Military Review

1917 revolution of the year: from the "bread superpower" to the industrial giant

198
November 7 in Russia and many other countries of the world will mark the centenary of the Great October Socialist Revolution. Under the noise of the film "Matilda", among the documentary investigations about Parvus and talking about various kinds of conspiracies, the meaning of the holiday inevitably eludes people, and if not for this "Red Calendar Day", probably none of us would be present. Why the country could not be, if it were not for a change of lifestyle and revolution - read in the material on the eve of .RU.


A number of historians today not only refute the fact that the revolution was inevitable, but for the sake of conjuncture they distort reality, presenting instead stories the beginning of the century the catastrophe film: the bloody Bolsheviks came to earthly paradise and broke everything. Such an ideology is encouraged at the highest level under the auspices of the “reconciliation” movement. The authorities are forming the myth of the beautiful "Russia that we have lost" and with "great difficulty we acquire back" after the "saints" 90's. Of course, this is a simplification, but the trends are obvious, it seems, to everyone.

In the centenary of the revolution, I would like to recall exactly what the Russian Empire was on the eve of the memorable events, and to stop presenting the desired for the real. No one argues that any state needs an official reading of past events - and Russia is no exception - but the Great October Revolution must take its place of honor.



October 1917 years

"October came, and from 6 to 25 in October, the Bolshevik faction was headed by Trotsky. This faction came to the opening of the Pre-Parliament, where Trotsky delivered a speech, from which it was clear that the course was set for seizing power, that is, an armed uprising, - tells about the revolution Alexander Pyzhikov, Doctor of Historical Sciences and author of the Chronicles of the Revolution, as a historical event. ”He spoke very clearly about the seizure of power. After that, the Bolshevik faction left the meeting of the Pre-Parliament, and this parliament again plunged into sluggish her dying, which already did not arouse any interest in anyone. Lenin and Trotsky - these were the driving forces that took the course of an armed uprising, and they were fully supported by the youth led by Nikolai Ivanovich Bukharin. "

Among the Bolsheviks were those who considered it dangerous to take power in one hand, this part of the party was headed by Zinoviev, Kamenev and Rykov. But no one outside the Bolshevik Party was going to prevent an armed uprising. The pretentious Februaryists and indifferent observers gave the Bolsheviks on the strength of three to four months at the helm of the state. Everyone doubted that they would be able to rule the country, and therefore nobody was going to prevent them from turning their necks. Of course, already the Soviet propaganda created the legends about the brilliant storming of the Winter Palace, about the triumph of justice, necessary for the education of young people.

But in reality, the revolution was so calm and bloodless, that the Bolsheviks, out of modesty, at first called it the "October coup." Much later, when it became clear that a change of structure entailed revolutionary changes in society, in the state and even throughout the world, it was realized that the coup was the "Great October Socialist Revolution."

According to the historian Alexander Pyzhikov, no one was going to oppose Lenin, during the revolution the bourgeoisie was sitting in the taverns and waiting for something. The people are tired of waiting.

1917 revolution of the year: from the "bread superpower" to the industrial giant


“They didn’t protect the monarchy, but now they didn’t protect those who overthrew the monarchy. Nobody was going to defend the Provisional Government on October 25. We know that this storming of the Winter Palace took place was very different from the same July events. The July events were much more serious in Petrograd — in fact, the whole city was in turmoil, extremely tense, shooting indiscriminately — dead here and there. 3-4 July was a tense time, and when the storm of the Winter was under way, people worked in the city storany and theaters. "

"Agrarian Superpower"

Among the first decrees of the Bolsheviks, who came to power, was a decree on the land. Actually, the Februarylists promised this, but they did not fulfill the promises. Here the Gordian knot of the landowner-peasant conflict, which began long before the 1861 year and was only intensified with the reforms of the tsarist government, was cut down immediately and without any complicity.

The fact is that "the liberation of the peasants" gave a benefit, first of all, to the nobles themselves, paradoxically. The peasants were freed and obliged the landowner to allocate allotment of land for the family of the "new farmer" - but the freed serf had no right to give up this land and go to the city, for example, he was obliged to farm for at least nine more years! The free peasant was imposed on a loan — he had to either pay the serfdom and dues to the landowner, or buy out his "settledness" from the sovereign. The state bought communal lands from landowners (at one time the nobles received 80% of the cost) - they allotted the land to the peasants on condition to pay the loan for 49 years (hello, mortgage) to pay the loan, the peasant hired the same landowner or went to the "fist".

That is, it seems, everything has changed, but it remains as before - the peasant was forced to work there and in the same way as before, but he was no longer "serf", but supposedly "completely free" (without the right to leave and without a passport) .

By the way, another advantage for new landowners was that before the reform, our aristocrats from the land had time to lay down and re-pledge the estate and land in the banks so that if 1861 had not arrived a year, many landlords would simply go bankrupt.


October, 1917, Revolution, Civil War, peasants, workers, November 7, Great October, socialist revolution | Photo:

Thus, as a result of the reforms, landowners turned into capitalist "enterprises" for selling grain abroad. The major bread oligarchs were about 30 thousand people, and 70 million dessiatines of land concentrated in their hands, with a steady increase in grain prices for the ruling class, the situation became very profitable. These "enterprises" supplied 47% of grain exports. Here it is - the very 1% (700 families) elitarians, closely connected with the yard, it is their life and life that we see on the big screens in the films about “Russia that we have lost”; for some reason, they consider their ancestors 99% of children proletarians in the vastness of our post-perestroika country.

The hungry riots were suppressed, the peasants were not released from the villages, the peasant was cruel to starvation, then from the war, so looking for conspiracies "from outside" in a spontaneous "peasant" revolution means not to notice the obvious.


October, 1917, Revolution, Civil War, peasants, workers, November 7, Great October, socialist revolution | Photo:

And what have we lost?

The monarchists say that it was necessary to wait a little longer, and life would be much better - after all, the Russian Empire was developing so rapidly, especially in industrial terms.

Indeed, Russia took the path of the countries of developed capitalism, industrial production grew, but even half a century after the start of the 1861 reforms, the huge country accounted for only 4,4% of world industrial production. For comparison, the United States gave 35,8% (Oleg Arin, "Truth and fiction about Tsarist Russia"). 80% of the population at the beginning of the industrial 20 century in the Russian Empire were peasants. The village was engaged in hard manual labor - like 100 years ago, and only 12,6% of the population were citizens - this is not enough for industrialization. The middle class was absent, and the bourgeoisie was not an independent political force. Yes, there were factories and plants - at least a little, but they were. Here is another question - to whom they belonged? Not the Russian people. And not even the king-father. Most industry was owned by foreigners.

"Despite the rather high rates of economic growth, the Russian economy was an ugly brainchild of completely different economic structures - from patriarchal to feudal and bourgeois. And at the same time, for example, foreign capital dominated such advanced industries as oil industry, iron production, coal mining, steel and iron smelting, ”historian Yevgeny Spitsyn said in an interview with Nakanune.RU.“ The banking sector of the Russian Empire was largely supported by foreign loans and from the largest banks Russia is only one of the Volga-Vyatka could rightly be called Russian bank. And in such giants as the St. Petersburg International Bank, the Russian-Chinese bank, the Azov-Don Bank, a significant part of the capital and assets owned by our foreign "partners".

What is this "industrialization"?

In modern myth-making about pre-revolutionary Russia, the motive "Under Nicholas II, industrialization began" is strong. Interestingly, they did not know such words in tsarist Russia (it appeared only in disputes at congresses of the Bolshevik party at the end of the 20s). But, nevertheless, the need for accelerated industrial development was also discussed during the reign of the king, the first factories and plants also appeared at this time. But can we talk about the industrialization of our state, if most of the industrial capital was foreign?

In 1912, such a popular and important industry as the textile industry belonged to the Germans by half. The matter was worse in metallurgy and machine building, industries traditionally considered to be the basis for industrialization - industrial sectors belonged to the Germans 71,8% (noteworthy - and this is on the eve of the war with Germany ?!), on 12,6% - to the French capital, on 7,4% - to Belgian capital. The Russian bourgeoisie had only 8,2% of the industry ("The Revolution that Saved Russia," Rustem Vakhitov). This was the case with industrialization - yes, it was, but not in the Russian Empire.

“Yes, there were industries owned by foreign capital on 90. If someone else’s furniture was brought to your apartment, it won’t become yours. For example, factories were built in a number of current developing countries, but they belong to transnational corporations,” the historian comments. and publicist Andrei Fursov in an interview with Nakanune.RU.

By the way, the same situation was in the field of finance - one third of all commercial banks in Russia were foreign. It is worth noting that foreigners were not interested in qualified personnel - they brought their specialists to manage, and Russian peasants who went to work in the city, used for hard and simple work, without caring about health care, or working conditions, or advanced training (paid and then once).


October, 1917, Revolution, Civil War, peasants, workers, November 7, Great October, socialist revolution | Photo:

"We will not finish, but we will take out!"

As for the high export figures, which monarchists now brave about, considering that a country that exported so much grain cannot be considered poor - then it is worth noting that, indeed, the export of grain was large. Russia exported bread, which was often lacked by the peasants themselves, and in exchange imported cars and manufactured goods. It is difficult to call it industrialization. Well developed only railways, and this is understandable - the country traded, it was necessary to deliver grain to the Europeans.

The export data is really admirable - 1900 million poods were exported in 418,8, 1913 million poods were already taken out in 647,8 (Pokrovsky, "Foreign trade and foreign trade policy of Russia"). But only at what point with such a pace of export of raw materials did the Russian Empire suddenly become a country of "developed capitalism"?

No, it draws more on the raw state, appendage to the developed countries or, as historians sneer, the Russian Empire was a "bread superpower."


infographics, "bread superpower", which we lost | Photo: On the eve.RU

If we talk about success, the Russian Empire very successfully fit into the system of world capitalism as a source of cheap resources. Today we are told that Russia was the world leader in the export of grain - yes, it is. But at the same time, Russia had the lowest yield!

"In 1913, Russia supplies the world market with 22,1% grain, while Argentina 21,3%, USA 12,5%, Canada 9,58%, Holland 8,74%, Romania 6,62%, India 5,62%, Germany 5,22%, - writes Yuri Bakharev in the book" About grain production in Tsarist Russia. ”- And despite the fact that grain yields in 1908-1912 in Russia were around 8 centners per hectare, and in France and the USA - 12,4, in England - 20, in Holland - 22. 1913 was collected in Russia 30,3 puds of grain per capita. In the US - 64,3 pounds, in Argentina - 87,4 pounds, in Canada - 121 pounds. "

Historians call the primitiveness of agricultural technology and the objective geographical conditions the reasons for such indicators. But this is the reason that the tsarist government continued to export bread to the Western countries, which was needed by its own peasants - a mystery. Although ... not so difficult - wheat and barley from the village turned into gold, money and shares for landowners, bankers and the highest aristocracy. The elite had to live no less well than the western, and for expensive pleasures, luxury goods went about half of the profits for export.

The historian Sergey Nefedov in his work “On the causes of the Russian revolution” writes that in 1907, the income from the sale of grain amounted to 431 million rubles. 180 million rubles, 140 million rubles were spent on luxury goods. Russian nobles left in foreign resorts. Well, and the modernization of the industry (the supposedly industrialization) received only 58 million rubles. (Rustem Vakhitov "The Revolution That Saved Russia"). Do not forget that every two or three years in the agrarian country pockets of hunger broke out (because of poor harvests, for example), but the government continued to carry wagons with grain along fine railways abroad.

When Vyshnegradsky, the author of the immortal phrase "We do not finish, but we will take out", the export of bread doubled. If even then they spoke of the need for industrialization - why did they continue to feed the elite at the expense of exported bread? What part of the wealth of the land went to industry, development, schools? It becomes clear that the necessary changes in the economy and industry were simply impossible without a change of lifestyle. Without a "change of energy."


infographics, "bread superpower" that we lost, grain collection, Russian Empire, USSR | Photo: On the eve of.RU

Energy change

"The tsarist government could not solve the agrarian problem, it could not cut the knot of contradictions between the nobility and the bourgeoisie, and the economic problems of Russia at the beginning of the 20 century were not economically resolved. They could be solved only by social means. That is, by social reorganization," says Nakanune. RU historian and publicist Andrei Fursov. - For Russia, the fate of the Western semi-colony was prepared. By the way, not only left-wing thinkers, but also thinkers of the opposite camp, for example, Nikolay Osipovich Menshik, understood this well. who wrote that if no "change of energies" occurred in Russia - he could not write a "revolution" in those conditions, he wrote "social energies", but by this he meant a revolution - then Russia was destined colonies of the West. "

Experts believe that contemporaries should recognize the merits of the socialist revolution and pay tribute to Lenin as a historical figure, objectively analyze the period, and not demonize him. The British, French and Americans recognize their revolutions and civil wars as important milestones in history, despite the contradictions left in society — some in France are under the Jacobin terror, and many Americans are outraged that Lincoln himself was a slave owner, there are also English people totally dissatisfied with Cromwell. But no one in the world descends to denigrating his own history, especially when there are more reasons for pride than reasons for grief.

"In the very difficult conditions that were in our country after October 1917, the Soviet Union demonstrated not only its uniqueness, but also the highest efficiency. The principles on the basis of which the system of government, economics, security and even culture functioned were radically different from foreign analogues, says Nikita Danyuk, Deputy Director of the Institute of Strategic Studies and Forecasts of RUDN, in a conversation with Nakanune.RU. - A backward and half-ruined country weakened after the First M "In a short period of time, a bloody civil war turned into a powerful state that began to dictate its conditions in the international arena, creating an effective and attractive alternative to the development of the state and society. Without the Great October Socialist Revolution, there would have been no Victory in the Great Patriotic War."


collage, October revolution, Wehrmacht, man in space, Lenin | Photo: On the eve.RU

The development of the Russian state stalled at the stage of the “agrarian superpower”; the empire, in captivity of its own elitarians, put an end to the development of industry. Without a revolution and a “land” decree, a country could not exist further in a world where other states had moved to a new technological level.

“There is Stalin’s famous expression that we have lagged behind the advanced countries by 50-100 years, and we will either run this distance in 10 years, or they will crush us. A radical change in the socio-economic system is the result of the October revolution. Then people reduce this 50-year lag. This is the fundamental, most tangible result of the October Revolution, "- said in a conversation with Nakanune.RU Doctor of Historical Sciences, former State Duma deputy Vyacheslav Tetekin.

Not "bloody Bolsheviks" destroyed the country - by the beginning of the 20 century Russia approached the already split, there were two "nations": the ruling stratum on the one hand and 80% of the subordinate people on the other. The two "nations" even spoke different languages ​​and seemed to be living at different times, so the Russian village lagged behind the world in the 20 century. Moreover, some historians call these 80% of peasants the inner colony of the Russian Empire, due to which the aristocracy could maintain a defiantly high standard of living.

The revolution as a fundamental change in the socio-economic and political structure became the resolution of the conflict. A wave of social discontent was felt. Fevralisty tried to smooth it, and Lenin decided to lead. The king denied - so fell autocratic nobility government. After February, the bourgeois government was unable to keep the country united, a "parade of sovereignties" began, chaos, the collapse of the state. And only then on the stage appeared first small, but rapidly growing "there is such a party." Yes, in 1917, the change in the structure has not yet taken place, historian Andrei Fursov reminds. And after the relatively quiet seizure of power in front, the Bolsheviks had a period of civil war — defense of the revolution and struggle against the interventionists (who in many ways provoked the civil war). Then followed the period of the NEP.

"It was only from the end of 20 that the socialist reconstruction of society really began. In addition, for ten years after the October Revolution, there was a struggle between the left-wing globalists who started the revolution in Russia so that it could become the ignition of the world revolution in the leadership of the Bolsheviks, people like Stalin, who proceeded from the need to build socialism in one particular country, ”says Andrei Fursov.“ That's when these forces won by the end of the 20-s, the socialist transition really began a triple of society. As a result, a society of systemic anti-capitalism arose - the Soviet system, which solved the problems that the autocracy could not solve for centuries. And the people who came "from below" became brilliant designers, military leaders, scientists. The result of this reorganization is the prologue which was the Great October Socialist Revolution, and became the Soviet society. The only society in history built on the ideals of social justice. "
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https://www.nakanune.ru/articles/113415/
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  1. tanatos49
    tanatos49 4 November 2017 04: 40
    10
    what nonsense ...
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 November 2017 04: 56
      11
      Quote: tanatos49
      what nonsense ...

      in what
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 4 November 2017 07: 35
      10
      Quote: tanatos49
      what nonsense ...

      The usual naive propaganda poster, which 70 years fed the country
      The avtorsha put herself in a ridiculous position by publishing grain harvesting iconography: to achieve the yield of 1913, after all the Tatanic “battles for bread” and “outstanding” collective farm construction, onlyabout to the mid 1950s (except for the only super-yielding 1937).!

      A man, according to the author, went wild with hunger under the “damned” tsarism, but what happened to him when he ate 1937-1940% LESS in 30 than 40 than in 1913 ?! And they dressed, by the way, also WORSE worse than 1913.
      Moreover, I note that in1913 they ate better than in 1910, in 1914 it was better than in 1913, i.e. growth went from year to year. But with the built (in 1937) socialism, such uncomfortable numbers ...
      We are waiting for the author’s explanation that a person, eating and dressing worse, lived, nevertheless, better.
      By the way, about the "lived": The amount of living space per citizen in 1913, the Soviet citizen reached only in 1960 g
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 4 November 2017 07: 53
        10
        "And the people who came" from below "became brilliant designers, military leaders, scientists."
        This is funny! Question - ALL steel? Or were 40% busy with heavy, unproductive manual labor? So under the tsar was Lomononosov, and Menshikov first traded pies ...
        More opportunities to go up? Yes, it has become! But not by exception, it is necessary to evaluate the system, but by "mass."
        And the way up was always. Here is what Pushkin wrote about:
        My grandfather did not sell pancakes,
        Not waxed royal boots,
        I didn’t sing with the court clerks,
        I didn’t jump to the princes from Ukrainians,
        And he was not a fugitive soldier
        Austrian powdery squads;
        That is, very different people became counts and princes ... both merchants and ... inventors ...
        But even in the USSR not every pupil of a furrier became a marshal, right?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 4 November 2017 09: 07
          12
          Quote: kalibr
          But not by exception, it is necessary to evaluate the system, but by "mass."

