On the Israeli "Namer" put a tower

Israeli armored personnel carrier "Namer", created on the basis of tank "Merkava", found a tower. The IDF command of the ground forces announced the start of tests of an armored personnel carrier armed with a 30-mm gun, according to a portal israeldefense.co.il "Warspot"

Armored personnel carrier, which has a tower with an artillery gun, receives an advantage in urban combat environment. A short 30-mm gun makes the combat vehicle more maneuverable and at the same time capable of providing fire support for infantrymen, which makes the landing of these vehicles more independent on the battlefield

- Brigadier General Baruch Matsliah, head of the Merkava tank development program at the Israeli Defense Ministry, said.

Armored "Namer" was created in 2005 year on the basis of the tank "Merkava" Mk4M and adopted by the IDF in 2008 year. The machine can carry up to twelve people, including three crew members. In addition to the active protection system of the Trophy, “Namer” has powerful armor, including enhanced bottom bookings and fencing anti-cumulative screens, making it one of the most protected armored personnel carriers in the world.

Initially, the main armament of the armored troop-carrier was the remote-controlled Katlanit module, which can be equipped with machine guns of various calibers or an 40-mm automatic grenade launcher. When developing "intend" originally envisaged the possibility of the installation of more powerful weapons. An uninhabited tower with a remote control allows the crew to monitor the situation on the battlefield with video cameras on the combat module, and a fast-firing 30-mm gun can hit even the enemy, hidden behind concrete walls. At the same time, the new combat module does not occupy the space inside the troop compartment, which made it possible to increase the firepower without reducing the number of troops being carried.

Comments

[Observer2014]

On the Israeli "Nemer" put a tower

Well, here is a colleague to our T-15 "Barberry"

Who better to argue now with the Israeli comrades

[Monos]

Surprisingly, all the same, the economic potential of Israel. And the military will be happy with such a novelty. I wonder how much it weighs?

[Aaron Zawi]

Normal potential. It weighs about 60t. Well, the infantry has long asked for a gun on an armored personnel carrier.

[Proxima]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

It weighs about 60t. .

Quote: Observer2014

Well, here is a colleague to our T-15 "Barberry"

“Colleague” “Barberry” “Namer” will never be. Firstly, the Israeli armored personnel carrier is 10 tons heavier than ours, the power of our BMP engine is 300 horsepower larger, and the Babraris rocket has a clear gain, in Namer there is a 40-mm MK19 automatic grenade launcher and a 60-mm mortar, and on our antitank typewriter "Cornets". It seems like these advantages individually are not so critical, but in the aggregate, the ISRAELI MACHINE WILL EXPLICITLY LOSE OUR BMP.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Proxima

ISRAELI MACHINE WILL EXPRESSLY PLAY OUR BMP.

In what
"Namer" is an armored personnel carrier. And his main task is to bring infantry, and not destroy tanks of second-generation anti-tank missile systems. Which is not the fact that it is in this form that it is much better than the Israeli Spikes, which generally do not crawl out from behind shelters ...
But the fact that they have specialized "explosion-proof" seats for the infantry, and we have the usual ones, is already worth paying attention to.

[Proxima]

Quote: Spade

"Namer" is an armored personnel carrier. And his main task is to bring infantry, and not destroy tanks of second-generation anti-tank missile systems.

But the T-15 will take the infantry (it’s like the "Namer" 9 paratroopers) and crush the enemy’s tanks with the famous Cornets. Our car does not interfere with one another. All thanks to the advantages that I wrote about above.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Proxima

and the famous "Cornets" crush the enemy tanks.

And will it do better than Spikes?
Question 1: what do you think should be the speed of TBMP T-15 during the flight of the Cornet? I’ll hint, one bump, and the rocket will “come down”
Question 2: when can they be applied? You can use Cornets only at the very beginning of the attack. Then, after passing a pair of NZO / PZO, nothing will remain of them, they will simply be cut with fragments. But bad luck, the tanks will creep up, substituting the tower, only when the enemy’s armored vehicles reach the line of fire. That is, by the time the Barberries have lost their unused Cornets.
Question 3. What is the probability of a direct hit in the tank tower on the go and what is the probability of breaking it? After all, the "famous" Cornets ", unlike the non-famous" Tou ", do not know how to hit a target from above on the span

[avt]

Quote: Spade

You can use Cornets only at the very beginning of the attack. Then, after passing a pair of NZO / PZO, nothing will remain of them, they will simply be cut with fragments. But bad luck, the tanks will creep up, substituting the tower, only when the enemy’s armored vehicles reach the line of fire. That is, by the time the Barberries have lost their unused Cornets.

Apologists of the Terminator "somehow forget about their beloved one ... 57mm, which, with a fiery broom, crumbles the enemy, sweeping everything from the surface of the armor even opens it in turn" Well, in the end, we smoothly return to the ... assault tank with ,, Bahcea "based on 120mm.

[Sergey Medvedev]

Quote: Spade

And will it do better than Spikes?

But do the Spikes stand on Namer?

[Inok10]

Quote: Spade

And will it do better than Spikes?

... but who is Spike and why is it better than Cornet? ... 5500 m from the old man "Cornet" and 8000 from "Cornet-D" ... "Spike" just smokes around the corner ... and he said more than once ... I shot and forgot these "features", good for computer playful, but not for a real battlefield, smoke, dust and all that is in abundance ...

Quote: Spade

Question 1: what do you think should be the speed of TBMP T-15 during the flight of the Cornet? I’ll hint, one bump, and the rocket will “come down”

... will not do ... ... gyro-stabilized fire control systems since the days of the USSR ... there was no target tracking machine, but this is another question ... nowadays other times ...

Quote: Spade

But bad luck, the tanks will creep up, substituting the tower, only when the enemy’s armored vehicles reach the line of fire. That is, by the time the Barberries have lost their unused Cornets.

... what the hell is this? ... 5500 m. At the old man "Cornet" and 8000 m. At "Cornet-D" ... Are you joking? ... and how do you get them at such a range from the tank? ...

Quote: Spade

Question 3. What is the probability of a direct hit in the tank tower on the go and what is the probability of breaking it? After all, the "famous" Cornets ", unlike the non-famous" Tou ", do not know how to hit a target from above on the span

... 1200 mm homogeneous beyond DZ ... high probability ... more than 0,7 ... and this is at a distance of 5500 m. ... when the tank can only smoke with solarium from outrage and catch the Cornet in the forehead ...

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Inok10

1200 mm homogeneous per DZ

Where do you see this homogeneous? composite armor has been everywhere for a long time! And with it, penetration is MUCH less, there were already materials on VO that even with the previous generation of composites, penetration drops several times.

[Velizariy]

Quote: Inok10

5500 m from the old man "Cornet" and 8000 from the "Cornet-D" ... "Spike" just smokes around the corner ...

Yes ... With its 25 km.)))

[Proxima]

Quote: Spade

"Namer" is an armored personnel carrier. And his main task is to bring infantry,

The fact that you (by default) figured out that the T-15 carries as many paratroopers as the "Intent" is already good.

Quote: Spade

Quote: Proxima

and the famous "Cornets" crush the enemy tanks.

And will it do better than Spikes?

Spike ER anti-tank guided missiles are a long-range crane in the sky. The Israelis are just “planning” to do this.

Quote: Spade

What do you think should be the speed of TBMP T-15 all the time the flight of the “Cornet”? I’ll hint, one bump, and the rocket will “come down”

You are now tactfully leaving in particular, about which you yourself have a weak idea. The discussion is about something else - “Namer”, according to the set of characteristics, T-15 LESSES! To put it briefly, we can say that the T-15 infantry fighting vehicle has a tank reservation level, dynamic protection (Malachite), active protection (Afghanistan). This allows the BMP to fight in the same ranks with the Armat T-14 tanks. The presence of modern missile weapons from the Kornet anti-aircraft missile system and anti-aircraft gun allows you to effectively fire at both ground and air targets. Moreover, the Kornet ATGM works perfectly by air with its 9M133FM-3 missile. In a word, many such advantages of our BMP "Namer" can only dream of.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Proxima

But the T-15 will take the infantry (it’s like the "Namer" 9 paratroopers) and crush the enemy’s tanks with the famous Cornets. Our car does not interfere with one another. All thanks to the advantages that I wrote about above.

I don’t know how in this DUM, but on the prototype “Spikes” stood.

[padded jacket]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

I don’t know how in this DUM

Is he definitely a DUM? Or is there still a "small and thin" Jew sitting in the tower?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: quilted jacket

Is he definitely a DUM? Or is there still a "small and thin" Jew sitting in the tower?

Well, in open sources they write that DUM. And what in real life, we will know when the series will go.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

I don’t know how in this DUM, but on the prototype “Spikes” stood.

Aron, this is not the prototype. The new DUM for Namer, apparently based on UT30 from Elbit, but he is also with Spikes.

But in this case, the place for ATGM, apparently, was sacrificed to the installation of KAZ. (In appearance, at least, although the top panels .... )

[Alex_Rarog]

And why are we the usual ones? Still from the tiger went hanging ones which are not attached to the floor ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: Alex_Rarog

Still from the tiger went hanging ones which are not attached to the floor ...

??

[padded jacket]

Quote: Spade

But the fact that they have specialized "explosion-proof" seats for the infantry, and we have the usual ones, is already worth paying attention to.

