Military Review

The language situation in Ukraine. Linguistic discrimination as a tool of nationalist politics

119
For modern Ukraine, the language issue is fundamental. It was he who was once raised on the shield of Ukrainian nationalists. On Euromaidan, the language issue was raised more than once, and Ukrainian nationalists stubbornly argued that there can be only one state language in the country, even if at least half of its inhabitants are native speakers of another language. Examples of such countries as Canada or Belgium were not taken into account - they say, if Ukraine is an independent state, then only the Ukrainian language can be the state language. For some reason, the Belgian authorities are not frightened by the fact that France is nearby, which, they say, should dream of absorbing French-speaking territories inhabited by the Valloons. But the Ukrainian nationalists constantly reminded that the neighborhood with Russia does not allow recognizing Russian as the second state language, even if at that time it remained the most common language of the south-eastern regions of the country.


Separation from the Russian language is the basis of the Ukrainian national identity itself. When the territories of Western Ukraine were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the authorities set one of the main tasks of their national policy in Galicia to eradicate Russia's cultural influence. This could be achieved, among other things, by means of any belittling and discrimination of the Russian language. Not without the support of the Austro-Hungarian authorities, by the beginning of the twentieth century, a rather influential Ukrainian nationalist movement emerged, which in every way asserted the differences between Ukrainians from Russians, the Ukrainian language from Russian.

The language situation in Ukraine. Linguistic discrimination as a tool of nationalist politics


The policy of the Soviet government to support the national languages ​​of the peoples of the Soviet Union made a huge contribution to the development of the Ukrainian language. The Ukrainian language received official status in the Ukrainian SSR, they began to teach it in educational institutions, to maintain documentation there. However, by the end of the 1980s, when the internal political situation worsened in the Soviet Union, nationalist forces intensified in Ukraine, which, of course, put the language issue on the agenda. When in the 1991 year, Ukraine became a sovereign state, the Ukrainian language, respectively, received the status of the state language. But immediately the question was raised about the status of the Russian language in Ukraine. Moreover, Crimea remained the Russian-speaking regions, almost all the southern and eastern regions of the country, and a significant part of the population of Central Ukraine, as well as the Transcarpathian region of Ukraine, spoke in Russian. But, despite the fact that more than half of the inhabitants of Ukraine in everyday communication use the Russian language, and the Ukrainian language is far from perfect, the position of the Ukrainian leadership throughout the 25 years of independence of the country remained unchanged - the presidents changed, the political courses of the country were transformed the possibility of recognizing Russian as the state language, along with Ukrainian, remained unchanged.

When a sociological survey was conducted in 2003 in Ukraine on whether or not to provide Russian with the status of a second state language of the country, 70% of Russian-speaking Russian residents of Ukraine, 56% of Russian-speaking Ukrainians of Ukraine and 18% of Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians favored this status. Thus, the majority of Ukrainians were then inclined to the need to give Russian the status of a second state language. However, neither Leonid Kuchma, nor Viktor Yushchenko, nor Viktor Yanukovych made this step. The interests of the Russian-speaking population, constituting not less than half of the inhabitants of Ukraine, were subordinated to the political ambitions of the nationalist forces, supported and financed by the West.

When Viktor Yushchenko ran for President of Ukraine in 2004, rumors spread in the country that if he won, he would sign the decree “On the protection of citizens' rights to use the Russian language and languages ​​of other nationalities of Ukraine”. The decree provided for the obligation of Ukrainian officials to communicate with the citizens of the country in their native language, which presupposed free knowledge of the Russian language, since Russian is the native language for half of the country's population, not only for ethnic Russians, but also for Ukrainians and representatives of other peoples of the country . But when Yushchenko was elected president, he, of course, did not sign any such decree and, moreover, told reporters that he had never heard of him. It is obvious that the information on the signing of the decree was launched to ensure the votes of the Russian-speaking population of the country and representatives of national minorities.



Meanwhile, the Russian language, according to Ukrainian legislation, as early as 1989 year, when he was Ukrainian SSR as part of the Soviet Union, was proclaimed the language of interethnic communication. This provision acted after the independence of Ukraine, but in fact was not respected. Already in 1992, the massive displacement of the Russian language from all spheres of public life began, first of all from official business, then from education and the media.

As early as 1999, the European Charter for Regional Languages ​​was ratified by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, but the Law on the ratification of the Charter entered into force only from 1 in January of 2006. Its meaning was reduced to the recognition of the Russian language as regional and its equalization with other regional languages ​​of the country, which include Bulgarian, Hungarian, Gagauz, Romanian, German and a number of other languages. Is there a need to explain the real differences between the role and place of the Russian language in the life of Ukrainian society, from, say, the German or Romanian languages? After all, even the same Ukrainian Romanians or Germans use the Russian language as the language of interethnic communication. This, incidentally, is evidenced by the fact that the Transcarpathian region of Ukraine has always been distinguished by a high level of the spread of the Russian language, unlike other Western Ukrainian regions.



The first post-Soviet decade of Ukraine’s de-Russification, although gradually gaining momentum, was not sharp and swift. The situation changed after President Yushchenko came to power. Numerous decrees were issued restricting the use of the Russian language in Ukraine. The institute of education underwent a major blow. Understanding perfectly well that it is in schools, secondary and higher professional educational institutions that the upbringing of the younger generations takes place, the Ukrainian leadership has set as its goal to oust the Russian language from the educational space and “Ukrainize” the younger generations of citizens of the country, including Russians by birth. It should be recalled here that at the end of the 1980s, the “backbone” of the Ukrainian nationalists was made up of Ukrainian-speaking humanities scholars - teachers and teachers of the Ukrainian language and literature, historians of Ukraine. First, the approval of the Ukrainian language was a profession for them, and then turned into a political ideology. Although an incomparably greater amount of fiction, journalistic, scientific literature was published in Russian, extensive scientific research is being conducted, the Ukrainian leadership was at the least concerned about the real increase in the level of knowledge of Ukrainian youth. The task was set simple - to educate fanatical supporters of Ukrainian independence, rather than competent specialists. It was for this that funds were allocated both from the state budget of the country and from numerous foreign funds operating under the auspices of the United States, Poland and a number of other states.

But if in the west of Ukraine, the Ukrainian language is still really the language of ubiquitous communication, then in the south-east of Ukraine we use the Russian language most. It is spoken in most families, it really is a means of communication of citizens, regardless of their nationality. However, in the middle of the 2000-s, the question was raised about the need for a significant reduction in schools with Russian language instruction. And it was about the south-eastern regions of Ukraine - the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk regions. By the second half of the 2000-s, the number of Russian-language schools, even in the east and south of the country, declined many times. The training of subject teachers and primary school teachers for Russian schools in the pedagogical universities of Ukraine ceased to be carried out, the possibility of receiving higher and secondary professional education in Russian, and the protection of academic degrees in Russian was eliminated. Despite the fact that representatives of the Russian population of Ukraine have repeatedly tried to draw the attention of the world community to real violations of the rights of Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine, nobody listened to their arguments. It is worth noting that at that time Russia took a rather strange position, preferring not to quarrel with Kiev at the cost of abandoning the real protection of the rights and interests of Russian and Russian-speaking people living in Ukraine.

The question of language in Ukraine has become a purely political one. To recognize the Russian language as the second state language, in the opinion of Ukrainian nationalists, means in effect to abandon the Ukrainian language. Indeed, in the absence of legislatively ensured the dominance of the Ukrainian language over Russian, the majority of the Ukrainian population would be transferred to the Russian language even in official documentation. After all, the Russian language is still the language of interethnic communication, which is understood in all the republics of the former Soviet Union. Do not compare and the amount of literature published in Russian and Ukrainian languages. Naturally, the political influence of Russia would also increase, and cultural ties between the two countries would be strengthened. But Ukrainian nationalists did not need this, especially since such strengthening of the position of the Russian language is not included in the plans of the United States and the European Union. European and American human rights defenders like to speculate about the violation of the rights of national minorities to use their languages ​​in “undesirable” countries, for example in the same Russia, but immediately fall silent when it comes to discrimination of the Russian and Russian-speaking population in the post-Soviet space, especially in the Baltic States, Moldova or in Ukraine.

