"The Devil of the Revolution." The most mysterious leader of the Bolsheviks

273
Jacob Sverdlov - one of the most mysterious and unusual figures in the modern domestic stories. He lived only thirty-three years, having managed by this time to go through the life of an apothecary student to the chairman of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee (VTsIK), in fact one of the first persons of Soviet Russia. The Central Executive Committee Sverdlov headed the 31 year. The “Black Devil of the Bolsheviks” was how Yakov Mikhailovich described the enemies of Soviet power, and in the Soviet Union not only numerous streets and squares were named after an outstanding revolutionary, but also one of the largest cities in the country, Yekaterinburg, before 1991, Sverdlovsk. By the way, the region still bears the name of Sverdlov. However, if Yakov Sverdlov managed to live longer, it is possible, but rather guaranteed that he would fall victim to the inner-party struggle. Although you could have won it - who knows!

"The Devil of the Revolution." The most mysterious leader of the Bolsheviks




What kind of man was this mysterious Jacob Sverdlov, about whom we still, despite the numerous biographical works and the cities, streets and companies named after him, know so little? With full confidence we can only say that Sverdlov played a huge role in the leadership of the Bolsheviks during the 1917-1919 period. It was at this time that the formation of Soviet Russia took place and epochal events took place - the October Revolution occurred, the Civil War began. With the direct participation of Jacob Sverdlov, the execution of the royal family was organized. But more about that later.

The entire conscious life of Jacob Sverdlov - from 16 to 33 years - was held in the ranks of the revolutionary movement. He was born in Nizhny Novgorod on 23 on May 1885 of the year, and he plunged into the abyss of the revolutionary struggle already in 1901, joining the Russian Social-Democratic Labor Party. In the family of the father of the future Soviet leader, the engraver, Mikhail Izrailevich Sverdlov and his wife Elizaveta Solomonovna, there were six children - daughters Sophia and Sarah, sons Zinovy ​​(Yeshua-Solomon), Yakov, Veniamin and Leo. Apparently, the Sverdlovs did not belong to orthodox Jews. After Elizaveta Solomonovna died in the 1900 year, the head of the family, Mikhail Sverdlov, adopted Orthodoxy and soon married a Russian woman, Maria Alexandrovna Kormiltseva, with Herman and Alexander being born to another 2 son. Orthodoxy was also adopted by Zinovy, the elder brother of Jacob Sverdlov. He was also a very remarkable person - the godson of Maxim Gorky, then a soldier of the French Foreign Legion and, finally, corps general of the French army, a close friend of Charles de Gaulle.



Yakov himself graduated from the four classes of the gymnasium, studied for a while as an apothecary, but then engaged in political activities. In September, 1905, the 20-year-old Sverdlov, was sent to the Urals to organize cells of the Bolshevik wing of the RSDLP here. He took the most direct part in creating the RSDLP combat brigades in the Ural cities, planned and coordinated their activities. In October, 1905, the 20-year-old Sverdlov, headed the Ekaterinburg Council of Workers' Deputies. He was arrested several times, but his punishments were mild. For example, 31 of March 1910 of Sverdlov was sent to 3 of the year in Narymsky Krai, but after three months he fled from there. In 1911, he was again arrested and given a link again - to the same place, in the Narym region, but for four years. In the Narym Territory, Sverdlov served a link with Joseph Dzhugashvili.

But in December 1912, Jacob Sverdlov fled again. In February, 1913, both Sverdlov and Stalin, were arrested and deported to the Turukhansk region. Yakov Sverdlov was there until the 1917 year. Freed Sverdlov, like many other prominent Bolsheviks, the February Revolution. And immediately after, he met Vladimir Ilyich Lenin and was appointed head of the Secretariat of the Central Committee of the RSDLP (b). So Jacob Sverdlov became one of the most influential members of the Bolshevik leadership, taking control of all the organizational affairs of the party, including such an important direction as the placement of personnel for leadership positions.

In fact, Lenin knowingly drew attention to Sverdlov. A young man with solid experience in underground work, Jacob was distinguished by a phenomenal memory and brilliant organizational skills. He knew everything about everyone, remembered everyone and possessed an invaluable gift to recommend exactly the right people for specific positions. That is, as a "personnel officer" and "manager" of the party leadership, Yakov Sverdlov was an indispensable person. Incidentally, this was also recognized by Lenin himself after the death of Sverdlov. Memory, organizational skills and responsible post quickly turned Sverdlov into the “gray cardinal” of the Bolshevik party, and then of Soviet Russia. Even before the October Revolution, Sverdlov became one of the leaders of the Bolshevik Party and played a very important role in the preparation of October. In particular, it was Sverdlov who personally organized Lenin’s transition to the underground position, transporting him to the shelter at the Razliv station near Sestroretsk. Then Sverdlov provided Lenin's departure to Finland. At the same time, Yakov Mikhailovich himself remained in Petrograd - he was in charge of coordinating the activities of the Bolsheviks, and continued to build the organizational vertical of the party. It was Sverdlov who personally controlled the creation and staffing of the Petrograd Military Revolutionary Committee, sending in it responsible Bolsheviks.

Almost immediately after the victory of the October Revolution, November 8 1917, Yakov Sverdlov was appointed chairman of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies, replacing the first head of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee Lev Kamenev. Now, from building the party vertical, he moved on to the organization of Soviet power — both “above” and in the field. It was Sverdlov who developed the foundations of the organization model of governing the Soviet state, which remained unchanged for decades. Interestingly, the party leadership initially considered both the Central Executive Committee and its chairman as purely technical tools that ensured the implementation of the party course. However, Yakov Sverdlov had his own point of view. He claimed the political role of the Central Executive Committee, sought to play a more important role in the management of the Soviet state than the one that was intended for the Central Executive Committee in the plans of the Bolshevik leadership. Sverdlov headed the commission to draft the first Constitution of the RSFSR. Thus, the first of its constitution, the Soviet state was also obliged, above all, to Jacob Sverdlov.



Sverdlov’s political position regarding the implementation of revolutionary transformations was distinguished by a well-known radicalism. To begin with, Sverdlov was an uncompromising supporter of harsh revolutionary violence. He stood behind the many brutal actions of the Bolsheviks in 1918-1919. In particular, it was Sverdlov who was the first to set a course for dividing the village into poor people and kulaks, which suggested further repressive measures against the latter. Of course, they did not immediately follow, but the vector was laid precisely by Sverdlov.

The “storytelling” plan also largely belongs to Yakov Sverdlov. It is known that the chairman of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee was extremely negative about Cossacks. Having rejected the emotional perception of history, this can also be understood - as is well known, the Cossacks and in the suppression of the revolutionary speeches of 1905-1907. they took the most active part, and in their large part quite negatively reacted to the October Revolution. But Yakov Sverdlov did not simply propose the liquidation of counter-revolutionary representatives of the Cossacks. He put forward large-scale ideas of the complete eradication of the Cossacks with the expropriation of their lands, i.e. - the transformation of the entire ethnic and even economic structure of the territories traditionally inhabited by the Cossacks. The rich lands on the Don, Kuban, Terek Sverdlov proposed to settle the “poor”, after having “cleared” them from the Cossack population. But after all, the Cossacks are not only horsemen with whips, dispersing demonstrations. These are peaceful workers, old men, women and children. It turns out that Sverdlov wanted to get rid of them?

Sverdlov has always been an ardent supporter of the "red terror", reprisals against representatives of the "exploiting classes." It was he who was behind the organization of the execution of the royal family in Yekaterinburg. The Romanov family was transported to Ekaterinburg in April-May 1918 of the year and placed in the Ipatievs house under armed guard. Apparently, at first, the Bolshevik leadership had not yet made a single decision on what to do with the arrested Romanovs. Most likely, Jacob Sverdlov was the direct initiator of the destruction of the royal family. The fact that Sverdlov’s position “won out” is evidenced, firstly, by the fact that the royal family was brought to Sverdlov’s “patrimony” - Yekaterinburg, and secondly - one very important appointment for the subsequent development of events. 4 July 1918, the royal family guard in the Ipatievs mansion was handed over to Yakovsky Yurovsky, a member of the board of the Urals Regional Cheka. The forty-year-old Yankel Yurovsky was not just a Chekist, but a close friend, from the pre-revolutionary period, a friend of Yakov Sverdlov. The all-powerful chairman of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee fully trusted Yurovsky and could entrust him with the most important tasks. Among the performers was Pavel Zakharovich Yermakov - another long-time acquaintance of Sverdlov from the fighting squads of Yekaterinburg. On the night of 16 on 17 on July 1918, the Romanov family, doctor Botkin and three servants were shot in the basement of the Ipatiev mansion.

The events in Yekaterinburg were only the beginning of a big “red terror”, the occasion for the start of which soon appeared beautiful. 30 August 1918, a meeting of workers was held at the Michelson plant in Moscow. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin spoke on it. After the rally in the yard of the enterprise, he was wounded by several shots. Almost immediately at the tram stop near the enterprise Fanny Kaplan was arrested, who confessed to the attempted assassination of the Bolshevik leader. She was shot 3 September 1918, in the courtyard of the armored corps of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee. The order for the execution of Kaplan was given orally by Yakov Sverdlov himself. He also initiated the start of the “Red Terror” announced by 5 of September of 1918. The story of the assassination attempt on Lenin is generally very dark. While Vladimir Ilyich was being treated for injuries, Yakov Sverdlov concentrated in his hands the full extent of the executive power. He managed to prevent the election of the interim acting chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR and carried out these duties personally, having combined the leadership of the SNK and the All-Russian Central Executive Committee in his hands. Sverdlov moved to Lenin's office, signed documents for him, that is, he felt himself the absolute master of Soviet Russia.



Most likely, the excessive strengthening of Sverdlov’s positions in the Bolshevik leadership was the cause of his strange and very early death. 6 March 1919, Jacob Sverdlov left Kharkov for Moscow. According to the official version, it was on the way to Moscow that he fell ill with the “Spanish flu” - the Spanish flu, the epidemic of which occurred just in the 1918-1919 years. Around the world at this time from the “Spanish” died from 50 to 100 million people. Russia was no exception - there were also a lot of people suffering from “Spaniard”, the number of those who died from this disease by the year 1920 reached three million. There was nothing surprising in the fact that “Spaniard” could have become ill even by Jacob Sverdlov himself, especially since Sverdlov was not distinguished by his good health. When 8 March 1919, Sverdlov returned to Moscow, he was already in serious condition. The fact that "Comrade Sverdlov" is seriously ill, was officially reported by 9 March 1919 of the year. It is interesting that Yakov Mikhailovich was treated not at the Kremlin clinic, but at home. And Vladimir Ilyich Lenin himself, who had not yet recovered from the consequences of his injury, came to visit him. What did this visit mean? Did Lenin not be afraid to get sick himself "Spaniard"? Or did you want to get some supervaluable information from Yakov Mikhailovich?



March 16, 1919 33-year-old Yakov Mikhailovich Sverdlov died. March 18, 1919 he was buried near the Kremlin wall. These were the first such large-scale funerals of the Soviet leader of the highest rank, which laid the foundation for the further tradition of “Kremlin funerals” that accompanied the entire history of the Soviet state. With the death of Sverdlov, many prominent Bolsheviks who could claim the role of Lenin's successors lost an influential and very dangerous rival. Perhaps it is precisely in the desire to free the party from the too active “personnel officer”, who gradually turned into a leader, that the roots of the sudden illness and rapid death of Yakov Mikhailovich Sverdlov are rooted. Yakov Sverdlov, who died at the very beginning of the existence of the Soviet state, was almost immediately after his death turned into a symbolic figure. The name of Sverdlov was called cities, streets and squares, enterprises, ships of the Navy fleet USSR and civilian fleet.

By the way, the son of Yakov Sverdlov, Andrei Yakovlevich Sverdlov (1911-1969), worked all his life in the state security bodies of the USSR, rising to the rank of colonel and the post of deputy head of the 2 section of the Main Department of the Ministry of State Security of the USSR. He miraculously managed to avoid political repressions of the end of 1930, and then suspicion of involvement in the “Stalinist cleansing” after debunking the personality cult (many high-ranking state security officials were arrested and shot).
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  1. +28
    27 September 2017
    Stake in the grave of this man ... for the massacres of the Russian population ... this YAKOV has his hands to the elbow in the blood of my people.
    1. +17
      27 September 2017
      Yes, what do you know about this person. Primitive !! ?? Go. Better hit your Yeltsin.
      1. +9
        27 September 2017
        The ICH, for this kind of anti-Soviet and Nazi propaganda, is mainly drowned by those with higher VOShnikov’s titles, and among people of pro-Soviet views, they are lower. It seems that there are much fewer adequate people on this resource than these people here: kolmogilu - safegold - Jewish bastards - Germans, etc.
        "Coincidence? I do not think!" (C) No.
        1. +6
          27 September 2017
          From reports on punitive shares for the period from September 1 to September 20:

          In the village of Chamlykskaya - 23 people were shot
          Labinskaya village - 42 people were shot
          In the village of Kabardinskaya - fired by artillery fire, 8 houses were burned.
          In the village of Guria - hostages were taken, the village was fired by artillery fire.
          Artillery fire fired at the Kuban farm. Chichibaba Farm and Armenian Farm completely burned -
          In the village of Bzhedukhovskaya - 60 houses were burned.
          In the village of Psebayskaya - 48 people were shot.
          The village. Khanskaya - 100 people were shot, property was confiscated. Families of bandits go deep into Russia.


          Digging deeper ...
          I don’t think a coincidence ...
          such as the Seeker and drown the members of the forum ... although I do not allow myself to insult the members of the forum for any reason ... turn your righteous anger in a fair way. hi
        2. +4
          27 September 2017
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          for this kind of anti-Soviet and Nazi propaganda, they are mostly drowned by those with higher VOShnikov’s ranks, and among people of pro-Soviet views, they are lower

          But doesn’t it bother you that most Russophobes usually have one nation? What then, what now? And you do not need to put the anti-Soviet with the Nazis on one level. Do you share the Bolsheviks with the Mensheviks? wink
          And of all the leaders of the Bolsheviks, only Stalin is worthy of respect. Moreover, he and Lenin had BIG disagreements. hi
          1. +2
            27 September 2017
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            And of all the leaders of the Bolsheviks, only Stalin is worthy of respect.

            What is he worthy of? As the proverb says - "The same cabbage soup, pour a little thinner". For many years a man hobbled with Leibs and Aarons - sat in links with them, ate from one bowl. Well, he didn’t recognize what kind of people they were? He recognized everything, just the same himself - an opportunist and a Christ seller.
            1. +2
              28 September 2017
              Quote: Fenrir48
              He recognized everything, just the same himself - an opportunist and a Christ seller.

              Well, you .... so loud about yourself .. not worth it. You are still in a decent society.
          2. +3
            28 September 2017
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            And of all the leaders of the Bolsheviks, only Stalin is worthy of respect. Moreover, he and Lenin had BIG disagreements.

            Sir, you deigned to lie.
        3. 0
          27 September 2017
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          It seems that there are much fewer adequate people on this resource

          request
          http://litafor.ru/i/a/style01/017/663/17663.png
      2. +5
        27 September 2017
        Yes, what do you know about this person. Primitive !! ?? Go. Better hit your Yeltsin.


        We pass on to the distinguished person ... ah ah ah ... I try not to allow myself that. hi
      3. +6
        27 September 2017
        Go. Better hit your Yeltsin.


        This Yeltsin is yours ... and not mine ... do not smack nonsense and please, without insults. hi
    2. +5
      27 September 2017
      Quote: The same Lech
      Stake in the grave of this man ... for the massacres of the Russian population ... this YAKOV has his hands to the elbow in the blood of my people.

      Definitely and without options!
  2. +13
    27 September 2017
    A lot of new, not coinciding with what I read in other sources. Nemtsov (is he alone?) On which side had family ties with this clan? And what about the brother-banker in the United States, whose bank was covered after the death of Sverdlov? And what about Sverdlov’s famous safe with a recipient of precious metals and stones products, diplomatic passports? A lot of questions or all the slander myths? For example, telegrams about an assassination attempt, what takes power one hour before the message arrives?
    Sverdlov’s assistant took Sverdlov’s cousin’s girlfriend from the Cheka and took him to the Kremlin, where they shot her and burned her in a kerosene barrel? Sverdlov is a legendary person of all the revolutionaries. And yet I would like to know the truth what happened in Russia, around Russia, against Russia over the past 100 years, at least. The grandson will grow up, start asking questions, but I have to explain everything to him. winked Yes request
    1. +7
      27 September 2017
      Quote: Balu
      And yet I would like to know the truth what happened in Russia, around Russia, against Russia over the past 100 years, at least

      Until the archives of the Sanhedrin are declassified, we will not know anything. But if we do not manage our fate ourselves, then there will be no one to find out.
      1. +6
        27 September 2017
        And without the archives of the Sanhedrin, no way. And what do you want to see there. How many silver coins did Kaaf send to Pontius Pilate.
    2. +17
      27 September 2017
      Quote: Balu
      Sverdlov’s famous safe with a recipient of precious metals and stones, diplomatic passports

      Another delusional anti-Soviet bike - allegedly in the 30s they found UNSKY in the warehouse! Sverdlov’s safe, in which there were gold and jewelry hundreds of kg, passports for different names, and other documents.
      For the gifted I’ll explain - when ANY leader leaves his post (no matter how - he dies, goes to prison, goes missing, etc.), the first thing that is done is to open his safe. Especially if one of the leaders of the state leaves the post.
      And according to the anti-Soviet rumor, they didn’t open the safe, then dragged this heavy crap somewhere to the warehouse (at the same time, something falls, makes noise, rings), and then they completely forgot for a dozen and a half years fool
      Reminds a story about the terrifying Leninist GUIDANCE numbered 13666 laughing laughing laughing
      1. +12
        27 September 2017
        Ober-lieutenant Alexei, this “delusional anti-Soviet bike” as you put it has a reason: back in the Soviet Union, the act of opening Sverdlov’s safe was published. The extension was stored in the Museum of the October Revolution; by the way, many documents from the category of those that you consider to be “anti-Soviet tales” were stored there. It turns out originally: the employees of this museum carefully kept "anti-Soviet stories" and did not know that these were fakes.
        1. +3
          27 September 2017
          Quote: Monarchist
          back in the Soviet Union, the act of opening the safe of Sverdlov was published

          Don’t give a reference?
          Threat Mr. Monarchizd, but why did I suddenly become lieutenant? request I was an ordinary person in the RA, I didn’t even reach the corporal (clean shoulder straps - a clear conscience laughing ) Yes, and VO-Schnikov’s titles do not seem to include all Ober-lieutenants, and other corporal-colonels, or whatever.
        2. +2
          27 September 2017
          Well then, you are a lieutenant colonel Monarchist. A link to your FALSE !!! statements.
    3. +3
      27 September 2017
      That Nemtsov somehow did not touch the Sverdlovs sideways.
      1. +1
        27 September 2017
        in the 16th tribe all in the world are relatives
        and in 5-6 --- a high probability
  3. +14
    27 September 2017
    Dear Ilya, you did not say anything in the article about the documents that were found in Sverdlov’s safe after his death. I mean foreign passports. Why the hell did he need them? Information was also missing on the family ties between Sverdlov and Bronstein, who had arrived on petition from the United States in Petrograd with militants to seize power in the city. And you missed the rumor among the people of 1918: "Soviet power rests in Russia on Jewish minds, Latvian arrows and Russian fools." I have the honor.
    1. +16
      27 September 2017
      Quote: midshipman
      You did not say anything in the article about the documents that were found in Sverdlov’s safe after his death. I mean foreign passports. Why the hell did he need them?