At T-15, for example, "anti-explosive" are

[Lopatov]

Quote: quilted jacket

At T-15, for example, "anti-explosive" are

No.
Legs

[padded jacket]

Quote: Spade

No.
Legs

What are the legs?
For example, "without legs"

Explosion-proof seats from Creation installed in Zephyr. Double bottom eliminates the need for footrestsbut since they are attached to the sides, the seats have passive head restraints
Overview of seats, mitigating the impact of the blast wave
http://army-news.ru/2014/10/obzor-sidenij-smyagch
ayushhix-vozdejstvie-vzryvnoj-volny /

[Operator]

The airborne compartment, protected from explosions of mines and IEDs, must have a floor located with a gap relative to the bottom of the BMP body, and individual paratrooper seats mounted on the walls of the body with the possibility of vertical movement during an explosion, as well as a height reserve to the roof of the airborne compartment.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Operator

as well as the reserve height to the roof of the troop compartment.

hmmm, PMSM should be exactly the opposite, because when the car is blown up, it goes up, so you need to compensate for this by moving the seat down. So why do you need a margin for moving up?

[Operator]

Thank you for noticing my mistake.

[padded jacket]

Quote: Operator

The airborne compartment, protected from explosions of mines and IEDs, must have a floor located with a gap relative to the bottom of the BMP body, and individual airborne seats

So there is not only a “flooring” there, a capsule that is isolated from the TBTR body itself, that is, is the second obstacle to the blast wave, so there is no need for steps in the T-15 and paratroopers can put their feet directly on the floor of the capsule.

[Operator]

T.N. the armored capsule (additional reservation combined with the sides and the frontal part of the hull) is used only in the control unit of the T-14 tank.

There are no armored capsules in the T-15 airborne squad, the flooring is laid with a gap of 15 centimeters - in case of a mine explosion, the deformation of the bottom of the armored corps does not reach the legs of the paratroopers.

The flooring and shock-absorbing seats are not an obstacle to an air shock wave in case of breaking through the bottom of the armored hull with a powerful IED - in this case, the death of the paratroopers from the explosive shell shock is guaranteed.

The best protection against mines and IEDs are not anti-mine devices in the BMP body, but engineering reconnaissance of a lane using a geolocation installed on a quadcopter UAV

[Lopatov]

Exactly. No steps - there should be a special panel on the bottom. Non-sickly thickness.

[padded jacket]

Quote: Spade

No steps - there should be a special panel on the bottom. Non-sickly thickness.

And why did you decide that there is NO such panel in the T-15?

[padded jacket]

Quote: Spade

No steps - there should be a special panel on the bottom. Non-sickly thickness.

In general, in order not to argue in vain, look here is this video Lopatov there the constructor of this machine says - The crew and the landing are in a separate armored capsule that separates people from the fuel oil and ammunition.
Watch from 27:42 talk about the "capsule" in which the crew and the landing.

[ProkletyiPirat]

The thing is different when undermining a car, it goes up as a result of which the crew receives a blow from below, this blow goes to two points in the ass and in the legs, the first is compensated by the movement of the seat down relative to the car, the second either again by the movement of the footboard down relative to the car or up relative to the seat when it lowering relative to the car (in this embodiment, the seat has a much longer stroke but less comfort for the crew (which is not essential with a strong explosion))

[And Us Rat]

Quote: quilted jacket

What are the legs?

Legs should be on footrests that are attached to the seat. A dynamic blow from the explosion under the bottom can break the tibia of the legs standing on the unprotected floor. The spaced gender - has restrictions on the compensation of the blow, that is, the blow to the legs will still be, albeit weaker, and in addition - it eats up extra space.

[padded jacket]

Quote: And Us Rat

Legs should be on footrests that are attached to the seat. A dynamic blow from the explosion under the bottom can break the tibia of the legs standing on the floor.

Oh, enough to carry different nonsense even though you can
I gave an example above that the footrests are not required:

Explosion-proof seats from Creation installed in Zephyr. Double bottom eliminates the need for footrests
http://army-news.ru/2014/10/obzor-sidenij-smyagch
ayushhix-vozdejstvie-vzryvnoj-volny /

And in the T-15 there is a capsule in which the crew is located, that is, it (the capsule) itself is the second obstacle in the explosion of a mine (land mine) under the bottom.

[ProkletyiPirat]

they have already told you that the point is not to break through the lower armor, but to mix the machine itself upwards, because of which the crew is hit in the legs. This blow does not occur due to deformation of the lower armor plate, but because of the acceleration of the vehicle upward under the influence of an explosion. And your double sex does not compensate for this effect!

[And Us Rat]

Quote: quilted jacket

Double bottom eliminates the need for footrests

If you read the comments before replying, you would see my words about the spaced field. Your desire to speak is pitifully ahead of quick wits.

[Uryukc]

Quote: Spade

"Namer" is an armored personnel carrier. And his main task is to bring infantry

And even with this task, the T-15 should better cope because it is equipped with remote sensing and active protection systems, including where they thought about the secrecy of the machine.
cornet

Quote: Spade

and not destroy tanks of second-generation anti-tank vehicles

Yes, the 2nd generation, which according to some characteristics is better than 3, of some representatives of this generation is a multiple. But the missiles are cheaper, it’s best to equip each BMP, making it dangerous for ANY enemy equipment, including equipped with active protection (on the version of Kornet for armored vehicles, there is a mode of firing two missiles in one beam to break through AZ).

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Uryukc

And even with this task the T-15 should better cope because it is equipped with a DZ ...

On "Namer" another principle of booking, this does not mean that it is worse.

Quote: Uryukc

... and active protection systems

The blue “thing” on the sides of the DUM is the launcher installation of KAZ Trophy.

Quote: Uryukc

there, including thought about the secrecy of the machine.

Which makes sense in local battles with the "broads", but will help little against a high-tech enemy.

Quote: Uryukc

But missiles are cheaper, the very thing is to equip each BMP, making it dangerous for ANY enemy equipment ...

What would come to their intended use - it is necessary to break through the air cover, tactical formation of forces, and offensive initiative. Is this a partisan machine?

[Uryukc]

Quote: And Us Rat

What would come to their intended use - it is necessary to break through the air cover, tactical formation of forces, and offensive initiative. Is this a partisan machine?

If you are an adversary of NATO and half of humanity, then to "miss" the air cover, tactical construction and offensive initiative is not so difficult.
Nobody has canceled defensive actions yet.

Quote: And Us Rat

Which makes sense in local battles with the "broads", but will help little against a high-tech enemy.

It will help, especially if you monitor the purity of your sky.

Quote: And Us Rat

On "Namer" another principle of booking, this does not mean that it is worse.

Namer - no worse, he is older. It is commonplace when a new technique is created taking into account the experience gained in the world, including in Israel. As a result, it is ahead of older models, this is technological progress.

[Monster_Fat]

Well, because the Jews have not so many people, they protect everyone, but the "you" as usual; if only on paper the thick-bellied generals liked “power”, but to “cheaper” for the “bujet”, well, but the people of “women still give birth” ....

[Inhabitant of Mordor]

When the Jews have 100500 pieces, our Rogozins will continue to upgrade the 5 pieces shown in the parade.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Resident of Mordor

When the Jews have 100500 pieces, our Rogozins will continue to upgrade the 5 pieces shown in the parade.

We will not have much more 600 "Names". 420 pieces in 4 "heavy" brigades, 120 in 4 engineering battalions and 60 in the KShM and BREM format. Well, maybe a little more. But we will not reach 800. In the "light" brigade will go "Eitan."

[kashtak]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

In the "light" brigade will go "Eitan."

on "Eitan" if I am not mistaken is the same tower planned?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: kashtak

Quote: Aron Zaavi

In the "light" brigade will go "Eitan."

on "Eitan" if I am not mistaken is the same tower planned?

So far we have only seen the project.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: kashtak

on "Eitan" if I am not mistaken is the same tower planned?

No, there is a DUM with an 12.7 machine gun.

The presence of more serious weapons creates an unnecessary temptation to use the BMP \ BTR as the "light tank", which is fraught with high losses for any tactical error.
If the "Namer" (or T-15) by virtue of its reservation still forgives such errors, then lighter armored vehicles are practically nonexistent.

Together with heavy weapons KAZ will have to be delivered to Eitan, which will significantly increase the price and, accordingly, reduce the party, thereby ruining the idea of ​​a lung, cheap and mass Armored personnel carrier.

[Raf01]

You forget that the T-15 - while the prototype, which will be adopted may be (or may not be) by 2025, and the intention has been rolling for a long time.

[Muvka]

But without a tower. With the tower - also a prototype.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Muvka

With the tower - also a prototype.

Prototypes and concepts were before:

And this is a pre-production sample. Judging by the flag in the video, it’s already being tested in the troops. This is the flag of the IDF support service.

Py.Sy. - Someone just can not resist a joke about Ukrainians, 100%.

[corporal]

Quote: And Us Rat

Py.Sy. - Someone just can not resist a joke about Ukrainians, 100%. laughing

Ukrainians under the degree

[Velizariy]

Quote: And Us Rat

Someone just can't help joking

Quote: And Us Rat

It is a security service flag IDF

It is symbolic.

