The black myth of the "savagery" of pre-Christian Russia

289
The black myth of the "savagery" of pre-Christian Russia

Pre-christian story Russia is often shown in dark color, our ancestors in it are “wild” barbarians, living in animal skins by hunting and fishing in primitive forests and swamps. The only bright spots are the Norman-Normans who “brought” the light of the foundations of civilization to Russia (according to the Norman theory) and Princess Olga, who is trying to instill the principles of Christianity into the savages. As a result, for the majority of Russian citizens, the pre-Christian history of Russia is a real terra incognita (“Unknown Land” from Lat.).

In fact, at present, Russia needs something like the German “Ancestral Heritage” (Anenerbe). And do not get up in a position and say the type of fie “abomination”, fascism. The gloomy Teutonic genius introduced many new products into the global circulation. It is clear that mysticism, occultism, racism and Nazism have nothing to do in such an institution, but it is necessary to carry out a huge work in the field of archeology, history, the origins of Russia.

Tribes or state

When people talk about the Old Russian state (“protogosudarstvo”), you can often hear about the tribes - glade, Sloven, Drevlyane, Krivichi, Radimichi and many others. When the word "tribe" arises the image of some North American Iroquois or Papuans, but in no way developed community.

Although in reality, any Slavic-Russian "tribe" was a union or super union of tribes that controlled a huge space (equal or significantly more than European kingdoms). The union had a developed system of governance: an elected prince, governors, military squads, a council of nobles, boyars, a popular assembly — a veche. The union of the tribes was primarily a political, territorial, and not a generic phenomenon. Each “reign” or “land” had not only its “reign”, but also the “laws of its fathers,” that is, the legislative system.

In Western Europe, titles were taken very seriously. So in the message of the Bertinsky annals about the embassy of the “people of Ros” to the emperor of the Franks, Louis the Pious (in 839), the lord of the Russians is called “the king”. After more than a hundred years, Princess Olga (the Christian name Elena) was called “Queen Elena” (“Chronicle of the Follower of Reginon”). Eastern sources call the rulers of the Rus "kings" and "kagans" (imperial title). The Russian land is called the state, so Arab Ibn Haukal says: "Ar-Rus, just like al-Khazar and al-Serir, is the name of a state, not people and not a city."

And the fact that in the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) did not recognize the dignity of "kings", calling it "archons" (elders), speaks only of the policy of "Tsargrad". The Romans considered themselves to be the heirs of the Roman Empire, all the surrounding peoples were “barbarians” for them. In Constantinople, they did not recognize the royal title for the Bulgarian tsar (although the Bulgarians threatened the capital of the empire several times), the emir of Egypt, the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation.

For contemporaries from the West, or the East, Russia was a mighty state, no worse than the kingdoms of Europe or the mighty and rich Khazar Kaganate.

Gardarika (Gardariki)

The ancient Scandinavians called the Old Russian state - "Gardarika", i.e. "state of cities". It is not surprising that this term is translated as “fence, fence, fortification”, or “yard, enclosed space”. At that time, the main value of the city is the fortification, the fortress.

For example, the largest city in the Mediterranean - Constantinople, was called by the Scandinavians Miklgard (Miklagarđr). And according to the German chronicler Tithmar of Merseburg, Kiev was a rival to the capital of Byzantium - Constantinople. They noted a large number of cities of Russia and Eastern sources, Arab ibn Ruste wrote that the Ruses have “many cities”.

It is clear that the people of the East, familiar with Baghdad and Cairo, the Scandinavians who saw the cities of England, France, Spain and Italy, unanimously assert that the Rus of the pre-Christian era had cities. Moreover, in such quantity that it was surprising to experienced travelers.

Such a source as the “Bavarian Geographer” is a list of peoples and unions of tribes, mainly of Slavic origin, who inhabited areas in the 9th century east of the Frankish state, reports dozens and hundreds of cities (!) Of East Slavic principalities. So the bougains had 231 hail (city), streets -418, etc.

And since there were cities, it means there were also craft “ends” (quarters). Russia was famous for its masters. Russian weapon already then it was a very salable commodity, Russian swords, according to contemporaries, were not inferior to the Frankish or Arabic blades. Ibn Ruste mentions the wonderful chain mail of the Slavs, and in the French poem "Renault de Montaban" refers to the "magnificent chain mail from Russia", which was acquired by the main character.

Russian faith

Many consider our ancestors to be dense pagans, although if we try to understand the faith of our ancestors, it becomes clear that it was a sunny, bright belief, filled with universal harmony, goodness and justice. The concepts of our ancestors, which we absorb from childhood through fairy tales, the ancient Russian epics, still do not allow us to completely degrade, to become "two-legged vegetables."

It is foolish to think that the paganism of the Rus is a wild, backward belief. Modern Japan, India, and in many ways China, retain their ancient beliefs and do not suffer from this. They make the life of their peoples more meaningful, they allow to restrain the onslaught of "universal" (Western) values.

It is interesting that in many ways the faith of the Rus is still alive today; it has been preserved not only in fairy tales and epics, but also has been absorbed into Christianity. By making it orthodoxy ("glory rule"). The main myth images are preserved: the Christian Trinity, the image of the Virgin, George the victorious serpent - the Slavic Triglavs, the Mother Lada - Rozhanitsa, Perun the victorious serpent (Veles-Volos), etc.

Russians need to know their roots, the faith of their ancestors, who believed in the One God the Father, the Parent of all things (the Genus), Mother Earth, God the Son (the Sun).

Russian writing. Population literacy

For centuries, Russians were inspired by the “good Greeks” written by “wild pagans” - the monks Cyril (Constantine) and Methodius. But now we have a lot of data that the Slavic Rus had their writing long before baptism. A written language is the hallmark of a developed civilization.

For example, two ancient Russian swords (of the pre-Christian era) were found, with Slavic inscriptions on them - apparently, the names of blacksmiths, “Lyudota Koval” and “Slavimir”. This also shows that literacy was quite widespread in Russia - it was owned by artisans (in Western Europe, the clergy were mostly literate, and even the highest nobility was illiterate). They report on the literacy of the Rus and Eastern sources.

Another tangible evidence of the existence of Slavic writing is the inscription on the famous “Nest of Korchag” of the middle of the 10 century (it was found in one of the Gnezdovo barrows in 1949 by D.A. Avdusin). The inscription consists of a single word "peanut" (apparently mustard), scratched on the surface of an already burnt-on crabs. There are other material evidence, as in Novgorod a wooden tag with an inscription was found, in layers of the 10th century.

In the life of Cyril (the "founder" of Russian writing) it is reported that while passing through Korsun-Khersones (an ancient city near modern Sevastopol), he saw the Gospel and the Shepherd written in Russian letters.

It should be noted that many Russ were literate before baptism and after the baptism of Russia. Archaeological finds say that not only princes and priests were literate, but also simple people - artisans, merchants, people who served.

Thus, our ancestors were very developed people, had their own power, civilization, long before baptism. The “black” myth of the savagery of the “ancient Slavs” is a tool of the information war, created to destroy the memory of a unique ancient Russian civilization, creating an inferiority complex in our country. We must do a great job of restoring the image of our ancestors, their history, faith, their spiritual and material culture. Currently, a number of researchers are making significant efforts to destroy the "white spots" in the history of Russia. We can recommend the remarkable encyclopedia of M. Semenova “We are Slavs” (author of the famous novel “Wolfhound”), research by Lev Prozorov (“The Times of Russian Bogatyrs”, “Varyazhskaya Rus”, etc.) and other authors.
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  1. ZEBRASH
    +53
    7 January 2012 09: 40
    Very useful article! About Russian writing before Cyril and Methodius, I even made a report to the school scientific and practical conference: these two simply redid the Old Slavic alphabet, simplified it, and now, please - Cyrillic am And there were 147 letters in the Worldwide Letter (the Old Slavonic alphabet), and the language was more complicated. Zadornov talked a lot about it.
    1. +5
      7 January 2012 16: 15
      The article is excellent. But here I have such a question, are there Old Believers-Inglings? Just interesting and nothing more))
      1. kazak1983
        +6
        17 January 2012 21: 47
        yes there is .. who honor their ANCESTORS, HOMELAND and OUR LIGHT GODS !!!
        1. 0
          24 February 2012 19: 22
          What are these "bright" gods? What do you know about them? Do you believe in them? I would like to hear the symbol of your faith.
          1. +17
            28 November 2020 01: 58
            I know
            I know the kind of One,
            What created the Universe.
            Irius of heaven and our earthly home,
            Knowledge also gave us will.
            In the faces of the All-God incarnate himself,
            In Svarga, the saint is,
            Putting human souls into bodies,
            Closing in the earthly circle,
            The will of the Gods, creating rebirth,
            Reigns invisibly everywhere.
            I know endless life.
            I was, and I am, and I will be.
            Source: https://www.rodnovery.ru/
          2. +19
            28 November 2020 02: 00
            Quote: Midshipman
            I would like to hear the symbol of your faith.

            This is not a symbol of faith, but you can understand what's what:

            In the face of the All-God glorified,
            Like our ancestor with molych,
            Let us sing great glory,
            A Slovenesque family, father and grandfather,
            Kie ve Svarze bo sute.
            Glory Dazhba will be sung,
            Vnutsi Dazhbova, dear beloved,
            Bozisco screamed howl
            Like holding the right hand to Suna,
            Trizh will sing glory to Svarozhich,
            Bozi is glorious, suryi is drunk,
            Yako ve Swarze bozi bo sute,
            They drink to the happiness of the divine grandchildren.
            Glory!
            Source: https://www.rodnovery.ru/stati/171-urochnye-molitvy-i-slavleniya
      2. Che
        Che
        +4
        31 January 2012 09: 00
        In the Middle Ages, as a result of the Crusades of the Saxons and the political separation of the Slavs, Slavism was destroyed in Western Europe.
        1. +15
          28 November 2020 00: 25
          Quote: Che
          the Slavs were destroyed on the territory of western Europe.

          fool
          Although maybe you mean on the territory of central Europe?
      3. +1
        9 May 2016 20: 47
        There is, at least I classify myself as such
      4. +17
        28 November 2020 00: 22
        Why do you need Yngling Old Believers? If you want to understand the essence of the ancient Slavic religion (paganism), pay attention to the Rodnovers from the Sosa of the Slavic Communities of the Slavic Native Faith. They have done a lot to revive the ancient religion of their ancestors. They have a very extensive knowledge gained in the course of historical and archaeological research. By the way, they reject Fomenko, Chudinov, Asov and other alternatives.
    2. marauder
      -31
      7 January 2012 20: 03
      Quote: ZEBRASH
      Cyril and Methodius


      Cyril and Methodius, St. Cyril (827–869) and Methodius (815–885), Greek missionaries, creators of Slavic writing. The brothers Konstantin (who took the name Cyril in the schema) and Methodius were born in Soluni (now Thessaloniki, Greece) in the family of a Byzantine military leader.

      In 863, the Moravian prince Rostislav turned to the Byzantine emperor Michael III with a request to send a bishop and teacher to preach among the Slavs living in Pannonia and Moravia. These Slavic lands were in the church administration of Rome, and Constantinople did not have the right to put a bishop there, so the patriarch sent Constantine and his brother Methodius, who had no official authority,. In that era, the Slavs did not yet have their own written language; Konstantin created an alphabet for them (apparently, it was a Glagolitic alphabet) and translated some texts from Greek

      more detailed http://www.krugosvet.ru/node/35197

      you need to study history. But do not invent how it was done in Anenerb.
      1. ZEBRASH
        +22
        7 January 2012 21: 16
        This is a castrated story that Zadornov talks about in the link I gave. You can believe the official sources, I will believe in what I myself consider more likely. I have my own brains and my own opinions, and not imposed by official history, which can be easily rewritten am
        1. Volkhov
          +10
          7 January 2012 23: 07
          You are absolutely right, the story is distorted. Try to work out physics and look at old ornaments (embroidered according to canons) - a clean picture of field interactions. Matryoshka is an ideal form of warhead for fighting comets (Serpents of the mountains) - it is itself attracted to the target.
          1. +10
            28 November 2020 00: 29
            Are you seriously talking about Matryoshka? wassat
        2. +19
          28 November 2020 00: 28
          Quote: ZEBRASH
          This is the castrated story that Zadornov talks about in the link I gave

          Are you aware that Zadornov gave up his ideas not long before his death?
          Quote: ZEBRASH
          I have my own brains and opinions, not imposed by the official history

          As a result, different Fomenko and Chudinovs imposed their story on you.
      2. Rexei
        +12
        8 January 2012 00: 44
        Well done, now think about this question: how can you create an alphabet, even converted from Greek, out of nothing? Bind sounds to letters, and even teach this to a whole people ... It was easier to teach a purely Greek alphabet, but for some reason they They did not. Question: Why? Answer: Byzantium wanted to have more influence on the Slavs. (Wouldn't "who invented and gave" people write writing be revered by them almost like a god?)
        At some times, the planet was rectangular, and those who did not believe in it and spoke about it openly were burned at the stake like heretics. Where is it true?
        PS Just a personal opinion.
        1. ab
          ab
          -3
          21 January 2012 14: 45
          Absolutely untrue. All alphabets were created on some basis with a touch of local pronunciation. Therefore, almost all alphabets begin with ABV, abc and derivatives. The first alphabet is the so-called Semitic alphabet from which all modern Western (including Cyrillic) alphabets evolved.
          Quote: Rexei
          Well done, now think about this question: how can I create an alphabet, even if converted from Greek, out of nothing? Bind sounds to letters, and even teach this to a whole nation ...

          Of course, and even in our short century, there are a lot of such examples. Bessarabia, rejected from Romania (1939), was forcibly translated into the Cyrillic alphabet. In Romania - Latin. Karelian no longer remember the USSR or the autonomous region cut off from Finland was transferred to the Cyrillic alphabet, etc. Yes, that there whole states adopted foreign languages ​​and declared them official. (Liberia, Niger, etc.)
          1. +18
            28 November 2020 00: 34
            In the beginning, the Mesopotamian cuneiform and Egyptian hieroglyphs appeared, and only then the Semitic alphabet.
      3. marauder
        -32
        8 January 2012 03: 17
        Wow, some didn’t like it. What? blue blood white bone.
        There were "true Aryans" here in history. Let's exalt ourselves, clowns.
        Rewrite history specifically for yourself. Cool Yop

        It didn’t come to your head that the strength of Russians is not of ancient roots.
        but the fact that a bunch of nationalities mixed up. History is also needed.
        but do not invent it.

        recently watched as the Kyrgyz proved that Adam and Eve were Kyrgyz
        and what are you better than these Kirghiz?

        but about Cyril and Methodius (what is higher) these are just not my words. Russian historians wrote this.
        I just copied.
        it’s you who put them minuses.
        1. wk
          -6
          9 January 2012 04: 18
          Quote: Maroder
          I recently watched how the Kirghiz proved that Adam and Eve were Kirghiz, and how are you better than these Kirghiz?

          and in Ukraine there are allegations that Ukrainians were the first to invent the WHEEL, opened arable land .... I think that not all the joyful commentators of this article could learn the roots alone — these are historians, so I support you and prepare for the minuses.
          1. +2
            15 January 2012 11: 30
            Quote: wk
            and in Ukraine there are allegations that Ukrainians were the first to invent the WHEEL, opened arable land .... I think that not all the joyful commentators of this article could learn the roots alone — these are historians, so I support you and prepare for the minuses.

            Well, I don’t know about the wheel, but fat is definitely a hohloproduct! Thanks for it !!!
            1. wk
              +4
              16 January 2012 11: 09
              Pigs were bred in ancient Rome and in ancient Egypt, and FAT was even when Neanderthals lived on the Dnieper .... Ukrainian cuisine exists, but lard is INTERNATIONAL!
            2. -2
              3 February 2012 16: 56
              And I am with both hands for putting a monument to the pig with the inscription: "Savior of the Slavic family." During the Tatar-Mongol yoke, only she helped out. Well, the steppe inhabitants did not eat pork! :)
              1. +19
                28 November 2020 00: 38
                You're right. It may sound strange, but thanks to the pig, people then survived. The pig grows quickly, eats everything, is unpretentious to living conditions, does not require special care, and yes, the steppe inhabitants did not eat pork.
          2. -5
            15 January 2012 12: 09
            Quote: wk
            WHEEL, open arable land .... 147 characters think

            and what not thousand 5 characters?
            the Chinese would surpass
            1. 0
              9 May 2016 22: 10
              Quote: Denis


              You would, dear, first of all take an interest in the subject, and then you would curse ...
          3. +15
            28 November 2020 00: 35
            Quote: wk
            and in Ukraine there are allegations that the Ukrainians were the first to invent the WHEEL, plowed up arable land

            And they dug the Black Sea wassat
        2. zardoz
          +4
          10 January 2012 03: 01
          More polite, huh? And then your characteristic of opponents concerns you more.
        3. kazak1983
          +6
          17 January 2012 22: 08
          marauder historians will write to you that you are the devil with horns and you will believe in it ... probably already small children know that history is written not by the people, but by the rulers of pid ... for themselves, for their own benefit, and the Germans wrote your story for you so believe further on to historians who write that before the adoption of Christianity we were animals, barbarians, and since we could not talk and write, we mumbled and communicated with gestures, and especially believe that you are a SLAVE of God and will become a slave! And OUR GOD DOES NOT CALL US SLAVES US !!!!! WE ARE GOD'S CHILDREN !!!
          1. ab
            ab
            -5
            21 January 2012 14: 54
            Quote: kazak1983
            And OUR GOD DOES NOT CALL US SLAVES US !!!!! WE ARE GOD'S CHILDREN !!!

            Did he tell you that? And in what language? Understand if you are Aramaic or Hebrew to understand ?? What obscurantism can lead to. GOD IS ONE. For all 3 leading religions (monotheistic) God is one. Muhammad is his prophet, Jesus is the son of God, well, Jews pray directly, without intermediaries, but God remains one and one. Sorry that not all the capital bulls, I'm actually an atheist.
          2. -1
            3 February 2012 16: 59
            The winners write the story. This is not, this Owen said. And hell, a hundred times right! Only in the last hundred years, as soon as her unfortunate woman was not cut ...
          3. ab
            ab
            0
            3 February 2012 17: 03
            Quote: kazak1983
            And OUR GOD DOES NOT CALL US SLAVES US !!!!! WE ARE GOD'S CHILDREN !!!

            Did he tell you that?
            1. +11
              28 November 2020 00: 40
              This is what our ancestors said. So it is written in the annals.
          4. +1
            9 May 2016 22: 13
            kazak1983 +++++ we are children of god
        4. Dimedroll
          +6
          26 January 2012 20: 33
          but about Cyril and Methodius (what is higher) these are just not my words. Russian historians wrote this.
          I just copied.
          it’s you who put them minuses.

          1) Kohl Peter or Johann Peter (Kohl Johann Peter), 1725.
          2) Miller or Muller Fedor Ivanovich or Gerard Friedrich (Mu »ller Gerard Friedrich), 1725.
          3) Bayer Gottlieb or Theophil Siegfried (Bayer Gottlieb or Theophil Siegfried), 1725.
          4) Fischer Johann Eberhard (Fischer Johann Eberhard), 1732.
          5) Cramer Adolf Bernhard, 1732.
          6) Lotter Johann Georg (Lotter Johann Georg), 1733.
          7) Leroy Louis or Pierre-Louis (Le Roy Pierre-Louis), 1735.
          Merling Georg (Moerling or Mo »rling Georg), 1736.
          9) Brem or Brahme Johann Friedrich (Brehm or Brehme Johann Friedrich), 1737.
          10) Taubert Ivan Ivanovich or Johann Caspar (Taubert Johann Caspar), 1738.
          11) Crusius Christian Gottfried, 1740.
          12) Modera Karl Friedrich (Moderach Karl Friedrich), 1749.
          13) Schlozer August Ludwig (Schlo »zer Auguste Ludwig), 1762.
          14) Stritter or Stritter Ivan Mikhailovich or Johann Gotthilf (Stritter Johann Gotthilf), 1779.
          15) Hackmann Johann Friedrich (Hackmann Johann Friedrich), 1782.
          16) Busse Fomich or Johann Heinrich (Busse Johann Heinrich), 1795.
          17) Vauvilliers Jean-Francois (Vauvilliers Jean-Francois), 1798.
          18) Klaprot Heinrich Julius or Julius (Klaproth Heinrich Julius), 1804.
          19) Herman Karl Fedorovich or Karl Gotlob Melchior or Karl Theodore (Hermann Karl Gottlob Melchior or Karl Theodore), 1805.
          20) Circle Philip Ivanovich or Johann Philipp (Krug Johann Philipp), 1805.
          21) Lerberg August or Aaron Christian (Lehrberg August Christian), 1807.
          22) Köhler Egor Egorovich or Heinrich Karl Ernst (Ko »ler Heinrich Karl Ernst), 1817.
          23) Fren Christian Danilovich or Christian Martin (Fra »hn Christian Martin), 1817.
          24) Grefe Fyodor Bogdanovich or Christian Friedrich (Gra »fe Christian Friedrich), 1820.
          25) Schmidt Jacob Ivanovich or Isaac Jacob (Schmidt Isaac Jacob), 1829.
          26) Schengen Andrei Mikhailovich or Johann Andreas (Sjo »rgen Johann Andreas), 1829.
          27) Charmoy Franz Frantsevich or Francois-Bernard (Charmoy Francois-Bernard), 1832.
          28) Fleischer Heinrich Lebrecht, 1835.
          29) Lenz Robert Christianovich (Lenz Robert Christian), 1835.
          30) Brosset Mari Ivanovich or Marie-Felicite (Brosset Marie-Felicite '), 1836.
          31) Dorn Boris Andreevich or Johann Albrecht Bernhard (Dorn Johann Albrecht Bernhard), 1839.

