Energomash was the first in the world to test a detonation liquid rocket engine

NPO "Energomash" successfully tested the detonation liquid-propellant rocket engine (LRE) on environmentally friendly fuel, TASS a message from the Advanced Research Foundation

"The specialized laboratory" Detonation LRE ", created in 2014 on the basis of NPO Energomash, conducted the world's first successful tests of a full-size demonstrator of a detonation liquid rocket engine on an oxygen-kerosene fuel pair," the release said.

It is noted that "the tests of two full-size demonstrators of the new engine were held in July-August of this year, the specialists managed to achieve their efficiency in several starts."

The Fund explained that “a detonation engine is different from a conventional liquid-propellant rocket engine in that a jet stream is created not simply by burning fuel, but by controlled explosions, and the shock wave is twisted in the engine’s combustion chamber.”

According to experts, all this "provides less fuel consumption with more power."

Igor Denisov, Deputy General Director of the Foundation: “The results obtained are of truly global significance and are impressive in their uniqueness. We took up the difficult task of proving the possibility of organizing detonation in oxygen-kerosene rocket engines. And now we can firmly say that this is possible, and we know how to do it. But we are not going to rest on our laurels, and we hope in the near future to give practical confirmations of all the other declared characteristics. ”

Comments

[seregatara1969]

here probably the rumble is

[armageddon]

Hmm ... The campaign of mystery 3 Reich begin to open slightly ... !!! Victor Schuberger's vortex engine ... Intriguing ... !!!

[cniza]

And not only the Third Reich and not secrets anymore, but reality seems to be. Good luck to our engineers.

[zero12005]

Schauberger, no offense ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

armageddon Today, 11:50 ↑
Hmm ... The campaign of mystery 3 Reich begin to open slightly ... !!! Victor Schuberger's vortex engine ... Intriguing ... !!!

nothing like ... even the type of fuel is different, and Schauberger generally does not reliably describe either the principle or the fuel .... http: //www.trinitas.ru/rus/doc/0023/001a/00231034.htm

[gridasov]

You are absolutely right that Schauberger remains misunderstood. However, even though he himself did not openly describe the principles of operation of his turbine, he very often described the properties of the fuel that his devices converted. However, its engine can be further optimized for various applications.

[Connie]

Why? A fairly well-known case in psychotherapy.

[siberalt]

Well, now kerosene will rise in price!

[dmi.pris1]

And without this know-how would he not have risen in price?

[Rus2012]

Quote: seregatara1969

here probably the rumble is

... rather "itch"

[regsSSSR]

seregatara1969
here probably the rumble is

still what! I had to repeatedly observe in childhood, moreover, practically at the emphasis of impressions on my whole life, especially when you do not understand what is happening at all))!

the video (not mine) was shot from the area of ​​the village of Starbeevo from the right bank of the Moscow Canal on the horizon the same famous Khimki forest))) through which the new St. Petersburg autobahn was laid.
there, the man in a panic for 40 seconds utters a terrible word (dimethylhydrazine (heptyl) comrade is clearly not aware that he has been satisfied for a long time since the end of the 50s heptyl has not been used to test these engines, but they work like they rely on cuirassine, which, however, does not save at all from precipitation and an impressive roar standing around. and here, by the way, very interesting pictures of the stand itself and the test site made in the 90s crawled onto the territory of the energomash of a group of adventurers)) http://o001oo.ru/index.php?showtopic=54289

[svp67]

This means that a rocket engine can be created on this basis. But how will thin electronics react to a constant "shake-up"?

[Muvka]

I'm not special in this topic, but where did you get the idea that there would be a shake-up? It seems to me, and as it is written, the explosions will be in a special chamber. But it is not known how it will be felt outside this camera. On the computer, too, everything at 0 and 1 is calculated, but if you do not tell this, you will not even suspect. The example is crude, but the meaning should be clear)

[svp67]

Why do you need a shake-up, because there will be an EXPLOSION, something similar happened with the Germans at the FAU-1, where because of this they were forced to take the direct-flow engine behind the fuselage and put it on powerful shock absorbers, but this did not always save, the equipment very often failed.

