Military Review

20 years on sight

31
The century of steam and electricity reported unprecedented progress to many areas, one of which was small weapon. At the beginning of the century, soldiers marched on each other with the same muzzle-loading muskets as their great-great-great-grandfathers had done a hundred years earlier.

The musketeer of the Napoleonic era and the shooter of the Anglo-Boer or Russian-Japanese war led to an abyss into which the mass introduction of rifled barrels with Minier bullets, the transition from silicon to capsules, the appearance of unitary cartridges, smokeless powder and, finally, reduced caliber and multiply charged.

It is not surprising that at the beginning of the 20th century, and several decades later, designers and the military seemed completely logical and natural that the next step in weapons progress — the transition from manual to automatic reloading — would be about to take place. Fortunately, various samples of self-charging were born like mushrooms after the rain and all that remained was to bring some of them to mind, more precisely, to match the characteristics requested by the customer.

Not that browning

According to some information, the former military minister V. A. Sukhomlinov called the expected rearmament with a self-loading rifle as one of the reasons for the lack of ammunition stocks. Documents of the then Main Artillery Directorate confirm that this transition was considered to be a practically solved question. We had only to choose - what to go. The rearmament of the "three-line" was estimated at 156 million rubles. To understand the scale: assistance to victims of crop failure, and more simply, starving people in the same years made up a little more than 160 million rubles (7,2% of budget expenditures for 1891 – 1892).

Meanwhile, at the end of the 19th century, one of the world's first self-loading rifles, the Madsen-Rasmussen system, was delivered to Russia for testing. By 1906, the number of both foreign and domestic samples had already reached a level when it was necessary to create a special commission for their consideration. For six years of existence, she reviewed two dozen samples of sixteen different systems. The greatest interest was caused by the rifles of the Swede Shegren and the Italian Chelman. Tellingly, both of them were developed for the new Swedish 6,5-mm cartridge. And as a result, having shown good results with native ammunition, they could not digest the Russian.

The next candidates were rifles of domestic designers - Fedorov and Tokarev. True, the full cycle of tests passed only the sample of the first.

One of the candidates was the Mosin-Browning system. Note that the stories about the visit of the famous American designer to Russia - fiction. In reality, an employee of the Belgian national factory in Herstal, Karl Browning, was unlikely to come to American John, even a distant relative, with our military.

Patron, take off your hat

On the whole, although the commission’s work did not yield the expected result in the form of a rifle ready for adoption, it finally confirmed the conclusions of V. G. Fedorov: one of the main problems along the way is the Russian rifle cartridge 7,62х54R. Although it was recently commissioned, it was already inferior to the next generation — a smaller caliber, with better ballistics and a ring groove on the sleeve instead of a protruding cap-edge. The transition to a new cartridge would greatly simplify the task for designers and rifles, and machine guns. Fedorov was a lot of work to create an optimal cartridge.

20 years on sight


The outbreak of world war ceased the work of both the commission and the designers, since initially it was believed that the fighting would be short and the weapons specialists were sent to the active army. So, V. F. Tokarev commanded a Cossack squadron for about a year and a half before being recalled to the Sestroretsky Arms Factory.

As a result, the only model who managed to make war in the Russian army was Fedorov's “automatic”, for lack of his patron adapted for the Japanese 6,5-mm - good, they began to be supplied in large quantities to Russia along with the same origin as rifles. The first "automata" were tested on the Romanian front, but their production was already engaged in a new power - the Soviet. In the 20-ies at the Kovrov plant several thousand "machine guns" were produced, which came into service with the special companies of the Red Army.

A new stage in the development of automatic rifles began in 1924, the decision of the commission Budyonny. However, at that moment it was actually about experimental work - the then economic situation in the USSR reliably buried the idea of ​​re-equipping a new rifle, much less a transition to a new cartridge.

Big bride

Tokarev, Degtyarev, Fedorov, Konovalov and Kolesnikov rifles were presented at the first 1926 competition of the year. The last two were flawed and were removed from the test. The test with a large number of shots (up to 10 000) was sustained only by the Degtyarev rifle.

