Military Review

Machine-tool construction in modern Russia

101
Machine-tool construction in modern Russia



Machine-tool and tool industry - engineering industries, creating for all industries metalworking and woodworking machines, automatic and semi-automatic lines, complex-automatic production for the manufacture of machinery, equipment and metal products and other structural materials, forging, casting and woodworking equipment. The machine tool industry is a mirror of the development of mechanical engineering, and the development of this industry in many ways can be judged on the development of the industrial potential of the country.

At present, there are about 100 enterprises in the machine tool industry of Russia. In 2011, it was noted that according to official data of relevant ministries, as part of the machine-tool industry of Russia 46 enterprises producing machine tools, 25 plants specializing in the manufacture of forging equipment, 29 manufacturers of cutting, measuring, fitting and assembly tools, as well as seven scientific research institutes and 45 design offices.

Among Russian enterprises of machine tool industry:

Mill

NPO "Machine Tool" (Sterlitamak)

Stankotech (Kolomna)

Ivanovo Heavy Machine Tool Plant

RSZ (Ryazan)

Grinding Machines (Moscow)

Astrakhan Machine-Tool Plant

Krasnodar Machine Tool Plant

Simbirsk Machine-Tool Plant (Ulyanovsk)

Stangidromash (Samara)

Sasta (Ryazan region)

Lipetsk Machine-Tool Enterprise

Stan Samara

Volzhsky Machine-Building Plant (Togliatti)

Middle Volga Machine Tool Plant (Samara)

Savyolovsky Machine Building Plant (Kimry)

VNIIinstrument (Moscow)

VSZ Technique (Vladimir)

VSZ - Salyut (Moscow)

Kirov-Stankomash (St. Petersburg)

St. Petersburg Precision Machine Tool Building Plant (St. Petersburg)

Ulyanovsk plant of heavy and unique machines

Stankomashstroy (Penza)

Tver Machine-Tool Plant

PKF "Stankoservice" (Ryazan)

Kovosvit


It is planned that regional machine tool building clusters will be created in St. Petersburg, Tatarstan, Rostov, Ulyanovsk and Sverdlovsk regions. The main areas of their activities will be engineering and system integration in the field of engineering technologies, the production of original Russian equipment, the design of modern production facilities, and the training of qualified personnel for the industry.

Holding "Stankoprom"

Holding "Stankoprom" was created in 2013 year under the auspices of the state corporation "Rostec" as a system integrator of the Russian machine-tool enterprises. It controls the import of equipment, combines foreign developments with the Russian assembly, develops Russian R & D and introduces them.

The holding was established on the basis of OJSC RT-Stankoinstrument and OJSC RT-Mashinostroenie, and is their successor. “Stankoprom” has the status of the head organization of Rostec State Corporation in the field of machine-tool construction and tool production. At 2014, the holding's consolidated assets were valued at 15 billion rubles. Planned investments are about 30 billion rubles, of which own financial resources are 5,5 billion rubles, and 11 billion rubles are private investments and bank loans in the ratio 50 to 50. The strategic task of the Stankoprom holding is the long-term provision of technological independence and competitiveness of the Russian engineering industry through the creation of competitive domestic engineering products. The holding aims to achieve, by 2020, the share of domestic machine tools in 70%, while the holding may become the only supplier of machines for defense enterprises.

2011 year

By 2011, Russia was ranked 21 among the countries of the world in terms of machine tool production.

2012 year

In 2012, the 3321 machine tool and 4270 woodworking machines were produced in Russia.

In January, 2012, one of the world leaders in the machine tool industry, the German company Gildemeister acquired a land plot in Ulyanovsk for the construction of a plant for the production of high-precision metalworking machines. October 23 the same year, construction of the plant began. It is planned that the plant will produce up to 1000 machines per year.

2013 year

In the 2013 year, 180 enterprises belonging to the Stankoinstrument association released products for 26,6 billion rubles.

In October, the government of the Rostov region signed a cooperation agreement with Vnesheconombank’s leadership, according to which this development institution becomes the main creditor of a project to create a machine-tool cluster in the region based on the Azov forge-pressing equipment factory DonPressMash. According to the Minister of Industry and Energy of the Rostov Region, Alexander Grebenshchikov, the total cost of the project is 2013 billion rubles. The anchor investor of the cluster is MTE Kovosvit MAS, a joint machine-tool enterprise established on a parity basis in July 2,3 by the Russian MTE group and the Czech Kovosvit MAS as, one of the leading European manufacturers of turning and milling machines, machining centers and technical solutions.

2014 year

In 2014, structural changes began in the range of products manufactured by Russian machine tool enterprises, which are characterized by an increase in the production of numerical control equipment (CNC) and machining centers, which increases the share of high technology products and positively affects the added value of the products.

2015 year

In 2015, according to the enterprises of the Stankoinstrument Association, the production of machine tools amounted to 1873 pcs. or 172,8% to the level of 2014 of the year. Separate enterprises of the Association showed more than 2's multiple growth compared with 2014 year (JSC Stankotekh, Kolomna - 273%, Research and Production Association “Machine-Tool Building, Sterlitamak - 243%).

In 2015, one of the significant events for the industry was the formation of a large private player in the machine tool industry - the company STAN, which mainly included the assets of the largest Russian enterprises, including the heavy machine tool industry: Ivanovo Heavy Machine Tool Plant LLC (Ivanovo) , Stankotech JSC / KZTS CJSC (Kolomna), Ryazan Stankozavod LLC (Ryazan), NPO “Stankostroenie” LLC (Sterlitamak), as well as Grinding Machines LLC ( Moscow).

11 November 2015, the vice-premier of Russia Arkady Dvorkovich, said: “Only yesterday we discussed in the government issues of machine-tool construction - an industry that for a long time remained outside the framework of an active industrial policy. In the last year, the policy has become focused, machine tool industry comes to the fore. Of course, the driver of demand for machine tool products today is the military-industrial complex, and a significant amount of resources that are spent on the implementation of the DIC program is being formed simply for our machine-tool factories, they have begun to use it: holding companies are already being created that unite our leading machine-tool enterprises. One example is the holding company STAN, which already unites four large enterprises. It produces high-quality products that are absolutely comparable with foreign counterparts, and it does it faster, and, moreover, is competitive in price. ”[66]

2016 year

In March, the 2016 of the year in Yekaterinburg opened a Russian-Japanese serial production of 120 CNC machines per year.

