Professor Klesov responds to attacks against Russian history

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Professor Klesov responds to attacks against Russian historyProfessor Florin Curta (Florin Curta) from the University of Florida published in the Starohrvatska prosvjeta (2015) magazine an article on the 17 pages entitled “Four questions for those who still believe in prehistoric Slavs and other fairy tales.”
There is frank Slavophobia, the culmination of which is that researchers of the early Slavs and Slavic ethnogenesis "stick their ugly head out when nationalism gains strength and begins to persecute scientists."

Learn the style of outspoken enemies, if not frank enemies?

Moving on to the second question: “If the ancestral home of the Slavs, while they were in a state of undifferentiated ethnicity, was in Eastern Europe, with the most archaic Slavic river names, why are there separate archaeological cultures in that region?”.

Who understood what? I - no, I did not understand the meaning of the question. For those who wish, I bring the question in the original language: “If you’re not happy?” cultures in that region? ”.

The situation is not saved even by a bad grammar of the question, the past tense and the present tense are mixed there, which in English is a gross error, and archaeological cultures are given in the present tense, although they were clearly in the past. Well, okay, even if corrected, the question is still not clear.

In short, the author apparently asks - if the ancestral homeland of the Slavs was in Eastern Europe, where the names of the rivers are Old Slavic, then why is there not one archaeological culture, but several? What you can ask counter - and why there should be only one culture?

But the author is worse off. Firstly, the “ancestral home of the Slavs” as such does not and cannot be. In this, the author has a fundamental misunderstanding of reality. If we start from the culture of corded ceramics (although it can be done earlier), then it turned into Fatyanovskaya, which passed into Tshinetsi, then into Lusatika, that into Pomerania, then into the culture of under-flats burials, Przeworskaya, Zarubinetsky, and so on, with the exit already new era. And all, mind you, in Eastern Europe, and all the different archaeological cultures. So why should there be only one - what, from Germany to the Urals?

And about the river, VV answered long ago. Sedov in his book "The Origin and Early story Slavs ”-“ Until recently, the erroneous position was predominant in the scientific literature, according to which the areas of Slavic hydronymic concentration or areas with purely Slavic water names were considered to be the area of ​​Slavic initial residence. In fact, the opposite picture is observed ... ”, namely, that this turns out to be regions of migrations, including recent migrations.

From our side, we add that, indeed, when the same observations can be interpreted as either ancient or recent, the value of such interpretations is small. In addition, as noted by V.V. Sedov, "Pre-Slavic hydronimics is not yet amenable to stratigraphic segmentation."

Nevertheless, based on the observations of T. Lehr-Splavinsky and S. Rospond regarding water names in the space between the Oder and the Dnieper and their allocation of the primary hydronymic zone (Basin of the Oder and the Vistula) and the zone with derivative word-formation forms (Middle Dnieper region), V. AT. Sedov believes that "the interfluve of the Vistula and the Oder should be regarded as a more ancient Slavic range."

Note that "as a more ancient", and not "ancestral homeland." The interfluve of the Vistula and the Oder, and the western side of the Oder, are the territories of the Lusatian and Pomorian cultures, indeed, of the early Slavic. And Florin Kurt asks - why are there several cultures? Yes, it so happened, archaeologists are so divided, apparently, not without reason.

But again - where is the "tale of prehistoric Slavs" here? If prehistoric times are unwritten, then yes, prehistoric, the writing of the Puszka, and before that, the Tshinec and Fatyanovo culture is unknown. It seems that Professor Kurt does not like the Slavs, so far only this one explanation is suitable.

Here the author of labor complains that there are many ambiguities with the Slavic cultures of the end of the last era - the beginning of our era. He does not understand where the Zarubynets culture (dated between 3 century BC - 1 century AD) disappeared, which historians consider Proto-Slavonic “by ethnicity and language”, and which the Sarmatians allegedly destroyed mentions the 200-year-old gap between Zarubintsy and Kiev cultures (the latter dates from 3 to 4 centuries AD), and quotes that the latter is considered as “Slavic Veneti”.

Further, the author mentions that for at least a century separates the Kiev culture from the subsequent Prague culture, attributable to the early Slavs. The author does not understand where the Slavs left after the 1 century AD, and why they returned two centuries later to the place where their ancestors lived, and how they turned into Slavs of Prague culture, he also does not understand why migration of Slavs to Lower Danube and the Balkans did not leave traces of Prague culture on the territory of modern Romania, which, as he quotes, is called "the supposed region of Slavic culture."

The author does not understand what language was spoken by the inhabitants of Zarubinetsky and Kiev cultures between 3 century BC. and 3 century AD, because there is not the slightest trace of this language and there are no written sources left, and therefore it is impossible to attribute those ethnicities to any ethnicity.

There are no traces of material signs of Zarubintsy, Kiev and Prague cultures on their intended advancement in the southern and south-western directions of the supposed migration of Slavs to the Danube during the Roman Empire. Instead, all available information points to the Slavs moving in the opposite direction, to the north and northeast (the quotation above about the author of the “tales about prehistoric Slavs” refers to the only researcher - Pole A. Pletersky, 1990-s).

