Military Review

Well, for our turbines! ..

177
Thunder, lightning, tremors of the earth, the eruption of political volcanoes. Something like this can be characterized by the hysteria surrounding the appearance in Western mass media of materials about the supply of turbines of the German manufacturer Siemens to the Crimea, bypassing the existing sanctions. We are talking about two Siemens turbines, which, allegedly, were supplied for the Sevastopol TPP. Despite the fact that the very delivery of the German equipment to the Crimean peninsula is described in the Western media with numerous reservations in the “probably” and “possible” style, the hysteria is gaining momentum.


The main claim to Siemens is from the European Commission, which itself is under a heel, you know who ... The EC said that the German company had violated the sanctions regime applicable to Russia in the Crimea.

A brief excursion into history deals to understand the essence of the claims. The German concern Siemens, which has a representative office in Russia in the form of Siemens Gas Turbines Technology LLC (Russian share - 35%, German - 65%), sells its own gas turbines SGT5-2000E to Technopromexport ". At the same time, it is claimed that representatives of Technopromexport allegedly almost on the Bible swore that they would use turbines exclusively for projects on “mainland” Russia - in the Krasnodar Territory. The German concern, “unaware of the evil,” signed a contract, received money and uncorked champagne for the deal. Last year almost all of the Ukrainian mass media wrote about the deal, which proceeded with bile because their own (sufficient) volumes of electricity would soon be generated in the Crimea.

Well, for our turbines! ..


The months went by ... And now - information about German-made turbines, which “were treacherously forwarded to the Crimea,” came to light a little west of Berlin. The material caused a wide political resonance in the West, and Siemens was threatened with serious consequences for circumventing the sanctions. The management of Siemens answered: we are not guilty, these Russians have deceived us, because we could not have imagined ... and all that ... Ukraine joined, declaring that you can’t have anything to do with these Russians, because “Aggressors”, “occupiers”, “liars” and “enslavers of free nations”.

Now the German concern Siemens, which has already decided that none of the “well-wishers” will remember about the sanctions, followed the path of satisfaction claims - satisfaction for a monstrous insult of honor ... Representatives of the company filed a lawsuit against Technopromexport. Yes, not somewhere, but to the Moscow Arbitration Court. The same court will consider the activity of the joint Russian-German enterprise OOO Siemens Gas Turbine Technologies.

At the same time, Siemens claims that if it “turns out” that the turbines are really “Siemens”, then the company “will never again never supply anything to Russia.”

In general, the role of honest Germans slandered by mean Russians was played with a bang - as they say, without make-up and a long rehearsal process. Stanislavsky would say: I believe!

In Russia, they also played their part. From the statement of the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation Dmitry Peskov:
I leave this question without comment, although I will add that Russian-made turbines, assembled from Russian components, are indeed installed in the Crimea.


It remained to add: I ask the one who says that Siemens Gas Turbines Technology LLC, whose name is indicated in Cyrillic, is not a Russian manufacturer, first throw a stone at me.

And then they believed.

Ukraine does not believe ... What are you going to do ...

Representatives of a country that is holding on to anti-Russian sanctions, as if drowning in a straw, declare that neither Siemens nor the Moscow Arbitration Court can be trusted in any way. What you need to attract "international experts" who will document the transportation of German turbines to the sanctions Crimea. Instead of a Russian court, a lawsuit must be filed almost to Strasbourg.

The situation is generally interesting. Pushing European products to Russia through Belarus with label gluing is this, please. Please also declare strict observance of human rights in Europe. And what is the ban on the supply of equipment that is intended to receive light and heat for more than two million Crimeans? How does this generally fit in with human rights?

Anyway. In the end, the turbines on the peninsula are set, and then let them even understand The Hague, whether they are German or not German. Here another question is more relevant. On the eve of the "VO" there was a material about the international exhibition "Innoprom-2017" - the one whose business partner is the Japanese. So ... At Innoprom they consider the wonders of technology, which are made not only in Japan, but, as stated, in Russia too: complexes for diagnosing the condition of drivers during a voyage, electric taxi, promising nano-processing machines, robotic tools for metal cutting, deposition of special sputtering, miniaturization technology of satellites, etc. What I need it for. And the fact that we create a robot that is designed to recognize dog excrement in a sandbox, and we buy turbines for a gas thermal power plant abroad.

Here, of course, you can look for switchmen, write angry public letters, etc., but you need to state that the sanctions were sharpened. Those who introduced the sanctions were well aware of the trail that left “free 90-e” on the production soil of our country. Blow by blow, blow by blow - at factories, research institutes, programs that were inherited from the technological potential of the USSR. The thesis that for one “voucher” you will receive two “Volga”, and that chewing gum with “Coke” - here it is, freedom, the majority of the population suppressed an understanding of the obvious - the country was rolling into a technological abyss. This abyss has led to the fact that today there is no longer enough just the desire to start our own production of turbines suitable for the characteristics of TPPs. There is a market that says: “it will be cheaper to buy from anyone than to produce it yourself”. And, it turns out, really nothing to produce. So they bought it from the Germans. Could the Chinese or someone else. Essentially, in general, does not change, even taking into account the presence of euro-sanctions and the lack of sanctions by the PRC.

However, the situation should not be interpreted from the perspective of "delayed ... polymers." This is both a signal and a lesson for the state. If you do not sweep away what is artificially implanted by the adherents of the deification of the paper-note mass, and start thinking about real investments in the domestic machine-tool industry, instrument-making, and the production of machines and units, Russia will continue to look with interest at the European Commission and other obscurantists. - For those who are behind double standards and the desire to curry favor with Big Brother, he is ready to neglect the interests of even his own taxpayers, not to mention the vital interests of the same Crimeans.

So Crimea gives us all good podzh..nik incentive, so that in this case, the sanctions to turn Russia to benefit. Here are just "effective managers" can again say their "weighty" word ...
Author:
Photos used:
dpa
177 comments
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  1. inkass_98
    inkass_98 12 July 2017 06: 47
    +19
    It is impossible not to agree with the fact that "ssanktsii" give a good impetus to the development of technologies in the country. This is good and right, too many industries have been left outside the Russian Federation, hoping for cooperation and "fraternal cooperation." Whatever the turbines, it was said that they had been modernized in Russia under the conditions of the installation site, i.e. The final product was own production. And the words "Siemens", that they will "never and nothing" be delivered to Russia, is simply a bluff. The vacated space will immediately take, for example, "Bosch" (relatively speaking), or someone from the Chinese.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 12 July 2017 06: 56
      +15
      I partially agree with you .. But only at our enterprise for the processing of sunflower in the Krasnodar Territory, the automated process control system is completely "Simenovskaya" .. Could we also supply the domestic one, well, the same "Aries" .. No, the owner is charitable all German .. The truth runs the risk of not getting a single rusty nail now ..
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 12 July 2017 08: 17
        +17
        Well, so the agricultural holding magnate, hiding under the guise of the Minister of Agriculture, said what happened to Siemens with them (who? wink ) "special relationship ....."
        1. Pivot
          Pivot 16 July 2017 01: 43
          0
          You are mistaken, he is only an executive tycoon, this holding belongs to guys who are cooler than Alexander Nikolaevich.
      2. borov
        borov 12 July 2017 10: 26
        +29
        "Aries" ... Leave aside the quality of this product. This is not the case. If you open it, then not a single Russian component wakes up there. The fact that on foreign machines we make boards for these PLCs, and then they stuff them with Chinese microcircuits, does not make Aries domestic, as well as any other product for any sector of the national economy. We need to develop our own, completely killed microelectronics. But here as they say. After all, we have Olympiads, footballs, effective managers, etc.
        Z.Y. And the software development environment for this "Aries" is also German. Sailed, gentlemen ...
        1. 210ox
          210ox 12 July 2017 15: 06
          +2
          Domestic components and components are a separate sexual drama .. By the way, about Aries .. About ten years ago it was not there. Not this manufacturer but the product line. I am very critical of our economic efforts by the government, but there is at least some kind of clearance.
        2. 210ox
          210ox 12 July 2017 15: 26
          +2
          Well, about CoDeSys..Yes.German .. The truth is, the Japanese work on it .. When we destroyed, they created it. In the USSR there were their own controllers-L100.P100. In Cheboksary they did .. Well, again, we will not assume what if it weren’t ...
          Quote: borov
          "Aries" ... Leave aside the quality of this product. This is not the case. If you open it, then not a single Russian component wakes up there. The fact that on foreign machines we make boards for these PLCs, and then they stuff them with Chinese microcircuits, does not make Aries domestic, as well as any other product for any sector of the national economy. We need to develop our own, completely killed microelectronics. But here as they say. After all, we have Olympiads, footballs, effective managers, etc.
          Z.Y. And the software development environment for this "Aries" is also German. Sailed, gentlemen ...
          1. borov
            borov 14 July 2017 15: 23
            0
            The Japanese are working (Hitachi) ... And then there is a certain line of PLCs ...
            But OMRON and Mitsubishi have their own development environment, and the number
            there are incomparably more supported industrial protocols than
            ARIES:
            http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/fa/products/cnt
            / plc /
            https://industrial.omron.ru/ru/products/programma
            ble-logic-controllers
            The thing, after all, is not that someone else works with CoDeSys, but that
            have your own platform for industrial control systems, independent of anyone. Both in terms of software and in terms of hardware ... Russia cannot afford the luxury of being addicted at least in some way
            from someone. Otherwise, they will devour us.
        3. Mexovoy
          Mexovoy 12 July 2017 23: 45
          +2
          Here he is the savior of Russia. It was not necessary to reconstruct the Sochi agglomeration. It was necessary to develop microelectronics. They would have healed right away. That's just the savior of Russia did not hear the report of Medvedev. In which he admitted that out of 70 billion rubles invested in microelectronics development projects, not a single ruble paid off.
          1. borov
            borov 13 July 2017 16: 41
            +2
            Has it paid off for the Olympics? If Medvedev, for example, cannot build a barn on the site because of the curvature of his hands, but a shed is needed, does it come out of this that you do not need to invest in it and you do not need to build it? And how can it immediately pay off? It takes years. But you and Medvedev know best ...
          2. Reklastik
            Reklastik 18 July 2017 18: 32
            +1
            Microelectronics is generally a very expensive area. No super profits. But without microelectronics in any way. Therefore, who can - invested.
        4. Aingof
          Aingof 13 July 2017 08: 21
          0
          Do not know, about 5 years already, the PLC puffs 24/7. But on the PR, the power supply boards fly out after a couple of years. There is now a PC power supply laughing laughing. And inside, there is almost nothing domestic, China alone.
          1. gaura
            gaura 14 July 2017 06: 47
            +2
            China, too, would not be so smart and beautiful in itself. China is a global corporation. How many truly Chinese firms and developments are there? negligible. Globalization has been and remains. She spent a lot of effort over the past quarter century. And Russia has been assigned a column in globalization, so our attempts to create something will always be fiercely opposed
        5. bodzu
          bodzu 15 July 2017 08: 58
          +1
          As for the quality. It is different, including German. In Vladivostok, the Bulgarian comrades made a roof for the oceanarium. So the electronics on the machine for the manufacture of roof parts was a concern of Siemens, successfully failed due to the fault of the developers. The PLC 100 working in the same place works safely.
        6. seos
          seos 16 July 2017 21: 58
          0
          It seems that we always did turbines ourselves ... how does it turn out that we have to buy turbines in the west .... in the same Khabarovsk, turbines are made ... and I think not only there ...
      3. AA17
        AA17 12 July 2017 13: 17
        +10
        Dear, inkass_98. I think if there are a few more such problems with the equipment supplied to us from abroad (for example: Boeings and spare parts for them will cease to be sold to us), then it may come to some people who make crucial decisions for the country that it’s necessary to develop their own industry. How many modern industries could be launched with the money allocated for the construction of the Zenit Arena stadium, etc. Here they are the consequences of the activities of Gaidar with his motto: "Why do it yourself when you can buy in the West." There is no Gaidar, but his teaching, "Gaidarism," lives on and is steadily promoted by his "witnesses."
      4. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 12 July 2017 20: 47
        0
        Aries is a constructor. Siemens gives a batch solution ....
        1. 210ox
          210ox 13 July 2017 01: 45
          0
          Not so long ago, a department appeared at Aries that delivers products according to the terms of reference and on a turn-key basis. He was a "designer" about fifteen years ago. It was the first time I came across their regulators when I worked at a commissioning "company" By the way, yes. I then had questions about the quality of their products.
          Quote: Zaurbek
          Aries is a constructor. Siemens gives a batch solution ....
          1. Winnie76
            Winnie76 13 July 2017 01: 55
            +1
            Quote: 210ox
            I then had questions about the quality of their products.

