Military Review

Do you know why the liberals raised such a howl about the installation of a monument to Ivan IV the Terrible?

123
Do you know why the liberals raised such a howl about the installation of a monument to Ivan IV the Terrible?



1) As is known from the autopsy of the tomb, held in 1963, he was a red-haired, broad-shouldered bogatyr with a height of 180 cm, and not a skinny papaver, which artists like to portray him so much. The abundance of osteophytes on the bones of the skeleton shows that, unfortunately, the last years of his life Ivan IV the Terrible was practically paralyzed. According to the reports of European ambassadors to their rulers, Ivan IV the Terrible did not smoke, did not drink alcohol, was not seen in love affairs, was distinguished by an incredible efficiency.

2) It was Ivan IV the Terrible, having inherited, in fact, only the Moscow and Novgorod region, created from them Russia with its modern (European) borders and founded at least a quarter of the currently existing cities. It was he who abolished feudalism in Russia, legally equating ordinary peasants with noble princes, he introduced general election into local legislative and executive authorities, it was he who guaranteed representation to the highest legislative / deliberative body of the state - Zemsky Sobor, and it was he who introduced in Russia, universal primary education.

3) Ivan IV the Terrible in his life has not lost a single war. Even the Livonian war ended with the defeat of Poland and Sweden and the peace treaties with them under the terms "Peace in exchange for the return of all the occupied territories."

4) In 1571, Ivan IV the Terrible moved his capital to Veliky Novgorod, in which a palace with an area of ​​14,5 ha was built on the site of Yaroslavsky dvor, and large-scale works were carried out on the improvement of the city. The treasury, the royal family, and all civil services were transported to Novgorod.

In the 1572 year, when the entire Russian army fought with the Tatar-Ottoman army under the Youngs, and Ivan IV the Terrible, together with his retinue and personal guards, went to besiege Weisseenstein (the fortress, of course, was taken. the commander of the royal guard Malyuta Skuratov died), during this period the royal family and the treasury were exclusively under the protection of Novgorod. Ivan IV's confidence in the loyalty of Novgorodians on the one hand and their exceptional loyalty on the other (no data on the unrest or protests of the citizens against the tsar is present) clearly proves that the “Novgorod massacre of 1570 of the year” reported by Western human rights organizations, the tsar, Neither the people of Novgorod in the 16th century knew anything.

5) Metropolitan Philip, a little-known provincial igumen, was appointed to his post by Ivan IV the Terrible, despite the resistance of church hierarchs, at the time of the dispute over the chair of the metropolitan between the archbishop of Novgorod Pimen and the archbishop of Kazan, German, who had already sat down at this place.

Metropolitan Philip was a loyal ally of Ivan IV the Terrible and is well known for his sermons condemning the conspirators who took part in the Fyodorov-Chelyadin sedition.

Overthrown as a result of a conspiracy by Archbishop Pimen, killed by conspirator Stefan Kobylin, a conspiracy participant who received a life sentence for his crime.

About any disagreements between Ivan IV the Terrible and Metropolitan Philip in historical there is not a single mention in the documents.

6) The murders of Tsarevich Ivan, which are reported by Western human rights organizations, Ivan IV the Terrible could not be done for medical reasons: the king was paralyzed.

7) Executions of numerous Russian governors and statesmen (Prince Mikhailo Vorotynsky, Bishop Cornelius of Pechora, Duma boyar Mikhail Kolychev, Magister von Fustenberg, Prince Athanasius Vyazemsky, Prince Ivan Shishkin, Prince Ivan Sheremetyev, children of Prince Vladimir Staritsky and many other boyars, and many others reported by Western human rights organizations, for unknown reasons pass for the “executed” unnoticed, because according to the paintings of the Rank Order, after their death, the victims of terror continued to go to the service, to command shelves, get married and get married, have children. For example, Mikhailo Vorotynsky, twice executed three years after the second (!) Execution, contrived to draw up the first-ever charter of the border service (“Boyarsky sentence on the village and guard service”), and Maria Staritskaya, poisoned, strangled by smoke and drowned in Sheksna, a year after her the execution leaves for Europe as the wife of the Danish prince Magnus.

8) After his death, Ivan IV the Terrible left his heirs a rich, well-fed and vast country with the most powerful army in the world and a full treasury. In any case, during 20 years after his death, right up to the Time of Troubles, not a single dog dared to launch a new war with Russia.

In 1585, the Voronezh fortress was built in Russia, in 1586 - Livny. To ensure the safety of the waterway from Kazan to Astrakhan, cities on the Volga were built: Samara (1586), Tsaritsyn (1589), Saratov (1590). In 1592, the city of Yelets was restored. The city of Belgorod was built on the Donets River in 1596, Tsarev-Borisov was built to the south in 1600. In the period from 1596 to 1602, one of the most grandiose architectural structures of pre-Peter Russia was built - the Smolensk fortress wall, which later became known as the “stone necklace of the Russian Land”.

That is to say: after the death of Ivan IV the Terrible extensive construction throughout Russia was actively going on, that is, gold in the deep royal treasury was enough for all current expenses and even for many excesses!

Perhaps this is the actual minimum, which is supposed to know about Ivan IV the Terrible to every educated person.
Author:
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http://wedun26.livejournal.com/71673.html
123 comments
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  1. kouldoom
    kouldoom 16 February 2017 05: 42
    +28
    Of course England well discredited him that even ours consider him a bloody sadist.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 16 February 2017 06: 04
      +38
      England well discredited him

      Rather, the Germans ... lovers hehe hell of a story about two million raped Russian Germans. smile

      Actually, our story is just not trying to rewrite and reformat.
      Yesterday’s heroes are made villains, and vice versa, notorious bastards are made heroes ... it’s hard to be an impartial researcher in history, you always want to take sides on the basis of your worldview.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 16 February 2017 06: 26
        +17
        Quote: The same Lech
        England well discredited him

        Rather, the Germans ... lovers hehe hell of a story about two million raped Russian Germans. smile м.
        Against the backdrop of the distant, terrible tsar, they managed to praise themselves well. And gradually, not only the Russian tsar, but all the inhabitants of Russia began to be attributed all sorts of demonic actions. And it continues to this day.
      2. Basil50
        Basil50 16 February 2017 06: 29
        +32
        More than the * liberals * of that era, no one could spoil. An immodest contribution to the blackening of the memory of Ivan the Terrible was made by the very envious and not always successful Romanovs and those whom they hired. That's just in the memory of the PEOPLE he remained precisely Ivan the Terrible. Attempts to erase it from the memory of the PEOPLE were in the fact that they destroyed STATE ARCHIVES - DISCHARGE BOOKS. The punishment for keeping any book or manuscript at home was up to the execution of the whole family. Then the library of Ivan the Terrible died.
        And today there are cultural figures who at the state expense create libel on Ivan the Terrible. They also demand respect for themselves and their libels.
        1. captain
          captain 16 February 2017 09: 02
          +15
          I agree with the initial phrase of your comment: "More than * liberals * of that era, no one could spoil .....". Envy, a terrible travel companion of any people. And today's critics of Ivan the Terrible are not just trying to present him as a sort of misanthrope, they are trying to prove that the history of Russia is dark and bloody, has always been.
          1. MrK
            MrK 16 February 2017 14: 19
            +20
            Quote: captain
            And today's critics of Ivan the Terrible are not just trying to present him as a sort of hater

            For the first time, the captain agreed with a colleague.
            What to add? Why do they hate Grozny and Stalin? The answer is simple: they did not allow the elite to steal. And the biggest repression was against the elite, and not the common people.
      3. peta locksmith
        peta locksmith 16 February 2017 10: 20
        +7
        it is England
        from the then queen of demons sent to Ivan the Terrible type, let's get married - she was looking for suitors around the world.
        The nosy demon was answered that the Orthodox with schismatics do not marry - in short, go to .... only not to mine ...
        and why only "aglitsky Germans" didn’t make Russia get their own faith, and sent doctors, and they poisoned Tsar Ivan and his family through close boyars, etc. etc.
        it didn’t work out ... the last resort was to slander - which they succeeded with ...
        until recently ....
      4. Kostya Osipov
        Kostya Osipov 17 February 2017 02: 41
        +3
        About 2 million Germans is true! from them went the GDR, where did he come from.
    2. andj61
      andj61 16 February 2017 09: 20
      +16
      Quote: kouldoom
      Of course England well discredited him that even ours consider him a bloody sadist.

