Military Review

Ukrainian development of combat modules: do not worry

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We are asked specific questions about the equipment and weapons of the former friendly, and now aggressive neighbor. They are asked by people who, in principle, understand the essence of the question, but, how to say it correctly, they want to make sure once again that not everything is as smooth as ukroSMI writes about it.


And basically these questions come from our Ukrainian readers.

Ukrainian development of combat modules: do not worry


The point is that their media, with a consistency worthy of better use, report on the next advances in the defense industry. Ukrainians are informed about new helicopters, laid ships, the newest tanks and other achievements of democracy in the production of weapons and military equipment.

And this, if not frightening, then alarming. What if the fifth army of Europe really dares to return the Crimea and in general?

That is why today we will touch exactly the development and production of Ukrainian combat modules. What is needed today in any army. And what ukroSMI hollowed so that woodpeckers can take master classes from correspondents.

This need is due not only to the increased capabilities of the combat use of weapons and, therefore, the ability to effectively resist the enemy. Here purely economic reasons prevail. The fact is that the cost of modern ammunition is quite high. We emphasize the word “modern”; this no longer applies to AK-47 and PC cartridges. Although they also cost money.

New systems aiming and searching for targets in modern combat modules can save in some cases up to 70% ammunition.

In Ukraine, they understand this. Moreover, today it has become popular to invent combat modules "on the knee." Any student or "national inventor" for the minimum time gives the revolutionary development of such modules.

In the far incomplete list of such products as BAU-23х2, universal BM "Sturm", "Parus", "Desna", "Sarmat", "Doublet", "Viy" and others. The passion to create combat modules in the country is gaining momentum. The most interesting, as we believe, is still ahead.

Such an abundance of titles, alas, reflects only the literary abilities of the authors. No more. Ukrainian soldiers and officers have long known: the principle of Captain Vrungel ("As you call a boat, it will float like that") in a combat situation does not work. Of course, all these "horrors" can shoot. Even sometimes they can hit targets. But it too rarely happens that this "can get".

So can your Kalashnikov appear in Ukraine? Can a nugget really invent something grand and relevant to world standards?

Alas, but miracles do not happen as often as everyone would like. And geniuses will not be born annually. For the most part, modern weapons are a symbiosis of engineering, engineering, and industrial production capabilities. The revolutionary idea should be embodied in those materials that can withstand this "revolutionism."

Therefore, no matter how much one wants to see a genius, any weapon is the fruit of the labor of many people. Sometimes even completely uninitiated in the course of what they do.

What are the main ideas of today incorporated in the concept of production of combat modules?

First of all, the module should provide reliable guidance and tracking for the entire period of work. Only in this case, the operator has the ability to quickly respond to changes in the situation.

Guidance should be performed on the horizon and vertical in the same mode. It should not suffer the accuracy of aiming. Regardless of the skills of the shooter.

The shooting of the combat module should be carried out in any position of the vehicle, regardless of whether it is on a flat horizon or is in the tilt position. In this case, the design should provide for the accounting of all guidance data in the automatic mode.

For this, it is necessary to ensure the autonomy of the sights (optical and television) and the mechanism of the gun (machine gun). This will ensure proper guidance. weapons and the safety of the sight when conducting active combat.

In general, as you can see, the modern combat module is not just a weapon with a remote control. This is really an automated complex of firing, capable of making decisions independently (for example, changing the type of ammunition or shooting interference during irradiation with the same ATGW), set corrections for additional data (without engaging the operator), and automatically tracking the following goals. That is, to perform many functions, thereby freeing the operator from routine work.

Can Ukraine today create at least something similar to such a complex? No matter how insulting Ukrainians will be, no. Lost technology, lost professionals, destroyed production. The fact that today Ukrainians can still belong, unfortunately for them, to the past century. Starting from engines for sighting mechanisms and ending with software.

Ukraine today is trying to transfer the philosophical law of the transition of quantity to quality in military production. But philosophy and production are somewhat different spheres.