            What is wrong with the quality of Aries? Normal regulators of average lousiness, sometimes they burn - they work for years. There are sane money.
          2. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 13 July 2017 16: 53
            +1
            God grant. The main thing in these matters is an integrated approach. When western equipment is restored, Aries is usually used.
      5. datur
        datur 13 July 2017 00: 19
        0
        Well, this is the personal right of your owner !!! wink learn from mistakes !!!! wink
    2. svp67
      svp67 12 July 2017 07: 26
      +2
      Quote: inkass_98
      The vacated place will immediately take, for example, “Bosch” (relatively speaking) or someone from the Chinese.

      ... Japanese or South Koreans.
      1. netslave
        netslave 12 July 2017 08: 35
        +14
        Quote: svp67
        ... Japanese or South Koreans

        Ha!!! If. Initially, they planned to install Iranian turbines in Crimea (the local Mapna produces them using the technology of the same Siemens). Yes, not fused.
        Iranian, Karl !!!
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 12 July 2017 09: 51
          +4
          Quote: netslave
          Iranian, Karl !!!

          Iranian would not have pulled - the power is two times lower than the Siemens. Considered as a spare emergency unit.
          1. netslave
            netslave 12 July 2017 11: 29
            +12
            Google says Iranian V94.2 has a capacity of 160 MW. Siemens AGT5-2000E - 168 MW.
            But I'm not talking about that. It doesn’t matter, 160 or 80 MW. The only important thing is that Iran can and does it.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. nadezhiva
              nadezhiva 12 July 2017 13: 11
              +7
              Quote: netslave
              Google says Iranian V94.2 has a capacity of 160 MW. Siemens AGT5-2000E - 168 MW.
              But I'm not talking about that. It doesn’t matter, 160 or 80 MW. The only important thing is that Iran can and does it.

              The Leningrad Metal Plant, Kaluga Turbine Plant plus other enterprises of the country are apparently for the Russian leadership and do not exist in nature.
              It’s just in front of the Kremlin to advertise:
              Power Machines ”- a provider of complete solutions for the power industry

              The company "Power Machines" designs, manufactures and supplies:

              steam turbines of various types with a capacity of up to 1200 MW;
              turbogenerators of various types with a capacity of up to 1200 MW;
              boiler equipment: power boilers, waste heat boilers, heat exchange auxiliary equipment, etc .;
              electrical automation systems;
              additional equipment: condensers, oil coolers, CPU, check valves for steam extraction, filters, etc.

              Maybe they will notice?
              1. netslave
                netslave 12 July 2017 14: 28
                +5
                You confuse gas turbines with steam ones. Power machines do not produce gas turbines. Like the Kaluga Turbine. Gas turbines are assembled at Perm Motors. And there is nothing more powerful than their GTU-25P with a nominal 25 MW, apparently, in our country.
                1. nadezhiva
                  nadezhiva 12 July 2017 22: 40
                  0
                  ? GTE-160 Electric power 157 MW. Manufacturer "Power Machines". No? Not this way? The asset "SM" is the execution of work at Verkhnetagilskaya state district power station, including manufacture and supply of a 140 MW steam turbine complete with a generator and a 306 MW gas turbine also complete with a generator.
                  In 1991, a joint venture was created - then LMZ and Siemens - for the assembly of gas turbines. An agreement was signed on the transfer of technology to the then Leningrad Metal Plant, which is now part of OJSC Power Machines. This joint venture collected 19 turbines in 10 years. Over the years, LMZ has accumulated production experience in order to learn not only how to assemble these turbines, but also to manufacture some components on their own. Based on this experience, in 2001 a license agreement was signed with Siemens for the right to manufacture, sell and after-sales service for turbines of the same type. They received the Russian marking GTE-160. "
                  1. netslave
                    netslave 13 July 2017 14: 41
                    0
                    In fact, I would like to listen to a specialist in the field of electric power. Because I'm just a chemical technologist. Well, and so - that's what they managed to google:

                    1. "In 1992, a branch of OJSC Power Machines LMZ began the development of the production of V94.2 power gas turbine units under a license from Siemens. Since 2001, OJSC Power Machines obtained the rights to manufacture and sell this gas turbine under its own brand GTE-160. During this period, a lot of work was done on the processing of design and technological documentation, selection and approval of the use of Russian analog materials with Siemens, which made it possible to purchase forgings, castings, rolled products on the Russian market, and the manufacture of over 60% of gas turbine components was localized. Specialists of the LMZ branch took part in the development of an electronic regulatory system and the creation of GTU control algorithms in conjunction with Siemens. "

                    So, the GTE-160 is originally a Simensovskaya V94.2. The same V94.2, which is produced under license by Iran. Unfortunately, I did not find confirmation on the network that the purchase of this particular model was discussed with Iran.

                    2. "Doubt about the feasibility of constructing a combined cycle gas turbine with GTE-160 arises in connection with the use of a significant proportion of parts of this gas turbine purchased abroad (according to unofficial data, up to 40%), in particular, cooled gas turbine blades." ("Modern Heat Power Engineering", 2004)

                    3. As part of the Power Machines concern, until 2006 there was ZAO Gas Turbines. In the indicated 2006, it was liquidated due to loss-making. True, I did not understand which turbines were produced there.

                    4. In 2011, Siemens Gas Turbine Technology LLC was established - Siemens JV (65%) and Power Machines OJSC (35%). They write that the company "is engaged in the development of gas turbines, localization of production, assembly, sale, project management and maintenance of gas turbines in Russia and the CIS." In fact, the plant launched in 2015 is engaged in the final assembly of Siemens turbines.

                    5. The supply of a 306 MW gas turbine declared on the off-site of Power Machines for the construction of a new unit of Verkhnetagilskaya TPP is cunning (note: on the same site, gas turbines are absent in principle in the list of manufactured products). In fact, the Verkhny Tagil State District Power Plant delivered the SGT5-4000F gas turbine unit, manufactured by Siemens, complete with the SGen 5-1000A generator. Her Power Machines recorded their assets, apparently due to 35% in the joint venture indicated above.

                    6. By the way, they write that in each case Siemens decides where it will supply its turbines from - from Germany or from the Russian plant of Siemens Gas Turbine Technology LLC.

                    General conclusion: gas turbines with a capacity of 160 MW were produced and are being produced in Russia under the license of Siemens. The GTE-160 model manufactured by Power Machines has the same Siemens roots. I would venture to suggest that after the creation of a joint venture with Siemens, Power Machines OJSC refused to continue its production. At least, the latest deliveries of this model, mentioned in the network, refer to 2010.