Prospects

In the Moscow region will create a Russian-Chinese enterprise for the production of high-precision metalworking machines. The total investment in 2016 — 2017 in the project for the production of high-precision machine tools and CNC machining centers exceeds 110 million euros. The company will start working in the Leninsky district of the Moscow region in 2017.

One of the projects planned for implementation under the special investment contract is the joint venture of the Ulyanovsk Machine-Tool Plant and the German-Japanese concern DMG MORI SEIKI; The project provides for the launch of a wide range of turning and milling machining centers with access to 2017 year at a design capacity of over 1000 machines per year. The project envisages the creation of an engineering center for training personnel, as well as the development of new models of metal-cutting equipment in Russia.

The project of MTE Kovosvit Mas LLC envisages the creation by 2018 of a modern high-tech production of metalworking machines of the turning and milling groups, as well as multifunctional metalworking centers of the company Kovosvit (Czech Republic). The area of ​​the plant will be 33 thousand m2.

The Kovrov Electromechanical Plant, together with the Japanese manufacturer TAKISAWA, is localizing the production of a new generation of turning and milling machining centers.

The volume of production of machines in Russia:

2012 year - about 3 billion rubles;

2013 year - about 3,5 billion rubles;

2014 year - about 4 billion rubles;

2015 year - about 7 billion rubles.

New productions launched from 2011 to 2017.

1. A new workshop of the FSUE “Instrument-making Plant” for the production of machine tools has opened in Trihgorny
At the site of the new plant in Trihgorny, several types of the most demanded milling, turning and other types of machine tools for mechanical engineering will be produced, which in their technological characteristics are not inferior to foreign analogues at a significantly lower price. The volume of investments: more than 1 billion rubles.

2. "Production complex" Akhtuba "opened a modernized workshop for the production of machine tools with numerical control
The grand opening of the renovated section of the machine-assembly production of machine tools with numerical program control was held at JSC “Production Complex“ Akhtuba ”.

3. In Kurgan opened a plant for the manufacture of oil field equipment and tools
1 August in Kurgan opened a plant for the manufacture of oil field equipment and tools. The construction of the plant was made possible thanks to the joint efforts of the American company Varel International (Varel International) and its Russian partner NewTech Services (New Tech Services) from Moscow.

In total, over 446 million rubles were invested in production. More than 60 jobs will be created in the enterprise.

4. A new workshop for the production of progressive cutting tools has been opened at Votkinsky Plant OJSC (Udmurtia). Production is import-substituting.

According to the head of the company, this shop is the first and so far the only one in Russia. The plant employs 525 CNC machines, of which more than 100 machining centers, including high-speed 52.
The new workshop will fully meet the needs of this equipment, significantly increase the cutting speed and increase productivity. The estimated output of the tool is 50 000 pieces per year.

5. In the Vladimir region, at the Kovrov Electromechanical Plant OJSC, an assembly production of machines of the Japanese company TAKISAWA was opened.
Takisawa gives Kovrov Electromechanical Plant the right to use technical information for assembling, selling, commissioning and servicing CNC lathes of the TS-4000 model in Russia and the CIS countries.
At the first stage, the volume of production can be up to 600 units per year, later - in cooperation with machine tool enterprises of the region - up to 1700 units.

6. A ceremony dedicated to the release of the first Russian machine tools of the German-Japanese concern DMG Mori Seiki took place in Ulyanovsk.
LLC “Ulyanovsk Machine-Tool Plant” launched the assembly of the first machine tools with numerical programmed control SIEMENS of the latest design series ECOLINE. While the assembly is carried out on leased premises. Until the end of 2014, the order of 100 machines will be assembled here.
There is a construction of a plant worth 3,2 billion rubles. When the enterprise reaches its full capacity, the number of manufactured machines will be 1000 pcs. in year. Creation of 200 jobs is planned.

7. In Tatarstan, on the territory of the SEZ "Alabuga" the opening of a new plant of the Russian company "Interskol" took place
The Interskol-Alabuga plant will provide up to 40% of import substitution in the power tool industry. The volume of investments in the first place of the plant amounted to 1,5 billion rubles. At the moment, the plant employs 200 people.
In 2015, it is planned to complete the construction of the second line of the plant, and by the end of 2017, the third line will be commissioned. In addition to electric tools, there will be produced tools for small-scale mechanization of production, welding machines, compressors, and much more. Total planned creation of 2000 jobs.

8.In Ulyanovsk, a new plant for the production of machine tools was opened in the Zavolzhye industrial park.
Investments of the German-Japanese concern DMG MORI amounted to 3 billion rubles. By 2018, 250 jobs will be created in the enterprise. It is planned that the localization of production will be 50%.
The plant will produce three types of machines of the ecoline series: machines for turning, milling and milling vertical machining centers. production capacity of the plant -1 200 machines with the possibility of increasing production to 1500 - 2000 machines per year.

9. Small-scale production of turning processing centers of Joint-Venture Enterprise JSC Perm Plant of Metal-Working Centers (Perm)
27 in November in the microdistrict Novye Lyady the presentation of the assembly area of ​​the small-scale production of turning series of metalworking equipment of Joint Venture Company Perm Plant of Metalworking Centers (STP PZMC JSC) took place.
The presentation was attended by representatives of 29 engineering enterprises of Russia: representatives of top management and technical specialists of Roskosmos enterprises, United Engine Corporation, Perm engineering complex, Leningrad Mechanical Plant named after K.Libknecht, Voronezh Mechanical Plant JSC, Progress Rocket and Space Center JSC "(Samara), Votkinsk Plant OJSC, Turbina OJSC (Chelyabinsk).
The guests visited the assembly shop of GTES PJSC "Proton-PM", where small-scale production of Proton Т500 and Proton Т630 machines is located, and also saw the process of processing a heat-resistant alloy part. The capacity of this production site allows you to produce up to 50 machines per year.

