Pistol cartridges

30
Pistol cartridges

9X18 PMM PISTOL CARTRIDGE

The backlog of domestic military short-barreled weapons from modern Western designs, primarily due to the low stopping and penetrating effects of relatively low-power 9 xNNXX Makarov pistol cartridges, led to the need for a radical modernization of pistol ammunition. At the end of the 18-ies, the Soviet designers of the KBP as a result of the modernization of the Makarov pistol to increase its capacity based on the standard PM cartridge (1980-H-57 с) created a perspective 181 X9 PMM pistol cartridge.

In 1991, the Soviet army adopted the 9-mm pistol PMM designer R.G. Shigapov and the new “high-impulse” pistol cartridge 9 x18 PMM (57-H-181 cm) with a bullet of increased penetrability of the modified configuration (7 index Х16) ( with a sleeve length of 18 mm, the muzzle energy of this cartridge was increased by 1,7 times).

Using the standard cartridge sleeve 9х18 PM, as well as new gunpowder, increasing their weight and applying a bullet in the PMM cartridge, the designers managed to bring the characteristics of the new ammunition to the level of the Parabellum cartridge 9 without a significant increase in pressure and recoil energy. In terms of muzzle energy (19 J), this cartridge is almost on par with NATO's standard 494-mm pistol cartridge. . The maximum pressure of the cartridge PMM increased by 9 percent compared with the cartridge PM. . The initial speed with a steel core has grown from 15 to 315 m / s. 430-mm pistol cartridge PMM has a high bullet penetration and a large stopping effect. His 9 g bullet punches a steel sheet 5,4 mm thick or a passenger car body at a distance of up to 20 meters, without ricocheting at meeting angles of 3 – 15 degrees. At a distance of up to 20 meters, the defeat of manpower protected by body armor vest is ensured.

The cartridge PMM is fixed when filing in the chamber by the front end of the sleeve in the ledge of the chamber. The bullet of increased penetrability of PMM for external differences has the head of a bimetallic shell in the form of a truncated cone and the same steel core with a lead jacket. The propellant charge is lacquer powder SEN 20 / 4,85, weight is 0,45 g. The bullet is shell, with a steel core made of heat-treated steel. To reduce the possibility of ricochets, the conical head of the bullet has a flat shape. By improving the ballistic properties, the initial velocity (415 – 435 m / s) and the muzzle energy of the bullet, its stopping and stopping action, have increased. Accuracy of shooting at 25 meters is 3,2, see. However, shooting new ammunition in a standard Makarov pistol was not recommended due to the sharply increased maximum pressure of the powder gases, since the maximum pressure of the new cartridge was 15 percent higher than that of the PM cartridge. That is why in the pistol PMM had to strengthen the steel frame and casing-bolt.

In 1995, the Instrument Design Bureau (KBP, Tula) developed a new 9-mm PBM armor-piercing bullet for the 9 x18 PMM pistol cartridge (7 Н25 index). Soft point bullet PBM (weight 3,55 g, 14,9 mm length) has a bimetallic sheath, the exposed top steel hardened mandrel (made of carbon steel U8 A; U10 A with a hardness over 60 HRC units, mass 1,8 g, length 14,6 mm diameter - 5,0 mm ) and an aluminum shirt, tight core on the sides. The truncated cone-shaped core of the core projects on the 3 mm from the bimetallic shell. To accommodate the long core in the tail shell of the bullet stamped bulge. The low mass of the bullet at a high initial speed (compared to the standard cartridge) allowed increasing its kinetic energy at distances up to 25 meters when meeting an obstacle. The bullet of the PBM cartridge pierces the 6 B5 – 12 model's general-purpose protective vest at a distance of 10 meters with a probability of 100 percent (titanium plate 1,25 mm and 30 layers of aramid fabric), while the core goes out of the shell and goes deep into the gel block of the imitator and goes deep into the depth of the core. (the density of gelatin is approximately equal to the density of the human body), and the steel 12-mm sheet at a distance of 5 meters with a probability of 15 percent. It is also important that the bullet of the 80 x9 PBM cartridge (or its core - when fired at a protected target) leaves a direct wound canal, its diameter does not increase and does not fragment, which complies with international humanitarian law. These are truly impressive results, since no other bullet to the cartridge holder of a Makarov pistol showed such high combat characteristics. The propellant charge of the powder provides the initial speed of a bullet 18 – 485 m / s, which corresponds to the kinetic energy of 495 J (against 418 J in a regular bullet), but also significantly increases the recoil momentum.

