Kubat Rakhimov: Railway to China - Kyrgyzstan’s civilizational choice against Russia and Kazakhstan

36

Scheme: The main standards of railway gauge. Source: Wikipedia.



Map: Dissemination of railway gauge standards across the world. Source: US Central Intelligence Agency. CIA Factbook - 2006. Green indicates the Russian standard 1520 mm, which is used in Russia, the CIS countries, Mongolia, Finland, partly in Afghanistan and Slovakia.


Interview of international expert on transport issues Kubat Rakhimov BakuToday:

REGNUM: The Kyrgyz government announced its firm intention to build a China-Kyrgyzstan-Uzbekistan railway. How do you rate this project? What are the pros and cons?

To begin with, let's clarify - often the Chinese themselves call this road simply the “Sino-Uzbek railway”. That is, this is an indicator. They "forget" to mention that 268 kilometers of this railway pass through the territory of Kyrgyzstan. What is the danger? There is a geopolitical aspect and a geo-economic aspect. That is what I am talking about at all events related to transport, the construction of the railway is a conscious civilization choice of Kyrgyzstan. That is, in fact, there are three scenarios. The first is to preserve the vector of orientation towards Russia and the post-Soviet space — not just preservation, but real integration steps. That is, first to the Customs Union, then to the Common Economic Space and the future Eurasian Union. In this case, you just need to be honest and say, “Yes, we are oriented along this axis.” There is a short-term positive effect in the orientation towards China. primarily economic — building a road, China is a rich country, a real investor, a trading partner, etc. But in the long run, the Chinese “entry” will become an expansion.I can give an example of China that is the construction of the Qinghai-Tibet railway From an engineering point of view, this is an interesting project - because some railway stations are located at an altitude of about 5 thousands of meters above sea level, passengers are even given oxygen masks, there are unique bridges and tunnels, etc. But you shouldn’t lose sight of mind the social and economic consequences of the entry of big China into autonomous Tibet. The Chinese who come there from internal China do not come back, and their number is in the hundreds of thousands, that is, there is a massive lyv low-skilled labor.

Due to the construction of the road and the development of deposits that are among the largest copper and nickel miners, the indigenous Tibetans were forced to leave their inhabited territories, receiving only scanty compensation. There is a destruction of the ecological balance. In general, this road gave nothing to Tibetans. Only the flow of tourists has increased, but at the same time, the flow of people who do not recognize local life values ​​has also increased.

Regarding Kyrgyzstan - in the republic, according to official data, 90 of thousands of official Chinese migrants are registered. But, as the experience of all Chinatowns shows, unofficial figures usually exceed this figure 2,5 - 4 times, depending on the level of corruption of law enforcement agencies. Therefore, I think that in Kyrgyzstan the real number of Chinese migrants is already about a quarter of a million. Now consider the population of Kyrgyzstan - its number will be 5,5 million people, of which 500.000 is stable in earnings - in Russia, in Kazakhstan, somewhere else. And instead of these people who are absent in the country, we have already received a quarter of a million Chinese. If there is this railway, then the number of Chinese in Kyrgyzstan will surely grow to half a million - despite the strengthening of the police, customs, immigration and border services. What is Chinese 500.000 is already 10% of the population of the republic. This is already a "critical mass".

REGNUM: What can you say about Chinese migrants? How ideological are they?

The Chinese who come to Central Asia are very passionate. Oddly enough, all these traders, day laborers, farmers - they are very ideological. They are all patriots of "big China", bearers of the imperial ideology. Of course, they do not shout about this at every corner, and the icon depicting Mao is probably worn only on holidays. But, try to communicate with them, and you will understand that they even work abroad for the benefit of the big idea of ​​Zhongguo (Middle State, Celestial Empire as the center of the Universe). Thus, it is possible to come to the conclusion that every tenth citizen of Kyrgyzstan will be Chinese-huaqiao.

The second risk is that the Chinese use the most "barbarous" technology of mining. The development of deposits in Tibet and XUAR showed that economic expediency prevails over other considerations. And, if it is possible to use low-skilled labor of the masses of workers instead of operating expensive modern devices, then the Chinese will prefer to use people. At the first stage, there will be a positive effect from such cooperation, but then, I doubt that the residents of Kyrgyzstan will be happy to see the mutilated landscape - the unclosed tailing dumps destroyed by heavy trucks. The Chinese do not stand on ceremony - in the same Tibet, they destroyed about 15 percent of all pastures. By the way, the important moment is that while we build the above-mentioned railway, the Chinese will have time to break the roads that they themselves are building in Kyrgyzstan now on credit. After all, they do not comply with weight standards. In the end, this will put a heavy burden on Kyrgyzstan - these are loans, albeit long-term ones. With such an attitude of the Chinese to a foreign ecology, nothing will grow in Kyrgyzstan after that.

