Military Review

For the Nord-Ost tragedy, you need to say “thank you” to Yeltsin

63
For the Nord-Ost tragedy, you need to say “thank you” to YeltsinFifteen years ago, for almost a thousand people present at the Moscow Theater Center on Dubrovka, the 57 hours of utter hell began. A group of terrorists, led by the “destroyed” Movsar Barayev, drove up the motorcade to the building where the popular musical “Nord-Ost” was taking place. Spectators, actors and employees of the theater center were taken hostage.


Today, from a height of ten years past, it may seem to someone "exciting movie." But for those who were lucky enough to survive, it is not easy to remember those days now, no matter how healer the time is. Yes, the secret services then worked the way they worked - at the limit of objective possibilities, the doctors did what they could do in the proposed circumstances (and they were offered unimportant: the lack of antidotes to gas, and it is not clear what, lack of cars, blocked entrances to the building .. .), the terrorists were destroyed and even, to the amazement of the public, they tried to continue to play the musical on the same stage (grief, and money with money). Life went on as usual, but people did not want to forget about those three days, no matter how much some people would like to.

Probably Moscow’s then mayor, Yury Mikhailovich Luzhkov, could not have imagined in a nightmare that on the eve of the tragic jubilee he would have to personally criticize the actions of the operational services to rescue hostages in the pages of the Moskovsky Komsomolets. “On the issues of emergency medical care during the rescue operation, the physicians contacted the operational headquarters. Honestly, I don’t understand in whose interest it was to hide this information, when everyone had a task (it was put that way) to rescue the hostages as much as possible, ”noted Yuri Mikhailovich and, noting the operation’s defects as a whole, complained:“ First of all the services that were supposed to provide information about the impending terrorist operation were not working. Until the moment the duty officer called me and reported the hostage taking, we didn’t suspect anything. ”

And today, the authorities no longer suspect that there are people left - relatives of those who went to the theater center for a musical performance and remained there forever. “Representatives of the city hall stopped coming to Dubrovka. Maybe there was some kind of installation to forget, not to remind. Maybe so. I do not know. It is a shame, ”Iosif Kobzon, who, with his pediatric surgeon Leonid Roshal, went to the terrorists to negotiate the release of children, sadly shared with Vedomosti several years ago with sadness.

Luzhkov himself described Kobzon’s act in an interview with MK as “brave before the absurd,” but even before Joseph Davydovich, in the very first hours of the terrorist attack, Olga Romanova came to ask for the hostages. When she learned that terrorists had taken hostages near her home, among whom there are children, she, without hesitation, ran to the theater center - to talk with terrorists who "also have children."

The gang of Movsar Barayeva did not divide Olya’s humane impulses and shot her, as she shot also the officer of the military prosecutor’s office Konstantin Vasilyev, who also rushed to help the children after learning about the incident. Vasilyev’s impulse was not appreciated not only by the terrorists, but also by the state: only two years later he was posthumously awarded the Order of Courage, and until that time the Ministry of Defense had “doubts”. Feat an officer committed "in his spare time from the service" ...

The authorities seem to understand that it will not be possible to make the people forget about the terrorist act and its “events” before and after it. But, therefore, it is possible to at least admit mistakes, to take at least part of the blame on yourself? .. With this, it is not much, but there are examples. Former head of the Duma security committee, Vladimir Vasilyev, in an interview with Vedomosti, noted that he also “bears part of the blame” for what happened at Dubrovka in 2002, since he was then deputy minister of internal affairs. “Well, we couldn't,” he stated.

Even so. At least honestly.

Those events in a conversation with a KM.RU columnist were recalled by a prominent criminalist, Lieutenant-General Alexander Gurov, who was then chairman of the State Duma’s Security Committee:

- A few days before Nord-Ost, there was an explosion at Moscow's McDonald's, the Caucasus was boiling up, the special services were mobilized, as they say, stood on their ears ... How could such a well-organized terrorist attack in the theater center happen in such conditions?

- What does “special services were mobilized”? They began to smash them from the beginning of 90's, and it lasted until about 1996-97 of the year. I personally left Lubyanka in 1994, when the fifth department reform was underway. The pseudo-democrats of the first wave did everything to destroy the special services. I am responsible for my words.

Perhaps the only thing that Yeltsin did not go for was the law on lustration for employees of the authorities; then a guerrilla war would begin.

The secret services destroyed so that, God forbid, there was no “counter-revolution”. The agent's office was also destroyed: he was tormented by constant checks, organized humiliation. And when the attacks started, everyone immediately came to their senses: where are they ?! And they are there: who is in business, who is retired.

