The coming horror of the revolution. Or the USSR 2.0? Ideology and economics

381
Having discussed capitalism and socialism in the previous article, we come to two very interesting conclusions.

The first of these is that the capitalist and socialist economic systems in their pure form have by now exhausted themselves. By the end of the twentieth century, the socialist economy had lost the capitalist competition. But capitalism also gradually turned from an engine for the development of society into its brake, and gradually ceases to be useful to society: in a number of areas, capitalism is already openly harmful. Thus, the world is gradually moving towards another era of change, because when society “outgrows” the existing economic system, it changes to a new one. Alas, usually this process is quite painful. The transition from slavery to feudalism was slow, painful, and accompanied by many wars. The first steps towards capitalism were also very difficult: for example, the same fencing in England can be considered as a genocide of one’s own population living in rural areas.



The second conclusion regarding the capitalist and socialist economies is that both systems have their disadvantages and advantages, and they complement each other: socialism is strong where capitalism is weak, and vice versa.

This is where a natural desire arises to somehow link in one harness “horse and quivering doe”, that is, to create an economy in which the merits of socialism and capitalism would merge harmoniously, complementing each other, and thereby minimizing the disadvantages of both systems. It's hard to do ... but not impossible. How?

The author of this article will try to first describe the goal, that is, the state of society that we seek to build. Some of his statements may seem naive, contrived or incomprehensible. For such explanations will be given why it should be so, and not otherwise, how it should work according to the author, and why we need it exactly in the proposed form. And only after a description is given of the society that the author proposes to build, only when the goal that he urges to achieve is clear, only then will he proceed to the description of methods for achieving the goal. Therefore, I urgently ask: even if you, dear reader, seem that the author is drawing castles in the air - do not rush to accuse him of rampant projecting, wait until he reaches the description of the path, following which we will achieve our goals.

Well - let's go?

The first thing to do is to somehow name the society of the future, which the author undertakes to describe. It is impossible to call it the “ideal state”, if only because it is nevertheless imperfect, and mankind will never have any ideal society. Just because humanity will exist as long as it develops, and while it develops, the existing forms of social organization will sooner or later become obsolete, replacing each other, and what kind of ideal can we talk about here? Therefore, we will call our future society simpler: USSR 2.0.

So, the first and cardinal difference between the USSR 2.0 and today's “society of victorious capitalism” should be the “new old” ideology, in many respects repeating the principles of the “Code of the Builder of Communism”. Of course, “largely repeating” in no way means “duplicating”: nevertheless, the new ideology will be much closer to the communist one than the one that exists today.

The first, fundamental and key difference between the ideology of the USSR 2.0 and the existing one is to change the highest value of human development, that is, what, in fact, is to devote to human life. In a capitalist society, this is money. In the USSR, 2.0 should be the highest value knowledge. Why is that? There are three main reasons for this.

Reason 1. Humanity, generally speaking, at all times tended to go forward and try to know the world around him. Discoverers plowed through uncharted seas, overcame thousands of kilometers of unexplored continents, learned to rise in the air and sink to the bottom of the oceans. Sometimes they were driven by a thirst for profit: the same Columbus, discovering America, still just looking for another way to rich India. Sometimes it’s a military necessity: the first submarines, “hidden vessels” were created as a means of destroying the enemy fleet. Sometimes it was a thirst for knowledge, because, for example, there was no economic or military interest in reaching the same North Pole, but people gave their lives in attempts to do this.

But now we are faced with the fact that the surface of the earth has been more or less explored, we have also more or less mastered the air and water, and now we have space before us. However, space studies of other planets are incapable in the foreseeable future neither economic nor military benefits, thus, by and large, capitalism is not too interested in them to do. The result - more or less serious projects in this direction are actually frozen: how long have they been talking about the same flight to Mars? And nothing has changed.

The problem is that at the initial stages of scientific and technological revolution could be moved forward (and moved) by enthusiasts. The first “submarine” capable of diving a few meters under water, and set in motion by muscular strength or “bookcase” capable of flying a couple of hundred meters above the ground, could be collected by one person, or a small group of people. But in order to create technologies and organize, for example, research of the bottom of the Mariana Trench, we need a completely different order of resources, available only to a large corporation, and even a manned flight to the moon is beyond its power.

In other words, each next step in exploring the world around us will cost a lot more than the previous one, but it is necessary to take these steps - gradually, of course, reasonably relating them to the possibilities that we have. Strictly speaking, this is one of the tasks of science: the search for ways by which the impossible today would become possible in the future.



If we give up on this ... of course, not today, and not the day after tomorrow, but such self-restraint in development can cost us dearly. I would not like, of course, to simplify the situation to the level of a space action movie, but if in the course of years through 300 of today's “development” we find a large comet whose trajectory intersects with the planet Earth, what will we do? Will we offer a comet to buy at a discount the newest model of iPhone, which can brew coffee and do a Thai massage?

In general, humanity needs the knowledge of its surrounding space and processes, the development of the basic sciences, even if this knowledge does not guarantee profit in the foreseeable future.

The reason is 2. In the phrase "scientific and technical progress" the word "scientific" is not in vain put in the first place. Technique nevertheless only follows science, realizing its achievements in the metal, so that the high priority of science will be an excellent prerequisite for the growth of the well-being of our citizens. And, of course, their protection from external influences, because modern weapon It is a highly sophisticated fusion of high technology.

And finally, the reason for 3. It is clear that we will never be able to turn an entire nation into scientists and engineers - not everyone will have the desire or ability to do this, and it is absolutely not necessary. But we must return to the approaches that were declared (but, alas, did not always fulfill) Soviet education. In response to Mr. Fursenko, we must return our education system to prepare a “human creator”, and not a “qualified consumer”. Why does society need this? The easiest way to answer this question is the name of the old TV show: “Hello, we are looking for talents”.

The fact is that we need first-class clever scientists, engineers, technologists and representatives of other specialties. So, a properly constructed system of upbringing a "man-creator" will provide the opportunity to search and find gifted children, help them develop their talents, ensure the flow of the "best of the best." At the same time, today's “qualified consumer” system of this kind does not provide at all. It does not motivate the development of the intellect, the search and development of talents, in general: “if you want to be a scientist, become it, but these are your problems, bro!”.

Today we are striding in the direction of caste in education. And this, in turn, guarantees a large staff failure in the future. To provide the country with highly qualified personnel in science and knowledge-intensive industries, “elite” schools “not for everyone” can never replace a full-fledged and high-quality general education system. Just as in the preparation of the Olympic team, several sports clubs equipped with the latest science and technology will never be able to replace mass sport.

In other words, in the ideology of the USSR 2.0, we must abandon the highest value of capitalism - “success”, the measure of which is the amount of money earned. In the USSR, 2.0 should come to the forefront of the harmonious development of the individual, spiritual and physical, and life's achievements should be measured by success in work. The scientist who made the new discovery in his field of science, the engineer who designed the unique production line, the surgeon who managed to carry out a unique operation - these are the heroes of the USSR 2.0. In other words, above all in our new ideology should be appreciated the discovery, or the creation of something new. In second place is high professionalism in what has already been studied: an experienced teacher, whose wards constantly achieve success at the Olympiads, a turner who has mastered the wisdom of his profession to perfection, a plumber, after whose work the pipes have not flow for decades, and at least the janitor whose part always shines cleanliness, and tenants see ice only in the cinema ...

What about the money? Money for a person of the USSR 2.0, of course, is extremely important. But not as an end in itself, but only as a means of ensuring the personal needs and requirements of the family at a level that allows you not to worry about the immediate. In other words, money in the USSR 2.0 is transformed from a goal into a tool designed to provide a person with the opportunity to quietly do what he likes. Not more, but not less.

Interestingly, something similar, in general, was declared in the USSR, but ... it did not work there. And, actually, why?

The fact is that it is not enough to declare such an ideology. It must also be supported by appropriate measures, and certain hierarchies should be built up under it. In the late USSR, with rare exceptions, the proposed rationalization, innovative ideas often simply did not find use, because enterprises were not interested in their implementation, preferring to work in the old fashioned way. High-quality, efficient work only led to the fact that a person began to work "for himself and for that guy," and all this had almost no material rewards. Already in the early Soviet Union, a phenomenon called “equalization” arose in wages. As you know, people’s work is unequal: the work of the head of the design bureau and the work of a car washer brings various benefits to society, and, in theory, should be rewarded in proportion to this benefit. In the USSR, payment differentiation was relatively low, and people often lacked sufficient material incentive to take on more difficult, more responsible work. The second negative aspect of equalization was that it was rewarded, if you can say so, labor, and not its quality. That is, if you take people of the same profession, working in the same team and engaged in the same business, the reward for hard work was relatively small. The reward certainly existed, but it was so miserable that it became easier for many to give up and work “like everyone else” than to scream for an extra ten.

In other words, it turned out that in the post-war USSR the inventor and rationalizer often did not see the introduction of their proposals, and the quality and impact work was not rewarded to the proper extent either by status in society or financially. And this is something in the USSR 2.0 should be corrected. We will talk about how to do this later, but for now just remember the experience of the Stalinist USSR: any work was considered honorable, but this honor was rewarded in quite different ways. A worker who came to the newly built factory could easily live in a hut or a dugout, but the designer or engineer, if he had any merits before the Fatherland, could easily live in a multi-room comfortable apartment, use the services of a housekeeper, have an official car available. In addition, important inventions and discoveries were encouraged by special awards, the size of which at that time reached astronomical values. While in 1939 g the average wage of workers and employees in the USSR was about 330 rubles / month, the maximum amount of the Stalin award was 100 000 rubles, that is, the income of the average citizen for 25 years of socialist labor! You should not absolutize the system of Stalin's material incentives, but much of it has retained its relevance today.

The coming horror of the revolution. Or the USSR 2.0? Ideology and economics

Presentation of the Stalin Prize


In order for the USSR 2.0 to work properly, it’s not enough to change the ideology alone — an economic and domestic political organization is needed in which people’s creative and labor successes would be rewarded both materially and by a corresponding increase in social status.

All of the above is the main, fundamental difference between the USSR 2.0 and what we have today. I understand that with respectable readers, the question has long been in my head: “What about capitalism sharks?”, But we’ll get to that before, but for now let me introduce “The moral code of the USSR builder 2.0”

1. Love to motherland. It should be noted that in the USSR this item included devotion to the cause of communism and love for the socialist Motherland, but we will not interfere with one's love for the Motherland and for a particular state system.

2. Conscientious work for the benefit of society. How it should look like in the USSR 2.0 author indicated above.

3. Respect for life, freedom, human rights, its material and intellectual property. USSR 2.0 - anything, but not the country of "cog people" of the state mechanism.

4. Collectivism and comradely mutual assistance: one for all and all for one. Man to man is friend, comrade and brother. Understand this as follows: USSR 2.0 builds its society in the golden mean between the concepts of collectivism and individualism.

There is an immutable fact - the existence of society, society, is more important than the life of its individual members. That is why in all ages men have fought, protecting not only their loved ones, but also other people of their own kind, the society to which they belonged. That is why a person who, at the risk of his life, saves people in distress, evokes in us a feeling of genuine respect and a question for himself: “But could I do the same if I were in his place?” But there is another indisputable fact: any society is the people who form it, that is, the society exists for the benefit of its people.

Thus, citizens of the USSR 2.0 understand the priority of public interests over personal, but do not allow the suppression of the individual by society or the state. Individualism is prone to rivalry, the collectivism of the USSR 2.0 is much closer to the maxim "Be successful in your chosen field, and help those who are close to you to achieve the same." In other words, the collective in the USSR 2.0 is considered, first of all, as a voluntary association of people whose personal goals coincide to achieve these goals. Accordingly, relationships in a team are built on the foundations of teamwork, respect for others and, of course, mutual assistance.

Since childhood, 2.0 citizens of the USSR are taught to communicate with people around them, that is, it is considered natural to know at least a little about those around us - housemates, work colleagues, etc., be ready to give them all possible help and feel free to ask for such in case of need.

5. The family is recognized as the most important unit of society, it is built on the mutual respect of all its members, the joint upbringing of children, which are its greatest value. In other words, the state encourages in every way the institution of the family, the birth and upbringing of children, and this also includes material incentives. Mothers and single fathers are also respected and supported by the state. Needless families and loneliness, of course, are not prohibited, but are not encouraged.

6. Intolerance to racial, national, religious hatred.
7. Honesty and truthfulness, moral purity in public and private life.
8. Intolerance for injustice.


How does all this work? Well, for example, a young soldier enters the school and is faced with the appearance in his call of a certain fraternity whose members begin to behave impolitely towards others. This is unfair, but the young warrior is intolerant of injustice. Based on the principle of collectivism, he unites other fighters in order to protect their rights and freedoms (another principle!). Based on the principle of friendly mutual assistance, not only those who have already suffered from the “fellow countrymen”, but also others whom they have not touched yet, adjoin the newly formed team. And then this newly-formed team conducts thorough educational work among members of the fraternity, explaining to them in a popular and accessible way the full depth of their errors. Including, of course, explanations that such actions of the community lead to incitement of national discord, and this is completely unacceptable.

Let's finish with this “political information” about the features of ideology and move on to the economic system. It is easy enough to describe it ... but to explain why it will work effectively is much more difficult. This article does not have enough space for a detailed description of the economy of the USSR 2.0, so we mention only some important points.

The fact is that in the theory of the market economy there is a thesis, the validity of which by the majority of its adherents is not questioned. And it lies in the fact that, with the exception of some very specific cases, the state management of the enterprise, and even more so the industry will be less effective than the management of the private owner. It goes without saying that a theoretical basis is laid down, which consists in the fact that the owner, personally interested in economic results, will provide the best level of management, but ... the practice does not confirm this thesis.

The USSR created many models of weapons that were quite at the level of Western models. It was sometimes created that it surpassed foreign analogs in a number of parameters, or even something that had no analogues in the world - yes, at least supersonic anti-ship missiles. That is, for example, in the field of combat aviation Soviet design bureaus, scientific and production capacities quite successfully competed with such monstrous western corporations as Boeing and Lockheed Martin. The achievements of the USSR in space exploration are undeniable - and, oddly enough, the USSR’s stake on cheap "disposable" transport rockets has fully justified itself and has shown an unconditional economic advantage over American reusable spacecraft programs. Although when such a desire arose, the USSR was able to build a Buran, which even had some advantages over the Space Shuttle.



And the same can be said about such a high-tech industry as the nuclear industry. Technologies and scientific advances inherited from the USSR have made our atomic industry not only competitive, but even the leading industry in the world.

Thus, we see that for some reason both the planned economy and state ownership did not prevent the creation of an economically efficient military, nuclear and space industry in the USSR. Someone, of course, may begin to argue with this, but this, in essence, is meaningless: it suffices to look at the export volumes of weapons, space services and the construction of nuclear power plants abroad in modern times.

And this, in turn, means that state ownership of the means of production is not at all taboo, and under certain conditions it can be quite competitive with leading private producers. It turns out that if we understand and reproduce these conditions, then our state industry will face commercial success.

There is another interesting example. The author of this article does not own the full information (in fact, his information, on the contrary, is very fragmentary and incomplete), but it is possible that in the Russian Federation today there is a fairly powerful and very effective public corporation. We are talking about Rostec, which includes 14 holdings, which include more than 700 companies and employs 445 thousand people. Of course, it is difficult to judge about it, having access only to external documents, but the economic indicators of the corporation are constantly growing, it is developing, while giving out "up-to-the-minute" such ultramodern products as, for example, electronic warfare, the same Khibiny ( Concern Radioelectronic Technologies JSC).

It is more than likely that Rostec is far from being so rosy, as the reports show, and it has its own problems in bulk, but which enterprises of the Russian Federation do not have them today? Actually, even if the corporation would simply remain afloat, in the conditions of our wildly capitalism and the jerk of the dollar rate, this would be a great achievement. Nevertheless, it is quite possible that Rostec does not just somehow exist, but finds the strength to go forward. Very few private enterprises can boast of such kind, and this, again, means that a high level of management is attainable in the state corporation. I repeat once again - the example is probably inaccurate, since apart from open data and conversations with several people working in a corporation, the author does not have any other data. But anyway.

So, according to the author of this article, the basis of the economic system of the USSR 2.0 should be a symbiosis of a planned and market economy, in which the basis of the productive forces would be large production state corporations. Private property is not abolished, but the area of ​​private business is becoming much narrower. As a matter of fact, all branches, groups of productions, are subdivided into 4 areas, in which:

1. Private business is completely absent;

2. Private business may be present, but public corporations are prevalent;

3. Private business prevails, but state corporations are also present;

4. Fully given to private business

The first area includes, for example, such a field as foreign trade in arms - in the USSR, 2.0 private enterprises may be arms manufacturers, but their export must be concentrated in the hands of the state.

Oil and gas production, of course, should be returned to the state, and besides, it makes sense to exclude private business from natural monopolies, such as, for example, energy. But there are some nuances.

For example, today the companies-subsoil users themselves do not own the subsoil, but the oil and gas they extract are the property of private companies, from which the state withholds taxes, excise taxes and other charges. So, in the USSR 2.0 oil produced, of course, should be the property of the state. But at the same time, state-owned companies engaged in oil extraction can use the services of private entrepreneurs in the development of mineral deposits and mining.

That is, it looks like this: the state pays for seismic exploration services that a private enterprise performs, and a suitable field is discovered. Then the state can carry out its development (drilling, production, etc.) on its own, but it can entrust it to a private enterprise. However, in this case, the private owner will receive not oil or gas, but only a contract for the provision of industrial services and payment for it - according to estimates. Thus, superprofits are excluded, which private companies receive at high world prices for energy carriers, because their incomes no longer depend on the prices of oil and gas. Nonetheless, private companies can still be present in this market, provide seismic exploration and production services to the state, and receive an honest price for it, making a reasonable profit.

The same applies to energy. According to the author of this article, such serious and important objects as hydroelectric power stations, not to mention nuclear, should be in the hands of the state. In such areas, reliability will probably be more important than economic efficiency, which private owners often achieve by “optimizing” those costs that cannot be “optimized” in any way. On the other hand, maintenance of transmission networks, such as power lines, hot and cold water supply lines, etc. may well be entrusted to a private entrepreneur.

The same goes for many manufacturing industries. The bottom line is that complex, knowledge-intensive industries should be engaged in the state, and private business can perform mainly supporting functions. In other words, for example, the production of transport aircraft should be the prerogative of the state, but private companies can also produce individual parts, spare parts for them. And also to provide all kinds of services - transportation, auditing, etc.

And one more important nuance - if, for example, the production of aviation, the author of this article considers the prerogative of the state, then the operation of this aviation, that is, companies engaged in air transportation, should be done primarily privately. Explanations of why this is necessary will be given later.

The main banks should be state-owned, but some private ones will be quite acceptable. In agriculture, it makes sense to rely on a private producer, but the food industry should be returned "under the wing" of the state. And here, for example, a number of services in the service and social sectors, such as transport and trading services, communication and catering services, personal services, entertainment and recreation, and others, can be left to private business. Moreover, in some areas the state may not participate at all (I can not imagine what utility could bring, for example, public hairdressing), and in some - still be represented only very slightly, at the level of enterprises that the author decided to call “reference”, but what it is and why it is needed - we will consider in the next article.

Education should be public, although a certain number of private schools, universities and vocational schools (especially the latter) are quite reasonable and acceptable. The same applies to medicine. That is, the coverage of state medicine should be such that any person has the opportunity to receive medical care at a state clinic. However, there should be private medicine, the organization of which, however, should be significantly different from today. Private, paid medicine should be, on the one hand, a way to get guaranteed, highly qualified care (it is clear that public clinics will also include graduates of medical universities - troechniki, etc.), and secondly - will enable qualified doctors to receive decent reward for your work.

What is the purpose of the above-described concentration of industry in the hands of the state, the general priority of the state economy over the private one? There are three reasons for this.

First, the fact is that the USSR 2.0 should become a socially-oriented state, whose economy is aimed at increasing the well-being of all its citizens (and not their individual representatives).

Secondly, the economy of the USSR 2.0 should avoid the pitfalls of modern capitalism, such as reducing the quality of products, reducing the duration of its service, etc.

And the first and second easier to achieve in a predominantly state-owned economy.

And finally, thirdly, the fact is that the changes proposed by the author of this article concern not only, and not so much a change in the form of ownership, as a change in the relationship between the “economic entities”. In other words, the economy of the USSR 2.0, of course, remains a market ... but it will be a completely different market, not the same as we see it today.

To be continued ...
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  1. +16
    6 March 2019 05: 37
    Another utopian idea, greed and greed will also be banned?
    1. +18
      6 March 2019 05: 43
      But a beautiful and understandable idea ... I would like to live in such a socially oriented society, why not dream ...
      1. +1
        6 March 2019 05: 46
        You then need to Sweden, there like that.
        1. +14
          6 March 2019 07: 21
          Quote: Pessimist22
          You then need to Sweden, there like that.

          Quite the opposite. Sweden is lacquered capitalism. And we need socialism with elements of private property.
          1. -14
            6 March 2019 09: 25
            There will be no freebies anymore, time has passed - now only market relations.
            1. +11
              6 March 2019 09: 31
              Quote: Vadim237
              Freebies will be no more

              Why do you call socialism a freebie?
              Quote: Vadim237
              time has passed - now only market relations.

