Military Review

NI: sooner or later, Russia will learn to pinpoint the location of "stealth aircraft" with high accuracy

150
An American analyst Mike Kofman, in an interview with The National Interest, suggested how opposition between defensive (Russian air defense systems) and offensive (“invisible airplanes” F-35, F-22) weapons would develop.




"Russian missiles capable of carrying warheads, advanced radars and systems trying to integrate large data arrays to provide powerful air defense - these are the means that will ultimately contribute to the division of the Western air force into two branches," the analyst quotes RIA News.

In his opinion, when such systems fall into the hands of a likely adversary, “in the Western Air Force there will be a division into the front line Aviationcapable of breaking through the enemy’s sophisticated air defense systems, such as "invisible planes," and bombing aircraft such as aircraft that strike at terrorist positions. "

Kofman noted that “stealth technology does not make planes invisible to radar, and Russian air defense systems C-300, C-400 and C-500 can detect subtle planes like the F-22 or F-35, but long-wave radar radar systems have low accuracy and are easy to spot and destroy. ” That is, the Russian air defense "cannot yet provide guaranteed detection and destruction of low-profile aircraft," he believes.

Nevertheless, in the Russian Federation are actively working to solve this problem. “A number of technologies are being tested, in particular, a network of radar closely integrated with each other, capable of assessing the position of the same aircraft from different points, is being developed,” the analyst said.

“The ability to see the aircraft or its parts is good, but the main thing is to achieve accuracy, which guarantees that the missile hits the target,” he stressed.

According to Kofman, the benefits of stealth technology are not so obvious.

“Sooner or later, Moscow will find a solution to the“ invisible ”problem and the endless cyclical confrontation between offensive and defensive weapons will continue. It’s just a matter of time, ”he concluded.
Photos used:
Flickr / US Air Force
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  1. cniza
    cniza 20 August 2016 12: 11
    +32
    “Sooner or later, Moscow will find a solution to the“ invisible ”problem and the endless cyclical confrontation between offensive and defensive weapons will continue. It’s just a matter of time, ”he concluded.


    Without fail, this task will be solved, but something tells you that already, our shield is ahead of your sword by several steps.
    1. DIVAN SOLDIER
      DIVAN SOLDIER 20 August 2016 12: 15
      +1
      And in Syria, why weren’t they then shot down?
      1. Nick
        Nick 20 August 2016 12: 31
        +13
        Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER
        And in Syria, why weren’t they then shot down?

        No team received.
        1. DIVAN SOLDIER
          DIVAN SOLDIER 20 August 2016 12: 35
          +1
          So they violated the border of a sovereign state, should be shot down. The Syrian government did not give them permission to fly.
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother 20 August 2016 12: 46
            +15
            Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER
            So they violated the border of a sovereign state, should be shot down. The Syrian government did not give them permission to fly.

            The Syrian government has no desire to have a bite, to the heap, also with the Americans.
          2. sdc_alex
            sdc_alex 20 August 2016 13: 28
            +5
            I’ll tell you a secret, in general, in world practice, for violating the borders of a sovereign state usually planes do not shoot down. Diplomatic scandal, all kinds of notes of protest, etc. - yes. the Americans did not attack or attack the Syrian Air Force. The fact that they feel themselves too freely at the territory of someone else’s home is outrageous, but so far does not give rise to an open military clash between Syria and the United States.
          3. Dam
            Dam 20 August 2016 17: 02
            +1
            The Syrian government does not have a s-400, while ours are not yet ready for a direct conflict
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 20 August 2016 12: 41
        +3
        Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER
        And in Syria, why weren’t they then shot down?

        There was no order.
        1. tomket
          tomket 20 August 2016 12: 48
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          There was no order.

          And the order from whom should come?
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 20 August 2016 21: 36
            0
            From the General Staff.
      3. VEK2021
        VEK2021 20 August 2016 12: 45
        +3
        And why was it necessary, what is the point? The forces of the SAR and our VKS and so go on to the task. First, it is necessary to eliminate ISIS and all others there, and then it will be seen.
      4. BARKAS
        BARKAS 20 August 2016 12: 51
        +1
        Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER
        And in Syria, why weren’t they then shot down?

        Only the Turks promised to shoot down after the SU-24 they shot down and they would fly!
        1. DIVAN SOLDIER
          DIVAN SOLDIER 20 August 2016 12: 54
          +1
          Everything will go so far that the Americans themselves will knock someone over, and ours will seek evidence that they did not threaten the Americans))
      5. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 20 August 2016 13: 22
        +1
        Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER
        And in Syria, why weren’t they then shot down?

        Have you tried? request
      6. NDR-791
        NDR-791 20 August 2016 15: 57
        +1
        But they saw it !!! We have been seeing for a long time. Evidence from Yugoslavia on TV footage. And the equipment, to put it mildly, is the second third of the last century. At the same time, the F-35 is an overweight and overworked analogue of the F-22. So Mr. Kofman is once again preparing the American people for the "protracted race for the wealth of corporations," because it is no secret to anyone that an "analyst" without a position and rank is just a balabol on a salary.
        1. fif21
          fif21 20 August 2016 17: 31
          +1
          I agree with you. The legend of invisible air targets, crashed into the laws of physics and the principles of location (and not just radio!) hi
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 20 August 2016 18: 49
            0
            If you imagine that air defense systems tend to work on a unidirectional disturbance beam that is not sent and not reflected, and this is for well-known reasons, then you can just as well imagine that an aircraft with a controlled potential equal to the disturbance potential from the radar can simply transform it or even level out. Since it remains only to control the ionization process on the surface of the aircraft
      7. tanit
        tanit 20 August 2016 16: 35
        +2
        But the soldier sits on the couch and thinks - how else to fight, not getting up from the couch ....
      8. tanit
        tanit 20 August 2016 16: 36
        0
        But the soldier sits on the couch and thinks - how else to fight, not getting up from the couch ....
      9. RUSIVAN
        RUSIVAN 20 August 2016 17: 34
        +2
        And whoever said that they would be shot down every time, our President directly said that the S-400s were installed there to ensure the security of the Russian Air Force group and the personnel of the air base, and not to shoot down everyone who flies in the sky ... you better we’ll get acquainted with the text, and then they would get hysterical if the American plane threatened Russian pilots, it would be destroyed and we don’t have a military conflict with NATO to bring down any of their aircraft whenever possible ...
    2. Andrey K
      Andrey K 20 August 2016 12: 32
      +10
      NI: sooner or later, Russia will learn with high accuracy to determine the location of "stealth aircraft"

