Military Review

"The history of Ukraine for children" as a reference stone of modern Russophobia

118



Most citizens of countries surrounding Ukraine today with some indifference are watching the rapid decline not only of the economy, ideology and culture in this state. We see a rapid change in the essence of the Ukrainians. The revival of the most vile and most disgusting trait - the betrayal of any ally, exactly when the union ceases to pay dividends to Ukraine and Ukrainians. This is clearly seen today in relations not only with Russia, but with all its neighbors. Perhaps, there is not a single country that is within the "reach of" Ukraine, which would not be criticized by either the state or the independent people.

After the publication of the previous article, more precisely, after getting acquainted with the opinions of readers on the topic raised, the authors had the idea of ​​continuing the conversation about the origins of anti-Russian, and other anti- in Ukraine. Probably, this will surprise some, but we continue to consider Ukrainians as part of the Russian people. We continue to think that the healthy part of the Ukrainians will eventually win. But today, as it is not regrettable, we continue to exist as one people only with Belarus.

The origins of Russia's strength in her stories. For centuries we have resisted the attempts of colonization and capture both from the west and from the east. We have learned at the genetic level to understand our interests, to understand how the modern world works. We learned to fight for ourselves. If you want, we have learned to be a people.

And, accordingly, we consider those who live side by side and equally share with us all this struggle, just like us. Not in appearance, not in language or tradition, in fact. In essence. By the ability to be a people. However, in this case, the question arises about Ukraine. Why? How many people from this country have remained in the history of Russia for centuries. Writers, scientists, generals, designers ... Hundreds of prominent names in their field.

Today the situation is really not in our favor. Russophobia becomes an integral part of life in Ukraine. And, as a result, a convenient way to justify everything that happens there. But more and more often, unwillingly you ask yourself the question: why is that so? Why is Russia and its inhabitants a sort of cesspool for Ukrainians into which absolutely everything can be dumped?

We unexpectedly found the answer to this question in the history of Ukraine. In the story that has long been laid in the heads of Ukrainian children. That story, which forms a person, becomes the foundation for building personality.

Many of us are still convinced that a negative attitude towards Russians and Russia has been cultivated in Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR. And it reached its peak after the last Maidan. We often hear and read in the comments of readers about the amazing metamorphosis that occurred with the Ukrainians. Suddenly and immediately! Alas, such an opinion is wrong. The lack of information led the majority to the wrong construction of the whole chain of reasoning in the future.

Most of us never even thought about a simple question. Why, for example, after the dismissal from the ranks of the USSR Armed Forces, retirees sought to move to the USSR? A simple but interesting question. And the answer?

He is also simple. Remember the provision in Ukraine during the Soviet era? No one has ever concealed that it was higher than in Russia. Ukrainians, arriving in Russian cities were amazed at the lack of much, which was the norm for Ukraine. Why are there software. Look at your own cottage. Why didn't you build a two-story cottage? Salary allowed. Prohibited. But not in Ukraine. I will not even talk about climate. From here came another myth of the USSR. Ukraine breadbasket! Nurse of the whole Union.

Exactly in this it is necessary to look for the origins of anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine. The deterioration of the economic situation in the USSR became the basis on which Ukrainian nationalism was revived. The one that was cultivated by the Ukrainian elite at the beginning of the last century. Nationalism, originally built on betrayal. Everyone and everyone. For the sake of Ukraine.

Simply put, the cult of Judas began to be laid in the heads of Ukrainians already at the state level. Or mazepovschina, if you like. Today they are trying to give us a "simplified version" of Ukrainians. The whole problem is in the language. However, this view is easily destroyed after watching any video of training Ukrainian nationalists. In this environment, an inexplicable paradox for many, sounds Russian! And much more often than mova.

Alas, but mazepovschina lies elsewhere. Not in the love of the language, not with the traditional cult of bacon or galoshes, not in the Ukrainian borsch ... Mazepovschina is a betrayal! Conscious betrayal of their own culture, their own identity, of themselves, ultimately. Mazepovschina in the creation of an anti-Russian state.

To understand this fact, just look into the recent past. At a time when the Union was cracking at the seams, but holding on. In 1990 year. It was this year that the Ukrainians received a “new” history of Ukraine. More precisely, the Ukrainian children received a “new story”. Yes, and it can be called conditionally. This story is written for Ukrainian children by the writer Anton Lototsky back in 1934 year.

The very identity of this writer is quite interesting. During the First World War, Lototsky volunteered to join the army of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the so-called Legion of the Ukrainian Sich Riflemen (OSS). He was a foreman in this legion. He participated in battles with the Russian army. He actively collaborated with the ideological, cultural and educational department of the OSS. Ardent Ukrainophile.

However, this did not prevent him from remaining in Ukraine after the end of the war and even becoming a teacher at the Rohatyn gymnasium. But during the Second World War, Lototsky chose to remain in the occupied territory and lived quite comfortably during this period. Cooperated or did not cooperate with the fascists, history is silent. But he published his books ... After the liberation of Ukraine from the fascists (1944 d) he lived in a Lviv nursing home, where he died.

Let's leave Pano Lototsky for the time being and deal with his “History of Ukraine for Children”. Junior and secondary school age. Already in four volumes.

Honestly, we have mastered only two volumes.

The whole problem is that Lototsky was a really good children's writer. And his books differed very decent circulations and respected. Fairy tales can be read altogether.

But there is so much Russophobia that you just wonder how suddenly a man sneaked on Russia.

"The history of Ukraine for children" as a reference stone of modern Russophobia
The illustration of M. Fartuh “Muscovites are ruining Kiev” to the description of the capture of Kiev in 1169, just from the “History ...” of Lototsky. 1936 edition of the year


Yes, it was. Kiev really captured the neighbors. But why did the inhabitants of the Vladimir-Suzdal principality, which the author regards as a separate ethnos, suddenly become “Muscovites”? If you look at any history, Moscow will become the capital of the princely capital (not the capital of all Russia) in almost a hundred years.

Be patient a couple of quotes?

"The son of Yuri Dolgorukiy - Prince Andrei Bogolyubsky - had already become a stranger to Ukraine, and, sitting in Suzdal and Moscow, looked enviously at Kiev, that he was such a great city. Finally, 10 in March of 1169, he and his army attacked Kiev and took it. He killed all the people of Kiev, and took the women into captivity. He robbed the church and took the icons with him. Since then, Kiev has fallen into disrepair for many centuries and has lost its long-standing meaning "

"Yuri Dolgoruky created a separate state in the north. Finnish people from the Chud tribe inhabited that state, and he brought many more Ukrainians from the north of Ukraine. With this huddle of people, a new nation and a new state, called Moscow, began to be born. Moscow, which was laid by the same Yuri, the son of Monomakh. The descendants of Yuri Dolgoruky, although they came from the Ukrainian kind, then became Ukraine’s biggest enemies "

It is very difficult to say where the relevant authorities looked in 1936, and why Lototsky was not put on Solovki. Apparently, the NKVD books did not read him.

Special mention deserves the history of Khmelnitsky. Long could not understand why Bogdan Khmelnitsky is still a national hero. He signed a contract with the Muscovites and all that. Thanks, enlightened knowledgeable Ukrainians. Based on the same "History ...".

So, Bogdan Khmelnitsky is a hero. He created a separatist and independent Ukraine. And he fought for her independence. With all who have attacked her.

True, he modestly keeps silent about Khmelnytsky’s curtsies with the Tatar Khan Islyam III Giray, who notably plundered Ukraine, but these are trifles. In principle, Khmelnitsky paid for it in 1649, when the allies simply betrayed him for Polish gold and pastures.

But Khmelnytsky’s actions are interpreted as simply an allied treaty with Russia, nothing more. Ukraine was free and independent. Hence, Bogdan Khmelnitsky is definitely a national and national hero.

Well, we are not against this interpretation.

But Yuri (Yuras) Khmelnitsky, his son - a clear traitor. But not because he changed his father’s treaty, betrayed Sheremetev’s troops and took the oath to the Polish king. Not because he accepted the pro-Turkish sentiments of the ataman Doroshenko and in fact became a Turkish protege in Ukraine.

The main betrayal of Yuri is the signing of Pereyaslavsky articles, which severely limited the liberty of the Cossacks.

Normal Ukrainian approach, normal understanding of the essence. Everything that is being done against the Muscovites is for the good. And do not care about everything else, because it was all done for the benefit of Ukraine. A Polish or Turkish sabers - it makes no difference.
By the way, besides publication in 1936 in Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk, “History” was also published in 1942 and 1943 in Lviv and Krakow. What in general gives an excellent picture to understanding the essence of the content.

Mr. Goebbels in his ranks did not keep idiots and "chopped chip".

Well, as soon as the smell of "Square", and in general lepotas began.

Even before. The first reissue of "History ..." was held in 1990 year. In Ternopil, as in the historical homeland of Lototsky. And then the triumphal procession of the book began in all the cities of independent Ukraine. It's easier to say where it was not published.

For the sake of justice, we note that ours did not lag behind. The publishing house "Phoenix" in Moscow, in 1993, also published the "History ..." in Russian.

In general, Ukrainian experts estimate the circulation of "History ..." in 3,5-3,8 million copies.

On the example of the “History of Ukraine for Children”, Lototsky clearly shows how at a young age one can form a hatred of “Moskals”, a cult of betrayal for the sake of a “high idea”. Thinking readers have already seen the essence of such education. And some of the "mine", which was laid at the same time. Mina, which should break the state. Paradox? By no means ...

Hatred of Russians, according to Ukrainian nationalists, should have led to the persecution of Russians in Ukraine. However, the nationalists have forgotten the simple truth. The Soviet Union was a state of internationalists. Maybe not ideological, but internationalists. Worked perfectly debugged "system of mixing" of the peoples. The system of turning people into a "single Soviet people."

From here, the persecution of Russians in Ukraine resulted in a completely unexpected form for nationalists. It turned into a persecution of Ukrainians. Ukrainians as part of the very Soviet, and therefore the Russian people. Here they are where the 30 silver coins of Judas surfaced. Here it is, the very “mine” that was laid by Lototsky.

Boys and girls who were brought up on the "History ..." Lototsky today under and for 30. That they are now fighting volunteers in the Donbas. It is they who adopt the idiotic laws in the Rada. It is these descendants of Judah who are today methodically and consistently killing Ukraine. And they are no longer reeducated. How not to re-educate their children. Hatred and betrayal became part of their nature. Part of them themselves.

Partly because, from an early age, it was precisely this thought that was hammered into the head: there was no good from the Russians. And the second: if you need to betray for the sake of the idea of ​​Great Ukraine, betray.

It is clear to any sensible person that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will never be stronger than the Russian army. And, therefore, Ukraine will never achieve a military victory over Russia. It is also clear that any, we emphasize any, relations with Russia is harmful for the Ukrainian state. This leads to the “extinction” of Ukrainian statehood as such. A limb cannot exist separately from the body. You can say even harder - a vampire cannot live without someone else's blood.

The destruction of the system of social guarantees, the destruction of the health care system, civil war, the destruction of industry and agriculture, whose hands is this business? Russians? No, the Ukrainians themselves did and continue to do. Those Judah children.

Has life become better for Ukrainians? Increased pensions, wages? There is more order on the streets? Maybe crime has disappeared? Has science flourished? Can anyone even call the real Ukrainian "Peremog"? It is not necessary for Jewish children from among those brought up on new Ukrainian history textbooks. Strange? Ukrainians do not need Ukraine!

At the end of the article it is necessary to return to what we have already written about many times. Alas, but that fraternal Ukrainian people, which we know, live out their last years. Lives in the literal sense of the word. Purely for biological reasons. People are mortal. And their life is limited. And those who are now 30 plus or minus are no longer brothers. Just citizens of a neighboring state. And the Russian brothers will never be. Today it is the enemy. Perhaps, if Ukraine is lucky to survive as a single country, in the future we will become just neighbors. But brothers ...

