Kolchak Passion

To begin, let us respect the opinions of other people and learn to accept someone else's point of view, rather than waving a red flag and shouting: “Whoever is not with us is against us.”

Here came a note that a “war criminal” to Admiral A. V. Kolchak was set up with a memorial plaque. But there were so many comments that it was as if an atomic bomb had happened.

https://topwar.ru/103657-v-peterburge-ustanovlena-memorialnaya-doska-admiralu-kolchaku.html

So, before you express your opinion about this person and the situation as a whole, you, dear readers of “VO”, read this article: https://www.gazeta.ru/culture/2007/01/16/a_1263129.shtml.

Read it carefully, please. Because in part I will build on her. I agree with many of the conclusions and opinions of the author of the article, but there are some of my thoughts.

Do not equate Kolchak to Mannerheim

Yes, Alexander Vasilyevich, without a doubt, a controversial figure, however, I respect him for the fact that he died for his country, did not begin to emigrate from the country, although, it seems to me, he could leave, leaving everything behind.

So, opponents of Kolchak operate with such arguments:

1. "He is a war criminal."

Well, the winner imposes any conditions to the vanquished. He is criticized for the methods used by some of his subordinates. Which are openly supported by foreign governments. And, in fact, Kolchak was simply not a decree. Yes, perhaps he had lost heart and could have reinned Ataman Semenov. But what would be the consequences? Well, what about our “reds” - are they white and fluffy? As the words of Chapaev quoted in the article show, they are not fighting in white gloves. And the red terror that the Bolsheviks have unleashed, and the surplus-development simply cannot be compared with the crimes of Kolchak. By the way, what about the money Lenin received for his revolution? I hope it is not necessary to remind you that the revolution, and in fact the “knife in the back”, was the hardest blow for Russia? And who is this war criminal?

2. “Well, let's now put on monuments to Hitler, Vlasov, Krasnov (underline).”

Argument. To level real war criminals and collaborators with a man who did not depart from the oath he gave to his country, which he vowed to defend, and died for it. But what about Denikin, if he had not gone into the white emigration, would he have also been a war criminal? Again I will focus on my thought that Kolchak is a war criminal only because he lost, and no more. And the methods of red did not differ from the methods of Kolchak. But Mannerheim, who studied with Nicholas II, is really a traitor. He betrayed his friend just because he wanted power and independence for his country. He did not even want to influence the situation in the Russian Empire.

3. “Feats and achievements? No, have not heard".

Yes, if not for his role as the supreme ruler of Russia, maybe there would not have been so many passions for him, they would have been for some other "supreme" one. Everyone can find on the Internet materials about his achievements as a researcher and innovator. By the way, successfully used in the USSR. And the status of a “war criminal” did not hinder at all ... Opponents point blank do not want to notice and see this. And it is worth noting that the Russian Federation, as the full successor of the USSR, has acquired all its old war criminals. And against the background of the democratic ecstasy that was going on in the 90s, they could quietly rehabilitate Kolchak quietly, but, probably, then everyone was not up to it. And now, it seems to me, even recall historical justice is very difficult: the public is on the alert.

4. "This is a provocation and an attempt by" liberastov "and the State Department to destabilize the country."

About what and speech, the people are already beginning to confuse God's gift with scrambled eggs. Again, only my opinion, here the concepts of historical justice are confused and impudently replaced. So, if during the revolutionary period the power of the Soviets said that Kolchak is a war criminal, then it should not change that way. But Tukhachevsky and Beria can be rehabilitated. And let the USSR no 25 years.

I will remind once again how, by whom and by what methods the revolution in Russia began. And for me personally, there is no greater crime than a deliberate desire to betray the country in such a difficult period. And everyone already knows that the situation with bread in Petrograd was created artificially. But this is a different topic. It is not necessary to whitewash and blacken others just because you were born under the USSR and you were told so at school. History is not divided into black and white, it has a lot of gray moments, and in my opinion there are most of them.

PS First of all, respect the opinions of other people. And take another point of view. She has the right to exist.

Comments

[Danil Laryon]

I absolutely do not care on this board

[210ox]

Actually, like many others. I agree with the author. Kolchak is a victim of that time. He served faithfully in tsarist Russia, after renouncing, he swore an oath to the Provisional Government and ended in Siberia .. He defended his homeland from an external enemy and he did not betray He saw the revolutionary terror in the Baltic and in Sevastopol. He made his choice. Put yourself in his place, maybe you will understand. The man was clearly not deprived of his mind and talented.

[Basil50]

210
This is something new. Talent lets you do anything? If only there was enough talent?
Kolchak was absolutely average in talents, he simply stood out from the background of others. And especially did not shine with the mind, drugs were not allowed. The only thing he stood out with was aplomb and ambition. He was appointed * dictator * of RUSSIA for these * qualities *. Entente smart was not required, only performers. By the way, Denikin’s example, as soon as he dared * get the opinion * of him * Entente * changed to Wrangel. And she replaced Kolchak * Entente * because of irrepressible sadism and robberies, including * former * and merchants, all of whom it was possible to take at least something *. In this, he even surpassed Ungern.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

So average in talents that, according to his plans for mine productions, they defended St. Petersburg during World War II?

[Diana Ilyina]

Lieutenant Teterin Today, 09:14 ↑
So average in talents that, according to his plans for mine productions, they defended St. Petersburg during World War II?

Oh how ?! And the lines of Stalin and Molotov accidentally built not according to his drawings ?!

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Dear Diana, what’s the relationship? Marine officer Kolchak has the construction of ground fortifications. Would you use logic at least sometimes ...

[Diana Ilyina]

Lieutenant Teterin Today, 15:41 ↑
Dear Diana, what does the naval officer Kolchak have to do with the construction of ground fortifications. Would you use logic at least sometimes ...

Well, turn on the logic, at least sometimes! What kind of mining according to the plans for mine productions of Kolchak can be discussed if your adorable Kolchak sold these plans to the British with giblets ?! Or do you keep Stalin for cancer so that he accepts some plans that the British know about ?! Yes, and the Germans mostly mined the Baltic with the Finns, our mine fields practically didn’t play any role there, because the Germans didn’t hold any serious naval forces there, except for two Finnish armadillos. But the Germans just mined the Baltic Sea so that our boats scraped along the mines.
So your attempts to look smart are futile, as are your attempts to whitewash the White Guard trash!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

attempts to whitewash the White Guard trash!

Dian, what if without emotion? What is the author of the article wrong, specifically?

[Diana Ilyina]

Ingvar 72 Today, 18:55 ↑ New
Dian, what if without emotion? wink What is the author of the article wrong, specifically? hi

What is wrong ?! Well, let's do the main thing.
1. An attempt to whitewash a black dog, why is she ?! Why is the myth of the "noble" white officers being strongly instilled lately ?!
So the first thesis from the author:

Oh, by the way, what about the money that Lenin received for his revolution? I hope it’s not necessary to remind that the revolution, but in fact the “knife in the back”, was the hardest blow for Russia? And who is the war criminal here?

Initially a false promise. The revolution, and in fact the coup (since there was no change in the socio-political system) took place in February 1917, and the Bolsheviks were not there at all, except for the Bolsheviks whoever donned a red bow, by the way among them there were members of the royal family! I hope you will not argue with this fact ?! I will not in this case deny and dispute the receipt of money by the Bolsheviks and specifically Lenin for the revolution, simply because the collapse of the empire occurred in February (and in fact much earlier) in 1917, and not in October! About this unfortunate fact, without exception, all the bakers are modestly silent.
2. The second thesis of author:

Argument. To equate real war criminals and collaborators with a man who did not depart from the oath he had given to his country, which he had sworn to defend, and died for her.

Again FALSE, FALSE and FALSE again! Kolchak betrayed the oath more than once. The first, in fact, the February coup! For observing the oath of allegiance to the king and the fatherland, he was obliged to oppose the rebellious interim government! Do we see anything similar in his actions ?! NO, we are not. For the second time he betrays not only the "Tsar-Father" himself, but also Russia as such, going into the service of the English crown! For the third time, he betrays the oath by declaring himself "the supreme ruler"! Will you argue ?!
3. Thesis three:

Everyone can find on the Internet materials about his achievements as a researcher and innovator.

FALSE again! On the Internet, you can write something like that, read "Wikipedia", so not only must a memorial plaque be placed on him, but he must be canonized immediately! In fact, his "successes" in the Russo-Japanese war boil down to only one thing - he took part in it. ALL! He did not perform any special feats, he did not set minefields on which the Japanese battleships were blown up, in the breakthrough of the squadron he was a lieutenant on "Diana" and did not show any special heroism, like "Diana" herself. He did not command the Northern Expedition, and therefore the success of this expedition does not belong to him!
4. Thesis four:

It is not necessary to whitewash and blacken others just because you were born under the USSR and you were told so at school. History is not divided into black and white, it has a lot of gray moments, and in my opinion there are most of them.

Again a lie! "Gray moments", forget everything you were taught in school, everything is "not true", etc. An excellent excuse, in such a way Vlasov automatically becomes not a traitor to Russia, but its "savior", you do not need to see its white and black sides, he has a "gray" side! And here it is, woo-la, the criminal becomes a "hero"!

Well, refute me if you can ?! Everything is clear, without emotions, I clearly explain to you ?!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

black male

Actually the dog was white!

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Why is the myth of the "noble" white officers being strongly instilled lately ?!

White officers were clearly more humane to the civilian population than red.

Quote: Diana Ilyina

occurred in February 1917 and the Bolsheviks were not there at all

The author mentions the actions of Lenin and the KO before the revolution: Diana, the RSDLP party (and the Bolsheviks were in it, there was a split later) was engaged in subversive activities, including among the troops. Imagine such actions in 42nd ?. What would be the reaction? Nikolashka fucked up the country with his weakness, Stalin saved it, even if innocent people fell into "chips". It was in principle. In case of defeat in the Second World War, there would be hundreds of times more victims. And this is a fundamental difference - those who shout about "bloody" Stalinism are either enemies or fools. If Nikolai had behaved like Stalin, the case would have been limited to a maximum of several tens of thousands, but not millions of those killed in the civil war, and not the loss of territories.

Quote: Diana Ilyina

and again FALSE! Kolchak betrayed the oath more than once.

Frunze did not betray the oath? What about Chapaev? The whole country split, it was very difficult to understand the correctness of the currents. And the currents artificially multiplied!
By the way - Putin also swore an oath, to be completely honest.

Quote: Diana Ilyina

On the Internet and you can’t write such a thing,

Dian, let's be honest again - where do you get all the info? I think in the same place where I am - in the internet.

Quote: Diana Ilyina

in such a way Vlasov automatically becomes not a traitor to Russia, but its "savior"

Judge by deeds. Vlasov betrayed the country to foreigners. Everything, absolutely everything. who decides to improve his country with bayonets of enemies - enemies. Kolchak was not like that. He accepted "help", no more. Is Assad an enemy and despot of his people? But he accepts Russia's help. Iraq is another matter - there Saddam's "regime" was artificially changed from the outside, by military force. In Russia on the 17th it was not. There was a riot, there was turmoil, and in a warring country. Any (!) Revolutionary is better suited for the role of Vlasov.
So Diana, let's separate flies (Vlasov and Krasnov) from cutlets (Kolchak, Drozdov, Kappel)
With respect to you, Igor.

[Diana Ilyina]

Ingvar 72 Today, 20:18 ↑
Actually the dog was white! wink

In general, after this phrase to refute everything else, it makes no sense! To be honest, laziness to copy, then refute, etc. That’s real, now LAZY, and there’s no extra time. I can only say one thing, in my eyes you fell almost below the plinth, I did NOT EXPECT, I had a better opinion of you!

P.S. I could not resist, but this phrase killed the last respect for you.

White officers were clearly more humane to the civilian population than red.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

in my eyes you fell almost below the plinth

And I don’t change my opinion about you, write off everything to your bad mood and not the desire to argue. And to argue reasonably. Logic - it either is. or she is not.

[Gardamir]

White officers clearly were more humane to the civilian population than red

The Reds were from the people, but why should white love serfs? You and the people do not consider people for people. Cancel pensions soon, free education ...

[Ulan]

Well, you piled up. Assad, unlike Kolchak, is the LEGAL ruler (president) of the country, and Kolchak is an impostor.
Assad HAS the right to ask and accept help from other states and his country, he does not pay for it, unlike, again, from Kolchak.
Frunze here what side?
Chapaev is a simple non-soldier and his guilt is hundreds of times less than the guilt of one of the few top commanders in the empire and close to the emperor and kind to him.

[Lord blacwood]

Quote: Ingvar 72

White officers were clearly more humane to the civilian population than red.

Another myth. Kolchakites brutally suppressed popular uprisings, destroying entire villages.

Quote: Ingvar 72

Judge by business. Vlasov betrayed the country to foreigners.

And what did the British and Japanese do in the lands controlled by Kolchak?

Quote: Ingvar 72

Kolchak was not like that. He accepted "help", no more.

In the form of the Japanese, who planned to include the Far East in Japan?

Quote: Ingvar 72

Assad is an enemy and despot to his people?

Assad is the legitimate ruler, and Kolchak illegally accepted the title of "Supreme Ruler", which no one gave him.

Quote: Ingvar 72

Any (!) Revolutionary is better suited for the role of Vlasov.

Kolchak is best suited, as he collaborated with the Entente countries, the purpose of which was to dismember Russia into a handful of state entities.

[Simpsonian]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Well, refute me if you can ?!

Below under the "vegetarian" are excerpts from your leader's quote book, your class managerial opinion is of interest ... Well, refute them if you can. Only clearly and without emotions ... For nothing that then they made a mummy or a stuffed animal from him ...

[Bloodsucker]

Can you stop here the myths about your whites, how do humanists write?
After the departure of the Anglo-French invaders, power in the north of Russia passed into the hands of the White Guard General Miller. He not only continued, but intensified repression and terror, trying to stop the rapidly developing process of "Bolshevization of the masses." Their most inhumane personification was the forced labor camp in Yokanga, which one of the prisoners described as "the most brutal, sophisticated method of exterminating people by a slow, painful death." Here are excerpts from the memoirs of those who miraculously managed to survive in this hell:

“The dead lay on the bunks with the living, and the living were no better than the dead: dirty, covered with scabs, in torn rags, decomposing alive, they presented a nightmare picture.”

By the time Iokangi was freed from whites, out of a thousand and a half prisoners, there were 576 people out of which 205 could no longer move.
The book of P. Golub cites facts and documents testifying to the fact that “barges” and “death trains” were actively and massively used by the White Guards. When in the fall of 1918 on the eastern front they began to suffer defeat from the Red Army, “barges” and “death trains” with prisoners of prisons and concentration camps were pulled to Siberia and then to the Far East.

When the "death trains" were in Primorye, they were visited by employees of the American Red Cross. One of them, R. Buchani, wrote in his diary:

“Until the moment we found this terrible caravan in Nikolsk, 800 passengers died of starvation, dirt and disease ... I saw the corpses of people whose bodies were corroded by parasites during their life until they died after months of painful torture from hunger, dirt and cold. I swear to God, I’m not exaggerating! .. In Siberia, horror and death at every step on such a scale that would shake the most callous heart ... ”

HORROR and death - that is what the White Guard generals carried to the people who rejected the pre-revolutionary regime.

[Simpsonian]

Quote: Bug_Bug

Judah the wise sayings of the cannibal ..
“... Great plan! Finish it with Dzerzhinsky. Under the guise of “green” (we will later dump them) we will go 10–20 miles and outweigh the kulaks, priests, landowners. Bonus: 100.000 p. for the hanged man ... "

December 24 - 27, 1917 (Lenin V.I. Complete collection. Op. T. 35. P. 200, 201, 204. - From the work “How to organize a competition?”)

“The war is not for life, but for the deaths of the rich and the henchmen, bourgeois intellectuals ... they must be dealt with, at the slightest violation ... They will be sent to prison in one place ... In another they will put them to clean the outhouses. In the third, they will be provided with yellow tickets upon serving the cell ... In the fourth, they will be shot on the spot ... The more diverse, the better, the richer the general experience ... ”
June 3, 1918 (Volkogonov D.A. Lenin. Political portrait.
Lenin handwritten order to the chairman of the Baku Cheka S. Ter-Gabrielyan)


"... Can you still tell Thera to have everything ready to burn Baku completely, in case of an invasion, and to print it in print in Baku."
August 9, 1918 (Lenin V.I. Poln. Sobr. Soch. T. 50.P. 143-144).


“Penza, the Executive Committee. ... conduct merciless mass terror against the kulaks, priests and White Guards; dubious lock up in a concentration camp outside the city. "
(Latyshev A.G. Declassified Lenin. M., 1996.P. 57.).


“To comrades Kuraev, Bosch, Minkin and other Penza communists. Comrades! The revolt of the five volosts of kulak should lead to ruthless suppression. The interest of the entire revolution requires this, for now the "final decisive battle" with the kulach has been taken. Sample must be given. Hang (certainly hang, so that people can see) at least 100 notorious kulaks, rich men, bloodsuckers. Post their names. Take away all the bread from them. Appoint hostages - according to yesterday’s telegram. To make sure that people see, tremble, know, shout for hundreds of miles: they will strangle and strangle the bloodsucker of kulaks. Wire receipt and execution. Your Lenin. "
August 22, 1918 (Lenin V.I. Poln. Sobr. Soch. T. 50.P. 165).


“Saratov, (to the authorized person of the People's Commissariat of Food) Paykes. ... I advise you to appoint your bosses and shoot conspirators and hesitant, without asking anyone and avoiding idiotic red tape. "
September 10, 1918 (Lenin V.I. Poln. Sobr. Soch. T.50. S. 178).


“Sviyazhsk, to Trotsky. Surprised and alarmed by the slowdown in operations against Kazan, especially if it was correctly informed me that you have the full ability to destroy the enemy with artillery. In my opinion, you can’t spare the city and postpone it longer, because merciless extermination is necessary ... ”

June 3, 1919 (Lenin V.I. Poln. Sobr. Soch. T. 50.P. 335).

“As for foreigners, I advise you not to rush expulsion. Isn't it better to go to a concentration camp ... "

(Latyshev A.G. Declassified Lenin. M., 1996, S. 56).

"All those living on the territory of the RSFSR of foreign nationals who are from the ranks of the bourgeoisie of those states that are conducting hostile and military actions against us, must be imprisoned in concentration camps between the ages of 17 and 55 ..."

November 19, 1919 (Lenin V.I. Poln. Sobr. Soch. T. 39.P. 315).


“... farmers do not all understand that free trade in bread is a state crime. “I made bread, this is my product, and I have the right to sell it,” - says the peasant, out of habit, in antiquity. And we say that this is a state crime. ”
Lenin, August 26, 1921 (Lenin, V.I.


"T. Lunacharsky ... I advise you to put all theaters in a coffin. Education should not be engaged in theater, but literacy. ”
March 19, 1922 (Bulletin of the Central Committee of the CPSU. 1990. No. 4. P. 190-193).


“... I come to the unconditional conclusion that we must now give the most decisive and merciless battle to the Black-Hundred clergy and suppress its resistance with such cruelty that they will not forget this for several decades ... The more representatives of the reactionary clergy and reactionary bourgeoisie will succeed shoot about it, the better. ”
Lenin, August 1920 (Latyshev A.G. Declassified Lenin. M., 1996).


“... take military action, that is, try to punish Latvia and Estonia by military means (for example, “on the shoulders” of Balakhovich cross the border somewhere 1 mile away and hang 100-1000 of their officials and rich there) ”.
May 17, 1922 (Lenin V.I. Poln. Sobr. Soch. T. 45.P. 190).


“... The court must not eliminate the terror; to promise this would be self-deception or deception, but to justify and legitimize it in principle, clearly, without falsehood and without embellishment. ”

Quotes from Lenin's notes:

"Ivashek" must be fooled.
We won't seize power without fooling "Ivashki"
"And I don't care about Russia ..."
"... So that they would not dare to think about any resistance for several decades."
"The court should not eliminate terror, but justify and legitimize it in principle"
"The intelligentsia is not the brain of the nation, but shit"
"We need to encourage the energy and mass character of terror"
“Under the guise of the 'greens' (we will blame them later) we will walk 10-20 versts and outweigh the kulaks, priests, landowners. Bonus: 100.000 RUB for the hanged man "
"... the more bourgeoisie and clergy we manage to shoot on this occasion, the better"

well, and where without a cannibal .. demon of revolution ...
"... We must turn Russia into a desert inhabited by white blacks, to whom we will give such a tyranny that the most terrible despots of the East never dreamed of. The only difference is that this tyranny will not be on the right, but on the left, and not white, but red , for we will shed such streams of blood, before which all the human losses of capitalist wars will shudder and pale. "

that’s all the questions themselves have disappeared !!!!! normally thinking person !!!!!!

[Ulan]

In piled up ... "forty barrels of prisoners."

[Simpsonian]

Quote: Ulan

In piled up ... "forty barrels of prisoners."

stuck, huh? my uncle was sitting on toxin mushrooms ... "but the men didn't even know," they followed such instructions and sat on something too
Kerensky, who was sitting on his knees, was sitting on coke ...

[Varangian]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

HORROR and death - that is what the White Guard generals carried to the people who rejected the pre-revolutionary regime.

You now measure with whom more ... oh, sorry, who tortured whom more.
It is clear to an adequate person that both sides were cruel, a civil war, there is no other way.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Evidence, my dear, do you have sales of these plans?

[Stas157]

Both the Reds are good and the White ones too! This is one and the same people, and there, and there are heroes! Patriots! By the way, there were more White Patriots. After all, they are internationals red, for Lenin, Russia was nothing compared to the World Revolution. Remember then the main slogan of the Bolsheviks: "Workers of all countries, unite!" That is why Lenin so easily went to the treacherous Brest peace.
I agree with the author of the article, it’s enough to break spears about who is more right Red or White. This is our common history and our common ancestors. What matters to me is what kind of motivation people had; a person was a patriot or a traitor to Russia. Kolchak, whether someone likes it or does not like it, was definitely a patriot, even despite the fact that he might be mistaken in something.

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: Stas157

By the way, there were more White Patriots.

these are those dubious qualities of "patriots" that later were in every gang, after in the troops of Hitler and in the Far East near Mikado? Are these "patriots"?

Quote: Stas157

After all, they are internationals red, for Lenin, Russia was nothing compared to the World Revolution. Remember then the main slogan of the Bolsheviks: "Workers of all countries, unite!" That is why Lenin so easily went to the treacherous Brest peace.