The third risk. There is on the part of the initiators of the construction of the Chinese-Kyrgyz-Uzbek railway, I would say naive or malicious intent - that the Chinese will create a lot of jobs for the local population. As a transport expert, as a researcher in this area, I can say a few simple things. First, ethnic Han Chinese built the railway in Tibet. That is, the Tibetans did not work there, although, formally, the Chinese had to hire them. One of the reasons was the language barrier. Imagine the interaction of a Chinese foreman and a Kyrgyz worker - do you need to hire another translator? In the project budget, this is clearly not foreseen! Low qualifications also play a significant role - according to the Chinese, the local population has an insufficient level of knowledge and skills and is too lazy.

Next, look who is building the Torugart-Bishkek road? Chinese. Chinese labor, Chinese builders and Chinese equipment. Well, maybe they buy fuel and some food from local suppliers. And that's all ... In fact, they arrived, earned money and left. That is, the effect at the level of the local, local economy is scanty. The same will happen with the construction of the China-Uzbekistan railway. Formally, the creation of 10 thousands of jobs will be announced, and in fact thousands of Chinese will build the road 2-3.

REGNUM: Will they be employees of one of the Chinese corporations?

Not. In China, most of the railways are built by soldiers of the famous PLA railway troops. In this case, the military personnel of the Chinese army, even if they are from railway troops, will be located on the territory of Kyrgyzstan for about 6-7 years. Let them be in civilian clothes and with passports, but we know that in China the railways are being built by the military.

REGNUM: And what does it change? If you wish, China may seize Kyrgyzstan and launching an offensive from its territory ...

We are not talking about capture. We are talking about the "infiltration" of military personnel of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army on the territory of Kyrgyzstan. Albeit with good purposes, but it is - "seepage." As part of the construction of the railway, it will not be negotiated as interaction under bilateral military-political agreements. That is, if it were said that the authorities of the People's Republic of China and Kyrgyzstan sign an agreement on military-strategic partnership, under which the Chinese side delegates thousands of unarmed railway troops to 2, this is one thing. And the fact that such a paper will not be signed is another. I doubt that they will raise this topic at all.

Kyrgyzstan is porto franco for geopolitical games. Whether we like it or not, there is the American “Transit Center”, there are Russian military installations - we still, as they say, lacked only the Chinese. That is, the Chinese military, building the railway. Let us prove a thousand times that they are civilians, but, I repeat, in China, the railroads are built by the military - because the Chinese understand that the railroad implies a strategy. Moreover, military strategy.

REGNUM: Could you explain the moment with the gauge? So that it is extremely clear from the point of view of strategic value.

Rut, it usually has two components: economic and military-strategic or military-tactical in our time. From an economic point of view, it is ideal that there is one standard throughout the world or that the continent has one width of the road, so that you do not have to rearrange anything, do not have to do anything. In India and Pakistan, the widest railways, which were built by the British, they are wider than the Russian. In Spain, the gauge, which differs from the French, Franco-German, relatively speaking, “Stefensson” gauge 1435 mm, is a kind of standard. The Russian track is wider, 1524 mm, so it also happened, and largely because of the military-strategic factor.

Therefore, the Soviet Union, for example, built a broad gauge in the fraternal countries of the socialist camp, for example, in Slovakia and the GDR. In the GDR, it was a ferry crossing, now called Sassnitz. In the Baltic ports, Soviet military equipment, including wagons with manpower, immediately rolled on this ferry, he arrived at Mukran (a large railway port complex on the island of Rugen - IA REGNUM), there it was unloaded in a wide rut, that is, quickly enough and quite effective. The same thing happened in Slovakia, etc. Whether we want it or not, a certain geopolitical map of the world, it was drawn before us. Therefore, a rut gap is important from the point of view of an obstacle to the transfer of large groups of manpower and equipment - any cadet knows this. A year ago, speaking in China, I got the audacity and the Chinese people read a little edification in honor of the fact that they, of course, well done, which they did in 20 years. But I told them that 20 years is a short time, in terms of historical prospects. And the fact that they were able to build 2 railway entry points to Kazakhstan, I mean the resuscitation "Dostyk - Alashankou", and the construction of the passage "Khorgos - Korgas", to the Zhetigen station and further to Alma-Ata, worthy, no doubt. Construction of roads in Central Asia, Western China - Western Europe, in particular, and so on. But the Chinese could not build a narrow-gauge trans-Kazakhstan railway. Although they spent quite a lot of money on pulling the Kazakh elites.