PMM cartridges are made from 1991 of the year only in Russia, in particular, the 9-mm armor-piercing cartridge PBM is produced by the Novosibirsk plant of low-voltage equipment. Designed for firing pistols PMM, "Berdysh", submachine guns "Klin", "Bison-2", which are in service with special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia. It is forbidden to use 9 x18 PMM cartridges for firing weapons intended for 9 x18 PM ammunition, because of the increased gas pressure (from 120 to 150 MPa), weapon parts can be destroyed when fired.

Chuck length, mm - 24,48 – 25
Sleeve length, mm - 18
Chuck weight, g - 9,16 – 9,91
Bullet weight, g - 5,35 – 5,75
Initial speed, m / s - 410 – 435
Muzzle energy, J - 494


9х17 K service pistol cartridge

In Russia, the service pistol cartridge 9 x17 is produced from the 1996 of the year by the Tula Cartridge Factory and is known as 9 x17 mm K. The new Russian pistol cartridge is an exact copy of the widely used Browning Short 9 pistol cartridge. This cartridge was rarely used in military samples, but it found wide use in police and civilian pistols.

After certification of the cartridge 9x17 in Russia, it was adopted as a service ammunition, and a modification of the pistol PM under the designation IL-71 and a number of pistols and revolvers are produced under it. Russian-made cartridges are weaker than 9x18 PM cartridges due to the lower initial speed of the bullet, which has a soft lead center instead of a steel core and a tampacom-clad (soft alloy containing 90 percent copper, and 10 percent zinc) soft shell. However, despite the inadequate slaughter power of the bullet and other above-mentioned disadvantages, this cartridge is one of the most successful pistol cartridges, since The low initial speed of the bullet in combination with a small recoil force has a positive effect on the constancy of the battle and accuracy of shooting, and reduces the likelihood of a rebound when shooting in enclosed spaces. In addition, the quality of the cartridge allows you to design under it a light and compact weapon.

The cartridge is fixed when filing in the chamber by the front end of the sleeve in the ledge of the chamber. The bullet consists of a brass bimetallic shell and a lead core. The cartridge case of a cylindrical shape with a non-protruding flange, it can be either brass or steel lacquered.

Cartridge length, mm - 25
Sleeve length, mm - 17
Chuck weight, g - 9,13 – 9,73
Bullet weight, g - 5,9 – 6,2
Initial speed, m / s - 270 – 315
Muzzle energy, J - 224


9х19 pistol cartridges

Along with the regular 9-mm pistol pistol cartridges of the PM at the end of the 1990-s, the Parabell pistol cartridges that were new for us but widely distributed throughout the world of the 9х19 were adopted in Russia. 9 x19 cartridge "Parabellum" was used not only in the same pistols, but also in many types of automatic small arms. Due to its qualities such as sufficient power, accuracy of the battle and flat path of the bullet, this cartridge has become the most widespread.

After the end of the Second World War, the 9 x19 pistol cartridge became almost international ammunition and now Parabellum cartridges are made by almost all the leading cartridge companies in the world. In 1965, it was standardized as a NATO pistol cartridge (9 mm NATO) with a 7,45 g bullet and 396 initial velocity m / s, and since then almost all types of short-barreled weapons and most submachine guns in the armies of the North Atlantic countries block designed for the use of this particular ammunition.