                    Something like that.
                  2. netslave
                    netslave 13 July 2017 14: 49
                    0
                    LMZ also produced the GTE-150 model (already since 1990). It is not clear, however, whether this model was entirely domestic development or had foreign roots. But beyond the experimental installations, its production did not advance. They write about a large number of problems that developers have encountered. As a result, the turbine was not economical enough.
                2. ism_ek
                  ism_ek 13 July 2017 10: 17
                  0
                  Quote: netslave
                  And there is nothing more powerful than their GTU-25P with a nominal 25 MW, apparently, in our country.

                  There is a government import substitution program in this industry. An experimental turbine made in Rybinsk is operating. Unfortunately, in the last three years, the plant has concentrated on launching gas turbines for ships. After the coup in Ukraine, our ships were left without engines at all. As soon as ship turbines are launched into series, it will not be difficult to start production of turbines for the energy sector. Capacities are comparable. Resource of marine turbines 3..4 years. A resource of turbines for energy is half a year ... year.
                  Perm Motors are busy with a promising engine for the MS-21. Their installations for power engineers are based on aircraft engines.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 12 July 2017 20: 49
        +2
        You are mistaken. Companies like Siemens are buying competitors and as a result, you will not pass by them. Everywhere ears stick out
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 12 July 2017 08: 15
      +13
      While our liberal government will work for our loved ones, and not for the state, little will change. The system needs to be changed. hi
    4. Kent0001
      Kent0001 12 July 2017 12: 18
      +6
      Need to buy a license! LICENSE! and collect by yourself. You need to buy TECHNOLOGIES or copy and steal, I won’t say how one of our neighbors is.
      1. Alf
        Alf 12 July 2017 22: 20
        +1
        Quote: Kent0001
        Need to buy a license! LICENSE! and collect by yourself. You need to buy TECHNOLOGIES or copy and steal, I won’t say how one of our neighbors is.

        Who will sell it? Who will give permission to purchase a license? Duma? So the Duma is preoccupied with the observance of copyright to films and music, it does not care about some turbines there.
    5. Alekseev
      Alekseev 12 July 2017 18: 11
      +1
      Quote: inkass_98
      And the words of Siemens that they will never deliver to Russia will simply be a bluff.

      The turbines are not Siemens - he sold them, and there is already the owner’s business: to upgrade them, resell them or turn them into scrap metal.
      Ah, sanctions do not order to be sold to Crimea? But Siemens did not sell there ...
      By the way, the different sanctions there on the territory of Russia do not work, which the high court should explain to Siemens.
      The very process of going to court resembles a simple insurance - they say, "it’s not my fault, he came" ...
      1. Walanin
        Walanin 17 July 2017 22: 40
        0
        There could be clauses in the contract about where the turbines would go next. If these points are violated, then the buyer is to blame.
    6. JackTheRipper
      JackTheRipper 13 July 2017 01: 29
      +1
      I advise you to read this article here http://neftegaz.ru/news/view/161746-Importozamesc
      henie-v-TEK.-Government-stvennaya-komissiya-po-impor
      tozamescheniyu-dala-ryad-vazhnyh-porucheniy
      Written on June 5, 2017. It says that the first sample GTD-110M (the most powerful and promising turbine, our answer to Siemens in essence) should be born to "4th quarter of 2017". And then this scandal suddenly broke out! So, I think, they somehow sensed that the monopoly was somehow getting out of their hands! That's the thing!
      1. Walanin
        Walanin 17 July 2017 22: 42
        0
        Quote: JackTheRipper
        should be born by the 4th quarter of 2017

        there Rogozin did not make statements by accident?
    7. Oleg Salov
      Oleg Salov 15 July 2017 00: 23
      +1
      Why are the Chinese, the Japanese already selling us turbines in the Far East and are going to expand production, I don’t think that Japanese turbines will be worse than German ones.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 16 July 2017 00: 27
        +1
        And their turbines of commensurate quality have not been, and are not. And there will not be in the foreseeable future - after all, all the hopes of the state - for the return of expensive oil. In all seriousness, they believe that the current rollback is a short-term anomaly, which means that you should hold out at all costs to rise in price, and there the problems will become irrelevant. In general, the mistake of the Kremlin elders is repeated, which led to perestroika and, ultimately, to the collapse of the USSR.
    8. The comment was deleted.
  2. Locksmith
    Locksmith 12 July 2017 07: 21
    +3
    Come on, they started to fuss. They have a law that allows products to be called local if there is some share of local spare parts in it, for example, the notorious Grundig produced a TV under its own brand in which the pipe from Toshiba stood, and this a minute, about 60% of the cost of the TV. Or even funnier - the Grundig video camera laughing , that in general is entirely "Panasonic", only a nameplate from the Germans.
    Ours and went on this path -Figli now yell something smile
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 July 2017 07: 30
      +11
      Quote: Locksmith
      Ours and went on this path -Figli now yell something

      Yes, everything is much funnier there. Four turbines were delivered by Siemens for the promising Taman Thermal Power Plant, even before 2014. They didn’t build that CHPP and what it’s going to do now, and most importantly, FOR WHAT LAW, I don’t understand Siemens. Russia that recognized the legality of Western sanctions? They are kind of ridiculous, complaining about violation of anti-Russian sanctions in a Russian court ...
      1. tamnun
        tamnun 12 July 2017 08: 25
        +4
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: Locksmith
        Ours and went on this path -Figli now yell something

        Yes, everything is much funnier there. Four turbines were delivered by Siemens for the promising Taman Thermal Power Plant, even before 2014. They didn’t build that CHPP and what it’s going to do now, and most importantly, FOR WHAT LAW, I don’t understand Siemens. Russia that recognized the legality of Western sanctions? They are kind of ridiculous, complaining about violation of anti-Russian sanctions in a Russian court ...

        Siemens will not dispute the legality or non-legality of sanctions - a Russian court will discuss violations of the contract
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 12 July 2017 09: 58
          +9
          Quote: tamnun
          Siemens will not dispute the legality or non-legality of sanctions - a Russian court will discuss violations of the contract

          I am tormented by vague doubts that the contract concluded before 2014 clearly stipulated that the place of delivery, as well as mounting and operation - Taman. Typically, such conditions are set when selling a license, technology and equipment for the production of military equipment, where one of the conditions is "denial of access to technology and products obtained using this technology to third parties." But in this case, Crimea, which is territorially and administratively part of the Russian Federation, cannot be a third party.
          With the same success, Siemens may next year challenge the operation of e / trains delivered to Russia if these trains run across the bridge in the Kerch Strait.
          In the end, it's time for Siemens to decide - what is more important to them - business or politics.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 12 July 2017 20: 53
            +1
            The equipment is sold to the end user. Such contracts for any industrial equipment. My client in Crimea is not selling, for example, the Mayn poultry slaughtering line ...
          2. Captain Nemo
            Captain Nemo 13 July 2017 01: 11
            0
            You're wrong. The object for which the equipment is intended, along with the location location is always indicated
        2. svp67
          svp67 12 July 2017 16: 30
          +2
          Quote: tamnun
          Siemens will not dispute the legality or non-legality of sanctions - a Russian court will discuss violations of the contract

          The contract for the supply of these turbines and the delivery itself were carried out BEFORE the introduction of sanctions.
    2. north
      north 12 July 2017 17: 41
      0
      Yes, enough examples. Take the auto industry. Volvo cars that have their own configuration? And the car is Swedish.
  3. Rock_n_roll
    Rock_n_roll 12 July 2017 07: 26
    +9
    If the contract does not explicitly spell out the inadmissibility of using turbines in the Crimea (and it is not there and cannot be there, because this contradicts Russian law, according to which Crimea is Russia), then there are no judicial prospects in the case, at least in the Moscow arbitration, at least in the hague.
    Therefore, the problem of Siemens in his showdown with the EC about the violation or circumvention of sanctions, this is his personal problem. Ours, of course, can play along, after all, a serious partner, but hardly anyone in the EC will believe in a fairy tale that the concern was not aware of where its turbines would be used.
    1. tamnun
      tamnun 12 July 2017 08: 29
      0
      Quote: Rock_n_Roll
      If the contract does not explicitly spell out the inadmissibility of using turbines in the Crimea (and it is not there and cannot be there, because this contradicts Russian law, according to which Crimea is Russia), then there are no judicial prospects in the case, at least in the Moscow arbitration, at least in the hague.
      Therefore, the problem of Siemens in his showdown with the EC about the violation or circumvention of sanctions, this is his personal problem. Ours, of course, can play along, after all, a serious partner, but hardly anyone in the EC will believe in a fairy tale that the concern was not aware of where its turbines would be used.

      Of course, this clause of the contract is prescribed - otherwise all Western companies would have to curtail their work in Russia so they would be subject to sanctions by the European Union.
      The contract (in fact) is signed by two parties and then appeals that Crimea is Russia - if the contract states that supplies to Crimea are not allowed - it is useless - this is a condition and the buying party agreed to this
      1. Rock_n_roll
        Rock_n_roll 12 July 2017 09: 03
        +4
        What does it mean, of course, have you seen the contract? Me not. And even if there is such a clause, the transaction is automatically declared null and void immediately after the fact of the use of turbines in the Crimea is established, due to a violation of the clause of the contract.
        However, in his lawsuit, Siemens does not appeal to a violation of the contract itself, but refers to certain agreements that you can’t get to the point.
        1. tamnun
          tamnun 12 July 2017 09: 15
          0
          Quote: Rock_n_Roll
          What does it mean, of course, have you seen the contract? Me not. And even if there is such a clause, the transaction is automatically declared null and void immediately after the fact of the use of turbines in the Crimea is established, due to a violation of the clause of the contract.
          However, in his lawsuit, Siemens does not appeal to a violation of the contract itself, but refers to certain agreements that you can’t get to the point.