Their idea was simple - a narrow gauge that ends in Alashankou, to move further up to the Iranian border. In Iran, too, a narrow track. And the eloquent Beijing said: “Guys, why do you need an overload? We are friends with you, we ourselves consume your oil, gas, metal. We want to go to the Persian Gulf so that peaceful Iranian comrades could send us peaceful Iranian oil. And there will be happiness for everyone ". Kazakhs say: "Everything is fine, everything is wonderful." But when the Soviet Union collapsed, certain parameters of the collapse of the states were agreed. And one of such parameters (often Kyrgyz politicians forget about it) was the question of the gauge width. The fact that if you want to change the gauge, you must coordinate at the level of intergovernmental associations, the CIS, EurAsEC, etc. We were not born in an orphanage. Kyrgyzstan is a full member of the CIS, a full member of the EurAsEC, the same heir to the USSR with all its rights and obligations. When the Security Council of the Russian Federation recommended to their Kazakh colleagues a little more thorough approach to this issue, they heeded this friendly advice and, as part of their development strategy, namely the creation of the Customs Union and a common economic space with Russia and Belarus, said: I don’t need it. And it’s better for us that both Khorgos and the existing Dostyk were overload stations, where the wheelsets are changing. "

So having refused the 4 billionth project, Kazakhstani elites made their choice. In favor of Russia and in favor of Europe.

For some reason, the Kyrgyz elites did not make such a civilization choice. They want to sit on two chairs, but this does not happen. The last 20 of years shows that the Kyrgyz multi-vector model suffers the most serious flaw - in order to be multi-vector, you need to be interesting to potential partners. The simplest example from life is that if a girl believes that she has the right to be friends with several guys, she must have something above, something must be below and something must be in her head. And slender legs.

I very much doubt that infrastructure, industrial and other projects in Kyrgyzstan meet the criteria of "90-60-90". It's just an element of chance that in 2001, the American base "settled" in Kyrgyzstan. Since this happened, the country has become "feverish." Until 2001, Kyrgyzstan was a quiet, peaceful, “haven”. Some experiments were carried out, "an island of democracy", an island of something else. The elites were fairly calm. After 2001, the balance was broken. The violation of this balance leads to the fact that people do not quite adequately understand their civilizational orientation.

There is a third way. Neither the Eurasian Union is Russian-Kazakh-Belarusian, nor China, but some third way, conditionally speaking, the search for "selfhood". A certain "country of Manas" in white caps, pastures, yurts, no civilization, etc. It is possible, no problem, in many countries this has already passed, each has its own version of autarkic development. The result is known. One way or another, it will be necessary to make a civilization choice.

The following risks. As soon as the first stage will be built, along the route Torugart-Osh-Andijan, I think the Chinese side will quickly forget their promises to build a branch that connects with Balykchy. At best, they will bring the railroad to the deposits they need, and they will stop. Why? Yes, because they are not interested. Then, over time, they may build it in order to “throw” the human mass into the fertile valleys of the Chui oblast, the Issyk-Kul valley. Everything will depend on the instructions of the party and government in Beijing. They will say that it is necessary to squeeze out 250 thousands to the people, so be it. These people will quickly "spread" to the north of Kyrgyzstan and quickly build a road to ensure such subsidence. Not immediately, but in stages. China has no reason to hurry. But the union of the North and the South of Kyrgyzstan is not in the interests of Beijing, they need a weak and conflicting vassal.

I want to emphasize that the Chinese project is purely utilitarian. For China, transit to the Caspian region is important. The PRC does not want to depend on Kazakhstan, because Kazakhstan has already made its choice. They need to let this highway to the south, even through the conflicting Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. The Chinese are masters of diplomacy, and I think that when we tinker with this scheme we will conditionally call “Caspian resources going to China and Chinese goods going to densely populated areas of Asia Minor”, ​​they will find a common language with the Kyrgyz, Uzbek, and Tajik transit, and Turkmen. This is a matter of technology. Therefore, they insist to enter Kyrgyzstan with a narrow gauge in order to extend it, over time, over the territories of other states. This is how the "cancer metastasis" will go. And the development of deposits in Kyrgyzstan as an option. In addition to a large geopolitical task.

