Military Review

Belarusian army - grandfathers "they rule"?

66



Recently, in the training center of the Belarusian army in Pechy, where soldiers in military service are acquiring a military specialty, a serviceman was found hanging. This case raised a storm of indignation in society.

In the media and social networks, there is a lot of evidence of hazing, cruel morals reigning in the barracks, they even recall the Soviet past. All are united in one thing - this shameful phenomenon has no right to be, and those guilty of this must suffer the most severe punishment.

The investigation is being carried out by the Investigative Committee of the Republic of Belarus and the case is under the control of the President. And no matter how many people shout that the perpetrators are not found or punished by a sergeant, they are wrong - recently there has been a clear trend in the Belarusian army to cover these events, though not as quickly as many would like. However, the point here is not so much in quickness, but in ethical norms and the desire to completely clarify the picture.

Investigation of a crime, and in Belarus, non-statutory relations are considered under Article 443 of the Criminal Code (!), Is not an immediate matter, the decision on which is taken on the basis of investigative actions that cannot be done in a day or two with a hitch.

Naturally, the life of a person is the most valuable and it is not possible to return it even by punishing the guilty. But even being shocked by what is happening, it is impossible to judge everyone with the same brush or to demand the resignation of this or that official. There are excellent commanding fathers, and there are departing numbers, there are conscientious soldiers, and there are "mowers." The army is a part of society. A person goes a long way to the service - he is brought up first at home, then in the garden and school, with certain baggage he comes to the army. Therefore, to assert that the case in the Armed Forces is not correct.

The case in Pechi is not only a terrible tragedy of a single family, but also a huge blow to the authority of the defense department, by all military personnel who conscientiously perform military duty, and such, by the way, the overwhelming majority.

In the Armed Forces there is a clear distinction between subordination and responsibility. This is enshrined in the Charter, which is known to be written in blood. Thanks to a clear hierarchy, the military body is able to perform its tasks as intended clearly and on time. A man in uniform at all times was the first who, if necessary, rose up to defend his country.

“Hazing” - a phenomenon that slanders the entire military department, should disappear and it should be dealt with the most stringent measures. These are exceptional cases, which, unfortunately, take place, especially where the soldiers are not sufficiently loaded with real combat training and there is no proper control by the officials, whose duties are also clearly defined. Therefore, it can be stated unequivocally that all the perpetrators will be found and will receive the deserved punishment.

Unfortunately, such actions exist around the world, but not many countries are able to publicly cover the fight against this process. Belarus, unlike many states that teach the world of democracy, does not hide these shameful things from the public. Therefore, to assert that the Ministry of Defense is trying to "hush up" similar incidents, when so many technologies and controls are not true. Moreover, commanders are even encouraged to identify such crimes, and the way is widely reported in the press. Therefore, the attacks of many media outlets, especially those of the opposition on the defense department, are not clear. This clearly shows an attempt by certain forces to discredit the army and all power structures.

The problem is somewhat different: the army must be made attractive, so that young people are proud of their service and have certain bonuses for it, so that people try to serve, as it happens, for example, in Israel and undergo a rigorous selection, so that under any circumstances it would be impossible to get into the army ranks. But how to do it - should be decided at the state level, with the involvement of specialists of various ranks.
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 16 October 2017 05: 56 New
    12
    I wonder in which army, "grandfathers" do not rule ...? what there are such?
    1. himRa
      himRa 16 October 2017 06: 01 New
      +9
      Quote: Dead Day
      I wonder in which army, "grandfathers" do not rule ...? what there are such?

      NO! And it can’t be! It is in the manifestations of superiority or subordination that a hierarchy is built even in groups mixed by gender!
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 16 October 2017 06: 02 New
        +6
        Quote: himRa
        NO! And it can’t be!

        and I for sho ... the wisdom of military affairs, "grandfathers" and convey "sludge", there should not be confused with criminality, this is a completely different story.
        1. himRa
          himRa 16 October 2017 06: 19 New
          +3
          Quote: Dead Day
          Quote: himRa
          NO! And it can’t be!

          and I for sho ... the wisdom of military affairs, "grandfathers" and convey "sludge", there should not be confused with criminality, this is a completely different story.

          It’s true as it is true that, “criminal cases,” there is a place to be .. but they should be evaluated without an emotional, feminine point of view ... and not, “inflate”, and make of it, a tendency,
        2. Curious
          Curious 16 October 2017 21: 28 New
          +5
          Well, what kind of "wisdom" "grandfathers" convey? And in what charter of "grandfathers" did he authorize this?
      2. Esoteric
        Esoteric 16 October 2017 06: 50 New
        +8
        Quote: himRa
        NO! And it can’t be! It is in the manifestations of superiority or subordination that a hierarchy is built even in groups mixed by gender!