          Well, actually, Siemens declared a violation of the terms of the contract and sued - somehow, I believe Siemens
          Your remark about the termination of the transaction when using turbines in the Crimea is not clear. There are conditions of contact, and if one of the parties is violated, it is sued
          As for the agreements, can you give a link? As far as i read

          . July 10, Siemens said that the turbines delivered to Crimea were intended for the construction of energy capacities in the Krasnodar Territory and were moved to the Crimea against the will of the manufacturer.

          “Over the past few months, the buyer has repeatedly confirmed to us in writing that this equipment will not be delivered to the Crimea. As a result of what happened, Siemens initiates legal prosecution of those responsible for this, ”the Siemens statement said.

          The company also announced its intention to file a lawsuit “to ban any new deliveries to the Crimea” and return the equipment already delivered there to the Krasnodar Territory.

          “It is also possible a decision on the repurchase of equipment. Siemens scrupulously complies with all requirements and restrictions in accordance with export control rules and requires the same from its partners and customers, ”the company said in a statement.

          On July 11, German Ambassador to Russia Rüdiger von Fritsch called on Russian authorities to investigate the delivery of Siemens turbines to Crimea bypassing sanctions, warning that breach of the contract could be a “severe blow to investment in Russia.”

          Read more at RBC:
          http://www.rbc.ru/business/11/07/2017/5964c8819a7
          94733879aaeae
          1. Roman Skomorokhov
            Roman Skomorokhov 12 July 2017 12: 50
            +3
            Excuse me, do you understand what you subscribe for?
            You buy a car, and the manufacturer begins to dictate conditions to you, where to go, and where not?
            Paid - the rest do not care. Where we want, there and vkoryachivaem, since the signing of transfer documents - these are our turbines.
            It is clear that the Sims have filed for arbitration, they will lose it, and neat money will go on to make money.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 12 July 2017 15: 52
              +2
              Quote: Banshee
              You buy a car, and the manufacturer begins to dictate conditions to you, where to go, and where not?

              And I’m thinking - Sapsan was bought from Siemens. Now it can not be put on the line in the Crimea? And "Swift" and "Swallow", based on the "Peregrine Falcon" - there too?
            2. Walanin
              Walanin 17 July 2017 22: 47
              0
              Quote: Banshee
              You buy a car, and the manufacturer begins to dictate conditions to you, where to go, and where not?

              If there is such a clause in the contract, then yes, the manufacturer may dictate the terms. In the same way, for example, you cannot import a phone from China into the country if you have an official representative of the company in Russia. An attempt to import will be smuggling and period.
          2. Rock_n_roll
            Rock_n_roll 12 July 2017 15: 15
            0
            Well, where in your passage are the words about "breach of contract" *?
      2. faiver
        faiver 12 July 2017 11: 26
        +1
        if the contract for the supply of turbines in Taman was concluded before the spring of 2014, then where would the point on the Crimea come from?
        1. Rock_n_roll
          Rock_n_roll 12 July 2017 15: 16
          0
          Legally, the Contract is considered both the Contract itself and any additions to it signed by the parties that could be concluded later.
          1. faiver
            faiver 12 July 2017 15: 43
            +1
            well this is understandable, i.e. our "rams" took and signed the corresponding addition?
            1. Rock_n_roll
              Rock_n_roll 12 July 2017 17: 37
              +1
              I have not seen the contract, but I doubt it very much. Otherwise, Siemens would have acted differently. By itself, the fact of circumventing sanctions is Siemens’s problem, but failure to fulfill the terms of the contract is already a buyer’s problem. therefore, 99 percent. I am sure that both sides were well aware of what they were going to, and all these claims are pure props or plan B)
              1. faiver
                faiver 12 July 2017 17: 49
                0
                it may very well be ....
    2. Großer feldherr
      Großer feldherr 12 July 2017 12: 25
      +1
      Nevertheless, Siemens vowed that it had taken a written document from Russian officials guaranteeing that the turbines would not enter the Crimea, and on the basis of this document ALREADY went to court.
      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        Roman Skomorokhov 12 July 2017 12: 51
        +1
        Quote: Großer Feldherr
        Siemens vows that it has taken a written document from Russian officials to ensure that the turbines do not fall into the Crimea


        Have you seen him? Then I ask, proofs in the studio)))
        1. Großer feldherr
          Großer feldherr 12 July 2017 15: 50
          +1
          If I saw him and talked differently.
          Siemens will not lie, otherwise they will attract for slander.
          The Siemens concern filed a lawsuit in the Moscow Arbitration Court in the case of the delivery of its gas turbine units to the Crimea. From the file of the case it follows that the defendants in the lawsuit filed on July 10, 2017 are the companies OJSC Technopromexport, LLC Technopromexport and LLC Siemens Gas Turbine Technology .............. " Over the last few months the buyer has repeatedly confirmed in writing to us that this equipment will not be delivered to the Crimea. As a result of what happened, Siemens initiates legal prosecution of those responsible for this, ”the Siemens statement said.

          http://www.rbc.ru/business/11/07/2017/5964c8819a7
          94733879aaeae
        2. bk316
          bk316 12 July 2017 19: 36
          +2
          I’m almost sure that it says something like "products will be used exclusively in the Russian Federation"
          . Well, and accordingly for the courts of the Russian Federation there is no violation for the courts of the European Union.
          For those who consider Crimea not Russian, this is confirmation that there will be no supplies to Crimea, but for ours it’s exactly the opposite.
        3. xxx3
          xxx3 19 July 2017 21: 31
          0
          Quote: Banshee
          Then please, proofs in the studio

          People with such manners are only for the money. For the big ones.
    3. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 15 July 2017 08: 51
      0
      There is more likely a violation of the supply agreement ... Siemens sold it to one thermal power plant, and the equipment went to another ... Withdrawal from the guarantee .. not more. Payment made, goods delivered, managers received bonuses and wrote a beautiful sales report ..
  4. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 12 July 2017 07: 41
    +8
    Someone said: “If you rub any Russian, you will find Tatar under it ....”, in the new reality for Russia it sounds like this: “If you rub the notorious“ import-substituted ”products, then“ western ”or Chinese products will be found under it. .. " wink
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 12 July 2017 11: 20
      +2
      And if you rub the American? A lot there will be found produced in the United States?
      1. Kenxnumx
        Kenxnumx 12 July 2017 11: 59
        +6
        Why rub the American. Did they get away with almost the whole world.
    2. Rock_n_roll
      Rock_n_roll 12 July 2017 17: 39
      0
      Did you establish this empirically in a bathhouse? They didn’t rub anything but Ukrainians, so they frantically remembered the Tatars)
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 12 July 2017 08: 00
    +3
    the role of slandered by vile Russians honest Germans played with a bang

    Bottom line: ours are also not "finger made." Settled legally given all possible claims. If I'm not mistaken, then Siemens has already stated that it cannot legally run into Russia.
    1. tamnun
      tamnun 12 July 2017 08: 30
      +3
      Quote: rotmistr60
      the role of slandered by vile Russians honest Germans played with a bang

      Bottom line: ours are also not "finger made." Settled legally given all possible claims. If I'm not mistaken, then Siemens has already stated that it cannot legally run into Russia.

      It is quite likely that Siemens will simply turn off cooperation with Russia and this will end the matter.
      1. rotmistr60
        rotmistr60 12 July 2017 08: 38
        +5
        It’s not worth it to pass off as valid. I want to remind you of the "complete isolation of Russia", and of the "torn to shreds of the economy", and of the "" regional power. which you don’t even need to talk to. "Enough?
        1. tamnun
          tamnun 12 July 2017 08: 43
          +1
          Quote: rotmistr60
          It’s not worth it to pass off as valid. I want to remind you of the "complete isolation of Russia", and of the "torn to shreds of the economy", and of the "" regional power. which you don’t even need to talk to. "Enough?

          No, it’s not clear why did you write this?
          the question is one: can Russia independently produce turbines, the second question is: what will be the loss of Siemens under EU sanctions?
          I somehow have the idea that for the sake of Russia Siemens will not beat pots with the EU
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 12 July 2017 09: 00
            +4
            Quote: tamnun
            the question is one: can Russia independently produce turbines, the second question is: what will be the loss of Siemens under EU sanctions?
            I somehow have the idea that for the sake of Russia Siemens will not beat pots with the EU

            Most likely - and other European companies can now look askance in our direction! And the fact that after all the import substitution programs announced since 2014, we still cannot build turbines ourselves, says a lot. And any garbage that the Western capitalists will not work at a loss there does not mean anything - otherwise sanctions would not have led! Even Trump will make them buy their gas, expensively, busting Gazprom with its "flows" and no one will do anything
            1. ZAV69
              ZAV69 12 July 2017 09: 55
              +3
              Yes, they gave up these European companies ...... What are they doing so exclusive that can not be bought elsewhere? Moreover, most of their products are already in China with a European nameplate.
              we still cannot build turbines ourselves, says a lot.

              And what is the need for these turbines that we had to do them ourselves? We basically have all the energy working the old fashioned way, on steam turbines, initially most of the boilers were even sharpened for coal. It’s cheaper to transfer old stations to gas turbines to build a new station. Here in Sevastopol they built a new one. And they would not have managed to make them from scratch in 2 years. The development and launch cycle of such a piece of iron for 5 years is no less. There ship just did, have not even experienced yet. And this is taking into account the fact that there is some experience. And energy of such power .... There should be a niokra ... But is it necessary? Although of course it doesn’t hurt.
            2. vovanpain
              vovanpain 12 July 2017 10: 31
              +5
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              Most likely - and other European companies can now look askance in our direction!