The series of contests continued intermittently until the end of 1932, when, according to the results of tests of the three most advanced models - Degtyarev, Simonov and Tokarev - the second automatic rifle was adopted first for production and then for service as ABC-36.

However, in 1937, the military stated: “It was not possible to get rid of the shortcomings inherent in the Simonov system.” Competitions for self-charging had to continue.

This time the winner was the Tokarev system. Its first version, SVT-38, was soon replaced by the upgraded SVT-40. By the beginning of the Great Patriotic Army had received more than a million semi-automatic rifles. The enemy noticed and appreciated the effect of their presence on the battlefield, especially in bordering divisions equipped with priority weapons on a priority basis.

However, the fate of the SVT was by no means rosy. The farther, the more from the front were complaints about the low reliability of self-charging. Considering that they also had a high cost, comparable to a light machine gun, they decided to significantly reduce production. In production, only AVT remained in limited numbers, due to the lack of regular Degtyarev machine guns, used as hand-made ersatz.

Why did this happen? In search of an answer for a start, you can look overseas. In addition to the USSR, only the United States adopted a self-loading rifle, the M1 Garand, as the main infantry weapon. Its first prototype appeared in 1929 year, it was adopted in 1936-m, several months later than ABC-36 in the USSR. However, even without a war, a stream of complaints about new weapons from the US Army soon began, and the problem turned out to be so serious that the congressional commission dealt with it. To correct the identified deficiencies, it was necessary to rework the system and, as a result, to rework previously released rifles. The upgraded rifle went off the conveyor only in 1941-m.

Separately, we note that the "Garand" was created for the .30-06 Springfield cartridge without a border, which in itself removed a significant part of the problems with reliability. It can also be said that the possibilities of American production were higher than in the USSR — in terms of the machine park, the range of materials, the skills of workers, and so on. Nevertheless, even in the USA, the path from the first prototype to a reliable serial rifle took 12 for years and was by no means easy.

Petty soldier time

FV Tokarev provided for testing the first samples of his new scheme in December 1934 of the year. As noted above, the Tokarev rifle was accepted into service in the 1938, that is, it took less than four years to complete an experimental test. The situation could still be corrected by the results of the exploitation of the first rifles in the troops - on the transition from SVT-38 to SVT-40. But here in full growth another problem arose. In SVT-38, the weight of the rifle with a bayonet and magazine was 4,9 kilograms.

Meanwhile, even in 1941, the Soviet military indicated in the requirements that the rifle's weight is full with a bayonet, ankle strap and a wearing belt should be no more than four kilograms.

This requirement also arose not from scratch. During the first half of the 20th century, the population of Russia / USSR experienced a world war, the civil war that followed, and a significant part of the famine of 20's and 30's. The average height of 20-born men at the beginning was less than 165 centimeters - these years stand out on the anthropologists' charts as a characteristic failure. As a result, two years were spent by the designer not to increase the reliability of the rifle, but to reduce the weight. The task was fulfilled, but at the price of a critical weakening of the reserves of strength and reliability of weapons. Meanwhile, already in the first months of the war there was a sharp drop in the quality of both the production and the training of the draft contingent. It can be assumed that the “reliable” Garand, being made in the cold workshop by the hands of yesterday’s schoolchild made of “what was found in stock” steel, and then hitting the draftee from a distant aul, could hardly have performed well in the winter near Moscow 1941 .