So, as F. Kurt concludes, the early Slavs could not be a real ethnos, because they had too many archaeological cultures that also could not refer to ants or squares, according to written sources, and therefore there is no way to describe the history of prehistoric Slavs between the late Iron Age and the early Middle Ages, it simply does not exist.

For me, who is involved in DNA genealogy, the viciousness of the “logic” of F. Kurt, a professor of history and archeology, is quite obvious. In general, where there is “logic” in the sense of “criticism,” there is no discovery expected. The “logic” performed by the critic connects the two points with a straight line, but in the real world it is often not the case.

Kurt proceeds from the fact that at the transition of the old era to the new one, there must be one and only one Slavic ethnos, and one and only one archaeological culture must correspond to it. If there are two, then they must be strictly related to one another by material attributes, and be within the clear boundaries of one “Slavic ethnos”. And archeology shows that, it turns out, there were different parts that were not tied up by early material features, and which moved separately from one another - one north and north-east, the other south-west, on the Danube.

It must be said that attempts to combine these two different parts are very common in the modern historical and linguistic sciences.

HE. Trubachev wrote in his work “Ethnogenesis and culture of the most ancient Slavs. Linguistic studies ":" What caused the invasion of the Slavs in the VI. to Danube lands and further south? Union with the Avars? The weakness of Rome and Constantinople? Or did the impetus for them give steady legends about ancient living along the Danube? Maybe then all this famous Danube-Balkan migration of Slavs will acquire the meaning of reconquest, a reverse conquest, however, due to the favorable situation and the Slavs' keen temper, somewhat overwhelmed ... Other than the memory of past life on the Danube, for example, old songs about the Danube among the Eastern Slavs - peoples, we note, in the memory of written history never on the Danube (scil. - Middle Danube) who did not live in the early medieval Balkan campaigns that did not go ... ".


As you can see, we have a clear contradiction. The historian claims, with reference to historical works, that there were no migrations of Slavs from the Dnieper to the Danube, archeology shows no material signs for that. The linguist, on the contrary, claims that the Slavs invaded the Danube lands and further south, although he further reports that the Eastern Slavs did not go to the Balkans and the Danube to remember the written history.

At the same time, the historian concludes that since the Slavs were different, disconnected, and the material connections between them are not traceable, then there was no single Slavic ethnos, which means there were no ancient Slavs at all, they are a “fairy tale”.

And here comes the DNA genealogy that has found the answer to this “conandrum”, or a complex riddle with conflicting input data or considerations. The fact is that the Eastern Slavs and the southern Slavs were both at first divided, these are different historical families, with different histories. Eastern Slavs - haplogroup R1a, southern, on the Danube - haplogroup I2a. The carriers of the haplogroup I2a were almost completely exterminated, beginning in the middle of the 3rd millennium BC, during the settlement of Europe with erbins, the carriers of the haplogroup R1b.

They began to revive, after passing through the “bottleneck of the population,” only at the end of the last era, beginning in 2 century BC. Prior to that, the whole of the early Slavic world, starting from Fatyanovo culture, through the Luditsky, Pomorsky culture, the sub-Skles burials, Przeworskaya, Zarubynetsky, had no relation to the Danube carriers of the I2a haplogroup, there were no last at all, as there were no early Slavs of the R1a haplogroup on the Duna

Starting from the end of the old era, the carriers of the haplogroup I2a began to grow, and the growth apparently was rapid. At a certain historical period of time, the carriers of the haplogroup I2a joined the Slavic community, switched to the Slavic languages, and became southern Slavs. Currently, the proportion of haplogroup I2a of 71% from the Bosnian Croats, 56% in Bosnia-Herzegovina, 33% Serbs, 30% in Montenegrin, 26% of the Romanians from 11% to 21% in Russian, Belarusians and Ukrainians, but only 1.5% in Germany and Sweden, 3% in France and Belgium, and not in Finland.

Therefore, at the end of the last era, the beginning of our era, the “common ethnicity” of the eastern and southern Slavs could not have happened, but this does not at all mean that there were no ancient Slavs, that there was no history of them. The Slavs in the “prehistoric period”, that is, according to the concepts of Florin Kurt earlier than 2 century AD, were only R1a haplogroups, they were not Danube, they were eastern in origin, with roots in Fatyanovo culture with subsequent shift to the west and north west, to the Baltics, in the Vyslo-Oder region and to the west, to the territory of the Lusatian culture.

The historical sciences under the influence of the Tale of Bygone Years, uncritically perceived, created ideas about the “Danube ancestral homeland of the Slavs”, essentially distorting the concept of the Slavic ethnogenesis.

In fact, the history of the haplogroup R1a in the Balkans, the Adriatic, in Asia Minor and the Apennines was much more ancient and more complex and more dramatic. Part of the carriers of the haplogroup R1a-Z280 from Fatyanovo culture, namely its Eastern Carpathian branch, moved to the Balkans, then to Asia Minor, to Paphlagonia (the southern side of the Black Sea) and Lydia, and after the fall of Troy at the end of the 2nd millennium BC. er were exported under the name of Enetes or Veneti to the Apennines and Illyria, in the northern part of the Adriatic.

