From simple to complex

139
A little more than 10 years ago (06.07.2005), when our new Navy was just beginning to be built (its ancestor, the Watchman, will be launched on 16.05.2006) I’m very much respected by Rear Admiral Anatoly Shlemov (for the fact that his words very rarely diverge from ), then - the head of the department of orders and deliveries of ships, naval armaments and military equipment of the Russian Defense Ministry, before that - the head of the naval shipbuilding department, and now (at least on 03.07.2015) - the head of the USC defense order, said



"The RF Ministry of Defense determined the priorities and sequence of actions for surface ships of the main classes. The idea of ​​the Navy command, supported by naval science - the consistent creation of lead ships: first a corvette, then a frigate, then a destroyer and then an aircraft carrier. The order is determined by the tasks and the required funding: moving from a small ship to a larger one, industry and the fleet will consistently carry out the general R&D program for new naval weapons ... Part of the spent corvette will go to the frigate, then the destroyer and so on "(ref. 1).

Despite the unfortunate delays in accomplishing the tasks initially set, it is gratifying to realize that the policy of the "party and government" with respect to the naval forces has remained the same over the past ten years. This is what a very recent (unfortunately, anonymous) source of a well-known news agency said: "Designing a promising Russian aircraft carrier for the Russian Navy will begin no earlier than 2020 of the year ... Such work is underway. It will be transferred to a specific phase from 2020 of the year. Plans that exist today, the aircraft carrier will be built in the third decade of the XXI century. Design - from 2020, built [will] to 2030, [2035 - A.Sh.] ...

This is logical if we analyze military shipbuilding over the past 20 years ... Everything fits into the principle from small to large, because for these two decades it was necessary to create new production facilities and modernize old ones, which will allow the 2030 to approach construction of large vessels "( end of quotation, reference 2).

What have we managed to do over the years? Despite the general (including the blog’s author) dissatisfaction with the construction of warships, there is certainly achievement and, most importantly, they all follow the general line drawn by 11 years ago (or even earlier, according to some sources, by the commander in chief of the Navy, V. Kuroyedov):

1) 4 was built and 8 corvettes of 20380 ave. And 20385 (total 12) were built - multipurpose combat surface ships (BNK) of the near-sea 4 generation (the youngest link of our future sea power);

2) 4 frigate are built. 22350 Ave. - BNK of 4 long-distance sea zone (1 is being tested), 2 sentry ship (frigate) are built. 11356 AHK - BNK of 3-plus long-distance sea zone are being built (4 is being tested) 1); if suddenly three TFRs for which there is no GTD will be sold to India, instead of them three others will be laid (I hope 10);

3) by June 2016. The Northern PKB was supposed to finish the draft design of the destroyer Ave. 23560 - the multipurpose BNK of the ocean zone (at the end of 2015 was completed on 80%) and proceed to the technical project; the laying of the ship is planned for 2019 g .;

4) it seems that at present the Nevsky PKB is carrying out design studies (avant-project options) of the new aircraft carrier for the Russian Navy (simply because the NPKB has to do something in the run-up to the big work), the beginning of the draft design is planned for 2020 for an adult ", bookmark - for the end of 2025

As you can see, there is really nothing to boast about, so this record is for believers. Believers that once in 11 years they did not back down from the once-adopted program, we will not back down again, that we will learn how to build ships again quickly, and after 35, we will finally build a balanced military fleet, which in terms of size and displacement = 2 / 5 ‒ 3 / 5 is American, and by combat power equivalent to it, that our carrier groups (CAG), or rather, aircraft carrier groups will carry out military service in the Atlantic (Mediterranean) and in the Pacific (Indian) on a permanent basis, and the flag of St. Andrew will be as n ivychnym in every corner of the world's oceans, as now the Stars and Stripes.
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  1. +31
    August 12 2016
    "... where am I, and where tomorrow ..."

    Let's live - we'll see.
    1. +10
      August 12 2016
      How slow is the fleet update! It would be good if "the thunder did not strike", it is too late to be baptized. Will !!! Even Peter the First understood that without the Navy there would be no great State! I hope our management understands this too!
      1. +30
        August 12 2016
        So what's the problem? Sit down at the appropriate enterprises and make your contribution to the development of the Navy of RUSSIA, and not here knocking on the keys and sobbing that something is going slowly with us.
        1. +11
          August 12 2016
          There is nothing particularly to brag about, therefore this record is for believers. Those who believe that once in 11 years they have not deviated from the once adopted program, we will not back down in the future, that we will learn how to quickly build ships again and in 35 years we will finally build a balanced navy,


          We need to do it before we start today, we’ll lose even more time, there were a lot of mistakes and omissions, now we have to make up.
          1. +14
            August 12 2016
            Plus crews, equipped basing places and support services, including support vessels, competent senior officers who can manage ships and groups of ships, experienced fleet commanders who will set tasks ..
            We will make iron. Sure! Though not as fast as we would like. But this is only iron. And that is precisely why it is pointless to build everything at once - it will take more than one year, or even a decade, to train personnel at all levels.
        2. +24
          August 12 2016
          I am also not happy with the crime rate, the quality of the products, the fact that forests (in my region) are cut down a lot, the quality of utilities and so on! According to your logic, I should also be a policeman, a farmer, a forester and a house manager ??? Are there many things for me ??? I gave the fleet four years of my life, and my heart - forever!
          1. -7
            August 12 2016
            So be the President, make life better .. You are our fair ...
            Quote: Hunter
            I am also not happy with the crime rate, the quality of the products, the fact that forests (in my region) are cut down a lot, the quality of utilities and so on! According to your logic, I should also be a policeman, a farmer, a forester and a house manager ??? Are there many things for me ??? I gave the fleet four years of my life, and my heart - forever!
            1. +14
              August 12 2016
              Quote: dmi.pris
              So be the President, make life better .. You are our fair ...
              Quote: Hunter
              I am also not happy with the crime rate, the quality of the products, the fact that forests (in my region) are cut down a lot, the quality of utilities and so on! According to your logic, I should also be a policeman, a farmer, a forester and a house manager ??? Are there many things for me ??? I gave the fleet four years of my life, and my heart - forever!

              request not to hell yourself what a career growth, from the ship to the president! And in just an hour! Well Straight grown in my own eyes! fellow How to get out of vacation, I’ll go to find out where they teach presidents! Plus from me!
              1. -2
                August 12 2016
                Alexei, everything is in your hands .. Dare ..
                Quote: Hunter
                Quote: dmi.pris
                So be the President, make life better .. You are our fair ...
                Quote: Hunter
                I am also not happy with the crime rate, the quality of the products, the fact that forests (in my region) are cut down a lot, the quality of utilities and so on! According to your logic, I should also be a policeman, a farmer, a forester and a house manager ??? Are there many things for me ??? I gave the fleet four years of my life, and my heart - forever!

                request not to hell yourself what a career growth, from the ship to the president! And in just an hour! Well Straight grown in my own eyes! fellow How to get out of vacation, I’ll go to find out where they teach presidents! Plus from me!
                1. +1
                  August 12 2016
                  Nice to meet you, Dmitry! A month ago, by the way, was in your places, well, not far in Tikhoretsk and Novoaleksandrovsk! Good there you have it!
                  1. -1
                    August 12 2016
                    Quote: Hunter
                    Nice to meet you, Dmitry! A month ago, by the way, was in your places, well, not far in Tikhoretsk and Novoaleksandrovsk! Good there you have it!

                    Alex, excuse me not the topic. I'm just a resident of the Krasnodar Territory, and I was interested in your phrase. And the question arose, where did you come from, what did you like Tikhoretsk and Novoaleksandrovskaya? hi
                    1. 0
                      August 12 2016
                      Quote: Vladimir 1964
                      Quote: Hunter
                      Nice to meet you, Dmitry! A month ago, by the way, was in your places, well, not far in Tikhoretsk and Novoaleksandrovsk! Good there you have it!

                      Alex, excuse me not the topic. I'm just a resident of the Krasnodar Territory, and I was interested in your phrase. And the question arose, where did you come from, what did you like Tikhoretsk and Novoaleksandrovskaya? hi

                      Vladimir, I'm Tyumenets! He was traveling with relatives. He was heading to the sea, to Olginka. I liked nature, you have the earth, stick a stick, it will turn green, fruits - vegetables! We have been cool all summer, but now it’s 30. Well, nothing, and money will ever reach you, fix the infrastructure!
                      1. 0
                        August 12 2016
                        Quote: Hunter
                        Vladimir, I'm Tyumenets! He was traveling with relatives. He was heading to the sea, to Olginka. I liked nature, you have the earth, stick a stick, it will turn green, fruits - vegetables! We have been cool all summer, but now it’s 30. Well, nothing, and money will ever reach you, fix the infrastructure!

                        Alexey, my mother is from Tyumen, from Bogandinka. What is your nature there, the song! Memories of course 30 years ago. Mountain ash at my grandmother's, mushrooms, berries and, most importantly, you have a different people there. Not at all the same as in the Kuban. And I don't want to talk about Kuban, I will be glad if you like Olginka. Although, as a local resident, I have to admit that after certain natural disasters, Olginka was never restored, so "lips are smeared before the season." In general, I feel sorry for you, the inhabitants of Russia, when you come to us in the Caucasus, they rob you in full, providing a minimum of services.
                        God forbid that your vacation is successful! I wish you success and happiness. hi
                      2. -1
                        August 12 2016
                        Yeah, the service in the Caucasus is certainly awful, but I hardly felt it, my brother had an apartment in Olginka, so I checked it, at the same time I rested, the sea is class! Past Bogandinki, drove through yesterday, they are repairing the road there. There are very few mushrooms, it was dry, but it seems they should go, but this year there will be a sea of ​​cranberries! Thanks for the wishes, and all the best to you!
                      3. +1
                        August 12 2016
                        Quote: Hunter
                        Yeah, the service in the Caucasus is certainly awful, but I hardly felt it, my brother had an apartment in Olginka, so I checked it, at the same time I rested, the sea is class! Past Bogandinki, drove through yesterday, they are repairing the road there. There are very few mushrooms, it was dry, but it seems they should go, but this year there will be a sea of ​​cranberries! Thanks for the wishes, and all the best to you!

