Turkey will help Russia "enter" into NATO

90
After the consent of Russian President Vladimir Putin to accept the Turkish president in St. Petersburg, the question was actively discussed: what goal does the Kremlin set for itself? In fairness, I must say that a similar question appeared on the agenda at the very moment when the Iranian media published materials according to which Erdogan, thanks to his rescue during an attempted military rebellion in Turkey, is obliged to thank Russia. Namely, Russian intelligence, which, according to Iranian sources, transmitted to Erdogan information that he was in mortal danger at a resort hotel in Marmaris. The question “why?” Looked and continues to look very relevant, especially given the fact that all the time Mr. Erdogan in Russia has been associated with the accomplice of the terrorists and the main cause of the tragedy with the Russian Su-24 last fall (2015) of the year.

The largest “number of votes” gained the version according to which Russia begins a large-scale geopolitical game, the final result of which is Turkey’s withdrawal from the North Atlantic alliance. The main argument in favor of this was voiced and voiced as follows: The United States is not eager to issue a preacher Fethullah Gülen at the request of official Ankara, whom Erdogan announced as the main organizer of the attempted coup d'état in Turkey. As an indirect evidence that Turkey would have nothing more to do in NATO, the situation was presented with the NATO airbase Incirlik, which is actively exploited by the US Air Force and which was one of the most important components in organizing a coup in Turkey. They say that if Erdogan began to turn off the "light" from the Americans on the basis of Incirlik, and at the same time put in place American generals, then Turkey is about to leave the North Atlantic alliance.

It was noticed that a similar version was immediately picked up by the Western media, calling Vladimir Putin’s contacts with Erdogan “the Kremlin’s victory aimed at Turkey’s withdrawal from NATO”.

Certainly, from a philistine point of view, if Erdogan had risen to the podium and said the words that Turkey was leaving the western military bloc, this could well be regarded as a “Kremlin victory”. However, such a victory looks too local, and therefore it can be assumed that a new game (or even “friendship”) with Ankara with a view to its withdrawal from NATO would hardly be worth the candle that was burned earlier (as well as bridges and other things). There is a version that the stakes are much higher, and the distribution of these bets is such that in any case, the western “partners” can get on the Russian chess “fork”.

To clarify what is at stake, it is worth recalling about certain events of the past few days. As is known, the generals of the erdoganov "purge" of the general staff of the Turkish Armed Forces visited Russia with a working visit. Together with these generals, a man visited Russia, whose visit looks no less sensational than the visit of the Turkish president. This person is Hakan Fidan, who has headed the Turkish National Intelligence Agency (MIT) since 2010. Warning: from 2010 year! That is, Hakan Fidan, who, if you follow the official Turkish interpretation and statements of the Iranian media, actually missed the conspiracy against Erdogan, not only remained at the helm of Turkish intelligence, but also ended up in a delegation consisting mainly of “filtered” military officials. It's about the delegation that visited Russia. In general, Erdogan “filtered out” hundreds of generals of the Defense Ministry and representatives of the Turkish intelligence agencies, and the overwhelming majority of those who did not pass the “filtration” also declared the enemies of the Turkish people, but did not touch Fidan as a result. The man, who had passed the training and the initial stage of the military coup, was returned to his former position, despite the outwardly seen unambiguous "unsuccessful" in the professional activity.



Against this background, it is impossible not to mention another event in which the name of Hakan Fidan appeared in recent days. This event is a statement by the Iranian authorities about the need to create a trilateral group (Russia, Iran and Turkey) to resolve the situation in Syria. Moreover, Iran proposes to create this group not only on the basis of the employees of the foreign affairs agencies, but also with the involvement of intelligence agencies. After the appearance of this kind of news from Iran, statements by the Turkish side began to emerge that it was ready to maintain contacts with Russia and Iran to control several parts of the border with the Syrian province of Idlib. And these are the areas where the militant traffic has recently reached a peak. At least two conclusions can be drawn from these statements. First: Previously, Turkey was clearly not eager to control sections of the border with Syria with the traffic of terrorists so that traffic would be nullified. Second, now there is the possibility of joint (that is - quite real) control of the border Turkish-Syrian zones.

So where does Hakan Fidan and Russia's global stakes come from? And despite the fact that Fidan is a person who at one time managed to establish Ankara’s peaceful dialogue with the Kurdistan Workers ’Party. The result of this dialogue (as well as Fidan’s personal meeting with Abdullah Ocalan) was several years of real peace in Turkey - without mutual attacks by Turkish security officials and PKK representatives.

At the same time, Hakan Fidan, as the head of national intelligence, who “missed” the attempted coup d'etat, simply could not be, by definition, not at all. Whether the whole plan of the coup or its parts could easily go through the structure of Fidan, as well as through himself. Based on this, Erdogan could have put the head of MIT first “against the wall”. But the whole point is that Fidan is a) a valuable shot from the point of view of contacts with the Kurds, b) Fidan knows too much about the western "partners" of Turkey in the NATO format, c) the head of MIT knows too much about the Syrian conflict .

Whether it was Russia that “advised” Erdogan not to remove the head of MIT from his post - the question is still open. However, this is not so important. The main thing is that a person who is very (to be emphasized - VERY) knows a great deal at once in several areas of activity of a NATO member country that interest Russia remains at his post. Speaking directly, thanks to such personnel as Hakan Fidan, for some time reliably taken as Faberge, not Turkey leaves NATO, but Russia enters there ... And, of course, figuratively, as a player who obviously becomes aware of the whole direction of the North Atlantic alliance and its main player - the United States. Well, it is just that the main Turkish intelligence officer, who hardly allowed the “blunder”, will play the role of the red partisan and be silent ... The fact that Mr. Fidan plays a completely different role is indicated by the fact that he is returned to office and is in contact with the intelligence services of those countries , from which the American "friends" of Turkey have the strongest tremor. It is clear that for the same USA Fidan is a cut off piece, but how much raisin is in this slice for Russian geopolitical interests ...
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  1. +13
    August 16 2016
    Politics and geopolitics is a big game. It is impossible to win, but to lose is real.
    1. +5
      August 16 2016
      Quote: Teberii
      Politics and geopolitics is a big game

      - exactly

      Quote: Teberii
      Impossible to win, but to lose is quite real

      - what is itt nonsense means? And why then "play politics and geopolitics" at all?
      1. +47
        August 16 2016
        Quote: Cat Man Null
        what does this nonsense mean? And why then "play politics and geopolitics" at all?

