Military Review

“They had no choice!” Horse in battles and campaigns (part one)

143
“Did you give the horse strength and put a mane on his neck?”
(Job 39-19)



"Praise of folly"
It is simply amazing what abysses of human ignorance are opening up today thanks to the capabilities of the Internet. I read recently in the comments that the Iron Age, it turns out, preceded the Bronze Age (and of course, the copper-stone), that there are no reliable historical data, and I do not even know how people come to such "conclusions". Or that the finds in the ground, well, those that are made by archaeologists ... just buried in order to dig up and sell later! Another "discovery" is worth it: horses, it turns out, have been imported to Europe from America since the XNUMXth century, and before they were in Europe ... there simply weren't.


One of the oldest images of a rider on a horse ...


Golden crest from the mound of Solokh. IV c. BC er Hermitage. The massive comb weighs 294 g, its height is 12.3, and the width of 10.2 is cm. Nineteen long tetrahedral teeth are joined by a frieze of lion figures. Above him is an amazing sculptural group depicting three warriors fighting. They are long-haired and bearded, and are dressed in characteristic Scythian clothes - kaftans, long trousers and shod in soft boots. Two of them, over kaftans, are clad in shells, and at the equestrian Scythian, presumably the king, he wears a typical Greek helmet, and on his shins are knomeid-leggings. All the weapons of the Scythians — shields of various shapes and designs, gorits-cases with bows and arrows, short Scythian akinaki swords in the sheath, the spear of one of the warriors — were transferred with great precision. The horse depicted on the ridge is small in size and it is obvious that the warrior is sitting on it, not using stirrups.

On the same Internet, I’m dialing the question: “How many people in Russia need urgent psychiatric help?” And the answer is immediately: “According to WHO, in the world by 2020, mental disorders will be among the top five diseases leading to disability. In Russia, the situation is complicated by an increase in the number of neurotic disorders associated with alcoholism, poverty and stress at work. According to research, every third Russian has a mental or neurotic (depressive) disorder. In Russia, up to 40% of the population have signs of any mental impairment. The share of those who need systematic psychiatric care accounts for 3-6% of the population, and the number of the most severe patients is 0,3-0,6%. ”(Http://medportal.ru/mednovosti/news/2017/06/15/682psycho /)

“They had no choice!” Horse in battles and campaigns (part one)

1. Horse rider image (near 3000 BC) from Torre de Bredos near La Coruna (Northern Spain)
2. Archer on a horse, rock drawing (Tibet), around 1200 BC. er
3. Horse rider, cave painting (Sahara), around 1000 BC. er
4. Taming wild horses, cave painting (Sahara), around 1000 BC. er
5. Riders on octopus horses and chariots, cave paintings (Central Sahara), around 1000 BC. er

However, it happened by the way. Simply, as an indicator that not all of us and not all are fine with brain activity. But here is the history of the horse ... After all, this is really really interesting, because who, if not a horse, made man the actual ruler of the planet? So you can even praise such people for ... "their faith", because it gives us the opportunity to tell how it really was. Moreover, the role of the horse in the history of mankind was indeed exceptionally great. Yes, cats kept his grain and health, preventing epidemics, which were carried by rodents. Dogs are hunters and watchmen, even under Tanks went to bed, trusting their masters. But most of all, it was the "greyhounds" that made for man. Without them, a person could not have mastered the vast expanses of the Asian steppes and North American prairies. Without a horse he would have no knights, there would be no great empires, the development of mankind has stretched for many millennia.


Temple of Abu Simbel in Egypt. Relief with the image of Pharaoh on the chariot.

So horse and war. The horse and the man in the war, the Scythians and horsemen of Alexander the Great, the guns of Attila and the knights on the mighty distributors - all of them will pass before us in a whole series of articles in which all this will be described in as much detail as possible.

About the "conspiracy of paleontologists", "The Stone Age stories" by HG Wells and the sexy girl Eile ...
Well, we will have to start with the topic we are not very characteristic. From paleontology - the science that studies the fossilized remains of ancient animals. And if the ancient artifacts, as some think, someone buried in the ground for the sake of their antiquity, then someone, and paleontologists, all the more should be suspected. After all, their bones and coprolites of dinosaurs are even older. That's just not clear how and for what purpose they do all this. However, if there is a “conspiracy of watchmakers”, a “Judeo-Masonic conspiracy” and even a “conspiracy of professional historians”, why not be a “conspiracy of paleontologists”? Around one "conspirators", how interesting, and it may be scary to live, is not it?


Assyrian relief from Nimrud, Central Palace, approx. 728 BC British museum.

Whatever it was, and having dug many tons, and there tons - thousands of tons of earth and sand, paleontologists found out that not only dinosaurs but also the ancestors of modern horses lived on Earth for a long time - 64-38 million years ago In Europe's forests lived the chiracotherium, and in North America, the eo-hippus (“early horse”) was an animal the size of a fox or a little more. Not only were they similar to modern horses, but, nevertheless, these were their ancestors.

The climate was changing, the vegetation was changing, and 38 – 26 a million years ago a meso-hippus (“middle horse”) appeared larger in size. Even larger was merigippus (27-26 million years ago), and then plio-hippus (5 – 2 million years ago.) Finally, quite recently, one might say, an equus appeared in North America — the immediate ancestor of modern horses, the size of a modern pony.


Bronze figure of a horse from Olympia, approx. 740 BC Louvre

Through the so-called Beringia - the isthmus existing in antiquity in the Bering Strait region, the ancestors of horses moved from America to Asia and vice versa, and after them came the people who hunted them. And they hunted so successfully that in North and South America in the post-glacial time all the ancestors of horses disappeared.


Alexander of Macedon on his Bucephalus. A fragment of a mosaic of Pompeii.

Well, the primitive horses that left North America soon spread throughout Asia, Europe and Africa. They lived both in areas with dense grass cover and soft and fertile soil, and on rocky mountain slopes, in the zone of arid steppes and deserts. According to these habitat zones, different types of horses appeared. Those that lived among dense vegetation and on wet soil, had a strong body and wide, relatively soft hooves. Mountain horses were small, graceful, had narrow and firm hooves. Their suit also matched the color of the environment. In forest areas, dark-colored horses survived, while it was more advantageous for inhabitants of deserts and steppes to have a yellow or gray color.


Alexander of Macedon on Bucephalus (sarcophagus from Sidon).

Information about how looked equus - the ancestor of modern horses, as well as donkeys and zebras, of course, not preserved. But we know what his descendants looked like - wild horses: the South Russian steppe horse, also called the steppe tarpan, the forest tarpan and the Przhevalsky horse, also known as the oriental wild horse. These types of horses two hundred years ago lived in Europe and Asia, but today they have almost completely disappeared. Here, except that Przewalski's horse is bred in our zoos. She has a height of withers to 130 cm and she is covered with thick yellow-gray hair. The head is massive, on the neck is a dark brush of a rigid mane and the same dark legs. The South Russian steppe tarpan, or simply tarpan, was sleeker than the Przewalski horse. This horse had an ash suit and a black “belt” along the entire back. Ponies appeared in the north of Europe, the Shetland Islands and in some other places with extreme climatic conditions like tundra, where so-called tundra ponies lived. All these three types of horses, gradually interbreeding among themselves by the will of man, became the ancestors of all known horse breeds today.


The skeleton of the eohyppus. The remains of these ancient horse-like are found all over the world.

But how did the horse become domestic and where exactly did it happen? HG Wells, the author of wonderful science fiction and social novels, was one of the first to try to answer this question in his Stone Age Stories. It makes no sense to retell their content. Who cares - will find on the Internet and read. It is important to emphasize the idea of ​​the author: everything could happen by chance. And then ... then something similar to what is described in the story will repeat more than once and end with domestication of the horse on which people began to ride.


The column of Trajan with the image of the Roman soldiers and their horses is a unique monument of the era of Traian's wars in Dacia.

An English writer Gene M. Auell described her version of this event in one of the books of her series of children of the Earth, which is called “The Valley of Horses”. Alone in a cave on the edge of the inhabited world, a girl from Cro-Magnon tribe sheltered a small horse and raised it. Then she learned to ride her, and when a foal appeared at the horse, she raised him. Then Ailu was found by a man of her biological type and ... taught her many interesting things, and she taught him to ride a horse.


"The path through the plain" - tells about the long journey of Eila and her lover Jandalar to his tribe. In general, the books in this series are quite funny. And Eila came up with a lancer, and she tame the horses before anyone else. But in general, the series of the novels “Children of the Earth” is very informative.