                        I will not comment, apparently you yourself understand everything. But your mention of cranberries is horror! How I "hate" you, people who at least know what a cranberry is, and even more so who have the opportunity to use it in natural conditions. UHHHH, what a delicious thing.
                        Good rest Alexey, from the bottom of my heart, hi and write about the beak no more! The toad will strangle me, of course. stop
            2. 0
              August 14 2016
              To become president, you must be either a multimillionaire in the dollar equivalent, or a protege of the oligarchs. A simple patriot simply does not have money for an election campaign. Democratic elections are a myth for idiots.
        3. +3
          August 12 2016
          Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
          So what's the problem? Sit down at the appropriate enterprises and make your contribution to the development of the Navy of RUSSIA, and not here knocking on the keys and sobbing that something is going slowly with us.

          Apparently you are already working on it, and not "knock on the keys here" ...)
        4. 0
          August 14 2016
          The problem is the capitalists in the Kremlin. This is the only problem. Not criticizing the internet.
          1. +1
            August 15 2016
            Quote: cast iron
            The problem is the capitalists in the Kremlin. This is the only problem. Not criticizing the internet.
            The problem is not with the capitalists, but specifically with traders, those who lobby for the interests of banal trade to the detriment of production. Now we can blaspheme the security forces of all stripes, up to Putin, and meanwhile, the security forces, being conservatives, now defend the interests of production, industry, the real sector of the economy. Trade, finance, stock speculation - the patrimony of the so-called liberal wing of the government, they are also the economic bloc. With the recognition of the individual successes of this block (in particular, the creation of the stabilization fund), the general inefficiency of the financial and economic strategy was recognized. The security forces are gradually squeezing this block, in particular, Kudrin has been reduced to a "freelance" expert, but there is still a lot to shovel in this block, including a private shop of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation. Here they are all capitalists, but liberal capitalists are pulling us into the abyss, and only the strengthening of the production workers, technocrats will save Russia. The last personnel shifts among the governors of key regions have been made in this direction, so the work is ongoing, it is not easy and not quick. Changing elites is not simpler or faster than building an entire fleet.
        5. +2
          August 14 2016
          Oops. And let's everyone do their own thing. The thing that a person is able to do best, i.e. work by vocation and education. And the fact that many of us, in our free time from life, knock on the keys, so it's even good ... so we can discuss with you, on the topic "Everyone can build ships, or some can have tanks"
        6. +1
          August 15 2016
          Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
          So what's the problem? Sit down at the appropriate enterprises and make your contribution to the development of the Navy of RUSSIA, and not here knocking on the keys and sobbing that something is going slowly with us.

          And why should I give up my profession, which I devoted 8 years to training, and go to the factory? After all, when you get something sick you will run to the doctor, and I'm already at the factory. Do you see this so-so?
      2. 0
        August 12 2016
        Quote: Hunter
        How slow is the fleet update! It would be good if "the thunder did not strike", it is too late to be baptized. Will !!!

        Thunder will not strike. Making a decision to attack Russia is possible only after enormous preparatory work, bringing the troops and fleet to the borders of Russia at a certain distance. And before that, the industry of Europe and the United States should completely switch to the production of military products. Issues of mobilization of the population - this generally means a specific goal - WAR. Neither Europe nor the United States needs a nuclear war. What then to do in Russia?
        About the fleet. The fleet has generally the most labor-intensive, complex and time-consuming production. The following video helps to understand this:
      3. -2
        August 13 2016
        can you make a financial contribution?
      4. 0
        August 14 2016
        I would like to supplement the list with more modern MRK, the ships are of course small, but armed with "calibers", so it's still a formidable force. Abroad there are corvettes of a similar displacement.

        MRK project 21631 (Buyan- "M") 5 built and 4 more laid and under construction
        XRM project 22800 - 4 is under construction and another contract signed on 8
        22160 project patrol ships - almost a full corvette - 4 is under construction and a contract has been signed for 2
        Universal patrol ships of the 23550 project - Arctic icebreakers with calibers. while the contract for 2 pieces is signed
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +5
      August 12 2016
      St. Andrew's flag on an aircraft carrier? And who are we going to colonize if our VKS funds reach any point of the ball faster than bombers? Or, why are nuclear submarines worse than these aircraft carriers? Price and efficiency are clearly not proportionate.
      1. +7
        August 12 2016
        Quote: siberalt
        And who are we going to colonize if our VKS funds reach any point of the ball faster than bombers? Or, why are nuclear submarines worse than these aircraft carriers?

        You do not understand, without them (aircraft carriers), kitchen strategists are not comfortable in chatting. smile
        1. +12
          August 12 2016
          Colleagues, today is the Day of the Russian Air Force!
          I congratulate all our Ikars on the Holiday! Especially the guys fighting in Syria and carrying combat duty!
          1. +3
            August 12 2016
            Quote: Monos
            Colleagues, today is the Day of the Russian Air Force!
            I congratulate all our Ikars on the Holiday! Especially the guys carrying the warring in Syria and carrying combat duty!

            I join with the most sincere wishes. Peace over your head, well-being in the family and so that the number of take-offs equals the number without emergency landing. drinks
          2. +10
            August 12 2016
            Quote: Monos
            All of our Ikarov I congratulate you !

            Quote: NEXUS
            Join
            are you serious and these people talk about the exam? Do you know the fate of Icarus ??? Well, you give a pancake ... lit a primer?
            1. +3
              August 12 2016
              Flag, Andrey Yuryevich, flag, commentator feelWhen, it will be possible to congratulate the mighty Air Fleet of Moldova, and, God forbid, Romania ...?! belay
              1. +6
                August 12 2016
                Quote: ALABAY45
                When, it will be possible to congratulate the mighty Air Fleet of Moldova

                They have it there in Moldova on the same day as Plasterer Day is celebrated. It seems to be a well-deserved person, but such elementary things have to be explained!
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                Do you know the fate of Icarus?

                Like 2 fingers. Yes :

                Normal high school. For some reason, a history teacher will be absent for a long time. In order not to disrupt the educational process, it was decided that other teachers will lead his lessons. The first to conduct a history lesson was for a teacher of initial military training, a reserve colonel, a former military pilot, and an accident investigation specialist.

                - At the entrance of the senior in rank into the room the command is "quietly"!
                - So, now it's normal, free. Sit down.
                - Your teacher is absent for objective reasons, and I will spend today's history lesson. The theme of our lesson ...
                The colonel hurriedly flips through a magazine with lesson plans.
                - Yeah, the mythology of ancient Greece ... Great!
                - Well, who will enlighten us on this issue ...
                The Colonel put on his glasses and studied a class magazine for five minutes. Then with a sigh he pushes him aside and begins to study the class. Blurs in a smile, noticing the student pulling his hand.
                “Here you are, young man, what do you want to convey to our knowledge?”
                The student tries to start answering, but the colonel breaks him in frustration.
                “Military ... course ... sorry, the student must give his name before giving an answer.”
                The student jumps up, freezes at a command at attention, calls his surname and walks out to the board with a clear, marching step.
                “After all, you can when you want,” the colonel said with satisfaction, “I am listening to you.”
                In the same clear, intelligible voice, the student retells the myth of Daedalus and Icarus. The colonel listens with genuine interest.
                “How, and is that all?” - at the end of the student’s answer, he exclaimed.
                “What does it mean, that was all that was in the textbook, come on, give it to me here!” Having opened the textbook on the right page, the colonel first reads it fluently, then, with a grunt, begins to study more carefully, looks at the following pages, reads the table of contents, and having spent a quarter of the lesson on this matter, with annoyance pushes the textbook away from him.
                - Well, what to take from these historians! The most serious accident with the death of the flight crew and just a couple of lines! Humanities, in a word.
                “Oh yes, you sit down, five,” the colonel recalled the student standing by the blackboard. “You know the material well, but I’ll increase the score for the drill line.”
                “And you and I,” he turned to the class, “now we will analyze this case in detail, eliminate, so to speak, the gaps in your education.”
                The colonel paced forward along the board. He was clearly at ease now.
              2. +5
                August 12 2016

                “So what do we know?” During the flight on the route the island of Crete, and according to unverified data, the island of Sicily, - the colonel drew two circles on the board and drew a line between them, - An accident occurred, in severity referred to as a catastrophe.
                - The bottom line is: the follower Icarus showed an act of air hooliganism, arbitrarily changed the mode and profile of the flight. As a result, the thermal effect on the aircraft exceeded the established limits, which caused the weakening of its structure, and, further, destruction. The destroyed apparatus collided with the water surface, the pilot Icarus died.
                - Leading Daedalus stopped the further flight on the given route and made an emergency landing on the first suitable site, that is, an island whose name the history has not preserved.
                “But,” the colonel again turned to the class, “we are interested in what else were there any flight violations that directly or indirectly contributed to the development of the emergency?”
                “If you carefully read the document,” the colonel nodded at the textbook, “you will find a lot.”
                “First,” the colonel bent his finger, “the Departure was not authorized by King Minos, and this is a crime in itself.
                - Secondly, the preparation of Icarus was clearly insufficient and was conducted with violations. Daedalus focused solely on flight practice and missed theoretical training.
                - Third, actions in special cases were not practiced.
                - Fourth, I did not find any mention of static testing of Daedalus’s aircraft, not to mention its certification according to ICAO airworthiness standards.
                - Fifth, the flight was carried out in the absence of life-saving equipment on board.
                - Sixth, the management of the group during the flight was unsatisfactory. In fact, the leading Daedalus retired from his duties and only passively watched the evolution of the led Icarus.
                “Do you want to say something, young man?” - the colonel noticed the student, desperate pulling his hand.
                - What are you saying? Overheating - erroneous version? Yes, with the rise to a height, the temperature drops ...
                “And you know how to see and think, young man,” the colonel said approvingly, “I have missed this fact, it seems that here we are dealing with concealing the real circumstances of the disaster ...”
                - What's your last name? I put you a solid five! The colonel leaned over the magazine.
                - A deuce you for what?
                - For what you said about the uprising of Spartak? What did it take place under the leadership of Romantsev? Um, and under whose leadership could Spartak still play?
                - By the way, how did they play yesterday? Two-zero win? Good news.
                “Okay, I'll bet you another five.” Close the deuce. It is not good for such a bright head to spoil indicators. I hope that you, young man, have your say in the history of the accident investigation.
                The bell announced the end of the lesson.
                “One minute,” the colonel said, “a few words.”
                - In general, I liked the class, deep knowledge, the ability to think. Only the next lesson will be replaced by an informatics teacher. What is his plan there?
                The colonel looked into the notebook.
                - Yeah, the fall of Troy, as a vivid example of what the installation of externally attractive, but unverified elements can lead to.
                - Go for it!
                Hi amateurs wink !
                drinks
                1. +1
                  August 12 2016
                  Not weak, you, "struck"! belay This, from malnutrition ... Here, and I have a similar problem: my wife, from time to time, hides from me smoked sterlet, aspic from perch with horseradish, parsley and dill, fried squinting (15-20 cm) in breadcrumbs with onions and "shelled" (grated pine nut) ... Oh, I would like to write "War and Peace-2" ... angry
                  1. 0
                    August 12 2016
                    Quote: ALABAY45
                    tartare perch with horseradish, parsley and dill

                    Only amateurs negative put in the dill YesHello, suspect! drinks
                    1. +2
                      August 12 2016
                      Quote: Angry Guerrilla
                      Only amateurs put in dill

                      But he needs a lot of parsley. Otherwise, lovers do not understand. laughing
                    2. 0
                      August 13 2016
                      So be it! I’ll go sneak to the fridge, I will have a mug like an amateur tongue and go to the resumption of food ... Hello, food prosecutor! hi
                2. +3
                  August 12 2016
                  Quote: Angry Guerrilla
                  Hi amateurs

                  Hello the most crazy ...! drinks ! Why did you stop talking? Continue on: "And a little about yourself" -
                  1. 0
                    August 12 2016
                    Quote: Tersky
                    "And a little about myself" -

                    Looks like morrral! soldier
                    Hi, touch probe! drinks
            2. +10
              August 12 2016
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              are you serious and these people talk about the exam? Do you know the fate of Icarus ??? Well, you give a pancake ... lit a primer?


