Military Review

The myth of the "noble" Decembrists and "tyrant" Nicholas I

214
The myth of the "noble" Decembrists and "tyrant" Nicholas I

190 years ago, 25 July 1826, the execution of five leaders of the Decembrist uprising took place. In total, about 600 people were involved in the case of the Decembrists. The investigation was carried out with the direct and direct participation of Nicholas I. The result of the work of the court was a list of 121 "state criminal", divided into 11 categories, according to the degree of offense. Outside the ranks were set P. I. Pestel, K. F. Ryleev, S. I. Muravyov-Apostol, M. P. Bestuzhev-Ryumin, and P. G. Kakhovsky, sentenced to death by quartering.


The number of thirty-one state criminal of the first category, sentenced to death by cutting off the head, included members of secret societies who gave personal consent to the regicide. The rest were sentenced to various terms of hard labor. Later, the "first rank" death penalty was replaced by eternal penal servitude, and quartering was replaced by the death penalty for five leaders of the uprising. The execution of five Decembrists - Pestel, Ryleev, Muravyev-Apostol, Bestuzhev-Ryumin and Kakhovsky - took place on the night of 13 (25) of July 1826. The police master read the maxim of the Supreme Court, which ended with the words: "... for such atrocities hang!"

Based on the uprising of the so-called. "Decembrists" was created the myth of the "noble knights", "the best people of Russia" who wanted to save their homeland from the "tyrant and despot" Nicholas and bring "freedom" to the serfs. Nicholas I himself, along with his father, Emperor Paul I, became one of the most maligned Russian tsars (“Black Myths” about the Russian Emperor Nicholas IThe myth of the "backward Russia" of Nicholas I). The basis of this myth was also created by Russophobe A. Herzen, who poured Russia and Nikolai from abroad with mud: “Of course, when leaving the steamer, the Life Guard, silent bureaucracy, rushing couriers, stationary sentries, Cossacks with puffs, police with with fists, half the city in uniforms, half the city making a fruitful and the whole city hastily taking off his hat, and thinking that all this is devoid of any originality and serves as the fingers, tails, nails and claws of one person who combines all kinds of power in himself: the landowner, the father, executioner, mother and sergeant, - can spin in my head, become scary, may come the desire to take off his hat and bow while the head is intact, and twice that, you may want to sit back on the ship and sail somewhere. ”

But the truth is that Nikolai Pavlovich at the beginning of his reign was able to suppress the hearth of unrest, which could embrace the entire Russian civilization and cause civil war and the disintegration of the Russian empire. After all, the "Decembrists", hiding behind the slogans that were completely humane and understandable to the majority (like most revolutionaries, democrats and perestroika), objectively worked for the West. In fact, they were the forerunners of the Februarylists of the 1917 model, who destroyed the autocracy and the Russian empire. They planned the complete physical destruction of the Romanov dynasty, their family members, and even distant relatives. And their plans in the field of state, national and economic construction are guaranteed to lead to a great confusion and the collapse of the Russian state.

It is clear that part of the noble youth simply did not know what they were doing. Young people dreamed of destroying “injustice and oppression”, destroying many class boundaries, so that Russia would flourish. Alexander Russia gave many examples of injustice: the dominance of foreigners in the highest echelon of empire management; extras; examples of inhumane treatment of soldiers and sailors in the army and on navy; the vileness of serfdom, etc. The problem was that the nobles who opposed the "regime" took the "great truths" of freedom, equality and fraternity as models. That is, the measures supposedly necessary for the good of Russia were only associated in their minds with European republican institutions and social forms, which in theory they mechanically transferred to Russian soil.

This process is similar to modern “color revolutions” or the “Arab spring” when the West, the USA, NATO and the European Union are trying to establish “democracy” (using various methods - from media propaganda and political and diplomatic pressure to direct organization of revolutionary movements and military attack) in different countries of the former USSR or in the Middle East. And “democracy”, for example, in the countries of the East, such as Iraq, Libya and Syria, led to a fierce civil war, a complete split of society according to religious, national, tribal, etc. signs, wild slaughter and genocide. Western institutions and social forms cannot simply be copied and transferred to the territory of other civilizations and cultures that are fundamentally different from the West. The “virus” of westernization ultimately leads to destruction. Which is beneficial to the owners of the West: the destroyed states, cultures and nations are easier to “digest” and become part of the global “New Babylon”.

Thus, the "Decembrists" sought to "transplant France to Russia." As later, Russian Westerners of the beginning of the 1917th century will dream of remaking Russia into republican France or the constitutional English monarchy, which will lead to a geopolitical catastrophe of XNUMX. The abstractness and frivolity of such a transfer lies in the fact that it is carried out without understanding the historical past and national traditions, the centuries-old spiritual values, psychological and everyday life of Russian civilization. The noble youth of Russia, brought up on the ideals of Western culture, was infinitely far from the people. As shows historical experience - in the Russian Empire, Soviet Russia and the Russian Federation, all such borrowings from the West in the field of socio-political structure, spiritual and intellectual sphere, even the most useful ones, as a result are distorted on Russian soil, leading to degradation and destruction.

The Decembrists, like the later Russian Westernizers, did not understand this. They thought that if the advanced experience of the Western powers in Russia was transplanted, the people were given “freedom”, then the country would take off and prosper. As a result, the Decembrists' sincere hopes of a forced change in the existing system, of the legal order, as a panacea for all ills, led to the turmoil and destruction of the Russian Empire. It turned out that the “Decembrists” objectively, by default, worked in the interests of the masters of the West. In addition, some of them were Masons, that is, the hierarchy was subordinate to the "elder brothers" from the West. And Freemasonry is one of the tools of the Western masters to build the New World Order, the global slave-owning, caste civilization (“New Babylon”). As a result, the "Decembrists" objectively became traitors to the Russian civilization and Russian statehood, realizing the plans of the West for the destruction of the Russian superethnos and civilization. Like the later "Februaryists" of the 1917 model, who explicitly or by default implemented the plan of the owners of Great Britain, France and the United States to eliminate the main competitor on the planet - the Russian Empire.

In the program documents of the Decembrists you can find a variety of settings and wishes. There was no unity in their ranks; their secret societies were more like the discussion clubs of sophisticated intellectuals, who vigorously discussed pressing political issues. In this regard, they are also similar to the Westernizers-liberals of the sample of the late XIX - early XX centuries. and the Februarynists of 1917, as well as the modern Russian liberals, who cannot find a common point of view on almost any important issue. However, they are ready to endlessly “rebuild” and “reform”, in fact, destroy the country, and the burden of their managerial decisions will be borne by the people.

Some Decembrists offered to create a republic, others - to establish a constitutional monarchy with the possibility of introducing the republic. According to N. Muravyev’s plan, Russia was offered to de-facto dismember the 13 powers and the 2 regions, creating a federation of them. In this case, the powers received the right of separation (self-determination). The manifesto of Prince Sergei Trubetskoy (the prince of Trubetskoy before the uprising was chosen as a dictator) suggested liquidating the “former government” and replacing it with a temporary one until the election of the Constituent Assembly. That is, the Decembrists planned to create an interim government before the Februarylists.

The head of the Southern Society of the Decembrists, Colonel and Freemason Pavel Pestel, wrote one of the program documents - “Russian Truth”. Pestel planned to abolish serfdom, transferring to the peasants half of the arable land fund, the other half was supposed to be left in the ownership of the landowners, which was to contribute to the bourgeois development of the country. Landowners had to lease land to farmers - "capitalists of the agricultural class", which should have led to the organization in the country of large commodity farms with a broad attraction of hired labor. “Russkaya Pravda” abolished not only the estates, but also the national borders - all the tribes and ethnic groups living in Russia planned to unite into a single Russian people. Thus, Pestel planned, by the example of America, to create a kind of "melting pot" in Russia. To speed up this process, national segregation was actually proposed with the division of the Russian population into groups.

Muravyov was a supporter of the preservation of land holdings of landowners. The liberated peasants received only 2 tithing of land, that is, only a personal plot. This site, at the then low level of agrotechnologies, could not feed a large peasant family. The peasants were forced to bow to the landowners, the landowners, who had all the land, meadows and forests, turned into dependent farm laborers, as in Latin America.

Thus, the Decembrists did not have a single, clear program, which could lead, if they won, to an internal conflict. The victory of the Decembrists guaranteed led to the collapse of statehood, the army, the economy, chaos and conflict of classes, different peoples. For example, the mechanism of the great redistribution of land was not described in detail, which led to a conflict between the multimillion-dollar mass of peasants and the landowners-landowners of that time. In the conditions of a radical breakdown of the state structure, the transfer of the capital (they planned to transfer it to Nizhny Novgorod), it was obvious that such a “restructuring” led to a civil war and a new unrest. In the field of state-building, the plans of the Decembrists correlate very clearly with the plans of the separatists of the beginning of the 20th century or the 1990-2000. As well as plans of Western politicians and ideologues who dream of dismembering Great Russia into a number of weak and “independent” states. That is, the possible actions of the "Decembrists" objectively led to confusion and civil war, to the collapse of the powerful Russian empire. The Decembrists were the forerunners of the “Februaryists” who were able to destroy Russian statehood in 1917.

Therefore, Nikolai Pavlovich and shed mud in every way and can not forgive the suppression of the revolt of the "Decembrists". After all, he was able to stop the first major attempt at "perestroika" of Russia, which led to confusion and civil confrontation, to the delight of our Western "partners".

At the same time, Nikolai is accused of inhumane treatment of the Decembrists. However, the ruler of the Russian Empire, Nikolai, who was recorded in the history of "Palkin", showed amazing mercy and philanthropy for the rebels. In any European country, for such a rebellion, many hundreds or thousands of people would be executed in the most cruel way, so that others would be disgraceful. And the military for the rebellion were subject to the death penalty. They would have opened up the whole underground, many lost their posts. In Russia, everything was different: from about 600 people arrested in the case of the Decembrists, almost 300 were acquitted. Only the leaders (and not all of them) were executed - Pestel, Muravyov-Apostol, Ryleyev, Bestuzhev-Rumin, and the murderer of the Life Guards regiment Strens grenadier regiment and Governor Miloradovich - Kakhovsky. 88 people were exiled to hard labor, 18 to the settlement, 15 demoted to soldiers. Corporal punishment was applied to the rebel soldiers and sent to the Caucasus. The “dictator” of the rebels, Prince Trubetskoy, didn’t appear at Senate Square at all, he was scared, sat out at the Austrian ambassador, where he was tied up. At first he denied everything, then confessed and asked for forgiveness from the emperor. And Nicholas I forgave him!

The “Decembrists” were punished not at the request of the “tyrant” Nicholas, but for participating in an armed rebellion. For such a crime has always been executed in all countries and to turn a participant in an armed uprising into an act of personal reprisal is mean and stupid. Nikolai reduced the number of those executed to a minimum. Nicholas I was a strict ruler who demanded that everyone honestly do their duty, but he was not a cruel man, let alone a tyrant. So, when, during the rebellion, the question arose of the need to open fire on the rebels, Nikolay could not decide to give an order to shoot, since this event was exceptional for then-Russia. Adjutant General Vasilchikov told him then: “You cannot waste a minute; now nothing can be done; it is necessary to shoot a canister. " “I had a presentiment of this necessity,” Nicholas writes in his memoirs, “but, I confess, when the time came, I could not decide on such a measure, and I was seized with horror.” “Do you want me to shed the blood of my subjects on the first day of my reign?” I replied. “To save your empire,” he told me. These words brought me to my senses: having come to my senses, I saw that either I should take upon myself to shed the blood of some and almost surely save everything, or, having spared myself, sacrifice decisively the state. ” And the young sovereign decided to sacrifice his peace of mind, but to save Russia from the horrors of revolutionary turmoil. That is, already on this day, Nikolai showed the essence of the Decembrist uprising: “the blood of some” and the salvation of the building of the empire and thousands and thousands of lives, or the death of a power and bloody unrest.

“Through the clouds that darkened the sky for a moment,” Emperor Nicholas I told 20 on December 1825 to the French envoy Count Laferon, “I had the consolation to receive a thousand expressions of high devotion and recognize love Russian people. That is why the recollection of this despicable conspiracy not only does not inspire me the slightest distrust, but also strengthens my gullibility and the absence of fear. Straight and trust more truly disarms hatred than mistrust and suspicion that make up the identity of weakness ... ” “I will show mercy,” Nikolay said further, “there is a lot of mercy, some will say too much; but with the leaders and the instigators of the conspiracy will be received without pity and without mercy. The law will punish them, and not for them I will use my right to pardon. I will be adamant: I have to give this lesson to Russia and Europe. ”
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  1. PKK
    PKK 25 July 2016 06: 07
    +22
    It’s the same fifth column, it still feels comfortable on Russian soil until now. A good reminder that this column digs every minute, every day under Russia, preparing the Maidan.
    Whatever happens as usual, snow suddenly falls in the winter.
    1. Yarik
      Yarik 25 July 2016 06: 27
      -1
      I subscribe to your opinion. With one small clarification - you can cook anything, only that there will be no Maidan in Russia EVER. "Or maybe, fortunately" - (C) "Gangster Petersburg", "Antibiotic". laughing
      1. Donhapa
        Donhapa 25 July 2016 07: 09
        +2
        Quote: Yarik
        I subscribe to your opinion. With one small clarification - you can cook anything, only that there will be no Maidan in Russia EVER. "Or maybe, fortunately" - (C) "Gangster Petersburg", "Antibiotic". laughing

        If suddenly, we must remember that it is certainly not decent people who have a lot of money who will head it.
    2. Pavel1
      Pavel1 25 July 2016 10: 38
      .
      as recently Samsonov, with the tenacity of the doomed / paid, took up the theme of Nikolai1. Who is the customer really novels?
      Whitening this one-hundred-percent reactionary who does not allow anything new into society, which led to the defeat in the war, Samsonov is trying to prove that Nikolai1 is good for the country, but is that so? If not for patricide, then Alexander1 could become such a figure, but Nikolay became.
      In general, considering the Romanov period in our history, it is already possible to say with certainty that the Romanovs are shame and shame in our history. They are cruel slave owners, they are haters of the Russian people who are holding back the development of Russian society with all their might, while the rest of the world has progressed by leaps and bounds. Russia was losing its lands although it seemed that Romanov’s Russia was gaining, but it’s a deceptive impression, because all the acquisitions were due to the collapsing Tartaria, which actually did all the other countries England, France, Sasch.
      Well, in order to hide all the negative phenomena around the world, German historians were involved, whose main task was to write a new false story in favor of the Romanovs.
      As for the Decembrists, it was based on the Russian nobles unconditionally wanting positive changes in society, but the conflict-free methods of overthrowing power could not lead to the overthrow of Nicholas.
      As for the fact that Muravyov called for the division of the country into parts, I don’t believe it, maybe it’s a lie, let Samsonov prove it. Those times of the conquest of Tartaria are marked by layers of historical lies. My conclusion is that the Decembrists were more progressive than the Romanovs, so their coming would be good and not evil for Russia.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 25 July 2016 10: 59
        +4
        "In general, considering the Romanov period in our history, it is already possible with all
        to say with certainty that the Romanovs are a shame and shame in our history "///

        Why are you so all under one comb?
        Tsarina Elizabeth, and especially Catherine II, were quite progressive.
        Both Alexander the 1st and the wonderful Tsar Alexander the 2nd tried to develop
        Russia politically and economically. Not bad, although he did not understand anything in the economy, there was Alexander the 3rd.
        Only both Nicholas were frankly failed.
        1. Pavel1
          Pavel1 25 July 2016 11: 23
          -6
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Catherine 2nd were quite progressive.


          it was during E2 that the false "Russian" history was created - the non-Russians, it was with it that serfdom-slavery blossomed in a violent color. We do not know what happened in those days, because history has been rewritten, one war with Tartary is worth what, to hide the largest state in the world, what to say about the rest of the facts of history.
          Quote: voyaka uh
          And Alexander the 1st,

          the criminal-father-killer will never be washed away again.
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Alexander 2nd tried to develop
          Russia politically and economically

          carried out a half-hearted reform, surrendered Russian America, the "liberation" of the Slavs of the Balkans was to please the Germans, they installed their German tsar in Bulgaria, at the expense of Russian blood, for which he was hated in society, for which they were killed.

          Quote: voyaka uh
          it was dead, although he did not understand anything in the economy, and Alexander was the 3rd.

          Alexander3 inflicted the least damage on Russia, but his attitude to, say, public education says that this king was the same reactionary as the rest of the kings.
          1. Diana Ilyina
            Diana Ilyina 25 July 2016 12: 20
            +17
            Quote: Paul1
            it was during E2 that the false "Russian" history was created - the non-Russians, it was with it that serfdom-slavery blossomed in a violent color. We do not know what happened in those days, because history has been rewritten, one war with Tartary is worth what, to hide the largest state in the world, what to say about the rest of the facts of history.


            In my opinion you need to be treated! The war with Tartaria ... This is where and when ?! Tartaria - what kind of beast is this ?! You would have read less pseudo-historical nonsense, and then at such a pace, and to ancient ukrov not far!
            1. Pavel1
              Pavel1 25 July 2016 12: 48
              -3
              Quote: Diana Ilyina
              In my opinion you need to be treated! The war with Tartaria ... This is where and when ?! Tartaria - what kind of beast is this ?! You would have read less pseudo-historical nonsense, and then at such a pace, and to ancient ukrov not far!


              I am healthy and do not need to be treated. Well, if you would just go to these types of historical local forums, you should know that on EVERY MAP starting from the 15th century to the 19th century there is such a country as Tartaria, that in all encyclopedias 18-19th in French, Spanish, English there are descriptions of the largest country World of Great Tartaria with its capital in Tobolsk. If you want to know the history from school textbooks written by the Germans, the Baeromshlötzermomiller is your problem, but you will never know the truth, but only the falsehood that you slip in for reading.
              1. nadezhiva
                nadezhiva 25 July 2016 13: 42
                +14
                Connoisseur of the Russian language wink
                Tartaria, synonym - Tataria (Latin Tartaria, French. Tartarie, English. Tartary, German. Tatarei) - common a term used in Western European literature and cartography to refer to vast areas from the Caspian to the Pacific Ocean and to the borders of China and India. The use of the term can be traced from the XIII and up to the XIX century. The space, formerly called Tartary, is called Inner or Central Eurasia in modern European tradition.