[kashtak]

the lack of anti-tank missiles is short-lived and corrected. You won’t be surprised with a 30 mm gun. but the 60-mm automatic mortar should be separately evaluated.

[tomket]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Well, the infantry has long asked for a gun on an armored personnel carrier.

Why not? Too expensive?

[And Us Rat]

Quote: tomket

Why not? Too expensive?

No, I answered above (about Eitan).

[papas-57]

'' The Israeli armored personnel carrier Namer, created on the basis of the Merkava tank, found a tower. '' And soon they will put a tank tower and get New Merkava.

[DEPARTMENT]

Why this article, annoy us ..? Again they will shoot unarmed Arabs in the Golan ... In this they are experts!

[hrych]

Quote: DEPARTMENT

Again unarmed Arabs will be shot in the Golan

I don’t know how Arabs are there, but fighters of Persian descent of one Lebanese faction beat up armored vehicles very successfully and apparently this experience is driving the modernization of this device. Although the range of modern ATGMs makes the cannon useless, all sorts of advanced RPG users can be reset to zero.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: hrych

I don’t know how Arabs are there, but fighters of Persian descent of one Lebanese faction beat up armored vehicles very successfully and apparently this experience is driving the modernization of this device. Although the range of modern ATGMs makes the cannon useless, all sorts of advanced RPG users can be reset to zero.

"Intent" did not beat. They went to units only in 2008 year. And against the RPGs and anti-tank systems put KAZ.

[hrych]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

"Intent" did not beat

The base is Merkava.

[hrych]

12 of August will be the anniversary of the crossing of the Sulaki there from 24 Merkav 11 destroyed by the "Cornets" and so on. A kind of Prokhorovka for Hezbollah. A transport helicopter was also shot down that day.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: hrych

12 of August will be the anniversary of the crossing of the Sulaki there from 24 Merkav 11 destroyed by the "Cornets" and so on. A kind of Prokhorovka for Hezbollah. A transport helicopter was also shot down that day.

I would really like some, but it's not like that.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: hrych

Merkav 11 destroyed by the "Cornets" ...

Not "destroyed" but hit the armor. Hezbollah militants fired at Israeli tanks around 1000 missiles, causing damage 52 tanks "Merkava". Of the fifty hit by Merkav rockets, penetrating injuries received 22 machines, that is, 44%. During the fighting in Lebanon, of all the damaged tanks, 5 vehicles were irretrievably lost, two of which (modifications Mk2 and Mk4) were blown up by landmines, and three more (two Mk2 and one Mk3) were completely burned up as a result of missiles. It is interesting to note that in the Mk4, which was blown up on a land mine, equipped with an anti-mine base, only one crew member was killed, and three more tankers and three wounded on board were not injured.
Of the 52 damaged and lost vehicles, the latest modifications of the Merkava, MK4, include 18 tanks. Of these machines, 8 remained operational, despite rockets hit, most of the rest returned to service after repair even before the end of the operation. 6 tanks of the Mk4 modification received through armor defeats. These statistics indicate that the Merkava, especially the latest modification of the MK-4, showed themselves during the fighting from the very best side. Indeed, if we consider the number of ATGM tanks fired by Israeli tanks reliable, it turns out that the effectiveness of these weapons in terms of destroyed tanks turned out to be equal to 0,3%..
Somehow frail for "Prokhorovka"

Quote: hrych

A transport helicopter was also shot down that day.

The results of a preliminary investigation showed that the helicopter was not hit by a Hezbollah rocket or shell.
A helicopter crashed in the Yishuv area of ​​Karem Ben-Zimra north of Safed. Half an hour after the helicopter crash, Hezbollah fighters launched several Katyusha launches in the area. Military experts believe that after receiving information about the crash site, the militants decided to prove that the helicopter was shot down by them.
According to an eyewitness, a local resident, the helicopter lost control, "turned in the air and fell to the ground." An eyewitness claims that there was no explosion or fire in the air in a helicopter.
In the area of ​​the helicopter crash, a section of the high-voltage transmission line was damaged. It is possible that the helicopter hit a wire blade, as a result of which the pilot lost control and the helicopter fell to the ground.

[hrych]

The RIAN news agency, referring to the An-Nur radio station owned by Hezbollah, wrote that a certain "American report distributed in diplomatic missions in Lebanon claims that Israel’s officially reported data on losses in Lebanon are very underestimated and Israel actually lost 164 tanks" Merkava “” (50% believe)
In total during the conflict (according to the Israeli military), 45 tanks hit by ATGMs and RPG grenades, hit the tanks 51 rocket. In 24 cases (47% from the number of hits) the cumulative jet pierced the armor of tanks. In total, about 60 BTT units received combat damage, including 48-52 tanks. Killed 31 fighter armored forces, including 30 tankers. In addition, 4 more soldiers died from ATGM hits in the BTT - 3 in D9 bulldozers and 1 in the heavy Puma armored personnel carrier. According to M. Khlyustov, “the number of launches from anti-tank systems of all types hardly much more than 100».
Therefore, we believe Hezbollah and Israel through time. However, the loss of even thirty tankers indicates significant damage to the tanks.
Now your official grades
On April 30, 2007, the interim results of the work of the Eliyahu Vinograd commission were published in Israel. According to the head of the commission, “Ehud Olmert is personally responsible for the mistakes of the Lebanese war” ... which ultimately led to a large number of civilian casualties in Israel and the need for “a large-scale ground operation, the price of which turned out to be too high»

[tamnun]

Quote: hrych

RIAN Agency, citing to Hezbollah-owned An-Nur radio station"Wrote that a certain “common report in diplomatic missions in Lebanon claims that Israel’s officially reported casualties in Lebanon are very underestimated and Israel actually lost 164 Merkava tanks ”(50% believe)

and why only 50% believe? which is not 63.5%

[hrych]

Law of war: underestimate your losses and overestimate the losses of the enemy. We don’t take Russians, such a mentality, we didn’t get rid of naivety, therefore, about our losses reliably, about strangers carefully ... Everyone else always impudent. The most reliable sources of third countries. Oddly enough, but very objectively, the CIA illuminates the situation.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: hrych

Recalling Hezbollah-owned An-Nur Radio

This one phrase puts an end to the impartiality of information.

Quote: hrych

According to M. Khlyustov, "the number of launches from ATGMs of all types is hardly much higher than 100."

On what data is such an assessment made? From the office beyond 3000km from the event area.

Quote: hrych

However, the loss of even thirty tankers indicates significant damage to the tanks.

The crew of the Merkava tank - 4 people, 22 shots, 31 killed from 88 crew members. And only 3 fires at 22 penetration. The survivability and security of the crew speak for themselves.

Quote: hrych

30 April 2007 year in Israel were announced the interim results of the commission Eliyahu Vinograd. According to the head of the commission, “Ehud Olmert is personally responsible for the mistakes of the Lebanese war” ... which ultimately led to a large number of civilian casualties in Israel and the need for “a large-scale ground operation, the price of which was too high”

And all because the military operation was subject to too much political influence. The army carried out a great purge after this, the operation in Gaza at 2008 clearly showed the result of work on the bugs.

[kashtak]

Hezbollah militants fired about 1000 rockets into Israeli tanks,

Sorry, but such a large and such a round round number in local conflict raises strong doubts. even if you count along with the RPG. in 1000 ATGMs even with such a group is hard to believe. as in 52 damage per thousand launches. can we reduce sturgeon to more realistic sizes?

[spirit]

So this is Military Review. Kiselev for you on another resource

[irazum]

Division, and you disarmed the Arabs in the Golan? I think everything; and why they are there without a trace unarmed, not for the first ten years ...

[kashtak]

Quote: DEPARTMENT

Again unarmed Arabs will be shot in the Golan

unarmed? Well, well, and why? if they don’t climb themselves.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: DEPARTMENT

Why this article, annoy us ..?

That's the way Vital especially youother goals on military forum impossible a priori.

Quote: DEPARTMENT

Again unarmed Arabs will be shot in the Golan

Again? And when was the "last time"?
But really! How can they live!

[KGB_TSRU]

I wonder what's inside, is there an air conditioner?
It seems to me that our armor is thicker, judging by the photo. You have a brilliant and clean, but we have some in the dust.

We are going and the driver is not visible. and you stick it out on the floor of the body.

[Observer2014]

KGB_TSRU

We are going and the driver is not visible. and you stick it out on the floor of the body.

Ha ha ha "Killed" Rabinovich, I recognize you by the logic of the statement of thoughts. What again lost the password?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Observer2014

KGB_TSRU

We are going and the driver is not visible. and you stick it out on the floor of the body.

Ha ha ha "Killed" Rabinovich, I recognize you by the logic of the statement of thoughts. What again lost the password?

That is yes. "I KIND know by gait ..."

[hrych]

Quote: KGB_CRU

and you stick it out on the floor of the body.

If the driver is cephalopod type of octopus

And here we have these four anti-Nemer things on the sides

[And Us Rat]

Quote: hrych

And here we have these four anti-Nemer things on the sides.

Alas and ah, but it’s too late to drink Borjomi, they will no longer help.
The effectiveness of KAZ "Trophy" versus "Cornet" according to the results combat applications so far held at around 100%.

