In China, improved Hall-engine

86
Harbin Polytechnic University of China reports that a power plant has been created in its laboratories, which is called an improved Hall-engine. In fact, we are talking about an improved design of a cylindrical engine based on the Hall effect. The effect of the Hall in physics is the occurrence of the so-called Hall voltage (transverse potential difference) when a conductor moves with ordered moving particles (current) in a magnetic field.

On the development of representatives of the Chinese University reports and resourcetracking news science.

In China, improved Hall-engine


Hall-based engines can deliver spacecraft over farther distances than those considered to be the limit now. And the speed of delivery increases.

As an example, the possibility of a less expensive expedition to Mars on a spacecraft with an improved Hall-engine is given. The engine, as noted by Chinese engineers and scientists, uses xenon ions, which gain acceleration due to the electric field. The number of ionized atoms grows - plasma is created. She and ejected from the exhaust nozzles of the engine at a giant speed up to 100-115 thousand. Km / h.



Due to the formation of an avalanche of ions, such engines are often called ion engines.

It is noted that Chinese engineers have achieved the miniaturization of Hall-engines and significantly increased their cravings.

For obvious reasons, a significant increase in the power of ion engines imposes new requirements on the design of aircraft (space) vehicles.
86 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +10
    16 August 2017 08: 19
    Not surprised! they have more students and patents for inventions and discoveries of the Chinese will still show themselves in the world ..
    .da and the population they have the most elementary in the world, respectively, the percentage of talented should be more
    1. +4
      16 August 2017 08: 23
      An ordinary rocket, like about 46.000 km / h, is gaining, and here it’s more than 100. cool
      1. +12
        16 August 2017 08: 46
        Quote: vkl.47
        An ordinary rocket, like about 46.000 km / h, is gaining, and here it’s more than 100. cool

        these are different engines, the usual one overcomes gravity and the ionic engine is not, but it can work for a long time and the usual one is not
        1. +1
          16 August 2017 12: 39
          An example is the possibility of a less costly expedition to Mars on a spaceship with an improved Hall engine.

          And how many spacecraft with a Hall engine have already started?
          ZERO?
          It's time to upgrade!
          1. +8
            16 August 2017 13: 32
            Quote: vkl.47
            An ordinary rocket, like about 46.000 km / h, is gaining, and here it’s more than 100. cool

            Do not confuse soft with warm, and exhaust speed with rocket speed.
            The “ordinary” kerosene “rocket” has a plasma exhaust velocity of 8 km / s from the nozzle and 10 km / s of hydrogen (the Energia rocket). The higher the exhaust speed, the less fuel is needed, and this ensures the popularity of ion engines. But they have another inherent flaw - low power. That is, on such an engine you can fly further, but there is much more time to fly. Modern ion engines provide plasma speed more than 200 km / s
            In the Chinese, in this article, 100-115 thousand km / h - it is 30 km / s. That is, in terms of efficiency, it is significantly inferior to conventional ionics. The merit of their improvement in another is that they INCREASED DRAFT. That is, in practice, their engine is a cross between an ordinary ion exchanger and a kerosene rocket. And perhaps, using their best practices, in the future they will increase the thrust of ordinary ionics as well.
            What the Chinese have ALREADY done will probably find application at short distances, for example, to fly to the moon on a manned ship in a quick manner. But on Mars, and even the automatic station, it’s better on an ordinary ionic tank. Long, but much cheaper.
            hi
      2. +5
        16 August 2017 08: 47
        Well, if Western civilization is not interested in space expansion, why not do Eastern?
        1. +8
          16 August 2017 09: 04
          In Western civilization, devices on such engines have long been flying around the solar system.
          Dawn (born Dawn, pronounced Don) is an automatic interplanetary station (AMS) launched by NASA on September 27, 2007 to study the asteroid West and the dwarf planet Ceres.
          The AMS is equipped with three xenon ion engines developed on the basis of a sample tested on the Deep Space 1 probe.
          1. Ren
            +1
            17 August 2017 09: 15
            Quote: BlackMokona
            In Western civilization, devices on such engines have long been flying around the solar system.

            In the USSR, these engines have been used for spacecraft since 1972. (Grishin S. D., Leskov L. V. Electric rocket engines of spacecraft. - M.: Mechanical Engineering, 1989. - 216 p.);
            Mass production of engines - since 1982 (Gorshkov O.A., Muravlev V.A., Shagayda A.A. HOLLOW AND ION PLASMA ENGINES FOR SPACE VEHICLES / Koroteev A. S .. - M.: Mechanical Engineering, 2009. - P. 208)
            1. 0
              17 August 2017 09: 37
              The first functioning ion electrostatic engine (created in the USA at NASA by John H. Glenn Research Center at Lewis Field) was built under the direction of Harold Kaufmanruen in 1959. In 1964, the first successful demonstration of the ion engine in suborbital flight (SERT I) took place [1]. The engine worked successfully for the planned 31 minutes. In 1970, a test was conducted to demonstrate the effectiveness of the long-term operation of mercury ion electrostatic engines in space (SERT II) [10].
              1. Ren
                +1
                17 August 2017 10: 11

