Gap 120-mm mortar on exercises in the Nikolaev region

The reports of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine say that there was an abnormal situation at the “Wide Lan” training ground in the Nikolaev region. At the same time, a contingency is understood to mean the breaking of an 120-mm mortar that was used by the fighters of the Ukrainian army during the exercises. It is reported that the gap occurred around 11: 00 local time, with the result that one Ukrainian soldier was killed and at least eight people were injured.

The wounded are transported to the nearest hospital.

From the message of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine:

An operative group works at the site, an investigation is underway to determine the causes and circumstances of the incident.

The incident occurred during the ongoing joint exercises "Sea Breeze-2016." The exercises, in which representatives of the Ukrainian army as well as military personnel from other countries take part, are held at the testing grounds of the Nikolaev and Odessa regions from July 18. The teachings are divided into land and sea phases. The marine phase is held in the area of ​​Odessa.

Comments

[Lemon1972]

Che runaway or something beat, decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?

[Leviton]

Quote: Limon1972

Che runaway or something beat, decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?

I look at them and the enemy is not needed, they seem to have the gene code for self-liquidation of the country, the people ... It’s certainly an emergency situation ...

[atalef]

Quote: LevITon

I watch them and the enemy does not need

[Comrade Glebov]

Ha. Here, the Chinese mine is more likely to blame than the mortar. Although the situation does not change. If I were in such a situation, it would be as if I would run ahead of the rest)))

[Dinko]

Fears are in vain because the mine did not have time to stand on a combat platoon, apparently the Chinese did not realize what was happening. or just badly know the mat.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: Dinko

apparently the Chinese did not realize what was happening.

They probably weren’t in the know about the mortar, where they are, and where Latin America is.

[pvv113]

At such a moment, they don’t think about materiel

[torkov66]

Despite the fact that the mine came out of the trunk and plopped down, you still have confidence in its quality, will you figure it out, or is it not on a combat platoon?

[samoletil18]

and military personnel from other countries

These participants in the exercises would also

for self-destruction

little step to peace in the world

[Lord_Bran]

I’m reading a series about Richard Sharpe, and so the description of the Ukrainian army and the news from it, to the pain in the monitor, reminiscent of the description of the British army of 1805-1813. A mess, irresponsibility and impunity.

[snap]

Professionalism is doubtful, but, in any case, people are sorry no matter what views they hold.

[Lord of the Sith]

In the continuation of the APU attack in the Experienced area. I’ll repeat the summary.

Message from the militia with the call sign "Zodiac".

"From the direction of Avdiivka (eastern part), the Armed Forces of Ukraine are firing heavy artillery at the Yasinovatsky post, Mineralny-Yakovlevka, Vasilyevka. Aerial reconnaissance (UAV) is active. Airport-Opytnoe, Spartak, 71 km: short-term shooting + mortars. Gorlovka. Mayorsk-Zaytsevo : shooting combat (short-range machine guns, + SPG, AGS).
The Armed Forces of Ukraine became active again, apparently they were given the go-ahead for active actions, or vice versa, something was not given. In general, for the third day in a row, shelling intensified, attempts at penetration by assault groups behind our defense line. Yesterday, from the Opytnoye area, or rather just south of the village in a ravine, our reconnaissance detected the accumulation of manpower of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. We watched the mortar servants sweating and preparing for the shelling of the airport and Spartak. Now we were already waiting for signals from our leadership. But we were refused. The shelling began from the / to machine guns, then the AGS, the VOGs were also connected. For an hour, APU mortars were connected across the floor. Under the cover of a curtain of fire, an assault group of punishers advanced, 6-8 people, but then, as it turned out, there were more of them. Here we were given the go-ahead and we began to press down the APUshnikov with fire, and then cover them with mines. We covered the assault group and mortar batteries. We received the results only in the morning - 10 killed assault group punishers, two killed and 3 wounded mortar batteries. Approximately the same battle took place near Kominternovo, Maryinka, Avdeevskaya promka and Zaitsevo. There, too, they received their gifts, both the storming punishers and those that tried to cover them. This is not the first and I think not the last night of such battles ... "

But they began to spread the data of the dead soldiers of the APU.
Ukro-punisher from the gang "Kievan Rus" Sergei Shadskikh from Fastov (Kiev region) Liquidated 23.07.16/XNUMX/XNUMX

Ukro-punisher Anatoly Vasilik from the village of Vishnevka (Ivano-Frankivsk region). Eliminated on 23.07.16/XNUMX/XNUMX

Ukro-punisher Litvinov Victor from Satanov (Khmelnitsky region). Eliminated on 23.07.16.

Ukro-punisher Roman Omelchenko (93brg.) P. Peski (Poltava region). Eliminated (undermined with BMP) 23.07.16/XNUMX/XNUMX

[black]

"Kievan Rus"? Old acquaintances. Everything is itching.

[torp]

The old ones are no longer there! New sheep scored!

[figwam]

Quote: Limon1972

Che runaway or something beat, decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?

No, this is a sacrificial offering for re-indians.

[Yuri from Volgograd]

Quote: figvam

Quote: Limon1972

Che runaway or something beat, decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?

No, this is a sacrificial offering for re-indians.

Enough of yanking, let everyone be healthy.
Everyone has parents / children / relatives, not even Bandera.