In total, the series includes as many as six large-page novels: "Clan of the Cave Bear", "Valley of Horses", "Mammoth Hunters", "Mammoth's Hearth", "Path through the Plain" and "Under the protection of the stone." In fact, it is an encyclopedia of primitive history, since Gene Aell is not just a writer, but also a scientist, and much of her novels are just traces of various monographs. The only drawback of the novel is the apparent excess of erotic scenes, but what can you do with it? Although on the other hand, what else did primitive people do at their leisure?


Among the Christian saints there are no beast-headed "gods"; this is the "privilege" of paganism. But there are no rules without exceptions. Those in the pantheon of Christian saints became St. Christopher. There are no saints with the heads of a cow, a dog, but there is a saint who wished to become a horse. It says a lot ... Wall mural from the Cathedral in Sviyazhsk.

"Alosh", "Kaval", "Cheval" and "spotlight" ...
In any case, the horse was domesticated and - judging by the burials with the horse (this is already a "paleontological conspiracy" ended and the "archeologists' conspiracy began!"), It happened in the region of ... the southern Russian steppes! The very word "horse" Eastern Slavs borrowed from the Turks, which sounded like "alosh". Both of them closely adjoined each other just in this region, so that the interpenetration of cultures took place, of course. But the words "horse", "mare", "stallion" are considered to be words of purely Slavic origin, their roots go back to the ancient Indo-European proto-language.


Among the soldiers of the terracotta army in the tomb of Emperor Qin Shi Huang there was such a chariot drawn by four horses.

In Italian, horse is caval, hence cavalier, cavalry; in Spanish - cabal, therefore - caballero, in French - cheval, hence chevalier, that is, horseman, cavalryman. Therefore, when Cardinal Richelieu in “The Three Musketeers” A. Dumas addresses D'Artagnan: “Chevalier D'Artagnan!”, The literal translation should have read: “The Horseman D'Artagnan!” But in Arabic the horse is called “headlight” ", Respectively, the art of riding was called" Furusiya ", but they also called their knights Faris, that is, horsemen!


Very early on they met horses and Arabs. This is an illustration from the Universal History of Jami al-Tawarih, 1305 - 1314. The Prophet Mohammed exhorts his family before the Battle of Badr and they are all on horseback. (Collections Khalili, Tabriz, Iran)

To be continued ...
Author:
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  1. igordok
    igordok 17 July 2017 06: 51
    +6
    And let's raise the topic of the lack of roads in Ancient Russia. Travels were only on the rivers. Maybe the lack of roads was due to the lack of horses. laughing
    Some time ago there was such a commentator on VO (or maybe he stayed). I don’t remember Nick.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 17 July 2017 12: 54
      +4
      The Slavs used horses from ancient times. This is evidenced by archaeological finds and written sources of both Old Russian and foreign origin. Painted miniatures that adorned the old Russian chronicles and wall murals in numerous churches built after the adoption of Christianity in Russia reached us.
      Among these drawings came across images of workers and riding horses. Horses in the territory occupied by ancient Slavic tribes were also found in the wild. They were stunted, forest type, and Russian princes often amused themselves by hunting for them.
      Vladimir Monomakh (1053 - 1125), then the specific prince of Chernigov, was especially proud of his luck in hunting wild horses: “But what I did in Chernigov,” wrote the prince, recalling his youth, “I knitted wild horses with my own hands in the forests - ten and twenty alive horses, and besides, he drove along the plain, caught with his own hands the same wild horses ... ”
      1. ando_bor
        ando_bor 17 July 2017 15: 29
        +3
        Even in the Upper Paleolithic (ice age) on the Don during the excavation of the upper layers of camps of different ages in Kostenki, it became clear that the main source of food was not mammoths but horses, they were stuffed at the crossing during seasonal migrations, piled in pits, and fed throughout the long ice winter, in the summer they roamed a river, - mollusks, fish, and so on up to the present, - a river, fish, horse - the basis of the Cossacks, with all the vicissitudes - the domestication of a horse, the emergence of agriculture. River valleys - the native landscape of the Slavs.
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 18 July 2017 01: 12
          +3
          Quote: ando_bor
          Still in the Upper Paleolithic (ice age) on the Don during excavations of the upper layers of sites of different ages in Kostenki it became clear that the basis of the food was not mammoths but horses, they were stuffed at the crossing during seasonal migrations, put into pits and ate during the whole long ice winter, in the summer they roamed the river - mollusks, fish, and so on up to the present, - river, fish, horse - the basis of the Cossacks, with all the vicissitudes - the domestication of the horse, the emergence of agriculture. River valleys - the native landscape of the Slavs.

          Paragraph! Lord, well, how many people in the world are on the head ...! Do not consider it work, please explain what is the relationship between Cossacks и Bonesexcept geography, of course! Have you ever been told that “after” does not mean “due to”, but “in the same place” (geographically), does not mean “the same” (people, tribe, culture)? But to guess that the living conditions and the way of survival, in the Paleolithic (Kostenki) and in the Middle Ages (if you count Brodnik, for protokazaks), are these two big differences, in general, not fate?
    2. IV19S
      IV19S 17 July 2017 17: 23
      +6
      The author is generally inadequate, or was drunk when he wrote the article, or another victim of EG.
      He doesn’t even know or remember how from school the rules for writing an essay ..

      Title ..
      “They had no choice!” Horse in battles and campaigns


      1. Who had no choice? The article is not a word...

      2. On the same Internet I’m asking a question: “How many people in Russia need urgent psychiatric help?”
      ............. B.L. I am very suitable for the title of the article about war horses, does the afftor accidentally confuse it with COMBIN PROTEINS? laughing belay laughing
      However, this came in handy. Just as an indicator that with brain activity we have not everything and not everyone is okay. But here is the story of the horse...


      However, this came in handy... laughing ..But here is the story of the horse... laughing .... afftor you that smoke?

      3.
      So horse and war. A horse and a man in war ...

      afftor would seem to strain the thought well now write,
      through the paragraph again OSTAPA SUFFERED ..
      However, if there is a “conspiracy of watchmakers”, a “Jewish-Masonic conspiracy” and even a “conspiracy of professional historians”, why not a “conspiracy of paleontologists”? All around are “conspirators,” how interesting, and maybe scary, to live, right?

      author I am ALREADY SCARY WHERE A HORSE?

      4. Paleontology, the origin of the horse ....... there are no comments at all, a powerful scientific work is given.

      The English writer Jean M. Awell described her version of this event in one of the books of her series of novels, Children of the Earth, which is called Valley of the Horses. Alone in a cave on the edge of the inhabited world, a girl from the Cro-Magnon tribe sheltered a small horse and raised it. In total, the series includes as many as six multi-page novels: “The Cave Bear Clan”, “Valley of the Horses”, “Mammoth Hunters”, “Mammoth Hearth”, “The Path Through the Plain” and “Under the Protection of the Stone”.


      6. I could not read further I was really scared, I turned over the article to the end without reading, after the words to be continued ... I thought maybe I should drink it too?
      1. Cat
        Cat 17 July 2017 17: 59
        +8
        There is no team of Oparyshev at you! He would quickly admonish you that there are only American horses! No, not a single horse-drawn straight until the 18th century.
        Before that, our ancestors only ran with boats under their armpits.
        So that common sense is not the topic of fault. Most of us just have a fuss! For God's sake do not interfere!
        Regards Kotische.
        1. IV19S
          IV19S 17 July 2017 18: 14
          +8
          a reference to the English writer Gene M. Auel, it’s like a comedy Club to see if Dontsov, Marinin and others would have come as serious historians and unique paleontologists ...
          Sorry could not resist feel
          1. kalibr
            17 July 2017 19: 03
            0
            And why is it that such bad comments come from Ukraine? One Kyrios reads and understands everything as it should. And the rest ... as if they had something with everyone's heads. I think everyone has already noticed this ...
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 18 July 2017 19: 06
              +1
              Are you sure that Victor is from Ukraine?
            2. The comment was deleted.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. bandabas
          bandabas 17 July 2017 19: 51
          +2
          The manager is a man’s friend!
      2. kalibr
        17 July 2017 19: 06
        0
        And do not read such articles. Obviously not according to your intellect. However, it is clear why this is so ... As they say: "tell me where you are from and I will tell you who you are!"
        1. IV19S
          IV19S 20 July 2017 11: 48
          +1
          As the saying goes: "tell me where you are from and I will tell you who you are!"


          Listen finely gauge, do not disgrace, here’s the intellectual. Let’s encore, definition, and what kind of crap is this intelligence?

          Let's not be shy
          WHAT IS INTELLIGENCE.

          Zhdum.ssss with impatience.
      3. Setrac
        Setrac 18 July 2017 00: 01
        +3
        Quote: IV19S
        1. Who had no choice? The article is not a word ...

