Russia's political orientation: development or stagnation

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The political confrontation of Westerners and Slavophiles in Russia has been known for several centuries. A certain part, let's say, of the political elite was convinced that Russia is an integral part of a larger Europe, and therefore only planned integration into a single European space should provide Russia with an opportunity for development. Chaadaev, Botkin, Turgenev, Annenkov are bright representatives of the Westernist idea of ​​the historical movement of Russia, who are considering the formation of a new, active Russian society based on the European ideals of humanism and the immutability of the legal system.

I.E. Repin. Plowman. L.N. Tolstoy on arable land. Xnumx


At the same time, the 19th century became the century of the simultaneous formation of another political force, Slavophilism, whose representatives were sure that Russia had, has and will have its own historical a path that differs from both Western principles and Eastern radical absolutism. The path based on the inviolability of the Orthodox faith, autocracy and nationality. These three maxims, as the Slavophiles called them, were obviously a kind of European opposition to “freedom, equality, fraternity”. Representatives of the Slavophile idea at an early stage of its development were Aksakov, Samarin, Kireevsky.

In connection with the emergence of practically diametrically opposed social and political ideas, the first beginnings of a real political struggle appeared in Russia. A new era of confrontation of elites has begun, which in one form or another has reached our days. Different views on the vector of movement of Russia forward led to the fact that the Slavophils accused the Westernizers that they preach anti-patriotic thoughts, and the Westernizers, rejecting such accusations, put forward in turn claims to the Slavophiles that they suffer from a complex of retrograde, which can destroy Russia .

In this case, it is noteworthy to consider how the emerging internal political rivalry in Russia was perceived in the West. Perhaps, Russian affairs would have turned out to be for Europe at that time abroad of its interests if it were not for the established continental-wide policy, about which it is worth saying a few words.

After the victory of Napoleon’s army by the Russian army in 1814-1815, the so-called Congress of Vienna was held. This is, in fact, an epochal event, which for many years has determined the paths for the further development of Europe. Russia, as the winner of the war, insisted on adopting a new legislative base, based on the fact that European liberties of the 1789 model of the year must be ended once and for all. A massive reincarnation of monarchical absolutism in Europe was carried out, bringing to the fore the principles of inviolability of the nobility, ideas of unconditional support of the ruling dynasties and restoration of the economic system based on the class superiority of one social layer over others. In other words, the post-war Russia simply said its word that if we won, then our development concept is the only correct one, and therefore, be so kind as to take it for granted.

Naturally, such principles pleased European monarchists and completely disappointed those who are already accustomed to the fact that development should be carried out on principles close to the principles of open equality (as they would say now, partnership).
Perhaps it was the Congress of Vienna that laid the foundation for all modern European stereotypes about Russia as a country that is trying with all its might to go along the track that was once chosen and does not want to be aware of the need for change. At the same time, the stereotype that Russia should be absolutely afraid to remain is also preserved, because it can again try to bring its vision of the situation to the West using its own methods. It turns out that all modern problems of the West and Russia, open or smoldering in the depths of the confrontation, did not appear after the 1917 year, or even after the Second World War. The birth of a kind of barrier took place just then - in 1815.
But is it worth criticizing the position adopted in relation to Europe by the leadership of Russia at that time. Firstly, we have no moral right to this, and secondly, we should not forget that in 1812, Russia itself was in the balance from a grandiose national catastrophe. And after the invasion of Napoleon’s army, Alexander I was clearly not inclined to confine himself to “peace enforcement,” bringing his troops exclusively to the border with the enemy. He did what he had to do militarily, and he did what he had to do in political terms - he forced the Europeans to live by the laws of the victorious country. And the fact that Europe, to put it mildly, did not like it, well, so here, as they say, Moscow had nothing to burn ... And it would be completely strange to suppose that, bringing the Cossacks to the Elysian Fields, Alexander I would have let the political process in the path that he (the process) was walking before and led to aggression towards Russia. The act of Alexander I, who even condemn somehow, neither the hand nor the tongue does not turn.

But the opposition of Westerners and Slavophils arose precisely on this basis. Both trends attributed themselves to patriots, both trends preached the principles of development, but views on the socio-political system dictated the need for a very active opposition to each other.

