Tank "Type 96B": scores and competitions

170
Recently, the next World Championship in tank biathlon ended at the Alabino training ground. The first place in these competitions was again taken by Russian tankers. The second place went to the national team of the People's Liberation Army of China. It is interesting that the Chinese tankers again, for the third time, refused the equipment offered by the organizer. Unlike other teams that played at tanks T-72B, Chinese participants used their own Type 96B armored vehicles. A tank of this type was demonstrated for the first time at such an event and could not fail to attract the attention of specialists and the general public. In addition, some incidents that occurred during the competition attracted additional interest in Chinese technology.

Recall, China participates in Russian competitions with 2014 of the year. From the very beginning, the Chinese national team decided not to use the Russian-made tanks offered by the organizer, which is why the crews came to the competition with their equipment. In previous years, they performed on tanks "Type 96A", and now as a vehicle for the competition were offered armored vehicles of the new modification "Type 96B".

"Type 96B" or ZTZ 96B is the latest at the moment the representative of his family and is a further development of the previous machines. Using new units and units, as well as some modern developments, the company NORINCO, producing the bulk of Chinese armored vehicles, recently proposed another version of a set of measures aimed at improving the basic characteristics of technology. According to reports, the main innovations of the project "Type 96B" concerned the modernization of the power plant and transmission, with which it was planned to increase the mobility of technology.

Tank "Type 96B": scores and competitions
Tank "Type 96B". Photo Warspot.ru


Being a development of the existing armored vehicle, "Type 96B" retains some of its features. So, without significant changes, the hull and tower with counter-booking and combined frontal protection are borrowed from the existing project. In addition, the proposed use of dynamic protection, further reducing the likelihood of injury. The classic layout of the hull is also preserved with the location of all the power plant and transmission units in the stern.

As the main weapons tanks of all modifications of the “Type 96” family carry an 125-mm smooth-bore ZPT-98 gun, considered to be a variant of the Soviet / Russian 2-46 cannon. The gun is equipped with automatic loader and is able to use various types of ammunition. In addition, compatibility with guided missiles launched through the barrel. Additional armament consists of a coaxial machine gun rifle caliber and large-caliber on the turret. The use of smoke grenade launchers is also envisaged.

In the original version, the tanks "Type 96A", according to available data, are equipped with diesel engines manufactured by NORINCO company with 1000 horsepower. A mechanical planetary transmission is used, which is a further development of the tank systems "Type 88". The tank has a chassis based on six road wheels with individual torsion bar suspension on each side. Used guide wheels front layout and leading aft. With a 42,5 T combat weight, the “Type 96A” tank is capable of speeding up to 65 km / h.

Previously appeared unconfirmed information about the modernization of tanks intended to be sent to the competition. According to these data, in order to improve the driving performance in preparation for a tank biathlon, the 96A Type machines received improved engines that developed power up to 1200 hp. In the case of the next modernization project, the use of the new engine also took place. Now 1200-strong engine is the standard equipment of tanks "Type 96B".


"Type 96A" at last year's competition. Wikimedia Commons Photos


According to the latest reports of the Chinese press, including those related to the armed forces, tanks of the 96 Type family can become the main armored vehicles of their class in the military in the foreseeable future. As of the end of last year, the People’s Liberation Army of China had approximately 7 thousand tanks of different models, including about 2 thousand "Type 96" of two existing modifications. At the same time, the "Type 96" are not the newest and most advanced Chinese tanks: mass production of the newer "Type 99" has already been launched. However, the total number of the latter does not exceed 600 units, which is associated with the high cost of such equipment. As a result, it is expected that “Type 96B” will go into mass production, while more advanced “Type 99” will be built in much smaller quantities.

Chinese experts are of the opinion that the main tank "Type 96B" is currently the most successful Chinese development in this area in terms of cost and efficiency. In addition, according to its characteristics, it is claimed that this technique is not inferior to foreign models of the present time. Thus, this armored vehicle turns out to be the most convenient means of re-equipping tank units, which still contain old types of equipment, including those that no longer meet the requirements of the times.

In early July, the Chinese military began preparing equipment for shipment to the competition. In the first days of last month, there were reports of loading several tanks "Type 96B" on railway platforms and sending to Russia. A few days later, photos of the echelon, already taken on the territory of our country, appeared in free access. In mid-July, Chinese crews and tanks arrived in the Moscow region to participate in competitions.

The participation of new Chinese tanks in competitions showed both advantages and disadvantages of the existing modernization. As it turned out, the new technique does have some advantages, but it is not without drawbacks. The positive aspects of modernization affected the overall mobility indicators. At the same time, for one reason or another, tanks "Type 96B" faced with certain problems.

According to some reports, the upgraded tanks before the competition underwent additional training. First of all, part of the systems and equipment was dismantled from them. To reduce the mass of combat tanks for biathlon lost dynamic protection, part of the fuel tanks, etc. Weight reduction in combination with the engine power 1200 hp was supposed to provide high mobility. For example, there were estimates of the possibility of acceleration to 75-80 km / h.


Chinese tanks on the way to Alabino. Photo Vestnik-rm.ru


At the initial stages of the tank biathlon, such estimates and assumptions were fully justified. Chinese crews on the “Type 96B” demonstrated a certain advantage over their rivals in speed and dynamic characteristics. Nevertheless, in the future, the parameters of the tanks began to decline, adversely affecting the results of races. Probably, the new high-powered power plant did not have time to go through the whole complex of tests in various conditions and the necessary refinement, which did not allow to maintain the performance at the required level throughout all the competitions.

Another characteristic feature of the Chinese tank crews can speak about the lack of knowledge of the transmission and control systems. So, repeatedly there was an exit for the limits of the specified route noted by columns. This may indicate a lack of experience of the crew, as well as the specific characteristics of the equipment, which does not show the desired controllability.

Most of the problems of Chinese tanks "Type 96B" during the competition was noticeable only to specialists, but not without obvious breakdowns, which do not require special knowledge or skills to determine. August 13 after passing one of the obstacles, the Chinese tank was forced to stop due to a breakdown. Loads when driving through the so-called. comb led to the destruction of the mountings of the balancer front left support roller. The skating rink and the balance bar made chaotic movements inside the caterpillar for several seconds, then flew out and drove off to the edge of the track.

After a breakdown, the Chinese tank went through some of the route, and then stopped, waiting for replacement. The crew had to finish the race on another machine. In addition, due to a breakdown on the track, the team was charged a fine.

For obvious reasons, the incident with the support roller is perhaps the most discussed topic in the context of the recent Tank Biathlon Championship. Indeed, equipment failures at competitions or in preparation for them do not happen very often, which is why each such incident attracts special attention. In addition, an additional reason for interest is the fact that the Chinese team uses its own technique. Thus, there is a reason to consider the performance at a competition in the context of determining the potential of a vehicle as a whole.


The tank that lost the rink. Photo Tvzvezda.ru


Interestingly, it is not the first time when Chinese tankers are faced with technical problems. So, in 2014, at one of the stages of the competition, they needed a new car, because the tank on which they started, simply stalled and needed repair. Now the list of reasons for the replacement of equipment includes an accident with a support roller.

According to the results of recent competitions there are grounds for criticism of the latest Chinese armored vehicles. The participation of tanks in biathlon showed that they have a number of problems that in one way or another worsen the real characteristics and capabilities. In addition, they do not allow vehicle crews to fully realize all the advantages associated with the innovations of the modernization project. As a result, there was a deterioration in performance, as well as obvious damage.

The main objective of the project “Type 96B”, as follows from the data published by China, was to increase the mobility of the tank with the help of a more powerful engine. The increase in power at the level of 20% relative to the base modification “Type 96A” should have significantly increased the speed parameters of the machine, as well as simplified the overcoming of various obstacles. However, as shown by the participation of armored vehicles in recent Russian competitions, to date, it still has certain problems that do not allow the use of the power plant with full efficiency.

In addition, there is reason for the lack of reliability. In the course of overcoming obstacles that are not a serious difficulty for modern tanks, the Chinese machine "Type 96B" lost the track roller and balance bar. Despite the loss of the undercarriage element, the tank was able to continue moving, which indicates its high survivability, but full participation in the races after that was impossible. Fortunately for the crew, the tank of the same type fitted for the replacement carried out all the tasks assigned to it without noticeable problems.