The use of this cartridge as one of the standard ammunition for military weapons of the Russian army was due to the fact that the cartridge 9 x18 PM was powerless in front of modern means of individual armor.
During 1994 – 1995, Klimovskiy TSNIITOCHMASH designed, developed documentation, manufactured and conducted factory tests of the promising Russian 9x19 WP 057 pistol cartridge (later after adopting the 7 21 standardized as an 9 product) intended for the 9-mm gun. The new 19х19 cartridge with a bullet of increased penetrability, developed by TsNIITOCHMASH designer I.P. Kasyanov based on the decision of the 1993 technical meeting from May 9 of the Grach program, was made in the dimensions of the world-famous Parabellum 19XXNUMX “Parabellum”, but it is superior on the bullet striking action.


9 x19 pistol cartridges (from left to right): 9 x19.000 Ulyanovsk mechanical plant; 9 x19 PSO of the Tula cartridge plant; 7 H21; PBP (7 H31); low-ricocheted bullet cartridge with lead core

The 7 H21 cartridge is intended for the defeat of manpower, including equipped with individual means of protection. The semi-shell bullet of increased penetrability with a steel core of the Pst of the 7 H21 cartridge (the mass of a bullet of 5,3 g) has a bimetallic cup-wrap with a core protruding from it in a polyethylene jacket. The head part of the heat-strengthened core (steel 65 G, hardness - 50 – 60 HRC, mass 3,7 g) has the shape of a truncated cone, with a diameter of cylindrical part 7 mm with a length 16 mm. The design of the bullet provided better penetrability and increased stopping effect, besides due to the enhanced powder charge, the bullet has a very high initial speed - up to 460 m / s (muzzle energy - about 550 J) and high penetration - 8-mm steel sheet StZ at 5 distance m. The penetration range of body armor Zh-81 - Ж-86 – 2 to 25 meters. The bullet head is black.

In 1997, in the Tula Instrument Design Bureau (KBP), the designers V.K. Zelenko, V. M. Korolev and V. A. Volkov, headed by A. G. Shipunov and V. P. Gryazev, developed a new 9 x19 armor-piercing cartridge with a bullet increased penetrability for gun GSH-18. During the development and production tests of a cartridge with a very light armor-piercing bullet, it was called 9 x19 PBP (pistol armor-piercing cartridge), later it was adopted under the symbol 7 Н31 for the armament of the Russian army and law enforcement agencies along with the GSH-18 gun. The basis of the cartridge was taken pistol cartridge 9 x19, and the basis of the design of the bullet was based on the PBM bullet scheme. First of all, it was decided to raise the power of the cartridge by increasing the muzzle energy of the bullet with an armor-piercing core, and not by increasing the ballistic impulse. For this, a special armor-piercing bullet with a heat-strengthened steel core in a polyethylene jacket was designed. A lighter bullet had a bimetallic shell with a bare head of the core. With the same ballistic momentum of the cartridge as the PM (0,22 kg per second), the initial speed increased from 315 m / s to 500 m / s. This cartridge could be used without any improvements in the standard PM pistols. But the external impact of the bullet has changed quite a lot. Previously, a standard PM bullet with 10 meters punched only one and a half millimeters of steel 10-mm sheet, but now from this distance the PM pistol punched a five-millimeter sheet, which even the standard American military 0,5-mm Beretta pistol could not get from the 9 meter distance M 9.

The armor-piercing half-shell bullet of enhanced penetration of the 7 Н31 cartridge (4,15 g mass) has a bimetallic sheath, steel heat-strengthened core (U7 steel, 60 HRC hardness, 2,2 g mass, mm 17,5 length, diameter - 5,0 mm), protruding 4,8 g, 7 mm in length, diameter - 31 mm), protruding aluminum shirt. The head of the core has the shape of a truncated cone. An 612 H8 bullet with an initial speed of 20 m / s pierces third-class body armor or a steel sheet of StZ with a thickness of XNUMX mm at a distance of XNUMX meters.

9 x19 cartridge is fixed when filing in the chamber with the front end of the sleeve in the ledge of the chamber. The sleeve is cylindrical with a non-protruding rim (flange), brass, steel lacquered or bimetallic with a small taper (0,1 mm) with a capsule socket under the cap of Berdan (Boxer). Pistol cartridges produced by the Tula Cartridge Plant have an external sealing of the bullet and an increased (compared to other Russian ammunition factories) lacquer layer thickness at the sleeve case.