Based on this, we can analyze the current situation in our country. There are Westernizers, there are Slavophiles, there are those who manage to intercept air on one and the other side of the dividing line. Some see the conflict between Russia and the West as the inevitable extinction of Russia; others see this as the only correct option for our country to demonstrate its high status. Some are convinced that only European norms are capable of pulling Russia out of its current state by the ears, others are sure that it is better to sit in its place than to look for ghostly ways. A situation that fully recalls the historical stage of the 40-60-s of the nineteenth century with the only difference that today the West has much more opportunities to put pressure on Russia.

After Vladimir Putin was elected president, talk about the vector of Russia's development turned into a new big dispute. In the midst of this discord, one can hear the words that Putin can forever bury the partnership with the West and send Russia along a siding leading to deep stagnation. However, to say this today you can afford, if you completely neglect the historical facts. First you need to recognize that, yes - of course, Putin for the West was seen as far from an ideal figure with whom he would have dreamed of cooperating. But for all that, Putin received a public message from the Russians, which means that you (the candidate-president Putin) was awarded the support of the majority, which means you must do everything so that this majority does not experience fatal disappointment. With such a promise in the chair you will not zeditsya, but will have to work with tripled energy. Was there such a situation at the time when Brezhnev was at the helm of power, with whom they now like to compare Putin? Obviously not! Leonid Ilyich did not receive any public messages, and could not receive them, because, as you know, our society and the party were almost not a single whole, and therefore any nomination of claims turned into nomination of claims to ourselves ...

Putin is being blamed for the fact that he does not have the mood for rapprochement with the West, and with Western democratic values. But this judgment can hardly be called objective. And then what to call Russia's participation in European conventions, what to call the emerging mood to reform the political system, what to call possible cooperation with NATO, which, by the way, causes serious disputes even among the ardent supporters of Vladimir Putin. To say that Putin wants to implant the principles of the Congress of Vienna in Europe with a focus on the inviolability of borders and turn to stagnant stability is also quite adventurous. In this sense, in the most democratic Europe, as they say, the stigma of a cannon: where it is beneficial (Georgia, for example), the borders are considered immutable, and where it is not profitable (Serbia), the borders can be moved as long as necessary. Yes, and with the stagnation of the Western world today he clearly overdo it. What is worth one famous amendment of Jackson-Vanik, which the United States "hold" active for every fireman. By the way, there are certain forces in Russia today that urge the United States Congress not to abandon this amendment - for example, Boris Nemtsov ... And there are also many complaints about the Western economic model inflating mutual debts. Therefore, there is still a grandmother in two said, who is now stagnant.

At the same time, we will say so, modern Slavophiles also occupy a far from unequivocal position. It lies in the fact that it is necessary to exert unconditional trust in the Russian government, because it allegedly always knows what to do in a given situation. This position looks strange, because any modern (or self-modern) power is not a priori immutable formation, which should be cooked only in its own juice, not accepting public complaints, and not allowing even a hint of self-criticism. Power, at least from the Slavophile, at least from the Westernist point of view, is a group of people who must stand in defense of the interests of any of the citizens. In no case should power be perceived as a public taboo, otherwise we ourselves will be guaranteed to send our staff on the path that leads nowhere.