Calling them Slavs, or Veneti, or in some other way is a question for specialists in ethnogenesis, although, to admit, their concepts and methods of work do not inspire confidence in the least. Rather, you can refer to the "Tale of Bygone Years" as presented by V.N. Tatishchev, according to the text “even the essence of the Slavs, lived near Syria and Paflagoniya”, and further - “For many times he came, the Slavs along the Danube and in the mountains moved in…”.

There are relatively few descendants of those carriers of the R1a haplogroup left in the Balkans - 15% in Bosnia-Herzegovina, 16% among Bosnians, 24% among Croats, 14% among Macedonians, 8% among Montenegrins, 16% among Serbs, mostly this Macedonians, 1% among Montenegrins, 280% among Serbs; , a bit of West Slavic and Central European subclade R1a-M458. But dominates there, as shown above, the South Slavic haplogroup I2a.

Ignorance of the history of the Slavs for Professor Kurt is excusable, he is not familiar with DNA genealogy. But this division of the early Slavs into different types, each with its own history, was revealed by DNA genealogy.

Worse, Professor Kurt is not only not familiar with DNA genealogy, but does not want to be familiar with it. After reading his article about “four questions and fairy tales about the early history of the Slavs,” I wrote him a letter and said that DNA fairy genealogy was answered to his fairy tales, and I can explain if he is interested. He replied that he was not interested because he was an expert in ethnic history and did not believe in DNA genealogy, which supposedly "can solve any problem related to ethnicity, which is a cultural construct, not a biological one."

He continued that in his conviction, "DNA-based research does not differ in methodology from measurements of the skulls, carried out in the 19 century, to identify races."

And such a person not only undertakes to study the history of the ancient Slavs, and with the initial ill will and even hostility, taken with outdated concepts, muddy ideas about the "ethnicity" of the ancient Slavs, but also shows an elementary reluctance to depart from outdated ideas, learn new things, and What is characteristic, accepts that which is unknown to him and the historical sciences at their stage, for “the absence of the history of the Slavs”.

Thus, the second question “criticism” has nothing to do with the history of the ancient Slavs.
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  1. +26
    August 18 2016
    Well, Anatoly Alekseevich, you gave a good answer. Anyone who does not want to notice the facts will sooner or later be disgraced. Not only in DNA can one find answers to the antiquity of the Slavs, but also in chronographs. That's just notice, often do not want it.
    1. -18
      August 18 2016
      Quote: Wend
      Not only in DNA can one find answers to the antiquity of the Slavs, but also in chronographs. That's just notice, often do not want it.

      And where does the facts, DNA and chronographs? After such an article, they will give him a chair. This is a FACT!
      1. +11
        August 18 2016
        It would be nice to read a translation of Professor Florin Curta’s article from the University of Florida. Maybe someone will translate a thread on InnoSMI.
        In general, it turns out that the task of all the Naglo-Saxons and their owners, the Jewish alligarchs, is to spread rot everything "Russian". No matter where. In politics, culture, sports, science.
        1. 0
          August 18 2016
          Why go overseas? Our fans of Fomenko, Rezun, Zadornov and other nonsense will give him a hundred points odds still.
          1. +9
            August 18 2016
            they have reasons for this, I have read any mythology since childhood and have read a lot, from all sorts of Mahabharat to Edd, the Avesta and the Indian Vedas (not all). and do not believe it, they all say that life originated in the North.
            and I trust mythology more than modern historians, who for ONE CENTURY changed their view of history three times.
            and what then to speak for millennia.
          2. +15
            August 18 2016
            And what does Zadornov have to do with Rezun? By the way, the official history could not give a single meaningful answer to either Fomenko or Levashev. The only answer is "This cannot be, because it cannot be" ......
            Meanwhile, we, at school, were thoroughly forced to study the History of ancient Egypt, ancient Greece, Rome, but the history of ancient Russia is actually gone, so superficially casual
            1. 0
              August 19 2016
              Quote: max2215
              By the way, the official history could not give a single meaningful answer to either Fomenko or Levashev.