              Firstly, it’s not necessary to panic, first of all, a Colleague! Even if they ask sideways, even straight, even if they look crookedly, all these sanctions just extend the chain of intermediaries and the price. Secondly, Siemens doesn’t live alone in the world, thirdly there would be a desire, then you could, the gas turbines from Ukraine were replaced after all, but with a desire it’s a bit tight, here I agree with you.
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              Even Trump will make them buy their gas, expensively, busting Gazprom with its "flows" and no one will do anything

              Oh, Colleague, do not hurt her nonsense, Trampadur forced the Psheks to buy their expensive shale gas, naturally chocolate mattresses, the Psheks amused their national pride and arrogance and nothing more, like they would be a gas hub, well, maybe someday lol but exactly up to the moment when Nord Stream 2 comes into operation. You do not need to consider the Germans fool That’s where the gas hub shines and, naturally, billions of dollars in profit. Gazprom, too, will not be left out.
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              And any garbage that Western capitalists will not work at a loss there does not mean anything - otherwise sanctions would not have led

              Well, it means they work, since Merkel had a fight with Trump laughing hi
              1. Stirbjorn
                Stirbjorn 12 July 2017 11: 47
                +4
                Quote: vovanpain
                Ooh Colleague, do not hurt her nonsense, Trampadur forced the Psheks to buy their expensive shale gas, naturally chocolate mattresses, the Psheks amused their national pride and arrogance and nothing more, like they would be a gas hub, well, maybe someday but exactly until that moment when the Nord Stream 2 goes into operation. You don’t have to count the Germans. So they’ll get a gas hub and, naturally, billions of dollars in profit. Gazprom will not be left out.

                Dear Vladimir, I’ll just remind you how the USA bent Germany recently
                [Interfax news agency, 31.01.2017/425/XNUMX, "The United States will force Deutsche Bank to pay for money laundering from Russia": the New York City Department of Financial Services ordered the German Deutsche Bank (DB) to pay $ XNUMX million in money laundering fines.
                The agency published a document stating that illegal schemes ("mirror transactions") were conducted through the DB, through which $ 10 billion was laundered in offices in Moscow, London and New York. For several years, the bank had the opportunity to detect, investigate and terminate these schemes, but management ignored them. - Box K.ru]
                According to Reuters, the German bank agreed to pay $ 425 million for illegal transactions, which in 2011-2015 allowed to withdraw $ 10 billion from Russia. Another $ 200 million for "suspicious activity" with Deutsche Bank intends to recover the British financial supervisory authority.

                Volkswagen (VW) will have to pay US $ 14,7 billion. This amount will cost the concern a settlement of the scandal with manipulations based on environmental tests. This is the largest amount of compensation in the history of the automotive industry, writes The Wall Street Journal. The company also has to invest $ 10 billion to reinstall in sold cars equipment that underestimates emissions, as well as to buy such cars from owners.
                Volkswagen agreed and put up $ 2 billion in funds engaged in green energy, and $ 2,7 billion in compensation for harmful emissions.

                Well, for a snack, Trump billed Merkel for $ 375 billion for NATO services in recent years - and everything is justified there (2%), and not just bent fingers. So I wouldn’t count on the Germans like that, it’s not for nothing that Novak complained yesterday
                The head of the Ministry of Energy of the Russian Federation, Alexander Novak, called the actions of the European Commission on Nord Stream-2 “outright sabotage” due to interference by the European Union executive body in commercial negotiations.
                1. vovanpain
                  vovanpain 12 July 2017 12: 32
                  +6
                  Quote: Stirbjorn
                  Well, for a snack, Trump billed Merkel for $ 375 billion for NATO services in recent years - and everything is justified there (2%), and not just bent fingers. T

                  And no one Michael’s Colleague believes that striped rags bend their fingers just like that. 2% of this was laid down in Trump’s election speeches and the VW shook the Monkey sad I myself will not flog nonsense either under the slogan Merkel does not give up, especially since she barks with Trump precisely because of finances.
                  Quote: Stirbjorn
                  So I wouldn’t count on the Germans like that,

                  In this world, it’s hard for Mikhail to count on anyone except himself, but as he wrote in the first comment
                  Quote: vovanpain
                  , it’s a little tight with desire, here I agree with you.

                  But we can produce it ourselves, in addition to aircraft engines and ship subjects, Rybinsk also makes GTD110. There are also Gas Turbines, but they can be in a situation with General Electric, as with Siemens, and as far as I remember, turbines produce less power there. And according to Siemens and other sanctions, he also wrote in the first comment that this is all a pure policy and that the chain of intermediaries is just lengthening and the price of the final product increases. Best regards, Mikhail. hi
                  1. Stirbjorn
                    Stirbjorn 12 July 2017 13: 00
                    +4
                    Quote: vovanpain
                    But we can produce it ourselves, in addition to aircraft engines and ship subjects, Rybinsk also makes GTD110. There are also Gas Turbines, but they can be in a situation with General Electric, as with Siemens, and as far as I remember, turbines produce less power there. GTD110.
                    if anything, I categorically want such high-tech products, such as engines and turbines, to be manufactured with us, or at least with maximum localization, so as not to depend on Europeans, or on Chinese, or on Americans hi drinks
          2. gridasov
            gridasov 12 July 2017 10: 42
            +2
            Russia has more chances to produce fundamentally new and orders of magnitude more efficient turbines of any dimension and application. Simply, the country's leadership in charge of the development of science and technology should study the discoveries and inventions of individual non-systemic scientists more closely. Once again, it is probably worth recalling that the most outstanding discoveries were made by individuals. Institutions and industries only adapted inventions to the interests of the country.
            1. tamnun
              tamnun 12 July 2017 11: 51
              +3
              Quote: gridasov
              Russia has more chances to produce fundamentally new and orders of magnitude more efficient turbines of any dimension and application. .

              chatter of an amateur.
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 12 July 2017 12: 11
                +4
                From the fact that you do not understand the essence of the issue and disrespectful of what has been said, the thing does not change. Let's essentially if you want to understand something, so you don’t show your illiteracy later. I can justify you that modern turbines are built fundamentally not logical and therefore not effective. I can show the calculation methodology and parameters. But only within the limits of the reasonable dissemination of information on the Internet. And here is what you can, in order to understand and to conduct a dialogue
                1. tamnun
                  tamnun 12 July 2017 14: 45
                  0
                  Quote: gridasov
                  From the fact that you do not understand the essence of the issue and disrespectful of what has been said, the thing does not change. Let's essentially if you want to understand something, so you don’t show your illiteracy later. I can justify you that modern turbines are built fundamentally not logical and therefore not efficients. I can show the calculation methodology and parameters. But only within reason distribution of information on the Internet. And here is what you can, in order to understand and to conduct a dialogue



                  Well, here is another unrecognized genius - Gridasov.
                  If you are so smart, what is so poor?
                  About the Mask - I heard
                  about Jobs, Geytse or Zuckerberg - heard - about Gridasov?
                  No, I have not heard.
                  1. gridasov
                    gridasov 12 July 2017 15: 11
                    +4
                    What kind of poverty are you talking about? If you are about money, then this is only a tool for empowerment. And I have everything I need. Therefore, on the contrary, I aspire to asceticism, so as not to relax too much. And to wander, you know it’s ridiculous. As the saying goes, you can’t drive one booty on ten cars, and only those who strive for something and live with dreams of a goal get pleasure. But this goal is also in the process algorithm. . So, the ability to live humanly, alas, is not given to everyone. . Moreover, the world is not built by formulas. You should notice this one!
                    1. gridasov
                      gridasov 12 July 2017 15: 18
                      0
                      Let me add it. that you shouldn’t hear or mention Gridasov in vain. You think about the idea and the meaning of what is positioned.
          3. Paranoid50
            Paranoid50 12 July 2017 10: 42
            +3
            Quote: tamnun
            I somehow have the idea that for the sake of Russia Siemens will not beat pots with the EU

            I would venture to suggest that this is a desire transformed into thought ... And this greatly interferes with objective assessment. yes As for the "pots": the second (if not the third) year, the German business (large and very large) simply puts on any restrictions if they conflict with this very business. Initially, this process was of a "partisan" nature, but time passed, and now almost open contacts are being made with representatives of the Bundes-business. And, by the way, filing a “lawsuit” in a Moscow court is a blatant mockery of all the restrictions that are sometimes accompanied by judges in the Hague, Strasbourg and, of course, in the main court of Europe, Kiev-Pechersky. And as for the independent production of turbines - do not worry, everything will be. hi
      2. ZAV69
        ZAV69 12 July 2017 09: 39
        +5
        Siemens will leave the Russian market? Not funny. It is easy to tear the market, entering it will be problematic. I don’t think that Siemens is direct and the turn of those who are thirsty is worth ordering something.
        1. tamnun
          tamnun 12 July 2017 11: 54
          +1
          Quote: ZAV69
          Siemens will leave the Russian market? Not funny. It is easy to tear the market, entering it will be problematic. I don’t think that Siemens is direct and the turn of those who are thirsty is worth ordering something.

          Does the shift have competitors?
          I don’t know anyone other than the general electric (in the segment of gas turbines for power plants)
          can you tell me. who else produces .to 350 MW. direct-flow or with an additional boiler for exhaust gases?
      3. Roman Skomorokhov
        Roman Skomorokhov 12 July 2017 12: 52
        +2
        Quote: tamnun
        It is quite likely that Siemens will simply turn off cooperation with Russia and this will end the matter.