[soroKING]

"on the floor of the crowd"

[tomket]

Quote: KGB_CRU

It seems to me that our armor is thicker, judging by the photo. You have a brilliant and clean, but we have some in the dust.

Ours resembles a Hammerhead Shark, thanks to its characteristic nose, and yours resembles a rhino.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Observer2014

Well, here is a colleague to our T-15 "Barberry"

I don’t think ... Babaris already has anti-tank missiles that allow the T-15 to fight tanks and the second ... there is a steady rumor that the T-15 will have a Baikal module with 30 mm instead of a turret with a 57 mm cannon cannon. Moreover, the entire line of Armata is designed with an armored capsule for the crew.

[max702]

Oh, how .. A gun was needed .. Yeah .. And not long ago, the local God's elects were worn out that the armored personnel carrier was enough for a self-defense machine gun .. and like our armored personnel carriers-BMPs, with their firepower, perverted command, to use them as a means of fire support for infantry .. And here there it is .. Well, so soon it will reach Bahchi ..

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: max702

Oh, how .. A gun was needed .. Yeah .. And not long ago, the local God's elects were worn out that the armored personnel carrier was enough for a self-defense machine gun .. and like our armored personnel carriers-BMPs, with their firepower, perverted command, to use them as a means of fire support for infantry .. And here there it is .. Well, so soon it will reach Bahchi ..

The God-bearers usually wear out. It’s hard for them to carry such a load.
As for the claims, no one spoke of "perversion." They explained that in the IDF, because of the very large number of tank units for each infantry company, there is a tank. But in connection with the reduction of the tank fleet in the AOI, the states and the reinforcement of the SV are being revised.

[irazum]

That's right, Aron!

[Arameev]

Quote: Observer2014

Who better to argue now with the Israeli comrades

Nothing, it would not be bad ... at the tank biathlon))

[Observer2014]

Arameev

Nothing, it would not be bad ... at the tank biathlon))

Duc and who is holding you? A hundred times it was said, come. Participate who is against ??? !!! .

[Arameev]

Quote: Observer2014

Duc and who is holding you? .

The question, as I understand it, is rhetorical ...

[Basarev]

Isn't it too high out?

[Arameev]

Quote: Basarev

Isn't it too high out?

well ... considering that the tower is uninhabited ... probably not too much. in the case is the airborne squad ..

[padded jacket]

Quote: Basarev

Isn't it too high out?

It’s even without DUM high, however, our new TBMP BTR tanks also began to suffer from gigantomania.
Israeli TBTR "Namer"

[Sergey Medvedev]

Quote: Observer2014

Duc and who is holding you? A hundred times it was said, come. Participate who is against ??? !!! .

So they are afraid to lose.

[irazum]

By the way, yes! Invite Jews to mercenaries, staffers to abrams, French at leklerki, Deutsch at Leo, etc. This I understand: there will really be a BIATHLON. And then: Angola-Mozambique-the great tank powers ...

[padded jacket]

Quote: irazum

Invite Jews to mercenaries, staffers to abrams, French at leklerki, Deutsch at Leo, etc.

They were invited but they were "scared"
The same Israel "agreed" to participate in only one competition - "Field Kitchen".

[hrych]

Quote: irazum

By the way, yes! Invite Jews to mercenaries, staffers to abrams, French at leklerki, Deutsch at Leo, etc. This I understand: there will really be a BIATHLON. And then: Angola-Mozambique-the great tank powers ...

You will be surprised, but the heavy 60-plus ton Merkav, Abrams and Leopards have no chance against the 40-46 ton tank T-72,80,90, where the Indians took off their armor - cunning kshatriyas And neither Merkava, nor Abram, nor Leo have an automatic loader, there is a loading Jewish-African-American Pole sitting there and hammering a gun tight those. the rate of fire is always not very good, but if the muddler still drops the shell, then the seams ...
Therefore, they wanted to, and away from sin, neither Merkava, nor Abram, nor Leo were sent to the competition. This will be the last three places, and no one has canceled the arms market and anti-advertising

[Maz]

An Israeli comrade would still have a machine gun and a grenade launcher with a reserve of 400 shots.

[seregatara1969]

a badger or barberry - will determine the time

[Thrall]

The next step is to return the Merkava Tower back

[Tusv]

Figase speed. Only recently We demonstrated a universal combat module, as Israel already did. And who now has the palm of copy-paste?

[Arameev]

Quote: Tusv

Only recently, we demonstrated a universal combat module,

and is a universal combat module a purely Russian notion? no one else in the world has?
especially since this is not direct copying ... here are the Chinese you directly rip off everything that isn’t falling ... so what ????

[Tusv]

Quote: Arameev

and is a universal combat module a purely Russian notion? no one else in the world has?

Maybe there is. But here is the similarity of the solution. Drill a hole and install the module and FSO

especially since this is not direct copying ..

Well yes. This is a reverse engineering method. We saw the idea, liked it, implemented it in our own way

[Arameev]

Quote: Tusv

[
... drill a hole and install the module and FSO

well ... we can say that the combat modules can in many ways be similar ..

[Tusv]

Quote: Arameev

well ... we can say that the combat modules can in many ways be similar ..

Of course, the means of defeat is 360 degrees.

[hrych]

Quote: Arameev

here are the Chinese you directly rip off everything that is not falling

For some reason, smart Chinese do not rip off Merkava, the clever, wise, and wise know something

[Arameev]

Quote: hrych

For some reason, smart Chinese do not rip off Merkava, the clever, wise, and wise know something

and what, the Chinese have a "Merkava" as a model? and ... even if it were, it’s not a fact that they would tear it off ... all the same, our machine was made largely for our needs and conditions ... IMHO

[Operator]

Quote: hrych

the Chinese do not rip off Merkava

Merkava itself is an infantry fighting vehicle with an airborne squad and an 120-mm cannon - An example with an 30-mm bullet rests

[padded jacket]

Quote: Operator

Merkava itself is a BMP with an airborne squad and a 120 mm cannon

But the conditions for the "paratroopers" in the Merkava tank are not very simple but simply put there they feel like "frogs in the ball" and there’s no talk of transporting some kind of landing there at high speed and over rough terrain.

[Operator]

That was sarcasm

[padded jacket]

Quote: Operator

It was a sarcasm laughing

Then sorry

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: quilted jacket

But the conditions for the "paratroopers" in the Merkava tank are not very simple, simply put, they feel there like "frogs in the ball" and there is no talk of transporting some kind of landing there at high speed and over rough terrain.

That's right. The "landing compartment" in the MK is intended primarily for the evacuation of crews from damaged vehicles. Well, or quickly transfer the infantry to a short segment.

[padded jacket]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Well, or quickly transfer the infantry to a short segment.

Well, how many "infantry" in the "Merkava" fits?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: quilted jacket

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Well, or quickly transfer the infantry to a short segment.

Well, how many "infantry" in the "Merkava" fits?

Four in full SIBZ and weapons or two wounded on a stretcher.

[padded jacket]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Four in full SIBZ and weapons

Four can be accommodated there only on condition that the ammunition is removed from the tank, and if it remains then only two or three from the force and even then in terrible crowding.
Here is the corridor in which the "paratroopers" of the Merkava tank can sit, provided that the ammunition remains in the tank.

[Shark Lover]

Quote: quilted jacket

Provided that the ammunition remains in the tank.

Is there a living “rammer” in Merkava? MH no?

[user1212]

Rh120 charging live, hydraulic rammer

[padded jacket]

Quote: Shark Lover

Is there a living “rammer” in Merkava? MH no?

Where did they get the AZ? Israeli Jews took a cannon from the German "Leopard" because they could not create their own due to the extreme backwardness of their "design personnel"

[And Us Rat]

Quote: user1212

Rh120 charging live, hydraulic rammer

Rh120 has never been purchased by Israel; on Merkava stands MG253 manufactured by IMI.

Distributed delusionthat this gun is a licensed version of the Rheinmetall gun, in fact this is IMI development, development was carried out from 1983 to 1988 year.
Rh120 was exported only to the USA.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: quilted jacket

But the conditions for the "paratroopers" in the Merkava tank are not very simple but simply put there they feel like "frogs in the ball" and there’s no talk of transporting some kind of landing there at high speed and over rough terrain.

and what are the conditions of the landing in t-72?

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Maki Avellievich

and what are the conditions of the landing in t-72?

[Monos]

Quote: Tusv

And who now has the palm of copy-paste?

No one. Firstly, technical ideas are international. And, secondly, they are just beginning to test, while the T-15 is already being tested for 2.

[Tusv]

Quote: Monos

No one. Firstly, technical ideas are international. And, secondly, they are just beginning to test, while the T-15 is already being tested for 2.

T-15 does not have a universal combat module,

[Monos]

Quote: Tusv

T-15 does not have a universal combat module,

And "universal" is what?

[Tusv]

Quote: Monos

And "universal" is what?

These are minimal changes in the design of the object. In fact, a hole in the upper projection and wiring. Turret drive and turret ammunition

[Monos]

In this case, on the T-15, all three of the modules being developed are quite universal.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Tusv

T-15 does not have a universal combat module,

At serial Babaris there will be a Baikal module, if that ... without any structural changes to the platform itself.

[Tusv]

Quote: NEXUS

At serial Babaris there will be a Baikal module, if that ... without any structural changes to the platform itself.