[AdekvatNICK]

Do you really think that ours doesn’t cope with some kind of shake-up?

[dauria]

the Germans at the FAU-1, there they were forced to make a ramjet engine because of this

The Argus engine was pulsating, not ramjet. Well, here you are, you are not worried about the work of 4 cylinders of a passenger car. Everything will depend, among other things, on the frequency of "explosions" and on the resonant frequencies of the structure ... And the principle of explosions itself is not described - if these are explosions in a ring with a "smooth" feed and one exhaust "window"? In the end, even the exhaust from the piston engine was used to create additional "jet" thrust so that it would not be wasted. (For example, on Bf-109)

[sir_obs]

Itself made pvrd of stainless steel and put it on the model. And the model with the fuselage of a wooden battens and with wooden stoles trimmed with balsa veneer, flew beautifully and did not fall apart.
The pipe size is approximately 700 mm in length and 35 in diameter (combustion chamber).
The noise, however, is strong, without earplugs, it’s uncomfortable to stand nearby.

[The brightest]

svp67 Do you feel your heart twitching?

[gladcu2]

Well we will consider u to wait logically.


What is detonation? This is when the speed of propagation, or the rate of burning, expansion is high. Ie above the permissible, which can lead to destruction. Presumably, in some resumes, the operation of the engine sharply increases the burning rate, which leads to an increase in power at an acceptable efficiency. Moreover, the burning rate increases rapidly, when you can declare the effect of detonation.

By the way, it is very doubtful that detonation occurs at all stages of engine operation. Most likely in what interval.

Most likely in the declared engine

[Koshak]

Quote: Muvka

It seems to me, and as it is written, the explosions will be in a special chamber. But it is not known how it will be felt outside this camera.

And what, the camera is in no way connected with the rest of the design?

[Muvka]

Well, as said above, the engine is also connected to the rest of the machine. But it doesn’t seem to shake.

[gladcu2]

It is connected with the construction, but the detonation energy does not lead to destruction, but to translational motion.

Well, vibration may be, but a resonant counterbalance is struggling with it,. They create conditions for the fluctuations to be agreed upon.

[Rus2012]

Quote: svp67

So you can

... in fact, the so-called. "detonation-on-combustion" is always inherent in the "oxygen-kerosene" pair.
Previously, they tried to "not enter this mode", because it was always fraught with uncontrolled explosions with the destruction of equipment.
Now, it turns out that they have learned to "controllably detonate", i.e. essentially superimpose on "smooth combustion" - "detonation phenomena" in order to cause wave resonance in certain conditions and modes ... I believe that there are relatively "high-frequency detonations", which are actually "invisible" to the rest of the equipment ... In this case, combustion processes are improved and the maximum possible efficiency of the engine (or a pair of fuel components) is selected.

PS: I remember the "detonations" on the DO "Buran". Although they were very good. rare, but GenConstructor Lozino-Lozinsky then even forbade them to be turned on in the first flight with the words: "I just didn't have enough exploding engines on the ship!"

[Days]

Quote: svp67

This means that a rocket engine can be created on this basis. But how will thin electronics react to a constant "shake-up"?

The word "detonation" does not mean the explosion of a land mine in the combustion chamber, it is just another way of burning fuel. The frequency of the "blast waves" is quite sound, visually the flame is usually stable, which is perfectly visible on the test record.

So do not worry, the new pepelats will not jump from the explosions.

[Muvka]

And so we certainly gas station, no more ...

[Boa kaa]

And this is essentially a breakthrough to interplanetary flights!
Generally fantastic!
Explosions (albeit of low power) in the chamber, controlled by ...
Well, what heat-resistant, while shock-holding materials should be !?
And what software should be in order to describe the physics of the process in order to control it !!!
Well, damn it! Taking off my hat!

[Muvka]

Well, even the heir to Sarmat will be easier and more powerful, as it is written in the article;)

[Rus2012]

Quote: Muvka

Well, even the heir of Sarmat will be easier and more powerful, as it is written

... and on Sarmat - "oxygen-kerosene"?