        Apparently there was no choice ... the horses!
        1. kalibr
          18 July 2017 11: 01
          0
          You understood this, because you have a flag ... But a person has a different flag, therefore he did not understand. There, in general, many do not understand much for some reason. I wonder why?
          1. IV19S
            IV19S 20 July 2017 11: 59
            +1
            Setrac July 18, 2017 00:01 ↑ New
            Quote: IV19S
            1. Who had no choice? The article is not a word ...
            Apparently there was no choice ... the horses!
            kalibr July 18, 2017 11:01 ↑ New
            You understood this, because you have a flag ... But a person has a different flag, therefore he did not understand. There, in general, many do not understand much for some reason. I wonder why?



            purus idiota;

        2. IV19S
          IV19S 20 July 2017 11: 41
          +1
          poor ... poor ... poor horses good
          sorry no emoticon sobbing man.
          And the horses themselves And cry.


          and laugh.


          And one threatened EVEN to complain
          A. Nevzorov.
    3. buzzilio
      buzzilio 18 July 2017 23: 26
      +1
      Moving along the rivers due to the low carrying capacity of the horse)
      On the horse itself, you can take 100-200 kg of cargo. At the same time, it must be fed and rested.
      You won’t take much away on the cart either. Especially if the cart is without normal suspension and bearings. Moreover, in the conditions of "not expensive, but directions")
      And on the boat I loaded barrels with bags, 5-7 tons and sail yourself)
    4. urman
      urman 24 October 2017 20: 15
      0
      Not Olegovich?
  2. moskowit
    moskowit 17 July 2017 07: 01
    +2
    The history of domestication and domestication of a horse is very interesting. In a compressed and accelerated form, this was repeated in America, when the Indians (though they had an example) began to use mustangs ... Comparison, of course, with a stretch, but nonetheless ....
  3. Molot1979
    Molot1979 17 July 2017 07: 31
    +5
    And what the hell did the Slavs need to borrow a “horse” from the Turkic languages, if they, like the Indo-Europeans, had been familiar with it from the deep millennium BC? Or were they so stupid that they did not know how to name these animals in general, and sat waiting for the Türks to tell them that these, with four hooves, are “alosh”? Again, this is Fasmerism, according to which the Slavs have not a single word at all, only borrowings.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 17 July 2017 08: 58
      +5
      And Slavic is precisely the "horse", and in other Slavic languages ​​it will be so. In Tatar, it’s true, which is like a Turkic "yort", in Turkish "at". At the same time, in almost any noticeable language there is a word.

      "Money" is a Turkic word, but the concept of money in one sense or another was in Russia long before the Turks.
      1. Denis222
        Denis222 20 July 2017 00: 10
        +1
        In the Tatar horse "at" and not yort. Yort is the house. I know the language
    2. kalibr
      17 July 2017 08: 59
      +3
      I would be grateful if you give at least some source that would refute this. And the Slavs have many words of their own; no one belittles them. There was the word “horse.” But the words are not borrowed just because they are not there, but with the new word it is easier to communicate with other people, foreigners. That the British didn’t have vodka? It was, but it was called differently. is not it, and this word was borrowed - to emphasize that this is "rushn". What about the satellite? He is a satellite! But borrowed the "satellite", again to emphasize the origin. There are many such examples.
      1. Curious
        Curious 17 July 2017 16: 53
        +4
        The British did not have vodka. Under no names.
    3. Curious
      Curious 17 July 2017 10: 03
      +5
      In no Slavic language, except for Russian, the word horse is not. In all this animal is called a horse. But the Magyars have "lo '". Given the antiquity and constancy of contacts with the Turks, there is nothing exceptional or improbable in the fact that this word appeared in Russian.
      The words “horse”, “mare” and “stallion” are of truly Slavic origin and are found in the languages ​​of all Slavic peoples, and their roots are directed to the Indo-European proto-language.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 17 July 2017 12: 59
        +3
        Old Russian chronicles recorded the number of horses in different princes. For example, in the Ipatiev Chronicle, under 1146, there is a record of a herd belonging to the family of Svyatoslav, it counted “3000 herd of mares and 1000 horses.” And I think that this was not the whole horse stock of the princes of this family. good
      2. Molot1979
        Molot1979 19 July 2017 09: 39
        0
        If anything, then Hungarian is the language of the Finno-Ugric group, not Turkic. So their "lo" is obtained, also borrowing.
    4. mar4047083
      mar4047083 17 July 2017 10: 26
      +2
      And what the hell, now borrowed words from English, if we are familiar with many concepts and there are Russian counterparts. Or are we completely stupid, sitting and waiting for the West to be prompted by a cleaner - a cleaning manager.
      1. kalibr
        17 July 2017 12: 05
        +1
        I want to join the ... rich!
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 17 July 2017 12: 44
        +2
        Often a literal translation from English will be stupid, like the same "football" - "football", or the definition is borrowed. narrow meaning.
    5. burigaz2010
      burigaz2010 17 July 2017 11: 17
      +2
      Quote: Molot1979
      And what the hell did the Slavs need to borrow a “horse” from the Turkic languages, if they, like the Indo-Europeans, had been familiar with it from the deep millennium BC? Or were they so stupid that they did not know how to name these animals in general, and sat waiting for the Türks to tell them that these, with four hooves, are “alosh”? Again, this is Fasmerism, according to which the Slavs have not a single word at all, only borrowings.

      Read Shpakovsky, you will find out that the Slavs borrowed everything at all !!! How did the riddle go to the toilet themselves? Oh, come on from the east, the bum has pinned up and taught our felt boots !!!!
      1. kalibr
        17 July 2017 11: 56
        +2
        Did you read the text yourself? Or are you more interested in retelling the comments of third parties?
  4. Korsar4
    Korsar4 17 July 2017 07: 58
    +3
    St. Christopher is just with the head of a dog. In the history of domestication, Kipling comes up with the "Cat That Walked On Its Own" first.

    In general, an excellent selection, and wonderful illustrations.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 17 July 2017 08: 47
      +3
      Some kind of strange dog.

      Kipling wrote from the standpoint of Victorian England, where a woman was given the organizing role, unlike a man who always disappears and runs amok somewhere.
      1. Dym71
        Dym71 17 July 2017 13: 48
        +2
        Quote: EvilLion
        Some kind of strange dog.

        St. Christopher Pseglavets

        http://ikona-i-molitva.info/svyatoj-xristofor-pse
        glavec-zhitie-ikona-molitva /
  5. Olgovich
    Olgovich 17 July 2017 08: 12
    +4
    Violations mental activities

    Just as an indication that with cerebral activity, we do not have everything and not everyone


    Unsuccessful juxtaposition of concepts: most geniuses, i.e. people with outstanding brain activity, to put it mildly, had ps mental disorders.

    about horses, interesting.
  6. hohol95
    hohol95 17 July 2017 08: 20
    +4
    So the venerable Ayla was ahead of the heroes of this work with a spear thrower?
    1. kalibr
      17 July 2017 08: 54
      +2
      Apparently not. Roni does not yet have a glacier, and Ayla lives in an era when the glacier retreats. That is, she is closer to us. Mammoth hunters, to whom she finds herself, are able to build dwellings from ribs and tombs of mammoths (and the remains of them were found), and Nao's relatives did not know how, like the people of Ba.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 17 July 2017 09: 11
        +3
        But the lance-thrower (or the ancestor of the sling) they already had good
        With a deft movement, Nao grabbed the strange weapon he learned from wah and began to quickly rotate it over his head. Rook, convinced that this was a simple threat, ignored her, continuing to pace beneath the rock. He even turned his back on Nao and therefore did not notice the dart. Another moment - and his hand was pierced between the thumb and forefinger. With a fierce cry, he dropped his club. Shaggy brothers were astounded. They did not understand how Nao could throw a dart at such a great distance.
  7. parusnik
    parusnik 17 July 2017 08: 21
    +3
    Vyacheslav, "all-lying" laughing , they wrote right now, horses were brought from America laughing , archeology of pseudoscience, all archaeological finds are "remake" and fakes .. laughing ..
    An excellent article, magnificent illustrations for it .. An article on the "expansion" of animals and plants from Europe to America would be interesting .. What and whom the Europeans brought to America during colonization ...
    1. kalibr
      17 July 2017 08: 51
      +1
      Thanks! But an article about animal and plant migrants should be written by a zoologist.
  8. EvilLion
    EvilLion 17 July 2017 08: 41
    +1
    It is characteristic that on all artifacts of antiquity, in fact, ponies are depicted. Traction monsters per tonne of weight and real cavalry horses still had to be deduced, as well as learning how to produce so much food to feed them.
    1. kalibr
      17 July 2017 08: 50
      +1
      Yes, and you will see how the riders' legs hang down ... almost to the ground.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 18 July 2017 19: 37
        0
        I already wrote in one of the comments on your articles about Egypt. Why did the Egyptians not have cavalry? Yes, the horses were small, could pull, carry - no.
        1. tanit
          tanit 19 July 2017 11: 21
          0

          Not so small, sort of.
  9. kalibr
    17 July 2017 08: 49
    +3
    Quote: Korsar4
    St. Christopher is just with the head of a dog. In the history of domestication, Kipling comes up with the "Cat That Walked On Its Own" first.
    In general, an excellent selection, and wonderful illustrations.