      The boy is smart, he was preparing sidings for himself and his family. The version that Sverdlov "kept the cash desk" of the Bolsheviks is doubtful. And then, under the EBN, publication began how the Bolshevik opponents of Stalin plundered Gokhran and were then repressed by him in the 30s. Somehow quickly covered up the publication. And it would be useful for the people to know the truth, first of all, for those who loudly crowed "Stalin the executioner." Stalin forced the Bolsheviks-corrupt officials to return something because of the river. All the same, who dares to tell the truth?
    2. +6
      27 September 2017
      Why do you ask for a passport. Yes, because the Bolsheviks are an international gangster cartel. With the international, the Comintern and other nasty things.
    3. +13
      27 September 2017
      Quote: midshipman
      "Soviet power rests in Russia on Jewish minds, Latvian arrows and Russian fools"

      No luck to the Russians. In the eighteenth year of the last century, one hundred combat zidas, children of shopkeepers and pharmacists, and merchants of every trifle seized power in Rasea. And there were those zidas of unprecedented strength, military talent of unheard of and the amount of unscrupulous. And those zidas drove the glorious Russian army and no less glorious Cossacks with pissed rags all the way to the city to Paris and even further. One zid for a million Russian heroes came out, but the Russians did not make it, did not save the tsar-priest, gave the Zidas a scolding and destroyed the thousand-year-old Russian Orthodox Church, the church was destroyed, the daughters of the priest were seized and the great spoilage was born, from which a new mighty Rus was born, but already with the Bolsheviks, and the Russian patriots and glorious Cossacks for the time being were underground, gaining strength, and forelocks were growing. And then their time came again, all the zidas perished, draped into their Israel and America, and again the turn came to the glorious Russian patriotic movement of priests and communists in one bottle.
      Lenin, hell, lies in Mausoleum, behind bulletproof glass, so that the enemies do not kill, but even then at night the propeller turns from such a bow of suckers and scammers.
      1. +8
        27 September 2017
        when I read here all the children accusing the Jews of all the revolutions, conspiracies and troubles of Russia, I have a question - why do you humiliate yourself like that? Why do you value yourself and your people so little and the Jews so high? like a bunch of "semi-literate Jewish children from the province destroyed the great Russian empire"? Do you consider yourself stupider than the Jews? where does this inferiority complex come from?
        blaming all the problems on the "mighty Jewish conspirators" means simultaneously humiliating ourselves.
        I do not consider myself more stupid than the Jews, I do not blame them for all sins, I do not want anything from them and do not owe anything to them. the same applies to all others, including Russians.
        although no - I owe Russian to knowledge of the Russian language and place of birth smile
        1. +1
          27 September 2017
          but what did you want? that they admitted that they are stupid lazy and other? not ... naughty .. ash stump that the Jews are to blame. but not your own laziness and stupidity ...
        2. +1
          27 September 2017
          Quote: vlad_vlad
          blaming all the problems on the "mighty conspirators of the Jews" means simultaneously humiliating themselves

          Why, then, only to the Jews-there is a trash from all nations noted. Georgians, Poles, Greeks, Armenians, German intelligence, Jewish American homes - Schiffs and others. The bastards are in order. And besides, with a lot of money. But how much does it take to sink a country that has strained all its forces in the world war? No, not a lot.
          1. +2
            27 September 2017
            really ... especially when you consider that at the helm of the country was a typically Russian tsar by the name of Gottorp-Holstein .. well, you can’t understand this so stubbornly ...
            1. +1
              27 September 2017
              Quote: Long in stock.
              by the name of Gottorp-Holstein.

              Indeed ... The Romanovs had such a name only in your proletarian imagination.
              It’s time by the way to start using capital letters - after all, you are not a pioneer.
              1. +1
                27 September 2017
                I’m just too lazy to press the caps .. and about Romanov, well, so you like to find out how much and what kind of blood someone had .. here and take an interest .. at the same time I’m waiting from your brethren for any evidence that Lenin is a German spy. presented ...
                1. +1
                  28 September 2017
                  Quote: Long in stock.
                  at the same time, I’m waiting from your brethren for any evidence that Lenin is a German spy

                  He is not a spy. It was simply used by German intelligence, as their goals coincided. But if the goals of a citizen of a state va coincide with the goals of the enemies of that state, then it is clear what the price of this citizen is.
                  So wait further.
                  Quote: Long in stock.
                  to this you like to find out how much and what kind of blood did anyone have

                  I like to find out how much Jewish blood was in Comrade Ulyanov, from Mother Blanca.
        3. 0
          April 21 2018
          If not Russian, take your "semi-literate children from the province" and go to a remote kibbutz
    4. +7
      27 September 2017
      Quote: midshipman
      I have the honor.

      Your Honor, which regiment served, sir?
      1. +12
        27 September 2017
        I had to serve a lot and for a long time. Father died on the Leningrad Front on January 27, 1941. He grew up an orphan. From 1953 to 1957, a cadet. After graduating from secondary school he was sent to study further. In 1963, he began work at the research institute. Like Ch. the designer created a number of weapons and military equipment, which are now in service. Hot spots:! 972 year Egypt, 1985 year Angola, 1988 year Afghanistan. From 1978 to 1989, he was the Head of the State Institution of one of the nine Defense Ministries. Currently, Scientific Secretary of the Research Institute, Head of the Department of the University. The rank was. I have the honor
        1. +3
          27 September 2017
          midshipman
          You are so smart and well-deserved, but on such a site you want to spend time!
          And for the "1972 year Egypt" I have to hit the SHABAK, get ready, they will soon come for you.
          1. +9
            27 September 2017
            Uh, ale, stop, bro! You are a man who suits you as a grandfather not ham!
            1. 0
              27 September 2017
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              Uh, ale, stop, bro! You are a man who suits you as a grandfather not ham!

              That Jew jokes like that ... In Hebrew ...)))
          2. +4
            28 September 2017
            get ready, they will come soon for you.

            muck said and rejoice .. negative
        2. +7
          27 September 2017
          The trouble with the “dear Russians” including the “Scientific Secretaries of the Research Institute” is that they have the right hemisphere of the brain in irreconcilable hostility with the left.
          So you first write "" Soviet power rests in Russia on Jewish minds, Latvian arrows and Russian fools, "and then" I had to serve a lot and for a long time. Father died on the Leningrad Front on January 27, 1941. "
          Nothing bothers you here? Think, the question is complicated. Only the "Head of the Department of the University" will be able to handle ....
          1. +6
            27 September 2017
            My colleague, in general, is confused by the mention of my father in this context. The figure is that you can make a mistake, forgive, bring to the place and not very own merits, the same thing, but the deceased is not an icon, why wrestle the memory of him?
            1. +4
              27 September 2017
              Quote: avva2012
              My colleague, in general, is confused by the mention of my father in this context. The figure is that you can make a mistake, forgiven, bring to the place and not very own merits, the same, but the deceased is not an icon, why shatter his memory

              I agree, but the chaos in my head upsets me the most.
              Well, how can you simultaneously talk about the "Jewish militants" who are going to establish Soviet power and that you have served this Soviet government in leadership positions for decades, and your father died defending the USSR as part of the Red Army.
              Indeed, it turns out that Mr. Michman’s right hand does not know what the left is doing. And this is already important for the current reality. If you have chaos in your head, it’s very easy to deceive you (even if you’re a “scientific secretary”) and it’s easy to manipulate you.
              1. +4
                27 September 2017
                I think the "scientific secretary" is trying to manipulate himself. "Daughter of an officer", this is a completed stage, apparently. Now it’s not 2014, it is necessary to comply, moreover, in the “Soviet” trend. It "works" perfectly: Chief designer of a number of weapons and military equipment, cadet, developer, hot spots (G?). Of course, there are exceptions, when suddenly a person realizes that he gave his life to the country that the Jews created, protected by Latvians, and smart Russians worked, but such an awareness rarely passes without health consequences. Whether this is so or otherwise, we are not given to understand. If, only, the government does not change the guidelines and does not help to find answers.
            2. +7
              27 September 2017
              Alexander, slow down, for God's sake! This man is a living legend of domestic aviation instrumentation.
              1. +3
                27 September 2017
                A legend, so a legend, just carefully consider the words starting, “I gave my life ...” It doesn’t happen that an adult changes radically life guidelines. Moreover, the legend.
                1. +4
                  27 September 2017
                  Alexander, really, is a man of 79 years old, he worked with Ilyushin, he launched the "Energy", he gave a half-way guidance system a ticket to life ... And so, in 79 you reckon with your finger in the "clave"?
                  1. +1
                    28 September 2017
                    Anton, if I had joined the party in my youth, sincerely, considered myself a communist, I would first of all be ashamed to write such a thing before myself. Just a shame, understand?
                2. +1
                  28 September 2017
                  Doctor, I will join Anton! stop
                  1. +1
                    28 September 2017
                    Nikolay, did I insult someone? I wrote about two possible options for what I saw in a user comment. It is an insult? And, I do not understand, do you personally know him? Why so sure that this person is who he claims to be? Maybe I missed something and there was one hundred percent identification of this person under the corresponding nickname? Tell me then if it does not bother you. Here on the forum or in PM. Thanks.
                    1. +2
                      28 September 2017
                      Why so sure that this person is who he claims to be?

                      But do you seriously, Alexander, think that a person who disguised himself with invented achievements and a pedigree would have survived the site for a long time? The site has a bunch of his articles. Or did he write another? what or here - not Yu.G. Shatrakov, and the cunning troll, disguised as a designer? "Forgive me, violinist, but this is frank ku" No. (the film "Kin-Dza-Dza").
                      in your opinion, in PM, so in PM. Yes
                      1. 0
                        28 September 2017
                        Nikolai, as they say, read above, "apparently, I missed something ...". That is, for the "daughter of an officer", I take my words back and apologize, but for the second part of my comment, no.
                        It is excusable for trolls to write about brains, bayonets and Russians, and not to a person. For your words you must answer first of all to yourself. And so, it looks sad.
              2. +1
                27 September 2017
                These they don’t slow down, they have devastation in their heads, and they also talk about some kind of power and guidelines.
                1. +2
                  28 September 2017
                  Read the book that I advised you. Try to stand for a short time on the side of those about whom she is. If nothing in your worldview changes, then, then, you are one of these, with a devastation. Just not in the head.
                  1. +1
                    28 September 2017
                    Quote: avva2012
                    If your worldview hasn’t changed,

                    We are of the same worldview, you yourself have told about yourself, in great detail. And then what book to read? she’s also alone. It’s not clear.
                    1. 0
                      28 September 2017
                      Tarasov B.Yu. Russia is serfdom. The history of national slavery.
                      M .: Veche, 2011. 320 sec - (Secrets of the Russian Empire). I'm about her. You can hate the Bolsheviks, but again, it surprises me that the peasants left someone after the Revolution. Our people really have a big heart.
                      1. +1
                        28 September 2017
                        Quote: avva2012
                        It surprises me that the peasants left someone after the Revolution.

                        ???????? !!!!!!
      2. +2
        27 September 2017
        Your Honor, which regiment served, sir

        read the modern charter, it says in what cases this expression is used.
        1. +3
          27 September 2017
          Instead of goodbye or something.
          1. +2
            27 September 2017
            Outside the ranks, officers can address each other not only by military rank, but also by
            name and patronymic. In everyday life, officers are allowed to use the affirmative
            the expression "officer’s word" and when parting with each other is allowed instead of the words "goodbye"
            say "I have the honor."
        2. +4
          27 September 2017
          So we are not in the army, and the midshipman doesn’t seem to leave, but this is his “honor I have” - he constantly inserts unnecessarily request
          1. +6
            27 September 2017
            And he really has the honor, unlike you!
            1. 0
              30 September 2017
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              unlike you!

              Justify?
    5. +1
      27 September 2017
      only "fools" did not want to live anymore under the right ones
  4. +8
    27 September 2017
    "Jews, Jews, only Jews around ..."
  5. +8
    27 September 2017
    It looks like V.I. Lenin shot himself ... wink
  6. +12
    27 September 2017
    Again, the Trotskyists are given out as Bolsheviks ... sad
    People! The Bolsheviks are those who defend the interests of the majority. They, by definition, cannot destroy those whose interests they defend. The Trotskyists are engaged in the extermination of the people, who today are trying to pass off the genocide of the Russian people as acts of the Bolsheviks, thereby transferring the blame on the Bolshevik Stalin as well. Not by washing, so by skating our enemies continue to carry out de-Stalinization. It didn’t work right away, we went around ...
    1. +4
      27 September 2017
      Quote: Boris55
      Bolsheviks are those who defend the interests of the majority

      Boris, you are wrong! laughing Even before the revolution, one of the differences of opinion between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks was that the Bolsheviks called for wider use of terrorist methods, and the Mensheviks were political. And what is the name of the conduct of terrorist attacks in a warring country? wink
      1. +3
        27 September 2017
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Even before the revolution, one of the divergences of the views of the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks was that Bolsheviks called for wider use of terrorist methodsand the Mensheviks are political.

        I hope you will provide us with documents confirming this?
        1. +6
          27 September 2017
          It’s easier for you to type “differences between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks” in Google. But if you are interested in specifics, then are the links from the complete works of Lenin suitable?
          August 29 (September 11), 1906
          "S.-d. The press has long (the old Iskra) pointed out that the merciless extermination of civil and military commanders is our duty during the uprising <...> And that partisan war, that mass terror that has been going on in Russia everywhere almost continuously since December, will undoubtedly help to teach the masses the correct tactics at the time of the uprising. The Social Democracy must recognize and accept this mass terror in its tactics. Of course, organizing and controlling it "
          (Lenin, PSS, t. 13, p. 373, 375).
          1. 0
            27 September 2017
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Social Democracy I must recognize and embrace this mass terror in my tactics.

            And what does the Social Democrat Lenin have to do with the Bolsheviks at that time? laughing
            1. +7
              27 September 2017
              The main split occurred in 1903, and Lenin belonged specifically to the Bolsheviks and professed the ideology of the Bolsheviks. The rest is secondary. You can play with words for a long time, but the essence will be one.hi
            2. +1
              27 September 2017
              Quote: Boris55
              And what does the Social Democrat Lenin have to do with the Bolsheviks at that time?

              What??? Did you learn a story, or something! Although the basics! RSDLP (b) - Russian Social Democratic Party (Bolsheviks). And we are talking about 1905-1907. With such, damn it, "defenders", and no enemies!
        2. +2
          27 September 2017
          Quote: HanTengri
          documents confirming this

          I continue -
          October 16 (29), 1905
          “Let detachments from 3 to 10, up to 30, etc. be immediately organized. man. Let them immediately arm themselves, some with a revolver, some with a knife, some with a rag with kerosene for arson, etc. <…> Preachers should give each team a short and simple recipe for bombs, an elementary story about all types of work, and then leave all the activities to them. The detachments must immediately begin military training on immediate operations, immediately. Some will immediately undertake the murder of a spy, blowing up a police station, others - an attack on a bank to confiscate funds for the uprising <...> do not be afraid of these trial attacks, They can, of course, degenerate to an extreme, but this is the trouble of tomorrow, but today the trouble is in our inertia, in our doctrinaire, learned immobility, senile fear of initiative. Let each detachment learn by itself, at least by beating the policemen "
          (Lenin, PSS, vol. 11, p. 336, 337, 338).
          later on October 16 (29), 1905
          “The tasks of the detachments of the revolutionary army <...> The detachments must arm themselves with what they can (a gun, revolver, bomb, knife, brass knuckles, stick, rag with kerosene for arson <...> pyroxylin checker, barbed wire, nails (against cavalry) <... > Even without weapons, detachments can play a very serious role: <...> 4) climbing to the top of houses, upper floors, etc. and showering the army with stones, pouring boiling water, etc. <...> The preparatory [work - G.Kh.] includes obtaining any weapons <...> (acids for pouring over the police) <...> as soon as possible proceed to military operations, in order <...> to obtain funds for the uprising (confiscation of government funds) <...> To launch attacks, under favorable conditions, is not only the right, but also the direct duty of every revolutionary. Murder of spies, policemen, gendarmes, explosions of police stations <...> the seizure of government funds <...> Detachments of the revolutionary army must <...> act in armed force, beating the Black Hundreds, killing them, blowing up their headquarters, etc. etc."
          (Lenin, PSS, vol. 11, p. 339, 340, 341).
          1. +2
            27 September 2017
            That is, the whole Bolshevik "terrorism" occurs within the framework of the revolution of 1905-1907? And, EMNIP, with its end "suddenly" ends? Nothing supernatural. Like a gritsa: "In war, as in war." ...
            1. +2
              27 September 2017
              Quote: HanTengri
              That is, the whole Bolshevik "terrorism" occurs within the framework of the revolution of 1905-1907?

              Rebellion, not revolution. A revolution is called a revolution only after victory. hi
              1. +3
                27 September 2017
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Rebellion, not revolution. A revolution is called a revolution only after victory.


