Military Review

Comparative test data for the “Soldier of the Future” equipment

77
The newspaper "Red Star" has published material on the comparative tests of automatic machines caliber 5,45 mm AK-12 and AEK-971, as well as caliber 7,62 mm AK-15 and AEK-973.


It is noted that the machines were compared with the standard samples and among themselves to develop recommendations for adopting the best type of product into service. The work was conducted in three control groups: paratroopers, marines, motorized riflemen.

Comparative test data for the “Soldier of the Future” equipment


The results showed that the effectiveness of the AEK-971 machine gun relative to the AK-12 machine gun is higher in 1,1 times at a distance of up to 300 meters, but so much lower at long distances. At the same time, the effectiveness of firing relative to the standard AK-74М increases two-fold for AK-12 and AK-15, and for AEK-971 it increases by 2,3.

In August 2016 of the year, it was reported that the trial military operation of the “soldier of the future” outfit for Russian equipment would end in November-December of 2016, after which one of them would be included in the “Warrior”. According to the results of the operation, they were going to choose a machine gun.

However, as you can see, the tests are still ongoing.

At the same time, even earlier, the Defense Ministry expressed discontent with both AK-12 and AEK-971, primarily because of their cost.
Photos used:
yandex.ru/images
77 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. 210ox
    210ox 27 November 2017 18: 11
    18
    Yes, you will finally be resolved. Which year is one and the same. Well, since there are no obvious advantages, neither one has to stop at AK ..
    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 27 November 2017 18: 21
      27
      Hello Dima! hi How much can you lick this topic? negative It seems they said that AEK will go to specialists, and the AK-12 will be combined arms. It’s a Solomon solution. How much can you pull a cat for Faberge? am
      1. 210ox
        210ox 27 November 2017 18: 23
        +5
        Good evening Pash! That's right. And there’s nothing to wrinkle breasts. How much is all this already? About ten years this canoe lasts
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        Hello Dima! hi How much can you lick this topic? negative It seems they said that AEK will go to specialists, and the AK-12 will be combined arms. It’s a Solomon solution. How much can you pull a cat for Faberge? am
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 27 November 2017 18: 27
          +9
          Quote: 210ox
          How long is all this? Ten years this canoe lasts

          If we take into account the age of AEK-971, then it will be an order of magnitude larger: next year it will turn 40 (!!!) years old. yes
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 27 November 2017 19: 38
            +6
            Quote: bouncyhunter
            Quote: 210ox
            How long is all this? Ten years this canoe lasts

            If we take into account the age of AEK-971, then it will be an order of magnitude larger: next year it will turn 40 (!!!) years old. yes

            And Kalash is more than 70 years old, the same AK-12 is not a novelty, but a deep modernization
            1. bouncyhunter
              bouncyhunter 27 November 2017 19: 47
              +4
              AEK-971 was originally designed as a weapon with balanced automation, unlike AK.
              1. sharp-lad
                sharp-lad 28 November 2017 00: 14
                +8
                Why argue that? It is said: The price does not like! It will be a little expensive! I wonder whose lip rolled out more? For those who want a spaceship at the price of a bicycle, or for those who want to sell a scooter at the price of an intergalactic station? laughing
                1. Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
                  Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich 28 November 2017 12: 14
                  +2
                  Surely all at the same time ...
                  And the little crook - “plushkin” in the role of the buyer, and the notorious bazaar aiserbon that has burst from the monopoly in the role of the seller:
              2. Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
                Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich 28 November 2017 02: 23
                +3
                Efficiency higher ... 1,1 times?!?
                Translated into Russian, this means that the efficiency is higher than EVERYTHING by ... 10% ???
                Mountain gave birth to MOUSE ?!
                Although something I don’t really believe in such test results ...
                So many praises sang to this Kovrovsky rail counterbalance over a trunk, and here such a bummer, with as a result: - (((
                Complicated designs for the sake of a ridiculous 10% ?!
                1. Glory1974
                  Glory1974 28 November 2017 11: 53
                  +3
                  Efficiency higher ... 1,1 times?!?