The position of the Russian language in Ukraine has deteriorated further after Euromaidan and the coming to power of nationalist forces. Nevertheless, as shown by the results of sociological research, even now the number of Ukrainian citizens who are in favor of giving the Russian language the status of the second state language of the country remains very significant. Thus, the Kiev International Institute of Sociology in 2015 published the data of its research, according to which 33% of the polled citizens of Ukraine spoke in favor of giving the Russian language the status of the state language. Although 48%, according to this study, would have voted against a possible referendum, and 33%, that is, a third of the country's population, is a lot. Moreover, it must be borne in mind that in the language issue the principle of majority of votes is not always objective - after all, ethnic minorities are in fact minorities that have a smaller number than the titular nationality.

The Institute of Sociology of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine in 2006 conducted a study aimed at finding out the true native language of the inhabitants of the country. The question was asked in which language it is easier to fill in the questionnaire. Filling out the questionnaire in Russian turned out to be easier for 99% of respondents in the Luhansk region, 96,8% in the Donetsk region, 95,6% in the Crimea (in the 2006 Crimea, we recall, was also part of Ukraine), 87,4% in the Kharkiv region, 84,6% - in the Odessa region, 79,7% - in the Dnipropetrovsk region. These figures are impressive, although the study, we recall, was conducted ten years ago. But, despite such a high indicator of the population with a native Russian language, the Ukrainian authorities were not going to meet Russian-speaking citizens and recognize the state status of the Russian language.

The language issue was one of the main reasons for the mass protests in the Donbass in the spring of 2014, which then turned into one of the most tragic pages in stories of the former Soviet Union - the bloody armed conflict of the Kiev regime and the people's republics of New Russia. For Ukrainian nationalists and pro-Western liberals who formed a spike reinforced by American and European financial influences, the reluctance to make concessions in the language issue turned out to be stronger than the desire to preserve the political unity of the country and even preserve peace and tranquility. The militia of New Russia fought, including for the right of the inhabitants of the region to speak their native Russian language. The residents of the Crimea, who chose to reunite with Russia, have decided for themselves the language question for themselves. In April, 2014 adopted the Constitution of the Republic of Crimea as part of the Russian Federation, according to which the state languages ​​of the republic were proclaimed Russian, Ukrainian, and the Crimean Tatar language - the three most common languages ​​of the region.

Unlike Ukraine, Russia has taken into account the interests of the multinational population of the Crimea, among which there are speakers not only of the Russian language, but also of the Ukrainian and Crimean Tatar languages. These languages ​​have become the state in the republic. Thus, twenty-three years of language discrimination against the Russian-speaking population of Crimea was put to an end, but Russia did not take away the status of the state language from the Ukrainian language, and also protected the rights of the Crimean Tatars living on the peninsula. Their language also received the status of the state.

In modern Ukraine, the language issue remains extremely acute and, if the policy of official Kiev does not change, it will often cause serious contradictions and conflicts in this country. And it is not only about the Russian language and Russian-speaking regions. In the same Transcarpathian region there are compact areas of residence of the Hungarian population, where the native language of the majority of residents is Hungarian (Magyar) language. The policy of language discrimination, pushed by the Kiev authorities, causes rejection of the national minorities of Ukraine. For example, the official Budapest more than once stood up to defend the rights of Transcarpathian Hungarians. In fact, the solution of the language problem is one of the main ways to normalize the political situation in Ukraine, another thing is that the current Kiev leadership and its overseas and European patrons do not need it.
Author:
Photos used:
http://ttolk.ru/, dic.academic.ru, http://ruspravda.info/
119 comments
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  1. Jarilo
    Jarilo 13 September 2016 15: 15
    +27
    There, the Ukrainian language is taught on TV, each time inventing new words in return for those they speak. What is the Ukrainian language in general? This Selyukov language is Russian-distorted. We in the villages also spoke in every way, with different intonations, before the advent of the TV. When I came from the village as a child, I was looked upon as wild, because I spoke a little differently.
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 15: 21
      +7
      Your comment is Selyukovsky
      1. Jarilo
        Jarilo 13 September 2016 15: 47
        +6
        Justify the vile skeptic.
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 15: 53
          +5
          And what else can be called the comment of a person who absolutely does not understand what he is commenting on, but at the same time makes a judgment that potentially enhances ethnic hatred?
          Well, excuse me, I can’t pass by this silently, I was brought up in the spirit of internationalism, you see.
          1. Jarilo
            Jarilo 13 September 2016 15: 58
            +9
            I'm afraid to offend again, but this time not me, but Wikipedia (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Language):

            Like all East Slavic languages, Ukrainian was formed on the basis of Old Russian dialects. In the history of the literary language, there are two main periods: the Old Ukrainian language (XIV - the middle of the XVIII century) and modern Ukrainian language (from the end of the XVIII century). The founder of the literary language is considered I.P. Kotlyarevsky, in the formation of the norms of the literary language, a significant role was played by the work of T. G. Shevchenko [4] [12]. The basis of writing is Cyrillic (Ukrainian alphabet).
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 16: 02
              +2
              Since you decided to look at Wikipedia, although this is not a recommended resource, read there what the Old Russian language is laughing
              Or is the Old Russian language identical to Russian for you? So I will disappoint you - no.
              1. Jarilo
                Jarilo 13 September 2016 16: 11
                +11
                What do you want to prove to me? What Ukrainians is a different nation, not Russian? There is one root. Look at the last name. The fact that the endings are different, so they are different in Russia: -in, -ov, etc. In Odnoklassniki I have half of my friends with surnames ending in -co.
                By the way, Selyukovsky, this is a warped Russian word for rural.
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 16: 17
                  +1
                  Why is this opus about surnames? About friends on social networks? Does he somehow clarify the situation with the language?
                  And what about the root? What to fumble in small details, dive right up to Adam and Eve laughing
                  I only want to tell you that if you don’t understand something, or don’t understand something, then it’s better not to poke at strangers, but go in for self-education.
                  1. Jarilo
                    Jarilo 13 September 2016 16: 31
                    +8
                    So I ask, justify. So far, except for excuses and arrivals, I have not seen anything from you.
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 16: 45
                      0
                      You asked to justify why I called the comment Selyukovsky. I answered you. No more requests were noticed, so it would be nice to first formulate this very subject of substantiation.
                    2. just exp
                      just exp 14 September 2016 02: 27
                      +2
                      you will not prove anything to him, this is an American bot, the main thing for him is to catch on to something and continue to carry "democracy" and its "ideas" on the Internet.
                      but the truth, but did she once interested in amers?
              2. Jarilo
                Jarilo 13 September 2016 16: 42
                +3
                Foul skeptic
                Or is the Old Russian language identical to Russian for you? So I will disappoint you - no.

                You prove to me that I am not Russian.
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 16: 46
                  0
                  I don’t know you, so how do I know about your nationality.

                  I asked a question - is there no difference for you in Old Russian and Russian? - and waiting for a direct answer
                  1. Jarilo
                    Jarilo 13 September 2016 18: 13
                    +3
                    I will answer in your spirit: there is a difference. Now think.
          2. Retvizan
            Retvizan 13 September 2016 17: 31
            +5
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            was brought up in the spirit of internationalism, you see.