Many may fairly note that the "Stories ..." in terms of circulation and exposure to "Mein Kampf" or the "History of the CPSU" is very far away. We agree. But this is just a stone in the foundation of Russophobia, a stone that is laid in the soul and head of a child from an early age.

And then there are more serious works. In which, by the way, references to Lototsky is complete. And we will come to them very soon, we will introduce.
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  1. Sergey-svs
    Sergey-svs 25 November 2017 07: 34 New
    24
    Every day insanity only grows stronger. fool Amazing people who never cease to amaze! lol



    laughing laughing laughing
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 25 November 2017 09: 52 New
      20
      Amazing people who never cease to amaze
      So it was created about a hundred years ago, it was then that they came up with ukristoriya, ukkultura. It was then that Russian monuments, Russian names of streets, squares, tetras were demolished, and Shevchenko monuments appeared on Shevchenko Square, next to the Shevchenko library on Shevchenko Avenue. And to turn Russians into Ukrainians, the ukronazist Grushevsky was officially invited with tens of thousands of nationalist associates, which they did successfully. During perestroika, it suddenly became clear that ALL color of the Ukrainian elite (Ypres writers) was a terrible nationalist. They did not fly from Mars, but were brought up in Ukrainian schools and universities. As well as Poroshenko with Yarosh and Pashinsky. Alas. They wanted "national in form, socialist in content." But it turned out nat. in form and Nazi in content
      The article noted
      It is very difficult to say where the relevant authorities looked in 1936, and why Lototsky was not put on Solovki. Apparently, the NKVD books did not read him.

      The fact is that in 1936 Lototsky lived in Western Ukraine (his book was also published there), it was Poland, and for the first time in the USSR his “History” appeared in 1990 there.
      But the "history" of Grushevsky in the USSR was no better ..
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 25 November 2017 10: 20 New
        +6
        Quote: Olgovich
        But the "history" of Grushevsky in the USSR

        Another pearl?
        Olgovich go to school, by God, your scribble has pretty much fed up with his stupidity.
        Here is the look of a scientist, not a talker of an anti-Russian type like you.
        http://ruspravda.info/Ukrainizatsiya-kak-ona-bila
        -3719.html
        1. avt
          avt 25 November 2017 10: 46 New
          +7
          Quote: Olgovich
          But the "history" of Grushevsky in the USSR was no better ..


          Quote: badens1111
          Quote: Olgovich
          But the "history" of Grushevsky in the USSR

          Another pearl?
          Olgovich go to school, by God, your scribble has pretty much fed up with his stupidity.
          Here is the look of a scientist, not a talker of an anti-Russian type like you.
          http://ruspravda.info/Ukrainizatsiya-kak-ona-bila
          -3719.html

          bully And it’s the weakest thing for a search engine to work and find, though not school, but knowledge about WHERE and on which path, "Grushevsky worked during the existence of the Ukrainian SSR until 1934 ?? So - ,, Learn, study and study again!"
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 25 November 2017 11: 35 New
            +3
            Quote: avt
            And the weakest search engine to work and

            How do you like to give a lecture about Grushevsky, since you are not able to learn even what you brought on the platter, the opinion of a historian. Profi, unlike talkers like olgovich?
            So you, "study, study and study again" since you are in this topic, swim
            1. Nicholas C.
              Nicholas C. 25 November 2017 12: 23 New
              17
              It would be good if the authors, opposing the Jesuit propaganda, themselves did not let it into themselves drop by drop.
              I note that in pedia and pedian-like products, a Jesuit version of the story is already set forth. The Americans do not spare billions on this. It is easier and cheaper to reprogram a generation than to conquer it in a real war. And in the search engines pages pop up fake links with Svidomo tales.
              1. According to the notorious burning of Kiev by the son of Andrei Bogolyubsky. The rule in Kiev of Volyn Prince Mstislav Izyaslavovich was disputed. This is the very prince who was involved in the poisoning in Kiev of Yuri Dolgoruky, father of Andrei Bogolyubsky. It is for this reason that Andrei Bogolyubsky moved the capital of Russia from Kiev to Vladimir. Mstislav Izyaslavovich was supported only by the Galician prince Yaroslav Osmomysl, but did not fight for him. He was supported by a number of small relatives. I defended Mstislav Izyaslavovich in Kiev against the Russian princes I can not fight: Torques and Berendeys. I note that the troops of Grand Duke Andrei Bogolyubsky were present Olgovichi. I will assume that the Chernigov and Seversky soldiers in the Russian army were just the majority. Because these principalities at that time were the most powerful in Russia. And because they were closer to Kiev. But not only the decisive role of these princes in the capture of Kiev in 1169, but the Svidomites themselves deny their participation, as was the defense of Kiev at that time. Today it is like Ukraine. The internecine strife does not fit into Svidomo nonsense about Muscovites. Mstislav Izyaslavovich also noted that he brought to Russia to conquer the Poles and Magyars. See Ipatiev Chronicle, 1843:
              2. Bogdan Khmelnitsky did not know any Ukrainians. He called his land Little Russia. His people called Russian. And no other way. According to the notorious Pereyaslav articles. Just read it. There are no restrictions to the Cossacks there. Unless they were forbidden to establish diplomatic relations on behalf of the state and declare war. The articles there are just about liberties and salaries. That 60 registry is for those who pay from the Russian treasury, and to whom how much to pay. With liberties there was just bust. In addition to obtaining Russian laws, there remained to act: the Lithuanian Statute, Polish laws, Magdeburg law. It was this hetmanism that ruined. The courts that were in the hands of the Cossack elite chose the most suitable law for the elite, by which they were judged. As a result, they robbed everyone, including the previously prosperous Cossacks, life in the hetman for the vast majority of the population became unbearable. As a result, local petitioned Petersburg with complaints that the Empress should leave only one law - Russian. See the conclusions of the Teplovsk Commission.
              References and scans from the code of laws of the Russian Empire relating to those years, I have already cited here repeatedly.

              PS. Hunter badens annealed. Grushevsky can be called a professional historian only on the same grounds as Suvorov (Rezun). The article under discussion is just about this topic, only considers another Jesuit nonsense. In the Russian Empire, Grushevsky could not compete in any department (just get there). It is for this reason that he went to the provincial Austrian Lviv. Grushevsky betrayed his father. However, all the heroes of Ukraine: Judah and Mazepa.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 25 November 2017 12: 29 New
                +3
                Quote: Nikolai S.
                Hunter badens annealed.

                What a liar you are ... Well, try again, in your own manner to the Uryakvasgaz, will put something else, for example, to this opinion
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E81yXU94mc
                Quote: Nikolai S.
                The article under discussion is just about this topic, only considers another Jesuit nonsense.

                The article under discussion in your vision is lame not just on one leg, but in general a scythe and a crooked side. And you, like you, appear on the same side as a ukrohunt, practically speaking in their own words, they yell something about Muscovites, unimaginable nonsense, you are screaming with the same rapture that all Ukrainians are similar to Grushevsky and Bandera.
                As a result, you and others like you work against the meaning of the ONE history of Russia
              2. antivirus
                antivirus 27 November 2017 11: 44 New
                0
                it is also clear that a break in any, we emphasize any, relations with Russia is harmful to the Ukrainian state. This leads to the "extinction" of Ukrainian statehood as such.
                OUR HANDS DO NOT DECIDE THE DRIVERS TO DIVIDE OR AT LEAST TO BE MANAGED AND RE-EDITED TO THE EDGE. EXPENSELY DOES NOT APPLY TO KUDRIN'S ECONOMY.
                MAXIMUM - GO ABOUT HER. WHAT AND DID WITH TRANSIT
              3. fanfan tulip
                fanfan tulip 27 November 2017 15: 47 New
                0
                the fact is that it’s strange why Muscovites call us Russians. \\\ after all, all historical assumptions look quite the opposite. all Ukrainians should be considered Russian. After all, Rurik came to them with his tribe Rus. so they are Russian and we are just Slavs.
            2. avt
              avt 25 November 2017 13: 23 New
              +4
              Quote: badens1111
              How do you like to give a lecture about Grushevsky,

              ,, Ahhh, grouse on the current ... "and .... Who is talking about, you know about yours, about the girl's.
              Quote: Olgovich
              The fact is that in 1936 Lototsky lived in Western Ukraine (his book was also published there), it was Poland, and for the first time in the USSR his “History” appeared in 1990 there.
              But the "history" of Grushevsky in the USSR was no better ..

              ,, Olgovich "points to a reality quite confirmed by historical facts, explains to you that the true Leninists carried out Ukrainization almost like Bandera. Without hesitating to attract, like the USs to the State Department, the post of“ watching ”the human rights of Nazi collaborators in Eastern Europe , quite a practicing philosophist-father of the founders. Only Stalin calmed down - the students were repressed, and the arrested Grushevsky ... rested at a resort in Kislovodsk in 1934, so I understood the exile of the “enemy of the people". So
              Quote: badens1111
              since you are in this thread, swim

              Like a fish in water, we will teach you.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 25 November 2017 14: 43 New
                +3
                Quote: avt
                , Olgovich "points to a reality quite confirmed by historical facts, explains to you that true Leninists

                After this phrase, all other sets of letters can not be read, nonsense is written.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 25 November 2017 11: 06 New
          +4
          Quote: badens1111
          Olgovich go to school, by God, your scribble has pretty much fed up with his stupidity.

          Tired of your empty chatter in response to the facts of the transformation of Russian into non-Russian-Ukrainians in Little Russia.
          By the way, you never answered before: WHY Novorossia (Russia), against its will .... in Ukraine ?!
          Quote: badens1111
          Here is the look of a scientist, not a talker of an anti-Russian type like you.
          http://ruspravda.info/Ukrainizatsiya-kak-ona-bila
          -3719.html

          Wonderful article! Have you ever read WHAT to bring? lol
          The conclusion of your recommended article:
          Ukraine and Little Russia are different political projects. Little Russia was part of the all-Russian project. And the basis of Ukrainian national identity is the idea differences between Ukrainians and Russians.
          The processes taking place today in Ukraine can be called Ukrainization. This is about the same areas that were carried out in the UNR and in the Ukrainian SSR

          "Thank you" for the grown MONSTER.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 25 November 2017 11: 40 New
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            empty chatter

            Yours? Yes, I’m tired, like your stupid arguments and deserts of "facto", rumors of gossip with rumors
            Quote: Olgovich
            Have you ever read WHAT to bring?

            You obviously don’t read, nor do you understand what is written there
            For especially stubborn, not understanding the processes at that time in UKRAINE, ENLIGHT
            https://cycyron.livejournal.com/2641037.html
            However, here, too, he didn’t know how to read and understand what was written.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 25 November 2017 12: 47 New
                +2
                Quote: Olgovich
                What is it, comrade bades?

                Again, an attempt in your usual manner to turn everything into a big top circus, distorting a nickname, trying to insult your opponent?
                And Donbass, fights off your kind. From those who are raised as you are in an extremely anti-Soviet and anti-Russian environment. You are no different from those in Ruin.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 25 November 2017 12: 56 New
                  +2
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  What is it, comrade bades?

                  Again, an attempt in your usual manner to turn everything into a big top circus, distorting a nickname, trying to insult your opponent?

                  SHO, comrade baden, nothing to answer? request Still, BOTH your links-SO hit you it’s hard to find oneself.
                  You-disappeared links look!
                  These I have already adopted, are good! Especially this horror to rob the Russian people in favor of the nationals (from YOU link lol
                  You robbed Russian -fearfully
                  PS FIFTH TIME I ask6 WHY Novorossiya (Russia), against her will, ended up in Ukraine ?! am
                  PS2 sorry for missing the letter "n" hi
                  1. avt
                    avt 25 November 2017 13: 39 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    PS FIFTH TIME I ask6 WHY Novorossiya (Russia), against her will, ended up in Ukraine ?!