    "The Sviyazh icon-painting tradition depicts Christopher not with a dog, but with a horse's head [16]" taken from here.
    1. ruskih
      ruskih 17 July 2017 10: 50
      +4
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the next interesting article and photos. And the image of St. Christopher is really ambiguous and was interpreted by icon-painting traditions in different ways, perhaps sometimes to please the political necessities of the time when he was portrayed and corresponded.
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 17 July 2017 14: 03
        +4
        the image itself, however, is interesting ..
        1. ruskih
          ruskih 17 July 2017 14: 56
          +3
          the image itself, however, is interesting ..

          It is interesting that they began to depict this saint with a head similar to a horse exactly at the time of the conquest of the Kazan Khanate by Ivan the Terrible.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 17 July 2017 15: 11
            +3
            The hottest topic. For Ivan the Terrible. If you dig a little deeper - the greatest topic for the article, and even the buhurt will be provided. good
            1. ruskih
              ruskih 17 July 2017 15: 35
              +2
              Yes yes , during the life of Ivan the Terrible, the icons of Christopher - a warrior with a horse, a wolf's head were in many churches throughout the Moscow kingdom.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 17 July 2017 15: 39
                +4
                oh, this only adds value to the topic. fellow Can you imagine how much you can dig there? and what is food for fragile minds? laughing
  10. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 17 July 2017 11: 11
    +4
    Shpakovsky I do not care where the horses came from. But as for mental illness in Russia, as I understand it, you do not consider yourself to be citizens of the Russian Federation? It’s all around some psychos, one Shpakovsky all in white !!!!
    1. kalibr
      17 July 2017 11: 57
      +1
      Not all, of course, but some are clearly a bit ... of that! Do not tell me exactly who? And let the question in turn - are you specifically dissatisfied with something or is this your mood, well, let's say from the heat? And about diseases ... there is Google - you type and you will learn much more than what is written here. Although there are specific examples ... At the very beginning. You saw?
    2. mar4047083
      mar4047083 17 July 2017 12: 02
      +3
      Excuse me, have you started the exacerbation? Consult Curious, he will redirect you to a site where they can provide the necessary assistance.
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 17 July 2017 14: 09
        +5
        Marat, I, of course, am not a psychiatrist, but I recommend the following to an excited gentleman (he dug up his old compendium):
        "SOOTHING BREATHE." In the initial position, standing or sitting, you need to take a full breath. Then, holding your breath, imagine a circle and slowly exhale into it. This technique should be repeated four times. After that, inhale again, imagine the triangle and exhale into it three times. Then, in the same way, exhale twice in a square. After performing these procedures, calming sets in.
        By the way, I recommend it to everyone! drinks
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 18 July 2017 02: 10
          +2
          Quote: Mikado
          "SOOTHING BREATHE." In the initial position, standing or sitting, you need to take a full breath. Then, holding your breath, imagine a circle and slowly exhale into it. This technique should be repeated four times. After that, inhale again, imagine the triangle and exhale into it three times. Then, in the same way, exhale twice in a square. After performing these procedures, calming sets in.
          By the way, I recommend it to everyone!

          You are careful with the tips. “Do not show the old woman a short road if she leads through a ravine” (c) (I don’t remember where he came from!)
          Quote: Mikado
          In the initial position, standing or sitting, you need to take a full breath. Then, holding my breath ...,
          The whole problem of modern people is that the majority, as usual, breathes “upper”, “female” breathing and “full” breath, for them it is to inhale from the solar plexus, up, and .... all the way! Imagine !? Well, do they breathe enough and what will happen to them, as a result?
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 18 July 2017 09: 41
            +2
            drinks when I wrote this compendium in the absence of the “Internet” in the early 2000s according to a service manual, there was no division into “female” and “male” breathing, alas. If necessary, I still dig up something on my notes drinks
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 18 July 2017 19: 46
          +4
          -Doctor, when I, with my back bent, with bent arms, begin to lift my legs in turns, I feel severe pain in the lumbar region ...
          - Why are you doing such difficult exercises?
          -?!?!? Doctor, do you put on your pants somehow differently ???
      2. Mikado
        Mikado 17 July 2017 16: 21
        +3
        Consult Curious, he will redirect you to a site where they can provide the necessary assistance.

        yeah, he will send .. stop I know this fanatic! good Either he’ll straighten his brains by himself, or turn it inside out, or prescribe it, after which he will only have to nervously smoke and shake in the corner laughing drinks there’s not enough Good Doctor, he’d also advise him not to, for example, "creative work and the bamboo stick of the Good Monk... ", well, hereinafter winked
  11. Avenich
    Avenich 17 July 2017 11: 17
    +1
    Of ignorance you, of course, said it well. But by the way about horses: The word "king" comes from the Norman "könig", and "könig" from the Russian "horse", i.e. rider. You say ignorantly, but it was written in the textbook “History of the Middle Ages”.
    Further, I took these photos in 2013 in Athens on the Acropolis.
    Pay attention to the horse figures in the corners of the pediment. Question by an expert, here, in theory, there should be a gong, what these architectural elements mean and how they got there.
    1. kalibr
      17 July 2017 11: 59
      +2
      Lucky you! But it is necessary to ask the "Greeks". I’m so "I won’t lie." It is necessary to search for information ...
    2. Curious
      Curious 17 July 2017 13: 44
      +5
      Honestly, I did not understand your difficulties.
      Let us turn to the book of the specialist in ancient art, the art of Ancient Rome, Professor Gleb Ivanovich Sokolov "Acropolis in Athens. M.," Enlightenment ", 1968".
      The book contains a detailed description of the eastern pediment of the Parthenon, which you photographed.
      Further I will break the commentary, since more than one illustration does not open.
      1. Curious
        Curious 17 July 2017 13: 53
        +5

        Eastern pediment of the Parthenon. A sketch of the artist Carrey.
        For reference. Jacques Carrey (French Jacques Carrey, January 12, 1649, Troyes - February 18, 1726, Troyes) - French artist, known exclusively for his sketches of sculptures of the Parthenon in 1674
        On the eastern pediment, mainly, since the entrance to the Parthenon was from the east, a great event for the Hellenes was presented - the birth of Athena. This plot is all-Hellenic, more significant than the dispute between Athens and Poseidon, depicted on the western pediment .. In the center are the gods on Olympus, in the corners are no longer the Athenian rivers Kefis and Ilis, but the sun god Helios and the night goddess Nyuks in the waters of the Ocean. On the left, Helios rode out in a chariot, on the right, night — Nyuks was hiding in the Ocean with her horse. With the birth of Athena, the Hellenes began a sunny day and ended the night.
        Left side - Helios riding a chariot. Quadriga would clutter the corner, and the sculptor confined himself to the image of two horse muzzles protruding from the waters of the Ocean. In the plastic of marble sculptures, in the beautiful lines of the proud bend of horse necks, in the majestic inclination of the heads of horses, as in a poetic metaphor, feelings from the contemplation of a solemnly and smoothly rising star are embodied.
        1. Curious
          Curious 17 July 2017 14: 02
          +5

          Eastern pediment of the Parthenon. Koni Helios.

          The half-figure of the night goddess Nyuks and the head of her horse, immersed in the waters of the Ocean, correspond to the head of Helios and his horses on the right. The muzzle of the horse is shown with a lip hanging over the lower border of the pediment. She seemed to snore from fatigue and hurried to the cool water. Goethe admired her, saying that the horse is depicted as it came from the hands of nature itself.