The stupidity written by you compare the stupidity that White type Krasnova and Shkuro in the service of Hitler, "patriots"
You do not know what the Brest Peace is and why so, and not otherwise, keep quiet.
"... The day before yesterday, February 22, we received from the German government serious
we can say atrocious, peace conditions, and the Germans demand the adoption of these
conditions at forty-eight hours.
...
The present situation in connection with the German offensive and our flight
troops, we evaluate this: overthrowing our imperialists, we, thanks
the slow pace of the revolutionary movement in the West, our instability
troops and the unprecedented predation of the German imperialists, temporarily fell into
paws of foreign imperialism, against which we must now prepare
forces to organize a war in the hope of unleashing
revolutionary forces in the West, which, in our opinion, is inevitable. For
such training requires minimal respite, which even
brutal world. In no case can illusions be made. Need to have courage
face reality and admit that we temporarily fell into the clutches
German imperialism. These considerations guided the All-Russian
The Central Executive Committee of the Soviets, which decided today at 3 a.m.
make peace on atrocious conditions and instructing the Council of People's Commissars to send a delegation
to Brest, which is done today. The CEC decided that only under such conditions
it will be possible to maintain Soviet power. In the meantime, prepare and again
prepare to organize a holy war against German imperialism. "
("A note on a direct wire to the People's Secretariat of the Ukrainian
Of the Soviet Republic "v.4, page 37.)

It is not for us who have experienced the shame of the Brest Peace to sing the Versailles
contract
I. Stalin. ("Report to the 13th Party Congress on the work of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks" v. 302, p. XNUMX.)

[Stas157]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

these are those dubious qualities of "patriots" that later were in every gang, after in the troops of Hitler and in the Far East near Mikado? Are these "patriots"?

Quote: The Bloodthirster

The stupidity written by you compare the stupidity that White type Krasnova and Shkuro in the service of Hitler, "patriots"

Kolchak was not in the service of Hitler! No need to invent! No need to get dirty! If you take your logic into account, you can just as well assume that if the Whites won the Civil, then some of the Reds who immigrated would probably be in the service of Hitler.

Quote: The Bloodthirster

You do not know what the Brest Peace is and why so, and not otherwise, keep quiet.

The fact that you brought me below is just an excuse for concluding the treacherous Brest peace. Traitors ALWAYS have good reason for betrayal, but the essence of this does not change! To the credit of the Bolsheviks, it must be said that half was against the conclusion of the Brest-Litovsk Treaty, but Lenin nevertheless dragged this decision. Stalin also considered the Brest Treaty a disgrace. And I’m sure, if it weren’t for the authoritative figure of Lenin, he would have expressed himself more strongly!

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: Stas157

Kolchak was not in the service of Hitler! No need to invent! No need to get dirty!

To stain what? It is already soiled in the blood over the ears.
To invent what? There is no need to invent anything, in memory of the bloody English dog kolchak, they call PSOV in Siberia.
Would you run away to the WEST and what, who would you be, as part of whose troops would you try to invade Russia? Don’t wash the black male, it's late.

Quote: Stas157

. Traitors ALWAYS have good reason for betrayal, but the essence of this does not change!

You? Yes, how would you not chat, but the essence is one, treacherous.

Quote: Stas157

Lenin nevertheless dragged this decision. Stalin also considered the Brest Treaty a disgrace. And I’m sure, if it weren’t for the authoritative figure of Lenin, he would have expressed himself more strongly!

I don’t give a damn about the scribble that you got here, YOU WERE LET THE WORDS OF STALIN, and not your inventions, what and how Stalin believed.

[Ulan]

Kolchak brought the interventionists to Russia, and that’s it.

[Lord blacwood]

Quote: Stas157

To the credit of the Bolsheviks, it must be said that half was against the conclusion of the Brest-Litovsk Treaty, but Lenin nevertheless dragged this decision.

Lenin proposed peace with the Germans, since the country was exhausted by the war, and the Civil War was brewing (how can a war be waged under such conditions?). The project of Lenin was rejected by Trotsky.
As a result, after the successful German offensive, everyone recognized that peace was necessary, since the army could not wage war.

Quote: Stas157

Remember then the main slogan of the Bolsheviks: “Workers of all countries, unite!” That is why Lenin so easily went to the treacherous Brest peace.

Trotsky was in charge of the "world revolution" and precisely because of the idea of ​​a "world revolution" he did not want peace with Germany.

[Aleksander]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

The Central Executive Committee of the Soviets, which decided today at 3 atrocious world and instructed the Council of People's Commissars to send a delegation to Brest, which is done today. The CEC decided that only under such conditions save Soviet power

In how: not to save the country, not the Motherland, but your power! And for its preservation they decided ...... pay with the motherland! You brought interesting facts .... Yeah .... .

Rightly said President of Russia V.V. Putin about them:

We lost to the loser of Germany .... [b] And this is the result of the NATIONAL BETAILANCE OF THE COUNTRY'S MANAGEMENT

Do not subtract nor add

By the way, they promised a world without annexations and indemnities and, as always, the Ob.

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: Aleksander

In how: not to save the country, not the Motherland, but your power! And for its preservation they decided ...... to pay with the Motherland!

As always, the talker is talking nonsense, letters for more, shade sharper, download higher.
Politics is not your circus, and as it turned out, the Bolsheviks were right in doing so in those realities, and not otherwise.
So correct the saucepan and download further.

Quote: Aleksander

We lost to the losing Germany ....

Did you lose? More precisely, you White lost, despite the massive help from Germany, England, France and the USA.

[Aleksander]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

As always, the talker is talking nonsense, the letters are bigger, shade sharper, download higher. Politics is not your circus, and as it turned out, the Bolsheviks were right in doing so in those realities and not otherwise.

"Chatterbox-find for a spy" - how true! You, our chatty friend, told us that for the preservation of their power, the Bolsheviks decided to pay the motherland.

And you --.... approved the sale!

So who are you after that?

Come on, well, tell us, by the way, to us: who owns Novorossia: Russia or Ukraine created by the Kommopyr? Only without komboltovany, justifications, implications, explanations. Absolutely short and in one word: Russia or Ukraine..?

My answer is simple and clear: New Russia is RUSSIA. Answer in one word too.

Did you lose? More precisely, you White lost

My poorly read friend!
"We," said the PRESIDENT of Russia, Putin, elected by the people and entitled to speak on their behalf, in contrast to the lone comm.
And he said (I will repeat for those in the tank):

We lost to the loser of Germany .... And this is the result of the NATIONAL BETAILANCE OF THE CURRENT MANAGEMENT OF THE COUNTRY

So go with it. Have you heard about sepuk?

[Alf]

Quote: Aleksander

My answer is simple and clear: Novorossiya is RUSSIA. Answer in one word too.

New Russia is not Russia. This is a pseudo-state entity that itself does not know what it wants. If the LPR and the DPR considered themselves Russia, then they, following the example of the Crimea, held a referendum on accession in Russia. And they still hang out like violets in an ice-hole. And they want to live independently, and they shout, Russia, save.
Regarding the loser of Germany. Few people know why the Bolsheviks went to the Brest peace, so humiliating and unprofitable. If the German ultimatum had not been accepted, the German army would have continued the offensive, and there would have been nothing to stop it. And then we could talk about the complete loss of the country.
And about "Putin said" - he said a lot of things, about which knowledgeable people are ashamed of him. For example, that in the USSR there was no beef cattle breeding. He also did not say anything about the iPhone and the land and shelf they gave to China and Norway. And what did the wisest say about the frank facts of national betrayal of the country's interests in the 90s and under the rule of the bear cub? Nothing.

[Caretaker]

They held a referendum!

[Aleksander]

Quote: Alf

New Russia is not Russia. it a pseudo-state entity that itself does not know what it wants.

You insulted the Russian people, by the will of the commissars forcibly thrust into the so-called never existed. "Ukraine". In 1918-22, they clearly said: we are Russia (DKR). Why are they not in Russia, huh?
You did NOT answer the SIMPLE question: Is Novorossia Russia or Ukraine created by Kommopyr? BE AFRAID, clearly.

2 years ago they were told it was KhPP: first, a referendum on independence, then, after a couple of weeks, on joining Russia. Cheated. But no one in their right mind would have climbed against the powerful country of Ukraine, not hoping to enter Russia

Quote: Alf

Regarding the loser of Germany. Few people know why the Bolsheviks went to the Brest peace, so humiliating and unprofitable. If the German ultimatum had not been accepted, the German army would have continued the offensive, and there would have been nothing to stop it. And then we could talk about the complete loss of the country.

Why-it is said: to save POWER- for the destruction of legitimate authority! Paying by country.
The Germans captured everything that they wanted and where they had the strength to reach and spitting on the terms of the contract-who disturbed them? What is the "loss of the country", what kind of nonsense?
Germany in March 1918 ALREADY LIVED- in agony, 780 000 corpses of peaceful Germans HUNGER, collapsed production, battles for pro-trains from Ukraine, she had no strength to occupy anything else.
Serbia was completely FULLY occupied, so what? Missing, NO, GROWN territories.
And the Entente, even in the context of the Bolshevik's betrayal, ORDERED the invaders to leave Russia.

Quote: Alf

And about "Putin said" - so he said a lot of things, about which knowledgeable people are ashamed of him

Putin is a nationally elected supreme person of the state, expressing, accordingly, the opinion of the majority. To some minorities I do not like? These are their problems.

And he correctly said about the national traitors of the 1918 sample.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Alf

New Russia is not Russia

You did not understand the main thing - Novorossia did not mean today, but at the time of the 17th year. It was Russia, the same as the Kuban, as Siberia and the Urals.

Quote: Alf

And about "Putin said" -

And on this occasion I agree with you, but I think that this is not the time of revolution - we are on the brink of war.

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: Aleksander

PRESIDENT of Russia Putin, elected by the people and entitled to speak on his behalf, as opposed to a lone comm.

After this speech, Peskov was forced to note that this is a PRIVATE opinion, so do not confuse Putin with your stupidity.

Quote: Aleksander

My answer is simple and clear: Novorossiya is RUSSIA. Answer in one word too.

Yeah, Moldova is the same, Russia, try to refute. Transnistria is exactly Russia, try to refute
In general, you are a miserable sight, Mr. Moldavian dunno.

Quote: Aleksander

We lost to the loser of Germany .... And this is the result of the NATIONAL BETAILANCE OF THE CURRENT MANAGEMENT OF THE COUNTRY

Yes, the juveniles lost, then along with the entire Temporary, Kolchak, Denikin, and other crusader shobuly.
So the liberal accomplice of murderers, all these Kolchaks, Wrangelins, seed, red, skin, mothers
Antov and kappel, Russian first of all people, keep quiet.

[Aleksander]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

After this speech, Peskov was forced to note that this is a PRIVATE opinion, so do not confuse Putin with your stupidity.

Yours hallucinations No one is interested.

Quote: The Bloodthirster

Yeah, Moldova is the same, Russia, try to refute. Transnistria is exactly Russia, try to refute. In general, you miserable sight, Mr. Moldavian dunno.

You evade again, you meander our: I ask again: Novorossiya-Russia or the so-called Ukraine? Keep quiet Still would...

WHERE did you study, ignoramus? Bessarabia is yes, Russia, Transnistria is the Novorossiysk Territory of Russia

Quote: The Bloodthirster

Yes, the juveniles lost, then, together with the entire Temporary, Kolchak, Denikin and other Kransov shobulya. So the liberal accomplice of the killers, all these Kolchaks, Wrangelins, seed, red, skin, mothers
antovyh and kappel, Russian first of all people, keep quiet

When will you start writing in RUSSIAN?

[zoolu300]

Tell me, and in March 1918. did the Bolsheviks know that Germany would be the loser? Just the fall of 1917. and spring 1918. the period of the greatest military successes of the Central Powers in Europe. So Lenin here just proved his genius of foresight. Let me remind you that under the USSR, all of Ukraine was part of it, and the activities of Gorbachev and Yeltsin changed this state of affairs.

[Monarchist]

You wanted too much for such venerable persons as: M.S., B.N., Heydar Aliyev (in Baku there was zero for d / f, where Aliev told: how he prepared the collapse of the Union and took care of B.N) or did your opponent sepuku

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Aleksander

not to save the country, not the Motherland, but his power!

Alexander, you argue in vain with him. He will reinterpret any of your arguments according to the catechism.

[Aleksander]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Alexander, you argue in vain with him. He will re-interpret any of your arguments according to the catechism

Yes, I know, of course, but I’m not writing for them.

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Alexander, you argue in vain with him.

I won’t tell you, I am mocking your stupidity.
The use of kaploksa, highlighting is your HYSTERIA, recognition of your bankruptcy, turning into a squeal and op.
Read about your whites, General Graves, commander of the 10th American Corps in Siberia:

"Terrible murders were committed in Eastern Siberia, but they were not committed by the Bolsheviks, as they usually thought. I will not be mistaken if I say that for every person killed by the Bolsheviks, there were 100 people killed by anti-Bolshevik elements."

Here is an excerpt from memoirs of the White Guard counterintelligence Nikolai Sigida, created in 1925 in Sofia, “for personal use” (publ. Journal Rodina, 1990, No. 10)

“The reason for the arrest was always caused (as in the text - BF) by the testimony of witnesses, or by a denunciation, or by the seizure of some incriminating document. 1 The whole trial lasted no more than a day, after which time the arrested person, whoever he was, was released, provided with the relevant document, or shot. We had no other punishment, and in the proceedings we were extremely careful. Naturally, they did not spare the Jews, but they themselves were to blame. ”
Travel diary A.A. Euler (publ. Zvezda magazine, 2000, No. 1), who served in the administration of the Denikin Volunteer Army:

“I got acquainted with the district chief of the Aktobe district, Colonel Kozhin, who came to the governor from Aktyubinsk. Former gendarme officer, rude and cynically cruel man. 2 In private conversations, he shows undoubted inclinations towards sadism, telling how subtly brutally he tortured the Bolsheviks at the front, burying them alive in the ground and inserting red-hot ramrods into their anus. The policy of the Dobarmia, not shy, scolds, considering it a "dermocracy" Original, right, the forerunners of the current sovereign patriots!

[Ulan]

However, that Moldova is Russia, this gentleman refused to admit.
It is not clear why the Bolsheviks are reproached that they wanted to maintain their power.
Didn’t Kolchak, Denikin and others want to maintain their power and for the sake of this did not sell Russia to anyone?
The Brest peace, and the Bolsheviks themselves called it obscene.
Well, what had to be done? Fight to the end? With whom, if there was no army, and general desertion and collapse began even after the February Revolution.
And then these gentlemen pretend that after the conclusion of the Brest Peace, history ended and nothing happened further and the lands ceded to Germany, so it remained to this day.
It seems like it was not that a year later the Bolsheviks denounced the treaty and returned everything.
Ah, it was necessary to tolerate only a little and Germany capitulated.
It is as if they did not understand that Germany had capitulated to Western countries and was not at all planning to liberate the territories on which her army stood before the conclusion of the Brest Peace.
Maybe the Entente would force Germany to do this?
Oh, isn't it the Entente, together with the Germans, during the Civil War, Derbanil Russia?
Forgot already?
Or maybe the Entente helped Russia drive the Germans out of Ukraine?
Kindergarten, Western countries would not have done anything to help Russia free the lands captured by Germany, even after its surrender.

[Aleksander]

Quote: Ulan

Maybe the Entente would force Germany to do this?

You don't know that either? Yes it is The Entente ordered in Komp'ien Germany to get out of the Russian land. What can you judge then?

[Monarchist]

Bloodsucker, you quote: ".... either he was released, supplied with the appropriate document, or he was upset" the Reds did the same (it is not known who shot them faster)

[Freeman]

Aleksander Yesterday, 13:58
By the way, they promised a world without annexations and indemnities and, as always, the Ob.

And what, when the "obscene Brest Peace" was concluded, the Bolsheviks received an indemnity or annexed something?

[Aleksander]

Quote: Freeman

And what, at the conclusion of the "obscene Brest Peace", the Bolsheviks received an indemnity or something annexed

No, they PAYED a wild indemnity and GIVEN a third of the territory of European Russia.

[Ulan]

Is the story over? then what happened?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

So average in talents that, according to his plans for mine productions, they defended St. Petersburg during World War II?

Seriously? Really, the Finns managed to give the USSR Porkkala-Udd according to the results of the SFV?
If anyone put mines in those places, it’s the Germans. For the TsMAP PMV was located in the Nargen - Porkkala-Udd region - in those very places where during the Second World War the Germans and Finns equipped a mine-network anti-submarine line.
And the Soviet TsMAP in the Great Patriotic War was located at the turn of Osmussaar-Hanko. Exactly between the former TsMAP (Nargen - Porkkala-Udd) and the former advanced MAP (Dago-Hanko).

[domokl]

I don’t understand what the problem is at all. in our city and the monument stands and the restaurant works with his name. Even the palace in which he lived in excellent condition. Political views are a personal matter. A civil war is always dirt and a lot of lies. Winners can always say anything about the vanquished .. There is only the memory of the people.
By the way, the same thing happened with a member of the Central Committee of the CPSU, the first secretary of the regional committee of our city. People raised money and placed a beautiful bust in front of the house where he lived ...

[Russian jacket]

And also the "genius ruler of Omsk" - Kolchak managed to lose almost the full support of the Siberians and Transbaikalians ... The partisan detachments of Siberians at that time were not led by the Bolsheviks ... So there was a good polar explorer, and the organizer was useless ...

[Orionvit]

He faithfully served that tsarist Russia

Here, it is tsarist Russia. The question is not who loved Russia more, but which Russia? There was a struggle of ideologies, and the defeat of the white movement was natural, since all the so-called "rabble" (workers and peasants) went after the "red". And Kolchak is not a victim, he fought for HIS vision of Russia and lost, because the people were not on the way with him. As a researcher of the Arctic, he may be a fine fellow, but his subsequent activities are controversial.

Above all, respect the opinions of others. And take a different point of view. She has a right to exist.

This is where the author was clearly overwhelmed. The opinion of other people may be excellent, but if it is directly opposite to the opinion of the majority, then it is worthless, and for example, why am I obliged to respect it? I'm tired of this liberal nonsense that everyone has their own truth, about the “gray” tones of history, and so on. So we will agree on the rights of pedagogues and maniacs, murderers, as it happened in tolerant Europe.

[Mahmut]

But Mannerheim is really a traitor. He betrayed his friend only because he wanted power and independence for his country. He didn’t even want to influence the situation in the Russian Empire.

Congenial. The independence of Finland was one of the conditions of the Brest peace. The Brest-Litovsk Peace was signed by Lenin, and Mannerheim was called a "separatist". So Kolchak, who fought against the Bolsheviks throughout the empire, is a hero, and Mannerheim, who fought against the Bolsheviks on the territory of his small homeland, is a traitor and insignificance. Although he fought more effectively. The Brest-Litovsk Peace did not oblige Lenin to transfer Vyborg to the Finns, but Lenin did it as a bonus and was forgiven him. Mannerheim advocated the return of Vyborg to the USSR and the elimination of the cause of a future war. But they didn't count it. Mannerheim did not conclude an alliance with Germany, the Finnish Prime Minister did it. Yes, I don’t care. On June 24, 1941, Soviet aircraft bombed Finnish airfields. Yes, I do not care. From the territory of Finland there was not a single shot at the besieged Leningrad. Yes, I do not care. Mannerheim did not allow German troops to enter the Soviet-Finnish border, which did not allow the capture of Leningrad. Yes, I do not care. The retention of Leningrad made it possible to pin down significant forces of the Germans and prevent them from being transferred to the Moscow direction. In fact, Mannerheim's refusal to resign played a decisive role in retaining not only Leningrad, but also Moscow. Because the first deputies of Mannerheim literally beat their hooves in front of the Germans and rushed into battle. Or maybe someone thinks that the Germans, having united with the Finns, could not have taken Moscow? And, she died so died - do not care.

[Orionvit]

And Manerheim did not receive iron crosses from Hitler? If the Germans did not take Leningrad, then this is the merit of Manerheim? What nonsense. A very interesting interpretation of history. Finland fought on the side of fascist Germany, this is a fact and this is enough. Everything else is verbiage.

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: Mahmut

Congenial. The independence of Finland was one of the conditions of the Brest peace. The Brest-Litovsk Peace was signed by Lenin, and Mannerheim was called a "separatist".

Why are you lying at every turn?
The collapse of the Russian Empire as a result of the February revolution was to entail important consequences for Finland. By 1917, Finland was in fact connected with Russia with just a personal union. (By this time, only the head of state, the monarch, remained common between Finland and Russia, while their foreign policy, starting in 1917, was not only factually, but also formally different, if not the opposite: Russia participated in the war against Germany and Finland remained neutral with respect to Germany.) That is, ties of this kind should have been broken by virtue of the liquidation of the monarchy.
Even Wikipedia is not inclined to tell the truth, and that shows how it really was.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%
D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5%D
0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B2%D
0%B8%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8_%D
0%A4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BB%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0
% B8

Quote: Mahmut

I don’t care. From the territory of Finland there was not a single shot at the besieged Leningrad. I don’t care. Mannerheim did not allow German troops to enter the Soviet-Finnish border, which did not allow the capture of Leningrad. I don’t care. The retention of Leningrad made it possible to forge considerable German forces and prevent them from being transferred to the Moscow direction. In fact, Mannerheim’s refusal to resign played a decisive role in retaining not only Leningrad, but also Moscow.

Thanks ... it turns out not the steadfastness and self-sacrifice of the Soviet troops, not the soldiers and officers of the Red Army, but Mannerheim "savior" of the Fatherland ... what does Russophobia with the poison of anti-Sovietism ... it directly justifies the Nazis, fascists and all kinds of traitors .. ..

[Alexey RA]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

Thanks ... it turns out not the resilience and self-sacrifice of the Soviet troops, not the soldiers and officers of the Red Army, but Mannerheim "savior" of the Fatherland ...

Duc ... the ability to pass off the need as a virtue is invaluable when writing memoirs from the series "and here I appear - all in white".
Write to Mannerheim that "after several days of fierce battles in the area of ​​Sestroretsk and Beloostrov, I became convinced of the futility of attempts to break through the long-term defense of the Bolsheviks with my own forces and was forced to give an order to suspend the attack on Leningrad from the north and transfer efforts to the Svir direction"- who will appreciate that.
But if after the war you write that "I gave the order to stop at the old border, not wanting to storm the city with the Germans"- then this is what a plus of reputation. Look, and they will forget about hugs with Hitler.

[Ulan]

Mannerheim jumped in time, like the Hungarians and Romanians. All in all.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Mahmut

June 24, 1941 Soviet planes bombed Finnish airfields. I don’t care.