A large number of "new" old modules - only the appearance of strengthening the army. Moreover, it is a direct indicator of the degradation of the Ukrainian army. Turning it into a numerous, but not battle-worthy horde. And the revival of the former scientific and technical ideas in the coming decades is not expected. Potential is lost forever.

And, most negatively, the new "partners" will only contribute to further regression. Why, for example, invent a new "Bulat" or "Oplot", if there is a "Leopard"? Which will be available for almost nothing? The first generation, of course. And so in almost all that relates to military equipment. There would be money and desire, as they say.

But since there is no money in / in Ukraine, and there are problems above the roof, then the admission to NATO is postponed for the time being. So, the old equipment under the new names is the only thing that stands in the future.
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38 comments
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  1. Hunt
    Hunt 28 July 2016 07: 23
    +5
    As the saying goes, "the mountain ash will not have oranges"!
    1. One of you
      One of you 28 July 2016 11: 54
      +5
      "As the saying goes," the mountain ash will not give birth to oranges "!

      This is not the case at all, despite the fact that mountain ash is good in its own way and oranges are also not useful to everyone.
      Considering that in Ukraine, by the forces of the USSR, a fairly successful military-industrial complex was created, although not of a full cycle, it would (Ukraine) still be able to produce popular "products" on this topic.
      Russia, however, does not hide the fact that after 2014 it was forced to abandon the products of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex because of the refusal of cooperation in this area on the initiative of the Kiev junta. This means that Ukrainian enterprises still produced quality products until 2014, and Russia was interested in it.
      Another thing is that for 25 years the so-called. The Ukrainian military-industrial complex degraded every year because of the disregard for it on the part of the country's leaders, starting with Kravchuk. And now, with the arrival of overseas puppets, the remnants of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex are not needed at all, except for the junta itself and its hangers-on for squandering and appropriating state subsidies and subsidies.
      Moreover, the Ukrainian military-industrial complex is not interesting for Western arms companies to cooperate - they are only interested in documentation and brains on this topic, therefore, today the military-industrial complex of Ukraine does not have any positive prospects, which means there are no prospects for the development of modern weapons.
      1. Aqela
        Aqela 30 July 2016 10: 23
        0
        Duc, this is what the article says. It is interesting that you so passionately retold briefly the contents of the article under discussion ... But in fact, objections are what?
  2. inkass_98
    inkass_98 28 July 2016 07: 55
    +5
    Something about anything, to be honest.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 28 July 2016 18: 39
      0
      I agree a flock of some worthless. Deserves a minus
      1. Orionvit
        Orionvit 28 July 2016 22: 55
        0
        I agree a flock of some worthless. Deserves a minus
        Well, about the minus, you got excited, although the article is really about nothing. I remembered the old US movie The Jackal, with Bruce Willis. There is the same home "jack of all trades", created a remote combat module installed in the trunk of a van. Probably Ukrainian ideologues also draw their inspiration from Hollywood.
        1. Aqela
          Aqela 30 July 2016 10: 30
          0
          In the series "American Cannons" there is something like that, like, collected on the knee, too.
          The only nonsense is that serious equipment is used there, up to precision CNC machines, and there is a very good selection of high-quality (and, by the way, not very cheap) workpieces. Having such a mini-arms factory and ready-made high-quality barrels, coupled with blocks that allow you to assemble the same guidance mechanisms and aiming systems, the final product can not be attributed to scrub. The author of the article points precisely to the fact of the collapse of most of the production capacities and rolling down to scrub.
          Regarding Hollywood sources for inspiration - I agree.
  3. Gray 43
    Gray 43 28 July 2016 07: 56
    +2
    The author in vain underestimates the technique of the "aggressive neighbor" - against almost unarmed people, this weapon works, unfortunately, very effectively
    1. domokl
      domokl 28 July 2016 09: 08
      +1
      Don’t you make people laugh ... An army, if it is an army, is intended to be used against external enemies. And you are talking about punitive operation. She would be the same with stone axes as she is now
    2. dmi.pris
      dmi.pris 28 July 2016 15: 20
      +1
      I agree, it works and I don’t agree with the opinion of the author, there is someone to create and on what. Another thing is how high-quality and effective this weapon is, unfortunately, only war with us, and not with unarmed people, can show.
      Quote: Gray 43
      The author in vain underestimates the technique of the "aggressive neighbor" - against almost unarmed people, this weapon works, unfortunately, very effectively
      1. Lord blacwood
        Lord blacwood 28 July 2016 16: 00
        +2
        They can create it, but another thing to produce. In Ukraine, there is no modern equipment for the production of modern weapons. Yes, some plants will be able to produce combat modules, but according to the parameters of the 80s. And the latest weapons will not. And since the economic situation in Ukraine is deplorable, the necessary equipment is unlikely to appear.
    3. Aqela
      Aqela 30 July 2016 10: 34
      0
      In contrast to an unarmed and tied sheep, even a table knife is a radically lethal remedy. am This will confirm any shepherd cooking kebab with fresh meat.
      The conversation is specifically about the army systems, which, it seems, should be at war with organized armed formations ... So your remark is not devoid of justice, but it is not at all the topic. The article was not supposed to discuss war crimes "in the ATO zone." request
  4. Altona
    Altona 28 July 2016 08: 04
    +4
    There have been articles recently about these modules. The Ukrainian defense industry follows the path of using outdated and low-quality drives according to the classical scheme - motor + clutch + gear (minus the gyroscope) and all with backlashes and gaps, instead of using modern engines that accurately position weapons and do not have intermediate drive elements in the form of gears and couplings. Therefore, you can exercise for a long time. Let them practice.
    1. domokl
      domokl 28 July 2016 08: 28
      +3
      Quote: Altona
      . The Ukrainian defense industry follows the path of using outdated and low-quality drives according to the classical scheme - motor + clutch + gearbox