              This is because you didn’t read them, you have enough noodles on the ears from these freaks - the main thing for you is that your ancestors like flew in from Orion and built the Egyptian pyramids according to Levashov, and there you can turn off the brain! laughing
              So Ukrainians not far from you went with their seas dug ...
            2. +1
              August 19 2016
              You're lying, sir! The official history gave so many answers to Fomenko that he revised his propaganda views four times. Look at least the RAS report for 2000.
            3. 0
              August 22 2016
              But ours, from a history with high scientific degrees, were able to teleport the Mongols from the 19th century to the 13th, before that, even in an ordinary madhouse, no one had any imagination, only Napoleons had enough ..
          3. +2
            August 18 2016
            And what does Zadornov have to do with Rezun? By the way, the official history could not give a single meaningful answer to either Fomenko or Levashev. The only answer is "This cannot be, because it cannot be" ......
            Meanwhile, we, at school, were thoroughly forced to study the History of ancient Egypt, ancient Greece, Rome, but the history of ancient Russia is actually gone, so superficially casual
          4. +3
            August 18 2016
            And then why Zadornova sailed to these storytellers?
          5. 0
            August 19 2016
            You do not have enough Putin on the list, Margaret Thatcher and the bun.
            Sour with fluffy? You, apparently, a hutspaste Jew, if you use such vile approaches?
            And your flag is super-shod - the flag of the main enemy of the Russian people. Accordingly, the replicas are perverted and miserable.
        2. cap
          +1
          August 18 2016
          Quote: Cossack Ermak
          It would be nice to read a translation of Professor Florin Curta’s article from the University of Florida. Maybe someone will translate a thread on InnoSMI.
          In general, it turns out that the task of all the Naglo-Saxons and their owners, the Jewish alligarchs, is to spread rot everything "Russian". No matter where. In politics, culture, sports, science.


          +++ Just removed from the language.
        3. +2
          August 18 2016
          But how they rush about with their Stonehenge. In Russia --- well, there are stones standing in a circle. They stand in Siberia, on the Kola Peninsula, in the Crimea, and Arkaim is a unique city !! We do not know how to submit our story! Have brazenly Saxons pimple on zh.pe jumped up-Miracle-wonderful !! The best pimple in the world! Unique ... We do not know how to present our glory-correctly present our glory .. So we admire acne on jo.e at the naglosaksaks ...
          1. +1
            August 18 2016
            not that we do not know how, is prohibited. if you find something like that, you still have to defend it, because there can come a group of people who will all look, study and destroy everything. and then you’ll find records of this.
          2. 0
            August 19 2016
            Unfortunately, you won’t make a tourist chip from Arkaim
          3. 0
            August 22 2016
            ..there has recently been an article indicating who manufactured this complex 100 years ago .. And who was the customer ..
      2. +5
        August 18 2016
        Quote: tiredwithall
        And where does the facts, DNA and chronographs? After such an article, they will give him a chair. This is a FACT!

        I’ll tell you exactly in which country he will be hanged on the chest and will be called an academician laughing
        And this institute or the Academy, will be located in Kuev wassat
    2. +23
      August 18 2016
      Kolesov is right. As for even Siberia, the Russians have always been here, which can not be said about Cyril and Methodius (which only spoiled our alphabet for the Greeks). And the cultures are different, yes. So what? We with neighboring tribes did not quarrel and did not impose our ideology. Russian Korneslov is the basis of all the languages ​​of the world! For the exam-shaped, this is a forbidden topic. But dare - is it necessary? hi
      1. +8
        August 18 2016
        Quote: siberalt
        And the cultures are different, yes. So what? We with neighboring tribes did not quarrel and did not impose our ideology.



        Let the professor at the University of Florida say better, and what strata of which crops in the United States, specifically in Florida, have been uncovered?
        And what are they talking about?

        Probably the fact that the current Shtatovskaya Ameroras never existed before ...
        Let it be ugroooomnaya with research on its territory, in America -
        1. +7
          August 18 2016
          Quote: weksha50
          Let the professor at the University of Florida say better, and what strata of which crops in the United States, specifically in Florida, have been uncovered?
          And what are they talking about? Probably the fact that the current Shtatovskaya Ameroras never existed before ...
          Let it be ugroooomnaya with research on its territory, in America -

          There is nothing to "explore" especially. USA - the Zionist nest of the Anglo-Saxons has a short history. But in the background of the Zion wanderers, in order to better understand the rotten insides and the essence of the rabble living in the occupied Indian lands, it is worth "digging" ...
        2. +7
          August 18 2016
          Let the professor at the University of Florida say better, and what strata of which crops in the United States, specifically in Florida, have been uncovered?
          And what are they talking about?

          The indigenous population of the United States, like their culture, is rotting in the graves, and those who were lucky enough to survive are on reservations.
      2. -2
        August 19 2016
        Quote: siberalt
        As for even Siberia, the Russians have always been here


        This "always" actually began only with the colonization of Siberia during the time of Strogonov. Don't be like freaks ...
        1. +1
          August 22 2016
          During the excavation of Scythian mounds in Mongolia, it turned out that the Europeans were buried in them ...
    3. +2
      August 18 2016
      http://knigavelesa.narod.ru/asov/sviato-russkie_vedy_kniga_velesa/ogl.html

      Read, maybe someone will be interested. Moreover, the history of the Slavs has already been rewritten more than once "for someone else".
      1. 0
        August 18 2016
        Quote: Deniska
        http://knigavelesa.narod.ru/asov/sviato-russkie_vedy_kniga_velesa/ogl.html

        Read, maybe someone will be interested. Moreover, the history of the Slavs has already been rewritten more than once "for someone else".