On June 15, 1941, all Finnish troops in Northern Finland were subordinate to the German command. I don’t care.
On June 22, German aircraft were based at Finnish airfields. And other German planes refueled after mine productions at Kronstadt. For this, the Finns even had to expand the band in Malmi. I don’t care.
On June 22, German TCAs from Finnish bases went hunting for Soviet communications in the Gulf of Finland. I don’t care.
On June 21, German minzags from Finnish skerries went out to lay mines in Soviet waters. I don’t care.
On June 22, Finnish submarines began mine operations in Soviet terra-water systems. Mines have been discovered. I don’t care.

Quote: Mahmut

From the territory of Finland there was not a single shot at the besieged Leningrad. I don’t care.

No need to give out need for virtue. Well, the Finns could not restore the TM-3-12 in time. But the Finnish TM-1-180 exchanged fire with Kronstadt.

Quote: Mahmut

Mannerheim did not allow German troops to enter the Soviet-Finnish border, which did not allow the capture of Leningrad.

Really?

The front line near Leningrad did not pass along the border. And on the border KAUR. And it was established after several days of fierce battles.
And to the north of Ladoga, the Finns went far beyond their old border - they barely stopped them at Svir.

[Alf]

Quote: Mahmut

June 24, 1941 Soviet planes bombed Finnish airfields. I don’t care.

But nothing that

On June 21–25, German naval and air forces acted against the USSR from Finland

?
How can this be understood?

Quote: Mahmut

From the territory of Finland there was not a single shot at the besieged Leningrad.

But there was nothing for the Finns to do this? As well as bombing Leningrad.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Alf

But there was nothing for the Finns to do this?

Theoretically, there was something. The Finns had TM-1942-1 (trophies from Hanko and the Karelian Isthmus) restored by them in 180. Plus, they had open 12 "/ 52 single-gun mounts from the coastal defense, which could be mounted on stationary positions for shelling the city.
The ambush was that this theory could be put into practice only in the absence of opposition from the enemy. And on the northern front of the blockade, a possible area of ​​Finnish siege artillery positions was covered by the northern forts and NIMAP. Plus, the Finns would have to deal with our counter-battery forces themselves, without the Germans.
The Finns tried to compete with our batteries in 1942 with the forces of their TM-1-180 - to no avail. And they did not try to work more on distant goals.

[Aleksander]

Quote: Orionvit

as all the so-called "rabble" (workers and peasants) followed precisely the "red".

How did you define this? The Bolsheviks MISCALLY LOSED the only secret and general elections in Russia of those years - in the Constituent Assembly ..
And the Russia of the Provisional Government, which prepared them, was, in the words of one bald hoopoe: "THE MOST FREE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD."

And more free elections, a free press, even just your opinion. different from the opinion of admirers of the bald one - there were not 70 years.

Yes, even those who voted for the Bolsheviks, they also deceivedbecause before the election of the Constituent Assembly they lied that they ......FOR the Constituent Assembly, and their so-called. "Sovnarkom" was called the INTERIM GOVERNMENT BEFORE Uchr. Meetings.
Then, ONCE! and -dispersed what they promised.

The fact that the Bolsheviks "won" in the civil war does not mean anything: less than 5% of the population took part in it (and from both sides), in the elections to the US-50% of the population. Those who believe that the Bolsheviks turned out to be stronger and therefore were right can be advised to remember these words, when the bandit in the gateway will gut them, he also turned out to be stronger ...

Alexander Vasilievich Kolchak, Anton Ivanovich Denikin real Heroes of Russiawho defended the right of the people, scolded by usurpers, for free expression of their will.

Denikin: ". The leaders of the (Volunteer) army did not predetermine the future forms of the state system, making them dependent on the will of the All-Russian Constituent Assembly, convened to establish legal order in the country"

Kolchak: "to create conditions for a peaceful and calm life in the country, and then the temporary supreme power of the Supreme Ruler and Supreme Commander-in-Chief could transfer the fate of the state into the hands of the people, leaving him to arrange state administration of his own free will, the will of a free people worthy of taking their rightful place among the great states

Wonderful words-WILL OF THE PEOPLE-the goal of white.

And their cause has triumphed: the people of Russia, despite their shortcomings, can choose the one he wants, and not be surprised at the ONLY to the "android" in the bulletin on the so-called. "elections" in the comm. time.

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: Aleksander

The Bolsheviks MISSED the only secret and general elections in Russia of those years - the Constituent Assembly ..

Who needed this toilet?
The temporary ones have lost, so wash yourself, keep yourself in order and your feverish nonsense should not be given out as a real story.

Quote: Aleksander

The fact that the Bolsheviks "won" in the civil war does not mean anything: less than 5% of the population took part in it (and from both sides), in the elections to the US-50% of the population. Those who believe that the Bolsheviks turned out to be stronger and therefore were right can be advised to remember these words, when the bandit in the gateway will gut them, he also turned out to be stronger ...

Hot nonsense, the same as yesterday was carried mortally frightened by the victory of Trump Svanidze.

Quote: Aleksander

Wonderful words-WILL OF THE PEOPLE-the goal of white.

Even greater nonsense, what kind of people, if the PEOPLE kicked the Whites out of the country? The people turned out to be smarter than you.

Quote: Aleksander

And their cause won: the people of Russia, with all their shortcomings, can elect the one they want, and not be surprised at the ONLY one to the "andidate" in the bulletin on the so-called. "elections" in the comm. time.

Well, yes, yes, yes, yours are already suffering losses. Ulyukaev was arrested, or else there will be.

[Aleksander]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

The temporary ones lost, so wash yourself, keep yourself in order and your feverish nonsense shouldn’t be given out as a real story

Take a look at the FLAG OVER KREMLIN. and humble yourself endangered redies
And do it every morning at 5.00

[avt]

Quote: Aleksander

Take a look at the FLAG OVER KREMLIN. and humble yourself

Rising to the chords of a hymn written by Alexandrov as the anthem of the party and which Stalin accepted as the national anthem Again, read Sigismund Herberstein - Under the red banners the Russians fought back when the Bolsheviks and Mapx were not in the project either.

[Aleksander]

Quote: avt

a hymn written by Alexandrov as the anthem of the party and which Stalin accepted as the national anthem

Yes Yes! I even remember how Stalin sang this anthem:

" Russia is our sacred Power [,
Russia is our beloved country! "

[V.ic]

Quote: Aleksander

I even remember how Stalin sang this hymn:

My dear, so you are over 70! How did Trotsky "drink" the "Internationale" do not remember? Haven't you found it yet?

[Ulan]

He also remembers Ivan the Terrible and was present when he "killed" his son.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: avt

Under the red banners the Russians fought back then

In Russian, the word Redsth often meant beautiful.

[avt]

Quote: Ingvar 72

In Russian, the word Red often meant beautiful.

And I did not know that the Austrians speak Russian, since the days of Sigismund Herberstein. So probably in pure Russian and wrote the German baron, diplomat and traveler.

The Most Exalted Sovereign Ferdinand 2, King of Rome, Hungarian, Bohemia, etc., Infant of Spain, Archduke of Austria, Duke of Burgundy and Wirtemberg, and many provinces, Duke, Margrave, Count, my all-merciful sovereign.

They say they go by a campaign, the Russians carrying beautiful banners.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: avt

They say they go by a campaign, the Russians carrying beautiful banners.

I agree with the conclusions - the logic is either there or not. But - is it worth clinging to the red banners in Russia? If you use logic precisely in this vein, then all who like the rainbow are buggers.
P.S. Forgive the moderators, Amen.

[Ulan]

True, red cloaks were worn only by princes and noble boyars-governors. Probably also commies.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Aleksander

Take a look at the FLAG OVER KREMLIN.

And then slowly turn your gaze left or right to the towers. Or down - to the Mausoleum.

[Aleksander]

Quote: Alexey RA

Quote: Aleksander

Take a look at the FLAG OVER KREMLIN.

down to the Mausoleum.

Translated:


And?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Aleksander

Translated:

And in the remaining 300-odd days?

[Ulan]

Yeah ... disgrace. The Red Army did not fight under the tricolor and it is more than inappropriate there.

[Aleksander]

Quote: Alexey RA

look left or right

Translated:

And?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Aleksander

Translated:

Ai-ai-ai ... you think - since a Petersburger, so for him the Kremlin and the Historical Museum are all the same?
No, do not take our eyes off the Kremlin:

[Aleksander]

Quote: Alexey RA

No, do not take our eyes off the Kremlin:

In no way tore off:


Arsenal tower at the tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

[Freeman]

Aleksander Yesterday, 17:35 p.m. ↑
Arsenal Tower at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier

.
Red stars were established in 1935-1937. on 5 towers of the Moscow Kremlin out of 20:
Borovitskaya, Trinity, Spasskaya, Nikolskaya and Vodovzvodnaya.

[Orionvit]

The fact that the Bolsheviks "won" in the civil war does not mean anything

That just says it all. And by the way, after the constituent assembly, a huge number of different events occurred that proved that besides the Bolsheviks, all the other revolutionaries and patriots, just lovers of chatter are not capable of realizing their plans and beliefs, so to speak.

[Buffet]

Well, given the fact that the CPSU (b) crushed both the anarchists and the Socialist Revolutionaries and all sorts of committees there alone ... of course they could not. And then those people with whom they made the revolution in October were shot ... and of course yes.

[Ulan]

And they did it right. Otherwise, they would have received it as in Ukraine, where each himself was a hetman or chieftain, Old Man Angel or Gritian Vrichesky, until the Reds arrived.

[nov_tech.vrn]

It is sad to see nonsense performed by a stupid person, the country after the pogrom of state institutions made by the then liberals fell apart, it was they who removed Tsar Nicholas from power, introduced elected posts of commanders in the army and, as a result of stupid management, provoked massive desertion. After these shocks, the deputies of the constituent assembly not only could represent the interests of the entire population of Russia, but they were simply incapacitated, they could not do anything but talk.
And to compare the bloodthirsty Bolsheviks and the white and fluffy White Guard generals is now fashionable, I think fashion will pass like leggings, affectionate May and brought your foot down.

[zoolu300]

Civil war is almost the most fair election, the result is difficult to rig.

[Engineer]

If Kolchak could emigrate to Europe, then I’m sure that he would serve the Tsar, the interim government, the constituent assembly and many more, with the same faith and truth that he would serve Hitler Germany and would take part with his colleague Mannerheim with pleasure would be in the siege of Leningrad, fighting for their homeland.

[Diana Ilyina]

Posted by Roman Shvedov
2. “Well, let's now put on monuments to Hitler, Vlasov, Krasnov (underline).”
Argument. To equate real war criminals and collaborators with a man who did not depart from the oath he had given to his country, which he had sworn to defend, and died for her.

I knew that there would be someone from the "whitewaters" of this White Guard spawn. And again twenty-five. Yesterday they wrote a hundred times that he was not faithful to any oath, moreover, he openly went to serve the English crown. Why repeat the nonexistent myth about the "loyalty" of white officers to the "adored monarch" ?! None of these very officers took the side of the monarchy in February 1917. What's wrong? Who of the officers led the suppression of the February mutiny, eh ?! Nobody, because there was no suppression and the officers of the "adored monarch" poured down the toilet along with the monarchy! And now they are strenuously imposing myths about "noble" officers on us, ugh an abomination.
The author, you forgive and do not own absolutely the material you are writing about. Kolchak has not yet undertaken to rehabilitate a single court, HE A WAR CRIMIN, the same as Krasnov, Shkuro, Vlasov and others. And the fact that he did not serve Hitler Germany does not negate the fact that he served the interests of the British Empire. Both that and another is a betrayal in relation to Russia, and therefore there is no and will not be forgiveness to this White Guard shit!

[avt]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Yesterday they wrote a hundred times that he was not faithful to any oath, moreover, he openly went to serve the English crown.

Well ! Diana came and so deliciously on the glitches inspired by the film .... yes to smithereens.

Quote: Diana Ilyina

None of this same officers took the side of the monarchy in February 1917. What's wrong?

Not so that in the wake of the worship of the "holy family", none of the adorers of the "white army" pays attention to the title that Kolchak himself bestowed upon himself - THE SUPREME RULER, well, they do not want to carefully look at the facts of the past years with crispy French rolls together . Naturally, he called himself with the blessing of the Entente mission, headed by General Joubert, and it seems ... the main "engine" of the mission - the brother of Yasha Sverdlov and the type "adopted son of" Peshkov, who is, Maxim ,) Zinovy ​​Peshkov. Affectionately referred to in private letters by M. Gorky "Zinka". This is the very mission that ultimately merged him.

Quote: ARES623

The point, in principle, is not the figure of Kolchak. And the fact that the authorities of St. Petersburg once again publicly perpetuated the memory of the controversial figure by doing it as provocatively as possible, without preparing public opinion, but speaking directly, did not give a damn about the opinion of the townspeople.

I would have understood the logic of the historical legacy of outstanding geographers and the elimination of the “white spots” if they had hung portraits of Kolchak and Mannerheim somewhere in the corridors of the Russian Geographical Society.

Quote: ARES623

From this board Peter is neither cold nor hot

But the trend however .....

[avt]

Quote: avt

I'm Entente missions led by General Joubert

Getting old - I hoped for a memory and made a mistake. General ZHANEN of course

[CONTROL]

Entente missions led by a general Joubert

- is it from Hugo's Les Miserables, or what?
and in the Entente like Jeanen was?

[Ulan]

Joubert commanded the French army in Italy, when Paul the First, fulfilling an allied duty to Austria, sent Suvorov there.
In the battle of Novi, Joubert was killed, after him in the battle the French troops were led by General Moreau, and lost the battle to Suvorov.
It is believed that Joubert was one of the most talented young French generals, almost more talented than Napoleon.

[Alf]

Diana! After you, it’s not interesting to write anything. Nobody will answer so succinctly and clearly with this White Guard-liberal shusher.

[Diana Ilyina]

Alf Today, 18:21 ↑
Diana! After you, it’s not interesting to write anything. Nobody will answer so succinctly and clearly with this White Guard-liberal shusher.

Well, why ?! I liked your comments, and even the Bloodsucker is far from me both in syllable and in knowledge! But in any case, the support of normal sane MEN will never be superfluous! Regards, Diana!

[Alf]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Alf Today, 18:21 ↑
Diana! After you, it’s not interesting to write anything. Nobody will answer so succinctly and clearly with this White Guard-liberal shusher.

Well, why ?! I liked your comments, and even the Bloodsucker is far from me both in syllable and in knowledge! But in any case, the support of normal sane MEN will never be superfluous! Regards, Diana!

Thank you!

[Buffet]

This is your personal opinion. I have already described WHY, he became a "war criminal", I was not heard by you, how can you then speak? Wait, I pointed out that Lenin himself made the revolution with foreign capital, and in general this man is from that family. Brother-revolutionary and himself there, with his desires "Destroy the Russian trash". I pointed out that he was a controversial person, but they again began to point me to something completely different. Why do my words turn over, but the essence of the thought is not understood at all? Have you at least read my link and generally the article carefully?

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: SHVEDsky_stol

Wait, I pointed out that Lenin himself made a revolution on foreign capital, and in general this person is from that still family.

"to point out" you may be and could be ignorant like yourself, but the fact is that your chatter is not confirmed by ANYTHING.

Quote: SHVEDsky_stol

Brother-revolutionary and himself there, with his desires "Destroy the Russian trash".

Another nonsense. Where so much verbal garbage and gossip?

Quote: SHVEDsky_stol

Why are my words turned upside down, and the essence of the thought is not understood at all? Have you even read my link and the article carefully?

Because your link and your writings, frank trash.

[baudolino]

"
2
Engineer Today, 08:24 ↑ New
If Kolchak could emigrate to Europe, then I am sure that he, with the same faith and truth as he served the tsar, the provisional government, the constituent assembly and many others, would serve Nazi Germany and would gladly take part with his colleague Mannerheim would be in the blockade of Leningrad, fighting for their homeland. "- if, based on your logic, accuse you of being" a traitor, a radish and a bad person, "just because" I'm sure ", you probably take offense.

[Vend]

Quote: Engineer

If Kolchak could emigrate to Europe, then I’m sure that he would serve the Tsar, the interim government, the constituent assembly and many more, with the same faith and truth that he would serve Hitler Germany and would take part with his colleague Mannerheim with pleasure would be in the siege of Leningrad, fighting for their homeland.

Well, this is speculation. How would no one be given to know. Fantasy is out of place here.

[Diana Ilyina]

Wend Today, 10: 16 ↑
Well, this is speculation. How would no one be given to know. Fantasy is out of place here.

For those who are on an armored train, I repeat my question. How is service for the benefit and in the interests of the British Crown different from service in the interests of the Third Reich ?!
Is there an answer to this question ?! Or will you dispute the fact that Kolchak switched to English service ?!

[Buffet]

You read Starikov .... English money was actively financed by both sides.

[Ulan]

I would probably say so. Were Kolchak's merits before Russia until the 17th year? Undoubtedly, it was foolish to deny it. In the mine business, he was one of the best specialists.
But the 17th year came and in February he, like all the generals, admirals and officers, betrayed the emperor, who was removed by force from power.
Not touching the personality of Nikolai, to whom I personally am extremely negative, but the fact remains, Nikolai Romanov was the rightful ruler and was forcibly removed from power.
Consequently, both Kolchak and others betrayed the sovereign who was sworn in.
If Nicholas voluntarily renounced, then yes, there was no betrayal.
But it was. But Kolchak was not some sort of ensign, he was the commander of the fleet, that is, he was part of a small circle of the highest command staff of the empire and close to the emperor.
He could at least resign in protest, but he didn’t even make this small thing.
This is the first.
Then the second, essentially appointing himself supreme ruler with the blessing of his Western masters, he began a war against Russia.
Yes, probably he fought for his personal Russia, the one in which there are golden epaulettes, lackeys and a crunch of French rolls.
For his, but not for Russia, millions of ordinary people in Russia.
And what kind of payment for this his personal Russia was he willing to pay?
The one at which horns and legs would remain from Russia. Kolchak collaborated and brought invaders to Russia.
Pay known for the fact that Kolchak became the supreme ruler.
England - Arkhangelsk, Murmansk, Baku and surrounding territories. Germany - Ukraine, France Crimea, Odessa, America and Japan - the Far East and Siberia.
And what was left for the "supreme ruler" where he would show off in gold epaulettes and crunch a French bun? A stub equal to the Moscow kingdom before Ivan the Terrible, because Siberia, which Grozny annexed, would have gone to the Americans and the Japanese.
That would be called Russia then.
That's where he would "supremely rule".
Here's the price for betrayal.
The betrayal that crossed out, all the other merits of Kolchak, like the betrayal of Vlasov crossed out his past merits.
I agree with those who say that the authorities of St. Petersburg acted as provocateurs by hanging this board without asking the opinions of the townspeople.
Such monuments and commemorative signs, ambiguously perceived by individuals, must be coordinated with residents living in these cities.
Today, one mayor of the city likes Caesar and he will erect a monument to him, tomorrow another mayor will come and erect a monument to Brutus, and then a third will come and erect a monument to Judah or Cain.
In my opinion, this business has long had to be put in order.
On your personal site, erect a monument to at least Grandfather Hassan, but so that no one sees, and in public places, this is not permissible.

[Buffet]

And why did not Denikin fight then?

[Diana Ilyina]

SWEDISH_Table Today, 18:27 ↑
And why did not Denikin fight then?

Then when?! For the Third Reich, but he didn’t fight, but Shkuro and Krasnov fought, Krasnov would also have gone under the Kaiser, but not fate! I am ashamed that among my glorious ancestors, the Don Cossacks, who defended the walls of Azov, took the Ishmael, participated in all the wars that Russia waged, among the descendants of Platov, Orlov-Denisov, Baklanov, Khodzhenkov and others there were such bastards as the Reds and comrades shamefully betraying the homeland and dying the glorious name of the sons of the Quiet Don!

[Ulan]

I support, from my father’s side I am also from the Don Cossacks.

[ARES623]

Quote: 210ox

He served faithfully the tsarist Russia, after the abdication he took the oath to the Provisional Government and ended in Siberia.

Between the Provisional Government and Siberia was still the adoption of the citizenship of the Queen of England. Then came the finances of England to equip their army. And as you know, who pays, he gets the result. Well, where is Mr. Admiral’s allegiance to his homeland? The point, in principle, is not the figure of Kolchak. And the fact that the authorities of St. Petersburg once again publicly perpetuated the memory of the controversial figure by doing it as provocatively as possible, without preparing public opinion, but speaking directly, did not give a damn about the opinion of the townspeople. Because the authorities and the inhabitants are completely non-overlapping communities. It would be more logical to imagine that urban management of its activities should be a unifying body working to positively stabilize social relations, in our case it is more visible its destructive effect on the public. Peter is not cold and hot from this board, the economy will not explode, the roads will not get better, and it’s more profitable for the government not to troll the people, but it (the government) has shown that it is imprisoned for other tasks.

[Gray brother]

Quote: 210ox

Kolchak is a victim of that time.

Kolchak is a war criminal. He was not rehabilitated.

Back in the 90s, an attempt was made to rehabilitate Kolchak as an “innocently convicted”. On the initiative “from above”, Kolchak’s case was reviewed by the military court of ZabVO, but no rehabilitation followed.

Having studied the archival file of "Kolchak", the court found that the investigation (January-February 1920) had collected sufficient evidence that from 1918 to 1920. by order of Kolchak, not only military actions were carried out, but also "massive repressions were carried out against the civilian population."
The court's ruling noted that Kolchak himself, during interrogation, testified that, on his initiative, the rights of the military were expanded to use reprisals against the civilian population. As a result, his "field commanders" without legal "red tape" issued orders for hostage-taking, mass executions, and burning of villages, whose residents were only suspected of supporting the Reds. Specials were made. barges for the destruction of those arrested in transit. The Kolchak government assigned monetary awards to the military, depending on the number of "rebels" killed by them.

Kolchak’s state crimes (espionage, cooperation with invaders) were not considered by the court for a number of reasons.

[Aleksander]

Quote: Gray Brother

Kolchak war criminal

Utter nonsense there was no trial of Kolchak, and he, accordingly, did not recognize him as a "war criminal".

And there was a note of a bald hoopoe in the Revolutionary Military Council of the 5 Army:
"Do not spread any news about Kolchak, do not print absolutely nothing, and after our occupation of Irkutsk, send a strictly official telegram explaining that the local authorities before our arrival did so under the influence of ... the danger of White Guard conspiracies in Irkutsk. Lenin."

February 6 1920 of the year - in pursuance of Lenin's telegram - a resolution was adopted by the Irkutsk Military Revolutionary Committee on the execution of Kolchak and Pepelyaev.

Kolchak was shot by decision illegal Irkutsk so-called "rev. committee". He was killed by ordinary bandits and, naturally, he does not need any rehabilitation: when a bandit kills a human being, rehabilitation is not needed ..