              You're not right. Many economists, political scientists and mathematicians believe that it’s just wildmarket relationsare a thing of the past.
              1. -4
                6 March 2019 12: 53
                Quote: Chertt
                Why do you call socialism a freebie?
                -because it was just "Freebie !!!", because "Everything around is popular - everything around is nobody's !!", "At work, you are not a guest, at least take a nail!" © USSR
                Because vases were sold stolen from the factory in Gus-Khrustalny, parts stolen in Tolyatti ....
                I do not remember the name of the village, in which everything (in general everything !!!) was painted in army green. To the question "???? !!!!" followed by the answer - "We have a small factory nearby, he makes paint for the army!"
                At the bazaar, they bought burned (!!!) bulbs - to take them to work, unscrew the whole (home!) And screw in the burned one.
                and so it can go on indefinitely .......
                1. +3
                  6 March 2019 19: 58
                  Quote: your1970
                  "At work, you are not a guest - at least take a nail!" © USSR
                  Because vases were sold stolen from the factory in Gus-Khrustalny, parts stolen in Tolyatti ....

                  It began after the "thaw", Khrushchev. But even under Brezhnev, there was no global rampant theft, as we are presented with it.
                  1. 0
                    6 March 2019 20: 40
                    In the USSR, all negative information in the media was screened out on the other hand - everything blossoms and smells - no less.
                    1. +3
                      6 March 2019 21: 11
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      everything blooms and smells - no less.

                      Do you like how everyone serves now - lunch and excrement, all together? wink
                      1. -2
                        7 March 2019 11: 27
                        Well, at least we know and know what and how they serve - there is a choice.
                      2. 0
                        17 June 2019 20: 15
                        Well yes, a frantic choice - 400 varieties of soy sausage
                  2. -2
                    6 March 2019 22: 35
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Quote: your1970
                    "At work, you are not a guest - at least take a nail!" © USSR
                    Because vases were sold stolen from the factory in Gus-Khrustalny, parts stolen in Tolyatti ....

                    It began after the "thaw", Khrushchev. But also under Brezhnev there was no global rampant theftas presented to us.
                    - you stop joking ("... there was no ..." - otherwise I will throw you a mountain of cartoons from "Crocodile" about universal theft from production and no less a mountain of feuilletons from "Pravda" I am now throwing. then the feuilleton in Pravda is practically a criminal sentence today ...
                    The meat in our working village was mainly stolen from a meat factory.
                    Sugar - a bucket of water has always stood in a warehouse in a store, always ....
                    Now open any old a garage next to a military unit from the times of the USSR - so there will be a lot of military goods, including the most terrible "sovsekret" ...
                    all of you remember perfectly

                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Do you like how everyone serves now - lunch and excrement, all together?
                    -when you close your eyes with your palm like a problem and no, right?
                    And then they were surprised - someone else did not believe the Soviet regime ......
                    NOT there was neither the Lokomotiv stadium, nor Pakhtakor, nor trains near Ufa, nor Novocherkassk, cannibalism in besieged Leningrad, Bandera, AKovtsev and further, further, further ...
                    Of this NOTHING type was not ....
                    1. +4
                      7 March 2019 07: 12
                      Quote: your1970
                      And then the feuilleton in Pravda is practically a criminal sentence today ...

                      Are you going to die? The scale of theft did not think to compare?
                      Quote: your1970
                      And then they were surprised - someone else did not believe the Soviet regime ......

                      But now everyone believes, right? And the amount of chernukha that is pouring from the screens now is better?
                      Quote: your1970
                      cannibalism in besieged Leningrad

                      And what did you mean by that? What wasn’t about heroic defense, but it was necessary to scream all over the country? fool Talking about hunger near the refrigerator is good. How many days did you have to sit without a bug? I think a maximum of a day. Weakly a week or two not to eat, after which field mice go as a delicacy? So better keep quiet about cannibalism.
                      1. -2
                        7 March 2019 17: 54
                        1)
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        The scale of theft did not think to compare?
                        - but easy !!! open "Cotton Business" and look at how many postscripts there were - it's billions of current money
                        open theft in the People’s Commissariat of Communications in 30(!!!) Moscow administration only(!!!) on transfers tyril per quarter the cost of 6 T-34 or the cost of shooting 2 divisions
                        discover the thefts while shooting the movie "Eternal Call" - and you will be surprised to learn that only(!!!!) 12 thousand were stolen on the stage of the execution of old Savely 200 000 (!!!!).And this on 1(!!!) the movie ....
                        I somehow don’t even know what to compare with - Stalin during the millions of thefts in the People’s Commissariat of Communications had a party maximum 600 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) rubles - and in the next building almost five 1,2 million per quarter (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
                        Yes, the current homeless people and halakhas - compared with how they stole during the Soviet era
                        2) once again, if with a palm to close your eyes and mutter about milk yields / gains / cast iron, as the USSR did, will all problems resolve by themselves?
                        3)
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        What wasn’t about heroic defense, but it was necessary to scream all over the country?
                        - Once again, when Rezun later appeared, they believed him ....
                        Exactly because SILENT to the whole country about what everyone already knew. That’s why believe still Rezun- not making excuses historians ....

                        Z.Y. there was a period at the urgency - when there weren’t anything to eat at all for 10 days.
                        Therefore, I know how the wind starts to swing on the third day. Passed by ....
                      2. 0
                        8 March 2019 16: 19
                        Does this mean that [forced] social social development vector (not stopping only in the 2nd half of the XNUMXth century in the USSR) in comparison with today's system - is it much worse, unpromising, criminal, unsystematic and inferior in most respects?
                      3. 0
                        8 March 2019 22: 04
                        Quote: Lycan
                        ... the social vector ..... is much worse, unpromising, criminal, haphazard and inferior in most respects?

                        1) no, not worse
                        2) no, not hopeless
                        3) maybe no, maybe yes.
                        4) is clearly unsystematic
                        5) judging by the 20 century - alas, inferior
                      4. 0
                        9 March 2019 18: 45
                        Quote: your1970
                        4) is clearly unsystematic

                        How "haphazard" if education, health care, employment were guaranteed. Maybe it only looked unpresentable in everyday life (but this is due to the absence of a certain competitive component in our culture).
                        Quote: your1970
                        judging by the 20th century - alas, inferior

                        Weren't the armaments, infrastructure facilities, cultural development - designed, built, developed dynamically and progressively in comparison with today's pace?
                        Well, yes, there could be no private "shops". Maybe, in fact, this is the only thing that darkens our whole impressions? (But this was justified by fears of an increase in private influence on state structures in the long term - here is pure forecasting. Although we know about the flourishing of the oligarchy in the 90s, and all fears are well watched).
                      5. 0
                        9 March 2019 22: 07
                        Quote: Lycan
                        if education, health care, employment - were guaranteed.
                        - what did it lead to? to the fact that it was impossible to fire an outright loafer and drunk, and as a result, the others dragged his work? treated solely by pull-a peculiarity was that you need to have a familiar physician? the fact that the phones of the urologist / gynecologist were handed over as a shrine in exchange for the phone number of the ticket clerk on the railway? "© any plant of the times of the USSR, even somehow it is inconvenient to remind ...

                        Quote: Lycan
                        Weren't the armaments, infrastructure facilities, cultural development - designed, built, developed dynamically and progressively in comparison with today's pace?
                        - how many long-term construction projects were abandoned- and not in 90?
                        Let's say they built a railway (later the famous "Dead" !!) - everything is great, there is an economic justification, projects ...
                        then bang-dying ....
                        and these same people write - that there is absolutely no need, no justification and the project is not feasible ....
                        Or a tunnel to Sakhalin is needed today, but tomorrow bang - and not needed at all ....
                        About the reversal of the rivers - I am generally silent, as well as about land reclamation with drainage

                        there is a feeling that there was nothing at all miscalculated - there was a shaft of money,
                        what I want - then I’ll blurt out ...
                        And about economic I’m silent at all - 20 years metal workers dig metal thrown in the fields during the USSR and there are many more
                2. 0
                  9 March 2019 16: 38
                  So maybe it is a human factor, not a system? If you shoot in China or under Stalin for bribes and theft on especially large ones, the roads would be smooth, medicine is good, and higher education is not only for the rich, but for the smart. Any system is Slag if there is no order, discipline and surname responsibility in it.
                  1. 0
                    9 March 2019 22: 11
                    Quote: Persey21
                    So maybe it is a human factor, not a system? If you shoot in China or under Stalin for bribes and theft on especially large ones, the roads would be smooth, medicine is good, and higher education is not only for the rich, but for the smart. Any system is Slag if there is no order, discipline and surname responsibility in it.
                    - shootings do not help, alas. They did not help under Stalin - it is enough to recall 4 generals who were shot for embezzlement in especially large ones during the war - at the time when the laws of wartime "without the right to appeal and protection" were automatically applied. And this is just a small edge of theft ..
                    None in China-25 years shoot (even in stadiums !!!) - but the number of cases does not decrease
                    1. 0
                      11 March 2019 19: 27
                      Until a new generation with basic principles - Mind, Honor and Conscience, hopes only for executions and complete confiscation of property!
              2. -1
                6 March 2019 15: 47
                While people will be dominated by greed and desire for profit - we can’t talk about any withdrawal of market relations.
                1. +1
                  8 March 2019 16: 23
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  While people will be dominated by greed and desire for profit

                  And by itself all this will not disappear, t. To. units of them manages to get countless riches and influence (which is what the media, statistical tops, etc. sung colorfully about). Intensive training of the younger generation is required, with the replacement of all these defects of consciousness ... by what?
                  What ideology is in line with (assuming that it is needed)?
                  Or not in the mainstream of ideology - in the mainstream of the desire for what (I mean - if not to steal from warehouses, then why not steal)?
              3. +2
                6 March 2019 20: 58
                Quote: Chertt
                Many economists, political scientists and mathematicians believe that just wild / market relations are a thing of the past

                And bankers believe that socialism is expensive and unprofitable, so the Earth is blazing and will blaze in the name of Capitalism.
        2. +15
          6 March 2019 07: 48
          Quote: Pessimist22
          You then need to Sweden, there like that.

          Or is it better to establish life here? wink And then everyone knows how to send ....
          1. +1
            6 March 2019 08: 50
            So how is it written by the author?
            No, and basically impossible. Only on the pages of books.
            The author is probably adept A. and B. Strugatskikh "Noon XXI century".
            It describes exactly such a future. Word by word.
            1. +8
              6 March 2019 09: 37
              And in my opinion, the Efremov’s future is even cooler, there it turns out straight USSR 3.0.
              It’s a pity, all this is utopia, a more likely future is uncompromisingly represented in the WH40K universe laughing
              1. 0
                6 March 2019 14: 19
                Maybe not even the worst option Yes there at least some purpose, ideology and principles are present.
              2. 0
                6 March 2019 19: 55
                Quote: vadimtt
                WH40K

                We are seen to this and lead.
          2. 0
            6 March 2019 21: 03
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Or is it better to establish life here?

            Where do we get Stalin 2? In the article in the photo, he is in his uniform as a hard worker in overalls. Where to get working politicians ?, they can only be educated and passed through a screen of selection. But there is no mechanism! There is no sane Goal!
            1. 0
              6 March 2019 21: 09
              Quote: aybolyt678
              But there is no mechanism! There is no sane Goal!

              Grudinin offered real things. request But he was despicably leaked.
              1. 0
                7 March 2019 14: 44
                Why are you all with your sternum ... well, a naive boy in short pants, who is he like that ..
              2. +1
                8 March 2019 22: 08
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Quote: aybolyt678
                But there is no mechanism! There is no sane Goal!

                Grudinin offered real things. request But he was despicably leaked.
                -ag, only here is a trabl — he was not included in the Communist Party exactly because he’s in HIS the program said things directly contrary to the program of the Communist Party ....

                А real his slogans would be in one single case, for starters, he had to give up his shares in a closed joint-stock company and return the land to the people at least at the level of OAO ..... And only then push everything else .....
      2. +2
        6 March 2019 09: 25
        The idea is not clear and therefore ugly. The author in the title said about the economy, and put forward this thesis:
        The first, fundamental and key difference between the ideology of the USSR 2.0 and the existing one is the change in the highest value of human development, that is, to what, in fact, it is worth devoting human life. In a capitalist society, this is money. In USSR 2.0, cognition should be the highest value. 

        This has nothing to do with the economy. This is pure ideology.
        This is how a man lived, lived. And then I thought: somehow I live wrongly, I need all the money and money. I’ll get into better knowledge. And so they thought at the same time 150 million Russian citizens (or 300 million citizens of the former USSR, as the author prefers). Well, or you can traditionally in a Bolshevik way: we will be engaged in knowledge on collective farms under the supervision of a party organizer who is against cutting down the forest.
        The next thought of the author.
        In other words, in the ideology of the USSR 2.0, we must abandon the highest value of capitalism - “success”, the measure of which is the amount of money earned. In the USSR 2.0, the harmonious development of personality, spiritual and physical, should come to the fore, and life achievements should be measured by success in work.

        That is, instead of money, the mark "drummer of knowledge" becomes the criterion?
        Well, no, of course, even to the author such a stupid ge comes to mind. Instead, he recalls that
        High-quality, effective work led only to the fact that a person began to work “for himself and for that guy”, and all this had almost no material reward.

        It turns out that the yardstick will still be money (fuh, exhale), but "correctly" tied to the results of labor. Well, now they are like nkpraavilno tied, and there will be a Politburo, there they will teach how to tie correctly, how to love your homeland and then according to other commandments of the builder of communism.
        In a word, no eco-economy, continuous slogans. To the truth of the USSR 2.0
        1. +1
          6 March 2019 21: 09
          Quote: Nick_R
          In a word, no eco-economy, continuous slogans. To the truth of the USSR 2.0

          In principle, you are right. Even with capitalist production, a sane life can be established. The trouble is that we do not have this very production. Or it is too special - military, or it is screwdriver, imported, or dying Soviet, but not mass. We do not have Capitalism, we only have a capitalist type of relationship. The governors of the colonialists rule the country. The army guards them. Therefore, such articles are encouraging. Remind us who we are.
          1. +2
            7 March 2019 00: 11
            What kind of production can there be with credit rates of 15% per annum? In such conditions, only a business associated with cutting the budget can be profitable (do not care about efficiency, the main thing is connections and rollback), or that exploits natural resources, incl. the ground. Even trading is now unprofitable. But Putin does not understand anything about economics, and the "elite" fed by him are quite satisfied with the current situation, because, firstly, they actually sit on these profitable types of business (cutting the budget and exploiting natural resources), and secondly, they I really like such high rates, because capital is concentrated in them, a very good income drips onto it.
            Until credit rates in the country drop to 5-7%, there will be no normal economic growth.
      3. -3
        6 March 2019 09: 42
        Quote: Destiny
        But a beautiful and understandable idea ... I would like to live in such a socially oriented society, why not dream ...

        Can you go to China? Just stipulate for a start as a condition that you do not want to be a peasant. It’s not known how many there are and they don’t know how ...
    2. +6
      6 March 2019 06: 07
      Quote: Pessimist22
      greed and selfishness

      This is what destroyed the USSR!
      1. +10
        6 March 2019 06: 14
        Quote from Uncle Lee
        This is what destroyed the USSR!

        And the Russian economy is being ruined by private ownership of natural and energy resources and commercial banks. Do you know this expression - "put on the counter"? Walk around - look in your apartment, how many times have you been "put on the counter"?
        1. -1
          6 March 2019 08: 52
          The Russian economy is ruined by the contents in the minds of Russians.
          It also destroyed tsarist Russia, it also destroyed the USSR, now it is destroying the new Russia again.
          It doesn’t work out like ours.
          1. -3
            6 March 2019 09: 44
            Quote: Mestny
            It doesn’t work out like ours.
            Reply

            Everything is working out for us, Sergey, until many of us are seduced by crafty Western ideas. What is Russian in democracy, Marxism and liberalism? NOTHING!
          2. 0
            6 March 2019 12: 07
            Quote: Mestny
            It doesn’t work out like ours.

            What are your suggestions?
            1. -2
              6 March 2019 15: 04
              Let's at least try to complete to a sane state.
              Let's try to wake up and stop repeating - "we must be given everything." Let's try to get it ourselves, albeit in a small way, and in the conditions that exist in reality, and not in those invented by the theoreticians of a just society.
              1. 0
                11 March 2019 17: 30
                Mestny (Sergey) - here I completely agree with you, but what does not allow to complete the construction - envy, greed and this is the very thing "we should give everything." Now what kind of society we are building, and what kind of society it will turn out, if only it would be comfortable to live in it and therefore we need to improve what we have, and not invent the next USSR-2.
      2. -11
        6 March 2019 06: 18
        the socialists invented ideal people for themselves, who didn’t match them with bayonets to paradise ... bastards and villains, then Joseph Vissarionovich finished them and controlled the second generation (the tops) with the basements of the Lubyanka .... then the system fell, hello 1991 .... any teaching reality-free always ends like this
        1. +5
          6 March 2019 06: 55
          Quote: Dmitry Kuzin
          any non-reality teaching always ends like this

          Yes. But the proposed USSR 2.0 perfectly takes into account the reality
          1. +3
            6 March 2019 08: 13
            I'm afraid that they will again begin to put people in a Procrustean bed, each sees the "ideal" differently, although the idea itself is close to me, although I see a solution to the problem in the form of Christian help to one's neighbor, but alas ...
            1. -2
              6 March 2019 10: 03
              Quote: Dmitry Kuzin
              although I see a solution to the problem in the form of Christian help to my neighbor, but alas ....

              So help. Raise children in this worldview. What was the matter?
              Quote: Dmitry Kuzin
              socialists invented ideal people

              Not just invented, but tried to "create" a person of a new type. Their utopia is in the very imitation of God while denying Him.
              1. -5
                6 March 2019 15: 49
                I’m doing this, I just don’t want the next burry commissar to appear, robbed my family and lead me into the bright future with a bayonet ....
          2. +3
            6 March 2019 08: 15
            Honestly, I have not mastered everything, I prefer not to smear thoughts, but military, briefly.
            Does not take into account. To build the USSR 2.0, it is necessary that all the current thieves and bureaucrats of corruption disappear at once, then you can try to build.
            The corrupt people have become too much now, but the zomboyaschik (specific owners of the canals — frank rats) has done a lot for this. Now everyone is trying to live a Putin's way: he has seized upon the power - steal. How to re-educate all these scum? and re-educate like that. so that they do not interfere with the construction of a socially oriented state?
            1. +5
              6 March 2019 08: 28
              Quote: vasiliev yu
              How to re-educate all these scum? and re-educate so. so that they do not interfere with the construction of a socially-oriented state?

              there are recipes about them later
              1. +1
                6 March 2019 08: 56
                Well, judging by the expected results ... are the recipes probably no less naive?
              2. 0
                6 March 2019 10: 29
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                How to re-educate all these scum? and re-educate so. so that they do not interfere with the construction of a socially-oriented state?

                there are recipes about them later

                Well, with such an attitude towards re-educated people, there is only one way to re-educate them - once and for all! Generally indestructible, it seems that some groups of people have someone to re-educate. In this case, we are talking about mature people? How can children be called scum? Man all the time takes on the unbearable role of the creator and the remaking of everything. They alter, alter and always end up with a lot of extra people in the country, i.e. "scum".
              3. +4
                6 March 2019 11: 27
                Just the news from Chelyabinsk, how will you re-educate such people ?:
                In Chelyabinsk, stores will be fined for cases of people collecting expired products in garbage bins


                - Pensioners rummage through the garbage dumps of stores, collect arrears, we must do something!
                - Raise your pension?
                - You are crazy?! We will fine the shops for this!
                1. -2
                  6 March 2019 19: 28
                  in general, in some regions of the pension more salaries ....
            2. -5
              6 March 2019 09: 19
              Quote: vasiliev yu
              Now everyone is trying to live a Putin's way: he has seized upon the power - steal. How to re-educate all these scum? and re-educate like that.

              There are two options.
              Normal: Prevent Putin’s power and Putin’s own power. In democratic countries, this is not possible.
              Your favorite: Shooting ditches and concentration camps.
              1. +6
                6 March 2019 09: 38
                The normal version, alas, will not work. There was an anonymous poll on one of the sites on the topic: will you steal if you are given such an opportunity according to your position. "Yes" was answered by 93%. So, it doesn't matter who comes to power, Putin's, Zyuganov's or Navalnensky's, they will steal in the same way. Only the second option, only an iron hand.
                1. +2
                  6 March 2019 11: 14
                  ABOUT!!! Give a link, always believed that the percentage is lower and varies in the aisles of 80-85%.
                2. +5
                  6 March 2019 12: 58
                  Quote: AS Ivanov.
                  Only the second option, only an iron hand.
                  "And where did it help? Stalin with fake military units, thefts on the railway and in connection? In China, where already 25 (!!!!) years shoot? Where? !!!!
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. +1
                    7 March 2019 02: 12
                    "And where did it help? Stalin had fake military units, thefts on the train and in connection? In China, where they have been shooting for 25 (!!!!) years? Where? !!!!