As a result, it must be said that the multipolarity of opinions is an excellent tool for the social and political development of the country. The confrontation of socio-political formations gives rise to confidence that the country will not grow into the ground. Any one-sided position leads to moral degradation, but at the same time frantic liberalism is the path to endless self-shattering. It turns out that in the near future we are awaited the search for that most cherished golden mean, which for centuries has eluded Russia. But so eager to believe that utopia at least once in our country become a reality ...
30 comments
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  1. +7
    19 March 2012 08: 23
    A good article ... I made me think ... I don’t know why, but the conclusion I made is somewhat paradoxical .. It’s a little connected with the author’s conclusions ... Russia, which we have because of this, differs because there are more Westerners in the European part, and it means Westernized ideas, and from the Urals there are more Slavophiles ... We stand with both legs on both ideas and this is precisely what contributes to the stability and power of our country ...
    We can understand both the western and eastern world and take what we need from there ... It seems that the idea is simple, nothing new, but it was the article that pushed it. Alexey .. Thank you!
    1. Paratov
      +2
      19 March 2012 18: 42
      If you want to be original, be yourself!
  2. +5
    19 March 2012 08: 53
    The article is interesting ... Indeed, it is the lot of Russia to constantly communicate with one or the other ... And even with everyone at once ... We just don’t really like it when we get into our lives with dirty hands ...
    1. Paratov
      +3
      19 March 2012 18: 43
      Neither a Frenchman nor a Chinese will come out of me! .. I was born Russian - Russian and I will die!
  3. Goga
    +4
    19 March 2012 09: 05
    The article is interesting by the time, only this problem has more ancient roots than those indicated by the author in the article - "The birth of a kind of barrier took place just then - in 1815." - the aforementioned "barrier" arose much earlier, at least from the division of Christianity into Catholics and ravoslavs. Some calls for crusades against the "schism" are worth what. The key, in this discrepancy, was the choice (at the most critical moment) of V. kn. Alexander J. "Nevsky". With Europe against Asia or vice versa. The past after this century have shown the correctness of the princely choice - and our church reasonably considers him a saint. Western Europe constantly made attempts to limit communication with Russia - Russia - Poland did not let goods through, German cities did not accept Russian merchant ships, etc. Attempts were repeatedly made to bring our church under Catholicism. Russian "Westernism" initially and to this day is based on belittling the role and dignity of its own people and, therefore, is reasonably perceived by the bulk of this people as a betrayal.
    1. +7
      19 March 2012 09: 57
      All this is true, but as the social theory of Slavophilism was formed only in the 19th century. Archimandrite Gabriel (Vasily Voskresensky) stood at the origins of Slavophilism. His "Russian Philosophy", published in 1840 in Kazan, became a kind of program of Slavophilism.
      The Slavophiles came out with a justification for the original path of historical development of Russia, fundamentally different from the path of Western European. The originality of Russia, according to the Slavophiles, is the absence of a class struggle in its history, in the Russian land community and artels, in Orthodoxy as the only true Christianity.
      On the question of the path of Russia's historical development, the Slavophiles opposed the assimilation of the forms of Western European political life by Russia. At the same time, they considered it necessary to develop trade and industry, stock and banking, the construction of railways and the use of machinery in agriculture. Slavophiles advocated the abolition of serfdom "from above" with the provision of land plots to peasant communities.
      That is, to put it simply, the Slavophiles are apologists for the national Russian industrial capital, which began to form in Russia in the 19th century. to the peak of the Western liberal theory of capitalism by Adam Smith.
      Westerners - the direction of Russian anti-feudal social thought of the 40s of the XIX century, opposing the Slavophiles. Common features of Western ideology include rejection of feudal serfdom in the economy, politics and culture; the requirement of socio-economic reforms according to the Western model. Representatives of the Westerners considered it possible to establish a bourgeois-democratic system peacefully - through education and propaganda to form public opinion and force the monarchy to bourgeois reforms; they highly appreciated the transformation of Peter I. The Westerners advocated overcoming Russia's social and economic backwardness not on the basis of the development of distinctive cultural elements (as the Slavophiles suggested), but on the basis of the experience of Europe that had advanced ahead. They focused not on the differences between Russia and the West, but on the general in their historical and cultural fate.

      [quote] In the mid 1840s. among the Westerners there was a fundamental split - after the dispute between Herzen and Granovsky, the Westerners split into the liberal (Annenkov, Granovsky, Cavelin, etc.) and the revolutionary-democratic wing (Herzen, Ogarev, Belinsky). The disagreements concerned attitudes toward religion (Granovsky and Korsch defended the dogma of the immortality of the soul, Democrats and Botkin spoke from the standpoint of atheism and materialism) and the question of methods of reforms and the post-reform development of Russia (democrats put forward the ideas of revolutionary struggle and building socialism). These differences were also transferred to the field of aesthetics and philosophy. [/ Quote