Andrey, I’m talking about the difference. And the Israeli colleagues trynd: "And here we have the DUM." Yes, garbage is not thought out. We, too, once bought Christy and Vickers, but in the armored vehicles they staged a third revolution, and in the DUMAs too

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Tusv

Figase speed. Only recently We demonstrated a universal combat module, as Israel already did. And who now has the palm of copy-paste?

Are you kidding me? The prototype was demonstrated in the 2012 year.

[Tusv]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Are you kidding me? The prototype was demonstrated in the 2012 year.

Prototype? Cheto is not like that. You wrapped up the idea of ​​a prototype. By lineup, this is a deep upgrade. And then we took advantage of our idea

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Tusv

Prototype? Cheto is not like that. You wrapped up the idea of ​​a prototype. By lineup, this is a deep upgrade. And then we took advantage of our idea

Well, yes, we didn’t put a DUM on your armored car before your idea.

[Tusv]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Well, yes, we didn’t put a DUM on your armored car before your idea.

And why didn’t your DUMs arrange?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Tusv

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Well, yes, we didn’t put a DUM on your armored car before your idea.

And why didn’t your DUMs arrange?

Well, the time has come and ripened. The dispute between supporters and opponents of cannon armored personnel carriers in the IDF has long been ongoing.

[Tusv]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Well, the time has come and ripened.

Yes, here on the Mi-8 for a long time EW and the means of destruction put. There are no options

[stone]

For that matter, the T-15 is the embodiment of the idea of ​​a heavy armored personnel carrier based on MBT, which the Israelis developed for many years, starting with Ahzarit, later Namer. But sticking a module with a gun instead of a machine gun is not difficult. Just apparently the military made an appropriate decision. Perhaps with an eye on the T-15 as well.

[poquello]

Quote: stone

T-15 embodiment of the idea

Armata incarnation failure protect bridges from the idea.

[ProkletyiPirat]

let’s say frankly, the ability to withstand 50+ tons has been introduced into the construction of automobile bridges for a long time, usually the maximum load is calculated for two trucks with full container load, and this is about 30t (container) + 15t (tractor) we also have 45 + 45 = 90t that the mass of the tank is limited to 70-75t. At the same time, old bridges with a load of up to 50 tons remain, but only they become smaller from year to year. Well, and the main reason, all bridges are the first target for destruction, and it’s also a very convenient position for enemy reconnaissance, because in the event of a real war, it’s still necessary to organize crossings, which means there’s no point in introducing a limit on the mass of equipment of 50 tons.
Although PMSM is still worth limiting the mass of equipment for the sake of mobility and air travel.

[poquello]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

let's say right long ago in the construction of automobile bridges

so then in the construction of bridges, not the concept of tanks

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: poquello

so then in the construction of bridges, not the concept of tanks

So what? does it change anything?

[Dead duck]

Quote: Tusv

Figase speed. Only recently We demonstrated a universal combat module

Conventional remotely controlled modules (all in one) with the ability to install on almost everything (if desired). Every year such good is offered in the world by "bags".

[Tusv]

Quote: Deadush

Every year such good is offered in the world by "bags".

I saw this good From DShK completely killed. I repeat Israel took our concept. I'm happy for them

[Tusv]

Quote: Deadush

Conventional remote-controlled modules (all in one)

Is it ordinary? That's the question. These are hinged technologies for our turntables. Impact power, without tearing off technological details. A small tower with the power of an automatic gun. I repeat. This Jews did not decide. Bought and screwed

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Tusv

Is it ordinary? That's the question. These are hinged technologies for our turntables. Impact power, without tearing off technological details. A small tower with the power of an automatic gun. I repeat. This Jews did not decide. Bought and screwed

There is no evidence, but there is a desire to somehow cheat. Happenes.

[Alexey RA]

Somewhere I already saw it - how they made a universal combat vehicle out of armored personnel carriers:

[voyaka uh]

An infantry fighting vehicle must be able to fire simultaneously forward and backward / on the sides.
One tower is not capable of this.
Need an independent machine gun back, drive away the grenade launchers,
forward and back-side attackers.
And in TBMP it is not.

[padded jacket]

And how many such "shaitan-arba"? One or two?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: quilted jacket

And how many such "shaitan-arba"? One or two?

There are probably few of these yet.
In general, the troops already have two brigade sets.

[padded jacket]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

There are probably few of these yet.

That is, as I wrote one or two.

Quote: Aron Zaavi

In general, the troops already have two brigade sets.

Just Namers? And this is how many 100-200 pieces?
And the rest of the Israeli Jews ride the "ancient" M113 times of the Vietnamese won?

[voyaka uh]

M113 Zelda remained only with the troops of the engineering corps.

[padded jacket]

Quote: voyaka uh

M113 Zelda remained only with the troops of the engineering corps.

I do not know Zelda you have them or not, but the bulk of the "infantry" of the Israeli regime is moving precisely to M113.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: quilted jacket

Quote: voyaka uh

M113 Zelda remained only with the troops of the engineering corps.

I do not know Zelda you have them or not, but the bulk of the "infantry" of the Israeli regime is moving precisely to M113.

And what is the infantry of the Russian regime moving on?

[voyaka uh]

No. On Ahzarit (remade from captured T-54 tanks) and Namers.

[corporal]

Quote: voyaka uh

One tower is not capable of this.

Strange statement. Doesn’t she know how to rotate?

Quote: voyaka uh

Need an independent machine gun back, drive away the grenade launchers,
forward and back-side attackers.

Or problems with the sensors in the feed?
=========================
According to sabzh, tell me whose tower production and actually what kind of gun? Bushmaster?
In the article for some reason not a word.

[Professor]

Quote: Corporal

According to sabzh, tell me whose tower production and actually what kind of gun? Bushmaster?
In the article for some reason not a word.

http://oleggranovsky.livejournal.com/57396.html

[corporal]

[quote = professor] [/ quote]
Well, if there MK44 Bushmaster II, then perhaps I will supplement:

[Oleg7700]

Judging by the recognizable electro-optics of Elbit Systems, the main developer of the tower could be this company, but not necessarily: IMOD's Tank Program Administration (MANTAK), the Ministry of Defense, could act as the general contractor of the development, with its specialists, coordinating everyone else.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: voyaka uh

An infantry fighting vehicle must be able to fire simultaneously forward and backward / on the sides.
One tower is not capable of this.
Need an independent machine gun back, drive away the grenade launchers,
forward and back-side attackers.
And in TBMP it is not.

Well, there is a coaxial machine gun. Slot under it to the right of the gun. Then look how beautifully entered KAZ in this DUM . In addition there is an 60mm mortar with revolving loading. And what is very curious on “Eitan" will rise analrgic DUM.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Well, there is a coaxial machine gun. Slot under it to the right of the gun. Then look how beautifully KAZ entered into this DUM. In addition there is a 60mm mortar with revolving loading. And what is very curious on “Eitan" will rise analrgic DUM.

The module looks good, purely outwardly. Although of course the 30 mm cannon is budget and yesterday. Maybe of course the Israeli Ministry of Finance will sort out the toad and finance the installation of spikes. Then it will be more fun. Although of course it’s all the same 30 mm gun yesterday.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

The module looks good, purely outwardly. Although of course the 30 mm cannon is budget and yesterday. Maybe of course the Israeli Ministry of Finance will sort out the toad and finance the installation of spikes. Then it will be more fun. Although of course it’s all the same 30 mm gun yesterday.

It’s a good gun with modern ammunition.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

It’s a good gun with modern ammunition.

What good? PF action is weak, you can of course shoot programmable projectiles with GPE which will improve the fragmentation effect, but it is expensive. BPS modern infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers do not take forehead from acceptable distances, the same Puma as far as I remember and do not take on board with ext. booking. Need a 40-45 mm CTAS gun.

[voyaka uh]

Here on Eitan such a tower - that’s it. And to use it without landing, as a light but well-protected infantry support vehicle. And on Namer - machine guns in all directions.

[Dead duck]

Quote: voyaka uh

Need an independent machine gun back, drive away the grenade launchers,

Drive away - enough brooms or rags (dampened by the allocation of the human life process).

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: voyaka uh

An infantry fighting vehicle must be able to fire simultaneously forward and backward / on the sides.

What for? BMP is supported by infantry; without machine support, no machine guns can save. Although, in principle, you can still have a separate machine gun module on the turret and a couple of spikes and it will be optimal in my opinion.

[voyaka uh]

"you can still separate machine-gun module on the tower" ////

What I wrote about. Unfolded back.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: voyaka uh

What I wrote about. Unfolded back.

This is a little bit wrong. The firing angle of the module should be 360 ​​degrees, like the tower. Too many machine guns are expensive and not effective because they require additional operators, and without them it will be inconvenient to manage all this economy.

[voyaka uh]

"Too many machine guns are expensive and not effective because it requires additional operators" ////

You're right. Need an additional machine gun operator. But they are - these are paratroopers.
One of them while driving can protect the machine from behind - remotely - from a remote machine gun turret. Of course, this must be taught in advance. But the end justifies the means: APCs often hit from behind, and the tower does not have time to spin and save the car.