          Where are the Russian historians, deby * l?
          1. 0
            28 January 2012 17: 43
            You are so smart and well-mannered. Just remember that those who are objectionable are called those who themselves do not shine with their minds.
      4. Vas_OK
        +15
        8 January 2012 15: 03
        The stated statement is not a fact, the Greeks (Byzantines) adopted the letter from their eastern neighbors. At the same time, long before the "enlightenment" of Mepodius, the Greeks in trade communicated in writing between merchants, including the merchants of "Rus," (Russia - the name in Greek) ...
        Additionally, during archaeological excavations in the same Nazi Germany, runic letters were found, the analysis of which showed that they correspond to the rules of the semantics of Slavic dialects, i.e. transmit Slavic phonetics, namely: include the features of the language, which is now called Russian ...
        1. +5
          8 January 2012 15: 20
          "namely: include features of the language that is now ..."
          To do this, you don’t even need to go far, dig, everything is simpler - but to see the structure of the Latin language.
      5. puzirilo
        +10
        8 January 2012 21: 16
        This story was written by German academicians Miller, etc. who even did not speak Russian. And they wrote it for a specific ruler (sovereign). Lomonosov wrote another story at that time, but for some reason he immediately died abruptly, his records were never found (they disappeared). So you don't need to read and believe this about the savages of the Slavs. History - From-Tora_Ya. Watch the films "Games of the Gods" by Sergei Strizhak and everything will be clear.
        1. +16
          28 November 2020 00: 44
          Quote: puzirilo
          Lomonosov wrote another story at that time

          Have you read Lomonosov? Or so, just read a lot of different alternatives?
      6. DrekerexeN
        +3
        16 January 2012 18: 02
        Quote: Maroder
        request to send a bishop and teacher to preach among the Slavs living in Pannonia and Moravia. These Slavic lands were in the church administration of Rome,

        TWO! Region, this is not all of Russia ...

        Pannonia and Moravia - this is now eastern Europe ... But it was very relative to Russia, because was far away.
      7. +2
        21 January 2012 14: 10
        You see, the version given here was created in the 19th century. Then, around the 30s and 50s, a harmonious system of Russian history was developed, from which, nevertheless, very many facts were thrown out and even destroyed not only the works of many previous historians (like Lyzlov), but also destroyed historical documents. Therefore, our knowledge of history is extremely incomplete and arbitrary.
        The Glagolitic alphabet was used as a church alphabet mainly in the southern and southwestern Slavic Orthodox regions along with the everyday, secular alphabet.
        And I wouldn’t really trust Zadornov so much, he has a lot of ambiguities and doubtful statements ... if not to say that there are obvious errors.
    3. Cheshire
      +1
      3 January 2015 18: 56
      I also read many articles, different specialists in linguistics and history, everyone says the same thing: these two fools -> Cyril and Methodius, remade the Slavic alphabet, and even reduced the number of letters.
      1. +10
        28 November 2020 00: 46
        If only the surname of one specialist was given in linguistics or whose stories you read ...
  2. Sokol peruna
    +29
    7 January 2012 09: 48
    According to the Slavic-Aryan Vedas of our civilization at least 40 thousand years, four alphabets are known, and the Slavic-Aryan calendar (Carols gift) is the most accurate of all known
    1. 0
      7 January 2012 21: 17
      are there any chronicles from the early years? where does this figure come from? Identity 40000 years ago was the same? or "our civilization" means human in general
      1. ballian
        -16
        7 January 2012 21: 25
        Kirghiz, what silly questions seriously - of course from nowhere - this is an attack of poetic.retism.
        1. Lech e-mine
          +5
          8 January 2012 13: 46
          [hide] [/ hide]

          ballian - you have a stupid answer.
      2. Sokol peruna
        +11
        8 January 2012 11: 58
        Take any Christian chronicle and you will see that in them the chronology is conducted from the creation of the world. Now 7520 summer from the creation of the world.
        7520 Summer from Creation in the Star Temple (5 508 to r.h.)
        13020 Summer from the Great Frost (Great Cooling) (11 008 to r.kh.)
        40016 Summer from the 3 Arrival of Whiteman Perun (38 004 BC)
        44556 Summer from the Creation of the Great Kolo Rasseniya (42 544 to r.kh.)
        106790 Summer from the Founding of Asgard of Iria (from 9 Taylet) (104 778 to r.h.)
        111818 Summer from the Great Migration from Daariya (109 806 to r.h.)
        143002 Summer from the Three Moon Period (140 990 to r.h.)
        153378 Summer from Assa Dei (151 336 to r.h.)
        165042 Summer from Tara Time (163 030 to r.h.)
        185778 Summer from Tula Time (183 766 to r.h.)
        211698 Summer from the Time of Swag (209 686 to r.h.)
        273906 Summer from Time h'Arra (271 894 to r.kh)
        460530 Summer from Time to Gifts (458 518 to r.h.)
        604386 Summer from the Time of Three Suns (the beginning of the Da'ari chronology) (602 374 BC)
        957520 Summer from Time from the time of the appearance of the Gods (955 508 to r.h.)
        1,5bn Summer from the arrival on Midgard of the first whitemars of the Great Race of the Heavenly
        All this is described in the Slavic-Aryan Vedas and Veles book.
        1. 0
          8 January 2012 15: 59
          Sokol Peruna, where does this table come from? Can I have a thread link?
          1. Sokol peruna
            +3
            16 January 2012 08: 14
            sergeant

            Link about kalegndar
            http://energodar.net/vedy/kalendar.html

            If you are interested in ancient history, I advise you to watch the films of A. Sklyarov. Download here

            http://lah.ru/master.htm
        2. -9
          8 January 2012 23: 16
          …………………………………… ..________
          ………………………………, .- '"………………." ~.,
          ……………………… .., .- “…………………………… ..” -.,
          ……………………., / ……………………………………… .. ":,
          …………………,? .......................................................
          ………………. / ………………………………………………… ..,}
          …………… ../ ………………………………………………,: `^` ..}
          …………… / ……………………………………………,: "……… /
          ………… ..?… ..__ ………………………………… ..: `……… ../
          ………… ./__. (… .. "~ -, _ …………………………,:` ………. /
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          ………. {.._ $; _ …… "=, _ ……." -, _ ……., .- ~ -,} ,. ~ "; /….}
          ……… .. ((… .. * ~ _ ……. "= -._ ……"; ,,. / `… ./“ ………… ../
          … ,,, ___. \ `~, ……" ~., ……………… ..`… ..} ………… ../
          ………… (… .` = - ,, …… .` …………………… (……; _ ,, - "
          …………. \ `~. * -, ………………………………. |,. /… .. \, __
          ,, _ ……….}.> -._ \ …………………………… .. | ………… ..` = ~ -,
          … ..` = ~ -, _ \ _ …… `\, …………………………… \
          ……………… .` = ~ - ,,. \, …………………………. \
          ………………………… ..`: ,, ……………………… `\ ………… ..__
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          1,5 billion. years ago??!! And how do people believe this ???? !!!
          1. +2
            15 January 2012 11: 33
            Quote: Klibanophoros
            1,5 billion. years ago??!! And how do people believe this ???? !!!





            people don’t believe ..... people are sure!
            1. -1
              21 January 2012 00: 49
              Previously, people read Jules Verne and dreamed of traveling to the moon and other worlds ... Now, having read fantasy literature, the masses of people rushed through the minds of millennia ... Damn Tolkien with his elves, mayors, and valars ...
              So what's next? What will all these "Aryan Vedas" give you in life? The knowledge that elves descended to bacteria? 1,5 billion years ago?

              And this is only the beginning of a new era of obscurantism ... here are its flowers:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r1mHgS4UhIE

              In short, mankind was not able to escape into space on this civilizational turn, - there came a round of regression, it’s like staying in school for the second year, only the lessons will be bloody for everyone, regardless of whether you have learned the material or not.
              It is a pity that priests, wise men, politicians and Shylock won ... sad
          2. Sokol peruna
            +11
            16 January 2012 08: 36
            And how do people believe that the history of Russia is only 1000 years old? How is it believed that the Great Pyramids were built 4000 years ago by the Pharaohs of the 4th dynasty, when their total weight is about 20 million tons and the technologies with which they were built are not available to us now? Why are the Chinese, Jews, Indians and other ancient peoples trying to further deepen their civilization in the centuries, and our official scientists do not even consider the heritage that we inherited from our ancestors? There is a saying "If you want to destroy the greatness of a people, destroy its History."
            1. 0
              21 January 2012 14: 22
              Yes, more than 1000, of course - this is after all, since the beginning of the Christianization of Russia. But it’s also not necessary to ascribe for many millennia ... at least, without clear evidence.
              1. +12
                28 November 2020 01: 10
                Quote: Uhalus
                Yes, more than 1000, of course - this is a record since the beginning of the Christianization of Rus

                No, not from the beginning of the baptism of Rus, but from the unification of two Slavic states into one. Is it really that hard to understand?
            2. +17
              28 November 2020 01: 09
              Quote: Sokol Peruna
              And how do people believe that the history of Russia is only 1000 years old?

              How funny you are. Russia was formed by the unification of Novgorod and Kiev. It was a little over 1000 years ago. The Slavs are only 1500 years old. Everything else is complete, sorry, nonsense.
        3. -1
          21 January 2012 14: 17
          I don’t understand ... One and a half billion? Well, except that one can say civilization of organically complex molecules ... winked
          The rest of the calendars, of course, were used, but their origin is unknown and it is better not to fantasize on this topic, otherwise you will be mistaken.
          1. Sokol peruna
            +2
            22 January 2012 10: 40
            There really is little evidence. But they are. One of the evidence is a stove found by Professor Chuvyrov in Bashkiria.
            http://slavs.org.ua/karta-sozdatelya.
            1. +20
              28 November 2020 01: 24
              Quote: Sokol Peruna
              One of the proofs is a slab found by Professor Chuvyrov in Bashkiria

              I already got this fake ...
              With regard to this slab, a very impressive commission was created to study the artifact. List of who were on the commission (from those found out):
              1. Anatoly Karpov - chairman of the commission, was the world chess champion
              2. Victor Sadovnichy - Rector of Moscow State University, mathematician
              3. Anatoly Derevyanko - member of the Presidium of the Siberian Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Russian archaeologist, full member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Doctor of Historical Sciences
              4. Vitaly Sevastyanov - cosmonaut, graduated from the Moscow Aviation Institute
              5. Vladimir Aksyonov - cosmonaut, mechanical engineering college, mechanical engineer
              6. Arkady Popov - Doctor of Psychology, professor, member of the IAFM commission for the study of "Ural icon art", full member of the Academy of Cosmonautics. K. E. Tsiolkovsky,
              7. Vladimir Karandashov - member of the commission, full member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, specialist in unknown civilizations, doctor of medical sciences, professor

              And not a single geologist! Geologists had to establish the age of this plate, but they were not invited.
              1. +2
                19 December 2020 14: 16
                Do you think that the commission for the study of the slab found by Professor Chuvyrov in Bashkiria included incompetent people? The entire commission consisted of academicians and doctors of sciences.
        4. +12
          28 November 2020 01: 06
          Quote: Sokol Peruna
          Veles book

          This is already a proven falsification.
    2. Evgeny B.
      +7
      7 January 2012 21: 30
      You are already late uv. Sokol Peruna. Before your civilization, there was a long time ago the Civilization of the Great Ukro-Aryans. And this great civilization possessed all the Knowledge and the whole World owes it! But the World forgot it, especially the Moscow tsars of the rotting and spreading of the Great Ukro-Arians, and after them Muscovites with their Stalin ...
      However, the ancestors of all nations, carriers of all knowledge, etc. etc., have in their arsenal irrefutable evidence of the truth of all that is said here - this is the Great Ancient symbol of the greatness of their civilization - the Globe of Ukraine !!!!
      So you are too small in front of Them.
      1. Indigo
        +17
        7 January 2012 22: 12
        Yes, you forgot to note that the pyramids around the world are also ukrov-aryans work ...
      2. -1
        21 January 2012 14: 21
        :))))))))))))))))))))))))
      3. 0
        11 November 2014 10: 00
        As you were right ... what is happening today, great UKRs ..... some kind of kapets
    3. -14
      7 January 2012 22: 07
      40000 years ago, say? Neanderthal Dolbloslavie .... it is .... Dolbloslavie .... am
    4. +1
      21 January 2012 14: 14
      "Carols gift" - there is a consonance ... And what about the Greek-Latin - "kalenda", "kalendarum"? By the way, the calendar in Staroslavl was called "Dnevnik".
    5. +18
      28 November 2020 00: 47
      Quote: Sokol Peruna
      According to the Slavic-Aryan Vedas

      There are no Slavic-Aryan Vedas. There are chronicles. The oldest of which date back only 9-10 centuries.
  3. Lech e-mine
    +39
    7 January 2012 09: 52
    The VATICAN at one time made a lot of efforts to deprive us of its HISTORY and NATIONAL CONSCIOUSNESS. Recent attempts to rewrite the history of World War II as well as the demands of all repentance only confirm the idea that the WEST will try to inspire us with our alleged (supposedly) inferiority by any means.
    1. rate 60
      +2
      8 January 2012 00: 54
      The Russian political elite, led by Putin and his Jewish puppeteers, is even more trying to inspire Russian inferiority even in comparison with the Caucasians and the peoples of Central Asia.
      1. +4
        14 January 2012 12: 58
        What the hell?!! Where did he inspire anyone ??? Probably when the army began to supply new equipment and give the military apartments. Here you are "flawed Russians". I do not like Putin, your business, why put everything in one heap?
    2. Rexei
      +16
      8 January 2012 01: 08
      This is being done now ... Just look even at a few words from the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_period_of_World_War_II
      Quote: WikiArticle
      Result Decisive Allied victory
      -translation "Decisive Victory ALLIES"
      In our language, "Victory of the Soviet Union" is clearly and clearly written.
      That is, according to the eng-version, it turns out that in the "Eastern Front" (WWII) on our Americans, the British ran to the earth (well, to the heap there) and helped us. Question:Was it like that ???
    3. 0
      13 January 2012 21: 48
      As for the history of World War II, the pendosy believe that they won, and it was they who liberated the whole world. This fact adds 2% bitterness to me when I look at modern "chicks", "fights", etc. Here you can see the victory of pendosny / london
    4. +9
      28 November 2020 01: 28
      Quote: Leha e-mine
      VATICAN At one time made a lot of efforts to deprive us of his HISTORY and NATIONAL CONSCIOUSNESS

      How, when? What has the Vatican to do with it?
  4. Alexey Prikazchikov
    +12
    7 January 2012 09: 54
    Thanks for the article.
    1. +21
      7 January 2012 12: 37
      The correct article, although Samsonov sometimes puts it, but here he is completely right. We must be proud of our history, and not rely on the estimates of its rootless USA, the eternal envious Anglo-Saxons, Franks, etc., who before the arrival of the Romans had no idea about social culture and the culture of life in general. These are truly barbarians.
      1. +5
        7 January 2012 12: 51
        I want to add: let the Varangians not stutter about their cultural role in Russian history - Rurik was invited by the wise Slavs as a crisis manager and only because this was the only right decision in the period of civil strife. And they continued to live according to their own laws, and Rurik did not hesitate to engage in reforming activities, he was simply a nominal, firm hand, which is in Russian traditions.
        1. ballian
          -33
          7 January 2012 14: 16
          The Russian state was created by the Vikings - the Swedes - almost the entire Russian elite of the 9 - the middle of the 10 century, in famous chronicles and treaties, had Swedish names.
          1. Toroptsev
            +17
            7 January 2012 15: 59
            What are the Swedish names? Rurik, Igor, Oleg, Sineus? Know the history, cudgel!
            1. ballian
              -22
              7 January 2012 16: 07
              Thank you laugh :)))
              Rurik - Distorted Swedish Rurik
              Igor - distorted Swedish Ingvar
              Oleg - Distorted Swedish Helg
              "Sineus" is also a distorted Swedish "kind" (Swedish sine hus) - or did you think it was a mutant with a blue mustache? :)))
              1. serge
                +13
                7 January 2012 17: 41
                Sineus sounds painfully modern, and trying to remake this name in Swedish just sounds weird.
                - in the ancient Russian chronicles the names Igor and Ingvar are mentioned
                like different names.
                -Polish linguist S. Rospond in his work “Structure and classification
                East Slavic anthroponyms ”includes the name Oleg among other
                East Slavic anthroponyms "to nominal archetypes not found elsewhere." “Some of these archetypes,” writes Rospond, “are confirmed by ancient sources ... Oleg, Olga, Igor, Gleb, Uleb, Duleb, which are incorrectly recognized by the Nordic, should also be included here.”
              2. +2
                15 January 2012 11: 37
                Quote: ballian
                Rurik - a distorted Swedish Rørik Igor - a distorted Swedish Ingvar Oleg - a distorted Swedish Helg "Sineus" - also a distorted Swedish "kind" (Swedish sine hus) - or did you think it was a mutant with a blue mustache? :)))





                And if the same thing, just the opposite?
            2. puzirilo
              +8
              8 January 2012 21: 30
              Igo in Old Slavonic - translates as ORDER! Hence the Slavic name IGOR-keeper of order! Think with your head!
              1. +15
                28 November 2020 01: 40
                Quote: puzirilo
                Igo in Old Church Slavonic - translates as ORDER!

                Yoke - according to Dahl's dictionary yoke, that is, a yoke for cattle.
                The order in the Old Slavic language is RYAD.
                Igor has nothing to do with the name Igo.
            3. volodjachess
              0
              2 February 2012 18: 52
              Correctly! What are the Swedes and Vikings? Rurik, Sineus, Oleg - these are the same Slavs.
          2. serge
            +12
            7 January 2012 17: 43
            The Swedes called Russia "Gardarika" - a country of cities. That is. they themselves lived in the villages.
            Now you invite the Swede from the village as mayor to St. Petersburg?
            Ridiculous?
            1. ballian
              -13
              7 January 2012 19: 35
              about the "country of cities" - this is strong - this term meant approximately a fortress-fortification
              1. serge
                +14
                7 January 2012 20: 08
                Those. did the Swedes even not know the fortifications at that time? And these Chukhons were invited to reign in Novgorod and Kiev? Well right, that's strong.
          3. spirin199
            0
            14 February 2012 20: 45
            you confuse or just want to crap chtol
        2. orion-sticks
          +16
          7 January 2012 14: 54
          Rurik Truvor and Sineus were grandchildren of the Novgorod prince Gostomysl who RULED at the Varangians. So who called whom?
          1. ballian
            -23
            7 January 2012 16: 11
            These are your fantasies - there was no Gostomysl, in addition, he called them their Swedish names.
            1. serge
              +12
              7 January 2012 17: 21
              -The first legends about Gostomysl appeared in the First Sofia Chronicle
              -In the annals of the Stephen Novgorod book indicate that Gostomysl died in old age. His grave allegedly exists in the area of ​​Bolotov Hill near Novgorod
              -His name is found in the Western annals as the name of the leader of the Wends (Western Slavs)
              -In the Resurrection Chronicle XVI it is reported that the Varangians from Prussia were called up on the advice of the Gostomysl
              Photos were not invented then and I can’t post the jpeg file with Gostomysl here, please call.
              The names of the Varangians-Slavs were not identical to the Russians.
              Rorikov, Ingvars and Helgs are not in Russian chronicles. The rest is speculation
              Swedes and Swedes.
              If you distort the words, then Rurik-Kiev prince-rorog (falcon in Slavic). And there is a falcon on the current Maloross coat of arms.
              1. ballian
                -16
                7 January 2012 19: 47
                So I say - Gostomysl appeared a lot later, after half a thousand years - and all historians consider it bullshit,
                About names - these are Swedish names - any historian will say - do not burst from an excess of pseudo-patriotism. - Do not try to explain what you do not understand.
                1. serge
                  +12
                  7 January 2012 20: 32
                  On the basis of a much more controversial bible and its Old Testament (Torah, in your opinion), Jews captured Palestine. That's complete ... (by the way Do you know what f .... oh fen? This is criminal pederastic jargon. Learn, may stop using the letter and culture will increase).
                  "So I say ..." You, young man, have megalomania. Pay attention, I refer only to written sources. And the theory of the Normanists was considered nonsense by Lomonosov. But for you, of course, he is not a scientist. Karamzin (Tatar) I have nothing against the Tatars, by the way) was a supporter of the Normanist theory, in Soviet times this theory was denied.
                  In general, this is a debate for 400 years. I do not think that you understand me more than that.
                  So do not meddle with the pork snout in the ranks.
                  1. ballian
                    -17
                    7 January 2012 21: 05
                    "Himself" Lomonosov - I have already been destroyed. Lomonosov as a historian does not represent anything, if you studied even in the USSR, you know that.
                    Well, it would seem the USSR - but since the 60s the so-called "Normanism" and in the USSR have been recognized as the real beginning of the Russian state.