                  This is relative to AK-12 and AEK.
                  Concerning AK-74M, the efficiency is higher in 2 (AK-12) and 2,3 (AEK) times.
                  In my opinion a very good result.
                  1. Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
                    Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich 28 November 2017 12: 03
                    +1
                    And I’m just about the choice between NEW !!!
                    Between the Kovrov and Izhevsk samples.
                    It’s just they will NOT be chosen between the two: - (((
                    So they need to be compared, and NOT with 1000 times sucked on all sides by the AK-74M (from the 101st to the 105th)
                    By the way, the 107th Comrade Chekists (from Alpha) somehow praised it ...
                    And where is he ???
                    Therefore, it is hard to believe anything, so that the tarry people get too much money, make changes to the usual scheme for everyone and ..
                    And all for the sake of cp @ these 10% of the difference with the Izhevsk almost canonical model, although updated: - (((
                  2. DimerVladimer
                    DimerVladimer 28 November 2017 15: 30
                    +2
                    Quote: glory1974
                    Concerning AK-74M, the efficiency is higher in 2 (AK-12) and 2,3 (AEK) times.
                    In my opinion a very good result.


                    And how is the result achieved?
                    Let's say installing a collimator sight and the AK-74M would be nice - only it has no picatinny bars.
                    Nowhere is there any mention with which sights accuracy of 2 and 2,3 times higher is achieved.
                    And for an open sight at 300 m single, accuracy and AK-74M and AK-12 and AEK are approximately equally accurate.
                    Queues - yes balanced AEK more precisely definitely.
                    Somewhere here manufacturers distort the results for the press.
                    1. RF man
                      RF man 28 November 2017 17: 53
                      0
                      The article did not have a desire to read?
                      In addition, the controlled operation of the AK-74M submachine gun, carried out as part of the Design and Construction Workspace, was carried out. She showed that the small product has an increase in combat effectiveness compared to the base model. In terms of accuracy of firing, the AK-74M body kit exceeds the AK-74M by almost 1,3 times.
                    2. Glory1974
                      Glory1974 28 November 2017 19: 43
                      0
                      Let's say installing a collimator sight and the AK-74M would be nice - only it has no picatinny bars.

                      the collimator and the standard mount was attached well.
                      Somewhere here manufacturers distort the results for the press.

                      but here I agree. I would like to read a review in more detail.
      2. vovanpain
        vovanpain 27 November 2017 18: 26
        +3
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        How much can you pull a cat for Faberge?

        Hello Bratko drinks hi Here for these Faberge and pull
        At the same time, even earlier, the Defense Ministry expressed discontent with both AK-12 and AEK-971, primarily because of their cost.
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 27 November 2017 18: 29
          +3
          And hello to you, brother! hi drinks drinks drinks
          I’m already tired of breaking spears on this topic, it seems that bureaucrats from the Moscow Region will pay for these machines from their own pockets. negative
    2. Genry
      Genry 27 November 2017 18: 47
      +8
      AK and AEK are outdated due to poor support for 'suspensions'. We need a weapon with a non-separable upper part of the receiver and barrel, so that the aiming settings do not go astray. Type Israeli "Tavor" or Chukavin rifle (microwave).
      1. RF man
        RF man 28 November 2017 20: 48
        0
        Quote: Genry
        AK and AEK are outdated due to poor support for 'suspensions'

        We lagged behind the whole planet - the French won a technical masterpiece for themselves, where our old AK-12 was before him -))
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 29 November 2017 21: 17
          +1
          The French lay under the Germans and adopted the NK. There are no French automatic machines
    3. Vovanya
      Vovanya 27 November 2017 19: 28
      +2
      Quote: 210ox
      Yes, you will finally be resolved. Which year is one and the same. Well, since there are no obvious advantages, neither one has to stop at AK ..


      I agree that the AK pistol grip is prettier ...
      1. DimerVladimer
        DimerVladimer 28 November 2017 15: 31
        0
        Quote: Vovanya
        I agree that the AK pistol grip is prettier ...


        Now any AK can be customized with an anatomical handle as well.
    4. maiman61
      maiman61 27 November 2017 19: 33
      +8
      It’s much better to see AEK, but some people want to push AK, because it’s not their children who die in battle.
    5. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 27 November 2017 20: 16
      +2
      Quote: 210ox
      Yes, you will finally be resolved. Which year is one and the same. Well, since there are no obvious advantages, neither one has to stop at AK ..