        You will determine the wording. Hazing is a phenomenon when military servicemen of an earlier draft (having a longer service record) use this provision to humiliate the "young" soldiers who have just been called up. Go to any part and try to find the conscript of the "building" graduate officer. And in the civic team, the young leader "rips off chips" from older ordinary workers. In normal units where they are engaged in combat training, dismantling based on prison laws is not respected. A bullet - it brings down an elephant. Another thing is when those who have served a longer term in / in a joking manner, without causing bodily harm and causing moral injuries, reveal shortcomings in the preparation of a colleague.
        1. himRa
          himRa 16 October 2017 10: 47 New
          +3
          Quote: Esoteric
          You will determine the wording

          What do you need to clarify? meaning of words wink
          Quote: Esoteric
          Go to any part and try to find the conscript of the "building" graduate officer.

          As many as you want! When conscripts-Caucasians put on an, ,, counter ,, officer
          Quote: Esoteric
          dismantling on the basis of prison laws is not respected. A bullet - it brings down an elephant. Another thing is when those who have served

          This is what needs to be clarified,
          The question is who should do this if some, due to the instincts of the monkeys, do not understand this.
          Quote: Esoteric
          Another thing is when those who have served a longer term in / serve in a joking manner, without causing bodily harm and causing moral injuries, reveal shortcomings in the preparation of a colleague

          Perfect option!
        2. Ace Tambourine
          Ace Tambourine 16 October 2017 18: 31 New
          +1
          I can honestly answer you ..
          When he was an ordinary SA, he built young flyers strictly according to the Charter ... And they worked under my control, dug ditches and pulled cables, .. And what can I do, I’m a soldier, but the specialist was more abrupt than them, who graduated from VU, and a bit older, and experience working on instrumentation, communications, electrical and more ...
          Yes, frankly, he built not only Leyts, but also Polkans, lumps of missile divisions for misconduct under the Charter of officers subordinate to them ...
          And nothing ... remained alive and well ... If anyone is interested, you can read my army stories on Proza.ru Igor Makagonov, though there isn’t about that there, but I can write and add, I’m not a bit lying and I’m thinking about it ....
          1. Ace Tambourine
            Ace Tambourine 16 October 2017 18: 43 New
            +1
            Even the Batu made him apologize once in writing through the military prosecutor's office of the garrison ...
            1. Lex.
              Lex. 16 October 2017 20: 00 New
              +1
              Even the Batu made him apologize once in writing through the military prosecutor's office of the garrison ...
              On March 26, the President of the Republic of Belarus signed Decree No. 137 “On the Elimination of Military Prosecutor's Offices”. According to the document, from September 1, 2014, the Belarusian military prosecutor’s office and 11 inter-garrison military prosecutor’s offices will be liquidated, the presidential press service informs.
              you are late
              1. Ace Tambourine
                Ace Tambourine 16 October 2017 20: 12 New
                +1
                So years how much has passed ... and the country is different .. In the sense that Belarus is already another country ..
                And in a strange monastery ...
                1. Lex.
                  Lex. 16 October 2017 20: 17 New
                  0
                  civil prosecutor will do everything
          2. Curious
            Curious 16 October 2017 21: 35 New
            +2
            It was also necessary to have the Minister of Defense and the General Staff at the same time send a point or a ceremonial burial of a cigarette butt. Or do not have time, the dream is over?
      3. Alex_59
        Alex_59 16 October 2017 11: 28 New
        +4
        Quote: himRa
        And it can’t be! It is in the manifestations of superiority or subordination that a hierarchy is built even in groups mixed by gender!

        Nothing like this. It all depends on the level of cultural and intellectual development. In the army, hazing is understandable from where - sometimes such log breakers and piggies fall into it, which you can’t explain anything without a fist. In advanced cases, the upbringing of such oaks is hypertrophied into general hazing and criminality, which is sad. But on the whole, this must be avoided by rejecting such stiff ones even before the army, all the more so since soon they will have absolutely nothing to do there, due to the general complication of technology and computerization. You can’t put a tractor driver in “Armata”.
        But as an engineer, I have never experienced hazing while working in factories, but the engineering team is more likely an analogue of an officer club, where oaks are a rarity. Here, all the same, people with higher education, with developed brains and consciousness.
      4. opus
        opus 16 October 2017 12: 36 New
        +5
        Quote: himRa
        It is in the manifestations of superiority or subordination that a hierarchy is built even in groups mixed by gender!

        Don’t beat the crap

        -The grandfather’s authority is not in dispute. (Grandfather is always right)
        -The order of the grandfather is not discussed. (If Grandfather is wrong, then see point 1)
        -Grandfather cannot touch the objects used for cleaning the premises (buckets, rags, mops, brooms).
        - The sergeant of the junior conscription cannot set tasks for the grandfather (ordinary) on chores.
        -Fighters of the first year of service (junior conscription) are forbidden to attend a soldier’s teahouse [45].
        -Fighters of the first year of service (junior conscription) are prohibited from modifying their uniforms (suturing trousers, hats, making inserts in boots, epaulets, chevrons, etc.), since these elements distinguish the grandfather from the young one externally.
        -Fighters of the first year of service (junior conscription) are forbidden to keep their hands in their pockets in any weather.
        -If a soldier of the first year of service received a parcel (transfer, money transfer), then he must first take it to his grandfathers, who take everything that they consider necessary from themselves.
        “The Golden Spirit” (a rare case) is the only soldier of the new draft in the platoon of “grandfathers”. - “Grandfathers” are obliged to put the golden spirit above themselves in the hierarchy.