      One of the points sounds exactly that way ... Drive, plus poor-quality assembly = huge backlashes when hovering over a target.
      And what you write about has long been used in the Western and Russian blocs.
      1. JonnyT
        JonnyT 28 July 2016 10: 34
        +3
        add here the huge vibrations of the gun barrel when firing, the guide casing was welded on, but the barrel still "bends like a willow in the wind" ...... their materials science suffers.
    2. Mik13
      Mik13 28 July 2016 11: 12
      +5
      Quote: Altona
      There have been articles recently about these modules. The Ukrainian defense industry follows the path of using outdated and low-quality drives according to the classical scheme - motor + clutch + gear (minus the gyroscope) and all with backlashes and gaps, instead of using modern engines that accurately position weapons and do not have intermediate drive elements in the form of gears and couplings. Therefore, you can exercise for a long time. Let them practice.

      I read the article you are linking to. The part that claims the superiority of direct drive over the gearbox is nonsense.
      Firstly, I don’t know how it’s in the civilized world, but in Soviet technology (for example, BMP 1, 2 - what do I know) a gearbox is also a device that implements the possibility of manual guidance (that is, it is there that you can choose which "propulsion device" will be connected - electric motor or manual guidance mechanism).

      Further - about backlashes - long ago, reducers were created and even used, which provide a mechanism for compensating / eliminating backlash. Moreover, the backlash with a direct (gearless) drive can be even greater than in a gear drive with wear.

      Yes, and yet - in any case, the guidance of weapons (this happens automatically or in manual mode) is carried out according to the actual situation of the executive bodies. at the same time, the existing backlashes, again, simply do not matter.