        Hahaha, Laugh! And two small factory near Voronezh where? Give us?
        Norm, it goes like this.
        1. Paranoid50
          Paranoid50 12 July 2017 13: 40
          +1
          Quote: Banshee
          And where are two factories near Voronezh? Give us?


          Hello Roman. hi Duc, “Siemens” is not the first time to nationalize. laughing Again in a spiral? Well, it seems that our Baltic counterpart has some special knowledge on this subject. 1917-2017; 1940 -... Although it’s better not worth it, we drove through. Let the other "occupationists" now poking around there.
        2. tamnun
          tamnun 12 July 2017 14: 48
          0
          Quote: Banshee
          Quote: tamnun
          It is quite likely that Siemens will simply turn off cooperation with Russia and this will end the matter.

          Hahaha, Laugh! And two small factory near Voronezh where? Give us?
          Norm, it goes like this.

          General Motors and Volkswagen (in my opinion) left St. Petersburg in connection with the sanctions
          Well, and how are you? Stayed ?
          Ask what is being released or is it working at all?
          1. KaPToC
            KaPToC 12 July 2017 16: 05
            +1
            If the factory is just a screwdriver assembly, then it doesn’t need to be fucked.
          2. north
            north 12 July 2017 18: 33
            +1
            General Motors did not leave, but was mothballed, something like this in the summer he promised to start work. Volkswagen group.ru. It works in Russia, in Kaluga engines are released, a whole "stable" is being exported, and cars and engines are exported to Europe. Everything is lost. To shreds, etc.
          3. bk316
            bk316 12 July 2017 19: 51
            +3
            St. Petersburg in connection with the sanctions left General Motors and Volkswagen (in my opinion)

            Do not write about what you do not know, GM left due to poor financial results and even worse forecasts. GM made a mistake with the forecasts and is now trying to get into the market back, but there are already Koreans.
            Volkswagen did not go anywhere. But his Koreans are also crowded.
        3. Captain Nemo
          Captain Nemo 13 July 2017 01: 16
          0
          One is already: Siemens Transformers)))) By the way, a beautiful modern full-cycle plant, quite competing in price with Russian manufacturers.)) And the second is purely on paper.)))
        4. xxx3
          xxx3 19 July 2017 21: 29
          0
          Quote: Banshee
          rzhunimagu!

          Have you noticed oats in the manger?
          Quote: Banshee
          And where are two factories near Voronezh? Give us?

          Yeah. Here you are. And pay extra money.
          Passion for freebies, it is immortal.
      4. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 13 July 2017 01: 31
        0
        160 years of work, and suddenly leave? Leaving the market to Americans, Koreans and Chinese? Do not tell my slippers)))
        1. Walanin
          Walanin 17 July 2017 22: 53
          0
          Better to leave the Russian market than to lose the world. What do you think Siemens will choose in case of problems with sanctions?
  6. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 12 July 2017 08: 57
    0
    Thirst for profit, has no limits! Then we have up to a quarter of foreign investment coming through the Bahamas and Bermuda. They say Amer capital is leaking. laughing
  7. Whisper
    Whisper 12 July 2017 09: 37
    +6
    Quote: 210ox
    I partially agree with you .. But only at our enterprise for the processing of sunflower in the Krasnodar Territory, the automated process control system is completely "Simenovskaya" .. Could we also supply the domestic one, well, the same "Aries" .. No, the owner is charitable all German .. The truth runs the risk of not getting a single rusty nail now ..


    Symatics (industrial controllers manufactured by Siemens) are installed not only in the Krasnodar Territory. They go everywhere. With a high degree of probability we are in this direction, if not zero, then close to it. Operator panels, soft start, frequency converters, controllers, connectors, all this was bought and bought in other countries. Hundreds of plants are needed for these lines, we do not have them. And I think it will not be in the next 10 years.
    Yes, we do not even have household circuit breakers of our own ...... by the way.
    1. vik669
      vik669 12 July 2017 09: 57
      +1
      By the way, and we have RUSNANO JSC - and no one thought of that anymore and we have something even funnier!
    2. ukoft
      ukoft 12 July 2017 12: 16
      0
      Well, simatic, there is all the iron from Taiwan. the main thing is software. the same thing for the frequency response, soft starts and controllers. In Germany or the United States, in most cases, the word electronics is imported to the Far East. and processors too. here software is yes. your own.
      About industrial circuit breakers, so there from the only switching high-temperature contacts and arcing chambers, vacuum or SFXNUMX ones are special.

      Regarding gas turbines, there are not so many manufacturers in the world: Siemens General Electric, Japanese. all. the rest is either licensed or not. including tm and china. if someone appears, he is bought by the above monopolists. but many offices for overhaul and commissioning of turbines. cheap and cheerful and maintenance is much more economical.
      1. Aingof
        Aingof 13 July 2017 08: 56
        0
        Well, as the sanctions were introduced and the dollar grew more than domestic, they began to buy steel, the same ARIES, many firms for the production of microprocessor relay protection units. True, they are like brothers like each other laughing .
  8. trophy
    trophy 12 July 2017 09: 59
    +5
    It is necessary to deal with economics and industry rather than repeating the spell "the market itself will regulate." If you are already in a pose, then you need to move inside the country. But unfortunately, the current liberals in power do not need a damn thing, they already live well. And GDP is far from I.V. Stalin in order to demand from this Kodla either start working or strangle himself. So, all kinds of siemens with proctors and gambols of Russia will be put in a rush. We survived, even a shitty European Commission to send to ....... there is no one in the country.
    1. ukoft
      ukoft 12 July 2017 12: 19
      +2
      there is such a proverb: what you, such and your rulers.
      therefore, a comparison of Putin-Stalin needs to be extrapolated to our grandfathers-we. look in the mirror. For starters, stop giving bribes on the road, littering, watch over the upbringing of children. start small. you look and Putin will become Stalin.
    2. bk316
      bk316 12 July 2017 19: 54
      +2
      And GDP is far from I.V. Stalin-and thank God ....
  9. Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 12 July 2017 10: 01
    +5
    As a person who worked in the Russian Siemens, I can say that the so-called. “export clauses” that prevent the resale of certain equipment to sanctions countries, as is the case in the DPRK. Good will of the buyer to sign a contract on these conditions, or not. The one who convinced the leadership that the Germans would swallow such a hoax is simply stupid people. Further simpler. If the manufacturer is German Siemens, then our "hit" and will remain without installation supervision and service, which is equivalent to throwing cars in the trash. If the securities producer is a Russian company, then options are possible, but again, you need to look at the chain of contracts for those same export reservations. And Siemens has been working in Russia for 160 years and no one will go anywhere. In some ways, compatriots make the equipment no worse, but in something much worse, unfortunately. The turbines for generation we have conversion aircraft engines, specially designed behind the cordon. With the appropriate resource.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 12 July 2017 10: 15
      +4
      Quote: Captain Nemo
      If the manufacturer is German Siemens, then our "hit" and will remain without installation supervision and service, which is equivalent to throwing cars in the trash. If the producer of securities of the joint venture, which is a Russian company, then options are possible, but again, you need to look at the chain of contracts for those same export reservations

      As far as I understand from numerous, but very incomplete articles on the internet, our joint venture almost resold the turbines to a subsidiary, it made some minor repairs, and now these used turbines were brought to Crimea. That is, our Siemens experts initially knew that a focus with a direct ferry would not work, and took measures of a technical, and on the basis of this, legal nature.
      A fair decision of the arbitral tribunal could be considered that those goods for which a contract was concluded after July 2014 should be included in the “sanctioned products”.
    2. ukoft
      ukoft 12 July 2017 12: 22
      +1
      but there are such specialists and offices. maintenance and commissioning. I personally know. they have certificates from siemens. with that extended. in the first few years. then smuggling.
  10. Love is
    Love is 12 July 2017 10: 10
    +2
    Do not be boobies. There are no fools in Germany and in Simens. Let the media squeak. This is their bread. And the Germans in Russia have their own interest for a long time. You can still recall Marx: “Provide 10%, and capital agrees to any use, at 20% it becomes lively, at 50% it is positively ready to break its head, at 100% it violates all human laws, with 300% there is no such crime for which he would not have risked, at least under pain of the gallows. "
    1. Music
      Music 12 July 2017 15: 07
      +1
      GM plant under Peter remind? Had let out. Siemens can take the same route
      1. Awaz
        Awaz 13 July 2017 09: 16
        0
        Duck LM was not closed due to sanctions, that is, it was preserved. Only on economic issues. In addition, there is talk of opening again ....
  11. gridasov
    gridasov 12 July 2017 10: 25
    +1
    Russia should and can become a titular country. It’s just that you need to look not at other countries in the high-tech areas of industry and science, but to look at a goal that, as truth, is always above personal ambitions and levels of comparison with others. It must be understood that in the development of civilization only the future will determine who is stronger and who is more resilient. Therefore, turbines need not just to be copied, but to seek and implement reasonably progressive products and technologies for their application themselves. There must be people who advocate for the future of the people and the nation, and who understand that the balance of power in the world arena is a very short period, and therefore you need to be only and only ahead. And all this depends on scientific and other achievements in advanced fields of knowledge.
  12. ver_
    ver_ 12 July 2017 11: 12
    0
    Quote: ZAV69
    Yes, they gave up these European companies ...... What are they doing so exclusive that can not be bought elsewhere? Moreover, most of their products are already in China with a European nameplate.
    we still cannot build turbines ourselves, says a lot.

    And what is the need for these turbines that we had to do them ourselves? We basically have all the energy working the old fashioned way, on steam turbines, initially most of the boilers were even sharpened for coal. It’s cheaper to transfer old stations to gas turbines to build a new station. Here in Sevastopol they built a new one. And they would not have managed to make them from scratch in 2 years. The development and launch cycle of such a piece of iron for 5 years is no less. There ship just did, have not even experienced yet. And this is taking into account the fact that there is some experience. And energy of such power .... There should be a niokra ... But is it necessary? Although of course it doesn’t hurt.