                    In general, as far as we know, the first mention of the "dew" dates back to 839, where it is clearer than what is clear from the text that the "dew" and the Swedes are one and the same.
                    It's not just banal about the names of the main princes, for example, after reading the agreement of the princes "Oleg" with Byzantium, you can find out that among the "signatories" (then these princes were not at all some kind of absolute monarchs) there were practically only Swedes, in the Treaty of Prince "Igor" again the overwhelming majority of the signatories are Swedes, but Slavs appear. (and everyone swears by the Slavic god Perun) .... and so on and so forth - there are a lot of sources on this topic (the Internet is packed too). - well, it's just obvious - the core that united the Slavs were the Vikings, who quickly became glorified, well, no one argues that Bulgaria was created by the Turks - the Bulgars who united the Slavs., and England by the Normans. ,,,,,,,, too lazy to list - the whole history of Europe with the collapse of the Roman Empire = it comes some tribe somewhere and creates a state.
                    1. serge
                      +14
                      7 January 2012 22: 49
                      -Lomonosov as a historian does not represent anything, to put it mildly, not true.
                      -I studied in the USSR. No Normans were taught in history lessons.
                      -The first mention of Russians is Et-Ruski. They called themselves "rasena".
                      In this regard, on the Internet there is a darkness of material. Yes, he who seeks will find.
                      -Varangians is a Russian word. It meant a group of people who came from afar and not necessarily for military purposes. In the 70s, he himself heard how in a village (Volga region) a team of builders who arrived came to be called Varangians for their eyes.
                      -To Varangians, at that time part of Oleg’s squad, not necessarily Normans, rather it’s a fighting community of dashing people of different tribes (originally
                      Baltic - Normans, Vendians (= Vandals), encouraged).
                      - The Chronicle tells how “Oleg's ideology to the Greeks”, taking with him allies - “many Varangians, and Slovens, and Chyud, and Krivichi, and Meru, and Derevlyani, and Radimichi, and Polyana, and Severo, and Vyatichi, and Croats , and Duleby, and Tivertsy "- and" on horses and on ships will come to Constantinople. " So there were not only Varangians in the squad. And we don't need to define the Normans as our ancestors. We have different genetics with the Scandinavians. About Oleg's battles with the Russians, nothing is known either. And inviting wild alien Normans "to the kingdom" is voluntary, well
                      not funny? The Vikings were Slavs.
                      1. +20
                        28 November 2020 01: 50
                        Quote: serge
                        -The first mention of Russians is Et-Ruski. They called themselves "rasena".

                        Etruscans are the modern Italian name for an ancient people who came to the Apennine Peninsula either from the Northern Alps or, according to Herodotus, from Lydia. The name of the people in Latin was Tuski. You have specified the self-name correctly Resen. The Etruscans have nothing to do with the Russian people.
                    2. spirin199
                      0
                      14 February 2012 20: 47
                      thank God we will leave the sov brothers
                  2. 0
                    21 January 2012 14: 32
                    "_F_u_f_l_o", "_f_y_f_e_l_l_" - fake, fake; a person posing as a person of a higher rank in the prison hierarchy; when opened, it is usually subject to "lowering".
                    "- And what is it for?
                    - On a bayonet he made a proffelion: a cormorant, but he mowed under the lawful one.
                    Medvedev A.P. Behind the fence.
                    So the jargon is criminal, but not pederastic.
                2. 0
                  7 January 2012 20: 36
                  By the way, it was founded by the Vikings and not by the Swedes, the Vikings also called them, Russia, like Sweden, formed later. and if it was absolutely earlier then everything went from Adam and Eve, but that does not make us obligated to anyone. but how did you manage to gather tribes the question is not studied and long
                  1. +2
                    8 January 2012 16: 12
                    I agree! The Vikings were called not Sveis, but Normans!

                    The terms "Viking" and "Varyag" are not identical ...
          2. +4
            10 January 2012 13: 19
            In some sources, Rurik was the nephew of Gostomysl, but the essence of your statement does not change fellow
        3. +12
          28 November 2020 01: 33
          Quote: LTL70
          let the Vikings not stutter about their cultural role in Russian history - Rurik was invited by the wise Slavs as a crisis manager and only

          Was there Rurik? That is the question. wink
          1. +1
            19 December 2020 14: 15
            Was. Lomonosov confirms the existence of Rurik.
      2. puzirilo
        +6
        8 January 2012 21: 28
        So maybe all the same they will deceive us and the Great Patriotic War helped us win the Americans and the British on our land while the Russians were hiding in the forests? Maybe it was so? Maybe in our textbooks the history was misinterpreted? Who knows what? (JOKE!) Now they want to appropriate our victory. Therefore, you can not lose memory and pass from generation to generation, from grandfathers to grandchildren, etc. And it will soon turn out that the Soviet Union did not fight at all or the first attacked the civilized west ?!
  5. Sokol peruna
    +31
    7 January 2012 09: 59
    It’s not strange, but the ROC most of all puts a hand on the silence of our history
    1. Perseus
      +34
      7 January 2012 10: 14
      That's for sure! you can scold Europeans and Americans for a long time, but only in our country the patriarch of all Russia on the day of Slavic culture (last year) could say about his own people that "the Slavs were barbarians, second-class people, almost animals" .. without comment as they say ..
      1. Farkash
        +12
        7 January 2012 11: 53
        And to become an ideal Christian, you need to live in shit, eat shit and wash your shit, thereby disgracing the devil.
      2. +4
        7 January 2012 21: 22
        if we talk about our culture as the first, then this is paganism. the patriarch can’t praise paganism
      3. stalker
        +2
        8 January 2012 01: 41
        I watched this video. The phrase you quoted is taken out of context.
      4. puzirilo
        +4
        8 January 2012 21: 44
        I totally support Perseya! that radish is our patriarch. Although what is our ours? For me it is not ours at all! Let yourself be considered God's slaves. And the Slavs always considered the gods to be equal to themselves because they are our ancestors-fathers and grandfathers, and we are their grandchildren. And they did not stand on their knees before the gods and did not hit the floor with their foreheads.
    2. Farkash
      +10
      7 January 2012 12: 03
      There is nothing strange here. Take, for example, the canonized Saint Alexy, who was the Metropolitan of All Russia during the reign of Dmitry Donskoy. This glorious husband, using his church dignity, deceived him and took the son of the Tver prince hostage and imprisoned him in order to neutralize his father. The question is: how to qualify this from the point of view of criminal law and will modern churchmen remember this?
      This is just one example offhand.
      1. Tyumen
        +3
        7 January 2012 12: 34
        Quote: Farkash
        took the son of the Tver prince hostage and put the son of the Tver prince "in the woods" to neutralize his father.

        Yes, Alexy is the first terrorist in Russia. smile
        1. Farkash
          +4
          7 January 2012 12: 46
          Well, to be objective, then most likely the first terrorist was Kiev Princess Olga, who burned the Drevlyansky Iskorosten with the help of birds with attached burning wicks. The woman took revenge for her murdered husband, almost a suicide bomber, however. smile
          1. Tyumen
            +10
            7 January 2012 13: 11
            The woman was vindictive, with humor (black). But buried in a boat, burned in a bathhouse, drunk and killed at the feast of the Drevlyans? This is love! smile
            1. Farkash
              +6
              7 January 2012 13: 26
              Bury the rook
              He will light the neighbor's hut! smile
            2. dugalop
              +2
              8 January 2012 19: 16
              The Truth About Prince Igor
              http://slav-radio.moy.su/blog/pravda_o_knjaze_igore/2011-11-09-139
      2. Perseus
        +12
        7 January 2012 14: 02
        Do not confuse true Orthodoxy with what the priests are pushing us, does the Bible approve of such acts ?? no. The main law of Orthodoxy "God is love"
    3. serge
      +11
      7 January 2012 17: 29
      Well, the ROC is a Christian church, and the name has been added to itself "Orthodox".
      When Christianity was implanted in Russia, two-thirds of the population of that time perished. For the rest, the church was renamed from Christian to Orthodox so that it was more familiar. And "Orthodoxy" is not a Christian word, but the name of an ancient Russian (Slavic) religion. Ask any believer what the word means "Orthodoxy", most of them will open their mouths. At the same time, it should be noted that over the past 1000 years the church has in many ways become precisely Russian, as the name implies. But the ancient faith is a competitor for them, and therefore hatred for it.
      1. NUT
        NUT
        +4
        8 January 2012 00: 42
        Quote: serge
        During the planting of Christianity in Russia, two-thirds of the then population died

        Or maybe there were no other options at that time, so that we could gather us up to a heap of gouging. In fact, the Russian people did not have anything in common and uniform, everyone lived his own head, everyone prayed for his own frog or hedgehog, he composed his own laws for any sage - unifier, at best he sent to yuh ...
        And at the expense of faith, at least obosrites. but the names, as I understand it, speak for themselves:
        ORTHODOXY - Right, true, truthful, rightful, Glorious, glorified or glorified by loud glory, famous, famous, revered, offered, praised everywhere
        Catholics - in Old Russian and modern Ukrainian, nothing more than a murderer, a monster and an executioner
        PROTESTANTS - hell you, my friend, what you please, everything is wrong, everything is not right
        JEWS - here, I think, comments are unnecessary
        It is not in vain that Lenin and his companion and the others with whom we do not drink, those who wanted Russia, to crush and destroy all Russian and Russian, so that there would be no spirit left, first of all, our temples began to be destroyed, with hot iron, torture and death, faith in they destroyed us
        Gouging through life, but I was a pioneer, a Komsomol member, there was not much mind, but always, passing by a church destroyed, then always with gold domes, I can’t explain, apart from my will, there was a desire to thank, glorify and cross myself somewhere very deep inside but somehow people are ashamed
        And yet I can’t force myself to kiss the priest’s hand, probably either I or the pop-priest is not worthy of this ...
        1. puzirilo
          +5
          8 January 2012 21: 55
          Pop from the word priest. Orthodoxy among the Slavs meant praising the RIGHT! Reveal, nav and rule three different worlds among the Slavs. Rule the world of gods and departed ancestors, reality is the world in which people live, nav is the world of spirits, dark forces. Study the faith of our ancestors, not history (history).
          1. Gur
            +2
            10 January 2012 09: 25
            ))) Others interpret it as .. POP - Trampled fathers' ashes, Orthodoxy .. Right - I praise .. Living in truth .. The correct name .. of today's believers .. Orthodox peasants .. "Orthodox" name was changed .. (what a priest I don't remember anymore) and fixed by Stalin .. some kind of directive (I don't remember either ... well, my memory was not to hell))))) during the Second World War. And do not touch Lenin ... what has he got to do with it ?? This is what we now refer to religion. (for the most part) without fanaticism .. and earlier as it was ?? ..from here .. "How much is opium for the people ??" When in their majority they arrived in ignorance .. My grandmother is 96 years old, when they were younger .. or rather, I was still a kid .. I happened to listen to their bazaars of women .. And like it says in the scripture .. iron birds will fly in the sky and the whole world will be entangled with wire .. and so on and so on .. So I always interfered with the topic .. that planes flew before her birth .. and the telegraph was invented too .. How angry they were))))))
          2. NUT
            NUT
            +8
            10 January 2012 10: 48
            Quote: puzirilo
            Study the faith of our ancestors, not history (history).

            I studied history, puzirilo, taught and noticed that the history written in cozy offices by doctors and academics is different from the one that was told by grandparents at the stove, but told on a bench under an apple tree. Therefore, he concluded to himself that above each, starting with the rock inscriptions, the historian stood and stands a "representative of the customer" with a club, sword, pistol or bag of money, and that means "this music" was specially ordered for me ...

            So if the real story is interesting, do not disdain the dear Puzirilo, ditch a couple of hours of your life with grandmothers after a samovar, and talk with grandfathers over a bottle, asking everything to the smallest detail for historical details are drawn from blue little things ...
            1. +2
              22 January 2012 01: 25
              I personally have been doing this for a long time. Old men can tell a lot of things ... It is sharply inconsistent with officialdom and even some dissertations ...
              1. +2
                19 December 2020 15: 07
                Indeed, listening to our older generation, a completely different story looms directly opposite to the official one ...
      2. volodjachess
        0
        2 February 2012 18: 58
        Orthodoxy is half pagan.
        1. +3
          19 December 2020 15: 06
          I would not say so categorically. There is something, but not enough.
  6. dred
    +1
    7 January 2012 10: 07
    The eternal memory of our ancestors.
  7. +7
    7 January 2012 10: 17
    Offset for the article! And just thanks!
  8. +33
    7 January 2012 10: 17
    We should also mention that our ancestors were very clean, unlike the west, where even under the feudal system cities and castles were littered with carrion, garbage, stench and diseases reigned (plague, cholera, lice, rats). Queen Elizabeth English she boasted that she washed only 2 times in her life, at birth, and when she got married. Imagine an amber! By the way, the French thought it was necessary to make all kinds of aromatic substances, which later became perfumes.
    1. ZEBRASH
      +7
      7 January 2012 10: 40
      http://solojumper.livejournal.com/152357.html - вот отрывок из задорновского концерта на эту тему. Немного утрировано, но в принципе ведь всё так!
    2. +10
      8 January 2012 00: 34
      And the contents of the night pot, highly cultured Europeans must have poured onto their pavements right from the window.
    3. volodjachess
      0
      2 February 2012 19: 03
      Correctly! In the 12th century, in the west they did not know what a sheet and pillowcase were. The daughter of Yaroslav the Wise wrote about this in a letter to her father. In Russia, there were already baths (soap).
      1. +2
        19 December 2020 15: 13
        The "cultured and enlightened" West did not know a lot of what our ancestors knew.
    4. -1
      3 February 2012 17: 30
      Absolute truth! "Cultural" French nobles urinated in the corners of the Louvre corridors and wiped themselves with cambric handkerchiefs (reusable, by the way), and Europeans died half of Europe from plague and cholera outbreaks due to the complete lack of hygiene. And they call us barbarians?
  9. Farkash
    +13
    7 January 2012 10: 32
    The article is literate, very useful to read, especially for young people and all "zealots of Christianity" for whom Russia does not exist before baptism. In my opinion, Christianity brought to Russia not the light of truth, but on the contrary - slavery, darkness and obscurantism.
    1. Helmut
      +6
      7 January 2012 11: 31
      Of course, Russia existed even before Christianity, and it was not at all a backward community, as it is sometimes customary to say. But before turning into a puddle with the words: "Christianity brought to Russia not the light of truth, but on the contrary - slavery, darkness and obscurantism" - you need to think a little with your head. And at least a little to study history for at least the fifth grade and find out what processes took place in Europe and the world at the time of the baptism of Russia and learn at least a little about the consequences of Christianization. It's just not clear, is it nice to look like a clown on the forum?
      1. Farkash
        +2
        7 January 2012 11: 48
        Instead of studying history for the 5th grade, read, dear "servant of God", it is better to serious literature and then we will discuss who is the clown farting into a puddle.
        1. Helmut
          0
          7 January 2012 13: 58
          For you, probably Tolkien serious literature? Do you study history according to Perunov?
          1. Farkash
            +3
            7 January 2012 18: 34
            I regret that besides Tolkien and Perumov, nothing more serious has occurred to you. By the way, I am not a pagan in your understanding and not an atheist, do not be so nervous, please, this is harmful to health, drink kefir for the night.
          2. Al_miller
            +2
            8 January 2012 06: 27
            And Perunov is who? Dear, so as not to get into the prosak (what is the need to explain the prosak?), Either be careful, or pay attention to your education. Yes, and Tolkien - he is also Tolkien. Even if Tolkien can be attributed to transcription, then Perunov - no matter how!
        2. Perseus
          +6
          7 January 2012 14: 17
          it is fashionable to be a pagan now, but it is still a relic. Once our natural science teacher at the institute told me that the development of science could have happened in the Christian world, because the Bible did not assert, as it did in paganism, that if, for example, it rains, or lightning flashes, this is the work of God, it does not give answers to such questions, and people saw these "blank spots", this prompted interest in research, and no matter how ignorant "padres" in Europe strangled science (witches, the Inquisition, other obscurantism), the truth, as they say, won. And in general, what a big difference to whom the people pray, all the same all generations of people ask the gods, from God the same thing: good luck, happiness and health for themselves and their loved ones, a bright future for their children, their country.
          1. Rexei
            +3
            9 January 2012 02: 15
            Hmm, but the fact that Christianity "hindered" the development of science is this taken into account? A man flew at the expense of hot air - that's all, Satan's assistant! Someone said that the Earth is not the center of the Universe - to fire it! Although, on the other hand, paganism also hindered science ... If we assume that God throws lightning and do not try to find out how everything really is ... this is also a serious brake))
            Another example recalled: in ancient Egypt, the science of the body was highly developed, i.e. they loved to study the bodies of the dead and find out how a person works, due to this they could heal many diseases ... But in Christianity it was considered to be blasphemy to touch the bodies of the dead, I just don’t remember exactly the forbidden activity. That's how religion can slow down science ...
            1. +3
              9 January 2012 17: 30
              Quote: Rexei
              Hmm, but the fact that Christianity "hindered" the development of science is this taken into account? A man flew at the expense of hot air - that's all, Satan's assistant! Someone said that the Earth is not the center of the Universe - to fire it!

              you must admit that this is more of a trick of the Inquisition, the Orthodox did not like to warm so coldly the faithful, although it also happened
              or maybe not all science was slowed down?
              at the monasteries there were libraries, chronicles were written, some hospitals, medicine, and there was no talk about art
              1. Rexei
                +3
                9 January 2012 21: 45
                Not all, but most of the "branches" of science were inhibited. Well, I'm not talking about warming up in faith, I'm talking about the fact that everything new was adopted for a very long time and very willingly punished those who showed "new" (and this was not only done by the Inquisition) I'm not talking about art either: in Orthodoxy, it seems, it was forbidden to draw people for a long time, but then they gave up on it :)
                1. +4
                  9 January 2012 23: 24
                  Quote: Rexei
                  in Orthodoxy, it seems forbidden to draw people for a long time

                  I don’t know about this either, the Koran is definitely still
                  even without the image of people, did icon painting give few masterpieces, murals?
                  stained glass although it is more catholic
          2. +3
            19 December 2020 15: 16
            The ancient civilizations of Egypt, Mesopotamia, Hellas did not exist and did not know about Christianity. Their science developed and has survived to this day.
      2. orion-sticks
        +3
        7 January 2012 15: 01
        9 million Slavs killed of 12 by Prince Vladimir, plus two of his own brothers, this is the beginning of Christianization.
        1. +2
          7 January 2012 21: 25
          What are the reasons for such figures?
        2. +4
          8 January 2012 16: 19
          Quote: orion-stiks
          9 million Slavs killed of 12 by Prince Vladimir, plus two of his own brothers, this is the beginning of Christianization.

          Have you come up with? :)
          Strongly reminds x-nude about "bloody Stalin" who almost personally tortured tens of millions in dungeons ...
        3. 0
          21 January 2012 15: 07
          9 million - did he drop the atomic bomb? And not one? Watch out with giant numbers.
          And the brothers - Christianization has nothing to do with it - politics, however. His brothers had more rights to the princely throne, here he is of them and that ...
  10. NUT
    NUT
    +4
    7 January 2012 11: 08
    "Return to your roots and you will open the gates to the Divine World"
    Commandments of God Ramhat
  11. +5
    7 January 2012 11: 24
    I join all the comments. The article is competent, only facts without exaggeration and speculation. Authors credit.
  12. Tyumen
    +23
    7 January 2012 11: 27
    [about the "magnificent chain mail from Russia", which was acquired by the protagonist.

    In a Scandinavian museum, an ancient Viking sword was stored for a long time, about a thousand years old. When it was treated with a chemical reagent, the inscription * Ludot koval * was found on the blade. Shock. Here is such a wild Russia. But the Russian damask steel was not afraid of frost, unlike the Persian and Indian, which broke from a strong blow in the frost.
    1. +3
      8 January 2012 17: 16
      The fact is that Russian damask steel was hardened precisely in the cold. The red-hot blade was handed over to the rider, who rode until the sword cooled. Such hardening was possible only at a sufficiently low temperature and humidity. In this case, additional nitriding of the steel of the blade occurred. For comparison, a similar operation of nitriding blades in Damascus was performed by sticking a red-hot blade into the body of a slave.
      1. Tyumen
        +2
        8 January 2012 22: 11
        Well, suppose damask steel and damask steel are two different things. Damask steel, Damascus-multilayer. But damask in Damascus was not forged. PS I do not refute your words, so I reflect.
        1. puzirilo
          +2
          8 January 2012 22: 39
          And here you have an interesting reference with analysis about knightly armor that is currently stored in museums in many countries and is issued for millennia, etc. read to anyone interested !!!!

          http://clubs.ya.ru/4611686018427444433/replies.xml?item_no=1281

          http://genocid.net/news_content.php?id=1184
          1. Rexei
            +2
            9 January 2012 02: 41
            A clever man, the author of the article .... Please tell me: how did the ancient people build the pyramids? Nobody will raise one stone there, not even a few hundred slaves (there isn’t enough space for all hands under the stone). And yet: people in those days really were much stronger than those now, why don’t they calmly wear 70kg and fight for several hours at the same time? The Teutonic knights also fell under the ice under the weight of light chain mail (or what they wore if not heavy armor?). Yes, in museums they can easily deceive people by passing off high-tech armor as real, but even among them there are real ... Before writing such an article, I had to study a lot of things, and as you can see, the author just I taught metallurgy and read a couple of books, (well, maybe I took a couple of photos) and immediately wrote such an article. I agree that they can rewrite history, but not so much!
            1. 0
              21 January 2012 15: 14
              The human mind is invincible by ingenuity ... Have you not heard about such things as rollers, blocks, levers? And the engineering priests in Egypt knew mechanics no worse than Archimedes. And the technology of building the pyramids was very simple ...
              As for armor, in our time, an ordinary good blacksmith (well, "ordinary" - I turned it down, are there many blacksmiths working the old fashioned way now?), A fan of his craft, working with an old forge, hammer and anvil, can do this ... Why couldn't they then? The ancestors were no more stupid than us. And in their field they were great professionals.
          2. Dimedroll
            0
            26 January 2012 22: 37
            The article about armor is complete! He wrote a complete ignoramus in the processing of metals, and besides, he also had an alarmist! Of course, some questions are quite fair, but this one, like
            "1,2-1,7 mm. This thickness is commensurate with the thickness of roofing or sheet iron and does not protect against anything.
            A reasonable question immediately arises: why make an armor that does not protect its owner from anything? "
            "made of rolled sheet iron by pressing on a plate (especially helmets)"
            "If you know how to make sheet steel the size of a handkerchief, you can also make it the size of a KAMAZ." etc. - author go from!
        2. +3
          9 January 2012 00: 29
          Quote: Tyumen 35
          Well, suppose damask steel and damask steel are two different things. Damask steel, Damascus-multilayer.

