The control system of the complex "Nerekhta-2" will be part of the equipment soldier

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Robotic complex "Nerekhta-2" is supposed to make part of the equipment "soldier of the future", reports RIA News with reference to Deputy Director General of the Foundation for Advanced Studies (FPI) Igor Denisov.



“The invisible part of Nerekhta is also important - the control system. We consider it as an integral part of the “soldier of the future” combat gear. Infinitely increasing the possibility of a person is unrealistic - to chain him into armor, armor - so we will make a walking tank out of him. The fighter should have a personal assistant, a squire ”,
said Denisov.

In his opinion, “special forces soldiers should not carry a monitor on themselves to control robot”, for this purpose, “voice and gesture control of the robot is being worked out.” In addition, a system is being developed that “will allow you to translate the fire of a robot with one movement of a personal weapons».

“This complex can be considered as a fighter’s own“ dog ”, which will allow him to solve his tasks faster and more conveniently, transport him, weapons, provide communications, see further and in different ranges, hit targets. Man can not carry a gun, and the robot - please. Or not a gun, but a new ammunition, ”added Denisov.

The agency recalls that FPI was created in 2012 g to promote innovation in the military. Currently, Foundation employees are working on 50 projects.
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  1. +12
    August 4 2016
    Give everyone a mini bot!
    1. +19
      August 4 2016
      Servosila company launched the production of domestic miniature control boards for brushless electric motors designed for use in a variety of robotic systems. The servomechanisms of most modern mobile robots are based on brushless motors that provide durability, as well as minimal weight and dimensions for a given torque. The complexity of the use of brushless motors compared to collector motors is that for the use of a brushless motor it is necessary to develop a rather complex electronic control system, which is necessary for the correct switching of the motor windings.
      Servosila has developed a line of universal software-configurable electronic controllers (boards) that can be configured to work with any type of brushless motor. The controller software works on the basis of a vectorless control algorithm for brushless motors.
      Servo Force controllers provide the drives in the “shaft position”, “speed” and “torque” modes. Thus, these controllers can be used both in servomechanisms of arm-manipulators and in traction drives of the chassis of robots. The controllers receive commands and transmit telemetry via CAN or RS232 buses.
      The vector control algorithm for brushless motors, implemented in ServoSil's controllers, increases the drive efficiency due to intelligent control of the magnetic field inside the electric motor. Compared to traditional "trapezoidal" control, vector control significantly increases the actual moment of the electric drive. At the same time, the drive’s performance is improved almost “for free,” thanks to more intelligent software, it’s possible to “squeeze” maximum torque out of the same electric motor.
      An additional advantage of brushless motors is the low probability of sparking, which is especially important for mobile rescue robots designed to work in places of technological disasters.
      In combination with wave reducers of our own production, these miniature controllers of brushless electric motors provide the minimum dimensions and weight of the entire range of ServoSila products.
      Servosila uses these controllers both in its own products (servos and chassis of mobile robots), and supplies controllers to customers in the form of electronic boards with loaded software, ready to be integrated into a variety of robotic systems.
      1. +5
        August 4 2016
        I read the name of the device (Nerekhta-2) and thought that "in the field" they would be called easier - Slob ... Huh?
        1. +8
          August 4 2016
          Quote: gray smeet
          I read the name of the device (Nerekhta-2) and thought that "in the field" they would be called easier - Slob ... Huh?

          Useful things are usually given respectful or affectionate nicknames and names.
        2. +23
          August 4 2016
          Quote: gray smeet
          I read the name of the device (Nerekhta-2) and thought that "in the field" they would be called easier - Slob ... Huh?