          And this is correct, but for the most part ordinary people began to live better, and the USSR as a whole in economy became the first in the world.
          1. RusArmy235
            RusArmy235 4 November 2017 09: 36
            16
            Quote: Boris55
            And this is correct, but for the most part ordinary people began to live better, and the USSR as a whole in economy became the first in the world.

            I agree! yes Here is a short list of the results that were achieved thanks to the Great October Revolution:
            - The growth of industrial production in 4,5 times only for 1928-1937.
            - USSR output to 2nd place in the world (after the USA) in terms of industrial production.
            - The growth rate of industrial production held in the 30-50s. at the level of 15-25% per year.
            - Bridging the gap between developed capitalist countries in industrial production per capita.
            - The working class grew from 4,6 million in 1922 to 19,7 million in 1940 and to 25,2 million in 1950, its education and qualifications increased many times over. The agrarian overpopulation that generated low land and rural unemployment was eliminated.
            - A new scientific, technical and creative intelligentsia grew out of workers and peasants. The USSR became the first country to build a nuclear power plant and launch a man into space; the third - created the computer.
            - The transformation of the USSR into a powerful industrial power, economically independent of other countries.
            - Creation of the defense industry, providing the Red Army with everything necessary for the Victory, arming it with jet aircraft, missiles, and nuclear weapons after the war.
            - As a result of collectivization, the energy supply of peasant labor had already increased by 1940 times by 1928 compared to 22, the development of agriculture had gone along an intensive path with little government expenditures compared to world practice. The collective farms were able to provide the country with stable food even during the years of World War II, when fertile lands were in the zone of occupation.
            - The salvation of Europe from fascism, and Asia - from Japanese militarism. The collapse of the colonial system.
            - The expansion of the territory of the USSR, the inclusion of almost the entire territory of the Russian Empire, as well as East Prussia, the return of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands.
            - The economy of the USSR after the war was restored in one five-year period 1946-1950 - earlier than in Europe.
            - The formation of a socialist camp - a whole group of countries building socialism, successfully opposing the aggressive aspirations of the United States and NATO. good
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 4 November 2017 10: 39
              +9
              And what was next, do not remember?
              I agree! yes Here is a short list of the results that were achieved thanks to the Great October Revolution: (And how did it end?)
              - The growth of industrial production in 4,5 times only for 1928-1937.
              - USSR output to the 2-th place in the world (After the USA) in terms of industrial production.
              - The growth rate of industrial production was held in the 30-50-ies. at the level of 15-25% per year. (And then the recession began, in the 80s ... why not?)
              - Bridging the gap between the developed capitalist countries in industrial production per capita (and jeans did not learn how to do this, and FIAT became Zhiguli)
              - The working class has grown from 4,6 million in 1922 to 19,7 million in 1940 (the village has sunk into the city and changed its public consciousness!) To 25,2 million in 1950, its education and qualifications have increased many times. The agrarian overpopulation that generated low land and rural unemployment was eliminated (and they began to send workers to the village to work!)
              - A new scientific, technical and creative intelligentsia grew out of workers and peasants. The USSR became the first country to build a nuclear power plant and launch a man into space; the third - creating a computer. (And then dropped several satellites from nuclear weapons and Chernobyl also took place)
              - Transformation of the USSR into a powerful industrial power, economically independent of other countries. (And where did you get pipes for oil and gas pipelines from?)
              - Creation of the defense industry, providing the Red Army with everything necessary for the Victory, arming it with jet aircraft, missiles, and nuclear weapons after the war. (And a larger number of missiles, tanks and nuclear submarines did not save from 91 of the year!)
              - As a result of collectivization, the energy supply of peasant labor has already increased by 1940 compared to 1928 by 22 times, the development of agriculture has gone along an intensive path at low government costs compared to world practice. The collective farms were able to provide the country with stable food even during the years of World War II, when the fertile lands were in the zone of occupation. )
              - The salvation of Europe from fascism, and Asia - from Japanese militarism. The collapse of the colonial system. (And today, where are we in the number of totalitarian sects?)
              - The expansion of the territory of the USSR, the inclusion of almost the entire territory of the Russian Empire, as well as East Prussia, the return of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands. (First expanded, and then narrowed!)
              - The economy of the USSR after the war was restored in one five-year period 1946-1950 - earlier than in Europe. (All the time something was missing)
              - The formation of a socialist camp - a whole group of countries building socialism, successfully opposing the aggressive aspirations of the United States and NATO. (And where is this camp? And where are yesterday's allies? The American missiles are deployed on their territory!)
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 4 November 2017 10: 27
            12
            Quote: Boris55
            began to live better, and the USSR as a whole in the economy became the first in the world.

            Compared to what? On missiles? Yes ... for everything else, by no means.
            1. San Sanych
              San Sanych 4 November 2017 12: 14
              12
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: Boris55
              began to live better, and the USSR as a whole in the economy became the first in the world.

              Compared to what? On missiles? Yes ... for everything else, by no means.

              there wouldn’t be rockets, there wouldn’t be the rest, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya and Syria are the most obvious examples
              1. Nicholas C.
                Nicholas C. 4 November 2017 13: 54
                +5
                Quote: kalibr
                And what was next, do not remember?

                Shpakovsky, what do you have to tell us?
                That damned tsarists ruined Russia for 1000 years, and the Bolsheviks dealt with this issue in 74 years? Do I understand you correctly?
              2. kalibr
                kalibr 4 November 2017 13: 56
                +3
                Yes there wasn’t! But just the rest they did not save ...
                1. San Sanych
                  San Sanych 4 November 2017 14: 15
                  +7
                  Well then, go to Syria for permanent residence, do not torment yourself beloved, here in Russia, maybe then you will understand what is good and what is bad
            2. Boris55
              Boris55 4 November 2017 14: 10
              12
              Quote: kalibr
              Compared to what?

              Compared to this.

              80-85 percent of tsarist Russia was peasants.
              Quote: kalibr
              - The growth rate of industrial production was held in the 30-50-ies. at the level of 15-25% per year. (And then the recession began, in the 80s ... why not?)

              After the assassination of Stalin, the reverse process ended with 90 mi. And by the way, you got an education in the USSR - don't you regret it?
              1. albert
                albert 4 November 2017 20: 05
                11
                Quote: Boris55
                Compared to this.

                So today
          3. kalibr
            kalibr 4 November 2017 10: 47
            +3
            Have you read my material ... "about red bugs"? What year is this?
        2. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 5 November 2017 00: 05
          +7
          Quote: kalibr
          That is, very different people became counts and princes ... both merchants and ... inventors ...

          Well, how many millions of commoners can you count who became counts, generals, inventors in imperial times? And remember your lectures on the History of the CPSU, how many millions of ordinary people in the USSR received higher education, and became scientists, engineers, inventors, and officers, including generals and marshals?
        3. badens1111
          badens1111 7 November 2017 08: 46
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          But even in the USSR not every pupil of a furrier became a marshal, right?

          So what?
          In general, people lived much better. What do you constantly lie?
          If the USSR had not collapsed, its gross domestic product (GDP) would have been equal to the American one, said Chen Enfu, director of the Institute of Marxism of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, chairman of the World Political Economy Association, at an international conference on November 6, the IA correspondent reports. Red spring.

          In his words at the first plenary session, Chen Enfu expressed the theory of two if. If fascist Germany had not attacked the Soviet Union, then its GDP would now be equal to US GDP, the head of the Institute of Marxism of the PRC noted. Chen Enfu continued, even if the USSR hadn’t collapsed in 1991 after the German attack, its GDP would also be equal to the American one.
          But you chose something else, didn’t you, sincerely began to curse the recent, to whom praises with the same pleasure, being a party worker.
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 4 November 2017 09: 55
        23
        Quote: Olgovich
        By the way, about the "lived": The amount of living space per citizen in 1913, the Soviet citizen reached only in 1960

        Well, the anti-Soviet came to write garbage with a smart look.
        Only you first say that the rural population in RI in 1913 was 85% !!! population!
        And out of 15% of city dwellers, housing was "distributed" by class. That is, you know, a breeder or a merchant could occupy entire palace complexes or houses, but hired workers with a family-room in the basement!
        And you probably did not read the literary works of those times? Not interested? Gilyarovsky, "At the bottom" or about Vanya Zhukov wink Start with Vani - it will be more accessible for you at this stage wink
        It’s a pity all the same that the “minus” was canceled, because for such nonsense you would have had “skulls” by noon, you are our accountant yes
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 4 November 2017 11: 54
          +8
          Quote: Stroporez
          Well, the anti-Soviet came to write garbage with a smart look.

          Refute the FACTS.
          Quote: Stroporez
          Only you first say that the rural population in RI in 1913 was 85% !!! population!
          And out of 15% of city dwellers, housing was "distributed" by class. That is, you know, a breeder or a merchant could occupy entire palace complexes or houses, but hired workers with a family-room in the basement!
          And you probably did not read the literary works of those times? Not interested? Gilyarovskogo, "At the Bottom" or about Vanya Zhukov Start with Vanya - this will be more accessible for you at this stage

          take an interest in boring little numbers (these are not slogans to throw) entering HOUSING in the 1930s — it was built LESS in a year than in 1918. Where did many millions of new citizens settle? To cellars, dugouts, attics and corridors ...
          Quote: Stroporez
          It’s a pity all the same that the “minus” was canceled, because for such rubbish “skulls” you would have by noon, accountant you are ours

          Do you replace the numbers with slogans? Maybe in the shops they are calculated, branding and shaming damned exploiters? lol
          1. Pushkar
            Pushkar 4 November 2017 13: 24
            12
            Quote: Olgovich

            Refute the FACTS.
            The facts are in Naro-Fominsk near Moscow. Opposite the silk factory are two remarkable buildings - dormitories. These are rebuilt pre-revolutionary barracks for workers. It is the barracks with bunks. The "bunkers" there were called bunks, "fenced off" by a chintz curtain. Workers fed on credit in a shop owned by the owners, merchants Yakunchikov. The goods were crappy, prices were unreasonable, so a lifelong bondage to the workers was provided. This is truly described by Gilyarovsky. Anyway, in 1913, Russia was 7th largest in industry in Europe (in 1913 a 4% increase in GDP), and by 1983 the USSR was in 2nd place in the world (average GDP growth from 1922 to 1990 - 15% per year) . In 2017, GDP growth is expected to be 2%.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 November 2017 15: 16
              +2
              Quote: Pushkar
              The facts are in Naro-Fominsk near Moscow. Opposite the silk factory are two remarkable buildings - dormitories. These are rebuilt pre-revolutionary barracks for workers. It is the barracks with bunks. "

              STONE barracks are still standing.
              The barracks of the 30s were wooden and had long decayed and there was no more space in them.
          2. sibiryouk
            sibiryouk 4 November 2017 14: 36
            10
            Just in the 30s, whole cities were built - Komsomolsk, Novokuznetsk, Murmansk, Nikopol and etc.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 November 2017 15: 20
              +2
              Quote: sibiryouk
              Just in the 30s, whole cities were built - Komsomolsk, Novokuznetsk, Murmansk, Nikopol and etc.

              Romanov-on-Murman-type in a search engine, like Nikopol, so as not to write THIS ..
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 4 November 2017 20: 07
                +9
                Olgovich "Romanov-on-Murman-type in a search engine, like Nikopol, so as not to write THIS .."
                And why not?))) Where there was production it was expanded. Cities were completed and they became larger. In the north of the Urals, even in the years 41-43, during the war, cities were built. Yes, at first they built barracks. Over time, people settled. In my opinion, it is clear that first they built factories, workshops, and then housing. The priority was production, and only then everything else. In the 30s there were not so many resources, hence the priorities. Although of course it was possible to build houses for workers and be good.))) And who needs production?)))
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 5 November 2017 07: 28
                  +3
                  Quote: Nagaibak
                  Why not?

                  They promised WHAT? Do not remember? A life better than under tsarism. And what did they give in reality? In the constructed socialism "1937 dressed", ate, lived, developed spiritually -worsethan in 1913.
                  This data is top-secret of the most statistics. Would IT choose people?
                  1. Nagaibak
                    Nagaibak 5 November 2017 10: 48
                    +5
                    Olgovich, "In the Built Socialism of 1937, Dressed", ate, lived, developed spiritually, worse than in 1913. "
                    Yes ... my grandfather graduated from three classes of the parish school under the tsar-priest. Awesome they developed there.))) And with the bloody dictatorship of the Communists, he was educated and worked as a drilling foreman.)))
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 5 November 2017 12: 15
                      +2
                      Quote: Nagaibak
                      Yes ... my grandfather graduated from three classes of the parish school under the tsar-priest. Awesome they developed there.))) And with the bloody dictatorship of the Communists, he was educated and worked as a drilling foreman.)))

                      Of course, it's awesome: under the tsar there was freedom of speech, opinion, conscience, parties — choose according to your liking, compare, teach and read what you LIKE.
                      Under the next government: one party, no freedom of speech, no opinion, NOTHING.
                      Do you think this is not ugly citizens?
                      In addition, I repeat: Under the "built socialism" of 1937, dressed, ate, lived worse, than in 1913, this is an owl. statistics.
                      This is normal?
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 5 November 2017 12: 54
                        +6
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        In addition, I repeat: Under the "built socialism" of 1937, dressed, ate, lived worse, than in 1913, this is an owl. statistics.

                        Once again, they mounted a famous white horse and wave a saber while chopping with the banner of Kumachov, without any hope of victory?
                        When do you stop lying?
                        During the second five-year period, the USSR overtook the UK and France in terms of production of pig iron, steel, electricity. In a report to the Central Committee of the XVIII Congress of the Party, Stalin presented a table from which it followed that the USSR was ahead of all capitalist countries in terms of growth.

                        Commenting on the data in the table, Stalin remarked: “Our industry has grown by more than nine times compared with the pre-war level, while the industry of the main capitalist countries continues to stagnate around the pre-war level, exceeding it by only 20-30 percent. This means that according to the rate of growth, our socialist industry is in first place in the world. "
                        “By the end of 1937, the output of the entire industry of the USSR grew 2,2 times compared to 1932, 4,5 times compared to 1928 (the United States took almost 40 years to achieve this growth of industry — from about 1890 to 1929), 5,9 1913 times compared to 8,1. Large-scale industry products grew 1913 times compared to 2,4 and 1932 times compared to 80. 1% of all industrial production was received from new or radically reconstructed enterprises for the 2st and XNUMXnd five-year plan ...

                        Industry in 1937 produced about 200 thousand cars (in 1932 about 24 thousand), more than 176 thousand tractors (in terms of 15-horsepower) ... Due only to overfulfillment of the plan in the field of increasing labor productivity in 1937, almost as much was produced as the entire factory industry in Russia in 1913.
                        http://ussrlife.blogspot.ru/2013/01/1937-76.html?
                        m = 1
                        So continue to lie further, turning the FORUM into a ridiculous amount.
                        against this data you should be silent and not disgraced at all.
                        http://www.contrtv.ru/common/2505
                      2. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 5 November 2017 19: 06
                        +6
                        Olgovich "In addition, I repeat: Under the" built socialism "of 1937, dressed, ate, lived worse, than in 1913 — this is Soviet statistics."
                        Though for repeat.)) L.N. Tolstoy wrote that in Russia hunger does not come when bread did not malfunction, but when quinoa did not mild.))) And?))))
                        Olgovich "Of course, it's awesome: under the tsar there was freedom of speech, opinion, conscience, parties — choose according to your liking, compare, teach and read what you LIKE."
                        And if you don’t like it, they’ll stupidly shoot you.))) Lenski shooting and Bloody Sunday are an example.)))
                        Olgovich "Under the next government: one party, no freedom of speech, no opinion, NOTHING."
                        Yeah, nothing.))) Refuse immediately from the benefits listed below.))) More precisely, what is left of this list.))) You still use it and do not blush.))) But we should refuse.)) ) If you are such a principal critic of the Communists.))))

                        1. The right to an eight-hour working day. For the first time in the world in the history of mankind.
                        2. The right to annual paid leave. For the first time in the world in the history of mankind.
                        3. The right to free general and vocational education. Moreover, both secondary vocational education and higher education. For the first time in the world.
                        4. The right to free use of kindergartens: nurseries, kindergartens, pioneer camps. For the first time in the world.
                        5. The right to free medical care. For the first time in the world.
                        6. The right to free spa treatment. For the first time in the world.
                        7. The right to free housing. For the first time in the world.


                        8. The impossibility of dismissing an employee on the initiative of the administration or the owner without the consent of the trade union and party organization.
                        9. The right to work, to the opportunity to earn a living by one’s labor. Moreover, graduates of professional educational institutions had the right to compulsory employment in the labor direction with the provision of housing in the form of a dormitory or apartment.
                        10. The right to free travel to a place of work or study under an individual travel document paid by the state. For the first time in the world.
                        Also maternity leave and universal suffrage. Let there be no "democracy", but women went to the polls and voted. In the west they were not allowed on the threshold. And in our beloved Russian empire, and under the tsars? How was the election? Democracy say?)))
          3. Looking for
            Looking for 5 November 2017 19: 33
            +1
            YOU are very similar to the current Ukrainian "patriots" salivating. That .. "... in Ukraine (the pronoun" is "-enematic), the rise, heyday, and the strongest army in Europe, and in Russia, ruin. Collapse and pseudo-army, t .e. facts that do not fit into your concept, you ignore. but all that is beneficial to you. you inflate to indecent.
          4. Ehanatone
            Ehanatone 16 February 2018 22: 07
            -1
            Bullshit of the gray olgovich
        2. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 4 November 2017 12: 06
          16
          Quote: Stroporez
          And out of 15% of city dwellers, housing was "distributed" by class. That is, you know, a breeder or a merchant could occupy entire palace complexes or houses, but hired workers with a family-room in the basement!

          Yes, yes, only you forget about housing prices and salaries in the Republic of Ingushetia. "Room in the basement" - the lot of lumpen who did not know how to work and drank money in taverns. http://www.zrd.spb.ru/news/2013-01/news-0287.htm
          And you forget about the free factory housing that the "oppressor-capitalists" built for the workers
          However, since the end of the 10th century, the general tendency has become the construction of improved design by the owners of enterprises of working dwellings. Thus, in Borovichi, the owners of a ceramic factory of acid-resistant products, engineers, the Kolyankovsky brothers, built for their workers in the village of Velgia wooden one-story houses with separate exits and personal plots. A worker could purchase this housing on credit. The initial contribution amount was only XNUMX rubles.
          Thus, by 1913 only 30,4% of our workers lived in rented apartments. The remaining 69,6% had free housing.