                In 1929–33 V.P. Glushko created an experimental electrothermal RD;
                In 1964, electromagnetic (USSR) and electrostatic (USA) RDs were tested for the first time in flight, in 1965 - electrothermal RDs (USA). ERDs were used to control the position and corrections of the SC orbits, to transfer the SC to other orbits.
                In 1964, in the orientation system of the Soviet spacecraft Zond-2, 70 erosive pulsed RDs operating on the fluoroplastic functioned for 6 minutes; the resulting plasma clots had a temperature of ~ 30 K and expired at a speed of up to 000 km / s.
                Flight tests of ionic taxiways were carried out in the USSR under the Yantar program in 1966–70 (RD with a gas discharge ionizer), in the USA in 1964 under the CERT-1 program (flying along a ballistic trajectory), in 1965 under the Snapshot program and in 1970 according to the program (RD with contact and gas-discharge ionizers).
                The first experimental electric explosive taxiway was created in the early 30s. in USSR. Further development of the principle of this taxiway led to the creation of erosive electromagnetic taxiways.
      3. +3
        16 August 2017 12: 04
        Photos used: AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF PHYSICS

        No comments
    2. +4
      16 August 2017 08: 44
      And I'm not surprised. They have ordinary rockets that fly poorly. Another dream of the Chinese. And you can write anything. It is a pity that if you write about the engine in the press, it will not work.
      1. +7
        16 August 2017 08: 55
        Quote: Muvka
        And I'm not surprised.

        I understand your sarcasm, I suspect that with our leaders soon only he will be! we just have to spit ...
        the Chinese will inexorably win in the long run, unless of course they stir up the Maidan,
      2. +8
        16 August 2017 08: 56
        Yeah! Europeans also thought when the Chinese invented gunpowder.
        1. +2
          16 August 2017 09: 09
          Gunpowder is not such a technological invention. It can be obtained non-specifically. But the engine is unlikely to just happen.
          1. 0
            16 August 2017 23: 38
            Such an engine is a hundred years old at lunch, the fact that the Chinese have finally come to this, that's what is remarkable!
        2. +5
          16 August 2017 09: 38
          Quote: Smog
          Yeah! Europeans also thought when the Chinese invented gunpowder.

          The invention of gunpowder alone didn’t mean anything! For a long time (I don’t know for sure), so 300 powder guns did not give advantages over bows with arrows (crossbows) especially in close combat! a saber, a bow, a peak were preferable, but when industry appeared and the opportunity to create reliable barrels, high-quality gunpowder, cartridges, and a revolver, then an advantage appeared, and this happened recently by historical standards wink for reference: with a bow per second you can do two shots!
          1. +10
            16 August 2017 11: 16
            Quote: himRa
            The invention of gunpowder alone meant nothing

            So is the invention of a steam locomotive? They also lost horses at first. I’m silent about airplanes.
            And anyway, why don’t you value China so much? Who heard about them about 30 years ago7 And suddenly, like the devil from a snuff-box, you are here. Say, the country is a photocopier. Partly, yes. But at least they have enough intelligence to copy all this at home. And we all sleep on the Soviet legacy. Ah, yes, we also sell oil and gas, though recently it’s not very successful. Something like that.
            1. +3
              16 August 2017 12: 12
              Only a copier they built Western corporations, and so the Chinese fellows well done;)
            2. +4
              16 August 2017 12: 41
              Quote: Smog
              And anyway, why don’t you value China so much?

              I can be accused of overestimating China but not underestimating laughing
              30 years ago .... let’s remember the case is not the Tiananmen Square where they shot the protesters?
              about China has always been heard hi
              1. +6
                16 August 2017 13: 13
                Well, we also shot tanks from the Parliament. Audibility was better not necessary. The democratic media even broadcast a direct television report about this "fun" But we never got off the needle with oil.
    3. +7
      16 August 2017 09: 51
      Is not a fact!
      That blacks, too, to hell in the world, but a lot of sense from them?
      It’s just that education needs to be dealt with, and not imitated, as the true Ministry of Education does!
      There, unfortunately, the Menagers also settled in.
      This is the second internal evil, after the "fifth column" of liberals.
      From this muck you need to get rid of the most cardinal methods!
      1. +5
        16 August 2017 10: 04
        Quote: Skif83
        Is not a fact!
        That blacks, too, to hell in the world, but a lot of sense from them?