      Today, Russia stands at a peculiar historical crossroads. Having survived the acute crisis associated with the collapse of the USSR, Russia is gradually recovering its potential. And after the recovery period, a much more complicated stage follows - development is not due to the old, accumulated potential, but due to new resources, the opening of new opportunities. And it is not surprising that it was at such a moment that discussions about the future path of Russia intensified. Moreover, if the 1990s. can be called mainly the period of the dominance of the ideas of the “new Westerners”, now in society there are more likely to have some superiority in the ideas of the “new Slavophiles”.
      In the 1990s Russia has embarked on establishing and strengthening relations with the West at virtually any cost. Due to obvious weakness, some concessions were made by our country unilaterally. However, as the situation in Russia began to stabilize, and she remembered her national interests, it turned out that the West was not ready to see Russia as an equal partner. It became obvious that the policy of "double standards" practiced by the West with regard to Russia was aimed at dealing with an obedient ally who was assigned secondary roles in international affairs. In the economic sphere, the liberal pro-Western policy has actually collapsed. “Shock therapy”, copied from Western models, did not lead to an economic miracle in Russia. The 1998 crisis, perhaps, finally made it impossible for a purely liberal economic model to be embodied in Russia. The failure of Western economic recipes led to attempts to search for other ways of successful development. This situation is not unique to world history. For example, when the Arab countries began to gain independence in the middle of the XNUMXth century, they first turned to Western, capitalist models, then to socialism. However, none of these models was successful. Then in the Arab world there was an appeal to the traditional values ​​of Islam. Something similar is happening now in Russia: the rise of Russian culture, the increasing influence of Orthodoxy. In recent years, Russia has seen good economic growth. And this can serve as a good basis for allegations that Russia itself, without the help of the West, is able to achieve success in development. It was at this moment that the concept of an “energy superpower” appeared and claims to Russia's growing role in international relations and the independence of its policy
      1. Goga
        +5
        19 March 2012 10: 22
        The geographical location of Russia-Russia in Europe does not automatically make us the European people (as well as the common genetic roots), L.N. Gumilyov on the influence of the landscape on the formation of an ethnic group. Significant differences between us and Western Europeans and the mechanical copying of Western patterns of development in us lead to completely different results. Thus, the liquidation by Peter the Great of the practically independent spiritual authority of the patriarchs led, according to many historians, to the separation of the national elite from the people, the erosion of moral values ​​and, as a result, to the 1 revolution.
        I quote - "in Russia: the rise of Russian culture, the strengthening of the influence of Orthodoxy. In recent years, Russia has seen a good economic growth. And this can serve as a good basis for the assertions that Russia itself, without the help of the West, is capable of achieving success in development" - I completely agree - but how painfully our Western "partners" react to these phenomena! Once again, they "failed" ....
        1. Paratov
          +3
          19 March 2012 18: 38
          Torn, torn and will be torn! ..
  4. Prophet Alyosha
    +8
    19 March 2012 09: 07
    "Russia has given 200 years to follow the path of the West. The departure from its I, from Orthodoxy, from its roots and traditions turned into the collapse of a great power, the destruction of the national elite and tens of millions of people. Under external influence, Russia is divided into 3 peoples, the economy is destroyed, The country is under external control. A thinking patriot understands that only the opposition of Russia to all this with the dominance of Western values ​​and the world order can save the whole world Russia itself, Only in the confrontation with the West will we be able to organize ourselves as a planetary force, Currying favor with our enemies we will never find a national idea, in addition to the idea of ​​self-destruction, the revival of a great and independent Russia, the whole world is waiting,
  5. +10
    19 March 2012 09: 28
    And it seems to me that there is also a third way or vector, and it is called the "golden mean". It means :
    1. To conduct a dialogue with the West, but not to rush there recklessly; we are not needed there.
    2. In every way to raise the role of Russian history, and above all, in the minds and consciousness of its citizens.
    3. Develop your economy, which means the well-being of citizens (and this is primarily) and only then support "friendly" regimes and countries.
    4. And do not forget the truth that has become absolute: Russia has only two co-creators - its Army and Navy.
  6. Brother Sarych
    +1
    19 March 2012 10: 30
    It seems to me. that the attempts to draw the definitions of the 19th century to the developing 21st century seem rather strained - and the Westerners are not the same, and with the slackophiles it is a big strain!
    1. Goga
      +2
      19 March 2012 11: 03
      With the "Slavophiles" really strained. But the "Westerners" practically did not change, that Herzen called his "Bell" during the Crimean war from London - against his country, with British money, that the current "bell-ringers" with the State Department's money continue his work ...
      In general, these designations are rather arbitrary, it’s just more convenient to distinguish between two areas in the country's development.
  7. +4
    19 March 2012 11: 24
    Quote: domokl
    Russia, which we have because it differs because in the European part there are more Westerners, and therefore Westernist ideas, and from the Urals there are more Slavophiles ...