REGNUM: Tell me please, what about the price? I noticed that the price is constantly growing. Do not you think that the estimate is too high?

I was very funny to read Mr. Otorbaev one day when he said that building a 3,5 road cost a billion dollars, and the next day Mr. Babanov says that 4,5 is a billion. This suggests that they do not have accurate calculations.

The most important thing now is again returning to the civilization choice of the country. Imagine the situation: you have accumulated a lot of debts, that is, an infrastructure project (we will now return to the cost, they are simply interrelated), exceeds the country's budget. That is, if you take the figures of Babanov - 4,5 billion dollars and the budget of Kyrgyzstan somewhere now 3-3,5 billion dollars. The point is that, roughly speaking, the infrastructure project is very much higher than the annual and, notice, deficit budget of the country. This is all done in debt, no money. In addition, the amount of external debt is also comparable to the above amounts. Whether it is “resources for investment”, or loans, in any case, this is a debt burden for an incomprehensible project. And after that, Kyrgyzstan is going to join the Customs Union, the Common Economic Space, the Eurasian Union.

Over time, in this single economic space, the question of the introduction of a single currency will arise. And we from Kyrgyzstan will get Greece-2? With such projects, our children will get a “Greek syndrome” of a headache, and all debts will be a burden on the population and senior partners in the economic union. I think that neither Russia nor Kazakhstan would like to get such a partner with the railway, which has the character of "hitting the underdogs" within the framework of the agreement on the CSTO. This road, in fact, will cut off the interests of Russia and Kazakhstan from the Fergana Valley, and, in the long term, “hang” huge debts on them. And all because some Kyrgyz politicians wanted to become the first Kyrgyz billionaire.

Rakhimov Kubatbek Kalyevich is an expert on infrastructure development of Central Eurasia. Born on September 8, 1970 in the city of Frunze of the Kirghiz USSR in a family of power engineers and scientists. In 1992 he graduated from the Belarusian State University with a degree in political economy. In 2007 he received an Executive MBA degree from the Polish Academy of Entrepreneurship. L. Kozminsky. Currently an applicant for a Ph.D. on the topic of the dissertation "Formation of the Central Asian railway ring through the construction of the Chui-Fergana trans-Kyrgyz railway". In 2000-2001, he headed the representative office of the railways of Kazakhstan in Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic countries, was the first deputy representative of the railways of Kazakhstan in the Russian Federation. In 2002, he was appointed advisor to the Minister of Transport and Communications of the Republic of Kazakhstan on the development of transit potential. In 2003-2004, he headed the Center for Integrated Transport Solutions "TransEurasia", Moscow. 2005-2007 - head of the representative office of the Minsk Automobile Plant in Central Kazakhstan. In 2009-2011, he headed an international research group on the study of transport corridors in Central Eurasia. Currently a member of the board of directors of Kazagromarketing JSC, Astana, Kazakhstan, director of the consulting company Smart Business Solutions Central Asia, Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, head of the CIS representative office of the international company Central EurAsia trade & logistic LP.
36 comments
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  1. +6
    29 March 2012 12: 09
    REGNUM: And what does it change? If you wish, China may seize Kyrgyzstan and launching an offensive from its territory ...

    http://topwar.ru/12901-kubat-rahimov-zheleznaya-doroga-v-kitay-civilizacionnyy-v

    ybor-kirgizii-protiv-rossii-i-kazakhstana.html
    Malacholny, they think the Chinese will come to fight. They will buy everyone with giblets, in bulk, and the Kyrgyz will become Chinese, and no one will notice.
  2. +14
    29 March 2012 12: 17
    competently painted everything, offset. good
  3. +8
    29 March 2012 12: 20
    Again, everything rests on the "rotten" policy of Kyrgyzstan.
    What are we waiting for, is it not clear?
  4. Sarus
    +7
    29 March 2012 12: 22
    Yeah ....
    Or send Kyrgyzstan far far into the steppe
    Or take under the wing giving money to all politicians and feed them while he is in power and then feed others and always ..
    Or just make Kyrgyzstan a purely Russian subject ...
    True, I don’t know how to do it
    1. +4
      29 March 2012 12: 25
      I know that.
      But they won’t want to listen to me.
      Upstairs.
      1. +6
        29 March 2012 12: 55
        Igarr,
        Hi Igor! Tell us! laughing
        Maybe they will hear there!
        1. +5
          29 March 2012 13: 18
          Hi!
          They won’t hear it, Sergey.
          In addition, in that "sandbox" - they occupied all their niches.
          That they are someone to listen to. This does not happen.
          1. +5
            29 March 2012 13: 36
            I think that cleaning is just beginning in that company, we will see after the May holidays who will replace them. And for Kyrgyzstan, another surprise is surely prepared! drinks
            1. +5
              29 March 2012 15: 19
              I asked ...
              I'm not the only one .. smart. The mass of comrades ..
              for example .. a little lower on the tape.