        1-Chinese at times more than blacks is a fact ....
        2 blacks never had an empire and the Chinese had ... a fact ...
        3-I hope you are not a fascist ..... and do not think that certain nationalities are not available ...
        4- there are 10-11 times more than us, logically, the percentage of talented will be more ...
        if you answer, then quote, but it’s not clear to whom you answer to the author, commentator, or your own thoughts! laughing
        1. AUL
          +3
          16 August 2017 10: 41
          Not a percentage, but an absolute value ...
        2. 0
          16 August 2017 23: 50
          And how many famous African physicists, chemists, mathematicians and chess players came out of the “African Americans”?
    4. +1
      17 August 2017 07: 45
      Surely they have not stolen or copied anything !!!
      Quote: himRa
      .da and the population they have the most elementary in the world, respectively, the percentage of talented should be more

      Well, yes, sooner or later the quantity goes into quality.
  2. +2
    16 August 2017 08: 19
    Curious. Whose developments are you using this time?
    1. +8
      16 August 2017 08: 22
      Quote: Black Colonel
      Curious. Whose developments are you using this time?

      Um. And whose developments the Chinese used to create gunpowder, rockets, paper, and so on. The Chinese are a great people with tremendous potential. Over the years through 20, they will firmly take the position that the United States today occupies in both the economy and politics.
      1. +7
        16 August 2017 08: 31
        Yeah. The Chinese invented gunpowder, but for some reason they didn’t think of a gun. Paradox? laughing
        And they wrote about ion engines in the middle of the last century in our "Young Technique". hi
        1. +6
          16 August 2017 08: 44
          It is a pity that the "Young Technique" did not put together a working prototype.
          Da Vinci also invented a helicopter, only it could not be constructed for four hundred years.
          An idea does not cost anything, but its embodiment ...
        2. +7
          16 August 2017 09: 46
          They thought of a rocket. Similar to Katyusha. Reinforced bamboo
          hoops over the entire length.
          1. +3
            16 August 2017 13: 46
            Quote: voyaka uh
            They thought of a rocket. Similar to Katyusha. Reinforced bamboo
            hoops over the entire length.

            they had normal rockets (for that time) and the first missile race with Korea ... The Japanese also raked off the first Chinese and Korean missiles ...
      2. +4
        16 August 2017 08: 36
        Gunpowder, rockets and paper - the development of the Indians.

        The Chinese are great plagiarists.
        1. +6
          16 August 2017 08: 59
          Quote: Ilya-spb
          Gunpowder, rockets and paper - the development of the Indians.

          And they invented elephants.
      3. +2
        16 August 2017 08: 55
        Did the Chinese tell you that they invented gunpowder, paper and rockets? The Chinese are lovers of juggling history, which by the way they are still doing ...
      4. 0
        16 August 2017 12: 15
        Most likely someone stole both gunpowder and paper and gave it as their own.

        And so the French make and sell ion engines for satellites.
    2. 0
      16 August 2017 09: 00
      hall development
    3. 0
      16 August 2017 10: 04
      Naturally american
  3. 0
    16 August 2017 08: 23
    The Chinese are making history!
  4. +5
    16 August 2017 08: 23
    Storm in a glass of water. Spun in a well-known engine gas flow. Level of development - a bachelor’s diploma from MIREA. Reception is quite trivial and often used.
    The best in the world, and the most powerful plasma engines are doing on the "Torch" in Kaliningrad, the development of MIREA. PSDs are called.
    I would appreciate this - as a "ratsuh" of the times of the USSR. laughing
    1. +8
      16 August 2017 08: 30
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The best and most powerful plasma engines in the world are made at the Torch in Kaliningrad

      Only our devices do not fly to Jupiter and the asteroid belt. recourse
      1. +9
        16 August 2017 08: 41
        Quote: Corporal
        Only our devices do not fly to Jupiter and the asteroid belt.

        it’s more likely because such flights are pure science, and we don’t have much money for it. besides, our people don’t know how to get into a 10-20 episode series from a satellite’s flight and then turn it around the world collecting huge grandmas. to all BBC, national geographic is very far from ours, as in the blockbuster section, to the “defenders” to the “avengers”.
        1. +6
          16 August 2017 08: 46
          Quote: K0
          this is pure science, and we have little money allocated for it. besides, our people don’t know how to get into a series of 10-20 episodes from a satellite’s flight

          In general, your truth. And it does not please.
    2. +2
      16 August 2017 10: 05
      Did they make the engine to the “Torch” to a rocket that did not fly to Mars?
  5. +1
    16 August 2017 08: 34
    I won’t be surprised if there is news, the Chinese “discovered the Buddha”!
    1. 0
      16 August 2017 10: 10
      If we consider China's achievement in the billions of cheap labor, then there were no competitors to it. All advanced assembly from the United States migrated to them. As soon as the Chinese added to wage growth, GDP growth began to deflate, production went up, sales declined. The Russian elite needs to depreciate the ruble, as well as the cost of labor below the Chinese. Then we will follow the footsteps of China. There is no other way to come up with our economic system. This is the law of the market.
      1. +2
        16 August 2017 10: 23
        Quote: siberalt
        The Russian elite needs to depreciate the ruble, as well as the cost of labor below the Chinese. Then we will follow the footsteps of China.

        heh, heh come round! ALREADY done exactly as you offer!
        not a big BUT .... we are 10-11 times less than the Chinese, but this parameter has been changing for centuries!
  6. +5
    16 August 2017 08: 44
    Chinese engineers have miniaturized Hall engines and significantly increased their thrust.