      An article of this analyte could possibly have been given some attention ....
      Unless you raise the question: And based on what data, this super-specialist concluded that our radars do not accurately determine the location of "invisible planes" ...
      I suspect that this "special" is not that he did not stand next to the listed equipment, but even out of the corner of his eye I did not see the technical documentation ...
      1. quote
        quote 20 August 2016 12: 40
        0
        Coffman, number sixteen, predicted!
        That's it! Victory, code F-22!
        But for the Papuans and F-15, "heaven's punishment"!
        At the "ameropois", in the white house, after the "killer-analytical" article, a party! EVERYONE is walking!
        Around the bonfire.
      2. Asadullah
        Asadullah 20 August 2016 12: 55
        +3
        I suspect that this "special" is not that he did not stand next to the listed technique, but I did not even see the technical documentation out of the corner of my eye ..


        No, he operates with official data. RCS F-22 and F-35 are respectively 0,0001 and 0,001 square meters. Declared characteristics. What limits the work of "esok". The question is that they are declared in sterile conditions. And the board does not fly in ideal conditions, but for the operation of modern air defense, ideal conditions that arise from time to time are the norm.

        In addition, personally, I highly doubt these EPRs. If anyone knows more, it would be nice to hear.
        1. Retvizan
          Retvizan 20 August 2016 22: 54
          +2
          for the same fiscal year 2008, the total cost of one hour of F-22 flight, including variable, fixed and other indirect costs, amounted to $ 44. While for the F-259, the same indicator amounted to $ 15
          As for the complexity of maintenance, the F-22 is not excessively high and is 30 man-hours for 1 hour of flight
          But the main part of the costs and time falls on the coverage. A golden plane in the literal sense (weight corresponds to the price of gold) constantly needs specialists (payment is quite high, about a hundred thousand dollars) for coverage.
          So
          Quote: Asadullah
          The question is that they are declared under sterile conditions. And the board does not fly in ideal conditions,

          rain, other precipitation, climatic and weather conditions do not affect the performance of the F-22 Raptor radar absorbing coatings in any way, but the problem was that this coating was kept half as much as it was intended. However, it is a question of solving this problem and constantly improving the quality of the coating, which made it possible to increase the combat readiness of the F-22 to 68%
          No one knows the full picture. And the combat situation is not a simulator.
          1. Asadullah
            Asadullah 21 August 2016 00: 22
            0
            rain, other precipitation, climatic and weather conditions do not affect the performance of radar absorbing coatings


            No, of course, we mean the electromagnetic processes of the troposphere and underlying surface. By the way, even at the dawn of stealth, Americans were looking for a method of creating auroral phenomena during the movement of aircraft. As I understand it, Russia succeeded in this all the same.
          2. gridasov
            gridasov 21 August 2016 09: 47
            0
            The answer is illogical because the level of dynamic relative relationships is not considered. That is, at a standing or low speed, you can not take into account the properties of the external environment, but at high speeds the ionization phenomenon occurs, which dramatically changes the picture and the distribution system of magnetic force flows.
      3. meriem1
        meriem1 20 August 2016 13: 01
        +2
        Quote: Andrey K
        “The ability to see the aircraft or its parts is good, but the main thing is to achieve accuracy, which guarantees that the missile hits the target,” he stressed.

        Moreover, he poorly understands another aspect !!!

        “The ability to see the aircraft or its parts is good, but the main thing is to achieve accuracy, which guarantees that the missile hits the target,” he stressed.

        he kicks. And our ammunition explodes nearby and they do not need to see the whole target. That is why they are good. This is what caused the almost guaranteed destruction of the target.
      4. KVIRTU
        KVIRTU 20 August 2016 18: 22
        +4
        Yes ... Very free translation of the original http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/americas-f-22-f-35-stealth-fighters-v
        s-russias-s-300-s-400-s-17394
        "America's F-22 and F-35 Stealth Fighters vs. Russia's S-300, S-400 and S-500: Who Wins?" from the 18th. I think everyone understood: who will win?
        In the original, the author asks this question more because 117, 22, 35 give a reflected (re-emitted, rather) echo signal at a level higher than the huge B-2 in the meter range (about 2 m.), Due to the close wavelength of the dimensions of all-metal glider elements (resonance, in general) . Those. invisible will still be detected (radar type P-18, 5N84, 55ZH6, etc.), although with little accuracy +/- 1000 ... 1500 m.
      5. lablizn
        lablizn 20 August 2016 19: 39
        +1
        ... And on the basis of what data, this super-specialist concluded that our radars do not accurately determine the location of "invisible aircraft" ...
        Based on the laws of reflection and refraction of radio waves. In the long-wavelength (relatively, of course) range, accuracy, due to precisely these factors, cannot be more accurate than a few meters. So did the old Soviet radars in Yugoslavia.
        In addition, they are quite bulky.
        The Yugoslavs were simply lucky to bring down the "invisible" one.
        Modern detection tools operate at significantly higher frequencies, but it is also easier to defend against them using well-known "stealth" technologies.
        To detect such objects with a high degree of spatial resolution, several stations are needed, and this is the main problem.
        1. KVIRTU
          KVIRTU 22 August 2016 10: 25
          0

          "Lucky" thanks to this locator.
    3. poquello
      poquello 20 August 2016 12: 34
      +3
      Quote: cniza
      “Sooner or later, Moscow will find a solution to the“ invisible ”problem and the endless cyclical confrontation between offensive and defensive weapons will continue. It’s just a matter of time, ”he concluded.


      Without fail, this task will be solved, but something tells you that already, our shield is ahead of your sword by several steps.

      the question is, well, how can one prove that they see and bring down? I didn’t hear that the Americans offer to bring down their planes
      1. Gray brother
        Gray brother 20 August 2016 13: 01
        +3
        Quote: poquello
        the question is, well, how can one prove that they see and bring down?