[poquello]

Quote: voyaka uh

An infantry fighting vehicle must be able to fire simultaneously forward and backward / on the sides.
One tower is not capable of this.
Need an independent machine gun back, drive away the grenade launchers,
forward and back-side attackers.
And in TBMP it is not.

so this mandala will fit perfectly, only you need a panorama control system that does not respond to a change in plane

[Maz]

Well I say - a machine gun is needed.

[Igor K]

The German “Lux” had a machine gun in the back, later they refused. It’s supposed to have its own infantry at the back, it’s fun to shoot all the way through, but not aiming, because you need to detect the enemy at least.

[Megamarcel]

Well, where is the performance characteristics?

[KGB_TSRU]

TTX of what, guns? can classified. And so what are the performance characteristics here, everything is not new. At the base of the merkava.

[Razvedka_Boem]

Without a tower it was like this:
Performance characteristics:
Crew - 3 person
Landing - 9 people
Length - 7450 mm
Width - 3700 mm
Combat weight - 60 tons
Booking - multi-layer composite + dynamic protection
The power plant is a multi-fuel turbocharged diesel engine with a capacity of 1200 hp.
Speed ​​- 64 km / h
Cruising on the highway - 500 km
Power density - 20 hp / t
The tower I think adds a ton and a half.

[stone]

Not a dynamic defense, but KAZ Trophy

[KGB_TSRU]

The gun is useful, tearing enemies to shreds.

[Dead duck]

Quote: KGB_CRU

The gun is useful, tearing enemies to shreds.

how aggressive you are ... you should tear everything ... and throw ...

Quote: KGB_CRU

TX what, guns? can classified. And so what are the performance characteristics here

Therefore, didn’t they show in automatic mode? ... so as not to “burn” with accuracy ...

[KGB_TSRU]

Quote: Deadush

how aggressive you are ... you would have to tear everything ... and toss.

We have a defense army, we are kind and peaceful

[sabakina]

Then we have an army of retreat! Each time we almost leave for the Urals, but the current has not yet brought the sun, as M. Zadornov said ...

[Dead duck]

and a hidden "armored train" type does not count?

[sabakina]

"armored train" is a weapon of mass destruction. In short, Earth kirdyk!

[badens1111]

Quote: Deadush

"armored train" type does not count?

We have everything .. and they have a tower on the base of carrots planted and voila, the prodigy turned out ..
http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/172295/

[poquello]

Quote: KGB_CRU

Quote: Deadush

how aggressive you are ... you would have to tear everything ... and toss.

We have a defense army, we are kind and peaceful

A 30mm pacifik is certainly correct, but if in Lebanon, in Syria, IMHO, the trend is at a distance, they will save them from ambushes, well, in the area of ​​dense development, too, nothing can crush the front - a short fit

[Normal ok]

TBMP is the right machine. And Israel knows a lot about their production. You can only envy.

[Igor K]

The machine is made for specific combat missions, the task of the Jewish partisans to drive with the least possible participation of their own soldiers. Our Russian army has other tasks in the light of existing geopolitics.

[KGB_TSRU]

And what kind of flag is on it? Ukrainian or something


That would be, but unmanned. It would be cool. Let the enemies fight and negotiate with the machine, with the microcircuit.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: KGB_CRU

And what kind of flag is on it? Ukrainian or something
That would be, but unmanned. It would be cool. Let the enemies fight and negotiate with the machine, with the microcircuit.

Rabinovich, do not disgrace.

[sabakina]

Aron, let him, if he does not want to know history, history knows him. Damn, wrapped in ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: KGB_CRU

And what kind of flag is on it? Ukrainian or something

Israel tse Ukraine.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: KGB_CRU

And what kind of flag is on it? Ukrainian or something.

Collateral Service Flag. (חיל הלוגיסטיקה)

[Sergerius]

For local databases as a reference point

[san4es]

Salon of the luxury of the "Nemera"

[KGB_TSRU]

Wow, thanks.

[san4es]

Quote: KGB_CRU

Wow, thanks.

... please
Found, another module ...
... and "cheburovich" to him

[KGB_TSRU]

some strange buttons, levers

[san4es]

Quote: KGB_CRU

some strange buttons, levers

... this is an antigens

[Okolotochny]

2
KGB_CIA Today, 20:04 ↑
some strange buttons, levers smile

They probably drive him for speed. Oh and mechanical waterways at AOI.

[DEPARTMENT]

Quote: KGB_CRU

Wow, thanks.

To escape, it’s hard, of course .. but for suitcases with diamonds just right, get to the submarine! Airfields will no longer operate ..

[KGB_TSRU]

and where to get to the store for a new bubble?

[san4es]

Quote: KGB_CRU

and where to get to the store for a new bubble?

... on the bike

[JD1979]

Quote: DEPARTMENT

Quote: KGB_CRU

Wow, thanks.

To escape, it’s hard, of course .. but for suitcases with diamonds just right, get to the submarine! Airfields will no longer operate ..

A joke for 100. When you drink, do not forget to eat.

[And Us Rat]

Vitalik ignites!

[padded jacket]

Quote: san4es

Salon of the luxury of the "Nemera"

What do you want? This Namemer is huge naturally in him a lot of space.

[poquello]

Quote: quilted jacket

The call is huge naturally in it a lot of space.

maybe they can buy lacquered ikarus from the Hungarians

[Maz]

You can’t miss it

[san4es]

... In this photo, I do not understand what kind of base ... "Merkava" il no - HZ

[KGB_TSRU]

I do not know.
I only drove the M113, which had fought in the Vietnam War.

[Professor]

Quote: san4es

... In this photo, I do not understand what kind of base ... "Merkava" il no - HZ

T-55

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: san4es

... In this photo, I do not understand what kind of base ... "Merkava" il no - HZ

This is "Ahzarit MK2". There was an idea about ten years ago to put a cannon on them. It didn’t fit together.

[Aspid 57]

This is Ahzarit. In girlhood T-54/55.

[voyaka uh]

This is Ahzarit, an alteration from the T-54

[irazum]

For street fights, that's it!

[Operator]

And how many screams from the Israelis over the decades have been that there are basically no and never will be infantry fighting vehicles in the IDF that support the landing with fire from their guns.

Type "Nemer" only infantry transporter to the battlefield and no more

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Operator

And how many screams from the Israelis over the decades have been that there are basically no and never will be infantry fighting vehicles in the IDF that support the landing with fire from their guns.
Type "Nemer" only infantry transporter to the battlefield and no more

Everything changes. Including threats surrounding our country. If in 2000 in the IDF there were 32 TBr, then by 2028 only 14 will remain. And the number of infantry brigades will double. Proceeding from this, they will change the OSh and the armament of the NE.

[Operator]

Apparently, the matter is different: the AOI leadership struck to the core the TBMP T-15 Barberry with the 30-mm gun and KAZ, after which they immediately wanted to have an analogue - TBMP "Nemer" with the 30-mm gun and SAZ.

But these decisions are already behind the times - the 30-mm BOPS do not penetrate the Barberry and Nemer armor from the word at all, and ATGMs are intercepted at the expense of KAZ / SAZ times.

To combat the enemy’s TBMP, it is necessary to install normal three-inch guns (at least) as part of the SAMA on their TBPM.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Operator

Apparently, the matter is different: the AOI leadership struck to the core the TBMP T-15 Barberry with the 30-mm gun and KAZ.

Funny.

[Operator]

It will be good to laugh with someone whose gun will be more caliber.

[Maz]

Operator, they are sometimes right

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Operator

It will be good to laugh with someone whose gun will be more caliber.

Not always

[Operator]

Is this the prototype of the new Israeli infantry fighting vehicle?

[On guard]

I wonder if it is possible to shoot down helicopters or planes with such a gun.

[Aspid 57]

If you get, then you can! Especially at the airport!

[corporal]

Quote: On guard

Is it possible to shoot down helicopters or airplanes from such a gun?

Judging by the presence of a programmable fuse (I posted the video at the top) - it is quite possible that the UAV is unambiguous. If there is an appropriate SLA.

[Clone]

In less than 12 years, a tower with weapons appeared on the armor ...

[Atlant-1164]

One more word about Chinese reliability ..

According to the results of the first day of the tank biathlon competition in Alabino, the Chinese ZTZ-96B tank turned out to be faster and more accurate than the Russian T-72B3. The reason for this was a major work on the mistakes of Chinese designers.

For example, a device for accounting for thermal bending of the barrel (UUI), which so far is not found on any serial Russian tank, was installed on a Chinese tank, the expert claims. Although such a device was also tested in the framework of the “Rogatka-1” design missile as part of the “Product 184M” experimental tank (T-72B2), which were completed back in 2007. But 10 years have passed, and the IUI is still not on Russian tanks.
In addition, the Russians do not have an engine that can be compared with the Chinese in power. More precisely, there is one, but it does not fit in the engine-transmission compartment of tanks of the T-72 / T-90 type due to its too large size.

The maximum engine power, the installation of which is possible in the T-72 and T-90 tanks, is 1130 liters. with. In Russia, a more powerful engine was also developed - the B-99, which produced 1200 liters. s., but it was very hot, its cooling required such power that its selection negated all the advantages.
He also had too little resource. The Chinese, apparently, solved the problems with increasing the power of their engine.

[Arameev]

Quote: Atlant-1164

One more word about Chinese reliability ..
According to the results of the first day of the tank biathlon competition in Alabino, the Chinese ZTZ-96B tank turned out to be faster and more accurate than the Russian T-72B3. .