                    But seriously, I think so - Krosh, according to the methodology expressed by Lenin back in his discussions about the pride of the Great Russians, he practiced in practice, as he actually did in the development of the world revolution, even in Europe, he was trying to break through the national policy on the fragments of the Empire.
                  2. betta
                    betta 28 November 2017 08: 06 New
                    0
                    Do I understand correctly? is it per capita? It turns out the RSFSR 15rub and the USSR 25rub. which of the common feeders got more? who lived richer?
              2. badens1111
                badens1111 25 November 2017 14: 47 New
                +2
                Quote: Olgovich
                Op-pa, comrade bodens! Your link is FULLY confirmed .... me!

                She confirms your stupidity.
                "
                We emphasize that, contrary to the widespread myth, not only Stalin, but also Lenin was a supporter of the “one indivisible”. For example, in a draft thesis on politics in Ukraine prepared for the meeting of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) On November 21, 1919, Lenin noted: “For now, I am an independent Ukrainian [Ainu] Socialist R [Republic], in close federation with the RSFSR ... p. 2 at the Politburo of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) 21.XI. 19 “to accept, indicating that prior to the convening of the Ukrainian Congress of Soviets, Ukraine and Russia shall be federated on the basis of a resolution of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee and a resolution of the Politburo of 1.VI.19, and that at the same time, careful preparation of plans for the merger of Ukraine and Russia is being carried out on a party basis” ”[ Lenin V.I. Unknown documents ... S. 306.]
                "
                Quote: Olgovich
                PS THE FOURTH TIME I ASK6 WHY Novorossiya (Russia), against her will, ended up in Ukraine ?!

                Because in 1991 people like you came to power, so don’t ascribe your sins to others — you know the names — Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich — yours.
            2. Usher
              Usher 27 November 2017 00: 53 New
              +1
              Justify the attracted? Where are your arguments? Links, facts? And so you just pi ... bol
          2. avt
            avt 25 November 2017 13: 30 New
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            By the way, you never answered before: WHY Novorossia (Russia), against its will .... in Ukraine ?!

            Why, why ..... horseradish prove grouse on current. that according to the signed agreement, well, if about the Donetsk-Kryvyi Rih Soviet Republic - part of the historical New Russia, and on the rights of the FEDERATION WITH PRESERVATION OF BILINGUALISM! Which immediately poheril for the sake of political expediency. For all this there is one argument
            Quote: badens1111
            Yes, I’m tired, like your stupid arguments and deserts of “facto”, rumors of gossip with rumors

            fool клиника
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 25 November 2017 14: 50 New
              +3
              Quote: avt
              horseradish prove grouse on current

              Well, if you’re the most deaf, then yes, you won’t prove anything. However, it’s funny to me to observe how you, in a pack with an inveterate pro-Western, cuckoo exactly the same heresy that you threw from abroad and local tryndychs, like everyone knows Svanidz and others.
              Stalin is considered the main initiator of the indigenous program. So, at the XII Congress, he demanded "to take all measures to ensure that Soviet power in the republics became clear and dear ... that not only schools, but also all institutions, all bodies, both party and Soviet, were nationalized step by step, so that they acted in a language understood by the masses. ”

              The decree of August 1, 1923 demanded "to choose the Ukrainian language as the predominant one for official relations." In accordance with this decree, persons carrying out public service had to study the Ukrainian language in a short time period - from 6 months to a year - otherwise they would face dismissal. On April 30, 1925, a decree was issued ordering all state institutions and state commercial and industrial enterprises on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR to translate paperwork into Ukrainian no later than January 1, 1926. And the decision of June 6, 1927 demanded that all legal documents of the state bodies of the Ukrainian SSR be kept in Ukrainian and Russian; from now on, internal office work should have been conducted purely in Ukrainian. However, in spite of all these decrees, there were not enough personnel who knew the Ukrainian language, and we had to constantly issue new decrees that postponed the deadline for the full translation of office work into Ukrainian.
              What is not clear to you, Mr. UNKNOWN the realities of that era?

              Based on the foregoing, we list the main reasons for carrying out Ukrainization:

              1) The need to intercept the national question from other political forces, and due to this get support, first of all, from the politically active, revolutionary part of the Ukrainian population; to conclude an alliance, primarily with the National Communists.

              2) To create an attractive image for Western (primarily Galician Ukrainians), who have lost (after the reconstruction of Poland) the hope of creating an independent Ukrainian national state in Eastern Galicia.

              3) To weaken the influence of Poland on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR, which not only played a huge role in the creation of the anti-Russian Ukrainian movement, but also captured vast territories of Ukraine, as well as retained significant positions among Ukrainian nationalists (both outside Russia and inside it), requiring the sovereignty of Ukraine .

              4) To find support among broad sections of the Little Russian population who are dissatisfied with the surplus development carried out in the conditions of the civil war.

              5) To create in Ukraine a Bolshevik and at the same time a national Ukrainian political elite capable of neutralizing separatist tendencies, taking control of nationalist intelligentsia and establishing deep ties with the masses.

              6) Shut up the mouth of Ukrainian political emigration, accusing the Bolsheviks of oppressing Ukrainian culture.

              7) To create with their national policy throughout the world a favorable image of oneself as the main fighters for social and national justice of the peoples oppressed by world imperialism, and thanks to this, establish strong ties with national liberation movements (primarily in Asia) with the aim of the subsequent organization of the World Communist Revolution. So, in 1920, Kamenev said: “Our solution to the national question became the center of attraction for the vast masses of Indians, Chinese and other peoples, with whom no one had previously considered, they were too poor and too backward, they did not have a leader. This leader is now in the person of Soviet Russia, and, of course, the degree of trust in us on the part of these multimillion masses <...> will depend on how we solve the national question in our country. "
      2. yarema vishneveckiy
        yarema vishneveckiy 25 November 2017 21: 11 New
        +1
        Why do not you see a whole series of Ukrainian hetmans, starting from the 16th century, these are K. Ostrozhsky, D. Vishnevetsky, Sagaidachny, Somko, Samo
        Loyvich, Doroshenko, Vygovsky, Khmelnytsky is the same ... Mazepa, Half-earnings ... This is a stream of traitors, players in politics .... These are genes, this will not change ANYTHING !!! ...... Only, unfortunately, methods of Heinrich Himmler)))))))
    2. Hoc vince
      Hoc vince 25 November 2017 09: 57 New
      +4
      About school, textbooks are remembered only when something happens, funded by the residual principle.
      And as the well-known teacher E. A. Yamburg correctly noted: "Save on schools - go bankrupt in prisons."
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 25 November 2017 11: 52 New
      0
      Poroshenko proposed the EU three Union. They laughed maliciously at him. laughing
    4. Sofa General
      Sofa General 25 November 2017 13: 41 New
      +6

      something like this. funny and sad
    5. bk316
      bk316 26 November 2017 14: 56 New
      +2
      But I think that cons on VO canceled for a reason.
      One provocateur with the help of fakes and just dumping on the forum what is called verbal diarrhea (self-refuting links, comments about the identity of opponents, discussions about nothing) can easily drown out the voice of knowledgeable and responsible people.
      This is what I would understand about badens1111 VS Olgovich and Avt. A self-regulating educated community would have sent a troll to the skulls long ago, but no, they were canceled.
  2. Nonna
    Nonna 25 November 2017 07: 38 New
    19
    That's right. There are no fraternal people, although Putin and the propaganda-controlled ones are constantly pushing this. Frankly, the topic of Ukraine is completely uninteresting to me and really bored. I have no relatives there, there are in Sevastopol. Every summer, I observe the same picture - crowds of wild Ukrainian farmers besiege the beaches of the Black Sea city. The Soviet generation leaves - the young Russophobic plankton remains - corrupt, lazy, aggressive, without moral principles - ready-made terrorists. Personally, I am for visas with Ukraine, all migrant workers to their historical homeland (as well as Central Asians), because this is a means of keeping Russian people in labor slavery by Russian capitalism (low wages, black cash, corruption). And Putin’s mantras about "relatives", as well as about overseas partners, do not work.
    1. dSK
      dSK 25 November 2017 08: 03 New
      +4
      Hello, Alexander Morozov! Ukrainian about Russia: “Russians - you are snickering, in fact you live in a beautiful country! ..” She has something to compare .... hi
    2. yarema vishneveckiy
      yarema vishneveckiy 26 November 2017 00: 30 New
      0
      Russians are allowed into their country ......... you understand who))))
    3. Antianglosax
      Antianglosax 27 November 2017 09: 38 New
      +1
      About 10 years of famine, devastation and deprivation, amid a prosperous Russia and the inhabitants of the outskirts will again become brothers, no doubt! wink It remains to make Russia prosperous, which is actually problematic, given what unscrupulous characters are at the helm.
  3. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 25 November 2017 07: 56 New
    +3
    If you want to completely reformat the people, then start by creating a new history (as you would like to see it), with a curriculum in schools and universities and of course the appointment of the main enemy of your country. In less than 25 years, the people will become what you want.
    1. 34 region
      34 region 25 November 2017 08: 29 New
      +5
      rotmistr60 Today, 07:56. Good comment! But is it not so in Russia with respect to the period after the 17th year? According to today's version of history, those who saved and raised Russia are the enemies of Russia! We also have an enemy and the people believe in it! Is a good system when you cut a window to Europe, invite foreigners, give them Kemsky parish (saints of the 90s!)? Is a good system when the tricolor defeated in the Second World War, and fought for a just cause with the money of foreigners in the Civil Tricolor? Is a good system recognizing the superiority of the West in everything? Ukraine CE Europe-Russia is part of the global economy! Are slogans in tune?
    2. Maverick78
      Maverick78 25 November 2017 18: 08 New
      +1
      Exactly. And you don’t have to reformat everything ... just put the reformatted in the right places.
  4. 34 region
    34 region 25 November 2017 08: 15 New
    12
    *** For centuries we have resisted attempts to colonize and capture both from the west and from the east. *** In military terms, yes, opposed. And after the confrontation, what did they do? They invited foreigners to themselves! Both Peter and Catherine did this, and both Gorbachev and Yeltsin did it, and Putin does it. Today we scold the outskirts for treason. Ukraine was sold and is being sold to the West! But what about Russia in this regard? But Russia is doing the same! Russia does not turn back to Russia? But Russia, like Ukraine, is running to integrate into the West, losing slippers! Russia does not scold Russia? Scolds. And how he scolds! Which Russia is abused by Russia? Soviet. In Soviet Russia, everything was wrong! You catch the resemblance to the outskirts ?! Muscovites (Bolsheviks) outraged ,,,! You can certainly blame the inhabitants of the outskirts of betrayal. But our kings from the time of Peter suffered strabismus towards the West. St. Nicholas II also squinted heavily to the West (for which he paid). We don’t have Lototsky ?! Oh well! We have enough of these! Remember how they opened our eyes in the 90s. Doesn’t resemble the outskirts? Exactly the same truth about the past. And it turns out that we and the outskirts are really brothers, both in spirit and in mother! Didn't Gorbachev sell for cookies? And then? Did we hold the defense? Or went on the offensive? How is it today? We surrender, defend, attack? Here is yesterday's news about athletes. Is this our offensive, defense, surrender? What about property ownership? And in the economy. What are we doing? Surrendered, hold the defense, attack? And international organizations? We are partners ?! Is it like a dog and a stick? Russia is in the role of a dog in this partnership.
    1. passing
      passing 25 November 2017 10: 16 New
      +3
      Almost all are satisfied with this power, and those in power are getting richer, the people getting poorer are not going to refuse.
    2. Maverick78
      Maverick78 25 November 2017 18: 05 New
      0
      There is a rational kernel, the main thing in extremes is not to rush ... Russia will not pull autocracy
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 25 November 2017 08: 31 New
    +6
    Well, they’re "fools" ... but it’s better here. 25 years the memory of the Soviet state has been erased, slowly, but it’s going, the territory is larger and the population ..
  6. izya top
    izya top 25 November 2017 08: 35 New
    +5
    Yes, it was. Kiev was really captured by neighbors.