There is a philistine concept - "Russian maybe." Maybe nothing will happen. Somewhere there - the attacks, explosions, and then - maybe blow over. And the criminal needs it: all the fools around, you can act, they will not catch ...

In Israel, the security services have long realized the danger of terrorism, an antiterrorist campaign is being conducted there, informing citizens is at the height. When an Israelite enters the store, he does not need to be asked to show the bag: he opens it immediately. He understands that this is necessary, and does not consider it humiliation.

We then just simply were not ready for such challenges. Even now we are not particularly ready, although with vigilance, of course, it has become better.

And you can not discount the lack of discipline, corruption in the bodies. Already after the terrorist attack, I remember, they condemned one major, who clearly saw that some suspicious people were hanging around not at all of European appearance (it’s not about the appearance as such, but about signs): there would be at least no verification of the documents! It seems there even gave a bribe - for sure it was.

And under such supervision, the terrorist group continued to build its nest, preparing for the terrorist attack. Here are the circumstances - the destroyed system, “maybe” and disorder with corruption, which eventually played into the hands of those who plotted the attack in the theater center.

And today, journalists often ask me questions: “And what has changed?”, “Are we ready today for such challenges?”. But what does “ready” or “not ready” mean? No one will give one hundred percent guarantee that this will never happen anywhere else. In no country, no one will give an absolute guarantee. But the probability of repeating that tragedy now, of course, is minimized. Over the past decade, more than a thousand militants were destroyed, and the main headquarters of gangs were defeated. And in Chechnya, no matter how we criticize Kadyrov, but let's be honest, order. In Chechnya, the situation has returned to normal. Yes, another thing is that such a price, but it is - a topic for another conversation.

Today's special services and police special forces, again, compared with what was before, are heaven and earth. Gained professionalism, restored agent networks, without which - nowhere.

“Many years have passed, and the debate about how to properly rescue the hostages has not ceased until now ...”

- According to some liberal talkers, it was not necessary to eventually go to the assault: it was necessary to follow the instructions of the terrorists and thus save lives. And the demands were to withdraw the troops - no less. But imagine: a plane with several hundred passengers is flying towards New York or Washington, and the American special services are receiving information that a terrorist attack is being prepared with its help. The plane would have shot down. There is a concept of extreme necessity, which is reflected in the legislation. By causing less harm, we prevent more harm.

To those who stormed, there are no complaints: they are heroes. They acted correctly. The order for the assault was given correctly, and there was no objective way to use a sleeping gas, at that time it was not objectively: otherwise, the theater center would simply take off.

Yes, of course, those who went to negotiate with terrorists helped the cause. They are great, they helped. But let's be honest: they still could not somehow qualitatively influence the situation, dissuade the terrorists, save all the hostages. They distracted them - it was important, they were great, but the situation still needed to be resolved radically, and the use of a special gas was the only way out, I understood that too.

Some say: well, that the terrorists did not blow up the building when the gas went? But the gas is not French perfume, its concentration was calculated to put the terrorists to sleep before they realize that something is wrong.

But with the implementation, of course, hurried, could not distribute antidotes, warn doctors, conduct a normal evacuation and assist. I think the victims would be minimized. This is a mistake, if not a pure crime. After all, if we are preparing such a difficult special operation and we understand that people may suffer there, we need to foresee everything to minimize the harm.

Now they are justifying that, they say, there were antidotes, but they did not have time to distribute them. These are all empty excuses. And the point is not whether gas has been classified or not. Even if they declassified: if there are simply no antidotes, what can doctors do? The proper instruction of the doctors was not carried out, and after all they were preparing for the operation, studying similar objects ... That is, the decision to start the gas was not made in a hurry, not an hour before the assault - it was worked out. Worked out all that is possible, but missed this moment. And this manifested the abominable attitude of the authorities towards their own population.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2012/10/23/obshchestvenno-politicheskaya-zhizn-v-rossii/695590-za-tragediyu-nord-osta-nuzhn
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 25 October 2017 15: 07
    +7
    Once again I looked at a photo of that event ... it's hard to watch ... I also recalled BESLAN ... a pile of burnt children's bodies ... in general, our people paid a bloody price for all the miscalculations of power ...
    I hope this does not happen again.
    1. You Vlad
      You Vlad 25 October 2017 15: 28
      +8
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Once again I looked at a photo of that event ... it's hard to watch ... I also recalled BESLAN ... a pile of burnt children's bodies ... in general, our people paid a bloody price for all the miscalculations of power ...