            I will support the position of internationalism.
            I’ll also add that the stack position as
            Quote: Jarilo
            This is Selyukovsky - Russian-warped
            You can make many enemies instead of friends.
            For me, Russian is my native language. But I hate it when they run into Ukrainian. The normal language (in the Poltava version) is somehow even closer to Slavic roots. As soon as they come across the language like that, a "Ukrainian vein" of protest awakens inside. Although I don't use Ukrainian, I know and can calmly perceive and communicate. But I even think in Russian.
            1. Genals
              Genals 13 September 2016 18: 03
              +7
              Well, I don’t know when in the technical specifications for the APU helicopter they write in Hochlyad’s crew three SPECIALS, I ... and I perceive them. What is it about ... internationalism?
            2. weksha50
              weksha50 13 September 2016 19: 51
              +5
              Retvizan
              "Although I don't use Ukrainian, I know it and I can calmly perceive and communicate. But I even think in Russian.
              "...

              Guys, that's what the hell we argue about and we get to some sort of comment ...
              But if you think so, in a rustic way: Russian-Ukrainian-Belarusian languages ​​... Any of us practically understands each other ... Does this not mean the common roots of languages?
              In the same Western Ukraine, there was and is not the Ukrainian language, but a mixture of Ukrainian, Magyar and Polish ... Residents from Central and South-Eastern Ukraine found it difficult to communicate with them ...
              Yes, and Yarilo is somewhat right: in Russia, we also have dialects and dialects - unmeasured, there are features, however - everyone understands each other ...

              Well, so let's understand each other, and not to escalate the situation once again ...
              She and so on keeps us apart, and the enemies of the Slavs need only this ...
            3. Corporal Valera
              Corporal Valera 14 September 2016 01: 14
              +3
              Quote: Retvizan
              As soon as the language is run over, the "Ukrainian vein" of protest awakens inside.

              And the "Ukrainian vein of protest" did not wake up when, for 25 years, special "Ukrainian words" were invented that 70-year-old Ukrainians had never heard of? Somehow you're protesting in the wrong place
          3. BMP-2
            BMP-2 13 September 2016 19: 41
            +2
            A-a-abalde-e-eat! That is, your comment, The vile skeptic, apparently reduces ethnic hatred? laughing
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 14 September 2016 10: 36
              0
              Show me in which comment I negatively speak about any nationality. I beg you.
              1. BMP-2
                BMP-2 14 September 2016 12: 55
                0
                Well, yes, of course: "Selyuk" is not a nation. lol And your comment is just a standard of education! wassat Well, sorry .. request
          4. just exp
            just exp 14 September 2016 02: 25
            +4
            and Europeans are brought up in the spirit of tolerance, hence they have blacks and parades of 3.14 daras.
            but in essence of the conversation, the citizen above spoke absolutely right, MOV is an ARTIFICIAL language created by the Austrians and still being developed by the Americans. from here they have a bunch of new words about which the native Ukrainians had not heard about 10 years ago. and they appeared after the Americans came from the states and taught the Ukrainian language to Ukrainian teachers in Ukraine at a conference on the Ukrop language, damn it, Americans teach the Ukrainian language to Ukrainian teachers in Ukraine, and damn me, here someone eats to comb that you need to be tolerant and respect the American language creation, which destroys my native Russian language, which was previously spoken by the Ukrainian population and to which this same Russian language was native.
    2. BARKAS
      BARKAS 13 September 2016 16: 00
      +4
      Ukrainian is taught on TV,

      Like our Russian 20 years ago, I hardly understood the inhabitants of the Kuban farms, but now even their southern dialect has almost disappeared.
    3. uskrabut
      uskrabut 13 September 2016 16: 18
      +7
      In the Voronezh region, for example, the population is roughly divided into three "supposedly nationalities":
      1.maskali saying "vyadro", "anadys"
      2. pseudo-crests speaking Surzhik.
      3. ordinary Russians, only wackers
    4. juneart
      juneart 13 September 2016 18: 59
      +5
      My friend once called mov - a caricatured Russian ...)
  2. One of you
    One of you 13 September 2016 15: 31
    +5
    Quotations "... In fact, the solution of the language problem is one of the main ways to normalize the political situation in Ukraine, it is another matter that the current Kiev leadership and its overseas and European patrons do not need it ..."
    ------------------------------------------

    As for the history of creation from rural surzhik, with the borrowing of Polish-German words and its transformation into the so-called Ukrainian, then here I agree with the Author.
    However, the author’s last phrase about the normalization of the political situation is fundamentally wrong, both with the current Kiev junta and with the moderate lover of Bandera Yushchenko, since in this case one has to admit that the territory of Ukraine as Russia is part of the Russian world, that Svidomo apologists of ancient ukrov will not be able to survive at all .
    The annoying (just annoying) imposition of surzhik as "the only and unique language for the citizens of Ukraine" began even under Kravchuk, continued under Kuchma, and then went along the knurled one, therefore, until this idea prevails on the former territory of the Ukrainian SSR in this or that form, in the presence of a part of citizens who want to speak Russian, there will be no normalization.
    If this idea is preserved, normalization can occur only in one case - when the native speakers of the Russian language, in principle, will not remain in this territory.
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 13 September 2016 17: 36
      +2
      Quote: One of You
      the territory of Ukraine as Russia is part of the Russian world

      the trouble is that the Russian world is now associated with the Donbass.
      The adherents of the Maidan in time realized that they removed Farion and Tyagnibok (having canceled their creation) and proclaimed the friendship of Russian-speaking and Ukrainian-speaking on the Maidan. Although the country is still not particularly supported. Nobody especially loved nationalists before the Crimea.
      1. BMP-2
        BMP-2 13 September 2016 19: 48
        +2
        Well, I don’t know ... As for me, nationalists aren’t very fond of even now ... request They are simply arrogant, and now they are "the highest caste". "Untouchables," so to speak. lol
    2. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 14 September 2016 23: 17
      0
      You do not quite understand what surzhik is. This is an intermediate Russian-Ukrainian dialect, which is widespread both in Ukraine and, to a certain extent, among a part of the population in some border regions of the Russian Federation. At the same time, by and large, surzhik is closer to Russian, and not to the Ukrainian language. Although there are also several variants of this surzhik, with different proportions of Ukrainian and Great Russian elements. Ukrainian nationalists have always fought with surzhik.
      In Belarus, the analogue of surzhik is called trasyanka.
  3. maxim1987
    maxim1987 13 September 2016 15: 32
    +4
    Ukraine should be taken between Russia (Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye, Kherson, Nikolaev, Odessa), Romania (Chernivtsi), Hungary (Transcarpathia), Poland (Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, Lutsk, Ternopol, Volyn), and in the rest of the territory let the geese graze and catch in Ukrainian (although more likely in surzhik).
    1. One of you
      One of you 13 September 2016 15: 53
      +2
      Firstly, there is no need to tear anyone, it’s not democratic.
      Secondly, tearing is not our method, i.e. Russian method. We will definitely take our own.
      Thirdly, and this is the most important thing - but what about Romania, Hungary and Poland? Gone are the days of scattering lands - they need to be collected.
    2. megavolt823
      megavolt823 13 September 2016 16: 00
      0
      VERY REASONABLE DECISION. bully
    3. Retvizan
      Retvizan 13 September 2016 17: 38
      +1
      while we have achieved only confrontation with
      Quote: maximNNX
      (Kharkov, Zaporozhye, Kherson, Nikolaev, Odessa),

      given cities. They are not happy with your plans.
      Romania high forest goes. Poland and Hungary will also take, Susunin even distinguish them.
    4. weksha50
      weksha50 13 September 2016 19: 56
      0
      maksim1987 Today, 15:32
      it is necessary to derbanit ..
      .

      Poltava, Sumy, Chernihiv ...
  4. Sarmat149
    Sarmat149 13 September 2016 15: 36
    +4
    [quote = Vile Skeptic]

    What do you think should be related to the Ukrainian language, if everything related to Ukraine is ANTI-RUSSIAN PROJECT?

