Yuyuka
          Yuyuka 16 December 2017 20: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: Town Hall
          Quote: BoA KAA
          Well, on-board electronic warfare we are ahead, which gives us hope for a "dog dump" at the end of the rapprochement




          You can find out on what objective prerequisites this peremptory confidence is based?. Or is it just a matter of faith ?.


          EW is electronics first of all. I doubt that the USSR / Russia was when the thread leaders in this area. Especially now


          I completely agree! our first rockets finally flew wood wassat do not confuse the elemental base with ... well, it doesn’t matter laughing and reb is, first and foremost, brains hi
      2. opus
        opus 16 December 2017 18: 03 New
        +6
        Quote: BoA KAA
        We have OLS-35, amers - Link-16, broadcasting space and WII from everywhere

        Well, the OLS-35 is not comme il faut to compare with Link16.

        Compare16 with a typical complex of communication equipment TKS-2-27, it includes a HF radio station R-864L, two VHF radio stations R-800L and equipment for telecode communication, secret communications, etc.

        Compare the OLS-35 with AN / AAQ-37 - a distributed optical aperture (EAS) system with a distributed aperture (DAS), consisting of 6 IR sensors located on the fuselage with a 360-degree viewing range and AAQ-40 - an omnidirectional infrared CCD-TV camera high resolution




        Quote: BoA KAA
        Link-16, broadcasting space

        Link 16 (TADIL J) tactical. with space "can not communicate"
        with space jreap needed and tadil

        Link16 compatible with US TADIL – J

        Ps /
        F-35 = MADL


        Quote: BoA KAA
        Well, on board electronic warfare we are ahead,

        not a fact
        AN / ASQ-239 (Barracuda) - electronic interference station (REP)

        It is a revised version of the RE / ANRR-94 electronic kit for the F-22 Raptor and provides electronic support and high-sensitivity electronic surveillance capabilities, situational awareness and multispectral anti-missile systems. According to some sources, Barracuda offers accurate geolocation and positioning of potential enemy emitters without the need for triangulation and thus the participation of another aircraft.

        Barracuda is also integrated with Northrop Grumman's Communications, Navigation and Intelligence (CNI) data channels for real-time data distribution, as well as the APG-81 AESA radar, which conducts radio surveillance and jamming and has the ability to maintain cyber warfare.

        also on the way an analogue of resettable DRFM, resettable anti-ALE-70, MJU-68, MJU-69 and CCU-168

        directional infrared countermeasures system and Common infrared Countermeasures (circm), as well as Threat Nullification Defensive Resource (ThNDR) systems

        Quote: BoA KAA
        IR traps leading away from the infrared seeker


        the last generation of the IR seeker is guided along the contour of the target, traps them in the drum.
        1. Wildfox
          Wildfox 16 December 2017 19: 00 New
          +3
          thanks for the info hi
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 16 December 2017 21: 29 New
          +3
          Quote: opus
          opus Today, 18: 03 ↑

          Thank you for the professional story! good
          Glad I pushed you to speak out on the merits of the problem ..drinks
          .I even looked a little beyond the horizon of my ignorance in this matter. yes
          1. opus
            opus 17 December 2017 02: 32 New
            +2
            Quote: BoA KAA
            Glad I pushed you to speak out on the substance of the problem.

            wassat
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 17 December 2017 14: 51 New
              +2
              Quote: opus


              If THIS is yours, dear, then I humanly, with all my heart, envy you and enjoy THIS happiness !!!
  5. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 16 December 2017 12: 37 New
    0
    Now we are waiting for the Vikings to pay a return visit to us ...
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 16 December 2017 18: 13 New
      +6
      It's too early. I did not finish the flying saucer.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 16 December 2017 20: 02 New
        +3
        Quote: sabakina
        I did not finish the flying saucer.

        How long are you messing around !!! am
        I already have a two-phase hadron flamethrower ready for it and synchrotron bombs have been tested and put into production long ago, and the platform for it means it’s late ... "under the Christmas tree" is the deadline! I said that three legs for a plate are normal, and you --- "... four, four ...". wassat
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 16 December 2017 12: 37 New
    +3
    Yes, if ours spent so much on the development of the aircraft ... laughing
    Fortunately, the price does not provide combat characteristics ...
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 16 December 2017 12: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Yes, if ours spent so much on the development of the aircraft ...