                    I do not understand. What do you want to prove this?
                    What is one country where there is 100% no theft?
                    Under Stalin, these were atypical cases, compare with our reality.
                    In China, too, there is no such theft as ours, on the same scale when all the officials from the Government steal to the lower ranks like ours.
                    So the landings and executions are good for crime prevention and for re-education. You write how many have always stolen in the USSR, but it was at the grassroots level, not billions. And by the way, not everyone was stealing at the same grassroots level, many were simply ashamed to do this.
                    Okay, I’m writing the explanations here not for you anymore, you are sure of yours, your right. And I am sure that the confiscation and executions of especially tangled beaches are very excellent prevention of theft.
                    1. 0
                      7 March 2019 17: 36
                      Quote: vasiliev yu
                      In China too no such theft as ours, on the same scale when all the officials from the Government steal to the lower ranks like ours.
                      - for the dull - and whom they are already 25 (!!!!!!) years shot-if theft no???????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                      1. 0
                        7 March 2019 18: 08
                        I don’t even know what to think about you ((
                        Are you able to understand what you read ?:
                        In China, either this theft like ours

                        Or are you like a wood grouse on a current, but you don’t hear anyone?
                        I’m already tired of the argument, I see that it’s pointless to communicate already.
                3. +1
                  7 March 2019 02: 19
                  There was an anonymous survey on one of the sites on the topic: will you steal if you are given such an opportunity according to your position. "Yes" was answered by 93%.

                  93% of this does not mean anything. Some wrote so clearly from their poverty and hopelessness, such as: they have such a dream, at least steal, but live at least a little in human conditions.
                  And if you had such a survey under the USSR? What would be the statistics?
              2. -2
                6 March 2019 09: 44
                Shooting ditches and concentration camps.

                There is a third.
                Crematorium.
                1. +2
                  6 March 2019 10: 21
                  Quote: vasiliev yu
                  There is a third.
                  Crematorium.

                  This is just the development of the second option in terms of waste disposal of production of happiness.
                  1. -1
                    6 March 2019 10: 41
                    But more profitable, it is not necessary to guard and feed thieves for months and years.
                    1. +3
                      6 March 2019 13: 50
                      Quote: Vasilyev u
                      But more profitable, it is not necessary to guard and feed thieves for months and years.

                      Do not get tired of murder? I understand that it’s so difficult to create conditions that do not allow to steal, it’s easier to hole your head.
                      1. -1
                        6 March 2019 14: 15
                        Do not get tired of murder? I understand that it’s so difficult to create conditions that do not allow to steal, it’s easier to hole your head.

                        Bl @, and why can’t you do like in China? And the conditions to create and especially brazen holes?
                        And the comment above is my humor.
                      2. 0
                        7 March 2019 14: 47
                        What do you idealize China? Only bits of information about what is there reach us ... there is nothing ideal
                      3. +1
                        7 March 2019 16: 00
                        You are mistaken, it comes a lot. Including why they do not want to have business with us at the state level (investment): only because of our corruption and how much our rats are asking for kickbacks. And at the state enterprises of China it is not inherent in the costs to feed our thieves. But all this I usually learn in Telegram.
                        And it makes no sense to argue already, you will remain with your opinion, I will be with you.
            3. 0
              6 March 2019 09: 29
              No one will build it - so you can forget about it, now everyone needs money.
            4. +5
              6 March 2019 09: 41
              How to re-educate all these scum?

              As history shows, no way. Before that, for 70 years we came to power with beautiful slogans, and then became new feudal lords.
              1. +2
                6 March 2019 11: 15
                This is understandable, most go there for "their slaves" ...
          3. +1
            6 March 2019 08: 39
            Dear Andrey. I largely agree with the provisions of your article, but, in my opinion, you are mistaken on the main point - there is no such socio-economic formation as "socialism". Just as "imperialism" is the final stage of capitalism, so "socialism" is a transitional phase from capitalism to communism. And as in any transitional phase - in socialism there is a huge number of elements of capitalism, so to speak "birthmarks". But you will not complain about the lack of comfort in the apartment when the house is being built.
          4. +5
            6 March 2019 08: 55
            The proposed USSR 2.0 perfectly takes into account the fictional reality filled with ideal people who think only of public welfare and the development of society.
            In the real world, no matter how you try, the percentage of such people will probably not exceed half.
            It is this - the support of the principles of building a society on ideal, made-up people - that ruined the USSR 1.0
            1. +2
              6 March 2019 11: 16
              Even a quarter.
            2. +5
              6 March 2019 12: 08
              Quote: Mestny
              In the real world, no matter how you try, the percentage of such people will probably not exceed half.

              -------------------
              The petty-bourgeois morality implanted in society is doing its job. And by the way, stupid Russian slogans "to feed from the elbow" and "did not try to work" are also appeals to spin for the benefit of the oligarchs so that they maximize your "squirrel" wheel, make you spend time and health on additional work, because the main one pays little.
              1. -2
                6 March 2019 15: 09
                Well, then of course you don’t have to work.
                And convenient as. Doing a noble cause, fighting for justice, lying on the couch.
                Yes, and you shout at the TV - "give me the ration, chief."
                Beauty!
                Here it is, the essence of your ideas, and its carriers.
                That is precisely why no one will ever follow you in your right mind.
                1. 0
                  9 March 2019 12: 22
                  Quote: Mestny
                  Well, then of course you don’t have to work.
                  And convenient as. Doing a noble cause, fighting for justice, lying on the couch.
                  Yes, and you shout at the TV - "give me the ration, chief."
                  Beauty!
                  Here it is, the essence of your ideas, and its carriers.
                  That is precisely why no one will ever follow you in your right mind.

                  Are you tired of lying?
            3. 0
              6 March 2019 17: 02
              Quote: Mestny
              The proposed USSR 2.0 perfectly takes into account the fictional reality filled with ideal people who think only of public welfare and the development of society.

              Absolutely not. It will be great for those who are now :)))
              You confuse ideology and prerequisite, they are different things. I have practically nothing tied solely to consciousness
          5. +2
            6 March 2019 09: 38
             But the proposed USSR 2.0 perfectly takes into account reality

            How it all starts, if you no longer distinguish between your own thoughts and the surrounding reality.
          6. +1
            6 March 2019 09: 45
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Yes. But the proposed USSR 2.0 perfectly takes into account the reality

            And what is the purpose of this state?
            1. 0
              6 March 2019 09: 54
              Normally. Achieving the most successful highest benefits.
              1. +1
                6 March 2019 10: 08
                I mean, what will the new USSR build? Communism? Maybe I missed something, but I did not understand this from the article.
                1. -1
                  6 March 2019 15: 12
                  He will build the most convenient system for a new group of people under the flag of a new ideology with the hands of less savvy.
                  What it will be called, and what to declare is not important. Let there be communism, for example.
                  The final goal is understandably the same as usual - getting maximum power and all sorts of tasty buns for adherents of this process.
                  The expression "people eat caviar through the mouth of their best representatives" was invented in the USSR. And nobody canceled it, and will not cancel it in the next 300 years.
            2. 0
              6 March 2019 12: 09
              Quote: Felix Beinarovich
              And what is the purpose of this state?

              ------------------
              The development of a creative person and a fair society.
              1. -1
                6 March 2019 12: 32
                And what is the name of this social formation? Communism 2.0?
                1. -3
                  6 March 2019 15: 15
                  What's the difference?
                  The main thing is the process. This is such a noble goal - the development of a creative person. Clear business, for her nothing is sorry, millions of victims.
                  But what about? You just have to be patient. It’s nonsense that your children will die of hunger in a cold hut, while you yourself will build a bright future with a pickaxe and a shovel.
                  But then, after 100 years - imagine how we will heal!
                  And they will remember you, remember your feat. Mandatory.
                  ... And knee-deep in mud, walking in a column to work, you will whisper with cold pale lips - "I, we are building communism 2.0!"
                  1. +1
                    9 March 2019 12: 25
                    Quote: Mestny
                    What's the difference?
                    The main thing is the process. This is such a noble goal - the development of a creative person. Clear business, for her nothing is sorry, millions of victims.
                    But what about? You just have to be patient. It’s nonsense that your children will die of hunger in a cold hut, while you yourself will build a bright future with a pickaxe and a shovel.
                    But then, after 100 years - imagine how we will heal!
                    And they will remember you, remember your feat. Mandatory.
                    ... And knee-deep in mud, walking in a column to work, you will whisper with cold pale lips - "I, we are building communism 2.0!"

                    Are you still tired of showing your amazing stupidity to the city and the world?
          7. +2
            6 March 2019 12: 05
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Yes. But the proposed USSR 2.0 perfectly takes into account the reality

            ---------------------
            Have you really begun to lion? In a nutshell, your article boils down to the need to return morality and ethics to society, otherwise everything will degrade. On the economic side, something like NEP. I ran diagonally, in general, normal people have long seen class differences and social fascism. Now, apparently, it began to reach the publicists.
        2. -5
          6 March 2019 08: 14
          those who don’t like my post, apparently do not like Joseph Vissarionovich, who ended the bastards-revolutionaries
          1. +5
            6 March 2019 08: 56
            Quote: Dmitry Kuzin
            those who don’t like my post, apparently do not like Joseph Vissarionovich, who ended the bastards-revolutionaries

            Modestly so ... offending me - offend Comrade Stalin!laughing
            1. -9
              6 March 2019 15: 45
              of course, for either you are Stalinists or liberal Bolsheviks
              1. +4
                6 March 2019 16: 03
                Quote: Dmitry Kuzin
                of course, for either you are Stalinists or liberal Bolsheviks

                Curious, do you understand what you are writing? Or are you just repeating the subtracted stamps somewhere?
                Bukovka (b) headed by I.V. Stalin, explain the party in the light of your "theories"? However, you shouldn't, your explanations are not interesting to me. You didn't even see humor and sarcasm. hi
          2. +5
            6 March 2019 09: 41
            Quote: Dmitry Kuzin
            apparently I do not like Joseph Vissarionovich, who finished the bastards-revolutionaries

            But was not Comrade Stalin a revolutionary? Didn't Comrade Stalin participate in the revolution?
            1. 0
              6 March 2019 10: 12
              Quote: solzh
              But was not Comrade Stalin a revolutionary? Didn't Comrade Stalin participate in the revolution?

              Participated, but not in the lead. And by the way, for the time being, he exalted Trotsky as a real and practical creator of the revolution. You will not deny that subsequently with faithful Leninists i.e. it was with the revolutionaries that he ended. Trotsky, by the way, too.
              1. +6
                6 March 2019 10: 36
                But Molotov was not a faithful Leninist? With all due respect to Stalin, Molotov put Lenin in the first place until the end of his life. And Stalin, no matter what they say, treated Lenin with the greatest respect.
                1. -3
                  6 March 2019 18: 55
                  things say the opposite, and words are a ritual
              2. +5
                6 March 2019 11: 26
                Quote: Felix Beinarovich
                Participated, but not in the lead.

                During the revolution, Stalin headed the Military Revolutionary Center, which also included members of the Central Committee Bubnov, Dzerzhinsky, Sverdlov, Uritsky. Simultaneously with the Great October Socialist Revolution, the Second All-Russian Congress, Stalin was elected a member of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars. 
                And you say "not in the first roles."
                Quote: Felix Beinarovich
                extolled Trotsky as a real and practical creator of the revolution

                It never happened.
                Quote: Felix Beinarovich
                You will not deny that subsequently with faithful Leninists i.e. it was with the revolutionaries that he ended.

                I will. Stalin did away with the Trotskyists, but not with the Leninists. Stalin himself was a true Leninist. On this occasion, well wrote my comment Sergej1972
                Quote: Felix Beinarovich
                Trotsky, by the way, too.

                Thank you, otherwise I did not know on whose order Mercader "presented" an ice ax to Trotsky.
                1. 0
                  6 March 2019 12: 07
                  You are Sergey, just bring a little list of people from the close circle of Lenin shot by Stalin. In this case, it would be logical to say that Lenin and the Trotskyists made a revolution, but Stalin simply did not like it and he became revolutionary No. 2! Or is it still No. 1 ?! For fun, inquire how many of the dedegates of the subsequent congresses of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks survived direct participants in revolutionary events. You don’t want to think at all, or have traitors made a revolution?
                  1. +2
                    6 March 2019 12: 14
                    I also recommend, Sergei, to see how many enemies of the people, traitors and spies turned out to be by the end of the 30s in the Moscow and regional party organizations ?! And also all the old Bolsheviks are revolutionaries ... How so?
                    1. +3
                      6 March 2019 18: 15
                      Quote: Cheslav Czursky
                      And also all the old Bolsheviks are revolutionaries ... How so?

                      What do you mean by "old Bolsheviks"? For example, Molotov, despite the fact that he was a member of the party since 1906, did not consider himself an old Bolshevik. In Soviet, Stalinist, times, the participants of the first Russian revolution of 1905 were attributed to the old Bolsheviks.
                  2. +2
                    6 March 2019 18: 10
                    Quote: Felix Beinarovich
                    bring the list yourself persons from the inner circle of Lenin shot by Stalin.

                    In certain periods of his life, Lenin was friendly and very close with Martov, and with Vaneev, with Zinoviev and Kamenev. Lenin had a friendly disposition towards Sverdlov, Dzerzhinsky, Podvoisky, Lunacharsky, and many others.

                    The Trotskyists called themselves "Lenin's Guard" and "true Leninists". Yourself! They weren't. All these Trotskyists joined the Bolsheviks in 1917, not long before the October Revolution. An example is Antonov-Ovseenko, he became a Bolshevik only in the summer of 1917.

                    The same Bukharin, despite the fact that he had been a member of the RSDLP since 1906, he held radical left positions and was "more to the left than Lenin." What kind of Lenin is he?
                    Quote: Felix Beinarovich
                    it would be logical to argue that Lenin and the Trotskyists made a revolution

                    Not logical.
                    Quote: Felix Beinarovich
                    or have revolution been committed entirely by traitors?

                    The leadership of the Bolsheviks, on the question of the uprising, was divided into three main groups. The first group, Kamenev and Zinoviev, were opposed to the idea of ​​rebellion, while the second group, Trotsky's group, considered it necessary to coincide with the uprising at the time of the Congress of Soviets. Lenin demanded to start an uprising immediately. The point of view of Lenin won.
                    In addition, in the October Revolution, along with the Bolsheviks, the party of the Left Socialist-Revolutionaries, anarcho-communists, participated.
                    After the revolution, a number of socialist parties refused to enter a single socialist government, the same AKP (Party of Socialist Revolutionaries, not to be confused with the Socialist-Revolutionaries).
                    Quote: Felix Beinarovich
                    For fun, inquire how many of the dedegates of the subsequent congresses of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks survived direct participants in revolutionary events.

                    For curiosity, look at their political affiliations, completely left-wing Communists, Trotskyists, Socialist-Revolutionaries and Mensheviks. True Bolsheviks, supporters of Lenin, were practically absent in them.
            2. -3
              6 March 2019 15: 46
              he was, in fact, an inveterate "counter" like Napoleon in the French Revolution, only smarter and more integral
          3. -1
            6 March 2019 12: 13
            Quote: Dmitry Kuzin
            Joseph Vissarionovich, who finished the bastards-revolutionaries

            ---------------------
            Once again, a small educational program:
            1) A revolution is a change in the social system, not a civil war.
            2) In 1917, the Soviets peacefully took power.
            3) The White Guards began the civil war with the uprising of the Czechoslovak corps.
            4) "Scoundrels-revolutionaries" are ordinary careerists who hide behind a "class struggle" to keep their places in power.
            1. -7
              6 March 2019 15: 48
              what other excuses do you find? for grant-eaters who created their party in London? and whose leader called in 1916 to turn the Second World War into a civil war? if what, it was Vladimir Ilyich
              1. +4
                6 March 2019 19: 26
                Quote: Dmitry Kuzin
                to turn the Second World War into a civil war? if what, it was Vladimir Ilyich

                Did you read Lenin or did you just write your comment from a set of stamps?
                If Che, then the imperialist "second patriotic" was called only by Nicholas himself, 2 whom the people called "Bloody". And the people did not understand this war.
                1. -5
                  6 March 2019 19: 30
                  the name of this people! and with what money did he publish a "spark" and other "falsehood", oh yes, you are shy, I will pay off it myself - the money was British (and how is Lenin-Trotsky different from his follower Vlasov?)
              2. +1
                9 March 2019 12: 28
                Quote: Dmitry Kuzin
                what other excuses do you find? for grant-eaters who created their party in London? and whose leader called in 1916 to turn the Second World War into a civil war? if what, it was Vladimir Ilyich

                Again white mold with its own tales.
                1. 0
                  11 March 2019 19: 36
                  London servant again, screeching
            2. -6
              6 March 2019 19: 32
              those. Do you consider the condemnation of the leaders of the revolution under articles Espionage and treason to the motherland, an evil libel?
              1. 0
                11 March 2019 19: 37
                exactly, Trotskyists, was good Joseph Vissarionovich, oh good .....
      3. +3
        6 March 2019 07: 26
        Quote from Uncle Lee
        This is what destroyed the USSR!

        The USSR ruined the discrepancy between hearing and vision. People heard slogans alone, but around them saw another
      4. 0
        6 March 2019 21: 20
        Quote from Uncle Lee
        greed and selfishness

        This is what destroyed the USSR!

        The USSR was ruined by the insanity of its leaders, their lack of understanding of the essence of the Stalin project.
    3. +1
      6 March 2019 06: 54
      Quote: Pessimist22
      greed and greed will also be banned?

      Does the article have a word about bans? :))))
      1. +1
        6 March 2019 21: 22
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Does the article even have a word about prohibitions?

        but what about? In a socialist society, it is forbidden to put personal interests above public ones.
    4. +1
      6 March 2019 07: 23
      Quote: Pessimist22
      greed and greed will also be banned?

      As the author suggests, greed and self-interest — that is, capitalism — will be built into the system at the grassroots level.
      1. +2
        6 March 2019 08: 58
        Great theories ... How to implement them? It is necessary to rid a person of qualities "superfluous" for these theories.
        There is one option. Genetic correction. Which of course will lead to the most monstrous tyranny in the history of civilization.
        By the way, there are such fantastic novels about such a future.
        1. 0
          6 March 2019 09: 10
          Quote: Mestny
          By the way, there are such fantastic novels

          What does it have to do with science fiction? The author gives a very realistic picture. And he is not alone. Many economists and sociologists write about the same thing. A. Wasserman gives this process a mathematical justification. Moreover, these changes are being carried out at this time, clumsily, with excesses and inflections, but the transformation is underway.
          1. 0
            6 March 2019 09: 30
            Only they do not write - where to get the money for all this and who will do it all.
            1. +1
              6 March 2019 09: 37
              Quote: Vadim237
              where to get all this money and who will do it all

              When replacing the bulky, obese bureaucratic apparatus, huge resources will be freed up (see budget items). And who will do it, think for yourself
              1. -2
                6 March 2019 09: 57
                Ahhhhhh !!!!!
                Replace who will be? What kind of shisha?
                1. +2
                  6 March 2019 10: 05
                  Ahhhh !!!! Do you imagine a replacement for yourself ???. Two more will be built next to one Ministry. Or vice versa, five loafers will be expelled and their functions (in the corrected form) will be performed by one person. Let’s think what God sent wink
                  1. -1
                    6 March 2019 15: 22
                    Р'РѕС ‚Рё РґСѓРјР ° йте.
                    A. Wasserman gives this process a mathematical justification. Moreover, these changes are being carried out at this time, clumsily, with excesses and inflections, but the transformation is underway.

