Military Review

Passions around the MiG-29 Bulgarian Air Force strained to the limit

110
In Bulgaria, passions continue to boil around the MiG-29 aircraft repair and maintenance program. The Bulgarian pilots, who, as previously reported, refuse to sit at the helm of these fighters of the country's Air Force, claiming that the aircraft do not receive proper service and pose a danger in the implementation of flights, are adding degrees to the discussion of the topic.


Now the Bulgarian press writes that the prosecutor’s office summoned for questioning as a witness in the case of non-performance of the contract with the Russian company of the former President Rosen Plevneliev. The criminal case itself was initiated against the former Bulgarian Defense Minister Nikolai Nenchev, who is accused of disrupting the program for repairing MiG-29 fighters.

Passions around the MiG-29 Bulgarian Air Force strained to the limit


In July of this year, the current President of the Republic Rumen Radev was called as a witness in the case of repair (or rather the lack of repair) of the Bulgarian MiGs. Then, we recall, Radev said that the MiG-29 aircraft that are currently in service with the Bulgarian Air Force are “inappropriate.” According to the president of the country, it would be more expedient to consider the possibility of purchasing “more modern fighters”, for example, from Sweden.

The Bulgarian press recalls that the criminal case against the former head of the Defense Ministry Nenchev was instituted about a year ago. Nenchev is accused of having abused his official position and signed an agreement that caused damage to the treasury in the amount of about 4 million dollars. The agreement provided for the repair of MiG-29 aircraft by one of the Polish companies. This company and overestimated the total estimate of repair work, to which Nenchev eventually agreed.

Now in Bulgaria they say that they can purchase more than 1,2 thousand of parts of MiG-29 aircraft (including 20 engines) from Hungary for the repair of fighters in service with the country's air force.
Photos used:
Wikipedia
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  1. andrewkor
    andrewkor 8 November 2017 13: 40 New
    19
    Not a single bolt to NATO "little brothers"!
    1. Jedi
      Jedi 8 November 2017 13: 41 New
      11
      Quote: andrewkor
      Not a single bolt to NATO "little brothers"!

      So they are going to stock up on spare parts at NATO Hungary:
      Now in Bulgaria they say that they can purchase more than 1,2 thousand of parts of MiG-29 aircraft (including 20 engines) from Hungary for the repair of fighters in service with the country's air force.
      1. Anarchist
        Anarchist 8 November 2017 13: 46 New
        19
        Max, These are just screams that not a single bolt, not a single Bolt ... How many will order, So much and put! Want with 400, Please! Let them only pay for the good of our military potential!
        I mean that it’s good! For our war industry ...
        1. Jedi
          Jedi 8 November 2017 13: 49 New
          +6
          If the Hungarians are going to buy - it means there is money. Moreover, Hungary arranges an auction, but they do not sell it at credit auctions.
          1. Tatyana
            Tatyana 8 November 2017 14: 18 New
            +3
            All the same, Bulgarian pilots on these planes will not fly - they will be afraid!
            This is an old "song" sang for a long time about the alleged disadvantage of repairing the MiG-29 by the Russian side. The contract for the repair of these Russian aircraft was terminated unilaterally by the Bulgarian side several years ago. That the Bulgarians, these Russian planes will be supposedly cheaper to repair the Poles.
            Ours objected to this because of the obvious loss of both the quality of repairs on the part of the Poles and the loss of due design reliability of the aircraft themselves. What hits the rating of these Russian aircraft in the international aviation market.
            Well, in general, the Poles, as the Russians said, Bulgarians "cheated" corruption! Presumably, not without the help of the CIA.
            Now all three countries (and even more - together with the USA and Switzerland) consider their loss-making profits! USA won again!
            1. Jedi
              Jedi 8 November 2017 14: 27 New
              +5
              Quote: Tatiana
              All the same, Bulgarian pilots on these planes will not fly - they will be afraid!

              According to the president of the country, it would be more expedient to consider the possibility of purchasing “more modern fighters,” for example, from Sweden.

              Then what's the point of making a fuss about the repair? Let the influenza be bought from the Swedes, and not arrange a public relations company.
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana 8 November 2017 14: 32 New
                +4
                Jedi
                Let the influenza be bought from the Swedes, and not arrange a public relations company.
                Bulgarians just don't have that kind of money! And the Swedes will simply not give their planes to leasing to the Bulgarians! This is not a "dumbass" to you - mother Russia!
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 8 November 2017 15: 34 New
              +3
              Quote: Tatiana
              Ours objected to this because of the obvious loss of both the quality of repairs on the part of the Poles and the loss of due design reliability of the aircraft themselves. What hits the rating of these Russian aircraft in the international aviation market.

              Ours didn’t just “object”, but bluntly stated that they were relieving themselves of responsibility for the MiG-29 repaired in Poland.
              RSK MiG warned that after repairing airplanes in Poland, they would consider them defective and "disclaim all responsibility for their continued operation."
            3. pytar
              pytar 8 November 2017 15: 40 New
              +1
              All the same, Bulgarian pilots on these planes will not fly - they will be afraid!

              Let's see if this is so or not ... And of course, the Bulgarian, like all pilots in the world, want to fly on new planes. The plans for updating the Air Force are provided, and money already exists.
              ... about the allegedly disadvantageous repair of the MiG-29 by the Russian side. The contract for the repair of these Russian aircraft was terminated unilaterally by the Bulgarian side .... Our objected ...

              Are you familiar with contracts? Unlikely. Can you confirm whether there is a contract at all? wink And what they write in the press, it is very often not justified.
              Well, in general, the Poles, as the Russians said, Bulgarians "cheated" corruption! Presumably, not without the help of the CIA.

              Corruption is always and prominently present in all countries of the world where there is state money. With or without the CIA, it's all the same. bully
              Now all three countries (and even more - together with the USA and Switzerland) consider their loss-making profits! USA won again!

              Can I be more specific? What are the loss profits? smile
              Tatyanaand outside the topic ... this is for you ... love
              1. karabas-barabas
                karabas-barabas 8 November 2017 19: 56 New
                0
                Quote: pytar
                Corruption is always and prominently present in all countries of the world where there is state money. With or without the CIA, it's all the same.