To honor Tokarev, he did not stop work on the rifle. And by 1944, most of the design flaws, as well as weak manufacturing sites, were eliminated. But by this time the topic of self-loading rifles was no longer any priority. On the agenda was the issue of a machine for an intermediate cartridge.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/31860
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 20 August 2016 08: 02
    +19
    It can be assumed that the “reliable” “Garand”, being made in the cold shop by the hands of yesterday’s schoolchild from steel of the sort “that was found in the warehouse” and then getting to the draftee from a distant aul, was unlikely to show himself well in the Moscow region snows in the winter of 1941 .... Yes, it was, thank you ...
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 20 August 2016 08: 46
      +12
      Quote: parusnik
      It can be assumed that the “reliable” “Garand”, being made in the cold shop by the hands of yesterday’s schoolchild from steel of the sort “that was found in the warehouse” and then getting to the draftee from a distant aul, was unlikely to show himself well in the Moscow region snows in the winter of 1941 .... Yes, it was, thank you ...

      I completely agree with this formulation of the question. I know from the father of my friend, who, alas, has long been absent, that the border guards had very few complaints about the SVT, but we must not forget that the level of training of personnel in the border troops was much higher than in the army.
  2. kugelblitz
    kugelblitz 20 August 2016 08: 06
    +7
    It is a pity that at one time they did not switch to 6,5 mm caliber. The Italians and the Japanese had easier rifles, and Fedorov’s assault rifle shows that it greatly facilitated the creation of powerful automatic weapons for infantry. You can carry more ammunition, the same light machine guns would become easier and more reliable. Hypothetically, they could then not switch to an intermediate cartridge at all.

    Heard, they say there are trends and research in terms of reviving this caliber, all sorts of 5,45 and 5,56 are still weak in terms of stability of the trajectory, 7,62 are heavy. But 6,5 perfectly combines the balance of mass, returns and stability.

    And this 6,5 mm would fit the Simonovskaya and Tokarevskaya rifles awesomely, in the end, as sniper rifles were inferior to the "bolt", but a simple infantryman literally made life easier. And simple wartime submachine guns would have had it by the middle of the war.
    1. kjuby
      kjuby 20 August 2016 09: 07
      +10
      Quote: kugelblitz
      It is a pity that at one time they did not switch to 6,5 mm caliber.

      Well yes. The whole world is one way. And couch generals, to another.
      Quote: kugelblitz
      Heard, they say there are trends and research in terms of the revival of this caliber

      That's just on this kind of forums and go.
      Quote: kugelblitz
      all sorts of 5,45 and 5,56 are still weak in terms of stability of the trajectory, 7,62 are heavy

      Explore how classic bullet cartridges differ from small ones. It seems that you don't even know the elementary things on this topic. But you "reason" like this:
      Quote: kugelblitz
      But 6,5 perfectly combines the balance of mass, returns and stability.

      Or that:
      Quote: kugelblitz
      And this 6,5 mm would fit the Simonovskaya and Tokarevskaya rifles awesomely, in the end, as sniper rifles were inferior to the "bolt", but a simple infantryman literally made life easier. And simple wartime submachine guns would have had it by the middle of the war.
      1. kugelblitz
        kugelblitz 20 August 2016 09: 42
        +6
        Quote: kjuby
        Explore how classic bullet cartridges differ from small ones.


        I know the differences from the 22LR, imagine. lol
        Quote: kjuby
        That's just on this kind of forums and go


        Read about 6.5x38 Grendel, which was developed by "forum users" Arne Brennan and Bill Alexander. And the fact is especially indicative

        Snipers will also be interested in the fact that the 6.5 Grendel provides good resistance to wind drift. With a side wind 4,5 m / s, the 130 Gran JLK blows down 53 cm 600 yards, while the 105 Gran Scenar smogs 60 cm.


        topwar.ru/11498-patron-65x38-grendel

        Quote: kjuby
        The whole world is one way. And couch generals, to another.