    They were not very big anyway. And thrust has increased by how much? Twice? It seems like more than 300 mN thrust has not yet been achieved. This is the time. The plasma flow rate was already no more than 50 km / s, this is 180 thousand km / h. What kind of gigantic speed in 110-115 thousand km / h are we talking about? These are two.
    It seems that the Chinese took the finished engine, slightly shifted / turned parts on it, painted it and gave it out as a new, improved one.
    Geniuses.
    For obvious reasons, a significant increase in the power of ion engines poses new requirements for the design of aircraft (space) vehicles

    Will they add another bolt to the mounts?
    1. +1
      16 August 2017 08: 55
      You're right. Everything is just that.
  7. 0
    16 August 2017 08: 48
    The mass of the working fluid is small. The device will accelerate for days. And slow down too.
    1. +6
      16 August 2017 08: 52
      There is not a small mass, but the draft is small. These engines are mainly used to orient satellites. To fly to other planets, the ship will be dispersed not even for days - for weeks and months. But a) acceleration will be constant, engines can work for years b) achieved speed will be much greater than that of modern chemical engines.
      1. +2
        16 August 2017 10: 59
        Quote: Wedmak
        To fly to other planets, the ship will be dispersed not even for days - for weeks and months. But a) acceleration will be constant, engines can work for years b) achieved speed will be much greater than that of modern chemical engines.

        ... And we come to the development of a megawatt-class nuclear propulsion system (YEDU), which is being developed by Rosatom and Roskosmos.
  8. 0
    16 August 2017 08: 49
    Quote: andy.v.lee
    I won’t be surprised if there is news, the Chinese “discovered the Buddha”!

    ... but British scientists have proved that ...
  9. +4
    16 August 2017 08: 54
    No one will fly anywhere. No new engines will apply! No space travel! Everyone will travel the earth in the old fashioned way, then the war for resources, water, oil, chaos, devastation, degradation ... and then they will invent a digging stick again.
    1. +2
      16 August 2017 09: 03
      Well, not so bad. With a creak and a rattle, the process of transition from gasoline engines to electric and hybrid began. Even in Russia, they thought about building infrastructure for cars. And large automakers are experimenting more and more with hybrid engines.
      It will be a long, tedious, not without scandals, but the process has begun.
    2. +3
      16 August 2017 09: 49
      Quote: DEZINTO
      No one will fly anywhere. No new engines will apply! No space travel! Everyone will be the old fashioned way.

      Here .... here I already like it .....
      comrade knows for sure, not well ... I'm also a clairvoyant, so shta hello colleague! drinks
      Zhirinovsky is you? very similar in style but his words are surprisingly come true
  10. 0
    16 August 2017 09: 16
    Will the materials withstand the temperature? Yes, and side fields do not hurt? 8000
  11. 0
    16 August 2017 09: 24
    I didn’t understand anything, but it’s interesting
  12. 0
    16 August 2017 09: 33
    There was a real trifle - to build this module and confirm the declared characteristics on parametric tests. But the Chinese have problems with this.
  13. +3
    16 August 2017 10: 09
    Of course you can arbitrarily scoff at the Chinese comrades, but something tells me that even though we consider ourselves smarter and, as it were, our technique is better, they will be the first to get to Mars. In the space race, the result is important, not the academic conclusions.
  14. 0
    16 August 2017 10: 13
    Quote: himRa
    the Chinese will inexorably win in the long run, unless of course they stir up the Maidan,

    Is there any reason for your strange statement? Expand your sensation. What reasoning led you to this profound maxim?
    1. +3
      16 August 2017 10: 35
      Quote: Mentat
      Is there any reason for your strange statement? Expand your sensation. What reasoning led you to this profound maxim?

      Read my posts in any way? the argument that they are 10-11 times numerically greater, as I understand it, is not an argument for you? and the numbers are changing for centuries!
      or is it not an argument for you that in any community of people there is a certain percentage of strange people, and they, under certain material conditions, are the engines of progress?
      what other arguments are needed for your maxims wink
  15. 0
    16 August 2017 10: 17
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    After 20 years, they will firmly take the position that the United States today occupies both in the economy and in politics.

    You have strange ideas about economics and politics.
  16. +1
    16 August 2017 10: 57
    I still don’t understand why the Chinese improved the engine?
    in my opinion, just made a new replica based on current technology.
    the fact that they find resources to deal with this problem is really cool,
    but I don’t see any improvements and this is not cool.
  17. +2
    16 August 2017 11: 03
    Quote: himRa
    Quote: Mentat
    Is there any reason for your strange statement? Expand your sensation. What reasoning led you to this profound maxim?

    the argument that they are 10-11 times numerically greater, as I understand it, is not an argument for you?