    It’s possible, Domocles.
    Quote: Prophet Alyosha
    By crouching in front of our enemies, we will never find a national idea, except for the idea of ​​self-destruction,

    Definitely true! Catch a plus!
    Quote: Gogh
    With the "Slavophiles" really strained. But the "Westerners" practically did not change, that Herzen called his "Bell" during the Crimean war from London - against his country, with British money, that the current "bell-ringers" with the State Department's money continue his work ...

    I think we need to soberly assess all the advantages and disadvantages. Of the advantages of Western society is certainly a competent work organization and good management at the "middle level" (an official at the level of a city police chief or a manager at the level of a department head in a private company)
    Among the shortcomings are the enslavement of their own people with endless payments (up to 90% of income as compulsory payments for housing, communal services, medicine, insurance, etc.), sheer hypocrisy about freedom that does not exist, the substitution of traditional values ​​for liberal ones (the family is controlled by the guardianship authorities, relations between a man and a woman become a contractual partnership), justification of abominations (gay pride parades, treating maniacs as "simply in need of treatment), ever-changing forms of Nazism, now called" democracy "from which neo-colonialism grew (Iraq, Libya and etc.).
    Western peoples need spiritual help, which they replaced with personal psychologists, which, however, does not help, otherwise they would not have crumbled each other in American schools and potential breakers would not have roamed the streets.
    1. Goga
      +2
      19 March 2012 11: 42
      Of course, colleague, the achievements of "Western" civilization in technology, science, organization of production - to deny and not use for their own purposes is meaningless. We are talking about a different perception of the world, about the concept of "justice" in particular. In Europe, in order to "restore justice" to the Albanians, they bombed an entire country, evicted the Serbs from their historical homeland, and most of the population of Europe is sure that this is really fair. We are different, so even if we adopt all the laws and orders "like in Europe" - the result will be completely different, not like theirs.
      And there is also such a concept of "foreign ravages" - this is when a person forgets whose son he is, when all his obviously seems worse than someone else's, no objective arguments are perceived - only a manic desire to destroy his own and do "everything like people" remains. This is already a mental illness - watch TV a significant number of people flickering there can be safely attributed to patients with this disease.
  8. +3
    19 March 2012 11: 36
    Or maybe We are in this very middle ground not consciously, not fully understanding the balance sheet structure of Russia. After all, we lived in the past (it’s breathtaking of pride for our ancestors), we live in the present (not for us to evaluate) trying to preserve our past and bring our own, and the future will be sure (sons are guaranteed). The history of Russia would be enough for several states and this is a fact.
  9. Railways
    +2
    19 March 2012 12: 06
    As the saying goes, "In a dispute, truth is born." It is better, of course, to go your own way of development. We don't need EUROPA, with their debts, crisis, etc.
  10. DeamonFIre
    -2
    19 March 2012 13: 11
    And for me, Europe does not live well because Russia is not with them ... And together it would be calmer and easier to resist both America and China ...
    1. Goga
      +4
      19 March 2012 13: 41
      Europe remembered Russia when a "kirdyk" sneaked up on it, and after that, "using" they tried to kick the bear into place in the den - until the next time.
  11. 0
    19 March 2012 13: 23
    The principles of the Slavophiles, autocracy, estates, unrepudiation of the church, led to the explosion of 1917. The triumph of the Westerners resulted in the loss of morality and ethics in permissiveness and hypocrisy, commercialism, and is leading to an explosion in the near future. The purpose of the explosion, both here and there, is to build a just society of "some version of communism," this option has failed in our country, we need something new, something different (Islamic radicalism should not be offered laughing ) as it is tied to the banal principles of the Ten Commandments chtoli. And not necessarily all must be united, many too different to be together.
    1. Goga
      +2
      19 March 2012 13: 50
      Colleague, the statement about the "indisputability" of the church is somewhat incorrect - even Peter 1 abolished the institution of the Patriarchate (independent spiritual authority) and the church was directly subordinate to the state. And only shortly before the revolution, the Patriarchate was restored, but too late.
      And in the Slavic "triad" it is not "class" but "nationality" that sounds.
      It is certainly unreasonable to unconditionally support all the calculations of the Slavophiles of the 19th century, but if you choose between two directions when defining a new path, then you must take "Westernism" as a basis.
      1. +3
        19 March 2012 13: 59
        Quote: Gogh
        then it should be taken as a basis not as "Westernism".