        Politics is a big card table, because of which a player cannot get up and leave with a gain and is forced to constantly play, with players constantly sitting down, in exchange for those who have gone bankrupt and lost in the dust. But a loser and with debts - it may well turn out to be.
        The trouble for the Western world is that Russia is still not leaving.
        So see?
        The essence of the game is to stay in the game.
        1. +1
          August 16 2016
          Quote: insular
          Politics is a big card table ...

          - there is such a model of this phenomenon

          Quote: insular
          ... a table from which the player cannot get up and leave with a win and is forced to constantly play

          - this is with what fright? Locally, for some time, the player (state, politician) may well be in the black
          - globally ... but what is - globally? Power over the whole world, and the surrounding universe to boot? Yes, this is impossible. Only no one needs it, and none of the "realpolitiks" sets such a goal for themselves

          Quote: insular
          But losers and with debts - may well

          - this is no longer "he left", it is "he is gone", sorry ...

          Quote: insular
          The essence of the game is to stay in the game

          - nonsense. The essence of the game is to win. Or at least complicate the position of the "worst partners", thus "raising" themselves Yes

          In general, when the "couch" people begin to seriously talk about politics, for some reason I remember the "pike vests" of Ilf and Petrov:

          - Briand is the head ...
          - and Snowden is also the head ...


          That's something like laughing
          1. +7
            August 16 2016
            Cat Man Null (3)

            I practically agree with you on everything, but here it is-
            Power over the whole world, and the surrounding Universe in addition? Yes, this is impossible
            ??
            You, please, do not talk to Babam and Wow Clintonshe. They believe, sincerely believe. recourse wassat
            1. -2
              August 16 2016
              Quote: Smog
              I practically agree with you on everything, but here it is-
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              Power over the whole world, and the surrounding Universe in addition? Yes, this is impossible

              You are not talking about this, please, to Babam and Wow Clintonshe. They believe, sincerely believe

              - there it was:

              Quote: Cat Man Null
              Only no one needs it, and none of the "realpolitiks" sets such a goal for themselves

              - The characters you listed do not apply to real politicians. IMHO, yes Yes
              1. +5
                August 16 2016
                Quote: Teberii
                Politics and geopolitics is a big game. It is impossible to win, but to lose is real.


                The main thing is not to let the "partners" win, but to be able to balance and concern them.
                1. +8
                  August 16 2016
                  Just about this, and then they started a wit debate (game, cards, win, not lose, weaken ... the essence-suck) ...
                  1. 0
                    August 16 2016
                    hi
                    "Turkey will help Russia" enter "NATO" ...
                    The classics have long given an answer to these assumptions -

              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. +5
                August 16 2016
                Cat Man Null (3) - the characters you have listed do not apply to real policies.

                Following your logic, they are virtual rulers.
                Well then, the states come out a virtual country. The point of view is certainly interesting, but, IMHO, I think it’s not correct. They deploy the real missile defense system in the geyrop. Yes, and the rest of the weapons seem to float, fly and shoot quite real hi wink
              4. +2
                August 16 2016
                - The characters you listed do not apply to real politicians. IMHO


                I understand what you want to say, but this is a degree of categorization. A politician who has contributed to the development of civilization becomes a historical person. Peace, prosperity, development. Effective administration of these concepts is a policy task. A politician sowing discord, crises, lies, awakening base instincts, justifying crimes, probably not a politician, but a character real. Like a man who called himself a turner, but re-spoiled all the workpieces and, at the end, a broken machine. Do you have a definition of such a person?
            2. 0
              August 16 2016
              Quote: Smog
              You, please, do not talk to Babam and Wow Clintonshe. They believe, sincerely believe.

              In fact, the United States does not want power over the whole world because if you own everything, you will have to feed everyone shoes and explain why everything is fine in one part of your possessions, and in the other people are starving and dying of dehydration.
              In order not to create hotbeds of tension inside - create hotbeds of tension outside, well, plus capitalism in action - why rob a person (state) at the same time after receiving 100%, when you can milk for years and get 300-500%.
            3. PPD
              0
              August 16 2016
              Quote: Smog

              You, please, do not talk to Babam and Wow Clintonshe. They believe, sincerely believe. recourse wassat

              Watching them, I have recently been wondering if they can, no, not think, even read. Such an impression, no. Obama caught the fly in one easy motion. The Yankees are probably proud of their president. Here they say how well done, dexterous. As with Clinton, I don’t know with this question, probably also an order. wassat
              In a nightmare, Putin does not dream of catching flies either in life or in front of television cameras.
          2. +3
            August 16 2016
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            Power over the whole world, and the surrounding universe to boot? Yes, this is impossible. Only no one needs it, and none of the "realpolitiks" sets such a goal for themselves

            I will not say about the Universe, this is your speculation, and to rule over the world is the goal of our "partners", that is, the states. Is this the first time you've heard of this? Obama has made such statements on several occasions. And not only him.
            1. 0
              August 16 2016
              Quote: EvgNik
              ... to dominate the world - this is the goal of our "partners", that is, the states. Is this the first time you've heard of this? Obama has made such statements on several occasions. And not only him

              - Obama ("and not only him") can declare whatever his heart desires
              - well aware that the goal is unattainable
              - in cards, this is called bluffing. In politics - I don’t remember, but also somehow, um ... called laughing
              1. +6
                August 16 2016
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                - in cards, this is called bluffing.