          You are absolutely right! But this is a question of generally accepted terminology :)
          In fact, in ancient times, real cast damask was only Indian. It is more correct to call multilayer blades "Damascus steel", but there is also a "technological" term "welded damask".

          Sobssno, and in Russia, and in Damascus, and even in Japan, it was precisely multilayer welded blades that were forged.
          The secret of cast damask steel in India was lost, but in the mid-19th century it was restored by the Russian metallurgist Anosov in Zlatoust.
          1. Tyumen
            +3
            9 January 2012 01: 05
            I see, a knowledgeable person, nice. But in Russia it was forged cast damask steel, and not multi-layered Damascus. And Anosov restored the secret of Russian Bulat. And the old ingots of Indian damask steel in the form of cakes (wutz) can still be found in some places today. True, I'm afraid to even guess how much they cost. And * welded damask steel * - this, sorry, on the conscience of modern blacksmiths, is simply a mutually exclusive concept. Today in Russia, many forge cast damask steel, the secret has long been restored and improved, they have already reached stainless steel damask and damascus. Arkhangelsk with his daughter, Pampuha, Danilov, Kirpichov ... Kuznetsov full.
  13. +6
    7 January 2012 11: 31
    The retelling of the famous, not the article.
    It is based on traditional, Scaligerian chronology.
    It would be worthwhile to study more closely the new chronology from Fomenko-Nosovsky.
    I do not urge anyone to immediately become adherents of the new chronology. I do not urge anyone to blindly believe her. It turned out that I mastered both chronologies. The new one looks more slim and evidence-based.
    There is also an excellent work by Kungurov "There was no Kievan Rus. Or what historians are hiding." This does not in any way refer to the new chronology, but it leaves no stone unturned from the traditional one.
    Author Samsonov Alexander told everything in good faith. Thank you for at least standing for Russia.
    1. Al_miller
      +4
      8 January 2012 06: 39
      Any theory can be easily built correctly and convincingly. It would be a skill. The main thing is the prerequisites. Dr. Goebbels is an example to you. Yes, and pendosnya honestly fulfills its bread and butter. For some reason, no one denies the Empire of Charlemagne or the Empire of Genghis, but Kievan Rus was not! Does this seem strange to you? No suspicions creep into your head?
    2. +1
      21 January 2012 15: 17
      Just not Nosovsky and Fomenko! These are charlatans. There are many other - good - professional historians with alternative opinions, such as my beloved Lyzlov or modern - Grinevich.
      Kievan Rus was not? Oh well.
  14. Sokol peruna
    +12
    7 January 2012 11: 39
    Until then, at least one Svyatorus Alive is alive. Our long-standing history
  15. sazhka0
    +2
    7 January 2012 11: 45
    I watched from beginning to end .. Some kind of crap turns out .. Well, it's not clear .. So many years they hammered their heads and SUDDENLY .. Then you need to think .. In principle, I watched all the films from this "source" it turns out complete nonsense .. and

    strange the word bred in Russian is "taboo"
    1. +8
      7 January 2012 13: 50
      One must not live on what one's head was thrown at eleven years ago, but be interested in, study, compare. It’s practically impossible for historians to make changes to historical data. In old studies, they wrote candidate and doctoral studies. And now, is everything back? It doesn’t happen. That is life.
  16. Nilfgaard
    -4
    7 January 2012 12: 15
    A person who has studied this issue for a while will immediately see copy-paste from the works of clients of fools at home and other creators whose work is paid for from grants of various funds, for example, the Canadian Foundation for the Support of Neo-Paganism in Russia.
    I am very disappointed that such a rather serious resource gets so ignorant articles.
    At first you would at least read the first works of Rybakov. And then reading about the Slavs of elves is at least ridiculous.

    Ah yes. As I understand it, proflinks are not needed, and so do they?
    1. Helmut
      +5
      7 January 2012 13: 55
      That's right. All this clowning with paganism is just a fashion and nothing more. Neopaganism is another nail in the coffin of Russia which is forged by the same jackals that created the Ukrainian nationality, they do everything to destroy Russia and do not disdain anything. Enemies are trying to split us not only ethnically, politically, but now they have taken up the religious aspects.
    2. Dimedroll
      +1
      26 January 2012 22: 42
      I'm very upset about that. pretty serious resourceso ignorant articles fall

      Killed ... on the spot! lol wink
  17. Ivan Krasov
    +3
    7 January 2012 12: 37
    "... The only bright spots are the Norman Varangians, who" brought "the light of the foundations of civilization to Russia (according to the Norman theory) and Princess Olga trying to instill the principles of Christianity in savages."

    Probably, Princess Olga was nevertheless closer to that time than modern explorers and therefore personally saw the shortcomings of the pagan way of life and the advantages of Christianity. Therefore, she has more confidence.
    1. Helmut
      +2
      7 January 2012 14: 32
      Absolutely right. Russia is worth it. That rallied to the peak of the steppe and became a nation that did not bend.
    2. orion-sticks
      +1
      7 January 2012 15: 08
      And suddenly, at this moment, she had her periods. I would not have trusted her.
  18. +22
    7 January 2012 12: 57
    I read all the comments. Opinions about the article from a full minus to a full plus. Strong polarization, which means that the article is not a passing article, hurts the living. Therefore, the author for the article plus.
    What I would like to note is that the Author calls for large-scale research into the history of pre-Christian Russia. The historical examples that he gives in the article are intended only to confirm the need for such research. He does not consider them to be the ultimate truth, and you only convince us of one thing - "... In fact, at present, Russia needs something like the German "Heritage of the Ancestors" (Ahnenerbe). And it is not necessary to get up in a pose and say like ugh "abomination", fascism. The gloomy Teutonic genius introduced many novelties into the world circulation. It is clear that mysticism, occultism, racism and Nazism have nothing to do in such an institution, but it is necessary to carry out a huge amount of work in the field of archeology, history, the origins of Russia ... ". And I completely agree with this statement by Autoroa.
    Thank you for reading my voluminous post to the end.
  19. Nilfgaard
    -9
    7 January 2012 13: 04
    although if you try to understand the faith of the ancestors, it becomes clear that it was a sunny, bright belief, filled with universal harmony, goodness and justice. --- Burning people in trees is a manifestation of kindness and justice. And mass orgies and worship of the genitals, lordship and universal harmony. Damn it is so amusing.
    Almost every item can be annealed not childishly.

    1. Farkash
      +6
      7 January 2012 13: 40
      Yes, yes, and even more amuse the auto-da-fe for the glory of God with all the Christian meekness without shedding blood. And the burning of schismatic monasteries and heretics like captain-lieutenant Voznitsyn is so funny!
    2. Perseus
      +6
      7 January 2012 14: 18
      where you found genital worship
      1. Farkash
        +5
        7 January 2012 14: 42
        Who hurts! wink
    3. Helmut
      +4
      7 January 2012 14: 38
      Cool off Nilf-gaard. No need to trample on the faith of their ancestors, they were the bearers of this faith and in battle trusted in the Gods.
      1. dugalop
        +3
        8 January 2012 19: 25
        Did not hope, but praised their gods and ancestors, and the gods always helped their great-great-grandchildren !!!
    4. orion-sticks
      0
      7 January 2012 14: 45
      Give evidence, or on the principle: the smith had a grandfather as a fascist.
    5. kazak1983
      +4
      17 January 2012 22: 42
      this is where you found such interesting things about burning people and worshiping the genitals. bloody sacrifices were forbidden among the Slavs, and they worshiped and worshiped their Ancestors !! it’s in your west that the Inquisition of non-believers burned because now they are destroying entire countries and peoples who do not want to believe in their shit democracy and write us their own story, and not ours, so that we forget our roots and become cattle and slaves .. But this is not to be while we remember the ancestors, our grandfathers who laid their heads for us and left us our land rich in nature, resources, so that we live normally, but only our resources all go west, and we calmly look at it stuffing our pockets, not thinking about our future about our children !!! our children will curse us, but we left them a landfill and dead land where it will not be possible to live !! like this..
  20. atheist
    +12
    7 January 2012 13: 34
    many peoples of Europe came from behind the Urals (Bulgarians, Romanians, and others), and recent finds in the Urals say that people lived in the Urals 12000 years ago, and the first civilization in Eurasia arose in modern Yakutia, this is the first
    the second is that according to new data from 8-12 billion years old, and we are not the first civilization on earth, and who knows, maybe we are all descendants of one large civilization that has perished in the abyss of war or other cataclysms
    the third is that religion was still before the new era, but it is customary to count from the birth of Jesus. All religion comes from one source, and many do not even know what and where it came from and say that they are believers, and not all the truth is told to fanatics, only a part
  21. +22
    7 January 2012 14: 01
    The West did not want, does not want and in the near future does not want to admit that the ancestors of the Slavs were an educated civilization. They always try to hammer into our heads that we came from wild tribes, very far from Western civilization. The Western way of life, the so-called Western democracy, is now being imposed on us. And it depends only on us how and what our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will think of us. Homeland begins primarily with knowledge of the historical origin and development of our ancestors. Russia has been and will forever be a Great, highly educated civilization, unless of course we dare ourselves.
    1. orion-sticks
      +7
      7 January 2012 14: 37
      Bravo AleksUkr You have a thousand pluses from me!
    2. Al_miller
      +2
      8 January 2012 06: 55
      I don’t have to hammer into my head that we came from wild tribes. I already know that. And what, there are those who immediately owned high technology? Compared to the ancient Egyptian or Roman civilizations, we are children. And in Central Asia, observatories were built when our ancestors walked in the shoes of animals. So what? Where are they now? And we are Great Russia, Moscow is the third Rome, and there will never be a fourth! If this were not so, the pendoses with jackals would not have arranged a saber dance around.
    3. puzirilo
      +4
      8 January 2012 23: 09
      For those who do not believe in the thousand-year history of Russia, I advise you to visit the artillery museum in St. Petersburg, namely the hall with art. tools of 14-15 centuries. So there are guns (14-15 c) on the carriages of which the following inscriptions are cast I can not vouch for accuracy, but the meaning is cast by the fact that the first or last name in 7046 is from the SMZH. I think the gunsmith in those days was out of politics and did not write history, but simply did his job. He did not need to deceive and cast the left inscription. Think further yourself.
      And for those who do not live in St. Petersburg or are too lazy to go to art. museum I advise you to watch the film 1 or 2 I don’t remember exactly from the Wings of Russia cycle "about artillery. So there the presenter is in this museum and leads a story about old cannons. It is he who reads this inscription with the indication of the year, although he himself apparently even does not understand what kind of date it is!
    4. +3
      23 January 2012 17: 09
      I agree. I watched a film about the Beijing Historical Museum or something on TV, and so there this Chinese guide pointing to the artifact (a piece of ancient silk with hieroglyphs) said, "This silk was made 4000 thousand years ago and that it says that then, that is four thousand years ago, China traded with Russia and, in particular, silk too. "
  22. orion-sticks
    +17
    7 January 2012 14: 33
    It is known that Ancient Rome smoothly flowed out of the highest culture of the Etruscans, who inhabited the Apenines long before Romulus and Remus. So the writing of the Etruscans coincides by 85% with the writing of the ancient Rosich. On the famous gold disc from the city of Festa, found a hundred years ago on the island of Crete, made Etruscans have an inscription: "Russia charms the eyes anywhere from it. It will not be denied where you will be. There will be children. There will be a wonderful life." This inscription was deciphered by Grinevich 20 years ago, but no one is talking about it, everyone is silent. Because of the Roman statehood, which adopted all the "civilized" countries, there is a Slavic prehistory.
    1. +12
      7 January 2012 15: 25
      I see that I'm not the only one turned on a new chronology.
      And with the Etruscans - it's the Russians ... in general, a circus.
      The most interesting thing is this well-known and in the 19th century theme - the decoding of Etruscan records based on Slavic languages ​​- and then there was T A B U ...
      And now even more so.
      Is it possible for the Slavs (supposedly from the Latin slave - SLAB) to recognize a culture more ancient than ROME and derivatives .. ??
      Then you have to admit that they have undeniable rights to their own territories, their resources. How then to justify the cut?
      Until we carry ourselves high, no one will want to reckon with us!
      1. 0
        8 January 2012 00: 12
        http://passion-don.org/history-1/chapter-6.html
        Evgraf Saveliev, 1908
      2. -2
        15 January 2012 12: 01
        As for the Etruscans, I completely agree .... Zadornov joked, but the people did not understand the humor
        1. sir
          +1
          16 January 2012 13: 20
          by the way he was not so joking as it seems fellow
  23. Nilfgaard
    +3
    7 January 2012 14: 56
    School reform is paying off. The same number of dreamers is there. And few people have enough gray matter to see who sponsors this same fantasy. Oh, it’s more interesting to read pulp fiction from Western funds than to study at least the works of 19th century scholars.

    Grinevich deciphered this inscription 20 years --- 20 years ago when, after the crash of the curtain, similar garbage flowed on a par with Jehovahists, seintologists. Oh yes, I noticed that all these decryptors do not have Russian surnames. Paradox.
    1. +1
      7 January 2012 17: 41
      +1, at least one really thinking person
    2. orion-sticks
      +8
      7 January 2012 18: 40
      Just you on the platform Schletser and others like him. If the names of scientists of the 19th century do not make it difficult. And as for the surnames, the Russian is not Russian, take the Old Testament there are no surnames afftorof at all.
  24. suharev-52
    +12
    7 January 2012 15: 11
    Respect for the article to the author. Of course, in this article, only a grain of sand from the mountain of material necessary for discussion is touched. I would also like to contribute to this discussion. Some people stress that there is no written evidence of a developed pre-Christian civilization. I would like to consider this issue in more detail. Christianity has existed on the territory of Russia for 1000 years. The adherents of this religion purposefully destroyed all documents mentioning the pre-Christian history of Russia. In addition, the Semites, claiming to be the "chosen by God" nation, purposefully bought for (as they claim) 3000 years all documentary sources in which at least the Rus or Aryans were mentioned. More of these documents were nowhere and no one saw. I don't need to prove to anyone that there is a purposeful struggle against the Russian people (who has a sound mind). Well, those who wish to malign - Flag in hand.
    1. kazak1983
      +3
      17 January 2012 22: 51
      support !!!
  25. +8
    7 January 2012 15: 14
    Regarding Proto-Slavic writing and civilization, I highly recommend watching the 2003 documentary dir. Alexey Muratov "Secrets of Slavic Civilization". The film certainly does not claim to be "the ultimate truth", but very informative.
  26. +7
    7 January 2012 15: 19
    the article is worthy of a history textbook, although the reformers of the present 3,14 will not contribute, they took one paragraph to ALL (!!!) battles of the Great Patriotic War
    or podpindosniki?
  27. Nilfgaard
    -2
    7 January 2012 15: 39
    For the 1000 years that Christianity exists on the territory of Russia. The adherents of this religion PURPOSED to destroy all documents mentioning the pre-Christian history of Russia --- But you saved it, yes? Are there any traces from Maya and no Slavs from Nano? Surprisingly.
    Semites - claiming to be the "chosen one" --- These are your Semites kokraz and decipher the ancient Agyan inscriptions.
  28. +10
    7 January 2012 16: 09
    A useful article, we must know who we really are, and from whom we descend, to the evil of the Vatican and the whole West that hated the Russian state in whatever form. GLORY TO RUSSIA!! GLORY OF GREAT RUSSIA !!
  29. +3
    7 January 2012 16: 45
    I have acquaintances, many (just as some write here) say, "priests, priests impose this", although the "priests" themselves only saw on TV or heard from someone else's words. And Orthodoxy, by the way, is one of the main enemies of the Anglo-Saxons and Judeo-Masons, so they are trying to burn it out with a hot iron in Russia since about 17 years. So before Orthodoxy and "priests" find fault, think with your head, to whose tune your friends are dancing. Merry Christmas to all readers of the site! !!
    1. orion-sticks
      +8
      7 January 2012 18: 26
      Therefore, they want to admit that the Russian Christian religion did not become similar to the Western Christian religion, but preserved the seed of Vedic Orthodoxy. Merry Christmas!
    2. +8
      7 January 2012 21: 30
      Well, nobody cherishes them, and it’s kind of ... (damn tautology ...)

      Such times were then ...

      After the adoption of Christianity as directed party King the Grand Duke eradicated everything related to paganism-idolatry ...
      The first to come to the Christian faith of the Rus came Greek missionaries ...
      The Greeks did not know the Old Slavonic writings, and everything that was not Christian and incomprehensible at this crucial moment was a pagan heresy and burned, and along the way the history of the Slavs-Russians went into the fire ...
      Dark times and morals ...

      Now over there in Egypt the "fighters" for democracy have burned down the historical library ...

      With the fall of the western part of the Roman Empire, the TRUE Christian faith remained in the east of the empire (Byzantium) and Orthodoxy adheres to this faith without changing ...
      Orthodoxy together with the Slavs across the throat to Western renegades from time immemorial ...
      They probably feel that they have betrayed the faith and are trying to belittle the whole history of the Slavs ...

      Quote: Igarr
      Is it possible for the Slavs (supposedly from the Latin slave - SLAB) to recognize a culture more ancient than ROME and derivatives .. ??
      Yeah, how many slaves fled to the east ...
      Can we distort?
      The "good" western neighbors of our ancestors of the Slavs were captured into slavery, and then Latin came from the captives of the Slavs - slave

      The Slavs in theology are those who correctly-praised God, I mean Orthodoxe, and the self-name of the tribes of the Slavs gave names to the peoples already ...
  30. +8
    7 January 2012 18: 51
    Unfortunately, we know very little our history, and as for ancient history, even less. Very few enthusiasts who try to study Russia in the depths of centuries. At the same time, when they try to publish their findings, they run into the rejection of the so-called official historians. Although not even possessing deep knowledge in history, it seems strange that Novgorod invited the Varangians who also did not have cities.
  31. +13
    7 January 2012 19: 01
    I want to note 2 moment of irrational hatred of the elite of Western civilization to Russia.
    1. Westerners put their civilization above all because they believe that it is based on the civilization of Great Rome. And here it turns out that the foundation of Roman civilization is based on the civilization of the Etruscans. Therefore, an unshakable attitude is urgently adopted: "Etruscan is not readable."
    Those. have already read the writing of the Egyptians and the Sumerians, the ancient Chinese, and the Mayans with the Incas, and the Etruscan language is Egyptian darkness for official science.
    And since the Etruscans were one of the branches of the ancient Russians, then imagine - what a blow to the vanity of a Western man? Straight sickle on the glands. How do they feel the secondary nature of their civilization? And to whom?
    It turns out that their entire civilization, of which they are so proud, was founded by the ancestors of the Russians, the dark and the gray-eyed, whom they had produced in their minds into natural slaves, but in fact could not in any way subdue for many millennia.
    2. If you dig even deeper, then you need to consider the process of settling the European peninsula.
    Even official science recognizes that originally this peninsula was inhabited by primitive Neanderthals, and only then several waves of people of the modern type, called modern Cro-Magnons, flowed into it.
    The same science claims that the Cro-Magnons crowded out Neanderthals. Moreover, it is particularly and persistently notes that Neanderthals were completely destroyed and did not participate in the formation of the genotype of the modern European man.
    I think also not by chance. Because it is not necessary to carry out unique experiments using genetic engineering to make sure that the features of Neanderthals in the guise of modern Europeans are preserved. Just look at the inhabitants of European cities. Who was not there - at least remember what the quite famous Carl del Ponte looks like.
    If it is clarified that the settlement of Europe by a man of the modern type (in its pure form) came from the territory of modern southern Russia, and EUROPEANS ARE only HYBRIDES of Cro-Magnonites with Neanderthals, then what is it for zoological racists to be aware of?