          Nerekhta - the river Kovrovsky district of the Vladimir region, the right tributary of the Klyazma. Length - 49km. Given that the robotic complex was developed by the Kovrovites, and the Nerekhta flows in Kovrov, the name is understandable. Yes, and the river is pretty. smile
          1. +7
            August 4 2016
            Nerekhta - the river of the Kovrovsky district of the Vladimir region

            There is still a regional center in the Kostroma region. The reprimand there is interesting.
          2. 0
            August 4 2016
            beautiful river and the name of the robot to become. It will also bypass obstacles like a river.)))
          3. 0
            August 4 2016
            beautiful river and the name of the robot to become. It will also bypass obstacles like a river.)))
        3. +2
          August 4 2016
          Nerekhta - the name of the river near Kovrov, where we produce this miracle of technology. At the development stage I had a chance to participate a little 12 years ago.
          1. 0
            August 4 2016
            Quote: Terner38
            Nerekhta - the name of the river near Kovrov, where we produce this miracle of technology. At the development stage I had a chance to participate a little 12 years ago.

            generally "quiet", bug! Kus, bite, bite.
        4. +4
          August 4 2016
          Quote: gray smeet
          I read the name of the device (Nerekhta-2) and thought that "in the field" they would be called easier - Slob ... Huh?

          Russian people are by nature very resourceful and precise in their definitions. Given a certain tendency to contractions, by replacing even entire phrases with idioms in "non-literary Russian", in reality, a word with a consonant X can undergo a significant metamorphosis.
          A simple permutation of letters can lead to variants from -nekh-er-ta to Nakher-ta and these are relatively "censorship options". Operation in the troops and combat use will definitely give the NAME.
        5. 0
          August 5 2016
          Alternatively: "Nehren ta"
      2. +2
        August 4 2016
        Quote: st25310
        An additional advantage of brushless motors is the low probability of sparking,

        What is the low probability there? If it is brushless, then there’s nothing to spark! Unless the winding burnsrequest
      3. 0
        August 4 2016
        st25310

        Che didn’t understand anything. Some kind of far-fetched explanation.

        How long have servo drives not exist, such as, for example, for CNC machines? So what? Someone told these collector drives or is there another way of current conductors?

        Oh well...
        1. +1
          August 4 2016
          Quote: gladcu2
          Someone told these collector drives or is there another way of current conductors?

          Brushless DC motors are also called inductive motors, in the foreign literature BLDCM (BrushLes Direct Current Motor) or PMSM (Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor).
          Structurally, a brushless motor consists of a rotor with permanent magnets and a stator with windings. In a collector motor, on the contrary, the windings are on the rotor and voltage is supplied through the collector.
    2. +6
      August 4 2016
      This complex can be considered as the fighter's own "dog",

      Announcement: Selling Spaniel (Bitch). Urgently buy Nerekhta (gender is not important)! lol
    3. +8
      August 4 2016
      "... In this regard, the voice, gesture control of the robot is being worked out ..." - the main thing is to understand the matyugi correctly! We don't have voice control without them.
    4. +3
      August 4 2016
      Tracked squad for a commando?
      Can he ride silently?
      1. +1
        August 4 2016
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        Can he ride silently?

        Here is the video. You cannot call him silent, and he cannot be them on tracks.
        http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160803/1473473788.html
      2. 0
        August 4 2016
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        Tracked squad for a commando?

        And if this squire stupidly breaks somewhere in the mountains, what should the commandos do? Drag the hell knows how many miles, or throw expensive iron?
      3. +1
        August 4 2016
        Can he ride silently?


        There’s a video of a robot dog on YouTube. He even runs up the stairs.
        It remains only to get hold of the copy-paste like the Chinese.
      4. +3
        August 4 2016
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        Tracked squad for a commando?
        Can he ride silently?

        Why only for the special forces? In principle, the special forces performs different tasks, but in general, this device is closer to the infantry. Secrecy, even with low noise for such a size, is very relative - noiselessness is not the main indicator, although important. For a war without a solid front line, this is a very serious thing. The combat power is similar to that of the BMP 2, while the control is tied to fighters who feel the situation much better.
        The main thing in the material is that a fundamentally new control system for robotic equipment is being developed. The lack of a monitor, gestures and the combination of the aiming point with a personal weapon (even a finger) radically changes the tactics of use. There is no need to have an "operator's room" outside the enemy's kill zone, which has restrictions associated with receiving information through technical channels and subsequent transmission. The idea is cool, I hope that the information was injected due to the fact that the project has already been implemented and it remains only to put it into service.
    5. +1
      August 4 2016
      Quote: Andrea
      The complexity of the use of brushless motors compared to collector motors is that for the use of a brushless motor it is required to develop a rather complex electronic control system, which is necessary for the correct switching of the motor windings.