        From you politota and Russophobia carries a mile away. Onolitega next smerdyakova as always harsh and merciless. wassat
        1. kjuby
          kjuby 20 August 2016 10: 12
          +1
          Quote: kugelblitz
          I know the differences from 22LR, imagine

          I'm not sure if you allow yourself arguments like "all sorts of 5,45 and 5,56 are still rather weak in terms of trajectory stability, 7,62 are heavy. But 6,5 ideally combines the balance of mass, recoil and stability."
          Quote: kugelblitz
          Read about 6.5x38 Grendel, which was developed by "forum users" Arne Brennan and Bill Alexander

          I’m not interested in reading this topic. I myself can write a lot of things on this subject.
          Quote: kugelblitz
          topwar.ru/11498-patron-65x38-grendel

          Murzilki leave to children. The incompetent Hryundeleman even example Barrett did not teach anything. And apparently he will not teach anything.
          Quote: kugelblitz
          Snipers will also be interested in the fact

          Sniper weapons are not combined arms. Snipers, they use crossbows in places. Suggest switching to crossbows?
          Quote: kugelblitz
          From you politota and Russophobia carries a mile away.

          Russophobia? Not at all. Russophobia for a mile away from the idiots. After all, they claim that the Bolsheviks armed the army with excellent weapons, but the Red Army dots did not know how to use it.
          I just convincingly show and prove that these Bolsheviks delivered shitty weapons to the army. And just the Red Army men were not at all idiots.
          Quote: kugelblitz
          Onolitega next smerdyakova as always harsh and merciless

          I understand that you have no clear arguments.
  3. kjuby
    kjuby 20 August 2016 09: 02
    +1
    Quote: Andrey Ulanov
    It was only necessary to choose - what to switch to. The rearmament of the "three-line" was estimated at 156 million rubles. To understand the scope: help for those suffering from crop failure, or, more simply, for those starving in those years amounted to a little more than 160 million rubles

    But the Bolsheviks rearmed the army with different shit joyfully and repeatedly. And what? Money is not mine. And the country is rich. The people, apparently already glossed with fat.
    Quote: Andrey Ulanov
    but finally confirmed the conclusions of V. G. Fedorov: one of the main problems on this path is the Russian rifle cartridge 7,62x54R

    It would not be worth referring to it. Not that person.
    A similar British cartridge did not bother anyone in Britain until the mid-20th century.
    Quote: Andrey Ulanov
    smaller caliber, with better ballistics

    This is what you wrote nonsense. The WHOLE WORLD refused such "promising patrons" even BEFORE WW2. The last were the Italians and the Japanese.
    Quote: Andrey Ulanov
    Fedorov did a great job to create the optimal cartridge.

    Are you sure that the work was carried out, and not an imitation of activity by a charlatan?
    Quote: Andrey Ulanov
    As a result, the only model that managed to fight in the Russian army was Fedorov's “automatic”, for the lack of its own cartridge adapted for the Japanese 6,5 mm

    It was not these samples that managed to fight, but those that were on the converted Mauser cartridge (Gen1). Moreover, it suddenly became clear that the "Fedorov assault rifle" was ineffective when conducting automatic fire. It suddenly became clear that when conducting automatic fire, the weapon heats up. Therefore, all Gen1 Fedorov assault rifles were sent to aviation. Where they were cooled by streams of incoming air.
    And the "genius Fedorov" made the "Fedorov assault rifle" Gen2. On a weak cartridge Arisaka. "Automatic" has ceased to overheat. But it was ballistic only for shooting at sparrows. For which he received, in the end, a knee in the ass.
    This is so, the real story of the "Fedorov machine" in brief.
    Quote: Andrey Ulanov
    Fortunately, they began to be supplied in large quantities to Russia along with rifles of the same origin.

    Probably it would be worth writing that Fedorov organized the supply of this sludge (Arisaka rifle) to Russia. Chose, so to speak, "the best sample in the world."
    Quote: Andrey Ulanov
    A large number of shots (up to 10) was checked only by the Degtyarev rifle.

    Later it was converted into DP-27. The Bolsheviks pompously called it "machine gun". But the reality was more modest, according to the performance characteristics it was a heavy automatic rifle on a bipod. Only with a stupid, overly capacious store. There was no "anti-duress" protection, like the American analogue of BAR, to be more specific. And because of this, the weight was excessive.
    True, there were still jambs with the overall performance of the product. But now is not about that.
    1. kjuby
      kjuby 20 August 2016 09: 02
      -5
      Quote: Andrey Ulanov
      the second automatic rifle was adopted first for production, and then for service as the ABC-36.