The legal power of Russia in the person of Denikin (Kolchak transferred the powers to him) did not recognize him as a criminal, and the commun-e. Of technical sciences, not recognized by anyone (except for the German invaders). "government" was only one of several that were on the territory of Russia during the Gr. war.

Kolchak’s state crimes (espionage, cooperation with invaders) were not considered by the court for a number of reasons.

Such crimes must begin to be considered on a temporary basis:

during the war, when the German invaders trampled our land a coward and a draft evader, hid in Switzerland, then the invaders transferred him to Russia, decomposed the army, carried out a coup d'etat, gifted a third of Russia to their masters against the German invaders - that’s how many crimes at once.

[Buffet]

The legal power of Russia in the person of Denikin (Kolchak transferred the powers to him) did not recognize him as a criminal, and the commun-e. Of technical sciences, not recognized by anyone (except for the German invaders). "government" was only one of several that were on the territory of Russia during the Gr. war.

Well, in one book (I won’t say the name, I don’t remember) Denikin, in correspondence with Kolchak, indicated that he agreed to obey him as the Supreme, but he did not receive a response, and coordination did not go, although he himself pointed to 18- 19 year, for this interference was not at all.

[Ulan]

And it is not clear from what devil Kolchak was the "legal power"? Who appointed him? British? And how could the impostor Kolchak, transfer the "legal power" to Denikin? The same impostor.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Aleksander

Sheer nonsense - there was NO trial over Kolchak,

There was a revolutionary tribunal.
Ghouls put to the wall quite deservedly.

[Aleksander]

Quote: Gray Brother

There was a revolutionary tribunal.

There was NO tribunal. I repeat:

Lenin wrote a note to the Revolutionary Military Council of the 5 Army (published by the FSB in 2013)

"Do not spread any news about Kolchak, do not print anything at all, and after we occupy Irkutsk, send strictly official telegram explaining that local authorities before our arrival have entered so influenced ... by the dangers of White Guard conspiracies in Irkutsk. Lenin".

What the sixes did by the decision of the so-called. "revolutionary committee":

Searches in the city found in many places warehouses of weapons, bombs, machine-gun belts, etc .; mysterious movement around the city of these items of military equipment was established; portraits of Kolchak, etc., are scattered around the city.
All these data make us recognize that there is a secret organization in the city,
Irkutsk Military Revolutionary Committee decided:
1) of the former High Ruler of Admiral Kolchak and
2) of the former Chairman of the Council of Ministers Pepelyaev
shoot

There was reprisal without trial.

Quote: Gray Brother

Ghouls put to the wall quite deservedly.

Ghoul bandits killed the hero of Russia.

[Baloo]

He served faithfully the tsarist Russia, after the abdication he took the oath to the Provisional Government and ended in Siberia .. He defended his homeland from an external enemy and he was no traitor. He saw the choice of revolutionary terror in the Baltic and Sevastopol

There is another point of view regarding merit:
"Special marks. In 1909 (or 1910) Kolchak AV joined the Masonic organization" Military Lodge ", created under the Masonic organization" Polar Star ". Information on the above-mentioned Masonic organizations. In 1887, Russian political emigrants Yablochkov ( Yablochkoff) and M. Kovalevsky opened a Masonic lodge "Cosmos" in Paris, which became popular among Russian oppositionists of the liberal persuasion.Later, around 1906, Kovalevsky managed to found the Masonic lodge "Pole Star" in St. Petersburg. For four years, it included the bulk of the leadership of the Russian liberal political party ("the party of constitutional democrats"): M. Kovalevsky, S. Kotlyarevsky, E. Kedrin, V. Maklakov, V. Nemirovich-Danchenko, S. Urusov, M. Margulies and dr.
In Moscow, the Renaissance box was opened, subordinate to the Polar Star. By the end of 1909, Masonic lodges, subordinate to the Polar Star, were created in a number of other large cities of Russia.
In the same year, in 1909, under the "Polar Star" was created the Masonic "Military Lodge", which, according to our information, included several dozen Russian generals, colonels and promising junior officers. Among them are the following persons: General Alekseev, General Krymov, General Ruzsky, General Vyrubov, Colonels Golovin and Polovtsev. As already noted above, in 1909 (or 1910), our defendant, Kolchak A.V., joined the “War Lodge”. Joining this organization helped him, according to some sources, secure the support of senior officers, also members of the Military Lodge, and contributed to the advancement of A. Kolchak. up the corporate ladder. At the same time, it should be assumed that the disclosure of the fact of membership in the Masonic “Military Lodge” is not desirable for our defendant, as it casts a shadow on his patriotic reputation.
Special marks. Character Kolchak A.V. marked, according to our observations, increased ambition, some posturing and a certain nervousness. Despite our defendant’s participation in dangerous expeditions and military operations, he apparently can’t be considered a strong-willed person who is not influenced ... We especially note his addiction to cocaine, as well as his penchant for romantic adventures ... ”
Resolution: To recommend to Colonel Samuel Horus upon arrival in Russia to pay special attention to the captain of the first rank Kolchak. To note the importance of attracting him to our side (Russian minefields in the Baltic Sea, secret plans, etc.) ...
Historical reference. On April 10, 1916, Kolchak was assigned the rank of rear admiral, and soon after that he received the rank of vice admiral. June 26, 1916 Kolchak was appointed commander of the Black Sea Fleet.
And in 1918, the Entente fleets calmly entered Russian sector of the Baltic Sea, which was mined, and in the confusion of the two revolutions of 1917 no one removed the minefields. Historian A. Martirosyan asserts in this regard: “Kolchak’s entrance ticket to the British intelligence service was the delivery of all information on the location of minefields and obstacles in the Russian sector of the Baltic Sea! After all, it was he who carried out this mining, and he had all the maps of minefields and obstacles in his hands! ""
Source.
Comment by Kolchak specialist nachpo colleague
Hereditary (in the third generation) British spy. What Churchill spoke and wrote about personally, more than once.
His real surname Kolchakyan was never Russian and did not consider himself as such.
Moreover, he pathologically hated everything Russian about which he wrote to his mistress Timireva more than once, the granddaughter of the former Minister of Finance of the Russian Empire. Orthodoxy "professed" only on occasion when it was necessary to show that he was supposedly his own. The Kolchakians received nobility only due to the fact that their grandfather was an overseer of settlers on the newly settled lands of the Kherson province and fell under the influence of the tsar's decree on privileges. The story with the golden saber is a myth. No award documents have yet been found.
A.V. Kolchak is personally guilty in the death of the first Russian polar expedition of Baron Tolya, involved in the unjustified surrender of Port Arthur, personally guilty of the death of Admiral Makarov and the explosion of the battleship Petropavlovsk, personally guilty of destroying the battleship "Empress Maria", personally guilty of abandoning the Black Sea fleet, personally guilty of failure to provide assistance (release from captivity of the imperial family), personally guilty of stealing the gold reserves of the empire, personally guilty of organizing foreign intervention, personally guilty of mass terror (genocide of Russians) during the civil war ... etc. etc.
Source: ss69100.livejournal.com

[Buffet]

however, you’re picky ... It’s good that at least Kutuzova (well, he let Moscow burn down and condemned thousands of people to death), no one is blaming .... it feels like they just give free rein to someone, they’ll write such a thing, write it like that. Mom do not cry. Okhidzhakova, in forgiveness, will bruise her forehead.

[Baloo]

And where does Kutuzov? There is a completely different war, different conditions. Was the 1991 coup not prepared and carried out by agents of influence of the FSA Yakovlev and Gorbachev and others? The GKChP only tried to correct the situation by believing in Gorbachev, although the people spoke in favor of the USSR, and at the October plenum of the CPSU Gorbachev would be removed.

[Ulan]

Did Kutuzov call himself the "Supreme Ruler of Russia"? That with whom you can compare Kutuzov is with Lenin. Lenin went to the temporary Peace of Brest-Litovsk in order to preserve Russia, and Kutuzov went to the temporary surrender of Moscow in order to preserve the army, and therefore Russia.
And if Lenin is a traitor, then Kutuzov, by the same logic, is a traitor.

[iouris]

Quote: 210ox

Kolchak is a victim of that time.

This time is the sacrifice of Kolchaks. The Russian Empire could not lose the war by definition, and, therefore, had a chance to successfully carry out the overdue reforms in a year or two, remaining the only superpower in Europe. Russia emerged from a victorious war not as a result of the October Revolution, but as a result of February, supported by the generals. And what are these generals and admirals without an autocratic king in a country like Russia?
The generals supported the February coup by entering into an agreement with the "allies" who, as a result, supported the Bolsheviks.
To install memorial plaques to such "heroes" is to justify future betrayals.

[Ulan]

Defended his homeland, collaborating with the enemies of the homeland and bringing their troops to their homeland?
Good defender. Or are all the tools good? So why is he better than Vlasov?
Does everyone know what the victory of such a defender threatened Russia with? How was he going to pay off the "allies"?
Read, he was going to pay with Russia.
Thank God that he protected Russia from such a "defender".
God seemed to be on the side of the Reds at that time.
And rightly so because whites violated the oath of the anointing of God, for which they were punished.

[zenion]

He also swore allegiance to the whole west and at the same time to Japan.

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: zenion

He also swore allegiance to the whole west and at the same time to Japan.

Ataman Semenov yes. Hanged like a scumbag dog.

[Baloo]

He faithfully served that tsarist Russia, after the abdication he took the oath to the Provisional Government and ended in Siberia .. He defended his homeland from an external enemy and he was no traitor.
A.Kolchak in letters A. Timireva: "December 30, 1917. I am recruited into the service of His Majesty the King of England "" Singapore, 16 March. (1918). Under him, on the roadstead of the Sevastopol Bay, the powerful battleship "Empress Maria" was blown up for an unknown reason and sunk. On the eve of the explosion, dismissals from the ship to the shore were prohibited .. Under him, the Black Sea Fleet also lost several smaller ships with crews - even before they came into contact with enemy ships. It's no secret that Kolchak was recruited by British intelligence when he was still a captain of the 1st rank and commander of a mine division in the Baltic Fleet. It happened at the turn of 1915-1916. This was already a betrayal of the Tsar and the Fatherland. Entente ships in 1918 calmly entered the Russian sector of the Baltic Sea without any interference. June 28, 1916 Kolchak was appointed commander of the Black Sea Fleet. This happened with direct patronage of a British intelligence resident in Russia, Colonel Samuel Hor and the British ambassador to the Russian Empire, Buchanan. He simply abandoned the fleet and in August 1917 secretly fled to England. Kolchak received the title of admiral from the hands of the Provisional Government, to whom he also swore allegiance, and also betrayed! Having fled to England, he already in August 1917, together with the chief of the naval general staff of Great Britain, General Hall, discussed the need to establish a dictatorship in Russia. Simply put, the question of the overthrow of the Provisional Government, of the coup. At the request of the American ambassador to England, Kolchak was sent to the United States, where he was recruited by diplomatic intelligence of the US State Department. The recruitment was carried out by former Secretary of State Elijah Ruth. As a result, becoming a double Anglo-American agent, Kolchak after the October coup of 1917 turned to the English envoy to Japan K. Green, requesting the government of His Majesty the King of England, George V, to officially accept him for service. On December 30, 1917, the British government officially granted Kolchak’s request. From this moment, Kolchak has officially switched to the side of the enemy. Why the enemy? Yes, because, firstly, on November 15 (28), 1917, the Supreme Council of the Entente made an official decision on intervention in Russia. Secondly, already on December 10 (23), 1917, the leaders of the Entente's European core - England and France - signed the convention on the division of Russia into spheres of influence as follows: the North of Russia and the Baltic states fell into the zone of English influence, France got Ukraine and the South of Russia. The British general Knox, who oversaw Kolchak in Siberia, openly admitted that the British were directly responsible for creating the Kolchak government. It's time to end the collective moaning of the supposedly innocently murdered admiral. In the documents of British intelligence, the US Department of State, in the personal correspondence of Colonel House A.V. Kolchak is directly called their double agent. On May 26, 1919, the Entente Supreme Council sent the admiral (his actions on behalf of the allied command were led by the already mentioned British General Knox and military intelligence intelligence J. Halford Mackinder, subsequently the most famous British geopolitician) note in which, reporting on the severance of relations with the Soviet government, expressed his readiness to recognize him as the supreme ruler of Russia. And this is what is characteristic. They recognized him, but only de facto. And with all this, they demanded that he take purely legal actions - they put forward a harsh ultimatum to him, according to which Kolchak had to agree in writing to: 1. There was no point in separating Poland and Finland from Russia, especially with regard to Finland, except for the fierce desire of London to arrange everything so that these countries received independence allegedly from the hands of the Entente. The fact is that the independence of Finland was granted by the Soviet government on December 31, 1917, which, incidentally, Finland still celebrates. 2. Submitting the issue of secession of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania (as well as the Caucasus and the Trans-Caspian region) from Russia to the arbitration of the League of Nations in the event that the necessary agreements are not reached between Kolchak and the "governments" of these territories. Along the way, Kolchak was presented with an ultimatum so that he recognized the Versailles Conference's right to decide the fate of Bessarabia. Kolchak had to ensure that he would not restore "special privileges in favor of any class or organization." Simply put, the Entente was not satisfied with the restoration of not only the tsarist regime, but even the regime of the Provisional Government, i.e. united and indivisible Russia as a state and country. On June 12, 1919, Kolchak gave the Entente a written answer, which she considered satisfactory.
An attempt to perpetuate traitors and executioners is the same ideological sabotage as in Ukraine the perpetuation of Bandera and Shukhevych.

[siberalt]

Tolerant author. So I say, let there be a memorial in Peter Kolchak, and gallows in Siberia. All garlic.

[insular]

Quote: siberalt

and in Siberia - the gallows. All garlic.

You know, but somehow funny, are you going to execute a board or dust?

Well, if there are such fighters with enemies, go tell Gorbachev which traitor he is and which country he destroyed, which wars in the former USSR began because of him.
Or can you only put gallows monuments? Here it is nearby, and it is a bench press, right?

Traitor to Ulyanov’s 10 meter posts across the country and his vis-a-vis Kolchak, a board on the house - YOU ARE STAFF ?! and foam from the mouth ...

[V.ic]

Quote: insular

To the traitor Ulyanov, 10 meter posts throughout the country

Firstly, not throughout the country, but in large settlements. But there are no monuments to Stalin.
Let's restore the monuments to Stalin to begin with, and then you can and Kolchak board with the addition that he was, among other things, what is attributed to him, also an agent of Britain and the United States.

[insular]

Quote: V.ic

Firstly, not throughout the country, but in large settlements

10 meters across the country in each large settlement.
In smaller towns - and smaller leaders. Also throughout the country.
In the capital lies a mummy ... In the heart of the country ... A human corpse lies in a sarcophagus ...

Quote: V.ic

But there are no monuments to Stalin.

But I think this is a flaw, and I hope the nation will come to its senses and restore historical non-justice.

Quote: V.ic

Let's restore the monuments to Stalin for a start

And let's pile one with the other and do not interfere with one doing the other.

Quote: V.ic

with the addition that he was, among other things, what is attributed to him, also an agent of Britain and the United States.

Only if the same addition will be under each monument to the traitor Ulyanov that he initiated a brutal war on money from outside.

[V.ic]

Quote: insular

In the capital lies a mummy .... Lies a human corpse in a sarcophagus.

A mummy is not a corpse (this is for the "especially gifted").

Quote: insular

restores historical not justice.

How harsh you are! Is the industrialization of the USSR, the defeat of fascism, an injustice?

Quote: insular

traitor Ulyanov that he initiated a brutal war on money from outside.

"My dear", whose credits "was fulfilled by RI, which was drawn into a war it did not need?

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Oh, the tale about loans has surfaced ... But it's okay that the French national debt was larger than the Russian one. And in the war we were "dragged" by Germany, which declared war on Russia. Or should we have ignored this fact?

[V.ic]

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

Oh, the tale of loans surfaced ..

If you declare French loans a fairy tale, then why did Mr. Chernomyrdin pay the residents of the "5th Republic" and what money to France was rejected by the Bolshevik government?

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

But nothing that the public debt of France was more than Russian.

Continue to sympathize further with France, which subsequently raised its paws to the "Third Reich"! After all, Stalin, unlike Nika 2, did not promise anything to the French and British in 1939, when they sent secondary clerks to negotiate a new "Entente". The steam rink from the East was gone now!

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

And in the war we were "dragged" by Germany, which declared war on Russia.

Why, then, did Nicky 2 "skip" the clauses of the Bjork Treaty? Only in the presence of very weighty obligations to the "Fifth Republic"! For some reason there was a visit to Russia by Poincaré in July 1914. "Google" who this notorious Poincaré was, compare the date of the visit and the date of the shelling of Belgrade.

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

Or should we ignore this fact?

Ignore the existing financial (debt) dependence of Russia on France? Are you out of your mind or borrowed from someone?

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Credits were there, but I called fairy tales about the fact that supposedly the loans pulled RI into the war. The French spent up to 30% of the budget on servicing the public debt. Their creditor was predominantly England.
Well, yes, Stalin refused in 1939 out of "proletarian pride". To remind you how it backfired for us on June 22, 1941.
Yes, Poincare came to Russia in 1912 and in 1914. He was afraid to be alone against the rapidly militarizing Germany.
Nicholas II rejected the agreement with Germany for one reason - the Germans imposed on us the enslaving agreement that turned Russia into a food colony. Or will you deny the fact that RI has national interests?
Can you confirm the "fact" of RI's debt dependence in figures?

[V.ic]

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

Their creditor was predominantly England.

Your "discovery" for the "Nobel Prize" clearly "does not pull"!

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

Stalin out of "proletarian pride" refused in 1939

Not out of "proletarian pride," but out of political insight. As for “proletarian pride,” you’re better off to the then still living Leiba Davidovich (well, just a pure proletarian!).

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

To remind you of how this came back to us on June 22, 1941.

That's just "this" nothing backfired. The degree of the bourgeois' "desire" to fight the Nazis was demonstrated by the "strange war" in Europe in 1939-1940. Having allied treaties with Poland, the "Entente" beautifully "raped" her in 1939, for which she paid in 1940. From June 22, 1941. to June 6, 1944 three-quarters of the German troops and satellites of the Third Reich were "ground up" on the eastern front while Churchill "sewed on the last button" on the Tommy pants.

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

Poincare ... was afraid to be alone against the rapidly militarizing Germany.

Alone, yes against the whole "Second Reich", it is really very scary!

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

Or will you deny the fact that RI has national interests?

The national interests in Russia were "in charge" of the so-called. "the owner of the Russian land". Can you guess who it was from three times?

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

Can you confirm the "fact" of RI's debt dependence in figures?

This is really a "business approach", "you dig up something for me there ..." Doesn't your hand go up? Or is Russian history a taboo for you, and textbooks "on Soros" are the ultimate truth?
Well, lazy, take:
"In 1914, Russia's external debt (the largest in the world) amounted to 6,5 billion rubles. At the same time, 4,3 billion rubles was the state debt (3 billion rubles - to France)" http: // Russian movement. рф / index.php / history / 52-ar
ticles/14544-2013-03-10-15-04-18
"The DISTRIBUTION of foreign investment in Russia by country of origin in 1914 was as follows: France - 32 percent, England - 22 percent, Germany - 19,7 percent, Belgium - 14,3 percent, USA - 5,2 percent." http: //russkoedvizhenie.rf/index.php/history/52-ar
ticles/14544-2013-03-10-15-04-18
Adding together ("all the same") "French" and "English" percentages, we get 54%, while the "German" percentage is only 19,7%. How many times did the Franco / British financial influence (54%) exceed the German (19,7%, I can round up to 20%) financial influence? For the victims of the EG, I suggest simply dividing 5,4 by 2 (the answer is 2,7 times). And who, in this situation, did your especially adored Niki-2 prefer? Guess three times why he did it?
Here's another "snack" for you, as a hater of the Bolsheviks and a lover of crap:
Payment of "Russian credit" personally to citizens of France, not the "Fifth Republic".
"The problem of Russian debts to France was finally settled at the end of November 1996, when Viktor Chernomyrdin signed in Paris a secret" Memorandum of Understanding between the governments of the Russian Federation and France on the final settlement of mutual claims that arose before May 9, 1945. "This document provides for payment by Moscow Paris within 4 years 400 million dollars. As they recognize on the banks of the Seine, Moscow is punctually transferring dollars to Paris in accordance with the planned schedule. " http://maxpark.com/community/8/content/763843
Do you need a number? Here, small "post-revolutionary figures"
"a loan in France in April 1906, the conclusion of which was vigorously promoted by S.Yu. Witte, for 2,25 billion francs (844 million rubles), saved the then financial situation of Russia.
By the beginning of World War I, Russia's public debt amounted to over 9 billion rubles, of which about half was external debt. An additional 3 billion rubles must be added to this amount of debt. guaranteed by the government of railway loans, and it turns out that with a budget of 3,5 billion rubles. Russia's public debt amounted to 12 billion rubles, that is, the debt exceeded the budget by more than 3,5 times.
http://studopedia.ru/7_55746_glava-V-finansi-ross
ii-v-XX-veke.html
By the way, will you refute or as your "one-thinker" insular start on the run?

[Ulan]

Explicitly started on the run.

[Ulan]

Wow "fairy tale". To whom was France's debt? Russia? Something you confuse salty with square. You about Thomas, and you about Eremu.
And write yourself somewhere so that over and over again this stupidity - Ulyanov, did not unleash the Civil War, he did not need it after the Bolsheviks took power.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

England was France's creditor. If this is news to you, then I'm not surprised: the History of VKPb doesn't write about it.
Ulyanov GV did not unleash? And the violent seizure of power, contrary to all sorts of laws, is that for you an ordinary order of things?

[Ulan]

Interestingly, before that, hadn't someone seized power by force? In February the 17th? Or did the king sit, miss, and take nothing and write a renunciation? And who arrested the king and his family?
So it turns out that it was not Ulyanov who unleashed a civil war, but those who forcibly removed the legal emperor from power and arrested him.
Al wrong? So.
And then there was the Kornilov rebellion and his campaign against Petrograd. Not a civil war? And then there was the summer armed suppression of the Provisional Government, the speech in Petrograd for the transfer of power to the Soviets. Peaceful performance.
So who started the Civil War, if you use your own definitions?
Obviously not Ulyanov-Lenin.
And about loans. See how wonderful everything has turned out for the Anglo-Saxons. They tightly tied France to themselves with loans, and France, with the same England, tightly tied Russia to themselves.
The spider then sat in London, and the flies in Paris and St. Petersburg.
As one of the British prime ministers said, why bark (fight) yourself, if for this there are European dogs. True, this time the British had to fight themselves, the "dogs" could not cope with their duties.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Kind, to the Provisional Government, unlike the Bolsheviks, the whole society did not resist. Kornilov speech - private initiative.