              And will you talk to me about the exam? Do you even know this myth?
              I tell you: Icarus, a test pilot on a crude, untreated design, risked making the first test flight, but got carried away and flew too close to the Sun (as the myth says). The design of the carrier wing was not designed for high-atmospheric flight. The wax melted, the feathers crumbled, Icarus fell and died.
              This does not detract from the courage, courage and boldness of the thoughts of the pilot. He simply had little experience.
              And the aircraft designer Daedalus - his own father was to blame for everything that happened. Wax horseradish structural material, and preflight training was not carried out.

              P.S. It is difficult to smoke a gold medal. wink

              Alabay45 Want to find out what my flag is, come to visit: MO, s. Akatovo, Klinsky district. hi
              1. 0
                August 12 2016
                Quote: Monos
                This does not detract from the courage, courage and boldness of the thoughts of the pilot. He simply had little experience.

                for sure ... lol
                1. +5
                  August 12 2016
                  Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                  for sure ...


                  About dementia you know better. I am not in the subject.
                  It is a pity that these pilots did not know that you can just sit on the couch and fool around.



                  List of GLIC flight crew killed in test flights
                  1982.28.04

                  Honored Test Pilot of the USSR, Hero of the Soviet Union, Colonel Stogov Nikolai Ilyich.
                  He died during a test flight on a MiG-27 aircraft (Akhtubinsk).

                  1983.23.03
                  Test pilot, Lieutenant Colonel Golovin Viktor Vasilievich.
                  Test Pilot, Major Ilyin Alexander Petrovich.
                  Killed during a test flight on a MiG-23U aircraft (Akhtubinsk).

                  1989.13.12
                  1 class test pilot, Colonel Razbegaev Anatoly Petrovich.
                  Test pilot of the 2 class, Major Churkin Nikolay Pavlovich.
                  Honored Test Navigator of the USSR, Colonel Danilov Leonid Stepanovich.
                  Flight technician, captain Okhotnikov Sergey Pavlovich.
                  Bortmekhanik, warrant officer Metelsky Alexander Tadeushevich.
                  Killed while performing a test flight on a Mi-26 aircraft.

                  1990.31.05
                  Test pilot of the 2 class, Lieutenant Colonel Polukhin Sergey Anatolyevich.
                  Test navigator of the 1 class, Lieutenant Colonel Ketov Vladimir Nikolaevich.
                  Killed while performing a test flight on a Su-24 aircraft.

                  1992.09.04
                  Test pilot, Colonel Savchenko Valery Alekseevich.
                  Bortradist, Major Shevtsov Nikolai Ivanovich.
                  Killed during a test flight on a Yak-52 aircraft.

                  1992.13.10
                  Test pilot of the 1 class, military pilot of the 1 class, Colonel Podsukha Viktor Alekseevich.
                  He died during a test flight for certification of An-124 aircraft.

                  1994.11.03
                  Sioux 24M
                  Test pilot of the 1 class, Colonel Gorelov Vyacheslav Nikolaevich.
                  2 class test pilot, Colonel Kolbasko Valery Alexandrovich.
                  Killed during a test flight on a Su-24M aircraft (Akhtubinsk).

                  2011.06.23
                  Honored Test Pilot of Russia, Head of the FACE Colonel Alexander Kruzhalin.
                  Senior test pilot of the 1 class, chief of flight test service Colonel Spichka Oleg Leonidovich.
                  Killed during a test flight on a MiG-29 KUB, the new Russian carrier-based fighter.

                  Information provided by Colonel A. Slabuk
                  Preparation for publication: Sakharova Natalya


                  The whole list is here: http://www.ahtubinsk.ru/glits/died.shtml
                2. -1
                  August 14 2016
                  and where does the aviation and the motto of the Ministry of Emergencies?
              2. 0
                August 12 2016
                MO..MO ...? recourse This, somewhere out there, beyond the Urals ..?! Is this not the same territory where, at one time, the Siberian, Ural and Far Eastern divisions "timely" arrived, when the Fuhrer bit "on the side" ?!
                1. +5
                  August 12 2016
                  Quote: ALABAY45
                  MO..MO ...? recourse This, somewhere out there, beyond the Urals ..?! Is this not the same territory where, at one time, the Siberian, Ural and Far Eastern divisions "timely" arrived, when the Fuhrer bit "on the side" ?!


                  Hmm ... you Romanian flag in the profile would be just right.
                  1. 0
                    August 13 2016
                    God forbid! Leave this "gypsy shawl" with you hi
            3. 0
              August 12 2016
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              Quote: Monos
              I congratulate all our Ikars on the Holiday!
              Quote: NEXUS
              Are you joining seriously? and these people talk about the exam? Do you know the fate of Icarus ??? Well, you give a pancake ... lit a primer?

              Andrei Yuryevich, he laughed heartily at the commentary. I pay tribute, the definition of the level of development of a certain contingent of the site you have given correctly. good
            4. 0
              August 12 2016
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              are you serious and these people talk about the exam? Do you know the fate of Icarus ??? Well, you give a pancake ... lit a primer?

              Andrei Yurievich, succinctly, competently and almost tactfully. laughing
          3. +1
            August 13 2016
            Quote: Monos
            Colleagues, today is the Day of the Russian Air Force!
            I congratulate all our Ikars on the Holiday! Especially the guys fighting in Syria and carrying combat duty!


            time is inexorably striving forward, I did not study the site today, really, no one remembered the Kursk?
            everything is somehow about achievements, Ukraine, and other holidays.
            16 years have passed.
            I think I will never forget that nervous "she drowned".

            they forgot about you then, right away.

            not everyone has forgotten.
            guys we remember about you.
            remember and do not forget.

            Sorry for wedging into your holiday.
      2. +2
        August 12 2016
        We are not going to colonize anyone. We have nuclear weapons, BUT, we do not want to destroy anyone. So we MUST be aircraft carriers, just in case, like nuclear weapons. The status of the state is binding.
        1. +4
          August 12 2016
          Quote: dr.star75
          We are not going to colonize anyone. We have nuclear weapons, BUT, we do not want to destroy anyone. So we MUST be aircraft carriers, just in case, like nuclear weapons. The status of the state is binding.

          It is very difficult to explain this to people who have seen a real warship only in the picture, who do not understand that even the appearance of a first-class ship on foreign shores makes the adversaries able to negotiate! For whom the ultimate dream is RTOs that can only guard borders. For aircraft carriers, the question is really complicated. One issue will not be solved, even two crews will not form. But the destroyers and cruisers were needed yesterday, while people are there and have not lost experience!
      3. 0
        August 14 2016
        You are right about the price. The fleet itself is a very expensive pleasure and not everyone can afford it. But nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers are fundamentally different in their properties and capabilities, many of which are unavailable or less effective. I give examples
        1 Demonstration of the flag. The nuclear submarine is clearly not suitable for this important function, its trump card is secrecy, and it is not always necessary. Sometimes openness and window dressing are needed, most notable summits or visits with the participation of senior officials of the state are made precisely with the presence of surface ships, on board of which meetings are often held , receptions of large military delegations ... Strengthening the community and window dressing is one of the chips of the above-water component.
        2 nuclear submarines are not able to carry out air defense duty, to collect intelligence of a certain nature, as a command post is not suitable, to deal with all kinds of barmoley ... And so on.
        At least one nuclear-powered aircraft carrier equipped with an air group for various tasks must be in operation.
    4. 0
      August 12 2016
      "Science is the main kings - to know the properties of their people and the benefits of their land." We have always been masters of non-standard approaches, I think we will master it this time too.
    5. +2
      August 12 2016
      Quote: A-Sim
      ... where am I, and where tomorrow ... "

      There is nothing particularly to brag about, therefore this record is for believers. Those who believe that once in 11 years they have not deviated from the once adopted program, we will not back down in the future, that we will learn how to quickly build ships again and in 35 years we will finally build a balanced navy, which will be = 2 / in terms of number and displacement 5‒3 / 5 of the American, and in terms of combat power equivalent to it
      I do not live ... sorry, for the sake of it, it was worth it, but apparently not destiny to see your own, powerful fleet ... what
      1. +3
        August 12 2016
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        I do not live ... sorry, for the sake of it, it was worth it, but apparently not destiny to see your own, powerful fleet ...

        The namesake, well, put aside! You will live and be glad and point. Are you all clear, Comrade Marshal?
        1. +2
          August 12 2016
          I will pull! for one or two, do not take! wink hi
          1. +1
            August 12 2016
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            I will pull! for one or two, do not take!

            Free! Introductory clear? Perform! soldier good
    6. 0
      August 15 2016
      One can only hope and wait for the St. Andrew flag to proudly develop on the expanses of the oceans already on the latest ships of the Russian Navy !!!
  2. +10
    August 12 2016
    Business is time!
    I’ll come from the sea to settle on the Nevsky Design Bureau, things will go faster!
    1. +6
      August 12 2016
      Quote: Serge Boss
      Business is time!