      So the author of the article you are linking to had something quite different in mind. In fact, he wrote "give money for imported equipment, otherwise we will lose the war. And I will earn myself a little on kickbacks" bully
    3. Pavel Tsybai
      Pavel Tsybai 28 July 2016 13: 12
      0
      Yes, in 75 years they will become the best in mechanics - JOKE.
  5. Aleksander
    Aleksander 28 July 2016 08: 56
    +1
    Ukrainian development of combat modules: do not worry

    Well and good!
  6. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 28 July 2016 10: 30
    +6
    In the far from complete list of such products as BAU-23x2, universal BM "Storm", "Sail", "Desna", "Sarmat", "Duplet", "Wii" and others.

    Active module "Viy"? belay
    As I understand it, there is no sight and monitoring devices on this module ... smile
    1. Lanista
      Lanista 28 July 2016 11: 12
      +4
      Among other control commands there is a voice "Raise my eyelids!" - "Raise your eyelids!"
      1. Aqela
        Aqela 30 July 2016 10: 37
        0
        laughing and according to the results of lifting the eyelids with an external manual drive, it begins to intimidate to death! lol wassat
  7. itr
    itr 28 July 2016 11: 09
    0
    did not understand what the author wanted to say
  8. demiurg
    demiurg 28 July 2016 12: 56
    0
    But can proofs be that Ukrainian modules are so bad?
    With a TTX analysis, a description of the design, electronics, software, materials, weapons, ammunition used, it is desirable.
    Forgive me, of course, but without examples and confirmations, this is verbal diarrhea, or, to put it in a new way, a stream of consciousness.
    What creates a gloomy Ukrainian genius there, I do not know. But he did not learn anything new from the article.
    1. Alex_Tug
      Alex_Tug 28 July 2016 15: 37
      0
      But he did not learn anything new from the article.


      Read to the end? Amazing
    2. kotvov
      kotvov 28 July 2016 17: 50
      0
      . But I didn’t learn anything new from the article. ,,
      I think, you own the search, and YouTube doesn’t block us yet. Look and find, here is still not an encyclopedia.
    3. Monarchist
      Monarchist 28 July 2016 18: 49
      0
      The author of the adoption has no TTX and so forth and writes nothing
  9. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 28 July 2016 12: 56
    +1
    Potential lost forever.

    Potentially be lost forever - cannot. After all, it is worth remembering that a rather large part of Soviet industry was concentrated in Ukraine. From metallurgy to mechanical engineering.

    The fact that all this potential has already retired long ago or has moved to a different world, then yes, this fact has a place to be. And the fact that a large part of sensible engineers dispersed around the world - too.

    But in our country, the situation with engineering and highly qualified personnel in mechanical engineering is also not so hot. The results of the policy in which everything was to be put into place by the "invisible hand of the market" - also did their job.
    1. Lord blacwood
      Lord blacwood 28 July 2016 16: 07
      0
      After all, it is worth remembering that a rather large part of Soviet industry was concentrated in Ukraine. From metallurgy to mechanical engineering.