9х19 pistol cartridges PSSO, 7 H21 and 7 H31 are used for firing pistols from Yarygin, GSH-18, submachine gun PP-90 М1, etc.

Cartridge length, mm - 29,7
Sleeve length, mm - 19
Chuck weight, g - 11,6 – 12,3
Bullet weight, g - 7,45 – 8,1
Initial speed, m / s - 396
Muzzle energy, J - 584


9х21 pistol cartridges

In 1991, the designers at the Central Scientific Research Institute of Precision Engineering (TsNIITOCHMASH) in Klimovsk near Moscow on the subject of R & D “Grach” were tasked to develop a new pistol complex as a part of a pistol under the fundamentally new 9-mm pistol cartridge developed at that time. power, which in its performance characteristics would be superior to similar weapons, which are equipped with foreign armies of the most developed countries.


9х21 pistol cartridges (from left to right): SP-10 - with an armor-piercing bullet with a steel heat-strengthened core; SP-11 (index 7 H28) - with a bullet with a lead core in a bimetallic shell; SP-12 (index 7 H29) - with a bullet with a steel core; exemplary; training

Given the tactical and technical requirements, the designer of the institute, A. B. Yuryev, together with the technologist E. S. Kornilova, under the leadership of I. P. Kasyanov, began developing a new 9 xNNUMX mm pistol cartridge with an increased power of 21 WP with a high-impacting bullet. Moreover, it was originally planned that in the future this cartridge would be used for shooting not only from a perspective pistol, but also from a submachine gun that was already planned at that time. The high penetration ability of the 052 WG cartridge was achieved by the original design of the bullet (for example, a polyethylene shirt was used to increase the penetration effect of its bullet, and the steel core was stripped at the top of the bullet) and the optimal ballistic solution. The bullet had a very high initial speed - 052 m / s, which ensured the guaranteed defeat of the enemy's protected personnel at a distance of up to 420 meters, which almost doubled the technical task of the GRAU. This was also largely due to the colossal contribution of the GosNIIKhP from Kazan, which provided the cartridge production with three new types of powders. Such a decision opened up significant opportunities for the entire ammunition-weapon complex.

9 xNUMX pistol cartridge WP 21 ensured the penetration of body armor containing one or two titanium plates 052 mm thick and 1,4 Kevlar layers at a distance of up to 30 meters or steel sheet 50 mm thick at distances up to 4 meters, superior to similar domestic pistols and domestic personnel with superior domestic pistols and domestic wards with a thickness of up to 30 meters, surpassing similarly designed pistol cartridges of domestic personnel and domestic masses with domestic 1,3 mm thickness. for slaughter action in 1,4 and 1993 times. The cartridge improved in 0 by the designer I. P. Kasyanov received the index РГ54 XNUMX.
In 2000, the FSB and the SVR, and a little later the Ministry of the Interior, adopted a new complex of small arms, which included: 9-mm pistol SR.1 "Vector"; 9-mm submachine gun SR.2 "Heather" and 9 x21 ammunition.

Soon, on the basis of the SR.1 pistol, the designers of TsNIITOCHMASH developed its export version of the WG 060 (received its own name "Gyurza"). An export modification of the SP cartridge was designed for it. 10. 9 xNUMX pistol cartridge SP-21 with a bullet of increased penetrability ensured penetration of the 10 mm steel sheet at a distance of 5 meters. In 50, the cartridge, simultaneously with the Serdyukov SR.1996 pistol, was adopted by the FSB of Russia and received the official name - a special cartridge SP-1.