                If. But the whole state policy, the wars unleashed by them, show that this is not a bluff but a reality that someone does not want to see. If (suppose) they manage to defeat Russia, the whole world will be in their pocket. And this is no longer a bluff.
                1. -2
                  August 16 2016
                  Quote: EvgNik
                  all state policies, wars unleashed by them, show that this is not a bluff but a reality that someone does not want to see

                  - stop stop
                  - Which of the US wars won? Not in form, but in essence only (meaning control over the territory, resources etc ..)
                  - who is there "does not want (something) to see"? wink

                  Quote: EvgNik
                  If (suppose) they manage to defeat Russia, the whole world will be in their pocket. And this is no longer a bluff

                  - if (suppose) the Earth flies on its own axis ... continue, or is it already clear?

                  That's about as Yes
                  1. +6
                    August 16 2016
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    - Which of the US wars won? Not in form, but in essence only (meaning control over the territory, resources etc ..)
                    - someone who "does not want (something) in

                    Cote-Manual (user)) .., and in which wars (the Yankees) did not reach their vile-imperial interests?
                    1. -7
                      August 16 2016
                      Quote: Vitwin
                      Quote: Cat Man Null
                      - Which of the US wars won? Not in form, but in essence only (meaning control over the territory, resources etc ..)
                      - someone who "does not want (something) in

                      Cote-Manual (user)) .., and in which wars (the Yankees) did not reach their vile-imperial interests?

                      - you are a duplicate EvgNik?
                      - We do have ... "originally from Odessa", no? And they are similar ... wink
                      - In short, Victor ... if you have nothing to say - go ... in peace Yes
                      1. +3
                        August 16 2016
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        - In short, Victor ... if you have nothing to say - go ... in peace

                        God bless you .. (baptized hope) Roman? in the sense of amen)))
                2. +1
                  August 16 2016
                  Quote: EvgNik
                  If. But the whole state policy, the wars unleashed by them, show that this is not a bluff but a reality that someone does not want to see. If (suppose) they manage to defeat Russia, the whole world will be in their pocket. And this is no longer a bluff.



                  Hmm ... There is still China on the siding ... A pretty good brake on the achievement of the goal and role of the world sovereign and benefactor ...

                  But Russia and China together, without any bluff, could achieve a lot ...
                  In his speech at the CCP congress, Xi Jinping even didn’t hint, but spoke directly about the need for an alliance between the PRC and the Russian Federation in confronting the United States and the West ...
          3. +8
            August 16 2016
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            The essence of the game is to win

            Think narrow-headed. You reason like a schoolboy who has not suffered from maximalism.
            What makes you think that everyone is eager to dominate the world? And is this the end in itself of the "game"?
            Here the "game" is the life and history of the state. It's a metaphor, you know.

            Yes, some countries set themselves such a goal (domination), but if history shows anything, it is the fact that it is precisely these “masters of the world” who, first of all, come out of the “table” and leave, one way.

            And understanding of the rules of the game is the main difference between US and THEM, and this is our Russian mentality - humanization in the common world, on an equal footing. and this is exactly what the Russian Land stands on - on the attitude of nationalities.
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            In general, when the "couch" people begin to seriously talk about politics, for some reason I remember the "pike vests" of Ilf and Petrov:
            Your aggressiveness, once again convinces me that you are either stupid or just young. Both, of course, are not a vice, but you have to be somehow more tolerant of other people's opinions and try to use the word "delirium" less often. And yes, I don't care about your sofa.
            1. -3
              August 16 2016
              Quote: insular
              And an understanding of the rules of the game and there is the main difference between us and them, and this is our Russian mentality - humanization in the common world, on equal terms. and this is exactly what the Russian Land stands on - on the attitude of nationalities

              - you speak nonsense. There are also many people on the "other side" who quite understand the rules of the "game"
              - about "humanism, equal rights" and so on - it was very good for the Strugatskys (Vititsky, more precisely)

              Quote: http://books.rusf.ru/unzip/xussr_s/strugb01.htm?40/46
              Fear. Only fear rules this world. And nothing but. Do not fool yourself or me. And do not speak with me, please, about exploits, about valor, about glory. About honor, valor and heroism. About the mind, honor and conscience. About the beauty that will save the world. And about the seven righteous. And about the irony of pity. And about mercy-kindness ...
              ... And please do not tell me about the madness of the brave. And about
              despised penniless cosiness. And about the faith-hope-love and their mother - Sophia. And about
              the eternal values ​​of culture, about roots-leaves, about blood-soil. And even about
              Orthodoxy, autocracy, nationality, you do not interpret me ... And for the sake of
              Lord God do not convince me that honesty is the best policy, which is not for
              fear, they say, but for conscience and that the people yearned for seven, damn it,
              to the righteous ... SEVEN BOWL OF Wrath! AND SEVEN LAST ULCERS! Seven arguments, seven
              symbols of the last faith ... FEAR. Only fear. And nothing but fear ...

              Quote: insular
              Here the "game" is the life and history of the state. It's a metaphor you know

              - thanks, Cap good
              - You read inattentively:

              Quote: Cat Man Null
              The essence of the game is to win. Or at least complicate the position of the "worst partners", thus "raising" themselves

              - everything seems to be clearly written, in black in Russian ... I don’t even know how to chew you yet request

              Quote: insular
              Your aggressiveness once again convinces me that you are either stupid or just young

              - yeah, exactly ... we are fools, only from the plow ... and stupid immensely what

              "Pike vests" - this is still the softest comparison for most of the Tingent horse grazing here. Especially those who love for politicsbazaarspeak wink
              1. 0
                August 16 2016
                Well, you are the horse-tingent!
              2. +1
                August 16 2016
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                - you speak nonsense. There are also many people on the "other side" who quite understand the rules of the "game"

                It is one thing to understand and abide by the rules, it is another thing to change them during the game to your interest.
                For this, as you know, they beat with a candelabrum)))
          4. The comment was deleted.
          5. +1
            August 16 2016
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            That's something like

            Trotsky Lev Davidovich: "The ultimate goal is nothing, movement is everything!" Congratulations!
            1. -1
              August 16 2016
              Quote: V.ic
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              That's something like

              Trotsky Lev Davidovich: "The ultimate goal is nothing, movement is everything!" Congratulations!