Once again, Chinese participants in a tank biathlon held in Russia used their own equipment, rejecting the one proposed by the organizers. During the competition, these cars brought some troubles to their crews, but in general, the results of the Chinese national team performances look very successful. In the overall team standings, the tankers of the People’s Liberation Army of China took second place, losing only to the Russian participants, which can speak about the good capabilities of technology and the corresponding skills of its crews.


Damaged undercarriage. Photo Ursa-tm.ru


It is quite obvious that even before the end of the competition, Chinese specialists began to study and analyze the problems that had arisen in order to find their solutions and further improve the serial equipment. There is reason to believe that the following deficiencies of the “Type 96B” will be corrected for the following competitions, thanks to which such tanks will be able to pass around the track and hit the indicated targets without any problems this time.

However, it will be necessary to correct not only technical shortcomings, but also the reputation of technology. Problems with engines and damage to the undercarriage can seriously hit the image of tanks "Type 96B" in the eyes of potential customers. Such equipment has a certain export potential, but the inability to show themselves from a good side during a competition can change the opinion of its potential buyers. In addition, the situation takes on a specific look in the light of statements by Chinese experts and experts. They claim that the newest tank of China in its characteristics is not inferior to foreign technology, but in practice the situation does not look like that.

Whether NORINCO can cope with the current tasks of improving technology and restoring its reputation will be shown by time. Next year, the Chinese industry will get a new chance to demonstrate their latest developments during the next World Tank Biathlon Championship.


On the materials of the sites:
http://tvzvezda.ru/
http://arms-expo.ru/
https://regnum.ru/
http://hindustantimes.com/
http://vestnik-rm.ru/
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170 comments
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  1. +26
    August 16 2016
    Specialists predicted that an increase in power would lead to problems with the chassis, even before the competition.
    1. +8
      August 16 2016
      And this is on a lightweight car.
      1. +4
        August 16 2016
        Well, how much has it been facilitated? Do you want to say that our T72 went to the same tracks, in a full combat body kit? Why should you deceive yourself?
        Both the Chinese and ours, for example, did not put elements of active protection on the tanks, a box under them, does not mean that everything is inside.
        It’s the same with loading the entire BC and fuel. So, it’s not worth calling into question the achievement of the Chinese, in a fit of outburst.
        The tank school of China is largely borrowed from us, which means that their samples are created at about our level, with fluctuations in one direction or another.
        1. +18
          August 16 2016
          Is it normal that the Chinese removed the elements of the standard structure from the car?

          Simply, you can lighten the tank by at least 20 tons, if you remove all the armor and leave only the engine, rollers with tracks, and a gun with a swivel mechanism, covered with sheets of aluminum alloy. They don’t shoot at him, why drag extra 20 tons?
          What is the fundamental difference with the fact that the Chinese removed side screens and tripods for remote sensing?

          It would be necessary for the next biathlon to clearly discuss that the tank appears in FULL additional ammunition and clothing, which is supposed for military operations. Otherwise, it will turn into a competition of special racing tank cars.

          Maybe ours didn’t come out in full kit - this too should be changed. But our tank at least looked like a tank, even if the boxes from under the remote sensing were empty.

          In races, for example, there is a certain standard for the weight of a jockey. If your jockey is lighter, a bag with a weighting agent is hung on the horse to the desired weight.
          Rather, the tanks need to add the weight of the full ammunition, DZ, AZ, and fuel in the tank so that they are fully consistent with their actual combat load.
          1. +4
            August 16 2016
            And if part of the armor is replaced with balsa or birch beams? fellow Vaaaashchschscheeee !!! fellow
          2. +1
            August 16 2016
            Quote: Darkmor
            It would be necessary to the next biathlon

            shooting with mannequins at the end of the competition
          3. +4
            August 17 2016
            In my opinion, a breakdown of the balancer indicates the insufficient strength of this balancer. That is, China, as it could not make high-quality steels, did not learn.
            On our T-55-62, with a strong roller impact on an obstacle (the first track roller), a torsion bar could break, but I did not hear about breakdowns of the balancer.
            The T-72-90 (I'm not talking about the T-80) torsion failure is a rare case. Again - no damage to the balancer is heard.
            And the Chinese and the rush of a caterpillar in the competition met.
          4. +2
            August 17 2016
            Quote: Darkmor
            Simply, you can lighten the tank by at least 20 tons

            So they made it easier, but not twenty, of course ..., then we read
            The Chinese crew on the Type 96B showed a certain advantage over their rivals in speed and dynamic performance. However, in the future, the parameters of the tanks began to decline, negatively affecting the results of the races. Probably, the new power plant of increased power did not manage to pass the whole complex of tests in various conditions and the necessary refinement, which did not allow maintaining the characteristics at the required level throughout all competitions.

            Most likely on a lightweight tank with a forced engine, the engine was simply twisted. Everything is revealed during tests, and they are unlikely to have been carried out in this configuration ... request
            1. 0
              August 17 2016
              The length of the hull of the tank "Type 96a" (I will assume that it is also 96B) is 0,75 meters longer than the length of the hull of the T-72 tank. At the same time, according to the passport (from various sources), its weight is 42,5 tons (T-72B3 - 46 tons).

              That is, with a longer length has less weight. Something I have big doubts about the sufficient reservation with this tank.
          5. The comment was deleted.
          6. 0
            August 26 2016
            Absolutely the right direction. It is desirable that the equipment is fully loaded, including the BK. With a full body kit. Otherwise, these are simple SUVs ... hi
        2. +2
          August 17 2016
          question the achievement of the Chinese in a fit gobbler of gaspotreotismnot worth it
          1) and how is it? (highlighted in bold)
          2) well Duc "impulse" to your chagrin did not happen, what then to question? What wasn't there?
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. The comment was deleted.
        3. 0
          August 29 2016
          you're wrong. China’s tank school has taken part of our experience, but they have their own standards, including reliability. Our standards are taken from real combat experience, but China does not have it and until they get their bumps, they will not invest in reliability.
      2. 0
        August 16 2016
        96B - 48ton, 1000hp
        t-72B4 - 46.5 tons, 1130 hp.
        1. +4
          August 16 2016
          It seems like 96 hp is drawn for "Type 1200B", as opposed to 1000 "horses" for 96A ... Or am I already confusing numbers at night? request Or you, sir, drove the garbage? request
      3. PKK
        -1
        August 16 2016
        In the early 60s, a Chinese cadet, when landing, broke the MiG15. The Komsomol meeting gathered there and decided to cut off the head of the cadet. There might have been a gust of wind. They took the cadet by the hill and cut off his head there. Our instructors explained to the leaders that this was not right, and they stopped cutting off the heads of the guilty. So, it’s not so simple, the guilty will have to answer not weakly. The principle is very effective and causes envy among seasoned ones.
        1. +1
          August 17 2016
          Another thing pleases, finally decided to radically increase the infantry firepower


          Moscow, RIA Orenburg, Russia and the world
          17 August 2016, 09: 58
          BTR-82 will be transformed into a killer of tanks