      Damn, only the Chinese do not say this please !! And then 0.12 billion will die right now.
      The Chinese regulator for a brushless motor, with phase detection, weighs about 12 bucks small and about 120 large
      The fact that they learned to launder is understandable, but it’s not worth keeping everyone for suckers, you must have your own production, but it isn’t there yet.
      As a memory, I remember only one manufacturer of regulators from Nizhny Novgorod, and even then things are not going like ice
      The controllers receive commands and transmit telemetry via CAN or RS232 buses.
      go nuts, but people don’t even know and continues to rivet their devices under junction, or under normal standards laughing
      I imagine a robot under pc432, like I went and it answered you "no connection with the port" .................... waiting laughing
      1. 0
        August 4 2016
        Quote: Locksmith
        Damn, only the Chinese do not say this please !! And then 0.12 billion will die right now.

        What should we start crying when in Russia they start releasing something new for our industry? What else do you want to compare in price with a Chinese manufacturer? And with the quality? The Chinese can not even copy without a significant failure in the characteristics. Again, make a copy of Panasonic 10-20 years ago and make your own technological chain, on its element base - two big differences.
    6. 0
      August 4 2016
      Well, comrade Sukhov, a machine gun can be installed on it! It’ll become much more convenient to shoot at the basmachi!) hi
      1. PKK
        +1
        August 4 2016
        I imagine how, by ticking a robot through ravines, they will determine the tactical retreat of a fighter in order to align the front line
    7. -2
      August 4 2016
      Quote: Andrea
      Give everyone a mini bot!

      Very vivid pictures arise when an offended "salaga" decides to take revenge on unreasonable "grandfathers". It turns out that the selection for the infantry should be at the same level as the pilots, because an armed "bird", getting out of the control of the "tower" through the fault of a psychologically derailed pilot, can do so many misfortunes that the Kremlin will not do well. A raging "infantryman" can also do a lot of troubles with the help of this "dog". Here you need to think hard about the use of this weapon, tk. the level of development of the Russian soldier, thanks to the likes of Putin, Medvedev and Livanov, is constantly falling.
  2. 0
    August 4 2016
    But this is a good idea! The main thing is that in reality it turns out no worse than on paper)
    1. 0
      August 4 2016
      I'm afraid it will be a little expensive.
  3. +17
    August 4 2016
    “This complex can be considered as a fighter’s own“ dog ”, which will allow him to solve his tasks faster and more conveniently, transport him, weapons, provide communications, see further and in different ranges, hit targets. Man can not carry a gun, and the robot - please. Or not a gun, but a new ammunition, ”added Denisov.

    It sounds beautiful and tempting, but somehow it seemed, and behind them a road train on tracks. smile
    1. 0
      August 4 2016
      Quote: Vladimirets
      It sounds beautiful and tempting, but somehow it seemed, and behind them a road train on tracks.

      http://itportal.ru/news/gadgets/proekt-big-dog-zakryli/
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww

      The "partners" have been puzzled by this problem for a long time.
      1. 0
        August 4 2016
        Quote: iConst
        //itportal.ru/news/gadgets/proekt-big-dog-zakryli/
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww

        And what to see on this link?
        1. +1
          August 4 2016
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Quote: iConst
          //itportal.ru/news/gadgets/proekt-big-dog-zakryli/
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww

          And what to see on this link?

          - These are two links - in the first http: did not copy. You can just itportal.ru/news/gadgets/proekt-big-dog-zakryli/.
          1. +1
            August 4 2016
            Quote: iConst
            You can just itportal.ru/news/gadgets/proekt-big-dog-zakryli/.

            Thanks, interesting.
            Quote: APASUS
            To perform tasks in such conditions, UAVs have their own robots and they can support them with fire, bring reconnaissance and ammunition, it’s up to the small thing - to develop a control system and adapt it to the “soldier of the future” equipment complex
            Can you imagine such a couple in the mountains

            I can’t imagine such a pair either. The article says:"Special Forces soldiers should not carry a monitor on themselves to control the robot". Performing tasks as a special forces soldier does not imply publicity. In most cases, secrecy, one of the components of success, barrage UAVs or traveling mini tractors clearly does not add it. By the way, a colleague brought an interesting link above, one of the reasons for curtailing the program for such robots in the USA was precisely the high visibility of such robots.
            1. +1
              August 4 2016
              Quote: Vladimirets
              I can’t imagine such a pair either. The article says: "Special Forces soldiers should not carry a monitor on them to control the robot." Performing tasks as a special forces soldier does not imply publicity. In most cases, secrecy, one of the components of success, barrage UAVs or traveling mini tractors clearly does not add it.