        The interpretation of S. Lesnoy suits me better.
    4. +5
      August 18 2016
      what the fuck is that in the news heading? another Western historian is broadcasting in quotation marks here, let the people create the heading "THEIR OPINION" and end it.
    5. +3
      August 18 2016
      Quote: Wend
      Well, Anatoly Alekseevich, you gave a good answer. Anyone who does not want to notice the facts will sooner or later be disgraced. Not only in DNA can one find answers to the antiquity of the Slavs, but also in chronographs. That's just notice, often do not want it.

      Florin Curta (born Florin Curta) (born January 16, 1965) is an American historian, archaeologist, and medievalist of Romanian origin. He studies the history of the Balkan region. He teaches the history of the Middle Ages and archeology at the University of Florida (Gainesville, USA). An American historian, Romanian, teaches in Florida. And what? He works off grandmothers. And also Kurt, obviously of German origin.
      1. 0
        August 19 2016
        One word - Romanian!
    6. +1
      August 18 2016
      Yes, nope, "Professor" Kurt just doesn't finish! In his deep conviction, the ancient Slavs are just orcs, goblins and trolls (from ancient Germanic legends) who came directly from Morder (which, in his opinion, Hollywood proves convincingly) and filled the whole of Eastern Europe !!!
      1. +3
        August 18 2016
        Quote: dedal
        coming straight from Morder

        If Mordor was Russian, then Tolkien was not so popular.
        Fill Russia with two hobbits? Wouldn’t go crazy
    7. 0
      August 19 2016
      Has anyone read "Expertise of the Veles book" by Klyosov. What do you think?))
  2. +14
    August 18 2016
    American professor Florin Kurta is the son of the "ancient and glorious people" of Romania, a long-known Russophobe. He's just sick when he hears the word "Russia". This bastard has spent his entire life fighting our history.
    1. +5
      August 18 2016
      Quote: Valery Valery
      American professor Florin Kurta is the son of the "ancient and glorious people" of Romania, a long-known Russophobe. He's just sick when he hears the word "Russia". This bastard has spent his entire life fighting our history.

      I don’t know who Florin Kurt is and I don’t want to know, relying on your knowledge. Only one tendency is noticeable: they don’t get puffed up, but it is impossible to rewrite Russian new and modern history. So they dig to the ancient Slavs. If they knew this, I think they wouldn’t stand on ceremony, they immediately gave us in the face ...
      1. +4
        August 18 2016
        Only one tendency is noticeable: they don’t get puffed up, but it’s impossible to rewrite Russian new and recent history
        Why? very much even turns out. Even in Russia. Not to mention the USA, Europe, and Ukraine. Each state has its own history (like science), which is written as they say on the topic of the day, and everyone writes it for themselves as they want. To recall the former Union "brothers", each of whom has deepened its "history" over the past 20 years by several millennia (some by 100000 years, probably out of modesty), even those about which 150 years ago, no one even heard of. For some reason, the statement of Svidomo "historians" about the ancient Ukrainians, which descended directly from dinosaurs 40 million years ago, Professor Florin Kurt is absolutely not confused.
    2. +8
      August 18 2016
      that's what exactly is so that no one heard about the ancient Pendos
    3. -3
      August 18 2016
      Quote: Valery Valery
      American professor Florin Kurta is the son of the "ancient and glorious people" of Romania, a long-known Russophobe. He's just sick when he hears the word "Russia". This bastard has spent his entire life fighting our history.

      Yes, it is! Ducky is an ancient people, how glorious I don’t know. They write different things.
      http://www.excursiaromania.ro/%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F/%D0%B4%
      D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8B%
      D0% BD.html
      http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/sie/5051/%D0%94%D0%90%D0%9A%D0%98
    4. +1
      August 19 2016
      It would be better for the Romanians Kurt to search for the historical roots of the Romanian people - a rabble of hundreds of tribes that have passed through Transylvania over the past three thousand years.
      1. 0
        August 22 2016
        ..chi Romanians, Chi gypsies - one root - from India stretches ... this tribe of Indians got it - they expelled their ottel under pain of truncating the head ..
  3. +5
    August 18 2016
    Professor Florin Curta of the University of Florida
    It’s just that the professor’s grandfather traded the scalps of the Indians, so he wants to pay off.
    1. +2
      August 18 2016
      I think his grandfather just labored there on the construction of railways for pennies.
  4. +28
    August 18 2016
    Again, an argument with Russophobes in the forehead! sad It should be simpler: “Yes, 500 years ago we were sitting in the trees, yes, the Normans drove us away and built a state for us, yes, all our culture is imported, European! Now think: we were the second to make a nuclear bomb, the first to make a thermonuclear bomb, the first to come out into space and all this for some 500 years, can you imagine what will happen next? Now let's "smoke", clone Stalin, and you generally have a pipe! " laughing
    IMHO
    1. +10
      August 18 2016
      And finally we taught these gay people to wash Yes
      1. +2
        August 18 2016
        They taught in vain - they stopped washing when basically all the forests were cut down. Then the firewood became terribly expensive and hot water turned into a "luxury item".
      2. +5
        August 18 2016
        And finally we taught these gay people to wash