      The thing is different - personal dislike of Ivan the Terrible, Queen Elizabeth of England!
      A letter from Ivan the Terrible to Elizabeth published in England, included in the new book by the historian Felix Pryor, "Elizabeth I: Her Life in Letters," was sent 10 years after the death of the king’s first wife.
      “This is the coarsest letter ever received by Elizabeth,” Pryor said.
      From the translation of the time discovered by Prior, it follows that the king questioned the power of Elizabeth. We thought, he writes, that you are the ruler of your land and want the honor and benefit of your country. "It really matters that people own you and not just people, but trading men both about our sovereign’s heads and honors and lands do not seek profit, but seek their trade profits. And you abide in your maiden rank, as it is vulgar girl, "the king writes in an offensive tone.
      A letter from Queen Elizabeth was found in the archives of Ivan the Terrible, in which she hints at a possible marriage with the king to become rulers of all of Europe - from England to the Urals.
      Since the royal dynasty in England, as well as throughout Europe, comes from the Carolingians (usurpers), and Ivan the Terrible was Rurikovich, that is, the king of nature. Because of this, his answer was appropriate: I am a king from God, and "you are a vulgar girl," not a queen. Trying to explain the rude tone of the letter from Grozny, English historians came up with a version of the allegedly unsuccessful matchmaking of the Russian tsar to the English queen. This could not be in nature due to the above.
      This is where the prejudice towards Russia from all the rulers of England went.
      1. Penzuck
        Penzuck 16 February 2017 11: 23
        +4
        Quote: andj61
        "you are a vulgar girl," not a queen.

        Henry VIII hastened to marry again, and Elizabeth recognized illegitimate (as several years ago he recognized Princess Mary as illegitimate): both previous royal marriages have now become invalid and had no legal consequences.

        On 28 on January 1547, Elizabeth, who is in Anfield, was informed that her father had passed away.

        1547-1533 = 14 years of El I.

        The will of the king said that he leaves the throne to his son Edward. In the event of the death of Edward (in the absence of heirs), Maria will succeed him, then her children, then Elizabeth.

        In October 1553, Mary I was crowned in London.

        Elizabeth chose for her coronation the day 15 of January 1559 of the year

        The Queen’s romance with Lord Dudley lasted more than one decade and was interrupted only because of his death in 1588.
        1588-1559 = 29 years plus minus the “romantic relationship” outside of marriage.
        And the letter is written in 70's. There was no "special hatred" of our tsar from England. At least 10 years of “friendship” with “partners”.

        Something like that. bully
      2. Alena Frolovna
        Alena Frolovna 16 February 2017 21: 39
        +4
        Ivan the Terrible was Rurikovich


        Maternal John the Terrible was a distant descendant Genghis Khan, and on the other hand he is a descendant of the Serbian princes Nemanichi. His family tree goes back to the emperor of the First and Second Rome Augustus, from whom Rurik.
        Thus, he was a successor to the imperial family. That’s why so much dirt pours on him.
        1. Berg berg
          Berg berg 21 February 2017 13: 06
          +3
          We are all descendants of Great Tartaria, for which they do not like us. The greatness of our family is so great that it spread from the borders of Europe to America itself and to China! Where our great-great-grandfathers built the Great Wall to protect our borders! How many attempts were made by raids to destroy our lands from both Europeans and southern Turkic nomadic pastoral tribes. That’s why the proverb went around the world from vorogov- "What we don’t do with them, how we don’t try to conquer everything in Tartarara!" That is, they found their grave there - in Tartaria, the present Great and Mighty Russia!
        2. Navigator Basov
          Navigator Basov 23 February 2017 11: 30
          +1
          Quote: Alena Frolovna
          to the emperor of the First and Second Rome Augustus
          Lolshto? How could Augustus Octavian be simultaneously the emperor of the Roman Empire (First Rome) and Byzantium (Constantinople - Second Rome)? Why do you think that Constantinople - the capital of the late Roman Empire and, later, the Eastern Roman Empire (the Weinzentian Empire) - was unofficially called the Second Rome? Yes, because the Second Rome was after the first, and it was much later than Augustus, with a difference of 300 years (Augustus Octavian died in 14 AD, Constantine moved the capital to New Rome in 330 AD). Emperors do not live so much, even the most imperial emperors. For that matter, it was Konstantin who ruled in both capitals, but as luck would have it, the genealogy of Ivan the Terrible does not go back to him laughing With the same success, it could be stated that Ivan the Terrible on the maternal side was a descendant of Chingiz Aitmatov. Thus, this sectarian bike lies exactly on the material under discussion, but, like him, is just as far from the person under discussion of the king.
    3. Penzuck
      Penzuck 16 February 2017 11: 03
      +7
      Unconditionally title of Ivan already since 1555 years recognized by England, a little later followed by Spain, Denmark and the Florentine Republic.
      January 16 1547 In the Assumption Cathedral of the Moscow Kremlin, a solemn wedding ceremony was held, the rank of which was compiled by the Metropolitan.
      In 1553 the year, the expedition of the English navigator Richard Chansler arrived in Moscow. Shortly after this expedition, the Moscow Company was founded in London, which subsequently received monopoly trade rights from Tsar Ivan.
      The enemy of Russia then was Poland, Sweden, Turkey with vassals, Livonia.
      in 70's, the Tsar canceled the privileges of the Moscow campaign ...
      At least 15 years of friendship with England ...
    4. Al1977
      Al1977 16 February 2017 14: 40
      +2
      Quote: kouldoom
      Of course England well discredited him that even ours consider him a bloody sadist.

      Isn't he a sadist? Is Malyuta Skuratov the kindest person? And why did this name become a household name?
      And what liberals in the USSR when I first found out about him?
      1. Berg berg
        Berg berg 16 February 2017 23: 54
        +9
        And what did Westerners turn Ukrainians into in just twenty years !? And what is there to be surprised at all that recently Bandera was mr ... see, and now for the Ukrainians "holy god"
      2. valiko67
        valiko67 20 February 2017 23: 41
        +5
        - What are you based on, calling I. Grozny a sadist? And what M. Skuratov-Belsky did not please you - a conscientious beginning. guard, honest soldier, who died during the Livonian war?
    5. Zheleznostop
      Zheleznostop 20 February 2017 10: 03
      +1
      I deeply doubt that those who think so are ours.
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. Navigator Basov
      Navigator Basov 22 February 2017 22: 52
      +1
      England conducted trade with him and built its fleet of Russian materials. The then England was rather puny, and could not discredit anyone. They were friends with England at home, Ivan Vasilievich was famous throughout Europe for an excellent liberal, formed a market with the British.
      http://www.russia.ru/video/diskurs_11327/
      Rather, they discredited his local disagreeing with the fact that Ivan the Terrible was not formidable enough.
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 16 February 2017 05: 51
    +11
    To find the missing library of Ivan the Terrible ... how many artifacts can be found there ... I don’t really trust the official history ... it is constantly driven by the powers that be.
    1. sustav75
      sustav75 16 February 2017 06: 40
      +33
      Great King. Did not bend in front of the west. He told them everything directly in their foreheads. He had a Swedish king and the Queen of England was a walking girl, and he didn’t put on leggings with wigs on Russian men. And the enemies were enemies and not partners ... To erect a monument! And the point! Yes, not one. One more to put in Poland, Lithuania, Sweden and in Berlin near the Reichstag!
      1. Al1977
        Al1977 16 February 2017 14: 46
        0
        Quote: sustav75
        Great King. Did not bend in front of the west. He told them everything directly in their foreheads. He had a Swedish king and the English queen was known as a walking girl

        But Hitler also did not bend.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 16 February 2017 06: 44
      +23
      Finally, they wrote the truth about Ivan Vasilyevich! You can lie to anyone who can’t answer: Ivan IV, Stalin, Beria, and indeed the whole history of Russia, and the USSR!
      1. Stas157
        Stas157 16 February 2017 08: 19
        +15
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        You can lie to anyone who can’t answer: Ivan IV, Stalin, Beria, and indeed the whole history of Russia, and the USSR!

        In Russia, yes! We crowd this time to spit! And they will do it with enthusiasm and hooting! Of the latter, Strelkova lied. From the Hero, who raised a whole Donbass with one company, they made some kind of sectarian, equated him with Navalny, and called him an oppositionist! Out of a worthy man - an outcast done! Although he himself directly said that he would never go to Bolotnaya and would not fight the Kremlin, no matter how much he liked the actions of the Kremlin.
    3. Banishing liberoids
      Banishing liberoids 16 February 2017 07: 07
      +9
      The same Lech walks such a rumor that part of the library was found, but when some of the scrolls and books were read, they decided that this should not be published for many more years, and should not be reported. There, the type of history of the Russian people is described over the course of tens of thousands of years.
      1. alex-cn
        alex-cn 16 February 2017 07: 25
        +11
        It seems to have been proved that during the reign of Ivan less people were "repressed" than in Paris in 1572 on Bartholomew’s night - more than 30 thousand. In the "synodics" of Ivan, where all the victims were recorded with his knowledge, a little more than 4's thousand. And this is in the midst of a fierce struggle with the boyar and princely freemen.
        1. Vend
          16 February 2017 09: 23
          +11
          Quote: alex-cn
          It seems to have been proved that during the reign of Ivan less people were "repressed" than in Paris in 1572 on Bartholomew’s night - more than 30 thousand. In the "synodics" of Ivan, where all the victims were recorded with his knowledge, a little more than 4's thousand. And this is in the midst of a fierce struggle with the boyar and princely freemen.