    In general, to whom this question is interesting, read in detail Yu.D.Petukhov "History of Russ".
    For my incomplete 60 years, I had to read a lot of interesting and useful books (above average). On my shelves are read and Rybakov, and Karamzin and many others, and I can say that the most logical and orderly questions of the history of the ancient world and the Middle Ages are set out in the writings of the recommended author.
  32. Nilfgaard
    0
    7 January 2012 19: 02
    years from the 17th about ---- ---- Not really, but much earlier. Remember at least the Crusaders who tried to bring the right faith to Russia.
    There was no Vedism in Russia. There was paganism, but it had nothing to do with Indian garbage. All this is a Western stuffing. This is not even hidden.
  33. ISO
    ISO
    +3
    7 January 2012 19: 25
    Few facts, many okhov. Paganism is too idealized. And mores were more skinny than now. People not only knew what cutlets were made of, but were also aware of human anatomy, for example, what would fall out if they chopped a sword in the stomach or an ax with a nape. So it is possible that for the benefit of society they could also sacrifice individual representatives to receive the mercy of the gods. Christians, also not in the white gloves of their faith, paved the way to the hearts of neophytes. Times were just so simpler.
  34. +10
    7 January 2012 20: 19
    Rurik is a rarog in Old Slavonic falcon. At that time the Germanic tribes had already begun to push the Slavs from the Baltic coast, and therefore the SLAVIC PRINCES left the tribe of vigorous to their relatives in the east. How they were later called to the throne does not matter anymore, because they were OWN The Norman theory of the formation of the state in Russia was written by the Germans A.L. Schloetser, G.F. Miller, G.Z.Bayer back in the 18th century. For example, what Schlözer wrote about us: "Wild, rough scattered Slavs began to become people only thanks to the mediation of the Germans. "How they made people of the Slavs can be judged by the fate of the Prussian tribe completely destroyed by them and not only destroyed them. And only a descendant of Rurik, Prince Alexander Nevsky, stopped the knight-dogs in their march to the East. He said:" Who with a sword he will come to us from the sword and will perish, on which the Russian Land has stood and will remain! "
    1. mvkot120669
      +5
      8 January 2012 01: 40
      It's funny ... only there was no campaign of "knight dogs" to the East ... There was a simple punitive expedition for the fact that Novgorodians just a few months before frolicked in the Lands of these Knight Dogs ..
  35. resdnl
    +8
    7 January 2012 20: 44
    this Russia was once in 100 neat that Europe
  36. J_silver
    -5
    7 January 2012 22: 35
    Another topic for jerking off - that's all and unfolded in full glory ...
    And what's the point of arguing? Well, there is really no documentary evidence either to confirm or to refute these hypotheses!
    Here we are ready to smash our faces in disputes about the history that was happening before our eyes, and here the depth of centuries, in which there was not even a calendar, nor normal chronicles - absolutely ANYTHING!
    Not a single chronicle can serve as a reliable source, especially since almost all of them are proven to be fakes, or at least hoaxes of the maximum of the last three hundred or four hundred years ...
    1. Volkhov
      +7
      8 January 2012 02: 19
      Scientific knowledge, transmitted through ornaments, Perun's pillar, Chisloboga's circle, alloys in swords and pillars without any letters speak of a culture higher than modern - with nuclear physics, physics of time, astrophysics.
      Contemporaries, except the Germans of Hitler and partly the Zionists, do not want to understand this, and remain unarmed in front of nature.
  37. wow
    +6
    7 January 2012 22: 46
    "Europeitsi" hi put your "values" in your anus!
  38. coast
    -6
    7 January 2012 22: 49
    blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
  39. Strabo
    +10
    7 January 2012 23: 00
    Surprised by naivety. Well, of course, official science deliberately distorted history and its history was written by foreigners. Well, they did not want to see the Russians strong and literate. So they came up with the myth of grayness and wildness. And this will happen until the time they officially rewrite history. Facts about the antiquity of Russian are enough for the eyes. Show West research, excavations and everything will fall into place. Well, it is not profitable for Jews to see Russia as mighty. So this disgrace is going on. And what is taught in schools is ridiculous even ..... lying science to protect the interests of the state, but of the state and not of the people.
    1. +5
      8 January 2012 03: 18
      Well, all rulers distort history and how they benefit ...
      Jews most likely have nothing to do with it ... it was just that Jesus was a Jew and he was betrayed by them, since he began to introduce his faith (which the majority later believed), and not the faith of his fathers ...
      The Romans executed (pagans), but no one has hated Italians so far ...
      Jews in the Middle Ages until the end of 1945 were always outcasts in Europe ...

      And on the history of Russian statehood ....
      The Slavs il there still some identical tribes-states of the Slavs conquered some, others remained free like: Kievan-Novgorod-Moscow Russia, etc., the West has always envied the wealth of our lands, longed for them and will continue to long for them ...

      And the West needs
      Ivan, not knowing kinship ...


      There are birch bark with the letters Rouxсkimi (Ukrainians and russwe are one nation, even though the West has now divided us ...) and reading these birch barks I came to the conclusion that they could write not only how it happened in Western Europe, but also ordinary people ...
      It took a little to our times ..., they burned a lot during the Christianization of Russia as a pagan heresy, because they were written with letters unknown to the Greeks, and as a result, almost nothing was left of the annals of our people ...
      Rurik came to Russia and the Russians got off the Christmas tree, instead of cones they began to eat meat ...
      The West is pleased that it can rewrite our history, and judging by historians who refer to Western sources, in general they have progress so far ...
  40. 755962
    +6
    8 January 2012 00: 17
    See the root.http: //www.daaria.info/? P = 1709

    And back centuries http://www.dopotopa.com/giperborea_-_severnaya_rodina_chelovechestva.html
  41. mvkot120669
    +2
    8 January 2012 01: 33
    Very funny article !!! Especially in light of the fact that the current Brilliant Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Kirilushka in RUSSIAN publicly says that the Slavs were made people by the priests !!! And before that they were second-class people, almost beasts "!!!! Proof of this, so he himself says it:
    http://video.mail.ru/mail/mvkot120669/_myvideo/190.html
  42. zavesa01
    +10
    8 January 2012 09: 22
    Christianity was PLANTED on Russia forcibly to destroy the true freedoms of man. Christianity is a religion of slaves requiring obedience and patience from its followers. Therefore, Russia and resisted these religions. It was beneficial for Igor to govern the people. The cultures of the Vikings and the Slavs have a lot in common, the main one is the vision of God not as a ruler, but as an elder brother, from here equality begins. The squads of the Slavs and Vikings are organized in the same way. The king or voivode is not appointed, but elective and is the senior among equals (the chieftain of the Cossacks) does not enjoy any privileges outside the war. Decisions are made at the meeting of the Slavs and in the long house of the Vikings. Well, etc. Another important factor is the influence of wives in both cultures; in both, women are equal to men in everything as a sister and higher than men as a MOTHER. Women in exceptional cases could even prohibit a military campaign. Real warriors knew perfectly well that “anyone can take life, but only women can give them.” It was from there that it came about that it was impossible to raise hands against women. In Europe, which originally underestimated women and treated women as the focus of evil, such an attitude never existed.
    By the way, A. Nevsky killed his brothers. The Novgorod veche called him with the squad in both cases. Z zachit can be considered it, following the pro-Western history, king. However, it is now clear that he has the same relation to Normandy as he does to Adam and Eve.
    Based on the foregoing, it follows that, not genetically but culturally, the Vikings and I were pretty close, which means we did not consider them enemies and foreigners, and after all, whoever is not an enemy is a friend. Separation of cultures is beneficial to someone. Just like now, some guys have other pairs, they mean nothing in common.
    PS. Both Vikings and Pomors are wonderful sailors.
    PS. PS. Thank you for reading the opus to the end, a little messy but a lot of emotions.
    1. serge
      0
      8 January 2012 19: 10
      With all due respect to your opinion of the Vikings' friends, Alexander earned the nickname Nevsky precisely for his victory over these "friends".
  43. go_by
    +3
    8 January 2012 14: 25
    Gentlemen, comrades and military personnel. Do not make yourself cereal in your head. Before you abandon Christianity, read the New Testament. If laziness or no time, read the direct speech of Jesus. Only yourself, without the help of others. What is slavish and what is Jewish? Think with your head and answer the question: why did Jewish paganism curse Christ? Orthodox Christianity itself does not deny the light that the Slavs had before the adoption of Christianity. Generally readable. But only the primary sources, not foreign interpretations. Everything can be turned inside out ....
    Here is an interesting material for the curious. Subtitles by pressing "ss"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BoUDp4tmShQ
    1. Barbarian
      +3
      13 January 2012 20: 50
      If laziness or no time, read the direct speech of Jesus

      Ready to read with pleasure the direct speech of Jesus, who is the author of the dreamers?
  44. SAMEDOV SULEYMAN
    +6
    8 January 2012 15: 21
    The article is very intelligent and informative, I did not know a lot of things, thanks to the author. And another important factor, in contrast to Europe, Russia was clean, that is, diseases like the plague, cholera was not from here the conclusion of the Rus were clean.
    1. +5
      8 January 2012 15: 57
      Quote: SAMEDOV SULEYMAN
      Rusichi were clean.

      it’s also from the notorious backwardness, chemistry is not developed, so that there is no stink to pour, so every week be kind to the bath
      and they are still trying to explain to us how to live
      1. Rexei
        +4
        9 January 2012 21: 47
        if chemistry would be developed, ours would be sent to it by the forest, but we would still go to the bathhouse b — it’s not only cleanliness, it’s also relaxation for the soul :)
        1. 0
          9 January 2012 23: 27
          bath then yes, respectfully!
          but about chemistry, I voiced another Pindos "cleverness"
      2. 0
        21 January 2012 15: 25
        Even if there was a perfume, we would still go, because the bathhouse is a buzz! wink
    2. Grin
      +3
      8 January 2012 16: 07
      Hence the conclusion that there were no large cities like in Europe. Most likely there were many fortresses with villages beneath them (close to the walls), which resulted in a misleading impression about the abundance of cities. And since villages are quite large spaces, each garden has , well, etc., unlike the cramped stone European cities, hence there were no diseases.
  45. Grin
    +2
    8 January 2012 16: 09
    And in general, this is an advertisement by M. Semyonova, the author of the famous novel "Wolfhound")))
    Joke:)
  46. kopcep
    +6
    8 January 2012 16: 35
    The article coped with the task. Like most of them. Firstly, she excited, urged to express boiling. All comments, of course, are analyzed, a detailed "map" of the opinions of the "people" and the "cultural elite" on this and not only issue is drawn up. Secondly, it raised the "level of patriotism" of those who are hooked on this drug, which so easily solves many questions of life (and supporters of the opposite view got a great opportunity to present their no more argumed point of view). After all, many, if not all of the arguments of the article can be (and one should try at least to ensure that such tyap-bloopers are not perceived as the truth in the last instance) is quite easy to dispute, since there is no actually carried out scientific work, there are not even references to sources of information. Honestly, such links are not particularly needed. As practice shows, you can misrepresent anything in writing, but in our age of Photoshop you can only believe what you see with your own eyes, but for this you need to at least tear off your priest and go to the museum (I am silent about the excavations).
    Regarding the question itself. That's just to raise nationalism in the country is not necessary. There is no need for brainwashing about the great pedagogy-Aryans-Etruscans-Ukroarii and others. Even if they were great. It will not lead to anything good. Again a split into believers in A, believers in B and other X. Again lack of constructiveness and bone. Moreover, if our ancestors were as great as many would like to believe, then we would live differently. In short, there is no need to boast, and even more so since it has long become history. But you need to have a sense of dignity (not superiority), accept the ancestors as they were and go forward. without stepping on the old rake and even more so without creating new ones, giving out wishful thinking. The fact that the ancestors lived in cities in the modern sense of the word is in my opinion. The city, as a huge population density, is an unnatural phenomenon for Russia. Firstly, who would then process / defend huge spaces? Secondly, the city is an environment of increased competition for survival. And who needs it when there is so much land? And, judging by the relations between Russian people in comparison with other peoples, Russians did not live in such fierce competition among themselves. Hence the long absence of a state superstructure over a society of free and equal, the absence of a rigid pyramid-shaped model of society. All this appeared later, when paganism was supplanted by Christianity. Just in those conditions, paganism, as a system of managing society, has become obsolete, because it was based on the already ineffective (primarily in the competition of peoples for a place under the sun) social order. What was before baptism I can only speculate. The Slavs, unlike the Western peoples, inherited and for quite a long time retained a large part of the sacred knowledge about the world from the previous world civilization or the civilization that was the successor of this knowledge. But due to the fact that knowledge has lost its integrity, the grain of crystallization, so to speak, uniting it into a system and giving it the opportunity to grow, this knowledge was destroyed and lost over time. Periodically, with the complete loss of certain important fragments, crises of civilizations-heirs of knowledge came. Our Russian civilization is no exception. Apparently, the baptism of Rus became a consequence of the next big crisis. Speaking of writing. I’m not afraid to express my opinion. Writing is the result of degradation, not progress. Well, or just development in the other direction :) After all, now the measure of progress is the technical development of society. If we assume that the previous civilization considered the development of human abilities a measure of progress, then it could simply not need writing technology as such. Why write down what you know? And what everyone already knows? In India, ancient sacred texts (Vedas or what?) Were memorized word by word and memorized now. In Russia, too, many works for a long time passed from mouth to mouth, until they were finally recorded. Does this not mean development, and not about the underdevelopment of people of antiquity? How many now have such a memory? And these facts are widely known. What can we say about what is now considered fairy tales?
  47. Volkhov
    +4
    8 January 2012 17: 41
    The city is not unnatural for Russia, because schools and joint defense are possible there - because the "city" is fenced off. And writing began to be used more after catastrophes, when the life span was reduced from 900 to 80 years and direct long-term training became impossible. Baptism is, of course, a crisis caused by expansion and the next stage of internal decay.
  48. LiRoy
    +9
    8 January 2012 17: 42
    Our history was written to us in the 17th century by the Germans, hence the Norman theories all over there, representing the Slavs as second-class people, incapable of state self-organization. I would especially like to note the destruction of the Western Slavs inhabiting the territory of modern Germany.

    Modern German cities have retained Slavic roots in their names: Brandenburg from Branibor, Mersenburg from Mezhibor, Königsberg from Krulevets, Posen from Poznan, Danzing from Gdansk, Terglav from Triglav, Beiten from Budzyszyn, Bamberg from Jaromir, Wustren from Svobor Island, Shkob Kohlberg from Kolobreg.
  49. baba_s_vilami
    +3
    8 January 2012 18: 11
    There is such a prof. V.A. Chudinov, who has been studying the Old Russian language for the past 20 years, the so-called runic and runic writing. The most striking thing for me was not even that the runes are these “ancestors” of our letters, but that they are not “revealed” to everyone.) They themselves “choose” to whom they are ready to reveal their secrets, and to whom no. To people who do not love Mother Russia, people with a fierce heart, trying to understand something there does not make sense. And for those who are interested in our ancient roots, I recommend that you at least watch for a start videos with speeches by Prof. Chudinov (there are a lot of them on the Internet).
    About how our ancestors "wrote" on stones about 40000 years ago, the professor tells and shows in this video - http://video.yandex.ru/#search?text=%D0%B2.%D0%B0.% D1% 87% D1% 83% D0% B4% D0% B8% D0% BD
    %D0%BE%D0%B2&where=all&filmId=12164779-09-12
    ... and many others.)
    In addition to him, I know another person with whom the runes also "spoke" themselves. He initially had a completely different approach, but, oddly enough, he came to exactly the same conclusion - the runes speak Russian.
  50. ballian
    -6
    8 January 2012 18: 14
    I don’t see something mitrich - probably, having looked here, he finally understood where it "floats" :)))
  51. Eligor chaos
    +4
    8 January 2012 18: 19
    great article!!!! +1000000
  52. +10
    8 January 2012 19: 59
    1. Nemchura (Schletser and co) concocted a custom story for the Russians: supposedly the Germans, represented by the Swedes, founded the Russian state.
    The question must be posed differently: who founded France, England, Denmark, Sweden, the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies and other “German” states.
    The first French dynasty was the Merovingians (Slavs).
    Anyone who saw the film “King Arthur” could not help but note that even Western filmmakers were forced to name the true homeland of the knights of King Arthur’s Round Table - southern Rus'. However, they did not have the courage to tell the complete truth: they present Arthur himself as the son of a Roman and local tribes. However, it cannot be that the ataman of the Cossack circle (Round Table) was a foreigner. Even his name says so. Arthur in English is Yar-Tur in Russian (similar to Bui-Tur-Vsevolod from “The Tale of Igor’s Campaign”).
    The Danish king, who defeated Arkona on Ruyan (now Rügen, and in Russian epics - Buyan Island) bore a characteristic “Germanic” name - Voldemar.
    We still need to thoroughly understand what kind of Germans they were, i.e. who really are the Britons, Goths, Swedes, Danes and others. For example, the Vandals who defeated the slave-holding plague of Europe - vile Rome, are indisputably called Germans in school textbooks and had a Slavic language. In the 19th century, no one doubted this, since a dictionary of the Vandal language was published, where, for example, the Vandal “winter”, “mets” and “baba” corresponded to the Russian “winter”, “sword” and “woman”, and etc.
    2. At the time of Rurik’s calling, there were no traces of any Swedes or Norwegians. These nationalities were formed, according to various estimates, on average by the 16th-17th centuries. There were ancestors of Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, Icelanders, and Faroese. They spoke the same language - as is commonly believed, Old Scandinavian (but this is only a geographical definition of a language like “Old Balkan” or “Old Crimean”).
    The archaisms remaining in these languages ​​indicate that they developed from Slavic languages. For example, the name of the Swedish bank “Svenska Handelsbanken” or the old Danish newspaper “Danska Bladet” (cf. “Polish army”, “Slovenian language”)
    Since it is impossible to completely rewrite books in posts, for those who are interested, I recommend:
    - Yu.D. Petukhov “Normans. Rus of the North";
    - L.N. Ryzhkov “On the antiquities of the Russian language.”
    The main thing is that we must not allow not only the material assets we have created (land, factories, factories, etc.) to be stolen from us, but also our history, turning our Russian people into a historical misunderstanding.
    1. +3
      9 January 2012 09: 29
      Quote: kosopuz
      For example, the vandals who defeated the slave-holding plague of Europe - vile Rome, are undeniably called Germans in school textbooks and had a Slavic language

      Rome is no longer the same, but here are the followers... those who called everyone else barbarians, who spoke differently, smelled, etc., etc. enough
      who is now, under the guise of defending world democracy and homosexuality (the Romans, they say, were also amateurs) is trying to seize power over the world, who teaches us life (liberasty, pedophilia and the Roman thing - bestiality - drawings on vases to prove it) and who calls us barbarians?
      They don’t know history, what did Rome “teach everyone” to?

      PS It’s all disgusting to look at, but the historical parallels are encouraging
  53. Shuriken
    +2
    8 January 2012 20: 15
    Well, don’t distort too much about languages. It’s just that three thousand years ago, the Slavs, the Germans (Scandinavians, Germans, Anglo-Saxons), and the Balts were one people. The language, accordingly, was also the same. Hence, there are a lot of similar words, the protomorphemes are the same. If you are interested, “List of Proto-Indo-European roots” on the wiki
    1. serge
      +2
      8 January 2012 20: 23
      One people were peoples with the same genetics, for example: Russian Little Russians, Belarusians, Poles, Slovaks. The Germans and Scandinavians have different genetics. And the proto-language is the same, of course.
      1. LiRoy
        +6
        8 January 2012 21: 45
        The kinship of Germans and Scandinavians is a controversial issue. Let's say, if you look at the Scandinavian languages, then in most of their words you can trace suffixes characteristic of the languages ​​of the Slavic group, and not the Germanic one.
    2. -8
      8 January 2012 20: 44
      Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians also seem to have been one people until recently.
      But it turns out that Russians and Ukrainians (at least) are completely different peoples, both in terms of race, tribe, culture and, most importantly. Our languages ​​are also completely unrelated.
  54. +1
    8 January 2012 20: 39
    There are materials on genetics at www.germanicvs.com/
  55. Shuriken
    +4
    8 January 2012 20: 40
    Serge, your posts are excellent, I usually add them, but here let me disagree. What is LANGUAGE? This is one of the main defining characteristics of the PEOPLE. And if there is only one proto-language... Yes, later there was a division into Slavs, Germans and others, but the ancestors were the same - Hyperboreans or Aryans, if you like
    1. serge
      0
      13 January 2012 10: 24
      Aryans and the white race are one and the same. Within one race there are different nations and different languages. The languages ​​of all Aryan nations overlap in many ways.
      On this basis, a conclusion is drawn about a common proto-language (the proto-language of the Aryan race, of course, I did not mean other races).
  56. puzirilo
    0
    8 January 2012 23: 49
    Then answer me this question: “Where did people with black, red, yellow skin come from? And why did they live in certain places on different continents, and not populate the entire planet?
    1. Volkhov
      +3
      9 January 2012 16: 09
      The Itelmen in Kamchatka directly say that they were brought on metal birds, and until the 17th century they had many elements of tropical culture in their buildings.
    2. serge
      +3
      13 January 2012 10: 11
      Where did people with black, red, yellow skin come from?
      ------------------------------------------------
      Does anyone already know the answer to this?
      1. sams
        -2
        13 January 2012 13: 49
        There is comprehensive information about this.
        To accept it, you need to reach a certain level of esoteric knowledge.
      2. +2
        13 January 2012 13: 52
        >From

        Do you want a fairy tale? Just in advance: no need to swear! Then - here you go
        http://www.peshera.org/khrono/khrono-05.html
        As it was said, a fairy tale for good fellows, not for mountain hecklers. fellow
      3. Volkhov
        +1
        24 January 2012 16: 59
        Black - Sirius. There ok. 2000 years ago, the red giant became a white dwarf, some were taken out, for example the Dogons, and before that there was an import. Just sunbathing is useless - the Berbers, as they were white Carthaginians, remained so, climbing the desert with an ax in their belts - they have not lost the habit since the time of Hannibal.
  57. zavesa01
    +2
    9 January 2012 05: 05
    serge,
    Quote: serge
    With all due respect to your opinion of the Vikings' friends, Alexander earned the nickname Nevsky precisely for his victory over these "friends".