                Only in some places where corruption, and commonplace theft, has become the state basis and the bond, the mutual responsibility, where no one is responsible for it, the circus on TV and house arrests are not particularly scared of thieves. That is, where this rule is, and where the exception to the rule is.
                1. Nikolai Grek
                  Nikolai Grek 8 November 2017 20: 45 New
                  +4
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  Quote: pytar
                  Corruption is always and prominently present in all countries of the world where there is state money. With or without the CIA, it's all the same.

                  Only in some places where corruption, and commonplace theft, has become the state basis and the bond, the mutual responsibility, where no one is responsible for it, the circus on TV and house arrests are not particularly scared of thieves. That is, where this rule is, and where the exception to the rule is.

                  that's for sure!!! wink yes laughing laughing laughing

                  Thanks to the long-standing enemy of the scandalous billionaire - Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban - the Soros list has finally become public. On this list are deputies of the European Parliament who are lobbying for the financier’s projects and are changing EU legislation from its submission. A special point in the dossier on them is the attitude to Russia. It depends on him whether they are friends of Soros or enemies.
                  This is a voluminous document that collects information about 226 members of the European Parliament, which are ideological allies of the Open Society. They are supposed to be attracted to promote Soros’s favorite ideas - settling Europe in migrants, ensuring “gender equality”, legalizing same-sex marriages, rapprochement of Ukraine with the EU and, of course, Russia's opposition.

                  The Soros List finally gives an answer to the question that regularly pops up in disputes over EU policies - what makes the European authorities play against their own citizens and their interests? This answer is corruption. Politicians fed by Soros are successfully lobbying for his projects, and any attempts by country leaders to resist him run up against the resistance of their own elite.
                  https://vz.ru/world/2017/11/3/893647.html

                  we’ll see how many deputies will be imprisoned !!! wink lol lol lol
                  1. karabas-barabas
                    karabas-barabas 13 November 2017 02: 12 New
                    +1
                    Blah blah about Soros is not interesting to me, because there’s always one thing to check, and you wrote enough without special checks. It’s not rubbish at all, it’s Golikova’s speech in the State Duma, where she said that officials from the budget for the 2016th trillion “sleep wife” returned 9 billion, out of tens of thousands of UDs, they planted a dozen. That's all, that's a harsh reality, unlike fantasies about Soros.
                2. pytar
                  pytar 10 November 2017 11: 36 New
                  +1
                  Only in some places where corruption, and commonplace theft, has become the state basis and the bond, the mutual responsibility, where no one is responsible for it, the circus on TV and house arrests are not particularly scared of thieves. That is, where this rule is, and where the exception to the rule is.

                  I often listen to such opinions from Russians in relation to their authorities. And I myself often visit Russia. I see a lot of things. Corruption is in all countries of the world. Its manifestations are different.
                  1. karabas-barabas
                    karabas-barabas 13 November 2017 02: 15 New
                    +1
                    Corruption and theft are measured by specific amounts and correlate, why are these obscure excuses. In the Russian Federation, this has long been a tragedy and the reason that in the richest country in the world the majority of the population lives, to put it mildly, not very, I will not go into details.
                    1. pytar
                      pytar 13 November 2017 09: 49 New
                      +2
                      It is so. Class set. Corruption erodes society and is a form of warfare against its state.
              2. Cynic
                Cynic 12 November 2017 18: 17 New
                0
                Quote: pytar
                Are you familiar with contracts? Unlikely. Can you confirm whether there is a contract at all?

                Are you seriously?
            4. Orionvit
              Orionvit 8 November 2017 16: 59 New
              +1
              Quote: Tatiana
              All the same, Bulgarian pilots on these planes will not fly - they will be afraid!

              The main thing is that the ejection seat is trouble-free. Or do Bulgarian pilots not know about this? So, let them sit boldly in the cockpit. laughing
          2. pytar
            pytar 8 November 2017 15: 06 New
            +5
            Bulgaria actually has money. 5 consecutive years of steady growth in the economy and 23,1 billion euros of foreign exchange reserves (incl. 40 gold tone). GDP is growing from 1-2 billion euros each year. In 2017 it reached 50 billion euros, and in 2018 it should reach 52 billion euros. Bulgaria is one of the top three EU countries with the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio. It is below 30%. The budget for 2018 offers 750 million euros for defense. Until 2020, according to the plan for rearmament, at least 2,5 of a billion euros should be given. For many forum users, these numbers will come as a surprise, but fact is a fact. hi
            1. AID.S
              AID.S 8 November 2017 17: 06 New
              0
              Quote: pytar
              GDP is growing from 1-2 billion euros each year. AT

              This is not the amount of subsidies from the European Union? Can’t you either master or plunder them? laughing
              1. pytar
                pytar 8 November 2017 17: 27 New
                +5
                You know, if there are people who steal! And in the BG and in the Russian Federation! And this is not "we" and not "you", but specific individuals. They do not write comments on the forum here. laughing
            2. Orionvit
              Orionvit 8 November 2017 17: 06 New
              +1
              Quote: pytar
              5 consecutive years of steady growth in economies

              In Ukraine, too, for four years now, as an unprecedented "growth" of the economy. laughing As Europe got involved, so did growth immediately. In Bulgaria, many new, competitive enterprises have been built that can plug the very same Germany? Maybe they found oil, or a gold mine? Or maybe all the same "growth" of the economy as in Ukraine, due to handouts from Europe? I recall that Bulgaria, where the standard of living was much higher than in the Union, when the Bulgarians were considered brothers, and what have you come to?
              1. pytar
                pytar 8 November 2017 17: 50 New
                +4
                I don’t know how in Ukraine. I know how in Bulgaria. The growth did not immediately work out, of course. And much more needs to be improved on the issue. Shut up, someone else's belt we do not have as a goal. We do not intend to be an "example for all progressive humanity." laughing I will not go into details, but I will give such a fact: Bulgaria 5 for several years in a row has been increasing export of products from 11%. In 2016, exports reached 23,6 billion. evra! Until six months of 2017, - 12,5 billion euros. This is a record in the whole history of Bulgaria! The production and export of electrical media and electronics are growing at the fastest pace. By the way, in Bulgaria there are considerable finds of copper ore. Bulgarian products are mainly sold in the EU, and throughout the world. You know ... I am not a supporter of the EU. From the word at all! But I must recognize that EU membership has certain advantages. During socialism, Bulgaria 3 times sunk into bankruptcy! You do not know the facts. Whatever it was, it is "you" that has destroyed socialism and our brotherhood! It all started from you. Socialism is already dead. What can I say...? Amen. hi
                1. Orionvit
                  Orionvit 8 November 2017 18: 40 New
                  0
                  Well, try hard. I just wonder what kind of super electronics is produced in Bulgaria?
                  Whatever it was, it is "you" that has destroyed socialism and our brotherhood!
                  Of course, no one else was to blame when they were fed at the expense of the USSR, it was normal. Now, only the Serbs remained, at least in words, for which they respect and respect. The rest of the "bros", and will look for the "extreme", and hang out, like .... about in the hole.
                  1. pytar
                    pytar 8 November 2017 18: 51 New
                    +5
                    You want to see the whole range of electronics? I will be banned for such an advertisement! laughing
                    With such flawed logic, you will always dream of “enemies and traitors” alone. More work needs to be done with numbers and chronology. Then maybe you will understand where cause and where Investigation! This is not advice! This is a good wish! good And so, everyone can chat. drinks
                2. sogdy
                  sogdy 9 November 2017 06: 44 New
                  +1
                  Quote: pytar
                  . During socialism, Bulgaria 3 times went bankrupt! You do not know the facts.