                    I won’t talk about the mathematical foundation - this thing is well-known, you can basically justify anything.
                    But the result of these changes, the path and with excesses are not observed in any way.
                    1. +1
                      6 March 2019 15: 37
                      Quote: Mestny
                      But the result of these changes is not observed

                      Look around without stereotypes. Is China socialism or capitalism ?. And Russia (only without slogans), state. capitalism or some kind of transitional stage? And then it will be harder
                      1. -2
                        6 March 2019 15: 56
                        In China, 70% of the population has no pensions, and 300 million beggars do not particularly contribute to the portrait of the welfare state.
              2. -1
                6 March 2019 13: 39
                Quote: Chertt
                When replacing the bulky, obese bureaucratic apparatus, huge resources will be freed up (see budget items).
                - a very miserable percentage of expenses, if that ... but how then to howl the population to the moon - I have already seen it several times.
                A person comes with a typo in the documents - and to him "There is no such body! And the powers have not been transferred to anyone!" Everything ..... And after that he walks in a vicious circle, writes complaints all over the place
              3. -2
                6 March 2019 15: 54
                I’ll tell you how much will be freed up when 60% of all officials are cut off - the amount of interest is overpriced by 30% - 3,6 trillion rubles, this money is barely enough to raise pensions to at least 20000 rubles every month for a year.
                1. -1
                  7 March 2019 02: 42
                  I’ll tell you how much will be freed up when 60% of all officials are reduced — the amount of interest is overpriced by 30% — 3,6 trillion rubles

                  Stupidly deceiving the people and not speaking.
                  And how many can not steal these ghouls already? Did you think that? How much later will it not be necessary to pay the same ghouls increased pensions for them not only as useless, but for all the destructive work of bureaucrats? Also wondering? The advantages of this can still be dug a bag, there would be a desire not to be silent about all this.
                  1. -1
                    7 March 2019 11: 35
                    In fact, we have almost 30 million of these ghouls — tax evaders — 20 trillion rubles in the shade and no matter how many officials you cut — their theft is a minuscule amount compared to the guys described above, they’re not going to pay under any authority and they won’t - but because of their actions, the state will raise taxes for honest taxpayers. How to deal with them is an open question, these will come up with 101 ways to avoid paying taxes and bypassing tax laws.
                  2. 0
                    7 March 2019 18: 07
                    Quote: vasiliev yu
                    How much later will it not be necessary to pay the same ghouls increased pensions for them not only as useless, but for all the destructive work of bureaucrats? Also wondering?
                    -that we now have two ghouls retire, two main specialist experts ....
                    increased pension in size .... 8900 !!!!
                    they’ll help the state’s budget, yeah .......
                    1. 0
                      7 March 2019 18: 12
                      Last comment:
                      You see only from your bell tower, you have no breadth of view.
                      What do you think, all bureaucratic rats retire with 8 900 rubles?
                      1. 0
                        7 March 2019 18: 22
                        Quote: vasiliev yu
                        What do you think, all bureaucratic rats retire with 8 900 rubles?
                        Do you think everyone has a ministerial salary ???
                        you with your "open-mindedness" now swept under the same brush and girls secretaries of the 3rd class with 8000 pay and ministers ?? !!! so the first 99% of the government apparatus is ...
                        ZY
                        Quote: vasiliev yu
                        bureaucratic rats
                        - remember one thing without bureaucratic rats the population becomes ill ....
                        Here we have in the 38 regions of the Regpalata region - and now there are 14 (and soon there will be 9). Previously, it was possible to come running, bring documents, to fix something. Now the registrar simply refuses registration - on absolutely legal grounds. And your 2,5 thousands for registering a house in connection with the refusal - fly off to the budget (absolutely within the law !!!!!).
                        And the population is already howls - they say, it became bad ....
        2. +1
          6 March 2019 21: 46
          Quote: Mestny
          Great theories ... How to implement them? It is necessary to rid a person of qualities "superfluous" for these theories.

          as A. Khodov read "Transduction" fiction, there is a real version of the future for such a theory.
          1. +1
            7 March 2019 04: 14
            But from the last:
            Valentina Matvienko at a meeting with students of Moscow State University.
            “I was spinning as I could. At first she was a Komsomol member, then a communist, in time she became a democrat. And so now I am in the place that I occupy. You need to be able to spin ”.
            http://novosti-saratova.ru/vera-afanaseva-besstyidstvo.html
            By the way, I subscribed to it in Telegram, I do not quite agree with her, but with many. How will the author correct such political ... institutions?
    5. +5
      6 March 2019 07: 41
      Quote: Pessimist22
      self-interest will also be banned?

      Chinese experience shows that self-interest can be, if not cured, then reduced at times quite realistically.
      1. +1
        6 March 2019 08: 18
        Chinese experience shows that self-interest can be, if not cured, then reduced at times quite realistically.

        That's right, gangrene is not treated with pills and physiotherapy.
        1. +3
          6 March 2019 09: 00
          The traditional question.
          Who will determine who to chop and who to leave?
          Those who determine - are they, themselves crystal clear?
          It happened before. And it will be again.
          1. +2
            6 March 2019 09: 35
            In your opinion, do we need to disperse the police and the courts?
            And suddenly one of them is dishonest, how could it be so bad to judge people - who is honest and who is not?
            1. 0
              6 March 2019 09: 59
              I just understand the unclean on hand.
              The author does not understand. Specifically, about where he will take the crystal clear on hand for the implementation of his ideas.
              1. +1
                6 March 2019 10: 04
                Then to blame, did not reach me.
                I also think about this about you.
          2. +2
            6 March 2019 09: 41
            There is a criminal code - everything is written there. It is enough to apply it with all severity and inevitability. But who will do it?
            1. 0
              6 March 2019 09: 59
              Quote: AU Ivanov.
              There is a criminal code - everything is written there. It is enough to apply it with all severity and inevitability. But who will do it?

              That's it!
              1. +1
                6 March 2019 19: 51
                Quote: Mestny
                That's it!

                Then let's not rely on state institutions at all, because it makes no sense, right? "Voroshilovsky shooter" rules?
                1. -1
                  7 March 2019 00: 48
                  let's better not invent that somewhere there are more fair options.
                  1. 0
                    7 March 2019 06: 54
                    Quote: Mestny
                    let's better not invent

                    Personally, you can relax and have fun. wink But personally, this option does not suit me, like many others.
          3. -4
            6 March 2019 11: 05
            Utopian socialism must be completely drowned! and build a social state that, to the best of its ability, can provide social assistance. But only help, the main concern for the standard of living lies with each individual, the head of the family.
          4. +1
            6 March 2019 22: 18
            Quote: Mestny
            Who will determine who to chop and who to leave?

            We need a crystal-clear dreamer, he will determine who to leave and who to chop not to die. Whom shall the courts decide to death
      2. 0
        6 March 2019 09: 50
        reduce at times quite real.

        And how do you measure this self-interest? If money, then there will be many more millers in China. Or do they selflessly cut loot, and billions of dollars come by chance?
        1. +3
          6 March 2019 19: 54
          Quote: Nick_R
          If money, then there will be many more millers in China.

          Compare the GDP of China and Russia. And then take an interest in the gap between the rich and the poor. Compare the average salary.
          1. -1
            7 March 2019 00: 03
            There is such a Ginny coefficient, which shows how much income stratification is present in society, the maximum value is 1. So, in capitalist Switzerland it is 0,32, and in "socialist" China 0,47 the European Union recommends keeping this value around 0,3 otherwise the stratification is excessive.
            1. +2
              7 March 2019 07: 00
              Quote: Nick_R
              There is such a Ginny coefficient,

              Why didn’t you cite Russia as an example, but only Switzerland? wink There are other methods for measuring the gap. The median wealth (that is, the amount that 50% of Russians have) is $ 2739, while the arithmetic average is 19, 997 times more. This is a very, very big gap. In China, average wealth is only three times the median. What is the result? GDP per capita in Russia is still higher than in China - 7,3 times. And the median state of a citizen there is 1,19 times greater than ours.
              1. 0
                7 March 2019 22: 16
                Why didn’t you cite Russia as an example, but only Switzerland?

                Because you stated that we need to take pnimer from China. I affirm that China is quite a capitalist state, in which social conditions are often harsher than in the countries of the capitalist west. Therefore, he compared China and Switzerland.
          2. 0
            7 March 2019 14: 54
            Have you ever been to the ordinary, not indicative village of China? Have you been to cities and territories in the west and northwest of China? Have you seen with your own eyes what horror there is?
            1. +1
              7 March 2019 16: 49
              Quote: Andrey VOV
              Have you ever been to the ordinary, not exponential village of china?

              Take a ride through the Russian outback. Ulyanovsk, Saratov region
              1. 0
                8 March 2019 14: 27
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Quote: Andrey VOV
                Have you ever been to the ordinary, not exponential village of china?

                Take a ride through the Russian outback. Ulyanovsk, Saratov region
                - these are the areas not the worst. Already the asphalt in Ulyanovsk is good
                1. 0
                  8 March 2019 14: 42
                  Quote: your1970
                  The asphalt in Ulyanovsk is good

                  Where in particular? belay Enlighten by districts. The M 5 highway was patched up, yes. And if you turn off it?
                  Further - all villages are provided with gas? Obstetric points were closed even in some district centers. To the dentist only in the city, although before the office worked on certain days. Schools were closed, a bus to the neighboring village was made. Works in most villages ZERO.
        2. +2
          6 March 2019 22: 19
          Quote: Nick_R
          And how do you measure this self-interest?

          self-interest is measured by the contempt of the interests of others
    6. +1
      6 March 2019 11: 43
      Prohibited greedy and selfish to occupy leadership positions. Believe me, a lot of honest people in Russia remain.
    7. +3
      6 March 2019 23: 31
      . Rostec, which includes 14 holdings, which includes more than 700 companies and employs 445 thousand people. Of course, it’s difficult to judge it, having access only to external documents, but the corporation’s economic indicators are constantly growing, it is developing, and at the same time it produces such state-of-the-art products as, for example, electronic warfare systems, the same “Khibiny” ( JSC "Concern Radioelectronic Technologies").
      author, I work at one of the holdings and see the situation from the inside. If you are interested, write to me, I can tell you a lot of interesting things.
  2. 0
    6 March 2019 05: 46
    So-so. About ships it turns out better for you.
    Has capitalism become a brake? This is when private companies began to explore space?
    1. +9
      6 March 2019 06: 56
      Quote: Loki
      Capitalism has become a brake?

      Yes, the last article was devoted to this. Links at the bottom of the article
  3. -2
    6 March 2019 06: 10
    By the end of the twentieth century, the socialist economy lost the competition of the capitalist

    After these words, the article can not read anything honest and there will be no objective
    The external and internal enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people did not give them a single quiet year, at first they unleashed two wars, and then they immediately imposed sanctions on them, in every way they did harm. BUT all the same, the communists and their supporters created a State that was in development and for the majority of the people many times better than the Russian Empire and 80 percent of the capitalist countries of the world, except for the parasitic countries of the "golden billion".
    1. +6
      6 March 2019 06: 57
      Quote: tatra
      After these words, the article can not read anything honest and there will be no objective

      Do not read who makes? :)))
      Quote: tatra
      The external and internal enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people did not give them a single peaceful year, first they started two wars, and then immediately imposed sanctions on them, in every possible way harmed

      It is terrible to imagine what sources you studied history
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 09: 06
        For the same as you, with your theories about everything good.
      2. +2
        6 March 2019 10: 36
        Here you, Andrei, try to re-educate Irina alone ... When you are completely tormented, go to yesterday's topic about what Dorenko said about Stalin. Look how many "irin" there is and calm down. Seriously speaking, in my opinion, I just think time should pass.
    2. +1
      6 March 2019 11: 11
      Irina, this is your private point of view. I suppose you were doing well. But the "majority of the people" (including members of the CPSU) somehow calmly parted with the USSR.
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 16: 02
        In fact, I am one of them, otherwise I would work now at some kind of tattered factory, with beautiful posters from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, on an almost dead machine tool and receive a salary of 150 rubles - and lead a gray, depressed existence, without any opportunities for individual development .
    3. +1
      6 March 2019 22: 25
      Quote: tatra
      the economy lost the capitalist competition

      After these words, the article can not read anything honest and there will be no objective

      Economics, this is not exchange news and exchange rates, but open production, new developments, technologies, faculties, universities ... this is the need for specialists, and the prospect!
      The socialist economy is a spaceship onto which workers with crowbars were let go in the form of the Central Committee of the CPSU.
  4. -2
    6 March 2019 06: 14
    the answer has long been known - the paternalistic state
  5. +3
    6 March 2019 06: 20
    the changes proposed by the author of this article concern far not only, and even not so much a change in the form of ownership, as a change in the relationship between “business entities”.
    ....Those. the means of production remain with the ruling class ... It is only necessary to change the relations between its representatives ..
    1. +1
      6 March 2019 06: 27
      And how to do that? Only if an honest Chekist is assigned to each subject.
      1. +7
        6 March 2019 06: 33
        Only if for each subject to put an honest security officer.
        ... And behind this honest Chekist, another more honest Chekist, who would watch for an honest Chekist, who would not conspire with the subject ...
        1. +1
          6 March 2019 06: 35
          That's all and will be employed))))) Rations, titles, pension at 45 hi
          1. +4
            6 March 2019 08: 16
            unemployment can be destroyed at once:) women send home, give birth to children and family deal :)
          2. -4
            6 March 2019 09: 56
            Rations, titles, pension at 45 

            Yeah, but not for long. A maximum of 20 years and a new collapse of Russia. And the next wiseacres with articles Russia 3.0
            Well, some people can’t jump off the spiral, or rather stand up with a rake.
            The USSR survived for so many years solely due to the barbarous exploitation of the peasant, who at the beginning was 90% of the population. And now there are no fools, no one will work for a bright future, and even the Bolshevik terror will not help.
            1. +7
              6 March 2019 10: 54
              Quote: Nick_R
              The USSR survived so many years solely due to the barbaric exploitation of the peasant, who at first was 90% of the population.

              The USSR began by looking at more successful countries and was surprised to find that the peasant population there is not 90%, like ours, but 40-50 percent. And the rest work as engineers, workers, scientists and other urban residents. And for some reason these countries mysteriously manage to produce more cars, locomotives and other equipment. And suddenly I realized that in the current situation, where 90% of the population poking their hands and horses in the ground in the industrial era, there is nothing to do, but there is a place between Mozambique and Nigeria. Since I did not want to go into the status of blacks, and the enchanting result of the WWI clearly showed who would write whom to slaves in the presence of airplanes, guns, tanks and other piece of iron, I had to resolve the problem. Unfortunately, it can only be quickly resolved by forcing people into cities. And the creation of infrastructure and industry. But people weren’t fools then, and communism for building for free did not feel a burning desire, we had to start with the development of the production of barbed wire and cartridges for the escort troops. So it goes. By the way, a feil also happened in those Americas of yours at that time, as a result of which similar methods were applied - labor armies were called. Where industry and infrastructure were built for food. Only snot and moaning about the barbaric exploitation there is something inaudible.
              1. 0
                6 March 2019 16: 10
                Mozambique, Nigeria - it is visible that most of Africa is starving in the ground, then they are picking - only at the exit, nothing happens. In America, with hard workers - at that time, they didn’t talk as well as ours, and the climate there is much better than ours.
      2. +2
        6 March 2019 06: 58
        Quote: Lamatinets
        And how to do it?

        I'll tell you further :)
        Quote: Lamatinets
        Only if for each subject to put an honest security officer.

        The security officers there are not needed at all, the system is completely working without any chekism - unless it is necessary to trace the quality of food products :))))
        1. -1
          6 March 2019 10: 00
          Yes. Except that.
          As always, an annoying little thing will ruin everything.
      3. 0
        6 March 2019 08: 02
        and who will control it?
      4. +1
        6 March 2019 09: 44
        There is such a precedent: business crushing in the interests of the state and nation. Just referring to him is not comme il faut.
    2. +3
      6 March 2019 06: 57
      State Corporation - in fact, state property
      1. +3
        6 March 2019 07: 35
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        State Corporation - in fact, state property

        This is pure fascism. Not the fascism that propagandists wave like a bogeyman, at any rate exposing the opponent, not the one that is equated with Nazism, namely the original Italian fascism. What you wrote here is very similar to him, I think Benito Mussolini would have signed under each of your words.
        1. +2
          6 March 2019 07: 59
          Quote: Puncher
          This is pure fascism.

          Is that very, very early theoretical Italian. In which there was no Nazism, no one-party system, etc.
          1. +3
            6 March 2019 08: 51
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            In which there was no Nazism

            Fascism did not focus on nationality, only on the state, or as you put it
            Love to motherland

            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            no one-party system

            And your theses lead precisely to her. The point in multi-party system is precisely in the difference of views that you have ruled out.
            1. +1
              6 March 2019 16: 13
              National Socialism - is more suitable.
            2. 0
              6 March 2019 17: 03
              Quote: Puncher
              And your abstracts lead to it.

              Do not lead. What for?:)))
        2. -4
          6 March 2019 08: 03
          n-dyayayaya you have my friend porridge in my head .... do not use terms that you do not understand!
    3. +3
      6 March 2019 09: 37
      Quote: parusnik
      It is only necessary to change the relations between its representatives ..

      Mussolini and Hitler dealt with this problem. Building socialism without depriving a private owner of ownership of the means of production by regulating production relations by centralized authorities. Fascism is the reduction of industries in corporations controlled by the state, Nazism is the control of the producer through a single state union. Well, in both cases, the presence of a certain ideology with a binding love for the motherland, collectivism, morality, freedom, equality and other attendant husks.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. 0
          6 March 2019 10: 17
          Quote: Town Hall
          The author is not well-read so that he himself can understand WHAT he carries. And the editors too)

          Why are you doing this. Andrei is a very smart person and reproaching him for not being well-read is more than incorrect.
          He is a Soviet man, like many here.
          1. 0
            6 March 2019 10: 37
            The author is a typical example of a carrier of intuitive thinking. Clever / stupid is from another sphere.


            And yes, I agree. Soviet man. Caveman revanchist)
            1. 0
              6 March 2019 13: 54
              Quote: Town Hall
              And yes, I agree. Soviet man. Caveman revanchist)

              You are overly critical of us. The ideological influence from childhood to adulthood and beyond cannot but leave its mark.
              1. +1
                6 March 2019 14: 08
                I was also born in the USSR and lived in it until adulthood.


                Only in this case it is not related to the analysis of the article. I’m also supposed to be born in the USSR, but this does not prevent you from soberly assessing the set of recipes and the quality of the author’s argument. And where do the legs of state corporations grow and their effectiveness, for example. Or the first peremptory the author’s claim that capitalism has long become obsolete and slows down. As an argument, it refers to a previous article in which, as proof of this thesis, his personal experience with shoes that he once wore for 7 years, but now no, is given, which indicates the inefficiency of capitalism .


                Even common sense is enough to appreciate the precariousness of this design. It is not even necessary to read the same U. Eco and its 14 attributes.
    4. +1
      9 March 2019 12: 58
      Quote: parusnik
      Those. the means of production remain with the ruling class ... It is only necessary to change the relations between its representatives ..

      Yeah, swap chairs at the conservatory. The author is either joking, or really does not understand nichrome. laughing
  6. +8
    6 March 2019 06: 27
    "Budakh laughed awkwardly. - Yes, I see, it's not so easy," he said. "Somehow I never thought about such things before ... It seems that we went over everything. However, - he leaned forward, - there is one more possibility: make people love work and knowledge most of all, so that work and knowledge become the only meaning of their life!
    Yes, we intended to try that too, thought Rumata. Mass hypnoinduction, positive remoralization. Hypnoemitters on three equatorial satellites ... "" It's hard to be a god "..
    1. +4
      6 March 2019 07: 00
      Quote: tasha
      Make it so that most of all people love work and knowledge, so that work and knowledge become the only meaning of their life!

      And why? :))) The proposed system does not require the ideal people. The proposed ideology is precisely an ideology, a direction of development, and by no means a mandatory source code for building a new society.
      1. +4
        6 March 2019 07: 11
        Andrei, do you propose a new ideology within the existing system of power? Systems of already established values ​​of the administrative apparatus at all levels? With all due respect to you, but this is utopia. Need a revolution again
        1. +4
          6 March 2019 07: 25
          Quote: Lamatinets
          Andrei, do you propose a new ideology within the framework of the existing system of power?

          No, the power must be changed, but I wrote a lot about this in previous articles. In short, a revolutionary situation is now brewing, and there is an 2 option - either rebellion, senseless and merciless, that is, a revolution from below, or a revolution from above — for example, Putin’s successor is carrying out powerful structural reforms ... and why not the proposed model? :)))
          1. +3
            6 March 2019 07: 30
            Andrey, and who is Putin’s successor? So who do you see on the emasculated watered Olympus of the Russian Federation? I now live in Kazakhstan, a similar situation, Nazarbayev is old, tired, everything is skidding, but there is no receiver, considering his eldest daughter to be his receiver is stupid. The polit site was cleaned up just like in Russia.
            1. +3
              6 March 2019 08: 00
              Quote: Lamatinets
              Andrew, and who is Putin's receiver?

              Igor, we also sat in the past and thought, and who is Yeltsin's successor? Nobody knew about Putin at all. But for all his flaws, President Oh became much better than Yeltsin
              1. -2
                6 March 2019 08: 26
                But for all its shortcomings, he became much better president than Yeltsin

                You are cunning. The drunk was just a drunk who had reached power, the current one will be more cunning, a liar, to whom the same Drunk is how far.
                1. 0
                  6 March 2019 08: 43
                  Quote: vasiliev yu
                  You are cunning.

                  What is interesting? :)
                  1. +1
                    6 March 2019 08: 46
                    What is interesting? :)

                    That much better. He is the same, only more cunning than a scoundrel.
                    1. 0
                      6 March 2019 09: 53
                      It completely flew out of my head, now the noise will begin everywhere (in telegrams already):
                      We carefully observe the untwisting of the Troika Dialog case. What is important to say here?

                      1. OCCRP is a specious screen for US intelligence, openly funded by USAID and Soros. Designed to “non-political” “illuminate” financial schemes of kleptocratic and dictatorial regimes in third world countries (this is about the question of the place of the Russian Federation in the current world order).

                      2. Accordingly, no OCCRP would be able to "drop" so deeply into Vardanyan’s affairs, where the devil himself could not be found, without the help of American financial institutions and special services. Only they can somehow track the direction of the movement of money in the “offshore cluster”, consisting of 76 companies.

                      3. Roldugin follows Vardanyan with the train, and Putin himself follows him. Hitting him personally is an extreme option, it’s a big policy, but the Troika’s affair provides practically unlimited opportunities for striking at the “closest circle”, which still faces the task of “passing a cartridge”.