                Personally, I don't care about the opinion of Western European "scientists" of that time. People who could not distinguish Mongol from Tatar can hardly have any weight in science. And it is hardly worth referring to their opinion in Russian history textbooks.
                PS You would have to repeat the verbs, and then teach those present the History of the Russian State laughing
                1. bk316
                  bk316 25 July 2016 20: 44
                  +5
                  Quote: nadezhiva
                  People who could not distinguish the Mongol from the Tatar,

                  Five points.
                  BUT after all, even now they cannot distinguish a Jew from a Russian ....
                  No, I'm not against the Jews, I just somehow do not want to answer for other people's sins.
                2. Talgat
                  Talgat 26 July 2016 19: 39
                  +4
                  Quote: nadezhiva
                  Personally, I don't care about the opinion of Western European "scientists" of that time. People who could not distinguish Mongol from Tatar can hardly have any weight in science


                  Well said. Europeans are generally poorly versed in the details of the Eurasian empire and the history of the Eurasian peoples. Focus on European sources just do not respect yourself

                  For them, we are all one wild and hostile tartaria - and the Russians for them are also a kind of tartaria

                  I read at Bushkov how they described Atilla - one of the most educated rulers of his time, a strategist and analyst. He was fluent in many foreign languages, the leader of the largest empire - the forerunner of tsarist Russia and the USSR, which fought the West in the face of the Roman Empire (according to Murad Aji, Atilla had the same peoples of our present EAC and CSTO - the ancestors of Russians, Ossetians. Tatars, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz and all other steppes)

                  So - they describe him as some kind of abnormal savage: he rides a horse and rips up bloody raw meat with his teeth, and at the same time, as it were, 0 writes on the go - that is, in one direction, blood in the other urine - and so all day - and all that like that
              2. andrew42
                andrew42 25 July 2016 21: 32
                +2
                If the theme of Tartary is so dear to you, then, I believe, it is not alien and the Vedic worldview should be. In this case, you should understand that the very preservation of the ethnos and its culture, a guarantee against the extermination of the carriers of this value system, depends on who sits on the people's neck (in a good way), that is, on the "Kshatriya caste". You can get lost in philosophy, ideology, religion, but the death of the national (!) Elite is the death of the entire ethnos / people of the tribe. The death is irreversible. Let's say I repeat. for example, the notorious Tartary was in some form. But the confrontation with her was not started by Catherine II, but at least by Alexei Mikhailovich Quiet (the same "Tartar" theme of Razin). Or maybe it began even earlier - with the victory of the Josephites over the non-possessors and with the church / monastery bondage for the peasants (under Ivan III). In any case, under Catherine, any "Tartaria" was a relic, unable to resist the Western elites either militarily, economically or conceptually. One may regret it, but it is foolish to raise it up.
              3. Lexa-149
                Lexa-149 30 July 2016 09: 14
                0
                You learned history from this map ?! Something of all the peoples inhabiting this territory, there is not a single TARTARIN. There are Tatars, Bashkirs, Yakuts, Evenks, etc., but there are no Tartars! I wonder what materials are used by Western cartographers in general. and the researchers drew up maps and made landmarks ?! Where did they get them from ?! Something I don’t remember a single Western "Afanasy Nikitin" 15-17 centuries!
            2. nadezhiva
              nadezhiva 25 July 2016 13: 53
              +6
              Quote: Diana Ilyina
              This is where and when ?! Tartaria - what kind of beast is this ?!
              Never mind. To be honest, it's delusional. Again, they are trying to convince us illiterate barbarians to rewrite history. In short: European "scientists" sculpted with fright for several centuries delirium about the huge Tartary. Well, now, now we are "taught" wink
              The third volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica, published in 1773, contains information about Tartaria:

              Tartaria, a huge country in the north of Asia, bordering Siberia in the north and west: it is called the Great Tartaria. Tartars living south of Muscovy and Siberia in the north-west of the Caspian Sea are called Astrakhan, Cherkasy and Dagestan; Kalmyk Tartars occupy the territory between Siberia and the Caspian Sea; Uzbek Tartars and Mongols live north of Persia and India and, finally, Tibetans live in northwest China.
              Original Text (Eng.)

              In short, everything according to Lavrov: "Morons, ..."
              1. Diana Ilyina
                Diana Ilyina 25 July 2016 14: 21
                +13
                Quote: nadezhiva
                In short, everything according to Lavrov: "Morons, ..."


                I absolutely agree with you! As well as with Mr. Lavrov.
                Instead of learning the history of Russia, albeit not a little rewritten to suit the situation, all kinds of unscientific nonsense appear in the form of Tatraria (in fact, territory, not country) and other nonsense.
                The neighbors, out of this delirium, have already lost their minds for reason. Either the poor dig up the sea, sometimes the vast steppes of Ukraine plow with submarines, then spaceships plow the brains of their president, in the end they go with pots on their heads ...!
                So here we have such individuals here, although it seems that it is not spring already and the exacerbations should have ended ...
                1. Pavel1
                  Pavel1 25 July 2016 14: 29
                  .
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  I absolutely agree with you! As well as with Mr. Lavrov.


                  You are not hired from the dill forum for an hour with all the regalia? I haven’t seen you before.
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  all kinds of unscientific nonsense, in the form of Tatraria (in fact, the territory, not the country)


                  in the encyclopedias of the 17th century, this "territory" has capitals, how can this be?
                  1. nadezhiva
                    nadezhiva 25 July 2016 17: 00
                    +2
                    Quote: Paul1
                    You are not hired from the dill forum for an hour with all the regalia? why haven’t I seen you before
                    laughing With verbs, something like "rusich"?

                    Quote: Paul1
                    in the encyclopedias of the 17th century, this "territory" has capitals, how can this be?
                    Pfffff ..... Here is this encyclopedia, where The Uzbek Tartars and Mongols live north of Persia and India and, finally, the Tibetans live in northwest China it is necessary to drown in the toilet (it is not enough to wet).
                  2. bk316
                    bk316 25 July 2016 20: 47
                    +4
                    Quote: Paul1
                    I haven’t seen you before.

                    This may be because they registered less than 2 months ago laughing
            3. Rivares
              Rivares 25 July 2016 15: 39
              +1
              Quote: Diana Ilyina
              The war with Tartaria ... This is where and when ?! Tartaria - what kind of beast is this ?!

              In Pskov, the museum took a photo of a map taken from a French traveler who was secretly engaged in cartography, which was strictly prohibited in those days (1709)
              1. nadezhiva
                nadezhiva 25 July 2016 17: 09
                +2
                Yes, you understand. Uzbek tartars and Mongols, Tibetan tartars ..... this is just a version that existed among enlightened Europeans. Moreover, the Europeans did not separate them as nations and did not bother with the differences between the Tartars and the Mongols. It was one continuous, terrible and wild Tartaria. Do not go into the wilds.
                Another 100 years will pass and the lying Europeans will begin to erase Muscovy in encyclopedias / textbooks. There will be one solid Tartaria laughing
                1. Rivares
                  Rivares 25 July 2016 17: 40
                  +3
                  Quote: nadezhiva
                  Yes, you understand. Uzbek tartars and Mongols, Tibetan tartars ..... this is just a version,

                  Moreover, it is supported by such facts that the Roman Empire, Greece, England should be recognized as just a version))) Well, if the Europeans are so deceitful, then you admit that the modern Millerian (i.e. European) history of Russia is also very deceitful. By the way, but on the map there are no "Uzbek" tartaries you mentioned)) can you throw off the link so as not to be unfounded?
                  PS
                  Quote: nadezhiva
                  Do not go into the wilds.

                  This wilds is our legacy. I’ll definitely go there.
                  1. nadezhiva
                    nadezhiva 25 July 2016 22: 57
                    -2
                    Quote: Rivares
                    I’ll definitely go there.

                    Climb. The third volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica, published in 1773, contains information about Tartaria. Find yourself?
              2. Diana Ilyina
                Diana Ilyina 25 July 2016 18: 30
                +8
                Quote: Rivares
                In Pskov, the museum took a photo of a map taken from a French traveler who was secretly engaged in cartography, which was strictly prohibited in those days (1709)


                Very funny! The price of this card is 1709, half a penny, and then, with a huge overpayment! Bulgaria - this is probably the one that Svyatoslav still won ?! And she was north. I draw your attention to the fact that the names Tartaria are everywhere spelled the same, except for the lower right corner, it says -TaPtaria. So the price of this card and its compilers is worthless!

                Once again, Western pseudo-historians are trying to rewrite our history, and you play along with them here! And I’ll draw you such cards in a couple of days, you can’t tell them from natural ones!

                I repeat, the opinion of all Frenchmen, Englishmen, Germans and other crooks that the 18th and 21st centuries don't interest me! At that time they had no idea what it was like to wash at least once a week, and they are still trying to teach us "not educated" our history!
                1. Pavel1
                  Pavel1 25 July 2016 21: 30
                  -1
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  And I’ll draw you such cards in a couple of days, you can’t tell them from natural ones!


                  you are mistaken that in order to become a counterfeiter you have to study for a long time, otherwise you will be hand in hand and in jail ...
              3. Svidetel 45
                Svidetel 45 26 July 2016 00: 15
                +1
                Who and why forbade cartography to European researchers in Russia? Peter |?
            4. KaPToC
              KaPToC 25 July 2016 17: 25
              +2
              Diana, you should read literature, do self-education, the name Tartaria is present on many old maps. You will be surprised, but the story is not what you taught at school.
              1. Oleg Monarchist
                Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 17: 53
                +1
                It is harmful for you, Mr. KARTOS, to engage in "self-education" if you draw a conclusion about the existence of a certain state "Tartary" on the basis of medieval Western European maps. Do not tell us about the state of "Chukhonia", the Chukhonians still lived there, they really, through thoughtlessness, consider themselves Estonians (now Estonians).
                1. Pavel1
                  Pavel1 25 July 2016 18: 19
                  0
                  Quote: Oleg Monarchist
                  Do not tell us about the state of "Chukhonia", the Chukhonians still lived there, they really, through thoughtlessness, consider themselves Estonians (now Estonians).


                  and what is the state of Chukhonia, can show a map?
                  1. nadezhiva
                    nadezhiva 25 July 2016 23: 00
                    -1
                    Quote: Paul1
                    and what is the state of Chukhonia, can show a map?

                    And can you send to Pushkin wink
                    ◆ On the mossy, marshy shores blackened huts here and there, the shelter of the wretched Chukhonets.
                    AS Pushkin
                2. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 25 July 2016 18: 21
                  +1
                  Quote: Oleg Monarchist
                  Do not tell us about the state "Chukhonia

                  A certain state existed, no matter how it is called, however I will not throw a bisser, you will figure it out yourself.
          2. andrew42
            andrew42 25 July 2016 21: 21
            +5
            Maybe under Catherine / Fick, a "false Russian history" was created, but this is not a reason to change a small abomination to an immeasurably greater one. The era of Catherine - the domination of the RUSSIAN aristocracy, whatever one may say. Even indiscriminate domination, I would say, many ruled not according to merit, "Peter's" social elevators stood tight. You, as I understand it, in pursuit of a "truly Russian" idea are ready to change your national master for an "enlightened" Western "director of the liquidation commission." Truly, neither 1610, 1825, nor 1917, nor 1991 will teach you anything. Not for the future.
            1. Pavel1
              Pavel1 25 July 2016 21: 53
              0
              Quote: andrew42
              The era of Catherine - the rule of the RUSSIAN aristocracy, whatever one may say


              no wrong, serfdom is slavery is a crime to subject people to exploitation and to punish physically is the worst evil that one person can cause another. And such relations cannot be among the representatives of ONE PEOPLE; such relations can only be between the conqueror and the conquered. Therefore, after Peter the RUSSIAN KNOWLEDGE, the boyars and Boyars' children were destroyed, and the Western conquerors replaced them, they took the Russian names of the noble families Dolgoruky, Golitsyn and others. The German conquerors of Russia divided the state into small estates and estates and a wild orgy began in the country violence against the Russian people.
              1. Diana Ilyina
                Diana Ilyina 25 July 2016 22: 53
                +8
                Quote: Paul1
                no wrong, serfdom is slavery is a crime to subject people to exploitation and to punish physically is the worst evil that one person can cause another.


                And what, at that time in other countries it was somehow different ?! Probably there was no slavery in "enlightened" Europe ?! Are you really not a distant person or are you just pretending ?! What is your "authoritative" opinion then the system in Russia could be ?! Well, what will be the assumptions ?! Was communism really possible even then ?! How do you think uneducated peasants could equip Russia ?! Or had the Decembrists come to power under Catherine, would there have been splendor in Russia ?!

                All your promises, promises of a pustozovolon and Russophobe trying to denigrate the history of Russia, whatever it may be! And you beat Catherine the Great for a reason. It was with her that Russia reached the peak of its power, it was with her that Russia acquired the largest territorial acquisitions, it was under Catherine that not a single gun in Europe could fire without Russia's permission. In the same way, you and your kind are trying to denigrate the most prominent figures of Russia: Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Elizaveta Petrovna, Catherine the Great, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, etc.
                1. Pavel1
                  Pavel1 25 July 2016 23: 01
                  0
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  And what, at that time in other countries it was somehow different ?! Probably there was no slavery in "enlightened" Europe ?!


                  and what in Europe in the 18-19th century was serfdom?
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  Are you really not a distant person or just pretend to be ?!


                  Well, you are, of course, far away ... laughing

                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  Was communism possible even then?

                  what communism, what are you persecuting, is it talking about communism?

                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  How do you think uneducated peasants could equip Russia

                  to such "specialists" like you, for whom the Mahabharata is a Chinese letter, I inform you that more than a thousand have already been found in the Novgorod birch bark letters, it is noted by wordists that the people of those years were surprisingly literate and people wrote without mistakes, so this was to the RIGHT OF CREW ...
                  1. Svidetel 45
                    Svidetel 45 26 July 2016 00: 33
                    +4
                    In Prussia, serfdom was almost the same.
                    1. Pavel1
                      Pavel1 26 July 2016 00: 56
                      -2
                      Quote: Svidetel 45
                      In Prussia, serfdom was almost the same.


                      and you are not lying?
                      1. Svidetel 45
                        Svidetel 45 26 July 2016 23: 55
                        +1
                        You don’t know the history of Western Europe.
                2. nadezhiva
                  nadezhiva 25 July 2016 23: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  And what, at that time in other countries it was somehow different ?! Probably there was no slavery in "enlightened" Europe ?!

                  I haven’t had such fun for a long time. Diana, you are well done. Enlightened Europeans settled the whole continent as slaves. And how many were among those slaves of the Irish and the British, probably no one will ever be able to count. Extra people.
                3. Pavel1
                  Pavel1 25 July 2016 23: 15
                  -4
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  All your promises, promises of a pustozovolon and Russophobe trying to denigrate the history of Russia, whatever it may be!


                  cool, but the well-known technique, when the thief himself has to shout the loudest of all - "stop the thief" ...

                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  And you beat Catherine the Great for a reason. It was with her that Russia reached the peak of its power, it was with her that Russia acquired the largest territorial

                  not Russia, but Romanov Russia i.e. German ...

                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  In the same way, you and your kind are trying to denigrate the most prominent figures of Russia: Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Elizaveta Petrovna, Catherine the Great, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, etc.

                  like you mixed a small bunch, completely forgotten nicholas, Lenin and Nikita, they won’t appreciate it.
                  Uncultured opponents such as you are not even interested in speaking, you don’t have anything behind your soul because the formation of the EG minus logic and sanity but there is a lot of impudence, you would like to have an audience spreading right and left with Russophobia, empty chimes and other gag ...
                  1. Svidetel 45
                    Svidetel 45 27 July 2016 00: 01
                    +5
                    But in addition to aggressive ambition and self-confidence that you are a storehouse of true knowledge, there is nothing in your judgments.
                4. Svidetel 45
                  Svidetel 45 26 July 2016 00: 31
                  +1
                  Well, you are exaggerating the role of Catherine, on the contrary, the period of her reign was marked by the beginning of the degradation of all those achievements that Russia had thanks to the activities of Peter the Great. Such is the inertial nature of state reforms, they do not bear fruit immediately, after years, and sometimes tens of years, Peter's reforms yielded results just during the reign of Catherine, but the "fruits" of her reign began to manifest themselves in the first quarter of the 19th century and beyond.
                5. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 26 July 2016 22: 05
                  -2
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  And what, at that time in other countries it was somehow different ?!

                  You just spat on other countries, and now you are following them.
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  And you beat Catherine the Great for a reason. It was with her that Russia reached the peak of its power, it was with her that Russia acquired the largest territorial acquisitions

                  As it is not beautiful to lie, the Russian state was built by Ivan the Terrible.
              2. Svidetel 45
                Svidetel 45 26 July 2016 00: 22
                +1
                Come on, tell tales, if you read the annals, it is clear that even before Peter the boyars and princes of their slaves and peasants were subjected to physical punishment, another thing is that the enslavement of the peasants after Peter, and especially under Catherine || culminated.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. larand
        larand 25 July 2016 18: 30
        +5
        Quote: Paul1
        as recently Samsonov, with the tenacity of the doomed / paid, took up the theme of Nikolai1. Who is the customer really novels?