                  Give a link to your sources.
                  I don’t understand what you mean.
                  1. pytar
                    pytar 9 November 2017 09: 46 New
                    +1
                    I have them and many of them, but in Bulgarian. I'm going to make material in Russian on their buzz. With facsimile from documents on occasions. A large number of facts have been gathered in my archives. It has been dealt with from the case. Todor Zhivkov is destined for children of criminal acts in the middle of the 90. Everything is documented. But it is unlikely that I publish on VO because of the aggressiveness and inadequacy in the reactions of some members of the forum. People do not want to know what and how. I got the impression that many are just looking for thorns to throw out their negativity.
                    1. sogdy
                      sogdy 9 November 2017 14: 38 New
                      0
                      Quote: pytar
                      but in Bulgarian

                      It will do.
                      Quote: pytar
                      due to the aggressiveness and inadequacy in the reactions of some members of the forum.

                      I understand them perfectly. Like the Bulgarians who remained with us “after perestroika”.
                      I do not understand your interpretation, for which I ask for links.
                      1. pytar
                        pytar 10 November 2017 11: 39 New
                        +1
                        I will answer when I prepare a article on the topic. I have it in my intentions, That's just a little free time ... request
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. pvv113
        pvv113 8 November 2017 14: 56 New
        +5
        Hi, Max! I don’t understand why the Bulgarians are racking their brains? Let them follow the example of Croatia in Ukraine wink
        1. cniza
          cniza 8 November 2017 15: 08 New
          +3
          Hi Vladimir! hi , Ukraine will help everyone.
          1. pvv113
            pvv113 8 November 2017 15: 32 New
            +3
            Hello Victor! I have no doubt about that. lol
        2. Orionvit
          Orionvit 8 November 2017 17: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: pvv113
          Let them follow the example of Croatia in Ukraine

          Let them repair it, only then they don’t take offense. For example, at the same MIGREMONT plant in Zaporozhye, there are no spare parts for a long time, and will never be. All units are simply disassembled, redecorated (just washed), then assembled, and please, the plane is like new, clean and beautiful.
          1. pvv113
            pvv113 8 November 2017 17: 24 New
            +2
            Here I am about the same thing - after the Ukrainian repair in Croatia, the Air Force was gone wink
    2. Separ DNR
      Separ DNR 8 November 2017 13: 44 New
      +8
      Quote: andrewkor
      Not a single bolt to NATO "little brothers"!

      Well, one big bolt, then, at least you can show?
      1. 79807420129
        79807420129 8 November 2017 14: 31 New
        +9
        Quote: Separ DNR
        Well, one big bolt, then, at least you can show?

        You can pick a colleague and more bolts. fellow hi
    3. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    4. x.andvlad
      x.andvlad 8 November 2017 13: 55 New
      +5
      It’s fun to read how “brothers in arms” from Nata “save” each other.
      The ridiculous and helpless throwing of the little brothers is due to the illusion of their independence and security. But by and large, why do they need aviation? In nature, they consult, and aviators from England and Spain arrive. Baltic Wasps are happy to the ears, and do not resent.
      1. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek 8 November 2017 15: 35 New
        +4
        Quote: x.andvlad
        and fly aviators from England with Spain.

        is not a fact!!! laughing laughing laughing
    5. Slovak
      Slovak 8 November 2017 14: 15 New
      +2
      they don’t look for easy ways, it’s important for them to repair NOT RUSSIAN, but anyone else
    6. siberalt
      siberalt 8 November 2017 14: 19 New
      0
      In-in. Let them repair each other's Russian fighters, but only who wants to fly them? bully
    7. papas-57
      papas-57 8 November 2017 15: 11 New
      +1
      Let them fly on NATO junk, there’s no money for new planes anyway.
      1. pytar
        pytar 8 November 2017 15: 47 New
        +1
        there is no money for new planes anyway.

        There is money. Enough for the repair of old MiG-ah, as well as for the purchase of new aircraft. The question is which is better !? Probably we will redeem the Gripenny with a new production in the most modern km-set. The issue should be resolved in 2018.
        1. papas-57
          papas-57 8 November 2017 21: 16 New
          +1
          If there was money, then why aircraft repair has not yet been made. And if the money appeared recently, then until 2018 they will not survive, they simply disappear.
          1. pytar
            pytar 8 November 2017 22: 14 New
            +1
            Yes, rewarded ... How much more can be repaired? We received them from 88 to 89, and before that they had been in operation for at least 3-5 years in the Soviet Air Force. This is the MiG-29 from the first series. For the last 15 years, the Armed Forces have been kept on a "starvation ration", since social programs were in priority. Well already decided that it’s time to do something with it! Technique is not eternal! Money did not appear suddenly. There is accumulation. The economy gives a good profit in the budget. There is a program for several years to come. Everything is calculated and everything will be fine.
            1. papas-57
              papas-57 9 November 2017 12: 39 New
              +1
              Do not make nonsense. If in time to repair and service, then they will fly for a long time. Examples of a wagon in the world. MiG-21, MiG-23, Su-24, V-52, Tu-95 fly and many more older aircraft than the MiG-29.
              1. pytar
                pytar 9 November 2017 12: 48 New
                +1
                I am not an aviation specialist. I quote the opinions of professionals. For me, the credibility of this topic is certain former Aviation Commander, I-class pilot Gen. Rumen Radev, now President of Bulgaria. MiG-29 is his favorite airplane. In view of the calculations back in 2015, he declares: "If it depended on me, I would buy new planes! Repair and support of Mig-29 until 2030 will cost us exactly as much as if we take new cars!"
                1. papas-57
                  papas-57 9 November 2017 17: 21 New
                  0
                  But until new planes are bought, old ones need to be maintained and repaired. And do not bring the aircraft to such a state that pilots are afraid to fly. You practically were left without aviation. And if tomorrow Russia attacks you. Dry the boards on the coffins. And the statement of your former commander-in-chief will begin, one thing is clear, he forgot to add to the cost of new aircraft the cost of their maintenance and repair until 2030. It is clear that it will be more expensive and much more. He divorced all of you like suckers, apparently a big amount of money will break off from this deal.
                  1. pytar
                    pytar 9 November 2017 20: 36 New
                    +1
                    But until new planes are bought, old ones need to be maintained and repaired.