    I'm not talking about friendship with the Teutons at that time. I'm talking about the fact that the culture of both the Vikings and the Slavs has VERY much in common. In the same way, they are similar in appearance, i.e. in race and habitat (climate). And this means a lot, and now in Siberia the Shore living next door is closer than the distant Ukrainian, and therefore there are fewer disagreements. There is no doubt that the cultures absorbed neighboring beliefs. This means that you also need to study the culture of your neighbors, whose closest one is to each other.
  58. Astral
    0
    9 January 2012 16: 53
    Semyonova has the best novel Valkyrie.
  59. Makhalych
    -6
    9 January 2012 17: 25
    The article, although with a claim to sensationalism, is... about nothing in the grand scheme of things. Capital, well-known truths, plus distortions, conjectures and fantasies in the spirit of the notorious “Fomenko and co.”
  60. GAMER0761GB
    +3
    9 January 2012 22: 17
    History is currently being greatly distorted. After all, even in American schools (as far as I know, maybe it’s different now) they say that it was they who defeated the Germans, and the USSR only helped them.
  61. alatau_09
    +3
    10 January 2012 04: 14
    and the map is interesting...
  62. +3
    10 January 2012 16: 55
    Wow, what a write-up!

    As always, people have divorced themselves from the main meaning and theme of the site)

    History is written by the winner - right?

    don’t stop me from writing history, because I want the Russians to win! )))
  63. Makhalych
    +2
    10 January 2012 19: 50
    Quote: EVIL
    History is written by the winner - right?


    It’s a pity that now everyone is writing history.
    From outright Russophobes to some “Vasya Semechkin”, of whom I read three incomprehensible books and fancied myself a “historian” :-))
    So incomprehensible theories, vague “revelations” and outright nonsense appear. :-)))
    Rus' and the Russians are a Great Country and a Great People with a RICH history, but... they write a lot of nonsense now. People are FAR from knowing and understanding this story. Of course, they want the best, but it turns out... as always, through the ass... :-)))
  64. go
    +7
    11 January 2012 02: 34
    Without going into the annals of history, which is now difficult to analyze:

    I sometimes travel for work to Denmark, which was the homeland of the Vikings (there are the graves of their kings there) and then became a large kingdom - from the north. Germany to Norway, I can say that the Danes are really very similar to us both externally and internally. I have seen such characters with blue eyes and snub noses that putting a padded jacket on them would make them look like a Russian village peasant from the old days. The mentality is also a bit careless. There are, of course, more intelligentsia there, but they were eradicated here in 17.

    Olga, by the way, is a common name there (and these are not immigrants), I even heard Olga-Bank or something like that.

    So the lesson is that the Vikings sailed to America, to the North. I think it wasn’t a problem for them to reach Rus', unless of course, as it was written, there was generally one people.

    In my opinion there is nothing wrong with this.

    In general, many Europeans sympathize with Russia; one Dane happily told me that if it weren’t for us, Hitler would have torn them all apart. Many people do not want a unipolar world. Many people are truly alienated by the image of Russians, such klutzes, formed into Sov. time, and on the wave of emigration of Russian speakers in recent times. time (low-skilled labor), but in the full historical context this is not so important. We need to be friends with Europe, it won’t make things worse. We ourselves are closed from them.
    1. kopcep
      +4
      11 January 2012 09: 04
      I support. And comrade zavesa01 too. In terms of the fact that Russians and Normans/Vikings, or whatever you want to call them, are very close-minded peoples. I can’t boast that I’ve read a ton of authoritative literature. However, it seems that he was not born without eyes, ears and a head. Briefly speaking. Our peoples have had strong traditions of collectivism since ancient times, perhaps one could even say communism. They lived together, worked together and fought together. If anyone wants to say that the Vikings were stupid, evil, bloodthirsty and uncouth crowds of barbarians who only knew how to swing an axe, then let them be silent. It is known that they were good engineers. They built fortifications and dwellings that were beautiful for those times, and created ships that sailed at least from the Varangians to the Greeks (let’s keep quiet about America). So they were certainly not barbarians. He who can build a good city or ship can build a strong state. Another thing is that their (and our) way of building a state was fundamentally different from the Roman one, which has now spread everywhere. Our method is strong, equal to each other (rights and responsibilities), and therefore weakly connected structural units (clan, tribe, etc.). When everyone is more or less self-sufficient, then there are no reasons pushing for a larger association. As a result, weak statehood, i.e. a structure with weak connections (multiple genera, although within the genus the connections are, on the contrary, strong). The Roman system is more balanced. It breaks society down along more efficient lines. Society is divided not into units-gens that are stable in composition, but unstable in terms of interactions (hence the heterogeneity of connections in the system), but into class units that are more fluid in composition, but also more stable in terms of interactions. This stability of interactions allows us to build a rigid structure of the state. Depending on your goals, this structure can be changed within certain limits by simply swapping classes or, in addition, changing the characteristics of classes. Due to structural flexibility (the ability to change the level of communication between structural units at different levels of the structure), the “Roman” model of the state won. And, since the strongest survive, in the sense of those who managed to adapt to changing conditions in time, then we have what we have. Western countries, which easily accepted the “Roman” model of statehood, have gone far in their development from the rest. From those who partially (Russia, China, India, etc.) accepted, and even more so from those who just started. The rest will be absorbed and converted by force at the will of the expander.
      P.S. I started for health, I ended for... I apologize for being a little off topic :)
  65. +2
    11 January 2012 16: 29
    The porridge, both in the article and in most comments (there are also healthy ones), is sometimes funny, but more often sad. A triumph of ignorance, including on the part of the guardians of Christianity. Lack of source analysis. And a manic desire to find “greatness” at least in the ancestors. Ancestors are, of course, ancestors, and of course great, but how could it be otherwise? But none of the proposed concepts, including the “traditional version” of history, passes the test of economics. This, of course, is not very patriotic, but in general it is better to operate with unpleasant situations that are similar to the truth than to dream of pleasant nonsense. Do I need to explain why? The more realistic the view of what happened, the higher the likelihood of making the right decision in the future.
    The author, for all his outward rejection of the European-Christian choice, bases his judgments on a Eurocentric view of the historical process. Well, what kind of Kievan Rus can we talk about if the Dnieper was not navigable before the construction of the Dnieper Hydroelectric Station? Ten rapids.!!! The term "Zaporozhye" doesn't mean anything? They are bandits and robbers and other fugitives from power and settled there because the place was inaccessible and, in general, not needed by any state entities (until the invention in the 19th century of a heavy breather plow capable of opening a half-meter layer of steppe turf.) And Kyiv located above the rapids, it would be really difficult to get around if you still have to use this inconvenient waterway. By the way, do we need to explain why water arteries were so important in the ancient world? Well, just in case: rivers are a natural, often the only transport route that ensures the movement of significant masses of goods over considerable distances. But let's return to Kyiv. There were moments in the history of this city when it acquired exceptional economic importance, namely the period of the Crusades in the Balkans, the same time when the main European waterway turned out to be inaccessible to merchants (I’m talking about the Danube, the final part of the Great Silk Road), then and the role of “bypass routes” increased, so much so that the “central” government endowed local managers with some distinctive signs and even assigned lands a higher status than surrounding ones. For example, the appointment of Kyiv as a Grand Duchy (although not a crown land Knaght - knight, knecht - knight - prince, that is, a warrior endowed with the right of court), accordingly, the ruler of this land had a higher status and greater powers among other rulers of the surrounding lands. This, by the way, will serve as the main reason for the desire of many more developed rulers to have Kyiv as part of their possessions. But the Danube sooner or later again became accessible to merchants, and the role of Kiev fell sharply, which meanwhile is perfectly confirmed by sharp fluctuations in the number of inhabitants of the city, which for most of its history remained a provincial district center of various empires, until the strengthening and development of overland trade. So the topic transit, for the residents of this city has always been paramount wink By the way, was anything produced in Kyiv itself? Well, it’s relevant, necessary for world markets as well. Well, something for the sake of which it was necessary to undertake a difficult and inconvenient path? No, only transit, cargo transshipment. They didn’t even sow grain, despite the excellent black soil.
    continued below

    Or, for example, you can touch on the name itself. They “say,” and not even very convincingly, that the name of the city comes from the name of one of its founders - Kiya (the oldest source talking about this was discovered in 1696). But the most ancient sources that, from the point of view of domestic historiography, mention Kyiv will be Arab. But firstly, the Arabs will write to their northeastern neighbors (is it necessary? neighbors it turns out? and this is really so) without mentioning the founders of the city and even its rulers. I'll try not to distort it too much from memory. The meaning is approximately the following: some glorifying people live along our borders in the northeast in the lands called Slavia, Arta, Kuyavia (Cuyaba). That's all. Modern historians identify Kuyavia with Kiev, Slavia with Novgorod (the Slovenes are the inhabitants of the Novgorod land), and Arta is nothing, like, well, to hell with it. Such assumptions underlie historiography, not only ours, but all of it. But for example, I could offer a different identification to the three areas listed above. Let’s start with my beloved Kyiv (I really really love this city, amazing, beautiful, warm). In Russian, this word has no semantic meaning, in Russian toponymy this term is found only on the border with Ukraine (there is a station), in fact, from Ukrainian it is translated as a slob and so on, which is surprising, approximately the same semantic meaning this word has in Polish, but with in Czech it is completely translated as fool. Moreover, a significant part of Mazovia is still called Kuyavia today. That is, according to toponymy, modern Kyiv is on the periphery of the distribution of the term, therefore, with a high degree of probability, the Arabs wrote about Polish lands, and modern Kyiv received its name later and was founded by immigrants from Polish lands. (there is also the Kuyavia region in Brazil with approximately the same semantic meaning winked ) Well, with Slavia it’s even easier. Slavia is still in place, Slovakia. What is very far from Novgorod, why not Novgorod? Yes, because Arta first. My colleagues don’t want to identify Artu, they don’t want to, first of all, because they can’t do it in the area of ​​north-eastern Rus' and the most that some of them can do is make a comparison with a horde (military organization), which doesn’t stick together due to the chronological overlaps of the traditional version and in Mongolian there is no semantic translation for this term. But this is all right among the Poles’ neighbors, the Germans. there is an order as a military organization and, in general, “Ordnung” in German, order, organization... Work with sources and don’t be afraid to even come to unpleasant conclusions. And if the Arabs write about the “glorifying” as their neighbors in the northeast, who can be assumed to live in the territories of modern Poland, Germany and Slovakia with the Czech Republic, then damn where did the Arabs live then? This hardly means that the population of northeastern Rus' was Arab wink , but that the Arabs considered these lands to be theirs and their influence here was significant, there is no doubt, it’s just that later politicians decided that this was not a popular opinion and they made efforts to correct it. History is not written by historians. History is written by politicians.. historians will write as they say, and we will believe, because most of these provisions are not amenable to semantic analysis. And therefore, it is no coincidence that the area where the Russian nobility settled is called Arbat, and it is no coincidence that treasures of Arab dekhrems and silver are found along the entire length of the Volga route. It is no coincidence that the Volga Bulgars, under the influence of Arab culture (subordination through the replacement of the ruling elite and the extremely rigid introduction of the norms of Arabic writing - the Koran cannot be translated) are Islamized, remaining ethnically predominantly Finno-Ugric, like the Balkan Bulgarians themselves (who were recorded as both Slavs and Turks), what gods did they worship before? but who knows now? But from the Arabs, their ancestors Utugurs and Kutugurs (five Finno-Ugric tribes) fled together from the region of the North Caucasus, the Azov region and the Black Sea region where they lived together with the Alans and Goths (Crimea) under pressure from the Arabs (Obrov). Things are a little better with them, as if things were with the pre-Christian gods among the Russians of the Don region and the upper Volga), individual ideas have been preserved that today they are trying to formulate into a single complex of pagan beliefs.

    But they are not pagan, they are not Christian, they pre-Christian. Because Veles (Veles’s book) is Baal (Baal) And the worship of Yarila (the sun) is not paganism, it is pre-Christianity, Yaroslav is glorifying the sun. Slavs - glorifying - Bogoslavtsy (by the way, Hellenes is also translated wink ). What do we have with sun worship? Zoroastrianism? Mithraism? Allah (Ilyahu) is the same sun, like the prophet Elijah, who ascended to heaven in a solar chariot (Baal is the right rider in the chariot of the sun god). The headdress of the Pope (former Pontiff Maximus), a three-component crown-triara, is still called miter, and We still address our church hierarchs as “Lord” - in Semitic (Arabic and Hebrew) Baal, also known as Malik, Malch, Moloch, Melech, etc.
    1. 0
      11 January 2012 16: 37
      It’s just that once upon a time, at some stage in the development of ideological support for the better functioning of the economy in the metropolis, they once again decided to revise the basic principles. And they revised it, and not always peacefully (the seizure of property is no joke, you know), but on the periphery there was no such urgent need for a change of ideology and it regularly lingered there. And with the formation of new centers of attraction (with the development of technology) with the movement of the very concept of metropolis to new lands, the formation of new metropolises (usually accompanied by large-scale conquests), ideology and religion in particular adapt to the conditions in which the carriers have to function. Localized. There are more than one metropolis and, accordingly, centers of gravity, and they begin to compete with each other for resources that ensure survival.
      The list of analogies is much longer and will not fit in the comments. Kievan Rus is just one example of existing ideas that could not be translated into reality (the Volga and Dnieper basins do not intersect :)
      Most people at the subconscious level catch all these inconsistencies in the global worldview and look for it, turn to paganism and so on, but the problem lies in a different plane; the worldview is always local. When turning to paganism, people are not turning to something new, but only to a different stage of development of the same ideology. To an earlier one or even to a side branch winked And for a long time now there has been only one Semitic-Huritic culture on the planet (not Jewish, this is a Jewish particularity), there are no other significant ones left. It’s amazing that in disputes on this topic people are ready to do anything. And the only question is - attitude towards property.

      by the way for entertainment in your spare time
      translate words such as abarakadabra, Cossack, Cherkassy, ​​Bulgaria, Khazaria or for example Devil wink
      The role of language as a system, as a semantic series, is much greater than is commonly believed.
      But the traditional chronological scale goes to hell in all cases, but no one understands how to abandon the existing one with the least possible cost.
      P / S /
      I apologize in advance if I offended anyone's religious feelings. feel
    2. +5
      11 January 2012 20: 25
      I apologize, but from my point of view: about porridge - you are talking about yourself.
      If the Arabs ruled the territory of Kievan Rus at that time, then in addition to the treasures of their coins, their remains would have been found in significant quantities. But there are none.
      Regarding Semitic languages: downtrodden, non-politicized philologists derive them from proto-(proto-)Russian.
      For example: the name of their main god - Hosts - is a distorted name of the Russian god - Svarog (similarly: Vladimir - Volodymer, while the “r” was even more difficult for the ancestors of the current Semites than for today’s descendants, who are essentially hybrid Rus).
      Sorry again, but you should expand the range of sources you rely on.
      1. 0
        11 January 2012 22: 07
        yes who would doubt wink
        You need to read more carefully winked the territory of Kievan Rus is the Dnieper basin, this is dictated by the economy, the territory of the Volga region and the Upper Volga basin is a different economic region. Commodity flows between the first and second conglomerates are scanty, practically absent, and the local population living on a subsistence economy has no reason at all to communicate with people far away (accordingly, even with common ethnic roots, linguistic differences will accumulate, and borrowings will occur from languages ​​with native speakers communication, for example trade... Family ties (at the initial stage of colonization of lands) between the ruling elites of both regions are quite likely, they come from the same environment, doesn’t it bother you that all the nobility of Europe considers themselves related to each other? But in the future, without the reinforcement of a common (economic ) of interest, these ties will collapse, be interrupted. For example, Russian princesses were married to European monarchs, Russian princes actively married the daughters of steppe people at the initial stage of colonization of the lands, and then, as things went wrong, the reverse process began. winked
        Your passage about the remains is very interesting, the first thing that comes to mind is how do you distinguish the skeleton of an Arab (Semite or Khurite) from others? Are you measuring the skull and loins? Or do you mean clothes or some other related artifacts other than Arabic silver? so they also tend to be of eastern origin wink Just like the funeral rites of the first Russian princes, they are simply a copy of the Semitic ones. I'm talking about corpse burning. For a change, look at the works of Gerasimov's sculpture. I’m certainly not a professional anthropologist, this is a related discipline for me, but the phenotype is obviously not representative of the Nordic peoples winked More like an Uzbek or another representative of eastern peoples smile You can also look at the blue mosque of Bukhara and the Church of the Intercession of the Virgin Mary and spend a long time looking for stylistic differences and making something significant out of the insignificant. Or, for example, how did the Moscow rulers manage to succeed the emir of the same Bukhara? And if you dig up scans of Afanasy Nikitin’s notes online, you will be pleasantly surprised by his bilingualism, and he can switch from Russian (Old Serbian) to Turkic (a script adapted by the Arabs for the peoples of the East and the Volga region) right in the middle of a sentence, twice, and even It’s not very clear what language the common people spoke; for some reason they (maybe they weren’t literate?) didn’t leave records. However, with the Russian language it is even more complicated, as if the Russian nobility up to Pushkin’s times spoke all possible languages ​​- except for Russian itself, it is not possible to explain this fashion. And since Alexander Sergeevich was mentioned, he is actually called the main creator of the modern Russian language. They say he's a Negro wink winked smile In Africa, in Ethiopia, there are already two villages of his ancestors (which you can’t do for a Russian scholarship), but for some reason a monument to this great-grandson of “Blackmoor Peter the Great” was unveiled in Alexandria last spring, and a film about the adventures of this same great-grandfather was being filmed in Holland. at A.S. himself why there are completely no signs of the Negroid race, but there are quite a lot of them of Semitic origin, which, however, does not suit his role as a great Russian poet. However, by training he was just a historian and held a corresponding position at court. This, by the way, was the reason for his regular friction with the country’s leadership, which led to regular expulsions from the world to the countryside. Look at his fairy tales, they are anti-religious (anti-Christian), the kings in his works are numerous, and are of southern origin, and he has the audacity to publish all this, therefore, in Boldino, in Boldino, away from the archives, and certainly not to give anything to Pugachev’s uprising .. by the way, what a coincidence Both Pugachev (whom historians will explain to us as a “joking” in letters to Voltaire, Catherine called “Marquis”, there is generally a very strange French trace there) and Stenka Razin come from the same village - Zimoveyskaya. However, it was flooded during the construction of the Tsimlyansk reservoir, and in general everything with these Cossacks is somehow strange. Even they shouted at the Romanovs for the kingdom, did they have the right?
        Mass representations of historical events were virtualized long before the invention of the Internet zombie wink
        Sorry, I won’t comment on Sabaoth and Svarog, it’s not even funny, but the names, excuse me, I’ll quote you “downtrodden, non-politicized philologists derive them from the proto-Russian.”..... they will be extremely interesting to me, don’t hide them , I really love sources and will be happy to expand my horizons, and whether I should rely on them or not, I will somehow decide for myself using common sense. wink
        You will also remember R1A1 halogroups, it seems? At the same time, explain why the Kyrgyz are still not very similar to Russians or Ukrainians? winked

        I have already written that by analyzing materials you can come to any conclusions, preferably reasoned, of course, but you will only get an “academic” if your conclusions are in demand by politicians.
        1. +5
          13 January 2012 15: 03
          The circumstances are such that I can’t even go near the computer every day. And my time with him is limited. Therefore, it is not possible to refute in detail all the arguments you have presented. Offhand:
          - an average anthropologist will determine at first glance at the skull which subrace its former owner belongs to. A good anthropologist can do this for some other bones, for example, the pelvis;
          - Af. Nikitin was a merchant, and he traded along the Volga, on the banks of which even then many tribes of the Finno-Ugric and Turkic language groups lived. An experienced merchant could not help but know any languages ​​other than his native one, and it was quite natural to use them when communicating and transmitting information. At the beginning of the 19th century, a similar state of colloquial speech was called “a mixture of French and Nizhny Novgorod.”
          By the way, the ruling circles at certain stages used foreign languages ​​not only in Russia. In England, when it was an overseas colony of one of the vassals of the French king, the elite also used French;
          - to derive Russian temple culture from Central Asian traditions is simply a claim of originality, since anyone familiar with history at least at the 3rd grade level knows that this culture came to Rus' from Byzantium;
          - when you touched on gallogroups, you clearly confused the Kyrgyz with the Tajiks
          etc…
          I don’t have time to analyze in detail all the absurdities and distortions you made; I just want to note that they are not accidental, but deliberate, which reveals you to be a troll from the State Department. And this is another good reason not to enter into a discussion with you - it will be simply stupid.
          In addition, regarding your thesis about the absence of the Russian people in the Dnieper region, I recommend finding materials on the Zmiev Vals.
          And finally, the funniest thing is when you are absolutely biased and try to make the Russians look inferior to the Semites.
          you cannot be unfamiliar with the materials of the Bible. It clearly states what even the most advanced Semitic tribe – the Jews – were. This is a wild primitive tribe, wandering in the open air throughout the Sinai under the leadership of one of the Egyptian priests - Moses.
          As soon as the guide died, they showed themselves to the fullest. Not aimed at productive labor, they began to capture and plunder the cities of the Japhetic (in biblical terminology) peoples, showing unprecedented bloodthirstiness and cruelty, slaughtering the population up to and including infants. Moreover, their savagery even manifested itself in the fact that they destroyed all living things, including dogs and cats.
          What cultural achievements could the inhabitants of Jericho, who rebuilt this city and engaged in agriculture, viticulture, livestock breeding, and many crafts, learn from them?
          So your message regarding the educational function of advanced Semites is clearly biased.
          And finally, to give you the opportunity to have fun again, I’ll give you a comment that I wanted to post in response to your predecessor, who invited me to speak out about some words.