      2. Penzuck
        Penzuck 16 February 2017 09: 42
        +1
        Quote: Exorcist Liberoids
        Yeshli that it is impossible to publish for many years to come

        They were the red White Guard anarcho-monarchists ...
        Quote: Exorcist Liberoids
        There, the type of history of the Russian people is described over the course of tens of thousands of years.

        I hope you are joking.
      3. activator
        activator 16 February 2017 14: 21
        +4
        Quote: Expelling Liberoids
        The same Lech walks such a rumor that part of the library was found, but when some of the scrolls and books were read, they decided that this should not be published for many more years, and should not be reported. There, the type of history of the Russian people is described over the course of tens of thousands of years.

        Quote: Expelling Liberoids
        The same Lech walks such a rumor that part of the library was found, but when some of the scrolls and books were read, they decided that this should not be published for many more years, and should not be reported. There, the type of history of the Russian people is described over the course of tens of thousands of years.

        I didn’t even hear about this, but the fact that the history of the shasha is much older than the different calibers want us to do, and for others it’s clear, one can say from about ten years old there was some kind of scent, and even more so, the Slavic-Aryan Vedas and there are many other facts confirming that they only want to make us hard to make us without a clan and tribe, and only thanks to the west we have acquired a human face. call it what you like, the essence does not change. Only that which you feel with the mind does not fit with what you understand with the mind because the mind receives true knowledge and they completely contradict what is in the world and this is why the Russian people, melancholy, melancholy and hopelessness overcomes. Because there is a conflict of mind and reason, and this is in the same volume of the human body because of this the system is faulty. Those who live with the same mind on the basis of their knowledge and experience, everything is fine with them, they all agree, only they don’t have a spark in their eyes, look at Western politicians, their eyes don’t express anything empty, and ours have even a thief, but with a spark.
      4. alatanas
        alatanas 16 February 2017 15: 30
        0
        Maybe hundreds of thousands? fellow lol
        1. activator
          activator 16 February 2017 15: 59
          0
          Quote: alatanas
          Maybe hundreds of thousands? fellow lol

          Use the "quote" function to make it clear who you are contacting. hi
      5. Vend
        16 February 2017 17: 48
        +1
        Quote: Expelling Liberoids
        The same Lech walks such a rumor that part of the library was found, but when some of the scrolls and books were read, they decided that this should not be published for many more years, and should not be reported. There, the type of history of the Russian people is described over the course of tens of thousands of years.

        What a library. At the University of Berlin, a huge number of Slavic books are kept, Roerich wrote about this. However, historians from Russia do not request them for study.
      6. Freeman
        Freeman 16 February 2017 21: 34
        +1
        Quote: Expelling Liberoids
        The same Lech walks around such a rumor that part of the library was found, but when some of the scrolls and books were read, they decided that it could not be published for many years and not found. The history of the Russian people was described there for tens of thousands of years. .

        It is assumed that the basis of the library of Ivan the Terrible was the books brought by his grandmother Sofia Paleolog from Byzantium as a dowry. There were works by Greek and Roman authors. If among these books the volumes of works by historians of the "ancient world" that have not reached us are "preserved", there will be extremely little information about the ancestors of the Russian people.
        But books like "Velesova" and "Slavic Vedas", there could not be "by definition."
        For a true Christian, such books were "demonic."
        PS.
        There, the type of history of the Russian people is described over the course of tens of thousands of years.

        - and forward. laughing
        - "Crap TiVi" is evil.
        1. Alexey-74
          Alexey-74 20 February 2017 10: 51
          +1
          some researchers suggest that the library of S. Paleolog partially contained scrolls from the Alexandria library
    4. Penzuck
      Penzuck 16 February 2017 09: 17
      +2
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Find the missing library of Ivan the Terrible

      If we recall that only monasteries knew how to "print books" and rewrite books, and this is quite expensive, we can conclude that the source of books for the "library" was mainly "other" books (we don’t forget about oral stories), which are natural stored in monasteries and simply could not get anywhere. If there was any library, then it could be the “library of the metropolitan" or the library of the former king.
      In other words:
      1. "tying" such a library to Ivan the Terrible is reckless and pointless.
      2. If it makes sense to look for "the library of Ivan the Great", then only in the case of a search for books of foreign origin (both translations and originals). bully
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      how many artifacts can you find there

      and women of "reptiloid section" to them wassat
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      official history i don't really trust

      You can trust or not trust the official interpretation (!) Of history. lol But do not trust official science? belay or maybe you are not satisfied with the methods of "historical knowledge"?
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 16 February 2017 09: 44
        +8
        But do not trust official science? belay or maybe you are not satisfied with the methods of "historical knowledge"?


        Not satisfied ... smile 400 years ago, the scientific world considered the EARTH the center of the universe ... 400 years later, modern scientific theories are hopelessly out of date.
        The same theory of human evolution can be thrown into the bin in the light of new discoveries ...
        so everything needs to be questioned, hehe even his own existence ... what if the devil himself is not joking, we really exist in some sort of matrix and parallel universe.
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 16 February 2017 11: 36
          0
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          scientific theories hopelessly out of date

          theory - interpretation of facts. And the methods of scientific knowledge are unshakable, as they are based on logic. Read any book where the author works with sources - and you will find many parallels with the work of the court, police, prosecutors, and forensics ...
          You again go to verbiage ...
          1. Same lech
            Same lech 16 February 2017 15: 02
            +4
            You again go to verbiage ...


            Verbiage ... a Bolshevik word ... it does not accept dissent ... what you do not accept in its version means verbiage ... heh he smells like modern UKRAINE here ... whoever is against us is against us ... or engaged in verbiage.
      2. V.ic
        V.ic 16 February 2017 10: 22
        +6
        Quote: Penzuck
        But do not trust official science?

        In 1772, the famous chemist Lavoisier opposed meteorites, and for the next several decades, the Academy of Sciences put a resolution on all reports of their fall: "Stones cannot fall from the sky, because there are no stones in the sky."
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 16 February 2017 11: 54
          +1
          Quote: V.ic
          In 1772, the famous chemist Lavoisier opposed meteorites, and for the next several decades, the Academy of Sciences put a resolution on all reports of their fall: "Stones cannot fall from the sky, because there are no stones in the sky."

          AND? What is this example for? Do you believe that such an event took place? And it does not occur to anyone to refute this fact from history. The fact of error is obvious. But delusion and intentional distortion are not the same thing. And in the outline of this temporary misconception not to trust official science? Before the invention of graphene, no one knew about it. And what? reject official material science? Do not trust the fact that diamond has a crystal lattice? Or to refute the existence of graphite? or can invent a carbon structure that does not exist yet? or to assume that 10 000 years ago, the great Russian scientists invented graphene and then the Zionists, Communists, Masons and Martians came and convinced the Russians that graphene is not in nature? Strange, don’t you?
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 16 February 2017 12: 22
            +4
            Quote: Penzuck
            or believe that even 10 years ago by the great Russian scientists

            ... that you are "boiling", dear, according to the Orthodox chronology, the 7525 year has just come from the creation of the world!
            1. Penzuck
              Penzuck 16 February 2017 13: 35
              0
              Quote: V.ic
              ... that you are "boiling", dear, according to the Orthodox chronology, the 7525 year has just come from the creation of the world!

              So what? Is God Monday?
              1. V.ic
                V.ic 16 February 2017 15: 05
                +2
                Quote: Penzuck
                So what? Is God Monday?

                ... year with the day of the week / one day / it is inappropriate to compare, the dimension is not the same. By the way, there should be at least 50 Mondays in the year, will it not be difficult for you to indicate which one you had in mind?
                1. Penzuck
                  Penzuck 17 February 2017 08: 56
                  0
                  Quote: V.ic
                  You will not be difficult to specify which you had in mind?

                  system of chronology "From the Creation of the World", which belonged to Orthodox theologians by Friday - the sixth day creations calculated according to Septuagint like 1 March 5508 years BC e., and later as Saturday 1 September 5509 years BC. e.
                  Quote: V.ic
                  year with day of the week / one day / inappropriate to compare, the dimension is not the same

                  This question is for the calendar author and “calculators,” why are they referring to the EMNIP: “for God, one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.” And the life expectancy of Adam, Noah, etc. Made similar calculations. Or why Catholics considered 4500 years BC day of creation, while in the V century. a certain monk did not calculate the year of R.Kh.
                  Therefore, it is not up to you to decide whether it is appropriate or inappropriate in this particular case. I hope you do not pretend to be the leading theologian of the Russian Federation?
            2. activator
              activator 16 February 2017 14: 38
              +1
              Quote: V.ic
              ... that you are "boiling", dear, according to the Orthodox chronology, the 7525 year has just come from the creation of the world!