                    That's what they do. Maintain and repair. The son of my cousin, he works there as an aircraft mechanic.
                    And do not bring the aircraft to such a state that pilots are afraid to fly.

                    I don’t know how real the pilots are afraid, but for sure that they are on strike for new planes!
                    You practically were left without aviation. And if tomorrow Russia attacks you. Dry the boards on the coffins.

                    Our current relationship with our neighbors is the best in history. And if tomorrow Russia attacks us, the day after tomorrow I will send you 3 boxes from the horse! laughing
                    ... your former commander in chief ... he forgot to add to the cost of new aircraft the cost of their maintenance and repair until 2030.

                    He is smart Man! good Forget nothing! He knows his work on 7!
                    He divorced all of you like suckers, apparently a big amount of money will break off from this deal.

                    Who are you? I do not believe you. But this man, I believe! He is the President of my country!
                    1. papas-57
                      papas-57 9 November 2017 22: 12 New
                      0
                      '' Bulgarian pilots add to the discussion of the topic, which, as previously reported, refuse to land at the helm of these country's air force fighters, saying that the aircraft do not undergo proper service and are dangerous when flying. '' This is about the strike of pilots, not a word about the new aircraft. About the attack on Bulgaria is a joke. And good relations between Russia and Bulgaria were only at the end of the 19th century, when you were freed from Turkey. And then, in gratitude, you fought two world wars against us. So, as the Ukrainians say, `` no you are not our brothers. '' And in NATO and the European Union, sit on, they apparently haven’t completely undressed you yet. Ordinary people may be well disposed towards Russia. but he is not building politics. But you choose the government. Overseas godfather will order and you will go to war with Russia for the third time, you will not go anywhere.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. pytar
                        pytar 10 November 2017 11: 28 New
                        +1
                        This is about the strike of pilots, not a word about new aircraft

                        This is due to the fact that you draw conclusions only on the basis of real statistics. She represents one of the many existing points of view.
                        And good relations between Russia and Bulgaria were only at the end of the 19 century, when you were freed from Turkey.

                        This "conclusion" comes from ignorance of the history of our relationship. Somewhere in other posts I gave a detailed chronology. From the end of the 19 century to the 2004, Bulgaria and Russia / the USSR were allies of 5,6 times more time than in warring alliances.
                        If in the calculations we include the period from 2004 g / BG membership in NATO / up to the present moment, then all the same the time during which Bulgaria and the RI / USSR were allies is 2,5 times longer.
                        When adding to the calculations those periods in which Bulgaria was in unions having a partnership agreement with the Republic of Ingushetia / USSR / Russia (the Ribentrop-Mollotov Pact and the Partnership Program for Peace of the RF-NATO), they are obtained correspondingly / up to 2004 / in 6,1 times, and up to now, in 3 times more time in friendship than conflict.
                        And then, in gratitude, you fought two world wars against us.

                        Again the propaganda thesis, which has little in common with the facts. Of course, it can be repeated until dull, but this is not my problem.
                        So, as the Ukrainians say, `` no you are not our brothers. ''

                        Here again is a “generalization" which does not make a difference in the relationship between peoples and states. Peoples may be fraternal, but politicians guiding these states are always guided by the interests of their state, since they understand them. This fully applies to Russian politics. Interests can be opposed even to states in which fraternal, related peoples live. At the same time, these interests may coincide with the state, whose peoples can not be called fraternal.
                        And in NATO and the European Union, sit on, they apparently haven’t completely undressed you yet.

                        I am opposed to NAT and not a supporter of the EU. But commenting on the situation, one must get away from emotions and watch the facts as they are.
                        NATO doesn’t hover around us, knowing about the sympathy of the Bulgarians for Russia. NATO generals and diplomats themselves publicly acknowledge this fact.
                        EU-Bulgarian economy / like the economy of the Russian Federation / in the 90, they suffered a breakdown associated with the transition from a socially planned economy to a market one. With the entry into the EU 2007, the collapse stopped and the Bulgarian economy slowly started to grow. And over the past 5 years, Bulgaria has entered the 3-ku of the EU countries with the best comprehensive indicators. So the approval of the Bulgarians for the EU is steadily positive. People are not stupid and see the benefits of membership, criticizing the accompanying negatives. The benefits are more than negative. Yes and no, another alternative. Will you tell me at least one?
  2. Dezinto
    Dezinto 8 November 2017 13: 40 New
    10
    It seems they themselves do not know what they want ... Bulgarians .... in a word.

    “I do not want to, I will not, I don’t fly, the gas flow - yes, but no” and so on. Just kapets funny.

    I would not want a girl from Bulgaria, that is probably a park))))))
    1. pjastolov
      pjastolov 8 November 2017 13: 43 New
      +6
      Quote: DEZINTO
      It seems they themselves do not know what they want ... Bulgarians .... in a word.

      “I do not want to, I will not, I don’t fly, the gas flow - yes, but no” and so on. Just kapets funny.

      so everything from gestures and facial expressions goes
    2. Jedi
      Jedi 8 November 2017 13: 44 New
      12
      Quote: DEZINTO
      .bulgars .... in a word.

      lol Video topic:
    3. weksha50
      weksha50 8 November 2017 14: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: DEZINTO
      yes but no "and so on.