          The Russian Ministry of Defense decided to thoroughly increase the combat power of the main combat vehicle of motorized rifles and marines - the BTR-82 armored personnel carrier, which instead of the 30-millimeter will receive a 57-mm automatic gun. The new heavily armed armored personnel carrier will not only easily cope with the enemy "classmates", but will also be able to seriously damage or even destroy the tank.
          “At present, a fundamental decision has been made and a project is being approved for installing the AU-220M Baikal combat artillery module on the chassis of the BTR-82 armored personnel carrier,” a representative of the Russian military department familiar with the situation said in an interview with the Izvestia newspaper. - The main objective of the armored personnel carrier is to transport troops, but the placement of the module radically increases its firepower. Therefore, in addition to technical work, research is underway, the purpose of which is to determine what combat tasks on the battlefield will be solved by the BTR-82 with Baikal.
          1. 0
            August 17 2016
            the firepower of the infantry is the firepower located directly in the battle formations (this is in battle) and not the kpvt. not a pkt, not a 30 mm cannon, armored personnel carriers did not play any, because they are usually far from the battle and are protected by the fathers of the commanders from the fire defeat of the enemy. this firepower can be well used against a guerrilla or semi-partisan enemy, but against an equivalent army unit with standard army weapons and tactics. "Cavalry" attacks by BMP and BTR forces also - usually bring a series of "beautiful" but bitter torches, rather than success. but with the combat power of the infantry, we still have ...
      4. +5
        August 16 2016
        Yeah. It resembles the case of survival races, where UAZs played mainly, but decided, as a show off and an advertisement, to put out a new UAZ Patriot. He abruptly took off, but drove a little over 100 meters and stood up, rooted to the spot. It turned out that when calculating the power steering and suspension in some places, when calculating in commas, they got lost, well, on the gears all the teeth fell down ... Adventures of Type 96V are very similar ...
    2. +6
      August 16 2016
      Well, it seems obvious that increasing the engine’s high-torque capability will increase the load on the chassis ...
      I "plusanul" the author, but his tendency to constantly repeat the same arguments under one or another sauce leads to the idea that he is used to communicating either with the nursery group of a kindergarten or with people suffering from Down syndrome ... : "Yes, everything is clear, clear, there is no need to repeat it for the fifth time!" fellow wassat fool
      1. +1
        August 16 2016
        Quote: Aqela
        however, his tendency to constantly repeat the same arguments under one or another sauce leads to the idea that he is used to talking either with the nursery group of kindergarten or with people suffering from Down syndrome ...



        Or just the text stretched, for volume.
  2. +3
    August 16 2016
    Hodovka T-80 is clearly.
    1. +28
      August 16 2016
      Give the term a couple of years and the Chinese will bring another copy of Almaty to Alabino.
      These guys are smart. laughing
      1. +19
        August 16 2016
        Quote: geek2101
        Give the term a couple of years and the Chinese will bring another copy of Almaty to Alabino

        - it is unlikely. Or it will be like the engine of an engineer Polesov:

        Quote: "Twelve Chairs"
        ... and from the debris of the motorcycle in the next binge period, he built a stationary engine, which It was very similar to a real engine, but did not work
        1. +4
          August 16 2016
          C'mon, what’s there.
          This one goes and shoots, although it breaks ... and he will be.
          Yes
      2. PN
        +1
        August 16 2016
        They just brought a copy, and not an analog.
      3. +5
        August 16 2016
        Yes - a racing version with body kits and spoilers.
      4. +25
        August 16 2016
        Quote: geek2101
        Give the term a couple of years and the Chinese will bring another copy of Almaty to Alabino.
        These guys are smart.

        In the veins of the Chinese tank building Russian blood flows. Not so much because the Chinese are copying our tanks, but for the reason that it was our designers and manufacturers who once laid the foundation of this tank building base. Therefore, it is not worth saying that their tanks are slag. This means that ours too. Failures that occur on Chinese cars, apparently, are not so much constructive as technological. And the Chinese are constantly working to improve the technological level. It is worth a lot to take second place at a foreign training ground, losing only to its owners, who know every bump of their route. It would be interesting to see how our team would perform at a training ground somewhere in the Chinese Khingan.
        1. +12
          August 16 2016
          Quote: Verdun
          To borrow second place at a foreign training ground, losing only to its owners who know every bump of their route, it costs a lot

          - They answered you here, a little lower, and absolutely correctly:

          Quote: Ramzaj99
          Quote: Kenneth
          They lost only to ours which, in their own training ground, can ride with their eyes closed.
          They took second place behind only the owners who knew the training ground.

          For those who are in a helmet))))
          The final configuration of the training ground was completed a few days before the competition. All teams started to test the range at the same time. This is a prerequisite for the competition, so that the host country does not have advantages
          1. -3
            August 16 2016
            For those who are in a helmet))))
            The final configuration of the training ground was completed a few days before the competition. All teams started to test the range at the same time. This is a prerequisite for the competition, so that the host country does not have advantages
            These songs can be sung by those who have not served in the army and have never gone to bed with a machine gun in anticipation of a "sudden alarm".
            1. +8
              August 16 2016
              Quote: Verdun
              For those who are in a helmet))))
              The final configuration of the training ground was completed a few days before the competition. All teams started to test the range at the same time. This is a prerequisite for the competition, so that the host country does not have advantages
              These songs can be sung by those who have not served in the army and have never gone to bed with a machine gun in anticipation of a "sudden alarm".

              - yeah ... "tomorrow, at 5 am, the alarm will suddenly be announced" - Are you talking about this?
              - Now they are leaving this, according to rumors. Or maybe they’ve already left
              - at close range I do not understand how it is sideways to what has been said - about the training ground and its "run-in" by crews at competitions what
              1. 0
                August 16 2016
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                - at close range I do not understand how it is sideways to what has been said - about the training ground and its "run-in" by crews at competitions

                Well, like in any part there was an ensign who teased a brick so that it looks whole, but you can beat them in piles, but the argument is very similar to the cry-duet of an Irish boxer and dill manager
            2. +8
              August 16 2016
              Quote: Verdun
              For those who are in a helmet))))
              The final configuration of the training ground was completed a few days before the competition. All teams started to test the range at the same time. This is a prerequisite for the competition, so that the host country does not have advantages
              These songs can be sung by those who have not served in the army and have never gone to bed with a machine gun in anticipation of a "sudden alarm".

              Personally, I served in the army. Of course, the teachings were always known long before them, but he never slept with a gun. In the context of this teaching, there was not the slightest need for this.
              You extremely primitively talk about the process of deploying a military unit on alarm (especially the real one). The unit does not become a combat unit, not having built on the parade ground with machine guns and gas masks, but having received the necessary ammunition and food supplies, which are received by special teams from the part’s warehouses, after the arrival of the warehouse managers upon alarm. It actually takes several hours, for which you will not only have time to get weapons from the weapons room, bring yourself and your equipment in order a hundred times. You’ll also have time to sleep (if your situation on alarm allows it).
              For example, if you are in a daily outfit, you must first wait for the shift (those who are in an anxious outfit painted) and then stomp to get a gun. Etc...
              They rush with combat alert only in stupid cultural films. Of course, in the conditions of hostilities on the front line, other norms of the charters apply, but there nobody sleeps without weapons.
              1. +6
                August 16 2016
                Is it your action in parts of the frame and internal third-rate districts?
                Saw the shura, saw it, in the GSVG, motorized rifle regiment, when raised by alarm, left the RPM-45 min in the summer, 1 hour in the winter, with all its belongings.
                Only an orchestra remained in the regiment, as a security team and, if necessary, a submission team for the remaining junk.
                1. +2
                  August 17 2016
                  Quote: The Bloodthirster
                  Is it your action in parts of the frame and internal third-rate districts?
                  Saw the shura, saw it, in the GSVG, motorized rifle regiment, when raised by alarm, left in the summer PPD-45 min, 1 hour in winter, with all his belongings.
                  Only an orchestra remained in the regiment, as a security team and, if necessary, a submission team for the remaining junk.

                  negative
                  You, sir, better remember the standards: in the GSVG regiment in the summer - 30 minutes, in the winter - 45. There were two shifts of the guard, two shifts of the outfits (all) and the delivery team in the regiment. The orchestra did not remain, since it is from the regular units. Kok-so, here tongue drinks
            3. 0
              August 26 2016
              Even a XNUMX% copy of the landfill during construction will cease to appear to it after several runs of equipment, and subjectively copy the terrain and landmarks ... The game is not worth the candle. Yes, and you can change the order of the route at any time, roll back all the options!
        2. -5
          August 16 2016
          Quote: Verdun
          Failures that occur on Chinese cars, apparently, are not so much constructive as technological. And the Chinese are constantly

          There is a certain constructive nature in these breakdowns. Transmissions of tanks with engines of similar power and a similar mass of vehicles are steadily streaming. They need to be redesigned.
          Our tanks obviously have the same diseases (the latest modifications of the T-72, Almaty). Gearboxes do not pull such specific loads. Although, basically, it all comes down to the selection of gear ratios. Looks like outdated design programs. Or metal has become much lower quality (this is already related to technology).
          1. +9
            August 16 2016
            Oh .. and how long have you seen massive breakdowns of torsion bars on the T72?
            And how massively do the front torsion bars on Armata come out?
            Something I’ve been working for quite a long time, I didn’t observe mass outages of the T72 torsion bars, except when in the mountains, some kind of burdock from the mechanical drives in 4-5 gears, on the descent, losing control of the machine, entered a boulder.
            What he flew there at such a speed, he himself could not say, grabbed cones, but a broken leg, with a torsion ... cheaply got off.
            Another T72, hiding from the mountain, the fact that it was happening, flew three hundred meters down a slope of 65%, nothing, flew to the bottom, escaping a coup, again, for some reason, the torsion bars did not break on any rink.
          2. +3
            August 16 2016
            Quote: uwzek
            Transmissions of tanks with engines of similar power and a similar mass of vehicles are steadily streaming.