          Source: http://www.opoccuu.com/rab1913.htm#Russian Housing
          _worker
          So the living conditions in RI for workers were still better than in the USSR of the 30s with barracks for workers, where water and a toilet were on the street ... https://maxim-nm.livejournal.com/282950.html
          PS They would be ashamed to cite Semin as a proof of "comrade", who in his every word violently covers "capitalism", while he calmly studied in the "imperialist" USA.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 4 November 2017 13: 08
            17
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            And you forget about the free factory housing that the "oppressor-capitalists" built for the workers

            The fact is that I live in the old working city of the Central Federal District and I have known all these factory royal huts since childhood. My ancestors were "Kazyukaks" (if that’s what you’re talking about), here the Kazyuk had private houses or private apartments, but hired the workers lived in barracks, slept in three-tiered beds, and when the shift went to work, she was replaced by the shift that came from work, the floors in these barracks were earthen.
            The working shift was 12 hours !!!
            Mercenary, but in fact the former serfs were used in the most difficult work - foundries, stokers, etc. In the absence of hygiene and medical care, almost 100% suffered from chronic diseases, mainly consumption. Therefore, the Cossacks tried not to communicate with them at all.
            For half a year, the hut was updated by 50%, due to high mortality. The dead were buried, not in our cemetery (the land was bought by local Kazyuki 100 years ago), but near 50 meters in a ravine, without special ceremonies, but with a cross (at the expense of the factory). My great-grandmother gave the local booster 5 kopecks. Copper, and that once a month, when every two weeks, went to the graves and shook his censer there, well, that is, the funeral service.
            At the weekend, the mercenaries took several buckets of vodka in the tavern and reveled, in the winter many froze and froze to death. Sometimes they drove women, therefore veins. Diseases also knocked out.
            Great-grandmothers were compassionate and sometimes gave hired half a loaf of bread. But if the husband saw, then the flogging was guaranteed !!!
            My great-grandfathers forced me to work for about seven years already, they taught the profession, so that by 11-12 they could already do quite a difficult job ......
            My great-great-grandmother, Maria Ilyinichna, was a merchant of the 2 guilds, therefore she lived more freely, but she made everyone work the same way, did not litter with money and did not indulge any of the family, although she bought sweets for children on Sunday and drove them somewhere to the carousels and the fair.

            Such was the life under the tsar-priest.
            Otherwise, the people would not rebel !!!!
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 4 November 2017 15: 04
              14
              If I understand you correctly, then the "Kazyuki" are Tula arms workers, right? Without completely questioning the stories preserved in your family, I still allow myself to ask the following two questions:
              a) what year are your recollections dated? Working conditions of workers in 1890, 1900 and 1910 were very different, and in the direction of improvement.
              b) If mortality in a hut reached half of those living in six months, what place did the plant manager think, since already at that time the factory worker needed minimal training in the rules for handling equipment in production? It is easier and more profitable for a plant to take care of reducing mortality among workers than to spend money on the constant training of new workers or to eliminate breakdowns caused by workers' lack of education.
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 4 November 2017 19: 57
                +8
                Lieutenant Teterin "If the mortality rate in a hut reached half of those living in six months, what place did the plant manager think, due to the fact that even at that time the factory worker needed minimal training in the rules for handling equipment in production?"
                What equipment is there?))) What are you talking about? This category of workers was used in jobs where qualifications were not required. Marshal of the USSR Shaposhnikov has memories. In them, he describes how the authorities and masters of the Simsk plant moved around the city on the spans.))) For he did not want to get cobblestones from the bulldozer. Seeing their benefactors, the workers threw stones at them.))) As a sign of gratitude for the high standard of living, salaries are high and wonderful penalties. Although what am I talking about?))) Lenin and the sealed car are to blame for everything.)))
              2. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 4 November 2017 23: 56
                +2
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                If I understand you correctly, then the "Kazyuki" are Tula arms workers, right?

                Well, not quite like that, it is a separate caste of master workers who had the right to work at home, not to pay taxes and taxes, not to serve in the army and to enjoy the special freedoms and privileges granted to them by Peter1.
              3. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 5 November 2017 00: 11
                +5
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                If I understand you correctly, then the "Kazyuki" are Tula arms workers, right?

                Well, not quite like that, it is a separate caste of master workers who had the right to work at home, not to pay taxes and taxes, not to serve in the army and to enjoy the special freedoms and privileges granted to them by Peter1.
                a) what year are your recollections dated?

                Until the 1917 revolution.
                b) If mortality in a hut reached half of those living in six months, then what place did the plant manager think

                In the nearby villages the farm laborers were over the edge, and since their life was even worse, they went to work.
                At that time, did the factory worker need minimal training in the rules for handling equipment in production?

                These workers were “migrants” of the time keep in mind completely illiterate.

                In all pre-revolutionary RI there were only 72 high schools !!!
                I emphasize the average!


                All Masters passed on their skills exclusively to their sons, who were taught in families and then in estate schools.

                I note one more fact, my grandmother Antonina Ivanovna was a member of the party of the CPSU (B.) Since January 1924 !!!

                Do you still have questions about the bright life of commoners under the kings ???
                1. Nagaibak
                  Nagaibak 5 November 2017 10: 54
                  +4
                  Stroporez "In all pre-revolutionary RI there were only 72 high schools !!!
                  I emphasize the average! "
                  Yes, what are you telling such horrors here!))) They don’t understand, sir!))) Well, it’s couch monarchists aristocrats.))) It’s all nobles.)))
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 6 November 2017 14: 25
                    +2
                    Quote: Nagaibak
                    Yes, what are you telling such horrors here!))) They don’t understand, sir!))) Well, it’s couch monarchists aristocrats.))) It’s all nobles.)))

                    Here in my country house there are four dogs, three booths ... my nobles arrange concerts for each other when the night is cold ... laughing
            2. long in stock.
              long in stock. 4 November 2017 23: 50
              +6
              are you trying to prove something to whom? a man who brazenly appropriated to himself a nonexistent title ?? this alone speaks of his mind ..
          2. sibiryouk
            sibiryouk 4 November 2017 14: 41
            +5
            ALL that you write is true, but there are many reverse examples of how poorly the workers lived (housing conditions, salary). Workers from the Lena goldfields in 1913 would not have rebelled from a good life.
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 4 November 2017 15: 12
              14
              Yes, there were examples of hard work and violations of the law. But they were fought with, including government commissions. As for the Lena events, then ... the basis of the strike committee was the Socialist Revolutionaries, anarchists and Bolsheviks. At the head of this gang was Batashev, a member of the "military organization" of the Russian Democratic Republican Democratic Labor Party, and the execution himself occurred when Batashev led a propaganda crowd to "beat off" the arrested troublemakers. http://harmfulgrumpy.livejournal.com/769287.html
      3. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. 4 November 2017 10: 51
        +6
        Yeah. The author refers to the "historian" Pyzhikov. "Historian" graduated from the regional ped ... and went into politics. In politics, to put it mildly, he is a little picky. First, the Komsomol, then served as a “birch barker” to Ivan Rybkin, then went as an assistant to Prime Minister Misha2% ... As in a nursery rhyme: “The thief-thief cooked porridge ... it gave it and it did, but it didn’t.” Like a devil from a snuffbox, ten years after the end of the regional ped, he has publications and he during a year! "defends" the candidate, then the doctoral. People who remember the "saints of the 90s" will understand.
        When you work in science, the question always arises: what is the scientific novelty of your works. A historian, if he doesn’t work in archives, an archaeologist, if he doesn’t work on excavations, where can the grounds for novelty come from? In this case, you already do not become a scientist, but, at best, an interpreter. It is doubly disgusting when politicians start to pretend to be scientists and believe that in this case their opportunistic propaganda (interpretations, if you like) will look more significant.
      4. Hantengri
        Hantengri 4 November 2017 11: 14
        12
        Quote: Olgovich
        By the way, about the "lived": The amount of living space per citizen in 1913, the Soviet citizen reached only in 1960
        Wow! Again voices in the head reported? Nate, the sufferer for the "brutally trained kulak children", enlighten! Just be careful, don’t choke on the bun!
        “From the information we have received, we learn that from 4 to 73 people were accommodated in one apartment. There were more than ten people in 30 apartments, more than twenty in 11 apartments. One to twenty people were placed in one room. 13 times in one room there were more than ten Of 117 rooms, less than one cubic fathom [2] per person was 83, 1 to 2 in twenty, 2 to 3 in ten, and more than 3 cubic soot in four rooms. -0,4-0,5 cubic meters of soot per person Square floor area per 0,7-0,3 square meters of soot [0,5], 3 times less than the first square soot., 81 times from 1 to 23 sq. Soot Eighteen people lived in rooms without windows.
        ...... Sanitary doctor of the Alexander Nevsky part, Dr. Prokopovich, gives some interesting descriptions of apartments occupied by workers from the Neva paper mill [13].

        The apartment is located on the second floor of an old stone two-story house, in which there are up to twenty apartments. It consists of three rooms and a kitchen. Stroke through the kitchen. Water is delivered from the Neva in barrels, stored in the kitchen in a tub. The tub is dirty. Simple latrine on the stairs. The apartment has six windows. Enough for the light. There are windows in the rooms, but not in the kitchen. Two Dutch ovens and a Russian one. The walls are painted with glue and bear signs of dampness. The fee for the apartment is 24 p. 50 to. Without firewood. 29 people live in it: 24 men and 5 women. In the first room there are 10 people, again in five beds, in the second and third for six people and three beds. There are seven people and four beds in the kitchen. For each living in the apartment there are about 0,8 cubic meters. and 0,6 square meters. soot. Fee for bed 3 p. with the service.
        ....... The apartment is on the fourth floor. It consists of two rooms, a kitchen and a corridor. Simple latrine on the stairs. The janitor from the Neva in barrels carries water. Water is stored in a tank that is poorly contained. The apartment has three windows overlooking the latrine and the garbage pit. Enough for the light. The rooms and the kitchen have air vents. One Dutch and one Russian stove. In the rooms, the walls are papered, and in the kitchen and in the corridor painted with glue; the walls in the corners and under the windows are cheesy. Musty and damp air. The fee for the apartment is 14 p. without firewood.

        Mostly family workers with a Neva paper spinning mill live in this apartment. Only 15 people (6 men, 6 women and 3 children). Each room accommodates two families (4 and 6 people). Four people fit in the kitchen, and one woman in the dark corridor. For each living in the apartment accounts for 0,5-1,0 cubic meters. and 0,4-0,8 square meters. soot. In the first room and in the kitchen, the fee for a bed is 3 rubles. 50 K., and in the second 4 p., In the corridor 3 p. Obviously, in the second room, the board is more expensive, because there are more children and more space.

        According to the sanitary doctor, in this apartment the payment for corners is more expensive, because here the rooms are more spacious and there are not so many residents. In addition, the apartment is located close to the factory. In general, says Dr. Prokopovich, a room closer to the factory is paid more. If the board is the same, then the room itself is cramped and dirtier.
        ...... The vast majority of single St. Petersburg workers sleep together in the same bed - this should seem wild and strange to someone who is used to seeing that every adult has a separate bed. But in St. Petersburg there is an even more amazing phenomenon than half a bed - this is the complete absence of beds and sleeping on working tools. The following is a description of such dwellings, delivered by Dr. Leshchinsky, the medical officer of the Spassky unit. These dwellings are in the house of Prince. Vyazemsky, who is described by him as follows.
        ..... In this apartment there live handicraftsmen basketbers who work here. Only 17 people: the owner with his wife and 15 men. Of these, nine work for themselves, and six for the owner.

        The first room accommodates thirteen people. There are no beds. Sleeping on workbenches. In the second husband and wife, and in the third two workers who sleep on the same bed. For everyone living in the apartment there is a little more than 1 1/2 cubic meters. soot. air. Self-employed people pay 2 p. 50 K. for the place where the workbench stands. The first room has a Russian stove, and it serves as a kitchen. "The owner works in it with two adult workers and four students and the remaining nine handicraftsmen."

        Pokrovskaya M.I. In the basements, attics and corner apartments of St. Petersburg. (Published in the journal Russian Wealth, 1897, No. 6.) http://saint-juste.narod.ru/rabochie_1.html
        http://library6.com/3596/item/304882 (PDF с ятями, как Вы любите).
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 4 November 2017 11: 57
          +4
          Quote: HanTengri
          Wow! Again voices in the head reported? Nate, the sufferer for the "brutally trained kulak children", enlighten! Just be careful, don’t choke on the bun!

          learn to by-humanly speak.
          Then we'll talk.
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 4 November 2017 12: 20
            +8
            Quote: Olgovich
            learn to speak humanly.

            And humanly, how is it? So, how do you - to throw poop, without reference to the origin thereof?
            Quote: Olgovich
            Then we'll talk.

            Drain counted! laughing
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 November 2017 15: 32
              0
              Quote: HanTengri
              And humanly, how is it?

              Quote: HanTengri
              And humanly, how is it?

              as? Incorrect, again not like this::
              Quote: HanTengri
              throw poop


              If you were not taught in childhood, then fire me.
              Quote: HanTengri
              Drain counted!

              Yes, yes, of course! lol fool
              Don't be nervous just HOLIDAY today! yes
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 4 November 2017 20: 58
                +5
                Quote: Olgovich
                Don't be nervous just HOLIDAY today!

                Ah, I understood the hint! lol Well, you, there, this ... do not abuse, it is harmful to use EVIL! laughing And be careful, take care of yourself there. If anything, scream! We won’t come anyway ... But you scream ... Nice! laughing
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 7 November 2017 09: 03
                  +2
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  And be careful, take care of yourself there. If anything, scream!

                  Huldezh and barking rose
                  Only the old parrot
                  Shouted loudly from the branches:
                  "The big giraffe - he knows better!"
                  A \ V Vysotsky. [B] [/ b] laughing
          2. long in stock.
            long in stock. 4 November 2017 23: 51
            +3
            it is said to people in a human way. and with you, with wolves, howl like a wolf ..
          3. Looking for
            Looking for 5 November 2017 19: 45
            +1
            What. The truth pierces the eyes.
          4. badens1111
            badens1111 6 November 2017 15: 06
            +4
            Quote: Olgovich
            learn to speak humanly.

            What is it like?
            A human conversation, it’s without lies, and you always lie and are still offended that you are being caught in a lie ..
          5. Ehanatone
            Ehanatone 16 February 2018 22: 23
            -1
            And you olgovich Ham
      5. alstr
        alstr 4 November 2017 11: 33
        +8
        Yeah. Only with this war with its destruction survived during this period. And the civil war, too, was not without destruction.
        And then you just need to compare the quality of this area. After all, almost everything that was built new was housing with normal amenities, and not in the yard. And this is even in the village, and not just in the city. It should be noted that the urban population has increased dramatically.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 4 November 2017 11: 44
          +5
          Quote: alstr
          Yeah. Only with this war with its destruction survived during this period. And the civil war, too, was not without destruction

          LESS housing was built in 1938 than in the nightmare of 1918.
          they built barracks, mostly.
          Ask a question.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 4 November 2017 13: 16
            +7
            Quote: Olgovich
            LESS housing was built in 1938 than in the nightmare of 1918.
            they built barracks, mostly.
            Ask a question.

            Well, uzbagoysya already!))))) Read the comments carefully! wink
            something expensive, I am today))))))))))
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 4 November 2017 13: 52
              +5
              moskowit Yesterday, 17: 44 ↑
              I remembered my Moscow courtyard on Kirov, and the hut in which they lived ....
              Comment was yesterday. I drew attention to the word barracks. Moscow ...
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 4 November 2017 22: 20
                +1
                Yes, there were barracks. Moscow relatives talked about this. Even in modern art films, these barracks are sometimes shown as preserved even after the war. Of course, the films are feature films, but based on reality, after all. And in Petersburg there were barracks too. During the Second World War they ended. Also, the premises are half a meter below ground level. And the windows are just above the ground. They also lived in semi-basement rooms, both in Moscow and St. Petersburg, where barred windows started a meter below the ground and were under the ceiling. Then, and even now, cafes and shops have become these premises.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 November 2017 15: 34
              +1
              Quote: Stroporez
              Well, uzbagoysya already!))))) Read the comments carefully!
              something expensive, I am today))))))))))

              And you, with the HOLIDAY!
              I am also kind, on his occasion.
              To refute so you did not qualify.
              The truth is she is, to refute it is IMPOSSIBLE. hi
              1. 27091965
                27091965 4 November 2017 17: 02
                +3
                Quote: Olgovich
                The truth is she is, to refute it is IMPOSSIBLE.


                True, it is not always convenient.


                One of the main budget replenishment items is highlighted. Only industry fees this article for some reason can not catch up.
                "Ministry of Finance for the years 1904-1913."
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 5 November 2017 07: 38
                  +2
                  Quote: 27091965i
                  One of the main budget replenishment items is highlighted. Only industry fees this article for some reason can not catch up.


                  Continue to grow income from drinking in Soviet times, by year.
                  It will be funny statistics! lol
                  1. 27091965
                    27091965 5 November 2017 10: 21
                    +5
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Continue to grow income from drinking in Soviet times, by year.
                    It will be funny statistics!


                    The USSR had many shortcomings, but it’s also not worth asserting that the Bolsheviks destroyed the ideal state system. To refer to 1913 is not much wrong; the most successful for Russia was 1911.
                    Now available, in electronic form, publications of that time, reports of the Ministry of Finance, the Council of Ministers. They do not have that beautiful picture that you describe in your comments.
                    1. Nagaibak
                      Nagaibak 5 November 2017 10: 57
                      +4
                      27091965i "They do not have that beautiful picture that you describe in your comments."
                      Do not deprive them of a blessed picture.))) This is a kind of religion, they very much believe in this picture.)))
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 November 2017 12: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        Do not deprive them of a gracious picture.))) This is a kind of religion, they very much believe in this picture.