      Well ... A nod with his head down answers them - NO, and shaking his head left and right means - YES ...
      That is why problems are possible when communicating with Bulgarian girls ... Double interpretation of the same gestures ... laughing
    4. pytar
      pytar 8 November 2017 15: 30 New
      +1
      It seems they themselves do not know what they want ... Bulgarians .... in a word.

      Only so it seems ... laughing
      “I do not want to, I will not, I don’t fly, the gas flow - yes, but no” and so on. Just kapets funny.

      Objective information leads to serious findings. Humorous, laughing! Well ... Merry mood is always in the black! laughing
      I would not want a girl from Bulgaria, that is probably a park))))))

      Even if you want, it will be extremely difficult for you to get to her favor. They are very picky about their choice. wink But Russian girls like Bulgarians! 90% of all marriages with foreigners / foreigners in Bulgaria is Bulgarian-Russian. good For Russian girls and women from me personally ... love
  3. Livonetc
    Livonetc 8 November 2017 13: 43 New
    +1
    Quote: andrewkor
    Not a single bolt to NATO "little brothers"!

    So the Hungarians will put them.
    They are also NATO members.
    And even more than 30ty 29th in service in Poland.
    1. Separ DNR
      Separ DNR 8 November 2017 13: 54 New
      +3
      Quote: Livonetc
      more than 30 29th in service in Poland

      Yes. And "friends", previously delivered by the USSR to Poland as a partner in the VD, and transferred from the Luftwaffe of the FRG (a wound of the GDR Air Force) to aircraft.
  4. Going
    Going 8 November 2017 13: 51 New
    11
    I re-read the article several times, and did not understand what was passion and how we should relate to it.
    1. MoJloT
      MoJloT 8 November 2017 13: 56 New
      +2
      In fact, that swear. Let us drive them butter there pads are not expensive to change.
      1. ul_vitalii
        ul_vitalii 8 November 2017 14: 17 New
        +9
        And the wing flaps
    2. Separ DNR
      Separ DNR 8 November 2017 13: 59 New
      +5
      Quote: Going
      I do not understand what is passion

      The fact that the NATO-brothers have scorned to the point that their own pilots are afraid of their planes is like hell.
      Quote: Going
      how do we feel about this

      To deal with irony, exclusively with irony.
      1. Going
        Going 8 November 2017 14: 05 New
        +9
        And we treat only differently, we do not need anything from their cries and Wishlist.
    3. pytar
      pytar 8 November 2017 14: 24 New
      +3
      I re-read the article several times, and did not understand what was passion and how we should relate to it.

      No way. Just a filing for fantasizing in couch patriots on the forums. laughing
      1. Going
        Going 8 November 2017 14: 28 New
        +9
        I’m a couch strategist, and you? lol
        1. pytar
          pytar 8 November 2017 15: 50 New
          +4
          I am not sofas and not a strategist. Everything is more modest ... laughing But to your choice of occupation, I have no objections! Nazdarovy guys! Russians and Bulgarians are relatives! drinks
          1. sogdy
            sogdy 9 November 2017 07: 08 New
            0
            Quote: pytar
            Everything is more modest ...

            Consulate?
            1. pytar
              pytar 10 November 2017 11: 43 New
              +1
              No ... I try, as far as possible, to bring more truthful information from the place of events to our Russian friends. In Russia there are many people who are interested! hi
  5. Sergei75
    Sergei75 8 November 2017 13: 58 New
    0
    Well, maybe it’s new and appropriate, but someone can shake off these.
    1. Nikolai Grek
      Nikolai Grek 8 November 2017 15: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: Sergei75
      Well, maybe it’s new and appropriate, but someone can shake off these.

      don’t throw up the idea ... balgaras can shake off their igilast !!! wassat wassat negative negative laughing laughing laughing
      1. Sergei75
        Sergei75 8 November 2017 20: 14 New
        0
        and figs with them, they are old and outdated, but our air defense is on guard of a free sky .... or is it not worth it?
        1. sogdy
          sogdy 9 November 2017 07: 10 New
          0
          That's just the point that ours. And MiGs are like “ours” ...
  6. weksha50
    weksha50 8 November 2017 14: 06 New
    +1
    "Now in Bulgaria they say that they can buy more than 1,2 thousand parts of MiG-29 aircraft (including 20 engines) from Hungary to repair the fighters of the country's air force"...

    Duc ... Who will repair - then produce? Poles again? From the MIG corporation you will now get a donut hole ... Including the extension of resources ... laughing And without this, with new-old parts delivered by a certified repairman who is unknown, the Bulgarian pilots will begin to fly, what’s the matter ??? lol
    Screwed up with Mig-29 in full !!! good negative
    1. pytar
      pytar 8 November 2017 17: 02 New
      +2
      Duc ... Who will repair - then produce?

      So yes not so ... There is such a company in Bulgaria. "Terem" is called. So, according to the words of the representative of the RSK A. Aleksandrov: “the plant / in Plovdiv / Pritizhava the set of documentation was absolutely lawfully filmed and“ stand ”equipped for repairs on the engine, with an outage on the newsletter”. I think it’s understandable in Russian too. Prior to 2012, the factory repaired 144 aircraft of various types from Romania, Poland, Hungary, Algeria, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Mali, as well as the 441 engine for Germany, the Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Algeria, Iraq, Syria Libya, Nigeria, Malaysia and Ethiopia. At present, the plant repairs only Mi-brand helicopters. The management of the company declares that, with interest from customers, it can also quickly restore the nomenclature for repairs on military aircraft.
      1. weksha50
        weksha50 8 November 2017 17: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: pytar
        The management of the company declares that, with interest from customers, it can reinstate in a short time


        It is clear ... Only - a counter question: why were you going to make repairs at the Poles? Why do Bulgarian pilots refuse to fly these planes today?
        This is without jokes ... You want to denote the status quo and restore the allegedly violated justice and say that Bulgaria itself can carry out this repair ... "If desired" ... ... I ask the question: why Until now, desires extended in a completely different direction? ... hi
        1. pytar
          pytar 8 November 2017 18: 23 New
          +2
          The questions are reasonable! good
          Why were you going to make repairs at the Poles?