              Raise such a UAV by 3000 meters and without special equipment you would never see it, and each commando would be glad to glance at the 200 meters course, and even knowing that in a difficult situation the drone will be able to attack for example a car, machine gun crew or get lost, show the place where are the wounded
              1. +1
                August 4 2016
                Quote: APASUS
                Raise such a UAV by 3000 meters and without special equipment you would never see it, and each commando would be glad to glance at the 200 meters course, and even knowing that in a difficult situation the drone will be able to attack for example a car, machine gun crew or get lost, show the place where are the wounded

                What are the tasks of the army special forces? This is, mainly, reconnaissance and sabotage behind enemy lines. How long can this UAV hang over the group? And if the exit is many days? What do you call "special equipment"? Binoculars? Or are only the Papuans considered as the enemy?
                1. +1
                  August 4 2016
                  Quote: Vladimirets
                  . How much can this UAV hang over the group? And if the output is multi-day?

                  Such an UAV can hang in the air for up to a day, until we heard about our special forces in Australia, so it’s not far to fly
                  Quote: Vladimirets
                  What do you call "special equipment"? Binoculars?

                  Colander!
                  Actually, by special equipment I meant equipment capable of picking up radiation from a side-view locator.
                  And you’ve come up with binoculars, a down fighter in the place of a locator that stares at the sky with binoculars around the clock, I’ll go tell the guys,
        2. 0
          August 4 2016
          Quote: Vladimirets
          And what to see on this link?

          Mechanical mule
    2. 0
      August 4 2016
      Quote: Vladimirets
      It sounds beautiful and tempting, but somehow it seemed, and behind them a road train on tracks

      To perform tasks in such conditions, UAVs have their own robots and they can support them with fire, bring reconnaissance and ammunition, it’s up to the small thing - to develop a control system and adapt it to the “soldier of the future” equipment complex
      Can you imagine such a couple in the mountains
    3. +2
      August 4 2016


      Here is the dog.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. +16
    August 4 2016
    "Special Forces soldiers should not carry a monitor on them to control the robot,"


    A special forces soldier and a robot will not be dragged along. This machine is more likely for pehtura.
  6. 0
    August 4 2016
    Squire.
  7. -8
    August 4 2016
    As our liberal friends say, "Gas Station Country" has once again shown that it is not capable of anything laughing
  8. 0
    August 4 2016
    Addition to the experienced fighter is very worthy. hi
    1. +1
      August 4 2016
      Quote: Alexey-74
      Addition to the experienced fighter is very worthy. hi

      Yeah, what would the skin be removed from him for loss at the pass or crossing.
  9. 0
    August 4 2016
    valid such motorbike
  10. +3
    August 4 2016
    The theory is tempting, but practice inspires doubt, but noise? And the power reserve? What kind of fuel? Cost, is kamikaze in battle? But for some local injections and short raids, a small amount may be suitable, but if the quantity is small then the price is large. In general, nothing is clear with the scope.
    If it’s easier to carry the ATV, it’s cheaper and cheaper, if you attack it, how to deliver it quietly, patrolling unless it should be quiet. A picture so far for the average man no more
    1. -3
      August 4 2016
      Reasonable thoughts.
      I've been developing too analogue Nerekhty came to the only right decision: to divide the robotic ground-based drone into Tractor и Trailer.
      The trailer can be loaded with ammunition, installed Cornets or missile blocks (type C-8), transported the wounded from the battlefield, etc. The main thing is the ability to tow it any way, including and by hand!
      And the Tractor turned out to be a unified platform with a Trailer, only with an internal combustion engine generator and weapons in the form of a mortar under the grenade of an 40mm grenade launcher (including a cumulative version) or a machine gun (from its own UAV) under the 7,62 TT cartridge. And also - it can be towed with the engines turned off. any way!
      And for this Nerekhta, KAMAZ is still needed for transportation and a company of gypsies with bears ...
      In general, she only got a bunch of bucks at the training ground for the generals at post-shooting ranges ...
      1. +3
        August 4 2016
        Quote: Aviagr
        Reasonable thoughts.
        When developing an analogue of Nerekhta, I also came to the only right decision: to divide the robotic ground-based drone into Tractor and Trailer.
        The trailer can be loaded with ammunition, installed Cornets or missile blocks (type C-8), transported the wounded from the battlefield, etc. The main thing is the possibility of towing it in any way, including and by hand!
        And the Tractor turned out to be a unified platform with a Trailer, only with an internal combustion engine generator and weapons in the form of a mortar under the grenade of an 40mm grenade launcher (including a cumulative version) or a machine gun (from its own UAV) under the 7,62 TT cartridge. And also - it can be towed with the engines turned off in any way!
        And for this Nerekhta, KAMAZ is still needed for transportation and a company of gypsies with bears ...
        In general, she only got a bunch of bucks at the training ground for the generals at post-shooting ranges ...