        I am against Westernism, but I can’t agree with the dogmas of autocracy, it is necessary to develop something new that would include both freedom for self-realization of a person, but at the same time in the right direction, without unbridledness and permissiveness with servitude under the guise of freedom, and the role of the person in society , with the impossibility of abstaining from society or becoming entrenched in society as an unshakable idol without proper confirmation of their superiority by deeds and not by the origin or belonging to a group of certain persons.
        1. Goga
          +1
          19 March 2012 14: 16
          I completely agree that what was acceptable in the 19th century will not save in the 21st.
          I believe that in this matter the issue of education comes to the fore. With a certain freedom of self-realization of a person, only the level of upbringing can keep this very person within the framework - "without licentiousness and permissiveness" - you can't put a policeman on everyone, again - "who will guard the watchmen." For centuries, the church has been doing this in our country. To call myself a believer would be a great exaggeration on my part, but respect for the 1000-year experience of our church is and there is a hope that this experience will still serve our country a good service.
  12. +2
    19 March 2012 14: 22
    Of course, some statements raise questions.
    For example: "Power, even from a Slavophil, even from a Westernizing point of view, is a group of people that should defend the interests of ANY citizen."
    It’s hard to agree with that. What, the government should defend the interests of the above-mentioned Nemtsov? Or Kasparov, who persuaded the Americans to bomb Russia?
    Not to see behind a separate (and, as a rule, conspicuous - rotten) FOREST tree, this is a disease of Westerners. She does not suit us.
    Power must stand on the defense of the whole people as a whole. And only the working people.
    Parasites must be plagued as typhoid lice, and there should be no talk of any of their rights to spread the infection.
  13. malera
    -4
    19 March 2012 18: 10
    Quote: domokl
    .Russia, which we have because it differs because in the European part there are more Westerners, and therefore Westernist ideas, and from the Urals there are more Slavophiles.

    I think the gradient selected is not correct. The closer to the capitals, the more a person feels himself a person and is able to express his dissatisfaction with power. And the less the authorities decide to suppress the protest. And vice versa, the farther from the capitals (for example, Astrakhan is not the Urals), the greater the lawlessness of the authorities (and why they are afraid of the chances that they will show a minimum on the BBC.
    After 1917, there are few Orthodox Christians in the country. They do not play a big role in the current community. There is no longer up to Slavophilism. Especially when science begins to say that Russians are more of Finno-Tatar origin than Slavic.

    Quote: Gogh
    The geographical location of Russia-Russia in Europe does not automatically make us the European people (as well as the common genetic roots), L.N. Gumilyov on the influence of the landscape on the formation of an ethnic group. Significant differences between us and Western Europeans and the mechanical copying of Western patterns of development in us lead to completely different results. Thus, the liquidation by Peter the Great of the practically independent spiritual authority of the patriarchs led, according to many historians, to the separation of the national elite from the people, the erosion of moral values ​​and, as a result, to the 1 revolution.

    Under Peter the Great, this was the national elite: were the boyars with the people?
    Or under Catherine II the Potemkins and Sheremetyevs were with the people? Weak point of view.