  7. Maverick78
    Maverick78 25 November 2017 08: 52 New
    +5
    I do not agree with the authors. It seems that they wrote something correctly, but the conclusions are simple. In Ukraine there are enough people who understand what is happening, they have never turned their backs on Russia. But they won’t be able to combine them ... You will put everything in one heap and on one head, instead of sorting out the situation and trying to find a solution to the problem. The majority of the population has complete mess in their heads, even among many ATO workers. And this means that they are not ideological, they are just brains. But those who could interfere with this process at one time did not receive any support from Russia. I got ok Yanyk, fucking oligarchs ... and people for whom all Russian is not an empty phrase - did not receive. No need to tell what was not before ...
    1. ibirus
      ibirus 25 November 2017 09: 37 New
      +4
      The brotherhood of the republics ended in 1991. Everyone began to live independently. If someone thinks that in Ukraine everything will end and the Russian Federation will begin to help and give Ukraine gifts in a new way, then shish. You yourself decided your fate by doing nothing.
    2. AleBors
      AleBors 25 November 2017 10: 37 New
      +1
      Brains are treated by removing them from their heads. And do not complicate. The population of Ukraine is continuous "hatskrayniki", with small-town values. They themselves have chosen such a life.
    3. avt
      avt 25 November 2017 10: 56 New
      +3
      Quote: Maverick78
      In Ukraine there are enough people who understand what is happening, they have never turned their backs on Russia. But they won’t be able to combine them ... You will put everything in one heap and on one head, instead of sorting out the situation and trying to find a solution to the problem.

      The solution to the problem follows from the teaching of Ukrainian Nazis. Well, if you carefully study the teachings from the current heroes-Bandera and Shukhevych. And they build a united Ukraine according to one principle voiced by them, that's almost verbatim
      "Our power must be scary."
      “... to ensure that not a single village recognizes Soviet power. OUN must act so that everyone who recognizes Soviet power is destroyed. Not to be taken aback, but physically destroyed! ”
      .... if this requires the destruction of two-thirds of the population, we will do it
      So u
      Quote: Maverick78
      enough people who understand what’s going on,

      There are the following options - to run away, with arms in hand to resist, to die. Well, or goodbye.
      1. Maverick78
        Maverick78 25 November 2017 18: 02 New
        +2
        Well, so far they can’t solve problems this way, although they really want to ... there was a video in the net like ATOshnik caught the trait that got to the saleswoman about the service in Derzhmovi.
        To run is not an option, to fight .... by whom? What forces? You fought a lot in the 90s? Will be recognized. .. nope ... for ideological and psychological reasons. I don’t know what to do next, but you know even less than me.
        1. avt
          avt 25 November 2017 21: 04 New
          0
          Quote: Maverick78
          I don’t know what to do next, but you know even less than me.

          bully
          Oh don't lie, oh don't lie! You are lying to the king! Not by human desire, but by God's permission, the King I am!
          Here looking at
          Quote: Maverick78
          To run is not an option, to fight .... by whom? What forces? You fought a lot in the 90s? Will be recognized. .. nope ... for ideological and psychological reasons.

          It is clearly visible - I’m right! BUT make that decision for YOU and I believe that it’s scary
          Quote: Maverick78
          I do not know what to do next,

          Of course, it’s scary - the familiar world has completely collapsed, as we all had in 1991, when we all crawled out of the pit according to our national methods. And I don’t really want to make a decision, for which I myself will have to answer for myself. I understand - the choice is difficult, but from this, purely childishly I want to hide under the covers and let someone else be to blame.
          Quote: Maverick78
          but you know even less than me.

          bully Moreover, he doesn’t know what to do bullyIn the sense that it is scary from the choice. You won’t believe it, but I’m really not interested in what choice you are, here you personally will make it. And not from any anger. or my cynicism, but because it is YOUR life, YOUR decision and YOUR responsibility for its adoption. So hide behind my comment in the virtual
          Quote: Maverick78
          oh you know even less than me.

          I do not advise.
    4. Finches
      Finches 25 November 2017 11: 15 New
      +7
      Maverick78

      Every year, I am increasingly convinced that in Ukraine there are no normal people, not that crazy, but people with the opposite Russian consciousness, it is more natural for Ukrainians to live in sixes, but in Europe than to be equal in commonwealth with fraternal peoples: Belarusian and Russian! That's when the mentality, from the depths of centuries, the essence of the nation still crawled out - and whoever has a different consciousness, they stayed with us: Crimea, despite all the obvious problems from the whole "civilized" humanity or do it as part of Donbass, Transnistria ...!
      Forgive me for such a sharp opinion, but it is confirmed, unfortunately, by the facts! hi
      1. Maverick78
        Maverick78 25 November 2017 17: 51 New
        +3
        This is the usual ignorance of the matter. You, we ... I have a bunch of fucking acquaintances with RUSSIAN last names, whose parents, or even they themselves came here and now they tell me, the native, about the oppression of Muscovites by Ukrainians, different peoples, etc. Where do you write them? And where do you write Bezborodko, Paskevich, Kotlyarevsky, Kovpak, Kozhedub? The cowardly traitors and the European Sixes? Guys, you are slowly degrading to the level of Svidomo ...
        1. Finches
          Finches 25 November 2017 18: 01 New
          +3
          I myself am a quarter crest ... However, this is my personal opinion, and I do not impose it on anyone, but it is unlikely to change him! And we are not degrading, we are changing ... Here is the response of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Belarus at the Eastern Partnership Summit to the EU representatives: "You are number two for us, after Russia ..."and here is the sacred slogan of Maidan:"I am a girl! I do not want in the TS, I want lace panties in the EU!" - comments are unnecessary ... Feel the difference and understand why we are changing! + 250 thousand ordinary citizens of Ukraine - ATO participants who took part in the murder of their citizens who did not share their views ... hi
          1. Maverick78
            Maverick78 25 November 2017 19: 16 New
            +3
            If you primitize everything, you will definitely degrade. Just because one sheep wanted cowards does not mean that the rest were there for the same. A lot of people went there not even for Europe, but against pi to ra Yanyk, who zae. .bal almost all of his stupidity and redneck. And the right people were wrapped where they needed to. Why the right people weren’t on your side - questions to your special services
            1. Finches
              Finches 25 November 2017 20: 09 New
              +3
              For centuries, Russia has not intervened in the affairs of states without their personal request - we are not the United States, but a self-sufficient country and we, like America, do not need to prove anything to anyone! Special services ... and the lion's share of Ukrainians who voted for Poroshenko? This is a stupid argument and I think that my opinion is closer to the truth than yours! Mine is confirmed by the whole chain of events taking place in Ukraine, yours is nothing ... However, I wish Ukraine good luck! Because the truth in life is one and it, sooner or later, puts everything in its place hi
              1. Maverick78
                Maverick78 25 November 2017 20: 34 New
                +3
                I say, ignorance of the issue. Do you really think that this clown really scored 53%? Of those people that I talked to BEFORE the elections, God forbid 20 percent to vote for him. These are your "partners" who have tried.
                1. Finches
                  Finches 25 November 2017 20: 56 New
                  +2
                  Then another question - did you so famously go out on a couple of Maidans, including against Yanukovych, whom you called pi to roma in your post, but can’t go against Poroshenko? So everything is fine! Isn’t it?
                  1. Maverick78
                    Maverick78 26 November 2017 00: 20 New
                    +3
                    I did not go to any of the Maidan, I knew and saw what was going on. I tried to tell, explain to people whom I knew how it would end ... I tell now, although it has become much more complicated. This does not negate the fact that Yanyk ... he did not so much set us up as you ... Instead of normal development, Russia is now forced to brush aside its "partners" in all directions. Why the hell do you keep this pack of ub people I don’t understand. I can’t use it, send it to Donbass, where they will find where to apply them. I never said that Maidan is a spontaneous event, such things are very carefully organized. And now there is no one to organize, for they will shoot. And even if they hadn’t fired, it’s not anyone. ALL media are under the west, all people with money too
              2. avt
                avt 25 November 2017 21: 23 New
                0
                Quote: Finches
                For centuries, Russia has not intervened in the affairs of states without their personal request - we are not the United States, but a self-sufficient country and we, like America, do not need to prove anything to anyone!

                Quote: Maverick78
                I say, ignorance of the issue. Do you really think that this clown really scored 53%? Of those people that I talked to BEFORE the elections, God forbid 20 percent to vote for him. These are your "partners" who have tried.

                Quote: Maverick78
                Why the right people weren’t on your side - questions to your special services

                bully bully Classics of the genre ! Straight ,, Evenings on a farm near Dikanka "! Zyablintsev!
                Quote: Maverick78
                If you primitize everything, you will definitely degrade.

                Well, you see - dumplings themselves dipped in sour cream in their mouths do not fly! It is difficult to recruit in our special services and go at least to put them in your mouth!? Aya-yay! bully Yes! ,, Aaaa Napole-e-doc, I will say-oo-oo "
                Quote: Maverick78
                And where do you write Bezborodko, Paskevich, Kotlyarevsky, Kovpak, Kozhedub? The cowardly traitors and the European Sixes? Guys, you are slowly degrading to the level of Svidomo ...

                bully My dear! Kovpak got up and pa-a-ash went and started with a dozen, no more, Companions. That is, he made his own personal choice
                Quote: avt
                There are the following options - to run away, with arms in hand to resist, to die. Well, or goodbye.

                Tell which one? bully
                1. Maverick78
                  Maverick78 26 November 2017 00: 23 New
                  +3
                  My dear in your mirror. Read the comments of your brothers, they have written ALL in the traitors, and therefore Kovpak too.
                  1. avt
                    avt 26 November 2017 10: 43 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Maverick78
                    Read the comments of your brothers, they have written ALL in the traitors, and therefore Kovpak too.

                    bully Well, and feel better? Like, we’re not like that, but everyone betrayed us, and even with Kovpak! bully Once again, for the “wise crucians” who decided that all together they should rush to help them out, and they will look and say whether they will be rescued correctly or not, and if they don’t come, then they would betray them
                    Protect you from troubles
                    I now have no reason!
                    You for your own meanness
                    Himself must keep the answer !.
                    1. Maverick78
                      Maverick78 26 November 2017 12: 01 New
                      +1
                      Give at least one of my comments where I asked me to help me out or save me. I’m just saying the opposite ... don’t think about it.
                      1. avt
                        avt 26 November 2017 17: 51 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Maverick78
                        I’m just saying the opposite ... don’t think about it.

                        Thank God and do not think! Here, despite all our homegrown clicks - ,, Putin! Enter the troops! "And only really help those who actually already decided on
                        Quote: avt
                        run away, with arms in hand to resist, die. Well, or goodbye.