              Only this is not Trotsky. Search for your help:

              The words of Eduard Bernstein (1850-1932), leader of the Second International and the right wing of German Social Democracy, which is often referred to in Leninist articles as "revisionist", "opportunist" and "reformist".


              Somehow request
              1. 0
                August 16 2016
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                Somehow

                You are partly right. The first was the "chosen one" you indicated, then the same thing, but "from the other side" said the demon of the Revolution (another "chosen one").
                Just in case, check out: http://arkadiy-maler.livejournal.com/431276.html
                1. -1
                  August 16 2016
                  Quote: V.ic
                  You are partly right. The first was the "chosen one" you indicated, then the same thing, but "from the other side" said the demon of the Revolution (another "chosen one").
                  Just in case, check out: //arkadiy-maler.livejournal.com/431276.html

                  - what for it surrendered to me? In such volumes, I already know this laughing
                  - I'm curious - why did you even mention this phrase? Moreover, in response to the comment, where there is such, in particular:

                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  The essence of the game is to win. Or at least complicate the position of the "worst partners", thus "lifting" himself

                  - and where is (censorship) "the goal is nothing ...", may I ask you? wink
        2. 0
          August 16 2016
          Well, in that case, cards, money, two trunks.
        3. 0
          August 16 2016
          Quote: insular

          Politics is a big card table, because of which a player cannot get up and leave with a gain and is forced to constantly play, with players constantly sitting down, in exchange for those who have gone bankrupt and lost in the dust.
          The trouble for the Western world is that Russia is still not leaving.
          So see?
          The essence of the game is to stay in the game.

          Exactly. Winning a big jackpot and leaving the table can only be an arrogant player who decides that he is eternal and invincible. "Exceptional States", for example. The task of smart players is to be constantly in the game, even sometimes losing. The result is the centuries-old existence of the Player State as a permanent participant in this game. Many self-confidently left the game and ceased to exist. Smart, once hitting this game table, never stop playing. And the remains of those who came out from time to time float by along the river, according to one Chinese wisdom ..
        4. Xab
          -1
          August 17 2016
          If the West needed it, in the 90s Russia would have sunk into oblivion, but they did not begin to finish Russia off. Just do not say that missed the moment and all that. Now when you see what is happening in our country and in the world as a whole, you begin to understand why Russia was not finished off.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +1
        August 16 2016
        - what does this nonsense mean? And why then "play politics and geopolitics" at all?
        -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
        - A constant, intense game for the sake of maintaining a balance of forces-balance. without any final victory. Yin and Yang. Good and evil. Plus and minus. One nke can exist without the other. That's clearer?
        1. +1
          August 16 2016
          Quote: guzik007
          . Good and evil. Plus and minus.

          Politics, economics, that’s clearer.
      4. 0
        August 16 2016
        Play in order not to lose ...
      5. +1
        August 16 2016
        Quote: Cat Man Null
        Quote: Teberii
        Politics and geopolitics is a big game

        - exactly

        Quote: Teberii
        Impossible to win, but to lose is quite real

        - what is itt nonsense means? And why then "play politics and geopolitics" at all?

        In my opinion, you did not understand the "depth of the depths")) of this phrase. You cannot win in geopolitics, you can temporarily gain the upper hand because the situation is changing all the time, new candidates for leadership are coming, leaders in countries are changing, many things are happening that radically change the existing order. And you can lose easily and naturally .. And you can lose the very existence of the state.
      6. -2
        August 16 2016
        Good article ! If Turkey becomes Russia's "Trojan horse" in NATO, this will be the surest move!
        1. +2
          August 16 2016
          If Turkey becomes Russia's "Trojan horse" in NATO, this will be the surest move


          hi Russia may become a member of NATO if its borders are determined by the Moscow region, plus several provinces. In my opinion, the question is not in Russia and its unions, the question is in Turkey. Never before, perhaps even in the entire history of the United States, the country's leadership has not been placed in such a tight framework of the event. And the scope is to kill either Gulen or Erdogan.

          NATO is US private property. If you become the property of the United States, then the question of transferring this property to one or another regiment is decided at the State Department. And today, Turkey is no longer being property, and what to do with it is a real American headache. Since today's uncle Sam has no solutions, and not only decisions, but even the banal ability to play chess, there is only one way out, to mix the pieces. And the only question is how to do this, with your hand or foot.
      7. +1
        August 16 2016
        Does the title of the article bother you? ambiguously somehow

        Russia
        and she herself is able to "enter" anyone
      8. -3
        August 16 2016
        Quote: Author Volodin Alexey
        There is a version that the stakes are much higher, and the distribution of these stakes is such that in any case, the Western “partners” can get on the Russian chess “fork”.


        Quote: Cat Man Null
        And why then "play politics and geopolitics" at all?


        ... as the Naglo-Saxons cheat - the Big Game is on.
        And in this game, the "Turkish Sultan" - the Russians and the Chinese assign a significant role ... Much more than what he could have counted on from the EU and the United States at best. It is likely that Erdogan's "exciting prospects" have been shone just now ...
        He was offered conditions "from which it is impossible to refuse."

        In short, in bl. in the long term, many WILL BE "VERY FUN"! AND TO WHOM - very "Painful and Scary": they will beat for "100-year humiliation and insults"!
        "Big Game", and the street ...
      9. +1
        August 16 2016
        Politics is a big card table ...

        I will write a quote from R. Reagan from memory: as a child I dreamed of becoming a taper in a brothel, and when I became a politician, I did not see any difference.
      10. +2
        August 16 2016
        If not to play. You can just lose. So the words we don’t touch you and you don’t touch us, we will not interfere in geopolitics - this is nonsense.
    2. +4
      August 16 2016
      Quote: Teberii
      Politics and geopolitics is a big game. It is impossible to win, but to lose is real.

      Once upon a time there was a saying at the entrance: "Do not gamble with the state, you will lose."
      I fully support you on this. Internationally sharpies have gathered in the international arena.
    3. +2
      August 16 2016
      Quote: Teberii
      Politics and geopolitics is a big game. It is impossible to win, but to lose is real.