      If I knew a buy-in, I would live in Sochi! There was a war going on and there is (I do not know what else to say) the West with Russia! The West does not spare money, we pay with our lives ...
      Now who is it, or the white flag! Gorbachev already threw it ...
      1. domokl
        domokl 26 October 2017 06: 59
        +3
        There are very controversial conclusions. In particular, about the preparation for the evacuation. If the terrorists had noticed that preparations had begun to receive the wounded, an undermining would have been inevitable.
        Due to circumstances, I watched this operation literally from a neighboring house. The palace even borders with the hospital of war veterans and the apartment building on Dubrovka.
        And from there it was perfectly clear that a bunch of journalists "leaked" information to their body and radio channels, a lot of callers. The leakage was huge.
        The fighters worked great. But to instruct the ambulance doctors about how to transport the victims no one guessed.
        There is nothing to go straight to the hospital. But this distance was enough for the person to choke ..
        And Kobzon and Roshal for me then became really people with a capital letter.
        1. NIKNN
          NIKNN 26 October 2017 13: 05
          +2
          For the Nord-Ost tragedy, you need to say “thank you” to Yeltsin

          Yes, we, in general, together with Gorbachev, should be “grateful” to the grave of life, Although we honor the memory of what is there ..., only the Yeltsintsentr is worth ... request
  2. the most important
    the most important 25 October 2017 15: 08
    +6
    Hundreds of people died due to the lack of leadership of the operation. That's always the case: some went to their deaths and saved the hostages, while others can only pick their nose in warm chairs in their nose ...
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 25 October 2017 15: 53
      +5
      And in Budenovsk how Chernomyrdin "led", as he led ...
    2. Reserve officer
      Reserve officer 25 October 2017 23: 45
      +8
      What the hell is the leadership of the operation, when everything was broadcast live. I personally saw all this on TV! And now everyone has been dragged in - both Yeltsin and Luzhkov.
      Who moved forward, who entered what doors - everything was broadcast! Gentlemen, television people put their rating above all. And none of those television tvs .. she took any responsibility for this complicity. Burn you all in hell, fucking media! You will enthusiastically comment on the death time of your parents, if you all raise this rating. Inhumans. Loot above all, right? There, first of all, it was necessary to neutralize the fucking reporters who brilliantly performed the role of terrorist informants.
      And I want to say - the author of the article was not there either. So it’s better to shut up and not aggravate the hatred of corrupt media.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 26 October 2017 07: 10
        0
        Quote: Reserve officer
        Loot above all, right? First of all, it was necessary to neutralize the fucking reporters there.

        So they didn’t neutralize them?
  3. Cananecat
    Cananecat 25 October 2017 15: 19
    +6
    Did the author take part in the planning and the assault itself? It's easy to look for errors after a few years ... it's harder to foresee in place in real time.
    Sometimes I don’t understand why in such cases, some authors expect super results in the form of people, forgetting that they are the same people, but more competent and more prepared to perform certain tasks.
    1. WUA 518
      WUA 518 25 October 2017 15: 48
      +4
      Quote: Canecat
      Sometimes I don’t understand why, in such cases, some authors expect super-results from people in the form of

      The order of the commander (chief) must be carried out implicitly, accurately and on time. The serviceman, having received the order, answers: “Yes” - and then carries it out.
      1. Cananecat
        Cananecat 25 October 2017 23: 53
        +1
        I doubt that the author of the article knows more about the service than he sees on TV.
  4. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 25 October 2017 15: 34
    +3
    But imagine: an airplane with several hundred passengers flies towards New York or Washington, and the American intelligence agencies receive information that a terrorist attack is being prepared with its help. The plane would be shot down. There is a concept of extreme necessity ...
    Perhaps this is what happened with one of the planes seized by terrorists in the United States on 11 of September 2001 of the year ... In any case, such a version was voiced by journalists then ...
  5. afrikanez
    afrikanez 25 October 2017 15: 36
    18
    For the Nord-Ost tragedy, you need to say “thank you” to Yeltsin
    So they already “told” him what kind of palace they had rebuilt in Yekaterinburg, and they appointed him a “center”. Burn him with a blue flame!
    1. Bastinda
      Bastinda 25 October 2017 16: 19
      16
      For the Nord-Ost tragedy, you need to say “thank you” to Yeltsin
      ? For 2 years, Putin was president! And soaked terrorists in the toilet (2 years)! Not a supporter of Yeltsin, but do not shift responsibility.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 25 October 2017 19: 44
        +6
        ? For 2 years, Putin was president! And soaked terrorists in the toilet (2 years)! Not a supporter of Yeltsin, but do not shift responsibility.
        I fully support. Since when has the long-standing leader shifted his blunders to the previous one? No, I get it. Elections. And what conscience is completely gone?
        1. AID.S
          AID.S 26 October 2017 14: 41
          0
          Quote: Gardamir
          I fully support. Since when has the long-standing leader shifted his blunders to the previous one? No, I get it. Elections. And what conscience is completely gone?