        and if some of the “provisions” are funny and harmless, then some are frankly crap because to tell
        ================
        I remember myself as a little kid, from a neighbor (grandmother): a good Russian family, surname, grandfather of the 2nd war passed, my grandmother worked all my life, their son is an engineer, the grandson went to the army as a private.

        returned to the grave, forbidden to open
        Quote: himRa
        It is in the manifestations of superiority or subordination that a hierarchy is built

        "hierarchs" hammered a nail into his skull, because he refused to obey their moronic concepts

        See these beautiful guys led by senior sergeant Lavrov? They are not supposed to wash their feet by the service life, and they love cleanliness. Will they wash footcloths with baby soap: they are afraid of microbial damper


        =====================
        in Israel there seems to be no hazing?
        There is no and cannot be "hazing" in Israel. In Hebrew, even such a word is absent. When five years ago, a trio of sung “Russian” guys just tried to plant something similar in one company, then, firstly, the newly-minted “grandfathers” immediately went to jail, secondly, the company was disbanded, and thirdly, a number of high-ranking officers who did not notice the hazing in the units entrusted to them, went by no means an honorable resignation.

        the PLA seems to be the same

        (PS this is not "hazing")
        1. himRa
          himRa 16 October 2017 14: 46 New
          +2
          Quote: opus
          Don’t beat the crap


          I inserted this episode:
          1-remind about a good Soviet film
          2-give an example ,, plasticity ,, laws as written and not written ..
          I will tell you my case:
          It was in 1981 in Minsk while serving in the SA ..
          Then they served for 2 years in the armed forces in the Navy - 3 years ...
          I have already served for six months explaining still ,, young ,, but not yet ,, ladle ,,
          parents didn’t offend with health, he had time to do martial arts before the service ...
          Approaches me 1.5 year-old formally ,, grandfather ,, but not ,, demobilization ,,
          He throws me footcloths and orders me to wash ... here we need to make a reservation that we washed the laundry in the laundry room, and so do not take it to the laundry, namely to wash, you colleague hope that this is “lawlessness” or hazing as you understand You
          Naturally, I gave him a mug, more than once, until I saw fear in his eyes ...
          Gentlemen, I hope they understand that this did not end and could not ... I understood, and accordingly I talked with my young people, got support and agreed on all the points, as this could happen at any time ...
          At night after lights out, as usual laughing called on ,, the interpreter ,,
          The terms ,, called ,,,, the interpretation ,, for those who served are understandable ...
          Naturally, I got up, two more guys got up, healthy and one not so good who took a stool in his hand and clearly showed his intentions ... started talking (interpreting)
          Bottom line: they suggested that my partner, myself, once again deal with me one on one, from which he naturally refused, then they approached the demobilization and they all were asked to go to their bunks ... this is the final ...
          For you, I propose the following situation: they send three brave guys-grandfather to the outfit, put them on the senior squad, despite the fact that, “young”, he can know the charters and the service ....
          If everyone is equal then they will put the senior outfit of the one whose words and orders do not cause disputes (physical condition, leader)
          And it is justified in armies but it’s also formally, hazing, and not written laws
          For example fellow conscript and an equal in rank and position can make a remark in appearance and depending on what tone it will be done hazing depends on or not! tongue
          I recommend watching Professor Savelyev on YouTube and you will understand what I wrote .... hi
          This whole monologue because
          -Do not smack nonsense
    2. Anglorussian
      Anglorussian 16 October 2017 10: 12 New
      +5
      United Kingdom. I have long and unsuccessfully explained to my military friends what it is.
      1. himRa
        himRa 16 October 2017 10: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: Anglorussian
        United Kingdom. I have long and unsuccessfully explained to my military friends what it is.

        Well, about the “intelligent,” Europeans are legendary ... the problem of tolerance will be clearer for them ...
        1. opus
          opus 16 October 2017 13: 49 New
          +3
          Quote: himRa
          .the problem of tolerance they will understand ...

          oh, what does it have to do with it?
          The thing is different:
          Preobrazhensky Evgeny Alekseevich - sat
          Bukharin Nikolai Ivanovich - sat
          Trotsky Lev Davidovich - sat
          Kamenev Lev Borisovich - sat
          Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich - sat
          Molotov Vyacheslav Mikhailovich - sat
          Dzerzhinsky Felix Edmundovich - sat
          Zinoviev Grigory Evseevich - sat
          Tomsky Mikhail Pavlovich - sat
          Sverdlov, Yakov Mikhailovich - sat
          etc
          Lenin, Vladimir Ilyich-mmmm, well, everyone knows.
          Almost the entire elite of the new state: was arrested, sat, was in hard labor, and so on.
          Accordingly, these studies do not go in vain.
          This is for life.
          "the fish rots from the head".
          therefore
          Quote: himRa
          manifestations of superiority or submission
          They were transferred to control, to the troops and to society.
          Well, where can you read to find out that the director of the CIA, the head of the Pentagon, the head of the State Department or the director of the Mi-5/6 shouted obscenities?
          and bathhouses, and girls, and "barbecue under cognac"?
          Or what would be the sidelitz president / secretary general, head of the FBI?
          ===========================
          PS in England and then there is no notary
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 16 October 2017 14: 29 New
            +4
            Quote: opus
            oh, what does it have to do with it?
            The thing is different: they were transferred to the command, to the troops and to society.