              rolik (3) Today, 13: 25
              The solution is simple and obvious, to organize your president in Kyrgyzstan. Examples in bulk. And while he is in power, get in there so that then they don’t even have a thought to make an offer about our departure.
    2. +3
      29 March 2012 12: 45
      Kyrgyzstan must be convinced of the final loss of the planned event, it will not work using political and diplomatic methods, which means tough economic ones.
    3. +14
      29 March 2012 14: 51
      Rather, in the mountains. More than 90% of the territory of Kyrgyzstan is mountains. There is a situation similar to Ukraine: the southerners are marching with the northerners for power, and each new president begins to pursue his policy-remove old bureaucrats from the feeders, put their own. Therefore, investors are thrown because Our borders have already been burned. The new and old authorities have no succession. The Kyrgyz themselves are tired of all this. And the country is very beautiful. The entire region travels to the high mountain lake Issyk-Kul. Imagine an altitude of 3000 m above sea level, and the water is warm (length 200 km, width 90 km) .And around the mountain with glaciers on top, Switzerland is resting. For a couple of weeks you will go and a whole year for no colds. Such tourism can raise grandmothers on tourism alone, but so far no fate.
      1. +8
        29 March 2012 15: 16
        Here, Dauren, thanks for the post.
        Though quite reasonable thoughts.
        Wow, it seems I’m there, but I wasn’t in Issyk-Kul. But I hope to visit.
        1. +10
          29 March 2012 15: 47
          Igarr. Not at all. Be sure to visit. I’m sure you won’t regret it. By the way, many Russians have a rest there, especially from the Urals. Food and fruit are cheap. The water is clean and salty. Regards.
          1. +7
            29 March 2012 16: 24
            Kasym,
            I’m confirming that I’m a neighbor, I retired and left to live there. I’m Russian myself, but I’m from those places. I left my daughter’s apartment, I don’t blow in my mustache with my wife and northern pension. I came to visit in the summer, I did not regret that I left.
  5. BAT
    +4
    29 March 2012 12: 36
    Again, Kyrgyzstan is strange. It is necessary to organize another revolution in Kyrgyzstan. But the president needs to be selected for them adequate and not greedy. And then the current one is somehow incomprehensible. Darting, rushing --- and ours. and yours, and to the tune of someone else's dance. And give him more money, and write off your previous debts.
  6. Tugarin snake
    +8
    29 March 2012 12: 39
    Kyrgyzstan, as usual, will be taken. The only question is who will be the first - Kazakhstan or Russia.
    1. Daka
      +7
      29 March 2012 12: 59
      Let them do it better than the PRC will do it.
      The first two countries are at least friendly and in some ways even fraternal, which can not be said about the Chinese.
  7. patriot2
    +6
    29 March 2012 12: 46
    Yes, it turns out that Kyrgyzstan may already lose its statehood because of China or Russia. And becoming an ally of Russia is weak for the Kyrgyz.
    1. +8
      29 March 2012 12: 53
      No, there’s nothing for such an ally of Russia, it’s not painfully reliable, it will merge completely for anyone with loot ..
  8. rolik
    +5
    29 March 2012 13: 25
    The solution is simple and obvious, to organize your president in Kyrgyzstan. Examples in bulk. And while he is in power, get in there so that then they don’t even have a thought to make an offer about our departure.
    1. +2
      29 March 2012 22: 23
      Quote: rolik
      The solution is simple and obvious, to organize your president in Kyrgyzstan. Examples in bulk. And while he is in power, get in there so that then they don’t even have a thought to make an offer for our departure