            For example, the T-80U, having a power of 1250 hp? Or Leopard-2, with a diesel engine of 1500 hp? smile
            1. +2
              August 17 2016
              Quote: Verdun
              Quote: uwzek
              Transmissions of tanks with engines of similar power and a similar mass of vehicles are steadily streaming.

              For example, the T-80U, having a power of 1250 hp? Or Leopard-2, with a diesel engine of 1500 hp? smile

              Leopard is a good car and very high quality made. the same and the T-80. we have both tanks in service. T-80U in Cyprus. Leopard 2 on mainland Greece. despite the fact that both tanks have their modest flaws. these are very good tanks. the Chinese did not stand there either.
        3. +3
          August 16 2016
          And how do you test the BMP-3 in the UAE? All competitors have done !!
        4. +1
          August 16 2016
          Quote: Verdun
          losing only to its owners who know every bump of their route, it is worth a lot

          And how did you shoot? Announce who is in the subject
        5. +2
          August 17 2016
          maybe the Chinese tank building was born from the Russian, but it doesn’t look much like a parent anymore. and the reason is that in their tanks there are and probably never will be hundreds of battles and battles that took place by Russian troops, including tank ones. First of all, you need to know what is happening on the battlefield in order to craft weapons (including tanks), and there is plenty of knowledge and experience in Russia (and they are fresh and modern, especially taking into account Papuan-like users). But China has neither one nor the other. And you can copy everything only with a sword and a copy of the sword is always different things.
        6. 0
          August 17 2016
          Quote: Verdun
          Quote: geek2101
          Give the term a couple of years and the Chinese will bring another copy of Almaty to Alabino.
          These guys are smart.

          In the veins of the Chinese tank building Russian blood flows. Not so much because the Chinese are copying our tanks, but for the reason that it was our designers and manufacturers who once laid the foundation of this tank building base. Therefore, it is not worth saying that their tanks are slag. This means that ours too. Failures that occur on Chinese cars, apparently, are not so much constructive as technological. And the Chinese are constantly working to improve the technological level. It is worth a lot to take second place at a foreign training ground, losing only to its owners, who know every bump of their route. It would be interesting to see how our team would perform at a training ground somewhere in the Chinese Khingan.

          Yes there are not slag tanks, but the quality of materials and assembly. a tank can be when it’s only from the assembly line and is good, but .. as they say before the first breakdown. in our city, the Chinese hardware store opened. my friend bought a scooter there (I must say that before that we mostly used Japanese and Italian scooters) there was a completely new scooter ... for 6 months it turned into frank trash, despite the fact that the Greeks are very careful about technology. but when instead of the correct alloys they use what I have available, then you will excuse me. I prefer to give money for a used one. Even a dead, but Japanese motorcycle, which I will collect and repair with my own hands. And it will live and live. Than I will give twice for the new Chinese. they have the same thing in tank building. fix one, the second breaks on the go. they are still working on quantity. I won’t be surprised how much if even the old T-55s with their 100 mm rifled cannon burn their tanks. I personally did not expect the best results from their technique.
      5. aba
        +3
        August 16 2016
        the Chinese will bring another copy of Almaty to Alabino.

        But what did not bring a copy of Abrams ?! wink
        1. +5
          August 16 2016
          Who said that this Amer hippo is better than the Chinese type 99 or our T90?
          I do not speak for ARMATU.
          So the Chinese did not bring a replica of a hippopotamus, for its complete uselessness.
          I understand the German tank school, the Chinese and from there take what they need, but here is Amer’s, something not very ..
    2. +6
      August 16 2016
      Given the Chinese metal and the same Chinese heat treatment
      1. jjj
        +24
        August 16 2016
        We must look at things from a different angle. A Chinese tank with a Chinese crew is stably second. All other rivals in Russian tanks are far behind the PLA. So the set of measures by China on armored vehicles justifies itself. And the Chinese are very close to the Russians. In fact, - a game on an equal footing. And if China will offer the world its tanks at dumping prices, the world will buy Chinese. One nuance, it is not known for certain how they behave, and how Chinese tanks survive under real shelling
        1. +4
          August 16 2016
          "However, I am wondering!"
          I represent the Arabs in a Chinese tank, with an Arab craving for servicing equipment ...
          The result will probably be worse than in Russian, I give a tooth!
          They can buy it, but before the first mess.
        2. +2
          August 17 2016
          and why be surprised that the Chinese crews are excellent? The crews have great motivation, the leadership has a huge choice in selecting crews (billion people), I think there is enough money for training. And along the tank - they will bring traction, the suspension will be strengthened (by any means) - at least to improve the tank’s prestige in competitions. But the essence remains - the most militant tanks are still ours - there isn’t any kind of equipment that has such combat experience. and you won’t get it in competitions.
    3. +4
      August 16 2016
      Quote: kugelblitz
      Hodovka T-80 is clearly.
      And here is "foggy" ...
      The rollers are similar, but with cutouts and the rim is thinner, shock absorbers, not telescopic, as on the T-80, but "a, la" T-72, a hybrid track of the T-64 and T-80 ... so that it is "vague"
      1. +1
        August 16 2016
        I agree about the T-64, it has a weak chassis. Having received the task of adapting the T-64 to the B-46, the Urals created their own T-72, eliminating the obvious shortcomings of the chassis!
        1. +2
          August 16 2016
          Quote: andrewkor
          Having received the task to adapt the T-64 to the B-46, the Urals created their own T-72
          belay is complete nonsense. T-72 was designed from scratch, there is only a gun of the same caliber with 64koy. Everything is completely different there, their relative Soviet armor alone. wink
          1. +2
            August 16 2016
            Quote: kirgiz58
            T-72 was designed from scratch, there is only a gun of the same caliber with 64koy.

            Well, in that "delirium" there is a historical truth, the T-72 was created, originally, as a mobilization version of the T-64
            Here is the first sample of this tank "ob. 172" with a T-64 chassis and turret.
    4. +1
      August 16 2016
      It seems, however, dviglo - not that ...
  3. +2
    August 16 2016
    Like everything in the "Chinese" - a car karasiv adnaka, only lamas often, often.
    1. +2
      August 16 2016
      I have a Chinese car. Already 2 years, itself - 2012 onwards I only changed the oil and lamps in the headlights.
      1. +6
        August 16 2016
        Quote: Lanista
        I have a Chinese car. Already 2 years, itself - 2012 onwards I only changed the oil and lamps in the headlights.

        Did you have to ride? If so, what is the mileage?
        1. 0
          August 16 2016
          If not a secret, what brand and model? More or less go geely emgrand, chery tigo, this is at the level of our vases, or modern dear Germans)))
          1. aba
            0
            August 17 2016
            I have a neighbor in the house for several years riding a white Chery Very. I never heard that I would complain.
            1. 0
              August 17 2016
              Quote: aba
              I never heard that I would complain.