      So the fact of the matter is that over time it’s somehow not very. How did the author of the article write there?
      first a corvette, then a frigate, then a destroyer and then an aircraft carrier.
      ?
      Let's count. In 1917, a revolution took place in Russia. As a result, a change in the political system and the collapse of the economy, which had to be restored. And in 1941 we were forced to join the war. 24 years have passed since the change of state system. In 1991, the political system changed again, entailing the collapse of the economy. And now it's 2016. That is, 25 years have passed. At the same time, at the time of entry into the war, new patrol ships, destroyers, light cruisers were already built, and heavy cruisers and battleships were under construction. And today, at best, we have passed the stage of patrol ships - that is, the construction of corvettes (guard patrols) is underway and, in scanty numbers, the fleet receives frigates (destroyers). We only dream of large missile cruisers and aircraft carriers. So where is the time and where is it?
      1. +3
        August 12 2016
        Quote: Verdun

        Let's count. In 1917, a revolution took place in Russia. As a result, a change in the political system and the collapse of the economy, which had to be restored. And in 1941 we were forced to join the war. 24 years have passed since the change of state system. In 1991, the political system changed again, entailing the collapse of the economy. And now it's 2016. That is, 25 years have passed. At the same time, at the time of entry into the war, new patrol ships, destroyers, light cruisers were already built, and heavy cruisers and battleships were under construction. And today, at best, we have passed the stage of patrol ships - that is, the construction of corvettes (guard patrols) is underway and, in scanty numbers, the fleet receives frigates (destroyers). We only dream of large missile cruisers and aircraft carriers. So where is the time and where is it?

        Maybe because priorities have changed? For example, people are better treated than in Stalin’s times, aren’t they? That there are new types of weapons that are much more effective than the fleet. And, what is important for our country, cheaper. And how, during the Great Patriotic War, were things with the submarine fleet?
        1. +3
          August 12 2016
          Quote: Muvka
          And how, during the Great Patriotic War, were things with the submarine fleet?

          Quantitatively - not very. But most countries entered the war with a small composition of submarine forces. Germany, if I am not mistaken, has tripled its composition over the WWII years.
          Maybe because priorities have changed? For example, people are better treated than in Stalin’s times, aren’t they?
          Do you think that it’s better to treat people not to work normally and earn honestly?
          That there are new types of weapons that are much more effective than the fleet.
          The Fuhrer, for example, also believed that he had such weapons. For example, aviation. But the presence of the "little effective" British fleet still did not allow the Germans to land on the coast of England.
          That there are new types of weapons that are much more effective than the fleet.
          Rocketry is a rather specific industry. I am not an expert and I cannot judge to what extent the technologies used there can be adapted for normal production. At the same time, shipbuilding, along with aircraft and automobile manufacturing, is a "locomotive industry" that affects the development of the economy as a whole. Therefore, the question of "price" in isolation from the entire economy in this case is inappropriate to consider. And then, if it was only about the fleet. Armata is the first new tank developed in 25 years! T-50 is the first new fighter.
      2. +5
        August 12 2016
        Quote: Verdun
        Let's count. In 1917, a revolution took place in Russia. As a result, a change in the political system and the collapse of the economy, which had to be restored. And in 1941 we were forced to join the war. 24 years have passed since the change of state system.

        Let's count. In the period from 1917 to 41, the USSR is the efforts of 15 republics! And the population of about 300 million with a positive birth rate is not 10 thousand people a year, taking into account mortality, but as Comrade Stalin used to say, "I have a Belgium born every two months." ...
        Quote: Verdun
        And today, at best, we have passed the stage of patrol ships - that is, the construction of corvettes (guard patrols) is underway and, in scanty numbers, the fleet receives frigates (destroyers). We only dream of large missile cruisers and aircraft carriers. So where is the time and where is it?

        Dear, For 25 years, Russia alone has paid all the debts of the USSR, has increased its economy many times, while today it has the 5th reserve gold reserve in the world. But she did not go through all these matters as part of 15 republics, but ONE! You recall how many military-industrial enterprises were in Soviet times? 24000 and cooperation with all republics. And now we have only 1350 enterprises. And what are you going to compare here?
        1. +2
          August 12 2016
          Quote: NEXUS
          Between 1917 and 41, the USSR is the efforts of 15 republics

          Do not distort. Firstly, 15 republics are by no means since 1917. Secondly, how could the citizens of Turkmenistan or Tajikistan (at least during the first five years) help in the development of heavy engineering? Have you seen a lot of citizens of the Central Asian republics at the lathe? This is no offense to them, but, nevertheless, a fact. And all cooperation is already in the seventies.
          Dear, For 25 years, Russia alone has paid all the debts of the USSR
          Yes, this is true, but Russia of the 1991 model is by no means Russia of the 1917 model, which had just emerged from the war with heavy human, material and territorial losses. At the same time, you will not eat the gold reserve, and paying debts would be much easier with a developed economy.
          And now we have only 1350 enterprises.
          I wonder where did they go? Is ZIL and AZLK, machine-tool plant them. Ordzhonikidze and machine-tool plant Krasny Bogatyr (as an example, the list is much wider) remained in Ukraine or in the Baltic states? belay
          1. +4
            August 12 2016
            Quote: Verdun

            Do not distort. Firstly, 15 republics are by no means since 1917. Secondly, how could the citizens of Turkmenistan or Tajikistan (at least during the first five years) help in the development of heavy engineering? Have you seen a lot of citizens of the Central Asian republics at the lathe? This is no offense to them, but, nevertheless,

            But didn’t we eat their meat and fruits with vegetables and don’t dress in their cotton clothes? Where am I distorting? And the employee will not work as a Stakhanovite if he is goalless and hungry.
            Quote: Verdun
            Yes, this is true, but Russia of the 1991 model is by no means Russia of the 1917 model, which had just emerged from the war with heavy human, material and territorial losses.

            So Russia, model year 91, came out with territorial losses, with a complete collapse of the economy before default and in the modern version of NEP ...
            Quote: Verdun
            I wonder where did they go? Is ZIL and AZLK, machine-tool plant them. Ordzhonikidze and machine-tool plant Krasny Bogatyr (as an example, the list is much wider) remained in Ukraine or in the Baltic states?

            And you are not too lazy, give a request to Google and you will be happy.
            1. -1
              August 12 2016
              Quote: NEXUS
              And you are not too lazy, give a request to Google and you will be happy.

              Why do I need Google? I can say so. ZIL - not so long ago on the site discussed in the subject, collapsed, does not let out cars. AZLK - a couple of workshops - Renault-Avtoframos (this is ten percent of the territory of the plant), and the rest - offices, warehouses, shopping malls. Machine-tool zd Ordzhonikidze - offices, warehouses, shopping malls, Krasny Bogatyr - offices, warehouses, shopping malls ... In general, everything is exclusively in a businesslike way.
              But didn’t we eat their meat and fruits with vegetables and don’t dress in their cotton clothes?
              And the machinery and equipment with which all this was grown from the Union republics from the air materialized?

              So Russia, model year 91, came out with territorial losses, with a complete collapse of the economy before default and in the modern version of NEP ...
              Yes, but I repeat again, at the very least, the country was prepared for war by 1941, the territories lost were returned, they gave education to people for free, they moved science and took second place in the world economy ... request Who knows, we have already caught up with Portugal, how were we going to? ..
              1. 0
                August 14 2016
                we in Portugal extinguish fires, and we lose planes, that means we surpassed them already, we put out our fires ...
  3. +14
    August 12 2016
    1) There are no 22350 frigates! None of these frigates have been adopted, they are raw and there are no motors for them. For frigates 11356, which could really strengthen the fleet and have reliable combat systems ready for use, there are no engines, and now three more nearly built ships are sold for pennies to India, leaving their fleet with bare backside. 2) The construction of corvettes stalled and they are being built in the Russian Federation longer than destroyers in China. In addition, project 20385 corvettes with shock rockets are no longer even laid. 3) RTOs do not have anti-submarine weapons, have very weak air defense and the maximum they can do is qualitatively replace missile boats, but not corvettes with frigates ... 4) If corvettes are built in Russia for 8 years, then how many years will it take to build a destroyer you can guess. At such a rate of renewal, the Russian fleet will soon be left without a fleet.
    1. +6
      August 12 2016
      Quote: Haloperidol

      No 22350 frigates

      I wonder what then passes the test?
      But ...
      None of these frigates are adopted
      Here is the truth!
      they are raw

      By no means
      there are no motors for them

      Motors put on cauldrons
      and now also three almost-built ships, for pennies, are sold to India

      The deal has not yet been finalized, but do you already know about its conditions?
      leaving your fleet bare-ass

      Fleet "with a bare bottom", or rather lacks ships for a completely different reason
      In addition, 20385 projectile rocket corvettes no longer even lay

      And thank God! A very mediocre project, which is clearly outdated!
      RTOs do not have anti-submarine weapons

      Separate flies from cutlets and MPCs from IPC. Completely different fu frigate like
      have very weak air defense

      I suggest a look at some western Corvettes! Well, even some frigates! A very sad situation!
      the maximum that they can do is qualitatively replace missile boats, but not corvettes with frigates

      Of course! The frigate, like the corvette, carries an anti-submarine helicopter!
      If corvettes have been built in Russia for 8 years, then how many years will it take to build a destroyer

      So the article says that in spite of everything you need to continue to bend your line! Not a single big deal can do without difficulties!
      At such a pace, the Russian fleet will soon be left without a fleet.

      Worse, we have no one to command ships! This is really a problem!
      Do not worry ahead of time! The real problems of the fleet will come later. Five or seven years from now!
      hi
      1. 0
        August 12 2016
        I suggest a look at some western Corvettes! Well, even some frigates! A very sad situation!
        we do not pay attention to "Arlie Burke" with "aegis" ...
        1. 0
          August 15 2016
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          "arlie burke"

          it’s a destroyer. Where have you seen frigates with a displacement of 10 tons.
      2. 0
        August 12 2016
        Quote: Rokossovsky
        Worse, we have no one to command ships! This is really a problem!
        Do not worry ahead of time! The real problems of the fleet will come later. Five or seven years from now!

