Military Review

Turkey is preparing to throw

95
Turkey is preparing to throw


The attempted coup committed by a group of Turkish military did not come as a surprise. The fact that something like this is possible has been talked about for a long time, but the failure of the insurgency does not guarantee at all that Erdogan will continue to rule for a long time and successfully. And the reasons for this are more than enough. At the moment, the spectacle of the destroyed cities of southeastern Turkey outwardly differs little from a similar spectacle of war-ridden settlements in Syria, Libya or Iraq, and the Kurdish paramilitary units are getting closer to creating their own single political space from Iran to the Mediterranean each day. After the alleged unification of the Kurdish "cantons" in Syria, only Turkish Hatay will be on the path of a new national liberation force. The Kurdish rebirth is actively supported by the United States and European countries, who see it as a tool for fundamentally reformatting the Middle East, the largest since the time of the Sykes-Pico agreements, which this year just turned a hundred years old. For Turkey, which actively supported the “Syrian opposition”, which was destroying the Syrian state, the moment of truth has arrived. “Neo-Osmans” realized too late, rampant foreign policy adventurism ultimately leads not to the expansion of imperial territory, but to its reduction, but nothing is possible to play back. You can only reduce the final consequences.

What pushed the Turks to such adventurism? The answer is simple and complex at the same time. The newest история Turkey really reminds us of our own history. This country experienced its “collapse of the USSR” after the First World War, when its significant territories were under the control of the Entente countries. Even earlier, the nation ceded its lands as a result of conflicts with Italy and the Balkan Union. The idea of ​​returning the lost one way or another has been preserved in the Turkish public consciousness for many decades.

Sometimes it seems that Turkey was between two eras. On the one hand, it wants to be a classical empire of the XIX century with all the necessary attributes, on the other hand, the swing to the industrial state-nation of the XXI century is clearly visible. These two goals are in a clear contradiction, although President Recep Erdogan is trying to combine them into one thing.

In Turkish society, for a long time, it coexisted with imperial democracy. True, this “democracy” actually concerned only the Turkish Muslim population. Minorities were subjected to all kinds of persecution and direct extermination. For example, in 1942, non-military Turkey accepted a frankly overwhelming “luxury tax”, according to which Armenians, Greeks and Jews paid much more than Muslims. Those unable to pay were sent to labor camps or brought to suicide. In the post-war history, the barbarous Istanbul pogrom 1955 of the year, directed against the Greek minority of the city, became an equally grim page.

Now the political regime itself is becoming tougher, and the country is clearly preparing for expansion. The geographical position of the country and its scale speak in favor of the imperial path of development of Turkey. The area of ​​Turkey is 783 000 square kilometers, in which almost 80 million people live. Major power by any measure. Ankara has the second largest army in the NATO bloc after the United States of America and a strong military industry in which huge amounts of money are invested annually. The flag of the modern republic largely repeats the Ottoman, and the presidential seal (a sixteen-pointed star surrounded by sixteen stars) is interpreted as a symbol of sixteen historical "Turkic empires". Ankara controls the strategically important Black Sea straits.



Turkey at all times was a very ideological state, comparable in this respect only to communist China in the time of Mao Zedong. National flags and portraits of the founder of the state can be found here not only in all state institutions, but also on the streets, literally at every turn. And in quantities that clearly exceed all reasonable limits. So state symbols are usually abused either in the newly conquered area or in the territory disputed by the neighboring state. It makes no sense to say that most of the territory of Turkey does not fall into any of these categories, but the atmosphere of expectation is artificially maintained that a certain powerful enemy is just waiting to take these territories back.

For many years, Turkey has been trying to become the leader not only of the entire Turkic-speaking community, but also of the Islamic world as a whole. This is an extremely difficult task, as Saudi Arabia and Iran, countries where Islamic traditions are much stronger, are actively claiming the same role. Obviously, it is for this reason that today official Ankara is increasingly retreating from Ataturk’s precepts in the direction of hard traditionalism both in culture and politics.