[figwam]

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

Enough of yanking, let everyone be healthy.
Everyone has parents / children / relatives, not even Bandera.

And on these teachings, they work out how to kill you, wish them good luck.

[Yuri from Volgograd]

Quote: figvam

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

Enough of yanking, let everyone be healthy.
Everyone has parents / children / relatives, not even Bandera.

And on these teachings, they work out how to kill you, wish them good luck.

About "not all Bandera members" either missed, or got stuck in a hurray of patriotism.
Minus health, but I will not be happy for the death of someone. There could have been quite normal recruits related to Russia, to whom I have absolutely no anger.
Bandera even hite, even bite, and so you stupidly bloodthirsty urya patriots without convolutions.

[v02000]

And what anger you might have for them - they didn’t shoot at your cities and houses ...

[Shurik70]

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

Enough of yanking, let everyone be healthy.
not even Bandera.

Hmm. I want to gloat, but I can’t.
Killers, yes, there they are dear.
But there, apparently, there were simple conscripts.

[Dr. Stein]

Well, yes, "REDUCED" not a bit sorry, there would be more such cases and even in full view of the mattress mats.

[Homo]

Quote: Shurik70

But there, apparently, there were simple conscripts.

At 41 in the Wehrmacht, there were also conscripts.

[svp67]

Quote: Shurik70

But there, apparently, there were simple conscripts.

Well, it remains to add "onizhedeti" and in general you can let a tear go. And the fact that these "kids" in a week will go first to kill the residents of Donbass, and if ordered, they will go to Russia. Will you feel sorry for them then?

[Erg]

Quote: Shurik70

Hmm. I would like to gloat, but I can’t. The murderer is yes, they need a way there. But there, apparently, there were simple conscripts

Every death of a stink is a saved life of an innocent soul.

[Andrey K]

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

Enough of yanking, let everyone be healthy.
Everyone has parents / children / relatives, not even Bandera.

I agree, not all. Through one - those who were "forced". The rest, in case of capture, are either "scribes" or "cooks". And in Donbass, women with children "kill themselves" and "self-detonate" ...
I would have brought all these maydanuty, their parents and relatives, to the demarcation line in the Donbass. Trust me, 100%, the slaughter would end within one minute ...
In the meantime, these "non-Banderaites" have everything as expected - they eat vodka and kill other people's children and parents ...

[svp67]

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

Everyone has parents / children / relatives, not even Bandera.

Yes, not all, but those who now "nightmare" Donbass are not among them. These are just the most inveterate Banderites, since they consider their army to be the successor of the Banderites.

[Yuri from Volgograd]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

Everyone has parents / children / relatives, not even Bandera.

Yes, not all, but those who now "nightmare" Donbass are not among them. These are just the most inveterate Banderites, since they consider their army to be the successor of the Banderites.

Unfortunately, not the Aidarites had squandered fighters in the battalion, but in the regular army, and certainly not all woodpeckers were there, there were people too. There are all kinds of things.

[masterovoy]

And when they kill your family and friends and torture you, will you also regret it?

[Yuri from Volgograd]

Quote: masterovoy

And when they kill your family and friends and torture you, will you also regret it?

Are you sure that there are only rabid nationalists in the blood to the elbow?
At least figure out who is there, then write.
Minus do not be shy. I rejoice in the death of someone not accustomed.

[Erg]

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

Minus do not be shy. I rejoice in the death of someone not accustomed.

Have you ever tried to enjoy life "to accustom yourself"? .. The lives of children, mothers, men defending their home?

[wadim13]

The gloating is not a sign of a real man. One needs to rejoice at the corpse of an enemy killed by himself. For some reason, I doubt that if Dantes’s carriage would have been involved in an accident on the way to a duel, then Pushkin rushed to write joyful pamphlets on this subject.

[samoletil18]

Quote: figvam

it's sacrificial

How old are propellant charges? Over the years, they acquire blistering. Most likely, the Soviet ammunition did not want to participate in the Sea Breeze on a regular basis.

[figwam]

It may well be!

[WUA 518]

Quote: Limon1972

decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?

There, the fuse stands against double loading.

[figwam]

Quote: WUA 518

There, the fuse stands against double loading.

And not the fact that he was there.

[novobranets]

Quote: WUA 518

There, the fuse stands against double loading.

So there are other ways. For example. And it’s not necessary to put the second mine in the trunk, it is enough to block the path of the first.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: novobranets

it’s not necessary to put the second mine in the trunk, it is enough to block the path of the first.

What kind of "block", if he inserted a mine into the barrel upside down (tail up), and then also wound the safety device from above.

[Dr. Stein]

Yes, they forgot to grease the barrel with fat, sheer sloppiness.

[Homo]

Quote: WUA 518

There, the fuse stands against double loading.

It will be right - must stand!

[VP]

Quote: WUA 518

There, the fuse stands against double loading.

Most likely it was the Ukrovskaya tracing paper of the Soviet 120-mm mortar called "hammer".
The Ukrainians have already rolled out a lot of claims against this "hammer", including the mechanism of preventing double loading. You can search the net.
Extremely low-quality and unreliable thing turned out.

[Appraiser]

The reason may be the fuse of the GVZM itself is difficult now to establish a specific reason, only one version ....

[Andrey K]

Quote: Limon1972

Che runaway or something beat, decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?