        Pavel, the comment is competent, but you are very difficult to build it. Half of the visitors will not be able to read to the end. "Too Many Letters" hi
        PS wassat
    2. +4
      August 12 2016
      about ten years ago, and there wasn’t such a pace .. Little chicken pecking, don’t hysteria ..
      Quote: Haloperidol
      1) There are no 22350 frigates! None of these frigates have been adopted, they are raw and there are no motors for them. For frigates 11356, which could really strengthen the fleet and have reliable combat systems ready for use, there are no engines, and now three more nearly built ships are sold for pennies to India, leaving their fleet with bare backside. 2) The construction of corvettes stalled and they are being built in the Russian Federation longer than destroyers in China. In addition, project 20385 corvettes with shock rockets are no longer even laid. 3) RTOs do not have anti-submarine weapons, have very weak air defense and the maximum they can do is qualitatively replace missile boats, but not corvettes with frigates ... 4) If corvettes are built in Russia for 8 years, then how many years will it take to build a destroyer you can guess. At such a rate of renewal, the Russian fleet will soon be left without a fleet.
      1. +6
        August 12 2016
        Quote: dmi.pris
        about ten years ago, and there wasn’t such a pace .. Little chicken pecking, don’t hysteria ..

        The chicken egg is carried regularly. And it is desirable that the eggs are large. Otherwise, the chicken is served on the table.
        1. +1
          August 12 2016
          Speaking of chickens ... Forgot about Bush's legs? For twenty-five years ago there were no chickens on domestic shelves, now there are .. Patience, only patience (Karlsson)
          Quote: Verdun
          Quote: dmi.pris
          about ten years ago, and there wasn’t such a pace .. Little chicken pecking, don’t hysteria ..

          The chicken egg is carried regularly. And it is desirable that the eggs are large. Otherwise, the chicken is served on the table.
          1. +3
            August 12 2016
            Quote: dmi.pris
            Patience, only patience (Karlsson)

            This is how one friend of mine likes to quote when she suffers from constipation. laughing You can also do this:
            “Another ten thousand buckets of water, Signore,” and the golden key in our pocket!
            This is Duremar from the Golden Key, if anyone does not know. We can tolerate it. But will others let us be patient?
            Forget about Bush’s legs?
            No, I didn’t forget. Once we have already sold the country for these legs. They also endured everything.
            1. 0
              August 12 2016
              It’s a pity your friend, let him put an enema .. Well, you, Verdun (I don’t know the name, nickname is something like a pogonyalov or something) I advise you not to endure .. Go anywhere, to the shipyard, to the army, by a combine operator .. and ... keep up. Build more ships, grow bread, teach children. Engage in useful work, which I advise everyone .. Even you can spit in the face of the deputy of the State Duma, if you allow it .. By the way, a lot of people in 91 didn’t tolerate-ran to the barricades, held rallies for the bright kapbuduschee .. Something I do not see a holiday on their faces .. Do you also want to barricades?
              Quote: Verdun
              Quote: dmi.pris
              Patience, only patience (Karlsson)

              This is how one friend of mine likes to quote when she suffers from constipation. laughing You can also do this:
              “Another ten thousand buckets of water, Signore,” and the golden key in our pocket!
              This is Duremar from the Golden Key, if anyone does not know. We can tolerate it. But will others let us be patient?
              Forget about Bush’s legs?
              No, I didn’t forget. Once we have already sold the country for these legs. They also endured everything.
              1. +4
                August 12 2016
                Quote: dmi.pris
                You can even spit in the face of a deputy of the State Duma if they allow you to ..

                And who will allow me this? belay Ugh, I read, and such a plentiful salivation began ... It is a pity the deputy is not at hand.
                Go anywhere, to the shipyard, to the army, as a combine operator ... and ... go for it.
                Are you kidding, right? Now it is like sending three letters. Factories, shipyards ... We still need more and more "security". Grab it and don't let it go!
                1. 0
                  August 14 2016
                  Before you write nonsense, look at vacancies on job sites. By the way, you were advised really "popular" specialties, which are not paid badly either. "Security" in comparison with them requires less and their salary is small. Although the main thing is to say, and what to say well, h..en with him. Security is to blame for the slow progress of the fleet building program. belay
      2. +2
        August 12 2016
        And twenty-five years ago, two three ships of the first rank were built! As it is in our Russian, to the base and then ....
        1. +9
          August 12 2016
          Quote: Hunter
          And twenty-five years ago, two three ships of the first rank were built! As it is in our Russian, to the base and then ....

          But can you tell me where they were built? And where are these shipyards now? According to pike and our desire, we can’t restore the factories that privatized, robbed and produced needles for gramophones, you need time, time and a lot of money, that’s time and money and not give, that’s the worst.
          1. +3
            August 12 2016
            Quote: 79807420129
            Quote: Hunter
            And twenty-five years ago, two three ships of the first rank were built! As it is in our Russian, to the base and then ....

            But can you tell me where they were built? And where are these shipyards now? According to pike and our desire, we can’t restore the factories that privatized, robbed and produced needles for gramophones, you need time, time and a lot of money, that’s time and money and not give, that’s the worst.

            Yes, they built everywhere, if you are talking about Nikolaev, and at the Baltic Shipyard and at the Northern Shipyard and at Sevmash! Well, for what the heck OSK created for you? I wrote above that it was impossible to destroy this industry, did anyone suffer punishment for this?
      3. +2
        August 12 2016
        Quote: dmi.pris
        about ten years ago, and there wasn’t such a pace .. Little chicken pecking, don’t hysteria ..

        and 40 years ago, SUCH for sure there was no pace ...
    3. -1
      August 12 2016
      Quote: Haloperidol
      there are no motors for them

      motors ??? "Haloperidol" - cancel ... hurts the mind ... (joking) but yes ... that's right ...
    4. 0
      August 15 2016
      None of these frigates have been adopted,they are raw and for them there are no motors.
      Well, well ... not so bad wink
      1. 0
        August 15 2016
        Gorshkov not adopted. One of the members of the forum (forgot a nickname) was angry at Redut air defense missile systems, they say rockets after 3 seconds fall. These are rumors, of course, but the fact is clear: admission to the fleet has been delayed for a long time, the ship is not accepted for a reason. So the criticism is justified and unfortunately there is nothing to be corrected with a beautiful view.
        1. 0
          August 15 2016
          Gorshkov not adopted.
          Passes the final stage of state. tests.
          One of the members of the forum (forgot a nickname) was angry at Redut air defense missile systems, they say rockets after 3 seconds fall.
          In his imagination? laughing In the video, the slicing is just from the tests of this complex and it worked normally.
          These are rumors, of course, but the fact is clear: admission to the fleet has been delayed for a long time, the ship is not accepted for a reason.
          There were many problems there with weapons and with electronics and power plants (still remain). Only this for the most part everything has been decided already therefore:
          they are raw
          not true. hi
  4. +5
    August 12 2016
    Let’s wait and see, said the tigers. Plans of this kind are accepted for decades, and it is very difficult to adjust them. As for me - so let it be done!
    1. 0
      August 12 2016
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Plans of this kind are accepted for decades, and it’s very difficult to adjust them.

      And if you take a plan for a century, it’s impossible to correct it at all. And most importantly, from those who accepted such a plan, at the time of summing up the results, they are exactly bribes smooth.
  5. UVB
    +2
    August 12 2016
    So I wanted to live to see the entry into operation of a full-fledged Russian aircraft carrier! But with such forecasts on terms, alas, it is unlikely. Moreover, the terms tend to shift to the right.
    1. +3
      August 12 2016
      And why do you need it?
      1. UVB
        +2
        August 12 2016
        Quote: NordUral
        And why do you need it?

        Personally, I need it as a model in my collection. A full-fledged aircraft carrier, and not one, is needed in RUSSIA! I am Russian, born in RUSSIA, I love RUSSIA and I want RUSSIA to be a great power, including a sea one. By the way, comrade North Ural, share your experience, how to become a marshal in a year and a half?
    2. -1
      August 12 2016
      What for? Your youthful dream? Are you sorry for the pensioners? Teachers can still sail off to "business" ..... But what about the pensioners, not you military, but ordinary ones ...... or let them not pollute 1/7 of the land ??

      many have dreams and Wishlist, but you need to fit with the mind.
      1. +4
        August 12 2016
        Quote: Novel 11
        What for? Your youthful dream? Are you sorry for the pensioners? Teachers can still sail off to "business" ..... But what about the pensioners, not you military, but ordinary ones ...... or let them not pollute 1/7 of the land ??

        many have dreams and Wishlist, but you need to fit with the mind.

        Please explain the connection between the construction of ocean ships and pity for senior citizens and teachers? What do we have except pensioners and teachers in the country? Who is this, Kudrin told you? Well, listen further, he still will not say something!
    3. -3
      August 12 2016
      Quote: UVB
      So I wanted to live to see the entry of a full-fledged Russian aircraft carrier!

      What for? Your youthful dream? Are you sorry for the pensioners? Teachers can still sail off to "business" ..... But what about the pensioners, not you military, but ordinary ones ...... or let them not pollute 1/7 of the land ??

      many have dreams and Wishlist, but you need to fit with the mind.
  6. +4
    August 12 2016
    Schedule transition from simple to complex truncated.
    People say that in the original, everything ends on the Death Star.