    I have no respect whatsoever. Your comment is just a solid ellipsis.
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 15: 58
      +1
      Seeing in VO such nationalistic frenzy and lack of education in the dots in my comments replace the mat.

      And the answer to your question is exactly the same as to any other language. Absolutely calm, and without tantrums.
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 13 September 2016 17: 30
        +3
        Vile skeptic "And the answer to your question is the same as for any other language."

        Take a look at any Russian language textbook - the syntax section.
        Parsing:
        "And what is the answer to your question / question? / What is it? /
        - exactly the same / question how? /
        Mismatch: in the first and second parts of the sentence.
        And thirdly: match the keywords "question" and "language" (in the dative case) in your phrase.
        Russian words written nonsense. You go ... to school!
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 17: 33
          0
          Are you normal
          Sarmatian question:
          What do you think should be related to the Ukrainian language

          Skeptic's answer:
          just like any other language
  5. red_october
    red_october 13 September 2016 15: 45
    +1
    Quote: Jarilo
    This is Selyukovsky - Russian-warped. In our villages, too, they spoke in every way, with different intonations, before the advent of the TV. When I came from the village as a child, they looked at me as if I were wild, because I spoke a little differently.

    Ukrainian is closer to other Slavic languages ​​- Belarusian (29 in common), Czech and Slovak (23), Polish (22), Croatian and Bulgarian (21), and only 11 has common features with Russian. Based on these data, some linguists question the unification of the Russian and Ukrainian languages ​​into one language group. Statistics show that only 62% of words are common for Russian and Ukrainian. According to this indicator, the Russian language in relation to Ukrainian is only in fifth place after Polish, Czech, Slovak and Belarusian. For comparison, you can notice that the English and Dutch languages ​​are lexically similar at 63% - that is, more than Russian and Ukrainian.

    Source: How Russian differs from Ukrainian
    © Russian Seven russian7.ru
    1. Jarilo
      Jarilo 13 September 2016 15: 55
      +1
      Well, a quote on a quote from Wikipedia (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Language):

      Like all East Slavic languages, Ukrainian was formed on the basis of Old Russian dialects. In the history of the literary language, there are two main periods: the Old Ukrainian language (XIV - the middle of the XVIII century) and modern Ukrainian language (from the end of the XVIII century). The founder of the literary language is considered I.P. Kotlyarevsky, in the formation of the norms of the literary language, a significant role was played by the work of T. G. Shevchenko [4] [12]. The basis of writing is Cyrillic (Ukrainian alphabet).

      By the way, they have plans to switch to the Latin alphabet.
      1. Retvizan
        Retvizan 13 September 2016 17: 43
        +2
        no plans. Even nationalists will be against it. In the light of the struggle for history, abandoning the Cyrillic alphabet is silly. Even ardent madmen will not go and will not be supported.
        By the way, Wikipedia is the Russian section. I will give examples of Ukrainian
        Ukrainian mova (MFA: [ukrɑˈjɪnʲsʲkɑ ˈmɔwɑ], historical names - ruska, rusinska
        Dovkola prokhodzhennya and becoming Ukrainian movi іsnu decilka hypotheses [25] - prasslov'ianska [26] [27] [28], old Russian [29] [30], pivdennorusska 10-11 stolittya [31] [32] and іnsh.
        I think no translation is required. But a lot of surprise.
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 17: 52
          0
          This excerpt only shows that REAL science should be "sided" with a mouse political fuss
    2. uskrabut
      uskrabut 13 September 2016 16: 03
      +2
      Probably researched the Western Ukrainian dialect. And so, I recall the dialogue from the movie "What Men Talk About": "tea in postil", "ugorshchyna" laughing
      1. red_october
        red_october 13 September 2016 16: 47
        +4
        No, the plate at the top with the words in Ukrainian / Russian / Polish (... and other Western Slavic words-analogues) are all from the literary language. Western Ukrainian dialect - generally atas
        Shevchenko, for example, I read without difficulty, but I understand the Western dialect with difficulty.
        This means that linguistic processes, it does not matter in Ukrainian or English, are a rather complicated thing and do not always directly depend on the political ambitions of the ruling elite at some stage of the country's development. Indeed, initially developing from incl. Old Russian, the language ate Western "material" (as opposed to Russian). - remember, for example, the existence of the Galicia-Volyn principality at one time. In the 20th century, the Bolsheviks, trying to unite the lands that are part of modern Ukraine, came up with a new nation and a new project - "Ukrainians", instead of the Little Russians, who seemed to be gone. And Bendera, Shukhevych and others like them picked up this ready-made project for their own purposes (it was too good it was tailored).
        See document - about the Ukrainization of Soviet institutions in the village
        1. just exp
          just exp 14 September 2016 02: 43
          +3
          it was not the Banderites who picked up the project of the Bolsheviks "Ukraine", it was the Bolsheviks who picked up the project of the Austrians "Ukraine", and now the states are developing this project.
    3. lesnik1978
      lesnik1978 13 September 2016 17: 58
      +9
      The modern Belarusian language is created by Poles and Polish lackeys. We also call it gibberish because it consists of Polish, Ukrainian and invented, as well as warped Russian words. It's time to understand this for a long time.
      1. just exp
        just exp 14 September 2016 02: 40
        +2
        there is not only Polish, there is generally added from the fantasy of words, only one word
        "guintokryl" is worth what, and after all, recently this word was not there, there was the word helicopter.
    4. just exp
      just exp 14 September 2016 02: 36
      +1
      Have you noticed that all of the above "Slavic" languages ​​are adjacent to the German-speaking countries?
      By the way, according to the DNA haplotypes, it turns out that the Germans are not one, but two people. and they have one language.
      can you think of my thought?
    5. SPPIII
      SPPIII 15 September 2016 05: 23
      +1
      Linguistic correspondence is established on the basis of rules and types, rather than individual words. Within the Indo-European group of languages, you can type the corresponding words with any of the languages ​​of this group. But this does not mean their immediate proximity. Proximity can only be established based on matching rules.
  6. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 13 September 2016 15: 52
    +14
    The language of the "true" Ukrainians, who seized power in Kiev, mainly consists of a set of corrupted words: Polish, Russian, Hungarian, and Jewish. At the same time, the Ukrainians of the “west” and the Ukrainians of the “east” practically do not understand each other, not only in conversation, but also in religion and ideology, i.e. between them there is nothing in common except the territory of Ukraine, collected by the Russians for 1000 years and donated to the "brotherly" people!
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 13 September 2016 17: 50
      +2
      Quote: d.gksueyjd
      Ukrainians of the "West" and Ukrainians of the "East" practically do not understand each other, not only in conversation, but also in religion and ideology, i.e. they have nothing in common except for the territory of Ukraine, collected by the Russians for 1000 years and donated to the "brotherly" people!

      fools. I was in Lviv more than once, I understand them normally. They simply do not have imperial ambitions, and the ideals are too simple. Communication is easy.
      Religion is not for me. Yes, and this is a personal matter for everyone. But Ukraine is a common cause — and in this common matter, there are different views on relations by some neighbors .... Ukrainians also participated in imperial projects, even if they were called differently. And even if they are only Ukrainians on the passport, to take away Ukraine from them is to turn them into their opponents. And it will not matter that they are Ukrainian-Russian.
      1. Conrad
        Conrad 15 September 2016 20: 31
        0
        Quote: Retvizan
        fools. I was in Lviv more than once, I understand them normally.