      You can "spend" an unlimited amount of dough. The main thing is who has, after all the cuts, real R&D, production, testing ... etc. real money work will remain.
  7. Hariton laptev
    Hariton laptev 16 December 2017 12: 37 New
    +3
    All is not gold that glitters
  8. Herculesic
    Herculesic 16 December 2017 12: 37 New
    +6
    They would have shown it to the Chinese - then they will go a long way to where the stuffing of the plane disappeared so quickly, and what kind of a heap of metal is mixed with plastic lying on the runway ??? recourse
    1. poquello
      poquello 16 December 2017 13: 25 New
      +4
      Quote: Herkulesich
      They would have shown it to the Chinese - then they will go a long way to where the stuffing of the plane disappeared so quickly, and what kind of a heap of metal is mixed with plastic lying on the runway ??? recourse

      if you show the Chinese - the next day they will start selling Fyn35
  9. mih_sergeev92
    mih_sergeev92 16 December 2017 12: 43 New
    +4
    Indeed, we still have 5th generation fighters on combat duty. But in order to scare NATO pilots, 4 ++ is still enough, and before real air battles, we hope that it does not reach.
  10. Simon
    Simon 16 December 2017 12: 51 New
    +1
    Quote: Komsomol
    A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

    Nothing, ours will learn how to shoot down Americans negative
  11. Simon
    Simon 16 December 2017 12: 54 New
    +2
    Quote: mih_sergeev92
    Indeed, we still have 5th generation fighters on combat duty. But in order to scare NATO pilots, 4 ++ is still enough, and before real air battles, we hope that it does not reach.

    I think it won’t! We already have the T-50 on its way, undergoing tests. tongue
  12. Simon
    Simon 16 December 2017 13: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: Sergey53
    Showed? So what's next? Pray for him?

    Well no! It’s just that our airplane’s silhouette will be remembered so that they can be recognized in the sky and dumped from there! laughing
  13. Fitter65
    Fitter65 16 December 2017 13: 09 New
    +1
    F-35 - a family of stealth fifth-generation multi-functional aircraft,

    The only moment I'm very interested in is there a radar on this plane? If it is, then it should stand under the radiolucent cone (cap, cover), well, if you think logically, then this cone-cap-paint should not reflect radio waves, well, then just those signals that the antenna system should receive will be reflected from this cone-cap- cap, the meaning I think is understandable. If you have your own radar, of any type, in the front hemisphere it will "glow" in any way.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 16 December 2017 13: 18 New
      +4
      No, he has no radar. There is an old Zenith camera. Everything takes a shot, the infection, until the film runs out ... smile
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 16 December 2017 16: 48 New
        +5
        Quote: voyaka uh
        No, he has no radar. There is an old Zenith camera. Everything takes a shot, the infection, until the film runs out ... smile

        And do you know what is the area of ​​the reflecting surface of the ZENIT camera? Yes, and even the levers for changing the aperture and focus, they also give their effect in the reflection of the wave. It would be better to put a Chinese digital soap box, and there are much less problems with spare parts, and with the film you don’t need to steal during the development, and it would be cheaper. Now they say, knowledgeable people, ZENIT is not worth a lot of money. And given that its mass production has been withdrawn, then look for spare parts for flea markets ... Well, then laugh at any Font S-75. Are we really looking at things? Is there a plane? Is it. Is it flying? Is it flying. Is there a problem? Yes, it is MANDATORY. Are they solved? Of course, that's why everything is fine with us Su-35, you have F-35.
        Quote: voyaka uh
        No, he has no radar

        I can tell you where it’s not expensive to get. Opposite the city of Blagoveshchensk, it’s a little west of the Jewish Autonomous Region, there is the Chinese city of Heihe (it’s not written like that in Chinese), everything from ZENIT cameras to F-35 radars is there.
      2. opus
        opus 16 December 2017 18: 12 New
        +5
        Quote: voyaka uh
        There is an old Zenith camera. Everything fotka, infection until the film runs out

        I wouldn’t refuse such an “old” camera


        1. chidoryan
          chidoryan 17 December 2017 13: 13 New
          0
          briefly - what is going on here?
  14. Fighter
    Fighter 16 December 2017 13: 09 New
    +8
    I read comments and laughter parses. Do you really think that mattresses are the stupidest of all and make under-planes? Wake up, we are 10-15 years behind them in electronics. The fact that the Su-35 can now, ovskie aircraft stepped in the late 90s, early 2000s.
    1. poquello
      poquello 16 December 2017 13: 30 New
      +7
      Quote: Fighter
      I read comments and laughter parses. Do you really think that mattresses are the stupidest of all and make under-planes? Wake up, we are 10-15 years behind them in electronics. The fact that the Su-35 can now, ovskie aircraft stepped in the late 90s, early 2000s.