              Or is it still peace? in the sense of not creating the universe, but creating the world in a star temple ... that is, the end of the war. Which was, according to some reports, sort of like with the Chinese or their ancestors who had flown to the earth from the constellation of the dragon from here and George the Victorious defeating the dragon. They then raked in full, which is generally normal for the Chinese.
              1. V.ic
                V.ic 16 February 2017 15: 09
                +1
                Quote: activator
                and the creation of the world in a star temple .. that is, the end of the war. Which was, according to some reports, sort of like with the Chinese or their ancestors who had flown to earth from the constellation of the dragon

                ... I repent, sinful, but constellation name should be written in a different register "The dragon". You mean that the dragon is a national Chinese brand like a Russian bear?
                1. activator
                  activator 16 February 2017 15: 49
                  0
                  Quote: V.ic
                  I repent, it’s sinful, but the name of the constellation should be written in a different register of "Dragon". Is it you that the dragon is a national Chinese brand like a Russian bear?

                  Well, this brand was supposed to come from somewhere, it’s actually difficult for a person to come up with something that he’s never seen, for example, Indian drawings based on the battle at Kurukshetra there are drawings that show rockets, flying vehicles and there are flying chariots in direct the sense of the word. And it seems that in the second case, the author pushed away from his vision and understanding and interpreted primitively that the flying chariot is precisely the chariot in the harness, the first he understood what it was about, he could even personally see it. The Vedas claim that the yellow race flew to Midgard from the constellation of the dragon from here and their totem.
      3. andj61
        andj61 16 February 2017 11: 45
        +3
        Quote: Penzuck
        You can trust or not trust the official interpretation (!) Of history. But do not trust official science? or maybe you are not satisfied with the methods of "historical knowledge"?

        The last 300-400 years with Russia, Russia is a country with an unpredictable past! Rulers change - and one who has been impeccable becomes a villain. yes
        And there are so many in our history ... request Ivan the Terrible, Boris Godunov, all Petra, Pavel, Alexander, both Nicholas. It’s better not to talk about the 20th century - ALL leaders turned out to be bad. hi
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 16 February 2017 13: 04
          +2
          Quote: andj61
          And there are a lot of such people in our history ... Ivan the Terrible, Boris Godunov, all Petra, Pavel, Alexander, both Nikolai. About 20 century it’s better not to talk at all - ALL leaders turned out to be bad.

          But what about skating with lizaveta? Women are completely forgotten ... Where is she "gender" justice? tongue When talking with opponents, I always remember Freud. wassat

          Where personal animosity, there really is something and where to denigrate, but here to take Fedor Ioannovich ... Has the father of your native been denigrated? Or maybe B. Godunov is a "prisoner" who, if not a witness to almost all events, then a witness to the life of the tsar and rather his faithful companion? Does he "tarnish" the king? Oppositionists and usurpers are seen in this more.
    5. Freeman
      Freeman 16 February 2017 21: 12
      0
      Quote: The same Lech
      Find the missing library of Ivan the Terrible ... how many artifacts can be found there ...

      Fragment from Wiki:
      Hypotheses on the composition of the library
      The volume of the library is usually estimated as very large: 800 volumes or 30 (maybe even 70) carts loaded with books. According to various sources, among the books of Liberia there could be very rare and valuable.
      “The Dubelov List” contains the following works:

      "History" Titus Libya - Of the 142 books (scrolls) of this composition, only 35 are known to science;

      The Life of the Twelve Caesars by Suetonius - perhaps a more complete list than those available now;

      "History" of Tacitus - “several volumes” appear in the list, but it is not specified which ones. Only four and a half of the first books of 12 have reached us;

      "History" Polybius - this composition contained 40 books (5 reached). What books were in Liberia are not indicated;
  3. Alex_59
    Alex_59 16 February 2017 06: 37
    +3
    In principle, a thinking person does not need to know these facts in order to understand that Ivan the Terrible is not the demon whom they draw. Because seldom do they, such demons, come across in history. Only one Hitler comes to mind, and even then with a stretch. “There are few real violent ones” (C)
    However, exclusively positive characters also do not exist.
  4. BecmepH
    BecmepH 16 February 2017 06: 47
    0
    And why, all the same
    liberals raised such a howl about the installation of a monument to Ivan IV the Terrible?
  5. Olgovich
    Olgovich 16 February 2017 06: 56
    +3
    Ivan IV the Terrible in his life has not lost a single war. Even the Livonian war ended with the defeat of Poland and Sweden and the peace treaties with them under the terms "Peace in exchange for the return of all the occupied territories."

    No: as a result of the war, Russia was bustedand the northwestern areas depopulated. It should be noted that the course of the war and its results were influenced by the Crimean raids: out of 25 years of the war, for only 3 years there were no significant Crimean raids.

    In January 1582, not far from Pskov, a 10-year-old Yam-Zapolsky truce was concluded with the Commonwealth. Russia refused Livonia and Belarusian landsbut some border lands returned to her.

    In May 1583, a three-year Plyus armistice was concluded with Sweden, according to which, in favor of the latter,stepped Koporye, Yam, Ivangorod and the adjacent territory of the southern coast of the Gulf of Finland,
    if this is victory, then what is defeat?

    His rule led to the disaster of 1571 - the breakthrough of Khan Devlet-Girey to Moscow and the burning of the Russian capital.. As a result of the repression, a number of prominent military leaders died: Daniil Adashev, Kazan hero Alexander Gorbaty, winner of the Battle of Molody Mikhail Vorotynsky and many other warlords.

    Novgorod pogrom is wild, even for those times, a meaningless massacre.

    Oprichnina Ivan is a gathering of sadists and cowards who are bold at the expense of peaceful and who did not come to war with the khan.

    Ivan 4-figure is very controversial.

    There is none on the hedgehog for the Millennium of Russia, and rightly so.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 16 February 2017 07: 13
      +10
      There is none on the hedgehog for the Millennium of Russia, and rightly so.


      No, it’s not right ... in the history of RUSSIA everything should be indicated ... and the righteous and villains ... and heroes and villains.
      Otherwise, how can we find out the whole truth about RUSSIA by cutting off a part of it that we don’t like for any reason ... it's like letting the evil feminists cut off their pride to the peasants.
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 16 February 2017 07: 20
      +9
      Actually, the article says about Novgorod and Vorotynsky
      The confidence of Ivan IV the Terrible in the loyalty of the Novgorodians on the one hand and their exceptional fidelity on the other (there are no data on the unrest or protests of the townspeople against the tsar) clearly demonstrate that the “Novgorod massacre of 1570”, reported by Western human rights organizations, nor the tsar, neither the Novgorodians themselves knew anything in the XNUMXth century.

      For example, Mikhailo Vorotynsky, twice executed three years after the second (!) Execution, contrived to draw up the first-ever charter of the border service

      Quote: Olgovich
      Oprichnina Ivan is a gathering of sadists and cowards who are bold at the expense of peaceful and who did not come to war with the khan.

      Why? In the battle of Molodi, the guardsmen fought quite dignifiedly.
      1. alex-cn
        alex-cn 16 February 2017 07: 56
        +5
        Yes, and Malyuta Skuratov, who was creeped by all, died during the assault on the Wiesenstein fortress from a bullet ...
        There were cruel times and cruel people ...
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 16 February 2017 09: 14
        +2
        Quote: Dart2027
        Actually, the article says about Novgorod and Vorotynsky


        It is said, but there is no faith in the author who recognizes the Livonian war as a victory (Koporye, Yam, Ivangorod and the adjacent territory of the southern coast of the Gulf of Finland gave way.), Etc.).
        It was in the course of this war that the concept of PORUHA came into existence. During the collapse, the most economically developed central (region of Moscow) and northwestern (region of Novgorod and Pskov) regions of the country were launched. One part of the population fled, the other died during the oprichnina and the Livonian War. Over 50% of arable land (and in some places up to 90%) remained unprocessed. The yoke of taxes sharply increased, prices rose 4 times. Peasant farming has lost stability in countriese famine began. In the years 1570-1571 on the territory of the Moscow state also occurred plague epidemic
        According to Bit books 1475-1605 and 1559-1605, Vortotynsky was executed together with Prince Nikita Odoevsky and boyar Mikhail Morozov.


        Quote: Dart2027
        Why? In the battle of Molodi, the guardsmen fought quite dignifiedly.