        The fact is that the city of Lviv became "Ukrainian" not long ago, (by historical standards) two generations ago. Accordingly, it was settled mainly by Soviet people. In fact, in comparison with the surrounding villages, it is just a Russian city. Hence your understanding. Recently, of course, the city is filled with people from the surrounding villages, the very "Raguli". Their "dialect" lends itself to understanding the average Ukrainian with great difficulty.
        By the way, Kiev has been changing its demographic composition recently, in the same direction and very intensively.
  7. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 13 September 2016 15: 56
    +10
    "Eternal lackeys of Europe, her spiritual slaves,
    you have perverted ancestral experience, and coffins betrayed your ancestors.
    At the whim of the evil serfs, henchmen of others' ideas,
    you have become a cattle of Europe, you fell in love with the whistle of lashes.
    You betrayed Russia a hundredfold, entrusting the mind to a stranger.
    Russia forgave you, but you pulled your neck back to the yoke.
    Mile to you - a foreign land. And you are destined because
    to know the will of only the lord, and always bow to him ...
    Lyrics by E. Lavrentieva. "
    There is nothing more to add, even the very last, in mental development, the banderlog will not be able to refute these wise words!
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 13 September 2016 17: 54
      +1
      addressed to
      The so-called Galician elite. You can substitute any of our elite, Russian, Ukrainian instead of the Galician one, and the meaning will be the same.
      And here all Ukraine. Yes, and actually the Ukrainian language. The language is preserved not only in Galicia (which very late became part of the main one)
  8. uskrabut
    uskrabut 13 September 2016 16: 00
    +11
    I have nothing against the Ukrainian language, it is good in songs and poems, incomparable from the standpoint of satire and humor, indispensable in discussions in the Verkhovna Rada laughing But, dear ones, what will the well-known 17 film of the moments of spring, voiced in Ukrainian, turn into? I'm afraid to imagine a proof of the Pythagorean theorem in Ukrainian. I don’t know how anyone, but for me the Ukrainian language is warped Russian, a kind of dialect, like Bavarian in Germany.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 13 September 2016 23: 35
      +2
      I read once that it is unthinkable to translate from Russian into Ukrainian, for example, a description of metallurgical technologies, chemical processes, almost all textbooks.
  9. red_october
    red_october 13 September 2016 16: 09
    +5
    Quote: uskrabut
    I have nothing against the Ukrainian language, it is good in songs and poems, incomparable from the standpoint of satire and humor, indispensable in discussions in the Verkhovna Rada laughing But, dear ones, what will the well-known 17 film of the moments of spring, voiced in Ukrainian, turn into? I'm afraid to imagine a proof of the Pythagorean theorem in Ukrainian. I don’t know how anyone, but for me the Ukrainian language is warped Russian, a kind of dialect, like Bavarian in Germany.


    I was at the blackboard at school proved the Pythagorean theorem in Ukrainian. It’s nothing special if you spoke Ukrainian in your family from childhood. It happens. (although, in natural sciences, I preferred textbooks from the Soviet period published in the Ukrainian SSR, it doesn’t matter in which language - Russian or Ukrainian - for obvious reasons, they are much more thorough and understandable. In physics, by the way, we were allowed to use textbooks for anyone who is comfortable, both in Russian and in Ukrainian. The main thing is to reveal the topic. I remember once again at the blackboard - Popova told the radio. Prepared according to the Russian textbook. In the middle of the story I switched to Russian - I wanted to suddenly switch to Russian - and this was a common situation for 90 students years in Ukraine)
    It’s a big problem if the terminology in the nuclear power plant is translated into Ukrainian and all the instructions, too. You need to know the measure and include common sense - everywhere.
    What difference does it make, which map is played by the powers that be - linguistic, religious, etc., they will still find in what scenario to derail the country. If the country's elite is brought up and repeatedly bought.
    1. uskrabut
      uskrabut 13 September 2016 16: 23
      +5
      Quote: red_october
      In the middle of the story I switched to Russian - I suddenly wanted to switch to Russian - and this was a common situation for schoolchildren of the 90s in Ukraine)


      So it is necessary that there is an opportunity for citizens of Ukraine to switch to Ukrainian or Russian at their own request, and not at the direction of a frostbitten Bandera.
      1. Bradypodidae
        Bradypodidae 13 September 2016 16: 54
        +5
        I live in the Khmelnytsky region. In the villages they speak "Ukrainian". I write in quotes, because the rural Ukrainian language is surzhyk + local words, which are not few. In the city, Russian is spoken everywhere, not 50/50, but not 70/30. And no one blames me for speaking Russian. There is a negative truth too. Russian language is no longer taught at school. and literature. And until 2014. these subjects were at school.
        By the way. "Frostbitten bandErovtsy" (Yatsynyuk, Parashenka, Groisman) speak Russian in their inner circle. It's only in public that they are "shyry Ukrainians"
      2. red_october
        red_october 13 September 2016 17: 02
        +3
        Exactly! and professional segments of activity, for example, in the field of technical education, the training of engineers, should (wisely!) be conducted in Russian, since the entire industry of Ukraine came from Russia.
        1. Bradypodidae
          Bradypodidae 13 September 2016 17: 17
          +4
          The elevator is a large-sized drachid. There’s at least bursts, but it’s easier and easier to say the elevator, and not what they came up with in Ukrainian
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 17: 30
            +5
            An elevator is an elevator and has always been so, since in both languages ​​it is a borrowing from English. to lift - to lift.

            Do not take for a serious coin the private exercises with which the network is filled.
            1. Bradypodidae
              Bradypodidae 13 September 2016 21: 01
              +4
              Quote: A vile skeptic
              An elevator is an elevator and has always been so, since in both languages ​​it is a borrowing from English. to lift - to lift.

              Do not take for a serious coin the private exercises with which the network is filled.

              Yeah. Let's take a helicopter. When I was at school (1979-89), it sounded like a Vertolite in Ukrainian (I’m sorry, but Ukrainian. There is no keyboard layout, but it's stupid to be lazy, and unnecessarily). And now it sounds like a helicopter, that is, they stupidly changed the English word helicopter in a rural manner. I'm wildly sorry, but what’s Ukrainian here?
              1. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 14 September 2016 10: 57
                +1
                People, dear, I ask you to clarify - the language is not static. Any language. It constantly undergoes changes - common words become anachronisms, neologisms turn into the category of common words, the base of terminologies, jargonisms, synonyms and borrowed words expands. This is a natural and normal process. In Russian, everything is exactly the same.
                I'm wildly sorry, but what’s Ukrainian here?


                And then what is Russian in the Russian word helicopter? Or ablation? Or a boulevard?
                Yes, in Russian it is not very common; a helicopter is used almost everywhere. But this does not mean that there is no word helicopter to mean the same. As well as in Ukrainian, the vertolith and gnintokryl did not disappear anywhere, none of the dictionaries cleaned them. Use any word, only the language becomes richer for the joy of writers.
      3. Retvizan
        Retvizan 13 September 2016 18: 36
        +4
        prohibit thinking in Russian can not. To speak too. True tightly took up the children. And then an ambush. Children up to 6-7 are sitting tight in Russian (the language in the family) and are already learning Ukrainian as 1 languages ​​from grade 2. True, then they catch up with Russian. In general, while parents and family speak Russian, the children will continue. Similarly with Ukrainian. Wednesday also plays a role - let’s say in Lviv, I’m quickly switching to Ukrainian. Ukrainians in Odessa (native speakers) similarly in Russian. You can see a curious picture of a conversation between a Russian and Ukrainian speaker. No one goes into the language of another. But they understand each other.
  10. Altona
    Altona 13 September 2016 16: 12
    +7
    They robbed Rob, prazuvalov, but did not become a state. I don’t even see the point of discussing the language issue, because the Little Russian dialect and the terrible modern linguistic piling called the Ukrainian language are increasingly diverging ...
    1. red_october
      red_october 13 September 2016 16: 21
      0
      Are you a linguist? Just wondering.
    2. Retvizan
      Retvizan 13 September 2016 18: 38
      0
      Quote: Altona
      pracu pracuvala