        It is not for nothing that the Americans stripped the radar absorbing coating from the F-22 when they drove them to Lithuania.
        If their planes were as "invisible" as they say, there would be no need for this procedure, because Russian radars would not have detected them anyway. Is not it?
        So, in fact, not everything is so rosy with them.
        1. poquello
          poquello 20 August 2016 13: 27
          +1
          Quote: Gray Brother
          Quote: poquello
          the question is, well, how can one prove that they see and bring down?

          It is not for nothing that the Americans stripped the radar absorbing coating from the F-22 when they drove them to Lithuania.
          If their planes were as "invisible" as they say, there would be no need for this procedure, because Russian radars would not have detected them anyway. Is not it?
          So, in fact, not everything is so rosy with them.

          Well, there may be a banal reason - their coverage requires constant maintenance, but they don’t have an analogue of our invisible rags
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother 20 August 2016 15: 40
            +1
            their coverage requires constant maintenance

            Well, you don’t start to peel all the paint off your own car, only because it can spoil on the road smile
    4. NIKNN
      NIKNN 20 August 2016 17: 22
      +2
      NI: sooner or later, Russia will learn with high accuracy to determine the location of "stealth aircraft"


      Well guys, what can I tell you ... request
      Do teleportation or something ... bully
    5. siberalt
      siberalt 20 August 2016 18: 38
      +3
      At the first detection of these "invisibles" from space, put a laser brand such as a barcode on them, then they will not leave the tax office! laughing
    6. Juborg
      Juborg 21 August 2016 00: 55
      +2
      Admins site is annoying. Navigation is not logical. Developer on the rack
      1. atakan
        atakan 21 August 2016 02: 10
        +1
        You probably weren’t in VKontakte yet, it’s annoying there.
  2. Monos
    Monos 20 August 2016 12: 12
    +10
    “A number of technologies are being tested now, in particular, a network of closely integrated radars is being developed that can assess the position of the same aircraft from different points,” the analyst said.


    This iksperd does not seem to have heard of the triangulation method.
    1. poquello
      poquello 20 August 2016 12: 36
      +7
      Quote: Monos
      “A number of technologies are being tested now, in particular, a network of closely integrated radars is being developed that can assess the position of the same aircraft from different points,” the analyst said.


      This iksperd does not seem to have heard of the triangulation method.

      This is an American song about the grandmas spent for good reason, and you about the method
  3. volan
    volan 20 August 2016 12: 12
    +5
    "Russian missiles capable of carrying warheads" - what's this? ))
  4. kot423
    kot423 20 August 2016 12: 15
    0
    Even in the Soviet Union found. C-125 is called.
  5. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 20 August 2016 12: 21
    +5
    Serbs at one time very accurately determined. Yes
  6. izya top
    izya top 20 August 2016 12: 21
    +2
    as I understand it, he asks for pennies again?
    1. atalef
      atalef 20 August 2016 12: 25
      +4
      Quote: iza top
      as I understand it, he asks for pennies again?

      Hello, Sculpting!
      Nothing like?
      For a good fee, Khoja Nasreddin took over twenty years to teach donkey literacy. The emir threatened to chop off Nasreddin’s head if the donkey doesn’t learn to read within the specified time. When asked Nasruddin how he took such a risk, he replied:
      - Nothing wrong. In twenty years, either the donkey will die, or the emir will die, or I will die!
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 20 August 2016 12: 44
        +7
        Quote: atalef
        . The emir threatened to chop off Nasreddin’s head if the donkey doesn’t learn to read within the specified time.

        The most interesting thing is that the Emirs have not become smarter since then.
      2. izya top
        izya top 20 August 2016 12: 50
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        Hello, Sculpting!

        healthy peysonos hi
        something is boring today on the site, neither about the Amer’s news submarine, nor about the neighbors request
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 20 August 2016 13: 12
          0
          Quote: izya top
          , nor about the neighboring paramogues

          Have neighbors overworked?
          1. izya top
            izya top 20 August 2016 13: 20
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Have neighbors overworked?

            as usual request fading into zrada recourse
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 20 August 2016 15: 09
              0
              And what happened then?
        2. Suhow
          Suhow 24 August 2016 13: 37
          0
          I apologize for the interference ... About peremogu-So this is a parade with us, the truth is (the main staff) is Soviet. but the dichtor said that we modernized it (Ukraine) although given the current government’s ability to dash, the dubious modernization consisted of painting .. . But I want to believe that not only in painting, time is changing and today the oaths are guilty of everything ... and tomorrow there are Romanians, Poles, or even the current owner of the Zapadensky elite-striped. Our elite reminds me of a corrupt woman .. I would like to use other words, but the censorship of VO thing is serious ..
  7. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 20 August 2016 12: 22
    0
    It is called “you won’t praise yourself, no one will praise you?” Back in the 90s, they were offered training fights against their stealths, they flatly refused. they pull out their hair on their ass.
    1. fif21
      fif21 21 August 2016 10: 49
      +2
      Well, why are you like that? request We invisible them, invisible! And when they turn up, we will suddenly see! Well, do not deprive the lady of illusions! wassat
  8. Victor-M
    Victor-M 20 August 2016 12: 33
    +2
    "Sooner or later Moscow will find a solution to the" invisible "problem

    Already found, but this is classified information, and we will not show it to you. wink laughing
  9. RUS69
    RUS69 20 August 2016 12: 38
    +1
    Stealth is not a panacea, but only one of the means of survivability of an aircraft in combat conditions ..
    At the expense of the difficulty of hitting targets with systems with 400-500 ... there is a clear conviction there will be no DIFFICULTY.
    These complexes are at least 10 years ahead of their time.
    The article is not correct at all ... how will the F35-22 break through the defense of air defense? Kamikaze ?? I’ve thought all my life that for the beginning of air defense it is destroyed and then the planes fly.
    I’m just curious to look at an experiment which Makar Squadron F35 will break through the defense of even the S-400 divisions with a detection range of 600 km, including the vaunted F-22, even if the accuracy of the defeat is not 100 and 60%, which in principle is already unrealistic a good half of the squadron will fall off already half way.
    And the rest will be finished after reloading :)))
  10. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 20 August 2016 12: 39
    +3
    Israel also thinks so. Systems for detecting, tracking and
    destroy the current "stealth" F-22 and F-35 will appear in a few years.
    But stealth technology does not stand still. Aircraft glider will be coated
    layers including electronic sensors that will accurately determine
    what waves enemy radars probe the plane. And correspondingly
    the coating will change its properties in order to absorb radiation as much as possible.