              By the age of 5 it will begin to rust.
              And with crash tests there is trouble. Compared to even vases, safety inspires concern
              Quote: kostella85
              it is at the level of our vases, or modern dear Germans)))

              Do you think your car is even more equal to Volkswagen or Opel? I don’t even speak about Audi and BMW
              1. +2
                August 17 2016
                For reference: BMW, MB give a guarantee on their products ONE YEAR, and on the body 5 years (aluminum). The same Lada and uzaviki 5 years. PPC on behi and Merci do not go out and 60 thousand !!! Here is the German quality. Last good Mb-w140, bmw-e38
  4. +25
    August 16 2016
    Thanks to the tank biathlon, the Chinese will bring their tank to mind, in my opinion they do not care about image losses - they do it first of all for themselves.
    1. +4
      August 16 2016
      And here you are wrong! First of all, they strive to win. It is the image. And precisely to expand exports. A mess will ripen - again they will turn to us with a purchase
      Example - Machine-tool factories in China, which produce equipment "not inferior to the best world standards," all are fully equipped with German, Swiss, Japanese equipment. Their - only hand sharpeners.
    2. +2
      August 16 2016
      Do they have their own test tracks? Just among their own to arrange the same competitions on them!
  5. +20
    August 16 2016
    Will NORINCO cope with the current tasks of improving technology and restoring its reputation - time will tell. \\\\
    These are coping, therefore they perform on their technique.
    As they say a chicken pecking a grain.
  6. -11
    August 16 2016
    The tank showed a clear advantage over the t72b. They lost only to ours which, in their own training ground, can ride with their eyes closed. And this despite the breakdown. But childhood diseases of the new technology is not news.
    1. +13
      August 16 2016
      Quote: Kenneth
      The tank showed a clear advantage over the t72b

      - sorry - but what is the "obviousness" of the advantage?
      1. -9
        August 16 2016
        They took second place behind only the owners who knew the training ground. What you do not understand. If a team on another tank defeats almost everyone, this is the advantage of the tank.
        1. +6
          August 16 2016
          Quote: Kenneth
          They took second place behind only the owners who knew the training ground.

          - "nothing", sorry. Poor Kitazzy didn't know the landfill at all? My doubts request

          Quote: Kenneth
          If a team on another tank defeats almost everyone this is the advantage of the tank

          - or crew
          - or tank
          - or both

          And in general, all these races with post-shootings will not be enough to talk about the advantages of any of the cars.

          Toys are everything because Yes
          1. -4
            August 16 2016
            And I think this is a waste of our money. But somehow reluctance to admit that China has a super crew that did almost everything on a crude tank. I’m calmer to believe that their latest tank is slightly better than our very old one, far from the last modernization
        2. +18
          August 16 2016
          Quote: Kenneth
          They lost only to ours which, in their own training ground, can ride with their eyes closed.
          They took second place behind only the owners who knew the training ground.

          For those who are in a helmet))))
          The final configuration of the training ground was completed a few days before the competition. All teams started to test the range at the same time. This is a prerequisite for the competition, so that the host country does not have advantages.
          1. -10
            August 16 2016
            So big and believes in fairy tales.
          2. +1
            August 16 2016
            "so that the host country has no advantages." ////

            To do this, the host country must be neutral: not participate
            in competitions. And the landfill - the route, the target - is unknown in advance by the participant.
            As it was in the Greek tender. And then all showed up numerous schools.

            And, of course, it’s more interesting when countries come in their tanks (like the Chinese),
            and those who do not produce tanks - on those that they have in service.
            1. +1
              August 26 2016
              Shake the Merkava! Or the bells ...
          3. The comment was deleted.
        3. +3
          August 16 2016
          Very controversial statement!
        4. +4
          August 16 2016
          And if in a real battle I won’t bet for a Chinese penniless, a tank biathlon is the TIME formula, and the troops are completely different, in vain the Chinese have taken such a radical approach to modernization, you can introduce another discipline in a tank biathlon 1000 km run like tank RALLY and where will the Chinese be then I don’t know!
          1. -1
            August 16 2016
            Hmm ... here's why they say so for the Chinese, they say they are not worth a penny broken?
            Caps or something decided to throw, the Chinese?
            1000 km mileage, does not solve anything, decides the real combat situation.
            Absolutely unkillable tanks, no.
            Well, except in fantasies, at the expense of magical wunderwaffen ...
            By the way, are you really sure that the Chinese are building their own tangs, do not test them, then they have our school, our Soviet one, in this matter. So you don’t have to deal with ryakvasgasor, the future will show what it costs.
            There are three tank schools in the world = Soviet (Russian), German and American, the Chinese are guided by Soviet (Russian) and German.
            Variations of the Israeli-type are suitable only for their relatively small theater of war, Jurassic, similarly. English .. monst
            1. +1
              August 17 2016
              It’s not easy to explain the hatred for a long time, but that a march for a certain number of kilometers is not a real combat situation, it’s never more militant, but absolutely indestructible tanks, strangely enough, watch a video from Syria or from other hot spots, NO Chinese tanks! If you want to know about the reliability of Chinese technology, buy a Chinese truck.
          2. 0
            August 16 2016
            Quote: 73bor
            where will the Chinese be then I don’t know!


            Much, much farther than the Germans and French were in the Arabian sand and in the Indian jungle.
      2. +1
        August 16 2016
        Well, what are you, right! I would like to throw a beautiful phrase to a person, and you are faulting the meaning of what was said!
        How are the 12 chairs? "You will appreciate the beauty of the game!" bully
    2. PN
      +3
      August 16 2016
      Yeah, in second place. From which then we can conclude: there is a tank, there are no tankers.
    3. +12
      August 16 2016
      The tank showed a clear advantage over the t72b. They lost only to ours which, in their own training ground, can ride with their eyes closed. And this despite the breakdown.

      Let's clarify the situation. The chassis of the tank rained down in a situation where the tank was lightened as much as possible - about 6-7 tons were removed from these rollers. and the chassis still crumbled. Here the article did not post photographs of the surviving rinks on other Chinese tanks. And there is a curious wear of rubber parts.
      Think for yourself - the chassis flew by car, which is a quarter lighter than the T-72. What will the Type 96c really show in a real battle with such shortcomings in terms of control, running and engine compartment?
      1. -4
        August 16 2016
        And our type traveled with dynamic protection and full bk
      2. PKK
        0
        August 16 2016
        In a real battle, we drove out, shot a machine gun and drove back to reload. I don’t see a big load on the rinks here.
        1. +1
          August 17 2016
          in a real battle, refuel took the bk and forward to the mines when there will be a stop, refueling, loading bk and grub (last but not least) for the crew - no one knows including the fathers of the commanders.
    4. 0
      August 16 2016
      Starting a recent flurry of exercises, Shoigu made sure that there were no earlier with closed eyes at his training grounds. If they lose, they will analyze the errors. For this, they also thought of how to trade.
    5. +2
      August 16 2016
      What is the advantage?
      Their tank is basically T72. We couldn't even copy it properly. The chassis is weak. Compare how our tank went and the Chinese one. The front roller is a constructive flaw, if not a mistake (perhaps for the purpose of simplification, unification, or there was a "rationalizer").
  7. +9
    August 16 2016
    The irony here is not very appropriate. There is a normal process of fine-tuning technology and China shows serious progress in this matter. They know how to correct mistakes. There is every reason to believe that in the next competitions we will be tight. If we talk about the sum of running characteristics, they surpass the T-72B3 in speed, and the issues of the LMS are quite solvable.
    But to be honest, this is the buzz of the competition. What is the point of competing if there is no drive to achieve. So what are we waiting for.
    1. +8
      August 16 2016
      In the final, on a straight T-72 quite cheerfully overtook the Chinese.
      1. +9
        August 16 2016
        Something I did not see Type overtake UVZ ... But ours even cut ... like.
    2. 0
      August 16 2016
      I would seriously agree with you if we were talking about "Type 99", not about the 96th ... Talk about a tank that has been in service for more than one year, as about being "in the process of fine-tuning", how weak reasoned ...
    3. +1
      August 17 2016
      the irony is appropriate - a tank adopted (not new, not experienced) in uncomplicated conditions (terrain average standard, climate average standard, medium standard test (shooting, charging, march), tanks not from the military unit were brought in for testing, but the selected one was checked for all parameters, tested.In addition, there were problems at past competitions - they had to play it safe and ......
  8. +5
    August 16 2016
    Our probably will also sharpen equipment for the competition. Still, competition is growing, top-ranking crews are growing in skill.
  9. +20
    August 16 2016
    A certain Lukash Wiesinger published an article in the Czech "Echo24" about ARMY - 2016. As usual, everything is fine with them, everything is bad with us, but I confess I could not resist bringing the conclusion here.
    "You can say anything about Russian propaganda, but it cannot be denied that it has a fundamental influence and promotes extreme loyalty and pride of Russians for their country and their armed forces. Yes, the regime can abuse it, but it does not change anything. In case of war, absolute most Russians would be guaranteed to go into battle and defend their homeland at the cost of their own lives. And, in all honesty, can we today say the same with confidence about the population of all European countries? " http://inosmi.ru/military/20160816/237554492.html
    1. -5
      August 16 2016
      Nothing. The squadrons did not come up yesterday.
      1. 2c1
        -1
        August 16 2016
        And what, in modern conditions, detachments can solve problems?
        1. +1
          August 16 2016
          I advise you not to pay attention to the stupid arguments of a brainwashed humanoid ... Barrage detachments were still in ancient Rome, and Frederick the Great used to say that a soldier should fear his sergeant more than enemy fighters ... Then each sergeant followed his unit, armed with pistols and a protazan (which are not at all convenient when colliding with enemy pikemen and musketeers), as a "detachment", but liberoids simply do not know ...
          1. 0
            August 17 2016
            These are the subjects of the predatory direction, I will continue the Bonaparte guards also drove in front of them any rabble, the "meat of war", but the rude Russian peasantry was alien to freedom of predation and enlightenment justifying aggression, so he beat all the same and Prusaks and "Hranzuz" and Khunhuzes, too, by the way.
      2. 0
        August 16 2016
        Yeah. The experience of ancient Rome is guaranteed ...
    2. 0
      August 16 2016
      Mdya ... Fighters under the five-lane flag are rarely more persistent than under the three lanes ... request
      1. 0
        August 17 2016
        Five-lane combatants are rarely more resilient than three-lane combatants ...