    About the current Westerners. Most of them appeared in the country (USSR) along with the penetration of Western goods. And the then authorities could not explain to the people why in the decaying West (I exaggerate) the Sony TV works several times better than the RUBIN created by the winners of the social competition.
    Well, now many have traveled abroad and see that it is easier to live there. Prices are lower and salaries are higher. (Well, maybe with the exception of fuel). And people make conclusions about the economic impotence of the current government in the Kremlin. That is the whole policy of Westernism. Find a normal president, raise the standard of living and the Westerners will disappear.

    1. Goga
      +3
      20 March 2012 06: 24
      Before Peter's reforms, the Russian nobility spoke Russian, even the "great" boyars in the spring went out into the field and did the first plowing (it is clear that it was a show - but it was). Yes, there was class, but there was no such division as after the reforms. in the 18th century, even speaking Russian was considered bad form among aristocrats.
      For a person who lives only to consume inexpensive goods, Russia will never be a "comfortable" country. "Consumerism" is what the West is trying (and not unsuccessfully) to instill in us. Even if the hamster needs are satisfied and the country is flooded with inexpensive consumer goods, new "needs" will appear and so on without a limit - to the point that our climate is "not the same" - in Thailand it is warmer ....
      Such people have always been (where the homeland is warmer there), the same Turgenev lived in Europe for a long time (in an interesting connection with the Viardot family), but this is not about them, but about us - living in our country, in whatever situation she was not.
  14. BMW
    BMW
    +3
    19 March 2012 18: 56
    Westerners and Slavophiles are all lies. Russia became a western country with the introduction of Christianity - it is Christianity that describes all Western values. Slovofilstvo - has one value - community. Only this distinguished Russia from the West (personal interests). The difference is one community - a person. The community was gradually destroyed by the West (Peter the Great, the October Revolution of 1917, the capitalist revolution of 1991). The further we go along the historical ladder, we become a more western country.
  15. +2
    19 March 2012 21: 46
    Guys, understand that Russia and Ukraine, by and large, have two development scenarios - Byzantine and Eurasian ...
    The history of Byzantium is known to all - this once powerful Orthodox state remained only in dusty history books ...

    Unfortunately, the Byzantine scenario is unfolding now, but at least there are people who understand the disastrousness of this development path ... In striving for European values, we gradually abandon our native and ancient Slavic customs ... The European vector is a way into the abyss for our countries - we are a special generation our children and grandchildren will quietly fade away. The reasons are low fertility, feuds, drug addiction, an idle lifestyle, ethnic strife, corruption, stratification of society, propaganda of false ideals of free love, etc. Much of the above just from the West came to us for a reason ... And gradually, Russia and Ukraine can repeat the fate of Byzantium and leave the historical arena ... All this is a long-standing dream of our enemies who have long dreamed of colonizing the vast expanses of eastern Slavic states.

    There is also the Eurasian path of development - we must not forget that our ancestors are older than many European peoples and our strength in that we are between Europe and Asia - the fact of the matter is that we Eastern Slavs are not Europeans and we never will be - we better - in we have both European rationality and the Asian depth of thought ... And our peoples have the richest bowels and vast territory and the smartest scientists and hardworking people and beautiful culture - that's just no agreement ... But if only somehow to make it clear he’s all children to the elderly and unite them in a common national impulse, but this is the task of those who rule us ... And they have not been able to find a national unifying idea for 20 years and everyone is sharing their billions ... Truly, the trouble of the Slavic peoples is the boyar feuds and greed...
  16. 0
    19 March 2012 23: 38
    Westerners, Slavophiles, stagnation, stagnation. Friends, doesn’t it seem to you that our people are simply tired of jerks, revolutions, and other vacillations 20-21 BB
  17. +6
    20 March 2012 01: 24
    The chatter about "Western democratic values" is already weary. On Sunday "Vremya" there was a report about women dismissed in England (!!!) because they did not want, as Christians, to take off their pectoral cross !!! This is in a Christian country !!! The fact that non-Russians - Muslims run around in burqas on the streets of small Britain - does not scratch anyone. And to arrange persecution against Christians ... What the hell is such democracy and tolerance ??? And all sorts of perverts - like participants in gay pride parades ??? If you are with deviations from nature (by the way, in the "democratic countries of the West" everyone swears on the Bible in courts and other sworn cases, and in it the enti lads are specifically called sodomites), then do your perversion in your clubs, etc., but on the streets get out ??? Do we need this on our streets? And then, opening their mouths, part of our population, like imbeciles, look to the west - and from there such a rush! What can the West give us in terms of civilization? No shit! Law abiding? they only have it when the executioner stands behind them. Remember what the "civilized" French were doing here 200 years ago (Vereshchagin's paintings, take a look), and no less "civilized" Germans only 71 years ago. That's their whole civilization. Our soldiers in 1945 in Germany fed the Germans, although after what their "Zoldats" committed in Russia, the entire population of Germany could easily be sent to Auschwitz, Majdanek, and Treblinka in trains to "finalize the German question" and to feed the vanquished - this is OUR CIVILIZATION!!!
    1. BMW
      BMW
      +3
      20 March 2012 02: 19
      Historically, the spiritual foundations of the SOCIAL community of the peoples of the USSR-Russia are:
      Living in a family in harmony for several generations, honoring the elders and nurturing the younger ones. To inherit the experience of ancestors with understanding, to strive for truth in order to be in harmony with the World and God. Take care with near and distant consent in truth. Unite with the righteous to protect against the perverse. Work - together, conscientiously from the bounty of the soul, and not do an alien thing for a fee or out of fear, contrary to conscience. To live, protecting the Fatherland, sacredly protecting it from enslavers, but to provide hospitality to guests. Give traitors contempt and blot out themselves and their deeds from life, but be merciful to those who make mistakes and repent.