                Treason doth never prosper, what's the reason?
                For if it prosper, none dare call it Treason. ”
                - John Harrington
                ("Rebellion cannot end in success,
                Otherwise, his name is different. ”
                - Samuel Marshak)

                The revolution, though. For the bourgeois "rebellion" ( laughing ) 1905-1907 , partially, he achieved his goals. The authorities made concessions. (Parliament and all that ...) And, if the Holy, passionate-hearted Matildofil had at least a little talent for governing the State and continued reforms, neither February nor October 1917 would have happened. hi
                1. +2
                  28 September 2017
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  And, if, the Holy, passionate Matildofil had at least a little talent for governing the State and continued reforms, neither February nor October 1917 would have happened.

                  I absolutely agree with this. But it was not only about the reforms - it was necessary to be tougher. Carrot and stick, carrot and stick. And he offered gingerbread cookies and .... snot. And got into the war, half-fool. request
                  1. +1
                    28 September 2017
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    But it was not only about the reforms - it was necessary to be tougher. Carrot and stick, carrot and stick.

                    I agree. But reform is still more important. Broad bourgeois reforms would eliminate the roots of much of the discontent. Well, of course, it was also necessary to tighten the nuts so that those who, in joy, decided that from the government it is now possible to twist the ropes, at least somehow bring them to life.
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    And he offered gingerbread cookies and .... snot.

                    Not gingerbread cookies, but gingerbread (hell pieces). And he tried, slowly, to push it back. laughing
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    And got into the war, half-fool.

                    And how he got into Russian-Japanese ... Well, in general, a song! https://oper.ru/video/view.php?t=1585
      2. +3
        27 September 2017
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Boris, you are wrong!

        "... Bolshevism - This is not a Russian variety of Marxism and not party affiliation. And the “Jewish Bolshevism" used by Hitler in Mine Campf is completely meaningless, since Bolshevism is a phenomenon of the spirit of Russian civilization, and not the spirit of the bearers of the doctrine of biblical global slavery on a racial basis.
        Bolshevism existed before Marxism, existed in Russian Marxism, somehow it exists today. It will continue to exist.
        As stated by the Bolsheviks themselves, members of the Marxist party of the RSDLP * (b), it was they who expressed in politics the strategic interests of the working majority of the population of multinational Russia, as a result of which only they had the right to be called Bolsheviks. Regardless of how infallible the Bolsheviks are in expressing the strategic interests of the labor majority, how much this majority is aware of its strategic interests and true to them in life, the essence of Bolshevism is not the numerical superiority of the adherents of certain ideas over the adherents of other ideas and the thoughtless crowd, namely this:
        in a sincere desire to express and implement the long-term strategic interests of the working majority, who wants no one to parasitize on his work and life. In other words, historically, in every era, the essence of Bolshevism is in the active support of the transition process from the historically established crowd of “elitism” to the multinational humanity of the Earth of the future era.

        Menshevism accordingly, it is the opposite of Bolshevism, since it objectively expresses the aspiration for parasitism in work and in the life of the common people - the majority - all who are aware of their “elitist” status. Marxism is Menshevism, and not just psychic Trotskyism; and psychic Trotskyism is always Menshevism ... "VP of the USSR.
        1. +7
          27 September 2017
          Quote: Boris55
          the phenomenon of the spirit of Russian civilization,

          Then where did Trotsky, Blyumkin, Uritsky, Sverdlov and others like them come from? And many Russian revolutionaries were married to Jewish women (the Esther affair lives on!) wink After all, even the Jewish newspapers of that time called the "Russian" Jewish revolution.
          That's what the American newspaper “Jewish Chronicle” writes from 4
          April 1919:
          “The fact that there are so many Jews among the Bolsheviks simply reflects the fact that ideas
          Bolshevism in many places are also the best ideas of Judaism. "

          Another American newspaper, American Hebrew, writes in
          September 20, 1920:
          “The Bolshevik revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains, Jewish
          dissatisfaction, Jewish planning, whose goal is to create a global
          Jewish order. The fact that in such an excellent way was performed in Russia,
          thanks to Jewish brains, Jewish dissatisfaction and Jewish
          planning, then, soon through the same Jewish mental and physical
          qualities will become a reality throughout the world. ”
          1. +4
            27 September 2017
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Then where did Trotsky, Blyumkin, Uritsky, Sverdlov and others like them come from?

            Look in the internet for what was the size of the Bolshevik party before the revolution and what it became after the revolution. How many parties joined its ranks and which, what percentage of the total number of parties after that were the Bolsheviks. Then you will find the answer to your question.

            Quote: Ingvar 72
            After all, even the Jewish newspapers of that time called the "Russian" Jewish revolution.

            On this issue, I do not argue. Only after the "Stalin draft" in the party of the 24 year, the number of Bolsheviks exceeded the number of Trotskyists. Trotsky himself was succeeded in expelling from Russia only in the 30 year. The followers of Trotskyism are still in power ...
            1. +4
              27 September 2017
              Quote: Boris55
              How many parties joined its ranks and which, what percentage of the total number of parties after that were the Bolsheviks.

              In other parties, the national question was the same as that of the Bolsheviks. It is enough to look at the composition of the Central Committee of parties by years. The organizers of the revolution did not lay eggs in one basket, and placed them on several parties at once. hi
          2. +1
            27 September 2017
            and that’s why the now famous 282 article was then called Jewish ... that’s the paradox: Jews in power put Jews for speculation ..
        2. +2
          27 September 2017
          Quote: Boris55
          Bolshevism existed before Marxism, existed in Russian Marxism, somehow it exists today. It will continue to exist.
          ............. Blah blah blah blah all sorts ............
          Menshevism accordingly, it is the opposite of Bolshevism, since it objectively expresses the aspiration for parasitism in work and in the life of the common people - the majority - all who are aware of their “elitist” status. Marxism is Menshevism, and not just psychic Trotskyism; and psychic Trotskyism is always Menshevism ... "VP of the USSR.

          Paragraph!!! What DB (s) (Lavrov) told you all this? (hand face)
          1. 0
            28 September 2017
            Quote: HanTengri
            What told you all this?

            There is a signature there - the USSR VP.
            1. +1
              28 September 2017
              Quote: Boris55
              EaP the USSR

              VP what kind of beast is this?
              1. 0
                28 September 2017
                Quote: HanTengri
                Quote: Boris55
                EaP the USSR

                VP what kind of beast is this?

                VP SSSP - Internal Predictor (corrector) of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
                http://wiki-kob.ru/%D0%92%D0%BD%D1%83%D1%82%D1%80
                %D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5
                %D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%A1%D0%A1
                % D0% A1% D0% A0
                1. +2
                  28 September 2017
                  Firstly, the following link:
                  Internal Speaker SS SR
                  There is currently no text on this page. You can find a mention of the name on other pages, or find related journal entries. You do not have permission to create this page.
                  Secondly, each "predictor" has a surname, name and patronymic. Call me? Or is it under the heading: "Top Secret. Burn before reading!"? lol
                  And thirdly - Maybe it's time to grow up and stop believing in Santa Claus, Predictor, Harry Potter and the Pasta monster?
                  1. 0
                    28 September 2017
                    Everything opens beautifully for me.
                    "... The emergence of the VP of the USSR
                    The concept of public safety in the scope of work in which it currently exists has been developed starting from 1987 g., a public initiative group that chose the name "Internal Predictor of the USSR" (VP USSR). Since then, the USSR as a state has disappeared, but the activity of a public initiative continues under the previous name, not only because it has become a kind of brand name, but also because the authors do not recognize (in the legal sense) the liquidation of the USSR pursuant to the directives of the “world behind the scenes” , Masons, the CIA and the US National Security Council.
                    In addition, the emergence of the “brand name” “Internal Predictor of the USSR” is a tribute to the authors of the specifics of public life in the USSR and the “mentality” of society in the late 1980's. Its appearance corresponded to the goals of the activity and the nature of the relationship between the authors and public institutions of the USSR and the rest of society in the specifics of that historical period. To act in the mode of “the authors' collective does not exist, the fruits of its activity - the native“ miracles of nature ”” seemed incorrect.
                    And the reasons for maintaining the regime of personal anonymity under the "brand name" of the authors team of the USSR Supreme Council should be clear to everyone who was able to experience tandem and political regimes in their activities: there is no place for personal copyrights and claims to the fruits of collective activity that are not formalized by the "staffing table" ”And“ official duties ”, as is customary in modern research institutes and design bureaus when conducting research and developing various kinds of projects. Other reasons not related to the collective nature of the work are explained in the very first paragraphs of the work of the USSR Supreme Council “Questions to the Metropolitan of St. Petersburg and Ladoga John and the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Church” (February 1994). .. "

                    BER does not imply belief in anyone or anything. Type in the search engine - BER and you will find a sea of ​​links.


                    If there are still questions - write in a personal.
                    1. +2
                      28 September 2017
                      Quote: Boris55
                      Everything opens beautifully for me.

                      So this problem is connected exclusively with my “Kizil Piyoz Collective Farm” (This is the Uzbek analogue of the Russian Mukho ..... I’m sorry. For the Russian analogs, I’ll be banned again). request
                      Quote: Boris55
                      The concept of public safety in the scope of work in which it exists to date has been developed since 1987,

                      Well, instead of BER, Marx and Lenin, you would read with Stalin, or something ... Maybe in a "pumpkin" that would be clarified ...
                      Quote: Boris55
                      elimination of the USSR in accordance with the directives of the “world behind the scenes”, Masonic lodges, the CIA and the US National Security Council.

                      I thought that, in the end, everything will end with songs in the style: "If there is no water in the tap ... (then KNOWN !!! WHO is to blame)!" laughing
                      1. 0
                        28 September 2017
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        You, instead of KOB, Marx and Lenin, with Stalin revered

                        And we read them:
                        "... Moreover, I think it’s necessary to discard some other concepts taken from Marx’s Capital, where Marx was engaged in the analysis of capitalism, and artificially glued to our socialist relations. I mean, by the way, such concepts, as "necessary" and "surplus" labor, "necessary" and "surplus" product, "necessary" and "surplus" working time. Marx analyzed capitalism in order to find out the source of exploitation of the working class, surplus value, and give the working class deprived of funds va, a spiritual weapon for overthrowing capitalism. It is clear that Marx uses the concepts (categories) that are quite consistent with capitalist relations, but it’s more than strange to use these concepts when the working class is not only without power and means of production, but, on the contrary, holds power is in its hands and owns the means of production. ”Now, under our system, the words about labor as a commodity and about the“ hiring ”of workers sound rather absurd: as if the working class, which owns the means of production, is its own aetsya himself and sells his labor-power. It is just as strange now to speak of “necessary” and “surplus” labor: as if labor in our conditions, given to society for expanding production, developing education, healthcare, organizing defense, etc., is not equally necessary for the working class now in power, as well as the labor expended to cover the personal needs of the worker and his family.

                        It should be noted that Marx in his work “Criticism of the Gotha Program”, where he explores not capitalism, but, incidentally, the first phase of a communist society, recognizes the labor devoted to society to expand production, education, healthcare, administrative expenses, reserves etc., as necessary as the labor expended to cover the consumer needs of the working class.

                        I think that our economists must put an end to this discrepancy between the old concepts and the new state of affairs in our socialist country, replacing the old concepts with new ones corresponding to the new situation. We could tolerate this discrepancy until a certain time, but now the time has come when we must finally eliminate this discrepancy..." hi
      3. +3
        27 September 2017
        but most of the terrorist attacks were carried out by the Socialist Revolutionaries ... does the name of the Savinkov speak about something?
    2. +1
      27 September 2017
      Are you serious or joking. I have not heard such an alternative definition of the Bolsheviks. And who are the Mensheviks in your opinion?
  7. +25
    27 September 2017
    Yes, and look like demons - that Trotsky, that Sverdlov
    The devils of hell on earth
    Chose Russia ..
    1. +7
      27 September 2017
      What Lenin what Dzerzhinsky what Stalin. This is the same gang.
      1. +9
        27 September 2017
        Quote: Ken71
        What Lenin what Dzerzhinsky what Stalin. This is the same gang.

        These are the people who built the world's first state of workers and peasants, which proved its right to coexist in the bloodiest war of the 20 century. Thanks to them, the colonial system collapsed in the world. The end of outright slavery has come.
        These are great people who have changed the whole world!
        1. +6
          27 September 2017
          It would be better if they did not touch the World. The world would have been goals.
          1. +4
            27 September 2017
            Quote: Ken71
            It would be better if they did not touch the World. The world would have been goals.

            Do you like such a world? Is parasitizing on someone else’s grief your creed?
            1. +4
              27 September 2017
              When they get personal, it means that there are doubts about their rightness. My motto does not concern you. If the Bolsheviks and those who joined them rotted through the prisons of the Russian Empire or the Russian Republic, then maybe the map would look a little different, although not a fact. But it is unlikely that the world would have learned about Pol Pot and other fighters with their peoples within the framework of communist ideology.
              1. 0
                27 September 2017
                Quote: Ken71
                When they get personal, it means that there are doubts about their rightness.

                Sami asked: "It would be better if they did not touch the World."
                Quote: Ken71
                and other fighters with their peoples within the framework of communist ideology.

                Communist ideology and the ideology of Bolshevism are not the same thing.
                "... Trotskyism - This is not at all one of the varieties of Marxism. A characteristic feature of Trotskyism in the communist movementthat acted in the twentieth century “under the hood” of Marxism, the Trotskyites were completely deaf to the content of the criticisms of 5 expressed to him, combined with their commitment to the principle of suppressing the declarations proclaimed by the Trotskyists in life, a system of defaults on the basis of which they really act, united in a collective unconscious.
                This means that Trotskyism is a psychic phenomenon. Trotskyism, in a sincere personal manifestation of the well-being of its adherents, is characterized by a conflict between the individual consciousness and the unconscious, both individual and collective, generated by all Trotskyists in their totality. And in this conflict the collective unconscious of the Trotskyists viciously triumphs, suppressing the personal conscious well-intentionedness of each of them by the totality of their all.
                This is a feature of the psyche of those who have managed to become a Trotskyist, and not a feature of a particular ideology. The psychic type of “Trotskyist” can be accompanied by a variety of ideologies. It is for this reason - of a purely psychological nature - that equal relations with Trotskyism and Trotskyists personally at the level of intellectual discussion, arguments and counterarguments are fruitless and dangerous. 6 for those who consider Trotskyism as one of the ideologies of 7 and do not see its real AML-ideological background, do not depending on the ideology that encircles it, which the psychotrocist can sincerely repeatedly change throughout his life 8.
                Intelligence, which is addressed in discussions in an effort to enlighten the interlocutor, or to identify with him the truth, on the basis of which it would be possible to overcome previous problems in relations with him, is only one component of the psyche as a whole. But the psyche as a whole (in the case of its Trotskyite type) does not allow the psycho-Trotskyist to process information intellectually, which is capable of changing the doctrine that is currently being worked out by that of many ideologically formed branches of Trotskyism, to which the psycho-Trotskyist psychologically belongs.
                This psychic feature of 9, characteristic of many individuals, is a historically more ancient phenomenon than the historically real Marxist Trotskyism in the 20th century communist movement. For this property of the psyche of individuals, there was no other word in the past besides the word "obsession." And in the era of the domination of the materialistic worldview, for this phenomenon there were no words in the language that corresponded to the essence of this type of mental impairment, which was called again, but not by its essence, but by the pseudonym of one of its most prominent representatives of Trotskyism in the 20th century communist movement.
                Trotskyism in its essence is a schizophrenic, aggressive, politically-active psyche that can hide behind any ideology, any sociological doctrine.
                Therefore, Marxism is originally an expression of psychic Trotskyism. Marx and Engels were psycho-Trotskyists. Hitler was also a psycho-Trotskyist: for the identity of the relation of Hitlerism and Marxism of the Trotsky version to many phenomena of society, see the work of the USSR Supreme Council “Look back in anger ...”. The anti-communist psychologists at the sunset of the USSR were dissidents. And now the majority of activists of bourgeois reforms in Russia and their opponents from the ranks of various patriotic parties and all supposedly communist parties who are not capable of abandoning Marxism are also the psychotrots.
                Bolshevism, as the history of the CPSU teaches, arose in 1903 * g. at the II Congress of the RSDLP as one of the party factions. According to his opponents, the Bolsheviks until 1917 * g. never represented the real majority of the members of the Marxist party, and therefore opponents of the Bolsheviks in those years always opposed their self-designation. But such an opinion stemmed from a misunderstanding by the diverse Mensheviks of the essence of Bolshevism ... "VP of the USSR
                1. +1
                  27 September 2017
                  History has already written off your history of the CPSU to the scrap. And all normal people handed over for waste paper along with the labors of the main characters. Do not call me. What Bolshevism is what communism. Although an owl on a stump, even though we kick the owl, the owl is still shitty.
                  1. +1
                    27 September 2017
                    Quote: Ken71
                    What Bolshevism is what communism.

                    The Russian people have always been the bearer of Bolshevism. For the Russian, the interests of the majority are always higher than the interests of their own. In the acronym CPSU, unlike the CPSU (b), there is no indication of the Bolsheviks (б) and it is not by chance that they "forgot". In the CPSU, the Bolsheviks did not end immediately, by the 91 ...
            2. +1
              27 September 2017
              What's the difference. The main thing is that we have good.
  8. +7
    27 September 2017
    "Sverdlov left Kharkov for Moscow. According to the official version, it was on the way to Moscow that he fell ill with the Spanish flu, the Spanish flu, the epidemic of which occurred just in 1918-1919. From around the world, from this time they died of 50 up to 100 million people. Russia was no exception - there were also a lot of people with the “Spaniard”, the number of people who died from this disease reached three million by 1920. Even Yakov Sverdlov himself could get sick with the “Spaniard”, there was nothing surprising , especially since Sverdlov was not distinguished by good health. "
    <...> "It is in the desire to free the party from an overly active" personnel officer "who was gradually turning into a leader, and the causes of the sudden illness and rapid death of Yakov Mikhailovich Sverdlov are rooted."
    The author is clearly not saying anything. Most likely, the Spaniard was specially invented and launched around the world by the Bolsheviks, if only to destroy Sverdlov laughing
    1. 0
      March 4 2018
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      gradually becoming a leader, and the root causes of the sudden illness and rapid death of Yakov Mikhailovich Sverdlov. "
      The author is clearly not saying anything. Most likely, the Spaniard was specially invented and launched around the world by the Bolsheviks, if only to destroy Sverdlov


      Hello yefim, well, to hell with him ... burn it in hell, this executioner-Satanist
  9. +7
    27 September 2017
    Quote: The same Lech
    Stake in the grave of this man ... for the massacres of the Russian population ... this YAKOV has his hands to the elbow in the blood of my people.