          Eastern pediment of the Parthenon. Horse Nux. Marble. London. British museum. Marble. London. British museum.
          As you understand, the sculptures on the pediment are copies. the originals make up the exposition of the British Museum.
          Full description of the sculptural compositions of the Parthenon http://www.sno.pro1.ru/lib/sokolov_akropol_v_afin
          akh / 5.htm
        2. Avenich
          Avenich 17 July 2017 14: 23
          +2
          Thank you for the book. But I never presented a complete picture, especially since most of the sculptures of the eastern pediment are located at the Saxons. And the protruding elements of the sculptures, in my unbiased opinion, are cool for classicism. Either the eastern pediment took shape relatively recently (500-600 years ago), or ... I hope that the author will find a little time and give me some food for thought.
          1. Curious
            Curious 17 July 2017 19: 11
            +2

            This is a reconstruction from the Parthenon Museum.
            I did not understand about classicism, the direction in European culture of the XVII — XIX centuries.
            1. Avenich
              Avenich 17 July 2017 20: 30
              +1
              Perhaps incorrectly applied the term. I had in mind classicism in relation to the dawn of ancient Greek culture. I just do not remember the outstanding (in the sense of overhanging) sculptural images in this culture. Gargoyles, they seemed to have appeared later. Of course, thank you for explaining to me what the Parthenon might have looked like, or you didn’t know how you could understand what the horse heads do in the corners of the pediment. Moreover, it looks as if they were pushed there.
              1. Curious
                Curious 17 July 2017 21: 07
                +1
                To your health!
    3. andj61
      andj61 17 July 2017 16: 07
      +1
      Actually, the word "Koenig" comes from the word "Konung", and the word "king" - from the name "Karl". After Charlemagne became a household word, like the word "Caesar" in due time. But for some reason in this form it is used only among the Slavs, and in the west there are all sorts of könig, rhei, rua, king, etc. hi
    4. Weyland
      Weyland 18 July 2017 19: 48
      0
      Quote: Avenich
      The word "king" comes from the Norman "könig", and "könig" from the Russian "horse", i.e. rider.

      The title "king" comes from the name Karl - as the title "Caesar" - from the cognomen Caesar. A "könig" does not come from "horsemen", but originally meant "head of the clan"!
  12. kalibr
    17 July 2017 12: 00
    +1
    Quote: Avenich
    You say ignorantly, but it was written in the textbook “History of the Middle Ages”.

    I wonder who the author of it is and for what year!
  13. The comment was deleted.
    1. kalibr
      17 July 2017 13: 23
      +2
      The fact is that I was just in this temple in Sviyazhsk and this is my photo. In Soviet times, there was a psychiatric hospital (!) And the headboards of the beds all down at the frescoes were beaten to lime. I don’t know how now ... But on the other hand, the frescoes have not been restored since the moment of writing. So in the photo is the letter of 1556 of the year or so!
      He told me about all this ... the local "someone in black" and about his head. And I wrote word for word. It was necessary to check, but I hoped that their "people in black" know something by heart. Alas, I was mistaken. Now I’ve already looked on the Web - there are a lot of interpretations and “ambiguities”. So let the article be “horse”. It will work if I give it to the book then "ambiguities" and "different opinions." Thanks for the help!
      1. Curious
        Curious 17 July 2017 14: 40
        +4
        With the holy martyr Christopher Pieseglavets or Kinokefal, a serious oversight came out.
        Among other Orthodox saints, the martyr Christopher stands out as an unusual attribute attributed to him by tradition. It was believed that, being the body as a person, he had the head of a dog. According to one legend, Christopher had a dog’s head from birth, since he came from a country of filmocephals - people with dog heads. The Canaanites were sometimes identified with film-cephals, since the consonant word "caninei" comes from the Latin canis - dog. When the future saint was baptized, he acquired a human form. According to another, rather late, legend, which became widespread in Cyprus, the saint from birth had a beautiful appearance, which women were seduced by. Desiring to avoid temptations, he prayed that the Lord would give him an ugly appearance, after which he became like a dog.
        The Constantinople Synaxarium states that the dog-headed appearance of the saint and his origin from the country of cinema and anthropophages (cannibals) should be understood symbolically as a state of rudeness and ferocity during his stay as a pagan. The Reverend Nicodemus the Holy Mountaineer does not say anything about the beast-like appearance of Christopher in the Synaxary, it is only reported that he had an ugly face.
        In the Western Christian iconography of the saint, whose name literally translates as “Christ bearer”, they depict a giant carrying the Infant Christ on his shoulders.
        in later Russian monuments the saint is depicted not with a dog’s head, but with a head more like a horse’s. The shape of the skull changes somewhat, becomes more rounded, the canine jaws, which once appeared pointed, open or bared, change to a more good-natured horse's face. An example is the icon of the late XNUMXth century from the State Museum of the History of Religion, where Christ blesses a saint with a horse's head, depicted against a landscape in multicolored armor, with a cross and a spear in his hands. The collection of the Historical Museum has an iconic shed of the XNUMXth century - an example for icon painters, on which St. Christopher is also shown with a head similar to a horse.
        No convincing explanation for this is given by either scientists. nor churchmen.
        (Vladimir V., priest. Animals in church painting, E. Snigirev. Image of St. Christopher: Traditions and reality // Problems of the formation and study of the museum collection of the State Museum of the History of Religion. L., 1990.)
        So in any case, this case has a dubious relationship to horses.
        In more detail HOLY TORTURE CHRISTOPHOR PESEHLAVETS: ICONOGRAPHY AND ADMINISTRATION - http://www.pravoslavie.ru/put/070522120099.htm
        1. kalibr
          17 July 2017 15: 17
          +2
          The Sviyazh school of icon painting depicted him with the head of a horse, dear Victor, and the photo of the mural was from there, from Sviyazhsk. Well, I can’t know the physiognomy of all the saints in all the details.
          1. ruskih
            ruskih 17 July 2017 17: 09
            +2
            If I’m not mistaken, this is one of the three surviving frescoes, the main thing is that after restoration it should not be “improved” or rewritten. So your photo is very good.
            1. kalibr
              17 July 2017 20: 50
              +2
              Yes, one out of three. I took off two, because then, unfortunately, I was only interested in armor. And the angle was the best only in two ...
  14. Avenich
    Avenich 17 July 2017 13: 45
    0
    Quote: kalibr

    I wonder who the author of it is and for what year!

    Good question. Year that way 1972-1975. Cover, found on the Internet, picture: agricultural work is going on against the background of the castle. Authors: Agibalova, Donskoy. I looked at the 2012 edition, paragraph 3, chapter 1, page 27, there is a version of the origin of the "king", but it is completely different.
    1. kalibr
      17 July 2017 15: 19
      +1
      That's exactly it, otherwise I know these textbooks well. It should not be like that. At least in those publications that I have not met.
      1. Avenich
        Avenich 17 July 2017 20: 16
        0
        Since I was in grade 5, almost half a century has passed. But something like this is not paradoxically sunk. Here is another example in the atlas on natural history for the 4th grade (or 3?) Where the races were depicted, the Russian was depicted as a typical Mongoloid. So with the king, the same story. No one believes.
  15. Yura
    Yura 17 July 2017 13: 45
    +3
    Vyacheslav, great article! Reading other opuses in the sense of comments here on the site sometimes you don’t even know how to react, but also perceive, so down-stream ignorance with the filing for the truth, so unlimited aplomb in the certainty of being right. Although you can discover history lessons here on the site, people here are all adults, and even a small number of them with an inadequate perception of history and even trivial, mundane, well-known facts cannot be taught or convinced by anything, they probably have water in their bodies and especially in their heads surplus.
    1. kalibr
      17 July 2017 16: 27
      +2
      I, too, am surprised at this, but most of all, the fact that people do not know how to read! They read their thoughts in someone else's text, instead of just showing attention. Well and then - the question arose - ask. Type Google in the end. And yet ... for some reason, many all the time they suspect you of lying ... they don’t understand whether they should lie to me, well, it didn’t fall at all. They are not the people who, to lie to them, have at least something, you won’t even have moral satisfaction from this. And the question is ... maybe they themselves ... all the time it's the same, because they suspect others of this too? And as for the lessons, this must be considered. Maybe not only history, but cultural studies, since this is a synthesis of scientific knowledge about a person and his history and culture.
  16. Curious
    Curious 17 July 2017 14: 49
    +3
    "In any case, the horse was domesticated and - judging by the burials with the horse (this is already the" plot of the paleontologists "has ended and the" conspiracy of archaeologists "has begun!), It happened in the region ... of the South Russian steppes!"
    A couple of years ago, modern zoologists and genetics joined this conspiracy. True, they were not powerful Klesovites but ordinary scientists from ordinary Cambridge University. They published their research in the modest journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
    The publication says that the ancestors of domestic horses lived on the territory of modern Eastern Ukraine, southwestern Russia and the steppe regions of the Caspian region. It was from these territories that animals then spread throughout Europe and Asia, and then around the world.