        One of the favorite fun in Russia is rewriting history to fit the needs of time. The Decembrists are heroes, no Decembrists are traitors and Westernizers. Pavlik is a pioneer hero, no Pavlik is a snitch. Zoya is a brave Komsomol member, there was no feat of Zoya, Lenin is our everything, no Lenin is a mushroom with syphilis. Etc. etc. And every next scribe approves his story as if he himself was present at the described historical moment. And their links to archives and documents are naive. Judging by the behavior of today's "historians", their predecessors in the depths of centuries also "objectively" wrote history to please the then rulers. History is even more venal than statistics.
      4. Rastas
        Rastas 25 July 2016 18: 54
        0
        They are also pretty fed up with these articles about the "tyrants-Decembrists" and the "noble knight" Nicholas 1. Something similar Samsonov has recently written about the Decembrists, now again, like a mantra repeating the same thing. Is there really no person on the site who is able to write an article from a different point of view to complete the picture. After all, history has put everything in its place: the Decembrists were right in their desire for changes in Russia.
      5. zenion
        zenion 25 July 2016 19: 44
        0
        The author forgot to add to Russophobia Pushkin and Kozma Prutkov. They also wrote unflattering about Nikolai. In general, the motivation of the author who wants to denigrate the whole of Russian society for the sake of whom is incomprehensible. Who paid for the music? Who is dancing him?
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 25 July 2016 20: 16
          +6
          Quote: zenion
          The author forgot to add to Russophobia Pushkin and Kozma Prutkov.

          Prutkov - did not exist in nature, and Pushkin shortly before his death greatly changed his views on Russia and the tsar. Perhaps that’s why he died.
      6. Dart2027
        Dart2027 25 July 2016 20: 15
        +3
        Quote: Paul1
        As for the fact that Muravyov called for the division of the country into parts, I don’t believe it, maybe it's a lie
        Chapter IV. About Russia
        43: In legislative and executive relations, all of Russia is divided into 13 Powers, 2 regions and 568 counties or districts.
        The entire population relies on 22 males, and by this assumption the representation of this has been calculated:

        Lies? I don’t know stupidity or treason, but it wouldn’t end in anything good.
        Quote: Paul1
        These are cruel slave owners, these are haters of the Russian people who are holding back the development of Russian society with all their might, while the rest of the world has progressed by leaps and bounds

        All the countries of that time were slave-owning. Of course, if you count blacks, Asians, Arabs, etc. for the people.
        Quote: Paul1
        Russia was losing its land although it seemed that Romanov Russia was gaining
        How's that?
        Quote: Paul1
        that Nikolay1 is good for the country, but is it so
        Good. The liberals hate him.
        1. Pavel1
          Pavel1 25 July 2016 22: 01
          0
          Quote: Dart2027
          lava IV. About Russia
          43: In legislative and executive relations, all of Russia is divided into 13 Powers, 2 regions and 568 counties or districts.
          The entire population relies on 22 males, and by this assumption the representation of this has been calculated:

          link let's ...
          Quote: Dart2027
          All the countries of that time were slave-owning. Of course, if you count blacks, Asians, Arabs, etc. for the people.

          I won’t worry about blacks, but the attitude of the Romanovs towards the Russians is not forgotten ...

          Quote: Dart2027
          How's that?

          and so http://ruvera.ru/data/img/content/2-010.jpg


          Quote: Dart2027
          Good. The liberals hate him.

          liberals are a lie to lies, therefore, to believe them only because they do not like Nikolay for anything is not a landmark in history, by the way the Bolsheviks did not like tsars.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 25 July 2016 22: 53
            +3
            Quote: Paul1
            link let's ...

            http://constitution.garant.ru/history/act1600-1918/5400/#sub_para_N_34000
            Quote: Paul1
            but the attitude of the Romanovs to the Russians is not forgotten

            And what is the relation? At that time, RI was an ordinary country, no better and no worse than others. Do you think a simple English peasant was freer than a Russian serf?
            Quote: Paul1
            and so //ruvera.ru/data/img/content/2-010.jpg

            A country can either increase or decrease, but not both at the same time.
            Quote: Paul1
            therefore, to believe them only because they do not like Nikolay in anything is not a landmark in history, by the way the Bolsheviks also did not like tsars

            And the Bolsheviks did not like. That's just, in my observation, if liberals hate someone, then this is the best recommendation.
            1. Svidetel 45
              Svidetel 45 26 July 2016 00: 40
              +2
              That's what the Bolsheviks are swinging about, they elevated the Decembrists as a symbol of the struggle against the autocracy, however, it was they who figured out, and very quickly and radically in the 20-30s, with all these liberals and democrats of the Western Empire, followers of those Decembrists.
            2. Pavel1
              Pavel1 26 July 2016 00: 51
              -1
              Quote: Dart2027
              //constitution.garant.ru/history/act1600-1918/5400/#sub_para_N_34000

              well, you didn’t understand the constitution of Muravyov, just like Samsonov, the country is divided NOT IN SEPARATE STATES, but into administrative districts-POWER, over which the emperor and the PEOPLE'S EVE. These Powers do not have the rights of a sovereign state to print money or to make external relations. In short, did you decide to deceive people, or what?
              Quote: Dart2027
              Quote: Paul1
              and so //ruvera.ru/data/img/content/2-010.jpg

              A country can either increase or decrease, but not both at the same time.


              it’s not that some kind of left link got out, but I actually gave a link to the largest map of Great Tartaria. In general, strange things are happening on the fuel; many pictures have ceased to be inserted; this is not casual.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 26 July 2016 06: 21
                +3
                Quote: Paul1
                well, you didn’t understand the Muravyov’s constitution, just like Samsonov, the country is divided NOT into SEPARATE STATES, but into administrative districts-POWER

                Did you hear the story of how the builders of the USSR created these power districts? And how did it all end? Do you know what is happening in Ukraine now? Here it is.
                Quote: Dart2027
                I don’t know stupidity or treason, but it wouldn’t end in anything good.
                1. Pavel1
                  Pavel1 26 July 2016 09: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Did you hear the story of how the builders of the USSR created these power districts? And how did it all end? Do you know what is happening in Ukraine now? Here it is.


                  The Bolsheviks built the USSR on the basis of false messages about the "equality" of peoples, and this is what they proceeded from when they divided the country into national republics. Captain Muravyov did not offer any equality, and therefore his constitution does not contain serious flaws ...
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 26 July 2016 19: 29
                    +1
                    Any division into states, even formal, is a time bomb. I don’t know what he wanted, but it’s good that this did not work out.
                  2. bober1982
                    bober1982 26 July 2016 21: 27
                    +1
                    Pavel1 .... and therefore its constitution does not contain serious flaws.
                    Muravyov was a poet, philosopher, writer, scholar-man of the Enlightenment, that is, a talker, a dreamer, a demagogue. What kind of Constitution could he write? The same crazy.
      7. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 26 July 2016 00: 04
        +4
        Well, yes, in the same blessing as the coming to power in the USSR in the 80s of such "progressive" figures as Gorbachev, Yakovlev, Shevardnadze and the like, which led to the collapse of the USSR, these are all those who also threw slogans to the left and to the right about progress and development of the country, but in the end they completed the work of the Decembrists, The West won from the collapse of the USSR, as well as the nationalists and the newly-born nouveau riches, but not the peoples of the republics that were previously the USSR. Once again the idea is confirmed that the road to hell is often paved with good intentions. The best path of development is evolution, not revolution, and only due to tragic objective circumstances does the second become necessary.
      8. Monarchist
        Monarchist 26 July 2016 15: 32
        +1
        "Tyrant Nikola" paid pensions to the families of state officials and the families of the defenders of the autocracy, and the good "grandfather" Lenin demanded to shoot and shoot priests and hostages (read Karpov's "Generalissimo"). Now the "reactionary" Nikolai and the progressive Decembrists: he has already said about the pensions of the victims that Muravyov wanted to dismember Russia - even during the Soviet Union, documents of the Decembrists were printed. By the way, Pestel also has this in Russkaya Pravda. I recommend reading Nechkin's memoirs of the Decembrists. "Progressive" Pestel robbed his soldiers, slandered everyone "that they were executed5, not 150 cases. At least Pestel did everything possible (Obolensky) Ryleev robbed the family of his benefactor. Everything was published in the Union, is in the archives. Read: Kiyavskaya, memoirs of EIV Nikolai1 and other authors
      9. Lexa-149
        Lexa-149 30 July 2016 08: 56
        0
        the Decembrists were more progressive than the Romanovs, so their coming would be good for Russia, not evil.

        It is quite possible. However, they themselves did not really know what they wanted. Each of them wanted something of his own. Moreover, no one had a concrete, detailed plan. So, a general mirage picture of a possible future. IA Krylov once said: "When there is no agreement among the comrades, their business will not go well ..."
        In practice, we were convinced that the restructuring of the huge state machine and putting it on a new track is associated with huge sacrifices (human, financial, material, international and political ...).
        To steer the state along a different path of development is not a horse to turn!
        I don’t argue, our kings were far from ideal, but Russia did not need such a drama either. And in many troubles connected with the technical backwardness of Russia, it was not the kings who were to blame, but the officials who were sitting in the ministries. Remember a recent article about Mozhaysky and his plane. However, now the same garbage is happening ...
  2. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 25 July 2016 06: 37
    +13
    In general, the mild punishment of the rebels is still amazing. request
    1. Donhapa
      Donhapa 25 July 2016 07: 06
      +3
      Quote: Vladimirets
      In general, the mild punishment of the rebels is still amazing. request

      Of course, these jammed sybarites must be rolled out to the North Pole.
    2. Kim Klimov
      Kim Klimov 25 July 2016 10: 18
      +6
      In general, in Soviet times, they blasphemed Nicholas I in every way and extolled these Decembrist Masons to heaven. I mean, they put everything upside down. The attitude of the liquid Bolsheviks towards the history of Russia and the autocracy was always different in a furiously negative color. Having seized power illegally, they first began to destroy the monuments and the very memory of autocratic Russia.
      1. Diana Ilyina
        Diana Ilyina 25 July 2016 10: 26
        +7
        Quote: Kim Klimov
        In general, in Soviet times, they blasphemed Nicholas I in every way and extolled these Decembrist Masons to heaven. I mean, they put everything upside down. The attitude of the liquid Bolsheviks towards the history of Russia and the autocracy was always different in a furiously negative color. Having seized power illegally, they first began to destroy the monuments and the very memory of autocratic Russia.


        God, what a syllable, what pathos ... "Judeo-Bolsheviks", "Autocratic Russia", you will not be one of the New Monarchists for an hour ?!

        As for the leniency of punishment, I agree, it is not clear where such leniency comes from. In general, Nicholas I, a very controversial figure and little coverage in textbooks.
        1. Zulu_S
          Zulu_S 25 July 2016 15: 39
          +3
          Quote: Diana Ilyina
          Nicholas I, a very controversial figure and little coverage in textbooks.

          Who is stopping you from looking for information outside of textbooks?
      2. Rastas
        Rastas 25 July 2016 20: 50
        +3
        Listen, you are not at a noble assembly. Where did you, gentleman-nobleman, get that Soviet historiography extolled the Decembrists to heaven? Name the books then. Soviet historiography just objectively and critically assessed their mistakes and miscalculations, analyzed their defeat, but paid tribute to their desire to benefit Russia. At least then such populist articles were not written.
      3. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 26 July 2016 01: 15
        +2
        It is wrong to scratch everyone one size fits all, Some destroyed history and monuments, like the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, others, like Stalin, returned it, it was he who, back in the mid-30s, first noted not only the negative, but also some positive role of Orthodoxy in history Russia, long before the start of the war, returned many "old-regime" ideological values, such as the institution of the family, classical theater, ballet, music, history itself, as a discipline in educational institutions. Maybe at first there was cosmopolitan inter-Bolshevism, but gradually the statesmen, supporters of the national idea took over in it, therefore, the Bolsheviks can be represented as a homogeneous mass only through ignorance or deliberately. As for legitimacy, let's remember how the princes in Russia fought for the Kiev and then Moscow throne, slaughtered each other like rams, did Catherine or Alexander legitimately come to power? Aha, of course, the pope slammed and here he is, the new legitimate ruler. Any power gives rise to force and violence, and only then the victors provide an ideological justification for the legitimacy of this power. So it was in the past, and so it is now, in our time.
    3. jktu66
      jktu66 25 July 2016 17: 01
      +2
      leniency
      Such they are tyrants and tyrants, and Alexander 1, well aware of the secret northern and southern societies of Ryleyev and Pestel, and his brother Nikolai 1
    4. Rastas
      Rastas 25 July 2016 20: 57
      0
      You forget that Russia was then an estate state. And the execution of the nobles was somehow not in accordance with the notions, it's not some peasants.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 25 July 2016 21: 27
        +1
        Quote: Rastas
        You forget that Russia was then an estate state. And the execution of the nobles was somehow not in accordance with the notions, it's not some peasants.

        For "this" just questions would not have been.
  3. baudolino
    baudolino 25 July 2016 06: 51
    +15
    Beginning with Peter, almost all accessions were accompanied by forceful support from the guards. For 100 years, the guards have imagined themselves to be a decisive political force. And all this "democratic" husk in the projects was inspired by the then romanticism. Thanks to Nikolai, Russia received some kind of stability for 90 years.
  4. Lindon
    Lindon 25 July 2016 06: 59
    -7
    I see no reason to assess the "Decembrists".
    These are not hungry illiterate tramps from workers and peasants.
    This is the cream of high society thinking about the homeland, and went to the chopping block for freedom.
    They knew what they were facing and they answered.
    Everybody read Tolstoy's War and Peace?
    Like articles by Alexander Samsonov, but not this time.
    1. Diana Ilyina
      Diana Ilyina 25 July 2016 11: 21
      +11
      Quote: Lindon
      This is the cream of high society thinking about the motherland, and went to the chopping block for freedom.


      They "thought" about the Motherland in the same way that Yavlinsky, Mitrokhin, Stankevich, Nadezhdin, Tsipko and other "cream" of society think about it. The guys just wanted to banally push the tsar away from the state feeder and harass Russia themselves.
      1. Pavel1
        Pavel1 25 July 2016 11: 31
        -1
        Quote: Diana Ilyina
        They "thought" about the Motherland in the same way that Yavlinsky, Mitrokhin, Stankevich, Nadezhdin, Tsipko and other "cream" of society think about it. The guys just wanted to banally push the tsar away from the state feeder and harass Russia themselves.


        in general, comparing the nobles whose whole purpose in life was SERVICE TO THE FATHERLAND with our current "Russian politicians" who have it written on their foreheads SELL / EARN does not correspond to reality, because the corrupt-mercantile-capitalist times have not yet come. If anyone sold Russia, it was the novels that occupied the redivision of the world to please the new countries of the USA, Hungary, Romania, Greece and, accordingly, the infringement of the Slavs around the world.
        1. Diana Ilyina
          Diana Ilyina 25 July 2016 12: 15
          +7
          Quote: Paul1
          in general, comparing the nobles whose whole purpose in life was SERVICE TO THE FATHERLAND with our current "Russian politicians" who have it written on their foreheads SELL / EARN does not correspond to reality, because the corrupt-mercantile-capitalist times have not yet come. If anyone sold Russia, it was the novels that occupied the redivision of the world to please the new countries of the USA, Hungary, Romania, Greece and, accordingly, the infringement of the Slavs around the world.


          Forgive the infringement of which Slavs ?! And in what world ?! Slavs live quite compactly in the territory from central Europe to the Ural Range. If you think that Elizaveta Petrovna or Catherine the Great were wrong to infringe on the Poles (also Slavs), then let me disagree with you. You know, do not distort the facts in history, even if you do not like the Romanovs, this does not mean that all of them, without exception, acted to the detriment of Russia! This is not true! So be objective in your assessments and do not distort the story; it does not forgive mistakes.
          1. Pavel1
            Pavel1 25 July 2016 12: 57
            -1
            Quote: Diana Ilyina
            grow infringement of which Slavs ?! And in what world ?! Slavs live quite compactly in the territory from central Europe to the Ural Range.


            But about the Lusatian Srbs living in Germany, of course they never heard of? And the fact that ALL Germany has a huge number of toponyms in Russian was not understood, and the fact that ETRUS has been decrypted and read in Russian for a long time, also do not know? And the fact that Mahabharota and Ramayama in Sanskrit are easy to read in Russian, too, have not heard? Where do such ignoramuses come from, watch TV for less if you want to know anything other than history books.
            How the Hungarian people were created, there are Slovenian scholars who described how they made Hungarian one-on-one from the Slovenian people, what is happening in Ukraine now when Russian is banned.
            1. Diana Ilyina
              Diana Ilyina 25 July 2016 13: 43
              +7
              Quote: Paul1
              But about the Lusatian Srbs living in Germany, of course they never heard of? And the fact that ALL Germany has a huge number of toponyms in Russian was not understood, and the fact that ETRUS has been decrypted and read in Russian for a long time, also do not know? And the fact that Mahabharota and Ramayama in Sanskrit are easy to read in Russian, too, have not heard? Where do such ignoramuses come from, watch TV for less if you want to know anything other than history books.
              How the Hungarian people were created, there are Slovenian scholars who described how they made Hungarian one-on-one from the Slovenian people, what is happening in Ukraine now when Russian is banned.


              You are sure to see a doctor. Here in a neighboring country, too, they got to the point that the first mammoths were ancient Ukrainians, well, there they talked about how they dug up the sea, about how they defeated Xerxes’s army, about Kozak Mamaia and other crap. You quote me a cutter, for a complete understanding, so to speak. You can tell your followers about runes, Vedas, etc. I don’t care, I don’t live in alternative worlds.
              1. Pavel1
                Pavel1 25 July 2016 13: 57
                +1
                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                Quote: Paul1
                But about the Lusatian Srbs living in Germany, of course they never heard of? And the fact that ALL Germany has a huge number of toponyms in Russian was not understood, and the fact that ETRUS has been decrypted and read in Russian for a long time, also do not know? And the fact that Mahabharota and Ramayama in Sanskrit are easy to read in Russian, too, have not heard? Where do such ignoramuses come from, watch TV for less if you want to know anything other than history books.
                How the Hungarian people were created, there are Slovenian scholars who described how they made Hungarian one-on-one from the Slovenian people, what is happening in Ukraine now when Russian is banned.