10. Assembly production of lathes Genos L of the Ural machine-building corporation "Pumori" (Ekaterinburg)
The Ural machine-building corporation Pumori solemnly opened serial production of metal-cutting machining centers Okuma-Pumori (Russia-Japan) in Yekaterinburg on the basis of Pumori-Engineering Invest.
The plan for 2016 is 40 machines, followed by an annual increase to 120 by 2020. Now localization is more than 30%, with 2018 it should exceed 70%. Full cooperation is hampered by economic sanctions.

11. Plant for the production of metal-cutting tools of the German company Guhring (Nizhny Novgorod)
The plant of Güring, one of the leaders in the production of metal-cutting tools, opened on July 21 in Nizhny Novgorod. The company was built from scratch and has no analogues in Russia. Investment in the project amounted to 6 million euros. In the future, the plant will create more than a hundred more jobs.
Investment in the project amounted to 6 million euros.
The company, which has no analogues in Russia as yet, is intended for the release of a special-purpose tool that was previously imported from Germany. Also included are small standard rulers, axial tools with diameters from 2,5 to 32 mm - drills, mills and much more.
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  1. cedar
    cedar 19 October 2017 05: 26
    +5
    Strange, BUT beyond the Urals, not a single machine-tool enterprise is signified, and in plans for the future I did not notice them. What is it for?
    1. andr327
      andr327 19 October 2017 05: 54
      24
      Huge investments, a lot of factories, job creation (in small quantities) and the production of ridiculous amounts of equipment. All production is spread over the territory. An urgently needed production, which is very difficult for the majority to judge (it’s not your job to produce tanks) under the control of foreign investors, will simply be displayed at the time of lifting the sanctions. And then again purchases abroad. And for most of all reports, for some reason, everything is in rubles and dollars, but I would like in pieces, liters, tons. The development of this industry, in principle, is not possible without state-wide planning.
      And without a machine, not a fork. not a tank. you will not do it.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 19 October 2017 06: 14
        11
        I agree with you. It’s easy to destroy everything. Then try to collect it .. Especially pleased that there is already a plant named after Sedin that does not exist today. Where did they get it to release something?
        Quote: andr327
        Huge investments, a lot of factories, job creation (in small quantities) and the production of ridiculous amounts of equipment. All production is spread over the territory. An urgently needed production, which is very difficult for the majority to judge (it’s not your job to produce tanks) under the control of foreign investors, will simply be displayed at the time of lifting the sanctions. And then again purchases abroad. And for most of all reports, for some reason, everything is in rubles and dollars, but I would like in pieces, liters, tons. The development of this industry, in principle, is not possible without state-wide planning.
        And without a machine, not a fork. not a tank. you will not do it.
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 19 October 2017 06: 30
          11
          the list of machine tool builders is not small, but we still buy Chinese CNC ...
          1. Fox
            Fox 19 October 2017 07: 40
            12
            Quote: Dead Day
            the list of machine tool builders is not small, but we still buy Chinese CNCs ..

            so the KETAISERS MAKE machines, but with us the list is only growing.
            1. Grandfather
              Grandfather 19 October 2017 07: 41
              +3
              Quote: Fox
              Quote: Dead Day
              the list of machine tool builders is not small, but we still buy Chinese CNCs ..

              so the KETAISERS MAKE machines, but with us the list is only growing.

              good
            2. vlad_vlad
              vlad_vlad 19 October 2017 15: 45
              11
              Quote: Fox
              Quote: Dead Day
              the list of machine tool builders is not small, but we still buy Chinese CNCs ..

              so the KETAISERS MAKE machines, but with us the list is only growing.


              maybe the problem is that the machines and the myrrh-flowing bust of Nicholas 2 are badly combined in one society?
            3. SERGUS
              SERGUS 20 October 2017 11: 54
              +5
              Quote: Fox
              so the KETAISERS MAKE machines, but with us the list is only growing.

              There a new plant opened, a new plant itself opened, but in fact only the signs change, but nothing new!
          2. antivirus
            antivirus 19 October 2017 09: 09
            10
            the basis of machine tool industry - foundries and forges - for the main hull and beds, they are brought from China + CNC import.
            REMAINING ACCOUNT REMAINING AND GAMING PLATES.
            moreover, to collect what "partners" allowed
            The development cycle of our machine tool industry is starting anew. as in 30 years, with a terrible ITT.
            1. SERGUS
              SERGUS 20 October 2017 12: 08
              +5
              Quote: antivirus
              The development cycle of our machine tool industry is starting anew.

              The question is, are we starting? Or, as with the auto industry, a handful of foreign automakers set up their plants and then reported to the GDP documentary: here, he developed the domestic auto industry, which no one succeeded in.
          3. Dedall
            Dedall 20 October 2017 20: 48
            +4
            Somehow I walked on the Internet on the links to the sale of machine tools and saw that only we have Chinese ones that are being sold. The cheapest one at a price of 12 million rubles. And I have left from the old days several reference books "USSR in numbers", where it is written that the annual output of only metal-cutting machines was 12 thousand pieces. And that was not enough. I remember, after all, how the deceased uncle rushed through the cities and villages of the country in search of decommissioned machines for taking spare parts from them. And the applications submitted by him to the State Planning Commission, in my memory, were not satisfied for about 20 years. So the release numbers described in the article are a drop in the bucket.
            It’s also bad that only joint ventures are being built. This means that the moment will come and the situation will come, as with the Simmens and its turbines. In this regard, I like the way they did with Daewoo in Uzbekistan at the time, insisting on the production of all components in the country itself. And now the concern’s auto-separation has long ceased to exist, and Uzbekistan continues to produce cars.
          4. mervino2007
            mervino2007 23 October 2017 19: 58
            0
            The Ryazan Machine Tool Plant listed in the list does not exist in reality. All machines are scrapped.
        2. Pivot
          Pivot 19 October 2017 08: 51
          +7
          Sedin exists, machine-tool construction is carried out in one workshop; this joint venture Sedin Schiss produces up to 10 CNC turnarucking machines a year, moreover, our developed machines, Siemens CNCs and drives are imported, if we look at the industry we are lagging behind in drives, for the rest we are high level.
          1. vadsonen
            vadsonen 19 October 2017 12: 37
            +2
            Siemens CNC and drive are imported, ... for the rest we are at a high level.