      Conceptually stupid product. What ABC-36, what ABT-40. Automatic rifles had the right to exist only in the form of a DP-27 (better than a BAR or at least a DPM, of course).
      Quote: Andrey Ulanov
      By the beginning of World War II, the army received more than a million self-loading rifles.

      Already, the Red Army and the SVT-40 quickly enough refused. And fools praise her all. Well, SVT was not good for the army. Maybe for hunting, I don’t know. And for the army was not good. Such a design was unsuccessful, flimsy.
      Quote: Ulanov
      it was adopted in 1936, a few months later than the ABC-36 in the USSR

      For Urikalok this is the most important thing. Yes, calm down already, the self-loading of Mondragon in a normal caliber was adopted as early as 1900.
      Quote: Ulanov
      Separately, we note that the "Garand" was created under the .30-06 Springfield cartridge without a hem, which in itself removed a significant part of the problems with reliability.

      This can be figuratively called "bullshit bullshit".
      Quote: Ulanov
      At SVT-38, the weight of the rifle with a bayonet and a magazine was 4,9 kilograms.
      Meanwhile, even in 1941, the Soviet military indicated in the requirements that the rifle's weight is full with a bayonet, ankle strap and a wearing belt should be no more than four kilograms.

      And here I completely agree with the author. Would the SVT-40 be a little heavier, would have had a receiver a little more powerful, perhaps it would have been good. At least Degtyarev solved most of the problems with the DP-27 with a massive receiver.
      Well, and the fact that Tokarev received a deliberately unrealizable (voluntaristic) task, so look at the history of the USSR. There, half of the tasks were like that. After all, who led the country? Mostly people are uneducated. They handed out tasks.
      Quote: Ulanov
      the subsequent Civil, and a significant part - the famine of the 20s and 30s. The average growth of men born in the early 20s was less than 165 centimeters - these years stand out in characteristic anthropologists' charts as a characteristic failure.

      Failure is a characteristic feature of the Bolsheviks. He is present everywhere with them.
      Quote: Ulanov
      It can be assumed that the “reliable” “Garand”,

      Soviet and American products cannot be directly compared. Another culture of design and production. Another technological level. The Soviet is better to compare with the Soviet.
      Quote: Ulanov
      But by this time the topic of self-loading rifles was no longer any priority. On the agenda was the question of an automatic machine for an intermediate cartridge.

      Yes, illiterate Bolsheviks came up with a new nonsense. Across the world, of course. It was called the AK-47.
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 20 August 2016 10: 19
        +10
        Corporal, stop cursing me, especially about the Bolsheviks. They, in due time, wiped their nose in every direction.
        1. kjuby
          kjuby 20 August 2016 11: 06
          -1
          Quote: bistrov.
          Corporal

          You’ll call your grandfather so. General sofa.
          Quote: bistrov.
          especially about the Bolsheviks. They, in due time, wiped their nose in every direction.

          Apparently this refers to the number of victims among the population.
      2. demiurg
        demiurg 20 August 2016 10: 21
        +2
        And what is wrong with the AK-47?
        1. kjuby
          kjuby 20 August 2016 11: 04
          -1
          Quote: demiurg
          And what is wrong with the AK-47?