          According to the last word offered.
          Devil is a Russian word, compound.
          The first part – dia – is a distorted Old Russian “divo”, which means god. (In Latin - theo (theology - the science of the divine).
          Ox is one of the names of the ancient Russian god - the patron saint of both the main wealth of those years - livestock, and wealth as such in general - Veles.
          His image with a goat's head came to Rus' from the Semites along with Christianity. The fact is that when the Proto-Semites borrowed this god from the Proto-Russians. They did not have the skills to keep horses, cattle, or pigs. They could only herd goats and sheep. And the main leader in such herds is a goat. Therefore, the patron god of livestock got a goat's head from the Semites.
          By the way, this historical situation, when the proto-Semites, over the course of a long historical development, turned out to be able to keep only goats and sheep, led to the fact that their homeland - the Arabian Peninsula, which was previously a flourishing semi-steppe - turned into a desert. As you know: goats are animals that, when eating grass, do not pinch it, but tear it out by the roots. In addition, they mercilessly eat leaves and branches of bushes and trees. The land, devoid of grass under the hot southern sun, gradually turned into a scorched desert, which the descendants of the ancient shepherds of Arabia have today.
          1. +1
            14 January 2012 17: 07
            Well, you threw it out here wink
            Immediately on the subject of discussion, if we didn’t want to, we wouldn’t enter into winked wink smile but they still joined, and even considered my assumptions offensive, but I didn’t understand why it would be more logical for the “State Department” to accuse him of colluding with the Zionists, and if you look into it, consider him a hireling of the Al-Wahabi family wink
            Your anthropologist will apparently be of a very average level, winked Well, judge for yourself, you write about subraces, I write about the people and the nation. Let me explain. Even the most mediocre anthropologist can easily identify by the skeleton the Negroid in front of him or the mortal remains of a representative of the white race, by the shape and structure of the bones of the limbs at least. The more advanced will be happy to talk in Retzius’s terms about mesocephaly and deviations from it. But he will already have difficulties in determining which Nordic or Mediterranean subrace the dolichocephalic (elongated skull) belongs to, because both of them are predominantly dolichocephalic, although within the Mediterranean race there are also round-headed ones, Napoleon, for example, or my favorite actor Jacques Reno (Leon, etc. .). And since peoples and nations are often formed on the basis of several different racial types, the characteristics and phenotype are more than diverse. To make sure that Russians as a whole are not “blond beasts,” you don’t need to carry out mass measurements of skulls, you can just look out the window or walk down the street. Variety of types on and off the face. Even if we discard the pronounced representatives of the Caucasian type.

            and these are the average types of appearance for most Europeans

            http://rugiland.narod.ru/osnovi_antropologii/usrednennie_natsionalnie_kompozitsi

            onnie_portrati/

            About seven or eight years ago, a Komsomol member tried to draw up an average portrait of a Russian; it turned out to be brown-haired with a potato nose, and not at all blond with blue eyes, and no matter how the Mongol yoke would not work, genetics shows that among the population of the Russian plain, the genes inherent in representatives of the yellow race are not that would not dominate, but vanishingly small, and even in some regions of the Volga region do not exceed 5%, with the exception of Kalmykia, but the Kalmyks are Mongols in almost pure form. And there is, for example, such a curious people - All the foresters. Weakly expressed dolichicephals, but with burning brunettes and blue eyes. where will you take them? By the way, how to determine eye color by the shape of the skull? wink ??
            Do not rush to make categorical statements and you will not look......

            But let's continue
            Didn’t you understand your passage about Afanasy Niktin at all? This is precisely what I am writing about, that it is impossible to establish his nationality as unambiguously Great Russian. wink , which you actually confirm with your reasoning that many different peoples lived on the banks of the Volga, as for the name, they (and dad’s too - Nikita’s son, however) are never pagan, but biblical, the only thing they will tell us is that their the bearer was a Christian, but this name is rather an exception - take a reference book of names for the Middle Ages for Russia; all sorts of Rostislavs and Yaroslavs are exceptions, more often Akhmulko and little mice or even nicknames.
            and you completely missed the point about third grade wink In the third grade there is no history subject, it starts from the 5th grade. And Russian temple culture is very diverse. However, you are just distorting, I did not suggest that you compare the entire culture, but very specific temples, but if you insist, Hagia Sophia will be the first which I suggest you compare :wink
            As for the ruling circles, I absolutely agree with you; the ruling circles in Europe wrote about this; they were representatives of a different ethnic group in relation to the indigenous population, which they predominantly (in central Europe) slaughtered: For example, before the invasion of Julius Caesar, as it were, into the territory of modern France and Germany, a total of up to 20 million people lived there (a currently unidentified national (not racial, especially for you) affiliation, either Celts or someone else. After the invasion, about 4 million remained, of which 2,5 were male invaders who received the conquered lands as a reward Such a practice existed among the Romans. And the 1,5 million remaining locals were most likely women dispersed into the harems of the conquerors. Europe is sick with anti-Semitism on the one hand, and on the other hand, they are for the most part precisely their descendants, half-breeds, not by chance scientists define the genetic type of the majority of modern European men as descendants of Middle Eastern migrant farmers who allegedly came to Europe 5-6 thousand years ago and assimilated rare forest hunters. But most likely the migration was not peaceful and not 5-6 thousand years ago, but less than one and a half thousand years ago. The Arab invasion of the 8th-10th centuries was much larger than what modern textbooks say (Eurocentrism, however). Yes, and the term anti-Semitism, thanks to the light hand of I don’t know who, has now become entrenched as anti-Jewishness, which is not entirely true, even completely incorrect. Hence the arrogance of the European nobility, the desire for purity of blood (attitude to property, inheritance) with the simultaneous practice of the law of the first night. The relationship between the European nobility and the European peoples is antagonistic not only on social grounds but also on ethnic grounds.
            to be continued.
            1. -2
              14 January 2012 18: 29
              When I touched on the R1A1 halogroup, I had in mind specifically the Kyrgyz, whose presence of this halogroup is even slightly higher than that of the Russians :), although the Tajiks you suggested would also be suitable winked

              I understand why you don’t have time to analyze how you write “all the absurdities I made.” You just don’t like the conclusions (they are quite unusual) but you can’t refute them wink After all, if you repeat halva all the time, it does not become sweeter in your mouth. if you always tell your opponent that he is wrong, but do not give any arguments, then your opponent will not become wrong, no matter how much you want to believe it.
              As I already wrote above, I prefer to operate with unpleasant assumptions that are more similar to reality than with rosy nonsense.
              And the Semites were never voluntary enlighteners; on the contrary, they sought to maintain a monopoly on knowledge and technology for as long as possible, “abracadabra” is precisely from there - from Arab to Arab - in the sense of secret writing understandable only to initiates. And I may or may not like it, but writing itself, including phonetic writing, was invented by these same “damned” Semites - the Phoenicians-Philistines. The numbers are also Arabic (the passage about their Indian genesis has no realistic confirmation), Algebra and Alchemy and the chemistry that followed it are also, oddly enough, Arabic. I just don’t see anything prejudicial or annoying in this, unlike you. Probably because I do not suffer from Slavophilism, nor from Slavophobia, which you really want to attribute to me. Don't try, it won't work.
              What does this have to do with the wandering of Jews in the desert? among other Semites, by the way? or were the mentioned inhabitants of Jericho blacks? What exactly did you want to demonstrate with this, their lack of development? I'm talking about technological backwardness. So the Moiseevs are not developed, and the rest are very much developed, but then it is not clear how the undeveloped defeated the developed? or did all these related peoples have approximately the same level of technology?

              Devil, Devil, a really compound word (I’ll suggest two-part), Russian, has become such. But its first part is translated differently, as Father, Dio or Zio, hence the Greek Zeus-Zeus, or the Romanic Diocletian, and the Greek came from Aramaic (the Bible was originally written in it too, if you didn’t know), can you tell me which group of languages ​​Aromaic belongs to? winked You got the ox correctly, and in Africa vol-vaal-baal, also known as melik, melikh (the families of meklikhs or maliks), malkh, moloch, which is translated as lord, master, lord, lord, god, including, all from those Semitic dialects. Following you, I agree to consider the invention of cattle breeding a domestic priority if we place the homeland of the Russians in the Armenian and Turkish highlands, in the Middle East, in short. By the way, there is the homeland of the Semites, and by no means the Arabian Peninsula that you mentioned, Arabia is the homeland of the Bedouins, who are not very Arabs (study the sources.) But let’s return to the devil, this word can also be translated as the father of God, or God the father including wink

              And what does goats have to do with it?

              write more, I haven’t recovered yet, I’ll be happy to comment wink
  66. +4
    12 January 2012 20: 41
    The history of the territories in which present-day Russia is located is the most ancient in Eurasia. From here came the settlement of northern Europe. All this is well described by Fomenko. Artifacts also speak about this.
  67. +1
    12 January 2012 21: 43
    I have a normal attitude towards Fomenko and Nosovsky, as well as Valyansky with Kalyuzhny and Zhabinsky, and Albert Maksimov, and Postnikov and Sinelnikov, and of course with Morozov and Tabov and many others. First of all, in the sense that I read them all and try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I also happened to receive a so-called classical historical education, including along with military and economic education. I was lucky to learn the history of the ancient world from such a specialist as Irina Sergeevna Sventsitskaya, although this does not mean an automatic prolongation of her views on antiquity and early Christianity. The absence of the need to pursue a “historical” career made it possible to be freer in judgment. And I don’t see the need to choose, for ideological or any other reasons, which of my many ancient ancestors are Finno-Ugric (future Mordovians, Ves, Chuvash, Merya, Bulgars, Krivichi, Dregovichi, Radimichi, etc.), Iranian-speaking (Indo -Iranian, Alan, Scythian), Gothic (future Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, partially Belarusians and Ukrainians), Semitech (future Arabs-Obras, Ashkenazis, Karaites, Sephardim, etc.), or Khuritian (not established, I assume Khur = Rukh = Rug (rugy-red) = Rus) turned out to be the main one in the formation of the modern Russian ethnic group, its culture and language. Regardless of the quantitative and qualitative composition of ancestors, the Russian ethnos has taken shape, and its wealth and achievements, versatility and high adaptive qualities are largely determined by the large number and diversity of ancestors. The struggle for the purity of the species in this context looks ridiculous and unconvincing, just like attributing to the “NORTH” the place of origin of civilization. Simple, basic survival in northern conditions is much more expensive. There is much less resource that could be spent not on direct consumption for the sake of survival, but on development, therefore development is either slower or requires a different mechanism, for example, survival is collective, but development is through the socialization of the resource, its accumulation by the community, delegation with costs of personal rights. But this is, at best, compensatory development, which allows, by exerting the community’s strength, to respond to internal and external challenges, including from areas with more favorable conditions for survival. That is why Fomenko with his Rus' = Horde and “the origins of civilization in the Moscow region” is, to put it mildly, not convincing. But his works devoted to the problem of the Battle of Kulikovo or the authenticity of the Tale of Bygone Years, as well as many others, deserve the closest study.

    There is no merit in declaring Russia the birthplace of pink elephants. Yes, and there is no such need.
    But the need to confront external and internal challenges will always remain.
    1. +1
      13 January 2012 03: 36
      Lexagun
      They convincingly explained the attitude towards property as the engine of processes. Economics is a brutal incentive, especially in ancient times. And thank you for religion. Suddenly.
      I like Fomenko and Nosovsky precisely for the convincingness of many of their designs, which they offer instead of the most absurd ones.
  68. Barbarian
    +3
    13 January 2012 20: 34
    Excellent article!
  69. +6
    13 January 2012 21: 52
    No matter what they say, it is worth understanding one thing - Christianity is the religion of SLAVES (servant of God...), while Slavic paganism is the RELIGION OF ARTISTS, that is, people who created benefits for themselves with their labor, and did not expect mercy from someone unknown! !!
  70. zavesa01
    +1
    14 January 2012 11: 35
    Quote: Lexagun
    Simple, basic survival in northern conditions is much more expensive.

    But at the same time, it forces us to optimize work and look for new solutions. With abundance, the need for this disappears, because the land brings everything in abundance, the climate is mild, and accordingly you can rely on the will of fate. The problem of survival is not so acute.
    The model of the north you propose relates more to the conditions of the Far North, and not to the temperate climatic zones in which the Slavs lived. Forest is an excellent building material and fuel, fields rich in black soil and an abundance of rivers make farming and cattle breeding less problematic, swampy areas are rich in iron. Doesn't all this contribute to the development of any craft?
    1. 0
      14 January 2012 15: 28
      Dear zavesa01, the proposed model (not even by me) applies specifically to our conditions in the upper Volga region. For example, for central Poland: the period of agricultural work reaches 8 months, for Germany up to 10, even in relatively cold Sweden more than 7 per 20% of its territory, where the Swedes actually live (80% of the population lives in the coastal zone with a temperate climate). Here we have 4,5 and in some southern regions up to 6. In Europe the climate is much better than ours, unfortunately, the Gulf Stream. And this applies not only to the temperature regime, but also to precipitation, etc. Including the construction sector, energy and economics in general - they have an advantage with the exception of some resources. It is not enough to have 6 meters of black soil; you need to have time to exploit it. Accordingly, the satisfaction of basic, unconditional needs is solved there more easily than here, with lower costs and with a larger amount of surplus product. Accordingly, they can simply feed a larger number of people (more than 400 million population - without Belarus and Ukraine - against our about 100 in the European part of the country, including a larger number of “idlers”, those who are not directly involved in food production, but can create other material values, advance science, or simply sit back.

      In Europe you can survive alone, in our country you can only survive collectively, hence the difference in basic ideologies. They have Catholicism, in different versions, with its principles of individual freedom, we have the prevalence of the community and society in general over the individual as a whole - Orthodox conciliarity. Despite the fact that the basic religious model was initially the same, it was simply localized in relation to specific conditions of survival. The introduction of the Western model first destroys our ideology, therefore motivational parameters and then, as a consequence, the economy of survival, which can lead to the collapse of the state. Modern office plankton, precisely because of their separation from the collective model of survival and undereducation, behaves like an exemplary Western consumer (including protest). Well, we can’t all consume as much as they do and be able to answer external calls at the same time. Our compensatory response is accumulation through resource administration, delegation of authority, voluntary or not, allowing us to concentrate resources on critical areas, often greater than our wealthier opponents.
      But everything flows, everything changes, and the Gulf Stream has been successfully destroyed, quite likely for centuries (type in Yandex “Gulf Stream against the Fed”). And

      And on the problems of the influence of climate and geography on our economy, there are popular works, for example: Parsheva (I do not agree with him in everything) “Why Russia is not America” and “Why America is Advancing,” as well as numerous criticisms of these now unfairly hushed up books. For example, my favorite authors Valyansky and Kalyuzhny “Understand Russia with the Mind” (although it is even more pessimistic, like the subsequent “Russian Coaster”).

      Although everything is not so bad, of course, we have something that they cannot live without (unfortunately, not only with us), and therefore they are forced to share (like us), we just must always remember that it is often easier to take away than to produce or extract. Therefore, taking into account the difference in potentials, it becomes more clear why Europe regularly “visits us”, and not we visit it, unless on a return visit. Why is aggression beyond the borders generally unattractive for Russians, and the defense of the land as a whole is perceived as a sacred duty (there are some freaks in the family, of course)

      The problem of climate and geography will be solved if it is possible to create appropriate technologies or the climate itself changes for the better. Once upon a time, life was not easy without the discovery of agriculture, and without the development of metallurgy (an absolute fantasy in the Stone Age) and the discovery of metals, the development of central Europe was not possible.
      That's it, I still need to think about the comments to the crooked belly's remark wink
  71. +7
    15 January 2012 12: 14
    The article is excellent......even if there are some inaccuracies, the article should be understood as a call to the Russian people to wake up, remember that we are not untenmenshi, but a great nation......The rise of national self-awareness is inevitable, and as a result the revival of a great state - RUSSIA !!!
  72. +5
    15 January 2012 18: 47
    ...and thanks for that!
  73. +4
    16 January 2012 12: 51
    To Lexagun
    You wrote above that I don’t like the conclusions you draw. This is not entirely true. I don’t like the position from which you draw these conclusions.
    It is the same one with which Schletser and Co. wrote Russian history. Only there the Dark Russians were civilized by the German Kulturtraegers, and you assigned this role to the Semites.
    You also wrote about “the manic desire to find “greatness” at least in the ancestors.”
    Thus, without directly declaring, you deny the Russian people the greatness of the present (and we did not win the Second World War, and there was no Gagarin or other achievements) and the greatness of their ancestors. Of course, any good deed, even the veneration of ancestors, can be taken to the point of absurdity. But does this apply to Russians?
    While no one questions the right of the British to be proud of Queen Elizabeth (although what she did was protecting organized crime groups, albeit maritime ones), the French - Napoleon (who flooded the whole of Europe with streams of blood), the Americans - the Pilgrim Fathers who laid the foundations of genocide North American Indians, any attempts by Russians to find out their history are branded as shameful. Why? Maybe precisely because it was the ancestors of the Russians who stopped all these Napoleons and other Hitlers? I personally think so.
    I also don’t like the generally accepted tradition of cutting off the ancient history of the Russian people.
    Even on this site, I came across comments full of irony regarding the derivation of history (though - precisely and only - of Ukrainians) from the culture of Tripoli. Meanwhile, even the generally recognized Soviet academician B.N. Rybakov in his works unequivocally emphasized the continuity of the development of this culture to the present day. There was no change of cultures. And we all, and not just former Russians from present-day Ukraine, are its heirs.
    For some reason, when talking about the civilizations of China or India, we talk about their many-thousand-year history. We do not claim that the people who lived in these territories of the Qin era were completely different from those of the Xia or Shang eras. And although the Chinese as a single people have not yet formed (the spoken language of the northern Chinese is absolutely incomprehensible to the southern ones - they are united only by hieroglyphs), all scientists in the world talk about Chinese civilization as one. The same goes for India.
    About Rus' - every historical period is a new people, unlike the previous one. Although archaeological artifacts indisputably claim that there were no changes in civilizations.
    Even the hackneyed phrase “Russia is the homeland of elephants” is for you a reason to once again casually humiliate the Russians, but for me it is a reason to study this problem. If the Russians did not know elephants, why do the Russian language have so many derivatives from the name of this animal: loiter, lean, shutter, etc.
    I am especially interested in the original meaning of the word “barrier.” When and under what circumstances did it appear in the Russian language and what was its original meaning? Is the screen the advanced foot regiment behind the line of elephants, or is it just this line?
    As a language expert, can you say anything about this?
  74. -1
    16 January 2012 17: 37
    to the oblique
    “When it seems that you need to be baptized,” I’m talking about “....the position from which I draw conclusions...” wink
    I’ll definitely comment in the evening, well, closer to night smile
    When you write, you don’t need to attribute to me something that I didn’t say, don’t make assumptions for your interlocutor and it will become easier for you. laughing you won't find yourself in awkward situations
  75. 0
    17 January 2012 01: 41
    I was very interested in the elephant story wink
    “ibha” is an elephant in Sanskrit, there is no phonetic match, the investigator is India and, as it were, the Aryans (if Aryans are in India?!) have nothing to do with it, at all. In Hindi, the word “varana” is also sometimes found in the sense of elephant. also does not coincide, and it remains to be assumed that this animal (described as large and with a trunk) capable of BLACKING out the light as an animal has nothing to do with it. The ability to obscure, to be a fence, to block, is rather a feature not related to the animal; associations with the animal appeared later when it finally came to Rus'. , they called him an elephant for his ability to obscure, for his size. This is indirectly confirmed by the fact that this word is also used to refer to other large animals (elk elephant, for example, that is, elk)
    Here, for example, people also ask a similar question and do not find an answer, but the topic of the screening regiment does not even occur to them, apparently due to its phonetic secondary nature

    http://forum.lingvo.ru/actualthread.aspx?tid=110877

    But implicit associations regularly arise with the Hittite-Huritian texts (those Hurits again?) and the states of Urartu and Mitani, but those were quite familiar with elephants.
    It makes sense to study this issue, I’ll definitely report back

    but let’s return to the topic and essence of the contradictions that have arisen
    All flags come to visit us wink I mean, there’s elderberry in the garden and there’s a guy in Kyiv
    Well, please tell me where I wrote something about our “non-victory” in the Second World War? Or spoke badly about Gagarin? You have a strange associative series. Although the same Gagarin and the topic of Space in general will be an excellent illustration of some misconceptions. About twenty years ago, I bought my eldest, who had just started reading, a richly illustrated reference-encyclopedia on space exploration. And I was surprised to learn that, according to the publishing house (an American one, as I later found out after finding out), space exploration begins immediately with the landing on the Moon. Well, there is neither Gagarin nor a companion, in my youth I was even indignant, but as I cooled down I came to the conclusion that every sandpiper praises his swamp. The Americans didn’t lie even once, they kept silent, just like ours and everyone else did when describing the same space exploration (everything above 100 km above the surface). The first artificial object in space was the German V-2 by Wernher von Braun, which rose to an altitude of 192 km. it seems at 44. It’s unpleasant to give anything credit to the Nazis, but justice has nothing to do with politics.