      There is no doubt that the Darkest invented the next multi-path, and we will see what comes of it!
    4. +2
      August 16 2016
      I am inclined to believe that now it is more profitable for us to have friendly Turkey as part of the NATO bloc - from this, it seems to me, much more benefit can be gained than the official withdrawal of the Turkish Armed Forces from the organization ... but perhaps in a strategic perspective, the exit considered the second strongest army in the bloc, after the United States, can serve as a catalyst for the collapse of NATO!
      1. +2
        August 16 2016
        Quote: Finches
        I am inclined to believe that now it is more profitable for us to have friendly Turkey as part of the NATO bloc - from this, it seems to me, much more benefit can be gained than the official withdrawal of the Turkish Armed Forces from the organization ... but perhaps in a strategic perspective, the exit considered the second strongest army in the bloc, after the United States, can serve as a catalyst for the collapse of NATO!

        Your conclusions look somewhat optimistic. Even if Turkey leaves NATO, so what? So France entered and left NATO, and what has changed? By leaving NATO, Turkey will only reduce the level of its security. Similarly, it was written recently that Greece would leave NATO and the EU, but it did nothing of the kind, only pushed around a little, the Greek prime minister came to Russia to ask for something, but it didn’t burn out! Great Britain behaves in approximately the same way - they raised the issue of leaving the EU in a referendum, made a decision at it to leave the EU and now, roughly speaking, do not know what to do. Germany openly demands that the UK leave the EU, if they are so decided, but the British, that's what the breed is all about, do not want to leave the EU! All this action causes only a sarcastic smile: the Greeks, Britons, and in the future, possibly others, wanted, in fact, to dictate their terms to the EU leader Germany, but while such a tough politician as Angela Merkel is in power in Germany, no one will be able to blackmail Germany. Angela Merkel only looks soft and fluffy, but in fact, in matters of principle, she is a tough politician, I still wonder how the name "iron lady" did not stick to her.
        1. +3
          August 16 2016
          Quote: Blackberry
          Angela Merkel only looks soft and fluffy, but in fact, in matters of principle, she is a tough politician, I still wonder how the name "iron lady" did not stick to her.

          It is not very iron, rather aluminum, Barak and his comrades are bending her here and there, and she herself behaves like a "daisy", you need to be friends with Russia, no Russia is bad, you need to lift the sanctions in a day you need to strengthen the sanctions.
        2. 0
          August 16 2016
          Quote: Blackberry
          France entered and exited NATO

          Let's clarify: France has NEVER left NATO. In 1949, France became one of the founding countries of NATO. In 1966 she left the NATO MILITARY ORGANIZATION (de Gaulle), in 2009 (Sarkozy) she returned. Further quoting your post does not make sense. The source data is not correct.
          Give me at least one country that would leave NATO. The entrance is the ruble, the output is forward feet for the leader who will not just say something about it, but even think seriously. However, the Warsaw Pact was the same as long as the Soviet Union really existed.
          Conclusion: you want to break up NATO, start with the United States. Then it will fall apart.
          1. +1
            August 16 2016
            Well Duc you yourself have confirmed my words, I am quoted you: "In 1966 she left the NATO MILITARY ORGANIZATION (de Gaulle), in 2009 (Sarkozy) returned." NATO itself is a MILITARY ORGANIZATION, this is not a club of hamster lovers, to leave the NATO MILITARY ORGANIZATION MEANS TO LEAVE NATO, WHAT IS DIFFICULT HERE and what initial data in my post are not correct?
            1. 0
              August 16 2016
              Once again about hamsters. You have "horses, people" mixed up in a heap - NATO, the EU, Greeks and Turks, Germans and French, British to a heap. Merkel is iron, but the United States bends her over and over again.
              France, having left the NATO MILITARY ORGANIZATION, REMAINED its full member. That is, she took part in the POLITICAL DECISIONS of the organization. At the same time, it had a special protocol of relations with NATO military structures in case of a military conflict with the USSR.
              Speculations on Turkey’s withdrawal from NATO do not hold water. This is just another escalation of anti-Russian hysteria, no more real than the Russian threat to Poland, the countries of the post-Soviet Baltic states or Sweden with Finland.
              1. 0
                August 16 2016
                Quote: Zulu_S
                Once again about hamsters. You have "horses, people" mixed up in a heap - NATO, the EU, Greeks and Turks, Germans and French, British to a heap. Merkel is iron, but the United States bends her over and over again.
                France, having left the NATO MILITARY ORGANIZATION, REMAINED its full member. That is, she took part in the POLITICAL DECISIONS of the organization. At the same time, it had a special protocol of relations with NATO military structures in case of a military conflict with the USSR.
                Speculations on Turkey’s withdrawal from NATO do not hold water. This is just another escalation of anti-Russian hysteria, no more real than the Russian threat to Poland, the countries of the post-Soviet Baltic states or Sweden with Finland.

                Is that how you understand your interpretation of France’s relations with NATO? It’s supposedly not in NATO, but can make decisions in it, influence the organization. It reminds me of a well-known saying that it’s impossible to be partially pregnant bully : pregnant or are smileOr not. Here and in NATO - either they are members or not. The French have probably come up with a new one in international relations!
      2. 0
        August 16 2016
        Actually, NATO is a military-political organization. A NATO member is ALL THE STATE, NOT HIS ONLY.
    5. 0
      August 16 2016
      If suddenly (but suddenly) Turkey becomes an ally of Russia, then Germany will become our next ally.
    6. +1
      August 16 2016
      "Turkey will help Russia" enter "NATO" - isn't the author of the article drawing too optimistic a conclusion from only Erdogan's one visit to Russia? In this case, if Turkey plays the role of the "Trojan horse" of Russia, he, Turkey, will be helped to "leave" NATO!
  2. +11
    August 16 2016
    Turkey will not leave NATO ... Another reason to say that Russia is interacting with a country that is part of the NATO bloc in various aspects ... And there is not any confrontation .. unlike some who constantly yell about the Russian threat. .Let the western man blow the roof off ..
    1. +4
      August 16 2016
      Quote: parusnik
      Turkey will not leave NATO ... Another reason to say that Russia is interacting with a country that is part of the NATO bloc in various aspects ... And there is not any confrontation .. unlike some who constantly yell about the Russian threat. .Let the western man blow the roof off ..