          I’m not a parrot, and I’ll not repeat it for the 101st time.
          But quite briefly, nowhere and in no one in the world did such a miracle exist as the main infantry weapon. And it’s not just that. And even the USSR itself in the 70s, realizing its mistake, gave him a knee in the ass. And this is also not just.
          1. Massik
            Massik 20 August 2016 21: 09
            +9
            Hello again, a guest from parallel reality. How many times have you been blocked, you still come back, since we are all foolish about you, then what pulls you here so much? About wound ballistics will not? laughing
    2. Disorder
      Disorder 21 August 2016 20: 51
      +3
      It was not these samples that managed to fight, but those that were on the converted Mauser cartridge (Gen1). Moreover, it suddenly became clear that the "Fedorov assault rifle" was ineffective when conducting automatic fire. It suddenly became clear that when conducting automatic fire, the weapon heats up. Therefore, all Gen1 Fedorov assault rifles were sent to aviation. Where they were cooled by streams of incoming air.
      And the "genius Fedorov" made the "Fedorov assault rifle" Gen2. On a weak cartridge Arisaka. "Automatic" has ceased to overheat. But it was ballistic only for shooting at sparrows. For which he received, in the end, a knee in the ass.
      This is so, the real story of the "Fedorov machine" in brief.


      This is where such an "interesting" story about the alteration under the patron of the enemy comes from?
      Self-loading rifles and submachine guns (this is what the Fedorov assault rifle was originally called) were assembled from parts made before the war. The self-loading rifle in 7.62 mm caliber remained almost unchanged, and the rifle chambered for the 6.5-mm Fedorov cartridge was modified for the Arisaka cartridge, with the addition of a magazine of increased capacity and the possibility of automatic fire.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  4. pimen
    pimen 20 August 2016 09: 07
    +5
    “But here another problem arose in full growth. The SVT-38 rifle weight with a bayonet and a magazine was 4,9 kilograms.
    Meanwhile, even in 1941, the Soviet military indicated in the requirements that the full weight of the rifle with a bayonet, foot and carrying strap should not exceed four kilograms. "
    strange, of course, logic, given that the PCA weighed more than 5 kg (and without any bayonet)
    1. moskowit
      moskowit 20 August 2016 09: 23
      +1
      Absolutely incorrect comparison. These models lie in various niches in their technical specifications ...
      1. pimen
        pimen 20 August 2016 09: 53
        +2
        quite correct, given the copyright message about the weight that had to be carried by a mass ordinary fighter
    2. Stas57
      Stas57 20 August 2016 09: 52
      +1
      And the mosquito is heavier
  5. moskowit
    moskowit 20 August 2016 09: 18
    +3
    Even in my youth I read the excellent book by German Nagaev "Russian gunsmiths". This book was then the only available source about the history of the creation of small arms of the 20th century ... Tokarev worked on a self-loading rifle even before the revolution ...
  6. Stas57
    Stas57 20 August 2016 09: 55
    +2
    I have SVT40- this is still a thing for the pro-army, as rightly pointed out by u.parusnik for a poorly trained soldier it is complicated.
    Well in the right hands, this is a very powerful and reliable weapon.
    1. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 23 August 2016 10: 03
      +3
      Once I read the memoirs of a front-line soldier. So he said that he went through the whole war with SVT and did not change it for any other weapon, although there was an opportunity. "It's just that you need to take care of her in a timely manner" - the whole meaning of his words about the "unreliability" of SVT
  7. VDV1985
    VDV1985 20 August 2016 10: 15
    +10
    “The Red Army has already given up on the SVT-40 rather quickly. And everyone praises it. Well, the SVT was not suitable for the army. Maybe for hunting, I don’t know. But it was not suitable for the army. The design was unsuccessful, flimsy.
    Quote: Ulanov
    it was adopted in 1936, a few months later than the ABC-36 in the USSR

    This is the most important thing for uryakalok. "
    You read and wonder - they already know everything. And the fact that the Bolsheviks spent the people's money for their own pleasure, and then. that DP is not a machine gun ... For them, probably, a machine gun can only be considered a BAR - a bandurin under 6 kg with a 20-charge magazine. And on SVT - in general, mascara light. These would-be experts do not even realize that after the war, the Belgians licked the "light" inside and out, and in a finely tuned form gave the entire NATO unit a FAL rifle (FN FAL, for the Britons - L1) ...
    1. kjuby
      kjuby 20 August 2016 11: 00
      +2
      Quote: VDV1985
      that DP is not a machine gun ...