    Lech, I agree with you: the raccoon Jacob was still a watchdog. Generally a muddy type and too much turbidity floats around him,
    And there was a lot of trouble with the attempt on Lenin: how many publications I read on this subject and remained convinced that there is more than one
    See for yourself: in the Kaplan case, "a certain number of pages" disappeared somewhere, a pass to the Kremlin, what were these passes for everyone? Gil, the driver of Lenin, said that they did not plan a trip to the Michelsons factory, and Kaplan was already waiting there, or maybe she was clairvoyant? The first words of Lenin were: “was he detained?”, And Lenin could see the one who shot him. The testimony of the man who detained Kaplan, he runs down the street in pursuit of the UNKNOWN and see a woman from the side and he understood, she! And the appeal of the MKhK with a request to bring a weapon from which they shot at Lenin and some worker brought a gun and they are happy. And another detail, Kaplan was shot on the eve of Dzerzhinsky’s arrival, perhaps out of fear that he would see inconsistencies, and so she was shot and the case closed. Honor and praise, but that Kaplan is a blind chicken and in the dark it won’t get into an elephant.
    Something seems to me that this is Yashin’s work, perhaps V. And went to him to repent?
    1. 0
      27 September 2017
      Apparently, the Socialist-Revolutionary Lydia Konopleva shot from Lenin’s cell at Lenin. They had several successful assassination attempts on the Chekists. But then both went on to the Bolsheviks.
      Since everyone was blamed on Kaplan and the case with her shot was closed, Semenov and Konopleva were beyond suspicion.
  10. +5
    27 September 2017
    Quote: Boris55
    Again, the Trotskyists are given out as Bolsheviks ... sad
    People! The Bolsheviks are those who defend the interests of the majority. They, by definition, cannot destroy those whose interests they defend. The Trotskyists are engaged in the extermination of the people, who today are trying to pass off the genocide of the Russian people as acts of the Bolsheviks, thereby transferring the blame on the Bolshevik Stalin as well. Not by washing, so by skating our enemies continue to carry out de-Stalinization. It didn’t work right away, we went around ...

    In that case, Sverdlov and Lenin are Trotskyists? Sverdlov’s not that his hands are in blood, but he is in the blood on the top of his head. And Lenin recommended him to the post before the All-Russian Central Executive Committee
    1. +3
      27 September 2017
      Quote: Monarchist
      And Lenin recommended him to the post before the All-Russian Central Executive Committee

      "Cadres decide everything"
      The trouble with all revolutions is the lack of managers dedicated to the cause of the revolution. One has to deal with what is and what is - not always what is needed ...
      1. +3
        27 September 2017
        Boris, I agree with your quote from Lenin: you had to train managers for the new state
  11. +2
    27 September 2017
    Quote: Ken71
    Are you serious or joking. I have not heard such an alternative definition of the Bolsheviks. And who are the Mensheviks in your opinion?

    Angels without wings
    1. +2
      27 September 2017
      But with horns and hooves?
  12. +4
    27 September 2017
    The bastard is not at all sorry for this. But the fact that the Bolsheviks from it began to equip the churchyard on Red Square is bad. Not in Russian.
    1. +1
      27 September 2017
      And why is he a bastard and Lenin, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Stalin are not bastards. Or Zinoviev bastard. And Trotsky. But Dzerzhinsky is not. Or yes too. What is the principle of filtering them.
      1. +2
        27 September 2017
        Quote: Ken71
        baudolino Today, 10:14
        The bastard is not at all sorry for this. But the fact that the Bolsheviks from it began to equip the churchyard on Red Square is bad. Not in Russian.
        baudolino

        1
        Ken71 Today, 10: 36 ↑
        And why is he a bastard and Lenin, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Stalin are not bastards. Or Zinoviev bastard. And Trotsky. But Dzerzhinsky is not. Or yes too. What is the principle of filtering them.

        I wonder one: where do these guys take so much inspiration ?.
        1. +3
          27 September 2017
          how where? in one’s own worthlessness. well, a person’s life didn’t succeed-who should be to blame for the same thing .. well, not he himself really ..
        2. +1
          28 September 2017
          Maybe female affection and love are not enough? Such, here, unproductive sublimation request
      2. +1
        27 September 2017
        Quote: Ken71
        And why is he a bastard and Lenin, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Stalin are not bastards. Or Zinoviev bastard. And Trotsky. But Dzerzhinsky is not. Or yes too. What is the principle of filtering them.

        Yes, all of these are bastards. And that’s all - Russophobes, internal invaders, into the furnace all the listed slag and all business!
  13. +7
    27 September 2017
    Sverdlov was one of the most sinister figures. The organization of an attempt on Lenin is beyond doubt.
    It was Sverdlov who was conducting a hasty investigation into the Fanny Kaplan case, and it was on his orders that Kaplan was quickly shot and burned in a barrel on the territory of the Kremlin. This is also evidenced by the name of the person who directed the "investigation" of the Kaplan case - Yakov Yurovsky.
    As a result, he received a return from Lenin.
    A few photos. The author of the article at the top brought a photograph - well, a purely harmless intellectual.
    It seems to me that this series of photos better characterizes:

    The adamant revolutionary.

    One step remained before absolute power.

    In vain you are so Yashenka
  14. +2
    27 September 2017
    It would be nice to write how many jewels after the death of Sverdlov were found in the safe of his office ... And there were a lot of things .... Did the prominent Bolshevik think to pull the cordon in a bad situation?
  15. 0
    27 September 2017
    Sverdlov is probably one of the most beloved figures of Poklonsa wassat wassat wassat
  16. +7
    27 September 2017
    Standard anti-Soviet agitation. Besides a very low level. Except for the phrase about Sverdlov’s phenomenal organizational abilities, literally everything is wrong.
    From fundamental things — for example, the Bolsheviks in 1917 did not and could not consider Soviet power (the All-Russian Central Executive Committee) as a “technical tool”, ending with trifles, for example, Sverdlov had nothing to do with the execution of gr. Romanova with family.
    It is characteristic that the Russian Federation is the legal successor of the USSR, and Sverdlov was the first leader of the state, which characterizes the article as directly anti-state.
    But here the meaning is simple. The oligarchic regime in Russia simply parasitizes on the Soviet legacy, therefore, was forced to talk about its legal succession, while the ideological basis of the regime is anti-Sovietism.
    Hence the endless pressure of stubborn anti-Soviet delirium.
    1. +4
      27 September 2017
      Quote: Odyssey
      .. Sverdlov was the first leader of the state ..

      There is an interesting point: credentials on interstate etiquette (rules) are awarded to the head of state. And who specifically presented his credentials in April 1918, Ambassador Wilhelm von Mirbach-Harff. I still have information that he handed just to the head of state, Y. Sverdlov. If you have other information, then please voice it.
      1. +3
        27 September 2017
        Quote: venaya
        And who specifically presented his credentials in April 1918, Ambassador Wilhelm von Mirbach-Harff.

        Sorry, I don’t know.
        Note Sverdlov was the head of state. The supreme body of state power was the All-Russian Central Executive Committee, and Sverdlov was its head. Lenin was the chairman of the government. And the party at that time did not have one chapter at all. There was a collective head of the Central Committee.
  17. +4
    27 September 2017
    “The Black Devil of the Bolsheviks” - that’s how Yakov Mikhailovich characterized the enemies of the Soviet government .... everything. You can’t read this nonsense further .... as if the Soviet government had no enemies but a bunch of exalted tantrums .....
  18. +4
    27 September 2017
    According to another version of this terrorist and great-grandfather B. Nemtsov, the workers in Orel (or Kursk) were beaten half to death when he tried to speak at a rally. After death, a large sum of gold rubles was found in Sverdlov’s safe: nature took its toll.
    As the head of the underground, he organized abductions, tortures, and murders of comrades under the guise of police to rally members of the underground.
  19. +2
    27 September 2017
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Uh, ale, stop, bro! You are a man who suits you as a grandfather not ham!

    Yes, here many comrades take advantage of the fact that the false adversaries only deal with the protection of drugs and fake vodka, and not like the Yankees catch and force the "national treasure" that encroached on untouchables from the cohort.
    Midshipman - Hello!
    I lounged for a year in Chernyshev’s division, and then in other departments for the Kutakhovites.
  20. +5
    27 September 2017
    Quote: Seeker
    Yes, what do you know about this person. Primitive !! ?? Go. Better hit your Yeltsin.

    EBN is worse for all of us than a bitter radish. Lech was not rude to you, but you ...
  21. +2
    27 September 2017
    Quote: Seeker
    Well then, you are a lieutenant colonel Monarchist. A link to your FALSE !!! statements.

    I read about this safe back in the media during the Union that such documents are stored in the Museum of the October Revolution, how many times under historical documents were references to the Partarchive and the Museum of the October Revolution.
    Please note that under the article there is a link "Sverdlov’s safe" and the source of information must be indicated there
  22. +2
    27 September 2017
    Quote: Ken71
    But with horns and hooves?

    What is quite possible
  23. +2
    27 September 2017
    Quote: baudolino
    The bastard is not at all sorry for this. But the fact that the Bolsheviks from it began to equip the churchyard on Red Square is bad. Not in Russian.

    I am not a fan of the Bolsheviks, but in this case I do not see crime in this. It has long been the case that a particularly respected person was buried in the central square, but here they were expensive for revolutionaries
    1. +1
      27 September 2017
      Quote: Monarchist
      Quote: baudolino
      The bastard is not at all sorry for this. But the fact that the Bolsheviks from it began to equip the churchyard on Red Square is bad. Not in Russian.

      I am not a fan of the Bolsheviks, but in this case I do not see crime in this. It has long been the case that a particularly respected person was buried in the central square, but here they were expensive for revolutionaries

      The crime is that the Bolshevik churchyard in the center of Moscow has grown to indecent. There, half, at least, must be dug up and a hundred and first kilometer, to where they belong. Sverdlov including ..
      1. 0
        March 10 2018
        Quote: Whispering in the night
        half, at least, it is necessary to dig out and for a hundred and first kilometer, to where they belong. Sverdlov including ..

        This Ghouls in the first place ... burn and dispel the ashes
  24. +1
    27 September 2017
    Quote: The same Lech
    Yes, what do you know about this person. Primitive !! ?? Go. Better hit your Yeltsin.


    We pass on to the distinguished person ... ah ah ah ... I try not to allow myself that. hi

    In the Reds, this is in the order of things, it has long been noticed ...
    1. +2
      27 September 2017
      did you crawl out of the mink again to surprise us with your stupid things? how did you deal with the innocently killed Kalmyks and Tatars, along with the green men?
      1. 0
        27 September 2017
        Quote: long in stock.
        did you crawl out of the mink again to surprise us with your stupid things? how did you deal with the innocently killed Kalmyks and Tatars, along with the green men?

        Do you want to discuss more about those ethnic cleansings, a fan of measuring ethnic groups for good and bad?
        1. +3
          27 September 2017
          You can only discuss with a person who has his own thoughts. And where do you come from? Even your friends, the Nazis will not accept you, you cannot work with a caliper ...
          1. +1
            27 September 2017
            Quote: long in stock.
            You can only discuss with a person who has his own thoughts. And where do you come from? Even your friends, the Nazis will not accept you, you cannot work with a caliper ...

            About the Nazis - it's in the mirror, well, or at the grave of Kobe. I don’t comment on the rest of the stream of consciousness, everything is predictable, treat the nerves, the lord is clearly a thinker, oh yes, and the primer in the mouth, today we are learning the correct spelling of the words in the letter Sh ... lol
            1. +1
              27 September 2017
              and how can you at least comment on something, because neither Novodvorskaya nor Alekseeva did not know about our conversation .. here and you don’t have any blanks. and at least you never had your thoughts here ... and what are you talking about they said the letter sh ..?
              1. +1
                27 September 2017
                I can’t stand Novodvorskaya with Alekseeva, it’s not clear why you dragged them here.
                And such, God forgive me, people still climb and teach, scream, damn it! I repeat, look in the mirror, wise guy, I’ve googled about the caliper, I’m looking, here’s the little thing, at least you will learn from me here!
                1. +2
                  27 September 2017
                  wow, what’s wrong with you .. you can’t stand it and you’re talking with their phrases ... really, really ... you wouldn’t have climbed out with your stupidity and wouldn’t have lectured. I didn’t understand about the barbell. what is it all for? who google and why? I actually learned how to work with them back in school. but you don’t understand it .. you saw his maximum in the picture ... yes .. all the same office plankton is a pathetic sight .. even on the Internet ..
                  1. +1
                    27 September 2017
                    Quote: long in stock.
                    wow, what’s wrong with you .. you can’t stand it and you’re talking with their phrases ... really, really ... you wouldn’t have climbed out with your stupidity and wouldn’t have lectured. I didn’t understand about the barbell. what is it all for? who google and why? I actually learned how to work with them back in school. but you don’t understand it .. you saw his maximum in the picture ... yes .. all the same office plankton is a pathetic sight .. even on the Internet ..

                    Try to understand and realize, ruddy, that the commies of yours, all these Sverdlovsk, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and other similar slag are not accepted not only by liberals like Novodvorskaya, but simply by all normal, adequate people, of whom the vast majority are.
                    And secondly, your time is over forever, humble yourself, older, drank the people's blood and enough, get out of it. And once again, go into power - will we roll into the asphalt, anestend? wink
                    1. +5
                      28 September 2017
                      Well, well ... try to roll it up ... unlike you working for buttons such as I have combat experience .. and will you take us with anything? so we are not on this part ..
                      1. 0
                        28 September 2017
                        Quote: long in stock.
                        Well, well ... try to roll it up ... unlike you working for buttons such as I have combat experience .. and will you take us with anything? so we are not on this part ..

                        About the mouth is already too much, and judging by this plebeian jargon, all your “combat experience” from the nearest beer house has been received. Go with God, bydlo blue-haired ..
                    2. +5
                      28 September 2017
                      Quote: Whispering in the night
                      And once again, go into power - will we roll into the asphalt, anestend?

                      The revolution is a holiday of the oppressed masses, of the oppressed people, and you can’t trample against it, if you get in their way, they will crush you like a bug, as was done with all the lovers of someone to "roll into the asphalt" in 1918-1921 .g.
                      1. +3
                        28 September 2017
                        I see directly these battalions of office hamsters on the march ...
                      2. 0
                        28 September 2017
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Quote: Whispering in the night
                        And once again, go into power - will we roll into the asphalt, anestend?

                        The revolution is a holiday of the oppressed masses, of the oppressed people, and you can’t trample against it, if you get in their way, they will crush you like a bug, as was done with all the lovers of someone to "roll into the asphalt" in 1918-1921 .g.

                        Well, it is impossible to compare two completely different eras, where the Communists will now take millions of the later deceived peasants in gray popes, which, in fact, ensured them a victory in the Civil? Now, excuse me for the truth, your electorate is mainly people of retirement and pre-retirement age, nostalgic for Soviet times. Look at how many people come to rallies at Zyuganov, several hundred, maximum, that's all your "oppressed masses". And the rest of the people straight from Turkey and other resorts, in their cars - again to work for their "oppressors" .. request
                    3. +3
                      28 September 2017
                      Quote: Whispering in the night
                      Try to understand and realize, rudder,

                      The reincarnation of the deceased in a Bose Romanov?
                      I read pearls and marvel at how impudent it is to be possessed by someone like you, so that to lie at the expense of the blood, you drowned the country in blood in 90. And this ... you will hiccup.
                      1. +2
                        28 September 2017
                        the most curious thing is that basically these stubborn ones appear under the flag of Moldova .. they have a nest there or something ..
                      2. +1
                        28 September 2017
                        "Try to understand and realize, ruddy feather"
                        The reincarnation of the deceased in a Bose Romanov?

                        No, dear, this miracle is hanging on the gold mining sites, where adult uncles express themselves.
                    4. +5
                      28 September 2017
                      then whispering in the night.
                      Yeah, but we don’t want to teach the history of the country CATEGORically, but we drink shit from all suvorov-cutters laughing
                      Yes EVERYTHING that you use now (excluding household appliances) was created by the Communists!
                      And the communal apartment is the cheapest in Europe - this is because the Communists were not on the Internet and ate beer in three throats, but plowed and created INFRASTRUCTURE that even your Hand-Ass generation could not kill in 25 years!
                      Addicts and homeless people WAS NOT AT ALL!
                      The medicine was PREVENTIVE and we all drank from reusable dishes without fear!
                      I spent 12 shifts in pioneer camps in the Crimea!
                      My parents on the 21st day cost 7rub. 40kop with a salary of 210rub.
                      Yes, I didn’t have Sony’s two-cassette player, but once a year my sister and I rafted with my parents along the rivers of our country on rafts or kayaks.
                      And such trips a month (with registration in the KSS and approved plans of the event itself) were quite drawn by a family of two engineers!
                      And MZHK my parents got paid for everything 1400 rubles for 5 years WITHOUT INTEREST !!!!!
                      And many people even received apartments from the state !!!!
                      Losses during the Second World War are 4 times less than losses during the restructuring (damned labeled who killed my country) !!!!
  25. +1
    27 September 2017
    ..if Yakov Sverdlov managed to live longer, it is possible, but rather guaranteed, that he would fall victim to the internal party struggle. Although he could have won it - who knows!


    So it would be, the case is exactly the same as with Trotsky. Someone would have nailed someone in that Bolshevik serpentarium, either Sverdlov Stalin, or vice versa ...
    1. +5
      28 September 2017
      Quote: Whispering in the night
      serpentariums nailed

      Are you talking about yours, liberal and democratic?
      Yeah, that's for sure, a serpentarium, from Chubais to Solzhenitsyn with gozmans and other Reichelgauz ..
      1. 0
        28 September 2017
        Quote: Pancir026

        Are you talking about yours, liberal and democratic?
        Yeah, that's for sure, a serpentarium, from Chubais to Solzhenitsyn with gozmans and other Reichelgauz ..

        No, I’m talking about your Bolsheviks, there was a serpentarium there, it’s enough to read the history of the party, or rather, the tops of the party, permanent undercover fuss and the struggle for power within it, the numerous “enemies of the peoples”, left, right, Trotskyist, Bukharin and other deviators and etc..
        But in vain you are trying in vain to try all the characters listed above, many of them are yours, have left the Communist Party, and all together are deeply disgusting to me. I already explained here to your nervous colleague - do not try to smear everything with black and white paint, like, either red-feathers or liberals and no one else, this is absolutely not so!
        1. +2
          28 September 2017
          Quote: Whispering in the night
          No, I’m talking about your Bolsheviks, it was there that the serpentarium was

          C'mon, you translate the arrows. About yourself and yours you are whispering here.
          Quote: Whispering in the night
          , and all together - are deeply disgusting to me.