There, rather, UDMH + AK with tetraoxide, i.e. self-igniting components for which such a problem with detonation is not observed ...
Rather, it is a "journalistic pearl" ...

[Muvka]

Well, it is written that more power, less consumption. So there will be kerosene hydrogen. Or am I not understanding something? Is it a replacement for today's engines on all kinds of toxic fuels?

[mr.redpartizan]

Such engines are suitable for promising launch vehicles that use oxygen as an oxidizing agent.

[Lelek]

No fiction - the same principle of burning fuel, which means you need to drag its supply. That's when the principle of a dvigun without a fuel tank will be found, then fiction will turn into real progress.

[mr.redpartizan]

There is a way - the use of nuclear rocket engines with hydrogen as a working fluid. But it can only be used in space for obvious reasons. While there is no alternative to chemical engines and will not be for a long time.

[You Vlad]

If I’m not confusing, ours have already created such an engine! Because of it, graters started from the USA!

[AdekvatNICK]

then the hashtech # OUR SPACE is available immediately)

[Boa kaa]

when the principle of a dvigun without a fuel tank is found, then fiction will translate into real progress. yes

It remains to harness the gravitational field or the torsion field, curb black matter ... well, it's as simple as that! After all, ionic, atomic movers are already working ...
And even better, as in "Dune" to warp space, or as in "Star Trek" - went into subspace and all "abgemacht"!
And this is instead to appreciate the breakthrough of our scientists, designers, engineers and technicians who embodied all this in metal.
After all, the Amy were pushing in this direction, however ... the steam went off the whistle, unlike our Kulibins.
So, we have what we have ...

[KaPToC]

It is easy to control the gravitational field, no more difficult than electromagnetic.

[gridasov]

It is impossible to build a mathematical model of physical processes on functions of a variable value of a number, if only because the process is complex and interconnected in its structure. In addition, developing by algorithms and highly dynamic. Therefore, the fact that the new engine uses hydrocarbon components suggests that it will not work to achieve a high flux density and concentration. Fuel must be one-component and its energy ability must be shown in a completely different way.

[gladcu2]

Udav

For between planetary, want to use the power of a nuclear explosion.

Knocking increases engine efficiency with a smaller wearable amount of fuel. But, the assertion that detonation works in all engine modes raises serious doubts. Since the engine in this case can be even more complicated than the existing ones.

[Alexander S.]

When they nevertheless create an engine ... the main thing is to make money on it .... until others have done their job. Stop distributing everything ... otherwise they would give away TVs for free .. computers and so on. Of all you need to fish out profits .. from other countries.

[Bayonet]

. And then they gave away TVs for free .. computers and so on.

Amused! Hmm ... like during the fight against cosmopolitanism What wheel did not add?

[gladcu2]

Bayonet

Dumb, these liberals. They just can't learn to live according to the principle "You are me, I am you" Everyone strives "You are for me, I am for myself"
Egoists

[Banishing liberoids]

"global importance" - the first in this world order will of course be China.

[Mountain shooter]

This is a real breakthrough. The characteristics of modern liquid-propellant rocket engines have already "rested", more of them will not work. Detonation engines have better specific characteristics (less weight, more thrust for the same fuel consumption), but are extremely difficult to operate and also in understanding how to design them. If ours can create such engines more reliably, the launch vehicles will launch more cargo for less money, and ICBMs will become lighter and with a greater combat load. By the way, there are such developments with atmospheric oxygen that can replace expensive turbojet engines!

[Muvka]

Well, fuel is also safe and probably cheaper ...

[Bayonet]

In 2013, the Experimental Design Bureau. The cradles tested an experimental reduced sample of a pulsating resonant detonation engine with a two-stage combustion of a kerosene-air mixture. During the tests, the average measured thrust of the power plant was about one hundred kilograms, and the duration of continuous operation was more than ten minutes. During the experiments, the new engine was repeatedly turned on and off, as well as traction control.
According to the design office, detonation engines will increase the thrust-weight ratio of aircraft by 1,5–2 times. Work on the creation of pulsating detonation engines has been underway in Russia since 2011.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Bayonet

Work on the creation of pulsating detonation engines has been underway in Russia since 2011.