      And what about a machine gun? Ask how the TTX of a machine gun differs from the TTX of an automatic rifle. Very surprised, but not at all the capacity of the store. And according to TTX DP / DPM refers EXACTLY to automatic rifles. In this case, to heavy and because of this on the bipod.
      Quote: VDV1985
      For them, probably only a BAR can be considered a machine gun - a bandurin under 6 kg with a 20-load store.

      I don’t know, I wrote that this is an automatic rifle. And Americans think so, BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). Browning automatic rifle.
      Quote: VDV1985
      that after the war, the Belgians licked the "sveta" inside and out, and in a finely tuned form gave the entire NATO unit a FAL rifle (FN FAL, for the Britons - L1) ...

      Now it’s called, if I’m not mistaken, rzhupodstol. Not often, such a joke manages to subtract somewhere. Thank.
      1. mmaxx
        mmaxx 21 August 2016 10: 35
        +2
        Well, here, in general, for giblets, not 1 in 1, but close to this.
        Greetings to the same Sturmgevere 44. Anything more than TT and some kind of Browning there.
      2. VDV1985
        VDV1985 24 August 2016 20: 28
        +5
        Read more books and see more blueprints, and not just watch Discovery. The likes of you are yelling that the AK is licked off the Sturmgever43, despite the fact that the only thing in common is the automatic gas venting mechanism and immediately tear the throat for Western "designers", even when the coincidence is almost complete. ..
        Didn't you, login, wrote about the fact that the AK in 7,62 caliber is a dead end? And at the same time, do you forget that while the Vietcong were shooting amers from a "dead-end" Kalash, outstanding Americans were wandering through the jungle with a 14-meter M60 (and this is a full-fledged rifle cartridge) and instead of the handbrakes used a really dead-end MXNUMX and a reliable BAR?
  8. Strashila
    Strashila 21 August 2016 13: 00
    +7
    In fact, the rifle was ahead of time ... but the problems, the marines had no problems, the border guards had no problems, the Germans thought they were fortunate enough to receive her as a trophy. And the infantry ... that the infantry, the level of education ... everything was decided ... it was a mechanism requiring understanding, and there were problems with this.
    1. ty60
      ty60 22 August 2016 20: 36
      +4
      Not only understanding, but timely proper care. Lubricants are appropriate for the season. Developed logistics. Kalashnikov is renowned for his INSUFFICIENCY in the staff due to significant manufacturing tolerances, which is why there is no special sniper. But it is reliable and trouble-free.
  9. mmaxx
    mmaxx 21 August 2016 16: 35
    +4
    No luck SVT and all. The war has begun. And there were a lot of problems. Exploitation by unskilled people. They began to buy American gunpowder. He had a different energy and on these cartridges SVT stably failed. Under the three-line cartridge, it was made to the limit. Dirt held not like everything else. Rather, she demanded care that they could not give her. And most importantly: it cost as many as 15 mosinos. It cost a little less than a tar. Look for exact numbers too lazy. Rifle infantry didn’t shoot so much. At the same time, the PPD was burned. It was also a price like a machine gun. Not for that war were all circumstances.
    And on normal cartridges at its base, the same FN FAL at its base is still on hand.
    1. Michael_Zverev
      Michael_Zverev 23 August 2016 14: 20
      +2
      SVT was more expensive than DP.
      Purchase prices in 1936: Nagan 50 p., Mosin rifle 90 p., DP-27 787 p., PPD-34 1350 p., SVT mass series began to be purchased at 880 rubles.
  10. Fidel
    Fidel 21 August 2016 22: 30
    +2
    SVT is an excellent device. But not there and not in order to where he was pushed. Not for infantry. There you need something more indestructible. But for the "specialists" - the very thing.
  11. Igory2006
    Igory2006 23 August 2016 19: 43
    +3
    Small arms amaze me. soldier
  12. Chazoy
    Chazoy 25 August 2016 06: 46
    +4
    I agree with those who write sensibly positively about CBT. For those who consider this weapon "not very good, unreliable ..." go to the hunting store, hold it in your hands, and kiss. I did so (I managed to hold on to the 1944 Sveta), a wonderful product, balanced, lightweight, powerful cartridge, you don't need to be an engineer to disassemble and assemble (I didn't feel anything difficult) ... In general, SVT is a great weapon.
  13. fennekRUS
    fennekRUS 28 August 2016 14: 46
    +1
    Another fan of "hryundel" believer that all evil comes from the welt on the cartridge? I wonder why such cool 6.5 caliber cartridges have not made their way for a whole century, unlike the same 338lm and 50bmg?
  14. bunta
    bunta 26 September 2016 20: 39
    +3
    In fact, the rifle was ahead of time ... but the problems, the marines had no problems, the border guards had no problems, the Germans thought they were fortunate enough to receive her as a trophy. And the infantry ... that the infantry, the level of education ...