      The husband said, while the boy is gone, you will give birth ..... So we calve.
    6. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 28 November 2017 14: 52
      +1
      the special forces work at close distances here aek is in trouble, the rest will be given there and it can be beaten from 600 meters. Yes, some details from ak 74 will work, it is cheaper to modify it in series than everything from scratch.
      1. Genry
        Genry 29 November 2017 14: 30
        0
        What oak will translate cartridges from the machine, at ranges of more than 300m. Although, give him a sight with a good magnification and will be "one fool less."
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 29 November 2017 21: 20
          0
          M16 with selected trunks (from the general batch with better accuracy) with optics can be used at 500-600 m. You can also use the options of our machines (such as RPK)
          1. RF man
            RF man 30 November 2017 13: 43
            0
            Quote: Zaurbek
            M16 with selected trunks (from the general batch with better accuracy) with optics are also used on 500-600 m

            Do they seem to now even have a separate sample supplied? Type for "accurate shooters."
            If I’m not mistaken even a cartridge with increased accuracy.
  2. Nevsky_ZU
    Nevsky_ZU 27 November 2017 18: 12
    +2
    How long !!! Need a new army machine yesterday am
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 27 November 2017 18: 23
      +7
      Quote: Nevsky_ZU
      Need a new army machine yesterday

      Why is the old bad? In the sense of AK? Picantini plank can be done, but what else? request
      1. gladcu2
        gladcu2 27 November 2017 20: 23
        +3
        We checked and made sure that the AK platform, the most it ... For the army ...

        And AEK, you can fuse for civilians and collectors. Also will not be lost.

        You can stop at this, until the next check, to make sure again that AK for the army is still the same.
      2. user
        user 28 November 2017 07: 07
        0
        Why is the old bad? In the sense of AK? Picantini plank can be done, but what else?


        Yes, nothing more is offered, with efficiency 1,1 times higher. But you can imagine how much you can cut with a complete rearmament, you just get confused at the zeros.

        In this situation, you just need to announce a new competition and tighten the performance characteristics. We don’t lose anything much, the specialists themselves will weigh their trunks, and the rest will not even notice anything.
  3. Smoked
    Smoked 27 November 2017 18: 19
    +3
    But over the years, somehow it all the same has become for this competition.
  4. Alex 2016
    Alex 2016 27 November 2017 18: 24
    +6
    So it seems that AEK has already become A545 \ 762 for a long time, and it has already been decided which machine to whom and to whom they palm. And the photo shows almost those machines about which are discussed in the article (the first options). The AK-12 of the first sample is very different from the AK-12 of 2017, which in essence is a deep modernization / refinement of the AK-74, using materials developed by the AK 400 series, offered for arming elite special forces, such as the FSB Special Purpose Center (“Alpha” and “Pennant”) or the President’s Security Service. This sample is a further development of the so-called "hundredth" series of machine guns and is offered in versions for different cartridges. On the ph 400th.
  5. akm8226
    akm8226 27 November 2017 18: 31
    18
    Flocks about nothing. In order to judge the merits and demerits of each trunk, you must hold on to it yourself. And since we are all deprived of such an opportunity, especially with regard to AEK, each judgment will be biased. This time. Two - from the point of view of me, as an advanced user of AK and at the same time a design engineer, I must choose AK-15. Pure logic - training L / C is not necessary, because everyone already knows. Three - all equipment, technologies, workshops and personnel for the production of AK-15 are already in stock - this is VERY important! And finally, four - I do not know how AEK is reliable, but my barrel AKM8226 for the hellish amount of fire that I did with it, never - NEVER !!! - I did not fail! I can’t even tentatively say how many times I used it, but believe me - a lot. Based on the foregoing, I am definitely for the AK-15.
  6. senima56
    senima56 27 November 2017 18: 47
    +5
    It seems that the author of the article “heard a ringing ...” Which AK-12 ?! Already a long time ago they abandoned it and are testing the AK-14 (15)! In one, you can agree with the author - they still will not choose !!!
  7. Kathernik
    Kathernik 27 November 2017 18: 47
    +4
    Quote: akm8226
    Flocks about nothing. In order to judge the merits and demerits of each trunk, you must hold on to it yourself. And since we are all deprived of such an opportunity, especially with regard to AEK, each judgment will be biased. This time. Two - from the point of view of me, as an advanced user of AK and at the same time a design engineer, I must choose AK-15. Pure logic - training L / C is not necessary, because everyone already knows. Three - all equipment, technologies, workshops and personnel for the production of AK-15 are already in stock - this is VERY important! And finally, four - I do not know how AEK is reliable, but my barrel AKM8226 for the hellish amount of fire that I did with it, never - NEVER !!! - I did not fail! I can’t even tentatively say how many times I used it, but believe me - a lot. Based on the foregoing, I am definitely for the AK-15.