          And where did you get the idea that “a long-standing leader is shifting his blunders to the previous one”? What, the author of the article is Putin? I am not a fan of Putin, but when did he ever make excuses and “translate arrows”?
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 26 October 2017 14: 43
            0
            "translated arrows"?
            Well, how do you remember Lenin in 1991, Russia collapsed?
            1. AID.S
              AID.S 26 October 2017 16: 03
              0
              Quote: Gardamir
              Well, how do you remember Lenin in 1991, Russia collapsed?

              ??????? I honestly don’t remember that. I remember about “wetting”, “drowned”, “Portugal’s GDP”, “galley”, “no head”, I don’t remember about Lenin in the 91st, and where is Putin’s blunder here ..
  6. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 25 October 2017 15: 44
    12
    Why don’t we remember that despite the demands, requests, the journalists broadcast live, and the terrorists weren’t fools, they all saw and watched .... regarding gas ... there really was no other way, but when they loaded people into simple buses with their heads thrown back .. when they were transported to the wrong hospitals, alas, this is not a question for the special services .. and Mr. Luzhkov would be better to stay silent on this subject, honestly
  7. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 25 October 2017 15: 44
    +3
    There is no and never will be justification for terrorism. Whatever goals and ideas he was not justified.
  8. Overlock
    Overlock 25 October 2017 17: 09
    +7
    For the tragedy of the Nord-Ost, you need to ask the leaders and security officials. There would have been much fewer victims if doctors had been admitted to the victims in a timely manner, provided the victims with adequate medical evacuation, and the resuscitators were told the name of the antidote drug. Until now, before the eyes of the picture, we open the doors and corpses with traces of asphyxia from the vomit are already falling out of the cabin. Then the authorities forbade to indicate the true cause of death in death certificates. However, commanders at awards, positions and are taught how to live. They no longer remember the dead - not relevant
  9. Overlock
    Overlock 25 October 2017 18: 02
    +6
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    this is not a question for the special services .. and Mr. Luzhkov

    I want to disappoint you! The chief resuscitator of Moscow at that moment turned to the leadership of the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs with a request to ensure medical evacuation of the victims and to voice an antidote. The professor was sent in the ass with a motivation for super-secret requirements. I heard firsthand. Luzhkov has nothing to do with it.
  10. Overlock
    Overlock 25 October 2017 19: 01
    +6
    Quote: Canecat
    some authors expect super results from people,

    Superresult is saved lives. And if the super result is expressed in a super-large number of victims, then this is also a super result, but with a “-” sign. The simple question is why people were saved from terrorists if they were all prepared for death after liberation, already without terrorists?
  11. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 25 October 2017 19: 06
    13
    "The abhorrent attitude of the authorities towards their own population" is a brief and very accurate description of reality. It was and it is now.
    1. Ivan Tartugai
      Ivan Tartugai 26 October 2017 07: 10
      +3
      Quote: olimpiada15
      It was and it is now.

      The disgusting attitude of those in power towards the population was from 1956 to 1971, and further to the present it has gone and is already boorish attitude of those in power towards the country's population.
  12. Eurodav
    Eurodav 25 October 2017 19: 22
    0
    Quote: Overlock
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    this is not a question for the special services .. and Mr. Luzhkov

    I want to disappoint you! The chief resuscitator of Moscow at that moment turned to the leadership of the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs with a request to ensure medical evacuation of the victims and to voice an antidote. The professor was sent in the ass with a motivation for super-secret requirements. I heard firsthand. Luzhkov has nothing to do with it.

    Surname of "first-hand"? Who sent the professor? Either write or don't dream! I heard this bullshit from correspondents, I don’t remember what kind of media, something like Ear or Rain, of the same kind ... "First mouth" is not from there?
    1. Overlock
      Overlock 25 October 2017 21: 07
      +8
      Does Bunatyan surname tell you something? And one of the "heroes" is now the governor. And I can’t fantasize, because I saw the death of these people, unlike you. You looked at everything in the box, but I rolled wheelchairs with bodies
  13. Eurodav
    Eurodav 25 October 2017 19: 24
    +1
    Quote: olimpiada15
    "The abhorrent attitude of the authorities towards their own population" is a brief and very accurate description of reality. It was and it is now.