    ,
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 20 August 2016 12: 47
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Israel also thinks so. Systems for detecting, tracking and
      destroy the current "stealth" F-22 and F-35 will appear in a few years.

      Ha, I thought in Israel the defense industry moved forward, but not.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      respectively
      the coating will change its properties

      Especially on F 22 wassat
      1. Lex.
        Lex. 20 August 2016 12: 55
        +1
        Your drone got lost with us for half an hour, ours couldn’t shoot down 2 patriots rockets all past even the raised f-16 didn’t help, probably it was pulled to the homeland by an Israeli license an outpost is issued. So we have one expert Grankin thought that probably pushed the state radio station there stands its alien Israeli system which prevents the rocket from visiting
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 20 August 2016 13: 15
          0
          Quote: Lex.
          Our drone got lost for half an hour, we flew ours couldn’t shoot down 2 missiles a patriot all by, even the raised f-16 did not help

          We won’t be like that anymore winked
        2. sgazeev
          sgazeev 20 August 2016 17: 28
          0
          [quote] [/ quote] Our drone got lost for half an hour, we flew ours couldn’t shoot 2 missiles a patriot all past even the raised f-16 didn’t help, it was probably pulled to the homeland by an Israeli license an outpost is issued. So we have on state radio wreck one expert Grankin thought pushed probably there is an alien system of Israel that prevents the missile from visiting drinks
    2. tomket
      tomket 20 August 2016 12: 50
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Israel also thinks so. Systems for detecting, tracking and
      destroy the current "stealth" F-22 and F-35 will appear in a few years.
      But stealth technology does not stand still.

      The promise of the article, including to Israel, is as follows. The fact that you are buying f-35 is good, but do not relax there, soon you will have to fork out again.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 August 2016 16: 04
        0
        That's right. F-35 we will have a platform for many years, and now
        They think how to change it, given the future development of air defense.
        Fortunately, the software code is open for us, and its architecture is open (the only
        in the world so far). We must learn to deceive not the present, but the future
        air defense systems.
    3. Muvka
      Muvka 20 August 2016 12: 51
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Israel also thinks so. Systems for detecting, tracking and
      destroy the current "stealth" F-22 and F-35 will appear in a few years.
      But stealth technology does not stand still. Aircraft glider will be coated
      layers including electronic sensors that will accurately determine
      what waves enemy radars probe the plane. And correspondingly
      the coating will change its properties in order to absorb radiation as much as possible.

      ,

      Question amateur, and if irradiated with several types? After all, you can only fine-tune the material for one? And then this is fantastic. And at the same time, if the coating adjusts to one type of radiation, for another it will be like a Christmas tree on New Year's Eve.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 August 2016 16: 07
        0
        The layer must absorb all frequencies simultaneously, distinguishing them.
        How AFAR can work immediately on dozens of frequencies.
        1. TOR2
          TOR2 20 August 2016 17: 03
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The layer must absorb all frequencies at the same time,

          For a more or less acceptable effect, the layer height should be equal to a quarter of the wavelength.
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 20 August 2016 18: 36
            0
            Do you know why a quarter is a wavelength, and not more and not less?
            1. TOR2
              TOR2 20 August 2016 20: 51
              0
              In this case, the waves reflected by the surface of such an absorber are in antiphase.
          2. gridasov
            gridasov 20 August 2016 18: 36
            0
            Do you know why a quarter is a wavelength, and not more and not less?
        2. lablizn
          lablizn 20 August 2016 19: 52
          0
          Who told you that the phased array system operates at different frequencies?
          And how can you phase the frequency spectrum at all? A new discovery in wave physics?
    4. Operator
      Operator 20 August 2016 13: 27
      +1
      Question - what will you cover? laughing
    5. Asadullah
      Asadullah 20 August 2016 13: 30
      +2
      Aircraft glider will be coated
      layers including electronic sensors that will accurately determine
      what waves enemy radars probe the plane. And correspondingly
      the coating will change its properties in order to absorb radiation as much as possible.

      As if I, too, for the NTP, but let's talk sensibly. What is the basis of stealth technology? Geometric figure plus carbon molecules. What is the success of American technology? Composites that correctly orient these very carbon molecules. Any revolutionary solutions possible? Impossible, because nothing better than carbon black with epoxy has been found, even carbon solutions do not help. That is, the only evolution of stealth technologies is their cost reduction. Changing something in the composite is possible only by mechanically changing the configuration of the graphite crystals. But I'm sorry, it's not even fiction anymore. When mankind possesses such technologies, the memory of wars will become older than the memory of the Neanderthal's club ...
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 20 August 2016 15: 36
        0
        It is worth considering how the surface of a material with an embedded carbon structure behaves when the object is in a dynamic process of motion, and even in an environment that has its own physical properties. Therefore, what kind of invisibility are we talking about !! ??.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 August 2016 17: 15
        +2
        No, you are thinking in the wrong direction. Imagine being on a glider
        the aircraft is smeared / painted up with a giant multi-layer microcircuit.
        The so-called "smart" surface. And at night over your airfield
        a bright inscription flies by: "Well, hare, wait!" And your radar says: "nothing happened to you." belay
        1. bad
          bad 21 August 2016 05: 56
          +1
          heh ... cool .. laughing
    6. sir_obs
      sir_obs 20 August 2016 17: 17
      +2
      Energy does not arise from nowhere and does not disappear without a trace, it is physics. Therefore, even if something is absorbed there, it must transform somewhere, go into another state. And therefore it can also be seen, in some other range. They even managed to find black holes, although they do not radiate anything at all., But quite the contrary.
      The Americans have always relied on technology, assuming that the enemy will not prevail with such or counter-technologies. It works with the Papuans, but in the case of Russia, it works mainly in the cinema and for "analysts".
      And it is no coincidence that, for example, in the Navy, the Americans are beginning to practice our "grandfather's" methods, which have long been consigned to oblivion in the American Navy.
      My friend was on a visit to an American aircraft carrier and noticed that they, like us, are duplicating manual maneuvering calculations on paper tablets. He stands, talks, negro, sweats from an unusual tension and draws on the analogs of our plates, and the other is busy with a manual range finder. They began to understand that electronics is not a panacea. And then they even removed paper cards from the ships. Now we are thinking.
      1. Asadullah
        Asadullah 20 August 2016 19: 05
        +2
        Energy does not arise from nowhere and does not disappear without a trace, it is physics.