    - If only you wouldn’t work yourself - “No need to learn”, no new machines, etc.
  8. SASHA OLD
    SASHA OLD 27 November 2017 19: 00
    +1
    I thought that the decision had already been made ...
    AEK specialists, combined arms units - AK ...
    As far as I remember this has long been said ...
    And it’s like ...
  9. Yuriy71
    Yuriy71 27 November 2017 19: 10
    +1
    Everything is very simple - they will choose the one that will be cheaper in production and whose production has the same production base wider - this is Kalashnikov AK-12. Everything else is not important, and Degtyarev is much more complicated and expensive in production, and a lot more needs to be invested in the production base. Therefore, all these tests are for the people as the resonance is great. Everything has already been decided a hundred times and a long time ago!
  10. John22
    John22 27 November 2017 19: 23
    +6
    If you take the AK-15, then why all this bodyag for 6 years. For the sake of a sliding butt and Picatinny rails? The front sight was transferred to the gas outlet pipe by the same amount as the aiming block was moved - and they say that they increased the aiming line. Even the dumping of the store with one finger eliminated, and this is a change in just one detail. All the flaws remained.
  11. John22
    John22 27 November 2017 19: 25
    +3
    Then you need to rename the machine in the assault rifle. and prohibit firing bursts.
  12. steelmaker
    steelmaker 27 November 2017 19: 25
    0
    Both machines must be adopted! For one reason - so that specialists are not left without a salary.
  13. Wolka
    Wolka 27 November 2017 19: 36
    +1
    yet another provocation from the author, and from the fact that another controversy will unfold here, the decision to adopt a particular type of armament will not be accepted sooner, is it worth it to tear the throat and sprinkle with saliva upholding one’s unnecessary belief ...
  14. da Vinci
    da Vinci 27 November 2017 19: 45
    +4
    It is unfortunate that a lot of money and a lot of time (+ sickening PR) took many years to a new machine, everyone thought that "Wow!", But it turned out "EH" request . The result is a rattle. My idea is confirmed by the fact that this new AK12 manaGery even in the media stopped PR! repeat
  15. Tusv
    Tusv 27 November 2017 19: 47
    0
    So it is necessary to test simple mortal juzvery. For example, I have a classic AK, on ​​a chest target, with the first shot it leads down to the top five, the second two to the top ten. He shot twice, the indicators are the same.
    That is, equip the shooters with whatever is more convenient
  16. Sergey53
    Sergey53 27 November 2017 19: 49
    +6
    How can one manage to turn everything upside down in such a small article. A custom article can be seen from the factory producing AKs. 1. AK-12 was not taken at all by the military, but only AEK-971. BUT they asked to take for testing for the money of the plant. 2. Everywhere the emphasis was that the AK-12 is CHEAPER. And AEK-971 is more expensive. Even when they show pictures of AK machines, they show in a body kit, and AEK-971 without a body kit and the first years of production. And further. MO never made claims to the AK-12 at their cost.
    1. t7310
      t7310 27 November 2017 21: 12
      +2
      something like that

      as for me I would like all the same (aek) only bullpup

      1. t7310
        t7310 3 December 2017 13: 08
        0
        in bullpup you can of course and then redo it, but better immediately
  17. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 27 November 2017 20: 22
    +1
    The results showed that the fire efficiency of the AEK-971 assault rifle relative to the AK-12 assault rifle is 1,1 times higher at ranges up to 300 meters, but also lower at long distances

    How it is?
    1. Couchexpert
      Couchexpert 27 November 2017 20: 41
      +6
      This is very strange, of course, but it can be assumed that it is somehow connected with the pitch of the rifling.
      Yes, even 1,1 doesn’t work:
      At the same time, the effectiveness of firing relative to the standard AK-74M doubles in the AK-12 and AK-15, and 971 times in the AEK-2,3.