            For the rest - what’s it for? Drives and CNC - this is 99% percent of the machine.
            1. dauria
              dauria 19 October 2017 13: 20
              10
              For the rest - what’s it for? Drives and CNC - this is 99% percent of the machine.


              laughing Casting a cast-iron bed, milling and grinding with almost diamond pastes to the required precision - is this your trinket? Firms taking the old "trash", changing engines and electronics, painting and selling - a dime a dozen. But no one is able to return accuracy to a worn frame. By the way, instead of the Gorky factory of milling machines (the brand was known throughout the Union), there are now warehouses, warehouses and offices.
              1. SERGUS
                SERGUS 20 October 2017 12: 14
                0
                Quote: dauria
                By the way, instead of the Gorky factory of milling machines (the brand was known throughout the Union), there are now warehouses, warehouses and offices.

                Offices and warehouses are our everything good . Probably if you make statistics how many new offices and warehouses are opened in Russia every year, then here we will definitely be ahead of the rest laughing
            2. Pivot
              Pivot 20 October 2017 23: 02
              0
              No, when they talk about drives, they mean feed drives.
        3. 210ox
          210ox 19 October 2017 16: 10
          +6
          And also the casting of cast-iron beds and the screwdriver hinge on them of the rest of the paraphernalia up to the fasteners! Imported! I'm not talking about the electric drive and the automatic control system ... Machine tool industry? Small machine tool assembly!
          Quote: 210ox
          I agree with you. It’s easy to destroy everything. Then try to collect it .. Especially pleased that there is already a plant named after Sedin that does not exist today. Where did they get it to release something?
          Quote: andr327
          Huge investments, a lot of factories, job creation (in small quantities) and the production of ridiculous amounts of equipment. All production is spread over the territory. An urgently needed production, which is very difficult for the majority to judge (it’s not your job to produce tanks) under the control of foreign investors, will simply be displayed at the time of lifting the sanctions. And then again purchases abroad. And for most of all reports, for some reason, everything is in rubles and dollars, but I would like in pieces, liters, tons. The development of this industry, in principle, is not possible without state-wide planning.
          And without a machine, not a fork. not a tank. you will not do it.
        4. weksha50
          weksha50 19 October 2017 19: 16
          +6
          Quote: 210ox
          It is especially pleasing that there is already a plant named after Sedin that does not exist today.


          Voooot ..... I already said in my comment below that THIS information is similar to a victorious, but rash report for the report before the "electorate" ... "WE - plowed" ... laughing This is me - about the government ...
      2. AA17
        AA17 19 October 2017 11: 57
        12
        Dear, andr327. This article does not give an idea of ​​the state of affairs in the industry. The article "What about the machine tool program in Russia?" from April 18, 2017 (Author: Volodin Alexey) carries more information about the current situation in machine tools. I would like to draw attention to the approach of our government -
        A. to the development of INDUSTRY: "... Additional state support for key industries of the country in 2017 will amount to 107,5 billion rubles, including more than 60 billion rubles will be allocated to the auto industry, said Russian Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov during a meeting with President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin ...)
        B. to the "development" of the BANKING SECTOR: "... 3,2 trillion rubles has been spent by the state on saving banks since 2014. Such an estimate was given by the international rating agency Fitch. The money came in the form of direct capital injections, were given to bankers for the rehabilitation of others troubled banks ... That the money poured into the banking system tends to dissolve without a trace, Tatyana Golikova, head of the Accounts Chamber, said at a State Duma meeting last December that she said only half of the 32 banks that received assistance from the state recorded fact a substantial increase in capital, every second bank lost all the allocated money, and only 4% spent it on declared goals - lending to priority projects in the economy, although the money allocated to bankers was specifically for lending to organizations of priority sectors of the economy and there is an approved list of such priority sectors, and an obligation has been established to increase the corresponding loan portfolio by at least 1% per month, but 84,2% of the money received from the state was invested by banks to replenish working capital and only 4,3% to lend to educational projects, calculated T. Golikova. ... "Draw your own conclusions.
        P.S. 2016 "..." I do not think our government is weak. I myself worked in the government and I know what it is, "Vladimir Putin emphasized. According to him, this is a complicated, but interesting business ..." There are a lot of problems. The government and the Central Bank work very professionally, "the president estimated ..."
        1. Tilkus75
          Tilkus75 19 October 2017 13: 05
          +2
          Volga Engineering Plant (Tolyatti) destroyed!
          http://alexandr-palkin.livejournal.com/4611514.ht
          ml
        2. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 20 October 2017 13: 16
          +1
          Quote: AA17
          A. to the development of INDUSTRY: "... Additional state support for key industries of the country in 2017 will amount to 107,5 billion rubles to the" development of the BANKING SECTOR: "... 3,2 trillion rubles. has spent the state saving banks since 2014

          What a monstrous imbalance. Banks will definitely survive!
  2. svp67
    svp67 19 October 2017 08: 00
    +6
    It is good that the patient is more likely alive than dead. But now we need more than just turning, drilling and milling machines, we need whole combines, capable of delivering the finished part in one go, we need 3-D printers and all this is our own. All this does not require much, since productivity, and most importantly the quality of the products manufactured, this equipment gives the highest.
  3. groks
    groks 19 October 2017 08: 36
    16
    Frozen with their lists. Most are a screwdriver. Then we stop supplying components and goodbye production?
    And then - and who will buy it? What kind of shisha?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 19 October 2017 09: 08
      +1
      In general, localization is already here, since it is already an expensive and long pleasure to transport components from abroad.
      1. groks
        groks 19 October 2017 11: 15
        +3
        But they continue to carry. Paradox?
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 19 October 2017 09: 19
      +1
      I agree!!! the machine tool industry is the heart of mechanical engineering, but without other industries, it is an appendage of world leaders.
      on a catch, plug a hole in a contract for Brazil or Nigeria.
      antivirus 3 Today, 09:09
      the basis of machine tool industry - foundries and forges - for the main hull and beds, they are brought from China + CNC import.
      REMAINING ACCOUNT REMAINING AND GAMING PLATES.
      moreover, to collect what "partners" allowed
      The development cycle of our machine tool industry is starting anew. as in 30 years, with a terrible ITT.
  4. kapitan281271
    kapitan281271 19 October 2017 08: 37
    +4
    Quote: svp67
    It is good that the patient is more likely alive than dead. But now we need more than just turning, drilling and milling machines, we need whole combines, capable of delivering the finished part in one go, we need 3-D printers and all this is our own. All this does not require much, since productivity, and most importantly the quality of the products manufactured, this equipment gives the highest.