      Naturally, here’s how they’ll write,
    2. Fitter65
      Fitter65 16 December 2017 16: 52 New
      +5
      Quote: Fighter
      Wake up, we are 10-15 years behind them in electronics.

      On an elementary basis, without comment. But about the rest ...
  15. groks
    groks 16 December 2017 13: 15 New
    +6
    This plane is already there. In the series. With all the glitches, but in a series. Ours is still being tested with intermediate engines. It is clearly seen that in many ways he is a stealth, which is what the bet is. Ours with a focus on high maneuverability.
    So here. while ours will finish, the Americans will do 36 or 37. Taking into account the experience that they are already getting. With the money from vtyuhivaniya 35, everyone (who is not very asked). If they will finish it at all, otherwise they can freeze with “hold on” and “conversion”. There will be articles like "why the Russian Federation need new fighters, because we are not going to attack anyone" and "we have 100500 Su-27s and we need to modernize them."
    1. Fighter
      Fighter 16 December 2017 13: 22 New
      0
      I totally agree.
    2. sabakina
      sabakina 16 December 2017 18: 25 New
      +5
      Quote: groks
      So here. while ours will finish, the Americans will do 36 or 37. Taking into account the experience that they are already getting.

      1. groks
        groks 16 December 2017 19: 57 New
        +1
        Is this an argument? Mighty.
  16. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 16 December 2017 13: 16 New
    +8
    Why hide them already? Soon it will become the most common military aircraft in the world.
    It’s impossible to hide.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 16 December 2017 18: 28 New
      +4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Why hide them already? Soon it will become the most common military aircraft in the world.

      In the form of scrap metal? It is possible, quite ...
  17. Altona
    Altona 16 December 2017 13: 35 New
    +4
    So that pseudo-specialists and couch experts would not squeak now, this freak was born from the Yak-141, so he does not contain any critical secrets for Russian specialists.
    1. groks
      groks 16 December 2017 20: 00 New
      +3
      Debatable. All modern tanks have come from Christie, so is any tank a copy of it?
  18. Altona
    Altona 16 December 2017 13: 37 New
    +6
    Quote: Fighter
    Wake up, we are 10-15 years behind them in electronics. The fact that the Su-35 can now, ovskie aircraft stepped in the late 90s, early 2000s.

    ------------------------------
    What kind of electronics? For smartphones or for aviation and space?
    1. Fighter
      Fighter 16 December 2017 13: 42 New
      +3
      All over. RLPK, OLSy, STR, ESER ... etc. etc. If you are told something by the abbreviations. And also according to the algorithms of their work. I'm not talking about the simplest signatures for open source software ...
  19. Altona
    Altona 16 December 2017 13: 43 New
    +5
    Quote: groks
    so here. while ours will finish, the Americans will do 36 or 37. Taking into account the experience that they are already getting. With the money from vtyuhivaniya 35, everyone (who is not very asked). If they will finish it at all, otherwise they can freeze with “hold on” and “conversion”. There will be articles like "why the Russian Federation need new fighters, because we are not going to attack anyone" and "we have 100500 Su-27s and we need to modernize them."

    ---------------------------------
    I am surprised by such commentators. Explain in whose garden you throw a stone? In engineering, oligarchic or state? Engineers in Russia with normal funding can create an imperial starship now. With lasers, railguns and other garbage that you consider unattainable for 10-15 years. The state and oligarchs are another matter. The war in Syria was for the interests of Gazprom, so the defense industry also funded. If there are no interests of Gazprom, then there will be nothing. That's all.
    1. Fighter
      Fighter 16 December 2017 13: 48 New
      +2
      You yourself answered in whose garden these comments. Given that even the Indians in the Su-30s fly with normal signatures, but our nichromes cannot be identified ... It all comes down to the skill of the pilots, and the potential of the technology is used by 20 percent ...
    2. sabakina
      sabakina 16 December 2017 18: 30 New
      +5
      This fitger does not throw stones, but pours water! Mud...
    3. groks
      groks 16 December 2017 20: 12 New
      +2
      Explain in whose garden you throw a stone?