    Here is what Dr. Vera Warmuth of the Faculty of Zoology of the University of Cambridge states: “The distribution of domestic horses differs from the distribution of many other types of domestic animals in that their flocks were replenished by local wild horses on an unprecedented scale. And replenishment took place mainly due to wild mares, which explains the large number of female lines in the gene pool of all horses, and domesticated horses for the first time in the west of the Eurasian steppes. "
    The issue of belonging of the first horses to the Aryans was not discussed.
    1. kalibr
      17 July 2017 15: 24
      +3
      There will be the 2 part soon, there even so any paleogenetics here will be woven for the sake of the Aryan past of primitive horse breeders. To the Patsaki rejoiced! Yes, IT happened on the territory of Russia, and even earlier and in general - the USSR, yes, our great-great-great-great did THIS, and then everyone else took advantage, as always! Let there be less pensions than in the USA, and so on, but our Gagarin and the first horse, which was domesticated by a man with the R1a group. Cool? And then !!!
      1. mar4047083
        mar4047083 17 July 2017 15: 30
        +3
        They forgot about the first elephants.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 18 July 2017 20: 07
        0
        Moreover, the Oryol trotter will be the first horse on the moon !!! Well, Rogozin promised a hospital ...
    2. mar4047083
      mar4047083 17 July 2017 15: 29
      +3
      This is because they did not read the syntheses of our friend Duke of Peace. By evening, we will hear him.
      1. Cat
        Cat 17 July 2017 18: 12
        +6
        Where is Oparyshev?
        I read the article and comments! Sincerely thanks!
        1. mar4047083
          mar4047083 17 July 2017 19: 05
          +6
          Either the world establishes, or buries the remains of donkeys on the battlefields. In a word, busy. Do not remember in vain, may not hear.
  17. Operator
    Operator 17 July 2017 19: 54
    0
    Damn, well, when will it be possible to read an objective historical article on VO that differs in the elaboration of the issue?

    The horse was domesticated in the Balkans in the 4 millennium BC. - there in the graves there were found ceramic models (children’s toys) of four-wheeled carts drawn by a pair of horses with cart drivers. It is believed that at the same time the wheel was invented as a mover.

    Therefore, at first the horse was used as a draft force.

    The haplogroup of people buried along with the cart models is defined as R1a, i.e. The inventors of the wheel and horse-drawn vehicles are the arias that came to the Balkans from Altai in the 8 millennium BC.

    In the Aryan mounds of the third millennium BC, located north of the Balkans in the Black Sea steppes, traces of full-sized biaxial carts - war chariots were found: characteristic arched dents in the ground in place of rotten wooden wheels, metal fastenings of rotten leather harness, etc.

    From the Black Sea steppes, the Aryans spread to the south (Asia Minor), east (Central Asia, Iran, India and China) and the west (present-day Austria), where they introduced the locals to chariots and domestic horses. Assimilated by the Aryans, Asia Minor Hyksos invaded Egypt, seized power there and introduced the Egyptians to this type of transport and weapons.

    In the second millennium BC in Central Asia, horseback riding was invented without the use of stirrups. Central Asians - Scythians and Sarmatians, previously assimilated by the Aryans, invaded Europe and Asia Minor on horseback, introducing Europeans and Asia Minors to this method of using horses.

    At the end of the first millennium BC stirrups were invented in Central Asia, after which Turkic-speaking Central Asian tribes led by the Huns invaded Europe, introducing the locals to this progressive solution.

    What happened after is known from school history textbooks.

    For a long time, the horse used by the Slavs (descendants of the Aryans remaining in Europe) was just a draft force for dragging and dropping odnoderevki boats in the convergence of rivers flowing in different directions (the main mode of transport was water in connection with dense forests and a developed river network on most of the Central Russian Plain).
    As horse-drawn transport and for riding, the horse among the Slavs began to be used only in the second half of the first millennium A.D. after the start of their development of the so-called Wild Field - South Russian steppes.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 17 July 2017 20: 39
      +1
      One can only guess when exactly people began to domesticate the horse. The traditions of horse breeding hide their roots in immense centuries. Most scientists suggest that domestication of a horse began in Eurasia, according to some sources, 6 millennia ago.

      At that time, on the expanses of this vast continent, small steppe horses with wide foreheads were running, which somewhat resembled modern tarps. These wild horses were still encountered even in the XNUMXth century, until they were finally destroyed. Of the other representatives of the horse family in ancient times, there were large horses that lived mainly in forests. They were similar to modern ones: firstly, with a narrow and long facial part of the head, and secondly, with slender and thin legs.

      Probably, it was they who were domesticated first and for a long time retained a striking resemblance to their wild ancestors. However, man wanted to improve his first friend and assistant in the household, and the peoples of the Ancient East, in whose life horses played a crucial role, succeeded first of all. There is information that in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries BC in the Persian kingdom, the best Nesean horses of the world were bred at that time. Equally successful were the horse breeders who lived near the Caspian Sea, in the southern regions of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.
      Already at the end of the XNUMXst millennium BC, the glory of Nesei horses remained in the distant past, and the horses of the Parthian kingdom, which existed on the site of the modern northern regions of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan (then Persia and Bactria), won the championship. Horses, which were bred in the north of Iran and Afghanistan, were famous for their qualities.
      What did the Parthian horses look like? For that time they were considered quite high - almost 150 cm at the withers. Red and golden, slender and graceful, they were the most coveted prey in a military campaign and the most precious gift for any sovereign.
      Horse breeding also flourished in the regions of Transcaucasia, in the ancient territory of the highlands, where Armenia is now located. It is known that horses were used there for riding back in the 140rd millennium BC. If you look at the regions of Eastern Europe, then the horse breeders there were not so quick. In any case, the horses here did not differ in a special article. These were small animals, the height of which never exceeded 120 cm, but more often was XNUMX cm. And they were mainly used not for riding, but simply put on meat.
      1. Operator
        Operator 17 July 2017 21: 30
        0
        There is no need to assume anything - the very first material evidence of the use of a horse by man (models of harnessed carts) was found in the Balkans and dated to 5 by the millennium BC.

        All other unfounded arguments about the possibility of earlier domestication of a horse in other parts of Eurasia are nothing more than fortunetelling on coffee grounds. They will find other material evidence in another area of ​​our continent with a more ancient dating - there will be new historical dates and bindings, and until they find it - fortunetellers can go through the woods.

        As for the primacy in the invention of horseback riding (without the use of stirrups), it belongs exclusively to the Asian inhabitants of the Steppe belt of Eurasia of the second millennium BC. - Scythians, Sarmatians and Saks. They came from the indigenous inhabitants of the territories of future Kazakhstan, the states of Central Asia and Iran (Parthian kingdom).

        Mountain inhabitants Armenians not only have nothing to do with the invention of horse riding, but also did not exist as an ethnic group from the word in the third millennium BC. Then on the territory of the future Armenia lived the Sumerians and Assyrians, who at that time were not even aware of chariots, not to mention horse riding.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 17 July 2017 22: 39
          +1
          Horse breeding also flourished in the regions of Transcaucasia, in the ancient territory of the highlands, where is Armenia now located. Understandably, the Armenians did not exist then ...
          But as your words - lived the Sumerians and Assyrians, who at that time were not even aware of chariots, not to mention horse riding correlate with the STANDARD FROM Hurray?
          1. Operator
            Operator 17 July 2017 23: 15
            0
            The oldest Aryan clay figurines of four-wheeled horse-drawn carts found in the Balkans date back to the fourth millennium BC.

            Those. priority in the invention of wheels and horse-drawn vehicles remains with the arias.
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 17 July 2017 23: 53
              +2
              The priority of those who have not decayed or have not burned down over the past centuries - WAS THE SUMERS WERE NOT ALMONOUS AND "DECEMBERLESS"?
              1. Operator
                Operator 18 July 2017 00: 14
                0
                If the Sumerians were the first to domesticate the horse and invent the wheel, then they would conquer Iran and India, and not the Aryans.
          2. Weyland
            Weyland 18 July 2017 20: 03
            +1
            But what does horse breeding have to do with it? What is signed there under the drawing - "harnessed kulans battle carts! In fact, it was a mistake - they could not domesticate the kulan (Asian donkey), the mules were harnessed into the chariots - not those from a horse and donkey, but a cross between a kulan and a domestic donkey (of African origin) - they were also fruitless, and it was getting them difficult: such a mule in Sumer was valued 10 (!) times higher than a domestic donkey. When the Sumerians became acquainted with the horse (with the help of their sworn enemies - the Gutians), they began to call it the "mountain donkey".
            By the way, the Sumerian combat vehicles do not pull on full-fledged chariots due to the low speed. The reason is heavy solid wood wheels (which is also indicated in the signature to the figure). Arias Priority - Wheel Invention with knitting needles and light uniaxial chariots.
  18. kalibr
    17 July 2017 20: 46
    0
    Quote: Operator
    At the end of the first millennium BC stirrups were invented in Central Asia, after which Turkic-speaking Central Asian tribes led by the Huns invaded Europe, introducing the locals to this progressive solution.

