Military Review

NASA Space Fishermen (Robert Winglee Annealed)


For creativity Robert Winglee (click to view full face) I have been following, perhaps, since the time of the alma mater. Interest has been since the publication Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion (M2P2). An interesting and enthusiastic (I would even say, very enthusiastic) person who sometimes completely forgets his basic knowledge gained at the university.

At one time I even squeezed an article on this topic: MagBeam: plasma swindle.
Nadys read about his new development (and new hobby) "Europa Kinetic Ice Penetrator System for Hyper Velocity Instrument University of Washington, 2016 Committee: Robert Winglee & Carl Knowlen" and immediately remembered the article Cosmic Concept: Going Fishing on Other Planets. in popmech.

News already with the "teddy", but maybe someone will be interested. Moreover, NASA has not yet canceled it. funding. As he writes "Popular Mechanics-USA":
Because of the exorbitant cost, only a few missions, including lunar Apollo, were able to deliver samples of extraterrestrial material (soil) to Earth. One scientist wants to change this paradoxical situation, and proposes the idea of ​​a spacecraft with a variation of fishing rods, which can get soil material from a planet or an asteroid without actually landing.
And who is this hero? Again, we know the inventor of plasma winds, Professor Robert Winglee!

Robert Winglee, Chairman of the Division of Earth Science and Other Space Sciences in University of Washington, says that missions - those that deliver soil materials from other astronomical bodies to Earth, give very little information about the structure of the Universe because of their small amount and, as a rule, because of the huge costs.
The spacecraft must land on the surface of another planet (satellite, asteroid, comet), take a sample, take off and deliver it to Earth.
“This does not mean that there are no such technologies”- says Winglee: “This means that the cost of such an operation is quite high.”

Winglee and his students hope that they have developed a system (technology) that can dramatically reduce the cost of extracting a sample of alien soil by exclusion from the mission of the landing stage on the studied extraterrestrial object.

Like this. No more, no less. I focus on the attention of the reader.
A team of students under the direction of Dr. Winglee is conducting intensive research on the development of a specific pribluda for a spacecraft, which could, flying past a planet or an asteroid, without actually landing, shoot at the surface penetratortied to the spacecraft cable. The interplanetary station, obtained as a result of the introduction of a planetoid into the crust, must take back (pull the probe into the cable) on board and return to Earth.

At first glance, everything is cool and reasonable. Tests on the ground were made, the desert ground, a log, ice and other improvised and pastures were shelled.

NASA Space Fishermen (Robert Winglee Annealed)

Organized whole groups and consortia (UCL DEPARTMENT OF SPACE & CLIMATE PHYSICS PLANETARY SCIENCE GROUP) + there is a project Europa Kinetic Ice Penetrator (EKIP).

As soon as core punches tormented them, the bottoms of the salt lake were hollowed out and, of course, strained students (postgraduates) deserters.

Work is in full swing. Money flows. US Federal Reserve Works NASA is mastering budgets.

In general, the initial procedure of penetration is as follows:
The interplanetary station, flying up to Europe (or past flying), produces penetration, or, in my interpretation, “throws a fishing tackle”.

The researchers conducted their tests initially at the sites with "soft soil": the bottom of a dried lake in the desert Black Rock (Nevada), and are about to prepare to move to "hard" soils China Beachwhere they predict to encounter difficult types of volcanic soils - very close in composition to those that can be encountered on asteroids.

If their projectiles survive the impact of breaking through the earth, cherish dreams in Washington, then this technology can be launched within the next ten years.

“I think we will either master it or break it.” said winglee. “We would like to know how it affects the condition of the drill Mach 2 speed at his entrance into solid ground. "
Quote: Winglee
"I think it’s a break it," Winglee said. "We would like to demonstrate how to make a Mach 2 Impact of what you might imagine. "

Consciously concentrating on the use of the term “Mach 2 speed”! I am mischievous. I would like to talk about the use of professor and manager (Department of Earth and Space Sciences, University of Washington, WA 98195-1310, Director Washington NASA Space Grant Consortium) Robert M. Winglee concepts Mach numbers for practically without the atmospheric satellite of Jupiter (single lines of the atomic O2 and H2, the atmospheric pressure on the surface of Europe is approximately equal to 0,1 μPa (but not more than one micropascal), or 10 ^ –12 atm) and at a temperature of not + 20 ° C).