    Wow, what a loud statement! And what to do? Do you have a plan? Will you give me parabellum? Also from the Plum Putin Witnesses Sect?
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 25 October 2017 19: 47
      +4
      Will you give me parabellum?
      shoot yourself. Putin has been in power for two years, but as always, he is not guilty.
      1. Overlock
        Overlock 25 October 2017 21: 08
        +4
        so it’s like the Ukrainians- "The Fellows are to blame for everything"
    2. Sverdlov
      Sverdlov 26 October 2017 02: 33
      +1
      I have a plan!
      Specific. To fight and defend their honor and the honor of their homeland of Russia from corrupt officials.
      I affirm, The largest organized criminal community in Russia -
      This is a Russian court.
      Details here: https://m.vk.com/wall453567502_2
  14. Yak28
    Yak28 25 October 2017 19: 51
    +7
    When Yeltsin came to power, a large part of the army, the police, special services, which incidentally swore allegiance to the USSR, took over. Where were the military commanders and the KGB when Yeltsin and his gang destroyed and robbed the country? And how shamefully the military operation in Chechnya took place. bandits in the military urals bypassing a bunch of posts arrived in the center of Moscow? Isn’t Yeltsin guilty, but people from law enforcement agencies with whose tacit consent Yeltsin scoffed at the country
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 25 October 2017 20: 28
    +2
    [/ quote] Today, from a height of ten years past, [quote]
    An old article by an author or a typo? The tragedy was 15 years ago, in 2002 year.
  17. Tests
    Tests 25 October 2017 20: 34
    +9
    What is the right of the respected Alexander Gurov to all 1000 and 1%, so this is the defeat in the 90s of the special services. I would add to this the rout of law enforcement agencies. Do not remember, dear forum users, such a thing as groups of advisers in Chechnya in the summer of 1996? From Severodvinsk, a "real colonel" went there, a political officer, to learn how to deal with juvenile delinquency. Almost all his life he worked in the passport office, then in the political office, the benefit of education is pedagogical. The senior police officer of the Russian Federation did not take a single pickpocket, a lodger, a hijacker of motorcycles and cars for a half dozen years of his heroic service before a business trip to Chechnya. But - an adviser ...
    . During the August assault on Grozny, having thrown documents, ammunition, special equipment, and most importantly the wounded, he, along with the same advisers, "decided to break through." They covered cars with armor and broke through. And the fighters of the Arkhangelsk SOBR, along with other officers of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB, fought for several more days and left the operational headquarters only after receiving an order. He received, together with other advisers, a state award - the medal "For Merit to the Fatherland" of the 2nd degree, a real political officer. He published about his exploits in the city newspaper "Northern Worker" - in principle, he wrote a confession, then he published a book. Now, on the Council of Veterans of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the Arkhangelsk Region, the brains of young people are powdering ... And back in the 90s, those who were afraid of going to the Caucasus as a conscript soldier came to law enforcement agencies. After the pedagogical institute, they all went to law school, for the second higher. Now, the "experts" are neither police officers, nor special vehicles, nor special tactics of the internal affairs bodies and internal troops sitting in the police, the investigative committee, and the prosecutor’s office with big stars. They were drawn to those who in absentia received a law degree at Pomeranian State University, at MIU, at the Modern Humanitarian Academy.
    Dear Canecat, I do not agree with you on everything: "some authors expect super-results from people in the form, forgetting that they are the same people, but more competent and more prepared to perform certain tasks." In Severodvinsk, a bear (or several) last week tore several graves at the Mironova Gora cemetery. Media reports of two gnawed corpses. The cemetery is closed to the public. The funeral is guarded by police armed with machine guns. At night, the hunter and hunters sit in ambush. City authorities cannot identify one or more bears in the cemetery. I have a stupid question: have criminal experts from the police and the Investigative Committee forgotten how to inspect the scene, record and remove traces, make gypsum prints, measure, sketch, photograph or shoot on video? In Soviet times, ordinary militiamen taught to sketch a track of tracks in initial training courses at the Training Center of the Department of Internal Affairs, and in rural areas, district forensic suitcases were received and skillfully worked with him. Sad ...
    1. Sverdlov
      Sverdlov 26 October 2017 02: 44
      +2
      These humanities lawyers just got it! Creatures without conscience, honor and moral principles! Natural selection, however .... Others in the system simply cannot be held.
      And, yes, "not a man chooses a profession. A person’s profession."
      This is a quote from me, if that ...
  18. A.
    A. 25 October 2017 20: 42
    0
    Quote: The same Lech
    Once again I looked at a photo of that event ... it's hard to watch ... I also recalled BESLAN ... a pile of burnt children's bodies ... in general, our people paid a bloody price for all the miscalculations of power ...
    I hope this does not happen again.