    No, of course. The development of science is affected not only by the number of talented people (who can grow rice), but also by the scientific school, mentality, educational level of the population as a whole, and social factors.
    Take an interest in the level of urbanization in China. In order to increase this indicator, the Chinese authorities carried out a reform in 1975, according to which settlements with a population of over 3000 were considered a city. This is a frank manipulation of numbers. The vast majority of Chinese in fact live in rural areas and will never be related to science under current realities.

    or is it not an argument for you that in any community of people there is a certain percentage of strange people, and they, under certain material conditions, are the engines of progress?
    what other arguments are needed for your maxims wink

    What else? You have far-reaching thoughts :) For this “percent of the population” there must be a fundamental possibility of self-realization. Take an interest in China’s internal migration policy. Those registered in rural areas, in fact, do not have full access to the system of higher education and medical services in cities.
    Yours is not even theorizing, but the assumption is being broken today about Chinese realities.
    1. +2
      16 August 2017 13: 43
      objection is not accepted.
      Quote: Mentat
      Take an interest in the level of urbanization in China. In order to increase this indicator, the Chinese authorities carried out a reform in 1975, according to which settlements with a population of over 3000 were considered a city. This is a frank manipulation of numbers.

      Perhaps but this is outdated information .... currently available uninhabited cities, they are built, but the Chinese are waiting for people to buy apartments there ... well, they don’t have this when people are driven out of villages to cities by hunger ...
      continuing the argument I will say that cement is produced in China and there are more steel than in the USA and Russia together
      1,8 billion tons - 60% of world production !!!!! cement
      I’m not talking about computers and other electronics
      I can list a dozen more names where China leads unambiguously, for example, railways. and highways, bridges and other complex objects
      they have a permanent station in orbit, we don’t have it its was ,, world ,, but ....
      I drive a Chinese car, comp, smart, clothes, I have Chinese food and almost everyone has it ...
      Chinese army forces to reckon with it ...
      Well, what else did you have there?
      The development of science is affected not only by the number of talented people (who can grow rice), but also by the scientific school, mentality, educational level of the population as a whole, and social factors.

      you speak like a snob or a Muscovite laughing
      how many years did it take, "bast", of Russia (USSR) to at least catch up with European countries in level?
      they also buy specialists all over the world!
      Have they already passed and in the future will go a shorter path than even the USSR, to recall their growth rate?
      so once again I repeat they will make both the USA and us very quickly if we do not artificially interrupt the development of this locust .... hi
      ps I recommend re-reading my posts ...
  18. +2
    16 August 2017 11: 07
    What does a healthy society mean. And they discovered fuel on the ocean floor and mastered their own civilian planes and trains for 500 km an hour across the country and much more. But in 1980 the feudal country of the cart bulls and even our equipment began in the 50s. Not at all due to the sale of natural resources. What does an intelligent person come to power. I'm talking about Dan, and by the way, the Communist Party is still at the head. And what have we achieved in 27 years?
    As I read a long time ago, one foreign research fund analyzed its forecasts for the development of the countries of the world. The forecast did not match. They began to understand the reasons and came to the conclusion whether the people are educated or not, the availability of natural resources is not important, the most important thing is who is in power. If you fool the country to vegetate if the thieves are the same. If smart country will flourish. China is a very vivid example of this. By the way, the Chinese were hardworking 1000 years ago, although there was no sense in that. They were busy in shit. Dan came to read and studied Ipoperly. Of course, developed countries also helped them. ONLY PRODUCTION MAKES THE COUNTRY A MIGHTY AND UNBEATABLE. AND HER CITIZENS ARE RICH. I saw China 80 village village last century. But in the beginning we also twitched according to the Chinese scenario, but the formidable call of Yeltsin quickly cut off the visit to China of Chernomyrdin. Well, something like this. I used to look at the Chinese as backward. And it's not about the number of people. The Chinese can afford abandoned newly rebuilt cities. But they built it and did not want to live. With all the infrastructure, traffic lights and away works even street cleaners. In the words of Vysotsky, "Where did Zin come from?" So all their successes are thanks to those who are at the head and only to them. But these successes are alarming. Speech went on the revival of a great nation. What Germany came to with such wishes, we remember. Although then we were preparing to fight in someone else's territory or just throw caps with our hats, the reality was terrible. Millions of the lives of our people were devoured by a well-trained German war machine. And we stupidly backed up to Moscow itself. But before the mood war, yes, we will tear the German as a Tuzik heating pad. That is the current bish. So own considerations. To develop science, favorable conditions are needed. In China, they exist and are embodied in the real affairs of technological progress. And this is far from the limit.
    1. 0
      16 August 2017 12: 40
      Do you seriously consider China's industrial growth to be due to genius Den Xiao Ping?
      1. +4
        16 August 2017 16: 17
        Quote: Anthropos
        Do you seriously consider China's industrial growth to be due to genius Den Xiao Ping?