For your information:
1. Chamber pressure setting for thermonuclear reactions up to 10 ^ -11 atm;
2. Atmospheric pressure at an altitude of 120 km above the Earth approximately 2,67 * 10 ^ -3 atm;

Vacuum, engineering space — we are on “Europe” far beyond the Karman line (which has never happened there). What are Mach numbers and "Reynolds criteria"?

In an interview, he spoke about promising speeds under 650 m / s. Anyway. Eternal история about "managers" and engineers, "holes" and holes. Grants are received (as with "Plasma cheating"). "Life is a success."

Innovators tormented various construction materials: aluminum, composites, steel. Even IT was performed by some cool program for all the “calculations”:

Europa here has nothing to do with Europe as part of Eurasia and not part of the EEC.
Europe This article is a satellite in the Jupiter system (the sixth satellite) - or Jupiter II.

For review “Futurology from RenTV”. No, you do not kick me for the fact that I do not rumble about the case, a sort of retrograde from Roscosmos! Just my spent years studying and earning my daily bread generate "Voice in the wilderness".

I will try to justify my senile whining:
1. "Penetrator" - this is, in fact, an analogue of the construction dowel in symbiosis with the line from guns for spearfishingor vice versa: union of a gun, a tench and a dowel (instead of a jail). Enter something, he in the body of Europe will certainly enter the ice Europe especially.
And what about “getting out” and “pulling it with a cable”, and even from a spacecraft rushing past a target with V = 1,68 km / s (minimum), I am afraid there will be significant problems. Of course: you can use pyrozapals (the main thing is that they do not work when the planetoid bark is broken through) to release a dynamic drill, however ... “I am again tormented by vague doubts” ™.

My experience of using dowel-pistols and rifles for spearfishing is outraged and screams: "nothing will come of it." Namely: warp, pereklinit, temperature deformations again (when passing BOPS through armor (bronestal) flows (and BOPS flows the same).

In general, the whole “idea” proposed by Winglee & Co. Looks utterly strange. Analog: “Uprooting a stump with a car”.

Only without support already. Apparently the professor did not read the classics:

Robert used a jackhammer, crowbar and a shovel to release the core penetrator:

And how to pick out this anchor interplanetary probe? Lever? How to rely on emptiness? What is there (at the University of Washington) thinking about the orbital speed and the reserve Еп = Ек + Ер? I think so - either the spacecraft will be attracted to Europe (Asteroid), or (if a miracle happens), Europe will be attracted to the spacecraft.

2. "And on the goat fig bayan?"

What do we know about Jupiter II (I cite Europe, as there is no point in talking about other asteroids)? A lot (since Copernicus already a lot):
Orbital speed (v) = 49 476,1 km / h

Acceleration of gravity at the equator (g) = 1,315 m / s²
Second cosmic velocity (v2) = 2,026 km / s

Moon for comparison.
Second cosmic velocity for the Earth (v2) = 11,2 km / s. The spacecraft, flying up to the side of Jupiter, and beautiful Europe need to slow down (or rather, first equalize the speed and its spacecraft vector with the orbital speed and the vector of Europe, and then slow down). The first cosmic velocity (v1) for Europe = 1,68 km / s. Approach to Jupiter (relative to the Sun) under 11 km / s.

I still remind "Voyager-2":

Those. Vconvergence= 10-10,5 km / s must be repaid to 1,68 km / s, synchronize the orbital speed and rotational speed (13,73 km / s), reach the equatorial orbit of Europe, fire the drill-penetrator, pick it out from Europe, drag it back (sp. .1) and develop a second space to return to Earth.

I will not be bothered to think that it is more profitable in terms of weight: the fuel supply for landing on the practically airless Jupiter satellite and starting from it, or
penetrator + solid propellant rocket motor for accelerating it to “2Mach” + cable + electric motor for its coiling (lifting) + stabilizers of the bay rotation (dampers, stoppers, etc.) + engines for orbit correction and correction +gyrodin+ what else I forgot (WITHOUT IT - well, no way: there will be a ricochet, the cable will break, the orbital speed will fall)
IMHO: A RESERVE OF FUEL COMPONENTS for landing and taking off from a celestial body (g = 1,315 m / s²) - will be easier.