It's much easier. This is the "new" 120mm. mortar М120-15 "Hammer"
Released on the "knee", in PJSC "Plant Mayak".
At the military reception, an explanatory note was born:

The document refers to the experience of operating a battery kit of six mortars, which on June 21, 2016 received a battery in the city of Orzhiv, Rivne region (apparently, from the first batch of M-120-15 mortars transferred to the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine in March). During the tactical and special exercises, first the two mortars and then all the others got stuck with the lifting mechanism.
It is noted that all the malfunctions were noticed during practical firing. Among other problems is the quality of the metal, which very quickly begins to rust and oxidize. In addition, paint on mortars “peels” under the influence of sunlight and quickly erases. There are also questions to the material of guidance mechanisms and the mechanism of double loading. But such a weapon is worth a lot, according to the invoice for receiving mortars M120-15 "Hammer" - 483512,40 hryvnias (more than a million rubles!) Per unit.

[Sid.74]

Apparently drunk, crazy hands and the degradation of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine are to blame.

Well, that's right ...

“They have a wedge lifting mechanism, the double-loading fuse is made of poor-quality metal that can explode when fired,” wrote blogger Andrei Zablotsky.

[blind]

this is an unsuccessful copy of the Soviet mortar which mortar battery officers have already been groaning about

[Black Colonel]

"And such a weapon costs a lot, according to the invoice for receiving mortars М120-15" Molot "- 483512,40 hryvnia (over a million rubles!) Per unit."
Hrenassé, are they from an alloy of gold and platinum?

[Fregate]

Quote: Black Colonel

"And such a weapon costs a lot, according to the invoice for receiving mortars М120-15" Molot "- 483512,40 hryvnia (over a million rubles!) Per unit."
Hrenassé, are they from an alloy of gold and platinum?

No. It just comes with 4 Roshen chocolate bars

[Procrust]

The article about Poroshenko and mortars: http://www.politforums.net/ukraine/1468820594.html
"Poroshenko handed over to the Armed Forces of Ukraine defective mortars at half a million apiece"
Perhaps these are the very mortars in the work ...

[Sharapov]

Quote: Limon1972

Che runaway or something beat, decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?

The reason is most likely different. Even if they wanted to, they would not be able to abandon the second - on all 120 mm mortars the fuses from double loading are standard. And yet - with a detonation of 2 x 120 mm min, the result for calculating the mortar would be different - 1 survivor, 8 - 200s.

Although, of course, their technique is now different - "the transition to the NATO standard" ....

[Simfy]

everything is easier rusvesna.su/news/1468796747

[Shadowcat]

This is if there was no double loading mechanism (I will assume that this is 2B11).
Still, do not forget that even a mortar has a shelf life, and even ammunition even more so. And storage is a separate conversation.

[russmensch]

For reference: 2B-11 "Cornflower" 82 mm caliber. And it is said about 120 mm.

[Shadowcat]

2B11 120-mm portable mortar
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/120-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BC%D1
%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82_2%D0%9111

2B9 "Cornflower" 82mm mortar
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%D0%919

[Bad_gr]

Quote: russmensch

For reference: 2B-11 "Cornflower" 82 mm caliber. And it is said about 120 mm.

The 2B9M mortar is called "Cornflower" and it is charged from the breech (cassette for 4 mines)

[Erg]

Quote: russmensch

russmensch


Today, 16: 41

↑ ↓


For reference: 2B-11 "Cornflower" 82 mm caliber. And it is said about 120 mm.

82-84 mortar battery. Cornflower 120 is a "samovar". Can't you get the hell out of the bagels? I do not know. You can expect everything from dill.

[KCA]

So it seems that even during the Great Patriotic War, did one of the famous designers make a fuse for mortars from secondary loading?

[Tilkus75]

Yes, my father was in school.

[svp67]

Quote: Limon1972

Che runaway or something beat, decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?

Or maybe the mine itself is substandard, how many years she lay in the warehouse?

as a result, one Ukrainian soldier was killed, at least eight people were injured.

We can say that it was easy to get off, usually with such an explosion of 120 mm mines, everyone should have died.

[torp]

Protein beat))

[73bor]

The mortar must have been put in without a safety device!

[Persistent]

Che runaway or something beat, decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?


There was a report of low-quality mortars delivered by the APU. Three months later, they began to rust, the paint peeled off, the guidance mechanisms were hardly rotated !!! ................

[meriem1]

on1972 ->

Quote: Lim on1972

Che runaway or something beat, decided to immediately throw the second into the trunk?

Interestingly, the founders of the exercises didn’t tear anything away by chance?

[RuslanNN]

Well, let them continue in the same vein. Our less work will be.

[Signore Tomato]

I feel sorry for people, but skaklov - no.

And, as always - This is Putin, personally, pouring sand into the barrel of the mortar!

[Grigorievich]

Is the barrel rusted?

[GSH-18]

Quote: Grigorievich

Is the barrel rusted?

Fat! Stole the fat !!!

[FIREMAN]

Probably as usual, the double-charge fuse was removed to increase the rate of fire. I know one such case, with similar consequences.

[engineer74]

This, incidentally, is not the mortars of independent production that Poroshenko, a couple of weeks ago, boasted of?