      pratsyu-pratsyuvali then too. Little Russian dialect is not always called. Also subject to evolution, although not as fast as Russian.
  11. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 13 September 2016 16: 13
    0
    Sorry, but this is A.S. Pushkin
    Quote: d.gksueyjd
    Poems by E. Lavrentieva
  12. baudolino
    baudolino 13 September 2016 16: 31
    +6
    The artificiality of the "Ukrainian language" is at least confirmed by the fact that it lacks the original sector of commonly used curses. With the exception of languages ​​nat. minorities, there is only Russian mat. Which Ukrainian academicians hesitate to change through schools and the media.
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 16: 49
      0
      The presence of Russian mat and the absence of Ukrainian mat in no way can be a sign of artificial language
    2. red_october
      red_october 13 September 2016 16: 59
      +5
      Yes, he is no more artificial than the Kuban dialect. Western European linguists say that from their point of view, modern Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian languages ​​are one language, especially against the background of a fragmented language picture in Germany, for example. Therefore, curses (if this segment is already affected)) are often common.
    3. Retvizan
      Retvizan 13 September 2016 18: 57
      0
      Quote: baudolino
      With the exception of the languages ​​nat. minorities, only Russian mat is present

      there is a mat, but so strong and intelligible as Russian, always wins.
      Quote: red_october
      often common.

      The letter of the Cossacks is well read even now. Ukrainian is too light. Although the mats are interesting.
    4. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 13 September 2016 22: 16
      +7
      "When filling out the questionnaire:
      - I know three languages ​​- Russian, team, obscene.
      - Wrong, write two languages. Command and obscene are one language. "
      Mat-sore subject? Do you and four more followers?
      Below Kazakh Semurg was noted. Prove to him that the Turkic languages ​​are artificial. Probably, "Matyuknet in Russian" and in Kazakh will add. wink Ask if he can tell you a couple of tales of how the Kazakh language was really "enriched" in the 90s, well, how it is now "enriched" in Ukraine. In the Russian language, for example, there are a lot of Türkic words, and the technical terms are "imported" in one word. I will not say anything about the doctors.
      And, where did you get the idea that the so-called "Russian mat" is Russian?
      What, the Russian language appeared earlier than the Old Russian, and then Little Russian "was drawn"? At least take a peek at the ancient manuscripts, sort of like "The Lay of Igor's Host" in the school "pass." At the same time, take an interest - how many letters were in Old Russian, and how many remained in modern Russian.
      PS Is it true who knows? I read that the Poltava dialect was taken as the basis of literary Ukrainian.
      1. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 14 September 2016 11: 26
        +1
        PS Is it true who knows? I read that the Poltava dialect was taken as the basis of literary Ukrainian.


        Basically, two hypotheses are in use - Poltava and Chernihiv.
        1. Conrad
          Conrad 15 September 2016 20: 40
          0
          Quote: Nefarious skeptic
          Basically, two hypotheses are in use - Poltava and Chernihiv.

          Not true. The modern Ukrainian literary and communication language (TV, radio, newspapers) is based on the Galician dialect. While Poltava and Chernigov are everywhere subjected to ostracism (persecution).
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 16 September 2016 10: 52
            0
            Let's define what kind of "modern" we are talking about. The one from 2004? It's just that in Soviet times I heard exactly what I wrote about above.
  13. Altona
    Altona 13 September 2016 16: 31
    +2
    Quote: red_october
    Are you a linguist? Just wondering.

    ------------------------
    I’m not a linguist, I just served in the Soviet army with Ukrainians from all regions of Ukraine and now I often communicate with Ukrainians. And I even love Ukrainian songs as melodic, well, probably many love them.
    1. red_october
      red_october 13 September 2016 17: 30
      +4
      Why did I ask. When I studied English at the university (as the main specialty) - we had a prescription - to use only texts (speech recordings) of philologically educated English.
      That is, representatives who can represent their language and culture as qualitatively as possible.
      So, the Ukrainian elite (well, what kind of elite, thieves, which we usually see on the air) does not know their language, obviously not at the level of philologists))) So the population of Ukraine as a rule did not read their own writers, and what is lettering , no matter how high jumping on the Maidan, often does not represent. Not all, of course, but those and ... otov that we see on the screen the last 3 of the year, there is no time for works even of Ukrainian classics. Therefore, apparently, and jump. Vicious circle.
      So, what am I doing. As a carrier (native speaker, as the English say), I can say that there is a language, and the language is normal. I read translations of world classics into Ukrainian, I liked it no less than in Russian. For humanitarian purposes (sciences) you can use. But the technical part should go completely in Russian Therefore, 2 state. language at least! This is a security issue.
      PS And they prohibit writing dissertations in Russian, theses, etc., do not recognize Ross. diplomas. Rare woodpeckers who invented this in their academy of sciences and ministry of education. Russian culture, technical thought in recent years 300 nourished the Ukrainian, and putting barriers to this is suicide, who likes it or not,
      1. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 17: 37
        0
        The Ukrainian language has all the technical terminisms found in Russian.
        1. your1970
          your1970 13 September 2016 19: 53
          +1
          simple example:

          Гідропідйомник 8 АТ-9907-00

          Appointments for technical equipment during routine maintenance and repair work. The main working body of the hydrodynamic unit - the hydraulic cylinder - for insuring the safety nut with the locking rod on the base. The hydraulic cylinder is equipped with a hand pump and an electric pump. The hydraulic system of the hydraulic system is equipped with a non-flap valve, which can be used to override a given vice.

          Bortova portable hydraulic installation for an autonomously designed hydraulic system (246-9977-00)
          Pratsyuє on the electric power supply line of the aerodrome dzherela zhivlennya abo vid airborne dzherela (with pritsyuyuyuyu dvigunі AІ-9V). The hydraulic installation is a portable unit with sleeves for connecting to the on-board hydraulic panel of the helicopter and allowing it to be adjusted according to the requirements of the hydraulic system.

          Oh yeah!!! there are technical words, really, that's the thing: I do not know Ukrainian at all - that is, absolutely - the text written I UNDERSTAND. Why? but because they just changed "and" to "i", and "s" to "and" ...
          No, of course, some words I don't understand, but there are not many of them: "be-yakiy" for example ....
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 14 September 2016 11: 02
            0
            Oh yeah!!! there are technical words, really, that's the thing: I do not know Ukrainian at all - that is, absolutely - the text written I UNDERSTAND. Why? but because they just changed "and" to "i", and "s" to "and" ...


            But you are not surprised that many of the terms that you use in Russian (and not the terms too) if transliterated into the Latin alphabet and shown to a foreigner, will he understand them?
  14. Hapfri
    Hapfri 13 September 2016 17: 24
    +5
    We speak this language in the villages. I really didn’t know that illiterate speech turned out to be Ukrainian
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 13 September 2016 17: 48
      +3
      Tell me, did you study the Ukrainian language, do you know it perfectly?
  15. Aleks978
    Aleks978 13 September 2016 17: 47
    0
    Ukrainians do not want anything Russian, so let them not use foul language. All the swear words are Russian, and if they make concessions to themselves in small things, they will never see the "great and mighty" state of Ukraine. The Ukrainians suggest that you put in prison for 3 months or send to the ATO zone for pronouncing the Russian word. Use my idea - I give it. Faster would you change your mind there on the edge into the abyss ...
  16. red_october
    red_october 13 September 2016 17: 55
    +1
    Quote: A vile skeptic
    The Ukrainian language has all the technical terminisms found in Russian.


    The block shield of the South Ukrainian NPP, as well as all the documentation on the objects of atomic energy use of Ukraine, is in the state language)))

    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 14 September 2016 11: 04
      0
      So what? You will agree so much that the infringement of the language is greatly exaggerated laughing
  17. Altona
    Altona 13 September 2016 18: 17
    +4
    Quote: red_october
    Why did I ask. When I studied English at the university (as the main specialty) - we had a prescription - to use only texts (speech recordings) of philologically educated English.
    That is, representatives who can represent their language and culture as qualitatively as possible.