        Young is 1972 year. And in 1571 year the Crimean Khan Devlet-Girey invaded Russia. According to V. B. Kobrin, the decaying oprichnina at the same time showed complete disruption: the oprichniks, who were used to robbing civilians, simply did not show up for war, so they only got one regiment (against five zemstvo regiments). Moscow was burned.
        As a result, during a new invasion in 1572, the oprichnina army was already united with the Zemsky; in the same year the king altogether abolished the oprichninau and forbade its very name.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 16 February 2017 10: 02
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          but there is no faith in the author who recognizes the Livonian war as a victory

          I don’t argue here
          Quote: Olgovich
          And in 1571, the Crimean Khan Devlet-Girey invaded Russia

          And here is an interesting question. Firstly, the invasion of the khan was "overslept" by the governors guarding the border. Oprichniki have nothing to do with it. Secondly, they were initially created as a kind of internal troops to fight the remnants of the feudal liberties, and not as the basis of the army to fight the external enemy, so they could not have any influence on the situation at that time - the troops simply did not have time to assemble, so the capture of Moscow was inevitable.
          Quote: Olgovich
          in the same year, the king abolished the oprichnina altogether and forbade its very name

          Necessity disappeared and it was abandoned.
          Quote: Olgovich
          Vortotinsky was executed

          It happened to the theory that he died on the way to exile and that he was executed. In general, a lot of strange things.
          1. alex-cn
            alex-cn 16 February 2017 11: 05
            +2
            And here it’s even weirder ... In the "synodik" his name is not, and the son in the year of his death was appointed governor in Murom.
    3. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 16 February 2017 07: 41
      +19
      darling Olgovich, you are getting funnier and funnier! laughing Ampolik Nikolashka, aka Holstein-Gottorp who lost the war to the Japanese, brought the country to revolution, is almost a hero, and the Russian Tsar Ivan the Terrible turned out to be bad! wassat
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 16 February 2017 08: 21
        +16
        Quote: Uncle Murzik
        darling Olgovich, you are getting funnier and funnier!

        I am surprised at your surprise. He is a Vlasovite, Russophobe. I hope you didn’t seriously think that Olgovich was only an anti-Soviet and hated the Bolsheviks for the power of working people and social justice. No, of course. Perhaps this is not pleasant to him, but this is not the main thing, he hates them because they were able to rebuild and rebuild Russia stronger than before.
        Of course, he also refers to pre-revolutionary history from the same class positions. Incidentally, he is completely liberal.
        From the point of view of the Vlasovites, it’s just completely logical that the German Nicholas 2 who betrayed Russia and the monarchy is a hero and a holy martyr, and the first Russian Tsar who created the Russian centralized state is a criminal and a sadist.
        What is bad for Russians is like incense for them.
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 16 February 2017 08: 49
          +9
          Dear Odysseus, I have long understood that Olgovich is Moldovan and most likely Ukrainian maydanut liberal, by the way he used to be under the nickname ALEXANDER! In Paris in 1572, more than 30 thousand were killed on a Bartholomew’s night! Or the English “virgin queen” Elizabeth I not only cut off the head of Mary Stuart, she executed 89 thousand more of her subjects. Unlike her contemporary Ivan the Terrible, who called her “the vulgar girl”, Elizabeth (whose mother, Anna Boleyn, too, was beheaded, by the way) did not repent of the deed either publicly or privately; she didn’t write down the money for the eternal commemoration in the monasteries did not send. The European monarchs did not have such habits at all.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 16 February 2017 10: 13
          +4
          Quote: Odyssey
          He’s a Vlasovite, Russophobe. I hope you didn’t seriously think that Olgovich is only an anti-Soviet and hates the Bolsheviks for the power of working people and social justice.


          Your opinion Russophobe-Bolshevik about me is absolutely indifferent. I also note this is simply flooding prohibited by the VO Rules, as to the topic of the article, no sideways.

          Result Russophobes-Bolsheviks-endangered towards the end of their reign Russian people and torn to pieces by historical Russia, with the treacherously devoted so-called Ukraine Russian Novorossia and other Russian lands.
      2. Stas57
        Stas57 16 February 2017 09: 04
        +2
        well, now "cheburashka with nikolashka" will come running, tell about the burry mummy
      3. Olgovich
        Olgovich 16 February 2017 09: 20
        +3
        Quote: Uncle Murzik
        darling Olgovich, you are getting funnier and funnier!

        Dear Uncle, Your frequent loud laughter causes some concern for you .... request belay
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 16 February 2017 12: 22
          +5
          darling Olgovich yes no we are glad that the circus has not left, and you still stayed! laughing look how much they put a plus! lol
    4. ism_ek
      ism_ek 16 February 2017 09: 14
      +3
      What a pity that the cons were canceled, not an article, but one lie
    5. Penzuck
      Penzuck 16 February 2017 09: 47
      +3
      We read paragraph 7 articles:
      For example, Mikhailo Vorotynsky, twice executed three years after the second (!) Execution, contrived to draw up the first-ever charter of the border service

      We read you:
      Quote: Olgovich
      The repression killed a number of prominent military leaders: Daniil Adashev, Kazan hero Alexander Gorbaty, Mikhail Vorotynsky, winner of the Battle of Molody, and many other military leaders.

      In vain the author did not indicate the source.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Oprichnina Ivan is a gathering of sadists and cowards who are bold at the expense of peaceful and who did not come to war with the khan.

      fool wassat crying
      1. brn521
        brn521 16 February 2017 12: 45
        0
        Quote: Penzuck
        In vain the author did not indicate the source.

        As far as I understood from the only link in the article, this is a creative interpretation of R.G. Skrynnikova.
    6. V.ic
      V.ic 16 February 2017 10: 25
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      The repression killed a number of prominent military leaders: Daniil Adashev, Kazan hero Alexander Gorbaty, winner of the Battle of Molody Mikhail Vorotynsky

      (C) For example, Mikhailo Vorotynsky, twice executed, three years after the second (!) Execution, contrived to draw up the first-ever charter of the border service (“Boyarsky sentence on the village and guard service”), and Maria Staritskaya, poisoned, strangled by smoke and drowned in Sheksna, through a year after his execution he left for Europe as the wife of the Danish prince Magnus.

      You even need a count on your head, but the opinion of the freemason Karamzin will be sacred and not touched!
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 16 February 2017 11: 41
        +2
        Quote: V.ic
        You at least count on head teschi


        I’m afraid to suppose you, and ... um ... hit her? belay
        1. V.ic
          V.ic 16 February 2017 12: 25
          +5
          Quote: Olgovich
          I'm afraid to suggest to you

          ... do not be afraid, answer about the Freemason Karamzin, who wrote the "History of the Russian State."
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 16 February 2017 13: 02
            +2
            Quote: V.ic
            don't be afraid, answer about the freemason Karamzin


            Already, no, it's clear that they hit. And more than once ... request
            1. V.ic
              V.ic 16 February 2017 14: 56
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              Already, no, it's clear that they hit. And more than once ...

              ... is it you about yours, about the female? lol
  6. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 16 February 2017 07: 08
    +10
    Thanks to the author for the article and the giant plus + good
  7. Dart2027
    Dart2027 16 February 2017 07: 16
    +13
    Tell me who your enemy is and I'll tell you who you are

    If liberals, human rights activists, human beings, etc. they hate any statesman, that means he was a good person.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 16 February 2017 11: 37
      +1
      Liberals of all stripes hated and hate tsar Nicholas II with fierce hatred. And the (neo) Trotskyists have the same hatred. By the way, Stalin regrouped the company of regicide, for the most part then, he simply could not stand them.
  8. midshipman
    midshipman 16 February 2017 07: 30
    +14
    This is the great Sovereign of Russia. I have the honor.
  9. jovanni
    jovanni 16 February 2017 08: 19
    +6
    Do you know why the liberals raised such a howl about the installation of a monument to Ivan IV the Terrible?

    Oprichniki are awake ...
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 16 February 2017 10: 26
      +3
      Quote: Jovanni
      Oprichnikov vzdit.

      ... maybe stsut?
  10. sergo1914
    sergo1914 16 February 2017 09: 09
    +6
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: Uncle Murzik
    Ampolator Nicholas

    Lenin’s hump overturned yes. The burry Jewish revolutionist was also glad when the Russians killed the Russians. And Murzik flatters that, speaking of the losses of Russia in the warrior, he puts on ridiculous smiles.
    Murzik, you have fun that the Russian soldiers died.