The cartridge SP-10 (7 H29) with a bullet of increased penetrability with a steel core is designed to defeat the enemy's manpower in personal protective equipment and unarmored equipment. The semi-shell bullet of the SP-10 cartridge (mass 6,7 g, diameter 9,0 mm) has a bimetallic shell without a back cone and a belt, a steel heat-strengthened stamped core (hardness 54 – 58 HRC) protruding from the shell on an 3,4 mm and a polyethylene shirt. The core of the core has the shape of a truncated cone with a tip diameter of about 3,0 mm. (The bullet WP 052, unlike the SP-10 bullet, had a turning core with a diameter of 2,0 mm.) This design reduces the energy loss of the armor-piercing core to penetrate the bullet shell when it hits the barrier. Due to this, the bullet of the cartridge SP-10 has a high penetration. At distances of 50 meters, a bullet pierces 4-mm steel sheet, 100 meters - 2 titanium plates 1,4 mm thick with 30 layers of aramid fabric. Initially, the tip of the bullet of the cartridge SP-10 was painted black, at present it is painted red. Packaging cartons for these cartridges have a distinctive black color.

Development work on the “Rook” theme, which continued for 12 years, ended in 2003 with the creation of three powerful pistol complexes that meet all modern requirements and allow to solve almost all the firing tasks assigned to this type of weapon.

March 21 2003 166-mm pistol complexes were adopted by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the Ministry of Internal Affairs: the pistol of the 5th designer of Izhevsk Mechanical Plant V.A. Yarygina - chambered for 9 х9 (developed by 19 Н7) developed by CNIITOCASH; pistol GSH-21, designers of KBP, Tula, V.P. Gryazev and A.G. Shipunova, chambered for their own design 18 x9 (index 19 Н7) and self-loading ATP pistol, designer P.I. Serdyukov, 31 x9 () Index 21 Н7; 28 Н7; 29 BTZ) developed by CNIITCHMASH.


The position of the parts and parts of automation, as well as the 7 H21 cartridges of the Yarygin PYol pistol before firing a shot

The new gun was originally intended for a wide range of tactical tasks. The range of 9 x21 cartridges used for various purposes for the SR.1 pistol was significantly expanded:
SP-10 (7 H29) - with a bullet with a steel core of increased penetrability;
SP-11 (7 H28) - with a low-bilayer bullet with a lead core in a bimetallic shell;
SP-12 - with an expansive bullet with a steel core;
SP-13 (7 BTZ) - with an armor-piercing tracer bullet.


The device of bullets, their penetrative action and ballistics determine the purpose of the cartridges - for firing at unprotected manpower the cartridges SP-11 (7 H28) and SP-12 are used; for hitting targets in personal protective equipment located in vehicles and behind various light obstacles (doors, hardwood floors, thin walls) - cartridges SP-10 (7 Н29) or SP-13 (7 BTZ).
The lead core SP-11 bullet cartridge is designed to destroy enemy personnel, not protected by personal protective equipment or protective equipment without metal protective plates, for shooting in confined spaces, where the possibility of hitting bullets from a ricochet of bullets and for conducting educational shooting. The bullet is similar in shape to the 9 x19 “Parabellum” bullet - ogival with a rounded top, without a back cone and belt. The bullet has a bimetallic shell and a lead core with a stepped depression 2,5 mm in the bottom part. The muzzle energy of the cartridge is 590 J. The bullet diameter conforms to the NATO standard 9,0 mm. The bullet cartridge SP-11 and cardboard packaging boxes are not distinctive color.

The SP-12 cartridge with an expansive bullet with a steel core is designed to hit the enemy’s unprotected manpower, protected by personal protective equipment, including those in vehicles and behind light obstacles (doors, wooden floors, thin walls) in conditions of limited space where the possibility of rebound increases. The bullet of the 7 H29 cartridge consists of a steel heat-strengthened core, a polyethylene jacket and a bimetallic shell. The nose of the core protrudes from the shell. Such a design of the bullet allowed to reduce the energy losses of the armor-piercing core to penetrate the bullet shell. Due to this, the bullet of the 7 H29 cartridge had a high penetration. The top of the bullet cartridge SP-12 was painted black.