                You are sure to see a doctor. Here in a neighboring country, too, they got to the point that the first mammoths were ancient Ukrainians, well, there they talked about how they dug up the sea, about how they defeated Xerxes’s army, about Kozak Mamaia and other crap. You quote me a cutter, for a complete understanding, so to speak. You can tell your followers about runes, Vedas, etc. I don’t care, I don’t live in alternative worlds.


                the level of intelligence corresponds to the level of culture, not only does it know nothing and doesn’t want to know anything, it’s the diagnosis of Jehovah’s witnesses, they’ll let us believe from above, then we’ll talk, but for now we’ll scuff up. There is nothing to talk about with you.
                1. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 25 July 2016 14: 13
                  +7
                  Quote: Paul1
                  the level of intelligence corresponds to the level of culture, not only does it know anything and doesn’t want to know anything, it’s a diagnosis of Jehovah’s witnesses,


                  You correctly noticed about yourself, "expert" you are our homebrew ... lol

                  Quote: Paul1
                  There is nothing to talk about with you.


                  Like me and you ... fool By the way, judging by the number of minuses to your comments, few people believe in your pseudo-historical nonsense!
                  1. Pavel1
                    Pavel1 25 July 2016 14: 24
                    +3
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    Like me and you ... fool By the way, judging by the number of minuses to your comments, few people believe in your pseudo-historical nonsense!


                    Well, the argumentation has acquired a familiar look, no, it's not so easy this is a territory in which the truth is not welcome, therefore "public opinion" is created with the help of specially trained people-cutters and programs to maintain this very "opinion".
                  2. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 25 July 2016 17: 41
                    +2
                    Dear non-respected opponents, on matters of faith in religious sites. Diana, so that you know for the future, the truth is not determined by voting.
                    1. bk316
                      bk316 25 July 2016 20: 57
                      +4
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      truth is not determined by voting.

                      Of course not determined.
                      However, the country and people are determined precisely by the self-determination of the population (and not by the delights of scribblers who have never been in this country). Ask the Buryats or Uzbeks if they consider themselves Tatars.
                      1. Pavel1
                        Pavel1 25 July 2016 21: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: bk316
                        Ask the Buryats or Uzbeks if they consider themselves Tatars.


                        the nation of Uzbeks was merged into one by the Bolsheviks from the actual Uzbeks, Tatars and Sarts. Sarts are the European population in the Syr Darya who speak Turkish and profess Islam. The same can be said about the Tatars. This is known from the 1897 census of the Russian Empire.
            2. Outsider V.
              Outsider V. 25 July 2016 22: 08
              +1
              How the Hungarian people were created, there are Slovenian scholars who described how they made the Hungarian one-on-one out of the Slovenian people


              This is epic! Hungarians related to Finno-Ugric (Finno-Finnish) language group, it turns out, failed Slovenes! I also understand when Chekhov is confused with Slovaks, and Slovaks with Slovenes (Slovenes themselves call their language slovenský), but Hungarians! fool

              Etruscan has long been decrypted and read in Russian


              You still say that Prussian language - this is a well-forgotten Russian, just "p" has been lost over the centuries ...
              1. Pavel1
                Pavel1 25 July 2016 22: 22
                -2
                Quote: By outsiders V.
                This is epic! Hungarians belonging to the Finno-Ugric (Finno-Ugric) language group, it turns out, failed Slovenes! I also understand when Chekhov is confused with Slovaks, and Slovaks with Slovenes (Slovenes themselves call their language slovenský), but Hungarians!


                you stupid before you tap your head on the head read the Slovenian slovenists Matey Bor and Ivan Tomazic
                The collection is a unique study of European antiquities in its entirety. It includes the works of Slovenian and Russian scientists, without which it is impossible to understand and correctly interpret the origins of our civilization. These are, first of all, two monographs of the prominent Slavic writer Matei Bohr, where a translation of Venetian and Etruscan inscriptions with philological comments is given, as well as essays by Ivan Tomazic on the origin of the Slovene ethnic group. In the appendix: a review of the alpine toponymy of I. Shavli, an archaeological essay by A. Gudz-Markov on Indo-European roots, a brief overview of the Slovenian history of A. Lenarchich, a bibliographic review of P. Tulaev and other materials. The publication contains 140 illustrations, including photographs of ancient inscriptions and maps.

                http://ustierechi.ucoz.ru/load/3-1-0-109
                1. Outsider V.
                  Outsider V. 25 July 2016 22: 38
                  +1
                  So, quietly!

                  Firstly, do not poke and throw all sorts of words.

                  I re-read the phrase about Hungarians and Slovenes and realized that I seemed to have interpreted it incorrectly. If it refers to what the Slovenes tried to make Hungarians, then my comment is incorrect, and I was wrong. But CONSENT that this phrase was formulated chaotically.
                2. Outsider V.
                  Outsider V. 25 July 2016 22: 43
                  0
                  By the way, Slavist, not Slavist. From the word Slavic.
                  1. Pavel1
                    Pavel1 25 July 2016 22: 54
                    0
                    Quote: Outsider V.
                    By the way, Slavist, not Slavist. From the word Slavic.


                    damn again past
                    WORD WORD from the word WORD, a specialist in the study of word forms and word building, a synonym for philologist ...
                    1. Outsider V.
                      Outsider V. 26 July 2016 09: 44
                      0
                      WORD from the word WORD, a specialist in the study of word forms and word building, a synonym for philologist


                      Perhaps a strange term vocabulary (from the word) it is also used (Wikipedia devoted one line to it in the article of the same name), but in the context of the issues discussed, we are talking about Slavistics (a science that studies the culture of Slavic peoples) and Slavists.

                      Compare the text you wrote
                      Quote: Paul1
                      ... Slovenian wordsоWhist Matey Bor ...


                      and the quote you cited:
                      These are, first of all, two monographs of an outstanding class.аVista Matey Bora, where the translation of Venetian and Etruscan inscriptions with philological comments is given


                      And be a little calmer, we all make mistakes at times.
                      1. Pavel1
                        Pavel1 26 July 2016 11: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        It is possible that the strange term slovist (from the word) is also used (Wikipedia devoted one line to it in the article of the same name), but in the context of the issues discussed it is a matter of Slavistics (a science that studies the culture of Slavic peoples) and Slavists.


                        I wrote to you that the WORD is the same as the PHILOLOGY-LOVE for the WORD, well, since there are researchers of the words of the Slavic SLAVIS, then this does not contradict the term WORD, but only supplements and clarifies.
                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        And be a little calmer, we all make mistakes at times.


                        I was not mistaken in anything, because that’s exactly how I think you will follow yourself ...
                      2. Outsider V.
                        Outsider V. 26 July 2016 13: 04
                        0
                        I wrote to you that the WORD is the same as the PHILOLOGY-LOVE for the WORD, well, since there are researchers of the words of the Slavic SLAVIS, then this does not contradict the term WORD, but only supplements and clarifies

                        I was not mistaken in anything, because that’s exactly how I think you will follow yourself ...

                        Slavic studies is not just a study of Slavic words. Slavic studies also study "the history, material and spiritual culture of the Slavic peoples" (I took the quote from Wikipedia). The term is widespread (although it seems to be a discovery for you), many universities around the world have Slavic departments.

                        As for your vocabulary - term. probably has a right to exist, but it is very exotic (at least rarely used). Try Google something serious about him. Most often, one comes across ridicule about "wordists" and "phrasemakers". I have not met the faculties of "vocabulary".

                        But, by the way, this is not related to the topic of the article. I propose to minimize the discussion.
                      3. Pavel1
                        Pavel1 26 July 2016 23: 44
                        -3
                        Quote: Outsider V.
                        As for your vocabulary - a term. probably has a right to exist, but it is very exotic (at least rarely used). Try Google something serious about him. Most often, one comes across ridicule about "wordists" and "phrasemakers". I have not met the faculties of "vocabulary".


                        Well, Duc, everything we have is naturally in an imported package, a philologist, a linguist, but if you just say something in Russian, then ridicule begins, and I even know whose they are. In academic science "studying" the Russian language there are a lot of Russians. Why do they try to study a language that is not their native language? So it is this category that has the property of making fun of everything that is not invented by them.
                        I look at you, too, disgusted, repulsive treatment in Russian, but we will survive it ...
                      4. Outsider V.
                        Outsider V. 27 July 2016 10: 42
                        -1
                        I look at you, too, disgusted, repulsive treatment in Russian, but we will survive it ...


                        Do not attribute to me all sorts of nonsense.

                        in Russian

                        Correctly written - in Russian, not "in Russian". Learn, damn it, your native language, you are our restless word-master!
                      5. Pavel1
                        Pavel1 27 July 2016 10: 52
                        -1
                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        It is spelled correctly - in Russian, not "in Russian". Learn, damn it, your native language, you are our restless word-master!


                        ignoramus, in all chronicles, in the Dahl dictionary, even if you open the Muravyov’s constitution in question here, EVERYWHERE is written RUSSIAN with one C. Double C is in the rules of the German language, and in Russian for no reason the consonants do not double, therefore with two C it reverse tracing from German. Apparently RUSSIAN with two C appeared in the Bolshevik era, but they were mostly Jews ...
                      6. Outsider V.
                        Outsider V. 27 July 2016 13: 06
                        0
                        Ah, here you are. It is you who intentionally distort the language.

                        That Dahl thought so is known. But the statement that "it is written like this everywhere" is not true.

                        Origin, old adjective forms Russian (Russian) and examples you can see, for example, here - https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8C%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%8A

                        Example:
                        Or the Russians will give their goods in the long run in Riesa or on the Gotsky coast (ze) to Nemchichyu, and the last will be dark, and the Russian land should be taken in advance. Or the Germans will have to give Smolensk their creatures Rusina, but they will have to have them, Nemechsky will have 133 advance. “Draft agreement of Smolensk with the Germans”, 1239

                        There are also options with one with (litter).

                        That doubling с somehow connected with German influence - stupidity. In the word Russian to the root Russian suffix is ​​added skleading to doubling с. Compare: childish, French, ugly, sailor.

                        What does the Bolsheviks and the Jews have to do with it? So they wrote to them.

                        And you can see the ignoramus (at the same time and the ignorant) in the mirror if you look there. hi
                      7. Pavel1
                        Pavel1 27 July 2016 15: 05
                        0
                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        Ah, here you are. It is you who intentionally distort the language.


                        Yes, it's not me, but Russian sources ...

                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        That Dahl thought so is known. But the statement that "it is written like this everywhere" is not true.

                        Do you do taftalogy?

                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        The origin, old forms of the adjective Russian (Russian) and examples can be seen, for example, here - https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8C%D1%81 % D0% BA% D1% 8A

                        I give you examples from the Dahl dictionary, from the Tale of Bygone Years- RUSSIAN EARTH, from the Constitution and the Decembrist Muravyov, and you give me a wikipedia? You better bring such arguments at a meeting of the scientific team at the Institute of the Russian Language in the Russian language, they will understand you there.
                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        Example:
                        Or the Russians will give their goods in the long run in Riesa or on the Gotsky coast (ze) to Nemchichyu, and the last will be dark, and the Russian land should be taken in advance. Or the Germans will have to give Smolensk their creatures Rusina, but they will have to have them, Nemechsky will have 133 advance. “Draft agreement of Smolensk with the Germans”, 1239

                        Well, what kind of example is this, where is it from? You are not shaking the pedia here, but the Russian sources.

                      8. Pavel1
                        Pavel1 27 July 2016 15: 10
                        0
                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        That doubling with is somehow connected with German influence is stupidity. In the word Russian, the suffix ck is added to the root of rus, which leads to a doubling of c. Compare: childish, French, ugly, sailor.


                        the Russian language is dear to me, which is in the old chronicles, and not your far-fetched rules.
                        Your example, to put it mildly, is unsuccessful in the Russian language, it has nothing to do with its rules. Our ancestors wrote RUSSIAN, which means it’s right.
                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        What does the Bolsheviks and the Jews have to do with it? So they wrote to them.

                        what is not clear? put your mind in it, and you might understand, a hundred wrong.
                      9. Outsider V.
                        Outsider V. 27 July 2016 18: 47
                        0
                        The fact is that in the old chronicles there are many forms - with one "c" and with two: Russian, Russian, Russian, Russian, Russian, ...... See the attached page from the "Dictionary of the Russian language XI-XVI centuries." edited by Vinogradov.

                        Speaking of RUSSIAN land: there are also road of the earth - one "s", and Russian - with two.

                        More examples from Russian sources:

                        (DIRECTION AND PASSION AND PRAISE TO THE HOLY martyr Boris and Gleb): To the very self-preserving all of Russia in the land of Volodimir son of Svyatoslav, the grandson of Igor, the same and holy baptism, enlighten the whole earth of Rus.

                        Here's from the "Tale of Bygone Years" (note that different options are found in the same sentence):

                        Why are we ruining the Russian land themselves on this land? And the Polovtsy carry our land rosy, and for the sake of essence, Auger between us ratify. Yes, we’re not moving out, we have one heart, and we serve Ruski’s earth;

                        From a later one, I can attach photographs of pages from books of the mid-19th century (long before the appearance of the Bolsheviks, however, Jews already existed then :)), where only the double "C" is used.

                        So the ancestors wrote differently. The modern version with doubling confidently won somewhere in the 19th century, and probably because it is more logical from a morphological point of view (root + suffix).

                        Threat. The role of the Jews (the involvement of the Bolsheviks is obvious) in this crime has remained incomprehensible to me.
                      10. Pavel1
                        Pavel1 27 July 2016 19: 22
                        0
                        Quote: By outsiders V.
                        The fact is that in the old chronicles there are many forms - both with one "s" and with two: russkiyi, ruskiy, ruskiyi, ruskiyi, ruskiy, .... See the attached page from the "Dictionary of the Russian language XI-XVI centuries . " edited by Vinogradov.

                        By the way, about the ROW land: there are also the Rouskeys of the land - with one "s", and the Rouskeys - with two.

                        More examples from Russian sources:

                        (DIRECTION AND PASSION AND PRAISED TO THE HOLY martyr BORIS AND GLEB): To the very self-preserving of all the Rus of Russia Volodymyr son of Svyatoslav, the same son of Igorev, the same and holy shrine to enlighten this whole land of Russia.


                        so please post scans of chronicles or links to them, because in this form arguments are not accepted.
                        Here, please, the first page of the PVL is mentioned precisely in RUSSIAN LAND.
                        http://chronologia.org/rare/radzivil/im/IMG_0988.jpg
                      11. Pavel1
                        Pavel1 27 July 2016 19: 26
                        0
                        Quote: Outsider V.
                        The fact is that in the old chronicles there are many forms - with one "c" and with two: Russian, Russian, Russian, Russian, Russian, ...... See the attached page from the "Dictionary of the Russian language XI-XVI centuries." edited by Vinogradov.

                        Speaking of RUSSIAN land: there are also road of the earth - one "s", and Russian - with two.

                        More examples from Russian sources:

                        (DIRECTION AND PASSION AND PRAISE TO THE HOLY martyr Boris and Gleb): To the very self-preserving all of Russia in the land of Volodimir son of Svyatoslav, the grandson of Igor, the same and holy baptism, enlighten the whole earth of Rus.

                        Here's from the "Tale of Bygone Years" (note that different options are found in the same sentence):

                        Why are we ruining the Russian land themselves on this land? And the Polovtsy carry our land rosy, and for the sake of essence, Auger between us ratify. Yes, we’re not moving out, we have one heart, and we serve Ruski’s earth;

                        From a later one, I can attach photographs of pages from books of the mid-19th century (long before the appearance of the Bolsheviks, however, Jews already existed then :)), where only the double "C" is used.

                        So the ancestors wrote differently. The modern version with doubling confidently won somewhere in the 19th century, and probably because it is more logical from a morphological point of view (root + suffix).

                        Threat. The role of the Jews (the involvement of the Bolsheviks is obvious) in this crime has remained incomprehensible to me.


                        What's that book? time edition?
                      12. Outsider V.
                        Outsider V. 27 July 2016 22: 11
                        0
                        so please post scans of chronicles or links to them, because in this form arguments are not accepted.


                        Well, thanks for your scan, but I know these lines at the beginning. If you want counterarguments in the form of primary sources - you are so good. Attached is a page from the Laurentian Chronicle, sheet 75, A lesson from Vladimir Monomakh. Image taken from here: http://expositions.nlr.ru/LaurentianCodex/_Project/page_Show.php?list=156&n=205.


                        If there is a problem with finding a page in the annals, start with the page http://expositions.nlr.ru/LaurentianCodex/_Project/page_Content.php?pageSel=7, and follow the link in the line
                        l 75 vol., Stb. 1 - 76, stb. 2 6603 (1095). Campaign of Vladimir Monomakh against Polovtsy


                        The second row in the left column clearly shows the phrase
                        to the Russian land
                        .

                        In the same chronicle on sheet 95 in the right column, I came across this phrase: After fleeing his goods, the hedgehog took the Russian war in the month of August on 12 den

                        Quote from "The Tale of Bygone Years"
                        Why are we ruining the Russian land themselves on this land?
                        taken from the book by DS Likhachev "National identity of Ancient Russia: essays from the field of Russian literature XI-XVII centuries. Moscow; Leningrad Academy of Sciences of the USSR: 1945". In electronic form it can be found, for example, here:
                        http://statehistory.ru/books/Natsionalnoe-samosoznanie-Drevney-Rusi/4
                      13. Pavel1
                        Pavel1 27 July 2016 23: 20
                        0
                        Well, say Russian.
                        As for this suffix, it generally seems that this rule is watery, despite the fact that the annals.
                        I prefer RUSSIAN to speak with one C, as Dahl and Muravyov said, by the way, to speak RUSSIAN with one C is easier, there is no unnecessary tension.
                        Good luck...
                      14. Outsider V.
                        Outsider V. 28 July 2016 09: 46
                        0
                        Have a nice one you too :)
                    2. Pavel1
                      Pavel1 28 July 2016 12: 35
                      0
                      Quote: By outsiders V.
                      Quote from "The Tale of Bygone Years"
                      Why are we ruining the Russian land themselves on this land?
                      taken from the book by DS Likhachev "National identity of Ancient Russia: essays from the field of Russian literature XI-XVII centuries. Moscow; Leningrad Academy of Sciences of the USSR: 1945". In electronic form it can be found, for example, here:
                      //statehistory.ru/books/Natsionalnoe-samosoznanie-Drevney-Rusi/4


                      so decided to check you, so what? Is this the Radzivilov Chronicle? 95l? No, because the RL 95list is
                      http://chronologia.org/rare/radzivil/im/IMG_1176.jpg
                      and here
                      http://chronologia.org/rare/radzivil/im/IMG_1175.jpg
                      what is this chronicle?
                      and also by your link
                      //statehistory.ru/books/Natsionalnoe-samosoznanie-Drevney-Rusi/4
                      I’m switching to the wrong link that you showed ...