      And so let the efficiency from the old AK-74M be equal to X, then the fire efficiency of the AK-12/15 is 2X, and the AEK-971 is 2,3X. Then it turns out that the efficiency of AEK-971 is greater than the efficiency of AK-12/15 in 2,3 / 2 = 1,15 times.
      Journalism...
  18. Krasnyiy komissar
    Krasnyiy komissar 27 November 2017 20: 55
    +4
    What is the secret to this increase in efficiency? According to TTX, the new AK-12 is almost indistinguishable from the AK-74M, the ergonomics of the machine has improved, and it has become possible to mount optics on the receiver cover. Surely this all made weapons more effective by 2 times? I do not believe ! Managers again try to sell the old product in a new package, although it would be cheaper to upgrade the samples in stock. Kalash is certainly an excellent weapon, but the issuance of AK-12 for the latest achievement of weapons thought smacks of a grand dough cut between the KK and the officials of the Moscow Region. If AK and AEK turned out to be almost identical according to the test results, then it makes no sense to fence a garden with a balancer. Unfortunately, the weapons idea has not moved from the level of the 70s, which is regularly confirmed by unsuccessful attempts to replace the Soviet rifleman.
  19. DesToeR
    DesToeR 27 November 2017 21: 04
    +7
    Someone like that, but AEK even looks aesthetically better.


  20. bunta
    bunta 27 November 2017 21: 08
    +5
    http://www.redstar.ru/index.php/newspaper/item/35
    204-otsifrovannyj-ratnik

    Smoke the source, gentlemen.

    In particular, the arithmetic mean value of the results of the implementation of the norm No. 13 “Incomplete disassembly of weapons” with a standard automatic machine is 12,1 seconds, and with AK-74M “Body kit” - 47,5 seconds. When fulfilling norm No. 14 “Assembling weapons after incomplete disassembly,” the arithmetic average value of the results with standard weapons is 18,6 seconds, and with a prototype
    1 minute 24 seconds, that is, it takes 4,4 times more time to complete the standard.

    According to tactical training, a certain increase was obtained, which was expressed in a decrease in time to complete tasks. However, when landing (disembarking) in combat vehicles, the time spent increases by 2,3 times, and when fulfilling the standards for physical training, the new equipment impedes agility and reduces the range of grenade throwing by 3 – 7 meters. This is due to an increase in the total volume and weight of a serviceman in combat gear.

    1. RF man
      RF man 27 November 2017 23: 29
      +2
      Here is the right approach - to read the ORIGINAL of an article, rather than flood it over a small extract from it.
      Speech in the article "On the results of the trial operation of KBEV", NOT automatic machines.

      And also "the completion of the controlled operation of the upgraded 7,62 mm self-loading modernized Dragunov rifle (SVDM), 9 mm special modernized sniper rifle (VSSM), 12,7 mm large-caliber modernized sniper rifle (ASVKM)"

      And it would be nice if you want to search and read data on previous tests of systems with balanced automation - they might understand why ours doesn’t rush with it for 30-35 years.
  21. Holoy
    Holoy 27 November 2017 21: 56
    +2
    Just AK-12 Rogozin pushes through. And so this is yesterday, Kalashnikov did not come up with anything except ergonomics since 1946!
    1. Sergey53
      Sergey53 28 November 2017 16: 53
      0
      AK-12 moves the plant itself. He understands what profits are looming on the horizon. And he does it by any means.
  22. _Jack_
    _Jack_ 27 November 2017 22: 22
    +1
    For the equipment of the "soldier of the future", the tests of machine guns of the past continue
  23. like this
    like this 27 November 2017 22: 51
    0
    we have more than 300 with ak 74 could only begin the outposts, some kind of nonsense
    1. RF man
      RF man 28 November 2017 00: 05
      0
      I once read an old British study. So according to their data far 300 yards, their soldiers almost did not shoot. And it was also argued that in more than half of cases, the terrain itself virtually eliminates targeted shooting at long distances.
  24. da Vinci
    da Vinci 27 November 2017 23: 20
    +1
    But I like this unit
  25. bondxnumx
    bondxnumx 27 November 2017 23: 56
    +4
    Only an assault rifle superior to an order of magnitude AK can be put into service with the Army, but do they take dirt into account --- dust --- water resistance? And the reliability of the nodes? During the war, footage of the chronicle was shown in the Caucasus — a company of infantrymen was walking along the side of the road, and several armored personnel carriers rushed past them along the road (the weather was cold) and chunks of dirt flew out from under the treads of the cars and, of course, some of them fell on the fighters and weapons --- And if they are in a few seconds in battle? Which machine gun will shoot and which one will stall? War --- this is not shooting at a shooting range, WAR --- IT IS BLOOD and DIRT!
  26. Zomanus
    Zomanus 27 November 2017 23: 56
    +3
    Apparently there is no special difference in the machines, since they choose so long.
    Just for AK is well-established production,
    and for the production of AEK still need to build production.
    1. RF man
      RF man 28 November 2017 08: 47
      0
      Quote: Zomanus
      Apparently there is no special difference in the machines, since they choose so long.