      He asked himself, he answered ....
      I can only add that with the current system, not at all technical parameters matter. And the opportunity to sell with a good fat. In this regard, the F-35 is simply a masterpiece!
      Engineers? Well, actually, there are not very many of them left. Normal. And no one will set the task for them to create something that is not profitable. And even without a fundamental, without the production of components, engineers simply quietly degrade.
      Mud..

      Is this an argument? Or is it PMS in TP?
  20. Popovich
    Popovich 16 December 2017 13: 46 New
    +2
    it’s better to look like that ...
  21. Altona
    Altona 16 December 2017 13: 46 New
    +2
    Quote: Fighter
    All over. RLPK, OLSy, STR, ESER ... etc. etc. If you are told something by the abbreviations. And also according to the algorithms of their work. I'm not talking about the simplest signatures for open source software ...

    -----------------------------------
    When to crawl in a cemetery? Start now?
    1. Fighter
      Fighter 16 December 2017 13: 55 New
      +2
      Not. You don’t need to be at the cemetery))) You just need to be a little more objective))) The 35th is Our BEST plane, I'm in love with it. But its potential, due to lack of funding and artificial delays with tests (as well as with the T-50), is revealed only by 15-20%. The hardware was a little crowded, but there were no programs for it. It’s like hooking a device to a computer, but don’t put firewood. So the equipment flies dead weight.
    2. groks
      groks 16 December 2017 20: 18 New
      +1
      Pancake. Do not crawl, but begin to work. First of all, our government should begin to work. In this their engineers will not replace in any way. What - do not want? Then you can start crawling now.
  22. Altona
    Altona 16 December 2017 13: 53 New
    +8
    Quote: Fighter
    It all comes down to the skill of the pilots, and the potential of the technology is used by 20 percent ...