      Already demolished, while the international media. You go all over the EU unified. After the meeting Steinmeier and Lavrov. It turns out that Steinayer merged all EU interests in Syria to Russia.
  3. +8
    August 16 2016
    You should not overestimate Erdogan --- he has his own game, which is to have or maintain national sovereignty contrary to the will of the West, so he backtracked with Russia, but to say that we have become allies is a misinterpretation.
  4. 0
    August 16 2016
    Suppose that at the helm of Turkish intelligence there will be suckers than professionals. But what about NATO, do we need it?
    1. +1
      August 16 2016
      Quote: dmi.pris
      Suppose that at the helm of Turkish intelligence there will be suckers than professionals. But what about NATO, do we need it?

      We do not need NATO, we need "secret keys" that will hand over the secrets of NATO.
    2. -1
      August 16 2016
      Quote: dmi.pris
      Let there be suckers at the helm of Turkish intelligence than professionals

      Where have you seen suckers in intelligence? I'm only in the movies. “Do you need a urinal?” “You needed it, they already took it.” “Maybe I’ll go for what?” “Maybe you’ll do it. If you open your mouth wider.”
      Something like this.
  5. 0
    August 16 2016
    Still, Putin is not a former intelligence officer, they are not former!
  6. +4
    August 16 2016
    I want to add one more point to the conclusions regarding Fidan: d) Fidan was aware of the coup, which took place under the control of the special services. Erdogan simply in one fell swoop merged all those unwanted, becoming the sole ruler without serious opposition, once again weakening the top of the army, depriving it of recognized authority. For this operation, Fidan is kindly and left at the post.
    1. +1
      August 16 2016
      Quote: inkass_98
      I want to add one more point to the conclusions regarding Fidan: d) Fidan was aware of the coup, which took place under the control of the special services. Erdogan simply in one fell swoop merged all those unwanted, becoming the sole ruler without serious opposition, once again weakening the top of the army, depriving it of recognized authority. For this operation, Fidan is kindly and left at the post.

      I wonder how this is connected with the threat to Erdogan personally.
      Was there a threat to the Sultan if everything was under control.
      I would say that at first they did not control anything but took advantage of the fruits of their victory for reprisals against the conspirators and the opposition
  7. +6
    August 16 2016
    Serious mnogohodovka, and understand it is not easy, you need information. But from the Russia-Turkey-Iran meetings, there is already a concrete result — our TU-22M3 based in Iran, with which it is 60% closer to Syria than from Mozdok.
    1. 0
      August 16 2016
      Serious mnogohodovka, and to understand it is not easy, you need information


      You will not receive information. Watch the flashes. The last, very characteristic, but unnoticed, was the release of the Russian pilot, with the entire crew of the Taliban. And this "flare" splits reality into four parts.

      Meetings by meetings, but I would reformat your remark on the Russia-Turkey-Iran format differently, China-Russia-Pakistan-Afghanistan-Iran-Iraq, and if Turkey behaves correctly, I can close the chain.
  8. +6
    August 16 2016
    Alexei, by the will of fate, the Turks turned out to be temporary and forced companions for us! But they are not allies, and even less so friends! They will again and again impart us to the Bosko!
  9. +2
    August 16 2016
    Fidan is Nabiulina in uniform. It was necessary for someone to look after Erdoогan from NATO. And then suddenly the negotiations in St. Petersburg will go beyond improving the Turkish business. ... To enthusiastic dreamers of the alliance between Moscow and Ankara, it is better to read reports on the battles of Aleppo ... VKS bombed the Turkamons in packs, and the latter struggle with all their might for military logistics on the border with cute Turkey.
  10. 0
    August 16 2016
    Turkey will not leave NATO. If our intelligence provided data on the danger to Edorgan, then undoubtedly honor and praise be to them! A very competent move that allows you to solve critical issues.
    And actually this is the result that is especially valuable!
    1. +1
      August 16 2016
      Yes, it was not our intelligence that provided Erdogan with information that he would be killed in half an hour. How do you imagine a call from, say, the GRU to Erdogan? Intelligence provided information to VVP, and he reported. It is difficult to imagine another option for "passing" such information. Given the fact that the conspirators could be in the secretariat, and could easily block any call, but not from the GDP.
      1. 0
        August 16 2016
        I think that the GDP did not call. And not the fact that it was a phone call. The main thing is that the owner of such information was able to transmit it in such a way that it reached. And who was it, an officer or a civilian ... the main thing they could! And now this situation helps solve global issues.
        1. 0
          August 16 2016
          Quote: Kelevro
          I think that the GDP did not call. And not the fact that it was a phone call. The main thing is that the owner of such information was able to transmit it in such a way that it reached.

          Most likely, the information was brought in a few days, or maybe a week or a month before the actual incident and the coup already took place under the complete control of the special services and individual military units. It’s just that the very fact of the attempted coup unleashed Erdogan’s hands, than the arrests of the conspirators made in advance.
  11. 0
    August 16 2016
    It's time to stop "wanging" and remember the proverb: "Chickens are counted in autumn", in short, wait and see!
  12. 0
    August 16 2016
    Nobody will come out of nowhere. An affectionate calf of two queens sucks. Erdogan is neither the first nor the last of those who are trying to sit on two chairs. You cannot call him dumb. He is far from being a sucker and not Yanukovych, and therefore he will try to extract from this situation maximum benefit for himself. And I think he will succeed, because. he and we need him.
  13. 0
    August 16 2016
    In general, given the location of Turkey, its presence in NATO and a possible alliance with the Russian Federation, it does not lose anything in any situation ....
  14. 0
    August 16 2016
    The West, as it does not seem strange, has been holding back Turkey for a long time, similarly to Russia. Only by other levers and in a different way. Ankara’s ambitions to strengthen Turkey’s influence in the region are completely not shared by Washington’s long-standing allies - the Emirates, Saudis and Qatar. These, as the forum participants expressed themselves here, the players retain the possibility of influencing the oil sector in this region, unlike Turkey, and they also allow, through them, the United States to influence a number of North African states, to say the least. Thus, Turkey, for the United States, is important only as a NATO partner, preserving the US nuclear potential and ... mistress of the straits on its territory. The other role of Turkey by the West is apparently not considered.
  15. +2
    August 16 2016
    Turkey will help Russia "enter" into NATO