                        bully
      2. avt
        avt 25 November 2017 21: 15 New
        +3
        Quote: Finches
        Every year I am increasingly convinced that there are no normal people in Ukraine, not that crazy, but people with a Russian consciousness that is opposite to us,

        Well, this is just quite understandable and understandable. We didn’t have such an impact on the psyche, even on a massive scale, even with the revelry of sects from the moment of Kashpirovsky’s shining on TV and broadcasting Chumak’s silence minutes on the radio with charging three-liter cans of water from radio sets. Well, even at our place, Grobovoi was slowed down when he went into politics, and in Kiev, easily and naturally, Lenya Cosmos became the mayor of the CAPITAL! This is who you need to be, how to soften your own brain yourself, so that an African who came to Ukraine to study, declares himself and becomes a messenger of God on earth for them, so much so that he dragged his follower to the mayors of the CAPITAL! wassat
        1. Maverick78
          Maverick78 26 November 2017 00: 33 New
          +2
          Not a nigga brought Lenya in action. Lenya is a fairly wealthy creature. It’s just that with the help of a niger such as Lenya, they mowed real money from gullible suckers. And then they were introduced as victims. But the impact on the psyche really is the strongest and most of the population is not able to withstand it from nature. Well, remember your 90s ... yes yes no yes and so on.
    5. Lganhi
      Lganhi 26 November 2017 01: 03 New
      +2
      Again, sit and wait for Russia to flood you with money? Do you want a cookie with butter? Themselves brewed this porridge, and dissolve yourself.
  8. Varyag77
    Varyag77 25 November 2017 08: 59 New
    +6
    Dear authors. The history of Ukrainian (we will call them so for ease of perception) Russophobia has much more ancient roots that go back, as they say, into the darkness of centuries. She grew a millennium. Why do I think so? I will try to answer.
    In fact, the answers lie on the surface. They are in the sources. It is only necessary to look at them through the prism of "fraternal peoples" and "we have one great history." So. that our saint says, holy PVL. (I won’t insert quotes, because I don’t see the point. Educated people will definitely understand what is being said. And who does not know there is a reason to look into the PVL). And in the PVL it is said that Oleg came with his son Rurik Igor and the Vikings to Kiev. He killed the local princes Askold and Dir, and put Igor on the Kiev table. While Igor did not grow rules Oleg. What else is said? And it is said that the meadow paid tribute to the Khazars. This is where the first foundation stone of Russophobia lies. You just need to read between the lines. After all, they describe to us nothing more than, in modern terms, a change in the elite. Polyanskaya (or Polyanskoy-Khazar) was replaced by the Varangian. Was this process quiet and peaceful? I very much doubt it. Most likely there were rivers of blood. Most were exterminated, someone escaped. And in the Kiev region a rather interesting society was formed. An analogue of England after the Norman conquest. That is, the Norman elite, ordinary people of the Saxons, Britons and other local tribes.
    We go further while the powerful Varangians are engaged in the annexation of land, but here we must also understand that they were not connected with cakes. That is, while the power was strong. A strong prince, a strong squad lowered below the baseboard, local tribes sit quieter than water below the grass. Glade is essentially a rather cowardly tribe. Researchers of the 19th century wrote that the people of Kiev are rather cowardly and do not keep their words. That is why, when Vladimir Monomakh planted a feudal fragmentation bomb, such a leapfrog began in the shift of the Kiev princes that you won’t understand without a glass. This characterizes Ukrainians very well. Cowardly, vile. words not holding. Kievites behaved forgive God, forgive the Lord.
    Well, the second main stone of Ukrainian Russophobia is of course the transfer of the capital to Vladimir by Andrei Bogolyubsky. When Prince Andrey was tired of all this leapfrog with Kiev, he just took it and went to Vladimir. And having become the Grand Duke, he did not return to Kiev, but made his beloved city a capital city. And what followed then? After all, everything seems to be written, but people do not want to think and analyze. And what followed was the fact that the elite, squad, court, merchants, clergy moved from Kiev to Vladimir. Ordinary people reached Vladimir lands. What did this mean for Kiev ?. Only one. Political power is gone. Finances are gone. Trade flows are gone. Kiev became just a backwater in the steppe and nothing more. This is where wide Ukrainian lads climbed out of all the cracks. Most likely recalling how the newly arrived Varangians-northerners drank their blood. They were echoed by the Polish-Ugric and Lithuanian emissaries, who had long ago enmeshed western and southern Russia with their network. And then Russophobia bloomed in a double color. Naturally, the "Russians" were blamed for the impoverishment of the "Ukrainian lands." Hatred was certainly fueled by the capture of Kiev and almost complete destruction of it by Andrei Bogolyubsky. All these events fell into the cup of Russophobia drop by drop filling it to the brim. Well, what happened next? And then there was the Horde invasion. Although to be honest, I have my own theory of those events, which fits very well into the general course of history and continues the issue of “Ukrainian Russophobia.” If my colleagues are interested, I will share my thoughts, because honestly, the theory turned out to be quite bold.
    1. Winnie76
      Winnie76 25 November 2017 11: 57 New
      0
      Quote: Varyag77
      If colleagues will be interested, then share my thoughts.

      Colleagues are interested
      1. Varyag77
        Varyag77 25 November 2017 12: 55 New
        +3
        Quote: Winnie76
        Quote: Varyag77
        If colleagues will be interested, then share my thoughts.

        Colleagues are interested


        Well, if it's interesting, let's get started. I want to say right away that this is only the backbone. more thorough research is needed, but in general terms, the process in my head drew itself and actually looks pretty logical. moreover, which is important. this theory almost completely removes questions to official history regarding a certain “Mongol-Tatar yoke”.
        So. the background of this phenomenon is briefly stated above. Now, I will take the liberty of asserting that the "Mongol-Tatar yoke" was covered up ... well, let's call it the Civil War. Who with whom? South and West Russian principalities (for brevity we will call Ukraine) and North Russian principalities (we will call Russia).
        We approached the beginning of the invasion with the thought that Ukraine harbored a big grudge against Russia. Kiev was unsuccessful. The lands of Ukraine began to get poorer and lose their influence. At the same time, there was a process of Western intervention, the purpose of which was obvious. The West (and in those days it is certainly Poland, ON and partially Hungary) needed to "squeeze" this land for itself. To do this, it was necessary to set the inhabitants of Ukraine against Russia. It was necessary to impose on them the system of their values, religion and naturally blame Russia for everything. Isn't that familiar? This intelligence work laid on fertile soil. Ukrainians themselves did not have great love for the Russians. why look above. As a result, all this translates into preparation for the first in the history of Drang nah Osten. who does not know the "onslaught to the east." Then a very interesting event occurs. Battle of Kalka. There are a lot of questions for this battle. I suppose that this battle was either fictitious at all (the venue was never found) or it was a preventive attempt by Russia to disrupt the Polish-Lithuanian-Ukrainian invasion. The Vladimir prince could well agree with the steppes (Polovtsy is this or someone else is not important. I personally think that it is the Crimean Tatars)) to carry out a raid on Ukraine in order to distract those from going to Russia. The Ukrainians found out about this and moved forward. (Who doesn’t know, I report that only the Ukrainian troops participated in the battle on Kalka. There were no Russian troops.) The battle for Ukraine was terrible. Their army was defeated. Only one in ten returned home as the annals write. And here, please, a bunch of oddities from an official story begins. Tatars leave Kalka and disappear for 14 years. Well is not it strange? And why wouldn’t they return and already with a large army to move to Russia? of.history does not give an answer. I give. These same 14 years Ukraine needed in order to restore human resources. What would the children grow up. Because after a terrible defeat on Kalka, there was no question of any campaign against the damned Russians. Well, 14 years pass and the first invasion of Russia takes place. And here again the question arises. and why actually the Mongol-Tatars went precisely (this is important) to RUSSIA. Only on her. In the first campaign of the Batu Tatars go exclusively in northeastern Russia. Well, why would suddenly? Ate 14 years ago the Tatars defeated Ukrainian troops on Kalka. They had many prisoners, including princes. They, in every way, found out what principalities they were from, how to get there, what their lands were. And now, after 14 years, the Tatars why they are not going to steppe Ukraine, which they already know more or less about. They damn go to the forests and swamps of northeastern Russia. In those parts of which they know nothing. I believe that the first campaign of Batu is nothing more than an invasion of Russian Polish-Ukrainian-Lithuanian troops with the support of the steppes. most likely Polovtsy with whom the South Russian princes had close relations, including dynastic marriages. That's it. Such an interpretation explains absolutely everything. And how the Tatars came. and how they found our cities. and as a matter of fact the army consisting of light cavalry by storm as soon as possible took Russian fortress cities. How masterfully the "Tatars" came to Sit, having found the camp of the Grand Duke in an absolutely unfamiliar country. Why do the warriors on both sides look the same in the surviving images. It’s easy to explain all this if you replace the Tatars with Urains in a compartment with the Poles. Ukrainians knew Russia well. however mercantile and some kindred ties were. They have been to our cities. They all knew. By the way, the moment with Novgorod is perfectly revealed here. Tatars did not take him. Well, of. History gives out frank nonsense on this issue. Tatars walking literally skating rink in Russia did not dare to go to Novgorod? Brad. My theory suggests that Novgorod was not taken because the "Western partners" in the person of the Teutonic Order and maybe the king of Sweden quickly said all this Polish-Lithuanian-Ukrainian brotherhood STOP. Pskov and Novgorod are OUR. WE have looked after them for ourselves.
        Well and accordingly, in order not to stretch the story, we take the second campaign of Batu. And there, surprisingly, only Ukrainian cities + Europe. Well, everything seems to be clear already. This is the Russian answer to the Ukrainians. Entire Ukraine is completely ruined + the Galicia-Volyn principality + invasion of Europe where this very European army is defeated. Well, the Russians have it in their blood. Hand out earrings to all sisters. As a result, they raked everything. and Poles and Ukrainians and Teutons. Here's something like that in short. As for some nomads, most likely the Polovtsy were on the side of the Ukrainians. Crimean Tatars are possible on the side of Russia. By the way, we will see this union in the future.
        Now the main question. And why did someone replace the Ukrainians with the Mongol-Tatars? And most importantly, when? I have an answer here too. It happened in the era of Ivan the Terrible. Ivan’s mother, Elena Glinskaya, was an extremely cruel woman, apparently, and was very eager for power. Ivan's father dies a rather strange death. Glinskaya essentially carries out a coup and crushes power in Russia under her clan. And her clan is Polish-Lithuanian-Ukrainian Russophobia. Is that a coincidence? And strangely enough, it was in the 16th century that the term "Mongol-Tatar yoke" came to light through the efforts of a Pole (again, it’s not strange). And I believe that it was during Glinskaya that the extinction of information about the Russian-Ukrainian war began. replacing the invaders with some Tatars. And this was done in order to give legitimacy to their power. The power of his clan. so that they would not be looked upon as blood relatives to those who had devastated 200 years ago on Russian lands. What could they say. That they are not at all descendants of the conquerors who came to Russia with a sword. they are very savior. And the substitution has occurred. But this is bad luck. Ivan the Terrible showed character and began to rule on his own, not paying attention to all this P-L-U kodla rubbing near the throne. Hence the oprichnina. hence the king’s many oddities. Unfortunately, the great king did not hold Russia for long. While he ruled everything was fine. how he died began what everyone knows. Troubles. Its result was the accession to the throne of the same pro-Western clan of the Romanovs, who finally cleaned up the sources and most importantly put the last Rurikovich as the quintessence of evil. Something like that. Confused, but in a different way.
        1. Maverick78
          Maverick78 25 November 2017 17: 36 New
          +1
          ON to Kalki? Crimean Tatars on Kalka? Do you want Bebika laurels? Do not be like Svidomo, there is nothing honorable in this. For the sake of interest, read the relationship between Chernigov and Kiev ... and Galichina in general was one of the muddy regions at that time ...
          1. Ulan
            Ulan 25 November 2017 23: 50 New
            +2
            I will add - "Ukrainians" on Kalka?
            1. domokl
              domokl 26 November 2017 07: 23 New
              0
              Hmm ... Excursion to nowhere. Mezhdunosobitsa Russian princes. And where is Ukraine? The conversation is not about the confrontation of Ukraine and Russia. Talk about educating Russophobes ... History can be interpreted in different ways. Especially in the current situation, when the story is known from the Internet, and not from historical sources.
  9. Scud
    Scud 25 November 2017 10: 17 New
    +8
    Not everything is so simple with Russophobia in our Hohland.
    As a rule, historians, political scientists, or just citizens speak out. But I don’t remember the psychologist’s comment on this or another topic. Only they can authoritatively assess Navalny, Sobchak, Klimkin, Gav.nopolsky.
    I had to communicate with both Ukrainians born in 30-40-50, and Russians who moved to dill in Soviet times. They did not even hear about Lototsky in their eyes, but their hatred for Russia went wild. As a rule, there are no arguments, only pathologically bulging eyes filled with anger and hysteria.
    If you adhere to the proverb, there is something good in every bad thing, then the collapse of Bandera dill (after the collapse of the USSR) is simply a fact, albeit an unpleasant one.
    I thank the Svidomo pan for their slogan-suitcase, the station Russia, and the Crimeans did not rest for a long time and took under the visor. God bless Little Russia will be reborn!
    1. domokl
      domokl 26 November 2017 07: 24 New
      0
      And you take a history textbook for high school or for the university and everything will fall into place.
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  11. savage1976
    savage1976 25 November 2017 10: 33 New
    +2
    Let them gnaw their throats on each other's health there, climb less to us .. They are no longer interesting in any way.
  12. AleBors
    AleBors 25 November 2017 10: 34 New
    +2
    There is nothing to add. It’s justified, with quotes .. And it’s already tired of that any “internationalist” is full of anger when you say that the UKR are not our brothers for a long time, and it's time to stop harboring illusions about this. This is evil, lazy. And you have to put up with it.
  13. Simon
    Simon 25 November 2017 10: 45 New
    +2
    Quote: ibirus
    The brotherhood of the republics ended in 1991. Everyone began to live independently. If someone thinks that in Ukraine everything will end and the Russian Federation will begin to help and give Ukraine gifts in a new way, then shish. You yourself decided your fate by doing nothing.