        Aviagir - here it’s all for you — KAMAZ DOES NOT NEED, I REPEAT, IT PUTS INTO THE USUAL GAZELLE OF WHICH ON THE COUNTRY ROLLS AND A half MILLION, I WILL REPEAT ITS SAME LEAVE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY

        Quote Aviagr
        Nerekhta - a dead end

        In your opinion ...
        Quote: Aviagr

        To combat positions, it is better for a soldier (equipment) to drag him himself on a rope - so as not to waste battery energy.

        Nerekhta, with a mass of about a ton, is transported by an ordinary gazelle - of which one and a half million are running around the country.
        Quote: Aviagr
        It is important to make them light, all-pass (partially amphibious - with additionally attached floats),

        One question is how fast your robot can move on water and how it has directional stability and stability (will it not roll over from a wave, including that caused by an explosion ?, will not scour 180 degrees, again, perhaps because waves from enemy mines or just bad weather / strong currents? what current can be overcome by moving in a straight line?)
        Quote: Aviagr
        To combat positions, it is better for a soldier (equipment) to drag him himself on a rope - so as not to waste battery energy.

        But did the charter come to the front line like a dog?
        Quote: Aviagr
        Tug in the form of self-propelled 40-mm mortars for grenades from an under-barrel grenade launcher (including the cumulative version) - for self-defense and suppression of weakly strengthened FROM the enemy.

        How many grenades are there in a combat pack? Is charging automated?
        How is aiming carried out, including at night or in the conditions of electronic warfare? Sighting range on target "window" day / night? What is the probability of hitting a group of soldiers of one VOG-25?
        How is your robot booking?
        Quote: Aviagr
        The trailer is designed for towing ammunition, ATGMs, machine guns and other equipment, missile blocks,

        How much does it all weigh? What ATGMs (I first hear about ATGMs) are used?
        How is the launch? Where does your robot have a laser rangefinder and emitter (without them, ATGM operation is impossible).
        What is the radius of action of your robot (including when used by an enemy using electronic warfare)?
        Quote: Aviagr
        The battery (or miniDIC) is the main part in any robot, it must be protected. DARPovsky goat jumped on it and stopped short - 18 minutes of working capacity - NEVER ...

        The battery can be improved - Nerekhta is still a prototype, people are working, they are adjusting it, and what does Darp's "Kozlopryg" have to do with it? - as in everything new, one cannot do without problems, but her potential, Nerekhta, is huge.
        PS - again, just to cheat ...
  11. +1
    August 4 2016
    Of course ... Dog. Squire. And tell me what is the power reserve and maximum speed of this miracle? Payload? And how is the unit's mobility with him? Didn't fall, didn't? And the cost? And the fact that in our troops there are oh-oh-chen people who are technically "savvy" to whom you can only entrust this unit. I think so that you need to improve the individual equipment. For example exoskeletons.
  12. +1
    August 4 2016
    Quote: Kyrgyz
    . A picture so far for the average man no more

    Maybe for now yes, but even when Tsiolkovsky showed his drawings, many people twisted a finger at the temple, as they say, the trouble began.
  13. 0
    August 4 2016
    Quote: Andrea
    Give everyone a mini bot!