          But you are the same in spirit.
          1. 0
            28 September 2017
            Quote: Pancir026

            But you are the same in spirit.

            This is your opinion, firstly, erroneous, and secondly, to me, you know, it’s deep purple. And, I repeat, anti-communists are not only among liberals, you have hallucinations, anti-communists in one form or another are present among all normal people, from monarchists and all kinds of patriots (in a good and not vulgarized sense of the word liberals) to simply apolitical citizens, not accepting lies and violence.
  26. +2
    27 September 2017
    Not so simple would be Yakov Mikhailovich. I remember there was a wonderful book by V. Shambarov, "The State and Revolution." It is convincingly enough said that Sverdlov was preparing a coup. Attempt on Lenin - there are big suspicions on him. Yes, and the unbending Felix for the entire time of the Gorky absence of Lenin, fled to Switzerland. And he returned to Moscow after Ilyich’s recovery.
    Well, then, in time, the Spaniard and Sverdlov threw back their hooves. They say before death everyone shouted "what have we done."
    By the way, Spaniard is just a viral flu. Of course, there were no antibiotics at that time, but good nutrition and the best doctors. And he did not complain about his health. But he nevertheless met the expectations of the Kremlin. He died.
    1. +2
      27 September 2017
      Quote: Bakht
      By the way, Spaniard is just a viral flu. Of course, there were no antibiotics at that time,

      Flu antibiotics are useless.
      1. +1
        28 September 2017
        I support, my colleague, but antibiotics treat complications, and the flu is dangerous precisely by them (pneumonia). hi
      2. +2
        28 September 2017
        I am not a doctor. It is possible that you are right. It is strange that apart from Sverdlov, none of the inhabitants of the Kremlin were injured. But Sverdlov visited. And no one got infected. And no one got sick. The disease hit Europe at the end of World War I. When it was full of weakened and simply hungry people. But this is just my guess. I repeat once again that I am not a doctor.
        And about Sverdlov, there are many facts and facts that it was he who organized the attempt on Lenin. I don’t know if it was good or bad. But, apparently, the article is correctly named "The Demon."
        1. +1
          28 September 2017
          Like any disease, there is a period of incubation (it was clearly not infected in the Kremlin) and just for the flu, this period is most dangerous for the infection of others, because the person has no obvious symptoms of the disease, and he is already spreading the infection. Perhaps he was generally delivered when complications started. The virus destroys the local immunity (or the immunity ends) and here the usual, at first glance, bacteria begin to multiply actively. And at the expense of facts and facts, you can guess forever. It happens that one who has a motive is not guilty and vice versa.
          1. +2
            28 September 2017
            He would be in Kharkov. He arrived in Moscow already sick. Throughout the illness, members of the party leadership visited him. Except for Lenin. It seems that, because of the fear of contracting Lenin, they would not be allowed to go to him. Lenin visited the already dying Sverdlov for 10-15 minutes.
            Oh well him. As they say, "Maxim died and to hell with him"
            I generally do not respect this Bolshevik scum. Correctly, Stalin pressed them to the nail.
            1. +2
              28 September 2017
              Yes Yes. Stalin was a descendant of Przewalski, Queen Tamar, the son of Zeus, the reincarnation of Odin. I can disappoint you, he was the son of a shoemaker and a Bolshevik. Leninist. A communist. By man.
              1. +2
                28 September 2017
                We can go to Stalin. But I believe more in contemporaries. Say, such different people as Solzhenitsyn, Churchill and Mussolini considered Stalin an anti-communist, counter-revolutionary and nationalist.
                Yes, he was the son of a shoemaker, without completing his studies at the seminary. He was a member of the Bolshevik party and probably wore a party ticket of the CPSU (b) with a unique number.
                -----
                But he uprooted the Bolshevik bastard and turned Russia from the path of revolution to the path of normal development. What we used until 1985.
                Yes, he would be a man. I would even say Man. But here everyone has their own criteria.
                1. +2
                  28 September 2017
                  Quote: Bakht
                  But he uprooted the Bolshevik bastard and turned Russia from the path of revolution to the path of normal development. What we used until 1985.

                  I.V. Stalin was the most real Bolshevik, and he did not clean out the Bolsheviks, but the left and right deviators who came to the Communist Party from other bankrupt parties (Mensheviks, Trotskyites-Mezhrayontsi, Bundists, etc.) at the beginning of 20 years.
                  They brought factionalism and ideological struggle into the party, which they did not stop for a minute. IN AND. It was not in vain that Lenin at the Tenth Congress adopted a resolution banning factionalism.
                  But those who came did not dissolve their factions, and from criticizing the course very soon they turned to direct wrecking. They were supported by some reborn Bolsheviks, for example, the former Bolsheviks Zinoviev, Kamenev, Rykov, Bukharin were right-wing, but joined in with the Trotskyist leftists.
                  In the 30s this struggle escalated, and before the threat of war, tough measures had to be applied to all enemies of the people.
                  1. +2
                    28 September 2017
                    Extension
                    I.V. Stalin did not turn anywhere from the path of the revolution, but built socialism in accordance with the party program adopted in 1918. Under his leadership, the Bolsheviks managed to find a new economic mechanism that led to the destruction of commodity-money relations and was the basis for building communism.
                    Read about the Stalinist model of socialism article "To what socialism are the Bolsheviks called" on the sites
                    http://pkbu.ucoz.ru/load/
                    http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/load/
                    1. 0
                      28 September 2017
                      I wonder why I should read the Ukrainian site if there are more solid sources, statistics and the direction of the country's development.
                      I was especially pleased with the passage about the "degenerated Bolsheviks" and the destruction of "commodity-money relations." Can you confirm this?
                      In turn, I advise you to read S. Kara-Murza "Soviet Civilization" 2 volumes. And look at the statistics - how much was produced in private workshops and workshops in the Stalinist USSR
                      Link https://pikabu.ru/story/malyiy_i_sredniy_biznes_a
                      rteli_i_kooperativyi_v_sssr_4340869
                      6% of gross output is, of course, "the absence of commodity-money relations"
                      1. +1
                        29 September 2017
                        Quote: Bakht
                        6% of gross output is, of course, "the absence of commodity-money relations"

                        Are you all right with math? With theorver, or mat. By statistics, for example, are you on "you" or on "you"? Are you aware that 0,06 to 0,94, for some processes, is this quite within the margin of error?
                      2. +1
                        29 September 2017
                        Quote: Bakht
                        why should I read the Ukrainian site if there are more solid sources, statistics and the direction of the country's development.

                        Neglected in vain, there is a lot of interesting things, and solidity is a subjective assessment. Read about the ways of overcoming commodity-money relations. Stalin in his already cited work. Believe Kara-Murze is also not worth it, he is not a Bolshevik and does not adhere to the class approach to the analysis of current events.
    2. +2
      28 September 2017
      "By the way, Spaniard is just a viral flu" ////

      No. Spaniard was an unusual mutation of the virus. She struck not weakened
      people, as usual, but for some reason young and strong (with a strong immune system).
      Therefore, so many have perished. No healthy diet helped.
      Regarding Sverdlov: he was a schemer, and he was collecting incriminating evidence at all. Gloomy type.
      But it is by no means an exception among the Bolshevik leaders. Dzerzhinsky was, in my opinion, even worse.
      Lenin was shot, of course, not by the blind Kaplan, but still by the Social Revolutionaries. (See I answered below to the "monarchist").
      In principle, Sverdlov, like Lenin, like Dzherzhinsky, were lucky that they died early -
      remained the "heroes of the revolution." If they had lived longer, they would have become “traitors and enemies,” like everyone else.
      1. +1
        28 September 2017
        Quote: voyaka uh
        In principle, Sverdlov, like Lenin, like Dzherzhinsky, were lucky that they died early -
        remained the "heroes of the revolution." If they had lived longer, they would have become “traitors and enemies,” like everyone else.

        These are all your idle conjectures. All of them, including Stalin, were real Bolsheviks. Such people do not degenerate, as happened, for example, with Kamenev or Shlyapnikov, who began to sybaritism even in the civil war.
        1. +1
          28 September 2017
          "Such are not reborn," ////

          I agree. Do not have time. Either they die early due to illness, or they are shot as enemies of the people or spies.
          1. +1
            29 September 2017
            Quote: voyaka uh
            or they are shot as enemies of the people or spies.

            As I understand it, this is a sore point for you. Yes, some died early because they laid their lives and health on the altar of the revolutionary struggle and socialist construction, others fell victim to slander and libel. But this is a class struggle, and here someone, there can be no revolution without counter-revolution, and after the overthrow of the bourgeoisie, the class struggle takes the most harsh forms. About this still V.I. Lenin warned.
  27. +2
    27 September 2017
    A bit about the myths that are replicated on the forum.

    1. Example with a safe. This myth has long been stuck in the teeth. After the death of Y.M. Sverdlov’s heavy safe, as they wrote somewhere that almost 100 kg of gold was stored there, they didn’t open it, they didn’t look inside, but they threw it somewhere into the warehouse, and maybe there are the most important state and party documents, and the safe itself - a very useful thing, really M.I. Kalinin, who replaced Sverdlov in this post, or some other leader?

    2. An example of the beating of Sverdlov. Also the fruit of sick fantasies. 1919, white and red terror, would the Bolsheviks really conceal that there was a beating of Sverdlov at a rally. On the contrary, this would be an excellent occasion to show how the enemies of the Soviet government atrocities, kill and beat the Bolshevik leaders.

    3. Sverdlov’s involvement in the attempt on V.I. Lenin. Why did Sverdlov need this? His posts were higher than that of Lenin, who was formally the Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars, accountable to the All-Russian Central Executive Committee and the Central Committee of the party. But V.I. Lenin was also the Leader, and Sverdlov could not understand that it was impossible to take the place of a leader by his murder, for this it was necessary to be, at least, a great theoretician.

    In a word, nonsense during the discussion heaped a lot.
    1. +2
      27 September 2017
      So, according to the version of Sverdlov’s death from beating - he was beaten by the workers, thereby the proletariat, for which the Bolsheviks were tearing their throats, and this is a shame and discrediting of the party. Yes, and beaten for his Jewish origin, anti-Semitism, it is clear that they are classified.
      1. +2
        27 September 2017
        understandably. again there is no evidence - there is a banal chatter ... gossip is circulating as if rumors were forbidden, rumors are circulating as if gossip is forbidden ..
      2. +2
        28 September 2017
        Quote: Whispering in the night
        So, according to the version of Sverdlov’s death from beating - he was beaten by the workers, thereby the proletariat, for which the Bolsheviks were tearing their throats, and this is a shame and discrediting of the party. Yes, and beaten for his Jewish origin, anti-Semitism, it is clear that they are classified.


        According to the version that you believe, Y.M. Sverdlov spoke at a rally of workers, and they beat him for his Jewish origin, and therefore the party decided to classify this event. I can say one thing about this: be a little critical of the information that you really like, but it is false so as not to look silly.

        First of all, how can you classify an event that hundreds of people know about? This fact, if it had a place, would have disseminated the entire anti-Soviet press of that time: "How workers hate Bolshevik leaders."

        Secondly, the working class did not have anti-Semitic sentiments; they were among the petty bourgeoisie, various sorts of merchants, shopkeepers, bakers, etc.

        Thirdly, propaganda is a strong thing, and Soviet propagandists, if it had happened, would have certainly used it for their own purposes and presented the case as if it were the enemies of the Soviet government that had loused themselves in a work collective and attacked Sverdlov with the aim of killing, and this everyone would believe.

        It's elementary.
        1. +3
          28 September 2017
          Alexander, it’s in vain that you are turning to logic laughing Useless. If the limbic system prevails over the neocortex, i.e., emotions over thinking (hello to Savelyev laughing) But most likely
        2. 0
          28 September 2017
          Quote: Alexander Green

          According to the version that you believe, Y.M. Sverdlov spoke at a rally of workers, and they beat him for his Jewish origin

          I don’t believe a single version about Sverdlov’s death at all, but I don’t believe that this character with his hands to the elbow in the blood of Russian people is not interested in the word how he died there, from the “Spanish woman” or from the fists and kicks of anti-Semitic workers, generally violet. As they say, Maxim died - and to hell with him!
          1. +2
            28 September 2017
            Quote: Whispering in the night
            I don’t believe a single version about Sverdlov’s death,

            Why the hell are you replicating them?
            1. +1
              30 September 2017
              They have such a job.
              1. 0
                30 September 2017
                Do you know something about my work, Mr. psychic and clairvoyant? Or did they imagine from some fright that only yours, theirs, beliefs, and principles can have theirs, the reds can have it, and all those who disagree can supposedly have only “work”?
                1. 0
                  30 September 2017
                  so see a bird on the flight .... and you are the same in phrases ...
                  1. 0
                    October 1 2017
                    So it’s for you all have the same phrases, just about what you think - immediately “liberalist”, “Solzhenitsyn”, “Novodvorskaya” or “troll on salary”. Everything, on this meager flight of imagination ends, it’s boring with you, with the red feathers ..))
  28. +1
    28 September 2017
    bober1982,
    Read, there will be no questions, and exclamation points will remain.
  29. 0
    28 September 2017
    Quote: Protos
    then whispering in the night.
    Yeah, but we don’t want to teach the history of the country CATEGORically, but we drink shit from all suvorov-cutters laughing

    I know the history of Russia better than yours, so don’t be like your rude red colleagues here, it’s unintelligent, you know ..
  30. +2
    28 September 2017
    What an abomination! The proportion of Jews among the Bolsheviks of the earliest period of the USSR surpasses. It was at this time that the inexpressible rampant terror came against the entire Russian people and the centuries-old way of life. Only Stalin managed to tighten his tail to this coder. And voila - he is the worst tyrant of communism! And until now, it is the Jewish liberals who are embarrassed at the mention of Stalin, but ooooohhchchen often frantically speak about Lenin, Trotsky .... but they talked about Sverdlov ...
    And why not even bluntly say: the Bolshevik coup was a direct Jewish seizure of power? This is a historical fact ...
    1. +3
      28 September 2017
      Quote: gorgo
      And why not even bluntly say: the Bolshevik coup was a direct Jewish seizure of power? This is a historical fact ...


      This is a historical fact only for the hypertrophied brains of the Black Hundreds.

      Here is the composition of the first SOVNARCOM (18 people):

      1. Chairman - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) (26.10.1917 - 21.01.1924) -

      2. People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs:
      Alexey Ivanovich Rykov (26.10. - 4.11.1917) - Great Russian

      3. People's Commissariat of Agriculture
      Vladimir Pavlovich Milyutin (October 26.10 - November 4.11.1917, XNUMX) - Great Russian

      4. The People's Commissariat of Labor
      Alexander Gavrilovich Shlyapnikov (26.10.1917 - 8.10.1918) - Great Russian

      5. Committee on Naval Affairs (26.10. - 8.11.1917)
      Vladimir Alexandrovich Antonov-Ovseenko - maloros
      Pavel Efimovich Dybenko - Little Russian
      Nikolay Vasilievich Krylenko - Great Russian

      6. People's Commissariat of Trade and Industry
      Victor Pavlovich Nogin (26.10. - 4.11.1917) - Great Russian

      7. People's Commissar of Education
      Anatoly Vasilievich Lunacharsky (family member for the present father - Antonov) (26.10.1917/12.09.1929/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

      8. People's Commissariat of Finance
      Ivan Ivanovich Skvortsov-Stepanov (26.10.1917 - 20.01.1918) - Great Russian

      9. People's Commissariat of Foreign Affairs:
      Lev Davidovich Trotsky (Bronstein) (26.10.1917 - 8.04.1918) - Jew

      10. People's Commissariat of Justice
      Georgy Ippolitovich Lomov-Oppokov (26.10 - 9.12.1917) - Great Russian

      11. People's Commissariat of Food
      Ivan Adolfovich Teodorovich (26.10 - 4.11.1917) - Pole

      12. The People's Commissar of Posts and Telegraphs
      Nikolai Pavlovich Glebov (Avilov) (26.10 - 9.12.1917) - Great Russian

      13. People’s Commissariat for Nationalities (People’s Commissariat) of the RSFSR (1917-1923)
      Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) - Georgian

      14. The People’s Commissariat for Railway Affairs (26.10.1917 - 24.02.1918)
      Mark Timofeevich Elizarov (8.11.1917/7.01.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Russian

      15. The People’s Commissariat of State Charity (8.11.1917/20.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX)
      Alexandra Mikhailovna Kollontai (30.10.1917 - 17.03.1918) - Malorosska

      16. The Supreme Council of the National Economy (VSNH)
      Valerian Valerianovich Osinsky (Obolensky) (December 1.12.1917, 22.03.1918 - March XNUMX, XNUMX) - Great Russian

      Result: Russians - 15 (83%), 1 Jew, 1 Pole, 1 Georgians.
      1. +1
        28 September 2017
        It will be necessary to look at the biographies and make a compilation of how many of the above are “enemies of the people” and, I quote Mr. Vyshinsky and the Stalinist SSMI, “fascist dogs” turned out to be ...
      2. 0
        March 5 2018
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Quote: gorgo
        And why not even bluntly say: the Bolshevik coup was a direct Jewish seizure of power? This is a historical fact ...


        This is a historical fact only for the hypertrophied brains of the Black Hundreds.