                    3. Outsider V.
                      Outsider V. 28 July 2016 13: 02
                      0
                      No, this is the same Lavrenievsky list, 6615 (1107) The death of the wife of Vladimir Monomakh, the invasion of the Polovtsy and the victory of the Russian princes.

                      It starts with this:

                      In the summer of 6615, the indicator circle of the moon is 4 summer, and the solar circle of 8
                      summer. In the same summer, Volodimeryaya died, the month of May, 7 days.
                      .

                      Attached a photo, a search string
                      After fleeing his goods, the hedgehog took the Russian war in the month of August on 12 den
                      - the fifth from the top in the right column.
                    4. Pavel1
                      Pavel1 28 July 2016 16: 15
                      0
                      the answer is, the Lavrentievsky Chronicle describes the times of the Tatar-Mongol League, but this very yoke has recently been subjected to comprehensive and well-founded criticism. You should have gone to fuel a few years earlier, there were wars over this yoke, and I must say that the defenders of TI didn’t get too sick. Almost all episodes of the invasion of Russia were untrue. They subjected TMI to justified criticism not only on fuel, but also on other authors and sources, and even the Ministry of Education ordered schools and universities not to use TMI as an external conquest, but to consider it as an internal war.
                      In addition, based on the analysis of the NOVGOROD BERYASTENNYE LITERATURE, it is surprising to say that the city of KIEV - "the mother of Russian cities" in which there are already more than 1000 pieces of birch bark, is not used. How can this be, there are other cities, but the most important "Kiev" is not?
                      So the Lavrentievsky list with its internal tragedy, history, history of research is outdated. That is why the link to your source is incorrect again. The truth climbs like an awl from a bag and it will not be possible to hide it behind fakes.
                    5. Outsider V.
                      Outsider V. 28 July 2016 22: 12
                      0
                      the answer is, the Lavrentievsky Chronicle describes the times of the Tatar-Mongol League, but this very yoke has recently been subjected to comprehensive and well-founded criticism.
                      <...>
                      So the Lavrentievsky list with its internal tragedy, history, history of research is outdated.


                      Well no, such a child’s answer is not accepted.

                      A historical document, a monument (even one that distorts the facts) cannot become OUTDATE. Here you can argue a lot about TI, etc., but for our discussion (one or two "S") the following fact is important: even if later distortions are introduced into the manuscript (and how without them!), It still reflects the peculiarities of the writing of the discussed us the words "RUSSIAN / RUSSIAN" in the IX - XIV centuries.

                      And to doubt the authenticity of the Lvrentievsky list is Fomenko (however, that EMNIP challenged the authenticity of the Radzivilovsky list).

                      In turn, the Radziwill List (RS) is accused of "systematically adding the name of Vsevolod to the name of his older brother Mikhalka" in comparison with the earlier and more accurate text of the Laurentian List (Shakhmatov, Priselkov). But that doesn't make the PC obsolete or fake.

                      In addition, keep a page from the Synodal List of the Novgorod First Chronicle of the older edition. "Pay attention to the line beginning with" In summer 6611 "- Russian land.

                      In PSRL (1841), this fragment corresponds to v. 3, p. 3.

                      I hope you will not argue that the Bolsheviks and Jews distorted the Synodal List of the Novgorod Chronicle?
                    6. Pavel1
                      Pavel1 29 July 2016 08: 06
                      -1
                      Quote: By outsiders V.
                      A historical document, a monument (even distorting facts) cannot be out of date.


                      Tatar-Mongol igo is a historical lie under which lists are written that supposedly were once chronicles. What’s so childish? We exclude the Lavrentievsky annals-list from the list of arguments.
                      Quote: By outsiders V.
                      And to doubt the authenticity of the Lvrentievsky list is Fomenko (however, that EMNIP challenged the authenticity of the Radzivilovsky list).


                      the study of the Radzivilov Chronicle of the RL by Fomenko and Nosovsky speaks of an UNIQUE forgery of the two main pages, the calling of the Varangians to Russia and the temporary linking of the chronicle to the modern reckoning and this is clumsy and rude. I myself read and dealt with the radar and I can say that this is so.
                      Quote: By outsiders V.
                      In addition, keep a page from the Synodal List of the Novgorod First Chronicle of the older edition. "Pay attention to the line beginning with" In summer 6611 "- Russian land.

                      I am not familiar with this annals, so I will understand.
                      But you will not deny the fact that in the RL in the word RUSSIAN one S.
                    7. Outsider V.
                      Outsider V. 29 July 2016 09: 42
                      0
                      The statement that TI is a lie, I will leave aside from our discussion, because I do not trust the subversors. I do not intend to discuss this topic.

                      ... under which lists are written that supposedly were once chronicles.



                      Who wrote these supposedly false lists? In what century? What examination (except for disputes on topvar and amateur articles on the Internet) did this confirm?

                      But you will not deny the fact that in the RL in the word RUSSIAN one S.


                      No, I will not. I didn’t deny that the “C” option was very common.
            3. Outsider V.
              Outsider V. 28 July 2016 15: 33
              0
              in addition to your link
              //statehistory.ru/books/Natsionalnoe-samosoznanie-Drevney-Rusi/4
              I’m switching to the wrong link that you showed ...


              Rechecked, everything seemed to be correct (I’ll highlight sslki for convenience as quotes): the start page of Likhachev’s book -
              http://statehistory.ru/books/Natsionalnoe-samosoznanie-Drevney-Rusi/
              ,
              and the phrase under discussion - in section "III. The idea of ​​the unity of Russia during the reign of Vladimir Monomakh" -
              http://statehistory.ru/books/Natsionalnoe-samosoznanie-Drevney-Rusi/4
  • Svidetel 45
    Svidetel 45 27 July 2016 00: 36
    +2
    Under becoming knowledge and manner of conduct and debate, full compliance.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 25 July 2016 16: 55
    +4
    I agree with you. But still, beyond the Ural Range up to the Pacific Ocean, Slavs also live. The Russian population of Siberia and the Far East is many times greater than the total number of Yakuts, Buryats, Altaians, Khakasses, Tuvans and the mass of small nations.
  • KaPToC
    KaPToC 25 July 2016 17: 36
    -1
    The Slavs lived in America, in Manchuria, in Germany, in Scandinavia, in Iceland, to hell. The accession of the Romanovs is the biggest disaster in the history of the Russian state.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Parsec
    Parsec 25 July 2016 13: 03
    +8
    Quote: Paul1
    generally compare the nobles the whole purpose in whose life was SERVING THE FATHERLAND


    From Peter it was said "And serve a nobleman for life."
    In support of this, support was given - people and lands, because once a serving nobleman was looking for oats and grazing, he would either go to Gilyan, or to the Prut, or to Azov, or even from Narva to Poltava on foot.

    Peter the Third issued a decree on the liberty of the nobility and limited his service to twelve years.
    And Catherine announced "A nobleman is free to serve or not to serve," while the nobles did not pay taxes and the title of nobility was considered as an inalienable, hereditary and hereditary quality that extended to all members of the nobleman's family.

    A breed sign, like a dog.

    And then the "tragedy of extra people" with the transition to "The Cherry Orchard" ...

    No need to idealize.
  • Svidetel 45
    Svidetel 45 27 July 2016 00: 32
    +1
    Quote: Paul1
    In general, to compare the nobles the whole purpose in whose life was SERVING THE FATHERLAND with our present

    Complete nonsense, the bulk of the nobles since the time of Catherine more and more took off from the civil service, yes, there were worthy among them who devoted themselves to serving the state, however, if without any blah blah, but simply turns to statistics, then you can make sure that a significant part of them was neither in the military nor in the civil service, but lived at the expense of their estates, simply speaking, led a parasitic lifestyle.
  • Zulu_S
    Zulu_S 25 July 2016 15: 09
    0
    Are you measuring them (the Decembrists) against yourself? Like, everyone needs power in order to "hack Russia"? Should we understand you in such a way that if YOU had come to power, you would have jerked too?
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. AK64
      AK64 25 July 2016 15: 51
      -1
      Are you measuring them (the Decembrists) against yourself? Like, everyone needs power in order to "hack Russia"? Should we understand you in such a way that if YOU had come to power, you would have jerked too?


      Nobody was going to give them power.
      The passivity of the leader of the uprising Trubetskova has the simplest explanation: he received an order - but he did not want to fulfill it strongly.
  • Rastas
    Rastas 25 July 2016 20: 53
    0
    Only then did Ryleyev, Pestel, Bestuzhev and the rest understand what they were going for and what awaited them. Even in exile, none of them drank, did not degrade, as a person. How can we compare them with Stankevich and Nadezhdin, who are fluttering on television and well warmed by power, which they are not essentially opposed to?
  • jktu66
    jktu66 25 July 2016 17: 14
    +3
    I see no reason to assess the "Dekbrists"
    Over the years, Alexander Pavlovich could not decide what to do with the secret troublemakers in his own country, and it is even worse for us to attribute Western bias to such patriots as Russians such as Kuchelbecker, who rushed into the fray to call him unchaste. It is not for us to judge these people.
  • nadezhiva
    nadezhiva 25 July 2016 17: 23
    +1
    Quote: Lindon
    I see no reason to assess the "Decembrists". These are not hungry, illiterate tramps from workers and peasants.
    This is the cream of high society thinking about the homeland, and went to the chopping block for freedom.
    Give up. This is a conspiracy against the king in favor of Europe. The cream of society from the Masonic community, I apologize for the pun.
    To be honest, I'm sorry for them. These were decent people who were very, but sincerely mistaken. Lack of information, you know.
    Actually, something else interested me. And illiterate tramps from workers and peasants, who did this mean?
  • Iline
    Iline 25 July 2016 07: 09
    +18
    The author of the article exaggerated a little about the uprising about bloody Nicholas I. The uprising was still being prepared against Alexander I, during which Russia defeated Napoleon and washed the hooves of its horses in the Seine. But his sudden death in Taganrog slightly confused their plans. The uprising itself took place on the second day after the proclamation of Nikolai Pavlovich as emperor, and it was proclaimed after written confirmation of his brother Konstantin Pavlovich's abdication from the throne (Alexander was childless). And when, in that case, did Nikolai manage to become "bloody"?
    Everything else is more or less correct. All the same belief in their exclusivity out of the blue, the same disregard for the country under the guise of worries about the people, all the same drawing in public. In the ranks of the Decembrists there was no unity even among themselves. At the first smell of a thunderstorm, their "dictator" faded into the bushes and several thousand intoxicated soldiers stood stupidly in a square in front of the monument to Peter I without any command.
    As in the song: "to the ground and then ...."
    1. Altona
      Altona 25 July 2016 11: 47
      +2
      Quote: Iline
      At the first smell of a thunderstorm, their "dictator" faded into the bushes and several thousand intoxicated soldiers stood stupidly in a square in front of the monument to Peter I without any command.

      ---------------------
      Direct associations - Marmaris, Erdogan, the rebellion of the military in Turkey on July 15, 2016.
  • Leto
    Leto 25 July 2016 07: 12
    +4
    Therefore, Nikolai Pavlovich and shed mud in every way and can not forgive the suppression of the revolt of the "Decembrists". After all, he was able to stop the first major attempt at "perestroika" of Russia, which led to confusion and civil confrontation, to the delight of our Western "partners".

    And how did he stop? Did the author forget history lessons at school? For RI, tightening the nuts of the boiling boiler ended in a terrible explosion and the subsequent terrible massacre ... well, RI itself rested in a Bose.
    It is clear that the Decembrists were terribly naive and had no chance, but this was the first signal to the authorities that this was only the beginning and if nothing was changed, it would be worse. And so it happened.
    1. Gvas1174
      Gvas1174 25 July 2016 07: 25
      +13
      I remember the history that we were taught during the Soviet era, alas, it was far from real history. I agree with the author, and the emotional connotation of the article is quite forgivable. "Westerners" at all times are for the most part mu ... aki rare.
      Praying for Western fake ideals, it would be worth remembering about their equally sound traditions and foundations.
      The author is unambiguously -respect for the revised article, I read his early material on this topic a month ago, in the "archive"
      1. Leto
        Leto 25 July 2016 08: 00
        -6
        Quote: Gvas1174
        Praying for Western fake ideals

        Equality and justice are fake ideals?
        Quote: Gvas1174
        it would be worth remembering about their equally sound traditions and foundations

        "Power from God", "you are the boss I am", this is what you should adhere to. Some kind of masochism.

        Remind me what ended the reign of Nikolai Palkin?
        1. Beefeater
          Beefeater 25 July 2016 08: 33
          +7
          When did these revolutions, let alone conspiracies, lead to equality and justice? Do not remember that.
          1. Leto
            Leto 25 July 2016 10: 11
            +2
            Quote: Beefeater
            When did these revolutions, let alone conspiracies, lead to equality and justice? Do not remember that.

            Duc does not need to be brought to a state where the people have the only argument in relation to the authorities with only an ax and a stick. Won in South Korea, without revolution, they threw off Jung Doo-hwan and then Ro Dae-woo and live happily professing democratic ideals.
          2. Pavel1
            Pavel1 25 July 2016 10: 49
            +5
            Quote: Beefeater
            When did these revolutions, let alone conspiracies, lead to equality and justice? Do not remember that.


            you like that forever past the checkout. Have you heard anything about the great French revolution? It was she who proclaimed this very "equality", which the Bolsheviks raised on the flag in 17g. And as for France itself, the caste / estate of society was destroyed in favor of the emerging capitalism, which led France to? Correctly to the complete mixing of races and peoples, as well as to the degradation of morals.
          3. murriou
            murriou 25 July 2016 11: 54
            +1
            Quote: Beefeater
            When did these revolutions, let alone conspiracies, lead to equality and justice?

            Google the cryptic words "egalite, fraternite, liberte" wink
            1. Oleg Monarchist
              Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 12: 32
              +4
              These "egalite, fraternite, liberte" of yours ended with the accession of the bloody dictator Napoleon, a campaign against Russia by the barbarian Euroord, millions of victims, and ultimately "bloodthirsty Russian tsarism" crushed this Euro-revolutionary rot.
        2. Dart2027
          Dart2027 25 July 2016 21: 23
          +2
          Quote: Leto
          Remind me what ended the reign of Nikolai Palkin?

          According to the plans of Lord Palmelston:
          “Åland and Finland are returning to Sweden; Baltic region departs to Prussia; the Kingdom of Poland should be restored as a barrier between Russia and Germany (not Prussia, but Germany); Moldova and Wallachia and the entire mouth of the Danube depart to Austria, and Lombardy and Venice from Austria to the Sardinian kingdom (Piedmont); Crimea and the Caucasus are taken from Russia and withdrawn to Turkey, and part of the Caucasus, called Palmerston "Circassia", forms a separate state, in vassal relations with the Sultan of Turkey. "
          As a result, the whole of Europe (and if they did not fight directly with RI, then all the strongest countries of Europe threatened the borders) with difficulty captured half of Sevastopol, from which they had to leave.
          Quote: Leto
          Equality and justice are fake ideals?

          The ideal, the ideal is that it is unattainable. There will always be those who are "more equal than others", it is unfair, but such is life. There is no equality and justice for all anywhere.
          1. Rastas
            Rastas 25 July 2016 21: 34
            -1
            Following the results of the Crimean war, Russia refused the Black Sea Fleet, Wallachia, and Kars. It was a bit much. An indirect result was the empty budget, plundered money for the war and the subsequent sale of Alaska, for the development of which we had money. Well, why do you rewrite history, contemporaries admitted defeat, admitted that there were no further resources for waging war. It was a worthy defeat, not a crushing defeat, as it should have been according to Palmerston’s plan. But about the unattainability of ideals, then here you show, excuse me, narrow-mindedness. Everyone strives to make life better for himself and other people, so he needs ideals. For their sake feats are accomplished. But if you are a tradesman whose life's purpose is to eat, cf. then, ideals are useless. And the end of the story is not necessary. Once class division was normal, it just floated, although today in Russia someone very much wants to recreate it.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 25 July 2016 22: 59
              +2
              Quote: Rastas
              contemporaries recognized defeat, recognized that there were no further resources for war. It was a worthy defeat, not a crushing defeat
              Did I say there was a victory? Defeat, but it was worthy and "on points", and not at all that tub of slops, which was usually poured on the head of Nicholas I.
              Quote: Rastas
              But about the unattainability of ideals, then here you show, excuse me, narrow-mindedness. Everyone strives to make life better for himself and other people, so he needs ideals. For their sake feats are accomplished.
              Just for every Meresyev there is his own Vlasov. I’m not saying that you don’t have to strive for ideals, but you need to take a sober view of life and remember that people can be different, but humanity as a whole changes little.
              Quote: Rastas
              estate division was once normal, it just floated, although today in Russia someone really wants to recreate it
              Did it float? Even in the USSR, not everyone was equal to each other, and if there is no formal division, this does not mean that it does not actually exist.
              1. Rastas
                Rastas 25 July 2016 23: 44
                +1
                And I wrote that it would not work out right away to achieve what is contained in the slogans. This must be understood by every adult thinking person. We need social elevators and social justice in laws expressing the interests of the majority. In this regard, the USSR was a big step forward compared with RI. But now the rollback has begun.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 26 July 2016 06: 18
                  +2
                  Quote: Rastas
                  And I wrote that it’s impossible to immediately achieve the desired, which is contained in the slogans.