    ------------------------------
    They give a Russian engineer 20% of what is needed, but they require cosmic results, and he reaches 90% of the bourgeois. Give him 100% of the bourgeois and the world will die under the iron heel of the Russian genius.
  23. gurzuf
    gurzuf 16 December 2017 13: 57 New
    +1
    Ha! Hitler also allowed (and even sold) to inspect his planes before the attack. Not scary!
  24. rocket757
    rocket757 16 December 2017 14: 12 New
    +3
    Try on nozzles, we can and interestingly, but more than a virtual confrontation should not be expected.
    Big opponents start a big war ???? It's unlikely.
    In fact, now it’s not individual planes (groups) that are opposing each other, but entire control systems and battle organization! skirmishes nose to nose are just an episode of confrontation. A spectacular, tragic, final episode.
    1. groks
      groks 16 December 2017 20: 20 New
      +2
      Why? For example, our traditionally indulge in Indians, those once again cling to Pakistan.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 16 December 2017 22: 09 New
        +4
        Neither of them has a full-fledged SYSTEM ... it is not enough to have a good weapon, it must be integrated into the system.
        The system is a complex mechanism, everything included in it should clearly work as a whole.
        What, Hindus or Pakistanis can do, have?
        So if they do not disperse before the global conflict, there will be small-town disassembly. Not a single weapon that was designed for the system, will not show its full potential.
        And then there will be "slanting" ratings of very good weapons.
        So global players do not risk anything by selling modern weapons to "left" countries.
        1. groks
          groks 17 December 2017 09: 57 New
          +1
          Those. with us, even without an airplane, is there a system for it already?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 17 December 2017 16: 08 New
            +3
            I will not speak harshly, just suppose that in the organization of troops (military branches) .... you understand weakly.
            The system of defense and airspace protection is being restored (after 90's and Serdyukov). Much has been done and will be done. The new aircraft will simply be “entered” into the system (charters, methods, and other organizational and technological documents) according to its technical specifications and the list of tasks that it can successfully perform. Where and why, there are many hypotheses, statements, OPINIONS expressed .. I will not, until I am in the know how it flies saw, but it's just a test.
            This is always, everywhere !. If the new technology has the potential more than the existing system can use, the system is simply upgraded.
            When the moment comes that the potential of the new technology exceeds the potential of the system SIGNIFICANTLY or BASICALLY, the system is changed ... it was so, it will be so!
            The question is: Are new aircraft superior in principle to those on which the current system was built? NO, the system will work, add new equipment and may be slightly upgraded!
            1. groks
              groks 17 December 2017 18: 21 New
              0
              There are no 57 in the series, the engines are not ready yet, 35 in the series. Based on the written nonsense, then the "system" under 35 is more ready than under 57, which can still easily change the parameters.
              35 is sold, while there will be pre-production sample 57, it may turn out that there is no one to sell it. Money to launch the series, respectively, also nowhere to take. It will be like with the Coalition, Armata, etc.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 17 December 2017 18: 55 New
                +3
                Sprinkle ash on your head and learn to read / understand what is written.
                The system existed BEFORE the appearance of these aircraft, they are just new "cogs" that can strengthen the existing mechanism and will not fundamentally change it.
                Nobody, for now, fundamentally changes the existing systems.
                The system existed before the appearance of these aircraft, will exist with them or without them. Everything is logical, it should be so.
                However, you can not read the "nonsense", soar online or where else.
                1. groks
                  groks 17 December 2017 20: 27 New
                  0
                  Let’s go on the other side. The existing system does not imply a quick rearmament of the Air Force. Judging by the latest events, it does not mean at all. The existing system is strictly focused on making a profit. Preferably in currency. Is there any doubt about this?
                  If there is - you are an elf from a fairy tale.
                  And this system, completely on the drum, all the other systems. There will be an order - there will be airplanes. There will be no order from our army. Because "hold on" and the "conversion" with pans has already been announced. This is officially said by two senior government officials. The rest are being prepared.
                  As a result of the operation of this system, our army was promised the Su-35, almost no less than it was intended for export. Despite the fact that the Su-35 was not made from scratch.
                  By the time 57 is ready, everyone will be provided with F-35s, some need it for prestige, but some are not asked. Therefore, no one will simply have any money left to buy something else. Run in a series of 57, with our meager military budget, it makes no sense. If there are no external orders.
                  Therefore, the F-35 has already won.
                  Nehru was the collapse of the defense industry.
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 17 December 2017 21: 23 New
                    +3
                    The reasoning is sound, no one has canceled commercial interest ... there are examples when the absence of outward interest (orders) "kills" the production of interesting, promising technology, capitalism however.
                    At the expense of our authorities and other ban ... it’s not for me, otherwise I’ll go to folklore and be banned again.
                    I am only for the country and defense.
                    Our concept is different, military doctrine, i.e. Much attention is paid to protection systems in all directions. One thing is visible here, the strike forces in various branches of the armed forces are much weaker than the defense component.
                    I don’t really know how 57 will fit into this system ... unless they make it a rule to help all sorts of different allies !!!
                    Or they do it so that it is (it is also necessary however), or they work out the technologies - this also happens. I understand Mig 31, its concept, its place in the system ... they will do a similar, modern identity too.
                    Likely the former specifics of the air defense and missile defense service are "crushing" my judgments. Combined arms aviation is not my field.
  25. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 16 December 2017 14: 19 New
    0
    In appearance, not bad
  26. fa2998
    fa2998 16 December 2017 15: 27 New
    +3
    Quote: Komsomol
    A worthy opponent of the SU-57 ...