    --------------------------------------
    When I studied English, the teacher advised me how to feel the linguistic texture widely use comparative lexicology. Since then, I have been comparing the vocabulary of various languages ​​and I do not find fundamental differences between Ukrainian and Russian. Moreover, I perceive Ukrainian as a mixture of South Russian dialects with a large portion of East Slavic languages ​​— Polish, Czech, Serbo-Croatian, and Slovak.
    1. red_october
      red_october 13 September 2016 18: 45
      +1
      I can not argue with your teacher))).
      I mean, the standard should be known first of all, I’m talking about this. If English - read Dickens, Maugham, modern writers, if Ukrainian - Kotsyubinsky, Shevchenko, Kotlyarevsky. Provided that there is an opportunity, of course.
      Comparing "to the top" is less effective.
      I certainly respect your point of view. Anyone who does not sit still, but searches, understands, is always worthy of respect.
  18. red_october
    red_october 13 September 2016 18: 34
    0
    Quote: Jarilo
    Like all East Slavic languages, Ukrainian was formed on the basis of Old Russian dialects. In the history of the literary language, there are two main periods: the Old Ukrainian language (XIV - the middle of the XVIII century) and modern Ukrainian language (from the end of the XVIII century). The founder of the literary language is considered I.P. Kotlyarevsky, in the formation of the norms of the literary language, a significant role was played by the work of T. G. Shevchenko [4] [12]. The basis of writing is Cyrillic (Ukrainian alphabet).


    I don't argue. I described with that quote not so much the origin (you have opened this question), but the lexical layers of the modern Ukrainian language. One does not contradict the other. It was funny for me to study the German language at one time and recognize there "Ukrainian", as it seemed to me, words,

    By analogy: English is a Germanic language (as well as Danish, German) but nonetheless about 70% of vocabulary is of Roman origin (remember William the Conqueror and the rich history of relations between England and France)
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 13 September 2016 19: 11
      +5
      I think the more and more violently the Russians deny the Ukrainian language, the wider the gap will become between these two peoples.
      1. OLD FART
        OLD FART 13 September 2016 19: 37
        +1
        Quote: Semurg
        I think the more and more violently the Russians deny the Ukrainian language, the wider the gap will become between these two peoples.

        I always liked Ukrainian songs .. And the Ukrainian language (not Western language fu ..)
        And in Russia it is very common ... was!
        Look and listen ... Trembling in the soul!

        These are the things in the tank troops ...
      2. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 13 September 2016 22: 33
        +4
        Quote: Semurg
        I think the more and more furiously Russians deny the Ukrainian language, the wider will be the crack between these two peoples

        This "patriotism" is such wink It is not the Russians who deny it, these are some individuals who have not learned.
        We all know that the best language is the one my mother spoke.
  19. Retvizan
    Retvizan 13 September 2016 19: 22
    +2
    the language situation is always (as usual in Ukraine itself) highly politicized. The object of unfounded promises of politicians, the object of external interference under the standard pretext.
    In general, the problem is purely internal. I could not (and did not want) to influence the Russian Federation on this.
    The policy of the Ukrainian authorities was based on a simple truth. Allow (make 2 the state language) Russian-Ukrainian will wither away or go to the village as before. Economically, "2 languages ​​are also hard to pull."
    Therefore, the experience of Canada and others is not an option. Moreover, Ukrainian politicians are not Canadian at all. In the wake of promises in language, not one has made (except for the regional).
    Yes, there is a slow crowding out of Russian. Although it is most beneficial to know one and the other and the third. Russian for general - Ukrainian for domestic, English for world.
    In general, the environment is formed for the language not only at school. It begins in the family and habitat. If the family speaks Russian, the child knows Russian from birth and only then learn Ukrainian. Cities are also a powerful factor in influencing the language. Usually this is a melting pot, as for example with us, where you will hear about a dozen languages ​​in the city. But on the whole, Russian predominates and the same visitors are forced to adapt to the environment. (Have you seen a Negro speaking Russian that he is Ukrainian?)
    I repeat, the problem of the Russian language in Ukraine is purely internal. We ourselves have little influence on its decision. We also acknowledge that it is necessary to support the Ukrainian -Before it is without state support. But without infringing on the Russian (I would like but this is not so)
    The steps of the Russian Federation in this regard confuse me. I remember the words of Chernomyrdin. And in general, the Russian Federation and Ukraine (the authorities) only sawed money at the highest level - there they were a language to the bulb (by the way, they spoke exclusively in Russian).
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 13 September 2016 22: 44
      +2
      Quote: Retvizan
      And we also acknowledge that it is necessary to support the Ukrainian - since it is without state support

      This is the hardest hit on the Ukrainian language for all the comments.
      For the recognition that in the state of Ukraine without artificial support the Ukrainian language will die, just the same means recognition that it is an artificial language that people do not need.
      It was absurd to suppose that in England the English language would die without special support, in France — French, in Russia — Russian, well, etc. ..
      1. Retvizan
        Retvizan 14 September 2016 14: 13
        0
        Quote: Odyssey
        recognition that this is an artificial language that people do not need.

        it is needed, but it is easily supplanted in our global world, where everything local quickly goes aside. giving way to the global one. You will not give up Russian in favor of English, for example. From Ukrainian, too, do not give up, tradition, roots, culture. the language is not bad.
        In addition, I expressed the position of a person who is Russian native. And there are people with native Ukrainian. In my understanding, I need a balance between 2 languages. As it seems to many, enter 2 languages ​​and there will be prosperity. But this is not so. But I always supported the path (especially since it is European first)
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus 14 September 2016 23: 34
          +1
          Quote: Retvizan
          You will not give up Russian in favor of English for example.

          Strange logic. Of course, I will not refuse, but I do not say that the Russian language needs any special support in Russia, or it will die. This is exactly what you said about the Ukrainian language. Russian language in Russia is not supplanted by any English , just like the Portuguese in Portugal, etc.
          Quote: Retvizan
          but we are easily supplanted in our globally world, where everything local quickly leaves aside. giving way to global

          In the world there are hundreds of languages ​​that feel great even without being state in their countries. No globalization prevents them
          . The explanation for this fact is simple - these are real, living languages ​​that people need.
          Quote: Retvizan
          there are people with native Ukrainian.

          You contradict yourself, if there are people with native Ukrainian and if Ukrainian is needed, then how did you say that without state support, Ukrainian will die? Then there are no problems at all. Then Ukrainian does not need any support measures besides recognition as one of the state languages.
          Then make Russian the second state, and it’s the end. If you proceed from the thesis that Ukrainian needs people, he can’t stop it.
    2. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 13 September 2016 22: 47
      +2
      Quote: Retvizan
      the language situation is always (as usual in Ukraine itself) strongly politicized.

      Quote: Retvizan
      Policy The Ukrainian authorities was based on simple truth. Allow (make the state language 2) Russian-Ukrainian will die or will leave as before in the village.

      wink
      Well, then Ukrainian did not pass away in the USSR? In what other republic did the national language disappear under the Soviet Union? It's easier, my friend. Just nationalism.
      1. Retvizan
        Retvizan 14 September 2016 14: 14
        0
        Nationalism in Ukraine is a phenomenon not like the others. Well, they don’t even set Europe as an example. Therefore, they are always quickly used and dumped.
  20. weksha50
    weksha50 13 September 2016 19: 43
    +1
    "The question of the language in Ukraine has turned into a purely political one. To recognize the Russian language as the second state language, according to Ukrainian nationalists, means in fact to abandon the Ukrainian language. After all, in the absence of legislatively ensured dominance of the Ukrainian language over Russian, the majority of the Ukrainian population would even switch to Russian. in the official documentation"...