[Stas157]

Quote: Ulan

And write yourself somewhere so that over and over again this stupidity - Ulyanov, did not unleash the Civil War, he did not need it after the Bolsheviks took power.

This is just stupid! Since, according to your logic, the junta on the Ruin did not unleash a civil war in the Donbass, it’s

[Stas157]

Quote: Ulan

And write yourself somewhere so that over and over again this stupidity - Ulyanov, did not unleash the Civil War, he did not need it after the Bolsheviks took power.

This is just stupid! Since, according to your logic, the junta on the Ruin did not unleash a civil war in the Donbass, it’s

[Stas157]

Quote: Ulan

And write yourself somewhere so that over and over again this stupidity - Ulyanov, did not unleash the Civil War, he did not need it after the Bolsheviks took power.

This is just stupid! Since, according to your logic, the junta on the Ruin did not unleash a civil war in the Donbass, it’s

[ARES623]

Quote: insular

Only if the same addition will be under each monument to the traitor Ulyanov that he initiated a brutal war on money from outside.

A fratricidal war cannot be unleashed from scratch, because someone wanted it. A certain conflict situation should develop. And it took shape, and not because of the RSDLP. And because of the terrible degree of stratification of society and the presence of irreconcilable contradictions in it. This is when the poor people hate the rich gentlemen, and the gentlemen despise those who create material wealth, and for a pittance they appropriate the results of their labor. In such a situation, any awkward movement by the authorities, connivance at internal aggressive groups creates an explosive revolutionary situation. And so it happened. And for a just cause the Whites cut off the Reds, and for the same (from a different point of view) just cause the Reds chopped off the Whites. The tragedy is that the wonderful family man Romanov, instead of keeping some in check and not letting others bullshit, abandoned the "oars" and removed himself from the leadership of the country, and the situation went downhill uncontrollable by anyone. And the bigger tragedy is that today this situation is repeating itself. In this case, the St. Petersburg leadership, instead of a positive role, becomes a detonator. Of course, today it will not "explode" under this board, but an extra log has thrown mutual enmity into the "fire". I.d.io.t.y. (I mean those who hung this board)

[Baloo]

Like it or not, the Bolsheviks were the only force that could take responsibility for rebuilding the disintegrating state. Yes, Parvus was the personal agent of Baron Colonel of German intelligence Nicholas, but it was Nicholas who convinced the German prime minister to give money for the transnational company Parvus, from which Gonetsky (the first head of the bank of the USSR later) brought the Bolsheviks. Lenin has an article or a letter: "Should we take money from Parvus." However, after the October Revolution, Lenin replied to an attempt to come to Russia: the revolution is being done with clean hands. By the way, Parvus died the same year as Lenin.
Whether someone likes it or not, the Bolsheviks relied on the people, and the whites to a greater extent on the Entente. So who saved Russia and to whom should we erect monuments and plaques. On TV they showed some landowner in the south.
So he built a memorial dedicated to General Krasnov and home-grown Nazi Nazis hang around him.
Our discussion is yet another proof of the absence of a true objective recent history of Russia. We are made an idol from EBN, although this alcoholic degenerate contributed to the destruction of Russia comparable to the Second World War.

[Bloodsucker]

insular

Quote: V.ic

Let's restore the monuments to Stalin to begin with, and then you can and Kolchak board with the addition that he was, among other things, what is attributed to him, also an agent of Britain and the United States.

Your appeal to this insular, useless, untrained bot with one program, no reaction, no arguments.

[V.ic]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

nor any reaction to any arguments.

Who would have doubted, but alas ... you have to "watch over politeness" ... By the way, after all, he did not answer my repeated question, probably his "processor is frozen" or the only gyrus tied into a knot.

[Buffet]

That is, then, as the food surplus was being done, how the villages were starving, how the Tambov men got up (and the Chinese suppressed them, led by Tukhachevsky), how the dispossession was going on, this is certainly so ... trifles.

[Baloo]

Was another solution possible? The question was whether to preserve the state at the cost of any deprivation and sacrifice or decay. The Germans claimed what territory? the British? are the Americans? French people? Italians? Japanese? even romanians with poles?

[Ulan]

And that under the tsars, Russian men did not rebel? You know a bad story. The entire history of the rule of the Romanovs, including the last of them, peasant riots happened in the hundreds.
Google - popular uprisings in Russia. It will be interesting.

[Finches]

Kolchak has no fewer advocates than prosecutors ... I, a little abstracted from my personal understanding of History, through the prism of the knowledge gained, books read and life experience, will express myself as follows - the time of such memorial plaques has not yet come - they do not perpetuate memory, but are harmful to the split - I see in this the intrigues of the liberal public with all their hearts hating a strong Russia! Red, white ... - it doesn't matter, the main thing is Russia! That is, the riveting of such monuments is not a tribute to their respect for these people, but more than I am sure that this "White movement" does not care about the Admiral and his merits, but there is a political order aimed at "rocking the boat" to bring the people needed by the West to power! If the initiators of such antics really appreciated the history of their country, knew it, were patriots of Russia, they would never have allowed this to be done right now - because it is harmful to the state! Everything has its time ... Moreover, this applies to both sides of the conflict, since there are ultra-communists who also harm the country with their ambiguous antics! You can debate, argue, disagree with each other, but if you bring the degree of boil, then only here, in the virtual space, but transferring the confrontation to the street, which will lead to only one thing - the collapse of the country! This is exactly what our Western "partners" are striving for!

[Vend]

To begin, let us respect the opinions of other people and learn to accept someone else's point of view, rather than waving a red flag and shouting: “Whoever is not with us is against us.”

I support. After the erection of the monument to Dzerzhinsky, I don’t remember that the opponents from the white camp dirty the historical monument.
Author +++

[Diana Ilyina]

Wend Today, 10: 13 ↑
After the erection of the monument to Dzerzhinsky, I don’t remember that the opponents from the white camp dirty the historical monument.

But what, did the monument to Felix Edmundovich be returned to its rightful place in the Lubyanka ?! I overslept something ?!

Author +++

Auto RU - - -

And in general, we will talk about perpetuating the memory of the white movement only after the restoration of the honest name of Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria, Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky and other Soviet leaders. We will return their monuments to their place, and then look at the real, not imaginary merits of the tsarist generals, their role in history and the real contribution to the collapse of Russia. Everyone must be judged by his deeds! But the real affairs of Kolchak are such that the aspen stake is crying over it, and not a plaque!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Wend

After the erection of the monument to Dzerzhinsky, I don’t remember that the opponents from the white camp dirty the historical monument.

The people in the white camp are different, completely different.

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

The people in the white camp are different, completely different.

Of course, another, totally betraying the country. Why do we need such rabble in the country?
NTS agents in Leningrad illuminated targets with lights — now they howl about the rehabilitation of Kolchak — why are you in the country?

[Ulan]

Of course another with three noses and four ears, and also hooves and horns.

[Ulan]

They did not get dirty. They simply demolished it when the power weakened and there was no one to fear. Underpants.

[vovanpain]

Above all, respect the opinions of others. And take a different point of view. She has a right to exist.

And you, dear Roman Shvedov, respect someone else’s opinion yourself? Thank you for the beautifully written article, but why then is your opinion ONLY correct? I won’t go deep into the jungle, I will only say one thing, gentlemen, the bakers and the red, green and gray-brown raspberries have not yet been fought among themselves? To the delight of the rest of the world, the fratricidal war continues for another 100 years, the son didn’t get tired of his father, brother’s brother yet, did they pour a little Russian blood on both sides? And it has been flowing and pouring over the course of a century.

And for me personally, there is no greater crime than the intentional desire to betray the country in such a difficult period

Nobody denies the merits of Kolchak in the development of the Arctic and in the military field in the imperial service, on the contrary, a low bow and great gratitude, but no one denies the monstrous massacres in Siberia done by Kolchak people and it’s not for me to throw these acts on the scales of history, and please tell me Roman Shvedov, why I should not be proud of my grandfather, who participated in the defense of Moscow and during the assault of Warsaw, was seriously wounded and commanded, but was a communist. Why should I not be proud of my other grandfather, who began to fight in Finnish, and near Smolensk in 1941 he was captured as a wounded soldier, having gone through all the horror of prisoner-of-war camps, but who carried out and returned with a membership card and such millions.

And take a different point of view. She has a right to exist.

Your proposal is Roman concerns ALL of us, Regards colleagues. In that article I posted about the atrocities of Kolchakites, and now see the monument to A.V. Kolchak in Irkutsk.

[Aleksander]

Monument Alexander Vasilievich Kolchak on the island of Kolchak in the Kara Sea, named after the discoverer of the island A.V. Kolchak in 1901

Interestingly, the island bore the name of a hero and owls. authorities whole ..... 22 years!

[Finches]

You see! You again present the facts in the interpretation you need, misleading the comrades - The island was discovered in 1901 by the Russian polar expedition of the Imperial Academy of Sciences under the leadership of Baron E.V. Toll. By decision of Toll the northern tip of the island was named "Cape Kolchak" in honor of the hydrographer of the expedition, Lieutenant Kolchak, and not the discoverer of the island, as you write! A little later, the island was called that way!

[Aleksander]

Quote: Finches

You see! You again present the facts in the interpretation you need, misleading comrades - the Island was discovered in 1901 by the Russian polar expedition of the Imperial Academy of Sciences under the leadership of Baron E. V. Toll. By Toll's decision, the northern tip of the island was named "Cape Kolchak" in honor of the hydrograph of the expedition, Lieutenant Kolchak, and not the discoverer of the island, as you write!

HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT PARTICIPANT expedition that first discovered the island is a pioneer, huh?
Museum of the Arctic. Part of the pillar delivered in 1901 by E.V. Toll expedition on Kotelny Island and a portrait of Admiral Kolchak.

[Finches]

The pioneer in this case is an expedition led by Toll!

[Aleksander]

Quote: Finches

The pioneer in this case is an expedition led by Toll

The discoverers were ALL members of the expedition and Kolchak, including also the discoverer.
But they named it exactly after Kolchak, as a hydrograph. There were some reasons, maybe the fact that he was the first discoverer ..

[Finches]

Kolchak had good patrons and therefore he became Admiral, but the name of the island was fixed for him ....

[Ulan]

Oddly enough, but conventionally "reds" never start discord and quarrel first. They only answer. Provocateurs are always "whites" who decided that they won and now have the right to everything. In that sense, both meanness and provocation.

[Basil50]

Why does Kolchak's frank betrayal not cause rejection among liberal democrats? It seems to me that they have a common master, and they do not see anything reprehensible in such a faithful service.

[Ulan]

Because betrayal is their religion and essence.

[populist]

To begin, let us respect the opinions of other people and learn to accept someone else's point of view, rather than waving a red flag and shouting: “Whoever is not with us is against us.”

But it will not work.
Why should I respect stupid and criminal opinion?
Respect must be earned, the truth and justice of this very opinion must be proved. We do not observe such ability among the White Guards-Kolchakites. Yes, it cannot be, because they constantly show neglect of facts, a lack of historical knowledge, and blind bias.

[insular]

Quote: populist

they constantly show neglect of facts, a lack of historical knowledge, and blind bias.

"Historical knowledge" - how beautiful it sounds ... And most importantly, how much in common with the ancient ukras. There, after all, there is also historical knowledge, only their own - alternative and the longer they are hammered into immature brains, the deeper this infection eats.
Here it’s brain fat, and we curse the brothers, as if others themselves.

[populist]

Here it’s brain fat, and we curse the brothers, as if others themselves.

Golden words and valuable self-recognition.
Who is arguing? Of course, the UKRs are yours — the White Guards-Kolchak’s are siblings! And you are like them. And they do the same thing as you. You hang boards to the next chikatilo-kolchak and they (the great UKRs) erect monuments to a variety of chikatil - Shukhevychs, Bandera and other loops.
Relatives

[Ulan]

Right One gang. Kolchak was an enemy of Soviet Russia and Hitler's servants Bandera and Shukhevych, too.

[Fox]

and let everyone who killed my people erect monuments where they killed: white whales, white Finns, white-poles, American
Tsam, the British, Basayev, Chikatilo ... it will be so colorful!

[insular]

Did the Reds kill any other people? Your arguments are excellent.

[V.ic]

Quote: insular

Did the Reds kill any other people?

And whites killed what people? Turn on your brain and try to think about why:
- Kolchak carried out a military coup in the Ufa directory; Who appointed him to the government as minister of war and naval; who "spun" them (who were Janin and Knox?).
- the Siberian peasantry, initially positive / neutral towards the Ufa directory, which overthrew the Bolsheviks, began to fight the "Kolchakia".
- Nikolai Nikolaevich Yudenich did not agree to an alliance with Mannerheim in exchange for the "one and indivisible", and Kolchak made a deal with representatives of the "Entente".

[insular]

Have you tried to include yours?
Even the Red Terror and the Age of Redness could not hide from the history of the vile deals of Ulyanov with Europe.
The collapse of the country and the beginning of the war - it was the Bolsheviks who did it.

[Smog]

The collapse of the country

Oh, and the collapse of the Russian Empire did not begin in February 17th?

[insular]

The Bolsheviks plan for a civil war was much until the 17th year.

[Smog]

Yah......

[Ulan]

Well yes. But isn't that so? The slogan - we will turn the war into an imperialist war into a civil war ... why was the Bolsheviks needed? For fun? Maybe you still need to strain a little gyrus and remember that for each specific moment the Bolsheviks had different slogans and different tasks?
This slogan for the Bolsheviks was relevant only in order to seize power and nothing more.
After the Bolsheviks took power in October 17th, it lost its relevance and was never used by the Bolsheviks.
The civil war was unleashed by those who lost power in October 17th and precisely in order to regain it.

[dmprt]

Plan to the studio! People want a plan!

[V.ic]

Quote: insular

The collapse of the country and the beginning of the war - it was the Bolsheviks who did it.

First, google about the February / March revolution and who made it when Stalin was in Siberia, Lenin was in Switzerland, and Trotsky was in New York. State the name of at least one Bolshevik who took part in the abdication of Nicholas II as part of the Shulgin delegation. For especially um ... "gifted differently", RI was already at war since August 2. And Austria-Hungary began it with artillery shelling of Belgrade.
Once again I urge you to answer my three questions addressed to you, and not wag your tongue. I repeat:

Quote: V.ic

why:
- Kolchak carried out a military coup in the Ufa directory; Who appointed him to the government as minister of war and naval; who "spun" them (who were Janin and Knox?).
- the Siberian peasantry, initially positive / neutral towards the Ufa directory, which overthrew the Bolsheviks, began to fight the "Kolchakia".
- Nikolai Nikolaevich Yudenich did not agree to an alliance with Mannerheim in exchange for the "one and indivisible", and Kolchak made a deal with representatives of the "Entente".

I wait, I hope, I believe ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: V.ic

What is the name of at least one Bolshevik who participated in the abdication of Nicholas 2 as part of the Shulgin delegation.

So right away, with trump cards.
You can also ask to name the authors of the notorious Order No. 1, which actually legalized the collapse of the army. As well as a specific person. who punched this order through the Provisional Government. Yes, yes, yes, of the same one - born in Simbirsk, a native of an education family, a lawyer.

[Ulan]

Sasha Kerensky for what? Nice guy.

[Ulan]

Reds are the people. The people who drove out Kolchak and its invading masters and all other wrangels.

[Hort]

you forgot about the monuments to Frunze, Kotovsky, Tukhachevsky, Yezhov and Beria,

[V.ic]

Quote: hort

you forgot about the monuments to Frunze, Kotovsky, Tukhachevsky, Yezhov and Beria,

Let's install them at the Yeltsin Center?

[Hort]

let's not just consider some as sanctuaries and fighters for national wealth, and others as enemies of the people. Because in the same civilian peasants were robbed and killed, and those and these

[V.ic]

Quote: hort

we will not consider some to be sanctuaries and fighters for national wealth, and others to be enemies of the people.

So you do not warm up with the ball outside the field, but, to the best of your ability, throw yourself into the tackle of the attacker at the gate of the crystal bakers / belolentochnik. Something sad and cursing screams at "our" "fifth column" did not hear from you or you can afford it away from the computer, under the covers and mentally?

[Hort]

Why do I need to write any damnations in the internet? With belolentochnikami and so everything is clear.

[Basil50]

The author of the word picked up * round * and a lot of them and all about respect. That's just why you need to respect the criminal? Kolchak himself crossed out his words of merit when he swore four times to FOUR different states. When on behalf of * Entente * he was appointed dictator of RUSSIA and became famous for drug use and atrocities. His accomplices surrendered precisely because of the atrocities committed.
Of course, many years have passed and the descendants of the whites, besides robbing the people, * for the soul *, would like to rehabilitate outright sacking, and it’s kind of like to show the continuity and * legitimacy * of theft. True, some pretend to the nobility and * clan estates * with slaves. It is in this that lies such indefatigable and frankly vile propaganda of TRAITORS.

[insular]

The proletariat ponad u.
To the bourgeoisie on a gilyak.
Lenin will restore order.
Here they are your red. No different from bonfireheads in one deceased state. The guys in the Donbas also took the oath twice. In Crimea, three times, so what? Shout traitors at them?
Sovsm crazy already ...

Zadav Poroshenko Donbas, all its leaders will also be traitors and murderers for history.

And after their victory, how long Stalin had to use red-hot iron to burn this red, revolutionary rot ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: insular

The proletariat ponad u.
To the bourgeoisie on a gilyak.
Lenin will restore order.

This is October. And before him was February:
The bourgeoisie ponad u.
Tsarjaku on a gilyak.
Guchkov come - restore order. Oh, not Guchkov - Lviv. Oh, not Lviv - Kerensky.
Down with the death penalty ... oh no, turn it back at the front.

Quote: insular

The guys in the Donbas also took the oath twice. In Crimea, three times, so what?

Never mind.

[Ulan]

Oh how they want and the hereditary nobility and become counts and princes and clan estates and slaves.

[Fox]

Quote: insular

Did the Reds kill any other people? Your arguments are excellent.

excellent ... from yours. and the fact that your ancestors survived is an occasion to think about WHAT is wrong with your arguments, and WHOM were your ancestors ... but, hike, think for weaklings! spread fertilizers!

[insular]

Quote: Fox

excellent ... from yours. and the fact that your ancestors survived is an occasion to think about WHAT is wrong with your arguments, and WHOM were your ancestors ... but, hike, think for weaklings! spread fertilizers!

My ancestors were ordinary peasants. And unlike you, I am AGAINST both sides. Those peasants who were robbed by both white and red.
But I have forgiven the desecration of history and the confrontation about this.
It is time to take on to measure both sides and live on.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Fox

excellent ... from yours. and the fact that your ancestors survived is a reason to think WHAT is wrong with your arguments, and WHOM were your ancestors

And you don’t hurt the ancestors, you are already in the police. Yes and there are no more your police. And the monarchy will be in Russia!

[CONTROL]

And the monarchy in Russia will be!

...Twice!!! or three ...
.... The Plantagenet Dynasty will take its!

[Ulan]

Br-r-r-r. What was that? And who are the "horns"?

[bober1982]

Listen, is it possible to have such a conversation, in which school did you study? in what family were raised?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: bober1982

Listen, is it possible to have such a conversation, in which school did you study?

Can parents and grandfathers be touched?

[Smog]

Romanov, why the American flag ???? Vladik joined Alaska? When?
Or emigrated, before the arrival of the autocrat of All Russia ?????

[Was mammoth]

"To begin, let us respect the opinions of other people and learn to accept someone else's point of view, rather than waving a red flag and shouting: “Whoever is not with us is against us.”"
This first line already says that the author does not respect the opinion that is different from his Those. offers his opinion as truth. And, at the same time, it spills accusations.
“An outstanding Russian officer, scientist and researcher Alexander V. Kolchak lived in this house from 1905 to 1912.” And where, the second half:
"Tunic English,
Shoulder strap french
Japanese tobacco,
Ruler of Omsk ".
Not a word about his supreme reign. And about the victims of his reign.
If it was "immortalized" on the board and his more famous side of life one could take this board.
So that people know that not only a geographer, but an executioner lived in this house. In the end, Dracula is immortalized.
“Above all, respect the opinions of other people. And take a different point of view."
I can not. For me, he is, first of all, a man who stained himself with the blood of his (his?) People. And then the geographer. Participation in the Civil War does not give indulgence to atrocities. Moreover, not from the "rabble" (what can be taken from them?), But from a kind of educated "blue" blood.
PS The lawyer didn’t get a speech

[fif21]

Quote: There was a mammoth

PS The lawyer didn’t get a speech

This is not a lawyer This is a provocateur! As Julius Fucek said, "People be careful!"

[Was mammoth]

Quote: fif21

This is not a lawyer laughing This is a provocateur! negative As Julius Fucek said, "People be careful!"

You are wrong, this is Kolchak's "tolerance". Reconciliation is, accept my point of view, otherwise I will tear off the skin of a seder or a star on my back.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: There was a mammoth

You are wrong, this is Kolchak's "tolerance". Reconciliation is, accept my point of view, otherwise I will cut out a skin or a star on my back.

Admiral Kolchak
In Moscow, the struggle with the Bolsheviks will end. But Bolshevism, as a denial of statehood, morality, duty and obligations to the country, is a phenomenon that has embraced the country widely, requiring a stubborn and united struggle between the government and society.
How right he was! Great man. Great country!

[Was mammoth]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

But Bolshevism, as a denial of statehood, morality, duty and obligations to the country, is a phenomenon that has embraced the country widely, requiring a stubborn and united struggle between the government and society.

Somewhere I heard something like that. Either from Chubais, or Zhirinovsky, or from whom else?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: There was a mammoth

Either from Chubais, or Zhirinovsky, or from whom else?

This is from ... Something with my memory has become. Sadly, yes, but time puts everything in its place. Oh yes, how pleasant it is now to read people like you and see your helplessness.
Judas Iscariot symbolized the Jews for centuries, and what a collection of such individuals our democracy, our "God-bearing people" gave.
Admiral Kolchak

[Ulan]

Kolchak compared himself to Judas? Correctly compared.

[Ulan]

Yeah ... "morality from Kolchak and rushing .... on English money.

[Stas157]

Quote: There was a mammoth

For me, he is, first of all, a man who has stained himself with the blood of his (his own?) People.

But who didn’t stain themselves with blood in the Civil War ?? Reds or what? All were good. Why measure who is more, who is more to the right? It would be time to stop. Ended Civil then!
The article is correct.