    It would seem, what does Lenin have to do with it? The author of the post contrasted Ivan the Terrible with Nikolai the Bloody. But no ... The old song about the "commie" sounded with renewed vigor. Still, anti-communism is a mental illness.
  11. Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 16 February 2017 10: 08
    +7
    For liberals and Western litter, any ruler of Russia who has increased its power and borders is always an enemy of the West, respectively, their enemy. Tsar Ivan the Terrible was excellent. Now this would be in our troubled and liberoid times. There were no partners and colleagues, but enemies they would tremble with horror. And unclean foam would not walk around the country and ruin the achievements of the former Rulers.
  12. androv
    androv 16 February 2017 10: 49
    0
    "he abolished feudalism in Russia" after this phrase you can no longer read .. and so everything is clear. although no, the question arose, but what did he introduce in Russia?
    1. alex-cn
      alex-cn 16 February 2017 12: 05
      +7
      The one-man rule, which then (and maybe now) could only withstand all that scum that tried to tear Russia apart.
  13. Semenov
    Semenov 16 February 2017 10: 55
    +6
    Very interesting but controversial article. But the liberals raised the “howl” in many respects due to the fact that Stalin should be erected a monument, like Grozny. At least for the annihilation of fascism and the restoration (with perspective) of the country from ruins. Yes, and the territories have grown.
  14. weksha50
    weksha50 16 February 2017 12: 16
    +11
    "After his death, Ivan IV the Terrible left his heirs a rich, well-fed and vast power with the most powerful army in the world and a full treasury. In any case for 20 years after his deathto the Time of Troubles, not a single dog dared to start a new war with Russia"...

    For this alone it is necessary to erect a monument ...

    "after the death of Ivan IV the Terrible, extensive construction throughout Russia continued actively, that is, gold in the deep royal treasury was enough for all current expenses and even to many excesses "...

    And for this - too ...

    And the liberals are afraid of the new oprichnina ... If translated into human language, they are afraid that the plundered capital will return to the "royal" (or state) treasury, and their "rights and freedoms", which bear a new turmoil in modern society, will be cut down at the root ...

    Who is against? I personally - only FOR !!! good
  15. Operator
    Operator 16 February 2017 13: 50
    +8
    There is no Mikhail Vorotynsky in the Synodik of Ivan the Terrible (a memorial list of people whose tsar took responsibility for the death), sent in numerous copies to the monasteries. Therefore, the death of Mikhail Vorotynsky occurred for natural reasons.

    By the way, in the Synodic of Ivan the Terrible, the number of people killed in Novgorod by Malyuta Skuratov (referring to the data source - Skuratov’s facet) is directly recorded - 1505.

    The ruin of Moscow in the 1571 year by the Crimean Tatars was caused by the absence of Russian troops in the south, since they participated in the Livonian war. In 1572, the error was corrected and the Crimean Tatars suffered a brutal defeat at Molody, after which they could no longer attack the central regions of the Russian kingdom.

    The main mistake of Ivan the Terrible was that he, on the advice of the Elected Rada, launched the Livonian War without first eliminating the Crimean Khanate (like the Kazan and Astrakhan).
  16. Klaus
    Klaus 16 February 2017 14: 30
    +4
    Amazing, sparkling, enchanting nonsense.
    It amazes me why amateurs think of themselves as great historians, and so easily assert all nonsense? The reason, apparently, is progressive illiteracy. This is natural: when education and science deteriorate, people begin to listen to street clicks and midwives. Their finest hour is approaching, because any nonsense spoken with feeling, in an affirmative form and with a smart face - finds a response in a dark mass.
    Apparently, everything is very serious, since even on this resource they are already talking about flights to the Moon with the argument of yellow newspapers, and now they have reached Ivan the Terrible ... These are not alarming bells, they are ringing the bells !!! What for? Why publish and increase this nonsense?
    It is especially disgusting that any illiterate opus appeals to "patriotism." So: patriotism is work, work on oneself first of all, on one’s education and self-improvement. Before you write a patriotic article on a historical topic, you should go to the archives, study documents, historiography, and in the end, flip through a history textbook! No need to discredit the idea of ​​patriotism by elementary ignorance.
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 16 February 2017 15: 01
      +5
      Quote: Klaus
      when education and science deteriorate, people begin to listen to street clicks

      ... it is natural if all the media lie shamelessly!
      Quote: Klaus
      this is ringing the bells !!! What for? Why publish and increase this nonsense?

      Quote: Klaus
      It is especially disgusting that any illiterate opus appeals to "patriotism"

      ... but this is bullshit!
    2. activator
      activator 16 February 2017 15: 31
      +4
      Quote: Klaus
      Amazing, sparkling, enchanting nonsense.

      You wrote this nonsense, even take 2MV already rewrite Yatsenyuk, for example, told that the Ukrainian army liberated Germany, many in Europe already believe that the USSR was the aggressor, the opinion of Stalin was changed three times over the past 60 years as the history of the USSR, and you talk about textbooks stories . These textbooks must be burned at the stake so as not to destroy the children's mind of bullshit.
      1. Klaus
        Klaus 16 February 2017 15: 52
        0
        The trouble is that they are trying to evaluate historical events from the point of view of modern realities, modern man, and modern ideas about the world order.
        Regarding the article, it would be nice for the author of the article to read Kurbsky’s correspondence. However ... the governor of the Oryol region had already sent Grozny from Moscow to St. Petersburg, so nothing was surprising.
        As for the history of the USSR ... there is only one way out: an intelligent person will find documents and literature and sources and monographs, and he will get to the bottom of the truth. But a fool - and so do not need anything. So everyone stays with his own.
        1. activator
          activator 16 February 2017 16: 25
          +6
          Quote: Klaus
          The trouble is that they are trying to evaluate historical events from the point of view of modern realities, modern man, and modern ideas about the world order.

          It doesn’t matter, it’s propaganda.
          Quote: Klaus
          Regarding the article, it would be nice for the author of the article to read Kurbsky’s correspondence.
          What can you learn about the USSR by reading Solzhenitsyn or Rezun? But it is precisely their libel that will be presented as truth.
          Quote: Klaus
          As for the history of the USSR ... there is only one way out: an intelligent person will find documents and literature and sources and monographs, and he will get to the bottom of the truth

          So the witnesses are still alive, but they already need to get to the bottom, and what will happen in a hundred years?
      2. Zulu_S
        Zulu_S 17 February 2017 00: 01
        0
        Quote: activator
        , even take 2mv already rewrite Yatsenyuk, for example, he said that the Ukrainian army liberated Germany,

        Why bother with a bunch of Yatsenyuk and this opus? However, they are equivalent
        1. Bashibuzuk
          Bashibuzuk 20 February 2017 14: 10
          +2
          That's how much I read historical essays on the VO. so much amazed.
          Not that every such publication causes a wild chatter of opinions. I’m used to it.
          But I am always amazed at the fact that, in the next discussion, certain “Klaus” will be drawn - and it will certainly be the “freshest” person, and it will surely be shameless slander against everyone else - I quote ... ”. Regarding the article, it would be nice for the author of the article to read Kurbsky’s correspondence. However ... the governor of the Oryol region had already sent Grozny from Moscow to St. Petersburg, so nothing was surprising.
          But a fool - and so do not need anything. So everyone stays with his ..
          "
          Who and whom did you call a fool here?
          And here was the governor of the Oryol region? Where to build it?
          Logic is murderous.
          And the most interesting is peremptory.
          Sir Klaus, I am interested - what is your scientific degree? Or hold the library of Grozny in a zashashnik?
          Kurbsky is cited as an example, laughter.
          But if we don’t read Kasparov da Navalny, Berezovsky da Khodor, and the rest of the right-wingers, including Solzhenitsyn, we’ll find out the truth about Russia. Deposits of truth, literally.
          ...
          It's funny to watch such cries.
          Wacky cries.
  17. pussamussa
    pussamussa 16 February 2017 15: 33
    +4
    The monument to Ivan the Terrible will not hurt. To restore historical justice, it would be nice to have a monument to Stalin. Yes, and Dzerzhinsky too.
  18. Klaus
    Klaus 16 February 2017 17: 28
    0
    Quote: activator
    What can you learn about the USSR after reading Solzhenitsyn or Rezun? But it is precisely their libel that will be presented as truth

    1. Rezun should not be placed next to Solzhenitsyn. Rezun spitting him is not worth it.
    2. Solzhenitsyn really fought for the USSR, and sat in the camps real. And the winner of the Lenin Prize, and the owner of the Nobel Prize was real. And in the newspapers they printed it, and they shook hands in the writers' union.
    1. activator
      activator 16 February 2017 19: 43
      +5
      Quote: Klaus
      2. Solzhenitsyn really fought for the USSR, and sat in the camps real. And the winner of the Lenin Prize, and the owner of the Nobel Prize was real. And in the newspapers they printed it, and they shook hands in the writers' union.