    How you hesitated with your cliches. What does education have to do with it? Who will clean the weapon more often - a lawyer who hasn’t learned enough and whose mother cooks porridge and pants, or a guy from a plow who hasn’t gone to bed since childhood until the cow has cleared the dung?
    And infantry is not a level of education. This is weeks in the rain in the mud of trenches, in the heat and cold in the open, or in earthen burrows. This is a day of walking marches on champing mud. The desire to eat and sleep is the only motivation for any movement. Be at least three times a professor, and you prefer to sleep an extra five minutes than to disassemble and clean the rifle.
  15. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 29 September 2016 14: 44
    +2
    The genius of V. G. Fedorov, who insisted on switching to a 6.5 mm cartridge (like an arisak), has not yet been fully realized.

    And the fact that modern research leads designers to a caliber of 6,5 mm is no coincidence.
    This is the optimal caliber. The cartridge of the appropriate caliber provides sufficient power - respectively, range and accuracy, high muzzle energy and flatness of the trajectory of the bullet, a large portable stock.

    Operating the AKM - I lacked accuracy at medium distances and the strong recoil significantly knocked down the single fire sight. After AKM - AK-74 caused delight - just a sports rifle, a good flat trajectory, the accuracy of single fire improved significantly, but the low-power cartridge did not allow solving many problems that could be solved by the AKM. And I would like a machine gun with a flat trajectory from the AK-74 and more power (for example, RPKM, and even with optics). Perhaps the 6,5 mm cartridge would be the "golden mean" that was so lacking.
  16. Oleg Karlash
    Oleg Karlash 30 September 2016 19: 36
    +1
    This rifle, as they say, was very suffering for the fighters. But the experience of its combat use was very useful in the development of the legendary SCS, and AK too. This is the value of this product.
  17. mroy
    mroy 13 October 2016 13: 09
    +1
    Quote: bunta
    Be at least three times a professor, and you prefer to sleep an extra five minutes than to disassemble and clean the rifle.

    And here it all depends on the understanding of the need for cleaning weapons, which should be vaccinated to personnel by sergeants and foremen.
    A good foreman will make a soldier from a lawyer.
  18. DesToeR
    DesToeR 24 October 2016 00: 19
    0
    Quote: Chazoy
    I agree with those who write sensibly positively about CBT. For those who consider this weapon "not very good, unreliable ..." go to the hunting store, hold it in your hands, and kiss.

    And what will you see in the hunting store? Maybe the grooves in the chamber so that the propellant gases "help" the extraction of the liner? Or a multi-position regulator for adjusting the amount of gases discharged from the barrel to release the bolt? SVT-38 and SVT-40 had a rather "dirty" system of work, as a result of which the rifle had to be thoroughly cleaned constantly. It is not the education of the soldier that matters - there is no higher mathematics there, but the difficulties of military operation and the permanent adjustment of the system depending on weather conditions. Maybe someone knows: in the competition, in parallel with the Tokarev rifle, there was a Simonov rifle, is it true that the SKS is an alteration from that system chambered for 7,62x39?