      Yes, from the 70s they have been testing balanced automation in comparison with conventional schemes. And she was with Kalashnikov too. EVERY time the tests gave the SAME result - there is NO real (all within 1,1-1,2) increase in combat effectiveness compared to AK, while the design is more complicated and significantly more expensive.

      As a result, the Kalashnikov concern itself is now demonstrating balanced systems, but in civilian weapons.

      Quote: Zomanus
      and for the production of AEK still need to build production

      Under AEK, production has not gone anywhere. It was purchased in small batches by at least three ministries. How much is produced all - never met.
  27. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 28 November 2017 06: 47
    0
    I'm starting to think that the issue has grown from a technical to an economic one. If you choose AEK, then Kalashnikov’s sales abroad will fall, because the Russians themselves have refused him. To resolve this conflict, it is necessary to combine production and brands, and release AEK under the name AK-AEK.
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 28 November 2017 07: 24
      +4
      Quote: Jurkovs
      need to combine production and brands

      AEKAK?
    2. RF man
      RF man 28 November 2017 09: 00
      +2
      In the general sales of the Kalashniyov concern, the sale of machine guns abroad is minuscule.

      For some reason, none of those who so admire AEK ask a simple question:
      IF the sample REALLY gives a significant advantage in battle, WHERE is the interest in it from abroad? He shine on exhibitions for years and at least someone ordered a batch of 1000 pieces
      1. RF man
        RF man 28 November 2017 10: 17
        0
        By the way - AEK has been in operation in a number of special forces for 10-15 years
        If he is SO much better, then why would at least the Ministry of Justice completely transfer his special equipment to him? They don’t have to buy it in tens of thousands ... But they are in no hurry. ..
        1. Sergey53
          Sergey53 28 November 2017 16: 56
          0
          They are not in the PROCUREMENT program. Those. no money is allocated.
  28. Slon1978
    Slon1978 28 November 2017 09: 16
    +1
    "The results showed that the fire efficiency of the AEK-971 assault rifle relative to the AK-12 assault rifle is 1,1 times higher at a range of up to 300 meters." In my opinion, this is possible only in one case - the A545 gives an advantage in accuracy of 10% up to 300 meters (and 10% is not a little by the way!) Due to balanced automation, and then the accuracy drops due to what? Is the quality and interior decoration of the A545 barrel worse than the AK-12? In this case, it’s interesting what kind of barrel manufacturing technologies each company uses ...
    1. RF man
      RF man 28 November 2017 09: 51
      0
      What to guess? This is just an article in a newspaper where a report is simply voiced.
      The original is not about accuracy "The fire efficiency of the 6P67 assault rifle relative to the AK-12 assault rifle is 1,1 times higher at ranges up to 300 meters, and at large distances the AK-12 is 1,1 times higher than the 6P67 assault rifle
      In earlier trials, balanced automation also lost in some trials. Only superiority in accuracy was observed when shooting from unstable positions.
      If a mid-range shooter shoots even from short stops, at a moving growth target, or at a motionless thoracic target, it is unlikely that the accuracy of the queue will play the main role here. And even more so under fire and on the run.
      1. Slon1978
        Slon1978 28 November 2017 14: 22
        +2
        Shooting from unstable positions is the main type of shooting in real combat. And when the weapon does not twitch in the hands, then even a mid-range shooter will show results. The question of reducing the effectiveness of the A-545 fire after 300 meters to a level below the AK-12 is very interesting. It is known that in Chechnya, experienced shooters from the AK-74 with the GP-25 installed (due to the weight of the weapons) without any problems laid the average line in the target the size of a window with 300 meters, therefore, for example, the statement of Slava 1974 below that accuracy can harm when shooting at long distances does not make sense. Accuracy was sufficient to defeat growth targets at long distances, even with the AK-74M. The question is in comparing the A545 and AK-12 after 300 meters, why? The only thing where my idea works is the characteristics of the trunk. At A545, the barrel is 5 mm longer, while the bullet speed is 20 m / s lower, perhaps after 300 meters this difference is already more significant and gives a deterioration in flatness and, therefore, fire efficiency. But this is only a guess, which may well be wrong.
        1. DimerVladimer
          DimerVladimer 28 November 2017 16: 12
          +3
          Quote: Slon1978
          Shooting from unstable positions is the main type of shooting in real combat. And when the weapon does not twitch in the hands, then even a mid-range shooter will show results. The question of reducing the effectiveness of the A-545 fire after 300 meters to a level below the AK-12 is very interesting. It is known that in Chechnya, experienced shooters from the AK-74 with the GP-25 installed (due to the weight of the weapons) without any problems laid the average line in the target the size of a window with 300 meters, therefore, for example, the statement of Slava 1974 below that accuracy can harm when shooting at long distances does not make sense. Accuracy was sufficient to defeat growth targets at long distances, even with the AK-74M. The question is in comparing the A545 and AK-12 after 300 meters, why? The only thing where my idea works is the characteristics of the trunk. At A545, the barrel is 5 mm longer, while the bullet speed is 20 m / s lower, perhaps after 300 meters this difference is already more significant and gives a deterioration in flatness and, therefore, fire efficiency. But this is only a guess, which may well be wrong.