      Ordinary people will only say thanks.
  9. +7
    29 March 2012 14: 16
    Very good article! Shows the "technology" of Chinese expansion very well! It is very useful to familiarize all CHINAFILES who naively believe that there is NO danger from the Katai "quiet" migration, that the arriving Chinese are harmless, good workers, ready to integrate into the society that has accepted them and unselfishly work for its benefit!
    << all these merchants, day laborers, farmers - they are very ideological. They are all patriots of "Greater China", bearers of imperial ideology. Of course, they do not shout about it at every corner, .. But, try to communicate with them, and you will understand that even abroad they are working for the benefit of the big idea of ​​Zhongguo (the Middle State, the Celestial Empire as the center of the Universe). >> So In order not to get a second Tibet in Kyrgyzstan, it is necessary to make clear to the Kyrgyz leadership without politess that with such PROJECTS Kyrgyzstan cannot count on joining the Customs Union, EurAZS ... etc. !!!
  10. +7
    29 March 2012 15: 19
    Article plus. The rest of the emotions (he was born in Alma-Ata himself) - damn it, everything is so (only who is it all?) Yelled for independence, but in the end? - wherever you throw a wedge everywhere
  11. +7
    29 March 2012 15: 23
    So here in Belarus - whatever the project, then everything is with the Chinese. Sad
    1. Marat
      +5
      29 March 2012 22: 31
      It’s just that Belarusians and Chinese are not harmful to trade (neither for them, nor for the Union) - there is no common border and there is no danger of creeping expansion - but there is the benefit of economic benefits and overcoming isolation (so as not to hang only on Russia and Kazakhstan in the conditions of possible Western sanction)

      But for us in Kazakhstan and our southern neighbors, Central Asia, close relations with China are mortally dangerous - there are many examples - they even take their laborers to any construction site. For thousands of years it was a threat and for thousands of years it will remain - it is foolish for Kyrgyzstan to buy into a "cheap divorce"

      Here we must not think about money - but about the safety of children and grandchildren
  12. savelij
    0
    29 March 2012 15: 26
    Kyrgyzstan as prsti ..tutka! Who gave more money, before she spreads her legs wider! Such a policy is inherent in all dwarf countries from the former USSR ...
    1. +1
      29 March 2012 15: 32
      Well, well done! I already said that before prayer one thing, after prayer another.
      Well, just read like a primer. Extra-class prostitutes.
      Need to tilt and have .. fact
  13. 0
    29 March 2012 16: 07
    They are not capable of being independent countries, history has long shown this, only republics as part of a large country.
  14. +1
    29 March 2012 16: 32
    Northern Kyrgyzstan must be annexed to Russia. If you hold a referendum there now, then the majority of the population will vote for joining Russia. For this, instead of the current condom, you need to put your own one, which would hold such a referendum. That's all. There will be no more problems. I also want to remind you that before independence, the Russian population in those parts exceeded the Kyrgyz .. By the way, the famous Panfilov Guards Division consisted of natives of northern Kyrgyzstan.
    1. nnnnnnnnn
      +4
      29 March 2012 17: 06
      Quote: darkman70
      Northern Kyrgyzstan must be attached to Russia

      No, I don’t agree why? It makes no sense, and the President does not decide anything from them, the country is parliamentary.
      Quote: darkman70
      the famous Panfilov Guards Division consisted of natives of northern Kyrgyzstan.
      I do not detract from the merits of the Kyrgyz, but that’s what Wikipedia says the 8th Panfilov’s Guards Division (Panfilov’s Division, Panfilov’s) —the USSR’s military unit, is currently part of the Army of the Kyrgyz Republic. It was originally formed as the 316th Infantry Division from Russians, Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tatars and other peoples living in Semirechye. The division (commander - Major General I.V. Panfilov) was formed in July - August 1941 in Almaty as part of the 1073th, 1075th and 1077th rifle and 857th artillery regiments. I.V. Panfilov served as military commissar of the Kyrgyz SSR. The main skeleton of the division was made up of residents of the city of Alma-Ata and Semirechensky Cossacks of the villages of Lyubavinskaya and Vernenskaya - 1075 rifle regiment, Cossacks of the villages of Nadezhden and Sofia - 1073 rifle regiment, as well as residents of the city of Frunze - 1077 Kyrgyz rifle regiment. She participated in the defense of Moscow in 1941, on November 18, 1941 she received the status of a guard for courage and heroism, on November 23, 1941 she received the name of her commander who died in battle on November 19, and the most offensive division was disbanded in 2003.
  15. tm70-71
    +5
    29 March 2012 17: 04
    Everything in this world is repeated, the funny thing is that everything that we brew will have to dissolve the Russians, the quiet expansion is a fact. In the 19th century, Kyrgyzstan was joined to the Russian Empire at the request of the local bays, the time will come again to beat the brow. And as for the road, there is also a polemic, people don’t want this, let's see how many dough Chinese promise our new bays. We will wait for the 3rd revolution, it not far off, if it begins (God forbid), there will be a lot of blood.