                        Dear comrade, 30 years ago I had the same picture that stuck with you so far.
                        But then, by virtue of curiosity and comparisons, another one came together.
                        try more READ: critically, questioning and verifying, but honestly.
                        And YOU will see her.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 5 November 2017 12: 35
                      +1
                      Quote: 27091965i
                      The USSR had many shortcomings, but it’s also not worth asserting that the Bolsheviks destroyed the ideal state system

                      You brought the income from drinking in RI (SAMI), and you yourself pretended that in the USSR there were no such income
                      Quote: 27091965i
                      Now available, in electronic form, publications of that time, reports of the Ministry of Finance, the Council of Ministers. They do not have that beautiful picture that you describe in your comments.

                      Destroy my picture in comparison with the year of already built socialism "1937. The picture is NOT mine, but top-secret statistics.
                      And if you know HOW she considered, then the picture will become even more depressing ...
                      1. 27091965
                        27091965 5 November 2017 13: 30
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You brought the income from drinking in RI (SAMI), and you yourself pretended that in the USSR there were no such income


                        I’m not trying to make the USSR white and fluffy, the vodka monopoly has been and will be one of the main revenue items of any state, be it socialist or capitalist. The level of development of the state is determined by financial and industrial development. The social situation of workers and peasants did not determine the level of development when it was in those times, now.

                        Destroy my picture in comparison with the year of already built socialism "1937. The picture is NOT mine, but top-secret statistics.


                        To determine the development of the state, periods of 10 to 20 years are taken, etc., while taking into account not only food consumption, but also the development of industrial, agricultural, financial, military complexes, the number of educational institutions, foreign policy and foreign economic relations , population and armies.
                        Did you really think that only the level of development of the state is determined by the consumer basket and square meters?
                        To destroy the picture, compare the development indicators of the Republic of Ingushetia from 1890 to 1913 and the USSR from 1917 to 1940 for all of the above indicators. The results will show you a real picture of the development of these two control systems ..
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 6 November 2017 12: 45
                      +1
                      Quote: 27091965i
                      To determine the development of the state, periods of 10 to 20 years are taken, etc., while taking into account not only food consumption, but also the development of industrial, agricultural, financial, military complexes, the number of educational institutions, foreign policy and foreign economic relations , population and armies.
                      Did you really think that only the level of development of the state is determined by the consumer basket and square meters?
                      To destroy the picture, compare the development indicators of the Republic of Ingushetia from 1890 to 1913 and the USSR from 1917 to 1940 for all of the above indicators. The results will show you a real picture of the development of these two control systems ..

                      You are having an interesting discussion, they have taken and DISABLED me the opportunity to answer.
                      The degree of development of the state is determined by the degree of standard of living of its CITIZENS, for it exists for them, and not they for him.

                      And citizens ate and dressed in 1937 - WORSE than in 1913.

                      I compared the period from 1980 to 1917 and the same period from 1917 to 1940. The conclusion is a catastrophe in demography in the second period, in other indicators of the Republic of Ingushetia or higher or not worse.
                      But 12 million people in 1922,33 did not die of starvation in it.


                      1111
                      1. 27091965
                        27091965 6 November 2017 14: 13
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I compared the period from 1980 to 1917 and the same period from 1917 to 1940. The conclusion is a catastrophe in demography in the second period, in other indicators of the Republic of Ingushetia or higher or not worse.


                        Do you definitely have a full report?


                        Graph based on Russian and Soviet statistics

                        Fig. 3-3. Indices of industrial production in the Russian Empire for 27 years 1887-1913 (1887 = 100) and in the USSR for 27 years 1928-1954 (1928 = 100)

                        The development of the Soviet period must be supplemented by compensation for losses from two world and one civil wars.
                    4. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 6 November 2017 15: 49
                      +1
                      Comrade, it is IMPOSSIBLE to communicate with you, you DISABLED me the possibility of an answer!
                      You are again running away from the time frames 1890-13 and 1917-1940 that you proposed.
                      Because the Bolsheviks LOSED this competition, Everything has already been studied and compared: https://polit-ec.livejournal.com/?skip=10
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 6 November 2017 16: 10
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Because the Bolsheviks LOSED this competition, Everything has already been studied and compared: https://polit-ec.livejournal.com/?skip=10

                        Again a lie.
                        This referenced is a patented liar
                        Teacher of Political Economy
                        LOCATION: Moscow, Russian Federation
                        COMMUNICATION METHODS:
                        [email protected]
                        But the truth is simple and straightforward
                        http://www.great-country.ru/articles/sssr/sov_sta
                        t / 00003.html
                        We look at other indicators
                        https://aloban75.livejournal.com/tag/%D1%81%D1%80
                        %D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5%20%D0%
                        A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0%20%D0%B8%20%D0%A0%D0%98
                        And we see, Olgovich is lying again.
                        Study the catastrophe of sunny Moldova, which from a flourishing Moldavian SSR has turned into a poor servant of Romania, which in Europe is generally considered a reserve of poverty.
                      2. 27091965
                        27091965 6 November 2017 16: 38
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Comrade, it is IMPOSSIBLE to communicate with you, you DISABLED me the possibility of an answer!
                        You are again running away from the time frames 1890-13 and 1917-1940 that you proposed.


                        Well, at least not electricity. If you are interested in this topic, you should know that the year 1890-1891 is the beginning of the industrial rise of the Republic of Ingushetia.
                        If you want, find a book published in 2007. Feedback was given by Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Chairman of the Economics Section of the Department of Social Sciences of the Russian Academy of Sciences D.S. Lvov, Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Honorary Director of the Central Economics and Mathematics Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences N.P. Fedorenko. It does not differ in great love for the Soviet regime, which is written in the preface, it gives a complete comparison of the development of Russia and the USSR, each figure, table and graph is confirmed by links to a specific document. Publishing house "Economics". Thanks for the interesting discussion.
              2. Looking for
                Looking for 5 November 2017 20: 01
                +4
                I’ve always been interested in the question: where do such anti-Soviet advisers come from? I understand that they were born in the mid-90s, they absorbed anti-Soviet propaganda with their mother’s milk. secondary and, probably, higher education. children your wife also go. didn’t give birth to mugs. So where do you get such hatred from the ranks. who raised you ???
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 6 November 2017 07: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: Seeker
                  I’ve always been interested in the question: where do such anti-Soviet advisers come from? I understand that they were born in the mid-90s, they absorbed anti-Soviet propaganda with their mother’s milk. secondary and, probably, higher education. children your wife also go. didn’t give birth to mugs. So where do you get such hatred from the ranks. who raised you ???

                  NURSING THE STATE and PARENTS. not build. And my state is more than a thousand years old.
                  And the systems were changing, the last was only 70 years old. But he managed to make an endangered one of the fastest growing people in the world.
                  This is a fact, my friend!
          2. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 5 November 2017 00: 19
            +7
            Quote: Olgovich
            LESS housing was built in 1938 than in the nightmare of 1918.
            they built barracks, mostly.
            Ask a question.

            And you are a little brain scratching: why they built barracks. I lived in a workers' village, the inhabitants of which built a hydroelectric power station and locks, a lot of workers were brought in to provide them with housing, they built temporary barracks in which there was a long corridor, a large kitchen, a large toilet and separate rooms for each family. Simultaneously with the barracks, they began to build apartment buildings, after the construction of the hydroelectric power station was completed, those who remained working received apartments, the rest went to another construction site and the barracks were demolished.
          3. Ehanatone
            Ehanatone 16 February 2018 22: 25
            -1
            And you olgovisch liar
      6. Snakebyte
        Snakebyte 4 November 2017 15: 57
        +6
        Quote: Olgovich
        By the way, about the "lived": The amount of living space per citizen in 1913, the Soviet citizen reached only in 1960

        Is it true? More specifically, as was believed? And then you read the royal doctors in the blessed year of 1903, and there are such uncomfortable numbers.
        The sanitary doctor of the Alexander part, Dr. Prokopovich, gives some interesting descriptions of the apartments occupied by workers from the Neva paper mill.
        The apartment is located on the second floor of an old stone two-story house, in which there are up to twenty apartments. It consists of three rooms and a kitchen. Stroke through the kitchen. Water is delivered from the Neva in barrels, stored in the kitchen, in the tub. The tub is dirty. Simple latrine on the stairs. The apartment has six windows. Enough for the light. There are windows in the rooms, but not in the kitchen. Two Dutch ovens and a Russian one. The walls are painted with glue and bear signs of dampness. The fee for the apartment is 24 p. 50 to. Without firewood. 29 people live in it: 24 men and 5 women. In the first room there are 10 people sleeping in five beds, in the second and third six people and three beds. The kitchen has seven people and four beds ... Fee for bed 3 p. According to the sanitary doctor, there are several such apartments in this house and a typical one was taken.

        This is still "elite" housing for workers.
        The apartment is on the fourth floor. It consists of two rooms, a kitchen and a corridor. Simple latrine on the stairs. The janitor from the Neva, in barrels, carries water. Water is stored in a tank that is poorly contained. The apartment has three windows overlooking the latrine and the garbage pit. Enough for the light. There are air vents in the rooms and in the kitchen. One Dutch and one Russian stove. In the rooms, the walls are papered, and in the kitchen and the corridor painted with glue; the walls in the corners and under the windows are cheesy. Musty and damp air. The fee for the apartment is 14 p. without firewood.
        This apartment is mainly inhabited by family workers from the Neva paper mill. Only 15 people (6 men. 6 women. And 3 children.) Each room accommodates two families. (4 and 6 people) Four people are placed in the kitchen, and one woman is in the dark corridor.

        Where are the councils and their communal apartments, one room per family.
        But not everyone is so lucky.
        In the description of the various apartments, it is very often mentioned that a lone worker does not have a separate bed ... Two people sleep on the same bed. In the vast majority of cases, he has at his disposal not a whole bed, but half a bed ... Sleeping together on the same bed is both sloppy and unhealthy. Under the conditions in which the workers live, other inconveniences should be added to sloppiness and infection ... Half the bed is hired by everyone who meets with the owner in conditions. Thus a drunkard and a slut can fall into a sober and cleanliness, a decent and modest reckless and reckless one who is decent and modest. What will be the life of the best of them in such a close neighborhood, everyone can imagine. ... One bed for two serves as a source of various evils, quarrels and troubles, which destructively affect the spiritual health of workers.
        But in Petersburg there an even more amazing phenomenon than half a bed is the complete absence of a bed and spanning on working tools.


        Apparently, in the calculations of the boulder crunches, only the elite and their lackeys are considered for the townspeople in "The Russia They Prosral".
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 4 November 2017 23: 57
          +5
          and you didn’t notice from the comments of this character that he considers either peasants or workers for people? People are those who fled from the horror of communism over a hill, and those 100500 milens who were rotted in the gulag. All the rest is just black.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 5 November 2017 07: 55
          +1
          Quote: Snakebyte
          Is it true?


          True, yes. Here are the figures of ow statistics. Https: //polit-ec.livejournal.com/14172
          .html:
          And now consider: HOW many millions of peasants who moved to the city lived in the 1930s, if the Zhmlya was built as in 1918
          Quote: Snakebyte
          Apparently, in the calculations of the boulder crunches, only the elite and their lackeys are considered for the townspeople in "The Russia They Prosral".

          Apparently something else - dense ignorance and unwillingness to open their eyes closed.
      7. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 4 November 2017 23: 38
        +6
        Quote: Olgovich
        about the "lived": The amount of living space per citizen in 1913, the Soviet citizen reached only in 1960

        If we consider that in tsarist Russia ordinary people mostly lived in basements, dugouts, huts, huts covered with straws, factory huts, and shelters, then indeed in 1913 all the Russian people were provided with 100% housing.
        It was bad with housing in the USSR, the poor from the basements were evicted to bourgeois apartments, communal apartments were made of them. But despite the devastation after the civil war, the diversion of forces to build factories, power plants, and the devastation after the Great Patriotic War, civilian construction in the USSR still existed. So far there wasn’t enough strength to have 13,5 square meters per person. m., but to poke this "bast in line" can only be a person who really wants to belittle the successes of the Soviet regime.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 5 November 2017 08: 06
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Quote: Olgovich
          about the "lived": The amount of living space per citizen in 1913, the Soviet citizen reached only in 1960

          If we consider that in tsarist Russia ordinary people mostly lived in basements, dugouts, huts, huts covered with straws, factory huts, and shelters, then indeed in 1913 all the Russian people were provided with 100% housing.
          It was bad with housing in the USSR, the poor from the basements were evicted to bourgeois apartments, communal apartments were made of them. But despite the devastation after the civil war, the diversion of forces to build factories, power plants, and the devastation after the Great Patriotic War, civilian construction in the USSR still existed. So far there wasn’t enough strength to have 13,5 square meters per person. m., but to poke this "bast in line" can only be a person who really wants to belittle the successes of the Soviet regime.


          With numbers, boring NUMBERS, refute my "lie", and not crackling chatter.
          Show that under the socialism built in 1937, people ate, dressed, lived better than in 1913. That is, disprove top secret report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955
          explain at the same time, WHY is he top secret? lol Inconvenient digits, right?
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 5 November 2017 15: 41
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            With numbers, boring NUMBERS, refute my "lie", and not crackling chatter.
            Show that under the socialism built in 1937, people ate, dressed, lived better than in 1913. That is, refute the top-secret report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR in 1955.

            The numbers will remain numbers, because bare numbers do not prove anything. They also have a quality side. And the fact that in 1937 they began to live better, I do not know from numbers, but from their ancestors (born 1879, 1883) and parents (born 1909) who lived at that time.
            Unfortunately, I did not see the “top-secret” report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR in 1955, but it may not be so secret, but it was concocted by someone and thrown into the media for misinformation, or maybe you misunderstood it and as always distorted it.
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 5 November 2017 19: 33
              +3
              Who will let this individual read top-secret documents? he has no such admission and will not be. he just sings from someone else's voice .. sometimes it happens sometimes when you want to sing but it turns out ..
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 6 November 2017 09: 52
                +1
                Quote: long in stock.
                Who will let this individual read top-secret documents? he has no such admission and will not be. he just sings from someone else's voice .. sometimes it happens sometimes when you want to sing but it turns out ..

                Not who, but what: the self-disappearance of the Bolsheviks, who were afraid, like fire, of their own numbers lol , opened archives into which they thought no one would get into.
                An-netushki, much is already open. yes RGAE. F. 1562. Op. 33. D. 2313. L. 164-185
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 6 November 2017 10: 00
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  An-netushki, much is already open.

                  Do you want to answer for your affairs from 91 to 99?
                  All strive to defile the events of a century and a half century ago, but for the recent, do you want Mr. liar?
                  For example, these are the numbers that you adore.
                  General demographic losses of Russia since 1991 to 2010 amounted to about 32 million people. Let us prove it.

                  Population decline under Yeltsin (excess of mortality over fertility) = 5767922 people

                  The migration increase under Yeltsin is 4266033 people (only official migrants). Bringing the value of this increase here is necessary, so that it would be clear why the population of the Russian Federation has not decreased much.

                  The population loss after Yeltsin’s departure and the consequences of the economic genocide unleashed by him, especially from the consequences of default (excess of mortality over birth rate) amounted to 7372918 people (including 2010)

                  Migration growth under Putin-Medvedev 1623171 people (only official migrants)

                  Direct losses from the economic genocide of the 90s (as of 2010) counted from the level of zero population growth (as many are born as they die).

                  5767922 + 7372918 = 13 140 840 people

                  But in the RSFSR until 1991. there was a constant population growth, which means we must count it, because due to economic genocide, we lost it.

                  That is, for the previous 10 years before the accession of the drunk Boris, the population growth of the RSFSR amounted to:

                  148,3 (population of the RSFSR in 1991) - 138,8 (population of the RSFSR in 1981) = 9,5 mil. person (in 20 years it will be 9,5 * 2)

                  Thus, the total demographic loss since 1991. to 2010 made up

                  13,1 + 9,5 * 2 = 32,1 million people.

                  Source: www.gks.ru/wps/wcm/connect/rosstat/rosstatsite/ma
                  in / population / demography / #
                  And for this economic pogrom of Yeltsinists and liberals in general with crime, do not want to answer?
                  https://www.chitalnya.ru/work/1199502/
                2. long in stock.
                  long in stock. 6 November 2017 20: 33
                  +4
                  yeah yeah ... we remember very well the Katyn case which was done from archival documents ... and done already by the academician. only because of this it didn’t become less false .. but it ended in VKPB in 1952 ... and you are all as it should be for a liberal you don’t even know elementary terms .. if you were afraid, you would destroy it. and if you have it in the public domain, it means there’s nothing to be afraid of. Have you discovered the truth back in 1987 if I remember your words correctly? it means the icebreaker was read ... yes ... there really is every word right .. I just see what you are writing, and I feel taken out of context .. I don’t even need to climb into the document to understand your distortion. 38 less than 18, not saying how many industrial objects were put into operation at that moment - which are key — this means that the person is distorting the facts .... without even trying to understand what is behind these figures .... but you don’t This Bolsheviks needed a competent and thinking population, but you don’t ... otherwise everyone will immediately see your weak intellect ..
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 7 November 2017 12: 35
                    0
                    Quote: long in stock.
                    yeah yeah ... we remember very well the Katyn case which was done from archival documents ... and done already by the academician. only because of this it didn’t become less false .. but it ended in VKPB in 1952 ... and you are all as it should be for a liberal you don’t even know elementary terms .. if you were afraid, you would destroy it. and if you have it in the public domain, it means there’s nothing to be afraid of. Have you discovered the truth back in 1987 if I remember your words correctly? it means the icebreaker was read ... yes ... there really is every word right .. I just see what you are writing, and I feel taken out of context .. I don’t even need to climb into the document to understand your distortion. 38 less than 18, not saying how many industrial objects were put into operation at that moment - which are key — this means that the person is distorting the facts .... without even trying to understand what is behind these figures .... but you don’t This Bolsheviks needed a competent and thinking population, but you don’t ... otherwise everyone will immediately see your weak intellect ..

                    How much empty speech ... belay
                    NUMBERS disprove the above! You do not lol can .... lol
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 6 November 2017 09: 45
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              The numbers will remain numbers, because bare numbers do not prove anything. They also have a quality side.

              Figures show that meat in 1937 was eaten on 40% less than in 1913 20% less milk, 20% less eggs, fish. etc. Potatoes-more-apparently from the "increased" quality lol
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Unfortunately, I did not see the “top-secret” report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR in 1955, but it may not be so secret, but it was concocted by someone and thrown into the media for misinformation, or maybe you misunderstood it and as always distorted it.