The conclusion is obvious: quietly sit down, drill (or pick with a scraper), place in a container, take off, give impetus to the v2 set and deliver the cargo to Earth.

Reference: the surface of Europe consists of ice (water and sulfur with Io, which smokes nearby) and is one of the smoothest in the solar system, there are very few craters on it, but many cracks.
Water: H2O and sulfur (S) is an excellent fuel component.
Even if H2O is used only as fuel (without decomposition into H2 and О2)
Mg + H2O-> MgO + H2
2Al + 3H2O -> Al2O3 + 3H2
You can burn H2, and you can use the principle of hydro-reactive fuels, see BA-111 Flurry M-5.
Excellent solid fuel solid propellant solid fuel based on solid fuel CH-1 (highly metallic magnesium based fuel).

To melt the ice of Europe? What problems?
So any deep space spacecraft has RTG or its analogue: + 300 + 500 ° C in excess, it has nowhere to go.

The main thing is that there is a mass under pressure in Europe to create momentum. This substance is easily mined (ice), and this is H2O, with which mankind has been familiar since its inception.

Everything is as usual - we look at the station Moon-16.
KA mass: 5725 kg. Mass return missile: 512 kg. Mass of the saved device: 34 kg.
The return missile is an independent missile unit with a single-chamber liquid jet engine 1850 kg and a system of three spherical tanks with components of nitrogen tetroxide and asymmetric dimethyl hydrazine. The diameter of the central tank 67 cm, the diameter of each of the peripheral tanks 53, see. The fuel supply system — pressure. To stabilize BP in the active area, steering nozzles served as a common 70 kg.
Total 512 kg ... and this is taking into account that the initially corrective-braking module (CT) was created to deliver a self-propelled vehicle to the surface of the Moon

Well, or option Apollo.
Whom that like. The proportions change (it is understandable - the masses are different), but the principle is the same.
NASA apologists here recently pecked me:
Quote: nasafanat
"Where did the use of" fishing rods "applied to Europe come from? Aha, the Europa Kinetic Ice Penetrator, after all, everything is obvious. That's just in the description of EKIP There is not a word about sampling, but only about the development of a penetrator suitable for Europe. The system may well be used for asteroids or small satellites, ".

Well, yes - the description (job) "fan" did not read. Confined cake.

Europe Kinetic Ice Penetrator (EKIP) called "from the noodle"? It probably sounds dirty A(steroid)CHICKEN, or S(putnik)CHICKEN for the american ear. And about the sampling of samples, of course, "there is nothing":
Bbc boreThe morphic effects due to the turbulent boundary effects have been possible.
Why are they so worried about sawdust, shavings, temperature effects of penetration on the studied soil. And what's this?

The penetrator itself with eye for cable:

"It’s a spacecraft that wasn’t the moon, or an asteroid. sample retriever, which would be tethered to the spacecraft like a boat anchor, down to the surface. With the material gathered, the line right back up before returning the whole mission home. "

I do not like my theory of fishing rods, then use Robert’s “anchor”. Will the essence change?

Quote: nasafanat
"The popular article mentioned refers to the use of this system from a span. .."

Oh how! On the flight path (on 10,5 km / s) shoot (650 m / s), unwind the cable, penetrate ("God forgive me,") or "dowel", pull out (coredube), quickly rewind the cable and wag the tail, fly to the house ? Yes? All right I have not forgotten anything?

I suggested a fan experiment. NASA lover sits in a private car and then follows the points:
1. Takes a scuba gun with the maximum possible length of the cable. Charges, puts on fuse.
2. Find a fence (wooden), for example, a hockey box. Looks, whether there is a circle of people and other living creatures.
3. Moves along the fence on a personal car, at any speed, which master. It is desirable to quickly.
4. Shoots a car through a window into the fence (maybe, when it is at the shortest distance, it can advance, with advance warning so to speak). Got anchored and? Fine!
5. Attempts to pull the spear (core penetrator) out of the fence by pressing the stopper on the gun. WHEN THIS CAR MUST MOVE WITH THE SAME SPEED ALONG THE COLLECTION.