Russia - 19:10 the best time
China - 19:40 second place

[poquello]

Quote: Arameev

Russia - 19:10 the best time
China - 19:40 second place

and they fuck, if only to leave shit

[Igor K]

As long as the tracks do not break and their wheels do not fall off, that’s good. Copying and doing quality is not the same thing. Our weapons are the best with poor managers and generals so far, but then everything has "not yet begun", and then there is rotation through the "wall".

[Holoy]

The first to receive these armored personnel carriers is the Golani brigade, the second Givati ​​...

[Zaurbek]

Literally half a year ago, Israeli comrades with foam at the mouth proved that they did not need a heavy armored personnel carrier tower ....

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Zaurbek

Literally half a year ago, Israeli comrades with foam at the mouth proved that they did not need a heavy armored personnel carrier tower ....

Not true. We explained the concept of AOI. Raise the spores. I was a supporter of cannon DUM even then.

[voyaka uh]

And now I’m not sure that a gun is needed. More useful, in my opinion, are several machine guns in different directions.

[Maz]

Of course, a few machine guns, but what about, and what is the range of your machine guns? 1000m, and the cannon 4 km. So it’s unlikely that they will soon add machine guns by repeating the BMP2,3,4 path. and grenade launcher add

[Igor K]

For your tasks, of course, the partisans have no light armored vehicles.

[bald]

And here is an interesting question, and who is the developer. all systems created in the union, absolutely all. There has always been, to any development (who is related to the products, and who is simply not Us) --- Jews hiding under the end of the surname. With you, the work was immaculate, but, you !!!, you’re corrupt in life - and you don’t understand the technology, steal further Russia is rich.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Stop drinking at night.

Aron, and when else to drink, in the morning or what?
Just the measure you need to know.
And then it’s real, they get nasty, then they barely get on the keyboard, and they can’t finish the sentence - while they are typing, the thought thread breaks. Pithecanthropus.

[Aspid 57]

Absolutely everything was created in the Union! Well of course! And Soviet people walked on the moon! And the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, which simultaneously taught 20 Nobel laureates, is located in the Siberian Academgorodok! Damn thing megalomania! Virtually untreated!

[KGB_TSRU]

Quote: bald

who is the developer. all systems created in the union

Jewish developers, both in the Union and in Israel.

[Igor K]

Mania of greatness is not a good comrade.

[bald]

A good joke, I would be afraid of her, TTD-I do not believe. Although the Jews themselves will never do badly. I ask our specialists (Gen ..., Nexus ...), a solid technique in essence
, I am not special in this -, I trust you. Your opinion. "Nexus" I understand that everything bothers you - without you it’s bad.

[cedar]

Quote: KGB_CRU

Quote: Deadush

how aggressive you are ... you would have to tear everything ... and toss.

We have a defense army, we are kind and peaceful

Army "defense" Holy Land (Eretz Yisrael), from the Nile to the Euphrates ...

[tchoni]

That pleases the eye the right tank srach! and gently warms the soul.)))
What was surprising: the fact that the sons of Israel still decided to put a gun (I remember they initially refused it, although they tried a prototype). The second moment of surprise was the fact that the infantry waved a cannon for a long time asking (although in the pages of VO and in the comments to us, goyim, it proved the opposite). Type answers: there used to be tanks out of stock, but now it’s completely lacking - they sound somehow unconvincing, or something .....
Apologists T-15 I want to remind a couple of facts
1) T-15 is not yet in the series and not in the army. Neither chassis nor weapons.
2) At the extreme parade of victory was generally absent as a class. (What can mean anything from the rejection of it all the way down to a completely unfeasible subject with the replacement of the caterpillar mover with anti-gravity)
3) It’s already about 10 years (TEN CARL) that it has actually been exploited by the troops and from childhood diseases, one must think that it was healed.
From these facts, a trivial conclusion suggests itself: to compare T15 and intent - this is how to compare a perfectly round horse in a vacuum with a real horse)))))

[Maz]

You would also compare the size of the countries, population and the number of armed forces of Russia and Israel for happiness in general. These are different levels and approaches. At least a hundred years old Karl, they need fifty of such intentions, and we need hundreds if not thousands. If at all, it will be needed.

[Oleg7700]

SW Maz! If those who are right at Israeli specialized forums who believe that the first will receive them are infantry companies as part of tank battalions, then many times more than fifty ...

[Pecheneg]

“A short 30 mm cannon makes a war machine more maneuverable ...” how does the presence of a gun affect maneuverability?

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Pecheneg

How does the presence of a gun affect maneuverability?

does not interfere with passing and turning around in narrow buildings.

[Roma 1977]

It doesn’t crash into the walls of Arab houses during sharp turns.

[Zaurbek]

To move in and out ... NATO has 2 main 30mm calibers:
30 × 173 mm
30 × 113 mm
The first is comparable to 2A42 (a bit more powerful, there are depleted uranium shells), and the second is almost a grenade launcher, but it made it possible to make a lighter gun (On APACH)

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Zaurbek

To move in and out ... NATO has 2 main caliber 30mm

The states, NATO have much more.
On this Namer stands the Mk44 Bushmaster II 30 × 173 mm.

[Zaurbek]

And the USSR army has a lot more ... there is an anti-aircraft 30mm:
30 × 210 mm B
AK-230 (Soviet anti-aircraft gun)

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Zaurbek

And the USSR army has a lot more ... there is an anti-aircraft 30mm:
30 × 210 mm B
AK-230 (Soviet anti-aircraft gun)

Postwar 30mm:
30 × 113 mm B
M230
Aden
DEFA 550
GIAT 30 M 781
30 × 150 mm B
GIAT 30 M 791
30 × 155 mm B
HP-30
30 × 165 mm
GSH-30-1
GSH-30-2
GSH-6-30
6K30GS
AK-630
AK-630M-2
AK-630M1-2
AK-306
2А42
2А72
2А38
30 × 170 mm
L21A1 RARDEN
KCB
30 × 173 mm
GAU-8 Avenger cartridge with aluminum sleeve for the Air Force
Mark 44 (Bushmaster II)
EMAK 30 Denel Land Systems
Maadi griffin
Rheinmetall Mk 30
Oerlikon KSA
Goalkeeper ZRAK
Type 730 ZRAK
Type 1130 ZRAK
H / PJ14 (COP / AN2)
H / PJ17
30 × 192 mm
Zastava M86
Zastava M89
30 × 210 mm B
AK-230
M53 / 59 Praga
30 × 250 mm Caseless
Rheinmetall RMK30

[Igor K]

Jewish partisans in settlements does not interfere with chasing)).

[Professor]

Namer overcomes the anti-tank moat in the Golan


Engineering Namer.


Briefing before driving: "If the seat is not comfortable, then it can be raised or pushed forward ..."

[Igor K]

Is this a Soviet tank redone?

[Zaurbek]

In general, I think that you can saturate the army with such vehicles from old funds ... T-72, T-64 ... Upgrade your armor, install the systems using the T-72B3 example - here’s the Heavy BMP and the platform for Terminator. And when it goes to the T-14 and T-15 series, the army will already have something to ride on ...

[ProkletyiPirat]

they already thought it turned out very expensive, it’s easier and cheaper to take the same Almaty and Kurgan just cut the filling electronically and the price will drop right away.

[Zaurbek]

..and time? what about the life of a soldier?

[ProkletyiPirat]

What are we fighting at the moment? I immediately say Syria does not count there they are unnecessary to us.

[Zaurbek]

And what were we fighting in the Chechen Republic with? And Ukraine is nearby ...

[ProkletyiPirat]

There is no war in Chechnya, there are counter-terrorist operations, they do not use BMPs or TBMPs, they need ramps for the military police or other equipment suitable for driving on "public roads" and at the same time resistant to sabotage.

As for Ukraine, we won’t fight there, it’s not profitable for us, it’s more profitable for us to wait with the indirect support of LDNR. The result is the same, but then we have less hemorrhoids and it is trite cheaper

[Zaurbek]

No one is going to fight there, but there are dangers for the country (theoretical), based on which the technical characteristics of the equipment are set

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Zaurbek

based on them the technical characteristics of the equipment are set

Dear captain, obvious, take a pie from a shelf, chew, drink it, and now take it and think if you need the BMP / TBMP offered by the tanks at the same cost as the Kurgan / Armata if they have lower TTX? And do not tell me that they (Kurgan \ Armata) are "much more expensive", the price will be the same if there is an equal filling. And do not tell me that the Kurgan / Armata are still being tested, what you proposed has not even been designed yet, and when everything is done, the Kurgan with armature will go into series.

[Zaurbek]

Captain is not obvious! I mean that such machines were needed back in the 90s, with well-known events. Will ARMAT make a lot of camp? And T-72 were on the conveyor belt in the USSR and there were thousands of them in warehouses.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Yes they were needed
Yes they weren’t,
Yes, a lot of other things were needed, but they didn’t do the same,
Yes, they’ve done the bastard of everything nafig unnecessary,
Yes, the Russian Federation continues this "wonderful" tradition seized from the USSR,
Yes, this time TBMP came under the exception
But all this does not change the fact that the idea you proposed is not effective.