    And who remembers, in my opinion, in the early 2000s the last scientific research institute of "Machine Tool Building" where I didn’t read was closed as unnecessary?
  5. FID
    FID 19 October 2017 08: 50
    18
    So what? Where are the machines? 250 jobs in the whole country? We are taken for idiots ....
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 19 October 2017 09: 06
      +2
      "Where are the machines?" Where they are needed, and those who have something to do on them.
      1. FID
        FID 19 October 2017 09: 18
        +8
        Quote: Vadim237
        "Where are the machines?" Where they are needed, and those who have something to do on them.

        Well, yes .... And you are one of those who can "do" them ....
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 19 October 2017 18: 47
          0
          And they work for me - 24 processing cents DMG.
          1. SERGUS
            SERGUS 20 October 2017 12: 31
            0
            Quote: Vadim237
            And they work for me - 24 processing cents DMG.

            DMG is Japan !?
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 21 October 2017 19: 35
              0
              In connection with the expansion of production I’ll acquire another 30 DMG machines that are awesome and of high quality, there were no problems for seven years of work on them.
              1. SERGUS
                SERGUS 24 October 2017 10: 55
                0
                DMG is Japan !?

                Quote: Vadim237
                In connection with the expansion of production I will purchase another 30 DMG machines awesome

                That's all domestic machine tool building!
      2. Alikos
        Alikos 19 October 2017 12: 28
        +2
        Quote: Vadim237
        "Where are the machines?" Where they are needed, and those who have something to do on them.

        I see, you have it! The bourgeois grabbed everything
      3. AA17
        AA17 19 October 2017 15: 04
        +6
        Dear Vadim, 237. You said very beautifully: "... where they are needed and those who have something to do on them." Apparently Russia (machine tools) are not needed.
        "... Russian investments in the US government debt (US Treasuries) in August grew by another $ 2,3 billion. This is evidenced by the data of the US Treasury. As a result, the volume of Russian investments in US treasury bonds reached $ 105,4 billion. Compared with in August 2016, it grew by $ 17,9 billion .... If we transfer the money that we pump into the US national debt to the ruble equivalent, these funds would be enough to build several of the largest enterprises such as the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station or the Stalingrad Tractor Plant .... I recall : US Treasuries issued by the Ministry of Finance other than the United States, and cover America’s budget deficit, which is largely due to military spending. These costs are directed, including against Russia. So, buying up US Treasuries, we pay the rope on which Uncle Sam plans to hang our country. " (V. Katasonov)
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 19 October 2017 19: 00
          +1
          "These funds would be enough to build several of the largest enterprises such as the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station or the Stalingrad Tractor Plant ..." Let private investors invest better - they will at least have more money there, and most of these $ 100 billion from large-scale construction by the state will not be allowed destination.
          1. AA17
            AA17 20 October 2017 11: 03
            +3
            Thank you, Vadim237 for the answer. We will consider this your recognition - at this stage, the state (i.e. the state apparatus, the system of Power, the MANAGING ELITE, etc.) is not capable of developing industry. Consequently, our government is not ready or cannot provide the technological development of Russia. In the long run, this means our lag in science, as well as in the military-industrial complex.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 21 October 2017 19: 37
              0
              Yes, the state has poor control over its funds - allocated from the goat. We need to create a cashless system - in which state funds, it will not be possible to withdraw from accounts without official confirmation of the end user - the contractor, online.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 21 October 2017 19: 58
                +3
                Quote: Vadim237
                We need to create a cashless system - in which state funds, it will not be possible to withdraw from accounts without official confirmation of the end user - the contractor, online.

                If the contractor is in share, he will confirm anything.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 22 October 2017 13: 08
                  0
                  Accordingly, with a contractor guarantee, if something is wrong, it will be redone at its own expense - as in Germany, road builders are obligated.
  6. afrikanez
    afrikanez 19 October 2017 09: 26
    12
    Thanks to the Internet, I would never have known that the Lipetsk Machine Tool Plant exists in my city. Previously, there was a huge plant and everyone knew about it (only it has long been gone and in its place a shopping center)
    1. Prosha
      Prosha 19 October 2017 12: 45
      +4
      And not only you alone, I also learn that I was in Ulyanovsk UZTS and others. The former flagship of the machine tool building of the Soviet government lost weight, a lot of things are produced on its premises, but if they do, then one in a decade. ((
  7. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 19 October 2017 09: 31
    10
    If you look carefully, it turns out that all “machine-tool construction” is “joint ventures”, where components delivered from abroad are “disposed of”, most likely obsolete. The quantity of “products” produced is calculated in prices, not in pieces — taking into account the fact that components from abroad have a foreign currency price that is growing in ruble terms, the cost of production is correspondingly growing every year (plus constantly rising costs due to “clogged” "the inflationary component of Russian natural monopolies). Thus, there is no real data on how real the number of manufactured machines has grown.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 19 October 2017 09: 56
      10
      Class! Pros!
      To catch you on a lie (and you are lying), you need to spend half a day.
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      All "machine-tool construction" are "joint" enterprises, where components supplied from abroad are "disposed of", most likely obsolete

      "Everything", "most likely" ... recognizable song yes
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      The quantity of "products" produced is calculated in prices, not in units

      And also - at "all" enterprises?
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      So there is no real data how real

      In Russian, it is called "stir up the water." However, as far as I managed to understand, this is what you specialize in.
      Is there enough for sausage though? If it’s really bad - let me know ... I’ll feed, otherwise you will lose weight more ... monster laughing
      1. groks
        groks 19 October 2017 11: 23
        +7
        Well, where do we produce components for these machines? The fact is that an enterprise of 200-250 employees cannot provide a complete cycle in any way. Yes, and never could, and do not do it. So where?
        Directory https://voronezh.sterbrust.com/catalog/tokarnye-p
        atrony-i-planshayby /
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 19 October 2017 15: 04
          +7
          Quote: groks
          Well, where do we produce components for these machines?