All 9 x21 pistol cartridges have the same external dimensions and consist of a bullet, a cartridge case, a propellant charge, and a primer-igniter cap. Cartridges are unified on the sleeve and primer-igniter. Their difference lies in the design of bullets. The sleeve is bimetallic, cylindrical in shape with a small taper (0,2 mm) and two pilot openings for the Berdan capsule. The propellant charge - pyroxylin single-channel powder P-45 is placed in the sleeve with increased density. Charge weight - 0,52 g. Capacity of cardboard packing boxes - 30 cartridges.
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  1. grizzlir
    +2
    10 January 2012 08: 55
    History made a loop. There was a TT pistol with its cartridge, the military was not happy with the small stopping ability of the 7,62x25 cartridge bullet. A PM was created with a new cartridge, with more stopping power but less penetration power. Now again we needed a gun and cartridges with great penetrating characteristics.
    1. Tyumen
      0
      10 January 2012 17: 53
      Quote: grizzlir
      There was a TT pistol with its cartridge, the military did not like the small stopping power


      There was a TT option for Egypt, called * Tokagypt *, under 9 / 19Para, with a fuse and an ergonomic handle. I think it was not bad.
      1. 0
        11 January 2012 00: 42
        "Tokagipt" isn't it a Hungarian remake?
        1. 0
          12 February 2012 19: 14
          Of course, yes, Hungarian. The contract fell through - pistols remained in small numbers
  2. dred
    +1
    10 January 2012 12: 19
    there are two options. pistols with a large stopping effect are needed for the police. Bandits are not observed with bandits. But cartridges like TT need the army armor to be pierced. This is a personal weapon.
    1. grizzlir
      +2
      10 January 2012 12: 53
      I agree, but the PM was developed to order of the military. The armored vehicles at that time did not yet have such a mass distribution.
      1. marauder
        +1
        10 January 2012 15: 21
        They ate such pistols, why do we need bronics?
        1. 0
          11 January 2012 05: 20
          From a long distance the bullet will stop, will ricochet at an angle.
  3. marauder
    +2
    10 January 2012 15: 12
    I do not understand something the author has confused.

    the designers managed to bring the characteristics of the new ammunition to the 9 x19 Parabellum cartridge level without a significant increase in pressure and recoil energy.

    It is forbidden to use 9 x18 PMM cartridges for firing a weapon intended for 9 x18 PM cartridges, since due to the increased gas pressure (from 120 to 150 MPa), destruction of weapon parts is possible during firing.

    Accuracy of firing at 25 meters is 3,2 cm. However, firing new ammunition in a regular Makarov pistol was not recommended due to the sharply increased maximum pressure of the powder gases

    At the expense of accuracy in comparison with PM, Kalash is resting. belay
    SVD at 25 meters accuracy of 2 cm.
    just a sniper gun.

    Let the author get 25 meters from the PM to the watermelon for starters wink
    1. +1
      10 January 2012 21: 18
      I’m not an author, but 25 meters in a watermelon the size of my head - no problem.
      1. +1
        11 January 2012 05: 16
        But why find fault with him, he haet himself. Who shoots worse, everything is in "milk". Good training is necessary to put all the bullets in the center, the slightest mistake and by. From the same TT it is easier to shoot because of the length of the pistol.
        1. marauder
          +1
          11 January 2012 12: 36
          Quote: almost demobilized
          Whoever shoots worse has everything in "milk". Good training is needed to put all the bullets in the center


          And the designer of weapons is fools. why are they inventing sniper weapons.
          better to train and that's it. replace all sniper weapons with PM. winked
      2. marauder
        0
        11 January 2012 12: 30
        Quote: wasjasibirjac
        I’m not an author, but 25 meters in a watermelon the size of my head - no problem.


        and a coin of 3.2 cm from 25 meters is weak.
        accuracy suggests that all gray shots will lie in a circle of 3.2 cm.

        I didn’t fail. I like him too. But do not be misled.
        and I didn’t say that it’s impossible to get there. Yes, some will fall, some will miss.
        but this is not an indicator.
        1. +3
          11 January 2012 15: 37
          I don’t know, I haven’t tried, but if I can make out, I’ll get 50/50. In principle, the PM is not intended for shooting at 25 meters, because this is a weapon of self-defense, the real distance is 10 meters, you need to aim a good distance at a great distance. In real combat, while you aim, you yourself will be overwhelmed.
          1. marauder
            +1
            11 January 2012 19: 13
            Quote: wasjasibirjac
            I don’t know, I haven’t tried, but if I can make out, I’ll get 50/50. In principle, the PM is not intended for shooting at 25 meters


            This is what it was necessary to write in the article.