            I’ll tell you a little secret. A good half of the commanders of the Red Army of the Civil War are tsarist officers in ranks up to and including generals. They never sat anywhere. And, as this does not sound fantastic, in the modern sense of hazing in the Red Army until the end of the 60's.
            And about the mat. I think that the CIA director and even the president obscenities are periodically expressed in them. Here the fact is that this is not endured on people. Someone more. Someone less.
            1. opus
              opus 16 October 2017 22: 08 New
              +2
              Quote: Alex_59
              The Red Army Civil War is the royal officers in the ranks up to and including the generals. They never sat anywhere

              officers in the Red Army (SA) did not determine politics) and hazing in the army (Red Army (SA))
              .
              commissars, political officers, and no other worthless trash + specialists.
              They determined.
              What secret do you try to open for me?
              My grandmother (my idol) was born in 1911: “the Soviet regime came, all the“ drunken drunkards, loafers ”became commissars, chairmen of collective farms ... she saw how my mom’s idiot“ pulled out earrings (with meat) from her ears ( surplus-appraisal or whatever the help of the starving Baltic countries.) my grandmother m / a others WORKED from 0 to 11 years
              Quote: Alex_59
              And, as this does not sound fantastic, in the modern sense of hazing in the Red Army until the end of the 60s was not.

              was. My grandfather passed both Finnish and Great Patriotic War.
              D "" was not during the wars.
              Do not believe you rtr

              crap
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 17 October 2017 07: 46 New
                +3
                Quote: opus
                What secret do you try to open for me?
                Grandmother (my idol) 1911 year of birth:

                Well, my grandfather and my grandmother had a different experience. Positive. And now, let’s measure who has grandparents more authoritative than that? Thugs were and are everywhere. And in the red army, and in the white army. Somewhere more, somewhere less. But the fascists also did not have all the Nazis who were stubborn - the same grandmother told me that the Wehrmacht soldiers behaved neatly and tactfully, and on the basis of this particular case should I conclude that the atrocities of the Nazis are RTR stories? Of course not. Just my grandmother, specifically she came across adequate Germans. And millions of other grandmothers got sadists.
                I do not watch TV. I read books.
                Quote: opus
                commissars, political officers, and no other worthless trash + specialists.
                They determined.

                And battle commanders silently endured like sheep. No, I don’t know how it is on RTR, but I don’t believe in fairy tales, even if they are posted on the Internet. Too much cranberries. Foul political officers spread rot for honest soldiers and officers ... WTF? What is the "red heat"? It’s ridiculous.
                Quote: opus
                My grandfather passed both Finnish and Great Patriotic War.

                My grandfather also fought with the Japanese. From his memoirs there was no hazing in the modern sense. Rather, there were approaches, but they fought fiercely and, on the whole, the people were dark, but the realization that you were serving in the victorious army was a kind of brake and limiter. After the departure of WWII veterans, the mess began to grow rapidly.
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 16 October 2017 17: 09 New
            +3
            Quote: opus
            Accordingly, these studies do not go in vain.
            This is for life.
            "the fish rots from the head".

            Heh heh heh ... and who was sitting in the military schools of the Imperial Army? But there, "clatter" was the norm.
            In cavalry schools, especially in Mykolayiv, there was a “clatter,” that is, the completely illegal power of senior junkers over younger ones. There, the “officer” over the “young” could do all kinds of things with impunity, which often turned into a mockery. He could order him to run around the hall ten times, to give twenty squats or fifty turns. And if the "young" valued his position in the School, he had to do all this with a cheerful smile.
            © Yuri Makarov
            In cavalry schools, especially in Mykolayiv, there was a traditional division of cadets into “cornets” (senior class) and “animals” (junior ones), and the custom was “pulling up”, “chomping” or simply beating “animals” with “cornet”. Sometimes the “tsuk” took the form of real torture, when, for example, the “beast” was forced to perform a hundred squats ... Or mockery of the human person, when the “beast” was supposed to memorize insulting nonsense or report to the “cornet” about the “influence of the moon light on the growth of forests of northern Kamchatka ”... Sometimes on this soil there were major clashes that forced the authorities to intervene.
            © Denikin
            1. opus
              opus 16 October 2017 22: 23 New
              +2
              Quote: Alexey RA
              He could order him to run around the hall ten times, to give twenty squats or fifty turns.

              this is not hazing
              1. I force my son and daughter to "run"
              2. So the Afghans are “forcing me” (well, not so of course, but it seems) and I am “running”: 20 different trunks at the training ground, no spine, back, loins ache .. "shoot a nerd, just arrived"
              (although older in rank), they were "across the river" - I do not
              3. And why? TK 1 and 2?
              -Children and wife know and fanatically believe: if it happens, dad will go and rake it, take the HEAVYEST AND DANGEROUS WORK (even with a “ducky”) / for example, manure will go down to well 0, or it will pull the car out of the swamp, etc. .
              -I know that the guys from afghanvet "go and rake, take the hardest and most dangerous work (even with a" stink ")
              and the wife washes the dishes, the children bring slippers, the Afghans will help when they cook
              BUT THIS IS NOT A HAZARD
              And this?