      What we see is only one appearance.
      Far from the surface of the sea to the bottom.
      Consider inconsequential manifest in the world,
      For the secret essence of things is not visible.
      Omar Khayyam
  18. +1
    20 March 2012 11: 35
    Quote: nnz226
    On Sunday "Vremya" there was a report about women dismissed in England (!!!) because they did not want, as Christians, to take off their pectoral cross !!! This is in a Christian country !!!

    The West has somehow imperceptibly ceased to be Christian, it has long been satanic, which is why it is bad to wear a pectoral cross, but being a homosexual is good. Satanism was simply called "democracy".
    Therefore, we, Russians and Orthodox and Muslims and those who consider themselves "atheists" but profess traditional values, need to unite against the West and its abominations. And this rejection of "Western values" openly preach to the whole world, inviting all people of the earth to remember their traditions, culture and freedom. It is about freedom, not "democracy"
  19. +1
    20 March 2012 17: 55
    This flock is also discussed on the Eye of the planet.
    In my opinion a worthwhile comment from there from Opozdavshiy (Yesterday, 22: 11)
    On the issue of partnerships with the West.

    I will not analyze the "depth of centuries." Let's talk about what we ourselves have seen and remember. So, within the boundaries of the foreseeable past, a situation has formed and determined that is characterized by two fundamental points.

    Firstly, the inclusion of Russia in equal partnerships with the West is economically unacceptable to the West itself. The reasons for this are objective. For reasons of economic feasibility, Russia can be included in the sphere of "partner relations" with the West only on the basis of the rights of the colony, otherwise the level of consumption in the West ceases to grow and decline. By the way, the standard of living in the West stopped growing and began to decline with the departure of Yeltsin and the advent of Putin precisely because Russia refused the honor of becoming a colony of the EU and the USA. Hence the frenzied hatred of the West for Putin, which the author puts on in a very politically correct form: “Putin for the West was far from an ideal figure with whom he would have dreamed of collaborating.”

    Secondly, the paradigm of relations between Western civilization and the rest of the world, the paradigm of the "golden billion" when the minority exists safely at the expense of the majority, is not acceptable for Russia for ethical reasons. Whatever barbarians we try to expose Western intellectuals and champions of freedom, Russia has never parasitized on anyone. And to force Russia to accept the ideology of the "golden billion" is possible only by destroying Russian culture, Russian mentality ...

    Therefore, it turns out that in all cases of relations with the West - both in economic and political and military ones, we simply cannot agree on conditions acceptable to the West. I note that it is the West that is trying to ruin Russian statehood and destroy Russia, splitting it into small parts. Russia has not been noticed in such attempts. She doesn’t need this ...