        Here is the composition of the first SOVNARCOM (18 people):

        1. Chairman - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) (26.10.1917 - 21.01.1924) -

        2. People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs:
        Alexey Ivanovich Rykov (26.10. - 4.11.1917) - Great Russian

        3. People's Commissariat of Agriculture
        Vladimir Pavlovich Milyutin (October 26.10 - November 4.11.1917, XNUMX) - Great Russian

        4. The People's Commissariat of Labor
        Alexander Gavrilovich Shlyapnikov (26.10.1917 - 8.10.1918) - Great Russian

        5. Committee on Naval Affairs (26.10. - 8.11.1917)
        Vladimir Alexandrovich Antonov-Ovseenko - maloros
        Pavel Efimovich Dybenko - Little Russian
        Nikolay Vasilievich Krylenko - Great Russian

        6. People's Commissariat of Trade and Industry
        Victor Pavlovich Nogin (26.10. - 4.11.1917) - Great Russian

        7. People's Commissar of Education
        Anatoly Vasilievich Lunacharsky (family member for the present father - Antonov) (26.10.1917/12.09.1929/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

        8. People's Commissariat of Finance
        Ivan Ivanovich Skvortsov-Stepanov (26.10.1917 - 20.01.1918) - Great Russian

        9. People's Commissariat of Foreign Affairs:
        Lev Davidovich Trotsky (Bronstein) (26.10.1917 - 8.04.1918) - Jew

        10. People's Commissariat of Justice
        Georgy Ippolitovich Lomov-Oppokov (26.10 - 9.12.1917) - Great Russian

        11. People's Commissariat of Food
        Ivan Adolfovich Teodorovich (26.10 - 4.11.1917) - Pole

        12. The People's Commissar of Posts and Telegraphs
        Nikolai Pavlovich Glebov (Avilov) (26.10 - 9.12.1917) - Great Russian

        13. People’s Commissariat for Nationalities (People’s Commissariat) of the RSFSR (1917-1923)
        Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) - Georgian

        14. The People’s Commissariat for Railway Affairs (26.10.1917 - 24.02.1918)
        Mark Timofeevich Elizarov (8.11.1917/7.01.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Russian

        15. The People’s Commissariat of State Charity (8.11.1917/20.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX)
        Alexandra Mikhailovna Kollontai (30.10.1917 - 17.03.1918) - Malorosska

        16. The Supreme Council of the National Economy (VSNH)
        Valerian Valerianovich Osinsky (Obolensky) (December 1.12.1917, 22.03.1918 - March XNUMX, XNUMX) - Great Russian

        Result: Russians - 15 (83%), 1 Jew, 1 Pole, 1 Georgians.

        Come on, lie there!
        99% of the Russian government were your brothers - "God-chosen."
        especially the "Russian" Mark Timofeych Elizarov ...
        Elizarov is a slightly modified surname from the Jew Illazarov.
        And about the name Mark, I hope no one has any questions whose name this is.
        how do you like to conspire, change surnames
  31. 0
    28 September 2017
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Whispering in the night
    I don’t believe a single version about Sverdlov’s death,

    Why the hell are you replicating them?

    I do not duplicate them, but only answered your logical chains about versions. Others are circulating them.
  32. +2
    28 September 2017
    Whispering in the night,
    Quote: Whispering in the night
    Well, it is impossible to compare two completely different eras, where the Communists will now take millions of the later deceived peasants in gray popes, which, in fact, ensured them a victory in the Civil? Now, excuse me for the truth, your electorate is mainly people of retirement and pre-retirement age, nostalgic for Soviet times.


    F. Lassalle in 1864 wrote: "I can already hear in the distance the dull tread of the working battalions" (Afterword to the work “Mr. Bastia Schulze von Delich,” 1864), and .... in 1870 there was an uprising of the Paris Communards.

    IN AND. Lenin also wrote: “We do not need hysterical impulses, we need the measured tread of the iron battalions of the proletariat” (PSS, T.36, S.208) and in 1917 a revolution took place.

    Today, too, the hard steps of the working class are beginning to be felt.
    On September 13, the Vladimir Motor and Tractor Plant went on strike because of non-payment of salaries. The company's management twists and turns, feeds with promises, but so far has not given money to workers. Although the owners of the plant are not in poverty. Vladimir Plant is part of the Tractor Plants concern owned by Vnesheconombank. And bankers are a people of money. And if they “have no money” for workers' salaries, then it’s just a policy in relations with the working class - “push the workers that they have the strength while they are suffering”.
    And against the policy of workers, the tool has long been known ...
  33. +3
    28 September 2017
    avva2012,
    It is excusable for trolls to write about brains, bayonets and Russians, and not to a person.

    it's not my fault that the esteemed Michman has enough educational level to know this phrase .. hi Doctor, what about humanism? wink
    1. 0
      29 September 2017
      Well yes. I agree. On the heresy in his mouth, we do not pay attention, “I am an old grandmother.” “One for all” Ardova
      1. +1
        29 September 2017
        On heresy in his mouth, do not pay attention

        what exactly did he say to the heretical that you are ready to send him to the fire, despite the ranks and merits? I have the honor? I would say that too if I didn’t know a bunch of sins behind me. soldier
        1. 0
          29 September 2017
          I already wrote above that, but about the "honor I have," this is not for me. Autodafe, I, too, am not a supporter, just the word "heresy" has different meanings.
          1. +2
            29 September 2017
            I read, and did not notice any heresy. stop About passports - his right to quote, by the way, is such an opinion on Wikipedia (and it is also written by a Jew!).
  34. +3
    28 September 2017
    Whispering in the night,
    Quote: Whispering in the night
    where will the communists now take millions of the later deceived peasants in gray popes, which, in fact, ensured their victory in the Civil?

    What makes you think that the Communists deceived the peasants? Nobody deceived anyone. After the revolution, all landowners and church lands were transferred to the use of peasants. They began to manage, but the children began to grow up, and after about 10 years the family sections of the units began, after which the young owners could hardly feed themselves. They were invited to unite in collective farms. The process was difficult, the enemies of the collective farm system were many, but still united, and the land was again transferred to collective farms for eternal use.

    It is now deceived both the peasants and workers, they gave everyone a voucher, which cost two bottles of vodka, and then they started selling everything that they built under the Soviet regime and it fell to those who managed to appropriate the people's money. So the earth, today is concentrated in the hands of the oligarchs.
    1. 0
      28 September 2017
      “The process went hard” - you delicately and tolerantly put it about collectivization. But I have other assessments, it was a crime against humanity, from which the Stalinists will never get away. And personally, I would have those collective farm activists who collectivized and dispossessed, not from around the corner would shoot, as the so-called "fists", and hung on the nearest aspens, for the bullets for these bandits and the dregs of society are a pity!
      1. +2
        28 September 2017
        Quote: Whispering in the night
        “The process went hard” - you delicately and tolerantly put it about collectivization. But I have other assessments, it was a crime against humanity, from which the Stalinists will never get away.

        Collectivization was the salvation of the countryside and country. The marketability of small peasant farms was at zero, they were not like a country, they could not feed themselves. And if the fist and their singers, as well as the opposition in the Communist Party had not opposed, then it would not have been so painful.
        1. 0
          29 September 2017
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Quote: Whispering in the night
          “The process went hard” - you delicately and tolerantly put it about collectivization. But I have other assessments, it was a crime against humanity, from which the Stalinists will never get away.

          Collectivization was the salvation of the countryside and country. The marketability of small peasant farms was at zero, they were not like a country, they could not feed themselves. And if the fist and their singers, as well as the opposition in the Communist Party had not opposed, then it would not have been so painful.

          Salvation, or what collectivization was for the country, is a controversial and debatable question, but the methods by which it was implemented were not even criminal, but gangster. You read Sholokhov’s letters to Stalin, for example, read whether, mind you, not some Solzhenitsyn, but a hard-headed Bolshevik, he will not lie and everything described by him before his eyes happened. The horrors created by collective farm activists, described by him in these letters only with fascism or genocide, can be compared with nothing more!
          Well, history itself issued the final verdict to the collective farms, a simple fact - under them the USSR frantically bought grain from around the world, and now, after the collapse of the collective farm system, Russia again, as in tsarist times, is one of its main world exporters.
          1. 0
            29 September 2017
            Quote: Whispering in the night
            The horrors created by collective farm activists, described by him in these letters only with fascism or genocide, can be compared with nothing more!

            No exaggeration. This you can tell your grandchildren in order to raise anti-advisers from them. And I also know this information from the lips of my parents and relatives, and I myself saw how they lived on collective farms, while studying at school I worked in the field for several years.
            And the verdict was passed to the collective farms privatizers. You yourself know this very well, all state farms and collective farms deliberately ruined in order to take possession of the land.
          2. +1
            29 September 2017
            Before our eyes, history is passing a sentence on small farms. And not to collective farms. What is the proportion of smallholder farming with the USA? What are the subsidies to farmers in the USA? The bulk of agricultural products in the States, Europe and Russia falls on large agricultural holdings. Private traders are not able to feed the country. Neither France, nor America, nor Russia.
            How people like to believe myths without analyzing objective data. According to American data, the poorest people in the country are small farmers. It got to the point that the Farmers Freedom Act was passed. Subsidies do not reach them, but settle on large farms. A global trend: the number of farmers is decreasing, and the number of large farms is increasing. In the States of small farmers (the number of cows is up to 100 and the allotment of land is less than 100 hectares), only 9%. Subsidies from the state to agriculture are increasing in all countries. Although the rights of the WTO is prohibited.
            1. 0
              29 September 2017
              Quote: Bakht
              Before our eyes, history is passing a sentence on small farms. And not to collective farms.

              Of course. Because collective farms have long died out as a class, that's all.
              1. 0
                29 September 2017
                Do you care about words or essence? What is a collective farm? Collective farm. What is a modern farmer? Go to the Krasnodar Territory. 90% of "farmers" leased land to "collective farms" (they are now called agricultural holdings), and they themselves are engaged in other activities. The same picture in the States. 90% of "small farmers" leased land and are engaged in other entrepreneurial activities.
                Discarding the words, briefly, in essence, what was the Stolypin reform? The one as a result of which Russia became an exporter of grain? What was the idea of ​​collective farms? The very one as a result of which the USSR became an exporter of grain. Under Stalin. And who destroyed the collective farms, as a result of which the USSR began to purchase grain?
                Why did Stalin call Khrushchev "little Marxist" and tapped his bald spot with his finger?
                1. 0
                  29 September 2017
                  Just do not need political information, we are not in the classroom, though. And do not compare the wretched Stalinist collective farms with sticks for workdays and modern agricultural holdings, for it is too funny. In the end, agricultural holdings are voluntary, and activists kicked the kolkhozes into collective farms, and how many innocent people are put into it at the same time, I am generally silent ...
                  1. +1
                    29 September 2017
                    This is not political information, but facts that you do not want to know. During the Stolypin reform, how many rebellions were there? I urge you to take a look not the REAL state of things. The small farmer is not able to provide the country. Interesting discussion. You ask questions on the history of Russia from Azerbaijan. And in response to silence ... And who is engaged in political information, instead of studying the problem?
                    Anyway. So far, I have not received any actual data here. Immediately became uninteresting
                    1. 0
                      29 September 2017
                      Quote: Bakht
                      This is not political information, but facts that you do not want to know. During the Stolypin reform, how many rebellions were there? I urge you to take a look not the REAL state of things. The small farmer is not able to provide the country. Interesting discussion. You ask questions on the history of Russia from Azerbaijan. And in response to silence ... And who is engaged in political information, instead of studying the problem?
                      Anyway. So far, I have not received any actual data here. Immediately became uninteresting

                      What does Stolypin reform have to do with it, what does small farmers have to do with it, and so on? Can't you see what I'm writing about? The fact that the methods of collectivization were not just criminal, but gangster and it was the bandits from the high road, human waste and garbage that brought them to life on the ground. However, those who commanded them there were the same ...
                      1. +1
                        29 September 2017
                        I am not writing about collectivization methods, but trying to refute the myth that small farmers and private property will feed Russia. Russia and under Stolypin and now feeds a large agricultural complex. Victims? Well, so I advised to go to Krasnodar, Stavropol and inquire about the number of victims with private property. Stalin never dreamed of. Hoes are just the tip of the iceberg. Now the land is privately owned by garbage and garbage.
                2. +2
                  29 September 2017
                  Quote: Bakht
                  Do you care about words or essence? What is a collective farm? Collective farm

                  The collective farm is a way of enslaving the peasantry. This consisted in the fact that the peasant pays a tax for each fruit tree in his plot, without fail he hands over the state skin for his personal pig, has a restriction on his personal plot, loses his passport, works for workdays, etc.
                  This is reality and the agricultural holding has nothing to do with it at all.
                  1. 0
                    29 September 2017
                    Stamps and again stamps. You already decide whether you are writing about a collective farm or about a personal plot and a personal pig? And then you have a clear confusion.
                    As for the passport, too, if not difficult. Not from the yellow press, but specifically what was freedom of movement?
                    I see that many people simply don’t know the history of their country. But this is also my country. So you need to be interested. For example. A certain M.S.Gorbachev freely moved from a village to a city and received a passport. Take an interest in the dynamics of the process. The mobility of the SSR population was higher than in Europe.
                    1. +2
                      29 September 2017
                      Quote: Bakht
                      Stamps and again stamps.

                      But what cliches, if my grandfathers and grandmothers were on this very collective farm and my parents safely escaped from there. And after the war, my grandfather cut down all of his apple trees, so as not to pay tax.
                      Quote: Bakht
                      You already decide whether you are writing about a collective farm or about a personal plot and a personal pig?

                      The collective farm is the totality of everything. This is not just a group of people who work together for the good of the motherland. This is primarily a limitation, suppression and way of life.
                      Quote: Bakht
                      A certain M.S.Gorbachev freely moved from a village to a city and received a passport

                      Why do I need Gorbachev? Above I wrote about my parents. They also moved to the city, but the river and ped served as a means for this. school, after which no one returned to the collective farm paradise.
                      1. +1
                        29 September 2017
                        Well, I also know collective farm life. On the example of the Krasnodar Territory. Someone cut down apple trees, but someone kept two pigs and two cows in the yard.
                        Understand that any of us can give examples both for and against. But the general situation in the country? Why were passports needed and why were certificates needed? We must understand the functioning of the state in order to judge this. They didn’t keep people in places, not passports, but registration. So I wanted to move to Moscow and work in my specialty. I got an answer that the company has no limit. In this regard, no one had freedom of movement.
                        The propiska institute performed its function much more efficiently than a passport. Tell me, now you can move to any city and not check in with the police or the FMS? And even for citizens of the Russian Federation.
                        The state needed people in the workplace, and during the “enslavement of peasants” from 1927 to 1970, approximately 60 million peasants moved to the city and received passports. And more importantly, received a residence permit.
                        A. Zinoviev wrote that his mother did her best to attach children to the city. But to the question how it relates to collective farms, she answered, "It was a salvation for us."
                        The particulars are interesting, but do not give a complete picture. A simple question from the school course, why do we need collectivization and industrialization? And it is in this sequence. Answers about the cannibal Stalin and the monster Beria are not accepted. There are quite reasonable economic answers.
          3. 0
            30 September 2017
            my little gods ... again a mossy stamp ..ssssr imported only Fodder grain .. for cattle feed. in Russia it has always been a sore point .... when will you have your own thoughts then ...
            1. +1
              October 1 2017
              Not true. The USSR imported grain and feed and food. Moreover, the greater part is not lower than 3rd grade.
              I am not going to do propaganda. Truth is just needed. For example, under a trade agreement with Germany, the USSR supplied Germany with 1 million tons of feed-grain. So with the Stalinist method of farming, this was not a sore point. And this despite the fact that the number of livestock in the USSR itself also increased.
      2. 0
        April 21 2018
        What a good Nick!
  35. +1
    28 September 2017
    Boris55,
    Quote: Boris55
    It is clear that Marx uses in this case concepts (categories) that are quite consistent with capitalist relations. But it is now more than strange to use these concepts when the working class is not only not devoid of power and means of production, but, on the contrary, holds power in its hands and owns the means of production. Now, under our system, the words about labor as a product, and about the “hiring” of workers sound rather absurd: as if the working class, which owns the means of production, hires itself and sells its own labor to itself. It is just as strange now to speak of “necessary” and “surplus” labor: as if labor in our conditions, given to society for expanding production, developing education, healthcare, organizing defense, etc., is not equally necessary for the working class now in power, as well as the labor expended to cover the personal needs of the worker and his family.

    Utter nonsense! You are being deceived, and you, like a sucker pedal, believe! I repeat once again: stop believing the word with your KOBovsky "guru". Read the original sources for yourself. And, only after that decide to believe your "guru", or not.
  36. +2
    28 September 2017
    Boris55,
    Quote: Boris55
    We could tolerate this discrepancy until a certain time, but now the time has come when we must finally eliminate this discrepancy ... "

    Thank you for a very good quote from Stalin's work “The Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR” (1952), but I hope you understand it correctly, IV Stalin does not reject K. Marx and F. Engels, he simply offers categories that characterize capitalism, and which some Soviet economists tried to apply for the analysis of socialism, with others that correspond to the modern economy of the USSR, for example, in particular, he proposed replacing the category of "surplus value" with the category of "surplus product". The private owner alone receives surplus value and rides to the Maldives, while the "Soviet surplus" was received by the Soviet state and distributed it through social funds to all members of socialist society.
  37. 0
    29 September 2017
    Han Tengri,
    Have we already switched to math?
    6% is no longer an error. And 2 million employed in artels and workshops is a lot.
  38. +1
    29 September 2017
    Alexander Green,
    Believe Kara-Murze is also not worth it, he is not a Bolshevik and does not adhere to the class approach to the analysis of current events.

    That's it, I absolutely agree with you. We must talk about Marxism / read a Marxist, perhaps a philosopher, not a chemist with all due respect to him, just as you should not listen / read an electrician / physical education teacher, not a professional doctor. There is a danger of drinking urine in the literal and figurative sense.
    1. +1
      29 September 2017
      Doctor of Chemical Sciences. Professor, author of works on the history of the USSR, theorist of science, sociologist, political scientist and publicist. He is a supporter of the "Soviet project". Member of the Union of Writers of Russia. Chief Researcher, Institute of Social and Political Studies, RAS. Member of the Expert Council of the Political Journal. Head of the Department of Complex Problems of Science Development of the Russian Research Institute of Economics, Politics and Law in the Field of Science and Technology. Research interests: crisis research, science of science. The work of S. G. Kara-Murza “Soviet Civilization” is included in the book series by Algorithm and Eksmo publishers "Classics of Russian thought. The work of S. Kara-Murza “Manipulation of consciousness” is included in the training courses of some Russian universities in sociology.