              (watch the comments to the end)
              my opinion: seeds are the deer that those 2 fagots (which are nearby) were used in the dark
              ========
              1. Believe me, I know what I’m talking about: my friend, was expelled, went to the ranks, there with his fellow countryman (he is from Grozny), they didn’t say anything, they crumpled 8 "such" idols ("grandfathers") - disbat - 0 years .
              HE IS A HUMAN! And even in training (heavy mlyn, steel legs arms) - not when, but we respected him. socks did not wash of course, but respect in another
              2. Two brothers: one afghan, the other .. I won’t tell gle, NOT ONE, ABOUT HAZARDOUS EVEN AND DID NOT STAY ABOUT
              3. Of the 7 great-grandfathers, I read letters 3 (the Russian Imperial) - I didn’t LYALYAKAL about ONE “HAZING”, great-grandmothers either (communicated personally) have never been mentioned

              Quote: Alexey RA
              "Beast" was forced to perform a hundred squats ...

              I force the youngest son to make 150 sit-downs, pull himself up and even give kicks.
              and?
          3. badens1111
            badens1111 16 October 2017 20: 01 New
            +1
            Quote: opus
            that

            Opus as a comment?
            1. opus
              opus 16 October 2017 22: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: badens1111
              Opus as a comment?

              I probably drank too much ...
              I don’t understand where the jamb is?
              wink
              chew the deer
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 17 October 2017 07: 54 New
                0
                Quote: opus
                chew the deer

                They chewed you higher.
          4. Elevator
            Elevator in the building 16 October 2017 20: 59 New
            0
            oh, you are an artist, a juggler, probably? no, no, islanders saints .. pirates by governors, for example? no, have not heard ..
      2. opus
        opus 16 October 2017 14: 00 New
        +2
        Quote: Anglorussian
        I have long and unsuccessfully explained to my military friends what it is.

        hazing


        somehow you didn’t "explain"

        ==================================
        although everything is different for you
        1. St Petrov
          St Petrov 16 October 2017 17: 16 New
          0
          served when - we had 3 suicides for two characters. More precisely, attempts.

          tricked out. no one beat them, did not rape, did not oppress (well, somehow nobody especially treated them either from their call or from earlier ones, everything was like everyone else)

          in general, the loop was removed once — the other two cases — the veins were cut.

          Now, after their unsuccessful suicide attempts, their life became full ....

          Everyone considered it his duty to kick these inferior. We slept on the take-off - not far from the daylight under the lamps - and during the day we went tied to grandfather for a thread wassat the battalion commander himself ordered and said - even though the hair falls from them you will answer - he was asked - comrade battalion commander, what should we tie them to ourselves? - in general, this is how they tied these clans to their strings in the morning.

          generally vile characters. weak will. I think only help in their suicide.

          And if they died, I can imagine how many heads flew, which had nothing to do with these clowns.

          In general, if someone hangs himself voluntarily - so be it. People who are rooting for cancer fight their lives, they buy medicines, and these ...

          Here, as it should be, I think - if they hanged it, then yes. And if he ... So lucky for him
          1. opus
            opus 16 October 2017 21: 55 New
            +4
            Quote: c-Petrov
            Everyone considered it his duty to kick these inferior.

            What for?
            The syndrome of rejection of the "white crow"?
            are we homo sapiens?
            or?
            or: as in (on) (under) from (etc.) ukrini?
            Fucking bl @ d with animal instincts and camp manners rule the mind?
            Quote: c-Petrov
            generally vile characters. weak will. I think only help in their suicide.

            if there were none, would you feel Al-Insānu l-Kamīl?
            Right?
            Quote: c-Petrov
            Here, as it should be, I think - if they hanged it, then yes. And if he ... So lucky for him

            about this and talk about hazing
            It
            NOT HAZELING:

            although Raheel Siddiqui, 20 years old (Muslim, seems to be Pakistani), died at Marine Corps on Parris Island on March 18, 2016.
        2. Anglorussian
          Anglorussian 16 October 2017 17: 48 New
          +1
          This is the US army, actually. And do not confuse practical joke (office rats also have similar fun sometimes) with hazing itself.
          1. opus
            opus 16 October 2017 22: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: Anglorussian
            This is the US army, actually.