                      4. The OCCRP investigation has been prepared for a very long time, because from the year 2008 on, literally EVERYONE has been aware that Troika is a professional laundry, spending crazy money on various projects and corporate parties. However, the trump card in the form of Vardanyan was then held up his sleeve. An important question that analysts must now answer: “Why did they fuck NOW ?!”

                      5. In the same 2008, Troika was bought by Sberbank (more precisely, its investment unit is Sberbank CIB). Have the principles of her work changed from this? Of course not. And the US senators will consider the same. And this already puts the key bank of the Russian Federation under the threat of sanctions.

                      6. Senators do not need much to disperse, because in the schemes of the Troika the magic surname Magnitsky appears. It was through offshore Vardanyan that $ 180 million was withdrawn, which Magnitsky went to the trail of, which cost him freedom, and then his life.

                      7. Another vulnerable “risk group” is RAO UES managers, who sit tight on “financial services” from Vardanyan and actually control the Russian energy system. In such matters, Chubais could not but be smeared personally. The “unsinkable villain” of the domestic economy is the backbone of the entire Russian political system, blows to which can be heard with a loud echo in every home in the country.

                      Conclusion: reckless Russian elite once again indicated its place. She was shown that all this mouse fuss of ex-Komsomol members is under control: they rob their own country only because they are ALLOWED to do this. And at any convenient moment, those who bother can be nipped in two counts.

                      'Thoughts-Not-Thoughts'.
                      1. 0
                        6 March 2019 10: 01
                        Continued from there:
                        The figure of Chubais has not yet really emerged in the Vardanyan case (http://t.me/mislinemisli/3870), despite the fact that many are waiting for it after it was directly said that Troika top managers of RAO were laundered EEC. Chubais couldn’t get away from ties with Vardanyan, and not a year had passed since a joint project was announced with fanfare - the purchase of the third stage of the Romanov Dvor business center with an area of ​​8 thousand square meters. m. The deal to buy a building within walking distance from the Kremlin cost $ 50-60 million. Does this mean that Chubais is “untouchable” for the West, as is Shuvalov, who constantly “bounces” from sanctions? Perhaps his time has not come yet.
                      2. +1
                        6 March 2019 10: 14
                        Quote: vasiliev yu
                        'Thoughts-Not-Thoughts'.

                        If you aren’t in the know, then the United States has never stopped anyone from robbing their people. While this of course does not hurt the interests of the United States.
                      3. 0
                        6 March 2019 10: 37
                        I'm actually talking about Troika Dialog and the consequences, which includes the Panama dossier.
              2. +1
                6 March 2019 09: 12
                I agree, but, everything repeats again, until Putin is rigidly moved, he will sit in power, and we will wait for that difficult situation in 1999? Just because Putin and his entourage do not want to give up power, no matter what. Am I somehow not seeing some significant figure surrounded by the same Putin, or are we looking for some kind of transitional figure? For example, Sergei Ivanov.
            2. +4
              6 March 2019 08: 28
              Quote: Lamatinets
              Andrey, and who is Putin’s successor? That's who you see on the emasculated watered Olympus of the Russian Federation


              Well, you say that. We have an integral Resident Condom in Russia ... here is a filthy autofill ... Presidential Reserve. And personally, Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev is. We are calm for the future. A whole cohort of potential successors that the people love and respect. To muscle cramps.
              1. +1
                6 March 2019 09: 54
                Here it is not necessary to mock))) I already choked hi
            3. -1
              6 March 2019 09: 50
              Well, found among the Leninist talkers - utopian people of the Cause.
            4. -1
              6 March 2019 16: 19
              Anyway, Putin will have a receiver from the GRU or the FSB - dude well-worn in all world graters, both economic and political, with extensive experience.
          2. 0
            6 March 2019 09: 39
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Quote: Lamatinets
            Andrei, do you propose a new ideology within the framework of the existing system of power?

            No, the power must be changed, but I wrote a lot about this in previous articles. In short, a revolutionary situation is now brewing, and there is an 2 option - either rebellion, senseless and merciless, that is, a revolution from below, or a revolution from above — for example, Putin’s successor is carrying out powerful structural reforms ... and why not the proposed model? :)))


            I agree one hundred percent, there are only two of these options, in the first - Russia will finish. With the Second - there is a chance to rise again from the ashes.

            And under Yeltsin, neither a successor nor the possibility of a change of course was visible either. However, both the successor and the change of course occurred.

            We will believe in the best.

            And I like 2.0, believe me, a lot of people will support it, especially from those who still plow for the benefit of both themselves and the country. And with the indicated stories, they will strive, and now I know young specialists who have worked themselves for days and completed objects.
      2. +2
        6 March 2019 09: 29
        The proposed ideology is precisely ideology
        The road to the clouds? smile It is high time to build a more or less intelligible picture of the state and society in which we want to live, not procrastinating abstract "Happiness for all" or "Let's go back to where" Everything was "".
        You wrote your vision WHERE. I will wait to continue. I wonder HOW? wink

        In childhood, a good impression was left by the "Moonlight Rainbow" dilogy by Sergei Pavlov. I thought we would live like this. Need to re-read ..
  7. +3
    6 March 2019 06: 47
    But the article is a plus!
    The author expressed his opinion.
    We all want to live in an ideal world that will meet our desires. And if these visions do not coincide with the opinions of others, then on Earth there are 7 ards of aborigines and each has its own bziki smile
    Even roughly speaking God does not fulfill all desires, because chaos will begin ...
    Bravo, Andrey Nikolaevich hi
    1. 0
      6 March 2019 10: 04
      Quote: Rurikovich
      But the article is a plus!
      The author expressed his opinion.

      And plus for expressing an opinion, or for the fact that this opinion coincides with yours?
  8. +7
    6 March 2019 07: 03
    Much of what the author writes about is not actually new, but a well-forgotten old, for example, the same theory of "convergence" that was voiced somewhere in the 70s. Of course, the author uses the experience of recent years, which is actually reinforces his views. The fact that people think is great. But the fact that academics, a member of the corps and other scientists do not offer or promote anything, but are content with contemplating what is happening and consuming the benefits that they have, along the way complaining about their lack, is a fact.
  9. -3
    6 March 2019 07: 11
    First, the fact is that the USSR 2.0 should become a socially-oriented state, whose economy is aimed at increasing the well-being of all its citizens (and not their individual representatives).

    And finally, thirdly, the fact is that the changes proposed by the author of this article concern far not only, and not so much, changes in the form of ownership as changes in the relationship between “business entities”.

    All this already exists: in Norway.
  10. +2
    6 March 2019 07: 16
    The author already has a program, it remains only to create and register a party and go ahead to the polls.
    1. +2
      6 March 2019 09: 35
      rotmistr60 (Gennady)
      The author already has a program

      I do not see the program yet. There are theses that need critical consideration. True, in these theses there is much valuable, especially in the economic part. The ideological part is more complicated.
      it remains only to create and register a party and go ahead to the polls.

      After additional study, the program will be.
      Approximately such a party is very necessary in the political field of Russia and it is highly desirable to create it. good
  11. +5
    6 March 2019 07: 27
    The ideas of utopian socialists to the masses!
    What is all this Andrew? Well you understand that it is not interesting to anyone from those who have the tools and the ability to build a social system.
    And the silly hope that the "state" is able to effectively regulate something. It cannot and never can. The state is always a stupid official who was not useful either in business, or in science, or in other industries, but having received power, it swells with vanity and its importance. Wherever an official breaks in, a mess and corruption begins. So it's all nonsense. A capitalist society in which power is regulated by an active society has shown the greatest efficiency. Where society is apathetic, Russia, Zimbabwe, etc.
    1. +3
      6 March 2019 08: 02
      Quote: Puncher
      What is all this Andrew? Well you understand that it is not interesting to anyone from those who have the tools and the ability to build a social system.

      So what from that? At least, we need to talk about it.
      Quote: Puncher
      And the silly hope that the "state" is able to effectively regulate something.

      I cited the example of the military, nuclear and space industry of the USSR. It turns out - can.
      1. +5
        6 March 2019 09: 05
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        So what from that? At least, we need to talk about it.

        In the State Duma. The rest is empty.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        I cited the example of the military, nuclear and space industry of the USSR. It turns out - can.

        And where did you get that smelled of efficiency?
        Military industry: the clumsy defense industry dictating its will to the USSR Armed Forces, cost gigantic funds that destroyed the country. At the same time, the characteristics of weapons lost to their direct competitors, which was confirmed by all major wars.
        Nuclear industry: one Chernobyl is worth. This is not remembering your native Chelyabinsk region.
        Space industry: similarly to the military-industrial complex, the eater of public funds, most of the projects ended in nothing, money wasted. Almost all attempts to get beyond the moon ended in failure.
        All of the above you were viable in a country closed to the whole world. Want to repeat it?
        1. +2
          6 March 2019 10: 06
          I strongly agree with you.
        2. +1
          6 March 2019 17: 07
          Quote: Puncher
          And where did you get that smelled of efficiency?

          The answer is very simple. From the fact that the atom, space and weapons, we very successfully sold abroad from the very end of the USSR. That is, in terms of the construction of nuclear power plants, commercial space launches and the supply of sophisticated military equipment, we fit into the world market pretty well.
          Quote: Puncher
          Nuclear industry: one Chernobyl nuclear power plant is worth something.

          There was a classic mistake of operation, what does the industry have to do with it?
        3. 0
          7 March 2019 15: 02
          Bullshit about weapons, people are fighting on technology, and what kind of fighting Arabs do we, alas, if you mean the example of losses?
      2. 0
        6 March 2019 09: 13
        Andrey, you’re right, we must speak.
    2. 0
      6 March 2019 15: 06
      Quote: Puncher
      The ideas of utopian socialists to the masses!
      What is all this Andrew? Well you understand that it is not interesting to anyone from those who have the tools and the ability to build a social system.
      And the silly hope that the "state" is able to effectively regulate something. It cannot and never can. The state is always a stupid official who was not useful either in business, or in science, or in other industries, but having received power, it swells with vanity and its importance. Wherever an official breaks in, a mess and corruption begins. So it's all nonsense. A capitalist society in which power is regulated by an active society has shown the greatest efficiency. Where society is apathetic, Russia, Zimbabwe, etc.

      -------------------------------
      For example, all the Socialist Revolutionaries (Socialist-Revolutionaries) and the Mensheviks in the 1917 revolution, when the question of the significance and role of the state just arose in all its greatness, arose practically as a matter of immediate action and, moreover, action on a massive scale, everyone slipped down immediately and entirely to the petty-bourgeois theory of "reconciliation" of classes by the "state." Countless resolutions and articles by politicians of both of these parties are thoroughly saturated with this philistine and philistine theory of "reconciliation."
      I don't want to seem like a teacher, but the whole idea of ​​Andrey from Chelyabinsk boiled down to this. Better to read Lenin's work State and Revolution again. There is actually nothing to discuss.
  12. +6
    6 March 2019 07: 31
    Well, in general, I agree with the author. But we must not forget about the human factor. An example of this is at least the first comment. The difficulty is that it is easier to cultivate bad qualities in a person, as an example of "a beer on a sofa", but few would agree to work. I do not mean work for money, but something like a subbotnik. Although, for example, Zadornov not only humored from the stage, but also gathered people for subbotniks.
    We didn’t end up here because we were called into capitalism, they are still afraid of this word. They told us that they would keep all the socialist benefits, but everyone would have a car, everyone would go abroad. Well, don’t forget about jeans and sausage. However, we were deceived, lured like sheep to a slaughterhouse. And now they are urging us not to rock the fence so that we do not escape from them.
  13. -3
    6 March 2019 07: 32
    Capitalism / socialism is a false alternative. Currently, the division is along the line of tolerance / totalitarianism ("capitalism", by the way, is the economic expression of tolerance). Russian civilization is brought up on totalitarianism, and they want to force us to be tolerant. This is the main point of the ideological and geopolitical struggle.
    1. -1
      6 March 2019 10: 11
      Exactly.
      A new civilization is born, based on the maximum possible volume and ways of exchanging information. In principle, it does not imply restrictions and isolated communities. Everything that is happening in the Western community is just the very beginning, the first hints. These are the first results of TECHNOLOGIES, not religious concepts, as has always been the case in all known history.
      And we, as always, cannot understand this in any way.
  14. +1
    6 March 2019 07: 49
    “In a capitalist society, this is money.” - without this, only socialism will remain and “crossbreeding” will not work.
    socialism has even triumphed, we still live in the reserves of the USSR and capitalism has been saved for as many as 40 years. If it were not for the collapse of the USSR, the crisis of capitalism that we are witnessing today happened in the 90s.
    The USSR lost in another, in the selection of personnel, starting with Khrushchev ((((
    1. -3
      6 March 2019 10: 13
      Who cares what the USSR lost.
      Obviously, there was more than one reason; there were a great many of them.
      Any system has enemies. If the system is strong and viable - it copes with them and thrives. if not, it dies.
      Whatever the reasons, the system turned out to be weaker.
      Why again step on the same rake ????
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 10: 27
        Socialism is more sustainable. Despite the mass of lies about socialism, we are discussing it. Sanders in the USA speaks of socialism, in his understanding, he would have won.
        Socialism is bad only for 1% who owns 80% of everything. This 1% spends part of its resources on the discrediting of socialism.
        Today, the United States does not have money for the middle class. If in the USA they told us how we lived in the USSR they would have arranged a revolution with red flags.)))
        1. -2
          6 March 2019 10: 46
          Yes, no matter how they talked about him.
          He lose. So the opposing systems were more stable and stronger.
          The question is precisely this - why? What is stronger?
          1. -1
            6 March 2019 10: 55
            In the summer of 1941, the USSR also lost?
        2. -1
          6 March 2019 11: 28
          Quote: hhhhhhh
          Today, the United States does not have money for the middle class. If in the USA they told us how we lived in the USSR they would have arranged a revolution with red flags.)))

          That was really funny now! Socialism is more stable because you are discussing it now ?! Let me remind you that we had not just one USSR proper, but a whole socialist camp. Moreover, in the socialist countries of Eastern Europe, people lived something much better than our native Soviet citizens. AND?! As soon as the USSR weakened, it stopped subsidizing the process of building communism and everyone fled in all directions to control it. Is it so resilient? Is it from a good life that little people scattered? Your discussion remains from socialism in the world. But I very much ask you not to talk about Maoist China with state capitalism, or, in other words, a cheap shock capitalist factory under the leadership of the CPC and Koreans with their medieval Juche who have long thrown out the works of Marx and Lenin in addition from their libraries. Even the last stronghold of communism Cuba officially refused to build communism, albeit under the leadership of the communists. Isn't that funny to you yourself, friend of Pozharsky? Since the time of original sin, part of the adventurers from the human race, denying God, are building and building what they have lost - heaven on earth. The wreckage of such a "revolutionary paradise" is also historically traditionally buried beneath them builders and millions who just happened to be in the wrong place. Your utopia is that you naturally want to go to Paradise. You are trying to build heaven, not reach it. Just forget, Paradise has absolutely no earthly address and it is not the class struggle that leads there, but good, mercy, mutual assistance, decency, self-sacrifice, love! All this should not be written on the red banners and banners carried by the inspired proletarian masses. All this should be in the form of individual actions of each individual person walking this path.
          1. -1
            6 March 2019 11: 37
            Do you live better under capitalism? Medvedev has already talked about loans for education, then he will talk about loans for treatment. Pensions will be canceled.
            "kindness, mercy, mutual assistance, decency, love!" - are you talking about capitalism? 25 years was not enough for you to see the difference.))))
            "denying God" - which God? catalytic pedophiles, Muslim fundamentalists, orthodox shape-shifters (in 1917 they rejoiced at the abdication of Nicholas Kr, and today he is a saint)?
            The Crusades were with the name of God. Which god is right ???
            Marx is the time to re-read. He talked about this crisis of capitalism.
            1. 0
              6 March 2019 12: 17
              Why are you telling me you ?! This is called rudeness. Do you know about this? Are you Kozma rushing to power? With that kind of upbringing?
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              kindness, mercy, mutual assistance, decency, love! "- are you talking about capitalism?

              No, I'm talking about very good human qualities. Everything else you wrote to comment is not possible.
              1. -1
                6 March 2019 12: 26
                "Why are you telling me you ?!" firstly, this is the Internet and everything is on you, and secondly, I have been on the Internet since 1998, I can afford to speak on you with everyone. Thirdly, learn Russian before teaching others)))). "You" is capitalized, "you" is capitalized, it is plural.
                "Are you striving for power?" - I have already.
                "No, I'm talking about very good human qualities." - Do they bring money?
                "it is not possible to comment." - education is not enough?))))
                1. -1
                  6 March 2019 12: 40
                  Quote: hhhhhhh
                  I have been on the Internet since 1998, I can afford to talk to you with everyone.

                  Try to go out and look around ... Can you get a job? Communist guys, such adherents of the idea of ​​Marxism - Leninism are discrediting more clearly than any liberals! laughing
                  1. +2
                    6 March 2019 12: 59
                    I am an employer. Why should I look for work)))) I am a class of petty bourgeoisie according to Marx-Lenin)))
                    I do not care in what World my children and granddaughter will live.)))
                    If we were fools in our youth and "Yura, we are all about ...", then maybe now we will wiser.

                    Can you say that Lenin introduced the new doctrine of Marx? What is the idea of ​​Marxism-Leninism.
                    capitalism is clear, Quotation from Marx “Provide capital with 10% profit, and capital agrees to any use, at 20% it becomes lively, at 50% it is positively ready to break its head, at 100% it violates all human laws, at 300% there isn’t a crime for which he would not risk daring, at least under pain of the gallows ”
                    Marx is wrong?
                2. -1
                  6 March 2019 12: 41
                  Quote: hhhhhhh
                  Thirdly, learn Russian before teaching others)))). "You" is capitalized, "you" is capitalized, it is plural.
                  "Are you striving for power?" - I have already.

                  Really no comment.
                  1. 0
                    6 March 2019 16: 35
                    Know Russian is an honor !!!! Not everyone is allowed.
            2. 0
              6 March 2019 12: 21
              And why do you, Kozma, not answer about the question that was posed to you quite normally? Why be rude and poke? So why is there only talk left of socialism? Where did the social camp go - CMEA, the Warsaw Pact, countries along the path of building socialism? Are Cuban communists really enemies of the people? Then what kind of people?
              1. -2
                6 March 2019 12: 34
                Are you on the Internet or where? Here everything is on you, so it happened among equals. Only a few claim my privileges. On the Internet "you" must be earned.
                Now on to the case. The USSR and the social camp now live better than in the 70s and the beginning of the 80s? Growth rates, access to education, medicine, quality products? Yes or no? Just look at the birth rate and it becomes clear.
                The Soviet Union collapsed from the inside and this is a long question. Now the main thing is what will happen after capitalism. The USSR is not perfect, but it wasn’t killed for food.
            3. +1
              6 March 2019 16: 24
              It’s just that it’s a great life, you’re your own boss, do what you want - yes there are disadvantages: corruption, gouging of officials, etc., but these problems can be solved.
  15. +4
    6 March 2019 07: 51
    Quote: A. Chelyabinsk
    By the end of the twentieth century, the socialist economy lost the capitalist competition.

    So there! belay

    What competition if target vectors are different? Capitalism is a paradise for the individual, socialism is a paradise for all, and by the way, with the destruction of the USSR, the number of "individual" exceeded the same monsters that in the West, incl. judging by the Forbes list, by how many "ours" there are, the USSR defeated the West.
    1. -3
      6 March 2019 10: 15
      Some disagree with this definition.
      For example, it sounds like this: "capitalism is heaven for some, socialism is hell for all."
      "We wanted there to be no poor, and you wanted there to be no rich"
    2. -2
      6 March 2019 10: 28
      all of our forbes are relatives of the Central Committee of the CPSU
  16. +4
    6 March 2019 07: 59
    The first thing to do is to somehow name the society of the future

    The first thing to do is determine the goals of production in this very society of the future.

    The goal of capitalist production is to profit by systematically plundering those who create the surplus product.
    The goal of socialist production is to ensure complete prosperity and free comprehensive development of all members of society.

    It is impossible to combine these goals, as it is impossible to go in different directions at the same time - the pants will tear.
    1. -2
      6 March 2019 08: 09
      Quote: McAr
      The first thing to do ...

      That's right, but again, no one is talking about giving management knowledge to the people, which means that again there will be those who, having this knowledge and by hiding this knowledge from the people, will appoint exorbitantly high salaries, again there will be equality and injustice will flourish ...

      I already laid out one cut from one Korean series. Spread the second - in my opinion in the subject. It says about the introduction of a new alphabet, but if by alphabet we mean knowledge of management ... in general, look (the first part on my YouTube channel):

      1. +3
        6 March 2019 08: 19
        Quote: Boris55
        Everything is correct, but again no one talks about giving management knowledge to the people

        Management knowledge? So the Bolsheviks talked about this all the way. Remember Lenin's undistorted quote about the cook. Remember the Stalinist plan to reduce the working day to 5 hours, so that people have time to master management knowledge.

        The first condition for gaining management knowledge is the availability of time. And in our country, one of the candidates in the elections before last proposed a 12-hour working day.

        With an 8-hour working day, it is practically impossible to systematically allocate time for obtaining management knowledge, at least in theory.