        In this case, the energies are very small and the question is not in transforming them, but in deceiving the feedback. It is impossible to deceive her completely, from that the computer of the electronic filling of the air defense makes thousands of measurements and "completes" the puzzles missing in the picture. This method is hundreds of times easier than tricky disguise. Moreover, today an air defense architecture is being designed at a different level, where the concept of target detection does not end with a group of air defense batteries, but is an echeloned, cluster system that collects and processes various data, from optics to satellite. Apparently this is what the author of the article meant. But in this case, we are talking about much more advanced things than banal target detection.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 20 August 2016 19: 33
          +1
          You, like others, correctly explain the concept that the analysis of large data collected from various systems for detecting a changed pulse allows you to optimize the search for an object that quickly changes its coordinates. But! Suntime methods of such analysis are cumbersome and energy consuming. Therefore, by changing the foundation of mathematical analysis of such data arrays, you can reduce everything to one "machine" with a minimum of energy expended on its operation.
          By the way, you know how to connect two different poles of a battery or an electric source. magnetic energy without losing potential in them, but with obtaining a different type of energy (in the form of angular momentum)
          1. Asadullah
            Asadullah 21 August 2016 00: 39
            0
            By the way, you know how to connect two different poles of a battery or an electric source. magnetic energy without losing potential in them, but with obtaining a different type of energy (in the form of angular momentum)


            No, I don’t know, I will be grateful if you enlighten. Frankly, I don’t even understand what causes an electric current between equipotentials, not to mention the alternating ...
  11. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 20 August 2016 12: 44
    +3
    Russian air defense “cannot yet ensure guaranteed detection and destruction of stealth aircraft”
    So then only in EMC wavelengths. And there are other fields: torsion, IR, optical spectrum ... Yes, and from space (view from above) in the optical range see, and if e / m perturbation of the lines of force of the Earth's magnetic field ...
    the main thing is to achieve accuracy, which ensures that the missile hits the target, "
    This is your "bullet to bullet". And with us - a cone of striking elements with a diameter of 40 m will cut your wunderwaffe with rods - just give it!
    "Sooner or later Moscow will find a solution to the 'invisible' problem ... It's just a matter of time."

    In short, again, taxpayer money wasted! Yes
  12. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 20 August 2016 12: 45
    +7
    A combination of long-wave radars (meter range, on which these "stealth" are visible like lanterns in the night), communication lines that allow you to quickly exchange information with launch complexes and interceptors. And when you know where to look, it is much easier to search and strike. So let's check if the S-300 complex hits the "penguin" or not. laughing
    And there is NOTHING to shoot at the "Raptors" in Syria by the Syrian army! And the "Predators" did not approach our planes. And to the Syrian. Wanguyu, if there were ours, they would NOT take the risk. Striped ears are distinguished by SELECTIVE bravery, if the threat is real, then fate will not be tempted.
  13. sub307
    sub307 20 August 2016 12: 46
    0
    "Sooner or later Moscow will find a solution to the" invisible "problem and the endless cyclical confrontation between offensive and defensive weapons will continue. It's only a matter of time" ... "
    "Late" is not necessary ... otherwise it may indeed be "late", the sooner the better.
  14. Operator
    Operator 20 August 2016 12: 47
    +7
    ZGRLS "Container" detects stealths for 3000 km.

    The first is already operating in Kovylkino (Mordovia) and covers the European theater of operations up to the British Isles. The second ends with the construction in 2017 in Zeya (Amur Region) and covers the Far Eastern theater, including China, South Korea and Japan.

    The third in Kalmykia will be covered by the Middle East theater of operations (Turkey, Syria, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, the Arabian Peninsula), and the fourth in Eastern Siberia - by the Central Asian theater of operations (Kazakhstan, Central Asia, Pakistan, India and Burma).
    1. Berkut24
      Berkut24 20 August 2016 13: 26
      +3
      The "container" is just a system for detecting and scanning the general environment. It is not intended to determine the exact coordinates (for over-the-horizon, if that tells you something) and is not intended to guide air defense missiles, because it has an indirect relationship to it.
      That is, Russian air defense “cannot yet provide guaranteed detection and destruction of stealth aircraft,” he believes.

      And here it’s interesting to me, the author himself sat in front of the screen and twisted the knobs, pushed the selection and capture buttons of the target? Perhaps the F-22 and F-35 themselves cannot be guaranteed to approach the line of launch of anti-radar missiles?
      In Vietnam, the American Congress was confident that their aircraft would drive the enemy into the Stone Age in a month. A year later, they looked sadly at the "incorrect" financial statistics of military operations. Because the S-75, because no shit.
      1. Operator
        Operator 20 August 2016 19: 24
        +2
        The accuracy of determining the coordinates of air targets of the "Container" ZGRLS is about one kilometer. The coordinates are transmitted online to the regional air defense centers (Khmeimim, Baghdad, Tehran, etc.), where they are checked against the data of the "friend or foe" answering machines, and in the absence of a positive response to requests for target coordinates, S-300 air defense missile systems are launched and S-400, the active RGSN of which is independently guided at targets from the 20-40 km line with an accuracy of a meter.