        Let me answer .. for Bert a
        Dan’s main merit was that he introduced the concept of a change of leadership every 10 years in the CCP and separation of the party (CCP) from economic levers in the state, leaving the party with a legislative function, by the way, Stalin wanted to separate the Soviets and comas (regional committees, city committees) and this it was Khrushchev who introduced the concept of the leading role of the CPSU, and the Soviets, including the Supreme Council, became just a decoration ...
        No wonder the Chinese were very offended by Khrushchev and his personality cult, where he simply defeated Stalin ...
        So the merit of Dan is the creation of conditions for civilized growth after all sorts of cultural revolutions and the like when the owner built a blast furnace in the courtyard of a private house for steelmaking ...
        1. 0
          18 August 2017 14: 12
          At the same time as China, the world opened the Russian Federation, the former Soviet republics and the entire eastern Europe. Why did all investment and technology flow to China? Despite the fact that he remained an ideological opponent of Western pseudo-democracy. And we jumped and kicked for liberalism in the early 90's?
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. 0
            18 August 2017 15: 18
            after "90's" is just the point. Unfortunately.((((((
  19. +1
    16 August 2017 11: 08
    Quote: himRa
    the argument that they are 10-11 times numerically greater, as I understand it, is not an argument for you?

    This they say about their numbers. There was a good article on the Web (I will not mention the source) about the fact that there are not so many of them at all. There were logical arguments. For example, if you throw out places unsuitable for living from China’s area, then the population density in the remaining area will increase significantly ....
    1. +2
      16 August 2017 13: 49
      Quote: Kerensky
      This they say about their numbers. There was a good article on the Web (I will not mention the source) about the fact that there are not so many of them at all. There were logical arguments. For example, if you throw out places unsuitable for living from China’s area, then the population density in the remaining area will increase significantly ....

      Can you be more specific? Do you want to say that in reality there are 2 less Chinese? wassat
      1. +2
        17 August 2017 09: 52
        The Chinese were counted by the British for a long time. And when the Chinese began to consider themselves, they suddenly became very many. So people got interested. They threw out uninhabited areas, estimated consumption of food ... Well, the ends do not meet! Why is it profitable for the Chinese to overestimate their own numbers - the second question. Maybe they strangely receive benefits to the area ...
        For some reason, I remember the figure of 32 hungry Chinese per square kilometer. But an article on the Web can be found .... I could be wrong.
        1. +2
          17 August 2017 13: 13
          during the Japanese occupation, the Chinese lost 50 million! during the Korean War, another 2 million, the largest in the world are the Chinese diasporas, I came across information that at the beginning of the 18th century there were more of them than in all of Europe and the British provoked the consumption of opium in China, it was a nightmare when they every second was opium a drug addict, so they are extremely hard on punishing drug addicts, often in the recent past 1960-80, they had hunger and had to artificially limit their birth rates ....
          probably no nation could stand such disasters ...
          According to estimates for 2016, the population of China amounted to 1 inhabitants.
          In India, about the same ..
          in theory, any state is interested in knowing exactly the number of its citizens, since many plans are coordinated with this figure, for example, food purchases ... housing construction, etc.
  20. +1
    16 August 2017 11: 18
    If the Chinese consider such an engine to be the top of their achievements, then this is sad on the one hand. One can definitely say that the intellectual potential in developing such an engine is very limited. On the other hand, that is obvious. that all developers are on a definite and clearly defined path of development, which means that sooner or later they will come to what will be called a real breakthrough and success. For us, this is a very primitive and not brought to a logical level mechanism. In other words, it’s just another kindergarten. Firstly, there is no clearly defined theory of the interaction of magnetic force flows generating potentials over all vectors of radial space. There is no mathematical justification for the distribution of magnetic fluxes depending on the complex of geometric parameters and its distributed potentials. The main thing is that there is no theoretical justification for the behavior of magnetic fluxes in the interaction of the exhaustion energy and the expiration medium. In general, still at a very low level of analysis and justification theories.
  21. 0
    16 August 2017 13: 28
    Let them start, and so it's all an empty bazaar ...
  22. 0
    16 August 2017 14: 31
    Quote: himRa
    continuing the argument I will say that cement is produced in China and there are more steel than in the USA and Russia together
    1,8 billion tons - 60% of world production !!!!! cement

    Does the amount of cement produced indicate the level of technological development and the possibility of realizing people in science? This is just a killer “continuation of the argument”: D
    I’m not talking about computers and other electronics

    Do it right. In China there are no "computers and other electronics", there are imported equipment, which China was allowed to establish on its territory for cheap production in violation of all conceivable and inconceivable environmental standards. What was the benefit of Western corporations. From this, China received money in their pockets, but they still have to spend it on the real development of the country.
    The real development of the country is the level of education and cultural development of the population, the availability of education and medical services, social security, infrastructure (this is already being developed by China), the availability of quality food, and the normal environment (this is a disaster in China).
    China has a lot of work and a long way to go to a developed state, if you look at things without embellishment.
    And your enthusiasm for China looks just childish.
    1. +4
      16 August 2017 16: 39
      . There are no "computers in China

      so we buy chips in China ... even for space rockets, server stations, and communications?
      And your enthusiasm for China looks just childish.