          I agree with all your statements about the AK-74 - he himself liked to shoot at 300 meters or more (single).

          And about the A545 - most likely balanced automation requires a greater impulse for its work through the gas outlet, which reduces the ballistic characteristics of the bullet and even the large length of the barrel does not compensate for the drop in the initial speed.
          Here I am only for AK - I really liked the ballistics of 5,45 from the AK-74 - an excellent flat trajectory.
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 28 November 2017 12: 15
      0
      and then accuracy drops due to what?

      It does not fall in accuracy. Due to the smaller dispersion of bullets, it is more difficult to hit a target with automatic fire at long distances.
  29. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 28 November 2017 09: 50
    +1
    Solomon solution. Although I think it all comes down to money. It’s time for the Moscow Region to decide, otherwise how much time will pass before they enter the troops ....
  30. RF man
    RF man 28 November 2017 14: 45
    0
    Quote: Slon1978
    Shooting from unstable positions is the main type of shooting in real combat. And when the weapon does not twitch in the hands, then even a mid-range shooter will show results

    “Unstable” is usually understood to mean shooting WITHOUT stopping the weapon against something. In most cases - this is standing shooting. With proper aiming, the accuracy of bullets in the line of line-up ON hit can only affect a moving target - both our and Western sources recognize this.
    When shooting single or "deuce" balanced automation does not give advantages ..

    Personally, I have NOTHING against AEK, but I can understand our MO - an increase in efficiency by 10% with a difference in price of at least 30% .. you will think about the expediency of the transition ...
  31. SIT
    SIT 28 November 2017 15: 41
    +1
    A new weapon is primarily a new cartridge, under which it will be developed. Everything possible was done under the available cartridges in the USSR, and modern managers with their marketing techniques to increase sales volumes will not come up with any better or newer just because lawyers and economists. In addition to twisting and jacking out loot, they no longer know how. Developments are needed to create a single complex of small arms under a single cartridge. Cartridge arr. 1908 with an edge was an anachronism at the end of the 19th century, and we still shoot them. Where are the studies on the maximum power of the intermediate cartridge? The Americans made their 5.56mm and we next without reasoning our 5.45. Only they measure by rifling, and we by fields and this, in principle, is the same caliber, only the sleeves are different. But Fedorov at the beginning of the last century brought calculations and made his machine gun under caliber 6.5. No prophets in your homeland? That's where you need to start work on new weapons, rather than attach jerkers with frills to the AK.
    1. Sergey53
      Sergey53 28 November 2017 17: 40
      0
      And where are the people? They still need to be raised with new thinking and open eyes. Fresh work has just begun to come into the automotive industry and a start has been made. Let me be modest for now. We need designers, etc. So here. And then they crushed everything with authority, but the output is full 0.
  32. aws4
    aws4 28 November 2017 17: 57
    0
    The results showed that the fire efficiency of the AEK-971 assault rifle relative to the AK-12 assault rifle is 1,1 times higher at ranges up to 300 meters, but also lower at long distances. I DO NOT BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!