Happened? What? Torn off your hand? Or lucky, and only broke the cable?
Nothing wrong!
Now we approximate the sensations obtained to a linear “span” speed in 1,68 km / s (this is the minimumotherwise the spacecraft will collapse on Europe).
Yes, it is also necessary to take into account that the spacecraft will not have a support point, weightlessness, however.

If so much remote sensing: flying by - fired a projectile, stirred up the firmament of Jupiter II, took a spectrogram of a cloud of dust, produced a radioisotope analysis, with a favorable concurrence of circumstances "sucked" some of the products of the release into the container (no atmosphere, gravity miser) and home.

Everything. Report completed. Who did not fall asleep - thank you very much.

Original sources and used photos, videos and documents:
"Europa Kinetic Ice Penetrator System for Hyper Velocity Instrument"
Deposition Tessa Robinson (Master of Science in Aeronautics & Astronautics) Committee: Robert Winglee, Carl Knowlen (University of Washington), 2016

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  1. izya top
    izya top 23 February 2017 06: 41
    Money is flowing. The US Federal Reserve is working.
    and they don’t need anything else yes this is their main result
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 27 February 2017 09: 23
      We remove the cables, replace the punches with shock elements with a nuclear warhead and get an orbital battle station. Some studies and calculations fit perfectly with this idea. Therefore, such crazy projects do not close, because it is very convenient to mask the interests of the Pentagon under them.
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 27 February 2017 10: 23
        This is called basic research, someday they will squeeze the benefit out of all this, the main thing is that it doesn’t go away in the military-industrial complex, otherwise they will come up with a hyper-penetration bomb without nuclear warheads and will hammer from satellites.
  2. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 23 February 2017 07: 06
    Anton, as always, thank you for the article!
    1. iConst
      iConst 23 February 2017 09: 46
      Quote: Expelling Liberoids
      Anton, as always, thank you for the article!

      I am joining! And all a happy holiday drinks

      On the topic there is a question: what will be the mass of the cable. In my opinion, it will be more than the core mass. How will it unwind when fired?
      1. opus
        23 February 2017 13: 56
        Quote: iConst
        I am joining! And all a happy holiday

        And I join.
        The wife has already "congratulated"

        fighters !!!! help where and how to blame on 8 March?
        The final phrase "Well, as you wish" ..... scary.
        if not tits grow back, then CUT off (oh horror)?

        Quote: iConst
        On the topic there is a question: what will be the mass of the cable.

        what heavenly body?
        penetrator weight (diameter)?

        For the Moon, the safe orbit altitude is 3-5 km (mountains)
        For Europe, much less (mountains, there are cracks)

        Quote: iConst
        How will it unwind when fired?

        There shouldn't be a shot !!!!
        This is an impulse. The orbit will change.
        The separation is as follows:

        then turn on your own punch rd
        1. Asadullah
          Asadullah 26 February 2017 18: 13
          The orbit will change.

          Anton, why do you calculate that the core should be torn from the surface by the inertia of the aircraft? Can't there be a device that will throw him back?
      2. region58
        region58 26 February 2017 20: 59
        Quote: iConst
        How will it unwind when fired?

        It is much more interesting how they will rewind. A cable is not an absolutely rigid body, so if you pull it at one end, the cable will first stretch, then shrink, the other end will not start moving immediately and with additional acceleration ... it will arrive somewhere unknown ... Accordingly -
        Quote: opus
        This is an impulse. The orbit will change.
  3. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 23 February 2017 07: 07
    This is what else is the flag-give me back the Russian fool
    1. Smog
      Smog 23 February 2017 08: 22
      Yeah, caught Swedish spies laughing Happy holiday.
      Thanks a lot to Opus.
    2. maxim947
      maxim947 23 February 2017 09: 29
      Good article)) all competently and intelligibly, smiled. But manned space needs to be increased,
    3. opus
      23 February 2017 14: 33
      Quote: Exorcist Liberoids
      This is what else is the flag-give me back the Russian