            Do you think there is no such thing in Britain?
            English word

            To understand how you are mistaken read (at your leisure)
            The Fourth Protocol "" / Frederick Forsyth- interesting, moreover: o CNB
            HMS Ulysses "" / Alasdair MacGill-Eain- nerdy of course (but "enigma" is nouder ", however ...
            Quote: Anglorussian
            And do not confuse practical joke (office rats also have similar fun sometimes) with hazing itself

            Yours taught us this, then they became Tolleraists.
            1. Anglorussian
              Anglorussian 17 October 2017 01: 15 New
              +1
              I am more likely to believe those who know the local realities from the inside. Of course, it is impossible to avoid certain evil jokes and fights. But so that the community of Leeds immigrants will terrorize the whole wassat -there's no such thing.
              Yours taught us this, then they became Tolleraists.
              Yes of course. Textbooks were printed and transported across the border.
              I probably drank too much ...
              I don’t understand where the jamb is?
              Most likely it is yes .
              1. opus
                opus 17 October 2017 01: 25 New
                +2
                Quote: Anglorussian
                but so that the community of Leeds immigrants would terrorize the whole

                He terrorizes the strong physically, and the weak by the brains, steers them: just the opposite.
                Quote: Anglorussian
                Yes of course. Textbooks were printed and transported across the border.

                "Adam's apple" - that’s the whole point.
                In Russian, YURIST - A FATHER OF THE TRUTH
                In Russia there were JUSTICE that became RIGHT VEDAS
                JURISPRUDENCE - (lat. Jūris prūdentia “jurisprudence”, from lat. Jūs, genus jūris “law” and lat. Prūdentia “foresight”, “knowledge”)
                In Russian, JURIS Prudentia means LEGAL DAMAGE (Prudence - to pond, block.)


                That is, the truth in a lie turns for the sake of finding the righteousness false, unworthy and unkind. The more doctors and lawyers in the country, the more rotten that country, or have you forgotten this sign?

                A nation that has lost its cultural roots and has taken on an alien imposed is in trouble.

                Quote: Anglorussian
                Most likely it is

                it was a joke (and not for you, to get into other people's adult conversations: sign F70-F79 - "Mental retardation", do not flatter yourself very much, at the expense of "drank too much")
                1. The comment was deleted.
      3. Ace Tambourine
        Ace Tambourine 16 October 2017 20: 26 New
        0
        My God ... First you had to explain to the Anglo-Saxons the meaning, content and rules of using the Great Russian Mat ...
        And then move on to such everyday values ​​...
        1. Ace Tambourine
          Ace Tambourine 16 October 2017 20: 48 New
          +1
          Here again, I can not resist, and I will drive along the Gridasovs and Sharansky ...
          AI is impossible, because it is devoid of emotions ...
          The Russian language is built on emotions ...
          We say one thing, think about another, we mean generally God knows what, but the interlocutor understands us ... Abstract logic ..
          Zadornov talked a lot about this ...
    3. camo
      camo 19 October 2017 17: 45 New
      0
      Quote: Dead Day
      I wonder in which army, "grandfathers" do not rule ...? there are such?

      there’s no hazing in the Israeli army
  2. himRa
    himRa 16 October 2017 05: 57 New
    +4
    The case in Pechi is not only a terrible tragedy of a single family, but also a huge blow to the authority of the defense department, by all military personnel who conscientiously perform military duty, and such, by the way, the overwhelming majority.

    The author of course has exaggerated laughing
    I wonder if the author served or ... life knows basically .... virtually? winked and what happens in men's groups especially in the army?
    I understand the desire but it hurts somehow emotionally served ...
    1. 210ox
      210ox 16 October 2017 06: 53 New
      +3
      I would say that the author is from the past .. About twenty-five years ago .. When it was necessary to scream the army, such articles flowed in a stream. Unfortunately, such cases do happen, and it’s not just one “unstable” thing
      Quote: himRa
      The case in Pechi is not only a terrible tragedy of a single family, but also a huge blow to the authority of the defense department, by all military personnel who conscientiously perform military duty, and such, by the way, the overwhelming majority.

      The author of course has exaggerated laughing
      I wonder if the author served or ... life knows basically .... virtually? winked and what happens in men's groups especially in the army?
      I understand the desire but it hurts somehow emotionally served ...
      1. NIKNN
        NIKNN 16 October 2017 11: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: 210ox
        I would say that the author is from the past .. About twenty-five years ago .. When it was necessary to scream the army, such articles flowed in a stream. Unfortunately, such cases do happen, and it’s not just one “unstable” thing

        The author agrees from perestroika ... However, it is necessary to prove the case of the unregistered, maybe the girl married her husband and what kind of army didn’t heal ??? request How to order an article ... It should be like this ..., it should be that way ... In general, the army generally rules, and so everything is as it should be described ...
  3. Same lech
    Same lech 16 October 2017 06: 01 New
    +8
    There are wonderful fathers-commanders, and there are departing numbers, there are conscientious soldiers, and there are "mowers." The army is part of society.