        “There is no reception against scrap” (C)
        1. gjkrjdybr50
          gjkrjdybr50 20 August 2016 20: 04
          0
          Well planted, this is where they work like that? What kind of "friend or foe" answering machines? The air defense missile defense specialists who are now reading the proposed "combat work" algorithm have drunk all the vodka and validol.
  15. ksv36
    ksv36 20 August 2016 13: 01
    +2
    Russian air defense “cannot yet ensure guaranteed detection and destruction of stealth aircraft”,


    Further blah blah these "analysts" and military experts do not go. They would have taken and put their stealth under our S-400. So they would see who is good at what. The water in the mortar is threshed, damn it.
  16. NordUral
    NordUral 20 August 2016 13: 06
    0
    We will definitely solve it. After all, this is a very important task of ensuring our safety in the event of a massive impact of missiles of various types (mainly cruise) and aircraft with the invisibility effect.
  17. Runoway
    Runoway 20 August 2016 13: 06
    +1
    In general, Syria is an excellent testing ground for calibrating both air defense and SU-35 to detect F-22/35! Before this, there was no such opportunity!
  18. Lex.
    Lex. 20 August 2016 13: 14
    +2
    For most military and special auxiliary vehicles created using stealth technologies, there are no independent data on the effective scattering surface (EPR) in various ranges, since expert assessment of this information can increase their vulnerability. Part of the data on the visibility of such machines is based on theoretical estimates, there are also cases of intentional misinformation that overestimate, or, conversely, underestimate the real value of the EPR. Therefore, all estimates of the magnitude of visibility of stealth military vehicles should be treated with a high degree of caution.
    According to the Chief of the Air Defense Forces of the Russian Air Force, Major General V. Gumyonny, currently “invisible planes” created using the Stealth technology are not invisible to domestic air defense systems — such targets are safely taken for escort and timely destroyed [1]. The same situation exists with the “invisible ships” of a possible enemy
  19. gridasov
    gridasov 20 August 2016 13: 15
    0
    ... trying to integrate large data arrays ... This is the whole problem that data arrays cannot be integrated endlessly - they can and should be distributed according to mathematical methods, which are not yet the property of scientists. How many there are now not smart people who will begin to minus or endlessly assert that this is nonsense. But!! All the same, everyone will come to understand the need to revise mathematics, which allows us to work with large amounts of data that are, moreover, in a high dynamic state of their transformations.
    1. Falcon5555
      Falcon5555 20 August 2016 17: 02
      0
      Gridasov, what is the "high dynamic state of one's transformations"?
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 20 August 2016 18: 32
        0
        For example, take an aircraft moving in airspace at a supersonic speed and simply gliding. One can imagine that each point in the space in which the object flies changes its parameters along all coordinate axes, i.e., the rotation of air masses and relative to the fronts of cyclones along the radius and cone relative to both the surface and relative to its rotation axes. Plus, a change in the very structure of the air masses changes in temperature, pressure, water vapor saturation or already concentrated rain drops. Plus, the change in the ratio of various gases in height. And many other physical parameters of transformations of this environment. And now the flight object moves in this variable mass of physically changing structure and properties at a speed called high and ultrahigh. .Те everything changes by orders of magnitude faster in changing physical events and their transformations AND !!!! all this must be subjected to analysis, namely, mathematical analysis, at each altered point of both the aircraft and the flight space of this aircraft. Therefore, the conversation is about the possibility of mathematical analysis of the system, which itself is being transformed in dynamics and, therefore, the properties on and in the outflow surface change, as the contact surface of these transforming systems.
        1. Falcon5555
          Falcon5555 20 August 2016 21: 50
          +1
          So in the term "high dynamic state" the word "high" means what?
          What plane flies high? Therefore, the condition is high?
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 21 August 2016 09: 53
            0
            High - this means a quick change in private decisions. And since all changes occur in the algorithms, the transformation of the algorithms of these processes occurs. That is why the properties of a number in its functions are needed, which differ from those that are used now.
            1. Falcon5555
              Falcon5555 21 August 2016 15: 15
              +2
              Oh well. Rapidly variable - I'm not sure that there is such a word in the literary Russian language, but you can say so. It's kind of a synonym for "rapidly changing". But why is high - is it fast-changing, and not something else? If we are to denote something else with words, then why is it? And what then in your language, for example, "low"? Slowly variable? What are "private solutions"? It seems about diff. equations (which have particular solutions) you did not say anything, but talked about some "your transformations". What education do you have?
  20. ksv36
    ksv36 20 August 2016 13: 17
    +4
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Aircraft glider will be coated
    layers including electronic sensors that will accurately determine
    what waves enemy radars probe the plane. And correspondingly
    the coating will change its properties in order to absorb radiation as much as possible.


    Yes you, my friend a dreamer, however. F-35 has not yet been taught how to fly normally, it will crash programmatically with one layer without sensors, and if it is covered with several more layers with a bunch of sensors, what kind of computer do they need to create and write programs for? And probably from the airfield on the shuttle you have to launch? Their ships collide with submarines, and in the sky stealth with satellites will collide. No, not them. They are good at eating hamburgers and watching movies with popcorn. So let them do it. And war is the destiny of strong spirit and courageous people. War and diapers are incompatible. wink
    1. Pensive
      Pensive 20 August 2016 17: 21
      0
      They have ships with submarines collide


      You are sorry, but for a representative of a country where over 30 major disasters and serious incidents with nuclear submarines have occurred over the past 4 years, recalling other people's clashes is simply indecent.
  21. Fitter65
    Fitter65 20 August 2016 13: 22
    +3
    When the "lame dwarf" flew to Le Bourget for the first time, the French were surprised how easily it was found. In various ranges. After that, in the French press, only the lazy, leitmotif - Invisible Airplane, invisible to American taxpayers, did not sleep over him. the front of the fuselage, or just in the nose, the F-22 has some kind of radar (radar, if you like) covered with a radio-transparent fairing. The question is what kind of reflected surface does it have, and how does this mark look on the air defense radar screens?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 20 August 2016 21: 44
      0
      This is the French. They did not understand that the F-22 was hung with special
      devices that dramatically increase EPF.
      All Intercontinental Raptors fly with them,
      so that their "combat" EPR could not be calculated.
  22. Tusv
    Tusv 20 August 2016 13: 24
    0
    S-300, S-400 and S-500 air defense can detect stealth aircraft like F-22 or F-35