    Why, to the market or to the store, the very thing I want! wink
  14. +1
    August 4 2016
    And if it also has seats to fit so generally Laf! Not only do you not have to carry anything on yourself, but also do not beat your legs. If this tarantass can be filled with everything that burns, there will be no price for it. I arrived at the battlefield, dismounted, this crap in the bushes was waiting for when needed, whistled, she rushed over, brought a drink, cartridges, grenades, added a little light to the basurmans. Let them do it, maybe come in handy.
  15. 0
    August 4 2016
    I am confused by the weight of the headset.
    The splinter resistance of the V50% armored helmet is not less than 630 m / s, its weight is not more than 1,9 kg. ”

    Carry 2 kg on the head ... the neck will fall off in a couple of hours.
    Or am I misunderstanding something?
  16. 0
    August 4 2016
    The permeability of this tank bothers me. Four-legged robots are perhaps more promising ...
  17. +1
    August 4 2016
    Quote: roman72-452
    As our liberal friends say, "Gas Station Country" has once again shown that it is not capable of anything laughing

    Well you don’t understand jokes laughing
    1. 0
      August 4 2016
      "Jokes" - this is for "visa-free", there, liberal-joking friends, like a horse n.a.e.b? Sorry for the "poverty of speech" ..! Here the people are harsh, "they will devour", together with their relatives, they will find them and make them moan: "She's not dead yet" ... I would not stand that ...
  18. -2
    August 4 2016
    Quote: 11 black
    just to cheat

    No - the main thing for me: solve the problem by minimal means.
    Therefore, I repeat once again for the SOFA ANALITES: you don’t have to imagine the enemy as a humble rabbit, as in the 40, he won’t wait when you come and chop off his head!
    Syria really relaxed you all, although even there you have lost a lot of equipment and soldiers.
    So, no Gazelles, and even more so KAMAZ vehicles closer than 10 km to the front line WILL NOT FIT! Since the enemy has 10 times more UAVs, aircraft, reconnaissance assets and guided missiles, which will allow them to destroy all our trash IN ADVANCE! Once again I am sending you to "analyze" the Karabakh clash - the role of the UAV has grown many times over!
    You first decide: what tactics for using these robots can be implemented? we already found out on two sites: ambush (will be here cheaper and better stationary firing point based on memory-23) and offensive reconnaissance, and in both the probability of the robot capture by the enemy is 90-95%! This means that it should not have expensive devices and weapons! If you need a "mule dog" pulling ammunition-ammunition, then you generally need a cart with wheels. my Trailer! And it is much easier to drag it on a string than 60kg of cartridges with grenades on me - I carried boxes of cartridges to the SA, I know what I am saying.
    Above there is a photo with mountain paths, there are also swamps and other difficult-to-pass places where the DOG_MULA itself will need to be dragged - again you will call the Gazelle (by parachute ?!)! And NOBODY will come up with new batteries - there is such a concept: the physical limit, that's all, ales, before the development of gravity, the limit of perfection has been reached!
    According to the design features of my developments, I’ll talk HERE, maybe when you see them, don’t worry, everything is optimally matched.
    But Nerekhta is TACTICAL trash! She does not have any REAL ways to use the battlefield, and not an even clearing with mowed grass with peacefully connected gagged opponent ...
  19. 0
    August 4 2016
    Well, that’s it, the Guardian Angel 320 has appeared !!! (The book is called so).
  20. +1
    August 4 2016
    In Syria, primitive jihad mobiles equipped with a zombie drive quite successfully carry out their task, despite the overwhelming technological and material superiority of our "partners".
    We cannot afford a zombie drive, so the direction of "robotic complexes" is justified, the road will be mastered by the one walking.
    Statements like "This complex can be regarded as the fighter's own" dog "..." should be treated condescendingly - advertising, you cannot praise yourself ...)))
    Quote: Aviagr
    ... than 60kg of cartridges with grenades on myself - I dragged cartridges with cartridges in CA, I know what I'm saying.