[vvv-73]

Not over yet.

[Ulan]

As long as there are such provocative articles and memorial plaques, the war will not end. And not the "red" provoke it.

[parusnik]

Everything goes to how in France during the Restoration period. In a history lesson, the teacher asks the student: Who won the battle of Marengo? General of His Majesty Bonopart ...

[Shurale]

Oh, by the way, what about the money that Lenin received for his revolution?

What do you know about this money? There is a letter from Lenin stating that he received the money and leaves for Russia, however, only the first half of the letter was published, in the second half Lenin transferred from whom and how much, it is clearly said that these were comrades revolutionaries and the amount was ridiculous, something about 5000 rubles , just for the passage of 50 people from Germany to Russia, more like a lie, my friend.

the surplus appraisal simply cannot be compared with Kolchak’s crimes.

For information, the leadership of tsarist Russia was still engaged in food reconnaissance, Germany was also indoctrinated, and so Poland is still remembered, and the provisional government did not shy away from feeding the state in this way, of course, the Bolsheviks are not guilty ...

PS First of all, respect the opinions of other people. And take another point of view. She has the right to exist.

I am ready to listen to the opinion and other point of view, NO - a lie.

CAPITALS Article - MINUS.

[Orionvit]

Quote: insular

Even the Red Terror and the Age of Redness could not hide from the history of the vile deals of Ulyanov with Europe

Facts in the studio. We have already heard about the "sealed" carriage. Now please personally about Ulyanov, where is the evidence? I am not at all a fan of the Bolsheviks, but there is no need to repeat the liberal pseudo history written in the 90s.

[insular]

Quote: Orionvit

Facts in the studio. We have already heard about the "sealed" carriage. Now please personally about Ulyanov, where is the evidence? I am not at all a fan of the Bolsheviks, but there is no need to repeat the liberal pseudo history written in the 90s.

How do I like it ... Favorite reds. Throw the accusation, and on the counter argumant demand incontrovertible evidence.
The facts of Ulyanov’s ties with Europe are much more than Kolchak’s ties with Europe. Despite the fact that Kolchak did not have a hundred odds to clean his tails and he is the losing side, but there is no conclusive evidence. No matter how you puffed and puffed out cheeks.

[Shurale]

Can I have the facts? I understand that you do not like to prove your stupid accusations, but people will not believe if there is no evidence.

Pysy, a sealed wagon is such a thing that ALL who crossed the exit states to which stations required visas traveled, so the wagons were sealed, so many moved before Lenin and after, there was nothing criminal at the time in the sealed wagons. You see, there is nothing wrong with the facts, except that they do not give lies ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Shurale

See, there’s nothing wrong with the facts,

And the fact that the Germans took the money is also garbage. Lesha bulk agrees with you.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Lesha bulk agrees with you.

Kolchak even applauds!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: There was a mammoth

Kolchak even applauds!

And Denikin smiles from heaven. But the prophet was
Author: Denikin A. I.

When the world rests over our poor country, and all-healing time turns the bloody past into the distant past, the Russian people will remember those who were the first to defend Russia from the red scourge.

Admiral Kolchak
We are waging a mortal struggle with Bolshevism, which cannot end with a treaty or agreement, because in this struggle we defend the Motherland against the International, freedom against tyranny and culture against savagery. In this fight, we have no honest opponents, there are gangs of robbers led by international refuse.
We remember Kolchak as well, but you are forgotten!

[Was mammoth]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

we defend the Motherland against the International, freedom against tyranny and culture against savagery.

Learn more about freedom and culture and for whom. In numbers please

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: There was a mammoth

Learn more about freedom and culture and for whom. In numbers please

To whom, you have numbers, but I beg you. We do not owe you anything to the Bolsheviks. You past and your situation with the demand for some numbers, it looks as if a thief caught in the act requires your rights to be respected. Glory to Russia !! !
The Russian is not the one who bears the Russian surname, but the one who loves Russia and considers it his homeland.
Denikin

[Aleksander]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

We owe you the Bolsheviks nothing more. You are the past

The communists are all puffing up, puffing out their cheeks, rolling their eyes “menacingly” and thinking that everyone is scared as before, but everyone is just ridiculous today. Red Book endangered dinosaurs ......

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Aleksander

Red Book Endangered Dinosaurs ......

Ahahah, we’ll soon go to the museum to look at them. Urgently put in the red book

[Ulan]

A cuckoo praises a rooster. Look how fooled .... warriors sofa.

[Shurale]

And the fact that the Germans took the money is also garbage.

Facts please provide ...

[insular]

Quote: Shurale

Can I have the facts? I understand that you do not like to prove your stupid accusations, but people will not believe if there is no evidence.

1. You bring the facts, on what means the spark was issued. Who I contacted. Well, according to the list: Financing of the RSDLP (b), Sealed wagon and Parvus’s activities as a whole, financing of unrest in Russia by Germany, Lenin in German embassies, the Foreign Bureau of the Central Committee ... I just listed without going into details ....
2. "Stupid" - this word refers personally to your person because the transition to personalities is not from a big mind.
3. The facts of Kolchak's betrayal?

Quote: Shurale

You see, there is nothing wrong with the facts, except that they do not give lies ...

Absolutely agreeable. I generally support dubious sources of funding and closed loads (just kidding). How could this have occurred to you?
You now openly pulled a condom on the globe.))

[Shurale]

1. You bring the facts, on what means the spark was issued. Who I contacted. Well, according to the list: Financing of the RSDLP (b), Sealed wagon and Parvus’s activities as a whole, financing of unrest in Russia by Germany, Lenin in German embassies, the Foreign Bureau of the Central Committee ... I just listed without going into details ....

These are not facts, but a listing of lies, you give me the facts. Give me documents, eyewitness accounts ...
Financing of the RSDLP was carried out from different countries by like-minded people of Lenin, etc., there are documents, as well as the letter of Lenin before sending it with a delegation from Germany.

a sealed wagon is such a thing that ALL who crossed the states went to the exit to the stations which required visas, so the sealed wagons, so many moved before Lenin and after, there was nothing criminal at the time in the sealed wagons.

Parvus’s activity came down to asking him money from Germany and other countries with offers to conduct activities in Russia on an equal footing, but that’s where his actions ended, everything he did went to the revolutionaries and promised everyone, he came to Lenin in the same way, which he received By the way, a powerful promise, there is data ...

In the remaining charges, I ask for more information, not unfounded ...
Anyone knows how to list stamps from a TV ...

[SMS]

Where do you have the facts? One empty bullshit!

[Orionvit]

Quote: insular

And after their victory, how long Stalin had to use red-hot iron to burn this red, revolutionary rot ...

Stalin burned the rot, but did not change the official ideology of the state of workers and peasants. Except for the idea of ​​a world revolution.

[insular]

Quote: Orionvit

Stalin burned the rot, but did not change the official ideology of the state of workers and peasants. Except for the idea of ​​a world revolution.

Because what to change radically when stripping is to risk a new civil. Do you understand what you are writing about?
If there are still many sympathizers for white, then what could be said about those times?

It's about the way it is today. Putin significantly eliminated the filth of Yeltsin, but he did not change the basic idiology and did not clean it up, because the whole country is still explosive. By the way, Putin’s attitude to the Bolsheviks was in his answer about the fact that they created a backlog for the collapse of the country, and their main opponent Kolchak fought for a single country, with the preservation of all lands ... A good agent of Europe))

[Orionvit]

Because what to change radically when stripping is to risk a new civil. Do you understand what you are writing about?

Unlike you, I perfectly understand what I am writing about. What does the Stalinist sweep have to do with it? Or after the purge of the 30s, did he change the policy of the state? Today, “sympathizers” with whites are people who are sick with unhealthy romance and are not satisfied with life, wherever they are. I repeat, Kolchak fought for "his" Russia, where 95 percent of the population was "rabble", but this so-called "rabble" strongly disagreed with this, which he showed on a historical example. And as for the collapse of the country. And here are the Bolsheviks a hundred years ago, when just yesterday the Western special services were closely involved in this, having invested tens of billions of dollars in this event, and with the assistance of traitors on the ground, whose names are known to everyone. And judging by such attempts to rewrite history, they are doing this today.

[bober1982]

Andropov said that we do not know for ourselves what we have built, and here is the whole ideology of the state of workers and peasants.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Orionvit

Stalin burned the rot, but did not change the official ideology of the state of workers and peasants. Except for the idea of ​​a world revolution.

That is, the rejection of one of the fundamental ideas of the previous ideology - this means did not change the official ideology of the state of workers and peasants?
Comrade Trotsky, after such a refusal, branded Joseph Vissarionovich a counterrevolutionary, compromiser, and simply a traitor to the ideals of October.

[sergbasic]

Personally, I relate to the activities of Comrade. Kolchak is completely indifferent. However, I want to note that the phrase

... let's respect the opinions of other people and learn to accept someone else's point of view ...

, the crown is precisely for those representatives of the human race who follow it extremely reluctantly (or do not follow it at all).

[CONTROL]

respect the opinions of other people. And take a different point of view. She has a right to exist.

I respect you. I accept ...
But - from this Kolchak, Denikin, and others like that, don’t stop BEING criminals!
Many officers of the tsarist army, not having - to put it mildly - sympathy for the Bolsheviks, served them; although - they could have "stepped aside", did not take the side of the whites, nor did they go with the reds ... However - ...
Looking at what the "knights" of the white movement did, how they sold their homeland (and what they prepared for it in the future in case of victory!) - they took the side of the not dearly beloved "reds" ... with their "red terror" .. ...
-----------------
As for state criminals - we had them before, there are now: those who live and are in positions ... Name? Gorbachev, say, Chu ... well, further down the list! ...
So - "do not boast, walking ..." - well, not to the latrine!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: CONTROL

But - from this Kolchak, Denikin, and others like that, don’t stop BEING criminals!

For the communists they are criminals, and for the Russians they are officers!

[CONTROL]

For the communists they are criminals, and for the Russians they are officers!

... violated the oath, committed war crimes!
...and what? We already have criminal presidents! and cockroaches to be there too ... Show?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: CONTROL

... violated the oath, committed war crimes!

Escho letters. By the way, you have a cool selfie on av
It only remains to write or write (depending on where the emphasis is put), you are no longer capable of anything more because the people behind you will never see again.

[Ulan]

He doesn’t follow you either. Tell me, who in the last elections voted for the party of monarchists and where to look at it?

[Ulan]

Russian with the American flag, it is something like a pithecanthropus with a Kalashnikov assault rifle. That is, things are incompatible.

[Engineer]

He, as an officer of the tsarist army, swore allegiance to the tsar, and then betrayed him, taking the side of the conspirators. This is a war crime. In addition, this is a betrayal of the entire white movement, since it was monarchist. How can you then call him one of the leaders of this movement? Then he betrayed the provisional government, then the Americans, the British, then he betrayed the remnants of the constituent assembly, or rather destroyed it physically. Those. the concept of "officer's honor" is not known to him. Betrayed everyone he could. So why should I respect Kolchak and consider him a patriot?

[bober1982]

What is interesting, as soon as they begin to talk about respect for someone else’s opinion, a different point of view, respect for each other, then a real howl and cries of hatred immediately rise the main thing is to fart the brain louder, all this is a common thread in many comments. Demons tremble and worry.

[fif21]

1. Tukhachevsky, Beria, Kolchak, Nikolai - were shot. The reward (God's punishment) found the heroes! Demolished monuments to Lenin .... and glorify the king, Manerheim, Kolchak ...! There is a reformatting of people's consciousness!
Question for what? But what about the people's memory of the atrocities of both? I consider Kolchak a murderer and a traitor! You are a hero and a martyr, let's continue to split society And in Russia they are able to defend their beliefs not only in writing. Russia needs a movement forward, the development of the economy and civil society, the consolidation of society, and not its split! Although, what am I talking about! You still won’t calm down until you ruin Russia

[Orionvit]

Quote: insular

Did the Reds kill any other people? Your arguments are excellent.

First, the Bolsheviks were not alone in making the revolution, they were one of many revolutionary parties, and far from the very first. But when the moment came, only the Bolsheviks found the strength to take power in a period of complete anarchy and then restore order. Maybe someone does not like the methods of putting things in order, but as I understand it, in a torn and destroyed country it was impossible to do otherwise. Moreover, wherever you go, everywhere there were Kolchaks, with their own vision of Russia and their own ambitions for power.

[Meliodous]

Yes, everything would be fine, but not only the Soviet, but also recognized him as a war criminal Our Russian court in 1999. Although he could rehabilitate, only he didn’t. It would seem why ...

[Orionvit]

Exactly. B90s. "rehabilitated" all who were not lazy, but for some reason they did not.

[vladim.gorbunow]

Kolchak is a deserter and a serviceman of the US armed forces, participants in the intervention, accused of mass crimes against the Russian population. He began his political activity with the armed seizure of power in Omsk and the shooting of deputies of the Constituent Assembly. Is there a board A.A. Ignatieff, cavalry lieutenant general, military agent (attache) in France? In 1925, he transferred to the Soviet government funds belonging to Russia (225 million francs in gold) and invested in his name in French banks. Where is the board of Brusilov? Where is the artillery general A.A. Manikovsky - the start of the Empire and the Republic, the creator of the industrialization plan of Russia? Where are the boards and monuments to generals, admirals, colonels: Bonch-Bruevich, Lebedev, Petin, Samoilo, Parsky, Egoriev, Razvozov, Berens, von Taube, Nemits, Kamenev, Potapov, von Olderroge, Alfater. A total of 75 thousand officers and generals of the old army, who rose to fight the invaders and occupiers and their Russian accomplices. But Lieutenant General Taube was shot by order of Admiral Kolchak for information. Lieutenant General A.A. Ignatiev

[vladim.gorbunow]

Lieutenant General A.A. Ignatiev

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Interesting opinion. Can you give the source of the figure of 75 thousand?

[Bashibuzuk]

Sources googled easily. Or Yandex. Or yahuyuyutsya.
Just imagine that one part of the Russian officers served ... all the same, the homeland, Russia (and also died later, under repression or whatever).
and the other part, "advanced" so to speak, fought against .... those who fought for their homeland.
...
To make it clearer, I will say that Homeland is still a geographical concept. Primarily. After all, Kolchak, Denikin, Yudenich, Wrangel didn’t fight for a “single and indivisible” thread in Uganda. Or in Antarctica. Let, say, in Paraguay they smash someone there, in the name of a united and holy Russia. No, they were flooded precisely on the territory of the Russian empire.
And now what?
And what one prince once said - "... let them welcome to visit us without fear. But if someone with a sword comes to Russia" ... then bones will remain of him. The most important thing here is ... will come ..! If they stayed in place, then the demand would be different.
And the whole trick. Pocus
At the same time I would ask the liberal democrats not to exert themselves so much with the advancement of their opinion. And then an impression is created. that tensing with their opinion, they overdid it. The face is red, drooling from the mouth .... well, I won’t talk about other physiological details. And this is what literally spills onto me from the monitor.
So unloved by you "red", gentlemen antagonists, conduct discussions much more decently than you, the last of the "blue blood". Even from the peasants.
For information, I am red. From the peasants.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

That is, You these sources are not present? Anyone can google, and you prove, prove your numbers by a source, not an unfounded statement.

[Ulan]

Let them strain. They do not understand the simple truth that the more they pour dirt on the USSR, the more supporters of the USSR.
The same thing happens with the blackening of Stalin, the more dirt is addressed to him, the more people respect him.
So they are the best agitators for Soviet power.
Though stupid, but they try their best. They would be silent and the majority would have forgotten both about the revolution and about Stalin, and they do not allow people to forget the great country and great leaders.
By the way, for some reason, there is no monarchist party in Russia, probably because you are dumb ... go join it.
That’s the exact assessment, to all this wretched team.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

Interesting opinion. Can you give the source of the figure of 75 thousand?

70-75 thousand officers of the former tsarist army in the service of the Reds - this is a figure from Kfvtaradze.
According to Volkov, this is not a figure of officers, but of persons in officer and class ranks (i.e., including officials and medical staff), and there were about 50 thousand officers:

In total, from July 12, 1918 to August 15, 1920, 48409 former officers, 10339 military officials, 13949 doctors and 26766 people were called up to the Red Army. nursing staff, i.e. 72697 persons in officer and class ranks. These figures are recognized recently in the Soviet official publications as the most reliable and are not disputed by anyone.
(...)
The numbers of conscription are 48,5 thousand, as well as 12 thousand former white officers should be recognized as completely reliable as based on documented list data. But they practically exhaust the entire composition of officers who have ever served in the Red Army, i.e. even taking the reliable figure of 8 thousand volunteers, in total no more than 68 thousand officers and more than 24 thousand doctors and military officials served. By the end of the war, officers could not have been more than this number, for several thousand passed to the whites and died, and there were, as indicated in a number of works, 70-75 thousand people. along with doctors and officials. Officers in this case should be approximately 50 thousand, which quite realistically reflects the loss.

However, why be surprised - if the officers of the General Staff were divided between the White and the Reds in the ratio of 750: 639 ...

[Aleksander]

Quote: vladim.gorbunow

Is there a board A.A. Ignatieff, cavalry lieutenant general, military agent (attache) in France?

This villain DAMNED by his native MOTHER and BROTHER? Yes Yes.

By the way, why all this abomination (nonsense about 75 thousand, of course) is not worth the monuments from that power, which they served by weakness, thoughtlessness and duress?

By the 1941 war, only a few hundred officers of the Imperial Army remained in the army. The rest, overwhelmingly, in expense, camps and defeats in rights. AND DIVISION! —That's what it was- BOARD.

[Ulan]

But he was not cursed and 180 million citizens of the USSR were grateful to him.

[Orionvit]

Quote: insular

How do I like it ... Favorite reds. Throw the accusation, and on the counter argumant demand incontrovertible evidence.

Excellent. I like the same technique to hang labels and then let them justify themselves. If we are red, then you are "dear" please tell us your "color" orientation, so that the people know what you are trying to achieve, and whom you are justifying. Are you a supporter of "white" ideas? Or maybe "gays", then all this hatred for the winners is understandable.

[Dekabrist]

Yes, really, this is not the time for such memorial plaques. Count a hundred years have passed, and the Civil War is not over yet. Only then did most people know what they were fighting for, and now more by tradition.

[unknown]

Unfortunately, I have to agree. The civil war is not over. And there were no rightists in that war. The coups of 1917 were planned from above. The interim government worked for Great Britain, the USA, France. On the other hand, V.I. Ulyanov and two wagons of revolutionaries, relying on the help of Germany, and from the USA, Bronstein and a whole ship of revolutionaries, among them Nikolai Karpov (Lenin), who enlisted the help of the USA. The Red Army was ruled by tsarist generals. The Entente helped the Bolsheviks more than the White movement. There was brutality on both sides. And the elite, in 1919, from the Crimea, aboard the English battleship Marlboro, together with the gold reserve, left the destroyed and plundered country.

[kapitan281271]

Let there be a CPR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Article plus. Roman, thank you for your calm and balanced argument.

[novel66]

I read here somehow a book about this subject. authors with saliva of emotion painted a remarkable biography. for myself concluded:
1 Kolchak is a careerist with a good "hairy paw"
2 the infamous type took away his wife from a colleague
3 mediocre admiral, who also blew up a flagship under his ass (even if he shot himself)
4 mediocre ruler, having good resources (gold, gentlemen!) Could not do anything exactly
5 executioner of his people
and as a conclusion - the place of this board in the same place where he is at the bottom!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: novel xnumx

and as a conclusion - the place of this board in the same place where he is at the bottom!

Dream further, soon we will demolish the mausoleums and wash the chlorochka

[fif21]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

We’ll soon demolish the mausoleums and wash the chlorine waters

Hussein also had bleach! Chemical weapons, however. What kind of checkbox do you have? Are you washing the Capitol? Or, again, a conference on the "Greenhouse Effect"? And a small grandee from friends of Russia?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: fif21

. And what kind of flag do you have? Capitol wash?

I go to the capitol to piss

Quote: fif21

And a small grand from friends of Russia?

Are you a friend of Russia?

[novel66]

the mausoleum for me is not a fetish even once. and the body must still be interred, according to God's laws and human

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: novel xnumx

the mausoleum for me is not a fetish even once. and the body must still be interred, according to God's laws and human

I would slap you on the shoulder, time is running. People are changing. Soon there will be in the Church. Good deed

[novel66]

not soon, as unbaptized I prefer to believe where I am, so to speak without a show

[Ulan]

There was already a request to the Russian Orthodox Church whether the presence of the body of Lenin in the Mausoleum corresponds to Orthodox traditions. The answer is fully consistent. Will you argue with the Russian Orthodox Church?
By the way, they did not forget that the mausoleum is an ordinary crypt, burial in crypts in Russia is a long tradition.
Incidentally, the famous Russian surgeon Pirogov also lies in the Mausoleum.
BUT! Personally, I am also not opposed to giving the body of Lenin to the earth. BUT! again, I do not see any urgent need for this, except for the desire of a small handful of people with a psyche shifted to necrophilia.
I think our children and grandchildren will solve this issue calmly without screaming and hysteria. unless of course it will be necessary.
The Mausoleum does not interfere with me personally and does not interfere with work.
Well, about those for whom the main question in life is the burial of Lenin's body, the people have long thought of it - the cat has nothing to do, he licks "Faberge".

[Orionvit]

BUT! Personally, I am also not opposed to giving the body of Lenin to the earth. BUT! again, I do not see any urgent need for this, except for the desire of a small handful of people with a psyche shifted to necrophilia.

Then I agree. The cult of the dead is the worship of all relics, mummies and similar satanic themes. The mausoleum is not just a crypt, it is a Babylonian ziggurat built according to all the rules of occult science, with a dead body inside, and its purpose is known to a narrow circle of people. It’s time to raise this issue. The cult of the dead does not lead to life and rebirth.

[Freeman]

Orionvit Today, 09:15 PM ↑ New
<< BUT! Personally, I am also not against giving Lenin's body to the earth. BUT! again, I do not see any urgent need for this, except for the desire of a small handful of people with a psyche shifted to necrophilia. >>
Then I agree. The cult of the dead is the worship of all relics, mummies and similar satanic themes.

As you famously recorded all Christians as Satanists.

[Freeman]

Volnoper Today, 13:20 PM
Sorry, it was published before it finished. I will fix it.

Orionvit Today, 09:15
The cult of the dead is the worship of all relics, mummies and similar satanic themes ...
It’s time to raise this issue.

As you famously recorded all Christians as Satanists. We still lacked a "holivar".

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Dream further, soon we will demolish the mausoleums and wash the chlorochka

Well said - in the Bolshevik way!

Renounce the old world
Shake off his ashes from our feet ...