    I remember our Dryers ran out of kerosene, the usual maneuver home. All NATO was fleeing afterburner.
    They thought they would be wet from the ground. I did not see a day of more than one enemy pepelats in Iko.
    And it will light up for our engineers. You hit the Yankees
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. sir_obs
    sir_obs 20 August 2016 15: 24
    +1
    All these analysts are like psychics with TV3, waving their hands, making terrible faces, eyes wide ... At the output, there is a free interpretation of Hollywood films about the irrepressible power of America.
    Serious opponent, no one argues. But all these fortune-telling on coffee grounds is about nothing. The answer is given only by the practice of real combat.
    The real superiority of stealth technology, in a real battle, no one has yet shown.
  25. cryloff.il
    cryloff.il 20 August 2016 15: 41
    0
    "" Sooner or later Moscow will find a solution to the "invisible" problem "And in my opinion, Moscow has long ago solved this problem. In general, there were developments on the S-500 ... in general, they were already when the S-300 existed. But the release of the S-500 then meant only one thing, to spur the arms race.
  26. Mentat
    Mentat 20 August 2016 15: 56
    +3
    Quote: DIVAN SOLDIER
    In short, everyone rushed to defend
    "allies from the usa" is not surprising. I immediately remembered Erdogan, who at first was bad, but eventually became good.

    It is clear that you are trying to form an erroneous opinion. But you, apparently (or the curators of your sofa), forgot Goebbels's words: "The worst enemy of any propaganda is intellectualism." The officers, and the visitors here are mainly active officers and retirees, are people with higher education. To whom you are trying to rub your nonsense in this case is not clear.
  27. Mentat
    Mentat 20 August 2016 16: 31
    0
    Quote: ksv36
    F-35 has not yet been taught how to fly normally, it will crash programmatically with one layer without sensors, and if it is covered with several more layers with a bunch of sensors, what kind of computer do they need to create and write programs for?

    Programs, the upper class is simple, they Indians write cheap
    https://lurkmirror.ml/Индусский_код

    and computers will order, also inexpensively, in China.
    https://topwar.ru/34392-geopoliticheskaya-mozaika-v-vashingtone-vzbuntovali-kon
    gressmeny-a-15-detaley-i-chipov-kotorye-zakupaet-pentagon-okazalis-kitayskimi-p
    oddelkami.html


    Everything will be hurt.
  28. parkello
    parkello 20 August 2016 16: 34
    +1
    the expert probably relies on the testimonies of the Serbian military who said that they couldn’t immediately shoot down the invisible bomber because they could not accurately determine its coordinates. but the Serbs had anti-aircraft weapons to put it mildly not the first freshness. and as a result, they wrapped something up with microwaves, Stealth landed on the stove, bombed, lit up, and then he was escorted and two C-175 rockets were fired into that square, one of which damaged him, incompatible with functionality , the pilot left the car. the Serbian military said that they saw the mark on the radar, the Soviet-made radars P-12 Enisey and P-18 Terek saw them simply if you yourself light up for AWACS for more than 20 s, then the probability that Tomogavk or other weapons will cover you is close to one . The American and British dm radars were not seen by the Stelstas, but Soviet radars saw them. which were even older but had a wavelength of up to 2 m. but again it’s closer to 50 km. It's very close . Of course, the Russian military-industrial complex does not stand still, and it probably already has radars capable of seeing targets more than 50 km, so in the place of the Americans I would not hope for stealth. there, they still cann’t do anything against Greece and Palestine, but with regard to the Russian air defense, layered ... that yes with modern means of detection and new missiles, you’ll excuse me.
  29. russmensch
    russmensch 20 August 2016 16: 39
    +3
    In connection with this article, I recalled an interview on TV with the leading designer of the radar. Unfortunately, I don't remember his last name because of how old it was. The transfer took place even before the Yugoslav events. So there the designer, answering the questions of the presenter, tried to carefully and carefully select the words when talking about our stations. And suddenly, when asked about the prospects of the "invisible" serif, he almost exploded and said that this term did not accept in any way. For our stations today (then) freely discover and conduct such targets. And if three such stations were installed at certain distances, then the accuracy of determination in space would be 100 percent and, if necessary, it would be shot down. And then in Yugoslavia, the shot down Stealth confirmed his words in practice. But so much time has passed ... Americans still rely on the invulnerability of stealth? Do they still believe in backward Russia? Well, the flag is in their hands.
  30. complete zero
    complete zero 20 August 2016 16: 59
    0
    Stealth still "reflects" the issue in the location of the receivers ... so it's still "visible"
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. sgazeev
    sgazeev 20 August 2016 17: 04
    +1
    There's a microwave for that, thanks to the Serbs. bully
  33. Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 20 August 2016 17: 16
    0
    Nifiga myself, fabulously how to change wassat
  34. sgazeev
    sgazeev 20 August 2016 17: 32
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: Lex.
    Our drone got lost for half an hour, we flew ours couldn’t shoot down 2 missiles a patriot all by, even the raised f-16 did not help

    We won’t be like that anymore winked

    drinks
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 20 August 2016 17: 40
    +1
    A straight American journalist knows how accurately Russian systems can ALREADY determine "invisible")
  37. japs
    japs 20 August 2016 19: 15
    +4
    Observer 33,
    Right. From Vietnam draped, heels sparkled!
  38. evgter
    evgter 20 August 2016 20: 22
    +1
    S-400 does not see F-22s that fly in Syria. Never highlighted them.
    In general, the invisibility will destroy any serial Russian aircraft with a range of more than 100 km, this is directly written in the previous article.
    1. TOR2
      TOR2 20 August 2016 21: 00
      +2
      The "stealth" technology is based on the developments of Professor Ufimtsev. Books on this topic in the USSR were in the public domain.
      Even with absolutely absorbing material, when the reflection coefficient = 0, the total dispersion of the field diverging from the plane in all directions is reduced by only half. This is quite enough to detect such aircraft.
      Professor Ufimtsev