    Where the officers of the unit show indifference and complete inaction to what is happening inside the barracks, similar excesses take place there ...

    no brainer if the unit commander takes action on time to violators of discipline and does not give them a descent no emergency usually does not happen ... it has always been like this in the army now.
  4. andrewkor
    andrewkor 16 October 2017 06: 14 New
    +1
    We had a case in our training manual, they took it out of the noose at night, by chance, barely alive. It turned out that his girlfriend threw it at home. They misled the poor fellow. call to call with a guard call and shooting up! 1971-73
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 16 October 2017 06: 23 New
      +1
      There was a case in our school, they took it out of the noose at night, by chance, barely alive. It turned out that his girlfriend threw it at home. They commanded the poor fellow.


      Weak in spirit ...
      Some shoot in toilets ... it is disgusting to look at it ... exchanged life for love emotions ... did not explain to these children that life is more important than anything.
      1. Esoteric
        Esoteric 16 October 2017 06: 54 New
        +3
        Quote: The same Lech
        exchanged life for love emotions ...

        Human life is completely riddled with love emotions. And without love, flies and girls of easy virtue live ...
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 16 October 2017 06: 55 New
          +2
          Human life is completely riddled with love emotions. And without love, flies and girls of easy virtue live ...


          Agree smile ... but the dead and the dead do not know this.
  5. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 16 October 2017 06: 35 New
    +8
    Not, with "hazing" for educational purposes, I agree. All the same, the army is also a kind of community with its laws. But only in educational. There, the bed was carelessly made up or you stumble somewhere, yes, old-timers know better through experience than officers. But when extortion, racketeering, money protection, flourishes, this is already common crime yes And "so we had it" doesn’t roll here no
    Ovens have shone more than once in such reports. This means that the system is already here and the officers are to blame for more, because of the “elitism” of the Furnaces who committed criminality rather than “hazing” request
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 16 October 2017 07: 12 New
    +3
    In the army, as in a boiler, people with various upbringing, psycho-physical data, and intelligence are “boiled”. Therefore, anything happens. But if an officer constantly keeps control of his unit, if you want to not get out of the barracks (as it was in our time in the 70-80s), does not engage in familiarity, knows his subordinates very well and delves into their needs, then he has hazing will not be.
    1. Jedi
      Jedi 16 October 2017 10: 52 New
      10
      My late battalion commander said this: "With proper control, hazing is good, not evil."
  7. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 16 October 2017 10: 01 New
    +1
    With the right officer-commander, despite the fact that the soldiers are not left to their own devices, and that they are primarily engaged in business, there is no madhouse. And suicide, let’s say so because of personal problems, it depends on the person .. closes in himself, that's all trouble ..
  8. win9090
    win9090 16 October 2017 12: 08 New
    +1
    He is a collective farm and a collective farm in Africa.
    1. Ronald Reagan
      Ronald Reagan 16 October 2017 19: 50 New
      +1
      The collective farm is to say the least. Would you know what thoughts the population has about our army. laughing
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 16 October 2017 19: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Ronald Reagan
        The collective farm is to say the least. Would you know what thoughts the population has about our army.

        So the army of which is driven by clowns such as Ronald Reagan, Bush, Obama and Trump, like an army of evil and bloody clowns, not worthy to be called the Army, but having every right to be called the Gang, as well as the United Gang of Aggressors in general.
        What does the RB of Belarus have to do with it?
        1. Ronald Reagan
          Ronald Reagan 16 October 2017 20: 26 New
          +1
          Who about what, and bald about a hairbrush? lol
  9. Cetron
    Cetron 16 October 2017 15: 53 New
    0
    Hazing was always and everywhere, sometimes a dull young man has to give a kick for acceleration, but criminality appeared in the SA in the 60s, when they began to call in the army those who had already served their sentences on youngsters. So they brought criminal romance to the barracks.
  10. Cadet
    Cadet 16 October 2017 19: 25 New
    0
    Hazing could occur in part, not only with the arrival of a so-called paid element, but also with some officers and ensigns, it is not necessary to blame everything on the rank and file, there is a lot to depend on the commanders. Here is an example from the service, the person has to serve for 2 months (served for two years), was sent on Sunday to unload coal, he took and put his index finger under the trolley wheel in the boiler room, he was tired of serving him, running cross-country courses, constantly practicing physically and shooting. Another shot cut the veins because they didn’t let the phone call home, before the oath I took the third shot, I got to the part where there was discipline and one physically, I immediately went to the hospital where my aunts and uncles were kind, lay there for almost a year !!!! they pulled out from there by force that no one knows what to do with him, he doesn’t know anything and doesn’t know either, they forced him to learn something about the duties of a daycare officer, he learned it, set it daylight so he ran away at night, ran for almost two weeks, surrendered to the military prosecutor’s office, spoke such a sergeant from a neighboring company that they dragged them and the commanders for a couple of months, sorted out and punished him, he personally saw that when he taught his fingers no one touched or screamed. Another shot was sent to us, in the previous part he had hazing, he was transferred to us, the first period, so he later also tried to breed hazing in the company until he received it from the senior staff in the tower. Although according to the stories of some colleagues who visited the district hospitals, there was such hazing that the hair stood on end, for example, as a punishment for misbehavior or something else, a nurse or a doctor in the winter could open a window and make a soldier stand one and a half on the windowsill, he saw me friends at a temperature of 39 forced to squat with a barbell, a major in the hospital so fought with simulators. I’m not complaining, I just brought the facts)))) And so it was normal to serve, I do not regret)))
    1. Cadet
      Cadet 16 October 2017 19: 31 New
      0
      to the hospital’s account, so after an operation, the old servant, in a cast and bandaged head, fled from there, got to the taxi in the taxi, and lay down in the hospital, didn’t want to hear about the hospital, although they fed him well))) he was only there hours, but some came from there with such packs)))
  11. Black5Raven
    Black5Raven 16 October 2017 19: 33 New
    +4
    but not many countries are able to openly cover the fight against this process. Belarus, unlike many states that teach the world of democracy, does not withhold these shameful things from the public.