Mai Kai ... and much earlier than 2011 year ...
High Frequency Resonance IDD Circuit


Kazan PuVRD М135 was developed by the company "ENIX"

[gladcu2]

Something like a ramjet engine.
Probably the resonators were set with adjustment depending on the supplied volume of the mixture.

[Fregate]

NPO Energomash successfully tested a detonation liquid rocket engine (LRE) on environmentally friendly fuel

on fuel vapor oxygenkerosene

I did not understand this.

[Muvka]

Well, try to pour kerosene on the grass or animal, and then asymmetric dimethylhydrazine as well. You can understand the difference .... Well, about the second, better on the grass. She’s not so sorry.

[mr.redpartizan]

Great news. Engines based on the detonation principle of fuel combustion can significantly increase the specific impulse of the engine, as the detonation velocity is several times higher than the velocity of the flow of gases from the nozzle of a conventional rocket engine. Fuel economy with similar traction will be significant.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

This is a real breakthrough. The characteristics of modern liquid-propellant rocket engines have already "rested", more of them will not work. Detonation engines have better specific characteristics (less weight, more thrust for the same fuel consumption), but are extremely difficult to operate and also in understanding how to design them. If ours can create such engines more reliably, the launch vehicles will launch more cargo for less money, and ICBMs will become lighter and with a greater combat load. By the way, there are such developments with atmospheric oxygen that can replace expensive turbojet engines!

can become a replacement for expensive turbojet engines!

It is unlikely that a turbojet engine is cheaper, and cheap ramjet engines have already been used

[CheByrashka]

The fairy tale has come true and this is a fact. I remember reading about similar developments by scientists from Anenerbe before. But then it was not possible to create something that worked normally. And the development is very promising.

[BOB044]

Well done, happy to keep it up.

[vmo]

Well done and clever !!!!!

[AdekvatNICK]

But I did not know that there is a VO on the android) well done.

[Kernel]

The velocity of the outflow of gases from the nozzle, with a single detonation pulse, corresponds to 2000 m / s. And what is the rate of gas outflow from the nozzle of a conventional rocket engine?

[mr.redpartizan]

Depends on fuel and oxidizer, but usually exceeds 3-3,5 km / s in the atmosphere.

[Blackmokona]

For the first time in the world, they love to lie.
http://www.fundamental-research.ru/ru/article/view?id=32641

The leading position in the development of detonation engines is held by the specialized center Seattle Aerosciences Center (SAC), acquired in 2001 by Pratt and Whitney from Adroit Systems. Most of the center’s work is financed by the Air Force and NASA from the budget of the interagency program Integrated High Payoff Rocket Propulsion Technology Program (IHPRPTP), aimed at creating new technologies for various types of jet engines.
In total, since 1992, SAC specialists have carried out over 500 bench tests of experimental samples. Atmospheric oxygen pulsed detonation engine (PDE) operations are being commissioned by the US Navy.

[Blackmokona]

And even in Russia already experienced

The Lyulka Research and Development Bureau developed, manufactured and tested a prototype of a pulsating resonant detonation engine with a two-stage combustion of a kerosene-air mixture. According to ITAR-TASS, the average measured engine thrust was about one hundred kilograms, and the duration of continuous operation was more than ten minutes.

https://lenta.ru/news/2013/09/24/pulse/
2013 news!

[Days]

This is also about a pulsating jet engine, in an article about something else.

[behemot]

Well, let's see who is the first to begin practical use.
but as in that joke about two old men, Ivan Ivanovich in his 90s says that he and the women are doing fine - well, so you, Petr Petrovich, say.