                  There is such a science as biology. And from her point of view, people throughout the history we know have not changed.
            2. KaPToC
              KaPToC 26 July 2016 22: 19
              0
              Quote: Rastas
              Following the results of the Crimean war, Russia refused the Black Sea Fleet, Wallachia, and Kars.

              Wallachia and Kars did not belong to Russia and cannot be considered a loss.
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 25 July 2016 09: 08
      +2
      but it was the first signal for power
      How many such "signals" were there before? The guards threw off Paul, the guards brought the German woman Frederica Zerbstkaya to the throne, all the coups were successful, so the guards and those whom they brought to the throne were praised, and those whom they threw off were made fools.
      1. Leto
        Leto 25 July 2016 10: 12
        +3
        Quote: Gardamir
        How many such "signals" were there before? The guards threw off Paul, the guards brought the German woman Frederica Zerbstkaya to the throne, all the coups were successful, so the guards and those whom they brought to the throne were praised, and those whom they threw off were made fools.

        You confuse the change of emperor with a change in the system of government, a few different things.
      2. V.ic
        V.ic 25 July 2016 10: 44
        +2
        Quote: Gardamir
        German Frederic Zerbstkoy,

        Actually Sofia Augustus Frederick von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg. From the lands of the Luzhitsky Serbs, and even my father seemed to be Russian:
        "" The German princess came from Russian blood. Her father, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst, was commandant in Stettin and lived with his wife in discord. She spent most of her time abroad, in fun and entertainment of all kinds. During her stay in Paris, in 1728, a young man who was at the Prussian embassy, ​​Ivan Ivanovich Betskoy, the son of Prince Trubetskoy, a prisoner in Sweden, was beautiful, intelligent, educated, became known to her. to her husband in Stettin and there on April 21, 1729 she was relieved of the burden by Princess Sophia-Augusta, in holy baptism Ekaterina Alekseevna. Betsky's connection with Princess Anhalt-Zerbst was known to everyone. "
        http://n-bitva.narod.ru/prilojenie/nauka/istoria/obuhov_a_podlinnyiOtec.htm
        Read, you will not regret.
    3. Parsec
      Parsec 25 July 2016 13: 07
      +6
      Quote: Leto
      For RI, tightening the nuts of the boiling boiler ended in a terrible explosion and the subsequent terrible massacre ... well, RI itself rested in a Bose.


      Ninety-two years passed from Nikolai Pavlovich to "rested in the Bose". Century! Somehow you had a painfully slow fire to boil.

      And it wasn’t an explosion, the stokers in gold embroidery dismantled the installation quietly.

      You capture space and time.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 25 July 2016 07: 19
    +2
    part of the noble youth simply did not know what they were doing... "Onizhedeti" ... The Decembrists did not like ... because of the mediocrity of the coup .. What can you expect from them if they were in power .. About the reign of Nicholas I .. I always wondered .. if serfdom had not been abolished in 1861, but at least 1827? .. How did history develop? You wouldn't have sold California ... Alaska ... The settlement of the Far East went faster ... There would have been no loss in the Russian-Japanese war of 1904-1905, etc.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 25 July 2016 17: 33
      +2
      The abolition of serfdom has already matured (and was relevant)
      during the reign of Alexander the 1st. He was thinking about it,
      but did not dare, unfortunately.
      In those countries where Napoleon abolished feudalism, monastic
      land ownership, introduced a tax on feudal lords for land ownership, economic
      development went much faster. The industrial revolutions began,
      which are much preferable to bloody social.
      If Russia - roughly - caught up with Europe in economic and social reforms in the early to mid-19th century,
      perhaps we could have avoided the destructive revolutions of the early 20th century.
  • lablizn
    lablizn 25 July 2016 07: 36
    +9
    The "Great French Revolution", which took place under the slogan "Liberty, Equality, Brotherhood," was, as you know, not liberating for the people, but the essence of the struggle of the bourgeoisie against the tribal aristocracy for power.
    This slogan is still used as a cover for all who seek to obtain benefits for themselves, but not for the common people. The slogan itself is good, but, unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the goals of the "Western democracies", which are increasingly turning into supranational financial and oligarchic structures seeking to subjugate all sovereign states. Russia was, is and will be a "bone in the throat" for these structures.
    The end to the deadly confrontation is not yet visible.
    1. murriou
      murriou 25 July 2016 11: 57
      +2
      Quote: lablizn
      the essence of the struggle of the bourgeoisie against the clan aristocracy for power.

      Right. And the result? Social elevators opened and a rapid industrial expansion began, Napoleon prettyly swelled up all of old Europe, France for a long time became a model for much of the world.
      1. Oleg Monarchist
        Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 12: 48
        +3
        Quote: murriou

        Right. And the result? Social elevators opened and a rapid industrial expansion began, Napoleon prettyly swelled up all of old Europe, France for a long time became a model for much of the world.


        Result? The result of these "social lifts", that once a century, barbarians gather in European reichs and go to wake up the "bear", rake them in full and calm down for a while, well ... a little later they yank towards Russia.
        1. Oleg Monarchist
          Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 14: 34
          +1
          I would like to know the opinion of the "minus". Are you gentlemen for the European Reich? laughing
    2. Rastas
      Rastas 25 July 2016 21: 41
      0
      The bourgeoisie is still a step forward compared with the clan aristocracy. Then you somehow primitivize history, or do you really think that from the estate system you can go directly to a completely classless society. This is a very long way. At least I advise you to master the 6-volume work of J. Jaurès on the French Revolution, there are answers to many questions.
  • inkass_98
    inkass_98 25 July 2016 07: 37
    +7
    I have no words, some drool laughing , how many times did Samsonov promise to read and comment.
    In the official historiography of RI, Nicholas has always been a pillar of statehood; it was precisely the circles of the intelligentsia and the "enlightened" nobles who watered him with "mud". analogue of the current kreaklov and liberasts. In Soviet times, any autocrat (with the rarest exception in the form of Peter I and Catherine II, but even then with reservations) was by definition a bloody tyrant and oppressor of the oppressed. Whose opinion is the author of this article referring to?
    Well, about the "onizhedey" - only the soldiers who were taken to Senate Square were not in the know. Some were taken out without explaining that the tsar would be overthrown, others without telling that they would shoot at exactly the same servants. All the rest, that is, the top of the conspiracy and the suppressors of the rebellion, knew perfectly well what they were going to do. It's just that some succeeded, while others did not.
    1. netslave
      netslave 25 July 2016 08: 57
      +3
      I propose that the name of the author be included in the title of the article. laughing
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Pitot
    Pitot 25 July 2016 07: 45
    +1
    In general, you cannot stand on ceremony with such personnel. The head of a poisonous reptile must be cut off both for prevention and for edification. How is it - "..... wet in the toilet" at least ....
  • kit_bellew
    kit_bellew 25 July 2016 07: 52
    +5
    Interestingly, and why are all domestic liberals such fine-minded d.i.i.l.y? "We want it to be like in Europe." Do you know how in Europe in fact? Tellingly, even then, as now, the so-called. "creative intelligentsia", that is, people who can only scribble verses, paint caricatures and sing stupid hymns and, as a result, are unable to survive, say, in the taiga for more than three hours. Truly, most of all, the one who is incapable of daily life shouts about the good for all.
    1. Leto
      Leto 25 July 2016 08: 05
      0
      Quote: kit_bellew
      that is, people who can only sprinkle verses, make caricatures and sing unreasonable hymns and, as a result, are unable to survive, say, in the taiga for more than three hours. Verily, the one who is incapable of using himself shouts most of all about the good for all.

      Oh how, and Sechin means in the taiga easily 3 hours and 10 minutes? Or is there Medvedev?
      1. bk316
        bk316 25 July 2016 21: 03
        +3
        Quote: Leto
        Oh how, and Sechin means in the taiga easily 3 hours and 10 minutes?

        But Sechin served urgent in Angola, so yes easily, if anyone understands.
        1. Parsec
          Parsec 25 July 2016 21: 12
          +1
          Quote: bk316
          But Sechin served urgent in Angola, so yes easily, if anyone understands.


          He served as a translator at the headquarters of the Navy, so there was no way with the taiga, selva, tundra, pump and savannah.
  • drop
    drop 25 July 2016 08: 00
    +6
    Published the story "The Forgotten Governor-General" is about M.A. Miloradovich. While preparing the material, he got acquainted with the protocols of the interrogation of the Decembrists. M.A. Miloradovich and the Moscow Governor-General knew the Decembrists. They thought that these people would come to their senses, because many of them fought against Napoleon. But it turned out differently.
    After the publication of my story, a monument to M.A. was opened in St. Petersburg Miloradovich. There is a monument to the savior of Russia in the city (he concluded a truce with Murat for a day and gave Kutuzov a withdrawal of troops from Borodino on 20 versts). And the French lost the Russian army, which after 10 days was ready for battle with Napoleon. And his killer-Kakhovsky (named lane on Vasilevsky Island). I have the honor.
  • qwert
    qwert 25 July 2016 08: 18
    +4
    According to the plans, the Decembrists generally wanted to establish complete supervision of the country's population. Total control and repressive organs. Those. The 37 year would be flowers in comparison with what the noble Decembrists planned.
    1. Leto
      Leto 25 July 2016 08: 40
      +1
      Quote: qwert
      According to the plans, the Decembrists generally wanted to establish complete supervision of the country's population.

      Dictatorship, they aspired to this. They thought because they are very smart, then they will do much better.
      Quote: qwert
      Those. The 37th year would be flowers in comparison with what the noble Decembrists planned.

      Nothing would have worked out for them, that’s not the point. This was the first call that Nikolai 1, and his entourage passed by because of their stubbornness and inability to analyze the situation.
    2. Donhapa
      Donhapa 25 July 2016 08: 50
      +3
      Quote: qwert
      According to the plans, the Decembrists generally wanted to establish complete supervision of the country's population. Total control and repressive organs. Those. The 37 year would be flowers in comparison with what the noble Decembrists planned.

      These, noble Decembrists, such as Trotsky, who are still full, are ready to pour blood of the Russian people in rivers
      1. Leto
        Leto 25 July 2016 10: 19
        +4
        Quote: Donhapa
        These, noble Decembrists, such as Trotsky, who are still full, are ready to pour blood of the Russian people in rivers

        There will always be crooks who use the accumulated contradictions in society as their chance to climb the throne, so that they do not have such a chance to resolve these contradictions enough. Any "eccentric" who decides to usurp power takes responsibility for everything that happens in the country, even if he doesn't want it, the people will ask him.
    3. AK64
      AK64 25 July 2016 10: 41
      +1
      According to the plans, the Decembrists generally wanted to establish complete supervision of the country's population. Total control and repressive organs. Those. The 37 year would be flowers in comparison with what the noble Decembrists planned.


      This sort of plans were unique for Pestel (a person who was mentally not quite normal --- or even completely normal).

      They had plans - Konstantin. Only.
      And all the "riddles" and "incomprehensibility" are in this.
  • X Y Z
    X Y Z 25 July 2016 08: 44
    +3
    And the author’s view is quite close to me. In Soviet times, the program and the views of the Decembrists were rarely analyzed, unless it was a job for historians and professionals. For everyone else, there was enough assertion that the Decembrists had everything very damp and confused in their views, therefore they were pioneers, naive and imperfect revolutionaries. The nobles wanted to make everyone happy at once, but because of their immaturity and insolvency, they could not. It was not necessary to drip deeper and give out the whole wrong side, and it was not profitable. Everything fit into an even canvas, holistic and evidence-based. I am very glad that a whole series of articles has appeared that give a new look at Nicholas I, Arakcheev, Paul I and other historical figures, indiscriminately ascribing to them the most negative features and giving a more balanced look at their contribution to the history of our country.
  • netslave
    netslave 25 July 2016 08: 53
    +2
    "They planned the complete physical destruction of the Romanov dynasty, members of their families and up to distant relatives."
    Can I have a link, pzhlst?
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 25 July 2016 09: 04
    +6
    According to the plan of N. Muravyov, Russia was proposed to de facto divide the powers and the 13 regions into 2, creating a federation from them. ".

    Total 15 Powers. Oh how! -What a coincidence of-the Decembrists, it turns out, they read! yes But do not remind the author WHO spread Russia on 15 Power-Republics?
    In this case, the powers received the right to secession (self-determination).

    Remind the author of the decree owls authorities (one of the first): "2) The right of the peoples of Russia to free self-determination, up to the separation and formation of an independent state... "These are NOT the Februaryists.
    That is, the Decembrists planned to create The Provisional Government even before the “Februaryists”


    Yeah yeah third decree owls the author does not know the authorities? Let me remind you: To educate for governing the country, until the convening of the Constituent Assembly, TEMPORARY workers 'and peasants' government.

    So it was not the Februaryists, namely the Communists, who turned out to be the true followers of the Decembrists.
    They destroyed the Russian statehood and the Russian world, having thrown out even the name of the state Russia (became the USSR), cutting its remainder (RSFSR) to the size of the kingdom of the first Romanov.
    In the rest of the Russian state, they created and raised never existed "republics" (Ukraine) and nations (Ukrainian), which eventually became hostile to Russia.

    Article plus for the correct condemnation of the Decembrists and minus for the shift in emphasis of the events of the 17 year.
    1. qwert
      qwert 25 July 2016 11: 32
      -2
      Quote: Aleksander
      But do not you remind the author WHO has spread Russia to the 15 powers of the republics?

      Yeltsin, Kuchma and another Belarusian.
      But Stalin was against the striping, but Lenin insisted on the allied division. But under the Communists, the country was united and united as never before in its history. And this must not be forgotten !!!
  • GEV67
    GEV67 25 July 2016 09: 20
    +2
    Pestel, in principle, the idea of ​​uniting the people and the abolition of serfdom was sound and correct. The destruction of the Romanov clan is also a good idea for the Decembrists, since it was the Romanovs who destroyed Russia. No matter how much the Bolsheviks would be poured mud, but they preserved Great Russia. But their descendants, the last komunyaki and shit_kraty all pro_shit.
  • raid14
    raid14 25 July 2016 09: 35
    +3
    With good intentions, the road to hell is paved.
    Maybe the rebels wanted to abolish serfdom, essentially slavery, to limit the monarchy, but they did not take into account the consequences of their actions for the country (unrest among the population, riots, etc.) and did not have a clear state government plan. See "Union of Welfare" https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decembrists
    You can give them their due that they did not flood St. Petersburg and stupidly awaited the abdication of Nicholas.
    The article casts a "shadow on the wattle" of the now Decembrists are determined in the 5th column of prepared Western officials for the collapse of the Russian Empire
  • Yarik
    Yarik 25 July 2016 09: 51
    +2
    For some reason, when I say "Decembrists", Sobolev with "Overhaul" appears in my head. Disorder, confusion and vacillation.
  • Basil50
    Basil50 25 July 2016 10: 01
    0
    Even today, * debunking * myths, the author repeated the slogans under which the Decembrists spoke. In fact, the reason for the speech was the arrogance of nobles dissatisfied with their role in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE. They considered themselves the pillar of the state and their fortunes were considerable, but the attitude of the tsar and the courtiers towards them as * ordinary * people was to them. It is the restrained pride that pushed into all sorts of * societies * and, ultimately, into rebellion.
    Very interesting is the personality of Trubetskoy, who spoke brightly and pathos at meetings, achieved appointment to dictators, but did not appear on the square, and then hid in a mansion from arrest.
  • Mihail55
    Mihail55 25 July 2016 10: 03
    +2
    Interesting article. From school I remember forever the words of the classic of the revolution in Russia - "they are too far from the people." Any revolt, coup, if it succeeds, carries BLOOD in itself! In those days, you can remember the Pugachev region. In modern times, all examples are on the face! The most recent is Ukraine. The ruler always faces an alternative - to let the "little" blood flow or to WAIT, it may resolve. Strong politicians solve the problem for the good of the country, weak politicians have only momentary success. Nicholas I did not allow discord in civil society, honor and glory to him for this!
    1. Leto
      Leto 25 July 2016 10: 23
      +3
      Quote: Michael55
      From school I remember forever the words of the classic of the revolution in Russia - "they are too far from the people."

      Classic joke from DLS:
      “Decembrists! “We are terribly far from the people ... and that's great!”
  • Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 25 July 2016 10: 31
    +2
    Well, if this gang-brethren would come together, would come to the residence of the king, and arrange for lynching there with renunciation and more ..... I would understand them.
    But, what the hell, they brought the drugs subordinate to them on the area? For what? Kill me the Bronze Horseman - I don’t understand a damn thing.
    What and how could soldiers do in the ranks? Moreover, they did not receive any commands.
    Therefore - this is not the Decembrists. These are amazing cranks, in the letter -M-. Or, the letter -Dol-.
    Knowing that the right to rebellion, butch, as there is, was directly assigned to the nobility - well, they would rebel on their own. They would then be forgiven. Would be appointed to the Accounting Chamber, to the Council under the President .... oh, damn it, this is from another time.
    Well, they wouldn’t have anything, practically.
    But the withdrawal of subordinates, in the ranks of the rebellion - this is a state crime. And a completely different alignment.
    ...
    What has changed since then?
    It's nothing.
    Swamp .... Manezhnaya .... Khreshchatyk .... eh.
    1. Zulu_S
      Zulu_S 25 July 2016 14: 30
      -1
      In all the palace coups took part privates. In the guard regiments, some of them were nobles. Private in the guard were both Suvorov and Potemkin.
      Quote: Bashibuzuk

      Bashibuzuk Today, 10: 31
      Well, if this gang-brethren would come together, would come to the residence of the king, and arrange for lynching there with renunciation and more ..... I would understand them.