      Doctor of Science, means a fairly educated person, political scientist and economist. But you can drink the urine of true Marxisites. Half of which are two heads below S. Kara-Murza.
      For comparison. I studied with doctors of science and academicians in the field of oil and geology. The academician put a failure on operation and development if the student was not in the theater for one month. Or he could not quote any famous philosopher. Doctor of Sciences in Geology wrote poetry and was well versed in politics. The bulk of the "pure Marxists" spoke in cliches and there was absolutely nothing to talk about with them.
      Each has its own sources of knowledge of the world. I like mine more
      1. +1
        29 September 2017
        There is no doubt that everyone has their own sources of knowledge of the world. I prefer professionals. Himself, he has shone his profession for half his life and I can judge that specialists of a wide profile, usually not specialists at all, "are both a Swiss, a reaper, and a dude." Perhaps a person in chemistry has reached unprecedented heights and therefore switched to other scientific disciplines. Maybe. But the fact that he is not a Marxist is for sure, and therefore his “Soviet project” can be left in quotation marks. Under the "Soviet project" lies a well-arranged sabotage under the communist ideology. No one will deny S.Kara-Murza’s high intellect and encyclopedic knowledge, but he works for the bourgeois.
        1. +1
          29 September 2017
          Strange, but the "bourgeois" hate him. A person works as a chemist and at the same time has been teaching and writing on the topic of sociology and economics for about 20 years. He is a specialist in sociology and political science. Everyone will recognize this. Well, except for you.
          1. +1
            30 September 2017
            You also see what you want, like your opponent up the branch? I am writing about the ideological component, “But the fact that he is not a Marxist is for sure”, just like you, in spite of your positive attitude to Stalin’s politics, he can write anything, but at the same time not be a Marxist.
  39. 0
    29 September 2017
    Alexander Green,
    This is precisely the class approach to commodity-money relations that does not work.
    1. +1
      29 September 2017
      Quote: Bakht
      This is precisely the class approach to commodity-money relations that does not work.

      Here you are wrong. Just the class approach is of great importance. Under the dictatorship of the proletariat, commodity-money relations do not lead to the restoration of capitalism. but it was worth Khrushchev to declare that we have a nation-wide state, and the CPSU is the party of the whole people, as the creeping restoration of capitalism began, and commodity-money relations, which persisted at that time, played an important role here.
      1. 0
        29 September 2017
        So were commodity-money relations under Stalin or not? Nationwide or what else - it does not matter. The 1936 Constitution (Stalin) abolished the dictatorship of the proletariat and proclaimed the public property
        Article 6. Land, its subsoil, water, forests, factories, factories, mines, mines, railway, water and air transport, banks, communications, state-owned large agricultural enterprises (state farms, machine and tractor stations, etc.), as well as utilities and the main housing stock in cities and industrial centers are state property, that is, the national property.
        1. +1
          29 September 2017
          Quote: Bakht
          So were commodity-money relations under Stalin or not? Nationwide or what else - it does not matter. The 1936 Constitution (Stalin) abolished the dictatorship of the proletariat and proclaimed the public property


          Commodity-money relations under I.V. There were Stalin, and in his work “The economic problems of socialism in the USSR” he only touched on ways to overcome them.
          But with the abolition of the dictatorship of the proletariat, you are wrong. The concept of the dictatorship of the proletariat was preserved in the 1936 Constitution, the only thing is that a number of restrictions were lifted in the electoral system, which did not contradict the dictatorship of the proletariat ..

          If the Constitution of 1936 states that the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is the socialist state of workers and peasants, and that
          all power in the USSR belongs working people of the city and village in the person of Councils of Workers' Deputies (Article 3), the 1977 Constitution already states that the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is socialist nation-wide state, and the people exercise state power through Councils of deputies. Feel the difference

          This retreat was preceded by the adoption of the 1961 CPSU Program under Khrushchev, where it was recorded
          “... The dictatorship of the proletariat born of the socialist revolution played a world-historical role, ensuring the victory of socialism in the USSR. At the same time, in the process of building socialism, it itself underwent changes ... .. The process of the development of the state into a nation-wide organization of workers in socialist society began. ...
          ... Having ensured the complete and final victory of socialism - the first phase of communism - and the transition of society to the expanded construction of communism, The dictatorship of the proletariat fulfilled its historical mission and from the point of view of the tasks of internal development ceased to be necessary in the USSR. Statewhich emerged as a state of the dictatorship of the proletariat, turned into a nation-wide state at a new, modern stage... ".
          1. 0
            29 September 2017
            And how did this lead to the collapse of socialism? That is, the dictatorship of the proletariat would be preserved and everything would be in openwork?
            1. 0
              30 September 2017
              Quote: Bakht
              That is, the dictatorship of the proletariat would be preserved and everything would be in openwork?

              True, under the dictatorship of the proletariat, both socialism and a single Soviet state would not have collapsed.
  40. +1
    29 September 2017
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Whispering in the night
    The horrors created by collective farm activists, described by him in these letters only with fascism or genocide, can be compared with nothing more!

    No exaggeration. This you can tell your grandchildren in order to raise anti-advisers from them. And I know this information and the mouth of my parents and relatives

    When there will be grandchildren, I will tell my grandchildren, but for now I explain to the children about the Bolsheviks so that they don’t get into trouble when they grow up.
    And as for “do not exaggerate” - well, to quote a little Sholokhov, I hope you won’t blame him for anti-Soviet agitation or call him “Solzhenitsyn”? I repeat, these collective farm activists described by Sholokhov not only had to be killed from around the corner, just like the "fists" did, but hanged, hanged and hanged again, because they deserved it!

    From the letters of Sholokhov to Stalin:
    "At the Grachevsky collective farm, during the interrogation, the authorized representative of the Republic of Kazakhstan hung the collective farmers by the neck to the ceiling, continued to interrogate the half-strangled, then on a belt led to the river, kicked him on the way, put him on his knees on ice and continued interrogation."

    “Sharapov judged the work of the commissioner or cell secretary not only by the number of bread found, but also by the number of families thrown out of the houses, by the number of roofs uncovered during searches and collapsed stoves.“ He felt sorry for the kids to throw out in the cold! “Let them squeak like puppies, but we will break sabotage!”, - Sharapov, secretary of the cell of the Malakhovsky collective farm, shook out at the bureau of the Republic of Kazakhstan Sharapov because he showed some hesitation during the mass eviction of collective farm families into the street. "

    “A woman with a baby was evicted at the Bazkovsky collective farm. She went to the farm all night and asked to be allowed to warm up with the child. They didn’t let go, fearing that they themselves would not be evicted. In the morning the child froze in her mother’s arms. The mother herself froze. This woman was evicted by a party candidate, an employee of the Bazkovsky collective farm. "

    “On the Zatonskiy collective farm, an agitation column worker beat up interrogators with a saber. On the same collective farm they mocked the families of the Red Army, opening roofs of houses, breaking down stoves, forcing women to cohabit.”

    “These examples can be infinitely multiplied. These are not individual cases of bends, this is the“ method ”of grain harvesting legalized on a district scale, I either heard from the Communists, or from the collective farmers themselves, who experienced all these“ methods ”on themselves and after came to me with a request to “write about it in the newspaper."
    Art. Veshenskaya JCC April 4, 1933 With greetings M. Sholokhov.
    APRF, f. 45. op. 1, d. 827, l. 7-22. The original.
    1. +2
      29 September 2017
      Quote: Whispering in the night
      When there will be grandchildren, I will tell my grandchildren, but for now I explain to the children about the Bolsheviks so that they don’t get into trouble when they grow up.

      In vain, of course, because when the people rise to the revolution and your grandchildren go against the people, they will simply be crushed. So think about their future, as the transition to socialism is inevitable; this is the law of the development of society.
      Quote: Whispering in the night
      Greetings M. Sholokhov.

      I hope you know what happened to Sharapov. And this is just the class struggle in the countryside. Enemies of collective farm construction were not only among the kulaks, but also among state, Soviet and even party workers. They did everything to anger the people and frustrate collectivization. Enemies were open and secret. Fists without the support of the opposition would not dare to oppose the Soviet regime.
    2. 0
      April 21 2018
      The activists were who, Jewish comrades!
  41. +1
    29 September 2017
    Quote: Alexander Green

    This is a historical fact only for the hypertrophied brains of the Black Hundreds.

    Result: Russians - 15 (83%), 1 Jew, 1 Pole, 1 Georgians.


    So what? Do you think this is an exhaustive analysis of the issue? But what about the party leadership? And if you take into account the degree of influence of individuals on general politics? And the percentage of presence in the repressive apparatus, especially in the early years, during the red terror? And the impact on key moments like the same murder of the imperial couple?
    Just take a list of members of the first Council of People's Commissars and indicate how many of them were Jews — this is a banal primitivization of the problem, a simplification. But even if you go this way. Even if we are talking about 17% as part of the Council of People's Commissars (although the true origin of the rest can be verified, at least the same Ulyanov, whom you somehow unambiguously recorded in the Great Russians, you also need to take into account wives / husbands, as well as people who influenced and .p.), and what was the percentage of the Jewish population of Russia then? Do you know? As of 1914, 3,1%! (http://www.eleven.co.il/article/15443) That is, representation in the first Council of People's Commissars almost 6 times exceeded their proportional representation in society! Does this not tell you anything? And then, as indicated in the cited source: "estimates of the number of Jews in Russia at 1825 and 1914, which are found in the works of Y. Leshchinsky and other specialists, seem overstated." That is, they could not even be 3,1%, but much less. Maybe 2%, maybe 1% ... And in the Council of People's Commissars - 17%!
    And the most important thing. You know, "the eyes have, and they will not see; the ears have, and they will not hear." The question of the participation of Jews, not only in Russian, but in all the revolutions of modern and recent times, is so significant that they have been talked about for hundreds of years. It seems to me that you need to be the perfect blind man in order not to see the obvious.
    However, for an unbeliever this is really impossible ... As our great saint Ignatius Brianchaninov wrote: “I find it necessary to expound the doctrine of the man’s blind blindness, acquired through the fall. Most people are alien to any idea of ​​this blindness, they don’t even suspect its existence! " So it is not surprising that many Russian people like you (if you are Russian) could well work in the first Council of People's Commissars, without even knowing who and whose idea they were actually working for.
    1. +1
      29 September 2017
      Quote: gorgo
      Just take a list of members of the first Council of People's Commissars and indicate how many of them were Jews — this is a banal primitivization of the problem, a simplification.

      It is primitive to include all Jews in a certain “Jewish conspiracy” exclusively on a national basis. Moreover, during the revolution no one looked at you as a Jew, either Russian or Ukrainian, there was an international brotherhood of workers, because there is nothing for workers to divide. Even Trotsky, when, hoping for his Jewishness, a delegation of wealthy Jews came to him asking them to leave their case alone, he answered them: "I am not a Jew, I am a communist."
      1. 0
        April 21 2018
        Well, right the Lamb, here are just a few in leather jackets walked to recognize their own.
        1. +1
          April 22 2018
          Quote: Schima68
          Well, right the Lamb, here are just a few in leather jackets walked to recognize their own.

          And here is another little trollie appeared.
  42. +1
    29 September 2017
    Quote: Bakht
    Well, so I advised to go to Krasnodar, Stavropol and inquire about the number of victims with private property. Stalin never dreamed of. Hoes are just the tip of the iceberg. Now the land is privately owned by garbage and garbage.

    I have no doubt how much now in the Krasnodar Territory the ball is ruled by the mafia, the union of bandits and government officials of various ranks, from administrative to law enforcement and judges. However, regarding the comparative number of victims, you are clearly cunning, Stalin's collectivization, directly and indirectly (including the resulting famine), claimed millions of innocent lives, in Putin's Russia, despite all its cockroaches, this is impossible by definition.
  43. +1
    29 September 2017
    Quote: Alexander Green

    It is primitive to include all Jews in a certain “Jewish conspiracy” exclusively on ethnic grounds. Moreover, during the revolution no one looked at you as a Jew, either Russian or Ukrainian, there was an international brotherhood of working people, because the workers have nothing to divide.


    You know, firstly, what the international brotherhood of the working people was like, we don’t know, we weren’t there. And secondly, I did not seem to include all Jews on a national basis in the Jewish conspiracy. I just stated a fact, long ago established by many bright heads (you can easily find the monumental works of many people) that the influence of Jews on the revolution was enormous.
    And the essence of the Jewish question is that they cannot be trusted. Why? Yes, because Judaism is the only (I emphasize) religion, not only justifying, but also prescribing a lie to its faithful adherents in relation to representatives of other cultures. In other words, when a Jew speaks a lie, the IO does not violate the commandments of his creed (as in all other religions), but fulfills it. Therefore, he can say that he is a communist, internationalist, democrat, humanist, even a Christian, even an Orthodox Christian or an atheist, and at the same time remain a convinced Jew, strictly fulfilling his commandments known to him, including those that are very aggressive towards other people. And our revolution has shown a lot of things in this sense. For example, pathological hatred of Christianity, resulting in the physical and brutal destruction of temples, the priesthood, monasticism, which in general had nothing to do with the class struggle.
    1. +1
      29 September 2017
      Quote: gorgo
      Judaism is the only (I emphasize) religion, which not only justifies, but also prescribes a lie to its faithful adherents in relation to representatives of other cultures.

      Firstly, the Muslims are not the only one who has a specific attitude towards infidels. Secondly, the Jewish Communists were atheists, and the fact that a person is a Jew does not mean that he is involved in the Jewish environment and attributing to them a kind of "Jewish conspiracy" is simply ridiculous. Moreover, the Mensheviks had the most Jews, and these were quiet, respectable Social Democrats.
      Quote: gorgo
      pathological hatred of Christianity, resulting in the physical and brutal destruction of temples, the priesthood, monasticism, which had in general nothing to do with the class struggle.

      Any religion serves to enslave the people, when the revolution took place, all the churches and monasteries became the refuge of the counter-revolutionaries, and repressed priests and monks not because they were servants of God, but because they participated in the struggle against the Soviet regime. And the temples did not destroy everything, those temples that were of real artistic value were preserved. In Russia, there were many temples built according to a standard design, something like Khrushchev, they were closed because the number of parishioners under the Soviet regime sharply decreased.
  44. +1
    29 September 2017
    Bakht,
    You correctly state everything, build the logical chain "industrialization - collectivization". You write that the state needed all this.
    Absolutely agree. Only in your chain you close your eyes to the very beginning link - why all this was necessary Soviet to the state?
    And it was necessary then that the Soviet state turned the country into a military camp and, thanks to its immoderate demagogy about the world revolution and friendship of peoples, quarreled with all civilized peoples of the world.
    And unlike the ever-memorable Russian Empire, which consisted of friendly relations with all normal countries, the young owl. state was one in the camp of enemies.
    This happened purely due to the fault of the Soviet leadership - its ideology and actions. And in order to survive the leadership this harnesses the Russian people to nowhere. Chases him in sharashka, camps, collective farms, etc.
    All this was really necessary for that state, but not for the Russian people.
    The Communists made a lot of irreparable mistakes and heroically solved them at the cost of popular blood.
    And now you tell me how wonderful and necessary it was.
    I disagree with this, since the Communists are one thing (parasites on the people's back), and the people are another.
    And what lice need, its carrier does not need.
    1. +1
      29 September 2017
      Quote: Fenrir48
      I disagree with this, since the Communists are one thing (parasites on the people's back), and the people are another.
      And what lice need, its carrier does not need.


      The parasites on the body of the people were the royal family, landowners, nobles, capitalists, clergy and others. Thanks to the Communists, under their leadership, the people threw them.
      The Communists were never parasites, they worked 24 hours a day, the first were at construction sites, the first were in battle, only during the Great Patriotic War three members of the Communist Party died, and this is several million people.
      1. 0
        30 September 2017
        Quote: Alexander Green

        The Communists were never parasites, they worked 24 hours a day ...

        There are no complaints against ordinary communists, they really honestly worked each in their own place, and they defended their homeland and perished just like non-partisans, etc. etc. But the so-called party nomenclature was just parasites on the body of the people, lovers of special distributors, special buffets and other privileges, there was no sense from it, one sheer harm.
        1. 0
          30 September 2017
          Quote: Whispering in the night
          But the so-called party nomenclature was just parasites on the body of the people, lovers of special distributors, special buffets and other privileges, there was no sense from it, one sheer harm.

          Well, you too are building it in vain, you can’t fit all under one comb. The nomenclature led and organized production, there were all kinds of them. But under Stalin, the nomenclature served the people and really worked for 24 hours. Stalin understood the corporate interest of the nomenclature and did not allow her to fatten, moved from place to place, did not allow her people to be dragged along, and if they were seen as something unrighteous in the reborn representatives, they lost their post, party membership card, and sometimes life. It was under Khrushchev-Brezhnev-Gorbachev that the nomenclature was overgrown with fat, and its most vile representatives repaired capitalism in the country.
      2. +1
        30 September 2017
        Quote: Alexander Green
        The parasites on the body of the people were the royal family, landowners, nobles, capitalists, clergy and others

        All historical Russia was created by these parasites - from Warsaw to Kamchatka. If for you the whole history of Russia until the year 17 is a solid black spot of exploitation, suppression and parasitism, then you are not Russian and there is nothing to talk about with you.
        1. 0
          30 September 2017
          Quote: Fenrir48
          All historical Russia was created by these parasites - from Warsaw to Kamchatka. If for you the whole history of Russia until the year 17 is a solid black spot of exploitation, suppression and parasitism, then you are not Russian and there is nothing to talk about with you.

          First, ordinary people gathered all the lands of Russia, they mastered the north, south, east and even climbed into Alaska, which, by the way, the rulers you protected underestimated.
          Secondly, I myself am Russian, Green is a shortened cliche formed from my last name, but I have to admit the fact that with the beginning of serfdom and the development of capitalism in Russia, the country's history until the age of 17 became a complete black spot of exploitation, suppression and parasitism. Otherwise there would be no socialist revolution.
          1. +2
            30 September 2017
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Firstly, all the lands of Russia were collected by ordinary people, it was he who mastered the north, south, east and even climbed to Alaska,

            This is as stupid as the assertion of certain figures that the Soviet people won the Great Patriotic War without the participation of Stalin and whom. party. And, if I say this, you are sure to immediately raise high on me. But at the same time, quite calmly repeat this stupidity regarding tsarism that you hate.
            This is sheer distortion and double standards.
            Ermak did not send messengers for help to the common people - but to the king. And not just ordinary people, but the tsar and his administration regularly sent military units to Siberia, collected at the expense of the treasury and salaries to service people.
            So do not talk nonsense.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            that with the beginning of serfdom and the development of capitalism in Russia, the country's history until the year 17 became a continuous black spot for exploitation, suppression and parasitism

            Russian people have an elementary respect for the historical form of organization, existence, religion of the Russian people. With this form, a thousand-year-old, viable state was created, smashing all its enemies and repeatedly successfully modernizing.
            So you are not Russian. And your social. the revolution has rotted and perished in 70 years.
            1. +1
              October 1 2017
              Quote: Fenrir48
              Russian people have an elementary respect for the historical form of organization, existence, religion of the Russian people. With this form, a thousand-year-old, viable state was created, smashing all its enemies and repeatedly successfully modernizing.