      Only from this, almost nothing was left.
    2. Aqela
      Aqela 30 July 2016 10: 42
      0
      I am inclined to disagree with you. The potential can be lost irrevocably, and history knows a lot of examples of this. For example, how many countries could have developed modern aircraft and tanks before, well, at least 50-70 years ago, and how many - now. I want to make a reservation right away that licensed production and "almost the same, but in our independent manner" (like the Altai tank) do not count.
  10. uskrabut
    uskrabut 28 July 2016 13: 21
    +4
    Even 15 years ago, and not everything went smoothly with the military-industrial complex and the army. Remember the times when Milevsky helicopters almost sunk into oblivion, this is just one example of many. It’s a shame to recall the army in general: Chechnya, Tajikistan - the military then knocked out the due payments through the courts. Glory to the Almighty, come to our senses in time! Very little remained to the point of no return. They remembered (or reminded us) who Russia is the main ally of. But there are still a lot of problems and the main one is the staff, for over 20 years many scoundrels have rushed upstairs, not to be imprisoned (watch TV all). But these drones do not just do anything, they discredit the country, plunder national wealth, corrupt the people, deprive them of a national idea and faith in the future. I don’t even know what is worse - external enemies or such internal ones. The Soviet Union collapsed from the inside.
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 28 July 2016 16: 01
      +2
      The Soviet Union was destroyed by internal enemies from the inside, but the source is still from external ones. It always has been.
    2. Lord blacwood
      Lord blacwood 28 July 2016 16: 10
      +3
      The most terrible are the internal enemies, as they are imperceptible, and they are all trusted. For example, corrupt officials who are more dangerous than any saboteur, as they slowly but surely destroy the state.
    3. Monarchist
      Monarchist 28 July 2016 18: 51
      +1
      Golden words!
  11. xomaNN
    xomaNN 28 July 2016 17: 50
    +5
    As an engineer with rich production experience in the military-industrial complex of the Union, it just makes me laugh when you read in the media that in a couple of months from "0" another "Ukrainian. Super-duper-guns" was created and went to the troops. bully
    Years of experience show that without a full cycle of testing and acceptance, all this bullshit is unhealthy and can only inspire scribblers far from military affairs soldier
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 28 July 2016 20: 12
      +4
      Quote: xomaNN
      As an engineer with rich production experience in the military-industrial complex of the Union, it just makes me laugh when you read in the media that in a couple of months from "0" another "Ukrainian. Super-duper-guns" was created and went to the troops. bully
      Years of experience show that without a full cycle of testing and acceptance, all this bullshit is unhealthy and can only inspire scribblers far from military affairs soldier

      You are wrong. Quite recently, the newest Ukrainian 120-mm mortar "Molot", which has no analogues, has inspired its own calculation during military trials. In such small stuffing inspired. So there are still prospects ...
      1. Aqela
        Aqela 30 July 2016 10: 44
        0
        Let's wish all the members of the National Battalions and other riffraffs such deep inspiration with the "acceptance of Islam"! fellow drinks good soldier
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 30 July 2016 21: 53
        0
        Calculation for the first time in my life threw brains in a radius of 15 m.
  12. Monarchist
    Monarchist 28 July 2016 19: 15
    -3
    The author is an ordinary balabol. Serious enterprises remained (remained?) In Ukraine: Kharkov "Paravozostroitelny" (what is it now?) Nikolaev shipyard, and "Leninskaya kuhnya" and opto-electrical enterprises. I’m already silent about “Motor-sich.” They did a good job of small arms “Fort.” Of course, this is all in deep ** tse, but some developments and personnel remained. and so on did not fall from the sky. I wanted to get information about their capabilities
    1. Aqela
      Aqela 30 July 2016 10: 50
      +2
      Yeah. Well yes. The same fi.gnya is now in many regions of Central Asia: after emigration from there all highly qualified specialists (of whom the majority were "Russian-speaking"), it turned out "suddenly" that there are factories, machine tools and production lines - too, but not all of this work no one. Setting up a production line and sweeping metal shavings requires different skill levels. Do you already think that all sorts of "rogueli", carefully raised in Western Ukraine on profits from smuggling, will effectively work in factories as a skilled worker? And that the so-called. "members of the Azov battalion" will go to study as engineers?
  13. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 30 July 2016 21: 50
    0
    Reasonable article. There is not enough analysis of the "merits" of a particular Ukrainian "combat module", it would be more convincing.
  14. Former battalion commander
    Former battalion commander 31 July 2016 22: 07
    0
    I do not agree with the author of the article in terms of design difficulties in creating combat modules. All problems listed by the author (reliable guidance and target tracking for the entire period of work, guidance should be carried out horizontally and vertically in the same mode, shooting of the combat module should be carried out at any position of the machine, etc.) - these are trifles that a third-year student is really handle them. But I agree in terms of PRODUCTION. To make a dozen other such modules is not a problem even for a bed factory. But here is the MASS issue of HUNDREDS AND THOUSAND is already really a problem. But to underestimate the danger of creating really cheap and quite effective weapons in Ukraine is the height of carelessness and even stupidity ...