            I will put you a plus sign for the truth.
      3. 0
        13 February 2012 18: 40
        I, too, agree - but ... at the dash! And running around the dash for half an hour - and Beretta will not help :-)
    2. Valboro
      0
      24 February 2012 23: 51
      While serving in the army, he regularly fired from the PM. Out of 30 I regularly knocked out 27 - 29. This is about 3 cm. This is to talk about "bad PM".
      It was made according to the requirements of the military according to the experience of the Second World War. And there, I remind you, the officers fought with a machine gun before the company, and the gun was needed just in case. My father began to fight with Colt for 11 years and a year later he presented the young lieutenant and he wore the Mauser HS. The main thing is light.
  4. +1
    10 January 2012 16: 04
    Yes, not like a watermelon, at least in a circle with a diameter of 50 centimeters! Technology on this topic should be taken from the Italians! Well, who knows a lot about this!
  5. Tyumen
    -1
    10 January 2012 17: 47
    The head part of a heat-strengthened core (steel 65 G, hardness - 50-60 HRC,

    Spring steel. The hardness of a decent knife.
  6. +1
    10 January 2012 21: 16
    and why there is no caliber more than 9mm. about 7-8 years ago I read about the development of a pistol based on Yarygin for .40 caliber. in principle, the PM cartridge is suitable for civilian weapons; for service purposes, a larger caliber is needed, because the stopping action is much higher, the United States is not in vain still leaving the police with .45. For the army, however, piercing action is needed due to the presence of personnel of opponents of armor protection. Until we, in the Russian Federation, will have a civilian market for shotguns, our factories will only survive on state orders, and it is not endless.
    it’s still interesting how the author proposes to use the 9 * 19 cartridge in the PM, not only is the sleeve longer, but the smaller bullet itself - for the PM - 9,27 mm, for cartridges of Western manufacture and Russian derivatives - 9,02 mm?
  7. Capt.stryker
    +3
    18 January 2012 01: 33
    Quote: Maroder
    Let the author get 25 meters from the PM to the watermelon for starters

    There is such a thing as "training", if you picked up a gun for the first time, not necessarily a PM, you may not get into a watermelon from 10 meters. I, from the PM, from 20 m, put the entire clip in a circle with a diameter of 15-20 cm.
    Quote: wasjasibirjac
    I’m not an author, but 25 meters in a watermelon the size of my head - no problem.

    Support.

    Quote: Maroder
    Quote: almost demob
    Whoever shoots worse has everything in "milk". Good training is needed to put all the bullets in the center


    And the designer of weapons is fools. why are they inventing sniper weapons.
    better to train and that's it. replace all sniper weapons with PM.

    Why so exaggerate? A sniper, by the way, must also constantly train, and even more than other categories of fighters.
    Quote: Maroder
    and a coin of 3.2 cm from 25 meters is weak.
    accuracy suggests that all gray shots will lie in a circle of 3.2 cm.