              He WAS top secret, so as not to upset people, today he is published everywhere.
              HOW can you not understand the tables? belay
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 6 November 2017 18: 54
                +2
                Quote: Olgovich
                The numbers show that in 1937 they ate 40% less meat than in 1913, milk 20% less, eggs, fish 20% less. etc. Potatoes-more-apparently from the "increased" quality

                Do not whistle, the cards were canceled on January 1, 1935. And eating less meat is the fault of your like-minded people, enemies of socialism, who lived in the 30s, who campaigned to slaughter cattle so as not to surrender it upon joining the collective farm.
                And it is not clear why the CSB report should be kept secret when people who lived in the 50s remembered how they lived in 1937.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 7 November 2017 12: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Do not whistle, the cards were canceled on January 1, 1935. And eating less meat is the fault of your like-minded people, enemies of socialism, who lived in the 30s, who campaigned to slaughter cattle so as not to surrender it upon joining the collective farm.

                  See yourself culturally! FIFTH TIME I urge to refute the NUMBERS of statistics. You can not? You can not. Admit your defeat.
                  Figures are a powerful thing!
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 7 November 2017 22: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    See yourself culturally! FIFTH TIME I urge to refute the NUMBERS of statistics. You can not? You can not. Admit your defeat.

                    So explain in which year the cards were canceled? January 1, 1935, or how did you write that they were back in 1937?
      8. badens1111
        badens1111 5 November 2017 12: 59
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        The avtorsha put herself in a ridiculous position by publishing the iconography of grain harvest: to achieve the yield of 1913, after all the Tatanic "battles for bread" and the "outstanding" collective farm construction it was possible only by the mid-1950s (

        Stop lying.
        I will give one more table taken from an independent source.
        Table 4. Harvesting food crops [[2]].



        Collected in million tons
        Year
        1913
        1928
        1940
        1950
        1960
        1970
        Grain
        86
        73,3
        95,6
        81,2
        125,5
        186,8
        Potatoes
        31,9
        46,4
        76,1
        88,6
        84,4
        96,6
        http://www.contrtv.ru/common/2505
        In 1937, 4,4 centners of food crops (wheat and rye) were harvested per capita in the USSR, 1,9 centners in the USA, 1,8 centners in France, 1,5 centners in Germany, and 1,9 cent in Italy 4 centners. Of the 5-1 billion pounds of gross grain production in the pre-revolutionary time, about 300 million pounds were sold to the markets. In 1938, socialist grain farming produced 2,3 billion pounds of marketable grain. By 1937-1939, not only the city, but all the peasants were completely provided with food. Improving the lives of peasants compared to the time of the NEP was not so much in improving nutrition, but mainly in increasing the consumption of industrial goods, but especially in improving the social sphere. From 1927 to 1937, the number of beds in rural hospitals increased 3 times, and the number of village doctors - 2,5 times [139].
        In present-day Russia, less grain per capita has been produced and moreover it is being sold. During the years of Soviet power, Russia produced 110-120 million tons of grain each (now Russia receives 73-83 million tons each during harvest time). Why, producing more, did we also buy feed grain? The explanation is simple. In 1990, Russia had 58,8 million head of cattle, in 2002 - 27,1 million. Pigs were 40 million. In 2002 - 15,5 million. Sheep and goats in 1990 there were 61,3 million. By 2002, there were 15,2 million of them left. And if the number of livestock and poultry fell 2-4 times or more, then the consumption of grain decreased. This reduction also occurred due to a sharp deterioration in the nutrition of the population. Is it any wonder that the consumption of meat and milk has fallen significantly [170]? Whereas in Soviet times, on average, every citizen of the country consumed 3340 calories per day, in 2002 only 2500 (cited by V. MASLENNIKOV, 2003). According to the Ministry of Agriculture of Russia, 40 million people are malnourished in Russia [171].

        Learn, Mr. liar.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 6 November 2017 10: 00
          +1
          Do not be ashamed to copy-paste other people's sheets, also WITHOUT a source?
          Secret Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955, table 1, 2-REFUTION. lol
          Schedule of the author-communist, where the yield of 1913 was exceeded only in 1950 (except for the only 1937) -REFUN.
          2002 is generally a flood off topic. fool
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 6 November 2017 10: 10
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            2002 is generally a flood off topic.

            No Mr. liar, everything is just on the topic.
            And you simply have nothing to object to.
            Your reading of the report itself suffers not only from limpness with blindness and deafness, but also directly distorting the meaning of the report.
            There is no that thought that you are pushing here following Goebbels's precepts.
            As it was said in Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR and the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks No. 4004 of December 14, 1947, “... from December 16, 1947, the card system for the supply of food and industrial goods was canceled, high prices for commercial trade were canceled, and uniform reduced state retail prices were introduced for food and manufactured goods ... ". I wonder how this is consistent with your cries that everything was bad?
            During the post-war period, food prices and the most popular industrial goods fell by an average of more than 2 times. So, for eight post-war years, the life of the Soviet people improved markedly annually. In the entire known history of mankind in no country have similar precedents been observed.
            The standard of living of the population of the USSR in the mid-50s can be assessed by studying materials from studies of the budgets of families of workers, employees and collective farmers conducted by the Central Statistical Office (CSB) of the USSR from 1935 to 1958 (these materials, which were classified as “secret” in the USSR) published on istmat.info).
            Disprove mr liar
            http://www.great-country.ru/articles/sssr/sov/001
            23.html
            Quote: Olgovich
            Do not be ashamed to copy-paste other people's sheets, also WITHOUT a source?

            Are you lying too? This is something: http: //www.contrtv.ru/common/2505, and this is who-reference. MASLENNIKOV, 2003
            Study Mr. liar, you exactly correspond to the image of one of Goebbels’s diligent students, when using part of the truth, speculating on difficulties, immediately throw down the ears, hoping that tons of foul-smelling words will be stuck in someone’s memory.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 6 November 2017 10: 34
              +1
              Quote: badens1111
              Your reading of the report itself suffers not only from limpness with blindness and deafness, but also directly distorting the meaning of the report.
              There is no that thought

              Dear friend!
              You tired me of your slipping away from the NUMBER of the Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR. Not the “thoughts” of the report, but its FIGURES
              And the numbers show that 1937% less meat was eaten in 40than in 1913, milk - 20% less, eggs, fish, bread, clothes - 20% less. etc.
              And this is with the already "built" socialism! After battles for hdeb and collectivizations!
              And here is such an incident that I had to secret.

              Get rid of your "thoughts", refute the numbers. Not.. lol can you wink
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 6 November 2017 21: 53
                +2
                Quote: Olgovich
                Get rid of your "thoughts"

                You about yourself? That's right, you have no thoughts, you have a lie from PROZY.RU, nothing more.
                And the numbers show that in what there was no success, so in the hair of a goat and a camel, so compete with them and who will spit further and ... well, you understand about small peas.
                http://www.great-country.ru/articles/sssr/sov_sta
                t / 00003.html
                The same data in real terms, in kg. per person per year:

                The pre-revolutionary period of 1925 1936 * 1952 * 1976 1986
                Мясо 14,6 35,7 14,4 14,4 46,9 55,9
                Молоко 130,3 109,7 137 170,4 415 355,6
                Яйца 29 62 38,4 57,6 253 290
                Fish 3,5 7,5 - - 16,1 15,8
                Сахар 2,2 9,9 3,6 4,8 45,8 41,7
                Картофель 77,1 90,6 239 224 138 125
                Овощи 22,8 37,5 72 66 52,5 71,6
                Хлеб 253,1 174,1 270 246 182,9 152,3

                I took the data for 1936 and 52 from here: Table of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR “Consumption of food in the families of peasants in 1905-1913, 1923/24, 1928/29, 1936, 1940, 1950, 1952. and 1953. " They are in the USSR, not the RSFSR.
                Shut up Mr. liar.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 7 November 2017 13: 05
                  0
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Are you about yourself?

                  RUSSIAN language - learn and there will not be similar questions.
                  Quote: badens1111
                  And the numbers show that in what there was no success, so in the hair of a goat and a camel, so compete with them and who will spit further and ... well, you understand about small peas.
                  http://www.great-country.ru/articles/sssr/sov_sta
                  t / 00003.html

                  Again, I advise you to learn RUSSIAN and read the title of Table. 1 Reports 1955 (not 1954 bullshit) g: "LEVEL OF CONSUMPTION". I do not have to educate you: "Itself, myself!" (WITH) lol
                  Quote: badens1111
                  I took the data for 1936 and 52 from here: Table of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR “Food Consumption in Families” farmers in 1905-1913, 1923/24, 1928/29, 1936, 1940, 1950, 1952. and 1953. " They are in the USSR

                  Falling! fool lol
                  You are given SOVIET data for the whole country. Are you AGAIN, not Copenhagen? lol fool
          2. long in stock.
            long in stock. 6 November 2017 20: 37
            +3
            and when you show me who lived in Samara in 70-80 show where we had milk on coupons? again on Facebook refer ?? where are the facts and documents ??
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 7 November 2017 12: 47
              0
              Quote: long in stock.
              and when you show me who lived in Samara in 70-80 show where we had milk on coupons? again on Facebook refer ?? where are the facts and documents ??

              In 1981, he stood with his girlfriend (student of KSU) in line for meat on coupons, st. Of the Soviet Army, Kuibyshev yes
    3. Sergey Nemov
      Sergey Nemov 28 December 2020 20: 29
      +7
      Normal article good
  2. Amurets
    Amurets 4 November 2017 05: 51
    +6
    In 1912, such a popular and important industry as the textile industry was half owned by the Germans. The worst was in metallurgy and machine building, industries that are traditionally considered the basis for industrialization - the industrial sectors belonged to the Germans by 71,8% (notably - and this is on the eve of the war with Germany ?!), by 12,6% - by the French, by 7,4, 8,2% to Belgian capital. The Russian bourgeoisie had only XNUMX% of the industry

    Now whose? Yes, the same foreign. To be honest, in 1911, when ** the Great Shipbuilding Program ** was adopted ** and Russia tried to free itself from foreign dominance. The State Duma of the 3rd convocation proclaimed the slogan: ** Ships are built at Russian factories, from Russian materials, by the hands of Russian workers. ** And this is not only shipbuilding: this is the development of the whole industry. But alas, the WWI struck, two revolutions and a civil war. As a result, the country was almost collapsed. The factories stood and yes here: the Bolsheviks had to rebuild and build a new country. Not only industry, but also agriculture based on new principles and new technologies. With what efforts and what sacrifices it cost us, we know.
    1. A.V.S.
      A.V.S. 4 November 2017 15: 27
      +3
      And with bloody tsarism, there were more than 10 automobile factories (Dux, RussoBalt), aircraft manufacturing, battleships were built at Russian shipyards (comrade Dzhugashvili could not even build one), steam locomotives were built so much that they traveled 1 years in the USSR. The Trans-Siberian Railway managed to surpass only in the 40s, ending BAM.
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 6 November 2017 10: 50
        +3
        Quote: A.W.S.
        And with bloody tsarism, there were more than 10 car factories

        Just TEN and direct FACTORIES ?? Well, and what was the productivity of those "factories", how many machines were given out per month?
        Quote: A.W.S.
        Aircraft building

        Well, tell me, my dear, how many, what kind of aircraft were built, and how did this compare, for example, in the number of similar devices in service with Italy, which was not even very strong militarily.
        Quote: A.W.S.
        battleships were built at Russian shipyards

        And what does this prove? If the war hadn’t happened and those battleships would have been in the arsenal of the Fleet, But the trouble is for you, with the development of weapons based on the results of World War II, it turned out that those same battleships have outlived their lives.
        Quote: A.W.S.
        so many steam locomotives were built that in the USSR they traveled for 40 years.

        Right?
        The average number of steam locomotives per 100 km of roads in other countries that equally operated steam locomotives was 1914. in England 64, in Belgium - 54, in Germany - 47, in Italy - 35 and in France - 33. If we compare these figures with the figures for Russia, where the number of steam locomotives did not exceed 30 per 100 km and began to decline before the imperialist war, then the poverty of Russian railways in terms of steam saturation will become apparent. "
        page dedicated to Russian and Soviet factories - manufacturers of locomotives. scado.narod.ru/rail2/wp_our…
        It can be seen that things are not so simple with factories. Steam locomotives were not their only products, in most cases, they were made, rather, as a by-product, and only a few factories specialized specifically in the production of steam locomotives and wagons. Nevertheless, it can be concluded that the industry coped with the task of producing steam locomotives and wagons more than successfully. So in vain I called these plants “cooperatives” - the plants were quite on the level, but under the conditions of the capitalist method of managing, they could not even work at full capacity. Confirmation - from the same "anti-Soviet" source:
        bash-m-ak.livejournal.com/1...
        From the report of the IPU at the All-Russian Congress of District Economic Committees.

        Date - September 9, 1917

        The release of steam locomotives in Tsarist Russia during WWI REDUCED from year to year:
        1915 - 570
        1916 - 407
        1917 - 256
        (for comparability, the speaker took data for the first 8 months of each year)

        At the same time, 1916 steam locomotives were purchased in the United States in 400 (equal to the volume of domestic production), and then another 375 were ordered.

        And so the debts of tsarist Russia grew ... because of their own mismanagement, the economic lack of talent of Russian industrialists and "planners."

        Monthly due to a malfunction in 1917, 200 to 400 steam locomotives failed! That is, 8 times more than they were produced. Locomotives had nothing to repair.
        And as a reminder to the sufferer of steam locomotives, Diesel locomotives and electric locomotives, didn’t they go into the series under Nikolka Besdarny? And there weren’t two, or rather three wars, the locomotive fleet didn’t decrease for technical and other reasons?
        And lastly, since everything was so good in RI, where the chemical and electromechanical industry, glass, auto and tractor building. Aviastroenie, and not artels? They were not there, who prevented all this from happening, if not the inertness of your favorite and his relatives, Nikolai 2 ? For which he paid ...
        Please tell me how, by 1940, freight traffic in the "backward USSR" increased by almost 7 times.
        They could not do either steam locomotives there, nor build railways, but freight traffic grew. How can this be?
        You can take a look here. Http://wiki.istmat.info/%D0%BC%D0%B8...80%D
        0% BE% D0% B3
  3. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 4 November 2017 06: 39
    +8
    From the article we can conclude that Russia returned 100 years ago. Again the raw and grain appendage of Europe.
    And large enterprises, even on the rights of shareholders, are owned by foreigners. Is it a shame? Yes. And what was the people to do in 1991? You can’t buy anything from foodstuffs and basic necessities for coupons and stores in general. Where did the creative potential of the Communist Party go? It is clear that she has exhausted herself and has degraded. And the people did not want to live like that. So we have what we have. They were a raw materials appendage and an appendage remained.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 4 November 2017 06: 57
      10
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      And large enterprises, even on the rights of shareholders, are owned by foreigners

      What kind of assumptions? What is “own by the rights of the shareholders” (the phase itself is utterly illiterate, I suggest)?
      The correct answer (if you know it, of course) should be in the form:
      - office (enterprise) such and such
      - the share of shares of a foreign shareholder (such and such) is such and such.
      From now on, there will be something to talk about. So far, nothing.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 4 November 2017 10: 15
        11
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        What kind of assumptions? What is “own by the rights of the shareholders” (the phase itself is utterly illiterate, I suggest)?

        Show us how to repeat Do not forget about Nobel and what belonged to him and the fact that in RI there was only one bank with Russian money. wink
    2. San Sanych
      San Sanych 4 November 2017 07: 03
      11
      By 1991, one name remained from the party, beginning with the Twentieth Congress, its degeneration began.
      1. Looking for
        Looking for 5 November 2017 20: 07
        +2
        Unfortunately, not degeneration (belonging to the Communist Party was a MANDATORY !!! condition for a successful career. And the number of "members" was steadily growing) and REBUILDING !!!!!!
    3. zoolu350
      zoolu350 4 November 2017 11: 13
      +6
      Of course, Russia returned 100 years ago. The "creative" potential of the leaders of the CPSU "neovlasovtsev" type labeled with the company, went to create a situation with coupons and other problems, so that the people of the USSR thought that he did not want to live like that. Now the situation is rapidly approaching the one that was in 1917. the only thing missing is a war, but the Fed owners will not rust. And then we’ll either go to a new round of Glory and Power, or Russia’s end, because the owners of the Fed do not repeat mistakes.
    4. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 4 November 2017 20: 10
      +3
      Serafimamursky "From the article we can conclude that Russia returned 100 years ago. Again the raw and grain appendage of Europe."
      "
      If nothing changes, it will be so.
    5. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 4 November 2017 23: 44
      +7
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      You can’t buy anything from foodstuffs and basic necessities for coupons and stores in general.

      But are you not aware of the matter that the "conscientious" liberalists made a deficit on purpose, that a lot of meat, vegetables and other products were thrown into landfills at that time.
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 4 November 2017 07: 30
    +8
    But the collage is true, correctly reflects the essence of the October Revolution ...
  5. Gardamir
    Gardamir 4 November 2017 09: 24
    12
    Talking about tsarism, the author simultaneously points to modern Russia. And the factories are supplied with foreign money, and do not even belong to us. They will want and take out all the cars of production. As for not being eaten and taken out, the situation is also modern.
    Many did not like the criticism of the current government and went on to insult the author. Therefore, in the name of those awards that I received here at VO I ask you to delete notes such as "what nonsense", "author" and the like. It’s one thing when we turn to individuals in the heat of controversy, but the author expressed his opinion, do not like to criticize consistently, but do not be rude.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 4 November 2017 09: 41
      10
      Quote: Gardamir
      ... in the name of those awards that I received here in VO, please delete notes like ...

      Are you talking about your cardboard epaulettes, or what? Duc to them the price on a market day is a dime ... on a regular day - less.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 4 November 2017 10: 00
        +4
        cardboard shoulder straps with
        , can you ban, so as not to read heresy? My nick has a 4.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 4 November 2017 10: 32
          +9
          Quote: Gardamir
          may ban you

          Dust swallow do not get tired?
          Quote: Gardamir
          so as not to read heresy?