    ... well, they will put dvigun from drying, or in an instant - as far as I know - many years ago it was written about this - power plants for cities ..
    1. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 13 July 2017 01: 19
      0
      Do you know the engine life of aircraft turbines? I think not, otherwise they would not have written such garbage
      1. Vax
        Vax 13 July 2017 07: 27
        0
        There is a decrease in speed for cruising operating modes and the turbines work 20k + hours without repair, another thing is important, such turbines give low power and they will need to be put 5-10 pieces to provide the necessary power. Plus, they are not steam turbines, I think that there is also a requirement for heating water in the winter heating period, and this is exactly what an aircraft turbine will not do
  13. sapporo1959
    sapporo1959 12 July 2017 11: 31
    +1
    You can certainly do your own thing, but you involuntarily recall the years of communism. I don’t say anything about spacecraft and moon rovers, but take a Zhiguli or Moskvich car and some vague doubts immediately begin to overcome your own ... Or maybe it only seems to me that way .... sya ... sya ... sya ...
  14. Shadow of darkness
    Shadow of darkness 12 July 2017 12: 27
    +3
    Many enterprises were sold to Siemens, including turbine plants. Now we are head over heels in their sanctions and even what we ourselves produce is produced by their companies. Long live privatization! Long live the open market! Hooray liberal economy! Glory to the great dollar! In the name of EBN, Chubais and the spirit of democracy! am
    1. Roman Skomorokhov
      Roman Skomorokhov 12 July 2017 12: 53
      -1
      Retseptic not share? I want it too ...
      1. Shadow of darkness
        Shadow of darkness 12 July 2017 14: 06
        0
        A recipe for what? Sales of enterprises? This is not for me, I did not sell them, for that I know many enterprises that after privatization suddenly became unprofitable and uncompetitive. As a result, even what we produced ourselves, we are now transporting from abroad. Western businessmen have no aspirations to move our technologies, as they sang during the EBN, but there are all possibilities to remove competitors.
        We will have many more such articles. A very real war is going on against Russia, while it is more economic, and at the top, they still don’t know whether to save money in the West, toli the state. If you surrender the state, they will trample, it will not bend under the West — you will spend the rest in Russia.
      2. xxx3
        xxx3 19 July 2017 21: 27
        0
        Quote: Banshee
        I want it too ...

        First you need to work hard and hard. Then, having already earned a lot of money, you can beg for recipes. And you can buy it.
        But sitting on all kinds of dubious sites, and scribbling all kinds of verbal garbage there, you won’t earn much.
    2. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 13 July 2017 01: 20
      0
      Rave. Who did they sell it to? And to whom else of the bourgeoisie what have they sold?
  15. RED PARTISAN
    RED PARTISAN 12 July 2017 12: 53
    +1
    We must do our own thing, and not rely on the market. You can’t design it yourself from scratch - copy imported equipment. The Chinese brazenly copy everything, from Rolex watches to fighter engines. It turns out that not everything can be done with them, but the progress of their science and industry is visible even to the blind. Let Russian turbines have less power, efficiency and resource, but this is offset by their lower cost and greater ease of use. Soviet products were often slightly inferior to their Western counterparts in some aspects, but they had a significant advantage - they were produced by us.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 12 July 2017 14: 07
      +1
      You can from scratch! Russia has always been distinguished by talents and outstanding people. Including our development is ready to wait until "the cock pecks something." Algorithms for the development and improvement of turbines clearly show the direction of the path. Scientists simply do not have the courage to admit that sometimes you just need to drop everything and start from scratch. The past is not going anywhere anyway. The main thing . so that any idea is justified and you can talk openly and frankly.
  16. Winnie the Pooh
    Winnie the Pooh 12 July 2017 13: 58
    0
    With this approach, another business will refuse to cooperate with Russia.
    1. faiver
      faiver 12 July 2017 14: 32
      +2
      and another will agree ... hi
  17. iouris
    iouris 12 July 2017 14: 34
    +1
    Actually, this is an act of aggression against the Russian Federation and the economic genocide of the Crimean population. Or do they believe that Crimea can exist without electricity and water?
  18. Winnie the Pooh
    Winnie the Pooh 12 July 2017 14: 54
    +1
    Although I personally try to avoid Siemens products. During the war, they used the labor of prisoners from concentration camps.
    1. Tsoy
      Tsoy 12 July 2017 17: 46
      0
      And IBM is the same computer office, its first capital made on the sale of tabs Hollerith in Nazi Germany. These are calculating machines, such as analog computers, on the basis of punched cards. They were used in the USA for counting the population, and the Germans for recounting the Jews in concentration camps.
    2. Simple
      Simple 12 July 2017 20: 22
      0
      Quote: vinipuh
      Although I personally try to avoid Siemens products.


      Refuse to buy anything made in the USA.
    3. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 13 July 2017 01: 21
      0
      And don't drive Volkswagen products?
    4. iouris
      iouris 13 July 2017 11: 02
      +1
      I don’t buy Siemens turbines either.
  19. Music
    Music 12 July 2017 15: 05
    +1
    Just two boats, although paid, were on the territory of the enemy. But the turbines on ours.
  20. Prutkov
    Prutkov 12 July 2017 15: 16
    +1
    Quote: siberalt
    While our liberal government will work for our loved ones, and not for the state, little will change. The system needs to be changed. hi

    We tried it already at 91m. If not enough, then I suggest applying for experience in Ukraine. There, over 24 years, THREE times “changed the system” - in 91, 2004 and 2014. So contact us - we will help. But in essence, show in the world at least one country that did everything on its own.
  21. Irkutsk layman
    Irkutsk layman 12 July 2017 15: 39
    0
    We launch our turbines.
  22. Lexa-149
    Lexa-149 12 July 2017 15: 59
    0
    I’m also surprised! How so?! Kaluga Turbine Plant is without orders, and we are buying something from the Germans!
    1. Rock_n_roll
      Rock_n_roll 12 July 2017 20: 15
      0
      Kaluga does not know how to make such turbines. Here Rybinsk could still try. At one time, when Chinese aircraft engines were blue there, the idea was to make mobile gas turbine installations for gas and oil production on their basis, which would work on any fuel. But Gazprom did not like it.
  23. Vladimir Mamkin
    Vladimir Mamkin 12 July 2017 18: 23
    0
    Wait and see how it all ends
  24. sapporo1959
    sapporo1959 12 July 2017 18: 44
    +1
    And in general it’s interesting, and who is planning on all this rubbish with these foreign turbines? Didn’t they know that there would be problems with the Germans about this? After all, could something else be organized in terms of electricity supply? There are a lot of commanders, but things are not very good in the country. They didn’t give me five thousand for retirement as they are now living in Belarus. They told me to stay there for now, otherwise there is no money. But if half of these planners and commanders are dispersed like ballast, then maybe there would be no shame for a country in which there is no money ...
    1. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 13 July 2017 01: 29
      0
      Thought -Avos will pass
  25. trahterist
    trahterist 12 July 2017 18: 47
    0
    and all because Bolt’s business laid down different sanctions-uyanktsii.
  26. Whisper
    Whisper 12 July 2017 20: 59
    0
    Quote: Captain Nemo
    As a person who worked in the Russian Siemens.


    I sincerely wish Siemens to leave our country as soon as possible.
    But unfortunately you work well and you won’t leave anywhere, well, if you don’t leave, of course.
    1. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 13 July 2017 01: 25
      0
      You will be surprised, but Russian manufacturers are catching up. I will reveal the terrible secret of German business in Russia. Unlike other European countries, the Germans do not withdraw profit, almost completely reinvesting it in the expansion of production. No, of course, they earn money from Russian "daughters", but their enterprises in Russia are developing themselves rather than living on subsidies from the parent company
      1. Whisper
        Whisper 14 July 2017 08: 21
        +1
        I know it. Ordinary people do not see import substitution, but it is.
        They began to produce something with us. Italians and Germans more often began to fly with tenders, and that's great!
  27. Maximillian von Adelheid
    Maximillian von Adelheid 12 July 2017 20: 59
    0
    By the way, the diesel generators in the Kremlin are still German ... Even after WWII they were taken out ... lol
  28. Whisper
    Whisper 12 July 2017 21: 07
    0
    Quote: Love is
    And the Germans in Russia have their own interest for a long time.

    Yes, at one time they wanted to buy Electric Force with giblets, they didn’t give it well. In my opinion there only 25% belong to them. And would buy, so we would buy turbo and hydro generators from Siemens 15 times more expensive. And this is Sayano-Shuyenskaya, Bushehr, Tien-Wan, Kudam Kulam, Bureya, etc. If sold in the 90s, now we would be in slavery !!!
    Yes, and for the nuclear submarines we tried to make engines there.
    1. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 13 July 2017 01: 28
      0
      You are talking nonsense. If foreigners were not competitive in price, then no one would buy them now. Only for the name Siemens, Alstom, General Electric no one overpays with comparable quality.
      1. Whisper
        Whisper 14 July 2017 08: 22
        0
        did not understand what is my nonsense?
  29. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 13 July 2017 01: 15
    0
    Quote: AA17
    some people making crucial decisions for the country may even reach

    let it never "reach" ... not for that they sit at the top and make "fateful decisions"
  30. ver_
    ver_ 13 July 2017 03: 39
    0
    Quote: Captain Nemo
    Do you know the engine life of aircraft turbines? I think not, otherwise they would not have written such garbage

    ..and who doesn’t give - to derate by turns - it’s easy and simple and the engine life will be higher than the roof ..
  31. Vax
    Vax 13 July 2017 07: 17
    0
    You did not look well at Innoprom, in pavilion 3 a model of a steam turbine for a Moscow TPP is presented. And, judging by the answers of the young man, it is designed by our engineers
    1. ZAV69
      ZAV69 13 July 2017 09: 35
      0
      So this is steam. We did steam, give and will do. And then we’re talking about gas.
  32. Pavel pavel
    Pavel pavel 13 July 2017 09: 10
    0
    Quote: netslave
    You confuse gas turbines with steam ones. Power machines do not produce gas turbines. Like the Kaluga Turbine. Gas turbines are assembled at Perm Motors. And there is nothing more powerful than their GTU-25P with a nominal 25 MW, apparently, in our country.