          Without a clue
          Quote: groks
          The fact is that an enterprise of 200-250 employees cannot provide a complete cycle in any way. Yes and never could, and do not do it

          Agree
          Quote: groks
          Catalog

          The broken link, once corrected, displays a website of some online store, a trip ...
          In short, I misunderstand you so far request
          1. groks
            groks 19 October 2017 16: 33
            +3
            And I’m not beaten. Well, okay.
            This is a catalog of accessories. Machine tools. I suggest there to look for domestic.
            I would not refuse simple electronic components. Mosfet at 30-50Vh10-50A and electrolytic capacitors 1000-10000mkFh10 \ 16 \ 25 \ 35V. At a price comparable to the Chinese. These are very popular components today, and not some kind of exotic.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 19 October 2017 17: 35
              +7
              Quote: groks
              This is a catalog of accessories. Machine

              Hmm ...

              Maybe you have a cotologist too ... request
              1. groks
                groks 19 October 2017 19: 17
                0
                I'm sorry. Looks for someone Russian stores are not quite accessible.
                It's okay, you can open any other. Which will open.
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 19 October 2017 20: 56
                  +7
                  Quote: groks
                  I'm sorry. Looks for someone Russian stores are not quite accessible

                  A-a-thief excuse good
                  Dear, I’ve been at the computer for 25 years, and I’ll “enter” wherever you wish ... but only via a normal link.
                  Okay, I understand you. As for the electronics, you are right - all around Taiwan and everything nearby. So is it like this all over the world, or do you think that the Amerans themselves rivet them?
                  As for machine components - I'm really not in the subject, I wanted to broaden my horizons, but now, I broke off.
                  Okay, I’ll go with grief get drunk dog walk laughing
                  1. groks
                    groks 19 October 2017 21: 42
                    +4
                    Is this my excuse? Well, it’s necessary - the only office in the Russian Federation for the sale of machine tools and the site did not open.
                    For those who have been at the computer for hundreds and thousands of years - there are links in the text in English, but in Russian it says "tokarnye-p
                    atrony-i-planshayby ".
                    Hmmmm ... the stubborn reluctance to enter the catalog either indicates that it was still possible to enter the catalog, but it will be losing discussion of the opened picture or it really will not open - then I’m even afraid to guess.
    2. Olezhek
      Olezhek 19 October 2017 19: 38
      +1
      If you look closely, it turns out that all "machine tool" - "joint" enterprises, where components supplied from abroad are "recycled"most likely outdated. The quantity of "products" produced is calculated in prices, not in units, given that components from abroad have a currency price that grows in ruble equivalent, then the cost of production increases accordingly each year


      Something like that...
  8. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 19 October 2017 09: 33
    +3
    We need to buy machine tool manufacturers (there are always good manufacturers in difficult situations) and transfer them to our territory
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 19 October 2017 17: 56
      +4

      Quote: Zaurbek
      We need to buy machine tool manufacturers (there are always good manufacturers in difficult situations) and transfer them to our territory

      Do not go.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 19 October 2017 21: 55
        +1
        Transport and do not:
        1. enter the director’s gene
        2. introduce specialists from the Russian Federation
        3. Build a factory with the assistance of specialists
        4. internship people
        5 you start a plant with OTC specialists and engineers from the company
        6. You get full production.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 19 October 2017 22: 27
          +3
          Quote: Zaurbek
          6. You get full production.

          All this will cost more than in any other country. The climate is not very good. After us - perhaps Mongolia. You need to heat a lot. The foundation, then, this ... You can certainly compare with Finland, but there is more order. We are building because of ssanktsii. Thank you, though. And if we fully integrate into the global economy, then we will have a chance. The very 15 million people that Thatcher spoke about will remain for the export of resources and the service staff. So I'm arms and legs against globalization. But while the sanctions, then they will go, I take my words back. And so, it’s much easier to build somewhere in India, but there the people are dumb. Well, I think so. But, you see for yourself, our hucksters do not particularly think about building something. Like the state. But China needs a market.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 19 October 2017 23: 00
            0
            If you are going to study, yes (with the amendment, that the Krasnodar Territory is still far from modern crops. There is progress, but far). And on the machines it does not matter what. Important demand and credit support and ruble s / b.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 19 October 2017 23: 43
              +3
              Quote: Zaurbek
              And on the machines it does not matter what.

              It has. Heating is expensive. I remember how the director of AvtoVAZ - the Swede, it seems he was, said that the cost of Kalina was 50 thousand rubles. Then they did not refute his words, but said that in winter the cost is much higher. Compare the apartment with huge workshops, and estimate the cost of heating. There already a couple of people gave a link to "Why Russia is not America." Pretty serious job.
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 20 October 2017 23: 36
                +1
                Heating in machine-tool-x .... 0,001% in s / b.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 20 October 2017 23: 41
                  +3
                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  x .... 0,001% in s / b.