              Here I do not understand, do you mean monarchy or Orthodoxy?

              As for the leadership in the development of distant lands by the kings, a controversial issue, and a comparison with the Great Patriotic War is incorrect.
              Firstly, the tsarist government, as always, never had enough money to develop the north to the annexed east and Alaska, basically everything was used up by the discoverers' private money, even Yermak went to Siberia at his own peril and risk, because the tsar did not give the go-ahead on this hike.
              Secondly, how can one manage the development of lands from St. Petersburg, to which it takes more than six months to get to. Not a single decree comes on time.
              And about my Russianness, I already wrote.
              1. 0
                October 1 2017
                Quote: Alexander Green
                Ermak went to Siberia at his own peril and risk, because the king did not give the green light to this campaign.

                Ermak went there, supplied with the Stroganovs money for a very specific purpose from them, and not by himself.
                Quote: Alexander Green
                Secondly, how can one manage the development of lands from St. Petersburg, to which it takes more than six months to get to. Not a single decree comes on time.

                Those. did the tsars not send a governor to Siberia, archery units, wheat, salaries to people? By their decree did not build a prison or city?
                I am forced to declare in this case that the simple people won the Second World War, and Stalin and his brothers only got in the way.
                It is impossible to lead the Battle of Stalingrad from the Kremlin. Only Stalin will make a decision, and the situation has already changed.
                1. 0
                  October 3 2017
                  Quote: Fenrir48
                  It is impossible to lead the Battle of Stalingrad from the Kremlin. Only Stalin will make a decision, and the situation has already changed.

                  You primitively imagine the management, as well as the situation in Stalingrad and at the beginning of the war. At the beginning of the war, communications with the troops of the Western District were lost, and in Stalingrad communications were at their best.
    2. +1
      30 September 2017
      Honestly, I wanted to end the discussion. But your passage ...
      When I read "civilized peoples" there is nothing further to talk about. These “civilized” unleashed hundreds of wars, including two world wars, destroyed several unique civilizations, robbed the whole world and now carry “civilization” with bombs and missiles. "Democracy must be introduced by any means available up to the hydrogen bomb." By the way, nuclear weapons were also used by civilized ones. Apart from them, no one dared.
      Didn’t the Russian people need? The crusade against Russia and the schismatics has not been canceled. It has existed for at least 700 years. The pope announced. Drang nah Osten stopped the people. But ... is it possible without government?
      There is no point in arguing. Read the story, look around. The plan for the development of Russian lands to the Volga was not invented by the Nazis. It was created in 1915 against even tsarist Russia.
      Read why the allies did not help Denikin. A million arguments against your words.
      Even members of the royal family in the West recognized the merits of the Communists in preserving Russia.
      PS True, like a faceted glass. Although they say that the truth is one, but there are many faces. But do not tell me about the "civilized" ones. These are predatory trogoditids, adelphophages
      1. 0
        30 September 2017
        Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich
        The executors of European destinies, apparently admiring their own ingenuity: they hoped with one blow to kill the Bolsheviks and the possibility of the revival of a strong Russia.
        The position of the leaders of the white movement became impossible. On the one hand, pretending that they did not notice the intrigues of the Allies, they urged their barefoot volunteers to a holy struggle against the Soviets, on the other hand - the guard of Russian national interests was none other than the internationalist Lenin, who in his constant speeches did not spare his strength to protest against the division of the former Russian Empire, appealing to the working people of the whole world.

        http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/a-m/index.htm
        l
      2. +1
        30 September 2017
        Quote: Bakht
        These “civilized” unleashed hundreds of wars, including two world wars, destroyed several unique civilizations, robbed the whole world and now carry “civilization” with bombs and missiles

        Yes, any normal state is engaged in the fact that it unleashes wars and is engaged in expansion. If it does not do this, then it degrades and is destroyed.
        The Russian Empire unleashed wars, the Soviet Union did the same - including it played a large role in unleashing the Second World War.
        Tell other tales to the pioneers.
        By the way, nuclear weapons were also used by civilized ones. Apart from them, no one dared.

        Well applied and what? Do you like the Japanese, are they your relatives? I - no, I do not care about them. There was a war, the Japanese committed massive crimes - for which they responded.
        Quote: Bakht
        Didn’t the Russian people need? The crusade against Russia and the schismatics has not been canceled. It has existed for at least 700 years. The pope announced. Drang nah Osten stopped the people. But ... is it possible without government?

        Yes, that's right - but what about the Bolsheviks? I am not at all against the state as such - not an anarchist. I am against the Bolshevik godless state.
        70 years of ongoing confrontation with the main states of the world. When else in the history of Russia was this? Never. Only the Communists were able to drive Russia into such a hole.
        Quote: Bakht
        Even members of the royal family in the West recognized the merits of the Communists in preserving Russia.

        Yes pah on them - on the members. They bear great responsibility for the collapse of Russia and therefore their words are not worth a penny. These members were to die first with weapons in their hands, protecting their emperor. Instead, they piled on the West to write nonsense.
        Quote: Bakht
        But do not tell me about the "civilized" ones. These are predatory trogoditids, adelphophages

        Once again, all the major states on the world stage are predatory, aggressive formations alien to good and justice.
        Forever and ever. Amen)
        1. +3
          30 September 2017
          You are nonsense and not a single argument, except for voice stamps. And to say that the USSR is responsible for unleashing the Second World War is a direct lie.
          When you read liberal propaganda, at least look out the window. Now is the year 2017. Just 100 years have passed.
          Zbigniew Brzezinski "Do not deceive yourself. We did not fight against communism. We fought against Russia. And no matter what it is called. Monarchist, communist or democratic. The goal was to destroy and dismember Russia." And you propose to be friends with these ...?
          There is a war. And if the guns don’t shoot, then the stinker still goes. They want to destroy your people.
          For 100 years, Russia has lost Finland, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Central Asia, and Transcaucasia. In the north. Caucasus war. The Russians were expelled from everywhere. Millions of refugees, millions of dead, tens of millions of unborn.
          Want peace with the West? With these "civilized, developed" countries? Go to the Maidan, remove Putin, return the Crimea, leave Syria. Then lower your pants and stand in a pose.
          And then you will be accepted into the family of civilized developed countries.
          You are talking nonsense ...
          1. 0
            30 September 2017
            Quote: Bakht
            And you propose to be friends with these ...?

            What makes you think that I offer this? You need to be friends with the girls. And with other states it is necessary to observe equal relations based on mutual respect and fear. And only with those states that can cause us serious damage. You can easily spit on all the others. Approximately like the USSR to Czechoslovakia during the Prague Spring.
            Quote: Bakht
            For 100 years, Russia has lost Finland, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Central Asia, Transcaucasia

            And all this our people achieved under the leadership of the Bolshevik party. Starting with a raunchy world and ending with Gorbachev. All in one track. Thanks to the party native.
            Quote: Bakht
            Want peace with the West? With these "civilized, developed" countries? Go to the Maidan, remove Putin, return the Crimea, leave Syria.

            This is not a topic at all. This is you about your sore point. The Russian people should not give a damn about the West and Syria from the bell tower, close the borders and take up their sick soul and their reproduction.
            1. +1
              October 1 2017
              You wrote that 70 years of hostility with other countries is not normal. Hence the controversy. Lost territories it is not the Bolsheviks did. Read the story. Over the entire 20th century, the restoration of territories was led by Stalin. I don’t put a party at all. The restoration of territories, the rise of agriculture, the creation of a modern industry, the victory over all of Europe are all the merits of Stalin. And the socialist way of managing.
        2. +1
          30 September 2017
          Quote: Fenrir48
          By the way, nuclear weapons were also used by civilized ones. Apart from them, no one dared.

          Well applied and what? Do you like the Japanese, are they your relatives? I - no, I do not care about them. There was a war, the Japanese committed massive crimes - for which they responded.

          It's a shame to say that. You, for sure, are Christian and Orthodox. From these barbaric bombings, ordinary people died - women, old people, children. Just those who committed mass crimes remained unpunished.
          1. +1
            30 September 2017
            Quote: Alexander Green
            It's a shame to say that. You are probably a Christian and an Orthodox

            And from the fact that during the Winter War, Soviet aircraft bombed Helsinki, are you not ashamed?
            And from the fact that at the beginning of the Second World War aviation struck Berlin, you do not cry at night?
            It’s a pity the German children ...
            Or were Soviet bombs ideologically savvy and stopudovo only fell into the NSDAP?
            1. +1
              30 September 2017
              Quote: Fenrir48
              Or were Soviet bombs ideologically savvy and stopudovo only fell into the NSDAP?

              Soviet bombs were not weapons of mass destruction, and the bombing of German and Finnish cities was carried out in response to the bombing of ours.
              But the use of atomic weapons was not necessary, the war in Japan was already lost, and the bombs were dropped for one purpose - to test the effects of atomic weapons on people. Feel the difference.
              1. +1
                October 1 2017
                Quote: Alexander Green
                Soviet bombs were not weapons of mass destruction

                And what was the Soviet bomb falling on Helsinki? Weapons of individual defeat? Those. if she kills for example 20 Finnish children - is that normal? It was necessary?
                Quote: Alexander Green
                the bombing of German and Finnish cities was carried out in response to the bombing of ours.

                Remind me - what kind of Soviet cities did the Finns bomb during the Winter War? Something I forgot.
                Quote: Alexander Green
                the bombs were dropped for one purpose - to test the effects of atomic weapons on people.

                Any weapon is created precisely for these purposes - to test on people. They introduce a new tank, a flamethrower and test it on the enemy.
                No options. Absolutely the same with the atomic bomb.
                1. 0
                  October 1 2017
                  Quote: Fenrir48
                  And what was the Soviet bomb falling on Helsinki? Weapons of individual defeat? Those. if she kills for example 20 Finnish children - is that normal? It was necessary?

                  You that do not distinguish weapons of mass destruction from simple lethal weapons? And the USSR did not bomb the city of Helsinki, it bombed the airfields from which German planes bombed Leningrad. In the Finnish war, the USSR did not bomb Finland’s settlements at all, so it’s enough to come up with non-existing problems.
                  Quote: Fenrir48
                  Any weapon is created precisely for these purposes - to test on people. They introduce a new tank, a flamethrower and test it on the enemy.
                  No options. Absolutely the same with the atomic bomb.

                  In fact, weapons are tested at training grounds, they are used against the enemy. But the inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were just testing atomic weapons and the US has no excuse. You alone approve of this barbaric bombardment.
                  1. 0
                    October 1 2017
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    And the USSR did not bomb the city of Helsinki, it bombed the airfields from which German planes bombed Leningrad. In the Finnish war, the USSR did not bomb Finland’s settlements at all, so it’s enough to come up with non-existing problems.

                    With your amazing abilities to lie, dodge and deny the obvious facts, the direct path to the State deputies is yours. Thoughts )))
                    November 30, 1939, a massive bombing attack on the capital of Finland - Helsinki was carried out by the 3rd squadron of the 1st MTAP (mine and torpedo aviation regiment, commander - Major N. A. Tokarev). In its combat structure, there were 15 DB-3b aircraft. The bombing was carried out from a height of about 1500 m high-explosive bombs FAB 500 and FAB 100.
                    The bombing was completely unexpected for the population of the Finnish capital and was accompanied by relatively large casualties. The fire bark in Helsinki was observed in those days even from the other side of the Gulf of Finland from Tallinn. Photographs of the devastation in Helsinki circled the editorials of newspapers around the world and played an important role in the exclusion of the USSR from the League of Nations on December 14.



                    bombs fell in the area of ​​Frederiksgatan Street 3, between the Technical University and the bus station, in a densely populated place of the capital. As a result of the raid, 91 people were killed, another 236 civilians were injured, including 36 were seriously injured. That same evening, the Finnish authorities decided to evacuate the parliament in Kauhayoki, which is 300 km from the capital
                    Let me predict your answer to this - is all this a lie and the inventions of bourgeois propaganda who want to discredit the young and immaculate power of the workers and peasants?
                    I have no desire to discuss something with notorious liars.
                    1. 0
                      October 3 2017
                      Quote: Fenrir48
                      I have no desire to discuss something with notorious liars.

                      Well, what do you want to show this? That the USSR is the same vandal as the USA?
                      Will not work. Different scales, different goals, different orders, different intentions. Read less all revisionists from holocaust sites
                      .
                      The bombing of the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the United States of America is a pre-planned barbaric action against civilians with the aim of testing atomic weapons.

                      In Finland there was no order to bomb the city, the goal was the port, ships, oil storage, there was not even a reserve target. Bombs fell on residential quarters, either by mistake, roofing felts due to the sloppiness of the squadron commander Tokarev.

                      In total, about 10 tons of bombs were dropped, in which TNT was even less. While atomic bombs in TNT equivalent were 18 and 000 tons of TNT.
                      In Hiroshima, between 90 and 000 people died, in Nagasaki, between 166 and 000. People — in Finland, only 60 people.
                      Are these numbers comparable ?!

                      Yes, you are just a hypocrite, old man, and a slanderer who casts a shadow on the fence on a clear day, you start a song about a baby’s tear, and you justify the barbaric bombing of Japanese cities, and not just justify, but also emphasize that the Japanese need it ... .

                      Something is wrong with your head, a normal person will not say that.
                      1. +2
                        October 4 2017
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        That the USSR is the same vandal as the USA?

                        Worse ... You, the Communists, have destroyed your citizens in peacetime by millions - hunger, cold, shootings. And the United States-aliens in the war.
                        But you, the Communists, are naturally more interested in the Japanese and blacks in Africa than the Russian peasants, nobles and priests.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Bombs fell on residential quarters, either by mistake, roofing felts due to the sloppiness of the squadron commander Tokarev.

                        You finish lying and at least find out that according to the results of the raid Tokarev received the state. reward. If for a mistake or sloppiness, then this characterizes the Soviets in the right way.
  45. 0
    30 September 2017
    Whispering in the nightspeaking a mouth, I meant that you could only grind with your tongue .. and not what you thought. It wouldn’t even occur to me. But who and where what experience you got is not for you to judge. You didn’t even serve day-for that climb to the military site to teach.
    1. 0
      October 1 2017
      Well, your plebeian jargon is hard to understand. And about the "did not serve a day" - that's where you got such "clairvoyants" from which gate? Well, why I or someone else from your opponents does not tell you about your life, because I don’t know anything about her, what are you, red, almost through one such flawed all, trying with a clever look and with an immeasurable aplomb tell your counterparts about which you have no idea?
      1. 0
        October 1 2017
        God give me patience ... you do not have to be a clairvoyant in order to understand the simplest truths from a conversation. Still try to think, it helps. Otherwise, you will look stupid ...
        1. +1
          October 1 2017
          Well, patient, ours, I explain to you, as well as to all others especially gifted and enlightened, that about “I didn’t serve a day” you, as it were, more delicately put it, so as not to offend, you hit the sky with your finger, say so. I honestly gave my debt to the Motherland in the small town of Kstovo, Nizhny Novgorod Region, when he was two years old. And end already with your clairvoyance, my friendly advice to you, well, you don’t pull on a seer, but only cause a homeric grin with your opuses!

          Do better self-education, because your illiterate, with an abundance of mistakes, scribble hurt your eyes, do not disgrace the Soviet education ...))
          1. 0
            October 1 2017
            oh I don’t believe ... the process of constructing phrases and the way of thinking gives a maximum of 35 years .. although if this is true then everything is sad .. and especially for you, there is an editor who emphasizes mistakes. And about education, this is told to me by a person who still I have never written my own phrase. I have not cited any evidence other than bullshit. And yes, I am a ruddy ... 49 Leningrad operational ... your last blathering USSR bought bread abroad and tsarist Russia only sold it. Yes, it sold. because there was nothing more to export. the most record crop of 1913 was 80 million tons. Per capita there was 471 kg of grain. In France, Germany the same year, 430 kg per capita .. and this was not a record year from them. And they bought bread and we sold. for whose account? by reducing consumption within the country, that is, condemning your people to hunger. Bravo. And once again, when you repeat someone else’s heresy, check and not just stupidly write off. The USSR conducted purchases of only feed grain. This is about education- it’s not for you to talk about literacy if you’re not even able to check someone else’s writings ... it’s strange to be an adult, as you say, and still so stupid ..
            1. 0
              October 1 2017
              It’s violet for me, whether you believe it or not, what I’m definitely not going to do is to make excuses for some unknown Internet trolls, which, do not blame me, I consider you in fact.

              As for the grain, since it doesn’t give you peace (sick corn apparently). The USSR imported various grains, for example, wheat from the USA. I don’t know, maybe she fed her cattle, everything was possible in the Soviet of Deputies, but I like the version that later part of this import was then redirected for export, to all pink Papuans, in fact, for the sake of supporting the brothers in the building of communism. And do not care that their own shelves were half empty.
              Well, if with numbers and calculations, then, I'm sorry, but I no longer believe in your unsubstantiated and nervous chatter, but in official data, here, for example ...
              https://www.politforums.net/monarch/1364018328.ht
              ml
              1. 0
                October 1 2017
                but you don’t have to make excuses. you are not very smart, it’s obvious. As evidence, he’s laying out a broken link .. excellent. the official source is that? well, I understand that you’re mournful, but the official sources do not look like that .. and this is yours stupidity - the USSR imported different grains, for example, wheat from the USA. I don’t know, maybe she fed her cattle, everything was possible in the Soviets, but I like the version that later part of this import was then redirected for export, to all the pink Papuans, for free, in order to support the brothers in the construction of communism. And do not care that their own shelves were half empty. that is, you don’t know anything from a word or a damn thing, but with the greatest aplomb you affirm some truths ... you don’t have a brain, but a garbage dump. Here and go to a garbage dump ..
                1. +1
                  October 2 2017
                  Well, they talked, as always with the ruddy feathers, for lack of other arguments, one continuous rudeness and an endless transition to personalities, where you are only brought up in such a gateway? And, I hope, henceforth save me from my annoying inadequate presence, comrade with a super brain?

                  ps The link is not broken, but working, but if you are not even able to master this elementary action, then yes, then I really am far from you ...)))
  46. 0
    October 22 2017
    With his participation, the execution of the imperial family was organized, you can no longer read further, another propaganda campaign. Long live capitalism, as the highest form of human development, and relevant comments on the article. Taking into account articles about Rus-Aryans and other pseudo-historical nonsense, the Internet resource is getting dumber and dumber. I'm going to read Varspot

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