    By the very tomatoes! laughing
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. +5
    August 16 2016
    In my opinion, the Turkish crisis in relations with the West has been brewing for a long time. Although, in fairness, diplomacy has repeatedly failed Ankara in relations with the EU. Be that as it may, Turkey is now at risk of being sealed: between the EU (which has been fooling Ankara since 87 with joining the Union, and if you look in more detail, it's already almost 50 years old) and the new state of Kurdistan, which Washington is so hard to nurture in the north of Syria, exactly along the entire southern border of Turkey. The United States thus hopes to maintain control over both Turkey and Syria. Ankara understood this for a long time, but did not dare to take any serious measures to counter this, since it is impossible to do it alone, and Turkey did not have reliable allies in the region - diplomacy again failed. A thing of the past, in the press there were materials about Turkey in which Erdogan made statements about the serious study of the issues of building two own, Turkish aircraft carriers with the attached grouping of fleet ships (existing + new). Even then, it was clear that Turkey and the Alliance (NATO) are straining ... and Ankara does not feel the support it is counting on from the NATO member countries. The US region needs to squeeze Russia on the hydrocarbon market in Europe. Liquefied gas - Utopia. We need trunk pipelines from the Middle East. Washington, for more than 15 years, has been waging wars in this region, in collusion with the Saudis and others, for full control over its resources. And so, when the victory was already so close and only the last outpost remained in the way - Syria, the medic Assad appeared, who did not want to cede his country to Washington for these purposes. (By the way, our brothers Bulgarians cut off the Turkish stream because Washington has other plans for Bulgaria. Everything was complicated by the fact that insidious Russia came to the aid of Assad, by the way, long ago unraveled the US plans. In Ankara, they understand that without Russia, Turkey cannot escape from all this disaster happening on its borders and pushing Turkey into the margins of influence in the region, so everything that is happening between Moscow and Ankara is quite expected and natural.
  18. 0
    August 16 2016
    In my opinion, Turkey's crisis in relations with the West has been brewing for a long time. Although, in fairness, in relations with the EU, Ankara has been repeatedly let down by its diplomacy. Be that as it may, Turkey now risks being sealed: between the EU (which has been fooling Ankara since 87 with its entry into the Union, and if you look in more detail, it’s almost 50 years) and the new state of Kurdistan, which is now so diligently nurtured by Washington in the north of Syria, exactly along the entire southern border of Turkey. In this way, the United States hopes to maintain control over both Turkey and Syria through Kurdistan. Ankara understood this for a long time, but did not dare to take any serious measures to resist this, since it is impossible to do this alone. It's a matter of the past, in the press there were materials about Turkey in which Erdogan made statements about a serious study of the issues of building two of his own, Turkish aircraft carriers with an attached grouping of ships of the fleet (existing + new). Even then, it was clear that Turkey and the Alliance were straining ... and Ankara does not feel the support from the NATO member states that it counts on now and that it will need in the future. The United States has its own plans. They need to push the edge of Russia in the hydrocarbon market in Europe. Liquefied gas is a utopia. We need main pipelines from the Middle East. Washington has been waging wars for 15 years in this region, in collusion with the Saudis and others, for complete control over its resources. And now, when victory is already so close, the last outpost remained - Syria, a medic Assad appeared in it, not wanting to cede his country for these purposes to Washington. Everything was further complicated by the fact that "insidious" Russia came to his aid, by the way, which had long figured out these plans. Ankara understands that without Russia, Turkey, and all this misfortune that is happening on its borders and pushing Ankara to the margins of influence in the region, it is impossible to escape. Therefore, everything that is happening now between Russia and Turkey is quite expected and natural.
  19. -1
    August 16 2016
    Quote: Amurets
    Quote: dmi.pris
    Suppose that at the helm of Turkish intelligence there will be suckers than professionals. But what about NATO, do we need it?

    We do not need NATO, we need "secret keys" that will hand over the secrets of NATO.

    Or "prostitutes")))
  20. +1
    August 16 2016
    For Fidan, I wrote in November after the tragedy with the Su-24. Such actions cannot be carried out spontaneously, without the participation of special services. Look at his early statements for Russia, in the spirit of the recent from the former deputy director of the CIA, openly Russophobic. Fidan is Erdogan's man. And why he was in Russia - we do not know. "There is no waste in exploration, there are only reserves." The same applies to geopolitics.
  21. +1
    August 16 2016
    Prime Minister D Medvedev is known for his frankness. During the presidency of Yushchenko, the media vividly discussed the issue of Ukraine's possible accession to NATO. When visiting Sevastopol, D Medvedev, as president, to the question of the correspondent, would you like to join NATO? the instant answer is yes, we would like to. Having scrolled over the possible reaction of those who heard it, after a few seconds got better, well, actually, we need to think about it. On YouTube, it’s probably preserved.
    1. 0
      August 16 2016
      DI. Medvedev is a peculiar politician. I would even call him impulsive. These features of him can be seen in the post of prime minister, with statements such as "there is no money, but you are holding on" and "if the teachers' salaries are not satisfied, let them go into business." This is more a situation where words are ahead of reason than not competence. His success as prime minister is disputed by many, mostly by those who have a glass half full - always half empty than half full. Be that as it may, under his leadership, the government apparatus carried out a huge amount of work on calculations and endless adjustments to the RF budget, especially during the period of deep volatility of the national currency in the last 2-2,5 years, and indeed, not only in budgetary policy. And we all observe the results of this work. It is gratifying for us, for the most part here, at the forum, the military people - the state, to observe that the military-industrial complex is being revived: design bureaus, military shipyards and military-industrial complex factories are working again. The reformation of the RFSRF finally passed the destructive stage of OShM, which everyone remembers as "optimization" and entered its main milestone - the improvement, build-up and modernization of weapons and military equipment directly in the troops, which pulled up the system of military education and, as a result, the prestige of the RF Armed Forces. Without financing these sectors and components of the Russian economy, this would be impossible. And of course the events of 8.08.2008. Of course, of course, under the influence of VVP (they have different schools, it is felt in everything), but all decisions were made by D. Medvedev, he was then on the edge of the spear, and as time shows now, the decisions are correct. In general, as they say here in Russia: "Horses are not changed on the crossing." I believe that they will succeed with GDP.
  22. +4
    August 16 2016
    NATO was created specifically against the USSR-Russia. I remember that with the collapse of the USSR, some naive people in the West started talking about the fact that NATO is no longer necessary. They were quickly shut up. Turkey, in the wake of the reduction of the threat from the Russian Federation, may well allow itself not to "hold on to NATO's skirt", especially since there are more than enough reasons for offense. But it is too early to speak of an exit, while their cooperation is mutually beneficial. Turkey is not yet ready to enter the "solo voyage" of big politics, for this, in addition to a strong economy and army, "eggs" are also needed (may the Turkish brothers forgive me). But you can go to this, there would be a desire.
  23. +3
    August 16 2016
    The United States and NATO need straits, so no one will let Turkey go.
    1. +1
      August 16 2016
      Quote: semuil
      The United States and NATO need straits, so no one will let Turkey go.