    pisi:
    Then everyone starts having problems ...
  7. +1
    August 12 2016
    Vanga prophesied .. there will be space and space power under Russia .. as I understand it xs..but I believe that both the fleet and our ground units play a very significant role .. but I'm not Wang request
    1. +6
      August 12 2016
      It was so in the Union: the most powerful submarine fleet and leadership in space.
  8. -2
    August 12 2016
    As Stanislavsky said, “I don’t believe!” Knowing our realities, if a destroyer is laid down, it is not a fact that it will be built. And about the aircraft carrier, the strategies from the site "proved" that it was just a drank of the dough, and we (they, the strategists) do not need such a ship. They really forgot to ask the fleet, but these are trifles ...
    1. +1
      August 12 2016
      In addition to setting goals and allocating funds for their implementation, a monitoring system is needed. Tough. During the construction of the fleet, there are many dark documents signed by Serdyukov, which are still valid! Building a fleet is money, and it’s big. And they stick to hands
  9. +1
    August 12 2016
    The variety in the fleet of frigates and corvettes of the same type, but of different projects, says some of the vacillation in science and in the command of the Navy. The absence of its ship diesel and gas turbine engine also does not speak in favor of science. Rumors of frigates with YaSU in general raise the question, what do they smoke there? The overgrown destroyer project with YaSU says that the Fleet will not have a fairly massive destroyer. This means that the Fleet does not have ambitions not only for ocean open spaces, but even for the constant presence in the regions of geopolitical influence. Then the logical question arises: why do the Fleet need aircraft carriers at all?
  10. +6
    August 12 2016
    Words, words, some words .... Where are you? There is none of them. There is no power plant for ships of rank 2-3, there is no working air defense "Polyment Redut", there is not even a hint of the production of anything like a can of the "Mistral" type (and it is so necessary, so necessary, especially in Syria). The state defense order in the field of military shipbuilding has failed for several years in a row. But the majority, like zombies, continue to clap their hands and shout: "Hurray! We are developing!" Don't make people laugh. Who is developing? You cannot build anything more than 1500 tons with a displacement - order the hulls from the Chinese, and then fill them with our weapons. In 20 years from the fleet that we have there will be nothing left. And what in return? "Buyans" and "Karakurt". Zadolbali already "patriots" are bad.
    1. +3
      August 12 2016
      Twenty years later, nothing will possibly remain with me .. And the Russian Fleet is and will be. Remember the century before last and the beginning of the past, the fleet is defeated, but is being built and reborn again ..
      Quote: Neputin
      Words, words, some words .... Where are you? There is none of them. There is no power plant for ships of rank 2-3, there is no working air defense "Polyment Redut", there is not even a hint of the production of anything like a can of the "Mistral" type (and it is so necessary, so necessary, especially in Syria). The state defense order in the field of military shipbuilding has failed for several years in a row. But the majority, like zombies, continue to clap their hands and shout: "Hurray! We are developing!" Don't make people laugh. Who is developing? You cannot build anything more than 1500 tons with a displacement - order the hulls from the Chinese, and then fill them with our weapons. In 20 years from the fleet that we have there will be nothing left. And what in return? "Buyans" and "Karakurt". Zadolbali already "patriots" are bad.
    2. -1
      August 12 2016
      I like your "nickname" - neputin!
      Boldly, relevant .... I'm the same!
      Only one big BUT - the current government is simply not able to change the situation in the Navy, due to its own impotence.
      They now have other tasks on the agenda - the "parliamentary majority", which should ensure the further plunder of the country!
      For the adherents of Putin and Co., look at the rate at which ships and submarines were brought into the fighting structure of the Red Army in the 30s by Stalin after the devastating years of revolutions and civil war and at the construction of a fleet in the "fat" 2000s with a "slave in the galleys" ... catches the difference, putinoids!
      1. +7
        August 12 2016
        Quote: kepmor
        catches the difference, putinoids

        And you, gentleman, comrade barin, wait for the labels to be glued, or you yourself can somehow become an oid, yourself, when you do something with your own hands, then you will be praised, and to Stalin, Mr. HAM, like to the moon with cancer, minus I didn’t set it, in many respects I agree with you, but there will be no plus for rudeness.
        1. -3
          August 12 2016
          Unlike you, vovanpain, I have never been and will not be any "... oid" due to my upbringing and my own convictions!
          A wolf sheep is not a companion .....
          1. +7
            August 12 2016
            Quote: kepmor
            Unlike you, vovanpain, I have never been and will not be any "... oid" due to my upbringing and my own convictions!
            A wolf sheep is not a companion .....

            Well, you don’t pull the wolf. They don’t look like a sheep.
      2. +6
        August 12 2016
        Quote: kepmor
        Only one big BUT - the current government is simply not able to change the situation in the Navy, due to its own impotence.

        The current government, smart friend, from 2000 to 2016 made our economy the fifth in the world. Or have you apparently forgotten trays all over the country, shuttles, etc. So I will remind you. What are you so zealously proud of then? What you think is not the same as GDP. God forbid, if only he thought so woodenly and narrow-mindedly like you.
        If there were such clever people like you and people like you in power, they would have been busy with Chechnya to this day, they would not have paid their debts, and our military would continue to paint grass and remove potatoes from the generals in the country.
        Quote: kepmor
        They now have other tasks on the agenda - the "parliamentary majority", which should ensure the further plunder of the country!

        Have you been robbed? There is nothing to teach your children no one, or work for breadcards? Sorry, but you are a balabol.
        1. -2
          August 12 2016
          Nexus! Only time "heals" people like you ....
          If you, "faithful", like all the realities of life in our "kingdom-state" - the flag is in your hands!
          Life in shit is the lot of "arthropods", excuse me for being straightforward!
          I do not intend to breed demogogy with "terpily"!
          Well-fed "hungry" will not understand ....
          1. +5
            August 12 2016
            Quote: kepmor
            Nexus! Only time "heals" people like you ....

            A lot of pathos in your vyser.
            Quote: kepmor
            If you, "faithful", like all the realities of life in our "kingdom-state" - the flag is in your hands!

            Show me at least one person who is happy with everything in his country. But it seems to me that Vlasov's army was formed from such "smart people" like you, "dissatisfied with the authorities" in the 42nd.
            Quote: kepmor
            I do not intend to breed demogogy with "terpily"!

            So "terpily" then you twist, not me. fool
            Quote: kepmor
            Well-fed "hungry" will not understand ....

            And how many do not give you, all one is not enough. A cunning balabol who only knows how to take offense and whine like a victim. Ugh ..
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. +2
                August 12 2016
                Quote: kepmor
                Yes, it is felt that my words "touched terpila's flimsy little soul" - so much stench ... you can suffocate!

                That is, such an amphibian comes here so as not to talk about the case, but stupidly, to engage in verbal ananism ... laughing Umishko is a penny, and applications for the ruble. fellow
                Quote: kepmor
                We finish the bazaar ... I do not communicate with the wretched!

                So I say, you creep up to squabble, and not talk. Spread your fingers, so that it is completely clear and understandable what kind of amphibian you are. laughing
                Quote: kepmor
                I’d better go plunge into the azure water of the Adriatic .....

                A person lives poorly ... very badly. Poor at all. I saw that I broke the piggy bank and went to bathe on a trifle collected in the Adriatic. laughing
                1. -2
                  August 12 2016
                  The fact of the matter is, my dear, Bessarabian peasant, that I do not go to the Adriatic on "small change from a broken piggy bank", but on legally earned money, taking into account considerable taxes!
                  I will not even answer your frank rudeness and cattle!
                  As my grandmother said - to be blissful at holy and holy fools SIN !!!!
                  1. +2
                    August 12 2016
                    Quote: kepmor
                    I will not even answer your frank rudeness and cattle!

                    Dear, you are rude to everyone, including me. Correctly your grandmother spoke, apparently looking at her granddaughter with regret.
                    Quote: kepmor
                    that I do not go to the Adriatic on "little change from a broken piggy bank", but on legally earned money, taking into account considerable taxes!

                    So who is crying here about "we live badly and bad power"? You go to the Adriatic, pay a lot of taxes ... and listen to your grandmother. What a poor, hungry and obedient boy grew up with his grandmother.
                    1. +4
                      August 13 2016
                      Nexus, you would, sorry, shut up. Counting other people's money and discussing it publicly is not a selyuk psychology. And the fact that VO is very, very sensitive to critical remarks, up to the "ban" without explanation, is an indisputable fact. In addition, the fact is blatant rudeness from the so-called. "marshals" in relation to ordinary site visitors, and I have come across this more than once. Consider this an official statement.
                      1. +1
                        August 14 2016
                        Quote: Neputin
                        Nexus, you would, sorry, shut up.

                        Dear, could you do this?
                        Quote: Neputin
                        Counting other people's money and discussing it publicly is not Selyuk psychology.

                        You do not distort. This character complains about the poor life and severity of existence, while talking about the fact that he rests on the Adriatic and pays taxes. I did not count his money and did not intend to, if you, dear, carefully read our discussion. There is nothing about hypocrisy and love for a simple idle talk. It does not matter how, but you have to cool the country, the head, and at the same time give yourself as a victim, with very correct and unformatted views of the non-Putinoid.
                        Quote: Neputin
                        In addition, the fact is blatant rudeness from the so-called. "marshals" in relation to ordinary site visitors,

                        I do not defend the "marshals", but before writing my post, I should probably also talk about the rudeness of "ordinary visitors".
                        Quote: Neputin
                        You can consider this an official statement.

                        I forgive your scribble in general I do not think at all ... maybe before you get into our conversation, you did not even bother to carefully read it and understand what it was all about. So you don’t have to blow bubbles and speak righteously so that someone shuts up.
        2. +1
          August 12 2016
          Quote: NEXUS
          The current government, a wise fellow, in the period from 2000 to 2016 made our economy the fifth in the world.

          Blimey!
          Quote: NEXUS
          So what you think is not like GDP.

          And what class does the gdp serve?
          Or is this not happening?
        3. +4
          August 13 2016
          The current government brought our economy to the 5th place after it lowered it from the second. This is the first thing. Further: since 1991, this government has robbed me three times: the first time in 1991 after the rise in prices, when I planned to buy myself a "six", and then bought a can of "Efes" beer with this money (I generally keep quiet about privatization). The second time I was robbed during a money exchange in 1993 - do not remember, ask your parents, they will tell you. The third time she robbed me in 1998, when the dollar in a week soared from 6 rubles to 30 and our state of emergency, which worked for rubles, and bought consumables and material for dollars went around the world and we distributed debts for another 3 years. So we don't need to tell us what kind of shitty patriots we are here, we were looking for opportunities to work and benefit people, and instead, our power showed us HER throughout our life. I spent the best years of my life for the good of this country, and as a result I sucked ... And after that I have no right to healthy criticism? I don't think ...
          1. +1
            August 14 2016
            Quote: Neputin
            The current government brought our economy to 5th place after it lowered it from the second.

            This is with a fright? The USSR fell apart in 1991, dear. Putin came to power in 2000. What are you talking about?
            Quote: Neputin
            The second time I was robbed during a money exchange in 1993 - do not remember, ask your parents, they will tell you. The third time she robbed me in 1998, when a dollar soared from 6 rubles a week in a week and our state of emergency, which worked for rubles, but bought consumables and material for dollars, went around the world and we gave out debts for another 30 years.