    All right, "friendship, friendship, and tobacco apart." There was a time, they lived well under the Union, and now let them think how to live!
  14. Simon
    Simon 25 November 2017 10: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: Dimka75
    Another article from the series "humiliated and offended." Great is Russia, and everything depends on Ukraine.

    Ukraine was a part of Russia, it lived well, but now let it live without Russia itself, so that they understand that without Russia they can’t go anywhere. For Europe, Ukraine, as a stepson, but for Russia, it has always been a native.
  15. victorrat
    victorrat 25 November 2017 12: 51 New
    0
    But I did not know about this freak. He still believed that Lenin had muddied their heads with the help of Grushevsky who had warmed him. And then the irreplaceable help of Khrushchev. And here is where the legs grow from!
  16. silver169
    silver169 25 November 2017 12: 58 New
    +1
    Ah yes article! Well done authors, hit the nail on the head. Thank!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  17. Hlavaty
    Hlavaty 25 November 2017 13: 42 New
    +3
    Why smear shit all the people?!?!
    We see a rapid change in the essence of the Ukrainians themselves. The revival of the most vile and most disgusting trait is the betrayal of any ally exactly when the union ceases to pay dividends to Ukraine and Ukrainians.

    The author writes about all Ukrainians? About all 25-35 millions? Maybe it's time to grow up and not engage in such adolescent generalizations?
    After all, if you go the same way and, remembering the Russian antiheroes, and make generalizations regarding the Russians, how many indignant comments will be here?
    1. Ulan
      Ulan 25 November 2017 23: 54 New
      +5
      Here I will support you. All people cannot be scoundrels and traitors. I do not believe.
      The fact is that part of the people, which are scoundrels and traitors, even a smaller part, can crush the rest for themselves. I believe in it. Isn’t it like that in the nineties?
    2. domokl
      domokl 26 November 2017 07: 29 New
      +2
      Quote: Hlavaty
      The author writes about all Ukrainians? About all 25-35 millions? Maybe it's time to grow up and not engage in such adolescent generalizations?

      It is time. The old ones are leaving. Those who retain their Sovietness are leaving. But those who are now at the most active age are no longer aware of fraternity. They are brought up on such textbooks. And their hatred for Russians is not showy. This is precisely hate, not posture.
      And the most disgusting thing is that the parents of these mankurts cannot change anything. Or do not want ...
      1. Maverick78
        Maverick78 26 November 2017 08: 05 New
        +2
        I learned about this textbook from an article. None of my friends studied at it. The problem is different. For many years, the field of education, especially history, has been given to the nationalists. And they just a little bit brought up a small but active amount of freaks hating their history. And these received state support under ALL presidents. But before the second Maidan they were not particularly visible. The same is with journalism. .. the vast majority are pro-Western.
  18. polpot
    polpot 25 November 2017 14: 43 New
    +1
    Thinking up history is a constant process, then Trotsky is a genius, then a villain, now Batman’s grandfather from a comic book, it’s ours, Muscovites are to blame for everything; well, not Americans and Jews are to blame, they are sponsors, wait soon the Poles, Hungarians and all kinds of Turks will become villains before heaps for obvious reasons, if C 400 is purchased, the power will change and history will change.
  19. tezey
    tezey 25 November 2017 15: 19 New
    +3
    I do not quite agree with the conclusions of the author. Speaking about the stone, which is laid in the souls of Ukrainian children from an early age, namely the history of Lototsky, the author exaggerates the intellect of both children and their teachers. These creations are for today's Ukrainian children and for those who are older than tedious and worthless reading. They do not know anything and do not want to know about their history. To the question of who Bogdan Khmelnitsky is, in most cases from children and who are older than an intelligible answer will not follow. The main teacher of the kids is the Internet and TV. We have the same in the Russian Federation. Therefore, all Russophobia in Ukraine is a modern product, modern watered technology. Hence the conclusion. And the answer must be given in the same field. Now about the terms. Actually, what kind of beast is the people of Ukraine. I personally do not know any common people in Ukraine. I know that Ukrainians, Russians, Tatars, Jews, Armenians, Bulgarians, Moldavians, Ruthenians, Hungarians, and other peoples live in Ukraine. So who do politicians and publicists mean when they say, the people of Ukraine. I suppose that we are talking about Ukrainians. Now the question is, what is the fraternal people. There is generally terrible uncertainty and confusion. Firstly, and what criteria make peoples fraternal, secondly what kind of peoples are our politicians talking about, thirdly, and what do people themselves consider as fraternal or not fraternal. I believe that the opinion of politicians and pseudo historians is different from the opinion of citizens themselves. Everything in Ukraine today is very ambiguous. Say we take the Jewish population. They that share about Ukrainian nationalist views, no matter how. They are what will turn into Ukrainians. Yes, never. I have a family of my second cousin living in Kiev. They are purely Russian in origin and belief. They are my brotherly people, of course. And some kind of Parasyuk, or Moseychuk. Of course not. They are enemies. I also have my aunt and cousins ​​and their families in Kharkov and Donetsk. They are definitely my brotherly people. And I do the same. My friends in Kramatorsk are the same brotherly people. And there are Russians and Ukrainians, and Jews. Therefore, it is not a matter of ethnic origin. Brotherhood is determined by the general attitude towards the vision of joint development in all spheres of life-culture, politics, economics, history, science, etc. Today, through the efforts of both Ukrainian politicians, mainly, and ours, the brotherhood of the peoples of Ukraine and Russia has been violated. It’s not they who suffer. Ordinary citizens of both Ukraine and Russia suffer. So, what is next. How long will all this go on. Probably a long time. But the issue is not at all the ethnic and historical differences between peoples. The point is the modern bourgeois development of Ukraine. It is the new bourgeoisie of Ukraine that needs nationalist ideology, and not the peoples of Ukraine. Otherwise, it is impossible for them to explain to their citizens why they took possession of property previously belonging to all the people. They explain the robbery of their people by the machinations of Russians. Well, for the time being, for the time being. Everything passes, the frenzy of nationalism will pass. Ultimately, being determines consciousness.
    1. domokl
      domokl 26 November 2017 07: 32 New
      +2
      Beautiful fairy tale. I wonder why the sons and grandsons of those who consider themselves Russian brothers in ATO? And even in punitive battalions? Why do “ordinary citizens” live quite normally today? in spite of all the abomination, what is the current government doing? Moyahatscraya ... always ends like this. Children also fathers are transplanted. Not long left
    2. The comment was deleted.
  20. revnagan
    revnagan 25 November 2017 16: 50 New
    +3
    "Any sane person understands that the APU will never be stronger than the Russian army." (Cit.)
    Of course, it won’t. But the Wehrmacht in 1941 was not stronger than the Red Army. And if the Red Army gathered all its forces only in the Western direction, it is quite possible that Hitler would not attack at all. But! The forces of the Red Army were "spread" throughout the territory USSR! From the Turks and the British it was necessary to cover the Caucasus? From the Japanese, the Far East. And the Wehrmacht, occupying Europe, securing the rear and flanks, pulled 82% of forces, + "allies" to the borders of the USSR. What created the superiority in forces in a particular place to a specific time. What? As a result, did the Germans lose and Berlin fell? But at what cost? And this price will suit the West again and again. Therefore, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will increase their strike potential and improve their skills. And, remember my word, Ukraine will recreate nuclear weapons. Did the Budapest memorandum be "cheated"? They called it "a meaningless piece of paper"? So, nobody owed anything to anyone. Everything has arrived. Putin is not eternal, besides. So, as the "daughters of Russian officers" like to say, not everything so unambiguously ... Will Ukraine have enough resources for the “long term”? Honestly, he knows. But if the “partners” support it, then enough. And someday Ukraine will decide that the time has come. And it will be a disaster. But it’s only one of the options for the development of events in the future. Moreover, it’s not the most real one. In general, we’ll wait and see.
  21. Varyag77
    Varyag77 25 November 2017 18: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: Maverick78
    ON to Kalki? Crimean Tatars on Kalka? Do you want Bebika laurels? Do not be like Svidomo, there is nothing honorable in this. For the sake of interest, read the relationship between Chernigov and Kiev ... and Galichina in general was one of the muddy regions at that time ...

    You see diagonally reading. Firstly said that version. Secondly, since the version is allowed in the form of a version, then of. The story here is not entirely appropriate. Not? And on and on the Crimean (and any other Tatars) you can talk almost endlessly. That is, as in that joke about the execution and the mausoleum, only the color of the mausoleum raised a question for you? Well, take off my hat. laughing
    1. Maverick78
      Maverick78 25 November 2017 20: 04 New
      +1
      I read it 2 (two) times, the first time I thought that I misunderstood ... this version is completely in the spirit of the New Ukrainian “historians”, it was not by chance that I mentioned Bebika. Alliances between the principalities were not concluded on a geographical basis. For example, in the army that destroyed Kiev there was a squad of the Vyshgorod prince. Vyshgorod near Kiev if that. You are right, you need to write too much, I'm too lazy, to be honest. I’ll say one more thing, I heard it in the net ... The slogans “Russia for Russians” and “Russia without Russians” have one sponsor. If at least one of them wins, you are finished.
  22. sxfRipper
    sxfRipper 25 November 2017 19: 05 New
    +1
    Enough about the "brotherly people" ... Recently I found out that the Chinese have no concept of BROTHERS. There is an older brother and there is a younger brother (and plural options). He scratched his turnip and realized that it was YES !!! Even the twins. But in the family it almost always works. But when the people are called fraternal, then a certain part of this people quite naturally raises the question - who is senior ???
  23. Varyag77
    Varyag77 25 November 2017 20: 38 New
    +2
    Quote: Maverick78
    I read it 2 (two) times, the first time I thought that I misunderstood ... this version is completely in the spirit of the New Ukrainian “historians”, it was not by chance that I mentioned Bebika. Alliances between the principalities were not concluded on a geographical basis. For example, in the army that destroyed Kiev there was a squad of the Vyshgorod prince. Vyshgorod near Kiev if that. You are right, you need to write too much, I'm too lazy, to be honest. I’ll say one more thing, I heard it in the net ... The slogans “Russia for Russians” and “Russia without Russians” have one sponsor. If at least one of them wins, you are finished.