      If you are interested in details, you can watch the film "Russian Stealth: In Pursuit of Invisibility"
  39. ML-334
    ML-334 20 August 2016 20: 51
    0
    In my opinion, a simple aerosol, aerosol cloud can negate stealth technology. Components can be different, from markers to glue. Markers can be used for stealth and reconnaissance aircraft, glue for UAVs. In general, anything can be interfered with aerosols if the volume was large and the cloud held onto a specific task. It would be necessary for the component to be eaten up as cadaveric poison into metal. It can be sprayed at a certain level and the theater of operations. It’s up to specialists to consider liquidation as unnecessary.
  40. free
    free 20 August 2016 20: 55
    +1
    nothing about the article
  41. GMT-ZHEL
    GMT-ZHEL 20 August 2016 21: 08
    0
    NI: sooner or later Russia will learn with high accuracy to determine the location of the "invisible aircraft" Strange. But it seemed to me that for a long time we have been able to do this. winked So all these years we have been completely defenseless? bully
  42. Uran
    Uran 20 August 2016 21: 33
    0
    site change. I can’t adapt
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 20 August 2016 23: 16
      0
      If we talk about the F 22, then the plane was created for the USSR with its deeply echeloned defense and the conquest of airspace by the method ("the first one found, the first one shot down.) The plane is not intended for close-range (but it can). In particular, training battles against F 15 and other f- k shot down conditionally 144 and lost only 2. Just in the close. In international exercises, they participated with an increased EPR and with an order not to use long-range combat (as a result, they often lost, because in advance losing situations were tested). Nobody was going to show foreigners long-range combat ( so no one saw the main advantage of F 22 except the Americans)
      About f 22 you can talk for a long time. And although not the most expensive to maintain (the most expensive b 2), the most hyped.
      And for some reason, for some reason, he is considered to be the standard of stealth (f 117 removed), although there is still B2.
      And despite the criticism of the "stealth" (yes, at the moment only one representative of the stealth is lost in the battle), everyone wants to have them.
      I already gave the data on the work on the top - there are very high-class specialists who accompany each aircraft. For the coating is its trump card (plus missiles).
      And the Americans always rely not on breakthroughs in aviation (tea is not Israelis) but on a massive missile strike and only then achieve single goals. So the probability of seeing f 22 in the dump in large groups is reduced to zero. Usually there is nobody and nothing to detect.
      Radars do not stand still - but the Raptor coating has already undergone further modernization (and it is constantly updated)
      In general, armor-shell (radar-stealth) continues.
      The article is intended to convince the public that it is necessary to continue work on improving the "invisible" system because "the radars are catching up"
      And they will improve! There are also breakthroughs in materials science in this direction.
    2. NeRTT
      NeRTT 21 August 2016 02: 07
      0
      Yeah .. a bit unusual !! winked
  43. shadow
    shadow 20 August 2016 23: 23
    0
    Or maybe we already know how, or always knew how. How much has been written about this, how much has been said, but everything is the same susolim.
  44. Mentat
    Mentat 21 August 2016 01: 12
    +3
    Quote: evgter
    S-400 does not see F-22s that fly in Syria. Never highlighted them.
    In general, the invisibility will destroy any serial Russian aircraft with a range of more than 100 km, this is directly written in the previous article.

    Where does this statement come from? Are you serving at the HQ or directly at air defense facilities in Syria? Do not serve, because there * are no people there who would pour such information onto the Internet. Why then shove this scribble on the forum?
    1. evgter
      evgter 22 August 2016 10: 29
      0
      This would be reported by the Americans for sure.
  45. bad
    bad 21 August 2016 05: 48
    +1
    [quote] [/ NI: sooner or later Russia will learn with high accuracy to determine the location of "invisible aircraft"

    Yesterday, 12:07 p.m.] .. they (mattresses) are optimists .. actually now there are no self-propelled airplanes for our air defense .. well let them believe further ..
  46. Zomanus
    Zomanus 21 August 2016 06: 42
    0
    I think that firstly we have stealth detection systems,
    in large quantities. And then, the point of breaking through our defense
    at a time when our vigorous loaves will be on their way to the States.
  47. Leonid Har
    Leonid Har 21 August 2016 07: 11
    +1
    Is it true that the composite case of the F-22 and F-35, with prolonged exposure to rain and moisture, begins to leak and does expensive electronics suffer from this? Therefore, it is recommended to store them strictly in hangars and dry?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 21 August 2016 10: 05
      +1
      At the Reptors, this was at the beginning of operation.
      Composites, carbon - a material unlike aluminum. With them you need
      work differently. And fasteners, and joints, and paint.
      But the F-22 has been exploited for a long time, learned to fix the jambs.
      With the F-35 it’s already easier - we learned from mistakes.
  48. tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa 21 August 2016 11: 07
    0
    DIVAN SOLDIER,
    the only question is how to extrude, suggest options.
  49. clidon
    clidon 21 August 2016 12: 31
    0
    I wonder how many submarines live left. After all, someday they will learn to find their position.
  50. gridasov
    gridasov 21 August 2016 15: 25
    0
    TOR2,
    And what do you think, in space, it can be such that two opposite systems can be located at the same point. Therefore, the definition of antiphase itself is very incorrect.
    1. TOR2
      TOR2 21 August 2016 22: 11
      +1
      Resonant coatings provide partial neutralization of radiation reflected from the surface of the absorber, part of which passed through the thickness of the material. The neutralization effect is significant with an absorber thickness equal to one quarter of the radiation wavelength. In this case, the waves reflected by the surface of the absorber are in antiphase. Resonant materials are applied to the reflective surfaces of the masking object. The coating thickness corresponds to a quarter of the radar emission wavelength. The incident energy of high-frequency radiation is reflected from the external and internal surfaces of the coating with the formation of an interference pattern of neutralization of the original wave. As a result, the incident radiation is suppressed. What is wrong here?
      If on the ground the invisible mono-emitter will really be the "king" in the air, as shown in the mattress films. If "stereo" is already worse for invisibility. If "quadro", then the invisible - the dead.