    This is interesting from where? A link would be nice to a monograph of a recognized specialist ...
    1. Operator
      Operator 17 July 2017 21: 37
      0
      The oldest primitive stirrup dating to 302 year BC was found in modern China at the places of resettlement of the Hunnu tribe, the oldest full-fledged stirrup dating to 322 year BC is also found in the same places.
      1. kalibr
        17 July 2017 21: 52
        +1
        Yes, I read about it in the monograph of Christopher Pearce, and even it was in my article here, "K. Pearce on the military affairs of the Chinese" - somehow it was called. But why then write about the inventors of the stirrups of the Scythians and Sarmatians? There are recognized military experts in these cultures ...

        or here, for example:
        1. Operator
          Operator 17 July 2017 21: 56
          0
          You are inattentive - I said that the Iranian-speaking nomadic peoples of Central Asia invented horseback riding as such, and the stirrups invented the Turkic-speaking nomadic peoples of the north of modern China.

          K. Pearce "heard the ring but don’t know where he is": the discovery of the most ancient stirrups in the territory of modern China does not mean at all that the Chinese invented stirrups - in the 4 century A.D. China’s northern border was far south.
          1. kalibr
            17 July 2017 22: 12
            0
            Well, of course, who is Pierce, so, some Englishman ... where is he. And the figures of the khaniva are also from the evil one, right? We can talk about what we "know" only in relative terms. Based on finds and dating, no more. Therefore, what kind of "objective" knowledge can we talk about? Today, one thing is objective, tomorrow another.
            1. Operator
              Operator 17 July 2017 22: 27
              0
              And then the Japanese figures of the Haniva, dated to 200 years later than the most ancient stirrups found in the Hunnic graves?

              When they find more ancient stirrups in another area, then we'll talk, but for now this is an alternative story in its purest form.
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 17 July 2017 22: 32
        0
        “It can be assumed that the belt stirrup is depicted on the famous vase from Chertomlyk barrow (IV century BC). The use of such stirrup-loops in India in the II century BC is indicated by the image on a copper vase from Kulu Vali and on the relief of the gate from Sandshi. Written sources speak of the spread of belt stirrups among the Huns, Sarmatians, Scythians, Dacians, Alans, Goths, Persians, Gauls and Egyptians. Similar loops were used in China. Ethnographic materials indicate the use of rope stirrups with modern Kalmyks, Yakuts and Khakasses.
        III century materials provides Siberian archeology. Miniature iron models of stirrups from among random finds are widely known on the Middle Yenisei (Fig. 5). This is mainly stirrups with an eight-shaped completion, a type that later became widespread in the VI-X centuries. Their form is the simplest. It must be borne in mind that miniature images of things created for burials are not found in southern Siberia later than the Uybat stage of Tashtyk culture (XNUMXrd century). Later miniatures represent other types of stirrups. Thus, at present, the earliest stirrups known from archaeological sites date back to the XNUMXrd - early XNUMXth centuries.
        Stirrups from different tribes and peoples were originally made from a leather belt or rope and served as a device for landing in the saddle. These language materials show the wide distribution of such stirrups.
        The next step in the evolution of stirrups was a loop, reinforced by an insert-footboard. The remains of such stirrups II century. BC. found near Nagpur in India. This type of stirrup was also widespread. It is such loops with inserted wooden footboards that were recently discovered in the catacombs of the X-XII centuries. near Pyatigorsk. They are familiar with ethnographic analogues in the Stavropol Territory, Voronezh Region and other places of Central Russia.
        Stirrups were also made from other organic materials. For example, from wood (Korea, Japan). Only in the VIII century. the wooden stirrups of the Arabian cavalry were replaced by iron. There were wooden stirrups among the Mongols both in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries and at the present time. Until recently, wooden stirrups were used by Tuvans, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Yakuts and other peoples. In the territory of Tuva, stirrups made of bone and horn were also used. The same material was used to make stirrups and Khakasses. Felted stirrups are known in modern Kirghiz. Thus, the widespread use in ancient times of stirrups made from organic materials can hardly raise doubts.
        Stirrups, like many other necessary household items, arose, apparently, in different centers. The peculiar local forms were probably supplanted or pushed to the background with the advent of metal stirrups, which turned out to be universal. "
        archaeologist, doctor of historical sciences I.L. Kyzlasov
        See full text with notes here.
        : http: //kronk.spb.ru/library/ky ...
        1. Operator
          Operator 17 July 2017 22: 37
          0
          Quote: hohol95
          At present, the earliest stirrups known from archaeological sites date back to the 3rd - beginning of the 4th century.

          Did I read your text correctly? laughing
          Quote: Operator
          The oldest primitive stirrup, dated 302 year of BC, was found in modern China in places of resettlement of the Hunnu tribe, the oldest full-fledged stirrup dated 322 of year BC, is also found in the same places
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 17 July 2017 22: 44
            0
            That's right, but they apply not only to the territory of modern CHINA!

            Common in Japan in the III-V centuries. funeral figurines of the "haniva" often depict saddled horses.
            1. Operator
              Operator 17 July 2017 22: 58
              0
              In the photo of the khaniva figurine you have shown, not a stirrup, but a loop.

              In general, the invention of stirrups, rather than saddles, is discussed - on them a completely different alignment of historical artifacts (the first saddle with a hard lenok, as in your photo, was also found in northern China on the territory of the nomadic Turkic-speaking tribes and dated to 400 years before the first Japanese figures appeared Haniva).
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 17 July 2017 23: 19
                0
                Archaeologist, Doctor of History I.L.Kyzlasov - this is his text, I quoted writes the following -
                “Much earlier evidence of the existence of hard saddles is interesting. For example, a clay figurine of a horse with a high saddle is known among finds from Bazar-Kala (Khorezm, III century BC). About the use of hard saddles in the Huns (Huns) in the III century BC testifies to “Hanshu.” The 52nd chapter of the History of the Han Dynasty describes the battle of Pincheng. They built several fortified camps from their saddles around the ambushed Emperor Gao-di, “and their height reached height ( walls). ”In the Pazyryk era, wooden bow from the saddle with a solid skeleton from the Karakol burial ground in Altai belongs."
                In the photo of the khaniva figurine you have shown, not a stirrup, but a loop. -
                Do you think the loop is not a soft image of stapes?
                1. Operator
                  Operator 18 July 2017 00: 16
                  0
                  A stirrup is a stirrup, and a loop is a loop.
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 17 July 2017 23: 24
                0
                “The next step in the evolution of the stirrups was a loop reinforced by an insert-footboard. The remains of such stirrups of the XNUMXnd century BC were found near Nagpur in India. This type of stirrups was also widespread. These are the loops with inserted wooden footboards that were recently discovered in the catacombs. X-XII centuries near Pyatigorsk. Ethnographic analogues they know in the Stavropol Territory, Voronezh region and other places of Central Russia. "
  19. kalibr
    17 July 2017 22: 40
    0
    Only the Huns themselves hardly invented the stirrup, that’s the thing. And so, all years are indicated correctly.
    1. Operator
      Operator 17 July 2017 23: 06
      0
      By a “strange” coincidence, the inventors of another key detail of horse harness each time conquered a huge piece of living space - arias with chariots, Scythians / Sarmatians / Saki with horse riding as such, Turks with stirrups.

      Fake candidates for inventors such as the Near Asians, Indians and Chinese were terpils from the above peoples.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 17 July 2017 23: 31
        +1
        Let’s leave the Chinese ... And where do you think the hordes of Indian horsemen should ride and whom to conquer (if they were "hypothetical" of the inventor’s saddles and stirrups)? On the Hindustan Peninsula, were there climate changes that caused large masses of people to withdraw from places? Or have they united all their principalities into a single Empire decided to conquer the WEST WORLD?
        You can invent something, but do not bother with it - there is and is ... And the Indians do not bother until now ...
        Gunpowder didn’t particularly help the Chinese, and other things ...
        1. Operator
          Operator 18 July 2017 00: 21
          0
          The Indians (if they were the first to domesticate a horse, invent the wheel and chariots) could conquer Front Asia.