    Well then do not read more. It’s bad for you. I realized that you know about the Mongol-Tatar period either at the level of the modern Ukrainian, or you don’t know at all. No problem actually. Nothing wrong. Just to chew on officer history as well, focusing attention on all its jambs, I'm too lazy. excuse me.
    1. Ulan
      Ulan 26 November 2017 00: 05 New
      +1
      Well, in your version, there are more stocks than in the official one.
      I am always amused by the claims that the Romanovs completely rewrote the story. Distorted, but possible, but completely rewritten? And what did they also “rewrite” European sources in the way they needed? With each European prince-king agreed or forced?
      Therefore, Fomenkovsky tales are not interesting to me. Well, except in one way, that in history there are quite a lot of incomprehensible and poorly explained, but the fact that this is unexplained completely changes the entire history of Russia-Russia by 180 degrees, I definitely do not believe in it.
      And the fact that the miniature complex of weapons of the Russian and Mongol-Tatar warriors is similar to, I think Shpakovsky will professionally explain, there is no secret for those who are interested in the history of weapons, armor, uniforms.
      1. Nulgorod
        Nulgorod 26 November 2017 04: 28 New
        0
        Quote: Ulan
        but the fact that this is unexplained completely changes the entire history of Russia-Russia by 180 degrees, I definitely don’t believe in it.

        And what exactly is changing? That Russia was not a wild land inhabited by barbarians with no signs of statehood, but was the same medieval European country? And her greatness was determined by vast and rich territories? Is this a 180 degree turn?
        1. domokl
          domokl 26 November 2017 07: 38 New
          0
          Quote: Nulgorod
          That Russia was not a wild land inhabited by barbarians without signs of statehood, but was a similarly medieval European country?

          Now I will try on you. Dear experts, who will say what year is the Russian calendar today? not from the birth of Christ, but on the chronology of the Russians? Do not suffer. 7621!
          And the years of the life of the Russian princes are indicated exactly on this calendar. Think of the savagery of the Slavic tribes in the past. And to improve the thinking, look when all the Egyptians and Romans were ... Just for their own self-education ...
          1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Maverick78
      Maverick78 26 November 2017 01: 11 New
      0
      I know about this period at the level of an advanced Soviet schoolchild (I like the story), plus I read Solovyov (not a journalist) and some other authors. So you can’t chew me an official story. And I recommend Fomenko to check for kinship with our "historians", as for me the siblings
      1. Nulgorod
        Nulgorod 26 November 2017 04: 23 New
        +2
        I do not support such categoricalness. New chronology: this is, first and foremost, a theory. In many respects controversial, but it cannot be denied a logic and a systematic approach. You need to remember a simple thing: Fomenko is not a historian. He is a mathematician. The theory itself was born from a paradox discovered by an American astrophysicist. Fomenko found an unusual solution to this paradox, and it was not his fault that he (and not only) was carried away by what was discovered as a result. And, to be honest, "stuck" in it.
        I see no reason to look for his "kinship" with other rewriters of history. Everything is clear with them: they carry out a certain political order. Both this order and its objectives are clear. Fomenko is trying to restore the picture of history as it really was. The whole problem is that most historians do not want to work with him, rejecting the very foundation of his theory: a new chronology of events. And the efforts of his like-minded people are clearly not enough: too much work. So there are inconsistencies and contradictions (as in any historical treatise, by the way). And who doesn’t tend to make mistakes and be mistaken? Each has its own "cockroaches."
  24. Nonna
    Nonna 25 November 2017 20: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: Maverick78
    These are your "partners" have tried.


    It was your owners who tried, the current drivers of the Ukrainian "innocent" herd. Before that, you have a lot of bad. was, Yushchenko, then Yanyk, and then suddenly Russia. Donbass chose and paid hundreds of the lives of its people. And Svidomo redneck really thinks that someone will release them? Eat your shit yourself with a full spoon or until completely extinct. Eat - do not hang on.
    1. Ulan
      Ulan 26 November 2017 00: 06 New
      +2
      This is the same, I would also say, to any Svidomo Banderonatsyuk. But in my opinion there are no such on the forum.
    2. Maverick78
      Maverick78 26 November 2017 01: 20 New
      +1
      So your partners and the owners of our elite are the same people. Do you have Kuchma and Yanyk good? They both betrayed you. And you do not need to free me, they are just waiting for this from you.
  25. tank64rus
    tank64rus 25 November 2017 21: 26 New
    +1
    Now the war begins not in the trenches, but in the school and university corridors. Our bureaucrats do not want this, or they don’t understand it on purpose. The result is a performance by a young Untermensch in the Bundestag.
    1. Ulan
      Ulan 26 November 2017 00: 07 New
      +1
      Our bureaucrats are happy with everything.
  26. Normal ok
    Normal ok 25 November 2017 22: 01 New
    0
    Skomorokhov has a lot of good articles. But, here .... A stretch on a stretch.
  27. Lganhi
    Lganhi 26 November 2017 00: 55 New
    +1
    Even in the film "Only Old Men Are Going to Battle" smug Ukrainian swagger was seen when Vasil Bykov says that "In Ukraine, both the grass is greener and the sky is bluer." Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko and Gorbachev were Ukrainians, and indulged Ukrainian chauvinism in every possible way, subsidizing the budget of the Ukrainian SSR with billions of rubles, and calling the Ukrainian SSR “the breadbasket and the nurse of the Union”, although Ukraine was no nurse, it was a loss-making republic, that is, it consumed more than produced:
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 26 November 2017 01: 09 New
      +9
      Quote: Lgankhi
      In Ukraine, both the grass is greener and the sky bluer

      And someone here does not understand the jokes ... and did not serve, nirazu and nowhere .. either right now - "on a salary" ...
      Relax ... not your topic laughing
      1. Lganhi
        Lganhi 26 November 2017 01: 16 New
        +1
        That is, these horses, galloping with screeching "M ... ku on a dime!" and "Who the hell - that m ... eh!", joked too?
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 26 November 2017 02: 21 New
          +9
          To tell you who you are, or you yourself will understand?
          Quote: Lgankhi
          "Only old men go into battle" smug Ukrainian swagger was evident ...

          I repeat, a miracle - you are an eccentric, and there is no way to call.
          Sobsna, and all on this subject yes
          1. Lganhi
            Lganhi 26 November 2017 09: 31 New
            +1
            Well, of course, there’s nothing to object to, it only remains to insult the opponent like "You are all gay, I am only Dartanyan."
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 26 November 2017 12: 15 New
              +8
              Quote: Lgankhi
              Well, of course, there’s nothing to argue with

              There is nothing ... to object.
              You see how you see. With this and die, the campaign (all die).
              I see it differently.
              And I'm right. You are not.
              Just ...
              1. Lganhi
                Lganhi 26 November 2017 18: 11 New
                0
                Again, only pathos demagogy.
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. Varyag77
    Varyag77 26 November 2017 08: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: Ulan
    Well, in your version, there are more stocks than in the official one.
    I am always amused by the claims that the Romanovs completely rewrote the story. Distorted, but possible, but completely rewritten? And what did they also “rewrite” European sources in the way they needed? With each European prince-king agreed or forced?
    Therefore, Fomenkovsky tales are not interesting to me. Well, except in one way, that in history there are quite a lot of incomprehensible and poorly explained, but the fact that this is unexplained completely changes the entire history of Russia-Russia by 180 degrees, I definitely do not believe in it.
    And the fact that the miniature complex of weapons of the Russian and Mongol-Tatar warriors is similar to, I think Shpakovsky will professionally explain, there is no secret for those who are interested in the history of weapons, armor, uniforms.

    Well, I'll ask you too. Do you know the history well? I think not, because then you would see that I changed only 1 element in it. One of the participants. All. Other events are indicated exactly with the official history. Therefore, I think it was quite possible to make such a substitution.
    As for armor and more. This again from the category this fairy tale is good, start over. As soon as you explain to me (and a huge number of researchers) where the Mongols had so much iron for arming their huge army from, I will immediately begin to listen carefully to you. So far, the official version of the Tatar-Mongol invasion looks no less fantastic than mine. And all new versions of these events are born solely due to the fact that the existing official history does not sustain any criticism.
    Personally, I will not undertake to say that everything was exactly as I supposed, but certainly my version is not so impossible. I repeat, there are no distortions, except for the participants. Everything else in it is well-known facts that are used in official history. Just
    1. Tula gingerbread
      Tula gingerbread 27 November 2017 15: 41 New
      +1
      Interesting. Then, too, the question is, where did the Rus have so much iron? Or the Vikings? Do they have steel mills?
      You still remember the ancient Greeks in order to make bronze and armor from it, Yu also probably needed some blacksmithing and foundry. Your question is not from knowledge. Ulan is right.
  30. Varyag77
    Varyag77 26 November 2017 08: 48 New
    +2
    Quote: Maverick78
    I know about this period at the level of an advanced Soviet schoolchild (I like the story), plus I read Solovyov (not a journalist) and some other authors. So you can’t chew me an official story. And I recommend Fomenko to check for kinship with our "historians", as for me the siblings

    Good. Soviet schoolboy is a good schoolboy. I agree. Well then, everything is simpler. Answer really the story of Iga, which is not questionable? Seriously? Of course, while studying at school (especially Soviet), we believed that all that was told to us was the ultimate truth. And then suddenly we start to find out that there are a bunch of researchers who are insolent and dare to ask any uncomfortable questions. And of.of the historians all these doctors and candidates for some reason cannot give clear answers. And they prefer to answer in the style of himself. And these enthusiastic researchers continue and continue to dig. And they just find monstrous oddities, but the off-story stands its ground. Already on their fingers they prove the complete delirium of what is accepted as an axiom, but like peas on a wall.
    I do not want to consider all these inconsistencies in this thread. The topic is not about that. There will be a topic about Igo there and we will discuss. Here is a topic about Ukrainian Russophobia. And I express my opinion. And it is. Russophobia in Ukraine is 1000 years old. that's all. I declare that Ukrainians have never experienced any brotherly feelings for Russians. NEVER. All this stupid "fraternity" was instilled in us during the USSR period. We are Russian D-students, all of this was carried out with great pleasure. That's just our "brothers" treated us not at all fraternally. And I also argue that there is an explanation for this state of affairs. Very simple. And for this it is necessary to know even the official history. everything is written in it too. Without any conspiracy theories. And the mistake of the Russians lies in the fact that we decided that the "Russian world" passes along the western borders of Ukraine and Belarus. But in fact, it passes along the western border of Russia itself. And neither the Ukrainians nor the Belarusians are not our brothers. And they never were. At some stage in history, we walked along the same road together. That's all. Therefore, do not sing these mantras about "brotherhood." Having good neighborly relations and respect for each other is enough
    1. Lganhi
      Lganhi 26 November 2017 09: 39 New
      0
      I fully support. The Germans and the British, for example, the brotherly Germanic peoples, it is the tribes of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians who created the modern English people, but the Germans and the British were never allies and brothers, the Germans and the British always hated each other and fought among themselves. Take the same Danes and Germans, Germans and Austrians, Danes and Swedes, Swedes and Norwegians - this is essentially the same people, the difference between Danish and German, Danish and Swedish, Swedish and Norwegian, is less than the difference between Ukrainian and Russian tongue. The Ukrainian language, by the way, is much closer to the Polish language in terms of the abundance of Polish borrowings and in the abundance of sounds "g" and "u". So it is necessary to discard the myth of "fraternity" of Ukrainians and Russians for a long time. This is bad for us.
      1. lesnik1978
        lesnik1978 26 November 2017 13: 00 New
        0
        Modern Ukrainian and Belarusian languages ​​were written by Russophobes and Poleophiles (especially Belarusian)
      2. The comment was deleted.
  31. Varyag77
    Varyag77 26 November 2017 11: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Ulan
    I will add - "Ukrainians" on Kalka?