[FIREMAN]

By the way, in the pictures about these mortars, the fuses are on, but about the rust on the parts (news slipped through) - it is necessary to chrome, only this is an expensive pleasure - according to the principle "and so it will do."

[x.andvlad]

double-loading fuse removed to increase the rate of fire.
It seems that this is the case. But why do this is not clear. God of fools punishes.

[russmensch]

With the fuses removed, of course, it is easy to throw a second mine into the barrel. But they usually don't. But the "tongue" of the fuse, quite by accident, is easy to return to the original by pressing a finger. And load the second one. Unfortunately, I personally "passed" it. Thank God, then it cost ... the mortar did not stand on the sting and the second capsule did not work from hitting the first. And with a quick fire it may well be. You put the sting on a constant and mine swords in the barrel until you turn blue. I have fighters up to 9 minutes on the trajectory launched.

[atamankko]

Technique in the hands of the illiterate - a piece of iron.

[VNP1958PVN]

Well done mortar Che. More Soviet ... This is not the first case of revenge weapons to horses ...

[Alex_Tug]

There has already been a discussion of Ukrainian-made rusty mortars. Maybe the barrel is made of cast iron? Then it’s clear why it exploded.

[Black Colonel]

So, cast iron almost does not rust.

[Mountain shooter]

Weapons - it is. High-risk agent, even with normal storage periods.
Mines at dill with an out-of-date shelf life could also detonate a powder charge. And from him and mine.
Judging by the number of victims - the entire calculation - the mine detonated. The fuses are probably not fresh either

[semuel]

This is because before the shooting they forgot to shout "glory to Ukraine" and jump. There is a road for the fallen.

[evantropov]

Matches for children are not toys ...

[Arkan]

Ammunition requiring disposal cannot be used, but horses have no other. Let them train on wooden buckwheels.

[Altona]

Give the fool a glass member, and break it, and cut your hands. Nothing more to say.

[Banishing liberoids]

On ukroine all exercises should be called "zvizdets"! Then there will be no questions about mortality in the exercises.

[Marlen]

Matches for children, not a toy !!!

[Berkut24]

Upstairs, probably near the "Heavenly Hundred" in the garden for idiots, there is no longer enough seating.

[sgr291158]

They themselves will kill, and Jacob and NATO will be exiled.

[Viking]

More breaks, good and different.

[aszzz888]

At the same time, an emergency situation refers to a gap of a 120-mm mortar,

This is one of those mortars that Petska from Roshen solemnly handed over to its Bandera?

[Simfy]

everything is easier rusvesna.su/news/1468796747

[blind]

Recently there was a scandal at Kakel. it was said that all the mortars that the gunpowder solemnly handed to the gunners were defective. they were made at a local factory for one and a half million hryvnias apiece

[isker]

one svidomo died, two - to death, the remaining six, unfortunately, will survive ...

country of progressive lobotomy: more admirals than ships; procession - on buses ...

[Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich]

The materiel must be taught and the Operating Instructions too! We decided to show off in front of the foreigners, but the principle “it will do just fine” did not work. They wanted to get another batch of cookies, but they will receive a full dinner (though a memorial).

[Yugra]

Just a good summary from the front ...

[wow]

Little, very little !!!

[Altona]

Quote: yo-mine

Little, very little !!!

---------------------
The Msta-B howitzer was blown up by the APU and damaged three more guns, if that.
http://rusvesna.su/news/1469447500

[Ololo]

rightly so, rukozho drunk kakly)

[andrew-z]

It is very good that many here are happy about the deaths of Ukrainian troops. This, without a shadow of regret, makes it possible on Ukrainian sites to frantically rejoice over the deaths of the Russian military, which will somehow happen, because the army has always been fraught with risk. Such a job. Accidents, catastrophes, incidents, accidents to the end cannot be avoided.
So more pus, gentlemen! Today "they", tomorrow "you".
Threat. right now how to zaminusut ...

[Alex_Tug]

So more pus, gentlemen! Today "they", tomorrow "you".

The most necessary comment. (no emoticon shaking hands)

[code54]

To be honest! I read the headline by, it seemed in Novosibirsk. Sympathy and anger at possible sloppiness ... And after reading the article, the only thing ... and do not care, because you do not care! Only those who did not want to fight found ways to "get out" or escape, no difference. And do not say that stupid deceived recruits serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine!

[Normal ok]

Quote: andrew-z

It is very good that many here are happy about the deaths of Ukrainian troops. This, without a shadow of regret, makes it possible on Ukrainian sites to frantically rejoice over the deaths of the Russian military, which will somehow happen, because the army has always been fraught with risk. Such a job. Accidents, catastrophes, incidents, accidents to the end cannot be avoided.
So more pus, gentlemen! Today "they", tomorrow "you".
Threat. right now how to zaminusut ...

Recently I spoke with former colleagues. Adequate people. The majority hates the Maidan. Nobody wants to be volunteers. BUT, reading the Russian Internet (including VO), they begin to hate such commentators. Some said that "if the recruiting office pulls, they will not mow." And we were taught "military science - in a real way". So think about what you write.

[SklochPensioner]

Quote: Normal ok

reading the Russian Internet (including VO), they begin to hate such commentators. Some said that "if the recruiting office pulls, they will not mow." And we were taught "military science - in a real way". So think about what you write.