      Well, there is an opinion that of course he fought boldly only far from the front, and in his letters he reproached the supreme with the intention that he wouldn’t get to the front, of course you can prove it, but seditious thoughts were for that he sat down. And when Khrushchev came here, he came in handy as a nail in the lid of the coffin of Stalin. Stalin, of course, was not white and fluffy and many innocent people were hurt, but the facts show that he raised the country, he also put a lot of effort into the victory, the atomic bomb also had changes in agriculture, I remember my father said to me in childhood the saying “Malenkov came ate blinki "and then corn. And he didn’t have any Merseys or Armani nifig suits, he just had a state for which he was personally responsible and there wasn’t any place to run to and he knew that after death he wouldn’t finish it what started is nonsense on the grave, so it happened. I am not an adherent of Stalin’s order, but it’s a shame that he did it with difficulty and with such victims it was all in vain.
    2. Alikos
      Alikos 20 February 2017 19: 06
      +1
      [quote = Klaus] [quote = activator]
      ... Solzhenitsyn really fought for the USSR, and sat in the camps realistically. And the winner of the Lenin Prize, and the owner of the Nobel Prize was real. And in the newspapers they printed it, and they shook hands in the writers' union. [/ Quote]
      “Blood shed ...” in the zone was a “drummer”, he pounded kumu intensively) they printed for this and shook hands ...
      Yes, and the Nobel laureate is still
      Humpback is also a laureate and order bearer from the west, and Benya Yeltsin is a favorite of the "Goddess Bao"
      But the people are not blind, they see hooligan from afar
  19. Freeman
    Freeman 16 February 2017 20: 41
    +1
    Do you know why the liberals raised such a howl about the installation of a monument to Ivan IV the Terrible?

    laughing
  20. Zulu_S
    Zulu_S 16 February 2017 23: 55
    0
    I wonder what the author smoked? Managed in one heap to mix the past and the fiction. Historians nervously smoke aside, Fomenko strangled himself with envy on rotten aspen, pumped out the force!
    Ivan IV the Terrible in his life has not lost a single war. Even the Livonian war ended with the defeat of Poland and Sweden and the peace treaties with them under the terms "Peace in exchange for the return of all the occupied territories."

    This means that all territories conquered by Russia during the war were returned to Poland and Sweden!
    Not the human rights defenders scream about the tortured and executed, the king himself compiled lists and sent them to the monasteries. Etc. To refute all absurdities - the comment will be longer than the article!
    . It’s not very clear how such unverified material got to the resource!
  21. ando_bor
    ando_bor 17 February 2017 01: 55
    +1
    Liberals in Russia are in power, and Putin has the main one, and what the author calls liberals is a common hired shit - a component of the weapons of hybrid wars.
  22. Mitekk
    Mitekk 17 February 2017 07: 10
    +6
    Figures such as Ivan the Terrible and Joseph Stalin are introducing Western elites and their liberal henchmen in Russia into a state of low risk of rabies. Even the memorials to these people make them shake, spit bile and yelling, screaming all the accumulated in their memory libel to these Great people. And all because Ivan Gorzny and Joseph Stallin buried the plans of the Western elites to capture and subjugate Russia to them and ensure the security of Russia for many years to come. Note not a single liberal, not a single Western leader objects to the monuments of Yeltsin or even Khrushchev, and all because these are people who are ruining Russia. Everyone who destroys and sells our country for them is a friend and even literally a brother like Gorbachev.
    Stalin said this: "If our enemies scold us? So we are doing everything right," respectively, if we praise, then we are rolling in tartarara, as it was in the 90s.
    Remember any candidate that suits the West and liberals, this is a 100% enemy of Russia, like Khrushchev, Porobny Gorbachev, like Yeltsin.
    Putin plunged by the constant attacks of the West and the local “liberalism” has not yet reached the level of Ivan III and Dzhugashvili. But as already annoying these enemies of all Russian and Russia. So it’s going in the right direction! )))
  23. Pavel Frolov
    Pavel Frolov 17 February 2017 09: 40
    0
    Quote: Alena Frolovna
    Ivan the Terrible was Rurikovich


    Maternal John the Terrible was a distant descendant Genghis Khan, and on the other hand he is a descendant of the Serbian princes Nemanichi. His family tree goes back to the emperor of the First and Second Rome Augustus, from whom Rurik.
    Thus, he was a successor to the imperial family. That’s why so much dirt pours on him.

    Where does infa come from? Link to the facts pliz.
  24. Real stalinist
    Real stalinist 17 February 2017 11: 03
    +1
    Fiercely, applaud frantically !!!
  25. Tolstoevsky
    Tolstoevsky 17 February 2017 11: 13
    +3
    It is not true that the liberals hate Ivan the Terrible. They hate all Russians without exception
  26. Klaus
    Klaus 17 February 2017 16: 33
    0
    Quote: Mitekk
    And all because Ivan Gorzny and Joseph Stallin buried the plans of the Western elites to capture and subjugate Russia to them and ensure the security of Russia for many years to come.

    The enslavement of the local peasantry began with Ivan the Terrible, with the adoption of the practice of introducing "reserved years." Prior to this, on Yuryev’s day, having paid a rupee in silver for the “elderly,” the peasant could go to another rich and generous landowner. As a rule, these were rich boyar estates. The boyars even secretly seduced the peasants, gave money for calculation. They left the whole villages! So, to support the serving nobility, "reserved summers" began to be applied. This practice led in the late 16th and early 17th centuries to a massive famine provoked by lean years. Cases of cannibalism have been recorded. The nobles could not provide grain to the peasants, but they could not move to other estates. Troubles began in the country, the dynasty after the "descendant of the emperor" ingloriously stopped, and interventionists invaded the country. After Grozny, the country's security "for many years to come" was a big question.
    Before moving on to Stalin, let's clarify the nuance of the title “Tsar”. Firstly, they are crowned with the kingdom, i.e. this is power "from God." Secondly, the carrier of power from God is a sacred figure. Thirdly, it is from Grozny that such an idea of ​​power is introduced when the serfs (slaves) of the tsar are everything from the noble nobility. Hence, the clarification of the title "autocrat".
    So, Stalin. On closer inspection, we see the same enslavement of the peasantry as a consequence of episodes of hunger. People's Commissars and the Politburo tremble anxiously in their places under pain of the highest disgrace. In the country, the personality cult of the Leader, with the specification "Father of all nations." And finally, a squabble for power in the "inner circle", after the death of the owner. It would seem that the 16th and 20th centuries ... Coincidence? “I don't think so!”
    A bit of lyrics. No one denies the merits of Stalin: the country has made a breakthrough in development. However, for some reason no one wants to notice the fact that the entire Stalinist USSR lived according to a mobilization plan. Industrialization, collectivization, war, reconstruction of the country, nuclear project. The price of such a mobilization came out very high:
    - a decline in the pace of development in the 70s and stagnation and collapse in the 80s. Even mathematically, the higher the peak of tension, the deeper the drop will be, since the quality and strength of the people are not unlimited. Therefore, it turns out that not a single dictator or king with unlimited possibilities can ensure security and stability for many years to come.
    1. Bashibuzuk
      Bashibuzuk 20 February 2017 14: 18
      +1
      All this is not interesting, Klaus.
      There is no need for anything.
      Firstly, all these traditional fictions on the water are written with a pitchfork. What the article says.
      Secondly, there is no reason to drag Stalin here.
      Thirdly, is there any confidence that you own absolutely reliable material? And if not, then there is no need to refine oneself in “liberalism” under the guise of historical justice.
      ...
      Your words - ".. the fools will remain with their ..." - yours.
      Well, happily stay.
  27. Seryj2
    Seryj2 17 February 2017 20: 19
    +3
    Perhaps this is the actual minimum, which is supposed to know about Ivan IV the Terrible to every educated person.

    The trouble of our time is that the current minimum knowledge about any Russian historical figure is extremely political. The works of hundreds of historians, archivists, archaeologists and many others are required to study and illuminate the activities of such a person as Ivan the Terrible for science. And even more effort is required in order to familiarize the people with the results of the work of scientific researchers. Previously, and indeed now, cinema, theater, books, and newspaper articles were used for this purpose. Now they have added the Internet and television.
    And what? Every year, fewer and fewer people, especially young people, know at least something about our history and culture. Nobody teaches them and doesn’t teach anything. Why? Because it is unprofitable.
    As a result, articles like this are a revelation to most. Wow, what a king / prince / secretary general / president was! Ah, here it is! This is not true. It’s fundamentally wrong.
    It is necessary to immediately abandon the principle of deideologization of the state. It is necessary as soon as possible to develop a unified, comprehensive, carefully developed set of measures to organize the historical and state-patriotic education of society. Include in it both events for the study of historical and cultural heritage, as well as ways to popularize this very heritage. State order for films, books, games, images of heroes. Careful work on the publication of books of not only scientific, but also scientific and educational character. The creation of hundreds of thousands of clubs, clubs, all kinds of youth movements, directly involved in the promotion and popularization of our rich heritage.
    Such a government policy is possible, but will require not only a lot of money, but also a systematic approach to controlling the media, the curriculum, the Internet, and literature. Plus work with personnel - scientists, writers, screenwriters, directors, bloggers, etc., etc. And the necessary, albeit dirty and despised by everyone (for some reason) work on clearing the Augean stables of modern pseudo-art, the present rotten pseudo-intelligentsia and the numerous rot that has accumulated in domineering and near-snow structures.
    Then our children will know their heroes, their history and be proud of their country.
  28. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 18 February 2017 09: 27
    0
    This is of course all good, but it is even better to supplement with links to historical documents.
  29. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 20 February 2017 12: 18
    +3
    These are Russian blocks: Ivan the Third, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, Moscow Princes, Alexander the Third, Lenin, Stalin, the Sovereigns who brought our Fatherland to a new level, which cannot be said about contemporaries with almost 25 million CITIZENS OF RUSSIA living below the poverty line, snickering at oligarchs and officials, all the liberal trash that these “HUSBANDs” did, Catherine forgive them, they couldn’t do, that’s where the howl, screeching and sputtering saliva, WITHOUT.
  30. neoshef
    neoshef 20 February 2017 13: 19
    +1
    Apparently, some hardened "historians" who listen only to our ill-wishers will have to rewrite a lot of what was written by the Germans and called our history.
  31. Zheleznostop
    Zheleznostop 20 February 2017 15: 59
    +2
    Quote: Al1977
    Quote: kouldoom
    Of course England well discredited him that even ours consider him a bloody sadist.