Another element in the construction of the renewed empire is the mighty navy. Recep Erdogan's statement about plans to create his own aircraft carrier should be considered seriously in light of the start of construction of the universal landing craft TGC Anatolia. There is an intention to install SM-3 anti-missiles on the latest TF2000 frigates, the number of which is planned to be increased to 8 units.



For Russia, all of the above has a very practical interest. The destruction of the Russian Su-24 at once transferred Turkey from the category of just neighbors to the category of countries worthy of close attention. For some time we will have to come to terms with the fact that a nationalist state has emerged on our southern borders with a not too predictable leadership that controls the connection of our largest port (Novorossiysk) with the outside world.

Speaking about the “friendship between our countries”, we should not forget about the Turkish support of Afghan “freedom fighters” and the role that Ankara played in the escalation of violence in the territory of the Soviet Transcaucasus in the last years of the USSR, as well as the rather significant participation of Turkish public organizations in the Chechen wars. And also about the later events related to the Crimea and the war in the Donbass, where Turkey can hardly be called a neutral side. The destruction of the Su-24 only gives the picture a finished look. After this, one can talk about relations with Ankara only in the context of how many “Calibres” may be required for the destruction of the Sinopian naval base, if the situation requires it. For the sake of justice, it should be noted that for the Turkish General Staff we all these years continued to remain a probable adversary, no matter how much oath assurances of eternal friendship may sound.

If there is a permanent one in the world, it is a Russian-Turkish confrontation. Accepting this axiom, it becomes obvious that it would be extremely unwise to build a potential adversary of a nuclear power plant or to pull another gas “flow” towards it, helping to strengthen Ankara’s ambitions. It is obvious that the growth of the Turkish economy will be followed by the growth of military power. And there is not far, for example, until the revision of the status of the Black Sea straits, the encroachments on which Turkey carried out in the first half of the nineties.

At the same time, a classical empire based on traditional Ottoman and orthodox Islamic values ​​is hardly conceivable in the modern world. No, it can be built, but hardly modernized in accordance with the requirements of the era. Such a “new” Turkey, returning to self-isolation, will inevitably follow the path of the Ottoman Empire, which they have been clumsily trying to reform several times, but in the end only led to a total catastrophe.

According to news agencies, Vladimir Putin may meet with Recep Erdogan in August. Intensive contacts and consultations are currently taking place on this issue. The two leaders hardly began to trust each other more, but obviously, in a difficult geopolitical situation, both decided to bury the ax of war. Albeit for a while.

The Russian leadership has no illusions about what Erdogan's Turkey is like. And it deliberately goes to some reputational losses inside the country for the sake of reconciliation with the new “Sultan”. Apparently, at this point in time, such reconciliation is indeed extremely necessary.

The most accurate historical analogy to the present honeymoon of Russia and Turkey is the Rapall agreement of 1922 between the RSFSR and the Weimar Republic. Then also two former enemies in international isolation decided to unite in the face of common difficulties. Only a few years later, German firms, to put it in modern terms, “threw” Soviet Russia, and some time later, 22 June 1941 happened. It is this historical experience that must be remembered, once again rushing thoughtlessly into Ankara’s arms.
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  1. Jean gray
    Jean gray 23 July 2016 05: 55
    +5
    These elite nonhumans from the Western elites, political, financial, “intellectual”, who provoked the 90s with us in an effort to get their own unipolar world under the guise of helping Russia in self-destruction — there should be no mercy for the Russian Themis! Themis has nothing to do with Christianity and its Virtues, it is a low-lying perverted pagan goddess who longs for hourly sacrifices, blood of people and suffering in prisons, violence over souls and bodies, and as a result gives peace and confidence to the citizens of the state, here Jesus Christ said : Judge not lest ye be judged! But since the whole world is judging to make it easier, then the Blind Themis of the Russian Federation must judge them so that they feel themselves in hell during their lifetime! In the zoo cage of any foreign oligarchs, you can put a webcam there so that people can see it, families, naked, like wild animals, tickets for children at a discount, let them go, watch, enjoy the Great Country. They introduce the collective responsibility of our athletes, all Russians, all Crimeans for their decision to join the Russian Federation have already introduced - the only way to teach them at least something in these lives before sending for reincarnation in frogs and boiler chickens is to introduce a legislatively criminal heavy responsibility of world families oligarchs and the rest of the elite for slandering Russia to answer and answer collectively. Only in this way will we curb their ambitions leading the world to a total nuclear biological war, Themis - a pagan deity to whom all the superheroes of our time serve! Then the planet “Thank you Russians!” will say ...
    1. Dryuya2
      Dryuya2 23 July 2016 06: 09
      0
      trouble again sad
      http://www.vz.ru/news/2016/7/22/823096.html
      A Russian soldier, Private Nikita Shevchenko, died in the Syrian province of Aleppo, accompanied by a convoy of cars of the center of reconciliation of the warring parties, the press service and information department of the Russian Ministry of Defense reports.
      =====
    2. Smog
      Smog 23 July 2016 07: 34
      +12
      Jean gray
      - introduce legislatively criminally heavy responsibility of the families of world oligarchs and other elites for slandering Russia, so that they answer and answer collectively. Only in this way will we curb their ambitions leading the world to a total nuclear biological warfare,