      sick fantasy ... there are key parameters and cement and steel are the first of them that speak for heavy industry
      I speak facts, figures, your arguments are similar to the arguments of the young ladies ... he is so pink and beautiful ...
      that’s what you climb with your culture if you can’t conduct dialogue and debate without rudeness?
      goodbye!
  23. 0
    17 August 2017 07: 50
    If you really thought of it yourself, then respect. It’s just like the Chinese treats nobody like "Quietly issued and left, called found" laughing
  24. 0
    17 August 2017 07: 55
    Until you protect the crew from penetrating radiation, at least set a photon engine, at least a subspace engine, and no expedition will take place.
    1. +2
      17 August 2017 12: 38
      Quote: Fkjydjckfrgh
      Until you protect the crew from penetrating radiation, at least set a photon engine, at least a subspace engine, and no expedition will take place.

      therefore, I suspect that they will not fly anywhere else on Earth ... in the next 3-5 years, for sure
  25. 0
    17 August 2017 15: 44
    Quote: himRa
    . There are no "computers in China

    so we buy chips in China ... even for space rockets, server stations, and communications?

    We buy where they are produced, incl. in the domestic market. Produce - keyword. Complex chips are not developed in China. There is not a single sophisticated chip in the world developed in China. Your horizons are amazing.

    And your enthusiasm for China looks just childish.

    sick fantasy ... there are key parameters and cement and steel are the first of them that speak for heavy industry

    This is just a fact. You still ass live begin to wipe the Chinese mannequin. I will not describe what other actions you are doing there, it is your business by and large. But these naive delights look against the backdrop of China’s enormous real domestic problems.
    Developed heavy industry produces means of production, for your information. Cement and steel are raw materials and do not say anything about developed heavy industry.

    I speak facts, figures, your arguments are similar to the arguments of the young ladies ... he is so pink and beautiful ...

    What are the facts? What is the specific “chip” that we purchase in China and which designed by the Chinese. It doesn’t reach you that we buy American and English chips in China because the United States and the World Bank produce them there (to drastically reduce costs and maximize profits). This does not mean "computers and chips in China." You confuse the cause with the effect and yell yourself without knowing what. “Pink and Beautiful” is your combination of beautiful, perfect China.
    And I never said that this is a bad country, or that they have not achieved anything. They chose their own path, which Russia (and thank God) will never choose. This is their solution and their problems, which they themselves can solve.

    that’s what you climb with your culture if you can’t conduct dialogue and debate without rudeness?
    goodbye!

    When a person has no arguments, and he begins to build himself offended Madame and insulted innocence out of the blue, it looks, again, like panties on the straps in kindergarten.

    Well, about culture in elementary everyday manifestations. Shrinking, sorry moa, on the sidewalk of a child and a deliciously crying uncle in Versace, leaving a boutique, in China so far is the "norm".

    1. The chips that we purchase in China, and which are designed by the Chinese.
    2. Environmental parameters in China (for your own development and broadening your horizons).

    Please, be kind. In order not to look like a complete uh an uncultured person.
    1. +2
      17 August 2017 20: 22
      1 - request information on the MTK chip
      China introduced its latest supercomputer - a monolithic system with 10,65 million computing cores, entirely built on local microprocessors. Last year, recall, the United States government made a decision to ban China's access to the fastest Intel chips.
      None of the systems built in the US even comes close to the new Chinese supercomputer called Sunway TaihuLight. Its theoretical peak performance, according to the latest release of the Top500 rating, is 123,5 PFLOPS. This is the first system with a capacity of more than 100 PFLOPS, and 1 PFLOPS is such a performance in which the supercomputer steadily performs quadrillion floating point operations per second.
      Self-developed microprocessors are perhaps the most important feature of Sunway TaihuLight. China used to rely heavily on American chips to create supercomputers. The former leader, the second fastest system, the Tianhe-2 with a peak speed of 54,9 PFLOPS, is based on Intel Xeon processors.
      The TaihuLight, installed at the Wuxi National Supercomputing Center of China, uses ShenWei CPUs developed at the Jiannan Computer Research Laboratory. The supercomputer is running the Chinese Linux dialect - Sunway Raise.

      read, it seems stuck in the past ...
      source:
      https://www.osp.ru/news/articles/2016/25/13049863
      /
      I hope you haven’t banned Google?
      request: https://www.google.com/search?q=China+chips+sob
      natural + development & oq = chinese + chips + proprietary
      nnoy + development & aqs = chrome..69i57.23668j0j4 & a
      mp; a
      mp; sourceid = chrome-mobile & ie = UTF-8 # xxri = 1
      The 2-ecological situation is not simple, if we recall our recent past when our plants worked in 3 shifts about the same ...
      can not be called a catastrophe!
      China is actively working on this issue
      At the APEC summit in 2014, China announced its plans to reduce air pollution and transfer energy consumption to renewable sources.