    I can’t understand, why did everyone run into Siemens turbines then ?? !! We have excellent gas turbines in Perm, why not buy there, I won’t put my mind to it !!!!
    1. ZAV69
      ZAV69 13 July 2017 09: 59
      0
      They do. But small ones. Based on aircraft engines.
      1. lance
        lance 13 July 2017 12: 55
        0
        stupidity. make an order - there will be a result.
  33. NordUral
    NordUral 13 July 2017 10: 22
    +1
    So Crimea gives all of us a good fire ... incentive, so that in this case sanctions will turn Russia to good. That's just "effective managers" can again say their "weighty" word ...
    It’s time to gnaw these effective mouths, it’s high time.
    And how did Electric Power (and not only it) manage to make Siemens, while we sang tales about a happy market tomorrow? The country of frightened idiots.
    1. siege
      siege 14 July 2017 12: 24
      +1
      What does it mean how? 1991 - starting position for the destruction and ruin of the entire national industry! All! Electric power ... and the defense industry, and aircraft manufacturing, which itself died? And machine tool industry? And the weaving industry? Even oil and gas production ... It was not for nothing that the Americans screamed in the recent past about the infuriated gas station. They have already calculated everything, done everything so that Russia does not stand up. So many pests that were in the 90s ... not a single cartridge factory would have time to release as many cartridges for execution. But many of these pests, traitors, destroyers, now go to respected people ..., rustle loot ... important with puffed cheeks .. And do not say that we ourselves, that it’s itself, that it was impossible .. a complete lie! More precisely, we destroyed it ourselves, but under the strict guidance of the “elder brothers” from the West.
  34. lance
    lance 13 July 2017 13: 07
    0
    who said that the Germans produced turbines? they are produced in a joint venture. the necessary components can also be ordered not from Siemens, there would be political will. We have been working with Siemens for over 20 years. there was a period when they began to greet, switched to Mitsubishi. although more expensive, but several orders of magnitude more reliable. Simens cooled down and backtracked, now they are working calmly.
  35. uskrabut
    uskrabut 13 July 2017 13: 30
    +2
    I’m very interested here, why should Russia suddenly make excuses for some Siemens or Strasbourg with the Hague? These guys have repeatedly raked from Russia and the USSR for their aggression, they tried some people in Nuremberg, a bunch of agreements were signed so that the vanquished and the liberated knew their place and did not repeat historical mistakes. About freedom-loving Ukraine generally keep silent. Less need to listen to all this howl with a groan, to engage in their own economies, to do everything for the good of the Russians and Russia, without regard to all this screaming trash. And those who play along with them inside the country, to drive out of the country in their shorts, let their west wear and feed.
  36. Berkut24
    Berkut24 13 July 2017 14: 02
    +1
    At the same time, Siemens says that if it turns out, ...... the company will never supply anything to Russia again.

    And if Russia itself makes such a decision?
  37. ver_
    ver_ 13 July 2017 16: 36
    0
    Quote: Berkut24
    At the same time, Siemens says that if it turns out, ...... the company will never supply anything to Russia again.

    And if Russia itself makes such a decision?

    ..that means that they will carve themselves out as a non-commissioned officer widow ..
  38. ver_
    ver_ 14 July 2017 04: 03
    0
    Quote: Vax
    There is a decrease in speed for cruising operating modes and the turbines work 20k + hours without repair, another thing is important, such turbines give low power and they will need to be put 5-10 pieces to provide the necessary power. Plus, they are not steam turbines, I think that there is also a requirement for heating water in the winter heating period, and this is exactly what an aircraft turbine will not do

    ..I'm off topic, however:
    1. the turbine is able to rotate the generator
    2. turn water into steam (example - a blowtorch heats the kettle)
    3. the turbine is stationary on (the machine) —in the plane in flight there are enormous forces * supporting * the rotating elements - try to pick up a rotating gyroscope - it will not appear a little - a friend (navigator electrician) tried to pull out the incompletely stopped gyroscope of the compass on the submarine ( refused and there was no time to wait for a complete stop) - ..he found so many corners, khe, in the * room * with his sides .. -threw it -Mom do not grieve -and * let him out of the hands was -low .. .. *
    This means that turbine wear will be less than on an airplane.
  39. The Wizard of Healthy
    The Wizard of Healthy 14 July 2017 07: 08
    0
    http://www.tpe.ru/news/3626

    November 10 2016

    The Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia for St. Petersburg and the Leningrad Region conducts a preliminary investigation in relation to SIEMENS GAS TURBINE TECHNOLOGIES LLC on the fact of non-fulfillment of contractual obligations to Technopromexport
    The cause of the preliminary investigation was significant material damage caused by SIEMENS TECHNOLOGIES OF GAS TURBINES LLC to Technopromexport. The damage is associated with the deliberate failure to fulfill contractual obligations regarding the supply of gas turbine equipment intended for the construction of generation facilities by Technopromexport in Taman (Krasnodar Territory).

    The Siemens had no choice :)
  40. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 14 July 2017 09: 25
    +1
    Well, let TWO JURISTS seated at the very top for 17 years and say why we don’t have our own turbines, but there’s a hut - a reading room in honor of the EBNC for 7 billion rubles, so long as they set priorities, these will be there at the top.
    1. siege
      siege 14 July 2017 12: 10
      0
      This "hut" in general must be destroyed, because it destroys the state simply by its presence. Or it is necessary to arrange an exposition with Stalin nearby, or even inside, and put up a monument of the same size at the entrance. Let them think ... what have they done ....
  41. 3vs
    3vs 14 July 2017 09: 35
    +1
    Let's all go to ...
    This is the Russian land where the equipment needs to be installed, where it will stand!
    With the same success, sanctions against the Kaliningrad region can be introduced,
    which, perhaps, in the near future they will try to do ...
  42. Ivan Medvedev
    Ivan Medvedev 14 July 2017 09: 37
    +1
    So, perhaps, we will determine the role of Yeltsin in the history of Russia and stop spending money on his deification?
  43. siege
    siege 14 July 2017 12: 06
    +1
    The first and main thing to do is to get out of the WTO. Second, review the customs tariff. The truth here is our TS, but I think everyone will agree on key positions. And then to regulate the imported competitiveness. Of course, this must be done, in parallel with the preparation of an appropriate production base on its own territory, and the conclusion of relevant contracts, where a condition must necessarily indicate that the products manufactured in the Russian Federation are Russian and cannot be considered otherwise, do not want to play by these rules, good riddance, there are others.
  44. ver_
    ver_ 14 July 2017 12: 58
    0
    Quote: AA17
    Dear, inkass_98. I think if there are a few more such problems with the equipment supplied to us from abroad (for example: Boeings and spare parts for them will cease to be sold to us), then it may come to some people who make crucial decisions for the country that it’s necessary to develop their own industry. How many modern industries could be launched with the money allocated for the construction of the Zenit Arena stadium, etc. Here they are the consequences of the activities of Gaidar with his motto: "Why do it yourself when you can buy in the West." There is no Gaidar, but his teaching, "Gaidarism," lives on and is steadily promoted by his "witnesses."

    ... the best educator - 9 grams .. - not a lot of material costs, but a huge educational effect for those who are in the subject ..
  45. Valery Timofeev
    Valery Timofeev 14 July 2017 19: 30
    0
    The 100500th signal gives. And all the steam is a whistle. We continue to listen and observe the signals.
  46. African
    African 15 July 2017 12: 43
    +1
    They would buy it in China, no one would say a word, but the deal was held in such a way as to provoke a trial with a cool European company. Temnik, it’s getting dark, in general it’s getting dark .. Let there be light in the Crimea.
  47. Kashchenko
    Kashchenko 16 July 2017 10: 32
    0
    Crimea and the events associated with it made it possible to think about a lot. Unfortunately, the authorities did not learn any lessons from some events. Moreover, they continue to act in contrast to common sense .. It’s a pity, sincerely sorry that ....
  48. Cuba
    Cuba 17 July 2017 08: 10
    0
    Quote: inkass_98
    It is impossible not to agree with the fact that "ssanktsii" give a good impetus to the development of technologies in the country. This is good and right, too many industries have been left outside the Russian Federation, hoping for cooperation and "fraternal cooperation." Whatever the turbines, it was said that they had been modernized in Russia under the conditions of the installation site, i.e. The final product was own production. And the words "Siemens", that they will "never and nothing" be delivered to Russia, is simply a bluff. The vacated space will immediately take, for example, "Bosch" (relatively speaking), or someone from the Chinese.

    A holy place is never empty! .. in the world of capital, it’s not customary to be scattered by buyers — competitors will quickly turn up in warning, so all these are words, words!
  49. Sivasa
    Sivasa 18 July 2017 10: 16
    0
    Out of 4 turbines, 2 were delivered. Both are not fully equipped. Carry out on-site installation was a joint venture with Siemens. The story is still far away.