A simple reading of the Russian Internet will not make smart people out of your former colleagues, alas! If they believe that shooting at their own people is a "military matter", then they are HEROI "in a real way"!
Yes, only war crimes have no statute of limitations. So think what you write)
And you shouldn't be offended by the commentators (some). Apparently, the entire Ukrainian army got some of them pretty sick with their "exploits".

[Alex_Tug]

the Ukrainian army was pretty tired of its "exploits"

Better to write directly - crimes.

[Reptiloid]

I don’t remember if I was happy about their deaths when on the net, most likely not, rather laughed at the deceit of the bosses. But I saw the militias of the wounded who arrived for treatment, I heard stories of refugees from the city of Mariupol. In my heart I am glad of the death of each of those who want to destroy the Donbass.

[andrew-z]

SklochPensioner
You are wrong. A simple reading of the Russian Internet just opens many eyes to the essence of things, and the effectiveness of VO in "enlightenment" of Ukrainians (I emphasize, not all, but those who come here) is simply amazing. Have many "Banderites" been re-educated, instilled in love for Mother Russia? Zero. And how many were turned away? Very many. If you read all the comments since the "Russian spring", all the vile phrases, all the plans for the "partition of Ukraine" that were so savored here, then any normal person (many), even a Russian living in Ukraine, will automatically reach for the trunk.
By the way, for a long time they did not write here "Ukraine is no more" and did not "set" the dates for its disintegration. Is the appointment broken? It should be repaired.
You are missing one important, but clearly not essential for your perception of the world detail. The world does not revolve around you and it is not up to you to decide what is a war crime and what is not. As well as who committed it and against whom. You are not the beacon of truth and the criterion of truth. But you can write for the ten thousandth time about "shooting at your people" and for the next ten thousandth time you may be surprised that almost no one (except for Russophiles, of course) believes in it.
Threat. interesting, but a thousand minuses can be collected in the evening?

[Parsec]

Quote: andrew-z

The world does not revolve around you and decide what is a war crime and what is not - not for you. As well as the one who committed it and against whom.

The definition of the term war crime is given in part 2 of article 8 of the Rome Statute (Charter) of the International Criminal Court, according to which war crimes include:
a) serious violations of the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, namely any of the following acts against persons or property protected under the provisions of the relevant Geneva Convention:
1) intentional killing;
2) torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments;
3) intentional infliction of severe suffering or serious bodily harm or damage to health;
4) illegal, senseless and large-scale destruction and appropriation of property not caused by military necessity;
5) coercion of a prisoner of war or other protected person to serve in the armed forces of an enemy power;
6) the intentional deprivation of a prisoner of war or other protected person of the right to a fair and normal trial;
7) illegal deportation or transfer or illegal imprisonment;
8) hostage taking;
b) other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflicts within the established framework of international law, namely any of the following acts:
1) deliberate attacks on the civilian population as such or of individual civilians who are not directly involved in hostilities;
2) deliberate attacks on civilian objects, that is, objects that are not military objectives;
3) deliberate attack on personnel, objects, materials, units or vehicles involved in the provision of humanitarian assistance or in a peacekeeping mission in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, as long as they are entitled to the protection enjoyed by civilians or civilian objects under international law of armed conflict;
4) deliberate commission of an attack, when it is known that such an attack will cause the accidental death or injury of civilians or damage to civilian objects or extensive, long-term and serious damage to the environment, which will be clearly incommensurable with the concrete and directly expected general military superiority;
5) an attack on the unprotected and not being military targets of a city, village, dwelling or building, or their shelling using any means [2].
In addition, part 3 of the Geneva Convention provides that its effect extends to those conflicts that are not international in nature.

Quote: andrew-z

The world does not revolve around you and decide what is a war crime and what is not - not for you. As well as the one who committed it and against whom.

War crimes of a massive nature, with a large number of victims, are considered crimes against humanity, and are not subject to national military courts, but to international military tribunals.

According to these definitions, the Ukrainian Armed Forces commit war crimes fifty times a day.

Of course, you can bristle feathers, "it's not for you to judge," but even the blind OSCE saw a lot. Today it is like this, and tomorrow the regime will collapse, the top is to the hatynka in Canada, and the performers, in an illusory way, can drop in for life when they have to answer.

PS If your hands are drawn to the machine - do not force yourself, do not suppress natural movements. Forward to any draft board, or you can immediately go to the anti-terrorist operation zone and there, in fact, they will be accepted into the ranks.

[Retvizan]