      We need them too ...
      Even more
  24. +2
    August 16 2016
    Russia can enter NATO only as a defeated country, with external governance.
    1. +1
      August 16 2016
      NATO is Washington's tool. Moscow has different views, not the world, other goals, tasks, ways and methods of achieving them. In this regard, Russia's entry into NATO is rather impossible than unlikely.
      1. 0
        August 17 2016
        Quote: aleksklo
        NATO is Washington's tool. Moscow has different views, not the world, other goals, tasks, ways and methods of achieving them. In this regard, Russia's entry into NATO is rather impossible than unlikely.

        He said so only if they defeat us. smile which is unlikely ...
  25. +4
    August 16 2016
    Turkey will help Russia "enter" NATO ... - from behind !!! laughing
  26. 0
    August 16 2016
    Let's live without NATO somehow. soldier
  27. 0
    August 16 2016
    "the words that Turkey is leaving the Western military bloc, then this could well be regarded as a" victory for the Kremlin. "However such a victory looks too local, and therefore we can assume that a new game (or even “friendship”) with Ankara with the aim of leaving NATO would hardly be worth the candles burned earlier (as well as bridges and other things) "...

    In general, I agree with the article, except for this statement of the "locality" of this situation ...

    Turkey, as a member of NATO, is its strongest player in the region, which is tied to not only local, but also geopolitical issues and problems ... Even a partial loss of Turkey for NATO will be a severe blow to its geopolitical ambitions ...

    Another question is that I absolutely do not believe that Turkey can withdraw from NATO ...

    At the moment, Erdogan is playing his own game, Putin is playing his own ... How it will be in the future with check and checkmate is unknown ... And the stalemate result is also useless ...

    We can only wait and watch ...

    PS But this: "Russia" entered NATO with the help of Turkey "- I liked it ...
  28. +2
    August 16 2016
    Quote: Vitwin
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    - In short, Victor ... if you have nothing to say - go ... in peace

    God bless you .. (baptized hope) Roman? in the sense of amen)))
  29. 0
    August 16 2016
    Enter NATO? Is that a heavy tarpaulin boot, enter. soldier
  30. -1
    August 16 2016
    The greatest “number of votes” was gained by the version according to which Russia begins a large-scale geopolitical game, the final result of which is Turkey’s withdrawal from the North Atlantic Alliance.
    And what will Turkey's "exit" from NATO give us in order to placate Erdogash? In my opinion, NATO itself is already ready to refuse (and will refuse, if anything) from the Turks with such a ruler without any geopolitical games of Russia. Yes, even today Turkey will "come out", and tomorrow after the reign of Erdogan it will "enter", so what? Over the past 300-400 years, it has long been clear that Turkey is not Russia's ally and partner, but at best a quiet rival and wrecker, and sometimes an enemy with whom we have fought more than once. And how will we now support the Kurds in their issue of independence and the war with the Turks? I would have leaked Erdogan and a small civil war in Turkey would have done them good - they would have learned how to support terrorists in Syria, Chechnya, when they blow up civilians, otherwise they are used to making money selling their clothes and fucking our fools, hating all Russians ...
  31. +1
    August 16 2016
    when the gas flow through Turkey starts working, the pipe to Ukraine closes and thereby the United States loses the meaning of being there. Because, in my opinion, its purpose in Ukraine was: NATO base in Sevastopol and blackmail of Russia and Europe by the Ukrainian gas pipe. The first problem immediately glanced therefore, the United States has nothing more to do in Ukraine ... they do not completely leave there, leaving their companies there (the same Monsanta gloriously play enough with her pesticides and GMOs on Ukrainian soil ... etc.) their only victory is skillfully washed dill pre rotated into an ardent Russophobe. Turkey will be America's next target, it will be relatively easier to carry out a coup in Muslim hot countries, and from the day the northern stream opens, the Americans will include all the resources and ideas there. I would like Trump to leave ukrov alone with themselves but doubt in his victory, the colossal system of elections in the United States is not stupidly counting votes there. Clinton will come to power, this rotten chimera will roll such nonsense that the younger bush and Bama will simply not even stand by. Therefore, you need to hurry ...
  32. 0
    August 17 2016
    The article is terribly named. This - not Russia should go to NATO - should be scattered and become part of Russia.
  33. 0
    August 22 2016
    And why should Russia join NATO?
    Against whom and with whom to be friends?
    Against your friends?
    So only Baltic countries, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova and the countries of Eastern Europe can.
    We don’t know how!

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