[vvv-73]

And you are not in a hurry to demolish something, then you’ll have to lie still!

[Ulan]

Where is the party of monarchists in Russia?

[Oleg_ru]

It is worth evaluating Kolchak, in comparison.
On the example of modern events in Ukraine, where power was also seized in a revolutionary way, followed by the outbreak of a "civil war" in Ukraine.
Voluntary national battalions of Ukraine are involved in many crimes (robbery, torture, murder) of civilians, not to mention prisoners of war. In contrast, the defenders of the DPR and LPR, who were not convicted of such crimes, and even vice versa showed acts of humanism in relation to prisoners of war.
It turns out that Kolchak, in those days, could well do without repressions of his people.
And by modern standards, the actions of Kolchak are nothing better than the actions of the national battalions of Ukraine, which are now terrorizing the citizens of the LPR and the DPR.

[baudolino]

Good article. For those who are mired in their own complexes: here I am Russian, and here I am Soviet. And who risks being in the place of the current dill, whose great-grandfathers lived in Austria-Hungary, grandfathers in Poland, fathers in the USSR, and they in Ukraine. And so they have no homeland (one that is one for all time).

[Russia]

We got these "whites" of "white and fluffy"!
I repeat once again - these "white and fluffy" should have settled with their "benefactors and sponsors" from their savings? Or parts of Russia? After all, if it were not for the "kind sponsors of these white and fluffy", fueling the Civil War, it / the war / ended much faster and bloodlessly! And do not tell me after that about the "honor of the officer - Kolchak" who "modestly" called himself the "Supreme Ruler" and is going to war against his people. One question - for whose interests? And the "white movement" existed exclusively on "their own savings and honest earnings of its members." Aha ...!
Ordinary terrorists on Western grants - in modern terminology.

[unknown]

Both white and red existed on the western grandees.
And the red ones, like winners, completely paid for these grandees.
There was such a historian, Igor Bunich.
Wrote the book "Gold of the Party". A quarter of a century has passed. But the book is relevant.

[nikowolf]

Good day to you gentlemen and ladies.
Reading from time to time the commentary on articles about Kolchak and Manerheim, I noticed that no one is asking the question, but why do this. Just to increase the number of monuments, but the point. Someone all the time presses on the idea of ​​restoring the old monuments of the leaders and rulers of the Soviet period. How will this help you or others? Will the shadow create in the summer heat?
Do you know how much they all cost, these without useful monuments? Millions Why not let this money to help those in need. On surgery, seriously ill children, on the development of medicine, renew honey. equipment. We have more and more people on the verge of poverty, more and more people are dying because they do not have money for treatment and most of them have children. Why not spend this money specifically on the needs of the people?
For me, here is a betrayal of their own people.
I’ll subscribe to my own words, since I myself earn a little and still give money to those in need. Since the father himself also understands the pain of people whose children suffer.
Peace and happiness to your home.

[Orionvit]

drew attention to the fact that no one is wondering, but why do this

The answer is very simple and lies on the surface. Someone throws such controversial projects (and they don’t care about the money and frankly do not give a damn about the poor, because, firstly, they are not Russians, and secondly they are enemies of Russia), trying to sow discord between citizens reborn Russia. Along the way, check the reaction of the people, followed by an analysis of events and the implementation of new projects for the collapse of Russia.

[Orionvit]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

We owe you the Bolsheviks nothing more

Oh how. You are '' dear 'as I understand it. A monarchist. Maybe also of “noble bloods”? So here's my proletarian answer. YOUR time has passed back in 1917. And all that remains for you is just to bleed out poison and click your teeth. Contrary to your wishes, Russia will never have a monarchy. At least in your Romanov understanding, because the people said their word a hundred years ago. And you don't have to pretend to be Russian, Puchkov correctly said, “anti-Soviet means, by definition, Russophobe ".

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Orionvit

YOUR time has passed back in 1917.

Ahahahah, which is probably why they erect monuments to Kolchak. Hello comrade hello

[fif21]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Ahahahah, which is probably why they erect monuments to Kolchak.

And we’ll put a monument to Putin, and pay, so Romanov’s sheep.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: fif21

and Romanov’s sheep.

And the Bolsheviks. Besides how to be rude is not capable of anything. So. Tap on the clave from powerlessness. How did Talkov sing - CPSU SS

[fif21]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

But the Bolsheviks. Besides how to be rude is nothing and is not capable of.

I am not a Bolshevik I am a businessman! I need stability in the country, not your ideological squabble. Business, nothing personal! Turned VO into a factory of discord

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: fif21

I am not a Bolshevik. I am a businessman!

There was one "businessman" Tra-nzhira. In fact, he turned out to be a drunken alcoholic and not only.

Quote: fif21

I need stability in the country

Ulyukaev, are you?

Quote: fif21

Turned VO into a factory of discord

You do not have access to other sites?

[Ulan]

Where is the party of monarchists in Russia and how much has it gained in the elections?

[Orionvit]

And the Bolsheviks. Besides how to be rude is nothing and is not capable of

Take a look at the mirror, and then re-read your comments. Nothing but anger, rudeness and pouring mud at people who do not agree that Kolchak does not need a board, for some reason I did not notice.

[Orionvit]

Well, I will not give my greetings to Comrade Lenin, since I personally do not know him, but once again, I’ll answer you. One board in St. Petersburg has already been hung, and where is it? Kolchakov's project will have the same fate. It is not necessary to consider the people to be stupid, for the most part, they perfectly understand everything. The last time he (the people) bought into sweet speeches like you in the late 80s, and learned a strong lesson. And about Lenin, open your eyes and see what is happening in the Ukraine. It all started with the destruction of Lenin's monuments, then memorial plaques to Bandera and Shukhevych. So your logic is visible to the naked eye. The question to fill in, if already such a monarchist and patriot of the Russian Empire, then please answer, Ukraine, is it a part of Russia, or is it an "independent state"?

[kapitan281271]

My grandfather, the Order of Glory, two medals for courage, two orders of the red star, two orders of the Second World War, called that power * Lyadsky, therefore it’s stupid about Russophobes and anti-advisers, and I don’t need to repeat it, but I said it first to the elderly and with rapture The elections weren’t, of course, of course, but they were asking, and the civil war speaks for whom the people supported it, since it happened because it’s not the Martians and the Jupiters who wet each other, it’s us and the Russians who wet the Russians , and someone really tried to make it happen, so they C * UCI really not!

[Orionvit]

it’s us and you, it’s the Russians who wet the Russians, and someone really tried to make it happen, so they C * UCI really not!

Here you yourself answered your own question. Yes, it was we who wet each other, but someone did their best. And he is trying very hard now. Similar stuffing with "memorial" plaques of traitors and executioners, a continuation of the very project of the collapse of Russia. Only then did the "hated" Bolsheviks interfere first, then Stalin, and now Putin. And some people still think that the People of Russia would be by.dlom, but the majority of the people see and understand everything.

[wildcat3981]

Nobody denies that Kolchak the researcher and Kolchak the naval commander deserve very good reviews (the story of "Goeben", remember how mine laying still slowed down this damn raider). But Kolchak the ruler deserves abusive reviews. Okay, he's out of place. But HIS people are responsible for what they did in Siberia. And they threw off Kolchak not red, if that. To summarize, a person has done both good and extremely bad. Do not forget, all sorts of memorial plaques are superfluous.

[Orionvit]

Quote: There was a mammoth

Learn more about freedom and culture and for whom. In numbers please

Don't you understand? The type of "patriot" of Russia was drawn, of course, a monarchist, by definition, cannot but be a "patriot", so to speak, a "white bone" under the American flag. It is clear for whom freedom and culture are definitely not for us. We are the heirs of the "bloody" Bolsheviks, from their point of view, so to speak. How these "fighters" for the historical "truth" are jarred by words like - Bolsheviks, Communists, Lenin, Stalin and so on.

[Ulan]

Well, let it establish a monarchy in America.

[NordUral]

I will remind once again how, by whom and by what methods the revolution in Russia began. And for me personally, there is no greater crime than a deliberate desire to betray the country in such a difficult period. And everyone already knows that the situation with bread in Petrograd was artificially created. But this is a different topic. It is not necessary to whitewash and blacken others just because you were born under the USSR and you were told so at school. History is not divided into black and white, it has a lot of gray moments, and in my opinion there are most of them.

In more detail, please, and more precisely about the situation with bread.
Yes, we have been living outside the Union for 25 years, but this does not mean at all that that system was wrong. Governors of the country were bad, starting from the 53rd year, to varying degrees - from just bad to the enemy of the country and people.

[Azzi]

Kolchak is the only one of the white leaders who got to the red. It is believed that he got to them solely thanks to the "allies", in retaliation for his intractability to trade in the interests of the Motherland, even in such conditions.
Yes, there was cocaine, but:
1. It was not considered then something out of the ordinary. Remind about heroin in pharmacies as a sedative for children?
2. For him merits in the field of science and defense of his homeland. Anyway, anyone would not be able to prepare an landing for Istanbul.

The personality is ambiguous, but the time is extraordinary. And this is not a monument in the central square, it is a MEMORIAL plaque, and why something, and this is what it deserves, at least as long as Lenin Street exists in every city, even if its memorial plaque is somewhere.

[pussamussa]

Compare Lenin with a booger. For the fact that Lenin led the rout of foreign intervention and the White Guard, he already deserved to have his monuments everywhere. If the interventionists had won, we would all be present here and not in the project.

[CONTROL]

Quote: wildcat3981

Kolchak the researcher and Kolchak the naval commander deserve very good reviews ... But Kolchak the ruler deserves obscene reviews.
... And Kolchak was not thrown off the red, if that. Summarizing - a person has done both good and extremely bad. Do not forget, all sorts of memorial boards are superfluous.

He easily retrained from a naval researcher to ... whom? hematologist pathologist?
... more corpses! and blood denser ... Provide research material! ...
Something like this ...

[novel66]

as the naval commander also raises big questions, in fact, like the entire fleet, you don’t need to fill the gulf of big mind with mines

[loaln]

To begin, let us respect the opinions of other people and learn to accept someone else's point of view, rather than waving a red flag and shouting: “Whoever is not with us is against us.”

Do not be pharisee! In response, you will be told: "And what are you, like mad dogs, spitting saliva, bark when it comes to perpetuating IV Stalin and others like him?" And you live and prosser .... those created by him, and not the white-blue-red times of the Civil and World War II. So be aware that on a double approach you will only get a double retreat. If not triple.

[bober1982]

Yes, what kind of triple approaches are there - let's go straight to the expense, double, and in order not to be trifled - just triple.

[Ulan]

Someone would be worth it. The same red Tolik.

[Vovan 73]

Hmm, aah. Here I am, of course, a kind and patient person. But lately ....... a plaque to mannerheim, a monument to the wrangel, now they sang about the Kolchak again .... All the same, the Bolsheviks were in vain, during the civilian, first tsarist officers and other lackeys who fought with weapons in their hands against the Red Army, and therefore against the working people, they were released on parole no longer fight. Nothing !!!!! Not finished off during the civil war. Then I.V. Stalin did not clean out the entire White Guard. Now we are reaping the benefits. The Romanovs were frequent to Russia, and the other White Guard hydra began to raise their heads ....... Well, nothing, nothing, if our grandfathers and fathers didn’t clean all the whites at one time, then we probably need to go over their offspring. After all, they are like weeds, you won’t pull everything out at once, some of them sprout .......

[BAI]

The author refers to various articles, I also refer (she is very much on the topic of the author) and will cite a number of excerpts from it (https://regnum.ru/news/society/2205091.html).

1. "Alexander Vasilievich is undoubtedly a controversial figure, but I respect him for the fact that he died for his country, did not emigrate from the country, although, it seems to me, he could have left, leaving everything behind." - from the testimony of Kolchak: "" ... I turned to him [the English envoy to Tokyo Sir Green - IA REGNUM] with a request to inform the British government that I was asking to be admitted to the British army on any terms. ... an urgent telegram was received with a rather vague answer: the British government insists that it is better for me to go to the Far East, and recommends that I go to Beijing at the disposal of our envoy, Prince Kudashev. Then I saw that the issue was resolved. "

2. "He is a war criminal" - other people's crimes are not an excuse for their own: "By the forces of the" police "and the troops of the interventionists, the" white knight "conducted punitive operations in Siberia, during which, without trial or investigation, more than 75 were hanged, shot and burned alive. man."

(hell, loading pictures doesn't work).

3. "We will erect a monument to Hitler, Vlasov, Krasnov ...":
"the leaders of the Czechoslovak corps write to the leadership of the interventionists:

“Under the protection of Czechoslovak bayonets, the local Russian military bodies allow themselves actions that are horrified by the entire civilized world. Burning villages, beating peaceful Russian citizens with hundreds, shooting democrats without trial on the mere suspicion of political unreliability is a common occurrence. ”

One of the commanders of the interventionist forces, American General Graves, echoes this assessment in his memoirs:

“Terrible murders were committed in Eastern Siberia, but they were not committed by the Bolsheviks, as they usually thought. I will not be mistaken if I say that in Eastern Siberia for every person killed by the Bolsheviks, there were 100 people killed by anti-Bolshevik elements ... The peasants did not want to take up arms and sacrifice their lives for the sake of returning these people to power, they were beaten, beaten with whips and killed in cold blood by thousands. "

4. "Everyone can get acquainted on the Internet with materials about his achievements as a researcher and innovator."
Toll did not save the expedition, while he did not say a word about Makarov, Chichagov, Sedov, etc., and all Kolchak, Kolchak, Kolchak as if he were alone in the Arctic. Somehow it turns out very biased.

5. "This is a provocation and an attempt by the" liberals "and the State Department to destabilize the country":

"section" About us "of the site of" White Cause "- the organization that initiated the installation of the Kolchak plaque:

“Bolshevism turned out to be not only a God-fighting doctrine that denied Christ, historical tradition, law and personal dignity, but also became an tempting temptation for our people ... our own country has been consistently and stubbornly destroyed, its culture and past have been violated ... we want to continue the tradition of the White movement, which laid down the beginning of the selfless struggle of Russian society for their homeland, honor and freedom, as the famous magazine Chasovoy wrote about it. The valuable political, ideological, creative and moral experience of Bolshevik Russia should be in demand today. ”

Those. on the eve of the 100th anniversary of the Great October Revolution, the opponents of the "Reds" decided to arrange a revenge, there is an open information war. In war, as you know, all means are good. Therefore, in such conditions it is hardly possible to talk about respecting the opponent’s point of view.

[novel66]

I will add, and I got to the Arctic in a strange way. in general, in his career, the word "suddenly" occurs too often for an honest officer

[bober1982]

A real officer, respected novel66, the word "suddenly" was encountered throughout his entire service, and he himself had an entire military career - one continuous "suddenly."

[novel66]

were you suddenly promoted? or in one fell swoop sent to explore the Arctic? are you admiral

[bober1982]

And suddenly I was promoted, including, I - not an admiral, of course, every cricket should know his sixth.

[Ulan]

Seriously? And my son-in-law at the age of 30 all goes to senior lieutenants, although in the position of major. I went to the command to find out why the production was delayed and received an answer - a hundred pieces on the table and tomorrow you are the captain. Were you also so "suddenly" promoted? Suddenly even cats will not be born, as people say.

[bober1982]

Everything is clear with you, you know about the army from the words of your son-in-law, a professional couch expert, your language is well suspended, you would sit in the political army in the Soviet Army, have seen enough of such talkative people. Let him not be discouraged, tolerate, will be the general who his years, or going to Syria as a volunteer, maybe it will become a Hero of Russia, even if it is posthumous, but it will not detach anyone.

[Ulan]

But you don't need to be rude to a kid, people about whom you know nothing.
By this you only demonstrate your inferiority.
I did not run from the army, unlike some, and completely gave my all in Ukraine and the Far East.
You don’t need to tell whom and where to go so that you are not told where to go.

[bober1982]

Don’t be nervous, because of trifles, ........You too suddenly raised? but talk about rudeness. Why talk about extortion - such stories are worthless, you are not a prosecutor. I also did not run from the army, although this unites us, although probably the only one.

[Ulan]

Well, I'm not stubborn and appreciate when people can find a common language.
I was not promoted "all of a sudden." The story is not worthless, I hope you will not argue that the army is not always and not everything is in order, especially in the days of Serdyukov.
Okay, I’ve been awakened and will be. Peace.

[bober1982]

I agree, the world.

[Altona]

Well, here's another lawyer and protector for the "historical truth". Dear author, if everything that you want comes true, then you personally will have to pay me a pension. For under the label of the return of "historical truth" will be the collapse of the remnants of Russia's social system. But such gentlemen as the author of the article do not know this.

[Altona]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Ahahahah, which is probably why they erect monuments to Kolchak. Hello comrade hello

------------------------------
Romanov, do you have a crown on your ears? Mantle in the shoulders is not narrow? Ermine hasn't eaten a mole yet?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Altona

Romanov, do you have a crown on your ears?

Nope, I’m just enjoying the powerlessness of the communists. Close to the elbow. You won’t bite

[Ulan]

Where is the monarchist party in Russia and how many percent did it get in the last elections ... so all of itself is "strong".

[Orionvit]

Nope, I just enjoy the powerlessness of the Communists.

And where are the communists here? Or to be prudent and have a head on his shoulders, so immediately and a communist?

[den-protector]

All sorts of shortcomings are trying to squeeze into the minds of people the idea that these are the same Russian people who fought for "their Russia" by not washing them like this. This idea is being squeezed into the minds of people by the "new nobles" in order to legalize the blatant social stratification and impoverishment of the population in Russia after the bourgeois revenge in 1991. They fought not for their Russia, but their familiar world of "Schubert's waltzes and the crunch of a French roll", and as Decembrists were far from the people. Therefore, we lost. And real patriots, like most of the people, followed the Reds. What's next?

[runway]

First, let's respect the opinions of others and learn to accept someone else's point of view, rather than waving a red flag and shouting: "He who is not with us is against us."
This alien point of view is an alien ideology of the enemy. Ideological enemies are not persuaded.

[midshipman]

Dear Roman, why are you raising the issue of the rehabilitation of this person? He is guilty of the death of people and let him sleep peacefully in the next world. Mannerheim is a fascist, and this person should remain unknown. The enterprise "MKB" Compass "subordinate to me created the RNSDN" Mars-75 ". This system was equipped with the entire Northern Sea Route. I had to be there several times. I met with scientists and specialists, even on Novaya Zemlya I tasted stew with buckwheat porridge, made in 19010 Nobody knows or remembers about his merits in the development of the North. Remove the board from St. Petersburg and place it at home. So it will be calmer. I have the honor.

[Ulan]

My respect.

[Simpsonian]

And about Sikorsky talked a lot and remembered in those years?

[Orionvit]

And about Sikorsky talked a lot and remembered in those years?

And here is Sikorsky? Who needed specialists, he knew and remembered. Sikorsky, for your information, was purely engaged in his favorite business, was a US citizen, and was not seen in war crimes against the people of Russia. He was noted exclusively only in his narrow field of helicopter engineering, for which he was honored and praised.

[Simpsonian]

Well, he was not a military man, therefore, instead of betraying or fighting, he had the right to simply escape from a communist paradise ...
He also noted in aircraft manufacturing in the United States of France and Russia, only non-specialists could only hear about Tupolev, who didn’t do his first heavy bombers in the world but copied American ones.

[midshipman]

Sikorsky was remembered and respected. In 1982, I, as part of a delegation (there were 4 specialists, officials, scientists. Doctors of Science.) Arrived at the exhibition in Barcelona. We flew by plane IL-86. There are 4 people in the salon. Before the approach, the commander of the ship comes out to us and says: "We are flying over Mont Blanc, see, please." So in Barcelona we were the only Russians. The Spaniards saw us shaking hands and trying to hug. The heavy American helicopter was represented by Sikorsky's son. We were interested in its equipment for a long time, since our heavy helicopter was built according to a different scheme. Sikorsky's son gave us one gold "helicopter" badge each. The stash was very beautiful, then it got lost somewhere. I have the honor.

[prior]

Give all the "red" the title of Hero of the Soviet Union,
and to all "whites" - Hero of Russia and shout loudly - Glory to the heroes!

And peace and prosperity will come immediately.

[bober1982]

It’s necessary to scream like that in the streets, and to let off steam, close houses in the restroom and scream: in red - down with the satraps! and white - bloody gebnya!, but only in the restroom.

[Ulan]

Pity the neighbors.

[Simpsonian]

Maybe on the contrary in Ukraine and around who will think?

[Ulan]

Is anyone able to think in Ukraine? Judging by what they have done with the once-blooming republic, this cannot be said.

[Simpsonian]

and there are many Ukrainians in the government?

[Simpsonian]

I think in Canadian and even more

[bober1982]

I agree, then it remains - hissing or drooling, then it will be good for the neighbors.

[teron]

Kolchak will forever remain the enemy of Russia. And memorial plaques in our country have someone to hang besides kolchach and mannerheim.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: teron

Kolchak will forever remain an enemy of Russia

You are not Russia!

[Vladislav 73]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

You are not Russia!

And who gave you the right to speak on behalf of Russia? That is, if a person does not consider Kolchak a hero, Nikolai the Bloody "great sovereign" and Vlasov fighters against a bloody regime, then he has no place in Russia?

[nikowolf]

Hello. Do you know why Nicholas II was called bloody?
I will answer right away, because the greedy mob crushed each other in pursuit of the idle, during the coronation. Not the people, but the beasts, but they accused the king of this. But for some reason everyone forgot it. We are all guilty of our past, maybe then we will think about the future. And enemies should not be sought in the past but in the present.
My respect.

[Freeman]

nikowolf Yesterday, 17:48 ↑
Hello. Do you know why Nicholas II was called bloody?
I will answer right away, because the greedy mob crushed each other in pursuit of the idle, during the coronation.

And then this "greedy rabble" shot itself on January 9, 1905 on the Senate Square in St. Petersburg.
And after all, what did the "rascals" demand:

Petition of workers and residents of St. Petersburg for submission to Tsar Nicholas II
........................................
II. Measures against national poverty.
........................................
3) The execution of orders of the military and naval departments should be in Russia, and not abroad.

PS Full text "google" yourself

[Simpsonian]

And why did she loose there if it is known that the Tsar at that time was in a country residence? And why did provocateurs-villains start firing from its disordered ranks to protect a specially protected object?

[Vladislav 73]

Quote: nikowolf

Hello. Do you know why Nicholas II was called bloody?

Hello. I answer. Because I remained so popular! Like Alexander I — the Blessed One, like Nicholas I — Palkin, like Alexander II — the Liberator, and Alexander III — the Peacemaker.