          Do not write nonsense - I will have less reason to oppose you, ahem.
          Quote: Gardamir
          My nick has a number 4

          Cheap off, IMHO. I would have banned you long ago ... laughing
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 4 November 2017 10: 37
            +6
            oppose.
            it's an argument you are a troll
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 4 November 2017 12: 52
              10
              Quote: Gardamir
              oppose.
              it's an argument you are a troll

              You are just as successful as a troll. You have the same thing from the commentary in the comments, and your comments are already under 5000.
              Not tired yet? Or are you expressing yourself like that? wink
          2. zoolu350
            zoolu350 4 November 2017 11: 24
            +9
            Yes, you oppose to all those who really show miserable moments in the life of Russia under the rule of the oligarchy of the Russian Federation and its predecessors, the “elite of the Republic of Ingushetia 1917.”, immediately begin to whitewash them. But as practice shows, slaves usually fall under the "distribution" first because the owners have time to dump. So think it over.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 4 November 2017 12: 55
              +9
              Quote: zoolu350
              Yes, you oppose to all those who really show miserable moments in the life of Russia ...

              “Show” and “slander” are two different things.
              In order to “show” something, you have a base (evidence-based) ... and, perhaps, a brain ... is missing, yeah.
              Therefore, you stupidly troll. Nuache, also a lesson laughing
              Quote: zoolu350
              ... start whitewashing them ...

              A quote "from me" with "whitening" - in the studio. Or throw trepamst already negative
              Quote: zoolu350
              So think

              This is for you, first of all. Although, the campaign, you are ... incapable of this.
              Therefore - keep laughing (C).
              1. zoolu350
                zoolu350 5 November 2017 04: 38
                +1
                Quote: Golovan Jack

                A quote "from me" with "whitening" - in the studio. Or throw trepamst already negative

                Captain Pushkin November 1, 2017 15:49 ↑
                Quote: Whaler
                Yeah)) sit such Rassay oligarchs, all in incomprehensible recourse and are waiting for advice ... especially your advice yes

                Duc, just according to the understandings of the Rassay oligarchs of Donetsk, was stopped in the summer of 2014, they did not allow Mariupol to be taken and the Kiev army, which was broken up at that time, was driven to the borders of Donetsk and Lugansk regions.
                Is it all right? But they did without advice, managed their minds ...

                Reply
                Quote Complaint
                Captain Pushkin

                2
                Golovan Jack November 2, 2017 07:28 ↑
                Quote: Captain Pushkin
                The Donetsk people were stopped in the summer of 2014, they were not allowed to take Mariupol and drive the Kiev army, which was broken up at that time, to the borders of Donetsk and Lugansk regions

                They could drive them away, maybe they would drive them away ... but with what would they then hold on to? LDNR is kept within its current borders, and thanks for that.
                Zadolbali sofa warriors
                Eat while hot.
  6. steelmaker
    steelmaker 4 November 2017 09: 58
    +3
    Judging by the responses, who is friends with the head - more. Why, then, do elections win, who are not friends with the head at all?
    1. zoolu350
      zoolu350 4 November 2017 11: 25
      +5
      "Democracy" and not such "miracles" do.
  7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 November 2017 10: 24
    +5
    The historian Sergei Nefedov in his work “On the Causes of the Russian Revolution” writes that in 1907 the income from the sale of bread amounted to 431 million rubles. 180 million rubles, 140 million rubles were spent on luxury goods. Russian nobles left at foreign resorts. Well, and the modernization of industry (the same supposedly industrialization) received only 58 million rubles.

    (yawning) we go here http://www.protown.ru/information/hide/6612.html we look
    In 1900, with the expenditure side of the budget (including extraordinary), 1889 million rubles. investments in state property and enterprises amounted to 572 million, and investments in private business - 104 million rubles. In 1913, these figures amounted to 3383, 1108 and 98 million rubles, respectively. Hi Nefedova
  8. kalibr
    kalibr 4 November 2017 10: 43
    +4
    Quote: Stroporez
    It’s a pity all the same that the “minus” was canceled, because for such nonsense you would have had “skulls” by noon, you are our accountant

    This is not an indication that he is wrong. And who are the judges?
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 4 November 2017 11: 14
      +7
      And who are the judges?
      I registered here in 2013. And then people had different, sometimes opposing opinions. But everyone came together when provocateurs appeared on the site. Now cons are prohibited on the Internet. The result is visible. Explicit trolls, feel at ease.
      So public opinion is good judges.
  9. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 4 November 2017 11: 35
    17
    The article is a fat minus, due to the fact that it is a collection of fraud and anti-Russian myths, rare in its toxicity.
    Thus, as a result of the reforms, the landowners turned into capitalist "enterprises" for the sale of grain abroad. There were about 30 thousand large "bread oligarchs", and 70 million acres of land were concentrated in their hands, with a stable increase in grain prices for the ruling class, the situation became very favorable. These "enterprises" supplied 47% of grain exports. Here he is - that same 1% (700 families) of elitists closely connected with the court, it is their life and life that we see on large screens in films about "Russia We Lost",

    Rare nonsense. In the same Great Britain more than half of the lands belonged to the highest aristocracy, but the country did not bend something from hunger and no one complained about the current state of affairs.
    The second thing that is causing criticism in this quote is the figure of 70 million acres of land. Where did this figure come from if landownership never existed in Siberia and Central Asia, and in the provinces of central Russia and in the territory of present-day Ukraine land was massively transferred to the hands of peasants? http://chispa1707.livejournal.com/2031934.html
    https://serg-slavorum.livejournal.com/2425681.htm
    l
    The hungry riots were suppressed, the peasants were not released from the villages, the peasant was cruel to starvation, then from the war, so looking for conspiracies "from outside" in a spontaneous "peasant" revolution means not to notice the obvious.

    And here the author, obviously describes the USSR of the 1930s model, during collectivization, because the last mass famine in the Republic of Ingushetia took place in 1892, and coincided with the cholera epidemic. The riots, which are mentioned in the article, took place due to the inflating of the situation with malnutrition in certain provinces. The "comrade socialists" of all stripes were muddying the water. However, the "vicious exploiting" tsarist government, which exported bread and starved the people, for some reason organized the prompt delivery of food to the affected regions. https://afanarizm.livejournal.com/174568.html

    In 1912, such a popular and important industry as the textile industry belonged to the Germans by half. The matter was worse in metallurgy and machine building, industries traditionally considered to be the basis for industrialization - industrial sectors belonged to the Germans 71,8% (noteworthy - and this is on the eve of the war with Germany ?!), on 12,6% - to the French capital, on 7,4% - to Belgian capital. The Russian bourgeoisie had only 8,2% of the industry ("The Revolution that Saved Russia," Rustem Vakhitov). This was the case with industrialization - yes, it was, but not in the Russian Empire.

    Explicit forgery and default. Industrial enterprises were initially financed by foreigners, and as they developed, they were actively bought back by Russian shareholders. http://nikital2014.livejournal.com/7490.html
    In the above work, the author makes references to Soviet researchers of the 50s.
    In 1861, a huge country accounted for only 4,4% of world industrial production. For comparison - the United States gave 35,8%

    Again forgery. Real figure: 7.2% according to the League of Nations https://nikital2014.livejournal.com/8667.html
    180 million rubles, 140 million rubles were spent on luxury goods. Russian nobles left at foreign resorts.

    And another forgery. The author intentionally does not talk about private investment in industry and the number of bank deposits within Russia. In 1914, the State Savings Bank had deposits of 2.236.000.000 rubles.
    The amount of deposits and equity in small credit institutions (on a cooperative basis) in 1894 amounted to about 70.000.000 rubles; in 1913 - about 620.000.000 rubles (an increase of 800%), and by January 1, 1917 - 1.200.000.000 rubles.
    According to the book of B. Brazol, “The Reign of Emperor Nicholas II in Figures and Facts,” “Small Credit Institutions” are credit cooperatives that financed private enterprises, both in agriculture and industry.
    As for export, Russia exported no more than 6–8% of its products, its share in world imports was only 3,5%. The data are given in the reference book “Russia 1913: Statistical and Documentary Reference Book. St. Petersburg, 1995. P. 210. "
    In the end, I want to say that the article was written either by a person who is illiterate in the field of Russian history, or by a conscious provocateur using inaccurate data to denigrate Russia and Russian history. And judging by the tone of the article, this denigration is necessary for the author to justify both the February coup and the October seizure of power by the Bolsheviks.
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 6 November 2017 11: 03
      +2
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      And judging by the tone of the article, this denigration is necessary for the author to justify both the February coup and the October seizure of power by the Bolsheviks.

      Well, you would have to tell fairy tales about the Bolsheviks without focusing on the achievements of those same ones that you are cursing because they could not stand the bloodsuckers from the bourgeoisie.
      By the beginning of 1917, the state debt of the Russian Empire was 33 billion rubles, and by the end - 60 billion. Each year, more than 3 billion rubles were required to be paid. by interest.
      These figures are taken from the report of V.P. Milyutin. They are also present in the report of the Director of the Department of the State Treasury Dementyev published 10 years later. It presents the dynamics of Russian public debt “with the addition of short-term liabilities to government debt, the replacement of which with long-term loans is only a matter of time.”
      The debt amounted to (as of January 1):
      - 1914 — 8,8 billion rubles.,
      - 1915 — 10,5 billion,
      - 1916 - 18,9.
      - 1917 - 33,6,
      - and by July 1, 1917 it had already reached 43,9 billion rubles.
      It was expected that by the beginning of 1918 it would rise to 60 billion rubles.
      This is consistent with your cry, they say the article is a lie?
      http://felix-edmund.livejournal.com/639646.html
  10. kalibr
    kalibr 4 November 2017 11: 51
    +3
    Quote: Gardamir
    So public opinion is good judges.

    Oh don't tell me. In the magistracy in the specialty of PR and advertising, there is even the subject "Public Opinion Management Technologies". There are many of them, and they are all effective!
    1. Curious
      Curious 4 November 2017 13: 07
      +8
      "'Public opinion management technologies.' There are many, and they are all effective! '
      That's what you can’t argue with this thesis. Examples of the victims of these technologies are right in this discussion. For some, the phrase “The Great October Socialist Revolution” directly causes physiological reflexes of the abundant discharge of tears from the eyes and something from the nose of “lost Russia”, where peasants in silk pants sat on the kissel banks of milk rivers, drinking gulls from piece samovars with the inscription “ Samovar that the Solovetsky sea. They drink from it for good health. ”
      Moreover, for a completely incomprehensible reason, all the polite sufferers see themselves certainly relaxing near these samovars, forgetting that the number of seats near them was very limited, unlike the options with a fluttering ass on the stable or with a kyle in Gorny Zerentuy.
      Then the damned Bolsheviks came and ruined everything, continuous suffering and degradation began.
      Now the Bolsheviks are gone. Feel better? Does everyone flourish? Olgovich, do not want to compare current economic indicators with the indicators of the USSR of the year 1977.
      1. sibiryouk
        sibiryouk 4 November 2017 16: 40
        +2
        There will be a big minus on ALL indicators, except for beer consumption and cellular services, the Internet.
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 4 November 2017 22: 36
        +1
        About samovars. Somewhere in the AUDITOR, in the ORDINARY HISTORY, there are expressions that the samovar was not set every day. But this is not about peasants or workers. Also in the PETERSBURG SLUMS, there is a father’s advice to his son --- do not drink tea, it is expensive, and brew grass. Also, why did they drink tea in taverns? He was not at home. Tea, like the samovar, was not accessible to everyone.
  11. kalibr
    kalibr 4 November 2017 11: 56
    +3
    Quote: alstr
    - It was a dwelling with normal amenities, not in the yard. And this is even in the village, and not just in the city.

    Here it is not necessary, and especially about the village. In many latrines before 41 there was no year! At the wattle easier ...
    1. Cat Marquis
      Cat Marquis 4 November 2017 12: 27
      +2
      Even now. My colleague left the United States for his homeland in Russia, he bought land in the village, as he wanted — he built a house with a good nature, river and a close asphalt road. He invited me to visit, I somehow ended up in those parts, I decided to call in. I remember the village and where it is, but the address itself is forgotten, thinking, it doesn’t matter, in the village everyone knows each other, they will tell you. Well, I came to the village, such as the "center", they have a board, shops, etc. I stopped at a bunch of people at the board and began to ask about such and such. What is surprising no one knows this. I began to raise questions-what did such and such come to you a couple of years ago, built a beautiful house there and there and so on. And then one says: "Ah! Yes, this is the one .... that’s in the house ! "
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 4 November 2017 13: 00
        +5
        "Ah! Yes, this is the one .... that is getting gray in the house!
        You are a hundred times right! European lovers reproach the Russians for their underdevelopment. And we are not ** m where we live.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 4 November 2017 14: 35
          +9
          Quote: Cat Marquis
          And then one says: "Ah! Yes, that’s the one .... that’s turning gray in the hut!"

          I translate - a toilet in his house. Not in the garden.
          Quote: Gardamir
          And we are not ** m where we live

          Go to the garden, or what?
          GardamirYou are cute ... You made me a day fellow
    2. badens1111
      badens1111 6 November 2017 11: 10
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      Here it is not necessary, and especially about the village. In many latrines until 41 years old was not! The wattle easier.

      There’s no need to lie, an intelligent upper-hand man. Wherever there were definitely no latrines and relieved anywhere, it was in the Baltic states, where one of the then presidents even announced a competition for the best toilet of the MeJo type. Even the representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, M. Zakharova, said that .
      And here it is very interesting, unlike you, the facts of primitivism and directly Nazism in the Baltic states are presented not only now, but also under the dictators of that time, all of these estimates, dimes and others.
      http://newsreaders.ru/showthread.php?t=923
  12. Cat Marquis
    Cat Marquis 4 November 2017 12: 11
    +1
    "Russia is over ... At the end
    We blundered her, chatted,
    Proluzgali, drank through, spit,
    Zayzgali on dirty squares,
    Sold out on the streets: no need to
    To earth, republics, yes freedoms,
    Civil rights? And the people of the motherland
    He dragged himself out at the pus, like a pa.d.a.l. ..... "
    Maximilian Voloshin.
  13. Nordman88
    Nordman88 4 November 2017 12: 21
    +3
    I usually ask myself the question if the monarchy could withstand the war with the Germans in 1941-1945. and I answer to myself no. The tsarist regime turned Russia into a colossus with feet of clay and a centuries-old attitude towards the peasants, the reluctance to change their position for the better turned the country into a powder keg, which indicates the complete incompetence of the autocracy. History does not forgive such errors.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 November 2017 12: 29
      +9
      Quote: Nordman88
      I usually ask myself the question if the monarchy could withstand the war with the Germans in 1941-1945. and I answer to myself no.

      And you ask yourself another question - could the Russian Empire be in the position of the USSR in 1941? :)))) The answer is no. If the Russian Empire - Hitler would be crushed in the bud
      1. Nordman88
        Nordman88 4 November 2017 13: 01
        0
        Perhaps) but certainly not in the format of the empire of the times of Nicholas 2, when everyone had already begun to play their games and betray each other. Actually, if the last tsar had sufficient will, if there was counterintelligence and political investigation, he could have taken measures to prevent revolutionary elements, but this was not done and they would hardly have noticed Hitler, but if Nicholas 1 had been in his place, then he would have been completely another conversation)
      2. Pushkar
        Pushkar 4 November 2017 13: 50
        +4
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        If the Russian Empire - Hitler would be crushed in the bud
        About cartridge and shell hunger at the beginning of 1915 - have you forgotten? Have you forgotten about the lack of aviation and automobile industry? "Russo-Balt" was an analogue of Rolls-Royce, and the famous "Ilya Muromets" was a manual assembly aircraft and existed at the beginning of 1 MV in 16 copies. This is against thousands of bombers of a similar class among the Entente and the Central Axis. Fighters and other bombers only gathered in Russia.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 November 2017 14: 03
          +9
          Quote: Pushkar
          About cartridge and shell hunger at the beginning of 1915 - have you forgotten? Have you forgotten about the lack of aviation and automobile industry?

          (shrug) And how would all this help Hitler when he would be replaced by a thread in 1936? Do you understand that then several divisions were more than enough for this?
          The country basically overcame shell hunger in 1916, without the USSR super efforts. There really was no automobile industry in Russia, but by the number of armored vehicles and the tactics of their use, we were almost the first in the world.
          Quote: Pushkar
          "Ilya Muromets" was a manual assembly aircraft and existed at the beginning of 1 MV in 16 copies. This is against thousands of bombers of a similar class among the Entente and the Central Axis.

          Trillions :))))) At the beginning of the war, Germany had less than 250 aircraft, mostly of extremely obsolete types, and there were no four-engine ones at all. The British in their Royal Flight Corps assembled 170 aircraft by 1915.
          1. Mamka pula
            Mamka pula 4 November 2017 14: 14
            15
            The country basically overcame shell hunger in 1916, without the USSR super efforts. There really was no automobile industry in Russia, but by the number of armored vehicles and the tactics of their use, we were almost the first in the world.

            Clever Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            I applaud mentally
            Good discussion
            Well done guys
          2. Pushkar
            Pushkar 4 November 2017 15: 04
            +1
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

            The country basically overcame shell hunger in 1916, without the USSR super efforts.
            Yes, right. But how. Million pieces were produced in the first world shells: Great Britain - 218,0, France - 290,0, Germany - 306,0, Russia - 67,0. Bought around the world for billions of gold rubles. The same story with other types of weapons. Source: http://voprosik.net/snaryadnyj-golod-v-rossii-vp
            ervuyu-mirovuyu /
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 4 November 2017 15: 36
              13
              A small but significant amendment: the production of shells in the Republic of Ingushetia is taken into account for 1914-1916, and the industry of England, Germany and France worked with accelerating production rates throughout 1917 and until November 1918. https://pereklichka.livejournal.com/548603.html
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 November 2017 15: 53
              +8
              Quote: Pushkar
              Yes, right. But how.

              Tenfold increase in shell production.
              Quote: Pushkar
              Bought around the world for billions of gold rubles.

              Yes, about 24 percent of the total used shells in 1916
              1. Pushkar
                Pushkar 4 November 2017 16: 53
                +1
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

                Tenfold increase in shell production.
                Did you watch the numbers? Produced 3-4 times less than France or the UK.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 November 2017 17: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Pushkar
                  Did you watch the numbers? Produced 3-4 times less than France or the UK.

                  So what? The USSR produced shells half the size of the United States in World War II. What far-reaching conclusions will you order from this?
          3. sibiryouk
            sibiryouk 4 November 2017 16: 37
            +5
            The first to use someone else’s technology! The main thing is that education was not accessible to the people! There were no vocational schools and technical schools for training skilled workers! About higher education for the common people - SILENT. Nicholas II generally preferred an illiterate people, but devoted to autocracy (he himself spoke about this many times).
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 November 2017 17: 55
              +1
              Quote: sibiryouk
              The first to use someone else’s technology!