    Oh yes, of course not withheld. Here we take this case
    “The Borisov district department of the Investigative Committee is conducting a preliminary investigation into the death of a soldier who has been in military service since May of this year. His body was found on October 3 in the basement of one of the buildings on the territory of a military unit located in the Borisov district. During the inspection of the scene no evidence of a criminal nature was found by the investigation. The data obtained as a result of the initial measures allow us to consider suicide as the main version. "

    The appeal of relatives to the prosecutor's office, raising hype in the media. AND SUDDENLY SPECIFIED
    "On October 21, 3-year-old Alexander Korzhich was found in a basement in a military unit in Pecs hanging in a loop from a trouser-cloth belt. The guy’s legs were tied with a lace of shoes and a T-shirt was put on his head."
    This is suicide. fool
    Think the first case? Take away. Everything is decorum and smooth on paper and silence .... until relatives make a noise, requires verification, exhumation, etc. and it turns out - a murder! And where was SK before?

    Therefore, it is argued that the Ministry of Defense is trying to “hush up” such incidents when so many technologies and means of control are not true. Moreover, commanders are even encouraged to identify such crimes, and the progress of the case is widely reported in the press.


    We look at the item above.

    Therefore, the attacks of many media outlets, especially the opposition ones on the defense department, are not clear. This clearly shows the attempt of certain forces to discredit the army and all power structures


    "Forces" trying to discredit the army and law enforcement agencies? Why, they discredit themselves in full!
    At around 18.00 pm on October 14, in Minsk in the 210 metrov space on Chapaeva Street, riot police detained about 50 people participating in the Minsk Edge Day 2017 concert. The detainees were taken to the district police department of the Partizansky district, and a few hours later they were released without drawing up protocols. Both Russians and Belarusians were tied up, as they later said, “an anonymous call”.

    Or they stormed the pediatrician’s apartment with his family, knocked out the door, broke something, delayed. A few days later - we mistakenly recognized that he was not the lover to open the coat they were looking for. There was no talk of damages and no apologies. There is no need to talk about the arrests of “parasites”.

    About the same army. Ugh, not an article. Not enough "glory But father" at the end.
  12. Lex.
    Lex. 16 October 2017 19: 57 New
    0
    The opposition decided to remove the devents
  13. xomaNN
    xomaNN 16 October 2017 21: 31 New
    0
    When Ameans are NOT busy with real combat training and "Uncle" is activated (white version) soldier
  14. Normal ok
    Normal ok 17 October 2017 01: 03 New
    0
    In Soviet times, the training was "famous" for the number of suicides. Now everything has only worsened. And if you recall how 6 years ago the amnestied convicts in the Russian army sawed a kid’s teeth with a file, there’s nothing to talk about.
  15. MONEY
    MONEY 18 October 2017 09: 46 New
    0
    Some kind of empty blah blah blah !! Why this clever man, expressing his opinion, does not report that in this last year’s training and this, six cases of death of military personnel !! Further, this is only in Pecs !! And what about others parts are done — they are silent !! In fact, in fact, in the power structures of Belarus, such a mess is being created that it’s just tough !! Siloviki, shoot, hang themselves !! Massively quit !! He went to the checkpoint with one border guard, he invited me to work !! that the people are running ... they work seven days a week !! They won’t even be able to straighten out incomplete sets of women massively !! And how many tyrants with general epaulettes !! Very often, parquet generals !!! And all this is washed away by a beautiful picture !!!
    1. Gamer
      Gamer 20 October 2017 16: 17 New
      0
      I was thinking in Belarus the dictatorship of the law in this regard. It’s good that the hype was raised, only in this way it is possible to avoid those terrible manifestations of hazing which never happened in the Belarusian army or in the Ukrainian, thank God, Ross. the army is not "caught up" http://uglich-jj.livejournal.com/82081.html
  16. Tolik_74
    Tolik_74 18 October 2017 10: 39 New
    0
    Such a mess is possible only with the connivance of high sculptors in general uniforms. And including a la Commander-in-Chief personally, seizing power, I am talking about the Shklov collective farm who has ruined the whole country over the years of mediocre rule, including the army.
    1. MONEY
      MONEY 22 October 2017 17: 06 New
      0
      I agree with you land !!!