        That's for sure! Before the Crusades, these knights generally did not wash for a year, and the Arabs struck them with their baths and baths, and in Russia, from time immemorial, they heated the bath every week! By the way, the French came up with wigs and perfumes to at least somehow fight with lice, shaving their heads baldly, and with perfumes to drown out the annual stink of a dirty body!
        1. +2
          August 18 2016
          Well, for the sake of justice, it’s worth noting that they washed themselves in paganism, but then Catholicism forbade washing, not to promote the body cult, but a clean body is like a kind of cult. then their medicine came up with the idea that if you wash, the pores open, through which the external infection penetrates the body.
          and no Arabs taught them how to wash; after the Crusades, they didn’t wash themselves for centuries.
          and then, with the decline of Catholicism such as science, it began to look like the Russian ambassadors regularly wash themselves and for some reason do not get sick with what Europeans are sick with, although it should be the other way around. Well, there the matter shifted. although with hygiene they still have seams. though this time because of money, it’s expensive to wash with them.
    2. +5
      August 18 2016
      Lomonosov would not hurt!
    3. +2
      August 18 2016
      Quote: engineer74
      Now we will "smoke", we will clone Stalin, and you generally have a pipe! "


      But Stalin did not die, we just placed his consciousness in another body bully And in general, if you believe the photo evidence from different eras, then some of us live, if not forever, then sooo long!

      [media = http: //kp.kg/share/i/12/9481997/wr-720.sh-18.jpg]
    4. cap
      +3
      August 18 2016
      Quote: engineer74
      Again, an argument with Russophobes in the forehead! sad It should be simpler: “Yes, 500 years ago we were sitting in the trees, yes, the Normans drove us away and built a state for us, yes, all our culture is imported, European! Now think: we were the second to make a nuclear bomb, the first to make a thermonuclear bomb, the first to come out into space and all this for some 500 years, can you imagine what will happen next? Now let's "smoke", clone Stalin, and you generally have a pipe! " laughing
      IMHO


      Wordless good
  5. +6
    August 18 2016
    DNA genealogy is a science. And attached to archeology - in general, it becomes remarkably accurate. And all sorts of Russophobes ... This is not called science, but science-like essays on a given (and paid) topic. Moreover, payment is not necessary specifically in envelopes for a particular scribble. It can be in the form of professors' salaries and other cookies.
    1. 0
      August 19 2016
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      DNA genealogy is a science. And attached to archeology - in general, it becomes remarkably accurate.


      It is the same science as alchemy with its search for the philosopher's stone, as well as cabalism, astrology and other near-scientific nonsense ...
    2. -1
      August 19 2016
      At the level of DNA and archeology, it has already been thoroughly proven that the Russian Slavs are descendants of the most ancient civilizations.

      In general, we would first need to bring our own history into line with the truth. And to know clearly what's what. Putin instructed to make one truthful history book, only the message was ignored.
      And let the geeks think they want. What should we pay attention to primates?
    3. 0
      August 22 2016
      ..that is a long time ago and goat furstein ..
  6. -5
    August 18 2016
    The search for historical truth is wonderful. It's just not clear what such an article does in the news section. We are talking about the events of a thousand years ago, links to the article of 2015 ... And what, "urgently in the number"? At the same time, burst my spleen, well, I just can't understand how, on the basis of genetic analysis, one can understand the antiquity of a particular culture. Tomorrow they will cross a German Shepherd, a relatively young breed, with the Neapolitano Mastino, which was born in the Roman Empire, get a new breed - "Mascharka", for example, and what will they say on the basis of genetic analysis that the new breed existed thousands of years ago? The gene will be common ...
  7. +4
    August 18 2016
    Such articles of all sorts of Kurts are a direct path to fascism! "What kind of people is this that has no ancestors, history, culture? There is nothing to talk about with them." This is what the Western population is taught. And nobody will delve into the intricacies of history and archeology. They said there weren't any, so there wasn't. am
  8. -1
    August 18 2016
    "DNA", "gallogroups", etc.-yes-ah-ah ... and someone still doubts that "eugenics" is actually "alive" and "healthy" and is gradually being reborn on a new "elemental "base ...
    1. 0
      August 19 2016
      Eugenics has nothing to do with it, you start crossbreeding someone with someone; at the maximum, give rise to a new mutation of an existing haplogroup.
  9. 0
    August 18 2016
    Professor Florin Curta from the University of Florida published a 2015-page article in Starohrvatska prosvjeta (17) entitled Four Questions for Those Who Still Believe in Prehistoric Slavs and Other Tales. Author Anatoly Klyosov

    "The trouble is, since the pies will start the cobbler oven,
    And boots stitch pastry:
    And it will not work well,
    Yes, and noted a hundredfold, "
    I.A.Krylov "Pike and Cat"
  10. +7
    August 18 2016
    Yes, DNA says a lot about the past and about resettlement and migration, and if you know the true history of events, you can put everything on the shelves, but who will allow it. The chosen ones of God will never allow, because they consider themselves the first and beloved by God, and is this so? That is the question and wherever you sunxia "you can't dig", "We won't give you permission", "History based on copies from the original manuscripts" (and where are the originals), and the originals were randomly burned in great libraries or in the Vatican, and they are still gathering dust hidden from the eyes of ordinary people.
    As the saying goes: "If an artifact contradicts the official story, so much the worse for the artifact." And that says it all, because history has been rewritten more than once and the old roots and information about the past are mercilessly destroyed or disappear in some unknown place.
    It seems that it is the Slavs who are the bearers of the spark of God and some are very worried and hysterical.
  11. +4
    August 18 2016
    Professor Florin Curta (Florin Curta) from the University of Florida published in the Starohrvatska prosvjeta (2015) magazine an article on the 17 pages entitled “Four questions for those who still believe in prehistoric Slavs and other fairy tales.”