[Zaurbek]

When the mass release of the ARMATA platform begins, send me a letter.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Zaurbek

When the mass release of the ARMATA platform begins, send me a letter.

your sorkazm is inappropriate, your BMP on the basis of the existing tank is not even in the DRAWING! not to mention metal, and your infantry fighting vehicle is not ready for testing at the moment, and if you are given the resources for implementation, it will be ready no earlier than in a few years, by this time the Kurgan and armata will have passed all the tests several times

[72jora72]

Quote: Monster_Fat

and "you" as usual; if only on paper the thick-bellied generals liked “power”, but to “cheaper” for the “bujet”, well, but the people of “women still give birth” ....

And we "as usual" will tear anyone who climbs our ass ........ and including you.

[Meliodous]

Oh, I can't laugh. Israel and I don’t even have common borders, and there seems to be nothing to share, stupidly because of the difference in the size of countries and their goals. But to put on the Arabs - no, thanks, for how many times they have already punched me.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Meliodous

Israel and I don’t even have common borders

when would this war stop

[CRP]

Quote: Maz

You would also compare the size of the countries, population and the number of armed forces of Russia and Israel for happiness in general. These are different levels and approaches. At least a hundred years old Karl, they need fifty of such intentions, and we need hundreds if not thousands. If at all, it will be needed.

Well, something I do not understand. A country in which fewer people live and there are no resources that they could sell to make the best military equipment easier?

[ProkletyiPirat]

Yes, it’s simpler, they’re small “they all know each other,” because they’re faster at making decisions.
We have everything through F, well, to be exact, not F, but somewhere nearby ... We even come to the MO with a ready-made idea, with a developed product, with copies ready for testing, even if you give them a couple of copies to run in, even if you kick them on all the channels so that they move, and even if you don’t ask for anything for yourself, then after a couple of years the meringue will be sent to you anyway.

[tchoni]

Our country is used to living off altruists ....

[ProkletyiPirat]

not only altruism is not enough, there is a rule "not thanks, but contrary"

[And Us Rat]

Quote: CRP

and there are no resources that they could sell

Key phrase. You have to sell the result of higher nervous activity, and this is a perishable product, hence the habit of not putting it into a distant box.

[ProkletyiPirat]

as well as the habit of tearing ourselves up in search of new ideas, and not waiting until everything is brought on a silver platter with a golden cutter, and even for "thank you."

[Professor]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

as well as the habit of tearing ourselves up in search of new ideas, and not waiting until everything is brought on a silver platter with a golden cutter, and even for "thank you."

Definitely.

[CRP]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

Yes, it’s simpler, they’re small “they all know each other,” because they’re faster at making decisions.
We have everything through F, well, to be exact, not F, but somewhere nearby ... We even come to the MO with a ready-made idea, with a developed product, with copies ready for testing, even if you give them a couple of copies to run in, even if you kick them on all the channels so that they move, and even if you don’t ask for anything for yourself, then after a couple of years the meringue will be sent to you anyway.

What you described has nothing to do with the size of the country. US does not interfere modernize or create a new technique. What, then, does the Baltic States or Luxembourg not represent as examples of engineering and military thought? Probably not the size of the matter.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: CRP

Probably not the size of the matter.

It’s not a matter of size, but of a way of organizing, just a small state is easier to reorganize and control. In the USA, unlike the USSR and the Russian Federation, they analyze advanced technologies very well, but in our country no one is engaged in the analysis of technologies. Because technologies such as PC, Internet, GPS, etc. and they were created by them, and with us it was nafig to nobody. It was only then when they realized it in the USA, ours started "why don’t we have this? We want the same thing!" but when before they asked "give money for analytics and R&D" there was a shish

[CRP]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

It’s not a matter of size, but of a way of organizing, just a small state is easier to reorganize and control. In the USA, unlike the USSR and the Russian Federation, they analyze advanced technologies very well, but in our country no one is engaged in the analysis of technologies. Because technologies such as PC, Internet, GPS, etc. and they were created by them, and with us it was nafig to nobody. It was only then when they realized it in the USA, ours started "why don’t we have this? We want the same thing!" but when before they asked "give money for analytics and R&D" there was a shish

Well, the USA is not a simple and small state; there are 2.5 times more people of ours.

[padded jacket]

Quote: Operator

T.N. the armored capsule (additional reservation combined with the sides and the frontal part of the hull) is used only in the control unit of the T-14 tank.

There are no armored capsules in the T-15 airborne squad, the flooring is laid with a gap of 15 centimeters - in case of a mine explosion, the deformation of the bottom of the armored corps does not reach the legs of the paratroopers.

Who told you that? Below I gave a video about the T-15 where the designer said that her crew and the assault force are in an armored capsule and I think he knows more about this than you, so the steps that Lopatov says are not needed there

[ProkletyiPirat]

The armored capsule does not move during the mine / IED bombing, therefore it cannot compensate for the machine’s mixing during the blasting, therefore, the landing party gets injured in the legs and spine, therefore, with an average blasting, the landing party is not combat-ready, and with a strong blasting, the landing party died from injuries.

[Operator]

padded jacket

Designers of all stripes and peoples have a language without bones - then they will see the notorious “armored capsule” in T-14 / T-15 (which generally means reinforced armored hull armor and no more), then they have a supersonic “Zircon” with a half-turn becomes hypersonic

[Operator]

ProkletyiPirat,
At the moment of a mine explosion, the bottom of the armored personnel carrier of the infantry fighting vehicle is hit (at least) and is deformed (at most). In any case, the feet and legs of the paratroopers are crushed. The floor, located with a gap relative to the bottom, eliminates the transmission of impact to the legs.

Throwing up the armored hull and the associated damage to the vertebrae of the paratroopers does not eliminate the flooring, but vertically movable seats with shock absorbers, which reduce the amount of acceleration due to the displacement of the seats down.

[ProkletyiPirat]

BOOST FROM OFFSET MACHINE GOES TWO POINTS ASS (further to the spine) И LEGS!!!
By God, read carefully.

As for the "double bottom", it is made NOT FOR PROTECTING FEET FROM HIT, but FOR PROTECTING FROM SPLITS that broke off the lower armor plate during its deformation, this is done by analogy with the Kevlar interior upholstery.

Quote: Operator

The floor, located with a gap relative to the bottom, eliminates the transmission of impact to the legs.

How can a flooring that does not move anywhere compensate for the blow? think before you answer ....

[Operator]

About the fact that the blow from a mine explosion is compensated for in different ways:
- for the support point of the “leg” by the method of spacing along the height of the flooring (floor of the airborne squad) and the bottom of the armored hull proper, between which easily destroyed inserts are placed;
- for the buttock pivot point by the vertical displacement of the paratrooper chair (downward).

In principle, the same effect can be achieved using a chair with steps, but the latter worsen the conditions for a quick occupation / leaving the airborne compartment.

[ProkletyiPirat]

if the legs are made correctly then nothing interferes

You have not answered how the floor compensates for the blow?

[Operator]

Easily destructible inserts between the bottom of the armored hull and the floor are deformed - the blow from a mine explosion is not transmitted to the floor.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Operator

Easily destructible the inserts between the bottom of the armored hull and the floor are deformed - the blow from a mine explosion is not transmitted to the flooring.

what you describe is true for cars in an accident, but when it’s undermined, it’s not there anymore, when it’s blown up, the propagation speed is higher, so the deformation is not effective. And anyway, think if the explosion struck armored, then there will be no sense from your flooring and the crew will burn down corny.

[Operator]

The inserts between the bottom of the armored hull and the flooring are broken by the shock wave itself from a mine explosion with the speed of its propagation in the structural material. Therefore, everything works as it should.

If there is a fact of breaking through the armored corps (when exceeding the mine / IED power of a given limit or using mines such as a shock core), there is no help for the landing - heavy shell shock from breaking through an air shock wave into the enclosed space of the armored corps is guaranteed.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Against mines \ IEDs with high power perfectly rescues the V-shaped bottom, if done correctly then most of the explosion energy deviates to the side. At the same time, for such a V-bottom as for a double-bottom with deformation, you need a lot of space, only the V-bottom is cheaper, simpler and more effective with the same dimensions in comparison with your double bottom.

[Operator]

The V-shaped bottom and increased ground clearance underneath it really save from mines and IEDs of increased power (up to a certain limit, of course).

But this design approximately doubles the height of the center of gravity of the armored vehicles and it falls to the side when moving over rough terrain. Therefore, the V-shaped bottom is made only with wheeled armored personnel carriers, designed to move exclusively on public roads.

[ProkletyiPirat]

In any case, with the same dimensions, the V-shaped bottom will be more effective, and the type of mover is not important here.

[Operator]

More efficiently, only the vehicle will be able to move only along the highway, just something

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Operator

More efficiently, only the vehicle will be able to move only along the highway, just something

Your sarcasm is not appropriate, for as I said "with the same dimensions".
Deviation of energy to the side will always be more efficient than its absorption.

[Zaurbek]

ProkletyiPirat,
To do this, only engineers with higher education and a good repair plant are needed.

[ProkletyiPirat]

for "this" is what for? If you are making a new discussion thread, be sure to insert a quote.

[Zaurbek]

I did not make a branch. Then, at some point, the “reply” button starts to work like this ...

[ProkletyiPirat]

there is an up arrow and you can answer indicating the top post you can answer it