        Quote: Boris55
        will appoint exorbitantly high salaries, again there will be inequality and injustice will flourish ...

        Lenin issued a prescription a century ago: an official should receive a salary at the level of the average of the wages of the proletariat.

        But in capitalism, this recipe does not work.

        PS. Video not available.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. 0
            6 March 2019 09: 22
            В Classmates:
            First part: https://ok.ru/video/964062808828
            The second part: https://ok.ru/video/964062087932
        2. -3
          6 March 2019 10: 22
          Quote: McAr
          Lenin issued a prescription a century ago: an official should receive a salary at the level of the average of the wages of the proletariat.

          So he will not work. What for? What is the incentive?
          When comrade Stalin understood this. Therefore, the incentive was such - giant bonuses, personal luxury apartments, summer residences, special distribution of products, cars with a driver, housemaids and cooks.
          But the actual "salary" - yes, it was about the level of the worker.
          This is such a form of slavery, don’t you?
          The owner appreciates his slave - he dresses elegantly and feeds him for the invaluable services of the latter.
          But, maybe at any moment - on a whim, to change the situation, sell it. Or just kill.
          With the "salary" everything is not so, to put it mildly. He who has such can do with him as he wishes.
          Not always, with a lot of reservations, etc. But such a system is much more "honest" than the one described above - with a stimulus outside salaries.
          1. +2
            6 March 2019 10: 56
            Quote: Mestny
            So he will not work. What for? What is the incentive?

            Then, so that there are fewer parasites — you don’t want to serve the people, you are welcome to the open-hearth furnace or to the helm of the combine.

            Quote: Mestny
            When comrade Stalin understood this. Therefore, the incentive was such - giant bonuses, personal luxury apartments, summer residences, special distribution of products, cars with a driver, housemaids and cooks.

            No need to whistle about anything in the tooth with your foot.

            Prizes, apartments, cottages and other goodies under Stalin were granted for services, and not for the rank. That is the key difference.

            Quote: Mestny
            But the actual "salary" - yes, it was about the level of the worker.
            This is such a form of slavery, don’t you?

            No, I can’t find it. Do not like to serve the people - no one forces. You can even take a patent and how curcule to mess around on your farm. Or do you not know that the individual farmers survived until 1991?
            1. +1
              6 March 2019 14: 44
              You are funny.
              In the course, of course.
              if you don’t want to serve the people, you are welcome to the open-hearth furnace or to the helm of the combine.

              Yes, for these, from state dachas and apartments with a housekeeper, the Matrenovskaya stove is a punishment.
              Quote: McAr
              dachas and other buns under Stalin were granted for their merits, and not for their rank.

              Well of course. And the rank was granted - lo and behold - according to his deserts.
              All this to you is not just "given for merit". You could use this as long as you have these same merits (read - as long as you are considered deserved).
              And how he ceased to be deserved - went out.
    2. +1
      6 March 2019 08: 16
      Quote: McAr
      It is impossible to combine these goals, as it is impossible to go in different directions at the same time - the pants will tear.

      Nevertheless, NEP existed in the USSR, and nothing terrible happened because of this.
      1. -2
        6 March 2019 08: 45
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Nevertheless, NEP existed in the USSR, and nothing terrible happened because of this.

        The fact of the matter is that a lot of scary has happened.

        1. The NEP has outlived itself. By 1928, i.e. in just 7 years. USSR 2.0 is also planned for seven years?

        2. Corruption flourished. And this is a blow to ideology, when the party bureaucrat takes a bribe from the non-partisan.

        Since one of the main goals of the NEP was to boost agriculture, the relief provided by the authorities led to the emergence of a large stratum of wealthy peasants. That is what “bite” officials turned their eyes to. The taxation of wealthy peasants was their new source of enrichment. For a good jackpot in their own pocket, they could exempt a rich peasant from taxing them by writing him to the poor. And many took advantage of this, since the bribe was less than the tax amount, and the “security certificate” bought in this way helped the prosperous peasant to save his money and increase his fortune from the encroachments of tax inspectors. Wealthy peasants were united in cooperatives. The provincial committee of the RCP (B.) Took bribes from wealthy peasants in the form of ... a loan! Almost all provincial party organizations were debtors to peasant cooperatives. This dependence of party structures on rural producers, JV Stalin called the kulak-party bow.

        This is not to say that all communists were bribe takers. So, in total, over 150 thousand people (every 4-5th communist) were excluded from the party in the first year of the NEP, of which only 1% was for bribes and abuse. In 1922, bodies of the Cheka - GPU arrested 20 people for malfeasance. Similarly, all the other years of the NEP.

        Corruption in party and government bodies had a double negative effect. Firstly, it corrupted and destroyed the young system of public service from within, thereby creating a threat to the state and economic security of the country.
        And secondly, it entailed general social consequences that undermined the legal consciousness of all segments of the population, instilled immorality, oblivion of the interests of the country and public service.
        1. 0
          6 March 2019 17: 11
          Quote: McAr
          The fact of the matter is that a lot of scary has happened.
          1. NEP has outlived itself

          Error #1. NEP did not outlive itself, but it turned out that NEP was unable to provide the industrialization required by the USSR, and therefore it was abandoned. In fact, it was not necessary, since industrialization could be done only by limiting the NEP. In general, the child was poured with water.
          Quote: McAr
          Since one of the main goals of the NEP was to boost agriculture

          In fact of the matter. It was necessary to ensure a large influx of population into the cities, into industry from the village, and the NEP did not encourage it. But today we have a completely different situation.
      2. +2
        6 March 2019 08: 55
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Nevertheless, NEP existed in the USSR, and nothing terrible happened because of this.

        NEP is the first attempt to return to the old order, the thaw is the second, perestroika is the last, which was crowned with success.
      3. +2
        6 March 2019 09: 10
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Nevertheless, NEP existed in the USSR, and nothing terrible happened because of this.

        Because they did not give a long life. NEP is the same capitalism, if it had not been strangled, then a class of rich and enterprising people would have appeared, for which mythical communism is simply simply not interesting.
        1. -1
          6 March 2019 10: 18
          communism is by no means mythical .... it’s just not what they tell us, communism is what any government, liberal or communist, is afraid of losing power and privileges, because any loss is someone’s find ...., inequality was and will be ..., the translation of the class struggle into the constructive development of society, someday the last - will be the first ....
          1. 0
            6 March 2019 11: 46
            Quote: wooja
            ... inequality has been and will be ...

            Inequality - what? In an unfair pay?

            As soon as the people take possession of the management knowledge that is hidden from him, the elite will not be able to rule as she pleases and to appoint whatever salary she wants. Two links to the videos in my post above - just about that.

            Quote: wooja
            ... the translation of the class struggle into the constructive development of society ...

            Not when there are classes, in the sense that you invest in it, there will be no constructive development of society in line with God's providence! In ancient Russia, who lived according to communal principles, everyone could do business according to his strength. Old Believers adhere to the same principle. From each according to his ability, to each according to his work.
            1. -1
              6 March 2019 12: 04
              justice is different for everyone, inequality is a common occurrence, abilities are different, origin ... laziness, luck, industriousness, vanity. the community principle is a matter of strength ..., already segregation, the commune is also a community only in other languages, unfortunately property stratification is inevitable, as well as envy
              1. 0
                6 March 2019 12: 22
                Quote: wooja
                justice is different for everyone,

                Justice - this is the result of mutual satisfaction of the contracting parties.
                Abilities everyone is different and in a just society there will always be work for the strengths and abilities of each for the benefit of all.
                Property stratification - This is one of the elements of the slave concept. The set of necessary for the biological survival of man is the same for both rich and poor. Everything else is the result of a dominant ideology.
                Envy - This is one of these deadly sins, cultivated by all the media.

                The meaning of envy and property stratification is to make slaves work sutra until night, without days off and holidays.
                1. 0
                  6 March 2019 12: 35
                  slogan thinking, blindness ... Punishment of a criminal - you can’t call it mutual satisfaction of the parties ... a smart leader is an infrequent phenomenon ... slavery is not a concept - it is a reality ...., unfortunately, the time of your beloved grandchildren has passed and the time of God's slaves has come .. ., envy-- poison in large doses and the engine of progress in the right .... Slavery and robbery are the most effective methods of production and enrichment, just their forms change ....., but not efficiency
                  1. 0
                    6 March 2019 12: 45
                    Quote: wooja
                    Punishment of a criminal - you can’t call it mutual satisfaction of the parties.

                    The offender was the first to violate the agreement and therefore these agreements do not apply to him.

                    Quote: wooja
                    smart leader infrequent phenomenon

                    I corrected my text in the post above.

                    Quote: wooja
                    the time has come for God's servants

                    Nothing lasts forever under the moon and it will pass

                    Quote: wooja
                    slavery is not a concept - it is a reality

                    Your poor children, your unhappy old age ...

                    Quote: wooja
                    envy-- poison in large doses and the engine of progress in the right ..

                    Once again - envy, regardless of its quantity - is mortal sin. Envy is not an engine of progress - it is a desire to have what others and ultimately lead people to the path of crime and to wars between neighbors and between countries.
                    1. 0
                      6 March 2019 12: 55
                      crime is an inevitable part of being, everything flows, everything changes ..., former murderers and robbers become noble rulers, noble rulers turn into bloody tyrants, thieves write laws, pointless debate ...., read Ovid ....
                      1. -1
                        6 March 2019 14: 15
                        Quote: wooja
                        crime is an inevitable part of being

                        Crime is the reaction of the people to the unfair structure of society. They also steal strangers from strangers. His and his do not steal.

                        About justice and contractability.
                        The problem is that the upper classes do not want to agree, and the lower classes are not able to agree even among themselves. This system in Russia has been improved for over two thousand years.
          2. 0
            6 March 2019 13: 57
            Quote: wooja
            communism is what any government fears

            Communism is an absolute power. Climbing into all spheres of public relations, not allowing you to take a step to the left or right. Check out the KP manifesto first.
            1. +1
              6 March 2019 21: 36
              Quote: Puncher
              Communism is an absolute power. Climbing into all spheres of public relations, not allowing you to take a step to the left or right.

              State and state power exist as long as there are classes. Communism is a classless society in which state functions will be transferred to public organizations, and laws will turn into customs.
    3. 0
      6 March 2019 09: 44
      Quote: McAr
      It is impossible to combine these goals, as it is impossible to go in different directions at the same time - the pants will tear.

      In China, they combined these goals and are developing very effectively. It can be said to be extremely effective. fellow
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 10: 20
        Quote: populist
        In China, they combined these goals and are developing very effectively.

        In China, ordinary capitalism is simply instead of a classic dictator like Pinochet, there is a communist party whose charter is nothing more than a screen. No one there believes in communism and builds it only within the framework of their own pockets.
        1. +1
          6 March 2019 10: 45
          No, the CCP is never a screen. This is the force that directs private business in the right direction, in the interests of the country and nation. And you can fill your pocket in China only if your business is useful for the state.
          1. 0
            6 March 2019 13: 58
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            This is the force that directs private business in the right direction, in the interests of the country and nation.

            And what does communism have to do with it? Remind the main thesis of communism about the right to the means of production?
            1. 0
              6 March 2019 14: 10
              Well, so Lenin said "Marxism is not a dogma, but a guide to action."
        2. 0
          6 March 2019 21: 38
          Quote: Puncher
          In China, ordinary capitalism

          China is now in a transition period from capitalism to communism. In the USSR, this period is considered from 1917 to 1936.
      2. 0
        6 March 2019 11: 03
        Quote: populist
        Quote: McAr
        It is impossible to combine these goals, as it is impossible to go in different directions at the same time - the pants will tear.

        In China, they combined these goals and are developing very effectively. It can be said to be extremely effective. fellow

        You, I and the Chinese themselves are observing only one of the phases of the process. What everyone will come to no one knows, including the Chinese themselves. Something is under construction, and now nobody will be able to predict how it will look in its finished form.

        History knows many examples when something developed "extremely efficiently" and ended in complete failure. And vice versa.
        1. 0
          6 March 2019 12: 02
          Here, with each word you agree.
          History knows many examples when something developed "extremely efficiently" and ended in complete failure

          Little of; everything ends in failure, but this is not a reason to abandon effective development. Yes, no one will refuse, with or without us sad
  17. -1
    6 March 2019 08: 21
    the socialist economy lost the capitalist competition.
    - this is not true. Therefore, it’s not interesting to read further.
    1. 0
      6 March 2019 08: 27
      Quote: paul3390
      this is not true

      This is exactly the case, and in order to understand this, it is enough to work with the same Soviet statistical reference books. But it is easier, of course, not to do this and soar in illusions.
      Quote: paul3390
      And therefore - further and not interesting to read.

      Who makes you? :)))
      1. +1
        6 March 2019 09: 12
        For thirty years you cannot devour and plunder the heritage of the USSR, despite all efforts. And no less persistently continue to repeat the mantra about the type of economically backward Union. Where is the logic ??
        1. 0
          6 March 2019 16: 39
          We have the legacy of the USSR: the polluted ecology, enterprises - the depreciation of fixed assets of which is 60 - 70 percent or more, the absence of any competitive civilian products, backward industry and electronics - this was in the 90s, the beginning of the 2000s - now the situation is different, but the solution to all of the above took a lot of money, time and still, problems in some areas have not been solved - one of them is the construction of new roads and gasification of villages throughout the country, as well as the replacement of communications throughout the country, which since the 60s, who did not deal only with this, trillions of rubles and 10 years of work are needed at least.
      2. +2
        6 March 2019 09: 34
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        This is exactly so, and in order to understand this, it is enough to properly work with the same Soviet statistical reference books.
        Why only Soviet, not Chinese? Is China a socialist economy? Did she lose to someone?
        1. 0
          6 March 2019 16: 40
          In China - the usual market.
        2. +2
          6 March 2019 17: 18
          Quote: Alex_59
          Is China a socialist economy?

          No, market. But 5-summer plans developed by the CCP :))))) As a matter of fact, this will probably be the closest to the Keynesian model and infinitely far from our monetary idio ... no, this word will not be missed
          1. -1
            6 March 2019 19: 59
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            No, market.
            I think many Chinese people will disagree with you in this interpretation. Jack Ma might agree, yes. And Yang Wei may not agree. On the other hand, what if they have a socialist economy, but what was in the USSR was not socialist? Well, like our modern capitalism, which seems to be formally "yes", but in reality it is not at all "yes". Where is the sample, the starting point? Why is the Chinese variety of socialism not dying, but the Soviet one? Maybe it's not about socialism or capitalism as such? You accuse capitalism of a dead end, but forgive me in the UAE, this capitalism is so flourishing that it is just right to consider it the best form of business in the universe. But you’ll say - the conditions of the UAE are so specific that this is not a typical example, you cannot draw conclusions from it. But the USSR was also a unique not typical example, was it not? 1/6 of the land, in an extremely harsh northern climate (the population of Canada, Sweden and Norway is ridiculously small in comparison with us, in such "north" no one like us lives on planet Earth) with unusually difficult initial conditions and unprecedented subsequent pressure from outside (WWII, cold war). Is this a pure experiment? Is it possible to draw a conclusion about the inferiority of the socialist model of development based on this clearly not typical example alone?
            1. +1
              6 March 2019 21: 30
              Quote: Alex_59
              I think many Chinese will disagree with you in this interpretation. Jack Ma may agree, yes. And Young Wei may not agree. On the other hand, what if they have precisely a socialist economy, and what was not socialist in the USSR?

              Then this is a debate about the terms, but I use the generally accepted interpretation :))))
              Quote: Alex_59
              but excuse me in the UAE, this capitalism is so thriving that it is just right to consider it the best form of management in the universe.

              ??? In the UAE, I'm sorry, there is no science or production as such - one mining. It's hard to call prosperity.
              1. 0
                7 March 2019 15: 09
                In the UAE, budget revenues from oil are 3 or 4 positions today
              2. 0
                8 March 2019 23: 07
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                ??? In the UAE, I'm sorry, there is no science or production as such - one mining.
                It makes no difference to everyone what is there and what is not there if the people are satisfied. The main thing is the result.
            2. 0
              7 March 2019 09: 50
              Alex_59 (Alexey)
              On the other hand, what if they have precisely a socialist economy, and what was not socialist in the USSR? Where is the sample reference point?

              The reference point is the developed socialist economy (developed socialism). The period of the USSR from 1965-1970 to 1980-1985. The period of developed socialism is characterized by full social ownership of the instruments and means of production.
              In the PRC, mixed ownership of tools and means of production, both private and state. Therefore, the economy in China is mixed. The author offers approximately the same economy for Russia.
            3. 0
              7 March 2019 18: 55
              Quote: Alex_59
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              No, market.
              I think many Chinese people will disagree with you in this interpretation. Jack Ma might agree, yes. And Yang Wei may not agree. On the other hand, what if they have a socialist economy, but what was in the USSR was not socialist? Well, like our modern capitalism, which seems to be formally "yes", but in reality it is not at all "yes". Where is the sample, the starting point? Why is the Chinese variety of socialism not dying, but the Soviet one? Maybe it's not about socialism or capitalism as such? You accuse capitalism of a dead end, but forgive me in the UAE, this capitalism is so flourishing that it is just right to consider it the best form of business in the universe. But you’ll say - the conditions of the UAE are so specific that this is not a typical example, you cannot draw conclusions from it. But the USSR was also a unique not typical example, was it not? 1/6 of the land, in an extremely harsh northern climate (the population of Canada, Sweden and Norway is ridiculously small in comparison with us, in such "north" no one like us lives on planet Earth) with unusually difficult initial conditions and unprecedented subsequent pressure from outside (WWII, cold war). Is this a pure experiment? Is it possible to draw a conclusion about the inferiority of the socialist model of development based on this clearly not typical example alone?


              What if mathematics is physics and vice versa? Don’t write nonsense, it’s a shame to read. Get acquainted with the primary sources.
              1. 0
                8 March 2019 23: 08
                Quote: free
                Do not write nonsense, ashamed to read.

                Specifically, you are not ashamed to read, you do not understand. You didn’t catch my thought.
                1. 0
                  9 March 2019 00: 07
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Quote: free
                  Do not write nonsense, ashamed to read.

                  Specifically, you are not ashamed to read, you do not understand. You didn’t catch my thought.

                  On the other hand, what if they have precisely a socialist economy, and what was not socialist in the USSR?
                  I’ve answered you here. In order not to write this, you need to read the sources. Then it will become clear where socialism is and where not. Moreover, socialism cannot be Chinese, Vietnamese or any other. Socialism is socialism.
    2. -2
      6 March 2019 09: 13
      Quote: paul3390
      - this is not true.

      In your parallel universe, where the world revolution has triumphed and everyone is building communism. In reality, the USSR fell apart, its remnants in the form of Cuba and the DPRK practically stopped agonizing and crawl in front of the winner on their knees in entreaties for help.
  18. 0
    6 March 2019 08: 44
    I deeply approve the article. Indeed, dreaming is nice. I especially liked the value system and money.
    I’m only afraid that such a system of values ​​is completely hostile to modern ruling circles (not Russia, but the world), if I at least approximately understand their interests, namely the maximum possible reduction of the Earth’s population to reduce levels of resource consumption and pollution. Therefore, they do not need the creation of an enlightened society of universal prosperity. And they will counteract this in every possible way and create others that are impossible today.
    In future articles, I propose to think about how to counter this influence.
    And what to do with limited resources and pollution? It is clear that the "world of eternal things" is much more efficient than "programmed wear" and "fashion" from the point of view of cost per result, rather than commercial profit, but again - how do you get this into your head?
  19. -1
    6 March 2019 08: 47
    ... besides this, important inventions and discoveries were encouraged by special prizes, the size of which at that time reached astronomical values.

    The author, I will tell you now how this system will work in reality in the USSR 2.0.
    A crowd of entrepreneurial and unprincipled ones will come running - and will distribute these bonuses to themselves and their neighbors.
    a designer or engineer, if he had any merits to the Fatherland, could well live in a comfortable multi-room apartment, use the services of a housekeeper, and have an official car at his disposal.

    And the housekeeper and personal driver - are they one of those who have the fairest education system and could not find any talent?
    There will certainly be those who have a "housekeeper and personal benefits". But these will not be the ones the author thinks about.
    I have not heard delusions of greater naivety from an adult for a long time. Well, except in a drunken company after a certain dose.
    An extract of the concept "for all good versus all bad."
    1. 0
      6 March 2019 16: 04
      Quote: Mestny
      There will certainly be those who have a "housekeeper and personal benefits"

      This is bad, do I understand you correctly?
    2. +1
      6 March 2019 17: 32
      Quote: Mestny
      Author, I'll tell you now,

      Well, Sergei, since we switched to "you", then I'll tell you in a simple way - you are not discussing my article now, but your personal phobias regarding the revival of socialism in some form. That is, you just remember "how would it work in the USSR" and, lifting your nose, give it to me as an axiom, not completely understanding the difference between the USSR and the USSR 2.0.
      Quote: Mestny
      And the housekeeper and personal driver - are they one of those who have the fairest education system and could not find any talent?