          But in reality, the first were the Aryans who conquered the Anatolian Peninsula, Central Asia, the Iranian Highlands and the Hindustan Peninsula.
    2. Curious
      Curious 17 July 2017 23: 20
      +2
      In the journal "Soviet Archeology" No. 3 for 1973, pp. 24-36, the article "On the Origin of the Step-Trees" by I.L. Kyzlasova. A brief conclusion.
      1) stirrups appear and begin to be widely used already from the 2th-3rd centuries. BC. At the same time, the earliest forms of a stiff saddle also appear; 4) early stirrups were made from organic materials; XNUMX) the development of types of stirrups can be imagined by the following approximate scheme: flexible loops (belt, rope) → fixed loops (with solid insert-footboard) → wooden → wooden, reinforced with metal plates → metal. It should be borne in mind that stirrups of organic materials have always continued to coexist with metal; XNUMX) the widest distribution of the early types of stirrups and the presence of their peculiar local forms among peoples with different household structures (wooden round and trapezoidal in Korea, “deaf” in Japan, with an “inner loop” in South Siberia, etc.) allow us to abandon the search for the people - “the inventor of stirrups”. Stirrups, like many other necessary household items, arose, apparently, in different centers. The peculiar local forms were probably crowded out or pushed into the background with the advent of metal stirrups, which turned out to be universal.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 17 July 2017 23: 33
        +1
        It is the MOST - allow you to abandon the search for the people - the "inventor of stirrups." Stirrups, like many other necessary household items, arose, apparently, in different centers. The peculiar local forms were probably crowded out or pushed into the background with the advent of metal stirrups, which turned out to be universal. good
      2. Operator
        Operator 18 July 2017 00: 25
        0
        Nevermind - who first invented metal stirrups (Huns) is one of priority.

        Outsiders can mock as much as they like: "they can abandon the search for the people - the" inventor of stirrups. "
        1. Curious
          Curious 18 July 2017 00: 56
          +2
          And where did you get the idea that the position of the Huns on this issue is unshakable?
          1. Operator
            Operator 18 July 2017 08: 03
            0
            Since the first time the metal stirrup was found in them, and alternative speculation was found only in the minds of alternative workers bully
            1. Curious
              Curious 18 July 2017 09: 24
              +3
              That is, you are sure about the absence of other archaeological materials and you think that any other devices of a similar purpose, not made of metal, cannot be called stirrups?
              1. Operator
                Operator 18 July 2017 20: 36
                0
                Present "other archaeological materials."

                Try trotting with your feet in the loop laughing
                1. Curious
                  Curious 18 July 2017 23: 33
                  +1
                  You know, in childhood we went bareback and traveled with one bridle. And the back of the collective farm horse sometimes looked like a fence, and their paces were mostly imprisoned under the cart. And with a saddle, and yes with stirrups - it was a great success.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 19 July 2017 00: 10
                    0
                    You drove a mile or a mile away, and at the same time you knew what a lynx is, and even more so a gallop you knew only from books.
                    1. Curious
                      Curious 19 July 2017 07: 23
                      +2
                      And what about your own cavalry experience? Do you dressage, your own stable, dusting on the run?
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 19 July 2017 18: 36
                        0
                        The wife is fond of this business - in the club, of course.
  20. kalibr
    17 July 2017 22: 45
    0
    Quote: hohol95
    It can be assumed that the belt stirrup is depicted on the famous vase from the Chertomlyk barrow (IV century BC).

    And you can not assume !!! Anything can be assumed ...
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 17 July 2017 23: 21
      0
      Archaeologist, Doctor of History I.L.Kyzlasov - this is his assumption.
      See the full text with notes here: http: //kronk.spb.ru/library/ky ...
      The next step in the evolution of stirrups was a loop, reinforced by an insert-footboard. The remains of such stirrups II century. BC. found near Nagpur in India. This type of stirrup was also widespread. It is such loops with inserted wooden footboards that were recently discovered in the catacombs of the X-XII centuries. near Pyatigorsk. They are familiar with ethnographic analogues in the Stavropol Territory, Voronezh Region and other places of Central Russia.
  21. Setrac
    Setrac 17 July 2017 23: 59
    +1
    I would like to know as a result of what such processes are the "petrification" of animals?
    There is a feeling that we are just being ... deceived.
    1. kalibr
      18 July 2017 10: 50
      0
      That is, there is a "factory" where millions of tons of fossils are produced for the whole world? Then they are transported, buried, then again torn ... And no one guesses and all the participants are silent? What for? Do you even imagine the volume of this production?
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 18 July 2017 11: 46
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        That is, there is a "factory" where millions of tons of fossils are produced for the whole world? Then they are transported, buried, then again torn ...

        Maybe animals were originally ... stone? Another life form? Although about the plant - a great idea.
    2. Curious
      Curious 18 July 2017 11: 38
      +1
      You can fill such an annoying gap in your school knowledge with the help of Google by typing the question "Fossil education."
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 18 July 2017 11: 45
        0
        Quote: Curious
        You can fill such an annoying gap in your school knowledge with the help of Google by typing the question "Fossil education."

        There crap full, excuse for dibilov.
        1. Curious
          Curious 18 July 2017 12: 41
          +3
          . Through the e. Try Yanin B. T. Terminological Dictionary of Paleontology. - Moscow: Moscow University Press, 1990. If this is too much for you, your education is one big gap.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 18 July 2017 21: 26
            0
            Quote: Curious
            Your education is one big gap

            And you try, wrap your Tuzik in concrete, and then check in a couple of years - the petrification process has begun!
            Okaam’s razor cut off your entire mosk.
            1. Curious
              Curious 18 July 2017 21: 50
              +2
              Your state of intelligence is the best evidence of fossils.
              1. kalibr
                19 July 2017 06: 33
                +2
                With whom only, Victor, do not have to hobble even here ... Alas ...
                1. Curious
                  Curious 19 July 2017 09: 10
                  +1
                  Apparently, this process will deepen and expand, especially in the light of the continuous reform of education. Now we are discussing the reform of school education, transferring the natural sciences to the category of optional subjects, subjects "by choice".
                  It seems that there is a purposeful movement towards universal paid education. They will leave something free of charge like a central train station so that the signs can read, and then for the money.
  22. kalibr
    18 July 2017 10: 55
    0
    Quote: Operator
    Since the first time the metal stirrup was found in them

    With them? That's for sure?
    1. Operator
      Operator 18 July 2017 20: 41
      0
      Share your alternate knowledge.
      1. Curious
        Curious 18 July 2017 22: 11
        0
        Knowledge is not mine, it is in the public domain. In order not to engage in copy paste, it will be too much, for example - http://www.academia.edu/10204305/%D0%95%D1%89%D1%
        91_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7_%D0%BE_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D
        0%BD%D0%B8%D1%85_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D
        0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%85._%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%95_4._201
        4._%D0%A1._297-322
        1. Operator
          Operator 18 July 2017 22: 15
          0
          Quote: Curious
          10204305/%D0%95%D1%89%D1%
          91_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7_%D0%BE_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D
          0%BD%D0%B8%D1%85_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D
          0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%85._%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%95_4._201
          4._%D0%A1._297-322

          On a fig you post abracadabra? laughing
          1. Curious
            Curious 18 July 2017 23: 21
            0
            Well you piece pulled out links.
            http://www.academia.edu/10204305/%D0%95%D1%89%D1%
            91_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7_%D0%BE_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D
            0%BD%D0%B8%D1%85_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D
            0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%85._%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%95_4._201
            4._%D0%A1._297-322
            Copy completely to the search engine string. It doesn’t always work directly. It worked for me, I checked, the article "Once again about the early stirrups. // RAE No. 4. 2014. S. 297-322"
            1. Operator
              Operator 19 July 2017 00: 16
              0
              Explain the essence - in the opus recommended by you is there anything concrete like the find of metal stirrups dated earlier than 302 of the year AD?
              1. Curious
                Curious 19 July 2017 07: 07
                0
                Extract the essence yourself.
                1. Operator
                  Operator 19 July 2017 18: 37
                  0
                  Clearly - flood.
                  1. Curious
                    Curious 19 July 2017 20: 17
                    +1
                    The English inventor Samuel Roubotham (1816–1884) in the XNUMXth century proved the flat shape of the Earth. His followers founded the Universal Zetetic Society.
                    In the USA, the ideas of Rowbotham were adopted by John Alexander Dowie, who founded the Christian Catholic Apostolic Church in 1895. In 1906, the head of the church was Deputy Dowie Wilbur Glenn Voliva, who defended and promoted the flat shape of the Earth until his death in 1942.
                    In 1956, Samuel Shenton revived the World Zetetic Society called the International Flat Earth Society. As president of the company in 1971, he was succeeded by Charles Johnson (born Charles K. Johnson). Over the three decades of Johnson's presidency, the number of supporters of society has increased significantly. Society distributed newsletters, flyers, and similar literature, which advocated a model of a flat earth. In the person of its leaders, the society claimed that the landing on the moon was a hoax, filmed in Hollywood according to the script of Arthur Clark or Stanley Kubrick.
                    Charles Johnson died in 2001, and the continued existence of the International Flat Earth Society is currently in doubt.
                    I suggest you urgently take up this matter. This is just for you. I am sure you will succeed!
                    1. Operator
                      Operator 19 July 2017 20: 52
                      0
                      What else can you expect from you on this issue, except for flooding laughing
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