    Well, everything is clear with this ... Especially when the Yushchenko-Tymoshenko couple worked, they themselves - albeit cunning - but tried to speak and speak the Ukrainian language ... Well, Yaytsenyuk also added this, tried to show that he was wide and Svidomo ...

    But now, what kind of clip-video you are not watching, that at state (government and Duma) meetings, that at the ATO - everywhere you hear mostly pure Russian speech ...
    What, well, in any way Ukrainian Mova does not take root ???
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 14 September 2016 14: 30
      +1
      Quote: weksha50
      ATO - everywhere, mostly pure Russian speech is heard.

      APU is mainly Russian-Ukrainians. Ukrainian speech there will not take root. The environment is Russian-speaking. And the commanders give orders in the simplest and most understandable. Imagine your Odessa team in Maryinka. You give the order-Garmaty to the battle, pritsil ... and in that spirit in terms of, and even trying to translate the mat.
      There will be many mistakes.
      Quote: weksha50
      What, well, in any way Ukrainian Mova does not take root ???

      I will tell you a secret, according to our nature - if we are pressed on, we stubbornly do not want to. If softly and not persistently then it is possible. So when they want sharply Ukrainian, then everyone is against it. When softly and unobtrusively through TV, advertising, signs, this is quite such an option of Ukrainization. And as soon as the regional was canceled, so the sex of Ukraine almost fell off. And in the same way, when the Russians say something against the language, we immediately defend it (even if we don’t really own it).
  21. OLD FART
    OLD FART 13 September 2016 19: 56
    +4
    Nothing gentlemen will succeed! You don’t quarrel ... We will unite all the same and then you will envy the dead. We will ask for everything!
  22. Darth Revan
    Darth Revan 13 September 2016 20: 14
    +1
    So make the New Guinean Pidgin the second state language! wassat
  23. rus-5819
    rus-5819 13 September 2016 20: 37
    0
    Separation from the Russian language is the basis of the Ukrainian national identity itself.
    Yeah! On the Maidan in Kuev, Mova celebrates! But somewhere in captivity at LDNR, where does it go? Scratched on a rash that you are simply amazed! Even Sem Semenchenko, wounded in a dupa, swearing so that my neighbor drunk envied!
  24. iz odessy
    iz odessy 13 September 2016 22: 07
    +3
    an article as an article, statistics are equilibrium, and comments are just bread and butter for those freaks "in Kiev from Lvov." They just "sour cream" when commentators fall into their plan .. and these are discussions from the field of historical ethnography and linguistics associated with it. I want to say about the reality of 24 years - the first time I was "washed" for "softening up the incapacitated" in the district administration, a typical Zapedenskaya selyuk driver of the "chief". This is 1994. And then it started. You, commentators, do not understand the essence - we have been living for a quarter of a century in the looking glass by the language arranged for us by the objectively primitive tribe of the Carpathian Huns. I will not talk about annotations to medicines, language discrimination, even at the local government level. Just imagine that your factory, institute or university is transferring to Mordovian or Chuvash and your children too. Why? Come up with a reason - you're smart. The essence of what they are doing to us and consistently and with the participation of such monsters as Kuchma, Yanukovych, who should be betrayed to Kiev and Azarov, is one, through unitarity to burn out everything Russian from our grandchildren and great-grandchildren (for the names mentioned above, unitarity was needed for more "pragmatic" - a wallet and a deriban. It’s convenient .. from kuev to decide which sanatorium to give to whom in Odessa, here they coincided with the Carpathian ones, but they successfully fucked them later). It is Russian, Carpathian, a coffin, since this underdeveloped tribe has neither the ability nor the ability to otherwise "have all of Ukraine" ... preferably before the Don
  25. Egoza
    Egoza 13 September 2016 22: 20
    +4
    First of all, you need to remember the first president Kravchuk !!!!
    What did he promise? Specialist. appeal to the Russian published! And what the Russians got now! am am am
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 13 September 2016 23: 19
      +2
      We then, stupid youth, yelled - Get Mosol - Kravchuk, on the 1st Maidan. But he is a bastard and came to power - a Khatyn in Switzerland, who remembers. am
      1. iz odessy
        iz odessy 13 September 2016 23: 26
        +3
        And ... the Black Sea Shipping Company, it was from it that the "hatynka" mother
  26. Bradypodidae
    Bradypodidae 14 September 2016 00: 59
    +3
    Quote: rus-5819
    Separation from the Russian language is the basis of the Ukrainian national identity itself.
    Yeah! On the Maidan in Kuev, Mova celebrates! But somewhere in captivity at LDNR, where does it go? Scratched on a rash that you are simply amazed! Even Sem Semenchenko, wounded in a dupa, swearing so that my neighbor drunk envied!

    The fact that you don’t like the maydanut is understandable. And who can like them? But what is the fault of one of the oldest ancient Russian cities? Why do you consciously distort its name? In World War II, the USSR lost over 20 million people. Are you distorting the name of the capital of Germany? Does limes systematically spoil the Slavs throughout their history? How do you pronounce the name of their capital?
    And yet. Semenchenko (deliberately with a small letter), speaks Russian, now he is really trying to sprite in Ukrainian, though he’s getting a little better than Azarov’s
    1. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 14 September 2016 01: 06
      +1
      Quote: Bradypodidae
      What is the fault of one of the oldest ancient Russian cities?

      And forgive me, what do you mean by the word "Old Russian"? Russia or, like, we are a horde? They themselves distorted everything, now there is no need to blame the mirror
      1. Bradypodidae
        Bradypodidae 14 September 2016 10: 50
        +2
        History has been rewritten in the past, rewritten now and will be rewritten in the future. This is about the mirror.
        I don't understand your passage about the horde. I will only say that the Horde was not yet in the project, but Kiev was already standing, like Chernigov, like Veliky Novgorod. And these are not Ukrainian or Russian cities, they are the pillars of the history of the Slavic peoples. Our origins with you. And when someone identifies Kiev with "Svidomo", it causes only regret. "Svidomye" as they came, and will go, and Kiev will continue to stand. Something like this.
        1. vignat21
          vignat21 15 September 2016 23: 13
          +1
          But where was that Kiev, which is to the horde? There were 5 of them on the Dnieper, on the Danube, in the Pyatigorye or in the Seven Rivers.
  27. Altona
    Altona 14 September 2016 13: 56
    0
    Quote: red_october
    I mean, the standard should be known first of all, I’m talking about this. If English - read Dickens, Maugham, modern writers

    ---------------------------------------
    I bought English sonnets in 1988 in a book house on Bolshaya Polyanka in Moscow, on the left is an authentic English text, on the right is a Russian translation or translations of various authors (Marshak, Brodsky and others).
    1. red_october
      red_october 14 September 2016 15: 25
      0
      Good purchase, congratulations!))
      I have Shakespeare, not authentic (in Early New English), but in more readable modern English, but I still can't bring myself to read (including his sonnets). This is for gourmets and / or professional linguists, university professors, scientists. Dickens, Chesterton is already more than enough to appreciate the richness of the language. "Martin Eden" in the original (from the recent) - sheer delight!
  28. madjik
    madjik 15 September 2016 19: 33
    0
    we skip tables and diagrams into the proletarian essence!))))))))))))))))
  29. code54
    code54 15 September 2016 19: 49
    0
    In Ukraine, I remember in the traffic police protocol they added the phrase "I ask you to conduct paperwork in Russian" (or something like that, I don't remember exactly).
    Now I have a question for experts, if the Tatar now wants to conduct clerical work in a Tatar court? After all, the language is recognized! Or can the court reject such a request?
  30. vignat21
    vignat21 15 September 2016 23: 17
    0
    Since childhood, I hate mov. I tried to skip the lessons of Mova, and in a pointed manner, and even knock out classmates for truancy. Mova teacher already boiling water ........