    And what, could one expect a laudatory ode in honor of the Slavs from a professor at the University of Florida? No, of course, and what is true here and what is not, I personally do not care at all. Since this can only be regarded as an attempt to "seriously hit" the Slavic culture. Now, if the "Florida herald" brought the results of research proving the "antiquity of the overseas nation", that would be a surprise!
  12. -1
    August 18 2016
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw0U_cdceGw
    Highly recommend for those who have not yet encountered.
    Especially the book, the link to which is given in this speech - "The Arctic homeland in the Vedas"
  13. 0
    August 18 2016
    very grammatically and reasonably unambiguously credited, completely agree with the author everything else is superfluous
  14. +1
    August 18 2016
    Looking at the success of propaganda in the USSR, Germany, USA, Ukraine, you realize that in 20-30 years it is absolutely possible to completely rewrite any "history". For two hundred years we have managed to "lose" our native Tartary (the country is even in the first editions of English encyclopedias) and come up with a yoke. Without a clear answer to the substantive question "Who are the Russians?", We argue about the abstract "Slavs".

    My opinion. Russia is the CONDITION (caste) of rulers and warriors. Those under the rule of Rus are Russians. In the west, these "subjects" of Russia in the Latin manner were called Slavs. By the way, this approach does not at all contradict the "Russian spirit" and completely removes national and religious strife.
    1. +2
      August 18 2016
      Quote: Bayun
      My opinion. Russia - CONDITION (caste)

      I did not know that I was an estate. Don’t teach us how to cast. laughing
      1. 0
        August 19 2016
        Bayun probably proceeds from the fact that any Indo-European society in antiquity should be caste following the example of India. Presumably the caste of the Magi, the caste of the Rus ... Later, in the collapse of the ancient way of life (probably during the expansion of Christ), the adherents of the old faith began to be named after the caste that defended them. It is far-fetched, but theoretically such a alignment can be offered. It is difficult to refute.
  15. +2
    August 18 2016
    (c) And such a person not only undertakes to study the history of the ancient Slavs (c)
    Here the author was slightly mistaken. This "scientist" - Russophobe did not try to study the history of the ancient Slavs. These "works" of him have one goal - to tighten and interpret any facts in order to discredit the Great People.
  16. +2
    August 18 2016
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw0U_cdceGw
    Highly recommend for those who have not yet encountered.


    You do not insert the link and the movie itself in your post.
    1. +2
      August 18 2016
      Gusli is a wonderful tool!
  17. +3
    August 18 2016
    Interestingly, the ancestors of carriers of the haplogroup R1b (the most common in Western Europe and the Southern Urals) came to Europe about 5000 years ago and they came from South Siberia.

    And in the British Isles
    - a whole group of territories on which the descendants of the Slavic Aryans, R1a1, have long lived. They numerically do not dominate in comparison with another genus, R1b, of which the Celts are a typical representative, and who came there 3500–4000 years ago. But there are not so few of them, descendants of the Aryans, on the islands.

    In England, the common ancestor of modern carriers R1a1 lived 4800 years ago, as in Germany. But in England and generally on the British islands, the descendants of the Slavs are relatively few, from 2% to 9% for all islands. The West European R1b (71%) and Baltic I1 (16%) haplogroups completely dominate there.
    (A.A. Klyosov)