            Are you the only one so deceived and thrown? Such half of the country, who at the same time voted for Putin, without making these lamentations, that during the EBN they were stripped and razed. Putin is just trying to restore it at least partially. And the fact that now the ruble is crumbling and sanctions ... so claims must be made to Washington and to those who really do not like to see Russia strong. But it’s easier for you to drain everything on Putin.
            I tell you so respected, GDP is the same person as we are, and he is not the Lord God. And only because he did not let the country be torn up and destroyed in the 2000s, he was already honored and praised.
            And about the 2nd economy and now the 5th ... when it was the second economy, we lived in a large and friendly country from 15 republics, and now Russia is in splendid isolation thanks to the EBN, Mechny, Kravchuk and others like them. Putin’s last name is not on this list.
        4. 0
          August 14 2016
          and who are 4 above Russia? - just interesting, so-neighing :)
      3. 0
        August 12 2016
        Great !! Yes, we have no choice, how many do not vote at polling stations .. What do you suggest? Reincarnate Comrade Stalin?
        Quote: kepmor
        I like your "nickname" - neputin!
        Boldly, relevant .... I'm the same!
        Only one big BUT - the current government is simply not able to change the situation in the Navy, due to its own impotence.
        They now have other tasks on the agenda - the "parliamentary majority", which should ensure the further plunder of the country!
        For the adherents of Putin and Co., look at the rate at which ships and submarines were brought into the fighting structure of the Red Army in the 30s by Stalin after the devastating years of revolutions and civil war and at the construction of a fleet in the "fat" 2000s with a "slave in the galleys" ... catches the difference, putinoids!
      4. +4
        August 12 2016
        Quote: kepmor
        Only one big BUT - the current government is simply not able to change the situation in the Navy, due to its own impotence.

        For Crimea, I am ready to forgive the GDP of any jamb. Well, in addition, after the advent of GDP, for the first time in a long time, I began to feel pride in my country. So, in your terminology - am I a putinoid?
        1. 0
          August 13 2016
          Quote: Winnie76
          So, in your terminology - am I a putinoid?

          You are just incredibly cool belay
          Quote: Winnie76
          For the Crimea, I am ready to forgive the GDP of any jamb. Well, in addition, after the advent of GDP, I first started in a long time feel pride in their country.

          An interesting word "feel" in this context wink
          The display of a separate property of a material object that directly interacts with the senses is called
          feeling

          I wonder what kind of sensory organs you interact with displaying a separate property of a material object? laughing and cause a sensation? laughing

          “Could they define otherwise, somehow specifically define what I am, what sensation, what sensory perception? It is enough to raise the question clearly in order to understand what the greatest nonsense the Machians say when they demand from the materialists such a definition of matter. which would not be reduced to a repetition of the fact that matter, nature, being, the physical is primary, but spirit, consciousness, sensation, the psychic is secondary. "The denial of matter by them is a long-known decision of cognitive-theoretical issues in the sense of negating the external, objective source of our sensations, objective reality corresponding to our sensations. And vice versa, the recognition of the philosophical line that idealists and agnostics deny is expressed in definitions: matter is that, acting on our senses, it produces sensation; matter is an objective reality given to us in sensation.

          So, that your "feelings" are very subjective, these are yours, so to speak, purely personal feelings, something that is inspired by you laughing
          Quote: Winnie76
          forgive any jamb.

          this is on your part an unforgivable mistake wassat
    3. +10
      August 12 2016
      Quote: Neputin
      Words, words, just words .... Where are you? They are not here. There is no GEM for ships of rank 2-3,

      Are you sure of this? Or is it better to know from the sofa? Gas turbine production is going on at Rybinsk at a fast pace, the stand is already being completed, equipment is being installed, the foundry will be upgraded, the new will be launched soon, the only problem is that we haven’t done everything such installations, learning.
      Quote: Neputin
      Hooray! We are developing! "Do not tell people. Who is developing? You can not build anything more than 1500 tons of displacement

      Well, build that yell if YOU can.
      Quote: Neputin
      Zadolbali already "patriots" are bad.

      You are a colleague, no one was fucking, neither patriots are worthless, nor weeping radkins.
      1. +4
        August 13 2016
        I didn’t want to write anything, but I will answer you.
        1. Regarding the "powerful rate of production of the power plant" in Rybinsk. Back in 2000, 6 billion rubles were allocated for the construction of a test bench in Rybinsk. First question - where is the stand? The second question is 16 years - is it a strong pace?
        2. I, with your permission, do what I can and what I learned and improved all my life. I hope that I do it well. The only thing that keeps me in this work (funny salary - 22 tr) is the realization of the need for what I do for people who live next to me, and therefore for my country. And I'm sitting on the couch just because I'm on vacation right now.
        3. As for the "shitty patriots" I agree, I got a little excited, but the lack of elements of realism in some comments is annoying. Sincerely.
    4. -1
      August 12 2016
      Quote: Neputin
      "Mistral" (and it is so necessary, so necessary, especially in Syria)

      How is the wagon train?
  11. +6
    August 12 2016
    All this is fantasy. You need to defend with a simple weapon. As an example - tanks of the USSR and Germany. And you do not need to dream about the oceans with aircraft carriers. We need ships near and medium defense zones to combat submarines and equipped with air defense and missile defense. And as much as possible. If they attack us, then only massively and from all sides. And aircraft carriers, if they hang out in distant seas, will not help us, if they are not immediately sunk.
  12. +1
    August 12 2016
    Navi-shipbuilder is a well-known "hawk" of the ocean fleet - "there is more and more and actively use - regardless." I think everyone can dream about what he wants, one citizen regularly dreams about booking ships, another about the "correct" development of the fleet and aircraft carriers. There is nothing wrong with that, on the contrary, it is even interesting to read arguments and opinions that do not coincide with yours, there is always a chance to learn something new or unusual.
  13. +7
    August 12 2016
    Why no one remembers the Kursk nuclear submarine? Forgot? am
    I remembered ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. -4
      August 12 2016
      ... she drowned ...
      What else can you talk about after this "verbal diarrhea" ?!
      After these words he hated Putin, like Judas ....
      1. -3
        August 12 2016
        Comrade General, what was the GDP and the headquarters of the Navy supposed to do during the tragedy of the Kursk nuclear submarine at a time unfavorable for the country?
        I do not approve of the information vacuum during the tragedy, but I read on other resources that the GDP was pretty well financed from the amers, I hope the finances went to the country for good.
        But the sailors can no longer be returned to their families, God rest their souls, remember, we grieve.
      2. +1
        August 12 2016
        Quote: kepmor
        ... she drowned ...
        What else can you talk about after this "verbal diarrhea" ?!
        After these words he hated Putin, like Judas ....

        Submarines have always perished, and not only Russian ones. GDP to blame, can you explain? Should he personally check the torpedoes or forbid the boat from going on a hike?
        1. -1
          August 12 2016
          Which are American?
          1. +1
            August 12 2016
            Quote: Simpsonian
            Which are American?

            For example, USS Scorpion (SSN-589).
            1. +2
              August 12 2016
              For example Mark 48
        2. -3
          August 12 2016
          About "... to personally check torpedoes ...", Nexus, turn in to anyone, but not me, a torpedo-miner by education!
          None of our practical torpedoes, when an accumulator battery, oxygen and kerosene cylinders explode, is capable of causing such an instant increase in pressure and temperature in the 1st compartment of the "loaf" to detonate the ammunition! Do you have any idea of ​​the volume of this compartment? And even more so when this "blank" is in the TA!
          All these nonsense were invented by Kuroyedov, Popov and Motsak, and voiced by "the main ... addict of the fleet" - Dygailo!
          So do not tryndit if not in the subject ....
          Oh yes, I forgot who I’m dealing with ... he is a putinoid and a putinoid in Africa!
        3. +1
          August 13 2016
          Quote: NEXUS
          Quote: kepmor
          ... she drowned ...
          What else can you talk about after this "verbal diarrhea" ?!
          After these words he hated Putin, like Judas ....

          Submarines have always perished, and not only Russian ones. GDP to blame, can you explain? Should he personally check the torpedoes or forbid the boat from going on a hike?


          in verbiage and running eyes, in powerlessness, in the reluctance to reach out a hand (was on vacation, what), in CHEESE.
          that’s not how the president should behave.
  14. +4
    August 12 2016
    How many land divisions and brigades can be equipped with modern weapons for the money that will be spent on an aircraft carrier ??? Surely not a little. Conclusion: we do not have such a rich country that we should spend money on aircraft carriers, and we do not need it for defense.
    1. 0
      August 12 2016
      Everything is correct. The doctrines are different. Look at the root !!!
  15. 0
    August 12 2016
    All with a creak, but goes forward, before and this was not.
    1. +1
      August 12 2016
      Sorry, "before" is when?
      In the days of "Eltsin-Putin" or in the "Stalinist five-year plans" with "Brezhnev's stagnation" ????
  16. +3
    August 12 2016
    Damn, books have been read about the war in the Pacific Ocean, nothing the kids will grow up .... Admirals and generals are always preparing for the last war, I hope ours will not follow this wrong path ?? For me, so instead of an aircraft carrier it is better to have additional regiments - tank, fighter and air defense. Always needed! concentrate on the direction of the main blow, but where is it? Of course on land. And here, after watching, having heard and having read, they constantly scratch their greatness with aircraft carrier megalomania about how to dump a lot of dough on unnecessary giant targets, and even pull them somewhere in the depths of the oceans to the shores of Antarctica .... All this insanity has already passed when there were most of all squares and strove for parity on these same aircraft carriers, but as expected, the people did not pull, because half the world needed to be fed. I myself am more a sailor than an army man, so I think that our fleet should be compact and not too costly, especially in the conditions of the approaching era of robotic weapons and artificial intelligence ...... Who knows, not today, tomorrow there will be some satellites the size of a matchbox and through a video camera from space it will be possible to view their acne on the back online ..... - why then the giants? If an aircraft carrier is needed, then there is only one force, in case of any local conflicts like the Syrian, well, or to make friendly visits, to compete with zebras is useless! To do this, it is necessary to dissolve the army almost all and the budget will not pull - pensioners also want to eat. What interests me most is at whose expense or who will contain? Grandmothers and grandfathers? Yes, 1,5 hours ago I saw how one cheap soap was rubbed - it’s filthy to look in the richest country in the world, where there are not so many people, and older people are engaged in such nonsense, and not so rarely. It is better to think of OUR people than of domination on the world's oceans.
    1. +1
      August 12 2016
      Roman, sorry, accidentally minus slapped you!
      This corporation "Putin and sidekick" has no time to think "about its" people!
      They have so many "Jewish affairs" planned for the long years of plundering Russia that you and your "sedition" - caring for people - do not fit into their strategy of "thieves' lawlessness"!
      Put aside your illusions .... in our life everything will be much ... will be more piggy!
      1. +1
        August 12 2016
        Quote: kepmor
        Roman, sorry, accidentally minus slapped you!