    In the very first comment on Alexander’s article, I wrote that he, trying to reject the negative view of paganism, is trying to do this within the framework of a Eurocentric model. But it won’t work, because in this model the role of paganism has already been defined and it is negative, so “...kick an owl kick an owl kick a stump...” does not matter, and if we abandon this very Eurocentric model (and chronological scale accompanying it, it quickly becomes clear that paganism is primary Christianity (Regularly - for example, the temple of St. Demetrius in Bulgaria on the site of the ancient temple of Demeter) simply without Christ. The son of God, he appears later, but God already exists before that? Isn’t it true? ? And in Islam, Allah (Ilyahu) exists long before the Prophet Muhammad? Isn’t it so? Among the Jews, Yahweh is generally identical to BAALU (In the Pentateuch, a character with a double name), this primary god is never monotheistic, but also angry and partial.
    First the pantheon.
    This is the primary system of universal management, where the gods and their dioceses are rather specialized ministries - trade, fertility, blacksmithing, etc. And when this system, constantly growing, became poorly managed, it was replaced by a more advanced system of universal management, through a universal tax - tithe, The former gods were naturally declared (to make the process easier for) enemies (Pharaoh can also be translated as Lucifer, the bringer of light, luminous, almost Prometheus however wink ), the first system is familiar to us as the myths of ancient Greece; they tried to change it to a completely monotheistic one, for example, Arianism. The followers of Arian-Aryan (maybe this is where the Aryans come from?) recognized the same Christ as just a creation of God, but in no way a god, however, bifingered. And the first were the Bogoslavians, the glorifiers, the Slavs (Elins in the Greek translation), who are our main spreaders of Elinism there? Alexander the Great? Or is Iskander two-horned? And why, by the way, two-horned? Bearing the sign of the bull of Baal? (there were no epaulettes before - this replaced them) So what god did the Elins glorify? The Golden Calf - Baal? elsewhere), but both declared that they were simply glorifying a relic. On the outskirts of the empire, the relic was preserved (In the same Moravia), and later appeared independent (this is how the term catholics-Catholics is translated) Charles the Great, who carried out a split in the unified empire, needed his pocket patriarch and marching pontiff-maximus with a miter on his head for legitimization, and after a while becomes the Pope of Rome (Rome-Rom-Raim, from Semitic fortified place on the top of a hill, hence the temple and the Kremlin). It’s just that the Slavs were not originally an ethnic group (you’re looking in the wrong place), but were a religious group, a teaching, hence the prevalence of common characteristics, elements of traditions, and speech rudiments among various peoples. Like the followers of Arius - Could be of different ethnic groups. And with repeated cultivation-subordination, “New” rituals were superimposed on the primary beliefs, but neither one nor the other were autochontic, that is, local, these were different stages of the same development model, always introduced. Therefore, the set of characters for all Abrahamic religions is identical, they argue only about which of the characters has greater significance, In Islam, he became the prophet Muhammad, In Christianity, Christ, etc.. and here and there Saint Maryam - or simply Mary superimposed on the Semitic Kybella -Ishtar (Ki-bela, ka-bala mother of God - Mother of God)m I don’t pretend to be the ultimate truth, but it seems to me that the sequence was exactly like this. But as I said, this does not fit within the framework of traditional chronology, and there is no global conspiracy, it’s just that each ruler writes history for himself, just like the Pope, who in the 16th century ordered the numerologist and cabalist Scaliger a convenient option for him - the pope - to date world events, I just I don’t understand why we continue to follow this illiterate writing.

    The principle of primogeniture is so important for you (well, so that Russians or Slavs would turn out to be no younger than, for example, Jews, this is precisely the basic Semitic law determining the right of inheritance. Do you understand now why I say that this model must be abandoned? Reasoning within the framework of this paradigm, you will never go beyond its limits, however, it is your right.

    A few notes about other antiquities. There is no and there was no ancient China; physically there are no Chinese documents in nature dating back to before the 17th century. When, by order of the Chinese emperor, all documents ever created in the Middle Kingdom were collected in the palace and corrected or destroyed.
    All Russian Chronicles go back to the Radzivilov list (contain its fragments) discovered (presented) to Peter the Great in 1696 (if memory serves) But his friend Alexei Mikhailovich gave an order to Mr. clerk Lyzlov for another story (Scythian history of Lyzlov in 2 -x volumes, which never saw the light of day in its entirety). and it is based (published under the editorship of your beloved Miller 70 years later, about which Tatishchev, who was familiar with the original from Lyzlov, wrote ... but the news is a bad list, corrected ...) The key point is that Lyzlov’s history is based on one set of documents, completely differently, and the Tale of Bygone Years on another, they do not correlate. But there is no certainty that the Scythian history is true. It was written at the request of a politician. winked and then also ruled by a German. If you think that this is only in domestic historiography, then you are mistaken, no less confusion is going on among the French (who formed as a nation under the guns of Richelieu), and among the Germans, where Old German is so similar to Yiddish that it becomes indecent to speak about the German Aryans. And among the Spaniards in the “Reconquista” who conquered Spain from the Moors, but the Arab Moors were so similar to them
    And there is no point in participating in this race as a prioritya.


    Sorry, I woke up my wife, now I’m going to be.......
  76. -1
    17 January 2012 02: 30
    Varang - Varyag, enemy, enemy
    Enemy - translated from Serbian - killer
    what am I talking about? love
    1. 0
      18 January 2012 12: 56
      In his work "Nestor. Russian Chronicles", published in German and translated by Yazykov into Russian in 1809-1810, Schletser, rearranging and arbitrarily throwing out words (From the Ipatiev list) concluded that Varangianand - the people of the Germanic tribe, who lived along the shores of the Baltic and German seas, and that the Russians belong to the same tribe and can mean the Swedes. Schletser’s conclusions began to be vigorously repeated by his compatriots, and then by our historians, without understanding that they were selling the glory of their homeland and its great past. This inertia and reluctance to understand the numerous sources that directly speak about the Slavs of the ancient Rus are amazing. However, we are accustomed to adopting everything entirely from the West and believing it in everything, especially the Germans.
      Of our later historians, only Ilovaisky rebelled against Schlozerism, i.e. of German origin Russov, in his work “Investigations about the beginning of Rus'” in 1882, but still attributed entirely Varangianov to the Normans, which, as we will see below, shouldn't have done.

      The main occupation of the Novgorod and Primorye Russes was trade with neighboring countries. Asian goods were delivered by the Volga and rivers flowing into the Gulf of Finland. To protect trade caravans from attacks by robbers, the Russians had numerous and well-armed river and sea hired guards, called “Varyags” from the Slavic word variti - to anticipate, warn, and varya - (according to Kirillov) - travel: varya - to sail on the waters.
      1. 0
        18 January 2012 15: 18
        In my opinion, the Serbian version (enemy-killer) is more accurate in semantic meaning, because the main task of a soldier, a fighter, is murder, war, and not prevention. The second point is that in the same Russian chronicles and numerous continuations of Radzivilov’s list, which should primarily concern affairs within the country (if we understand the country as North-Eastern Rus' or even Kiev primarily), disproportionately great importance is attached to Balkan affairs with an emphasis on events in Bulgaria , Serbia and the Roman Empire. The third point is that the Church Slavonic language (written) is Old Serbian, and it was precisely for its formalization that the Papal (Pontifex) workers Cyril and Methodius (they served not the Patriarch, but the Pontiff) could have been involved. Moreover, for example, the Croats (ethnically the same Serbs, but Catholics are relatively late) continued to use the Glagolitic alphabet as a state script until the 18th century, and even now one could observe graffiti inscriptions during the Balkan conflict, for example, I saw it in Vukovary. The Croatian Glagolitic differs from the Russian Glagolitic in its graphic design. Russian is rounded, Croatian is quadratic, closer to Arabic script, such as Armenian or Georgian script. Croats, Serbs and Bulgarians, three Finno-Ugric tribes out of five (tribal union of Utugurs and Kutugurs) under the pressure of invaders (Obrov-Avars-Arabs) who retreated to the Balkans from the area of ​​the Meottian swamp (Sea of ​​Azov) under the leadership of Khan Croat (Croatia-Croatia) Two others rose upstream of the Don where one crossed the Volga in the area of ​​​​the current Volgodonsk canal and settled in the middle reaches, and the second moved to the upper reaches of the Don and the upper reaches of the Volga-Oka basin, those who moved to the middle Volga founded the Volga Bulgaria (since the 16th century, Tatarstan-Tartaria ) The latter is characterized by a quick dependence on the Arabs, a complete change of the ruling elite to the Arab (for 300 years the Tatar nobility took only Arab women as wives, the principle is to marry their own.) Later, this nobility (Murzas) with the fall of Kazan moves to Moscow where receives the equivalent titles of prince-counts, etc. All these Malyuta Skuratovs, Simeon Bekbulatovich Godunovs and many other Tatars come to Moscow from the Volga region, 75% of the Russian nobility is of Tatar origin, but even there they are not local and have Arab roots. all these Arakcheevs, Apraksins and Saltykovs. Even the founder of the Naryshkin family (the mother of Peter the first was just Naryshkin) Tatar Naryshko (albeit Crimean) who moved from Crimea to Moscow in the 16th century, the names of his descendants are also so interesting: Isaac, Moses (at least look on Wikipedia, even in university textbooks). The emergence of the Norman theory under Peter was caused by the need to distance himself from the old boyar (more correctly, balyarins, as they said until the beginning of the 19th century) nobility. Especially in connection with doubts about the legality of Peter’s accession to the throne (both within the country and by external partners), the Austrian emperor even refused to accept him after a three-month wait for an audience, hence the trip to Europe incognito, so as not to run into trouble again. Peter is the first to make a final break with the Volga nobility and reorient economic ties directly to the Baltic. (We must remember that until the 17th century inclusive, the economic center of Rus' was the upper and middle Volga region, Kazan, Yaroslavl, Kostroma, Tver, etc. partly Moscow as the center of overland trade in the European direction. The largest fair (a sort of stock exchange of that time) was Makaryevskaya on the Volga. ) That is why under Peter there is a change in the ideological justification. The option (Lyzlov) that his father Alexey Mikhailovich prepared, as it were, no longer suits Peter, which was taken advantage of by Russia’s neighbors who suffered defeat after defeat from the strange at first glance “axis” Istanbul-Stockholm. (you just need to remember that Charles 12 spent his childhood at the court of the Sultan of the Grand Porte and it was no coincidence). The Swedes take advantage of their technological advantage over the Poles, Danes and Germans. The best ore allowed the Swedes to begin manufacturing thin-walled field guns, that is, capable of moving across the battlefield, equipped with grapeshot, which were placed in the center of foot battalions (That's why build a square) and when approaching the enemy, they allowed them to fire crushing volleys. Over the course of several years of war in northern Europe, the Swedes burned more than 20 settlements. The statehood of many northern European states is being questioned; an ally is urgently needed, at least against the Swedes' ally Turkey. wink ) demonstrate, as it were, a list (the tale of bygone years) found in the possessions of the Polish magnate Count Radziwill (in the future, all chronicles, even if they are actually more ancient, will be brought into line with this document)

        The basis for this hastily put together craft was most likely real documents, because it is difficult to deceive contemporaries who still remember something from other sources, so you can’t lie much. But the Norman theory was planted on Peter. like some others. Peter is recruited into his allies, at least against the Turks at first. And the sluggish war with the Turks enters an active phase. Further, Peter’s incompetent leadership leads to his capture and the main condition for his release will not be a ransom for “silverware” But “restoration” (according to the Ottomans successors of the Romans) vassalage over Muscovy. Not a popular topic in Russian historiography. And the Germans and Poles did not expect that the “original” would fall into the hands of the Russians, they didn’t even finish it, they made a copy for Peter and buried it in their archives, and here Rumyantsev will take over you 50 years later and only a direct ban on the publication of the Tale of Bygone Years will be stopped by the synod some hotheads intended to publish the newly acquired “shrine”. The motivation for the ban is very instructive, as if publishing the chronicle “as is” will lead to considerable confusion of minds in the opinion of the Holy Synod. Thus, Russian historiography is based on documents of dubious origin and, most importantly, recent ones. The Poles, through third parties (not the non-state level) with hints (the chronicle which they can challenge) make it clear that Russia can lay claim (they never agreed to this before) to Kyiv.
        1. 0
          18 January 2012 16: 41
          http://topwar.ru/10273-normanskaya-teoriya-k-voprosu-o-proishozhdenii-varyagov.h
          tml
          I guess it's a sequel.
          1. 0
            18 January 2012 21: 22
            wow wink
            already commented there winked
            I really don't want to have to write it all over again wink
  77. peshehod_patriot
    +6
    18 January 2012 10: 18
    Good article ! Personally, it gave me a feeling of love for my homeland)))
  78. +2
    20 January 2012 01: 07
    A lot of letters... Aren't Varangians Slavs?
  79. +7
    20 January 2012 13: 28
    Thank you for the article ! I agree and support completely. I'm tired of the stories that the Slavs are illiterate savages... Even after reading the official versions (authorized) of history and thinking about it, you find inconsistencies. And when opponents of unknown origin begin foaming at the mouth to prove the moronity of the Slavs (including from television screens), you understand that the truth is somewhere nearby, and it is hindering them. It’s a pity that many people firmly believe that we are slaves by origin, I stopped convincing them, if you want to be a slave, be one... The moronic people could not give birth to genius commanders, scientists (I won’t list names), or develop such territories (until now We are the largest, but where are the other Great Empires?). Our language was distorted and cruelly curtailed, but even in this disfigured state it is great and powerful (you must agree, A.S. Pushkin confidently proved this). You can accuse me of mental illness, but I think that someone is very afraid that the Slavs will remember their greatness (I agree, it sounds pretentious, but I am sure that I am right).
    1. +6
      23 January 2012 14: 00
      Slavyan, cheer up. Everything lies on the surface.
      Just as children in a kindergarten can distinguish toys by shape, size, color and other properties, so fully grown people, without burying themselves in myriads of beeches, can systematize and qualify civilizations, understanding their natural essences.
      If we consider civilizations according to one of the most important criteria - their attitude towards slavery / slavery (one does not exist without the other), then we can clearly see here the fundamental difference between Russian civilization and others.
      If cruel conquerors came to Russia from time immemorial on all sides to conquer and turn Russian people into slaves, or at least grab civilians on the frontier to sell them in slave markets, the Russians never waged wars of conquest with the seizure of slaves or the conversion of the vanquished peoples into slavery.
      Wherever the Russians came - as a rule - in response to raids or conquests, they did not introduce slavery anywhere, but, on the contrary, abolished it. This is evidence that Russian civilization is a civilization of free and freedom-loving people.
      The rest of the civilization - mostly slave-slave. The same western one that screams so much about freedoms, historically - slave-slaveholding. It was formed at the expense of the conquest of Slavic lands in Europe and the conversion of local residents into slaves; and organized the slave trade of the Russian people, using for this purpose a pseudo-state robber formation - the Crimean Khanate; and the slave trade of the times of the New History - in the New World and by the Indians and Blacks from Africa - is also on its conscience.
      This is a psychotype of behavior at the subconscious level: either I am the master, and you are my slave, or vice versa. That is why freedom-loving Europeans disciplinedly laid down under Napoleon, and Hitler, and others, and the Russians had to crush them - supposedly with a “slave” soul.
      And all the talk about European freedoms is for external use, well, and for soothing one's own conscience (after all, some of the Europeans still have its rudiments).
      These differences explain, by the way, such a historical peculiarity that Russians invent a lot (create is a property of a free person), but little is introduced into life (a society of free people is not sufficiently organized: if you don’t peck a roasted rooster, then the inventor must make a lot of effort all in the utility of the invention). Slave-owning civilizations in this regard are much more rigidly organized (totalitarian). It is enough for any slave owner to stumble upon something (a finished invention) in order to order slaves (even if they are personally formally free, but are forced to earn money for survival) to check this in practice.
      There is one more nuance: misunderstanding between Russians and different neighbors, like the Baltic Finn. It seems (from the Russian point of view) they should be grateful that the Russians came, saved them from extermination and assimilation — death as a people. From the fate of the same Prussians. And they hate Russian. Why? It's simple. According to their understanding: if you won, you must be the master. And Russians behave with them not as with slaves, but as equals. Conclusion: it means they are weak in the head, if they do not understand how the winner should behave. And it is very disappointing when such fools always win, breaking the current worldview for centuries.
      That's how we live.
      1. +4
        24 January 2012 14: 37
        Absolutely agree. It’s nice to discover sober-minded like-minded people who are able to calmly justify their position. Let’s hope that there will be more and more of us, not us, so maybe children raised in our spirit will change something for the better...
      2. sams
        +3
        25 January 2012 13: 11
        Good for you!
        Competently stated.
      3. Dimedroll
        +5
        26 January 2012 20: 48
        Competently, briefly and clearly, I absolutely agree!

        PS But they gave us a little hint about the story...
        “A people without history, like a child without parents, starts all over again. From it you can fashion everything you need, put into it your worldview, your way of thinking. In this way, entire nations can be depersonalized; first, they are deprived of history and traditions, and then we form them in our own image and likeness.” (“Catechism of the Jew,” Tel Aviv, 1958)
        As a rule, there is no smoke without fire....
        1. +2
          28 January 2012 14: 06
          This is exactly what is happening, and they act clearly according to what is written, word for word, very diligent guys, they try.... And the worst thing happens to them...
  80. Ivan043
    +4
    26 January 2012 23: 20
    Who is interested, read Alekseev Sergei Trofimovich “Russia the World and We”, his worldview and the rest is prose, history, etc. Readable in one go. A man of about 40 years has been dealing with these issues. Atheists may not accept those who think that science explains everything. There is also Yuri Nikitin, but I like Alekseev better.
    Those who have not been taught to believe by their parents will not come to faith without a “miracle.”
    My father told me in childhood - before Christianity, the Russians believed that in a clan, fathers, children, grandchildren are a chain hanging over the abyss, where each is a link - the dead are behind, the unborn are ahead, and if you do not live in truth, your link is rotten - the clan will break, you are all If you fail, the whole family is lost. I don’t know where I got this from. Most of our grandfathers don’t know what their names were, the slogan is to take life well. Caucasians, Kazakhs, Kalmyks up to the 7th generation know everyone, but now 95% of our relatives do not know Russians. Falcon of Perun, do you know what his great-great-grandfather’s name was and what he did?

    Who is interested, read Alekseev Sergei Trofimovich “Russia the World and We”, his worldview and the rest is prose, history, etc. Readable in one go. A man of about 40 years has been dealing with these issues. Atheists may not accept those who think that science explains everything. There is also Yuri Nikitin, but I like Alekseev better.
    Those who have not been taught to believe by their parents will not come to faith without a “miracle.”
    My father told me in childhood - before Christianity, the Russians believed that in a clan, fathers, children, grandchildren are a chain hanging over the abyss, where each is a link - the dead are behind, the unborn are ahead, and if you do not live in truth, your link is rotten - the clan will break, you are all If you fail, the whole family is lost. I don’t know where I got this from. Most of our grandfathers don’t know what their names were, the slogan is to take life well. Caucasians, Kazakhs, Kalmyks up to the 7th generation know everyone, but now 95% of our relatives do not know Russians. Falcon of Perun, do you know what his great-great-grandfather’s name was and what he did?
  81. bob
    bob
    +3
    29 January 2012 18: 19
    read the novel-essay by Vladimir Chivilikhin “Memory”. you will all be very interested in “Memory” - the result of many years of literary and historical “excavations” of the author in the thousand-year past of Rus' and Russia, kindly illuminating little-known pages...
    1. +2
      31 January 2012 19: 49
      I have this work of Chivilikhin in both the book and the novel-newspaper when it was first published. Bowing my head to both V. Chivilikhin and V. Kozhinov (History of Russia. Modern view), I recommend as the most profound the works of Yu.D. Petukhov “History of the Rus”, “Roads of the Gods”, “Normans. Rus of the North”, a joint work with N.I. Vasilyeva "Rus of Great Scythia".
  82. andrklimanov
    +7
    1 February 2012 18: 37
    These are the people who vote against the article, who are they? I read a lot of positive articles on the site, about weapons and about patriotism, etc., etc., and the bulk of the people who are not indifferent to the past and future of our country vote FOR and still there will be 2-3 for ...... who will vote AGAINST. maybe they should change the country? since things are so bad here
  83. Rodver
    +2
    28 February 2012 16: 58
    We will always remember and be proud of our Russian ancestors! Let your enemies know this and shut up.
  84. 0
    28 November 2020 00: 41
    Oooh, a gathering of idiots... good

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