    What to compare? The SU-57 is a heavy fighter. Its counterpart F-22.35 we have nothing to compare. Well, while we are developing tests slowly, while they are setting up production, the Americans and 35 will finish building, as F-22 is. And they will roll out a new plane. request hi
    1. Fighter
      Fighter 16 December 2017 16: 46 New
      +3
      The most interesting thing is that when conversations begin, essentially all the cheers-commentators get lost somewhere ... Ready to throw all the hats ... And the facts are "0" ...
  27. Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 16 December 2017 16: 42 New
    0
    You’re getting smaller, gentlemen ... Even by such an information guide we managed to get a shit. ..
    1. Fighter
      Fighter 16 December 2017 16: 54 New
      +2
      This is not an informer, this is a knock on our door, which, unfortunately, we have nothing to answer ... They cover the latest technology from all sides ..
  28. gig334
    gig334 16 December 2017 16: 56 New
    +3
    The F-35 aircraft is not new, it is new for Norway, because they have recently been purchased from the United States. The authors of the article, learn to correctly formulate your thoughts, express them. F-35 is a very bad aircraft, which in many respects is inferior to 4 generation aircraft. The aircraft is not intended for air combat, it’s good to bomb only the Papuans, but for 4th generation fighters this is forage.
    1. Fighter
      Fighter 16 December 2017 17: 05 New
      +3
      Maybe you still develop recommendations and tactics for dealing with this aircraft?!?! From the couch it is very easy to say that the aircraft is humus ... Never underestimate the enemy .... Moreover, there are a lot of these peaks ...
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 16 December 2017 18: 36 New
        +5
        Fighter, those plan how to get to the cemetery to draw?
        1. groks
          groks 16 December 2017 20: 24 New
          +2
          Tied with trollism. There is not a single informative message in the whole topic.
    2. Fighter
      Fighter 16 December 2017 17: 06 New
      +1
      What is it bad specifically? And what is Our 35th superior to?
      1. gig334
        gig334 16 December 2017 17: 33 New
        +6
        In close combat, the Su-35S with its supernatural ability to fly at minimum speeds and at the same time sharply accelerate to supersonic speeds, turns into a hunter. The maximum speed of the aircraft is 2,5M, the flight range is 3600 km, in the configuration of an air combat fighter can carry 12 Vympel medium-range missiles (probably referring to the UR R-77 of various modifications). The F-35 fighter can carry only a handful of missiles, the F-35’s flight range is only 2222 km, and its maximum speed of 1,6 M, it seems, only speaks of the desire “to die soon.” In addition, the Su-35c has new radars, no one really knows anything about them, there are Khibiny, which jam the enemy radar. You are a recent example with f-22 and su25, when for the F-22, unexpectedly, the SU-35 fell down from above. Simply put, the American on f-22 did not see on the Su-35 radars, so he flew away only when he saw it already on his tail visually. Of the whole story, it was the most interesting thing that the US did not see the Su-35. That is precisely what shocked them. Agree, if an American on his radar saw the Su-35 before, he would not wait for him and would leave immediately. But it's not about f 22, but F-35. So, the F-35 is the most unsuccessful aircraft in the United States, tell me at least one characteristic other than the propiarina invisibility, which is superior to the characteristics of the 4th generation aircraft? And yet, any aircraft emits a temperature that comes not only from the nozzles, but also from the body, which is heated due to friction with the atmosphere, which also raises the temperature of the aircraft body. This temperature is recorded by radars at large distances, so American planes are invisible only on paper and words, in reality, our radars see them well.
        1. Rushnairfors
          Rushnairfors 16 December 2017 19: 14 New
          +2
          Gig334 what side do you feel about aviation, if not secret?
        2. groks
          groks 16 December 2017 20: 31 New
          +2
          / Radiates the temperature, which is fixed radar /. In the anal!
        3. Vadim237
          Vadim237 16 December 2017 21: 28 New
          0
          “Tell me at least one characteristic, except for propiarina invisibility, which exceeds the characteristics of aircraft of the 4th generation” - FREO in the F 35 is the most powerful in the world.
          1. gig334
            gig334 17 December 2017 04: 43 New
            +1
            What is avionics? Tell this to the f-22 pilot who missed the SU-35.
            1. Rushnairfors
              Rushnairfors 17 December 2017 08: 47 New
              +4
              Are you sure you missed it? He had a task, to interfere with the attack aircraft, he interfered. Drying came, rolled off, but that does not mean that he put in his pants or he gape and missed su35. The Americans have the whole sky there in drones, the AWACS plane in Iraq is constantly on duty. And do you really think that the Americans will send their plane to spoil the Russian Air Force without realizing that 99% of it will be intercepted by ours? Regarding f35 and 4th generation, absolutely all of my classmates (ABVAUL issue 20 ...) consider him one of the most dangerous opponents, and precisely because of his avionics, and more specifically the capabilities of his radar and weapons. They do not consider close combat, there even our old su27 devotes any 5th generation. The question is who will allow this BVB?
              1. Fighter
                Fighter 17 December 2017 10: 16 New
                0
                Rashenairfors, who was you as a student? Except Vorotyn?
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 17 December 2017 10: 31 New
              0
              I'm talking about "Thomas," he told me about "Erema"
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. mydanik
    mydanik 16 December 2017 20: 04 New
    0
    It is foolish to compare Maybach with Kalina lol
  31. Vasya Vasiliev
    Vasya Vasiliev 16 December 2017 21: 23 New
    0
    .....- A freak! DO NOT READ DRY AND MIG!
  32. Dart
    Dart 16 December 2017 21: 34 New
    +3
    Quote: Fighter
    simplest signatures