the trouble is that these points do not contradict the Ukrainian version - and they can be presented to any side of this conflict (and to the north wind and the Russian military organization in general) - I would certainly prefer a long trial without shooting and let the two sides "shoot" verbally in court, not on the battlefield. But disagreement is critical ..
I will say this - no one takes the side of Ukraine does not want to think - but what was she to do? To agree? Nothing to do? Crimea then Donbass (I don’t mean Maidan near Ukraine, for the decisive force is just the Russian speakers from Mariupol and the Dnieper to Odessa and they didn’t Maidan .. but it’s they who are fighting!) They leave .. the threat of other areas - there is collapse and no the army does not have a strong central authority (thanks to the Maidan) there is no decisive police (thanks also) - the collapse of the state is evident! And at that moment, the body begins to resist ... and if it hadn’t started, then the khan would have come .. If it weren’t for the behavior of the Russian Federation and the comments on VO, many would not have lifted a finger to help Ukraine project ... But Crimea and Donbass provoked a reaction of resistance. And for me personally, the Russian government and VO comments have convinced that the Russians will not have to wait for good ... and the threat to my country will remain.
Ukraine resists as best it can. I personally could not have foreseen such a scenario (although the Russians have the biggest complaints about Ukrainians .. no country, even the Republic of Belarus, enjoys such success, "love and tenderness")
And if Ukraine had not resisted as best she could, it would not have been back in 2014 ...
I will not say that the methods are good (I’ll say straight away - War is the dirtiest and most heroic deed of man from time immemorial) but both sides lied to us all brazenly in the face ... that yours and ours ... the truth died right away ... and nobody can be trusted .. Both sides I would have "handed over to the court" But there is no forester. And the Russian Federation is not at all a forester ... but a capitalist - this fuel, and this voentorg ... and so on.

[Parsec]

Quote: Retvizan

If it weren’t for the behavior of the Russian Federation and the comments on the VO, many would not have lifted a finger to help the Ukraine project ... But Crimea and Donbass provoked a reaction of resistance.

Why aren't you in the ATO?

"There is no good to expect from the Russians." 115 billion dollars have been subsidies to Ukraine over the past fifteen years, "because the fraternal people", that was the behavior of the Russian Federation.

"With this fuel" - "oh, our sowing is failing", "oh, our harvest is under threat", "oh, don't allow a humanitarian catastrophe."
And DT is in the combine, in the BMP, where the recipients decide.

[Alex_Tug]

Parsec

Keep +30 in the ranking.

[Dyagilev]

You also need to clarify your truth. The smallest thing - if Crimea was "yours", could you swallow it together with Donbass in this situation? This is not Odessa, where 50 people were burned, people were intimidated and everyone dispersed. There would be another terrible massacre, and it is not known where Mariupol would be now and what would happen to Ukraine. Have you thought about it? Each receives according to his deeds. You should change your mind and accept everything as it is - this is the best benefit for you as well. What do you want from your war? There will be no victory. For every killer of yours, there are two in the world.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Retvizan

Crimea then Donbass (

You might think that Crimea was recaptured from Ukraine during prolonged bloody battles.
But to imagine that on this peninsula the people do not want to lose their native language, their history and live under the dictates of the Nazi junta, is not an option?

A weak search on the Internet for the story of how it all began in Eastern Ukraine?
When brigades traveled around the cities, historical monuments were blown up, shooting at people (most often, those with a camera in their hands).
As a result, they got a civil war.

It is very simple, for every militia who decided to defend their home, stick the nickname "Russian aggressor" and under this sauce to exterminate the local population of Donbass, but this will come back to haunt you with the complete collapse of Ukraine.

[andrew-z]

Parsec
Well - he qualified, he himself condemned, only the punishment has not yet been appointed.
Is there a decision of the International Court of Justice where the actions of Ukraine are defined as war crimes? If it doesn't make it difficult, give me a link, otherwise I may have missed it due to inattention and I don't know that I've been living in a "criminal" country for two years. Links to the opinion of Topvar's readers, your personal or Lavrov-Peskov-Putin and others are not necessary.
The blind OSCE was nicknamed by the militias because they "did not want" voluntarily and in an amicable way to "see" the non-existent atrocities of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. They were told, they were persuaded, they painted in the air terrible pictures of the brutal actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And they are not in any. Well, what they "saw a lot" (c), they saw from both sides, which is written in the reports. Well, what do you want from these infantile Europeans, give them evidence, facts. Unhappy people ... It is enough for a Russian person to say the magic words through the media - "Bandera's people want to destroy Russia" - and that's it, no evidence is needed anymore. To paraphrase the famous saying - "Do you see the crucified boy? No. And I do not. And he is."

[Alex_Tug]

andrew-z
And there is a decision of the International Court of Justice where the actions of Ukraine are defined as war crimes?

Do not boil much. There are cases opened by TFR. Maybe they will lie after completion on the table of the International Court of Justice.
While everyone here is busy with demagogy.
The words of politicians are not material for the court.
And you and I do not know the inner kitchen. Sometimes say the right words, sometimes you get drunk. It is clear, of course, so much mud was poured on you today. If you start to get nervous, cool the ardor, drink tea. There is no truth on the nerves. Realizing the truth needs a cold head.

[andrew-z]

Quote: Alex_Tug

There are cases opened by TFR. Maybe they will lie after completion on the table of the International Court of Justice.

TFR is not a decree to anyone. This is equivalent to the fact that we have things open to the GPU ... The value is exactly the same.
Thank you for taking care of my health, but this is unnecessary. You can't throw slops on me. Immunity. The words of others become "slop" only if you yourself attach some meaning to them, let them hurt you. How can I hurt the words of a person who is in a different "frame of reference"?

[Alex_Tug]

How can I hurt the words of a person who is in a different "frame of reference"?

Todd oh, it just seemed to me that the comments already went to emotions.

[Gabor]

Quote: Alex_Tug

There are cases opened by TFR. Maybe they will lie after completion on the table of the International Court of Justice

[Parsec]

Quote: andrew-z

Well - he qualified, he himself condemned, only the punishment has not yet been appointed.