    And a reader and a reaper, and a dude on a pipe. Apparently they wrote a clever type of comment, yes? And the fact that I wrote that for simplification we will call the South Russian principalities Ukrainians this could not master your brain?
  32. Varyag77
    Varyag77 26 November 2017 12: 00 New
    +2
    Quote: domokl
    Hmm ... Excursion to nowhere. Mezhdunosobitsa Russian princes. And where is Ukraine? The conversation is not about the confrontation of Ukraine and Russia. Talk about educating Russophobes ... History can be interpreted in different ways. Especially in the current situation, when the story is known from the Internet, and not from historical sources.

    Domocles. Well, where are you my friend? Well, do you see the outline of the conversation? no? Theme of Ukrainian Russophobia. Most here consider that its origins lie in 91, after the collapse of the Union. I’m trying to draw attention to the fact that the origins of this very Russophobia lie in the sooooo distant past. And I affirm that even knowing the official history, without resorting to any alternative versions, we can draw an unambiguous conclusion that the so-called Ukrainians never. NEVER experienced not only love and fraternal feelings for the Russians, but even simple sympathy or respect. Do you understand? Not from the age of 91, but throughout the entire thousand-year history we know. And these reasons, again lie on the surface. And for their understanding, one does not have to be a fan of Fomenko and company. You just need to think, analyze and know a little more than what is written in the history textbook for grade 4. After all, everything is written in the official history. In the canonical, I would say. You just need to understand literally what is written and discard the ideological husk and speculation that official scholars allow themselves to. All. Nothing more is needed. But usually it’s so difficult. Forcing your brain to think and analyze the task for these times is simply unrealistic. As for my version of Iga, I wrote that this is only a version. and quite crude. Although the whole version consists in changing one of the parties to the conflict. All events are strictly according to canonical history. and everyone can check it. And some commentators here cling to frankly nonsense. Yes, there was no ON during Kalka, it was just Lithuania, but before the ON turned on, there were literally a couple of decades. A man gets to the bottom of what I called Ukrainians on Kalka, but does not see at all what I wrote before.
    And I briefly and very much on my knee explain to you that in the pre-Mongol period there was no love between Ukrainians and Russians, nor in the post-Mongol one. Did not Ukrainians (and Belarusians, too) go as part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania to Russia? went. How many Russia has fought with the ON? Let's not hide behind the acronym ON. This, after all, includes the lands and people of Ukraine and Belarus, didn’t the Ukrainians, together with the Poles, come to Russia in troubled times? Didn't they rob and burn like the Poles? It was? It was. Didn’t we see the Ukrainians who joined the Swedes under Peter? have seen. Did Napoleon not negotiate with the Cossacks? led. Is it that the Ukrainians jumped out of Russian embrace into World War I as soon as the revolution took place? jumped out. Is there during the war there were no Ukrainian legions of the SS, UNA-UPA and other Bandera? It was. Didn’t this Bandera rabble drive after the war until the end of the fifties? They drove. The whole history of Ukraine is a betrayal of the Russians. All. And do not close your eyes to it. We have never been brothers. For the whole story.
    1. Maverick78
      Maverick78 26 November 2017 13: 16 New
      0
      The ON included also the lands now included in the Russian Federation, their population also fought. In troubled times, only Poles and Ukrainians were involved in garbage? Maybe we’ll calculate how many Ukrainians came with the Poles, but how many type of Russians were boiling water? And we will count how many sided with the Swedes, and how many did not stand. And after the First World War, there were more Ukrainians in the ranks of the red and white movements than there were independents. Well, and so on ... with this logic, I can write you into traitors, in that you had Putin at the helm of your merit 0, and if there were some kind of Chubais, Russia would no longer exist, and would be drowned now for free Urals and free Siberia. After all, are there such people in Russia? So you are all like that. Good logic?
  33. Varyag77
    Varyag77 26 November 2017 13: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: Maverick78
    The ON included also the lands now included in the Russian Federation, their population also fought. In troubled times, only Poles and Ukrainians were involved in garbage? Maybe we’ll calculate how many Ukrainians came with the Poles, but how many type of Russians were boiling water? And we will count how many sided with the Swedes, and how many did not stand. And after the First World War, there were more Ukrainians in the ranks of the red and white movements than there were independents. Well, and so on ... with this logic, I can write you into traitors, in that you had Putin at the helm of your merit 0, and if there were some kind of Chubais, Russia would no longer exist, and would be drowned now for free Urals and free Siberia. After all, are there such people in Russia? So you are all like that. Good logic?

    But we are not talking about ourselves. And about the territory of modern Ukraine. And about Chubais it is true, that is how it would be. Or God forbid it will be. but in this thread we are talking about a lying, always betraying, greedy and lazy people, which for some reason many of my compatriots, because of their eternal Russian kindness, call brotherly. And these little brothers have already given us nap. And we all bleat about "it's the brothers" "everything will pass" and other nonsense.
    My assessment of the "brothers" is based on a knowledge of history and personal experience since childhood. therefore, I never, under any circumstances, with ... well, let him be Ukrainian, I won’t sit in something in one field.
    I don’t even want to talk about what the people are talking about Ukrainians, about what famous people wrote about them.
    People do not deceive.
    And I really hope that the disease called "brotherhood" will pass. Neither Ukrainians nor Belarusians are any brothers to us. I already said that, but I repeat. And relations with these peoples must be built on the basis of good neighborliness, mutual benefit and respect for each other. I end on this debate, for pouring from empty to empty is not interesting.
    1. Nulgorod
      Nulgorod 26 November 2017 15: 03 New
      0
      There is an objection.
      Quote: Varyag77
      Neither Ukrainians nor Belarusians are any brothers to us

      So one could say about anyone, but not about them. Fraternal bonds are not only psychological. It is also a consanguinity. How close are they to us by blood? How many centuries have we lived side by side? How deep have we penetrated each other? It is important. How much did we survive together? How many difficulties did you overcome? Just take it and give it all up? After all, this is exactly what our enemies seek: Divide and conquer. Do not burn bridges, do not break the threads. It’s easy to destroy, but restoration may not work.
  34. Varyag77
    Varyag77 26 November 2017 20: 33 New
    +2
    Quote: Nulgorod
    There is an objection.
    Quote: Varyag77
    Neither Ukrainians nor Belarusians are any brothers to us

    So one could say about anyone, but not about them. Fraternal bonds are not only psychological. It is also a consanguinity. How close are they to us by blood? How many centuries have we lived side by side? How deep have we penetrated each other? It is important. How much did we survive together? How many difficulties did you overcome? Just take it and give it all up? After all, this is exactly what our enemies seek: Divide and conquer. Do not burn bridges, do not break the threads. It’s easy to destroy, but restoration may not work.

    There are some blood ties. it is indisputable. And how many centuries have we lived side by side? You do not know? I advise you to study. great surprise. I guarantee. The difficulties are the same. If you are about the Great Patriotic, this is undeniable. on the scale of history is an instant. About penetration into each other, I do not know what you mean. if about something personal .. well, congratulations. wink All that you call "our enemies seek" perfectly lays on the fertile soil already cultivated in these gardens. and it grew by no means 25 years. I repeat, read the story. Probably for people like you it will be a surprise to know that Kiev only became a Russian again in the 17th century. understand in the 17th century. if we drop the period of the presence of the Varangians-Rus in Kiev from the time Oleg came to the transfer of the capital to Vladimir in the 12th century, we will find that from the middle of the 12th to the 17th century, all Ukraine lived on its own, in isolation from Russia, and this is almost 5 centuries . understand or not? For more than 400 years, Ukraine was simply an incomprehensible wild field on which these loafers could not build anything, create anything. And moreover, having become part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and, after the Commonwealth, they were our enemies. Do you understand it or not? Enemies who went to Russia to rob, burn and kill. And having become part of Russia, they remained raguli with pots on their heads. Not blazing any love for Russians. This is what the Uzbeks added to Ukraine. there was no difference. What they do not like do not respect what these are. So what are you talking about? Even in the Russian Empire, they were very cautious about Ukraine. And almost no family ties. They cooked there on their farms, and those who did not want to work those with sabers rode across the steppe. Cossacks were played. Whoever pays the most or privileges will pour it to him and serve. All this kinship went with the union. Yes, they fell in love and got married. Well, nothing of this will pass either. The entire Internet is full of info about the remaining relatives in the ruin. the picture is clear as they say.
    1. Nulgorod
      Nulgorod 26 November 2017 21: 50 New
      0
      By this logic, you can abandon any nationality that now lives on the territory of Russia. And more precisely: in their ancestral territories, annexed to Russia at different stages of existence. There are more than 100 of them. Let's drive Tatars and Chuvash from the Russian Federation, for example. There are certain and not too old accounts of the Tatars. And to this day, I have not heard at least something good about the Chuvash from my grandmother (she is Russian, but originally from there), so I definitely will not help kissing them. Should I distance myself from them? Should all Russians boycott them or interfere with the mud?
      Well, let's fantasize:
      We have a problem: Some nationalities cause hostility in the titular nation, and that, in turn, annoys these nationalities. Okay, let's push them away, we won’t create internal conflicts. True, they will demand to preserve their original territories ... There are two options: to give or not to give. If you don’t give it away, then in any way there will be a conflict, which can be resolved in only one way: by genocide of the unwanted with the subsequent settlement of the titular nation. Do you approve of such a decision?
  35. Varyag77
    Varyag77 26 November 2017 23: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: Nulgorod
    By this logic, you can abandon any nationality that now lives on the territory of Russia. And more precisely: in their ancestral territories, annexed to Russia at different stages of existence. There are more than 100 of them. Let's drive Tatars and Chuvash from the Russian Federation, for example. There are certain and not too old accounts of the Tatars. And to this day, I have not heard at least something good about the Chuvash from my grandmother (she is Russian, but originally from there), so I definitely will not help kissing them. Should I distance myself from them? Should all Russians boycott them or interfere with the mud?
    Well, let's fantasize:
    We have a problem: Some nationalities cause hostility in the titular nation, and that, in turn, annoys these nationalities. Okay, let's push them away, we won’t create internal conflicts. True, they will demand to preserve their original territories ... There are two options: to give or not to give. If you don’t give it away, then in any way there will be a conflict, which can be resolved in only one way: by genocide of the unwanted with the subsequent settlement of the titular nation. Do you approve of such a decision?

    You are now giving an incorrect example. The peoples within our country are the peoples within OUR country. We live with them already in order. with the same Tatars 500 years together. continuously. So here is a little different. BUT this can also change. The national question is the atomic bomb, which the Communists threw under the foundation of Russia. God forbid she will explode. And personally, I have no illusions about this. If a gun hangs on a wall, it will certainly fire. And the national question, since you already spoke in Russia, is very serious, it's just that its solution is constantly pushed aside. Touching is dangerous, but not touching is even more dangerous.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  36. VladGashek
    VladGashek 27 November 2017 21: 23 New
    0
    And yet, do not go deep into hoary antiquity. The roots of the transformation must be sought in the Soviet period, especially 50-70 years. Khrushchev-Brezhnev policy contributed to the birth of nationalism in Ukraine. This was influenced by economic policy, sociocultural traditions of exalting the role of Ukrainians in Soviet history. I will cite an example from my fate: my father, an 18-year-old guy, went to the front, 3 wounded, war-torn character. And my chair dad: a Ukrainian, the foreman of the Red Army, was captured with the whole motorized regiment in 41, was released home in the fall and worked for Zaparozhstal before the liberation of Ukraine. He was not subjected to any repression and lived for 92 years. So throughout Ukraine - living in abundance and a wonderful climate. And in post-war Russia: famine, repression and other adversities.
  37. The comment was deleted.