    Personally, I fired at least one or two holes in the 10-ku, but I already wrote about the dispersion of shots.
    1. Valboro
      +1
      24 February 2012 23: 57
      I completely agree. Only did not "lay down", but "put". There is no verb "to lay down", there is "to put", or "to put".
      Sorry for the comment, but I would like it to have the right literary with excellent technical.
  8. Jupiter
    +3
    19 January 2012 22: 56
    It’s strange why they didn’t do the PY immediately under the new 9x21 cartridge?
    And by the way, why keep such a fidelity to the caliber of 9 mm? If they make a new cartridge, they would make in caliber 40-41 (approx. 10-10,5 mm) immediately.
    It would be something like 10x21 or 10x23.
    by the way, pendos in my opinion have such a cartridge, the caliber is just 40. They say a good cartridge.
    those. ours invented a bicycle again? feel
    1. 0
      20 January 2012 15: 30
      You can create a thousand weapons, but rebuild the cartridge industry ... Try to take 5.56x45 (.223 Rem) from amers - they will put them on bayonets. :)
  9. +2
    21 January 2012 19: 54
    Anyone who scolds Makarov's pistol simply does not know how to shoot! Give him at least a super sophisticated "GLOCK", "Beretta", "Walter", "Sieg-Sauer" or something else - and he will not hit the target!
    I want to note that Western experts consider the PM one of the best pocket pistols. So we draw conclusions.
    1. +2
      22 January 2012 18: 16
      Yes, no one scolds him. This is really a POCKET gun. Those. from the realm of civilian weapons rather. In this capacity, he is very good.
      But this is definitely not a weapon for the army.
      Instead of developing PM in 1948, you just had to upgrade the TT.
      Considering that the TT is essentially an unsuccessful copy of Colt, model 1911, you just had to finalize it, focusing on the original, namely: switch to the caliber 9x19 (if you like it that way), make the fuse normal, a two-row magazine, more reliable its locking mechanism and ergonomic tilt of the handle. And finally secure the pin securing the striker! It would make a wonderful gun!
      For example, the Yugoslavs produce TTs with an extended handle in different calibres, including even 10 mm- Zastava M57 (pictured).

      And so Makarov, in order to make the mechanism simpler (as if the TT was fucking complicated) he used a weakened 9x18 cartridge. Well, they played with him for 50 years and recognized what was clear from the very beginning - we need weapons under a normal cartridge, and not under a civilian one.
      1. +1
        22 January 2012 20: 47
        In general, a 9x17 cartridge is considered a civilian cartridge. And Makarov for the competition did 2 types of pistols: chambered for 7,62x25 and 9x18. And it was not his fault that the gun was adopted into service under the 9x18 cartridge.
        And TT is a copy of Browning. With its modifications. And Colt is the same Browning, but only the license for its production was sold to Colt. Tokarev didn’t set a fuse for the reason that, firstly, in a combat situation he would only interfere with the instant opening of fire, and secondly, that a commander armed with a pistol must be able to handle him correctly.
        1. +1
          23 January 2012 17: 42
          Maybe you know better what Tokarev thought there ...

          But in my opinion, he did not make a fuse because for USM, made in the form of a single removable unit, it was quite difficult to implement.

          As for the speed of opening fire, it opens much faster (including in a combat situation) if the USM pistol has a double action, and not, like the TT, a single one.

          Quote: Victor123
          a commander armed with a pistol must be able to handle him correctly


          apparently, all the same, your hopes with Tokarev did not come true, the commanders could not learn how to handle the TT correctly, as a result of which it (TT) had to be replaced by a PM equipped with a normal fuse and a double-acting trigger.
          1. Valboro
            0
            25 February 2012 00: 09
            I do not agree with you. If you are talking about the 1903 Browning (sometimes called "Browning Long"), then it had a fixed barrel. Colt has a movable earring. Tokarev did the same locking, but the trigger is absolutely his own.
            If we do not talk about the quality of manufacture, especially in wartime, the gun is not bad. But his pistol cartridge is too powerful for such a small ciber.
            And for another example, Browning made his HP with self-cocking USM, and the military asked him to remove and make a classic one, like on Colt.
            Apparently at that time there were such views.
  10. +1
    23 January 2012 17: 49
    Quote: Victor123
    will interfere with instant fire


    by the way, from a safe position it is impossible to immediately open fire from a TT.
    even with a cartridge sent to the chamber.
    sad
    1. 0
      26 January 2012 22: 04
      So I'm somehow wrong! All my life I spent with a cartridge sent to the chamber. And whether the weapon is on guard or ready for battle - it was the same for me. Not a single random shot. Although life threw in various situations.
  11. +3
    8 February 2012 20: 33
    Quote: Victor123
    All my life I spent with a cartridge sent to the chamber.


    with TT spent all his life?
    Do you work as a bandit?
    1. Old prdun
      +1
      8 February 2012 20: 47
      More likely it was the same as in the holster: a cucumber or a pistol. wink

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