[pimen]

somehow it is doubtful about a noticeable increase in parameters: on the one hand, explosive combustion is faster burning, on the other hand, it can only be controlled in portions, i.e. time spread. Most likely, this will work out

[Orionvit]

Quote: seregatara1969

here probably the rumble is

You would think that conventional rocket engines purr like kittens. Rumble for 180 decibels and vibrations with loads beyond the limits. That is the high space technology, the ability to curb this huge power.

[Operator]

A detonation engine differs from a turbojet (rocket) in its simplicity of design - the absence of a compressor and a turbine (turbocharged unit).

Efficiency and weight return of the detonation engine are several times worse than turbojet (rocket) due to incomplete combustion of fuel and an order of magnitude greater pressure in the combustion chamber.

Cut the budget, cho.

[Days]

Did you read Wikipedia about the pulsating jet engine (also sometimes called detonation engine)? Congratulations, but the article is a little about something else.

[Operator]

Detonation of the fuel mixture occurs under "slightly" more pressure than combustion (see at least your Wikipedia)

[cedar]

Quote: Dagen

Did you read Wikipedia about the pulsating jet engine (also sometimes called detonation engine)? Congratulations, but the article is a little about something else.

If possible, clarify to the end, about the brothers in mind from the USA, what have they been doing since 1992, are they the same engine or not ..?

"...

Quote: BlackMokona

In total, since 1992, SAC specialists have carried out over 500 bench tests of experimental samples. Atmospheric oxygen pulsed detonation engine (PDE) operations are being commissioned by the US Navy.

"

[Blackmokona]

Preoccupied with what we do.

Pulse detonation engine (Pulse detonation engine, Eng. Pulse detonation engine, PDE) - a type of engine in which the combustion of a mixture of fuel and oxidizer occurs by detonation, rather than deflagration, as in conventional engines. [1] [2] The engine is pulsed, because after passing the detonation wave through the combustion chamber, updating the fuel-oxidation mixture is required. Theoretically, the IDD is operable in the range from subsonic to hypersonic speeds (about 4-5 Mach) [3]. An ideal IDD can have a thermodynamic efficiency higher than a turbojet engine and a turbofan engine due to the fact that the detonation wave compresses the mixture faster and heats it with virtually no change in volume. Consequently, many moving parts, such as a compressor, are optional, reducing weight and cost. IDDs have been studied for over 70 years. [4] Main problems: fast and efficient mixing of fuel and oxidizer, prevention of spontaneous combustion, integration of nozzle and air intake.

Serially not produced, but several test engines were demonstrated on low-speed aircraft in 2008.

There is a similar version of the Rotating Detonation Engine (RDE) in which continuous undamped detonation occurs in an annular combustion chamber. [5] [6]

The principle of operation is similar to pulsating jet engines.

[Days]

Quote: cedar

If possible, clarify to the end, about the brothers in mind from the USA, what have they been doing since 1992, are they the same engine or not ..?

I can only say what I read during my regular visits to forums on near-space topics (ie the same thing that you yourself can find after spending a little time): what comrade BlackMokona writes about, exposing the "false achievements" of Russian science - it's about the air engine (i.e. the oxidizer from the air intake, for aircraft). And in the article about the rocket engine, i.e. Comrade BlackMokona got a little confused, but it is forgivable for people who want to scold Russia with all their might. Especially now, when there are no minuses on the topvar. This is how the pepelats looks like, which was tested in the USA:

[Blackmokona]

Do you understand what you wrote?

[Riv]

I read the article, read the comments ... How much nonsense on topvar recently!

What is an explosion? This is a process that takes place with a significant release of energy in a small volume in a short period of time and leading to shock and thermal effects on the environment. And detonation is a combustion mode in which a shock wave propagates through a substance, initiating chemical reactions. These are different things. Do you understand the difference? An explosion is not necessarily accompanied by detonation, because the blast wave may not initiate a chemical reaction. Accordingly, the detonation engine will not necessarily be used to operate a series of explosions.