    Dear! Explain how the "signatures" are made, according to your wassat ?! What is such a maneuver that you attributed this physical concept to material rea ???
    This is from the category of auto exhaust gases attributed to the auto ignition system. And that, still, applies to the car.
    Not with your knowledge to write derogatory comments about our military aircraft industry.
    Yes, each item can have a signature. Moreover, a different one. But to produce it as a device and to fake it, while no one has learned in the world, plainly, It’s true, note.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 16 December 2017 22: 25 New
      +5
      It will be fun to look at the Maybahs which even a viburnum, loaded with a brick, for example, drove into the pit ... and will it stay from that Maybach? Are they naive, they think that in real life the viburnum will humbly huddle to the side of the road and the Maybah proudly steer in the middle
      There is no clue for many that there is a real battle. Yes, and look carefully, the overseas miracle does not have radical advantages over our aircraft ... what can I say, about the advantages against the developed air defense system. It is very doubtful, because no one will risk checking.
  33. Altona
    Altona 16 December 2017 22: 01 New
    +4
    Quote: groks
    Engineers? Well, actually, there are not very many of them left. Normal. And no one will set the task for them to create something that is not profitable. And even without a fundamental, without the production of components, engineers simply quietly degrade.

    -----------------------------
    This is basically a baseless statement. There are quite normal and thinking guys. And there are still people who can educate someone and something. Degradation therefore occurs because management is degrading and resources are being spent on all kinds of tsatskas in the form of yachts, on investments in American bonds, and not on what is needed. Stalin generally got ordinary peasants and he found ways to create engineers and scientists from them and workers. I will not praise their own people, but not so he is missing. And you probably the next phrase has already outlined the "genetic scum"?
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 16 December 2017 22: 46 New
      +4
      Sofa "experts" what to expect from them?
      In real production, everything has been very understandable for a long time - those that are "time to blame" and other dunce have long been in deep ff, and those who are really ready \ want to work, grow, study and still grow, they do things ... we "oldies" and there is almost nothing to teach them, we just help not to make the classic mistakes that are everywhere and always.
      It’s far from idyll, but the pessimism of the past is already gone!
    2. groks
      groks 17 December 2017 09: 50 New
      +1
      Altona
      The mass of slogans. And what do these slogans change? Those peasants had an incentive to drastically change their position in society. Kisunko forged the documents.
      Now we have young engineers who receive much less than that cleaning lady in Gazprom. They are working on what they have been instructed. And they are entrusted with what is now needed and profitable. The lack of continuity ensured us the collapse of the 90s, which, however, did not stop further. And now it’s coming. If we destroyed VZR named after Kalinin and Machine Tool, then where should the developers of capacitors, presses and machine tools come from? How many graduates of technical universities work in their specialty? Are they more successful than their classmates who went into commerce? Yes figs there.
      The last two sentences - because there is nothing to say? And I want to blame for something. So you can come up with.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 17 December 2017 16: 27 New
        +5
        This is the squeak of a loser, the one who "did not fall down" and here no one does!
        I have a friend, a constant adversary in disputes, for a liberal of the highest standard! And he “dumped” him, worked over the hill, and not by himself, but by INVITATION !!! and here he worked in a serious MONETARY position! a good specialist ... just did not breathe him here, the air of "Mordor"!
        And that in the end ... I returned with nothing, I lost my position here, but at least I found a decent job because the specialist (was) people remember. He lost only the stream / purpose of life, with all the ensuing consequences .... he has one joy now, his son entered Baumanka and both are very proud of this !!!!
        So guys write, “bring down”, and we need to build a country and fight with all sorts of reptiles!
  34. Des10
    Des10 16 December 2017 22: 53 New
    0
    How many SU-57 and how many F-35 - from here and start to "expert", otherwise it’s ridiculous.
    1. gig334
      gig334 17 December 2017 00: 16 New
      +4
      Su-57 is still 10 copies, but even if there would be 100. There is no point in comparing with the Su-57 F-35. The F-35 is inferior in many respects to the 4th generation aircraft as described above. Yes, and many experts, not couches, and those who are directly connected with F-35 aviation do not consider fifth-generation aircraft.
  35. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 17 December 2017 07: 14 New
    0
    Looks like a pregnant cow.
    1. iouris
      iouris 17 December 2017 12: 48 New
      0
      An American plane that looks bad is very efficient.
  36. serenja
    serenja 17 December 2017 08: 22 New
    0
    opus,
    With a hook ... And where is the vertical take-off / landing promised?
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. chidoryan
    chidoryan 17 December 2017 13: 09 New
    +1
    Regarding comparisons of electronic warfare systems in f-35 and our innovations ... I am not a specialist in high technology, but if you try to turn on the logic, it is rather strange to believe that the Americans are inferior to us in electronic warfare systems, given the incredible leap in the IT sphere they have the latest years, the latest developments in electronics and machine learning, unmanned fleet of autonomous drones, etc. The only thing I can assume is that in recent years they have been aiming at wars with the Papuans and have not pressed in the direction of electronic warfare, although above Opus made it perfectly clear that they clearly are not standing still.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 17 December 2017 14: 16 New
      +1
      Every third F-18 on their aircraft carriers is a jammer.
      The F-35 jamming is built into the radar.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 17 December 2017 16: 45 New
        +3
        All of these are jamming systems, at Papuans, from truncated, old, solitary means of attack and defense. A strong adversary with full, modern air defense, electronic warfare will send such an answer that the attacker will lose the concept of where is the top, where is the bottom !!!
        That's how it all works!
        Therefore, the Yankees threw themselves into "invisibility", at least some chance to defeat the enemy. But then again, IF YOU DO NOT SEE ???
    2. ghby
      ghby 17 December 2017 15: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: chidoryan
      I’m not a specialist in high technology, but if you try to turn on the logic, it’s rather strange to believe that the Americans are inferior to us in electronic warfare systems, given the incredible leap in the IT sphere in recent years, the latest developments in electronics and machine learning, an unmanned fleet of autonomous drones and td