      .... Nicholas - a snuffbox on the head, but a scarf ... Like his dad Paul, in general?
      1. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk 25 July 2016 21: 09
        0
        Yes Yes.
        Yes.
        Snuffbox and scarf.
        Like Paul the 3rd.
        As always it happened - the showdown of the "godfathers".
        ...
        And the rank and file in the guard ... Suvorov yes Potemkin .. not impressive.
        Suvorov, from the age of 9, was already a non-commissioner ... without serving until the age of 17 a year. Not a month.
        Potemkin ... well .... uuuuu .... this is a different kind of figure. From the bottom to rush into the fuck ... oh, the empress's favorites, it costs a lot.
        At 16, I myself shot AKM-47 .... and so did I become a super fighter from that, or what?
        ...
        Mts were not talking about soldiers, actually.
        The soldier is sorry.
        I, like be, were most of all fucked up because I don’t care about my sailors.
        And I would definitely give them a command - bring down, guys. After three hours of empty standing.
  • AK64
    AK64 25 July 2016 10: 38
    +6
    A freak man would fight myths.
    But at the same time, part of this myth continues to be planted. And instead of the other part, it imposes another myth.

    And the real? And the real is simple: a search keyword oath-oath 1825, or repeated oath of 1825. That is, it would be necessary to deal with these things.
    It’s also useful to remember exactly what the soldiers shouted in the square.
    And they shouted "For Constantine and the Constitution" (and the soldiers were sure that "Constitution" is the name of the wife of V.Kn. Konstantin Pavlovich)

    That is what explains everything. And the rest is fantastic
  • Normal ok
    Normal ok 25 July 2016 10: 47
    0
    From school, he developed an opinion about the Decembrists (he didn’t voiced essessically then)) - DB.
  • Lyubopyatov
    Lyubopyatov 25 July 2016 10: 53
    0
    Ryleyevs, pestels, Kakhovskiy Yakubovichs ... A gang of traitors, insignificants, mercenaries and ambitious people whose names stained the streets of Russian cities. At the same time, the streets of General Miloradovich, the hero of the war of 1812 and December 1825, are not in the cities of Russia.
  • rigoletto2001
    rigoletto2001 25 July 2016 10: 53
    +2
    The "Westernization virus" was brought to Russia by Peter ...
  • ism_ek
    ism_ek 25 July 2016 11: 34
    +1
    The article has nothing to do with history.
    At the same time, Nicholas is accused of inhumane treatment of the Decembrists. However, the ruler of the Russian Empire, Nikolai, who was recorded in the history of "Palkin", showed amazing mercy and philanthropy for the rebels.

    And in fact,
    N.K. Schilder. T. 1 // Emperor Nicholas the First. His life and reign. - St. Petersburg, 1903. - S. 516.
    After the cessation of artillery fire, Emperor Nikolai Pavlovich ordered Chief Police Chief General Shulgin to remove the corpses by morning. Unfortunately, the performers ordered the most inhumane way. On the night of the Neva, from the St. Isaac's Bridge to the Academy of Fine Arts and further to the side of Vasilyevsky Island, many ice holes were made into which not only the corpses were lowered, but, as claimed, many wounded, too, deprived of the opportunity to escape from the fate awaiting them. Those of the wounded who managed to escape, hid their injuries, afraid to open themselves to doctors, and died without medical assistance.
    1. Riv
      Riv 25 July 2016 15: 06
      +2
      There is a nuance: Schilder wrote all this, allegedly based on the papers of a certain official of the Third Division. But the Third Branch was created only a year after the uprising and could not organize this atrocity. And in the archives of the police there is no mention of this.
      And do you really believe that at that time corpses would have been treated without church rites?
      1. ism_ek
        ism_ek 25 July 2016 16: 48
        0
        Quote: Riv
        And do you really believe that at that time corpses would have been treated without church rites?

        Read the memories of the wars of those years. At that time, soldiers were not considered people.
        There is a nuance: Schilder wrote all this, allegedly based on the papers of a certain official of the Third Division.
        Schilder was born in 1842. Decembrists could not help communicating with the eyewitnesses of the uprising.
        1. Riv
          Riv 25 July 2016 17: 10
          0
          ... and the soldiers were also treated politically incorrectly. However, before being driven through the ranks, they led to the sacrament. It is difficult for a modern person to understand this, but then the salvation of the soul was then treated differently. And indeed, to matters of religion.
          Now you know why Rasputin was shoved after the murder under the ice?
          1. ism_ek
            ism_ek 26 July 2016 00: 35
            0
            Masons killed Rasputin. The soldier was not buried until the middle of the 19th century. Read the classics, 'War and Peace' for example. Of the 3000 who came to Senate Square, more than 1000 died. As for the drowned, it is believed that they themselves ran out onto the ice and it broke. Although in December the ice on the Neva is strong.
            1. Zulu_S
              Zulu_S 27 July 2016 11: 52
              0
              Quote: ism_ek
              Regarding the drowned, there is an opinion that they themselves ran onto the ice and it broke.

              Where is the opinion? Whose? Why nonsense for an opinion, even if only "someone's", to give out? Keep it to yourself.
  • nrex
    nrex 25 July 2016 11: 38
    -1
    At the moment, the Decembrist uprising is an unsuccessful attempt at a military coup. The overthrow of the autocracy and the establishment of the republic. The people from this reform are not hot or cold. The "golden youth" of that time wanted everything at once.
    1. AK64
      AK64 25 July 2016 14: 04
      0
      To date, the Decembrist uprising is an unsuccessful attempt at a military coup. The overthrow of the autocracy and the establishment of the republic.


      Not at all: just Konstantin instead of Nicholas.
      (And, if possible, all sorts of pleasantries from Constantine to the "performers")

      Pestel only had any "rr-revolutionary sympathies" there. But he was not entirely healthy in the head.
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 11: 45
    +1
    The winner writes the story.
  • tehnokrat
    tehnokrat 25 July 2016 12: 06
    +1
    Article "+", thanks to the author for this article. The analogy with the "color revolutions" is indeed interesting, albeit controversial. Nevertheless, the Decembrists acted with the best of intentions, unlike the current paid "fifth columns".
    I’m curious how the assessment of these events is changing, and my assessment, including, over time: from tragic romanticism to understanding the disastrous reforms proposed by the Decembrists for Russia. Either age, or times are different now, but only the images of kings-statesmen cause me more sympathy than the personalities of revolutionaries.
  • Verdun
    Verdun 25 July 2016 12: 42
    +3
    Indeed, the "Decembrists", hiding behind completely humane and understandable to most slogans (like most revolutionaries, democrats, perestroika), objectively worked for the West.
    Pugachev, archers and Moscow boyars, who tried to poison Ivan the Terrible, also worked in the West ...

    Decembrist Manifesto

    Destruction of the former government;

    The establishment of a temporary, until the establishment of a permanent elective;

    Free stamping, and therefore the destruction of censorship;

    Free worship for all faiths;

    Destruction of property rights that applies to people;

    The equality of all classes before the law and therefore the destruction of military courts and all kinds of judicial commissions, from which all judicial cases go to the department of the nearest civil courts;

    The announcement of the right to every citizen to do what he wants and therefore - a nobleman, merchant, tradesman, peasant, still have the right to join the military and civil service and the clergy, to wholesale and retail, paying the established duties for bidding; to acquire all sorts of contention, such as: land, houses in villages and cities; conclude all kinds of conditions among themselves, compete with each other before a court;

    Addition of poll taxes and arrears thereof;

    Destruction of recruits and military settlements;

    The destruction of monopolies, such as: salt, sale of hot wine and so on. and therefore the distillery and the extraction of salt with payment for industry from the amount of extraction of salt and vodka;

    Reducing the military service for the lower ranks, its distribution will follow the equation of military service between all classes;

    The resignation of all without removing the lower ranks, who have served for 15 years;

    Establishment of hairy, county, provincial and regional boards, which should replace all officials hitherto appointed by the civil government;

    Publicity of ships;

    The introduction of juries in the courts of criminal and civil.

    It establishes a board of 2 or 3 persons, to which it subordinates all parts of the higher management, i.e. all ministries, Council, Committee of Ministers, army, navy. In a word, the entire supreme, executive branch, but by no means legislative or judicial.

    For this latter, there remains a ministry subordinate to the Provisional Board, but for judging cases not resolved in the lower instances, the Senate Department remains criminal and a civilian is established, which is finally decided and whose members remain until the establishment of a permanent board.

    The provisional board is entrusted with the enforcement of:

    Equation of rights of all classes;

    Education of local, volost, district, provincial and regional governments;

    Education of the internal public guard;

    Jury education;

    The equation of recruitment between the estates;

    Destruction of a standing army;

    Establishment of the procedure for electing elected representatives to the House of Representatives of the People, who must approve, for the future, the existing order of the Board and the State
    Is it about this text that the author of the article writes that he was understood by the majority? What could a population understand from it, 80% of which could not read and write?
    The circle of these revolutionaries is narrow. They are terribly far from the people
    that is how V.I. Lenin described this uprising and was absolutely right. Some of the conspirators didn’t speak Russian very well either ... Revolutions are not made from above. Otherwise, their results are deplorable.
    1. Riv
      Riv 25 July 2016 13: 38
      +1
      They could understand, that's just the point. Begin the Decembrists seriously implement their program and it would blaze so that the Great French Revolution would seem like a child's play in the sandbox, and the future October Revolution - a little booze in the hostel.
      Well, if Pestel came to power, everything would be even worse. The fire would then be extinguished with blood. Have you read Pestel? Do not be lazy, google it. Then download Mein Kampf, read it and be amazed.
      1. Verdun
        Verdun 25 July 2016 14: 04
        +3
        Quote: Riv
        They could understand, that's just the point.

        Who could understand? The same nobles who visit salons and go hunting for dogs? Or do you think that the Decembrists shared their secrets with their slaves, whom they were going to free from serfdom? The latter, by the way, was considered by many to be important not so much for humanistic reasons as for raising labor efficiency. After all, slave labor is ineffective. Meanwhile, even after the abolition of serfdom, many peasants did not want the freedom offered from above and did not want to leave their masters.
        Well, if Pestel had come to power, everything would have been even worse.
        Yes, he could not come to power. The Decembrists in their manifesto dream of democracy, and democracy requires a certain level of education in society, a certain understanding of what you go and vote for, which was not even mentioned in Russia at that moment.
        1. Riv
          Riv 25 July 2016 14: 36
          +3
          You have some kind of naive view of things. In the course of any revolution, the most cruel and least afraid of shedding blood always comes to power. And your peasant is "spherical, in a vacuum." The peasants did not want to leave the landlords not because they did not need will, but because the will without land meant nothing to them.

          It was all the more easy in such a situation to rely on the peasantry. The abolition of serfdom (and this is precisely what followed from the manifesto), the abolition of recruitment - what is there incomprehensible to the peasant? But Pestel also offered to transfer the land to the peasants, and half of all available state lands. After that, the word "landowner" could be considered a synonym for the word "suicide bomber".
          1. Verdun
            Verdun 25 July 2016 15: 18
            0
            Quote: Riv
            It was all the more easy in such a situation to rely on the peasantry. The abolition of serfdom (and this is precisely what followed from the manifesto), the abolition of recruitment - what is incomprehensible to the peasant?

            And why is it then that no one mentions the crowds of peasants on Senate Square?
            1. Riv
              Riv 25 July 2016 17: 17
              +2
              And what should the peasant do in the center of St. Petersburg? But there were enough onlookers there. Nicholas himself wrote that it was impossible to drag out the matter until night. Riots could begin among ordinary people and commoners, and towards the evening they rolled out a battery.

              But imagine that a Pestelev commissar comes to some village and announces that half of the land will now be peasants (I’m not making it up, this is Russkaya Pravda). And no one will remember that the serfs themselves Pestel declared state property. And the Pugachevism will seem like sheer nonsense.
              1. Verdun
                Verdun 25 July 2016 19: 55
                +1
                Quote: Riv
                But imagine a commissar coming to some village

                Oh yeah! Imagine! For example, Commissioner Trubetskoy. Meanwhile, under the leadership of another commissioner, Volkonsky, the capital was seized by mail, Yamskoye stations and banks (since there was no telegraph and telephone yet). And the chairman of the Cheka, Bestuzhev-Ryumin, executes executions in the casemates of the Peter and Paul Fortress ... laughing Yes, and still we must not forget about Ryleyev and Muravyov-Opostol, who take in the evening (together with a crowd of enthusiastic citizens) the Winter Palace. You, dear, only write thrillers, but pseudo-historical novels. In one fell swoop you can beat Dan Brown and Bram Stoker ... For completeness, I can quote you a couple of verses by Timur Shaov
                My deceased husband was a fair liberal.
                He was a little book, a philosopher, in general, a balabol.
                And he didn’t lift the skirts of girls in the yard,
                And men basically did not flog.

                Rights, freedoms, more enlightenment of the world.
                Sometimes the court would call in the master’s hall,
                They read Sumarokova, Cantemira.
                And those in fear only poked their eyes.
                1. Riv
                  Riv 25 July 2016 20: 18
                  -2
                  I thought you were paid shekels for your posts.
    2. Zulu_S
      Zulu_S 25 July 2016 14: 52
      0
      1. Forgot Stenka Razin.
      2.20% of the literate - you are flattered by the authorities. There were not even parochial schools in 1825.
  • Riv
    Riv 25 July 2016 12: 55
    +3
    As for the mechanical transfer by the Decembrists of Western values ​​to Russian soil, the author is mistaken. Read Pestel, see for yourself. And this is two hundred years before Pinochet ... However, I would draw the attention of readers to something else: the number of conspirators.

    600 people under investigation. Not all the upper world, of course, but a very significant part of it. All these people discussed among themselves the details of the conspiracy, and even in the absence of serious secret service in Russia at that time, the information could not help but reach Nikolai. After all, he was part of the same high society. He was in the same salons, on the same officers' bouts. Regular colonel. And 600 is only attracted, but there are also relatives, acquaintances, acquaintances of acquaintances ...

    But Nikolai constantly presses in his memoirs that he did not suspect anything about the conspiracy. Cunning? Or is it more complicated and admit his knowledge, would it be necessary to execute not 5, but 50, but half the generals would be sent to Siberia?
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 13: 18
    +2
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    Quote: Paul1
    it was during E2 that the false "Russian" history was created - the non-Russians, it was with it that serfdom-slavery blossomed in a violent color. We do not know what happened in those days, because history has been rewritten, one war with Tartary is worth what, to hide the largest state in the world, what to say about the rest of the facts of history.


    In my opinion you need to be treated! The war with Tartaria ... This is where and when ?! Tartaria - what kind of beast is this ?! You would have read less pseudo-historical nonsense, and then at such a pace, and to ancient ukrov not far!

    Did you believe that the Golden Horde kept us under oppression? Was it Tartaria? So what's the problem? It's bad when things are not called by their proper names, confusion is in their heads. And if you ask yourself the question where is Tartaria? So get the Tartaria maps in Google and look and don’t spit saliva. Have you ever thought that the winner usually writes pseudo-historical nonsense?
    1. Riv
      Riv 25 July 2016 13: 33
      +1
      You again forgot to accept the taletki that you were drawn to Tartaria?
      1. Pavel1
        Pavel1 25 July 2016 14: 01
        -2
        Quote: Riv
        You again forgot to accept the taletki that you were drawn to Tartaria?


        you, as an ethereal spirit, are far from realities, in the real world, your own life in a fantasy world is your own and these worlds do not intersect, well, no, no ...
        1. Riv
          Riv 25 July 2016 14: 37
          +1
          Are you talking to perfume? Oh well...
          1. Pavel1
            Pavel1 25 July 2016 14: 53
            -2
            Quote: Riv
            Are you talking to perfume? Oh well...


            Uhudshansky? Oh well... laughing
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 13: 52
    +3
    Quote: Paul1
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    In my opinion you need to be treated! The war with Tartaria ... This is where and when ?! Tartaria - what kind of beast is this ?! You would have read less pseudo-historical nonsense, and then at such a pace, and to ancient ukrov not far!


    I am healthy and do not need to be treated. Well, if you would just go to these types of historical local forums, you should know that on EVERY MAP starting from the 15th century to the 19th century there is such a country as Tartaria, that in all encyclopedias 18-19th in French, Spanish, English there are descriptions of the largest country World of Great Tartaria with its capital in Tobolsk. If you want to know the history from school textbooks written by the Germans, the Baeromshlötzermomiller is your problem, but you will never know the truth, but only the falsehood that you slip in for reading.

    It’s useless, they only have to pretend that they know everything and everything, historians, and sometimes they make such assumptions that almost they themselves were participants in certain events wink And corrected again: they say I don’t know what happened so and so laughing They only have to put a plus sign or minus .. but turn on their head and analyze and ask themselves the question: Why is this and who benefits from it? They do not have enough intelligence.
    1. Pavel1
      Pavel1 25 July 2016 14: 12
      0
      Quote: Mengad
      It’s useless, they only have to pretend that they all know and everything, historians, A


      Over the years of this pseudo-historical fuel forum, we can conclude that history and politics are two sides of the same coin, and politics is a constant war, when you need to hold on to your positions at any cost, because surrender of positions is the surrender of your feeder. Techniques in such a war are allowed the most immoral, lying, juggling, defamation, shabbiness, outright stupidity, rudeness-assaults. From our side, on the Russian side, only one reception is TRUE. Well, and with whom it is true, with that and strength.
      1. Riv
        Riv 25 July 2016 14: 42
        +1
        How do you place punctuation marks in the first place ...
        1. Pavel1
          Pavel1 25 July 2016 14: 51
          0
          Quote: Riv
          How do you place punctuation marks in the first place ...

          the essence of man is not an abstraction inherent in an individual individual, in reality it is a manifestation of all social relations. K. Marx. bully
      2. Andrey K
        Andrey K 26 July 2016 08: 18
        +5
        I almost agree with you. Only here is the ethnonym russcue spelled with two с. hi
        As soon as we learn to respect ourselves and correctly write the self-name of the titular nation of our state, we will immediately defeat everyone.
        1. Pavel1
          Pavel1 26 July 2016 08: 33
          0
          Quote: Andrey K
          I almost agree with you. Only here is the ethnonym russcue spelled with two с. hi
          As soon as we learn to respect ourselves and correctly write the self-name of the titular nation of our state, we will immediately defeat everyone.