Relatively speaking, for stable operation of a detonation rocket engine, it is enough that a blast wave created once propagates in the combusted mixture at the speed of its outflow from the nozzle. In its front, combustion accelerates. PROFIT. However, the propagation velocity of the combustion front in the gas is much lower than the velocity of the jet stream. This effect can be observed if too much oxygen is supplied to the gas burner. The flame will first come off the nozzle, then cotton will follow (here it is, detonation!) And the flame will go out. If you correctly select the composition of the combustible mixture and drill the nozzle, you can ensure that pops begin to repeat over and over again and even become continuous, your burner will rattle. Done. You have a detonation engine in your hands.

Actually there is nothing new in it and it is not clear why the people are so happy. About the bujet cut - quite the right opinion.

[Days]

And you, probably, doctor of technical sciences. in the field of rocketry and an ally of the unrecognized great designer Leonov? The same one who shoved articles everywhere with the headline "Russia has successfully tested Leonov's anti-gravity engine."

[cedar]

Quote: Riv

Actually there is nothing new in it and it is not clear why the people are so happy. About the bujet cut - quite the right opinion.

But it is said that if one is adapted to an aircraft, then the speed will increase significantly ...

[Riv]

Yeah ... Hundreds, thousands, millions of times! :)
The flow rate depends on the speed of movement of the molecules, and it, in turn, depends on the temperature of the gas (well, temperature is a measure of the speed of movement of particles of a body). And even if you turn inside out, and kerosene in oxygen will not burn hotter.
That is, how much fuel I took with me - and flew.

[vania122]

Late news
seven or five years ago. Before, very often I saw a characteristic trail of non-existent engines overhead.

[Flat5160]

But our science fiction writer A. Belyaev wrote about such engines in his novel "The Star of the CEC". Science fiction becomes reality!

[shinobi]

The highlight of this device in a vortex continuous detonation cycle in a valveless system. Well, yes, we are the first and most! And the Nazis were the first to break the idea into FAU-1.

[Connie]

Her engine was valve and French since the PMV.

[shinobi]

And who argues? Valveless was generally considered technically impossible for a long time.

[gridasov]

Only for some reason everyone forgets that both detonation and explosion occur in the radial propagation vector. Moreover, there are algorithms for the growth and decay of the process. This is why the mathematical model is so important. Without taking into account such factors, everything will be similar to pulling a holey blanket. I’m warming there, it’s cold there!

[Cry]

The speed of an aircraft rocket depends on the speed of the jet from the nozzle. In the detonation engine, it is higher than Mach speed, and this is the whole highlight. For the dull: this is when it breaks through the sound barrier, i.e. This is an engine for hypersonic missiles.

[Sealek]

According to specialists of the enterprise engaged in research on the project, at present the work has moved from the stage of design studies and modeling to the stage of fire tests. Based on the results of the calculation and theoretical work, three of the most promising options for the layout schemes of demonstrators of the latest engines, theoretically capable of significantly surpassing the existing world developments in specific characteristics, were created.

During the tests in July-August of this year, the first two full-size detonation rocket launchers in Russia were first recorded in the world steady-state regimes of continuous spin detonation with a rotation frequency of transverse detonation waves of about 20 kHz on an oxygen-kerosene fuel pair.
In these tests, it was possible to obtain a different number of detonation waves balancing the vibrational and shock loads of each other.

In addition, the cooperation of the institutes managed to achieve the demonstrators' operability during several launches under extreme detonation loads and ultrahigh temperatures. This was made possible through specially developed by the Center. M.V. Keldysh for the needs of the project of thermal protective coatings of a unique composition.

[Sealek]

ENVIRONMENTALLY PURE METHOD FOR GAS BURNING
FUEL USING A QUASIOPTIC MICROWAVE BEAM


Subject of study.
The problem of developing low-emission combustion chambers with a reduced emission of nitrogen oxides NOx operating on natural or liquefied gas is considered. The possibility of burning particularly poor fuel mixtures was studied. To initiate ignition and stabilize combustion, a discharge generated by quasi-optical microwave radiation is used.