      I have the same.
      I'm on Yota.
      Maybe because the terminal equipment Erricson?
  4. Gray brother
    Gray brother 23 February 2017 08: 53
    Next to the ISS, "Dragon" is hanging out, cannot dock, let them practice on it :-)
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 February 2017 19: 52
      Already docked.
  5. Altona
    Altona 23 February 2017 10: 27
    Hmm ... The word "penetration" is used in cinema for adults ... In general, the idea with such a fishing rod is initially stupid. In the sense that it can be realized, only it will be expensive and stupid. By that time, they might come up with teleportation. It resembles an attempt to become famous on YouTube by swallowing small exploding firecrackers.
  6. ksv36
    ksv36 23 February 2017 12: 24
    All a happy holiday. Article plus for humor. Zadornov correctly said. And do not pay attention to them. These are the same English "scientists." Wood-processing countries. Engaged in cutting wooden bucks and that's it.
  7. fa2998
    fa2998 23 February 2017 14: 04
    Thanks Anton for the article! The example with the fence and the harpoon is successful. The truth on the ground if the machine can be fixed by a gun can taxi out (it still rests on the ground) - if the cable can stand it can be pulled out of the fence. But in space, the device will crash into the planet at a distance of length rope. The idea is empty!
    RS all with a holiday! soldier drinks hi
  8. Lekov L
    Lekov L 23 February 2017 14: 19
    Aton, good afternoon and with the holiday, you, colleague!
    Thank you very much for the great mood on such a day and especially from your article. hi
    All the rest, of course, also with the Day of the Soviet Army and Navy!
    I came from a construction site - and here on the "topware" articles are interesting, people are wonderful fellow - and almost no "dill".
    Really a holiday! drinks
    Cheers, comrades! soldier
    Yours faithfully,
    former baumanets, former commander of the battery of the RLK TsU ZRP C 200, a former businessman, but still an engineer ...
    Lekov L.
    1. opus
      23 February 2017 14: 32
      Thank you.
      Go skiing. We got snow.
      1. Lekov L
        Lekov L 23 February 2017 14: 46
        And here in Borisoglebsk, Voronezh (I have a contract here now), the rain has almost washed away!
        Good ski run.
        Sorry for the typo in the name.
        Good luck!
        1. opus
          23 February 2017 17: 46
          Quote: Lekov L
          And here in Borisoglebsk, Voronezh (I have a contract here now), the rain has almost washed away!

          If we don’t have snow ... where did he get to from Voronezh?
          2 weeks ago

          Threat I stabbed the telephone numbers, since these things are not my cars, but according to the law on personal data, I don’t want to run around the courts.
          Now it fell + 20 see "everything in the garden." into the forest, into the park. specific gravity of skiers exceeds the same on the biathlon track in Germany
  9. Dali
    Dali 23 February 2017 14: 42
    I join ... the article is excellent!
    I join ... Guys ... All a happy holiday!
    I join ... Guys ... Long summers ...!

    Exactly Anton, it’s also for RD drill that fuel must be dragged through the whole space ...
  10. pimen
    pimen 23 February 2017 15: 34
    absolutely stupid idea, already at the level of setting the task. For a sample of the soil by a blow from the speed of a good projectile will certainly give something about its structure, but still it will not be quite the same as with traditional drilling (and for such and such money fool )
  11. Niccola Mack
    Niccola Mack 24 February 2017 08: 53
    It’s easier to throw a concrete-rocket rocket on top, and then go down and collect the wreckage from the funnel!
    But cutting experts do not go the easy way (you can make money and experimenting on Earth).
  12. lazy
    lazy 25 February 2017 05: 14
    Well, something like this can happen
  13. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 25 February 2017 11: 52
    Penetrator in general is a promising technology; if without pulling. laughing

    There were 96 penetrators on Mars-4 - unfortunately, the Yeltsinoids placed the implementation of the project.

    The Japanese were about to penetrate the moon; but their drummers could not stand the load.

    Japanese Hayabusa delivered some micrograms of soil from Itorawa astoroid.

    The American penetrators Amundsen and Scott have no idea where to go on Mars.

    In general, almost all the leading powers are going to adapt to the matter. But here is about pulling technology - I hear the first time (I hope the last) laughing
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 27 February 2017 10: 03
      You can, for example, not pull out, and shoot and not a “dildonator”, but only a glass with a breakdown (although problems due to the elasticity of the cable and the need to actively adjust the course of the carrier will still remain).
      But the American puncturers did not disappear, they simply fell into the Martians and, offended, they moved the “legitimately chosen reptilians” to Trump :)