    These are not miscalculations of power, labeled and Judas EBN did not think about the people, they thought about themselves loved ones, they were passionate about themselves.
  19. groks
    groks 25 October 2017 20: 43
    +2
    In general, he needs to say thank you for a lot. It’s a pity that he didn’t hear those thanks either.
  20. Yak28
    Yak28 25 October 2017 20: 45
    +3
    Quote: Tests
    What is the right of the respected Alexander Gurov to all 1000 and 1%, so this is the defeat in the 90s of the special services. I would add to this the rout of law enforcement agencies.

    So the special services, law enforcement agencies, the army were created to protect the state from internal and external threats, and they sold and betrayed the USSR and what they did to Yeltsin with the army and law enforcement agencies
    1. goblin xnumx
      goblin xnumx 25 October 2017 22: 45
      +1
      and where are these traitors now? how were they punished?
  21. Nemesis
    Nemesis 25 October 2017 21: 35
    +5
    Yeltsin’s guilt does not cancel the guilt of his entourage, and first of all not for the Nord-Ost itself, but for the fact that all these enemies of the Russian people more than once released from the encirclement of the Dudaev militants ... probably on commands from Washington and not for free ... All the more disgusting today look at the monument to EBN in the Russian Federation and those who put it and protect it today from the people of Russia ...
  22. Popovich
    Popovich 25 October 2017 21: 57
    +2
    Yeltsin - still one, diarrhea, and even more zhurnalyugi - we are conducting a live report ... look, three cars with special forces arrived .. and here are two cars with military ... there snipers ran to the crash to the left of the building .... and so on give them all the sensation ....
  23. Overlock
    Overlock 25 October 2017 23: 14
    +1
    Quote: Gardamir
    And what conscience is completely gone?

    and was she?
  24. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 26 October 2017 07: 45
    +2
    Quote from the article:[i] [/ i]
    services that were supposed to provide intelligence about an impending terrorist operation

    The attack on Dubrovka is one of the inter-group dismantling operations on the upper floors of the Russian authorities, using Chechen terrorists. Perhaps with the participation of foreign intelligence services, to crush the then new president. And the power squabbles are held with the obligatory participation of the country's special services. Therefore, most likely in the intelligence mode, information was received and provided to the powerful men.
    Therefore, sleeping terrorists, euthanized by gas, were bravely killed, destroyed, all to one, so that ends in water and deeper.
  25. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 26 October 2017 14: 25
    +1
    the doctors did what they could do in the proposed circumstances (and they were unimportant: the absence of antidotes to the gas, and it’s not clear which

    Distributing an antidote before using gas would be the verdict of the operation. At a time when the number of traitors informing terrorists of every movement of the siloviki was even counted in dozens, and these traitors were infiltrated by almost all levels of all power pyramids ... That would be the end of everything. The same goes for the briefing for doctors.
    Could have worked something like a supply of antidote to each ambulance and operational briefing at the beginning of the assault. But who could do this? This should be some kind of special unit, which no one is thinking about now, and even then ...
    1. Ivan Tartugai
      Ivan Tartugai 26 October 2017 15: 55
      0
      Quote: Mikhail3
      now nobody doesn't thinkand then ...

      Generals of special services and operation leaders should have thought about this. Since they decided to use a lulling poison gas against terrorists, it was really hard for the generals to guess that there will certainly be HUNDREDS poisoned and put to sleep among the hostages and it is quite possible that they will be poisoned among special forces soldiers. Really, all of our special services generals who made and agreed on the use of a sleeping poison gas instead of sawdust brains have nothing to think about, or maybe it's just a boorish general attitude towards subordinates and hostages, civilians.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 26 October 2017 17: 41
        0
        Who has sawdust where ... Well, General Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov thought. Suddenly. Previously, no one has ever repelled mass terrorist attacks of this level, at least successfully. So what? Who exactly will carry out such an order?
        Where can I get at least a hundred people who will quickly pick up an antidote somewhere (did you try sometime to get a secret thing? I recommend it. It’s pumped right up to three levels, no less), they will give it a lift where it is needed, and then doctors will be brought in within five to six minutes ( with whom you need to talk in their language about such things) up to date?
        Where there are such a hundred loafers of the highest qualification and the highest tolerances that can be used a couple of words? And if there aren’t any of these, fully prepared, then it takes a week to organize such a thing, no less. The bandits will wait, right?
        Everyone imagines himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the side ...
        1. Ivan Tartugai
          Ivan Tartugai 26 October 2017 18: 48
          0
          .
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Where can I get at least a hundred people who will quickly pick up an antidote somewhere (did you try sometime to get a secret thing? I recommend it. It’s pumped right up to three levels, no less), they will give it a lift where it is needed, and then doctors will be brought in within five to six minutes ( with whom you need to talk in their language about such things) up to date?