The main results.
Upon initiation of ignition by a streamer discharge, an increase in the burning rate of approximately four times was obtained in comparison with conventional spark ignition and a significant increase in the completeness of combustion. The streamer ignition of a particularly lean air-fuel mixture with an oxidizer excess coefficient greater than the ignition limit under normal conditions is demonstrated. Judging by indirect signs, when initiating combustion with a microwave discharge created by quasi-optical radiation, the ignition is non-thermal in nature. A microwave discharge excites oxygen atoms, as a result of which powerful ultraviolet radiation is generated, which causes the formation of a cold nonequilibrium plasma with an avalanche-like increase in the number of free electrons. The streamer discharge propagates at a speed of the order of 5 km / s; therefore, ignition is initiated immediately throughout the volume. The temperature of the fuel mixture at the place of ignition initiation does not exceed 400 K. Due to the absence of regions of high temperature during combustion that are responsible for the Zeldovich’s thermal mechanism of NOx formation, as well as due to the high burning rate, as a result, the Fenimore mechanism of formation of “fast NOx ", apparently, the formation of NOx in significant quantities is excluded. Energy costs are comparable to spark ignition.

Practical significance.
The technology under study is intended for implementation in the field of internal combustion engines, energy gas turbines, gas turbine gas pumping units operating on natural gas.

[Vadim237]

In internal combustion engines, they already wanted to use laser and plasma ignition, but alas - the soot and combustion products of the working mixture that cover the entire combustion chamber would reduce the efficiency of these systems to zero and lead to complete inoperability - the quasi-optical microwave emitter is waiting for the same .

[Tolstoevsky]

to bring more comfort and warmth to the homes of our western partners

[Diviz]

They promised to make an engine on liquefied gas. Kerosene for an engine is needed with certain characteristics which is costly.
But okay. these are step engines and then ion-plasma for flight to Mars. Just how much can you wait. Politics and economics have already been tortured.

[alpamys]

Quote: Armagedon

Hmm ... The campaign of mystery 3 Reich begin to open slightly ... !!! Victor Schuberger's vortex engine ... Intriguing ... !!!

and most importantly it works

[alpamys]

Quote: gridasov

You are absolutely right that Schauberger remains misunderstood. However, even though he himself did not openly describe the principles of operation of his turbine, he very often described the properties of the fuel that his devices converted. However, its engine can be further optimized for various applications.

I personally met with Schauberger’s grandson, as well as with the only student who he had after the war (he was at his home visiting), and also held Viktor Schauberger’s crafts in his hands.

[gridasov]

It is a great honor for me to come into contact with you, even at the forum. Genius and his works must be really studied in contact with his original creations and writings. Therefore, I once again note that I rather studied Schauberger’s ideology, and only then I realized what and by what methods he achieved. And now I can say that we could create a much more efficient engine, according to Schauberger, but with its ideology of organizing the process. And even more so, we introduced mathematics into the technology and organization of the process and the manufacture of units and parts. Especially the rotor.

[alpamys]

And now I can say that we could create a much more efficient engine, according to Schauberger, but with its ideology of organizing the process. And even more so, we introduced mathematics into the technology and organization of the process and the manufacture of units and parts. Especially the rotor.

I don’t know who you mean by WE, I’ll just say that the myths about B211 are not the same myths, and Schauberger created the working engine back in the early 20s.

[gridasov]

In this case, it does not matter which pronouns are used. And the fact that the engine worked I have no doubt. Let others learn to separate myths from reality. For me, this issue has been resolved. We have already made the key elements of the rotor, which are very different in form from those of Schauberger, but further optimize the physical process. At the same time, ensuring all stages is very important. This is the entrance stages and graduation. I would even say that neglect of each of them causes the loss of all positive extremes in others. Therefore, everything should be very harmonized and coordinated.

[DimerVladimer]

They will solve the problems of non-destruction from vibration loads on a full-size engine, and not on a bench demonstrator - honor and praise!

[gridasov]

They won't decide! They have no idea about the boundary limits of the possibility of this or that process algorithm. And in general, everything is fundamentally not logical, so the consequence is the duration of the experiments, and especially the correction of errors due to other processes that also change their best performance. In other words, this is an endless "pounding of water in a mortar." Before a person finds that door in a dark room into which he wants to enter, he must find the right door that corresponds to the tasks set and its relevance and timeliness. But this is from GOD!