I AM?! Condemned?
Was there a court?
There are no criminal countries, so your legal consciousness is so miserable.

Quote: andrew-z

It is enough for a Russian person to say the magic words through the media - "Bandera's people want to destroy Russia" - and that's it, no evidence is needed anymore.

No, not needed. Bandera’s people, in quotation marks or without quotation marks, need three more Ukraine to pose a threat to Russia. If necessary, the Armed Forces of Ukraine can be destroyed in one three to four day operations without the use of weapons of mass destruction, what are you, what a threat.

The words "Bandera want to destroy Russia" evoke slight sympathy for the speaker, and if they repeat it, they sigh - well, what to talk about with the poor.

[andrew-z]

Quote: Parsec

I AM?! Condemned?

But what about the 50 APU war crimes you calculated per day? Summing up an article is the court.
If Bandera is not a threat, why are you paying so much attention to them? According to the content analysis of VO texts (mentioning the key words "junta", "Nazis", "Bandera", "punishers" and their derivatives - this topic is in your first - second place, as if in Russia ALL problems have already been solved and this the last problem ...
And thank you for "allotting" 3-4 days to Ukraine, not 2 hours and one parachute regiment as in the "good old days." Nicely.

[Retvizan]

Yes, all the news about Ukraine turned into a rossensornet .. and they also say that it’s not fraternal peoples .. the behavior is absolutely the same, that there is something here, try to say something against it. Allowed to call only one way and call all the punishment of heaven. In general, there is one people ... only on two sides of the barricades.
About the relationship. A lot of people don't watch TV (Ukrainian, Russian), and they don't really believe in the internet. But reading Russian comments on VO about Ukraine - so much as they do not force anyone to hate "the other side" and feel like a Ukrainian ... As usual, it is not censors and agitators who force to hate the Russian Federation and its supporters, but the most ordinary Russians with their comments - To divide Ukraine - to kill everyone, "all the bad" "but ours will be greeted with flowers" .. and "our good" .. But if you read this - every Russian should be killed in Ukraine .. but no .. I see so many of them running around and sitting in the consulate on business ... they even lose their passports when moving .. The people are not so stupid and do not perceive all these "Internet threats"
As soon as these emotions subside at imprinting, you begin to realize that both sides are deceived and this is all a trivial informational war ... where both sides lost a long time ago ... And each article is a memorial to the defeat of the Slavic world ... and swirling crows ...

[Alex_Tug]

swirling crows

Shche not this merla - zrada, and vile ...

The melody "Anthem of Nepokora" * completely coincided with the music of the Anthem of Ukraine and its legal successor - the Central Ukrainian Republic, but there were countless variants of the mocking paraphrase. The one that sounded now, for example, was openly replete with obscenities.
-------------------------------------------------- -
* "Anthem of Disobedience" (Ukrainian.) - Anthem of Disobedience. It appeared soon after the beginning of the armed confrontation between the Eastern Confederation and the Central Ukrainian Republic. It was first published anonymously on the Internet. The authorship is unknown.
-------------------------------------------------- ----
Gleb Bobrov
The Age of the Unborn
novel

I didn’t read it, so no comment.

[VP]

Quote: Normal ok

Some said that "if the recruiting office pulls, they will not mow."

And with whom were these real military men offended to fight?
Throw a dozen mines in Donetsk in revenge for minus the comment?

[akm8226]

Military personnel are those who sacrifice their lives for their country, while your dill can only be called murderers who kill children and women.
Therefore, I will rejoice at your every corpse. For his death means that he will never kill a single child again.

[Algetxnumx]

Quote: Sharapov

And yet - with a detonation of 2 x 120 mm min, the result for calculating the mortar would be different - 1 survivor, 8 - 200s.

This may be so, but according to the usual practice for ukrovoinov, either "no losses" or indicate the minimum.

[Baron Wrangell]

I’ll say like a mortar
1 reason double loading, flag safety, perhaps the slovenliness of the soldiers, with a long standing mortar with a mine in the barrel, perhaps out of boredom and forgetfulness, they threw the flag into an idle state. In 1980, three soldiers were killed in the division from such sloppiness. The barrel was in a "lily".
2 the gap was from the state of the ammunition, the mine flicked when firing, but the additional powder charge did not work qualitatively, and the fuse had already blown up, when discharging self-blowing.

[Algetxnumx]

Quote: andrew-z

So more pus, gentlemen! Today "they", tomorrow "you".
Threat. right now how to zaminusut ...

And they’ll do it right, one minus mine, because we don’t have to carry crap, we don’t fire at peaceful cities, we don’t consider our fellow citizens to be enemies and terrorists, we don’t greet the accomplices of fascists, murderers and rapists, we don’t consider the neighboring country an aggressor, continue to list, although do you lie, because the pus about which you are talking here is in your head.

[Alex_Tug]

we do not fire at peaceful cities; we do not consider our fellow citizens to be enemies and terrorists

Actually, the article is not about the front. And about the accident in the exercises (not combat losses).

[-Zloy-1]

And what are you doing in the Donbass, building houses with howitzers and tanks rolling asphalt on the roads?
You are the real fascists, because meanly on a rat purely in Russian attacked a neighboring state.
Everywhere the hoof of the Russian occupier sets foot, BLOOD, DEVELOPMENT and DEATH !!!
I could still tell you a lot of things ****, but you can't do without a mat.