          You are looking for reasons to make excuses for not fulfilling a task, and not ways to solve and complete it.
          With such an approach as you have and for a year you can’t take at least a hundred people anywhere, don’t get top-secret gizmos, don’t pump, don’t fail, do not introduce doctors.
          With this approach, it’s not that you don’t get a top-notch gizmo, but you don’t get a completely secret gadget, for example, one box (50 kg) of nails, I recommend that you also need to collect at least five signatures there, pump it in different rooms, and on different floors, Yes, in different buildings, and even a pass to the territory to get, and a storekeeper with a loader to find and all to speak their language.
  26. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 26 October 2017 14: 29
    0
    Quote from the article:
    Some say: they say that the terrorists did not blow up the building when the gas started? But gas is not a French perfume, its concentration was calculated so that put the terrorists to sleep before they realize that something is wrong[/ b] [b].

    The footage of the shooting of the TV performed immediately after the assault showed that the terrorists still realized that they were poisoning them with gas and they tried to protect themselves from it with improvised means, for example, one of the terrorists was shown, who somewhere found and put on a dust mask. Those. the terrorists and the terrorists had enough time to set off their explosive devices, one click of a button and the end of it all. However, no explosive devices were fired., and there were about two dozen.
    From here we can conclude:
    or all these explosive devices were just dummies;
    or all these terrorists were not suicide bombers at all and did not intend to die with the hostages, but simply bluffed.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 26 October 2017 17: 48
      0
      From here, we can first conclude that people are not characters in the Hollywood film. Strange, huh? It’s hard for people to decide to take and die like this. Even to fanatics. Even under hypnosis. Anyway, there is still a moment of bewilderment, weakness, misunderstanding, fear ... at this moment you can firmly count.
      They had a peak of readiness, and not just one, during which an explosion would follow instantly. But at these moments, the pros of our specialty conducted relaxing (primarily relaxing enemy brains and souls) negotiations, exchanges, movements ... And they hit at that moment that was the best. They achieved a percentage of losses, which almost no one in the world actually achieved under similar conditions. Unbelievably clean everything was done ...
      So rinse our soldiers with might and main. And enviable, and ashamed, and brain fog very hotstsa.
      1. Ivan Tartugai
        Ivan Tartugai 26 October 2017 19: 07
        0
        Quote: Mikhail3
        nevertheless, there is a moment of bewilderment, weakness, misunderstanding, fear ... at this moment one can firmly count.

        Anyone can have a moment of confusion, weakness, misunderstanding, fear, cowardice. But in an organized, friendly manner, all terrorists have a moment of bewilderment, weakness, misunderstanding, fear, cowardice. Unless in a Hollywood movie. Strange, huh?
        It’s hard for people to decide to take it and die like this, but they decide and die, and they take dozens of lives with them. You see it yourself or just see Hollywood melodramas.
        Quote: Mikhail3
        So rinse our soldiers with might and main.

        Warriors carry out a specific order and no one rinses them anywhere, even in the yellow press.
        But the secret service generals did not cope with their duties at Dubrovka.
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 27 October 2017 18: 09
          0
          Dear you are my friend
          What do you praise me for boots ...

          Try to organize in one person at least a trip of ten people, at least for barbecue. And then re-read your comments. If you wrote them honestly, it would be a shame to be very ...
          1. Ivan Tartugai
            Ivan Tartugai 28 October 2017 21: 01
            0
            Quote: Mikhail3
            Try to organize in one person at least a trip of ten people, at least for barbecue.

            Dear you are comrade.
            Well, even if it’s impossible to arrange at least ten people’s departure for a barbecue, then where is it before the special operation. Don't even try. Such leaders, generals of special services, boots and clothing need to sit at home.
    2. domokl
      domokl 29 October 2017 05: 45
      0
      Quote: Ivan Tartugay
      - all these explosive devices were just dummies;
      -or all these terrorists were not suicide bombers at all and were not going to die along with the hostages, but simply bluffed.