[OlegLex]

Oh how wrapped !!! and most importantly what are the rationales

They have no idea about the boundary limits of the possibility of one or another algorithm of processes.

Well, where did you get such conclusions?
And so he took indiscriminately and called the designers with Energomash idiots

[gridasov]

Why indiscriminately. I have repeatedly described problems and obscenities. analysis of the inability to describe complex physical processes. If you believe that there is a technique for describing the same turbulent physical processes or explosive ones, then they are known and do not give results. You are not even able to take into account the complex of processes associated with the transformation of hydro-gas-dynamic flows, and therefore you are looking for compositions that would give a sufficient energy density in the conversion of this flow. If I’m wrong, then you probably don’t know the key problems of science, as well as the level of its achievements. Therefore, personally, I do not allow myself sweeping.

[Vadim237]

"If you believe that there is a method for describing the same turbulent physical processes or explosive processes, then they are known and do not give results. You are not even able to take into account the complex of processes associated with the transformation of hydro-gas dynamic flows, and therefore you are looking for compositions that would give sufficient energy density in the transformation of this flow "- There is such a science of hydroaerodynamics, that's where everything connected with your" unknown "processes is available.

[gridasov]

Well, if there is, so why do nonsense. Is it really not clear what should be fuel and how to get energy from it.

[OlegLex]

bad article about the good news, bad because it gives too little information, but they are testing a new engine and this is good, and then what? what are the prospects, what is the difference with the existing ones, well, except that the kerosene in it is described as environmentally friendly ??? fuel, no, of course, compared to highly toxic rocket fuel, it certainly is, but I’m just an amateur in rocket science, but as a military man, I can say for sure that high toxicity for weapons is by no means an indicator that they will fight hard. Here is the price yes.
Comments were frankly amused, and about the roar of rockets, and about the Third Reich, and about the vibrations from detonation. No, it certainly drives the school curriculum, however, like the curriculum of technical universities, and it is on the basis of their own knowledge that the writers make some conclusions and assumptions, only rocket science is such a technically narrow direction that it is not for us to talk about it to amateurs. (referring to the purely technical side)

[gridasov]

Quote: alpamys

And now I can say that we could create a much more efficient engine, according to Schauberger, but with its ideology of organizing the process. And even more so, we introduced mathematics into the technology and organization of the process and the manufacture of units and parts. Especially the rotor.

I don’t know who you mean by WE, I’ll just say that the myths about B211 are not the same myths, and Schauberger created the working engine back in the early 20s.

[Alex1977RUS]

Quote: Riv

Yeah ... Hundreds, thousands, millions of times! :)
The flow rate depends on the speed of movement of the molecules, and it, in turn, depends on the temperature of the gas (well, temperature is a measure of the speed of movement of particles of a body). And even if you turn inside out, and kerosene in oxygen will not burn hotter.
That is, how much fuel I took with me - and flew.

Well, first tell it to trinitrotoluene. Which burns badly and soot and explodes well.
And secondly, 10% fuel economy is enough.
The mass of fuel of the first stage of the Proton, so, by the way - a little more than 400 tons. More precisely - 414 and a half tons.
10%, respectively, forty-one and a half tons. The second stage is one hundred and fifty-five and a half tons of refueling, and accordingly fifteen and a half tons of savings. Well, and the third stage is about forty-five tons of fuel with an oxidizing agent, there are about five tons of savings. And yes, I know that Proton flies on heptyl, and not on kerosene.
Now attention is the question
without considering a ten-percent increase in the rate of outflow, reducing the mass of engines and so on, saving only about sixty tons on fuel economy, that is, on the possibility of pouring sixty tons less, while maintaining all the parameters, how much we have removed mass, it’s also payload ?
This despite the fact that he is so, by the way at NOU 23 tons can pull out TOTAL?
For such an increase in the ass until the end of life they will kiss. And thanks again to say.