      EW is mainly physics and algorithms. IT and electronics are a little different.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 17 December 2017 19: 27 New
        +2
        That's right, physics. A striking example of this is LIGHTNING. "Dumb", a powerful force from which you have to defend by "dumb", purely in physics !!! Expensive and not always effective!
        Let’s take a drone, this is work for IT specialists - codes, algorithms, and more !!! and banging can be done differently in a purely dull and advanced way. No one has come up with absolute protection yet! Sho can do one, then break another! So the battle of minds is going on, but one should not forget about physics.
        We can never know who is ahead, who is behind, we will hope that we are in the forefront.
  39. Evil 55
    Evil 55 17 December 2017 15: 58 New
    +2
    So what? We looked, laughed, wept and peeed under his wheel ..
  40. Terenin
    Terenin 17 December 2017 17: 41 New
    +6
    Well done, well done, well, congratulations. If we don’t have this, if necessary, we’ll “work” with you “what God sent”, we won’t tremble and I’m sure that if necessary our specialists will do no worse, do not “delay”. We definitely won’t dance to your democratic tune, as in the 90s.
  41. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 18 December 2017 10: 09 New
    +2
    The F-35 is not a rival to our Su-57, only the F-22 Raptor can compete and then at a long distance ...
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 18 December 2017 10: 30 New
      +3
      We will not have illusions. Where the Yankees organize a complete combat control system (reconnaissance, target designation, guidance, etc.), their aircraft are VERY DANGEROUS. Opportunities in this they have more !!!
      Where they are now messing up this is not or in a very truncated form. “Butting” with them is within our power, but at least parity is needed. In this case, the level of training of pilots and performance characteristics of the equipment itself is crucial.
      They approach our borders with caution, and even they will not risk crossing it in any way ... the prospect is already somberly gloomy for them.
      Those. for the defense of its territory it is necessary to develop further, no matter what !!!
      Outside of it, everything is very complicated and not unambiguous, but it’s better not to bring it to conflicts because the consequences can become gloomy for ALL !!!