    Isn't he a sadist? Is Malyuta Skuratov the kindest person? And why did this name become a household name?
    And what liberals in the USSR when I first found out about him?

    For the Tatis, who were ready at every opportunity, the hem to lift up before the Swedes, Poles, Livonians and other wickedness, Ivan and Malyuta were sadists. How Joseph and Lawrence were sadists for the rushers of their time.
  32. WarriorWolf
    WarriorWolf 20 February 2017 16: 49
    +3
    John IV Vasilievich Grozny is the most slandered ruler not only in Russia, but also in the whole world ... If you compare without equivocations the period of the reign of Grozny and some Mandelstam from Europe, then John is the lamb and liberal of the Middle Ages !!!
    1. activator
      activator 20 February 2017 21: 46
      0
      Quote: Warrior Wolf
      John IV Vasilievich the Terrible - the most slandered ruler not only in Russia, but throughout the world

      In my opinion such nicknames as "formidable" do not give ushlepok.
      1. WarriorWolf
        WarriorWolf 21 February 2017 04: 46
        0
        Essno a hundred!
  33. michajlo
    michajlo 20 February 2017 21: 42
    +2
    Greetings to all members of the forum!

    The article pleased the soul, as a very characteristic large number of comments.
    Unfortunately, for many reasons, we unfortunately DO NOT KNOW the history of our true Russia, Russia, Russian and Slavic tribes, for many reasons!
    With all that is really existing and "as it were recognized, written" by various foreign historians, "History of the Russian Empire" MOST DISTORTED for the sake of "Western Enlightened Peoples" and Western rulers.
    And really ALL RUSSIAN RULERS, as already written above to me, which Mother Russia was EXTENDED, EXTENDED, STRENGTHENED, Western and later “Russian” historians are slandered, described AS SHOWERS, BLOODHOUSES and TYRANS ...
    I was born in 1960, I remember from childhood and school that Stalin and Beria were, according to Khrushchev's "exposure of the personality cult", bloody tyrants ?! And then in my 10-20-30 years, I still did not understand why if Stalin was a "bloody dictator", but on the windshields of trucks, buses, passenger cars, a small photo of Stalin was attached to many drivers?
    But it turned out that common people, workers, for some reason, WERE NOT AFRAID TO OPENLY attach a photo of Stalin (in the 60-90-s and after the 2000-th)but, besides official events, none of the common people put on sight the photos of Lenin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, not to mention Gorbachev, Yeltsin!
    That is in life, ordinary citizens with secondary and primary education, not having read all the works of historians, newspapers and magazines, not having the academic degrees of candidates and doctors of historical sciences, BETTER THAN OTHERS in real deeds and accomplishments, they appreciated and respected the "tyrant" of JV Stalin for what he had done for Russia and the USSR.
    Now I am 56, and it seems to me (or am I still mistaken now?), I began to understand a lot already after 40, and began to think about what the "next sons of the people" broadcast from the stands, and that as a result, after 5-10-15 years, the people themselves (not “sons and servants of the people”) GOT THE CONSEQUENCE of past promises and appeals?
    And that is precisely why personalities such as Ivan the Terrible, Stalin, and other prominent leaders of the country will be called "Western and democratic historians" called BLOODY TYRANS, KILLERS, etc.
    And about the calls of other members of the forum to return to Russia the PEOPLE'S STATE IDEOLOGY, I can only support these patriotic calls!
    Because in my opinion the current OLIGARCHIC RUSSIAN AUTHORITY more often only uses patriotic appeals and cries, but essentially common people themselves as it was and remains in the eyes and actions of officials (municipal and state), mayors, governors, police officers, prosecutors and others,
    it’s just “mob, dirt, and bastard”, and besides “stay bastard”, poor salaries and pensions, he’s people are NOT MUCH GREAT!

    And under rulers such as Grozny, Stalin, the country of ROSLA was hard, a lot of losses, but citizens knew what they were working for and endured hardships because there was both food and the future.
    Now Only the oligarchs, government officials, and deputies of the State Duma have a "reliable future and a rich table" in Russia, while the common people have "only hardships and deprivations"!
    And the “PRESENT history of the country”, no matter how unsightly it is in some places, WE NEED TO KNOW US ALL! Well, it’s not worth embellishing and changing every 10-20 years THE WHOLE HISTORY FOR THE PLEASURE of the “current power layer”.
    So I personally hope that over time (not today and not under Putin) in Russia, monuments will be restored to both Stalin and certain outstanding figures of the Soviet, tsarist and medieval era!
    And of course, people like Mannerheim and others, coupled with Gorbachov or Yeltsin, are not included in my concept of “patriotic Russian statesmen”.
    Michael.
    1. WarriorWolf
      WarriorWolf 21 February 2017 04: 54
      +1
      Mannerheim served as a RI, so let him put a monument in the Tsar’s village, but! With a description of all his exploits and "exploits" - this is also our story and of course it must be remembered, the truth must be written about Alexandra, Nicholas I, about Nicholas, that in difficult times Russia was saved by the people and rulers from the people and / or who were always with the people, you need the ideology you're right. and that nothing will work out under the current regime, you are also right ... For something really important to happen, our country needs a shock ...
    2. silver_roman
      silver_roman 22 February 2017 12: 42
      +1
      Write everything correctly. Only unfortunately everything is more complicated. You urge to know your story, but pick up modern history textbooks and you will be horrified.
      For this, as you and other forum users wrote, we need a NATIONAL ideology, which is de facto prohibited by our constitution. And history will grow out of ideology. I am sure that the true - true story is little known to anyone, but everyone chooses what to believe. The main thing is to have faith in your country.
  34. Old military officer
    Old military officer 21 February 2017 08: 06
    +2
    That is precisely this information that should be in history textbooks at a Russian school, and not the nonsense that exists now. But for this it is necessary to restore the Soviet system of education and, therefore, ...
  35. Berg berg
    Berg berg 21 February 2017 13: 11
    +1
    We are the descendants of Great Tartaria, for which they do not like us. The greatness of our family is so great that it spread from the borders of Europe to America itself and to China! Where our great-great-grandfathers built the Great Wall to protect our borders! How many attempts were made by raids to destroy our lands from both Europeans and southern Turkic nomadic pastoral tribes. That’s why the proverb across the world came from our enemies - “What we don’t do with them, how we don’t try to conquer everything in Tartarara!” That is, they found their grave there - in Tartaria, the present Great and Mighty Russia!
  36. silver_roman
    silver_roman 22 February 2017 12: 36
    +1
    All right. The more real good deeds for the sovereign - the Tsar, the more dirt pours on him from the lips of liberals.
    The same goes for Stalin. but Peter 1 is racial to the whole world, although with it there was a huge population decline with all the consequences ... and "flowing in" (contributing to this loss).
    I just wanted to note one thing from the author, and I’m sure he intentionally wrote like this: why does he call Russia of that time Russia?
  37. Military Builder
    Military Builder 22 February 2017 13: 50
    0
    Grozny-center, of course, will not be opened, because he did not ruin the country and did not trade his homeland.
    As M. Zadornov said: "If the media and the government scold someone, then this is a good person."
  38. Navigator Basov
    Navigator Basov 22 February 2017 23: 18
    0
    We reprinted some alternatively gifted sectarian sorcerer, not a single proof, everything was sucked out of a finger. From one extreme (tyrant, murderer, adulterer) - to the other: did not drink, did not smoke, did not eat, did not sleep. At least the 3 paragraph is easily refuted simply by the fact that Kazan was taken the third time. About the transfer of the capital to Veliky Novgorod in general some kind of darkness. Yes, if someone denigrates the tsar, is that how they save the situation, instead of one lie they slip the other?