              Which one is a stranger? :)))
              Quote: sibiryouk
              The main thing is that education was not accessible to the people!

              Mmm, how did it happen that about 40% of students in higher educational institutions of the Russian Empire are children of peasants, workers and craftsmen? :))) http://www.terrahumana.ru/arhiv/11_02/11_02_41.pd
              f
              Understand correctly, I do not deny the great achievements of the USSR in terms of education, and indeed of everything. I just think that in RI everything was far from as bad as some people read (including the author of the article)
      3. Curious
        Curious 4 November 2017 14: 35
        +4
        Come on, Andrey is from Chelyabinsk! You can develop this your thought in more detail, as you see it, as if they crushed Hitler in the time of RI.
        And, if possible, highlight the question of how to become a superpower without automobile, aviation, radio engineering (we will not talk about others yet) in the XNUMXth century.
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 4 November 2017 15: 28
          13
          Hello Curiuos! The automobile industry in the Republic of Ingushetia existed and was actively developing during the war years. Here is a list of companies that made cars or were under construction:
          http://www.leanok.ru/2015/04/avtomobili-v-vrossiy
          skoy-imperii.html
          Here is a link to a 320-page monograph on electrification in RI:
          http://www.leanok.ru/2017/05/predistoria-goelro.h
          tml
          And here is a short list of the main development dates of the domestic radio industry:
          http://oldradioclub.ru/raznoe/hystory/hystory_045
          .html

          And this picture shows the dynamics of the supply of radio stations. As you can see, they were produced by hundreds. So, everything was fine with high-tech industries in Russia. If there was a lag somewhere, the tsarist government made efforts to eliminate it. So it was in the aircraft industry, where at the end of 1916 it was decided to build a number of state-owned aircraft plants.
          1. Horseman without a head
            Horseman without a head 4 November 2017 16: 27
            17
            I support Lieutenant Teterin and Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Glory to Peter, who laid the foundations of our defense industry and the industrialists of WWII. Unlike the current thieves-oligarchs, parasitic in the bowels of the earth - they were engaged in production.
            I read about the richest man in the empire - the Second.
            N. A. Vtorov was one of the most extraordinary entrepreneurs of the Russian Empire. He was a progressive industrialist. The mechanization of industrial enterprises by N. A. Vtorov was proceeding rapidly. At the same time, he did not force workers to work 14 hours a day and abandoned the system of fines. At his enterprises schools for workers and their families were opened, and well-constructed barracks were erected. The entrepreneur donated money to hospitals for the needs of the wounded and injured. About a million rubles was spent on the development of education in Siberia, some went to Irkutsk University, to create an industrial school.
            The influence of N. A. Vtorov on the development of Russian industry and the military industry is difficult to overestimate. The Soviet authorities later used many of his undertakings to develop the country. During the First World War, the factories of N. A. Vtorov worked "for the defense industry." Participating in various projects to create a manufactory market, military-industrial complex, heavy industry and metallurgy N. A. Vtorov and other Russian merchants and industrialists made a real patriotic feat, creating new sectors of domestic industry - chemical and metallurgical.
            The enterprises founded by N. A. Vtorov, after the revolution, were nationalized and made a great contribution to the industrial development of our country.
            drinks
          2. Curious
            Curious 4 November 2017 16: 38
            +7
            Lieutenant, Hello! I will not argue with you, because you simply do not perceive criticism of the Russian Empire. But someone will read it, so this is more for an unprepared reader. In addition, you, apparently, are the humanities and for you the presence of a plant is already an indicator of the presence of the industry.
            So - reference number 1 - the automotive industry of the Russian Empire.
            This article is "Automotive Industry of the Russian Empire" from the magazine "Russian Technician".
            Yes, the list is long - almost 60 productions. It is production, since the vast majority of this list are artisanal workshops such as Warsaw's Wakareci.
            And here is the first paragraph of an article about these plants.
            “Despite the fact that the list of car manufacturers of the Russian Empire is quite impressive, by 1914 there were no more than 15 cars in the Russian Empire. Moreover, a good half of them were military. The leader of the list, the Riga Russo-Balt, did not produce over all the years of its existence more than 000 cars. The capacity of the rest did not exceed tens of units per year. "
            In addition, talking about the automotive industry without an analysis of import dependence is not worth a damn. I'm not talking about the characteristics of the cars produced. Thus, the first paragraph of your objections is unfounded, and claims for the presence of the automotive industry in the full sense of the word are unfounded.
            Link number 2 - 320-page "monograph". For some reason, recently they stopped writing books, everyone writes monographs. Okay, let's see the monograph.
            Simonov N. S. Development of the electric power industry of the Russian Empire: background of the GOELRO.
            I do not know if this is Simonov, who comes from the Kirov Pedagogical Institute, who taught the history of the CPSU, but God be with him.
            Let's move on to the numbers.
            In 1913, Russia occupied the 5th place in the world in the production of electricity, producing 1,876 billion kW / h.
            For comparison, the United States (26,3 billion watts / hour), Germany (8 billion kW / hour, Great Britain (2,5 billion kW / hour), Italy (2,2 kW / hour), with 86% of electricity Moscow, St. Petersburg, Yekaterinoslav, Kiev provinces, the region of the Don and Transcaucasia Troops 41% of the electric power industry is concentrated in the Moscow and St. Petersburg provinces.
            For those who wish, I suggest that production be divided into the empire’s area in order to understand that most of Mother Russia was lit up with anything, but not electricity.
            So electrification also did not work out. Trying and doing are two big differences.
            Well, about the radio.
            Despite the achievements of Russian scientists and engineers in the field of radio communications, the Russian Empire has nothing to brag about here.
            Thanks to the equipment produced by the radio telegraph plant (ROBTiT), radio communications at the main maritime theater - the Baltic Sea - stood at a fairly high level. All old-type spark stations were replaced by new radio stations with a “sounding” spark, which provided stable and reliable communications, freer from interference. The production of these stations at the radio telegraph plant completely freed the Russian fleet from foreign dependence in the field of radio weapons. There was a well-organized service of coastal observation posts and coastal radio stations. So all your “hundreds” of radio stations are Baltic Fleet.
            Army radio communications and civilian radio communications were in a much worse situation. Instead of creating their own radio industry, cooperation with foreign companies was practiced. Formally, the contracts contained a clause stating that the supplied stations should be manufactured at Russian enterprises. To fulfill this clause of the agreements, Marconi and the German company Siemens and Halske created their Russian branches, where individual units and parts were imported from abroad and where essentially only stations were assembled from finished products delivered from abroad.
            Camping stations of Telefunken were available, but at the very beginning of the war there were no smaller stations, including cavalry, knapsack, and aircraft. Telefunken only supplied the German army with such stations.
            The same with field telephony. During WWII, there were about 60 telephone sets in the RIA.
            Well, there’s not much to fly on the decision to build aircraft plants, so we won’t even consider this issue.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 4 November 2017 22: 26
              +1
              Active fighters of the KOMUCH army are Izhevsk and Votkinsk workers. The Bolsheviks are for their happiness, and they are ... a bayonet in the back. After all! One of the most combat-ready units and all workers. Why's that?
              1. Curious
                Curious 4 November 2017 23: 21
                +3
                Incorrect question. The most combat-ready in KOMUCH’s army were the Kappel people. And the Izhevsk and Votkinsk people are the Izhevsk-Votkinsk uprising. The workers of Izhevsk and Votkinsk are a very peculiar part of the proletariat. After all, the Cossacks did not meet the Bolsheviks with salt either. And the causes of the rebellion and the ensuing bitter insight of the rebels are studied up and down. And the saga of the survivors ended first in white, then in red terror and the subsequent rebel battles by emigration to Manzhuria, and some to the USA.
            2. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 5 November 2017 11: 36
              +4
              Mr. Curious, you go on to criticize your opponent’s personality. This is good, because it means your awareness of the fallacy of your position. It annoys you and you seek to offend your opponent in order to divert the discussion to the side. I accept criticism of the Republic of Ingushetia, provided that it is well-reasoned and adequate. Or would you please me to be receptive to emotional agitation? I will disappoint you - this will not happen. In addition, I notice that you are extremely selectively reading the materials I cite, obviously trying to find in them only those facts that, in your opinion, demonstrate that Russia was "a backward country of rotten worthless tsarism."
              In the article about the automotive industry, you prefer not to notice a link to a material which provides information that at the end of 1916 the emperor signed a decree on the construction of six automobile plants with a total annual output of 7500 cars. Taking into account the experience of overcoming the shell hunger of 1915, 1916, it is safe to say that if it were not for the fanatical savages, who, after seizing power in October 1917, had to ignore the first years of industry, the Plan for the construction and production of cars at these plants was would be done completely.
              The same goes for electricity production. You did not notice that Russia lagged behind the same England slightly in the field of electricity production, and during the war years the volume of electricity generation increased by about 2,5 times and if you read the monograph you would know that the further development of the Russian electric power industry was interrupted by a revolution and civil war. Although I am a humanist, I can read and count. Unlike.
              You are talking about Russia's lag in the production of radio stations. But what about the data of Mr. Oleinikov, who, relying on documents, writes about the regular radio interception of messages by Russian divisions by the Germans. Where did the headquarters of each division on the radio station come from, if, as you say, things were worse with the army with radio communications? And yes, speaking of the collection of radio equipment from foreign components, you do not provide any evidence of your words. Do you believe that educated people will take your word for it?
              As for aircraft factories, the history of the auto industry is repeating itself here. The fanatics did not need airplanes in 1917. They needed power and no one allocated resources for their construction. But this is not the fault of the tsarist government, but the usurpers-Bolsheviks.
              PS Monograph - this is the same book, only containing a study written by one author on one topic.
              1. Curious
                Curious 5 November 2017 13: 18
                +2
                Dear Lieutenant! In no way was I going to hurt you in any way, mentioning your immunity to criticizing RI. This is nothing more than a statement of fact, which obviously has its own reasons. And your answer only confirms this. After all, we are discussing the state of the RI industry before the WWII, and not the “protocol of intentions”. Therefore, when you write that two and a half years after the outbreak of war, "the emperor signed an order to build six automobile plants with a total annual output of 7500 cars," then at the same time explain how this relates to car production in 1914 year. For any sane person, this suggests that there was no auto industry in the Republic of Ingushetia before the PMV.
                For information, only Germany during the years of WWII produced 40 trucks (lorries).
                So, Lieutenant, nothing personal, just the facts. Everything else is the same. I emphasize once again - during the discussion I am emotional, but this is aimed solely at the subject of the dispute, and not at the personality of the opponent. However, if the opponent does not perceive reality - then I have to do with it. Therefore, do not bring down, as they say, with a sore head ... (this is a saying).
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 November 2017 17: 31
          +3
          Quote: Curious
          You can develop this your thought in more detail, as you see it, as if they crushed Hitler in the time of RI.

          So elementary :)))) Hitler, having come to power, consistently violated the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, but France and England turned a blind eye to this. Moreover, if we honor the same Churchill, we will see that France, seeing that something is growing near its borders, periodically began to get very nervous, but did not dare to act independently. At the same time, the military power of Germany in 1936-37 was essentially insignificant. The USSR, which very consistently pointed out the danger of German fascism, was too weak and had neither common borders with Germany, nor military force to bring it to life, and even make such an attempt — howl would be dark. But if you were in his place, the Republic of Ingushetia, which would have stood after the WWII and would have been a party to the Versailles treaty — would have entered dozens of divisions with the peacekeeping mission (with the tacit approval of France) —and this is the end.
          Quote: Curious
          And, if possible, highlight the question of how to become a superpower without automobile, aviation, radio engineering (we will not talk about others yet) in the XNUMXth century.

          No way. But here's the thing - they were and developed in the Republic of Ingushetia, simply lagging behind other powers. I must note that in the USSR there was a similar situation - we had an auto and aircraft industry, but it was inferior to advanced countries.
          In general, it is insanely interesting to try to imagine where domestic industry could turn out in the absence of revolution and civil war without the USSR. Let's just say that it could have turned out very well, but in principle, there were some chances to get industry comparable to the USSR.
          1. Curious
            Curious 4 November 2017 17: 45
            +8
            Only you forget that the partners in the Entente did not at all plan for Russia the role of an equal partner after the WWII. It doesn’t matter, Russian is an empire or the USSR. The formation of the USSR simply eased the task ideologically.
            Therefore, the fact that Germany would remain within the framework of the Versailles restrictions can be dreamed of, but no more. We know how fast Germany was rebuilt after WWII, although the degree of destruction is incomparable. It was just that Germany was needed against Russian Iperia / USSR, call it whatever you like. So about the "pacification" of Germany, one and a half dozen divisions - you can dream, but even in the altistory I did not see something.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 November 2017 18: 26
              +1
              Quote: Curious
              Only you forget that the partners in the Entente did not at all plan for Russia the role of an equal partner after the WWII.

              Why do we need this? What they planned there and what wasn’t, it’s a fortunate question, but there are simple facts — France was not smiling at all with the resurgent Germany at hand, and the British were trite to play in a system of counterweights, not wanting to over-strengthen France’s positions in Europe. Therefore, the British did not support France in its desire to tame the Germans (and they periodically showed such a desire) but if RI were there ... the alignment would be completely different
              Quote: Curious
              It was just that Germany was needed against Russian Iperia / USSR, call it whatever you like.

              Nope.
              1. Curious
                Curious 4 November 2017 19: 23
                +5
                Blessed is he who believes. By the way, do you leave the US role of the province, which does not affect anything?
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 November 2017 13: 53
                  0
                  And the USA in these years distanced themselves from Europe
      4. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 4 November 2017 23: 56
        +3
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        And you ask yourself another question - could the Russian Empire be in the position of the USSR in 1941? :)))) The answer is no. If the Russian Empire - Hitler would be crushed in the bud

        I doubt it very much. In 1914, the cheers-patriots also shouted that we would throw the Germans with their hats. In a big war, the country whose economic and industrial potential is higher wins. In the USSR, he surpassed not only Germany, but also all their allies.
        1. zoolu350
          zoolu350 5 November 2017 05: 01
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Green

          I doubt it very much. In 1914, the cheers-patriots also shouted that we would throw the Germans with their hats. In a big war, the country whose economic and industrial potential is higher wins. In the USSR, he surpassed not only Germany, but also all their allies.

          A good economic and industrial potential is one of the main indicators of the state’s power, but it is not enough. The ideological component of the second importance, it allows in a big war, sometimes to compensate for the mismatch of economic and industrial potential, where possible.
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 November 2017 17: 49
          0
          Quote: Alexander Green
          In a big war, the country whose economic and industrial potential is higher wins.

          So it’s in a big war, and in 1936 no big war came out - it needs an army that Germany didn’t have
      5. zoolu350
        zoolu350 5 November 2017 04: 55
        +1
        Without the presence of the USSR, Herr Hitler was not needed by the Fed owners. In February 1917 Fed owners felt that they had finished off Russia, but the Bolsheviks came and broke them off. At first, the owners of the Fed tried to solve the problem themselves, simultaneously using their "white" slaves, but broke off and the USSR arose. To radically solve the problem with the USSR, Herr Hitler was raised.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 5 November 2017 08: 26
          0
          Eh, that’s all it would be in the amount of 10 p. Yes with links to sources, yes to the journal Voprosy istorii. Prices would not be for this stuff!
          1. zoolu350
            zoolu350 5 November 2017 08: 33
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            Eh, that’s all it would be in the amount of 10 p. Yes with links to sources, yes to the journal Voprosy istorii. Prices would not be for this stuff!

            By the end of 1923, at the time of the so-called "beer coup" - a failed coup attempt by the NSDAP stormtroopers, significant steps had already been taken to bring the Anglo-American and German bankers closer together. In the depths of the Morgan group, at the direction of the head of the Bank of England, Montagu Norman, a program was developed for the penetration of Anglo-American capital into the German economy. This was preceded by active negotiations between Normann's friend, the future head of the Reichsbank, Hjalmar Schacht, with British and American colleagues. The plan, providing for a two-fold reduction in reparations and the sources for their payment, was proposed by the American banker Charles Dawes and adopted at a conference in London in the summer of 1924.
            As part of the "Dawes plan", American banks until 1929 provided the Germans with loans for $ 2,5 billion, British - for $ 1,5 billion (for $ 15-20 at that time, it was possible for two to relax for a week on the coast of not the cheapest European resort) ... This made it possible not only to pay reparations, but also to direct a significant (if not most) part of the funds to restore the economy and, above all, the military industry. American scientist Epperson argued that without money from Wall Street "there would be no Hitler and World War II." At the same time, the United States and England were generously writing off debts. As a result, by 1934 Germany was able to pay off its foreign loans by more than 90 percent.
            So almost everyone knows about it.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 5 November 2017 21: 42
              0
              Everything is nobody! That's why it is said about the links. Only not on "live magazines", but documents should be referenced ...
      6. badens1111
        badens1111 6 November 2017 11: 29
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        If the Russian Empire - Hitler would be crushed in the bud

        With all due respect, you are very mistaken.
        The course of world history turned out to be such that there were absolutely no conditions for maintaining the EMPIRE of that period. Not one Russian empire collapsed, everything in Europe collapsed.
        So your message is an alternative with huge assumptions.
        But the point is “By signing the Treaty of Versailles, the Germans did not hide that they were doing this only by submitting to force. It was obvious that sooner or later, but one of the greatest cultures in Europe would find an opportunity to oppose its own force.” And from this, proceed, the reality turned out to be such that Germany, having defeated, demanded revenge. And this would have happened with any alternative.

        In general, it is worth reading one of the recognized masters of reconstruction and alternative versions of history, S. Pereslegin.
        http://e-libra.su/read/138209-vtoraya-mirovaya-vo
        jna-mezhdu-realnostyami.html
        In addition, in debunking myths, they say the Reds are to blame for everything ..
        According to G.N. Mikhailovsky (the son of a famous writer, witness and participant in the civil war), the leaders of the white movement believed that when it comes to the Bolsheviks, then there is generally no price that Russia would not pay. They were ready to accept the occupation of Russia, all the same - German or allied. None of them could hold out without foreign help. Skoropadsky’s regime in Ukraine immediately collapsed as soon as the Germans left, and Skoropadsky himself fled with them. Denikin served two thousand British officers and non-commissioned officers. Britain provided Denikin with supplies of full equipment and weapons (rifles and guns) for 250 people. Kolchak also received military equipment from the Entente for 000 soldiers.