      At least you are not friends with your head. And as a maximum provocateur. The terrorists prepared the explosion perfectly. And not dummies. Do you think their goal was an explosion of some mined spectators?
      No, roof supports were mined there. Can you imagine the auditorium? And what would happen if people fell down on the roof? And further. You did not notice how well the special forces worked about the capture of the hall? Almost all mined terrorists shot a sniper. With the move removed. They just did not have time to make their plans.
      How time changes perception. Just amazed sometimes. Time and those who begin to look for witnesses of events ... I would personally suffocate such truth lovers. And the peasants participating in the operation have to bow for courage and professionalism ...
  27. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 26 October 2017 16: 06
    0
    ... no matter how we criticize Kadyrov ... In Chechnya, the situation has returned to normal.
    As Dorenko said on Radio Moscow Says, the average bill in Chechnya after going to the store is 3 rubles, and in Russia - 000 rubles. It turns out that in Chechnya the situation is 400 times more normal.
  28. Ales
    Ales 26 October 2017 19: 11
    +2
    For this tragedy it should be said .... overseas partners. I wish they also got what our fellow citizens survived ...
  29. Captain45
    Captain45 26 October 2017 21: 23
    +1
    Martyniuk posted an article a decade ago, which was not authored, as indicated by the fact that the article said: led by the "destroyed" Movsar Baraev those. even the real author of the article is not in the subject because quotation marks the word destroyed. The author clearly confused or does not know Arbi Barayev at all, who, by the fall of 2002, had been destroyed by his nephew Movsar. And about “Nord-Ost” on the 30.09.17 Spetsnaz website there was a big essay by Pavel Evdokimov - “Nord-Ost” over Moscow. In an essay in an interview with the Alpha and Vympel fighters who took part directly in the assault and the release of the hostages. I recommend it, very informative. I read comments, it’s possible to appoint every third if not the second tomorrow. Specialists ...
  30. Standard
    Standard 27 October 2017 21: 10
    0
    They didn’t remember something about Gryzlov. How this imperious scum spread in front of the magazine and gave the plan for the assault.
    This is incomprehensible to the mind!
    And after Dubrovka he was made speaker of the State Duma.
    If you want to not understand, it will not work.
  31. APASUS
    APASUS 27 October 2017 22: 45
    0
    Honestly, it’s very difficult to choose the line between security and personal freedom, respect for the rights to personal information. A strange situation, first of all, with gas victims. Here Luzhka had to be hanged for Faberge, for his construction projects and helplessness of doctors, inconsistency between services and lack of medicines at the brigades.
    The authorities had to take full blame for the dead. Although the specialists worked very well
  32. SCHWERIN
    SCHWERIN 28 October 2017 15: 51
    +1
    Now everyone is felled on special forces and gas used. But this is not so. The use of gas was the only measure to prevent mass deaths. In a fire assault, the terra would use the charges placed on the combat platoon. Only gas helped make this impossible. Yes, people died, but most were saved.
    Special Forces officers carried people out of the hall and stacked them at the entrance. And this is after the military operation. People had to be put on their side, and not on their back, On their back, their tongues covered their airways and the person was suffocating. Gas relaxed the muscles. The person had to not only put on his side but also fix the position of the body. Inject an antidote. Did they have such an opportunity. Of course not. They were in a hurry to endure people as much as possible, they were afraid of an explosion.
    Who is to blame? I listened to one doctor, with big stars. He said he was surprised that they had not called in the medical doctors. We have mobile hospitals that we could deploy in a few minutes, with staff, an antidote, etc. Instead, a bet was made on ambulances and buses. But this is Moscow, with traffic jams. And the cars traveled to hospitals for a very long time and the staff did not have, unlike the military, the necessary funds to provide assistance.
    I think that some people died from SS problems long before the gas, especially the elderly.
    So whether Yeltsin is to blame is a big question.
    1. Ivan Tartugai
      Ivan Tartugai 28 October 2017 21: 28
      0
      Quote: SCHWERIN
      I think that some people died from SS problems long before the gas, especially the elderly

      After the hostage attack, no one said that some people died from SS problems long before the gas. Of course hostages' health after more than three days of nightmare, three days of stress, three days of actually starvation, lack of water, lack of movement, lack of sleep was bad, or rather very bad. And the gas had a stronger effect on the hostages than on the terrorists. Most likely they had a rest before the capture, prepared, and with food-water it was better, and in turn rested, slept.
    2. domokl
      domokl 29 October 2017 05: 35
      0
      Quote: SCHWERIN
      . We have mobile hospitals that we could deploy in a few minutes, with staff, antidote, etc.

      What's the point? There is a straight three minute drive to the hospital ... Another question is that the military medics did not call. Although it is just a question. The number of doctors, alas, does not determine the quality of treatment.
      1. SCHWERIN
        SCHWERIN 29 October 2017 20: 22
        0
        So these three minutes because of traffic jams turned into half an hour! The corpses were pulled out of the buses!
  33. Al Asad
    Al Asad 24 October 2020 11: 21
    0
    Found a scapegoat.