                  And where does the figure come from, interesting?
                  1. Zaurbek
                    Zaurbek 21 October 2017 00: 11
                    +1
                    The prime cost in machine tool industry is made up of energy (this is far from heating) and depreciation of equipment, electronics and R&D. Raw materials cost not so much
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 21 October 2017 00: 28
                      +3
                      Maybe just in the energy sector and lay heating? And where is the water, salary? However, for me it is a dark forest, although I once studied the economy, but I remember almost nothing. By the way, I work in a workshop without heating, our bourgeois has only one potbelly stove in the neighboring workshop (if you can call it that), I put it on the turners, and that’s it.
                      1. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 21 October 2017 13: 50
                        +1
                        Metal casting, those other operations take an incommensurable amount of energy.
  9. Tolik_74
    Tolik_74 19 October 2017 11: 03
    +7
    The "reformers" of the Chelyabinsk machine-tool plant were poher, such an enterprise was.
  10. Boris63
    Boris63 19 October 2017 11: 13
    +7
    Yeah ... damn it. Mr. Sverdlov went bankrupt ... The brand and platforms were sold ... The buyer ... Kirov-Stankomash is more likely dead than alive. And beyond the Urals ... there was a Novosibirsk heavy. mash. Maybe he just ... profuca ...
  11. 34 region
    34 region 19 October 2017 12: 41
    +5
    Funny volumes! In the USSR, in only one workshop, under one roof, stood more than two thousand machines. And CNC in the 80s was imported in large volumes. And carousel set. Machined parts of 5 tons of weight. And there were wood-making workshops where they made molds for castings. And at the factory in the workshop, they themselves made molds for the press. And machines can be not only metalworking. And not just for woodworking. There are also looms. Are they released today? Fabric on what to do? And on which machines to bend sheets for arrows of truck cranes? And to cut sheets of metal on what? And do we produce metal casting lines? And the glass casting lines? What about the brick and tile production line? But these are also machines.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 19 October 2017 19: 04
      0
      In the USSR, in only one workshop, under one roof, stood more than two thousand machines. - For the production of what and for whom?
      1. 34 region
        34 region 20 October 2017 11: 00
        +2
        19.04/XNUMX. Vadim! For the country and for the people! And today I watch people very surprised by such a quantity of equipment. Today, five machines are already a factory, and a twenty-large enterprise! wassat
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 22 October 2017 13: 13
          0
          "For the country and for the people" Sorry - 70% of the equipment was used for defense and for export - for free and the USSR included 15 countries; therefore, it is not worth comparing volumes with Russia, current machines replace 10 to 100 then machines, depending on operations which they make and riveting them in tens of thousands does not make sense - there will be no one to buy.
          1. 34 region
            34 region 22 October 2017 22: 46
            +1
            13.13. Vadim! Do not grind nonsense. We had a lot of machines of domestic assembly. They were even bought by Japan. How can a modern lathe or loom replace 10 or 100 Soviet? How can one carousel replace 10-100 Soviet ones? A coordinate-boring? And how to hon the cylinders? Although I admit here the possibility of processing immediately 4-6-8 cylinders. In the 70s, there was a wave of the need to change the machine park every 5-7 years. In the 80s, new machines started a powerful wave. Even the cars tried to update to new ones. Like, it’s worthless to put young drivers in old trash. In the foundry, automatic lines were installed. Today I look foundries are working on the technology of the times of Peter the Great. Everything is on the navel. They were about to release energy-saturated tractors. To do several operations in one pass. And what kind of machine tools does Russia produce today for the national economy? Launches for furniture? Well, at least format-sawing? Or chipboard cutting centers? Does it produce filler machines? And edge-glued? Does it release looms? And spinning? What about molds today? What about the blacksmiths? Does a blacksmith hammer give you 10-100 crankshafts at a time today?
  12. Vladimir Vasilich
    Vladimir Vasilich 19 October 2017 12: 52
    +2
    Against the background of secular showdowns with Matilda and Maryanovich, this article breathed freshness into our dull "information" field
  13. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 19 October 2017 14: 49
    +1
    Quote: 34 region
    Funny volumes! In the USSR, in only one workshop, under one roof, stood more than two thousand machines. And CNC in the 80s was imported in large volumes. And carousel set. Machined parts of 5 tons of weight. And there were wood-making workshops where they made molds for castings. And at the factory in the workshop, they themselves made molds for the press. And machines can be not only metalworking. And not just for woodworking. There are also looms. Are they released today? Fabric on what to do? And on which machines to bend sheets for arrows of truck cranes? And to cut sheets of metal on what? And do we produce metal casting lines? And the glass casting lines? What about the brick and tile production line? But these are also machines.

    So what's the matter ??? Dare, or just whining and wailing is easier ???
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 19 October 2017 17: 58
      +8
      Quote: Dimon19661
      So what's the matter ??? Dare, or just whining and wailing is easier ???

      Don't talk nonsense.
    2. groks
      groks 19 October 2017 19: 20
      +4
      Yes easily. USSR return. And you, gentlemen liberals, have something to brag about, besides the fakes mentioned in the article?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 19 October 2017 22: 40
        0
        But not fakes -
        1. groks
          groks 20 October 2017 07: 34
          +3
          This is not fake, this is a screwdriver.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wndCnV_PQu8 С 5.50 примерно. Кожух уже сами делаем и лоток для стружки. Насчёт "электронной части" они погорячились.
          Everything is simple. We look from what the device is made and look for manufacturers of components. If we do not have production of electronic components, then we can’t produce our own electronics. If there is no production of calipers, spindles, cartridges and heads, then the machine can only be a screwdriver.

          People. Your unas read like bad AI books. According to the drum, that there is no chemical production in the 17-18-19 century, the hitman will still manage to make a Kevlar vest.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 19 October 2017 23: 18
        0
        You can go here http://bpk-spb.ru/russian_production/ and know what they are doing for machine tools in Russia, as well as what they will do.
        1. groks
          groks 20 October 2017 07: 50
          +3
          And through the link we learn that our beds are pouring, we can make fences. And what will they do ... maybe they won’t do anything.
  14. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 19 October 2017 14: 57
    +6
    In the USSR, machine tools and automatic lines and specialists were made, working and manufacturing products on them. And now, some malls and malls are on the site of machine-tool plants and some are sold and managers. And changes in this situation in the current government are not visible.
    1. Vasya Vassin
      Vasya Vassin 19 October 2017 17: 01
      +4
      I agree in our area there was a large KPO plant, several thousand jobs, supplied equipment to dozens of countries around the world! From the beginning of perestroika, the systematic looting of the plant began, as I recall, the first to dismantle and sell the floors from the workshop, they were made of aluminum alloy ...
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 19 October 2017 22: 46
      0
      The technologies are different, new materials and machines are needed appropriate, corresponding to the economic efficiency of production - given the lost time, such systems can be created now, only in cooperation with foreign manufacturers.
      1. groks
        groks 20 October 2017 07: 52
        +4
        Which others? Turn round, mill the rest. Is time lost? Oh, oh - and who made 25 years to ruin everything?
  15. ruff
    ruff 19 October 2017 18: 06
    +7
    In the city of Petrozavodsk, there were two machine-building plants for the production of woodworking machines and lines, and an experimental-mechanical plant that built non-standard equipment and equipment. All three are dead since the mid-2000s. From machine tool industry, there were miserable scraps. there are no cadres or scientific centers. Despite the fact that in 2004-2012, only from rising oil prices, the budget of the Russian Federation received 1.8 trillion dollars. What did Putin and his codla do with them? He invested in American papers, the SCO and the Olympics summits, to support bankers in 2008 - 2014 ... Nothing will come of the new regime in Russia under the current regime. Not those guys in power.
    1. Dedall
      Dedall 20 October 2017 21: 05
      +1
      I completely agree with you. I’ll also note that if everyone persuades to go to the presidential election of 3 more neighbors and vote against the GDP, even Ksenia will come down, then something should change. But if you think that it resolves itself, it will turn out as with appendicitis.
  16. weksha50
    weksha50 19 October 2017 18: 11
    +7
    Hmm ... I already thought that machine tool building in Russia is completely in the pen ... Thank God, at least something is being done ...
    Why did I say that? Yes, because these articles are similar to the cliché of ceremonial relations, and the data is somehow not so blurred, but the washings that you especially don’t understand ... Here, from the article: in 2011, Russia was in 21st place in the world in machine tool construction but on the other hand, in 2012 it produced machines for 3 billion rubles, and in 2013 - for 3,7 billion rubles ... What does ME (and the entire population, and even specialists) say that? Yes, nothing ...
    Or, as always, blur the eyes of the "electorate": "WE plow for your good" ...
    I do not go bile, I just did not like this ceremonial and slippery report ...
    At the same time, I am glad that not everything is so bad ... Managers who are ehvective have not yet managed to completely destroy machine tool building ...
    1. Alf
      Alf 19 October 2017 20: 48
      +6
      Quote: weksha50
      Not yet managed ehvektivnye managers to completely destroy the machine tool industry ...