        Are you kidding? I did not attach importance to these jokes here ...... I do not understand how it is possible to put signs to dissenters? There should be only one weapon on the forums - the word and the arguments.
      2. 0
        August 12 2016
        Quote: kepmor
        They have so many "Jewish affairs" planned for the long years of plundering Russia

        Yes Putin is a normal man yet laughing And who did not rob? Under Brezhnev the Great, the floor of the world was fed and thanks were left instead with empty pockets ..... Who else is Kolya 2nd, Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev? All of them have their hands to the elbow and folk remedies to the wind about the penultimate modestly keep silence ...... All have flaws ...... unless Alexander has the 3rd one more or less?
  17. +1
    August 12 2016
    Quote: Hunter
    Even Peter the First understood that without the Fleet there would be no great State! I hope our management understands this too!

    Alas. Now, at the pace of Peter, it’s impossible to build a modern fleet, and it’s criminal.
  18. 0
    August 12 2016
    You know, comrades, if this is an answer to Andrei’s article from Chelyabinsk, the answer is weak. Highly. But for the general positive - thanks to the unknown author. Like Andrei from Chelyabinsk - for his article. And Andrei's article was more interesting and rich. Yes, perhaps, and much more sincere. IMHO. hi
    1. 0
      August 12 2016
      Which one?
  19. -1
    August 12 2016
    It will be difficult for an aircraft carrier to find a proper place in the defensive strategy of the Russian Federation. After 20 years, artificial intelligence will most likely become dominant in making military-political decisions. Arrays of data and processing speeds will increase many times and most likely will make some traditional and effective types and systems of weapons an anachronism.
    Abolishing technologies are knocking on the door; in the end, everything in the compartment will cancel the person as such. That is, as it does not sound ironic even without nuclear war, only due to military-technical progress, a person will be defeated and destroyed by a machine, robot, cyberg, computers ...
    Pay attention to the trend. In every war, in every conflict, military vehicles participate. No matter who of the warring parties wins or loses, the machine wins every time, becoming from battle to battle, from battle to battle, more powerful, faster and finally smarter and ... WITHOUT inhuman.
    As soon as the level of its complexity reaches a certain level, self-reproduction of machines begins and she does not need a person.
    An aircraft carrier with a crew of 800 people is an aircraft carrier. And if there is no crew on it, will it be an aircraft carrier? And if the whole AUG will be without human crews ..? These are completely new phenomena.
    Without a paradigm shift, without a change in the mass consciousness forged by HUMAN ideology, the coming of a murderer from the century looms. Do we need it? I personally would have lived with great pleasure until the launch of the "Leader" with its brilliant naval crew and aircraft carrier, with its not very large, but human crew of Russian sailors!
    1. -1
      August 12 2016
      Quote: cedar
      It will be difficult for an aircraft carrier to find a proper place in the Russian defense strategy.

      That's it! Defensive doctrine and offensive weapons because of this, the Soviet admirals suffered and received incomprehensible hybrids. And since then, the goals have not changed, and the sailors are rushing to get hold of an expensive and unnecessary toy, haven’t they played enough in the sandboxes?
  20. 0
    August 12 2016
    Honestly, I don't even want to comment on the article - gibberish or pouring from empty to empty? Why print this vomit at all? Are there little kids sitting here, we have nothing more to read, or "will it do well"?
  21. 0
    August 12 2016
    According to our guarantor’s favorite hobby, in Russia we need a galley fleet and a sterlichonous cruiser (we don’t have aircraft carriers). And so on the whole, the perspective of Peter I is right for centuries.
  22. +2
    August 12 2016
    It is necessary to modernize the available ships as much as possible. I don’t know how survivability is on the new projects, but the good old missile cruisers are clearly preferable in terms of seaworthiness. On ships less than 10000 tons displacement, it is very difficult to perform unexpected introductory tasks, in adverse weather conditions (typhoon is not always possible to get around or the task area is located there) Modernization is clearly cheaper than building with nothing, there are many advantages in favor of deep modernization and extension of service of many units
    1. +1
      August 12 2016
      Quote: VEK2021
      It is necessary to modernize the available ships as much as possible.

      It is necessary ... of course it is necessary. But the shipyards are not rubber. Everything is loaded to the eyeballs and the fact that it is being modernized and what is being repaired and what is being built.
      We need more and preferably shipyards on which we could build not only MRCs, but also destroyers and cruisers.
      1. +3
        August 12 2016
        And workers are needed at these shipyards, desperately qualified with normal motivation (salary) in sufficient quantities.
    2. 0
      August 12 2016
      Quote: VEK2021
      good old missile cruisers.

      Eagles as a project you just need to rework, remove unnecessary - for example, the helicopter component, instead add long-range air defense. To remove the AK-630 who have died morally in the last century, to install a militirovka in the bow, if it is still needed? Although ship artillery seems to have outlived itself, as boarding sabers for the crew ..... at least in its current form. We must live in future wars, and not the old fashioned way. We need AFARs that will free up a lot of space, a modern BIUS, more robotics, modular technologies, an invisibility cloak by itself and load 100-200 missiles as offensive weapons ..... then it will be an attack ship.
  23. 0
    August 12 2016
    "and now (at least on 03.07.2015) - the head of the USC state defense order department, said "...

    Information is already a year ...
    Just the other day, there was an article on the development of the Russian Navy that was sober and reasonable ... The situation in military shipbuilding, to put it mildly, is not good ... And with the timing of the problem, and with the gas turbine, and with finances ... Yes, a lot with what ...
    So it’s very, very early to discuss about some carrier groups, as the author of the article tried.
    You just need to hope that in the near future everything will radically change for the better ...
  24. -1
    August 12 2016
    Quote: Novel 11
    Quote: VEK2021
    good old missile cruisers.

    Eagles as a project you just need to rework, remove unnecessary - for example, the helicopter component, instead add long-range air defense. To remove the AK-630 who have died morally in the last century, to install a militirovka in the bow, if it is still needed? Although ship artillery seems to have outlived itself, as boarding sabers for the crew ..... at least in its current form. We must live in future wars, and not the old fashioned way. We need AFARs that will free up a lot of space, a modern BIUS, more robotics, modular technologies, an invisibility cloak by itself and load 100-200 missiles as offensive weapons ..... then it will be an attack ship.

    AK 630 can be exchanged for DUETS everywhere, wasps for chestnuts, or C300 for C400, C500 and so on.
  25. 0
    August 12 2016
    And not all the same it does not bother me thinking that the construction of frigates is absolutely inadvisable, for what for they are not needed, like nuclear destroyers / cruisers. One multipurpose ship must be built for the near sea zone and one for the distant / ocean one.

    In this case, an example should be taken from the West, from the same States. Build a relatively large series of small and inexpensive gas turbine destroyers, distribute them across all fleets in the right proportions, and thereby ensure the presence of our ships (and well-armed ships) in all seas and oceans.

    From the very beginning, I did not like the idea of ​​building a dozen atomic giants ala-Kirov. Twice the number of gas-turbine destroyers, weighing 10-12 kilotons each, with the appropriate weapons, would be much more reasonable.
  26. -1
    August 12 2016
    Refresh weapons (insert another, places havit), new electronics with giblets and for a long time you can please the end of our presence wherever and whenever. Cheap not long and angry
  27. 0
    August 12 2016
    I think by 2035 these boats will no longer be relevant) there will already be some kind of universal means like a UFO))) under water and on water and in the air)
    1. +1
      August 13 2016
      These boats will still be very much in debt. This is primarily a platform for hosting all kinds of universal tools, which, if desired or necessary, can be sent to perform tasks. The mere presence of the fleet in the right place at the right time can dramatically cool the hot heads of the bad guys, I'm not talking about the application
  28. +3
    August 13 2016
    I’m just wondering if we will need aircraft carriers by the year 30 or whether they will go down in history as battleships. In 2017, the production of zircons begins, speed 5-6 max, range 400 km, according to some reports, and what range will be in 13 years. Russia has always relied on the strike fleet and I think there were not stupid people there. The Americans, as before, need a pirate fleet to rob the entire planet, maybe this is not our way. Although I agree that you need to have a couple of strike groups, possibly with aug participation, to protect our interests in third world countries and support allies
  29. 0
    August 13 2016
    All will be...
    I recall what was written here when the first Su-34 went into the series.
    Also, many cried for the fact that little and slowly.
    And now it’s almost the main plane,
    which is used in real combat operations.
    With ships the same situation. For starters, an almost complete replacement of the old fleets will go.
    Then the construction of ships for the AUG, and this is also its own specifics.
    Well, as the finale aircraft carrier.
  30. +2
    August 13 2016
    For the second time in a hundred years, the country begins a shipbuilding program from scratch. It's a shame ... This is how it was necessary to steal ....
  31. +1
    August 14 2016
    The aircraft carrier as drawn in the picture by that time will be obsolete, like dreadnoughts. Autonomous combat drones, that’s who should become the basis of the strike power of aviation. As for the Russian fleet, what for us an aircraft carrier? So that was? What are the goals and objectives to solve it in a continental country? It still cannot be compared with the United States, but for other purposes we will have enough missile ships.
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. 0
    August 14 2016
    Quote: Wiruz
    And not all the same it does not bother me thinking that the construction of frigates is absolutely inadvisable, for what for they are not needed, like nuclear destroyers / cruisers. One multipurpose ship must be built for the near sea zone and one for the distant / ocean one.

    In this case, an example should be taken from the West, from the same States. Build a relatively large series of small and inexpensive gas turbine destroyers, distribute them across all fleets in the right proportions, and thereby ensure the presence of our ships (and well-armed ships) in all seas and oceans.

    From the very beginning, I did not like the idea of ​​building a dozen atomic giants ala-Kirov. Twice the number of gas-turbine destroyers, weighing 10-12 kilotons each, with the appropriate weapons, would be much more reasonable.

    Where do you offer turbines from?
    1. 0
      August 15 2016
      Where do you offer turbines from?

      And what, the industry generally "stood up"? Let's learn, there would be a desire
  34. -1
    August 15 2016
    Twenty-five again ... they just want to drag the country, which is spiritually, physically and technically drowsy, into an intolerable race with the construction of aircraft carriers ... And many are doing this ... At least they learned to build a coastal fleet from pleasure boats first, but no pretend to be cool and build an aircraft carrier ... But why doesn’t anyone have such an aircraft carrier ... The country has no access to the sea, warm seas do not wash the coast of the country where the aircraft carriers will be based ... Krylovsky monkey and glasses ...

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