    Yes, I’ll put in my five copecks. Issyk-Kul is the most beautiful thing that I saw and not because I was born and raised there, I just was in many places, I saw it, it’s the cottage of the Lord God, I invite everyone, come and see for yourself !!!
  16. +3
    29 March 2012 17: 13
    while they clatter with Kyrgyzstan, they will break their hands and hit the price, it’s normal, if you speak for a long time it’s weak, you need to form your own party there and sponsor the seizure of power and projects only under the auspices of this party in exchange for all politics in the Eurasian Economic Community, they need to stir up Kazakhs through Kazakhs closer than Russians, so Russia should be in the shadow of Kazakhstan
  17. +3
    29 March 2012 17: 15
    nnnnnnnnn
    No, I don’t agree why?

    Then, that problems need to be solved once and for all.
    I have nothing against the Panfilov division, I just put it a little incorrectly. It was necessary to write "including from the natives of Kyrgyzstan"
    1. nnnnnnnnn
      +5
      29 March 2012 17: 41
      darkman70,
      It’s just that the president of Kyrgyzstan does not decide anything, and if you join the North, what to do with the South, and this is the Ferghana Valley, we will get Sudan in a square and all the other joys of our time.
      1. Marat
        +2
        29 March 2012 22: 39
        Unfortunately, indeed the South of Kyrgyzstan is some kind of insoluble problem! Even if you catch all the bandits and jail the "leaders" - under the very pro-Union leadership - the problem of the South still remains
        and frontier with Uzbekistan

        And no money is enough to raise the standard of living to the Central Union - and smoldering conflict yet -

        One hope is that after 2015 the united Union will come up with something - if there are funds and high oil prices, of course
  18. Oleg0705
    +2
    29 March 2012 17: 39
    Road to the unknown
    Kyrgyz-Chinese resuscitation
    Unprofitable and dangerous
  19. Nechai
    +4
    29 March 2012 20: 50
    Quote: Goldmitro
    They are all patriots of "Greater China", bearers of imperial ideology

    Add - and firmly structured. In fact, a quiet glanders, let it be created, small, scattered around cities and villages, often in its infancy, but parallel to the existing state of the Chinese.
  20. Odinplys
    +1
    30 March 2012 01: 28
    Kubat Rakhimov: The railway to China is the civilizational choice of Kyrgyzstan against Russia and Kazakhstan .........

    The name of the new book ... the road to nowhere ...
  21. Miha_Skif
    +2
    30 March 2012 08: 12
    Transcontinental roads are needed ... Another thing is that letting the Chinese into Kyrgyzstan is a delayed suicide for her. There are well-developed options with other investors. But everything in this fuss with the roads is somehow muddy and incomprehensible. It is only visible that there is a struggle of clans and someone's external interests.

    Another construction option rail: http://polpred.com/?ns=1&ns_id=509494

    The Kyrgyz-German company Temir Royal is ready to build a railway that will connect the south and north of the republic with an outlet to China. This was stated by the co-chairman of the company Nurlan Kurmanbekov at a meeting of the parliamentary faction "Ar-Namys" today, March 5.
    "The Temir Royal company is ready to build the railway" Balykchi - Kochkor - Kara-Keche "," Andijan - Kara-Suu - Arpa - Torugart - Kashgar "," Kara-Keche - Karakol - Arpa ". These lines will unite China, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. The project cost is 2 billion euros. We already have investors, and we do not need funds from the budget. We ask only to lease this land for a period of 49 years and some tax preferences, "KirTAG quotes Kurmanbekov.
    The co-chairman of the Kyrgyz-German company also said that the draft agreement was ready back in 2005, but its implementation was suspended due to the March revolution. According to the calculations of entrepreneurs, the invested funds will pay off in 15-20 years. Kyrgyzstan will receive profit for the transit of goods, 24.kg news agency reported.