      Just in time. All enterprises listed above are private, and foreign private. In the best case scenario, our men only collect, and nameplates add.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 19 October 2017 22: 51
        +1
        In general, localization of production there is 50% and it will grow every year.
        1. True
          True 20 October 2017 18: 52
          +2
          Quote: Vadim237
          In general, localization of production there is 50% and it will grow every year.

          Well, right, the electronics are getting smaller and lighter, but there is no bed. Sooner or later 90% will be localization. By weight of the product.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 21 October 2017 19: 47
            0
            Localization will be in everything: electronics, mechatronics, hydraulic drives, mechanics.
  17. Olezhek
    Olezhek 19 October 2017 19: 36
    +8
    Huge investments, a lot of factories, the creation of jobs (in small quantities) and the production of ridiculous amounts of equipment. All production is spread over the territory.


    Well, as a person who has a bit of a disappointment in the subject: a large part of the so-called "production of Russian machine tools" is a large-unit assembly of imported machines

    And if you approach stupidly in the forehead, then yes - the machine is “assembled” in Russia.
    Reminds 90-e, assembly of American jeeps in Elabuga - there bumper and wheels were attached to the jeep ...

    The technology is as follows: we make a ready-made machine behind the hill, assemble, test, disassemble, and carry it to Russia.
    And then we make the final assembly again.
    Meaning?
    Get away from customs duties and get into the public procurement program.
    So the machine "productions" by Rasese are like uncut dogs ...
    In fact - this is a bulkhead and import repainting.
    Such are the things ... request

    No separate, irresponsible details can be made in Russia, but practically no one has real localization. Uninteresting and expensive.
    So everything is bad. We buy imports, and games with duties / government purchases (only machines grew. Production!).
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 19 October 2017 23: 15
      +1
      To date, in the framework of the project "Machine Tool" in Russia is made:

      Casting bed;
      Mechanical treatment of beds;
      Turrets and tool stores for turning and milling machining centers;
      All mechanical parts for waterjet and plasma cutting plants;
      Production of protective casings, fences, cabinet protections and chip conveyors;
      Wiring of all systems on the machine;
      Work is underway on the production of calipers and spindle units.
      1. groks
        groks 20 October 2017 07: 56
        +3
        I propose to find a domestic manufacturer of those "goals". And even a little bit to delve into what is written. It is a shame to bend a tin cover for an imported machine.
  18. Arkady Gaidar
    Arkady Gaidar 19 October 2017 23: 51
    +5
    Well, what is the article about? How is everything great with us in this regard? Or vice versa?
    It seems to me that this is how the election race affects the art of journalists and writers)) The presidential race has not yet been announced, but propaganda tension is already felt in many materials. And most importantly, most of these materials are not finished! Such articles do not offer exact conclusions, only empty transfers)))
    Or maybe the author is tense and will tell readers what countries the "roots" of holdings and enterprises of our heavy industry are in. What islands do the parent companies live on? And which capital is settling here for further development, and which and in what volume are exported from Russia?))
  19. nikvic46
    nikvic46 20 October 2017 12: 08
    0
    The construction of machine tools is impressive. It is well known that we can make high-quality machine tools. We exported machines to some European countries before. They praised the accuracy of our machines very much. But alas, they are CNC right there.
    replaced with your own. Electronics remained the weakest point. Ivanovo centers worked like clockwork with German CNC.
    Making a good machine was half the battle. Thirty years ago I bought Japanese measuring instruments with my money and used them. I didn’t have any comments from the controllers. When using them, I don’t have to look squinting at the risks, I looked at the numbers, and they neither have never failed.
  20. Technologist
    Technologist 20 October 2017 18: 27
    +2
    Another dust in the eyes (((
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 October 2017 19: 50
      0
      Everything flows, everything changes, and making a machine from scratch is long and expensive - it is still not clear whether they will buy it. The USSR allowed a lot of things to be done for free, for the whole world — Russia will not do this.
  21. Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 22 October 2017 15: 31
    0
    Quote: andr327
    and production of ridiculous volumes of equipment

    Do you consider 1000 pcs at one plant is not enough? The machine is bought not for one year but for at least 5 years. Therefore, 3-5 thousand machines per year are quite enough + something is imported
  22. Fetaxa
    Fetaxa 24 October 2017 11: 17
    0
    STAN - this is generally the withdrawal of revolutions under the guise of machine tools.
    I’m completely silent about the peak of incompetence of Stankoprom ...
  23. Protos
    Protos 25 October 2017 01: 23
    0
    Quote: 210ox
    Plant named after Sedin

    "Rumors of my death are somewhat exaggerated." C. Mark Twain
    http://www.k-zts.ru/index