        wink Following your logic, a flag consisting of ONE color, for example scarlet, generally instills immortality in the fighters. wink The Chinese are now really scared)))
  10. +3
    August 16 2016
    The case is single. Most likely an internal material defect. It is necessary to develop and implement a method of non-destructive testing of a failed node. Business for a month, and given the specifics of the Chinese comrades, then for a week.
    1. +2
      August 16 2016
      Quote: Trofim
      The case is single. Most likely an internal material defect. It is necessary to develop and implement a method of non-destructive testing of a failed node. Business for a month, and given the specifics of the Chinese comrades, then for a week.

      ------------------------------------
      You as a technologist argue. The load on the chassis has increased significantly, the article says. The cross sections of the balancers do not correspond to the loads. There is no margin of safety at all if damage to the undercarriage goes on a playful bump.
      1. +2
        August 16 2016
        Look how the running T72 works and how the Type 96, the difference is very noticeable, the designers miscalculated the weight distribution and parry shock absorbers of shock loads on the balancers.
        1. 0
          August 16 2016
          Those. miscalculation at the level of working out the basis of the design. We'll have to recycle the entire suspension, at least ... belay request
  11. +4
    August 16 2016
    In any case, these war games are the best way to show a peaceful mood, as Shoigu said, it is better to fight in tournaments than during the war! The fact that the technology receives new updates is a natural process, which is quite adequate for the situation. This is not an American character to cut a multi-billion dollar budget.
  12. +6
    August 16 2016
    The saddest thing is that they did not see abrams, leopards, merceni ........
    1. +1
      August 16 2016
      I agree. It would be especially interesting to look at leopards. At the same time, I don’t think that all kinds of abrams, leklers, merkavs and chieftains with challengers would have shown themselves well in biathlon ... It’s painfully heavy and slow ...
  13. -2
    August 16 2016
    Quote: geek2101
    Give the term a couple of years and the Chinese will bring another copy of Almaty to Alabino.
    These guys are smart. laughing


    - And she, too, will have problems with the rink, or even the gun will fall off during firing ...) These Chinese - they only produce "china", is there at least one of their copied products, which in terms of performance characteristics and their combination is better than the original?
    1. 0
      August 16 2016
      Regarding such sophistication, I usually say: "It looks almost like a real one! Only a fake tomato cannot be replaced ..."
    2. +1
      August 17 2016
      Russia had problems with equipment — the refusal of a heavy machine gun (2 times) in the team race.
  14. +4
    August 16 2016
    It seems to me that, having rested on increasing engine power, the Chinese designers lost sight of (or considered sufficient) the safety margin of the transmission, and the increased load moments led to breakdown. They will recount, bring and will be cutting next year, where due to speed characteristics they may have a real chance at the 1 place (if they are not smeared again).
    1. 0
      August 16 2016
      Yeah, well, yes ... Only such calculations are usually called "deep modernization" in technology ... And where to put everything previously stamped? To Pakistan?
  15. +1
    August 16 2016
    It would be interesting to see the t-80u at the competitions. Or UVZ will lay bones, but will not let?
    It seems that Cyprus had about 80 units. They should be invited.
    I wonder what would the Chinese say then?
    1. +2
      August 16 2016
      And what U-shki would you be interested to see? If it’s clean, then after the first ford (with such a way of overcoming), it will become a stake, because the gas turbine engine does not tolerate water entering the MTO. And if UD, then I doubt very much that it will bypass the Chinese in terms of reliability, especially in the engine. These tanks in Kantemirovka did not even begin to be subjected to secondary repair, but simply decommissioned (due to the capriciousness of the 6TDF engine).
    2. +3
      August 16 2016
      The T-80U was when at a tender for Greece. competed with
      Abrams, Leo-2, LeClerk.
      His running proved to be excellent, both on the march and in
      overcoming obstacles. But the shooting ...
      Only at close range was good, at medium and long - lost
      competitors, and at night - a complete blockage.
      Leo-2 won then, but the Greeks never bought anything recourse .
    3. 0
      August 16 2016
      The T-80U was when at a tender for Greece. competed with
      Abrams, Leo-2, LeClerk.
      His running proved to be excellent, both on the march and in
      overcoming obstacles. But the shooting ...
      Only at close range was good, at medium and long - lost
      competitors, and at night - a complete blockage.
      Leo-2 won then, but the Greeks never bought anything recourse .
      1. +6
        August 16 2016
        Near, medium and long distances is how much? 2000-2500 with 80s, if only to find the target and not to confuse fingers (metering-shot-dump), with properly prepared weapons. And even I will choose where to put the hull, tower, left, right. It is useless to shoot more than 3000 in a moving tank, if you also find it.
  16. +1
    August 16 2016
    last time, the Chinese tank broke, this time it broke ... our tankers in a news interview joked that Chinese tanks go ... but it's still Chinese go ... but, despite the fact that the technology is stubbed from us and the West, but it is assembled by Chinese hands-hooks
  17. +1
    August 16 2016
    The Chinese have not yet caught up with the Russian Federation in tank building. Now, Chinese tanks are only catching up with our performance. But practice is another matter. But in practice, the Chinese have yet to refine a lot. Especially in the issue of quality and use in hostilities. The quality of training of Chinese tankers is also questionable, especially considering the fact that PLA tankers did not participate in recent wars.
  18. 0
    August 16 2016
    I did not watch biathlon. How was the shooting there?
    Who shot better, the Chinese or the Russians?
    1. -1
      August 16 2016
      All worthy of firing.
      How is AOI ready to put its carrots on biathlon?
      1. +4
        August 16 2016
        It would be interesting. I am for.
        1. -1
          August 16 2016
          Let them drive a cool one with balls on chains.
          1. +8
            August 16 2016
            I would even paint the balls laughing - in different colors to make it more fun.
          2. The comment was deleted.
    2. +4
      August 16 2016
      I was the thirteenth, I watched both the Suvorov onslaught and the final stage of biathlon.
      I want to say that both the Chinese and ours were at the same level, in terms of the number of targets hit, but the Chinese fired more accurately, basically they hit precisely at the center of the target. And if it weren’t for the rink, in my opinion, the Chinese would be the first. But for that and team competitions, the crew consists of four members and the tank is the same member of the team. so they couldn’t mean they couldn’t. And Belarusians were not lucky, they had problems with a sight, while it was already late
      1. 0
        August 16 2016
        And at what distance is 1800, as last time?
        1. +1
          August 16 2016
          1,6,1,7,1,8 km, in principle, is enough for ZapTVD.
          1. +4
            August 16 2016
            For Europe, maybe.
            For the Middle East - not enough. At 3 - 3,5 km here - calmly
            on a motionless target.
            1. -1
              August 16 2016
              Well for t90 and five km, no problem.
              1. +1
                August 16 2016
                5 km is a problem for everyone. Day Optic
                the tank’s sight doesn’t see so much.
                1. +3
                  August 16 2016
                  Our tankers claim to see. And since the pros say, and I have no objection to them, then they see and fall.
                  The 1A45 complex provides an increase in the effective firing range and an increase in the range of vision at night, including through the installation of a television sight in the tank. A complex of guided weapons with a laser-beam control channel allows firing a guided missile through the gun’s barrel from a place and on the move at fixed and moving targets at ranges from 100 to 5000 m.The missile with a cumulative warhead is effective against armored targets and low-flying helicopters. The rocket launched through the barrel penetrates 700 mm of homogeneous armor at a distance of 4000 meters, i.e. gives the T-90 the ability to attack other tanks and helicopters before they can attack MBT.
                  1. +1
                    August 16 2016
                    Yes, the Chinese still have to work on their tanks
              2. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  19. 0
    August 16 2016
    They know how to copy, and iron is not what they need. They most likely need research institutes.
  20. +1
    August 16 2016
    The Chinese crew on the Type 96B showed a certain advantage over their rivals in speed and dynamic performance. However, in the future, the parameters of the tanks began to decline, negatively affecting the results of the races. Probably, the new power plant of increased power did not manage to pass the whole complex of tests in various conditions and the necessary refinement, which did not allow maintaining the characteristics at the required level throughout all competitions.