      In particular, an important part of China’s environmental program is to increase the production of non-polluting electric vehicles. In March 2015, the Chinese Ministry of Transport announced a plan according to which the number of electric vehicles in the country should be 300 thousand, electric-powered buses - 200 thousand, taxi - 100 thousand. Charging stations are already being built in cities

      can be read here:
      http://www.perspektivy.info/history/kitaj_moshhny
      j_start_ekologicheskoj_revolucii_2015-03-23.htm
      about:
      Shrinking, sorry moa, on the sidewalk of a baby and a deliciously crying uncle in Versace, leaving a boutique, in China so far is the "norm".

      snobbery and rushing ... look out of your ,, seashell ,,! Russians don’t shine with culture, spit in the building, (beat the face more than once) smoke and drink in public places, more - right on the playgrounds ... throw garbage out of the window, into
      more than once had to read in the news about the epidemic of long-forgotten diseases ...
      there are also anti-terrorist examples when they equip and ennoble the territory on a voluntary basis ...
      Ie the conclusions will be different ..
      But in crowded China and in a hot climate, they manage to prevent epidemics because they live for centuries and are used to abiding by the rules of a hostel or death.
      it is necessary to speak about China in excellent tones and for me personally he is an example of statehood and reasonable care of his citizens!
      and more: from the point of view of the Asiatic, some actions of the so-called ,, Europeans ,, are beyond understanding!
      you judge with your ,, bell tower ,,
      ps when cultural people say goodbye then they usually leave.
      bye.
  26. 0
    18 August 2017 00: 38
    Quote: himRa
    China introduced its latest supercomputer - a monolithic system with 10,65 million computing cores, entirely built on local microprocessors. Last year, recall, the United States government made a decision to ban China's access to the fastest Intel chips.
    Self-developed microprocessors are perhaps the most important feature of Sunway TaihuLight. China used to rely heavily on American chips to create supercomputers.
    read, it seems stuck in the past ...

    Listen, dear reader of the forum. You seem to think that these adverts reflect reality.
    In reality, this processor is an unlicensed copy of the DEC Alpha cores of the 90s, planted on one substrate.
    If the cap shows hieroglyphs, this does not mean that underneath it is really a Chinese-made processor.
    Approximately from the same opera "Samsung processors" in smartphones. There are none. There is a packaging of licensed British company ARM cores in a single package, called the Samsung Processor.
    In the case of the aforementioned "Chinese processor", licensing was somehow not remembered.

    The 2-ecological situation is not simple, if we recall our recent past when our plants worked in 3 shifts about the same ...

    We have never had and never will have the same situation. Fundamentally.
    For some reason you are trying to cover up the truth.

    can not be called a catastrophe!

    70% of groundwater in China is polluted, the concentration of harmful substances in the air exceeds the norm by hundreds of times. Infinite poisonous smog in the cities. Industry had to be stopped at the 2008 Beijing Olympics in order to create the appearance of a normal environmental environment so that visitors could breathe air rather than stench. The situation is catastrophic.

    Shrinking, sorry moa, on the sidewalk of a baby and a deliciously crying uncle in Versace, leaving a boutique, in China so far is the "norm".

    snobbery and rushing ... look out of your ,, seashell ,,! Russians do not shine with culture

    It seems you can hardly imagine the definition of the word "snobbery".
    Russians shine with culture. Individual cases (spit, throw garbage) are perceived as deviations from culture, and not as traditions or routine, or the norm. Who are you trying to trick?

    it is necessary to speak about China in excellent tones

    Who needs? Giraffe in pink glasses? No one else.

    For me personally, he is an example of statehood and reasonable care of his citizens!

    Especially the lack of retirement benefits, obviously. For you, he is an example only solely due to the limitations of your horizons.
    and more: from the point of view of the Asiatic, some actions of the so-called ,, Europeans ,, are beyond understanding!

    Give examples.

    ps when cultural people say goodbye then they usually leave.
    bye.

    Well go away, nobody holds you. This is a public forum where opinions are expressed for public discussion. Or is your horizons lacking again to understand the difference between a forum and personal mail?
  27. 0
    18 August 2017 14: 38
    Quote: Anthropos
    At the same time as China, the world opened the Russian Federation, the former Soviet republics and the entire eastern Europe. Why did all investment and technology flow to China?

    Apparently because Russia and Europe, even Eastern, do not work for a cup of rice per day for 12-14 hours and do not want to destroy their nature and water resources.
    Did you think China chose for a beautiful eye cut or what? They paid a very serious price for their economic recovery. This is their decision. Which, by the way, I do not blame - it is their right how to live if they exercise this right on their territory and among themselves, but I note its consequences.