    Distribution of Y-DNA haplogroups in Europe. The principle of puzzles - areas are highlighted where the frequencies of haplogroups make up more than a third of the gene pool (> 35%) (Wikipedia)
  18. 0
    August 18 2016
    And why are the cons of the article, what's wrong? Someone came in at the beginning, set minuses in silence. Though speak out, with what do not agree.
    1. +1
      August 18 2016
      What is there to speak about? The stupidest version of folk history. To compose for ourselves the Great Secret Ancient History Disguised by Evil Enemies is the destiny of the small and historically inconspicuous peoples, we are not to face this nonsense. The greatness of the Russian people lies precisely in the fact that in a historically minimal time period an advanced state and the largest empire in the world have been created. Let them be proud in the east that they have been spinning tails for donkeys for 100000 years. PS And it is foolish to be proud of super-superpower - this speaks either of the general inhibition of the ethnos-civilization, or of its fundamental inability to develop more or less.
      1. 0
        August 19 2016
        I don’t see stupidity in pride for the fact that you do not come from a bunch of roadside sluts, but from an ancient and noble family. Especially when you yourself correspond to this. A decent bonus to the choice among the most beautiful women, a decent bonus in the form of centuries-old ties with noble and powerful clans and clans. All this is attached to representatives of ancient civilizations. Just don’t tell me about the possibilities of the Zuckerbergs and gates, such as they grabbed their star from the sky, but I am convinced that right now they are in a beautiful development in the plans of all the same ancient surnames of the West. They will either be tied in kinship or their property will be redeemed so that the descendants will not remain. So to belong to the oldest and most noble is not at all silly and does not characterize negatively
    2. +1
      August 19 2016
      In VO there are enough cosmopolitans and Ivanes who do not remember kinship.
  19. 0
    August 18 2016
    And why is "critic" in quotation marks, but not "professor"? There are a dime a dozen of such "professors" in Ukraine, institutes are discovering, the truth is broadcasting, but for some reason the "scientist" did not tell the facts about the globe of Romania and the United States. networks did not lead.
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  22. 0
    August 18 2016
    I didn’t read the article. How many deeds Heracles performed and where are the descendants of Hercules in present-day Greece. About Rome I will not. These macaroni Latin forgot and came up with the Italian language.
    1. 0
      August 19 2016
      everything is tragicomic with Rome .... when Rome was the GREATEST EMPIRE ... and now it's just a little town in Geyrop about which most people know only by the fact that there is some kind of Pope)))
  23. +2
    August 18 2016
    Great comments by the author on the research of a historian from the USA. I thought that in his work there are not enough conclusions that the Black Sea was dug up by the Ukrainians, and the Buddha by the mother was a crest. I have the honor.
  24. 0
    August 18 2016
    Professor Florin Curta from the University of Florida is a liar too! Which doher is also in Europe .... and who really accepts him is also not the best! ... to take the West as a civilized cluster for the world! ... and listen their nonsense .. like the Ukrainians dug up the Black Sea.)) In general, there are so many ancient peoples in Russia !! .. that if anyone is revealed, then Europeans will become orphans .. without culture and territory ... even Etso crap Europeans !!! .. from RUSSIA eats the beginning of the river ...... (Don) -a! .. and its other end .... (Croydon (near London), Ledon (in England), Loddon (near London), Little- Don (District of England). Kalmdon in Northern Ireland),
  25. +1
    August 19 2016
    it is clear that this some kind of professor from some kind of institute of some kind of Sshan state is trying to belittle the nation of Slavs to raise his nation of "Americans" .... but why does our respected professor explain everything to him so much and scientifically and argue with him ?? ???? Isn't it easier to explain to the Pindo-professor that he puffs in vain because it doesn't matter when the Slavs happened, it is important that the "Americans" nation just DOES NOT exist in nature ... this is not a nation, but the geographic location of the various rabble of the Eurasian, African continents, which occupied the territory of North America, cutting out the entire indigenous population, and there is only less than three hundred years? :)))))))) Why should a person who, in fact, have no nationality and descended from someone's line, prove something about a great nation Slavs, who in Europe are the BIGGEST ethno-linguistic community, of which there are only more than 20 varieties of some :)))))) and an American is just an American ... as I am a Sakhalin))) because I live on Sakhalin and at the same time I'm Russian ... and he lives in the USA and who is he? Hispano-Anglo-German-Negro-Arabian-French-French-Italian-Australian?% :)))))
  26. 0
    August 19 2016
    Quote: excomandante
    What is there to speak about? The stupidest version of folk history. To compose for ourselves the Great Secret Ancient History Disguised by Evil Enemies is the destiny of the small and historically inconspicuous peoples, we are not to face this nonsense. The greatness of the Russian people lies precisely in the fact that in a historically minimal time period an advanced state and the largest empire in the world have been created. Let them be proud in the east that they have been spinning tails for donkeys for 100000 years. PS And it is foolish to be proud of super-superpower - this speaks either of the general inhibition of the ethnos-civilization, or of its fundamental inability to develop more or less.

    You have, to put it mildly, an alternative view of things. Have you ever read the article? Something is not believed. It does not talk about a secret story, just about what the facts consist of, and it is written. By the way, why do you declare that our people do not have a great history? There is every reason for this. The statement is at least strange.

    You don’t need to “fool around”, but it’s worth knowing your own roots and history in details so that just such jackals from the pen, to whose insinuations Professor Klesov answered, could not distort, blacken and spit. And such attempts in recent years are not enough.
  27. 0
    August 22 2016
    xorgi,
    ... The Star of Bethlehem is a supernova explosion in the constellation Taurus in the Crab Nebula and "the visit of the Comet (God's Angel) took place in 1152 ..
    Here you can at least pull out all your fur at the 5th point, but contrary to such facts, only a sick person, or one who is frostbitten to his entire head, can "arise".
    This is the date of birth of Christ 1152 ..
    The entire "traditional history" before 1152, along with actual events, is about 100-200 years, in agreement with the stone of the ancient Kings in Bulgaria, you can still "trace" well, and further into the depths of the centuries, however, variations or reflections of later events were placed in antiquity with intention ..

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