    Zinc, Carl.
    "Zinc is a rolled-up tin box, about 35 cm long and about 15 cm wide, painted with protective paint. The dimensions of zinc for many cartridges are the same, only the number of cartridges in zinc changes. For example, 7,62-mm rifle-machine gun , 7,62 and 5,45 automatic, 5,45 PSM and 9 PM fit into "zinc" of the same size. But if 7,62 automatic there are 660 pieces, then 5,45 automatic - 1080 pieces, 2160 in a box. the actual wooden box 3 kg 7.62x39 automatic - in the box 2 zinc 660 each, total 1320, the weight of the box is about 25 kg Cartridge weight - 16,3 g; cartridge length - 56,0 mm; average bullet weight - 7,9 g ; average vespowder charge - 1,6 g or 1,56 g. 7,62x39 hunting - in zinc 440 pieces ..... "©
    I once happened to carry a 20kg box (380 x 260 x 230) through 4km I cursed everything.
    And here 60 kg - vague doubts torment me)))
    PS
    But at the expense of the rope I agree - if on the autobahn.
  21. -2
    August 5 2016
    Quote: Gunter
    Zinc, Carl.

    Box, Clara, all the more you point out about him yourself, yes, and in the box there are zinc ... Here you take TWO boxes, tie them with straps, dress them like a T-shirt - one in front, the other in the back - and flop. I still have a helmet, a machine gun, etc. with me - just 60 kg will be typed. 10-15 minutes - and you are a corpse (fathers-commanders so "tempered"). And on a trolley and for a rope on any terrain (not only on the Autobahn!), Even in ravines, you must be able to build trolleys! And shaitan-mobiles are already a dimension URANUSa, so do not compare fingers with what you put in your mouth every day * ...
    Nerekhta - tactical trash, and you can't argue with that, although you can "cut" wonderfully well.
    * - spoon :-)
  22. +1
    August 6 2016
    Quote: Aviagr
    ... you take TWO
    yashika ..

    This is 50kg., More about the remaining 10kg., I understand that I am dealing with an eyewitness)
    Quote: Aviagr
    ... so don’t compare your fingers with what you put in your mouth every day * ...

    I won’t even imagine what they shove in your mouth every day, I sympathize with your sad experience)))
  23. 0
    August 6 2016
    Just in case, Aviagr, I'm on the spoon too ;-)
  24. -1
    August 6 2016
    Quote: Gunter
    This is 50kg., More about the remaining 10kg., I understand that I am dealing with an eyewitness)

    Quote: Aviagr
    With a helmet, automatic, etc. - just 60kg will be typed.

    I did not get up on the scales, I can not vouch for the exact figure, but I still have a flask of water, boots withоtom (even squish), sapper shovel; Buttons are considered ?! And not an "eyewitness", but a bearer of all this.
    PS Sherlock Holmes never forgot how to play the violinbut watson is already without spoons could not live ...
  25. +1
    August 6 2016
    Quote: Aviagr
    ... boots with sweat (even squish), sapper shoulder; Buttons are considered ?!

    "You ues peeled off "©
    Quote: Aviagr
    10-15 minutes - and you are a corpse (fathers-commanders so "tempered").

    "Fathers-commanders", "tempered")))
    Well, not otherwise, a "real maroon beret" is remembered, and when you are reminiscing, the main thing is not to forget what you "remembered" on other resources.
    Nice to sing like a nightingale, well, or at worst a tit)
    Since I am familiar with your biography, further conversation does not make sense.
  26. -1
    August 7 2016
    Quote: Gunter
    I am familiar with your biography

    Do not forget to write in your memoirs how yapping menacingly on the elephant, he got scared and ran away. Yes, add - with your back crooked legs like this: pf-pf on the ground.
    Quote: Gunter
    further conversation makes no sense

    This was clear already three posts earlier.
    Adieu.
  27. 0
    August 8 2016
    Sancho Panso somehow does not pull ... Weapons and ammunition can be transported on any existing transport, as has been done since time immemorial. It just needs to be done in a timely and timely manner. Although, I agree, it’s better to sit in the trench and control the robot than to climb under the bullets yourself ... If we talk about conducting a modern offensive battle, then it is necessary to develop and develop operational electronic systems of interaction between the military branches. If the infantry, artillery, BTV, aviation and air defense worked in a single operational information space ...

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