      Sergey, your thinking is not enough even to figure out that the education system that the USSR built could not give an epic exhaust in the period before the Second World War - we only waved at the general seven-year plan during the second five-year plan of 1933-1937. Yes, education developed, and yes, in comparison with Tsarist Russia, it was just a horse pace, but in order for a child to unlearn an 10-year at school, I’ll tell you a secret, you need 10 years, and then 5 years in high school, but later, in order to be able to speak about him as a specialist, it was necessary to work on his specialty for several years. Total - 18-20 years, and the Soviet Union at 1941, if you forgot, knocked only 19 years (it is generally formed in 1922 g).
      Quote: Mestny
      I haven't heard a delusion of greater naivety for a long time.

      Well, your reprimand is not scary. It would be terrible if a person with such an IQ would praise me lol
  20. +2
    6 March 2019 08: 56
    verbose utopianism ..., of course, there are sound thoughts, but overall fantasy. USSR-1 was born contrary to theories .... but as a result of mistakes and miscalculations of politicians, which caused its collapse. The USSR initially carried a conflict in the form of a state of workers and peasants and a bridgehead of the world revolution, at a certain stage the conflict was constructive, but did not receive its resolution, was driven deep and everything ended with perestroika ...., USSR-2 should be built - - to resolve the conflict, how and in what form is another question, but the problem is solved, and the author’s reflections .... are just words ....
  21. 0
    6 March 2019 09: 07
    In other words, in the ideology of the USSR 2.0, we must abandon the highest value of capitalism - “success”, the measure of which is the amount of money earned. In the USSR 2.0, the harmonious development of personality, spiritual and physical, should come to the fore, and life achievements should be measured by success in work.
    For the first time in a long time, I want to argue with Andrey. What the author calls the highest value of "capitalism" is in fact the highest value of the squalid oligarchic reality of a single country, the Russian Federation, in the post-Soviet era. In capitalist countries, the highest value is just very similar to the Soviet one. You don't have to go far for examples. Take any business, even Steve Jobs, even William Boeing. All were based on a "dream" and a thirst for knowledge, a thirst to expand the horizons of humanity. If Boeing just wanted to cut the dough, he would do it in such an extravagant way, like finishing an airplane. There are, of course, purely hobbyist types of earnings such as "buy-sell", and there are quite a few of them. But the steam locomotive pulling the economy is not based on just the thirst for money. And rather not even on it.
    A scientist who made a new discovery in his field of science, an engineer who designed a unique production line, a surgeon who managed to conduct a unique operation - these are the heroes of the USSR 2.0.
    In the West, under the conditions of decaying capitalism, all this is almost on a large scale than in the USSR 1.0, and even more so in the Russian Federation. That is, it is not a matter of capitalism on the one hand, but on the other hand, good earnings do not at all preclude being a brilliant and recognized scientist, engineer or cultural figure. I think that one of the problems of our thinking, which hinders understanding of Western culture, is that material and financial success is not an antagonist of scientific or spiritual success. And in many cases (but certainly not always), material success contributes to both cultural and spiritual growth. In addition, socialism is not an adversary of capitalism by and large. For example, social democracy is very combined with capitalism, and judging by some countries (France, Sweden, Italy, etc.), it has long won, without killing capitalism. Although socialism is not recognized in words in these countries, in reality, by the totality of signs, it exists there and feels excellent.
    Private property is not being canceled, but the area of ​​private business is becoming much narrower. As a matter of fact, all sectors, groups of production, are divided into 4 areas, in which:
    Oh, I don’t even know what to say. I also worked in government agencies, I also worked in large business, and today I am also a small business. I don’t remember that the first two worked more efficiently than me. Although they, like an icebreaker, are destroying everything in their path and it is easier for them in terms of survival (as long as a thick one dries, a thin one dies), but the efficiency ... The state is near zero, it is tolerable in large businesses. And for a small one - just fire! A simple example. I work in a large corporation - I had to buy Adobe Photoshop. It was bought for six months - agreed, signed, re-signed, clarified the title documents of contractors and sub-licensing companies, justified the need for management before the management ... While a small business will buy this product in 5 minutes - just enough to transfer payment from this Savings Bank card for this photoshop. Labor costs - 5 man-minutes. And in a corporation, thousands of man-days.
    1. -1
      6 March 2019 10: 01
      truth as always in the center ... the author falls into authoritarian centrism,
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 10: 28
        Quote: wooja
        truth as always in the center ..., the author falls into authoritarian centrism

        I think the recipe for our success is extremely simple. Enough to jump from side to side, let's at least something, at least some model, bring it to a normal state. We were building communism, it turned out badly, got tired of it, did not finish it, abandoned it. We took up building capitalism, it turns out badly, we are already tired of it again, let's drop everything again and start building the USSR 2.0. Guys, do you understand what awaits us in practice with this approach? In 40 years we will get tired of building the USSR 2.0. and let's drop everything again? God bless him that capitalism is not ideal, let's at least within the framework of this imperfect model of "capitalism" build something more or less convenient for life, so that it is no worse than in Europe with the Americans - after all, they somehow have this not ideal model all the same, it provides a certain minimum set of comfortable conditions for a normal human life. It is clear with many problems, both spiritual and applied, but they still live there. What are we? Pure market capitalism does not work on our soil - steal some of the methods and tools from the Chinese comrades, what is the problem?
        The point is not in the model. It's about us.
        As for the ideology - also stop inventing a bicycle. Let's already admit that a person is an animal lazy, he will not give all the best for workdays. And there are few passionaries. Social Democracy is our choice. Here you have both humanism and incentives to move for idlers. There are no people today who want to build communism and a bright future without a well-fed and comfortable life. But why do we need a global scrapping of the model again? Is it really impossible within the framework of capitalism to cultivate in a person not only greed, but also spirituality, hard work, high morality? I don’t know how I’ll turn on the "discovery" - so there are all the stories about lumberjacks, tractor drivers, polar explorers (do not give, do not take a copy of the Pravda newspaper, only in a new, adequate and modern wrapper). We take a movie, look from the Oscar winners without looking at the first film we come across, some "Grand Budapest Hotel" that is not a plot - everything is about high, about morality, about beauty. And on our first channel what? Cops and all kinds of trash. Again capitalism is to blame or what?
        1. 0
          6 March 2019 10: 36
          I agree ... it’s necessary to be simpler, everything has a place in the sun ..., communism is ideal and it’s possible to watch cop trash or Discovery or not to watch at all,
        2. +1
          6 March 2019 11: 02
          Of course he is not to blame. We are to blame.
          This happens when a certain community of people tries to use the results of the development of another civilization - not understanding either the principle of work of such an achievement, or the necessity of its occurrence.
          In this case, the borrowing is adapted to its own understanding.
          Well, for example. There are peoples on earth who live by the principle of tribal relations, who are 1000 years behind the rest of the years. And suddenly, modern weapons fall into their hands. What happens in this case? Are relationships changing?
          Nothing like this. The number of murders increases tenfold. Because "civilized people use it, kill, which means we are no worse."
          So it is with us with capitalism. We only understood from him that "man is a wolf to man", and "the capitalist will do anything for 300% of the profit."
          That is, they only learned what was close to us in terms of development.
          Now it turned out that this system does not work according to such principles.
          It remains to understand that this is not all in capitalism.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. 0
          7 March 2019 18: 51
          Quote: Alex_59
          Quote: wooja
          truth as always in the center ..., the author falls into authoritarian centrism

          I think the recipe for our success is extremely simple. Enough to jump from side to side, let's at least something, at least some model, bring it to a normal state. We were building communism, it turned out badly, got tired of it, did not finish it, abandoned it. We took up building capitalism, it turns out badly, we are already tired of it again, let's drop everything again and start building the USSR 2.0. Guys, do you understand what awaits us in practice with this approach? In 40 years we will get tired of building the USSR 2.0. and let's drop everything again? God bless him that capitalism is not ideal, let's at least within the framework of this imperfect model of "capitalism" build something more or less convenient for life, so that it is no worse than in Europe with the Americans - after all, they somehow have this not ideal model all the same, it provides a certain minimum set of comfortable conditions for a normal human life. It is clear with many problems, both spiritual and applied, but they still live there. What are we? Pure market capitalism does not work on our soil - steal some of the methods and tools from the Chinese comrades, what is the problem?
          The point is not in the model. It's about us.
          As for the ideology - also stop inventing a bicycle. Let's already admit that a person is an animal lazy, he will not give all the best for workdays. And there are few passionaries. Social Democracy is our choice. Here you have both humanism and incentives to move for idlers. There are no people today who want to build communism and a bright future without a well-fed and comfortable life. But why do we need a global scrapping of the model again? Is it really impossible within the framework of capitalism to cultivate in a person not only greed, but also spirituality, hard work, high morality? I don’t know how I’ll turn on the "discovery" - so there are all the stories about lumberjacks, tractor drivers, polar explorers (do not give, do not take a copy of the Pravda newspaper, only in a new, adequate and modern wrapper). We take a movie, look from the Oscar winners without looking at the first film we come across, some "Grand Budapest Hotel" that is not a plot - everything is about high, about morality, about beauty. And on our first channel what? Cops and all kinds of trash. Again capitalism is to blame or what?


          Already being built. For oneself loved ones. Without asking. Like it? Are you ready to lie down with bones to finish building?
  22. BAI
    +4
    6 March 2019 09: 09
    Money for a man of the USSR 2.0, of course, is extremely important. But not as an end in itself, but only as a means of ensuring the personal needs and needs of the family at a level that allows you not to worry about the essentials. In other words, money in the USSR 2.0 is being transformed from a goal into a tool designed to provide a person with the opportunity to calmly do what they love. No more, but no less.

    1. Give the person an opportunity not to work, and he will not work. A powerful enough incentive is needed to force it to work. It’s not enough to go on enthusiasm alone, and there won’t be enough state awards for all (Lenin and Stalin’s no longer).
    2. Social security - the author did not say anything about him. If there are unemployment benefits that allow you to live, then again many will not work.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  23. +3
    6 March 2019 09: 13
    Even if this article painted just a "utopian" picture, it should have been written anyway, simply because it's about such a world, such a future is nice to read - no malice to you, no threats! But the article also makes you think, in my opinion: is it really possible to build? but how to do it? maybe in a different way? In any case, she made me! laughing He also drew attention to the absence of very malicious, poisonous comments. laughing Thank you, Andrew! hi
    1. 0
      6 March 2019 09: 53
      the absence of malicious comments is already good ... but unfortunately the development of society is based on conflict ..., the question is its constructive resolution, classless society-- utopia and illusion, USSR-1 was built on conflict and its successful resolution , t Stalin at one time noted and widely used this property of society, but he clearly went too far, but definitely moved in the right direction ...,
    2. 0
      6 March 2019 17: 33
      Quote: victor50
      Thank you, Andrew!

      You're welcome! hi
  24. 0
    6 March 2019 09: 23
    "Man is man's friend, comrade and brother." In today's realities, man, man is a wolf, and only for this reason, no USSR 2 is possible.
  25. +1
    6 March 2019 09: 45
    An interesting article, only those who are sitting in high chairs today will not accept it, since it completely prevents them from STEALING, and it is necessary to steal and speak about this directly and honestly, when in 2012 they formed a new government, after some time the wives of the vice-president the prime ministers suddenly became ruble billionaires. This is just one of the facts that the media covered at that time. There will be no changes, since the offspring of those sitting high in armchairs have already begun to come to power, and if the people built by the gdp are not in power, the whole pyramid built by them will collapse. This they cannot allow, their personal well-being is above all, beautiful, well-fed, tanned, They are very fond of botox, to the rest they are like a lantern.
    1. -2
      6 March 2019 14: 47
      We know you like that.
      Yelling about those who steal only then, in order to put in their place exactly the same people who will be shared with you.
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 16: 44
        This is happening all over the world. "We will ensure the welfare of the people."
      2. -1
        7 March 2019 18: 26
        Quote: Mestny
        We know you like that.
        Yelling about those who steal only then, in order to put in their place exactly the same people who will be shared with you.

        Now apparently sharing with you.
    2. -1
      7 March 2019 18: 25
      Quotation: I.P.
      An interesting article, only those who are sitting in high chairs today will not accept it, since it completely prevents them from STEALING, and it is necessary to steal and speak about this directly and honestly, when in 2012 they formed a new government, after some time the wives of the vice-president the prime ministers suddenly became ruble billionaires. This is just one of the facts that the media covered at that time. There will be no changes, since the offspring of those sitting high in armchairs have already begun to come to power, and if the people built by the gdp are not in power, the whole pyramid built by them will collapse. This they cannot allow, their personal well-being is above all, beautiful, well-fed, tanned, They are very fond of botox, to the rest they are like a lantern.

      Yes, it is possible and necessary to change.
  26. 0
    6 March 2019 09: 59
    Therefore, we will call our society of the future easier: USSR 2.0.

    For preliminary study this name can be used. However, this name is incorrect theoretically, practically, and from several sides.
    The USSR collapsed ... Some say that it collapsed itself. Others "authoritatively" claim to have ruined. In essence, there is no difference. The USSR turned out to be weak in several ways. It is better to take the term "New Russia" as the name of the society of the future. This term can unite the broadest social strata and groups.
    1. -1
      7 March 2019 18: 24
      Not socialism turned out to be weak !!!!! But people who are its only creators and builders. Weaknesses of people are not weaknesses of the system.
  27. +2
    6 March 2019 10: 45
    The author offers a hybrid of Tito (Yugoslav) self-governing socialism, the modern Sino-Vietnamese political and economic system with elements of our NEP, Sakharov convergence and Mussoliniev corporatism.
    1. +1
      6 March 2019 15: 11
      Earring, and yet, the author is right :: you need to take ALL THE BEST, up to the theft of ideas whose ideas these would not be. I hope comrades from law enforcement do not get mad at me: I urge theft
  28. 0
    6 March 2019 10: 53
    you just need to restore the monarchy, eliminating the protection of greed by the top layer of government of the country .. then further steps will become easier, more real .. and the state system will become more stable, revolutions based on elections "wrong" will become impossible.
    1. 0
      8 March 2019 14: 32
      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
      you just need to restore the monarchy eliminating protection of greed by the upper layer of government ..
      - read the guns before the PMV, and then push the theory back. Matilda nobly twisted backwards ....
  29. -3
    6 March 2019 10: 55
    No need to invent anything; everything has long been invented and run in. We look at the Finns, Norwegians, Swedes, Danes and take over the experience!
    1. -2
      6 March 2019 14: 49
      Can.
      First you need to get rid of giant territories - divided into microstates.
      Then 300 years should pass, as a result 99% of such states will die. And what will remain - yes, maybe they will live like the Finns. Or like the Norwegians.
      Ready?
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 14: 59
        Well tady look at Canada and the States! Profit
    2. The comment was deleted.
  30. +1
    6 March 2019 10: 57
    How all soared! The sheer number of responses indicates a high interest - they not only read it, but shared their emotions.
    Great article, "+" definitely. I look forward to continuing.
  31. 0
    6 March 2019 11: 07
    The conclusion regarding the capitalist and socialist economies is that both systems have their drawbacks and advantages, and they seem to complement each other: socialism is strong where capitalism is weak, and vice versa

    Bravo author, these are only parts of the whole.)
    create an economy in which the virtues of socialism and capitalism merge harmoniously, complementing each other, and thereby minimizing the shortcomings of both systems.

    This is natural, it is necessary to connect the parts, but this is not a static model, but a dynamic one. It should change depending on changes in social tasks.
    In USSR 2.0, cognition should be the highest value.

    So we stepped on this rake, knowledge is needed, but as soon as it becomes a goal, it is a dead end. Knowledge without spirituality is equal to pride. In the USSR, they said "man, it sounds proud", and how everyone was humiliated in the 90s.))
    Frankl says correctly "man is possessed by the will to meaning," the highest, existential meaning!
    In other words, in the ideology of the USSR 2.0, we must abandon the highest value of capitalism - “success”, the measure of which is the amount of money earned. In USSR 2.0, the harmonious development of the individual, spiritual and physical, should come to the fore, and life achievements should be measured by success in work. The scientist who made a new discovery in his field of science, the engineer who designed the unique production line, the surgeon who managed to conduct a unique operation - these are the heroes of the USSR 2.0.

    You do not go away from "success", you just change its criterion, money is in capitalism, and you have a hero. This objectively follows from prior knowledge = pride.
    You write "there should be a harmonious development of the personality, spiritual", harmony with what ?!))) Spirit is not a material principle, those physical tools of cognition are sooo little help here.))
    The fact is that such an ideology is not enough to declare. It still needs to be supported by appropriate measures, to build certain hierarchies under it.

    Yes, you already have a way of declaration! Only slightly modernized socialism spilled the USSR 1.0. Hierarchy is people, people and again people. They and only they support or change the system, and if you put pride in the basis of the USSR 2.0 system, then sooo quickly the proud will begin to believe that they lack something, they live badly, deserve more, the "neighbor" has better, etc. which happened in the system of the USSR 1.0, which destroyed it!
  32. +1
    6 March 2019 12: 06
    Idyll does not exist sad And greed always remains. It is not sad, but a fact.
  33. +1
    6 March 2019 12: 09
    What is this eternal debate about, which system is better? Of course, the best one is where social security is maximum, but the only question is what money and at whose expense ?. The state still has to earn something in order to provide gigantic payments. Only taxes, and the richer the population, the greater the fee. Without private medium and large capital, alas, no way. The idea with state corporations is good, the sale of raw materials for currency, etc., but socialism cannot hold on to this alone. Or another form of utopia - everyone works for free, but responsibly and just as free gets what he wants.
  34. 0
    6 March 2019 12: 41
    Therefore, everyone is so afraid of Soviet socialism?
    Are there many large owners of the means of production among readers of VO? Factories, ships.
    The myth of the dangers of planning has already been dispelled for a long time, it turned out that everything is planned in the West, even ordinary people, in the USSR people haven’t planned their whole lives.)))
    1. -2
      6 March 2019 14: 52
      The answer is simple.
      Most readers of VO, and in general citizens of the country, have something to lose.
      The neocommunists suggest that they again lose everything - with the hope of a better future.
      And the citizens of the country answer them - you leave us alone, at least let us live this way, bring up children, and experience basic human comforts.
      1. +1
        6 March 2019 15: 14
        In the USSR it was impossible to have a car or an apartment, a house?
        "leave us alone" - that's when we will pay for everything (education, medicine, security), and there is no money, then come and save us.
        "to experience basic human comfort" - microcredits are the most convenient and human)))
  35. +1
    6 March 2019 12: 50
    Dear Andrey! You have a very interesting theory of the structure of society, but you can’t see what will inspire people to abide by the rules?
    In the USSR, there was hazing and fraternity in the army (on a national basis) and now it is (people living in one country live in different worlds with different mentality).
    And yet, for example, your theory has won, and shape-shifters from different parties, officials will instantly reorganize under new conditions and again we will behold all the same "favorite" faces, but with new speeches. What are we going to do with this cunning folk? There are no others ...
    1. -1
      6 March 2019 14: 54
      How will they do that? It is known that. In consumption.
      There are no other options.
      They simply are not, physically.
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 15: 11
        Quote: Mestny
        It is known that. In consumption.

        To build paradise on bones?
    2. +2
      6 March 2019 14: 56
      The correct question: pervertisers-pressoblentsi know how to jump not only change their shoes, but also completely change their clothes. There are two solutions to the problem: 1) "lustration" in different variations: through garbage cans, which we have seen recently, create reservations for them and other violent and near-violent methods 2) raise our hands and admit that we are powerless to cope with this problem
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 15: 08
        Quote: vladcub
        through garbage bins that we recently saw

        I just wanted to hear the author’s opinion on this issue, if reformatting of consciousness is not possible, then the whole theory will fall apart. How to make a thief and an opportunist voluntarily act for the good of society? He could not do otherwise.
        1. +1
          6 March 2019 17: 37
          Quote: Qwertyarion
          That's just wanted to hear the opinion of the author on this issue, if reformatting of consciousness is not possible, then the whole theory will fall apart.

          The fact of the matter is that nothing falls apart. The theory is not designed for ideal people.
    3. +1
      6 March 2019 17: 36
      Quote: Qwertyarion
      Do you have a very interesting theory of the structure of society, but it’s not clear that it will force people to follow the rules?

      They do not need to be followed :))) This is about how morality is - we teach our children what is good and what is bad, then they grow out ... and we ourselves are no better :)))))))
      In general, society should have a moral code to which it is worth striving (and which is impossible to achieve, I agree). similarly, for example, in the United States the American dream is promoted, although everyone knows that all US citizens will never achieve it.
      1. 0
        7 March 2019 06: 45
        We will wait for the continuation, Andrey!
  36. 0
    6 March 2019 14: 35
    By the end of the twentieth century, the socialist economy lost the competition of the capitalist

    In computer science there is such a thing - GIGO. Garbage Input - Garbage Output. Garbage at the entrance, garbage at the exit.
    Where did the socialist economy lose? IN USSR? At first, the renegade Khrushchev survivors of the mind destroyed socialism in the country, and its economy is still dying so that it is still parasitized by several not the smallest countries in the world.
    Where did the socialist economy lose? Maybe in Laos, Vietnam, North Korea? Maybe she is losing in China now? Currently in socialist states (i.e. states building socialism) lives more than 1,5 billion people. And in these states, economic crises do not rage, bankrupt bankers are not thrown out of windows, aggressive wars are not waged, and there is no unemployment. Yes, there are often no super-rich people there. But there are no beggars. And this is more important than the absence of the super-rich. They do not even rage in those in which socialism has not yet been built, but is already under construction. Somehow uncomfortable in front of the Chinese comrades, chesslovo.
    1. -2
      6 March 2019 14: 56
      She lost in the USSR.
      And now the capitalist economy is preparing to lose in the new Russia.
      And the singers for the beautiful USSR are actively helping her in this, clogging the brains of citizens with utopian nonsense about universal equality.
      What's next?
      You can’t build any socialism here anymore. It is obvious.
      Then why? Hope that you will succeed in sailing out in troubled waters?
      1. -1
        6 March 2019 16: 51
        The capitalist economy in Russia will never lose - the country is integrated into the world financial, market system to the last "cell".
      2. +2
        6 March 2019 16: 56
        Quote: Mestny
        She lost in the USSR.