    And if you don’t wag your tail and say it bluntly, then the engines burned out in a few hours of competition.
  21. -2
    August 16 2016
    The quick-eyed tankers conscripts. Not a pro. And the Chinese have a type 99. with the Maybakhovsky engine, correctly of course differently, with 1500 horses and with good electronics. Well, the production of type 101 has also begun, which can be with one or two tankers, or a drone. You can laugh at the enemy as much as you like, but you will have to cry for the rest of your life.
  22. +2
    August 16 2016
    Quote: Verdun
    In the veins of the Chinese tank building Russian blood flows. Not so much because the Chinese are copying our tanks, but for the reason that it was our designers and manufacturers who once laid the foundation of this tank building base. Therefore, it is not worth saying that their tanks are slag. This means that ours too.

    Actually, it doesn’t. I will not tire of repeating that the Chinese material science and metallurgy are not at a particularly high level - this is a fact. If Soviet / Russian tanks were repeatedly bombarded in hostilities around the world (and proved to be very good), how Chinese tanks behave in real hostilities, what are the practical properties of their reservations, the reliability of engines, transmissions - nobody knows. Only the boastful statements of NORINCO are known, reaching the point of absurdity.

    However, these competitions show that even specially prepared vehicles, not mass production models, break down repeatedly, which suggests that in production vehicles these breakdowns, especially during heavy use in battle, will be much greater.
    Therefore, it is not necessary to equate our tank construction with the Chinese and make such strange statements.
    1. +3
      August 20 2016
      Exactly. Their "school" is lame on both legs. They very famously violate the heat treatment technology. They violate the recipe of steel grades (have you seen a rusting "stainless steel"? Have I seen it).
  23. +3
    August 16 2016
    Quote: Free Wind
    The quick-eyed tankers conscripts. Not a pro. And the Chinese have a type 99. with the Maybakhovsky engine, correctly of course differently, with 1500 horses and with good electronics. Well, the production of type 101 has also begun, which can be with one or two tankers, or a drone. You can laugh at the enemy as much as you like, but you will have to cry for the rest of your life.

    No one is inclined to laugh at the Chinese, why do you write this, I do not know. The flaws in their tanks are visible, and this is discussed. As for the "cry", I am 100% sure that the Chinese are much more reasonable in their plans than you are in your assumptions, and are not going to commit suicide by attacking Russia. Which does not negate the need for our complete readiness for defense anywhere.
  24. +3
    August 16 2016
    Quote: The Bloodthirster
    Well for t90 and five km, no problem.

    If only ATGM. Other types of shots - 2500 edge.
    1. +1
      August 16 2016
      Yes, even ATGM, is it bad? ABRAMS ATGM shoots? Leopard? Leclerc?
      1. +2
        August 16 2016
        Merkava shoots. There is such a rocket through the trunk of LAHAT.
        But they refused it. The missile is weak compared to 150 ATGMs like Cornet or Toe,
        driving it with a laser throughout the flight is inconvenient. This is the past.
        1. +2
          August 16 2016
          Well, your past is not very interesting, so yours do not know how to do what they do with us. Only .. However, the competition in power and types of ammunition used, sighting systems, and in general MPS, was and will be, something is better with us, something better with you.
          1. 0
            August 16 2016
            Ehehehe ... how pathetic those who minus look, without trying to justify their own ... well, in general, it’s clear that.
  25. 0
    August 16 2016
    I saw how our tormented with a heavy machine gun, pulled something frantically, tried to reload. Who knows what it is ????
  26. -2
    August 16 2016
    -Something strange ... -The Chinese tank "lost" the roller, and this tank, as if nothing had happened, continued to roll along the highway ... -So it's the other way around ... -characterizes it as a mechanism that can perform the task, having lost some of the components ... -That in battle this Chinese tank (God forbid against Russia) will lose the roller and ... and continue to carry out its combat missions ... -This also speaks of the high survivability of Chinese military equipment ... -It's a plus, not a minus ...
    -And again, the eternal question ... -Well, and against whom China can use all this armored vehicles ..?
    - Against Vietnam ..? India ..? -Afghanistan ..? -Laos ..? - Thailand ..? -Butane ..? -It is hardly rational and convenient to use all this Chinese armada there ...
    -That's what remains ... -Mongolia and Kazakhstan, standing on the way to Russia ... and the border of Russia itself ... -That's where all these innumerable "trained armored cars" will be aimed ... - "It's hard in learning ... -easy in battle "... -There are the Chinese and" prepare properly "... Little joy ...
    1. +3
      August 16 2016
      If he could fully perform the task, then the Chinese would not change him. Even with a serviceable running tank at a turn it can "take off his shoes", especially on a loose slope, and here is clearly a weakened caterpillar.
    2. 0
      August 30 2016
      you forget that China needs to be stronger than its neighbors in fact.
      And also create potential that excludes serene aggression from the United States and the Russian Federation. This roughly corresponds to the scale of the current army of China.
      They correctly move from strength to equipment.
      And this is not an army of invasion and control, but only mobile forces to maintain confidence at the borders. What will happen next is a question. But now, China has focused on controlling trade routes by sea and fighting for influence in Africa.
      Not to land armadas now there.
  27. 0
    August 16 2016
    Quote: olena
    -And again, the eternal question ... -Well, and against whom China can use all this armored vehicles ..?
    - Against Vietnam ..? India ..? -Afghanistan ..? -Laos ..? - Thailand ..? -Butane ..? -It is hardly rational and convenient to use all this Chinese armada there ...
    -That's what remains ... -Mongolia and Kazakhstan, standing on the way to Russia ... and the border of Russia itself ... -That's where all these innumerable "trained armored cars" will be aimed ... - "It's hard in learning ... -easy in battle "... -Here are the Chinese and" preparing "... Little joy ...