          There is a doctrinal problem in determining the scope and scope of repair plans (PMP). Engines, electronics, gliders and / or etc. One version of the PMP complex is more profitable to do with one performer, another about another. Discussions, analyzes as appropriate, are ongoing. The Polish WZL plants undoubtedly have a much higher capacitance than the Terem. In addition, “Terem” cannot begin to immediately carry out such an order, as it froze these capacities due to a switch to another line. By the way, RSK came up with a new offer in February. And the question of upgrading our MiG-29 to remove. They’re old ... I’m not talking about any “trampled upon justice”! Here we are talking about a set of indicators, economic, military and technical!
          Why do Bulgarian pilots refuse to fly these planes today?

          There are several reasons. 1. Old aircraft due to repairs spend more time. Supporting him in flying condition cherishes time. Yes, and it becomes more dangerous to fly on it. It's like with old cars. 2. Finally, in the Bulgarian budget, there is money for the sun! But officials continue to dangle! The pilots boiled up and decided to tighten their coats!
          I think I answered clearly! Sorry for the grammatical mistakes!
  7. askort154
    askort154 8 November 2017 14: 06 New
    +3
    And the airfield is overgrown with weed. Have not flown for a long time. It seems to have been built by captured Germans. With the same hexagonal slabs, the captured Germans built an airfield in Stalingrad. I have never met anywhere else in the USSR, and such a technology was not used in our country.
    1. pvv113
      pvv113 8 November 2017 15: 40 New
      +1
      5 points for observation! But in the USSR there were such technologies (mine or trophy - I don’t know). At 402 Tbap (Orsha), the TEC parking was exactly the same
    2. pytar
      pytar 8 November 2017 15: 59 New
      +2
      On Bulgarian airdromes there are also wallpapers of a plate variant. All of them were made after the 46-50 by the Bulgarians. In the photo of the Ravnets airbase near Burgas.
  8. Sergey53
    Sergey53 8 November 2017 14: 10 New
    +3
    In Bulgaria, anti-Russian sentiments bloom in terry colors. Therefore, they will purchase or repair at least somewhere, if only not in RUSSIA. The closure of the Kozloduy NPP, the cessation of the construction of the Belene NPP, the southern stream, the desecration of monuments.
    1. pytar
      pytar 8 November 2017 14: 36 New
      +5
      In Bulgaria, anti-Russian sentiments bloom in terry colors.

      Not true. According to ALL opinion polls, even the sociological agencies conducted by Western societies, the overwhelming majority of / 76-82% / Bulgarians, are positive about Russians.
      Therefore, they will purchase or repair at least somewhere, if only not in RUSSIA.

      UTB is visible your opinion, totally differs from the opinion of the RSK. Yesterday I read that the DGCs came out again, with some new proposal.
      The closure of the Kozloduy NPP, the cessation of the construction of the Belene NPP, the southern stream, the desecration of monuments.

      You lag behind developments on all these issues. A little info, as a material for reflection:
      The life of Kozloduy NPP was continued until 2030 with an option to continue to 2040. A month ago, Izhora Plants delivered 2 reactors for Belene NPP. Negotiations are ongoing with investors to resume construction. Including from Russian. UP stopped the Russian Federation, not Bulgaria. At the moment, negotiations are underway for a new development on this topic. About monuments - reality is diametrically different with what you write. It's a pity.
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 8 November 2017 15: 03 New
        +4
        Quote: pytar
        UP stopped the Russian Federation, not Bulgaria

        Oh really? And who was swinging the third EU energy package there? Like, you can build an UP, but then you have to give the pipe to us. Does Russia need such a kidalovo?
        1. pytar
          pytar 8 November 2017 16: 03 New
          +2
          And who was swinging the third EU energy package there?

          Do you know who? EC - European Commission. This is one such administrative structure, whose decisions are binding on the construction of objects in the territories of all EU countries. Now they are trying to expand its powers and territorial waters of the EU states. What can be called into question the construction of the Nord Stream. Not specifically interested, but I think a similar adm. is there an authority in the Customs Union?
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 8 November 2017 17: 38 New
            0
            Quote: pytar
            And who was swinging the third EU energy package there?

            Do you know who? EC - European Commission. This is one such administrative structure, whose decisions are binding on the construction of objects in the territories of all EU countries. Now they are trying to expand its powers and territorial waters of the EU states. What can be called into question the construction of the Nord Stream. Not specifically interested, but I think a similar adm. is there an authority in the Customs Union?

            Well, what does Russia have to do with it? The EC pressed Bulgaria, and you raised your legs up. But still, in your opinion, it was Russia that refused to build the UP on its own whim.
            1. pytar
              pytar 8 November 2017 18: 45 New
              +1
              Well, what does Russia have to do with it?

              Gazprom Bulgarian, or what? It is true and not entirely Russian, but this is another topic ... UP, is this a project between whom and whom?
              The EC pressed Bulgaria, and you raised your legs up.

              Does the Customs Union have its own rules and laws? Everyone can do what they want there?
              But still, in your opinion, it is Russia that has refused to build a legal entity on its own whim.

              I understand that all your “knowledge” is derived from the media! To find out all the details for you, I’ll have to write a whole article! Briefly: BG never refused to fulfill its obligations and continued to work until the middle of 2016. Russia, in the face of GDP, announced the pre-installation of the project in 2014, and as far as I remember, of. doc Issued again in the middle of 2016. By the way, the question of renewing UP in another variant is still not finished, judging by the statements of the Russian officials. persons. Wait, see.
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      2. Sergey53
        Sergey53 8 November 2017 15: 29 New
        +3
        If 76-82% of Bulgarians treat us positively, how did you choose the ANTIROSSIAN government. Do you have it chosen by a minority?
        1. Nikolai Grek
          Nikolai Grek 8 November 2017 15: 44 New
          +2
          Quote: Sergey53
          If 76-82% of Bulgarians treat us positively, how did you choose the ANTIROSSIAN government. Do you have it chosen by a minority?