Quote: nikowolf

We are all guilty of our past, maybe then we will think about the future.

Sorry, but I do not consider myself guilty, for example, for the fact that the then liberal liberals overthrew your beloved monarch! And I in every way welcome and remember the Great October Revolution, and I will never be ashamed of this, much less repent!

Quote: nikowolf

And enemies should not be sought in the past but in the present.

That's for sure. They don't even need to look for them, they themselves get in sight. With boards to Mannerheim and Kolchak. With the chanting of "the wisest, what a smart Nicholas II". With attempts to rehabilitate Kolchak, Krasnov, Vlasov and other ghouls and traitors. By the way, why leads to the alteration of history, is it not visible? Waffen SS in the Baltics, Bandera marches in Ukraine? Is it really, that you finally understand that it is dangerous to tailor history, you need people to take up the pitchfork again ?! History cannot be turned back!

[Ulan]

Don’t understand at all, just some kind of pathetic chalk ... the eye that makes itself a monarchist is confused under everyone’s feet.

[wildcat3981]

Quote: CONTROL

Quote: wildcat3981

Kolchak the researcher and Kolchak the naval commander deserve very good reviews ... But Kolchak the ruler deserves obscene reviews.
... And Kolchak was not thrown off the red, if that. Summarizing - a person has done both good and extremely bad. Do not forget, all sorts of memorial boards are superfluous.

He easily retrained from a naval researcher to ... whom? hematologist pathologist?
... more corpses! and blood denser ... Provide research material! ...
Something like this ...

And then there was such a time. Of the lieutenants - to the generals, of the countesses - I'm sorry ** tk ...) In vain you wit wit, Kolchak is still not an inflated figure. Another thing - and not an angel)

[CONTROL]

Quote: wildcat3981

And then there was such a time. Of the lieutenants - to the generals, of the countesses - I'm sorry ** tk ...) In vain you wit wit, Kolchak is still not an inflated figure. Another thing - and not an angel)

"... it is easy and sweet to speak the truth in the face of the king!"
... Where would it come from? Oh yes, the Strugatskys, "It's hard to be a god" ... A prophetic thing! and over time acquires more and more volumetric sound!
Such figures as Denikin, Kolchak, Krasnov, Slashchev (who, by the way, successfully and fruitfully worked for the Soviet regime), Ungern and te de - yes, yes and yes! Products of their difficult times! "... from countesses to ...!"
But - this does not justify them! It does not justify Yurovsky, who shot the family of a simple peasant, a citizen of the Russian Empire Nikolai Romanov ...
The point here is not only that you are a baron, countess or former emperor, but in the initial moral and ethical attitudes of the personality (... about the role of the personality in history, huh?)! You can become an executioner of your people - whether red, white; a traitor to the homeland - of the same colors ... you can and a prostitute ... And you can not become these charming personalities! You can take millions of dollars for a patronage in promoting a business project - or you can just give it, this patronage (obligated by post!)! However, these are new times ...
To be or not to be - that is the question! To be or not to be an executioner ... a prostitute ... a murderer ... or a warrior defending his people and his homeland ?!
..That is why in the temples of the priest they serve services both for the "white movement" and for the "heroes of the Red Army" (who closed these temples, by the way - and ruined them ...). Therefore - and those others are dead, killed and suffered for too zealously defended ideas! And they could suffer not for ideas (in many respects false, as time shows ...), but for people, "for their friends ..."
------------
Maybe it's enough to "swing on fists", and try - keeping minor disagreements - to act and live in a COUNTRY and PEOPLE, equipping and improving?
... historical truth and historical truth - they do not exist! does not exist in isolation from the personalities who created it - history!

[captain]

Quote: Orionvit

And Manerheim did not receive iron crosses from Hitler? If the Germans did not take Leningrad, then this is the merit of Manerheim? What nonsense. A very interesting interpretation of history. Finland fought on the side of fascist Germany, this is a fact and this is enough. Everything else is verbiage.

King Mihai then received crosses from Hitler, but from Stalin the Order of Victory, and so what? Why do the Communists not raise this issue? Romanians brought grief no less than the Finns.

[Gardamir]

Romanians brought grief no less than Finns

And what is Mihai's board?

[Nikolaevich I]

There are, it turns out, such "historians" - "nimble shura"!, who have a story, that the tongue, where he turned ... there it happened! And all this is possible for a reasonable price! Show that Kolchak is a goof? Please! and if there is an order for a "good" Kolchak .. pliz! Or here are the words: why should Kolchak be responsible for the crimes and other "sins" of his "subordinates" ?? Something familiar these words seemed to me ...... Exactly! The Nazis at the Nuremberg trials made excuses in the same way!

[Kudrevkn]

I agree with the Author - this Great Man in our time would probably become a national Hero - Caesar Caesarean, and locksmith fitter!

[Ulan]

Of course, in our despicable time it is quite possible. In our time, the Hauptman of the fascist army Shukhevych became a national hero in Ukraine. So do not be surprised.

[pussamussa]

But isn't he a hero of our time? Monuments are opened, films are shot, boards are hung up.
What else is missing? Can he build a kolchak-center? After all, his follower was built for fifteen billion budget rubles by the Yeltsin Center. There will always be money for this, there is no money for the rest, but you stay there.

[pussamussa]

It's not about Kolchak. And in the very so-called white idea. The White Guards are one of the units of Western intervention against Russia. Western owners armed them to the teeth, provided them with everything necessary, generously financed. And they all went together to Russia with fire and a sword. Transnational Western capital has always had the goal of turning Russia into its colony.
The White Guards also expected to receive crumbs from the hosts table. But in case of victory, some of them would be made lackeys, and most of them would have been consumed. Kolchak understood all this, so he was so fierce about the rebellious Russian people. The finale of the interventionists and White Guards was quite natural. Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword. There is no difference between those who went with the Western occupiers in the eighteenth year and in the forty-first. Therefore, in fairness, General Vlasov, along with Kolchak, deserves a monument or a plaque from the grateful west.

[Gardamir]

Above all, respect the opinions of others. And take a different point of view. She has a right to exist.

I agree, but ...

Yes, Alexander Vasilyevich, without a doubt, a controversial figure, however, I respect him for the fact that he died for his country, did not begin to emigrate from the country, although, it seems to me, he could leave, leaving everything behind.

You pretend or really don’t know that Kolchak worked for the British. Suppose, I said, let’s say, Kolchak defeated the Reds and became the supreme ruler of Russia. But they would have been ruled by the British.

that Kolchak is a war criminal, therefore, this should not change. But Tukhachevsky and Beria can be rehabilitated. And let the USSR be 25 years old

What are you all mixed in a bunch? Nobody rehabilitated Tukhachevsky. But what Beria’s fault has not yet been proven.

It is not necessary to whitewash and blacken others just because you were born under the USSR and you were told so at school. History is not divided into black and white, it has a lot of gray moments, and in my opinion there are most of them.

So I agree with you again. Only Kolchak prepared anti-people power for the country, it’s enough for me that now there is anti-people power in the country, in order to justify Kolchak as well.

[Free wind]

what are you fighting for? It is necessary to destroy the Bolsheviks. And then what? It is necessary to restore the Russian Empire, I will be emperor. I will restore serfdom; for Russians this is a natural state. Wrangel. Here is such a white movement

[Blue fox]

Quote: Mahmut

4 июня 1941 советские самолёты бомбили финские аэродромы. Да пофигу. С территории Финляндии не было ни одного выстрела по блокадному Ленинграду. Да пофигу. Немецкие войска Маннергейм не пустил на советско-финскую границу, что не позволило захватить Ленинград. Да пофигу.

-Советские самолёты бомбили финские аэродромы после того как немцы 22 и 23 июня совершали с них боевые вылеты, в том числе с минированием вод Кронштадтской ВМБ.
- Выстрелов по самому Ленинграду не было из-за отсутствия соответствующей артиллерии, однако остров Котлин с Кронштадтом на нём финны не брезговали обстреливать, как и Сестрорецк.
- Почитайте про 163-ю пехотную дивизию вермахта, части которой пройдя от советско-финской границы пытались из района реки Свирь в Ленинградской области (территория Нижнесвирского заповедника), форсировав её соединиться с немецкими частями в Тихвине, если бы не советские войска и 3-я бригада морской пехоты, а случись это, никакой бы Дороги жизни не было!!!!!
-

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Blue Fox

-Советские самолёты бомбили финские аэродромы после того как немцы 22 и 23 июня совершали с них боевые вылеты, в том числе с минированием вод Кронштадтской ВМБ.

Не совсем так. Минными постановками занималась группа, вылетавшая из Восточной Пруссии и производившая в Финляндии только дозаправку на обратном пути. Именно эти самолёты и были приняты нашей разведкой за множество немецких бомбардировщиков на финских аэродромах.
Но кроме этих "транзитников" на территории Финляндии постоянно базировались немецкие разведчики и бомбардировщики. Конкретно по бомберам - это 1./KGr.806, которая на 22.06.41 базировалась на Мальми и работала с финских аэродромов по Ханко, Таллину и Кронштадту.
Кроме того, из Финляндии работала 3./KGr.806 - в ночь на 24 июня над Ленинградом был сбит её Ju-88, причём на захваченной карте был обозначен маршрут из Финляндии.

[andrewkor]

А мне Хабенский понравился в роли Колчака,сходство прям один в один,да и фильм неплохой .

[Ulan]

Фильм откровенно слабый, исторически совсем не достоверный и прочее. Броненосец "Слава" назван крейсером, Колчак им никогда не командовал, ни один ид...от не заставит команду боевого корабля, когда уже идет бой собираться на молебен. Это делают ДО боя.
В эпизоде боя с немецким броненосным крейсером, Колчак находится на палубе миноносца времен русско-японской войны, хотя в реальном бою это был эсминец "Новик".
Колчак едет в Севастополь на поезде который ведет паровоз серии "Л". Эти паровозы начали производить только после Великой Отечественной.
Не догадались даже с Щербинского кольца взять паровоз серии "Э".
И таких ляпов в фильме немерянно.
А потом "понравился Хабенский" к исторической достоверности отношения не имеет.

[Sasha_Sar]

За изгаженную доску обидно, не за служил адмирал Колчак такой памяти от своих потомков. Мне жаль тех придурков которые это сделали. Это Ваньки не помнящие родства. Это идеологические потомки тех кто расстреливал десятками тысяч офицеров в Крыму и Новороссийске, топил в баржах на Волге. Красный террор выиграл гражданскую войну потому, что он был более жесток, чем белый. Подонки были и у белых ни кто не спорит, но не в таком количестве. Очень хочется спросить у тех кто здесь за красных, а как бы вы поступили на месте белых офицеров когда вам с молоком матери и героическом примере ваших предков прививали любовь к Родине, царь был одним из символов этой веры. В бой шли со словами: "За веру, Царя и Отечество". Когда у тебя в роду десятки родичей лежат от Парижа до Маньчжурии. И тут приходит к Вам "хам" в кожанке и с маузером на бедре и заявляет, что все это ни чего не стоит. Ваше слово Господа - Товарищи. И заметьте, офицеры ни когда особо богатыми не были, жили на государево жалование да со своего имения.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Sasha_Sar

Это идеологические потомки тех кто расстреливал десятками тысяч офицеров в Крыму и Новороссийске, топил в баржах на Волге.

Кхм... насчёт барж - не всё так однозначно. В ходе Ижевско-Воткинского восстания на борту "баржи смерти" находились как раз большевики и сочувствующие им. И отбивать эту баржу пришлось Раскольникову.

Quote: Sasha_Sar

Очень хочется спросить у тех кто здесь за красных, а как бы вы поступили на месте белых офицеров когда вам с молоком матери и героическом примере ваших предков прививали любовь к Родине, царь был одним из символов этой веры. В бой шли со словами: "За веру, Царя и Отечество". Когда у тебя в роду десятки родичей лежат от Парижа до Маньчжурии. И тут приходит к Вам "хам" в кожанке и с маузером на бедре и заявляет, что все это ни чего не стоит.

А при чём тут "царь был одним из символов этой веры"And""хам" в кожанке и с маузером на бедре"? Или Вы верите большевистской пропаганде о роли большевиков в свержении монархии?
К офицерам царской армии с заявлениями о том, что их вера больше ничего не стоит, приходил вовсе не "хам" в кожанке и с маузером на бедре. К ним приезжали благообразные господа - депутаты, адвокаты и прочая... элита - и вот они как раз и несли с высоких трибун, что царь довёл страну до ручки и не стоит верить в отжившую своё монархию.

[Ulan]

Еще как заслужил господин Колчак, черной краски. Хотя бы тем что предал императора, которому вы тут дифирамбы поете.

[Orionvit]

Это Ваньки не помнящие родства

Всё что вы написали, это передёргивание и фактов и истории. Но насчёт родства, тут уж извините. Колчак мне не родственник, не друг и не брат. Его родственники, это массонские "братья", которые расшатывали устои империи и свергали царя, прикрываясь "любовью" к отечеству. На них и им подобных в первую очередь лежит ответственность за те неисчислимы беды, которые пережили народы России. И как бы не плевались здесь некоторые "патриоты", только большевики исправили ситуацию, хоть и большой кровью. Но не они первые это затеяли.

[Altona]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Nope, I’m just enjoying the powerlessness of the communists. Close to the elbow. You won’t bite

--------------------------------
Наслаждайся, контра недобитая...

[Caretaker]

Quote: Aleksander

... Большевики с треском ПРОИГРАЛИ единственные тайные и всеобщие выборы в России тех лет -в Учредительное Собрание..
...
Да даже тех, кто проголосовал за болшевиков, они тоже -обманули, потому что перед выборами Учредительное Собрание они врали, что они......ЗА Учредительное Собрание, а их т.н. "совнарком" назывался ВРЕМЕННЫМ ПРАВИТЕЛЬСТВОМ ДО Учр. Собрания.
...
Then, ONCE! and -dispersed what they promised.
...
Александр Васильевич Колчак, Антон Иванович Деникин настоящие Герои России, отстаивавший поруганное узурпаторами право народа на свободное выражение своей воли.
...

Колчак поступил проще. Сначала разогнал, а потом расстрелял членов Учредительного собрания (поищите "Комуч", "Директория").

[Ulan]

Наверное с точки зрения посевдомонархистов, Колчаку можно.

[zenion]

Мог бы эмигрировать - но не успел! Золотой эшелон задержал его. И наверное души невинно убиенных.

[Monarchist]

Золотые слова:"не надо отделять одних и очернятъ других"

[Aleksander]

Quote: SHVEDsky_stol

The legal power of Russia in the person of Denikin (Kolchak transferred the powers to him) did not recognize him as a criminal, and the commun-e. Of technical sciences, not recognized by anyone (except for the German invaders). "government" was only one of several that were on the territory of Russia during the Gr. war.

Well, in one book (I won’t say the name, I don’t remember) Denikin, in correspondence with Kolchak, indicated that he agreed to obey him as the Supreme, but he did not receive a response, and coordination did not go, although he himself pointed to 18- 19 year, for this interference was not at all.

ВСЕ признали Колчака Верховным правителем, в т ч Деникин и Юденич с Миллером.

[Ulan]

А кто эти ВСЕ? Это меньшинство, на содержании Антанты и именно поэтому оно проиграло.
Народ забыли спросить признал он или нет.
Вот он взял и не признал.
Так что признание Деникина, Юденича и всяких Миллеров не стоило и гроша, как и незаконно присвоенный Колчаком титул - Верховного правителя России.

[Caretaker]

Quote: Alexey RA

Quote: Blue Fox

-Советские самолёты бомбили финские аэродромы после того как немцы 22 и 23 июня совершали с них боевые вылеты, в том числе с минированием вод Кронштадтской ВМБ.

Не совсем так. Минными постановками занималась группа, вылетавшая из Восточной Пруссии и производившая в Финляндии только дозаправку на обратном пути. Именно эти самолёты и были приняты нашей разведкой за множество немецких бомбардировщиков на финских аэродромах.
Но кроме этих "транзитников" на территории Финляндии постоянно базировались немецкие разведчики и бомбардировщики. Конкретно по бомберам - это 1./KGr.806, которая на 22.06.41 базировалась на Мальми и работала с финских аэродромов по Ханко, Таллину и Кронштадту.
Кроме того, из Финляндии работала 3./KGr.806 - в ночь на 24 июня над Ленинградом был сбит её Ju-88, причём на захваченной карте был обозначен маршрут из Финляндии.

И ещё немного фактов

...Накануне дня Барбароссы германские минные заградителя вышли вечером из финских шхер и ночью без каких-либо осложнений поставили поперек Финского залива два мощных минных заграждения: от Порккала - "Корбету" (400 мин и 700 буев против тральщи-

ков), и от Корппо - "Аполду" (590 мин и 700 буев). Третью операцию по минированию заливов эстонских архипелагов в это же время провели вышедшие из Корппо немецкие торпедные катера. При благожелательной поддержке финнов стремительная операция немцев удалась сверх всяких ожиданий.

В течение следующих трех дней до вступления Финляндии в войну немецкие торпедные катера провели атаки на русские морские коммуникации, связывавшие их с Ханко. И хотя русские на основании типов катеров могли заключить о их принадлежности немцам, тем не менее короткий радиус действия катеров свидетельствовал о том, что они должны были базироваться в шхерах Финляндии. Финны, несмотря на то, что Финляндия еще не вступила в войну, взяли в плен нескольких моряков с потопленного немцами корабля.

Значительно существенней тот факт, что финские большие подводные лодки "Весихииси", "Ветехинен" и "Ики-Турсо" предприняли 22 июня 1941 г., т. е. затри дня до вступления Финляндии в войну, рейд по минированию залива Кунда близ эстонского побережья, который они совершили со своей базы в шхерах Порвоо. Две субмарины повторили операцию 23-24 июня в районе Суурсаари. Таким образом, Финляндия - в духе достигнутых в Киле договоренностей и без каких-либо специальных требований со стороны Германии - еще до решения парламента на практике начала военные действия...
http://maxpark.com/user/2842573361/content/541216

Бомбардировка Мурманской железной дороги тоже была проведена до официального объявления войны.

[cedar]

Quote: Altona

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Nope, I’m just enjoying the powerlessness of the communists. Close to the elbow. You won’t bite

--------------------------------
Наслаждайся, контра недобитая...

I would like to draw your attention, dear ones, to the fact that commemorative plaques with eminent historical figures surfaced just before the holiday of "National Unity". Established by Putin is not at all so that we and Russia would be divided into atoms. Someone, as always, in time conducts his eternal policy "Divide, play and rule ..." And as always, someone is led to her death ...
See the root.

П.С. А это вам на закуску... А-то шибко у вас всё просто.., а простота, как известно -"Хуже воровства".



http://iknigi.net/avtor-olga-greyg/77370-prizrak-
okeana-ili-admiral-kolchak-na-sluzhbe-u-stalin-o
lga-greyg.html

[Bloodsucker]

http://politobzor.net/show-112880-kak-svyazany-po
klonskaya-rossiyskiy-maydan-i-eres-

Quote: cedar

А это вам на закуску... А-то шибко у вас всё просто.., а простота, как известно -"Хуже воровства".

Вашему оппоненту вдогонку.

[Ulan]

Caretaker,
О чем? Ну нельзя же быть таким неграмотным, они провели референдум о независимости и не более того. Вопрос о присоединении к России в бюллетенях не стоял, а отличие от Крыма. Не позорьтесь такими безграмотными заявлениями.

[Blue fox]

Quote: Alexey RA

Not certainly in that way

Благодарю вас. Я не спец в авиации и её истории настолько, но о дислокации немецких самолётов на финских аэродромах перед началом ВОВ знаю. Обычно такие вопросы даю на откуп своим коллегам по изучению военной истории с waralbum.ru :))

[Altona]

Снова о красных и белых.
===
Дела - лучшие факты и доказательства.
===
Несмотря на гражданскую войну, которую развязали именно белые, предательское уничтожение белыми, вместе с интервентами, собственного народа и страны, красные смогли построить огромную, народную страну.
- За 20 лет они увеличили количество грамотных, образованных людей в десятки раз,
- создали сотни тысяч высокообразованных профессионалов,
- построили десятки тысяч заводов и
- произвели такую индустриализацию, в которую до сих пор не в состоянии поверить враги.
Именно благодаря этим и другим великим делам красных страна выжила во время Второй Мировой, народ не был порабощен и уничтожен полностью.
===
Ведь те же страны, которые были друзьями-соратниками белых, были друзьями и соратниками Гитлера и у них цели совсем не изменились - расправиться с Россией и с народами, живущими в России.
===
Девяностые же годы были годами реванша белых.
И что они сделали за последние 25 лет, получив в руки СОВСЕМ другую страну, процветающую, мощную, с развитой промышленностью и самым современным оружием, с образованным и трудолюбивым народом?
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Они тоже доказали своими делами - кто они, ради чего боролись и к чему стремились.
- Расчленили громадную империю, продали врагам территории примерно 2 раза больше, чем нынешний ЕС,
- уничтожили десятки тысяч заводов, если не сотни тысяч,
- развалили и почти уничтожили армию, военную промышленность,
- вытеснили, вышвырнули из страны весь интеллектуальный потенциал, отправляя умирающих с голоду ученых на копеечное служение врагам,
- уничтожили образование, понизив качество в разы, до неузнаваемости,
- распространили и стандартизировали аморальность и абсолютную безнравственность,
- заставили почти 10 миллионов сограждан стать наркоманами,
- главными героями и властителями страны сделали воров, бандитов,
- пытались и дальше продолжать расчленение страны и продажу территорий ...
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You can enumerate for a long time.
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У кого сохранились хоть какие-то остатки критического мышления, несмотря на террор пиарщиков, тот поймет, что
белые - это и есть интервенты!!!
Их передний фланг. Ничего более.
И никаких иных целей, кроме как передать страну в руки ее врагам у них нет и не может быть.

[cedar]

Quote: Altona

У кого сохранились хоть какие-то остатки критического мышления, несмотря на террор пиарщиков, тот поймет, что
белые - это и есть интервенты!!!
Их передний фланг. Ничего более.
И никаких иных целей, кроме как передать страну в руки ее врагам у них нет и не может быть.

Красные и белые шары нам подкидывают серые.., что бы мы самозабвенно раскатывая их, плющили свои и чужие мозги и в упор не видели чёрных дел серых крыс.
See the root.

[Ulan]

Aleksander,
И что убрались? Интересно а кто вместе с Германией дербанил русскую землю во время революции?

[Tula gingerbread]

Diana Ilyina,
Какая разница, белый, черный, все равно "кобель".

[Tula gingerbread]

Ulan,
Ему можно.Обычный сплетник на уровне базарного трепа.

[Max_Bauder]

Listen to this.