    But for this, there is nuclear weapons. and he does not care for 6 Chinese tanks, or 6 million.
  28. +2
    August 16 2016
    The sofa tankers are in the majority here. Losing a skating rink is not critical. When firing on the spot, "limping" the tank to the side of the lost roller creates difficulties for the stabilizer. And the tension of the caterpillar changes, which threatens it with a "reset" - and nothing more. Shooting from the spot and flanking could continue without a rink. The Chinese team was reinsured. Perhaps, in the rules, something was stipulated by those. condition of cars during the competition. It is also time to stop the mantras about Chinese backwardness and "Chinese" quality. Walk around your house, see - made in where everything in your house is done. If the old, - in the USSR, if the new - China. Not respecting a competitor or rival - not respecting yourself. So, somehow I think.
    1. +6
      August 16 2016
      Just "limping" neither the stabilizer, nor the ballistic computer, nor the fire control system (FCS) as a whole does not create any difficulties. Difficulties will arise when driving; there is a high probability of taking off your shoes on a turn or slope, it is impossible to overcome the escarpment - it will turn you around, plus the constant pull to the left, which is very difficult to parry in the absence of visibility. If the Chinese continued to compete on the damaged one, they would have lost not 2 minutes, but 15-20 minutes, and even the Belarusians bypassed them. If that I'm not a couch. hi
    2. 0
      August 30 2016
      you do not know Asian mentality laughing
      they were not "reinsured" The fact is that resourcefulness and initiative are not very popular in Asia. They prefer to follow the instructions.
  29. 0
    August 16 2016
    Quote: kirgiz58
    Just "limping" neither the stabilizer, nor the ballistic computer, nor the fire control system (FCS) as a whole does not create any difficulties. Difficulties will arise when driving; there is a high probability of taking off your shoes on a turn or slope, it is impossible to overcome the escarpment - it will turn you around, plus the constant pull to the left, which is very difficult to parry in the absence of visibility. If the Chinese continued to compete on the damaged one, they would have lost not 2 minutes, but 15-20 minutes, and even the Belarusians bypassed them. If that I'm not a couch. hi

    I agree, but I was referring rather to "combat" conditions. Of course, when "limping", apart from the vertical oscillations of the gun, the pins are also skewed (for which there is an amendment in the MSA), but this does not add accuracy to the shooting. I’m just here, I’m advocating against the "shapkozakidatelstva". Not everything is so great with us and not everything is so bad with the Chinese. (By the way, with the DShK, we have never had any problems with firing delays, this is me about "shooting single at a" helicopter "with twitching the shutter after each shot). And I will not cease to assert that, all other things being equal, the qualifications and coherence of the crew are in the first place.
  30. +1
    August 16 2016
    Quote: ingenera
    By the way, with the DShK, we never had problems with firing delays,
    Yes, DShK is our "zinger". The cliff isn't bad either. I think this is the result of overcoming a ford, the water is still there
    1. +1
      August 17 2016
      just the same rock and failed. capricious car, not designed for long work, afraid of dirt. What happened to the competition?
      1. 0
        August 26 2016
        The Kazakhs release Utes. In Uralsk. Even I know the exact place. Let’s ask - .. Nonsense. Correct and timely service.
  31. 0
    August 16 2016
    Do not underestimate the Chinese.
  32. +2
    August 17 2016
    Here are the results of copying the constructor, they don’t understand how it works and what this or that skew in the design leads to. Western designers are constantly talking about our weapons. Overweight has an increased margin of safety from their point of view, this is a minus we have another school. The Chinese campaign went along their path, simplified something somewhere easier, and now, why do you need it here is the result. And you don’t need to extol the Chinese, it’s just a compilation of everything, so they work with electronics and technology. Believe me, if we had so many Western factories with their technologies and the possibility of copying them insolently to the extent that the same plant is just counterfeit and they go to a licensed internship and we would have done it. No one gives us neither to buy car factories nor super computers ATS telephone exchanges of high power and everything is possible for China. Of us made Ukraine, so think about who are the democracies and who are for us and who are against.
    1. +2
      August 17 2016
      Quote: Sasha75
      . No one gives us neither to buy car factories nor super computers ATS telephone exchanges of high power and everything is possible for China.

      Come on, do you know how China attracted investors? He organized sites for the construction of factories, summed up roads and all communications, and then invited Western firms. What prevented us from doing too? But no, we have to give each bureaucrat a kickback, and they will bring you electricity for two years. The capitalists are led to this and cheap labor, and now they bite their elbows. Remember the recent strikes at Japanese car factories in China when they got into a conflict over the islands. The Japanese vividly backtracked.
      1. 0
        August 30 2016
        China put 15 years to create a comfortable business environment.
        Plus, a convenient climate, geographical location, a huge market and cheap slave. power. Now it’s easier to conduct business there than in Russia.
  33. +2
    August 17 2016
    Quote: ingenera
    The sofa tankers are in the majority here. Losing a skating rink is not critical. When firing on the spot, "limping" the tank to the side of the lost roller creates difficulties for the stabilizer. And the tension of the caterpillar changes, which threatens it with a "reset" - and nothing more. Shooting from the spot and flanking could continue without a rink. The Chinese team was reinsured. Perhaps, in the rules, something was stipulated by those. condition of cars during the competition.

    Critical is not the loss of the rink in the functional sense, but the very fact of this loss, even on specially prepared equipment in the sense of the quality of this equipment itself.

    It is also time to stop the mantras about Chinese backwardness and "Chinese" quality. Walk around your house, see - made in where everything in your house is done. If the old, - in the USSR, if the new - China. Not respecting a competitor or rival - not respecting yourself. So, somehow I think.

    Do you want to walk around the workshops in China? You will find at least something of means of production made in China?

    Why, by the way, are you talking about disrespect? Where did you get it from? Bare facts and their statement. Do you think that you need to jump up and shout: “How great the Chinese technique is! Beautiful, reliable and modern !! ” Where do you get your writings about disrespect, mantras and so on?
  34. 0
    August 17 2016
    Quote: The Bloodthirster
    Yes, even ATGM, is it bad? ABRAMS ATGM shoots? Leopard? Leclerc?

    Abrams - no. Leopard shoots Israeli LAHAT, which colleague Voyak Uh recalled. Leclerc - no, but something like that was being developed for him at one time.
  35. 0
    August 17 2016
    China is now going through a period like the USSR when the production of the T-64/72 began. New car, heavy metal loads, more powerful engines. I think they will put on the conveyor debug metal production, in 10 years there will be a T-90 type workhorse. What they themselves cannot do, they will invite the Ukrainians. Technology is in the public domain.
  36. 0
    August 20 2016
    By the way, you won't be able to increase engine power just like that. The increase in dynamic performance leads to increased loads on the suspension and tracks. And on the instrument part in the tank itself, since vibrations and shocks (shocks) will increase during the "breakdown" of the shock absorbers. The reputational risks of the Chinese are extremely high.
    But why didn’t they even bring us to the T-90 demonstration performances?
  37. 0
    August 21 2016
    "A tank designed specifically for TB competition." From the media. How shoud I understand this? COMBAT vehicles compete, not "easier, faster, further."
  38. 0
    August 21 2016
    I don't know ... I had to serve on the T-80U. The engine is 1250 gas turbine mares. Whatever they say and write in the instructions, the ensign dispersed him along the highway for a hundred, on the ground up to 90. The car is a beast !!! Where there is a narrow-film with all their "types" ...
    1. 0
      August 30 2016
      I talked with a lieutenant who served on the t80U.
      according to him 90+ the tank was gaining only along the highway from a hill
  39. +1
    August 21 2016
    One more thing. A bit off topic. I am always amused by "historical" opuses about what the Chinese have invented mustache. And gunpowder, and a compass, and even g @ ndona. Toko is bad luck. For the last 200 years they have not invented ANYTHING. But they all scurry at the pro level. May Cheburashka forgive me ....)))
    Here from the same topic and all their "types".
  40. +1
    August 25 2016
    Quote: kostella85
    For reference: BMW, MB give a guarantee on their products ONE YEAR, and on the body 5 years (aluminum). The same Lada and uzaviki 5 years. PPC on behi and Merci do not go out and 60 thousand !!! Here is the German quality. Last good Mb-w140, bmw-e38

    I have 39 bodywork - mileage 280000, and E 70 - mileage 186000, automatic machines, there were no problems at the moment)
  41. 0
    August 30 2016
    To some extent, I admire the Chinese. They act clumsily, but purposefully. Although their tanks are not the best, technical solutions are sometimes paradoxically primitive, but they already have to be considered.

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