        Chukchi is not a reader, Chukchi is a writer ...
        Especially for / from such ideas, it was written about renegade Khrushchevites and about the dismantling of the USSR before its economic loss.
        You can’t build any socialism here anymore.

        We do not expect. The task today is different - to educate, teach class consciousness, class struggle the peoples of the former USSR. Because the current generation has even lost the memory of the class struggle. And people in Germany, France, Sweden and other remnants of the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation - remember. Because when the victory of socialism was declared in the USSR, then the struggle of the working people for their rights ceased. And he who does not fight for his rights is always always the same and loses in the end. So the Soviet people lost. But not economically, but ideologically. Therefore, the task is not to turn the country into the ears of the new revolution, but to educate the proletariat and the conscious intelligentsia to defend the rights of working people in a peaceful and legal way. What for? So that the proletarians have time for self-education. Educated, competent proletarians will be able to figure out for themselves what is good for them and what is bad. What is better capitalism or socialism.
    2. 0
      6 March 2019 15: 38
      Quote: Shuttle
      Garbage at the entrance, garbage at the exit.

      That's right!

      The author rumbles in terms, and their meaning either does not know or did not tell how he understands them. That's why he writes nonsense. Starting with the title. If today everyone focuses on the horrors of childbirth, then humanity has no more life left than yesterday born.

      The horror of revolution, you say? But the generation that made this revolution did not consider it horror:

      1. 0
        6 March 2019 16: 53
        But because of all those who made this revolution, they later ground their own.
      2. -1
        7 March 2019 18: 14
        Quote: McAr
        Quote: Shuttle
        Garbage at the entrance, garbage at the exit.

        That's right!

        The author rumbles in terms, and their meaning either does not know or did not tell how he understands them. That's why he writes nonsense. Starting with the title. If today everyone focuses on the horrors of childbirth, then humanity has no more life left than yesterday born.

        The horror of revolution, you say? But the generation that made this revolution did not consider it horror:


        The author is not our opponent, this is the main thing. For the rest, we will find a common language.
        1. 0
          7 March 2019 18: 20
          Quote: free
          The author is not our opponent, this is the main thing.

          If in good faith is mistaken, then yes - not the enemy. Even some bourgeois are not opposed to us, if they stand on proletarian positions. But the main thing is to make mistakes without intent. Then all is not lost.
    3. 0
      6 March 2019 16: 30
      Technically, USSR-2 can be built in 7-10 years, the question is how to preserve and increase it ?, the experience of the Stalinist USSR, Nazi Germany and the Roosevelt USA shows that this is possible, the question rests on politics and ideology, but not on the economy.
      1. -1
        6 March 2019 20: 46
        Technically, it’s possible - physically not real.
        1. 0
          6 March 2019 20: 49
          Financing is bad ....
          1. 0
            7 March 2019 11: 39
            There is no one to do this, but no one will.
            1. +1
              7 March 2019 11: 42
              extremely profitable business .... but very difficult
    4. +2
      6 March 2019 17: 38
      Quote: Shuttle
      Where is the socialist economy lost? Maybe in Laos, Vietnam, North Korea? Maybe she is losing in China now?

      Let's stop a bit and remember that in the same China there is no socialist economy. There is a clean market, Keynesian model
  37. +1
    6 March 2019 14: 41
    The ways of transition to the new system are not described. What to do with actively and passively resisting social groups? How to implement new principles without mass shootings? Who will support the vertical of power? Who will restrict the siloviki and "state corporations"? Not the advice of doctors and teachers?
    You described a world that can exist under one single condition: At the helm there must be a certain conditional Stalin who enjoys the unquestioned authority of the vast majority of citizens and who obviously does not use his almost unlimited power for the benefit of his environment and himself. AI?
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 16: 40
        Stalin should not be conditional at all, but very material .... Putin himself is rather arbitrary .... his unconditionality is nothing more than virtuality
    2. +3
      6 March 2019 17: 39
      Quote: MooH
      The ways of transition to the new system are not described.

      What the author immediately honestly warned. In the framework of one article does not fit :)))
      1. 0
        6 March 2019 18: 15
        We will wait for the continuation. But something I doubt that in principle it is possible to answer all the questions posed;)
  38. +1
    6 March 2019 14: 44
    Andrei, in fact, calls for the establishment of the NEP, but with an amendment to the 21st century .. In this case, Andrei runs the risk of being locked up on both sides: there are haters of Lenin and there are such people in our ranks, after all, it was under V.I. that the NEP appeared in our country ... And the famous one: "New Deal" by F.D. Roosevelt-Lenin's program of the NEP.
    The second side, that to get under way on Andrey - "orthodox communists", after all, Andrey's program denies 100% state property.
  39. 0
    6 March 2019 14: 44
    Convergence Theory 2.0.
    In practice, it doesn't work. If we allow private business to develop, giving it the same rights as state-owned companies, sooner or later we will get that salaries in the private sector significantly exceed those in the public sector. There are many reasons for this, but the result is this, confirmed by practice. If left this way, most smart workers will gather in the private sector and prefer to repair cars, rather than build "Unions / Protons".
    And if the financial inspector will increase the rate of taxes to strangle private business - it will be like in the USSR at the end of the NEP
    1. -2
      6 March 2019 15: 00
      Yes, it does not work at all, for these Marxists-Leninists. In its pure form is a complete utopia.
      It works only when they try on the theory of Marxism, and work economically as capitalists.
      China example.
    2. -1
      6 March 2019 16: 58
      Your taxes are funds for the development of the state, defense, industry, science, education, infrastructure, etc. And taxes are stifled, since not all of them pay or pay - cheating. For beginners, tax holidays are provided.
  40. +4
    6 March 2019 15: 32
    Good afternoon, Andrey from Chelyabinsk. This is not a comment, but I want to write to You. Many thanks for this article. Please excuse my Russian language and grammar. You can see for sure that I am not from Russia. I live in Slovakia. I read this online edition daily. I have already read all your articles ( 4 ). But this last one took me by the heart. I am no longer a young guy and therefore I speak to You on YOU. I understand your thinking processes very much - it seems to me that you are no longer young either. Only those who lived during socialism can talk like that. I experienced a significant part in socialism. I can say that I completely agree with everything, but there are some nuances. The discussion is very rich, but it's all about agreement or disagreement. I have a full head of ideas in this direction and I would like to talk to You in person, if You agree. May ate here. mail: [email protected] If you want to write to me to get a contact. Will wait.
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. +2
    6 March 2019 18: 41
    Excellent article, there are moments where I would object, but on the whole I agree more. In general, I think that communism is uncontested for Russia as for all mankind, if only because it allows it to survive as a species. The economy ..., the economy should be outside of politics, it should be limited by law and law. The macroeconomic regulator should of course be a plan in conjunction with a competent tax policy that stimulates, and when necessary, limits its distortions. Different parties should have a direct relation to the development of laws, as reflecting the views of various segments of the population, but parties should not be allowed to adopt laws, laws should be adopted by representatives of legislative bodies, which are primarily delegates from the regions, but in no case representatives of parties although I think membership in any of them specific deputies is permissible (the moment here is very slippery, and we need to think about eliminating the influence of parties on the adoption of laws). I would like to say a lot, but I will wait for the continuation of the article, and maybe after I will write a comment, or maybe not, how it goes.
  43. +1
    6 March 2019 19: 50
    "It's a pity - neither me nor you will have to live in this wonderful time." ©
  44. +3
    6 March 2019 21: 03
    By the end of the twentieth century, the socialist economy lost the capitalist competition.


    Here the author is wrong, the socialist economy has not lost to capitalism. Just by 1991, nothing was left of her. They began to destroy it purposefully immediately after the death of Stalin.
    The Bolsheviks by the end of the 40s found an effective mechanism of the socialist economy: the orientation of enterprises to reduce costs, a two-level scale of prices. This economy at the turn of 40-50 allowed an annual decline in prices, which in the future led to the abolition of commodity-money relations and money itself, i.e. brought the country closer to communism.

    Khrushchev began to dismantle this system, who sold MTS equipment to collective farms, which were forced to include the cost of equipment in the price of agricultural products. Brezhnev continued the destruction, during which an economic reform of the transfer of enterprises to self-financing was carried out and profit became the main indicator. After that, all cheap goods began to be washed and prices continued to rise. Gorbachev finished off the socialist economy when the law on cooperation was adopted.

    Those who are interested in what a socialist economy should be can read about it on the website.
    http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/k_kakomu_socializmu_zovut_bolsheviki/1-1-0-46
    http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/stalinskaja_model_socializma/1-1-0-55
  45. -3
    6 March 2019 21: 13
    First, capitalism rots from the time of Marx, only rotting, this decomposition is accompanied by a constant increase in living standards, human potential and the consumption of goods and services. Sorrow longing.
    And by the way about some "special visions of the future of Russia", "their truths", "two Russian armies", etc .:

    Bees against honey, and red against Russophobia. Watakuot gentlemen ...
    1. +6
      6 March 2019 21: 24
      Quote: Lucky_Bard
      First, capitalism rots from the time of Marx, only rotting is this decomposition accompanied by a constant increase in living standards

      I am sorry to disappoint you, but the standard of living in countries has not been growing for a long time, and in comparable data it, in fact, is deteriorating. And this is not my opinion, but the opinion of people who live there for a long time.
      1. -1
        6 March 2019 21: 36
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Quote: Lucky_Bard
        First, capitalism rots from the time of Marx, only rotting is this decomposition accompanied by a constant increase in living standards



        I am sorry to disappoint you, but the standard of living in countries has not been growing for a long time, and in comparable data it, in fact, is deteriorating. And this is not my opinion, but the opinion of people who live there for a long time.






        Based on what data, you are making such a bold statement, as a resident of Western Europe with 20 years of "experience", I dare assure you, is not very relevant to reality?
      2. 0
        6 March 2019 21: 46
        You would live poorly - holiday expenses would not break records every year, but essentially useless and by no means cheap goods would not fly like hot cakes.
  46. 0
    6 March 2019 21: 33
    The author took up a difficult topic, one might say, unbearable ... And here you can not rely on incorrect or not quite correct postulates:
    capitalist and socialist economic systems in their pure form have by now exhausted themselves

    Socialist in its pure form was never realized anywhere, and in some places we have a deep symbiosis (Swedish socialism).
    The transition from slavery to feudalism was slow, painful, and was accompanied by many wars. The first steps to capitalism were also very difficult:

    And what a slow transition from a primitive communal system to slavery ... And how many wars - history is silent. In general, wars are human history, everything else in it is either unknown or unimportant. Is there any transition going on, and just as Porthos used to say: "I fight, because I fight."
    But now we are faced with the fact that the surface of the earth is more or less explored, we also more or less mastered air and water, and now we have space

    We know the ocean much worse than near space. We know a little surface layer about the earth's crust, we certainly do not know anything about the mantle and core. For example, even an explanation of the Earth's magnetic field and its drift relative to the axis of rotation.
    that humanity will exist as long as it develops

    Looks like "The doctrine of Marx is omnipotent, because it is true ..." Such an axiom-like statement.
    In fact, even in the observed written history there were periods of deep degradation, loss of knowledge and technology, decline in morals, and the savagery of significant territories. And nothing - humanity continued to exist, even sometimes dying out by a third or more from epidemics. The main thing is that the gene pool is transmitted. Even when life expectancy does not reach 30 years. According to Weller, the meaning of the development of the mind as the crown of nature - in general, as a result, arrange a new Big Bang, organizing a new Universe. So while we are only training with less effort to arrange an increasingly large-scale "bang bang", but here is the result of this result: humanity will cease to exist (who remembers the massive psychosis about the LHC?)
    Let the author not consider that I do not agree with him at all. Meritocracy (the power of the best) is a very desirable way of managing, but here is how to ensure it?
    After all, the previous "best" will always want to see themselves or their descendants as the next managers.
    And, no matter how cruelly it sounds, wars are the criterion that forcibly places its ratings, which cannot be influenced by the power of authority, knowledge, bribery, or any other roundabout ways.
    And at the core - deeply biological reasons - we evolved from herd primates, and our brains to one degree or another repeat the behavioral motivations developed in the process of evolution. And we must learn to use these motivations for the development of the whole society, for its improvement. Just to begin with, it is necessary to recognize the slogan "Freedom, equality, brotherhood!", Which since the time of the great French revolution like a mandatory mantra for any constitution - false. For in fact, everyone in society has a role to play, and no one is free from it, no one is equal to anyone, not even soldiers in the same ranks, not to mention such obvious inequality as sex. I don’t even know what to say about the brotherhood, it’s necessary to ask around in Ukraine; they know more about this matter.
    1. 0
      6 March 2019 22: 47
      the view of the realist ...., without enthusiasm, chauvinism and the cause, but society does not welcome such an approach, stumble
  47. +3
    6 March 2019 21: 57
    "The author of this article ..."
    Absolutely illiterate in this matter.
  48. +1
    7 March 2019 05: 21
    By the end of the twentieth century, the socialist economy lost the capitalist competition.

    I understand that there is a concept and all facts are bent or broken under it. But why stupidly lie? The socialist economy of Stalin could exist for 1000 years, if not for the Trotskyists and direct traitors.
  49. -2
    7 March 2019 17: 37
    In other words, in the ideology of the USSR 2.0, we must abandon the highest value of capitalism - “success”, the measure of which is the amount of money earned. In USSR 2.0, the harmonious development of the individual, spiritual and physical, should come to the fore, and life achievements should be measured by success in work. The scientist who made a new discovery in his field of science, the engineer who designed the unique production line, the surgeon who managed to conduct a unique operation - these are the heroes of the USSR 2.0. In other words, the discovery or creation of something new should be valued above all in our new ideology.

    Do you understand what’s the matter, it’s specifically YOU want to abandon such a measure of success, but this measure suits everyone, and it suits for thousands of years to this day. There is not a single system, not a single socio-economic model where the influence of money has really been abandoned. Even in the USSR, money was not the last indicator of success, although it was carefully concealed. Yes, connections were still important in the USSR, rather they were a measure of success - how many influential people you have access to. But, again, weren't scarce goods or overseas items flaunted and considered a sign of a successful life? But goods and money are practically the same thing - material values. We can refuse money, but we cannot refuse the desire for money-grubbing. Therefore, declarations alone cannot be reversed. First we must educate a generation of people who have a craving for achievements higher than a craving for material values, and only THEN declare something. Such people are and always have been, but there were only a few. One thing united them - they became great, their work has been preserved for centuries. Of course, it would be great if everyone were like that, but it’s utopia, and -ism can’t fix it.

    The fact is that in the theory of the market economy there is a thesis, the validity of which by the majority of its adherents is not questioned. And it lies in the fact that, with the exception of some very specific cases, the state management of the enterprise, and even more so the industry will be less effective than the management of the private owner. It goes without saying that a theoretical basis is laid down, which consists in the fact that the owner, personally interested in economic results, will provide the best level of management, but ... the practice does not confirm this thesis.

    And here is the consequence of what I said a little higher. Your opinion on public and private property is distorted by the incorrectness of the comparison. The USSR has really achieved a lot, but ownership is not a key indicator here. The USSR was pushed forward by the people of labor. The generation of 30-40 years, which grew up during the deprivations of the war, was able to be content with the small and was very motivated to work, people gave themselves 200% to their work, and they reached these heights. Those who did not want to work on their own were forced, this must also be taken into account. In the USSR, there were many tools to make people work, in fact, it was an ordinary juicer. However, in the years 60-70 people who were accustomed to a more or less well-fed life began to work, they no longer had such motivation, but had higher appetites, therefore by the age of 80 all achievements were leveled. Although, please note, ownership has not changed.
    Now the picture is generally deplorable - people have completely relaxed, you won’t get them to work for an average salary, students come to work, they want to work as couriers for 40, they say, they need to buy a new iPhone, otherwise it’s not enough. Plus, private property with us is its worst form, large corporations were captured by those who did not grow this business from scratch, for them it is a stupid source of enrichment. Compare, for example, our managers with managers in Germany - there the factory owner knows every screw in his factory, knows all the production and logistics chains, all suppliers, all key customers - he grew this business himself, or his parents, and then passed him . There, business owners think day and night about how to make the business more efficient, and the product is more affordable for the buyer, because high competition forces them to constantly meet their customers. It is impossible to make state managers invest in the same way, this is not their business, they, as drivers of state-owned cars, drive from point A to point B, it is advisable not to scratch much.
    1. 0
      7 March 2019 20: 43
      Quote: YarSer88
      In other words, in the ideology of the USSR 2.0, we must abandon the highest value of capitalism - “success”, the measure of which is the amount of money earned. In USSR 2.0, the harmonious development of the individual, spiritual and physical, should come to the fore, and life achievements should be measured by success in work. The scientist who made a new discovery in his field of science, the engineer who designed the unique production line, the surgeon who managed to conduct a unique operation - these are the heroes of the USSR 2.0. In other words, the discovery or creation of something new should be valued above all in our new ideology.

      Do you understand what’s the matter, it’s specifically YOU want to abandon such a measure of success, but this measure suits everyone, and it suits for thousands of years to this day. There is not a single system, not a single socio-economic model where the influence of money has really been abandoned. Even in the USSR, money was not the last indicator of success, although it was carefully concealed. Yes, connections were still important in the USSR, rather they were a measure of success - how many influential people you have access to. But, again, weren't scarce goods or overseas items flaunted and considered a sign of a successful life? But goods and money are practically the same thing - material values. We can refuse money, but we cannot refuse the desire for money-grubbing. Therefore, declarations alone cannot be reversed. First we must educate a generation of people who have a craving for achievements higher than a craving for material values, and only THEN declare something. Such people are and always have been, but there were only a few. One thing united them - they became great, their work has been preserved for centuries. Of course, it would be great if everyone were like that, but it’s utopia, and -ism can’t fix it.

      The fact is that in the theory of the market economy there is a thesis, the validity of which by the majority of its adherents is not questioned. And it lies in the fact that, with the exception of some very specific cases, the state management of the enterprise, and even more so the industry will be less effective than the management of the private owner. It goes without saying that a theoretical basis is laid down, which consists in the fact that the owner, personally interested in economic results, will provide the best level of management, but ... the practice does not confirm this thesis.

      And here is the consequence of what I said a little higher. Your opinion on public and private property is distorted by the incorrectness of the comparison. The USSR has really achieved a lot, but ownership is not a key indicator here. The USSR was pushed forward by the people of labor. The generation of 30-40 years, which grew up during the deprivations of the war, was able to be content with the small and was very motivated to work, people gave themselves 200% to their work, and they reached these heights. Those who did not want to work on their own were forced, this must also be taken into account. In the USSR, there were many tools to make people work, in fact, it was an ordinary juicer. However, in the years 60-70 people who were accustomed to a more or less well-fed life began to work, they no longer had such motivation, but had higher appetites, therefore by the age of 80 all achievements were leveled. Although, please note, ownership has not changed.
      Now the picture is generally deplorable - people have completely relaxed, you won’t get them to work for an average salary, students come to work, they want to work as couriers for 40, they say, they need to buy a new iPhone, otherwise it’s not enough. Plus, private property with us is its worst form, large corporations were captured by those who did not grow this business from scratch, for them it is a stupid source of enrichment. Compare, for example, our managers with managers in Germany - there the factory owner knows every screw in his factory, knows all the production and logistics chains, all suppliers, all key customers - he grew this business himself, or his parents, and then passed him . There, business owners think day and night about how to make the business more efficient, and the product is more affordable for the buyer, because high competition forces them to constantly meet their customers. It is impossible to make state managers invest in the same way, this is not their business, they, as drivers of state-owned cars, drive from point A to point B, it is advisable not to scratch much.

      They wrote nonsense, sorry for being blunt.
  50. -1
    7 March 2019 18: 04
    Excellent article!
    I disagree with something, but oh well, I’ll be silent, not critical.
    Keep writing Andrew! I look forward to continuing.
  51. 0
    5 August 2023 17: 13
    The author’s opinion that the socialist economy lost to the capitalist one was taken from the air. A Western-style capitalist economy can only exist through robbery. When there is no one to rob, a major crisis begins. These crises are systematic, which indicates the deep depravity of capitalism. The Soviet economy did not know what financial crises were. And she didn’t lose, she was purposefully killed. Just as the USSR itself was later killed.