          laughing laughing laughing good good tales will be that ordinary people nIFFchemniFFinovat !!! wink yes yes yes lol lol lol
        2. pytar
          pytar 8 November 2017 16: 29 New
          +4
          Sergey, the situation with the elections is not so simple. For example, it is customary for us to consider that socialists / former communists / pro-Russian, which is not true. And right-wing parties are considered pro-European, which is also not entirely true. Nobody holds anti-Russian rhetoric before the election, because then he has no chance. In most Bulgarian terms, “pro-European” does not mean anti-Russian. Bulgaria is geographically located in Europe and economically dependent on the EU, and at that time the cultural and historical ties with Russia are very strong. In fact, always, when the "pro-Russian" socialists take power, the economy comes to a standstill. By the way, they often rule in a coalition with the DPS / party of ethnic Turks /. The current "pro-European" government includes patriotic parties and the Ataka party, which is recognized as the most anti-Western party in the EU! She advocates an exit from NATO and a military alliance with the Russian Federation. Now President Gen. R. Radev and Prime Minister Borisov are in favor of lifting the sanctions and for improving relations with Russia. Bulgaria will chair the EU in 2018 and has already declared that this issue will be one of the main ones. What caused the diplomatic scandal with Poland! Not everything is so straightforward, with Bulgarian politics as you think. Bulgaria has its own interests and it tries to protect from, to the extent possible. bully
      3. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek 8 November 2017 15: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: pytar
        Not true. According to ALL opinion polls, even the sociological agencies conducted by Western societies, the overwhelming majority of / 76-82% / Bulgarians, are positive about Russians.

        Well, you are telling me that this has been and has been for many years, which did not stop you from speaking in the two wars on the side of the Nazis ... and right now, you continue with them to be rooting in the first place !!! negative negative negative confusing us with your overwhelming positive attitude ??? what what request request laughing laughing laughing
        1. Sergey53
          Sergey53 8 November 2017 16: 06 New
          +1
          By the way, in Syria we are fighting terrorists and Bulgaria and Ukraine are supplying new weapons to terrorists. Together with the United States, they are on the side of EVIL.
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek 8 November 2017 16: 10 New
            +2
            Quote: Sergey53
            By the way, in Syria we are fighting terrorists and Bulgaria and Ukraine are supplying new weapons to terrorists. Together with the United States, they are on the side of EVIL.

            so a little higher I wrote this !!!! wassat wassat wassat
            Nikolay Grek 2 Today, 15:37 ↑
            Quote: Sergei75
            Well, maybe it’s new and appropriate, but someone can shake off these.
            -------------------------------------------------
            ----------------------------------------
            don’t throw up the idea ... balgaras can shake off their igilast !!!       
        2. pytar
          pytar 8 November 2017 17: 19 New
          +1
          Yes, what there "... in two wars on the side of the Nazis .."! In all absolutely wars in all times it was so! It even around the pyramids from the 30 century BC preserved imprints on the heels of the fighting Bulgarian fascist and Russian red armies! You can distinguish someone, so our barefoots were, and yours in bast shoes! wassat
          To you from your "overwhelming" negative attitude! what Will you live with it for 30 centuries? Yes, in such a "state" do not live long! lol
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek 8 November 2017 17: 45 New
            +2
            Quote: pytar
            Yes, what there "... in two wars on the side of the Nazis .."! In all absolutely wars in all times it was so! It even around the pyramids from the 30 century BC preserved imprints on the heels of the fighting Bulgarian fascist and Russian red armies! You can distinguish someone, so our barefoots were, and yours in bast shoes! wassat
            To you from your "overwhelming" negative attitude! what Will you live with it for 30 centuries? Yes, in such a "state" do not live long! lol

            Well then, explain the Bulgarian version of the story and its place in the first and second world !!! wassat wassat
            1. pytar
              pytar 9 November 2017 10: 52 New
              +2
              Well then, explain the Bulgarian version of the story and its place in the first and second world !!!

              This is a new topic outside the one under which we write. Not obliged to answer, but I will say briefly:
              Many countries participated in world wars. Each went out of its strategic interests as it understood them.
              For Bulgaria, WWI was a continuation of the Russo-Turkish Liberation War in 1878. The goal was to free Bulgarian lands that came under foreign occupation inhabited by the Bulgarian population. Russia at that time had its own goals and it became an ally of our / and its / its worst enemies! The Bulgarian army fought only at the Balkans. They did not send troops to the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia. After the revolution in Russia, defeated and impoverished Bulgaria accepted, fed and equipped hundreds of thousands of Russian refugee soldiers. Their descendants became our sonarodniki. Now often meet a Bulgarian whose Russian grandfather.
              WWII was an ideological war. Little Bulgaria was between the hammer and the sledgehammer, tried to cross this global cataclysm with the least losses. To save their people and statehood before dictates by unstoppable force. This succeeded in a significant step. We must pay tribute to Tsar Boris. Finding themselves in the "jaws of the Nazi beast", the Bulgarians defended their Jews and did not give them to the crematoriums. There was a pro-communist partisan movement. For the entire period of the war, normal diplomatic relations were maintained with the USSR. Bulgarians did not go on the Eastern Front. The Soviet army did not lose a single soldier "liberating" Bulgaria. And since September 1944, the half-million Bulgarian army fought very successfully against the Wehrmacht.
        3. weksha50
          weksha50 8 November 2017 17: 39 New
          +6
          Quote: Nikolai the Greek
          confusing us with your overwhelming positive attitude ???



          Guys, honestly - you got the Bulgarian ...
          Well, he is not the president and not the prime minister ... Once he came here to VO with normal intentions ... I did not see him troll and goat in his comments ... But it turns out that he is only fighting off attacks. ..
          There is enough who should be given the pendal ...
          And about this (no offense), we can say, paraphrasing Viktor Sukhorukov: It is good that he is a Bulgarian, not a Romanian ... lol hi
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek 8 November 2017 18: 11 New
            +3
            Quote: weksha50
            And about this (no offense), we can say, paraphrasing Viktor Sukhorukov: It is good that he is a Bulgarian, not a Romanian ...

            and if the Romanians come with good intentions, then we’ll say Che ??? wassat wassat wassat laughing laughing laughing by and large, the fact is that Americans, Ukrainians, Saudis, and British, etc., etc., can come here with good intentions, but what good is it to us ??? !!! request request request wassat wassat wassat laughing laughing times such that you have to look at the actions of countries on the world stage, and not according to the comments of well-wishers from these countries ... and do not forget that all sorts of critters come to the leadership of the countries not without the help of just ordinary NIFFchemniFFinovyh peoples !!! negative negative negative yes lol lol lol
            1. weksha50
              weksha50 8 November 2017 20: 57 New
              +5
              Quote: Nikolai the Greek
              you have to look at the actions of countries on the world stage, and not according to the comments of well-wishers from these countries ... and do not forget that all sorts of critters come to the leadership of the countries not without the help of just the usual nIFFchemniFFinovyh peoples !!!