[Simfy]

http://rusvesna.su/news/1469447500 это жесть

[Vladimir]

Quote: Baron Wrangel

I’ll say like a mortar

Thank you, at least one comment is sensible and understandable.

[afrikanez]

For Ukrainians, even mortars refuse to participate in military exercises. It's time to think about this Khokhlov and seriously think.

[Ololo]

Quote: andrew-z

It is very good that many here are happy about the deaths of Ukrainian troops. This, without a shadow of regret, makes it possible on Ukrainian sites to frantically rejoice over the deaths of the Russian military, which will somehow happen, because the army has always been fraught with risk. Such a job. Accidents, catastrophes, incidents, accidents to the end cannot be avoided.
So more pus, gentlemen! Today "they", tomorrow "you".
Threat. right now how to zaminusut ...

Oh, what a misfortune)) Ukrainians don't like me)) you might think that before this commentary they were just burning out of love for the Russians) to me on your attitude - we are too early! kiss obama on the legs, "non-workers"! and you are not brothers to us, as some here believe - forgive me here, that says it all.

[masiya]

That’s the developer himself and said that they used exclusively Ukrainian developments and materials, that’s all - a complete kapets ... that they developed flawed there, and what unique materials they used there, it’s apparently complete darkness. So South-East can still be advanced Wunderwaffe from local manufacturers do not wait, this certainly will not happen. !!!

[ya.sjawa]

Why gloating then gentlemen? There is a regular military training. You probably think that this does not happen in our army? In the early 2000s, in Gusinoozersk, at the field exit of artillery, a graduate of the Yekaterinburg Artillery Institute, lieutenant, personnel artilleryman !!! nothing cleverer came up with how to burn the gunpowder left after firing in the breech of the M-30 howitzer. Only apparently they were not taught there at institutes, which, with an increase in the loading density, the burning rate of gunpowder increases sharply and reaches explosive speeds. In short, the full breech of gunpowder was thrown, set fire to, but failed to (even strangely) close it. As a result of the explosion, his head was torn off by the breech, another 3 or 4 (now I do not remember exactly) crippled soldiers of the conscripts crippled. So, something like this.

[esaul1950]

The more of this kind in these "armed forces", the less women, children and old people who died in Donbass.

[dvg1959]

Human sacrifices do not please anyone.
Weapons should be handled by military specialists and not by any means, all the more so with aggressive intentions.

[Machete]

What kind of NATO teachings without sacrificial blood?

[Navigator Basov]

The more military personnel of the Armed Forces, the less military personnel of the Armed Forces.

[Retvizan]

they’ll call so much new ... The population of the southeast (which you sometimes care about so much) from Mariupol to Odessa is still many millions. And there’s nothing that they are all Russian-speaking (or maybe relatives of many Russians in general) nothing .. nothing is better to burn in the furnace of geopolitical KhPP and Slavic chess.
And you would enjoy the non-combat losses (and this is at the training ground and the guys would not have gone to the anti-terrorist operation zone there only 70 thousand out of 200 serve ...)
And then they write that on the censor they say they rejoice at the losses in Syria .. yes, and other non-punishment .. And who is better? You? I don’t think so. All the same ... "one people" even thoughts "about the neighbor's cow" are the same ...

[Navigator Basov]

To be honest, YaNNP except the last paragraph.

[Navigator Basov]

Quote: dvg1959

Military specialists should handle weapons, not just anyone

Yes, it was necessary to hand this mortar to NATO military experts. If you correctly understand the term military specialist, as a serviceman of the armed forces of one state, aimed at assisting in the development, maintenance and operation of equipment and weapons in the armed forces of another state.
But seriously, then any military personnel (soldiers) should handle weapons, for this they undergo training.

[SHOCK.]

Obviously the hand of Moscow, and if more specifically, Putin !!!

[Seraphimamur]

I think normal people (conscientious: not executioners and not fascists) do not serve in the Armed Forces. Therefore, I wish the servicemen of Ukraine more such results in the shooting. They themselves will die and torture others, they will not kill. Read the latest reports from the Donbass.

[-Zloy-1]

And I think that normal Russians will not go to a foreign country to a foreign land to kill people !!!
Therefore, I also wish as many dead Russians as possible in Ukraine and Syria, and as many fresh graves as possible throughout the "immense" territory.

[Parsec]

You are not zloy, you are glupyi.

[-Zloy-1]

I want this video to also collect a bunch of likes like the dead Ukrainian soldiers on their own land.
Let the Russians do not skimp ...

[akm8226]

Each death of dill means sho he will never kill anyone again. Neither a woman, nor an old man nor a child. The more dill dies, the more children and women will live!
Therefore, snot here is inappropriate - die all ukrofashisty - here's my answer to you.

[andrew-z]

Quote: akm8226

die all ukrofashisty

Your desire is impossible. Compensate with haloperidol.

[akm8226]

Take your time in front of the Old Man in hell.
Not yet evening.

[Mista_dj]

Monkeys with a grenade ...

[iliya87]

Land him rest in peace. The guys are objective and we have cases like this in exercises of this kind, it’s just that not all incidents even get into the local media, not to mention the central channels. But as they say in the army, exercises are preparing the army for military action, and this, in turn, is small but a war, and war can not do without casualties.