        And after that, Denikin complains that he was not able to give the white movement a national and patriotic character! Not understanding or not wanting to understand the essence of the civil war, in his memoirs written after the defeat, he described it only as a kind of "Russian unrest", as some inexplicable process of decomposition and addition of social layers ...
        http://velib.com/read_book/bessonov_boris_nikolae
        vich / vladimir_lenin__sobiratel_zemel_russkikh / gla
        va_ii_borba_lenina_za_sokhranenie_rossijjskojj_de
        rzhavy /
        The answer is more than obvious what was waiting for RI, the Second World War for the redivision of the world, would start with the wheels of the First World War, and no longer against Germany itself. But against Russia.
        http://lt90.org/reviews/ap_articles.php?article_i
        d = 108
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 November 2017 20: 04
          0
          Quote: badens1111
          With all due respect, you are very mistaken.

          I do not impose my point of view on anyone :)
          Quote: badens1111
          The course of world history turned out to be such that there were absolutely no conditions for maintaining the EMPIRE of that period. Not one Russian empire collapsed, everything in Europe collapsed.

          ??? Excuse me, what do you mean by empire? The British Empire certainly did not collapse anywhere (this happened during and after WWII). France was not formally listed in empires, although it had all its attributes (including the highly developed colonial system)
          Quote: badens1111
          But the point is, "When signing the Treaty of Versailles, the Germans did not hide that they were doing this only by submitting to force. It was obvious that sooner or later, but one of the greatest cultures in Europe would find an opportunity to oppose this force

          Naturally :) But, you see, one desire will not go far. We also need resources and an appropriate foreign policy climate. Hitler had all this, but in the event of the existence of the Russian Empire, it would not have happened. For one simple reason, there would have been two strong powers in Europe (France and RI) that didn’t sideways restore Germany’s military power.
          Quote: badens1111
          In general, it is worth reading one of the recognized masters of reconstruction and alternative versions of history, S. Pereslegin.

          I read. Pereslegin, in essence, has only one problem - he sets out a very alternative version of the story :)))) For his time he was very good, once I read to them :)))
          Quote: badens1111
          In addition, in debunking myths, they say the Reds are to blame for everything ..

          The Reds are certainly not to blame for everything :)))) It wasn’t they who ruined the empire :)))) Anyway, I don’t say at all that it was "Russia we lost !, and then the Bolsheviks came and they ruined everything. Just .. far from everything was bad under the tsar, far from everything was good under the Bolsheviks. By their totality, the Bolsheviks led the USSR into a superpower that was second only to the USA and not so fatally. The Russian Empire never took such a position in the world. RI existed much longer than the USSR ... but, alas, it fell.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 6 November 2017 21: 59
            +1
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Hitler had all this, but in the event of the existence of the Russian Empire, it would not have happened. For one simple reason, there would have been two strong powers in Europe (France and RI) that didn’t sideways restore Germany’s military power.

            There is a counterargument to this argument — any strengthening of France on the continent will inevitably include England’s reflex to suppressing a competitor, and if so, then again, strengthening Germany in the first place, and secondly, aggression against Russia.
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Just ... far from everything was bad under the tsar, far from everything was good under the Bolsheviks

            I do not argue, but nevertheless, to compare the achievements of the first and the USSR .. not in favor of Nicholas 2 is not at all in favor. The late USSR .. yes management errors plus direct betrayal, the country died.
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            On the other hand, RI existed much longer than the USSR ... but, alas, it fell.

            The first is always harder than the next, they don’t repeat his mistakes. But this does not mean that the Red Project is closed to Russia, but rather the liberal one, as it turns out, is getting closer to its complete failure.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 November 2017 18: 02
              0
              Quote: badens1111
              There is a counterargument to this argument — any strengthening of France on the continent will inevitably include England’s reflex to suppressing a competitor, and if so, then again, strengthening Germany in the first place, and secondly, aggression against Russia.

              This is true, but here in Europe there are already two poles of power - Russia and France, and if they suddenly unite to tame Germany, England will not support Germany, but will make every effort to quarrel Russia and France
              Quote: badens1111
              however, to compare the achievements of the first and the USSR .. not in favor of Nicholas 2

              I agree, Nikolai was a weak ruler. In many ways, the achievements of the kingdom of the latter did not stem from his actions, but from the foundation laid by Alexander III
              By the way, what’s interesting - if there were someone at the place of Kolya No. 2 at the level of Alexander III ... I would have looked with interest what would be there with the REV and WWI :)))))
              Quote: badens1111
              The first is always harder than the next, they do not repeat his mistakes

              Alas, the only lesson in history is that people do not remember its lessons.
              Quote: badens1111
              But this does not mean that the Red Project is closed for Russia

              I also really hope so.
              Quote: badens1111
              liberal, as it turns out, is getting closer to its complete failure.

              Which, in fact, is to a certain extent dictated by the shortcomings of capitalism as an economic system.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 7 November 2017 18: 09
                +1
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                This is true, but here in Europe there are already two poles of power - Russia and France, and if they suddenly unite to tame Germany, England will not support Germany, but will make every effort to quarrel Russia and France

                Here it’s something out of the corner of my ear, but I heard England is always balancing in politics-THREE against TWO. That is, France will strengthen, Germany will strengthen, Germany will strengthen, and, let alone Russia ... that is, a block of countries will be knocked together , well, it’s not for nothing that the sailors said a hundred years ago- "Englishwoman shits"
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                In many ways, the achievements of the kingdom of the latter did not stem from his actions, but from the foundation laid by Alexander III
                By the way, what’s interesting - if there were someone at the place of Kolya No. 2 at the level of Alexander III ... I would have looked with interest what would be there with the REV and WWI :)))))

                Then I agree, this king was not like an untalented descendant, if there was a figure worthy of him on the throne, everything would probably have gone differently.
                THE ROLE OF PERSONALITY in History, how different are screaming against it ..
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                I also really hope so.

                good
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Which, in fact, is to a certain extent dictated by the shortcomings of capitalism as an economic system.

                I agree. drinks )))
  14. nivander
    nivander 4 November 2017 14: 58
    +1
    tops could not bottoms did not want
  15. Blue cop
    Blue cop 4 November 2017 15: 00
    17
    Russia in the beginning. 20th century followed the path of industrialization
    And gradually turned into a social state
    The war interrupted revolution. Maybe it wouldn’t be necessary to tear the navel
    Although who knows ...
    1. Pushkar
      Pushkar 4 November 2017 17: 00
      +2
      Quote: Blue Cop

      And gradually turned into a social state
      .
      Handsomely. Autocratic socialism. "Dream." (movie "Foreman")
      1. Blue cop
        Blue cop 4 November 2017 17: 41
        15
        Yes, there was no longer autocracy
        Tales and Shores
        Signs of autocracy and absolutism look
        After 1905, a constitutional monarchy began to take shape.
        RI Basic Laws Adopted
        The State Duma appeared
        Secured Democratic Freedoms
        Look at what authority gradually remained in the hands of the king. And since 1915 - also the government responsible to the Duma.
        Const was formed. British-style monarchy. And Nikolasha could in prosp. calmly cut firewood and be just an avatar, perform representative functions.
        The process was interrupted, traded for the heze knows what - and now the European monarchies have socialism (English, Swedish), and we have ghouls-oligarchs in power, the pupils will not say what system
        1. Pushkar
          Pushkar 4 November 2017 23: 05
          +2
          Quote: Blue Cop
          Yes, there was no longer autocracy
          Not, of course not. Only the tsar dispersed the thought over the first sneeze, and Grishka appointed ministers. And so-purely democracy.
          1. Blue cop
            Blue cop 4 November 2017 23: 26
            15
            Ministers appointed Grishka

            This is an interesting question. Rather, it affected the appointment - and then it was inflated out of business.
            pure democracy

            Didn't say that
            the king dispersed the thought on the first sneeze

            First, not first)
            Secondly - I’m saying that only CONST started to form. monarchy. Not the first sneeze wink
            Yeltsin didn’t even dissolve at all, but shot the Supreme Council - although he was not an autocrat
  16. kalibr
    kalibr 5 November 2017 08: 23
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    In the USSR, he surpassed not only Germany, but also all their allies.

    Look at how many cars Germany made and how many USSR. And how many received them by dend-lease.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 5 November 2017 16: 34
      +3
      Quote: kalibr
      Look at how many cars Germany made and how many USSR. And how many received them by dend-lease.

      You, as Olgovich, also think that digital numbers are the main thing. No, you are deeply mistaken. All numbers require a qualitative analysis.
      Yes, Lend-Lease helped to defeat Germany, but the question is: Could the USSR do without Lend-Lease at all? It could have. If we talk about the role of Lend-Lease in the victory of the USSR, then do not forget about two points.
      First, on the whole, the share of Lend-Lease products in the total volume of materials, equipment, food, machinery, raw materials, etc., produced and delivered to the USSR is usually estimated at 4%.
      Yes, for some types of equipment and materials, Lend-Lease supplies accounted for most of the total production thereof in the USSR. But the absence of these supplies would not be critical for the USSR, because The USSR could well redistribute its production efforts so as to provide itself with everything necessary. The industrial capabilities of the USSR allowed to increase the production of the same cars in the right amount.
      Secondly, it should be noted that the main volumes of Lend-Lease deliveries to the USSR began after a radical change in the war in 1943, when the USSR already had a strategic initiative. The vast majority of machinery, equipment and materials were delivered to the USSR in 1943-1945.
      Of course, Lend-Lease helped save hundreds of thousands of lives of Soviet citizens, and for this the USSR is grateful to its allies, but there is no need to exaggerate its significance in order to belittle the role of the USSR in the Victory over fascism, as you do.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 5 November 2017 21: 54
        +1
        Count the cars. They would start producing cars more - there would be less tanks, there wasn’t enough rubber for cars, tanks drove on wheels without rubber, their roar was heard for kilometers, more cars there were fewer guns ... and so on and on. Open the Truth for December 41. Whose tanks are there on the first page? And a photo and a caption under them. And then in Guderian’s diary for comparison. By numbers and by years, and then write about belittling ...
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 6 November 2017 02: 31
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          Count the cars. They would start producing cars more - there would be less tanks, there wasn’t enough rubber for cars, tanks drove on wheels without rubber, their roar was heard for kilometers, more cars there were fewer guns ... and so on and on.

          For those who inattentively read, I repeat.
          Yes, for some types of equipment and materials (INCLUDING AND CARS), Lend-Lease deliveries accounted for most of the total production of such in the USSR. But the absence of these supplies would not be critical for the USSR, because The USSR could well redistribute its production efforts in such a way (NOT MANDATORY AT THE expense of PRODUCING TANKS) in order to provide itself with everything necessary. The industrial capabilities of the USSR allowed to increase the production of the same cars in the right amount.
      2. Pushkar
        Pushkar 6 November 2017 00: 06
        0
        Quote: Alexander Green

        Secondly, it should be noted that the main volumes of Lend-Lease deliveries to the USSR began after a radical change in the war in 1943.
        From August 1941 to December 1942, 22 Arctic convoys out of a total of 78 arrived in the USSR. And they arrived in the most difficult time for us, when there was an evacuation of industry and the release of weapons and equipment was practically zero. Do not be ungrateful, these deliveries saved millions of lives of our compatriots. My father flew a Boston.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 6 November 2017 02: 39
          0
          Quote: Pushkar
          Do not be ungrateful, these deliveries saved millions of lives of our compatriots. My father flew a Boston.

          For those who do not read carefully, I repeat.
          Of course, Lend-Lease helped save hundreds of thousands of lives of Soviet citizens, and for this the USSR is grateful to its alliesbut it’s not necessary to exaggerate its significance in order to belittle the role of the USSR in the Victory over fascism, how do you do (this did not write to you).
          PS Calculate how many of the composition of the first 22 convoys did not reach Murmansk ships, PQ-17 was almost completely sunk. In addition, the fuselages of the aircraft were carried on one ship, on the other wings, when one of them was sunk, the load of the other was already just scrap. And such cases were not isolated.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 6 November 2017 12: 11
            +1
            22 CONVENTION REACHED! And we really began to win precisely from the 43 of the year when "The vast majority of equipment, equipment and materials were delivered to the USSR in the 1943-1945 years." That is, if it weren’t for Lend-Lease and American, Canadian and English cars ... we wouldn’t have to step over to victory without victory. And the fuel to the tanks would be carried on horses ... However, ignorance is correctable. Raise your ass, stomp into the library or archive, take the "Truth" for 11 June 1944 years and read the Messages ow. government on Lend-Lease deliveries.
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 6 November 2017 12: 28
            +2
            No need to count how many did not get it. It must be considered how much they received, but they got how much: every second shot, a Soviet soldier against the enemy was fired on imported gunpowder. for gasoline - more than 55% - every second bombardment was made thanks to "Uncle Sam", for copper and aluminum - more than 70%, for armor plate - 46%. During the war years in the USSR, 115,4 thousand metal-cutting machines were produced. The Allies delivered another 44,6 thousand - moreover, higher quality and more expensive ones. At 1945, out of 665 thousand of available trucks, 427 thousand were received under Lend-Lease. Of these, about 100 thousand were legendary Studebakers. For cars, 3 786 000 tires were also delivered. While in the USSR for all the years of the war, only cars were produced - 265,5 thousand units. all of disgusting quality breaking on every kilometer of roads. In general, before the war, the Red Army's need for vehicles was estimated at 744 thousand and 92 thousand tractors. There were 272,6 thousand cars and 42 thousand tractors. From the national economy it was planned to receive only 240 thousand cars, of which 210 thousand trucks, not counting tractors. And even summing up these figures we do not get the planned staffing levels. And of those that were already in the army by 22.08.41, 271,4 thousand Soviet automobiles were lost. If we talk about the production of cars in general, then during the war in the USSR, 205 thousand cars were manufactured, and 477 thousand were received under the Lend-Lease, that is, 2,3 times more. It is also worth mentioning that 55% of cars produced in the USSR during the war were GAZ-MM trucks with 1,5 t payload - “one and a half trucks”. Raw materials and resources. Non-ferrous metals - 802 000 tons (of which 387600 tons of copper (the USSR produced 27816 tons of copper for 1941-45)), petroleum products - 2 670 000 tons, chemicals - 842 000 tons, cotton - 106 893 000 49 860 331 066 tons, alcohol - 15 417 l. Ammunition: army boots - 000 1 541 pairs, blankets - 590 257 723, buttons - 498 15 3 pieces, 4 million pairs of shoes. The telephone cable received from the USA in 478 times exceeded the amount that the USSR produced during the war. Food - 000 250 700 tons. Under Lend-Lease, the USSR received 50 thousand tons of stews, 1942 thousand tons of sugar, more than 9000% of the USSR’s need for fats and vegetable oils. Separately, it is necessary to mention those delivered to the USSR in XNUMX. - XNUMX tons of seed.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 6 November 2017 19: 07
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              It must be considered how many have received,

              So we got less than we think, because lying at the bottom of the seas and oceans together with sunken ships believe that we also got it.
    2. long in stock.
      long in stock. 5 November 2017 19: 42
      +1
      Well, Vyacheslav, in Germany, the start of the same auto industry took place as early as possible? But this is a lot and not even in factories. People need time to prepare. But it takes a lot of time for a person to reach the master level. the number of necessary professionals is generally grabbed by the head. so the numbers are really not all ..
  17. Nagaibak
    Nagaibak 5 November 2017 19: 28
    +3
    Olgovich Nagaybak @ Do not deprive them of a gracious picture.))) This is a kind of religion, they very much believe in this picture. [/ Quote]
    Dear comrade, 30 years ago I had the same picture that stuck with you so far.
    But then, by virtue of curiosity and comparisons, another one came together.
    try more READ: critically, questioning and verifying, but honestly.
    And see for yourself. "
    To begin with, you are not my friend.))) You yourself have been recorded as gentlemen.))) And I am a simple hard worker. I understood from your comment that you think in images and pictures. For God's sake.))) If it’s more convenient for you than the question, this is your business. I used to rely on facts, documents. And about reading more ... I am a historian by training and could easily deal with your gaps in historical issues. You have low knowledge of the issue ... excuse me.))) Please do not hesitate ... (how can I help) ... and save your advice for households.)))
  18. kalibr
    kalibr 5 November 2017 21: 48
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    During the Second World War they ended.

    Strange, I still stand in Penza and people live in them. Of course, this is not Petersburg, but people everywhere people ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  19. Pushkar
    Pushkar 6 November 2017 11: 49
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    but it’s not necessary to exaggerate its significance in order to belittle the role of the USSR in the Victory over fascism,
    PS Calculate how many of the composition of the first 22 convoys did not reach Murmansk ships, PQ-17 was almost completely sunk.
    I talked about millionsand not about hundreds of thousands of saved lives. And then. losses were in all 78 arctic convoys.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 6 November 2017 12: 31
      0
      Let him tear off the seat, go to the archive or library and read the Truth from 11 of June 1944 of the year ... There is something to read ...
  20. Servla
    Servla 6 November 2017 15: 29
    +2
    Happy Great Holiday! Happy October Revolution! We are waiting for the USSR 2.0
  21. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 6 November 2017 19: 11
    +2
    Quote: Pushkar
    I spoke of millions, not hundreds of thousands of saved lives. And then. losses were in all 78 arctic convoys.

    Well, your brother doesn’t get used to waving millions, because who counted them. But the losses of all 78 convoys were recorded on the balance of the USSR, and when the British drowned our gold, which the USSR paid for Lend-Lease, they demanded a second batch from us.
  22. Sergey Nemov
    Sergey Nemov 28 December 2020 19: 50
    +9
    A number of historians today not only refute the fact that the revolution was inevitable, but distort reality for the sake of the conjuncture

    Everything is being revised in the modern world, including history.
  23. Sergey Nemov
    Sergey Nemov 28 December 2020 19: 57
    +6
    no one outside the Bolshevik Party was going to hinder an armed uprising

    How was it not? There were such. Kamenev and Zinoviev, were opponents of the uprising, Trotsky, considered it necessary to time the uprising to the time of the future Congress of Soviets. Lenin demanded to start an uprising immediately