              Ahem ... agree ... hi
              Just something bad thoughts came to my head ... about the "nIFFchemniFFinovyh" Duma and the government of our country ... The Duma - it gives birth to laws, the government acts on them ... And, as our president says - it’s effective ...

              In general, it turns out that we have a "nIFFchemniFFinovoe" state leadership, and the "nIFFchemneHodnyy" people are guilty of all troubles ... So, what? recourse

              But we, by such attacks on ordinary people, also turn them away from us ...
              Although, when the Nazis roamed around the territory of the USSR and killed and robbed, some also tried to talk about the fact that they included workers and peasants who did not want to fight the USSR ... But - they fought and killed ...

              Chore is difficult ... what
              1. Nikolai Grek
                Nikolai Grek 8 November 2017 21: 15 New
                +2
                Quote: weksha50
                Just something bad thoughts came to my head ... about the "nIFFchemniFFinovyh" Duma and the government of our country ... The Duma - it gives birth to laws, the government acts on them ... And, as our president says - it’s effective ...

                firstly, we considered the foreign policy activities of states !!! secondly, I doubt that let local guardians for the human rights, huge salaries and decent pensions, for all the good versus all the bad things into the Duma, they will immediately arrange paradise in Russia by passing laws which, in their opinion, should be adopted !! messing about the fact that "I know how to make the life of Russians paradise" is one thing, and acting in reality is another! wink yes wassat lol
  9. Lena Petrova
    Lena Petrova 8 November 2017 14: 16 New
    +3
    Quote: weksha50
    A nod with their heads down answers “NO,” and shaking their heads left and right means “YES ...”

    How do they breed at all ?!
    1. pytar
      pytar 8 November 2017 16: 08 New
      +4
      How do they breed at all ?!

      Lena, I'm sorry ... Are you specific and want to know in more detail ...? lol
    2. alatanas
      alatanas 8 November 2017 17: 26 New
      +3
      By budding, and then the storks carry us! But between the beds with cabbage we are not! laughing tongue
  10. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 8 November 2017 14: 19 New
    0
    “More modern fighters,” for example, in Sweden.

    Let them immediately take Amer's trash, and wave it to the owners.
  11. Hagalaz
    Hagalaz 8 November 2017 14: 23 New
    0
    Already wrote and will write more. Bulgaria does not need any aircraft. Neither Russian nor Swedish. Waste of money.
  12. stolz
    stolz 8 November 2017 14: 32 New
    0
    Quote: Jedi
    If the Hungarians are going to buy - it means there is money. Moreover, Hungary arranges an auction, but they do not sell it at credit auctions.

    Both sellers and buyers flaunt with a bare backside, and there, pretend to be decent, arrange auctions.
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  15. APASUS
    APASUS 8 November 2017 19: 01 New
    0
    I remember how much noise it was. Removing planes in Poland under our own guarantees, because the manufacturer of guarantees for "garage" repairs does not give, and here the apotheosis of events, it came to an end then!
    Avaricious pays twice, or even thrice!
  16. Bratyshka
    Bratyshka 8 November 2017 19: 23 New
    +8
    Guys, honestly - you got the Bulgarian ...
    Well, he is not the president and not the prime minister ... Once he came here to VO with normal intentions ... I did not see him troll and goat in his comments ... But it turns out that he is only fighting off attacks. ..
    There is enough who should be given the pendal ...
    And about this (no offense), we can say, paraphrasing Viktor Sukhorukov: It is good that he is a Bulgarian, not a Romanian ...
    I absolutely support. It will be a pity if the Bulgarian leaves. From the whole branch, only his thoughts are interesting
  17. Bratyshka
    Bratyshka 8 November 2017 19: 37 New
    +1
    Quote: weksha50
    Quote: DEZINTO
    yes but no "and so on.


    Well ... A nod with his head down answers them - NO, and shaking his head left and right means - YES ...
    That is why problems are possible when communicating with Bulgarian girls ... Double interpretation of the same gestures ... laughing

    .... in the previous quote., I apologize
  18. Augustine Gladyshev
    Augustine Gladyshev 8 November 2017 23: 55 New
    0
    The leadership of Bulgaria SELLED WITH GRAVES HIS NATO COUNTRY. Unfortunately, the PEOPLE ARE SAME THERE, and what is the THIRD TIME for the WHOLE HISTORY of this poor Country ...
  19. Abel
    Abel 9 November 2017 09: 40 New
    +1
    What problems? And why buy in Hungary? Better to order in Ukraine. Sell ​​cheaply !!!
  20. dDYHA
    dDYHA 9 November 2017 13: 19 New
    0
    And put the parts. And then we write off the debt. How true someone already noticed this same bro. Which, in all honesty, are not bros.
  21. pytar
    pytar 10 November 2017 17: 28 New
    +2
    Fresh information from 10.11.2017:
    Poland has fulfilled an engine repair contract for Bulgarian MiGs.

    Poland has fulfilled the agreement on providing logistic support for the Bulgarian MiG-29 aircraft, signed in the 2015 year, announced today during the parliamentary control, Bulgarian Minister of Defense Krasimir Karakachanov.
    He announced that all six engines repaired in Poland for Bulgarian fighter jets are being used. 6.139 million euros were paid for repairs.
    When asked by a deputy from the Bulgarian Socialist Party, Zhello Boychev, whether this was the most advantageous option for the Bulgarian Air Force, Karakachanov announced that he had given a "breath of air" for the country's air force. However, the Minister emphasized that the engines should be repaired by their manufacturer and Bulgaria has already signed a memorandum in this regard with RSK MiG.

    The agreement was signed by the Bulgarian side and should be initialed in Russia. After that, the working group will arrive in Bulgaria to inspect the engines and, depending on the repair price, the Ministry of Defense will decide how many of them will be modernized. We are talking about 15 aircraft with 30 engines.
  22. Kashey IMMORTAL
    Kashey IMMORTAL 11 November 2017 07: 12 New
    +1
    "refuse to sit at the helm of these fighters"
    If the fighter had a helm, I would not have got into it either.