          The Radzivilov Chronicle RUSSIAN is written in one C. Two C. With the reverse translation from German, and it is not typical for the Russians to double consonants for no reason.

          http://chronologia.org/rare/radzivil/im/IMG_0988.jpg
          1. Andrey K
            Andrey K 26 July 2016 09: 46
            +6
            Quote: Paul1
            The Radzivilov Chronicle RUSSIAN is written in one C. Two C. With the reverse translation from German, and it is not typical for the Russians to double consonants for no reason.

            It is interesting to talk with you. Like a deaf person with a blind person (no need to litter the links, to nothing). And why do not you refer to the Facial Annalistic Code, it will be older, and does not cause ambiguities, like the Radzivilov annals.
            Dear "Pavel1" - if you refer to the chronicles and know about the distortion of history by the Europeans, as pointed out by Mikhail Vasilyevich Lomonosov, then you would refer to, say, Lavrentievskaya, Ipatievskaya, Voskresenskaya, Novgorodskaya, Kholmogorskaya, Belorussian-Lithuanian, Ustyugskaya and Vologda Siberian chronicles ...
            Before Peter the Great, this chronicle was in the hands of the Germans, and even then "miracles" were happening to it ...
            In accordance with the accepted norms of writing the ethnonym and the name of our state, your "conclusions" of what is characteristic of Russians and what is not - remain only yours hi
            1. Pavel1
              Pavel1 26 July 2016 11: 29
              0
              Quote: Andrey K
              It is interesting to talk with you. Like a deaf person with a blind person


              what is so interesting then?

              Quote: Andrey K
              no need to litter the links, for nothing


              why "not necessary", when it is necessary, I give evidence, and not bare words, so it is necessary ...

              Quote: Andrey K
              And why do not you refer to the Front Annalistic Code, it will be older


              illiterate respected drug of Ivan the Terrible was and was created under Ivan4 i.e. 16c, well, the Story of the Provisional Years, historians derive from 10c.
              Quote: Andrey K
              if you refer to the annals and know about the distortion of history by the Europeans, as Mikhail Vasilyevich Lomonosov indicated, then you would refer to the admissible ones - Lavrentiev, Ipatiev, Voskresenskaya, Novgorod, Kholmogorsk, Belorussian-Lithuanian, Ustyuzh and Vologda or Siberian annals ...


              but I don’t see any advantages of the same Lavrentievsky annals before PVL, because in terms of content it is almost the same, only without comics, but in fact they are all one LISTS, that is. not the originals. Well, and following your logic, if the Germans had the manuscript, then why didn’t they still correct the spelling?
              Quote: Andrey K
              In accordance with the accepted norms of writing the ethnonym and the name of our state, your "conclusions" of what is characteristic of Russians and what is not - remain only yours


              they would only be mine if not the sources of the word in the first annals, and secondly Dahl’s dictionary
              http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5052247
              you can download the old edition of the 19B dictionary so there’s no doubling of C. There’s the question of when and who will change our name of the nation to us? Bolsheviks again? They greatly spoiled the Russian people, however, as Putin said, they were almost 90% Jewish ...
    2. Oleg Monarchist
      Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 17: 33
      +1
      The term "Tartaria" existed only in the heads of the Trans-European cartographers and politicians. This is what they called the Tatars by analogy with other Greek Tartarus (the underworld of the dead). Only here any khans of Kazan, Crimean or Astrakhan did not call themselves tartars or tartarii. laughing On some Russian maps of Peter the Great's times there is a similar name, but, for example, on the General Map of the Russian Empire from the atlas of 1745, there are not any "Tartarii".

      If we are now in Russia, we will not officially name you the European Union, but for example Pid ... rReich, you are Mengad, support this name? laughing
      1. Pavel1
        Pavel1 25 July 2016 17: 47
        -2
        Quote: Oleg Monarchist
        On some Russian maps of Peter the Great's times there is a similar name, but, for example, on the General Map of the Russian Empire from the atlas of 1745, there are not any "Tartarii".


        it’s a fake, maybe he did it himself, it’s not difficult with the current development of the printing industry. As for Tartaria, there are HUNDRED MAPS and, of course, all of them cannot be faked.
        1. Oleg Monarchist
          Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 18: 03
          +1
          Well taFay, call us the rulers of Tartary, designate the borders of Tartary, bring Tartar laws, and not verbiage in the style of "this is a fake" laughing
          1. Pavel1
            Pavel1 26 July 2016 07: 43
            -2
            Quote: Oleg Monarchist
            Well taFay, call us the rulers of Tartary, designate the borders of Tartary, bring Tartar laws, and not verbiage in the style of "this is a fake" laughing


            https://youtu.be/ja2kVP_pD6g
            https://youtu.be/xV6mPMuPXGg

            maybe you’ll understand ...
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 14: 05
    +1
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    You are sure to see a doctor. Here in a neighboring country, too, they got to the point that the first mammoths were ancient Ukrainians, well, there they talked about how they dug up the sea, about how they defeated Xerxes’s army, about Kozak Mamaia and other crap. You quote me a cutter, for a complete understanding, so to speak. You can tell your followers about runes, Vedas, etc. I don’t care, I don’t live in alternative worlds.

    Dear? judging by your posts in this forum, you obviously got lost and got the wrong way. Since if you even don’t have enough mind in Google, type the words, Luzhitsky Serbs, about which people wrote to you. But you have enough to stick to the subject some mammoths, Mamaya, ukrov with their pseudo-history, but you can’t answer the question in essence? You probably have enough mind to put a minus. So who else needs to be treated is another question.
  • solaris15
    solaris15 25 July 2016 14: 13
    0
    Yes, everything went wrong in our country after February 1917! Nevertheless, the Bolsheviks miraculously managed to correct their joint in 1941, when the Brest-Lithuanian peace treaty was concluded in 1945-1918. Also in the USSR, including, a nuclear bomb was created and we were the first in space ... The only question is, would we have achieved the same without revolution, the horrors of the civil war, intervention and immigration of millions of Russian people? I think yes. I am convinced of this.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 15: 15
    +3
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    Quote: nadezhiva
    In short, everything according to Lavrov: "Morons, ..."


    I absolutely agree with you! As well as with Mr. Lavrov.
    Instead of learning the history of Russia, albeit not a little rewritten to suit the situation, all kinds of unscientific nonsense appear in the form of Tatraria (in fact, territory, not country) and other nonsense.
    The neighbors, out of this delirium, have already lost their minds for reason. Either the poor dig up the sea, sometimes the vast steppes of Ukraine plow with submarines, then spaceships plow the brains of their president, in the end they go with pots on their heads ...!
    So here we have such individuals here, although it seems that it is not spring already and the exacerbations should have ended ...

    Apparently the word ,, nonsense ,, in your head firmly stuck smile Let's briefly analyze what nonsense is Nonsense is when one person does not understand what another is saying. But the question is this ... the word nonsense was invented by people who, from their powerlessness to understand this or that essence of this world and the processes taking place in it, justify their powerlessness and mental retardation .. 'This is purely my opinion. Apparently ,, individual ,, it is you in whom all the arguments are reduced to the word ,, delirium, that speaks about your small vocabulary .... and the inability of your brain to think broadly.
    1. Riv
      Riv 25 July 2016 17: 18
      -2
      But the same is nonsense. I don’t understand Einstein’s calculations, but I’ll understand that his conclusions are quite reasonable. And you are raving.
      1. bk316
        bk316 25 July 2016 21: 08
        +2
        Quote: Riv
        I don’t understand Einstein’s calculations, but I’ll understand that his conclusions are quite reasonable.

        If you read it (Einstein), then you would understand that the opposite is true - the calculations are clear, the conclusions do not fit in your head.
        If you are ok with mathematics, at least at the level of the Soviet school, read "The Theory of Relativity for Millions"
  • nrex
    nrex 25 July 2016 15: 20
    +1
    And if we speak in slogans, then "LAND FOR THE PEASANTS, BREAD FOR THE HUNGRY, PEACE TO PEOPLES!", Also sounds beautiful, but what came of it all ?!
  • Svyatoslav
    Svyatoslav 25 July 2016 15: 23
    +5
    Diana Ilyina is just a provocateur. If it is, of course - "she".
    In addition, she already lives in an alternative world.
    New facts, if they can be considered new, are not of interest to her. Then she mentioned the textbooks, without specifying which ones — let her read about mammoths.
    He said softer as he could.
  • Zulu_S
    Zulu_S 25 July 2016 15: 29
    +1
    Another speculation on the topic of Nikolai1 is good, and all the rest are blasphemy.
    But the "December uprising" is a prototype of the current color revolutions, it is a clinical case. Is progress evil? Maybe let everyone follow the path of progress, while Russia is not on the way there? By leaps and bounds in the "perpendicular direction"?
  • Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 25 July 2016 17: 00
    0
    It seems that none of the commentators have heard of disagreements between the Southern and Northern societies, about Pestel’s supercentralized unitary republican project and the federal draft of the constitutional monarchy of Muravyov.
    1. Riv
      Riv 25 July 2016 17: 22
      +1
      Well, it's not a matter of disagreement. Southern society generally looked more like a Masonic lodge with a national bias. There were "boyars", whose decisions had to be obeyed by the rest, and Pestel's authority was indisputable. Northern society ... was a mess. :)
      But really, almost none of the commentators have heard about "Russian Truth", and probably the author of the article has not read it either.
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 17: 30
    +1
    Quote: nadezhiva
    Yes, you understand. Uzbek tartars and Mongols, Tibetan tartars ..... this is just a version that existed among enlightened Europeans. Moreover, the Europeans did not separate them as nations and did not bother with the differences between the Tartars and the Mongols. It was one continuous, terrible and wild Tartaria. Do not go into the wilds.
    Another 100 years will pass and the lying Europeans will begin to erase Muscovy in encyclopedias / textbooks. There will be one solid Tartaria laughing

    Of course, the version of zapadnikoffff ... judging by your logic, we are now also ... Tatars of Russia, Mari of Russia, Kalmyks of Russia, Bashkirs of Russia, etc. what do they have in common? had its own history, worldview, culture, foundations and customs that their fathers and grandfathers passed on to their descendants. Do you think that this does not deserve attention and study? We lived with these people side by side for centuries, traded, were friends and fought, Wars last for years .. and friendship .. for centuries.
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 17: 40
    +3
    Quote: Riv
    But the same is nonsense. I don’t understand Einstein’s calculations, but I’ll understand that his conclusions are quite reasonable. And you are raving.

    You do not understand the calculations of Einstein? but at the same time understand that his conclusions are reasonable? laughing Let me know? And on what are your logical conclusions based? what do you (Einstein) think the conclusions are reasonable? laughing In order to draw a line under the conclusion ... it is necessary to understand at least a little bit in a particular issue raised (in this case by Einstein) But excuse me? you yourself wrote that you don’t understand Einstein’s calculations? Where is the logic? laughing Do you want me to answer what your logic is based on? AUTHORITY! PS 2nd commandment: Do not make yourself an idol, nor any image of it.
    1. Riv
      Riv 25 July 2016 18: 22
      0
      Not on authority. Einstein's conclusions are repeatedly confirmed by experiments.
      And your dreams of Great Tartaria exist only in your sore imagination.
      1. Pavel1
        Pavel1 25 July 2016 18: 28
        +1
        Quote: Riv
        Einstein's conclusions are repeatedly confirmed by experiments.


        there is not a single experimental fact confirming the relativistic effects invented by Einstein, can you name one?
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 17: 49
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Monarchist
    The term "Tartaria" existed only in the heads of the Trans-European cartographers and politicians. This is what they called the Tatars by analogy with other Greek Tartarus (the underworld of the dead). Only here any khans of Kazan, Crimean or Astrakhan did not call themselves tartars or tartarii. laughing On some Russian maps of Peter the Great's times there is a similar name, but, for example, on the General Map of the Russian Empire from the atlas of 1745, there are not any "Tartarii".

    If we are now in Russia, we will not officially name you the European Union, but for example Pid ... rReich, you are Mengad, support this name? laughing

    Answer me please? and if you look closely at the maps of Tartaria (terminology zapadnikoff) wink So .. and the nations spelled out on these maps are also Europeans' fantasies? Tell me please, why did Europeans know more about Tartaria ... than we do, although we have been neighbors with those lands for centuries? Didn’t we ask ourselves such a question? Since the Golden Horde was canceled, it doesn’t tell you anything? 300 years they hid the history of region (Tartaria) under the Golden Horde yoke.
    1. Oleg Monarchist
      Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 18: 10
      +1
      And these nationalities, they themselves were aware that they did not live in the Kazan Khanate, for example, but in some kind of Tartaria laughing
      1. Riv
        Riv 25 July 2016 18: 24
        0
        Of course not. But to explain something to this person is useless. You better give him the idea that Gog and Magog are brothers, progenitors of the Slavs. He will think it over for a month and possibly forget the password for Topvar.
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 17: 59
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Monarchist
    It is harmful for you, Mr. KARTOS, to engage in "self-education" if you draw a conclusion about the existence of a certain state "Tartary" on the basis of medieval Western European maps. Do not tell us about the state of "Chukhonia", the Chukhonians still lived there, they really, through thoughtlessness, consider themselves Estonians (now Estonians).

    Dear, you brought an analogy ... of Russia with a nationality living in a certain territory of RUSSIA. Just like the Chukchi and other nationalities lived within the borders of TARTARI. So .. sometimes it’s useful to engage in self-education if you have logical thinking wink
    1. Riv
      Riv 25 July 2016 18: 25
      -1
      Chukchi-also Russian ??? I knew it.
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 18: 10
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Monarchist
    on the General Map of the Russian Empire from the atlas of 1745, there are no "tartaries".

    If we are now in Russia, we will not officially name you the European Union, but for example Pid ... rReich, you are Mengad, support this name? laughing

    At least do you sometimes ask yourself questions? and that’s good. Yes, you’re right on the maps of Tartaria on Peter’s map. Ask yourself: Why? Why would an empire with centuries-old foundations just take it and disappear? so how can it be? That's what you need to look for when it was and when it began to disappear .. and this is the time of Peter the Great ... his rule already raises a lot of questions, so start by studying the Peter rule.
    1. Oleg Monarchist
      Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 18: 17
      -1
      Just the same on the maps of the Peter's era, they are, since they were redrawn from Western European ones, but before Peter's and after Peter's, no tartaries exist. What nafig "Tartar Empire", and even with "age-old foundations"? laughing
      Disappeared say in Peter's time ... well, so everyone knows about the "Russian-Tartar" wars laughing, this is when the evil Russians destroyed the prosperous Tartar Empire wassat
      1. Pavel1
        Pavel1 25 July 2016 18: 26
        0
        Quote: Oleg Monarchist
        but before Peter's and after Peter's no tartaria exists. TO


        where only such nonsense come from? You didn’t fall from the moon for an hour?
        judging by the quality of the drawing, the 19th or late 18th century map
        http://masterok.livejournal.com/78393.html
        solid tartaria both before and after, and instead of ...
        1. Oleg Monarchist
          Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 18: 35
          0
          Hey, dotepa, how else to explain to you that "Tartaria" existed in the mad brains of the Western Europeans. By the way, they used to draw turtles of elephants and flat earth on the maps, study this issue without fail !!!! You might get a Nobel Prize laughing
          1. Pavel1
            Pavel1 25 July 2016 18: 42
            0
            Quote: Oleg Monarchist
            How else can I explain to you that the "Tartarii" existed


            and you won’t be able to explain, there isn’t enough explainer, you came from somewhere and an hour later you’ll leave back, not explained and not understood ...
        2. Oleg Monarchist
          Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 18: 41
          0
          And by the way, on the card you presented, it is not written "ThatРtaria "and" TaТaria! laughing laughing laughing
          1. Pavel1
            Pavel1 25 July 2016 18: 44
            0
            Quote: Oleg Monarchist
            And by the way, on the card you presented, it is not written "ThatРtaria "and" TaТaria! laughing laughing laughing


            It is the same...
  • Oleg Monarchist
    Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 18: 20
    +1
    Fence Ganjubas in Tartaria laughing
    1. Pavel1
      Pavel1 25 July 2016 18: 31
      +1
      Quote: Oleg Monarchist
      Fence Ganjubas in Tartaria


      what is it to say? cheap...
      1. Oleg Monarchist
        Oleg Monarchist 25 July 2016 18: 48
        0
        Cheap? You are rich "tartars" .... laughing
  • Mengad
    Mengad 25 July 2016 18: 33
    +2
    Quote: Riv
    Of course not. But to explain something to this person is useless. You better give him the idea that Gog and Magog are brothers, progenitors of the Slavs. He will think it over for a month and possibly forget the password for Topvar.

    Enlighten me unreasonable. Gog and Magog are the progenitors of the Slavs? from the far east al from the Chukchi tribes did we go?
  • cedar
    cedar 25 July 2016 18: 36
    0
    Quote: Zulu_S
    Another speculation on the topic of Nikolai1 is good, and all the rest are blasphemy.
    But the "December uprising" is a prototype of the current color revolutions, it is a clinical case. Is progress evil? Maybe let everyone follow the path of progress, while Russia is not on the way there? By leaps and bounds in the "perpendicular direction"?


    Nicholas 1 is the real Tsar. In a decisive moment for the fate of the Empire and its peoples, he showed strong-willed qualities. Destroyed the enemies of Faith, Tsar and Fatherland. That saved Faith, and the King, and the Fatherland and its many million people from bloody hell.
    In 1917, by his denial of the authority given to him by God to preserve and protect the Kingdom, Nicholas II, the anointed of God, doomed Faith, Tsar and Fatherland to annihilation. A total of about 2 million lost lives to the joy of the bloodsuckers of the Antichrist!
    If you notice, respected, scientific and technological progress is accompanied by moral and ethical regression, i.e. feral and rabid masses. The machine (computer) and everything machine, with a heavy tread of the statue of the commander, replaces Man and humanity. Get ready to meet Masha .. aha.
    In general, the article raises extremely important and relevant issues for all of us.
    Putin ... - Nikolay-1 ... or Nikolay-2 ..? Wash ourselves or choke ..?