      What the hell? Nuclear biological warfare is how?
      And as he introduced the Rothschild and Rockefeller families to the dock in the Basmanny court of the capital of our Motherland, Moscow, he was so touched. Keep it up. And link them to the link, to Kolyma, to Siberia, to bring down centuries-old spruce and oak. Them, these are the families of world oligarchs. am laughing
      1. avt
        avt 23 July 2016 07: 51
        +6
        Quote: Smog
        What the hell? Nuclear biological warfare is how?

        Elementary Watson! First we bring the bacteria and take the soap. As a result, my hands are polonium. wassat Or vice versa, I wash my hands with polonium and while the hair falls out, we bring in the bacteria for their further evolution into higher life forms according to Darwin. wassat
        1. Smog
          Smog 23 July 2016 08: 05
          +9
          Quote: avt
          Quote: Smog
          What the hell? Nuclear biological warfare is how?

          Elementary Watson! First we bring the bacteria and take the soap. As a result, my hands are polonium. wassat Or vice versa, I wash my hands with polonium and while the hair falls out, we bring in the bacteria for their further evolution into higher life forms according to Darwin. wassat

          Thanks, Sherlock! hi
          About soap, it didn’t even get into my head. request
          1. Lyubopyatov
            Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 12: 40
            +1
            No soap or sewing, but the girl has the right dreams. Only it is impossible to include them in any program. Blind Themis of the Russian Federation does not read sensible proposals on the "Military Review", but takes off her hat in front of the world oligarchy - and not only that. And we must start not with the criminal prosecution of Rockefeller, who transplanted himself a new heart for the sixth time, but with the nationalization of Abramovich and the vekselbergs. Even the slogan "Down with the capitalist ministers!" for today's Russia is rather weak, you need - "Give us the Fatherland Government!"
        2. Donhapa
          Donhapa 23 July 2016 22: 53
          +1
          Quote: avt

          Elementary Watson! First we bring the bacteria and take the soap. As a result, my hands are polonium. Or vice versa, I wash my hands with polonium and while the hair falls out, we bring in the bacteria for their further evolution into higher life forms according to Darwin.

          Well, you and the barbarian turn out to be ... you must take away the soap, and throw the bacteria
      2. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 23 July 2016 09: 48
        +2
        Quote: Smog
        .And to exile them to exile, to Kolyma, to Siberia, to bring down centuries-old spruce and oaks.

        Oak trees? In Kolyma ??? belay
        Let’s better build the Kolyma tract)))
        1. Smog
          Smog 23 July 2016 18: 04
          +5
          Quote: Nyrobsky
          Quote: Smog
          .And to exile them to exile, to Kolyma, to Siberia, to bring down centuries-old spruce and oaks.

          Oak trees? In Kolyma ??? belay

          Well, as I thought. While these rostilds with rockefellers are being transported to Kolyma, centuries-old oaks will grow there fellow , global warming on planet Earth. So the oaks will grow for sure. And as for the links of some, vague doubts torment me, oh torment me ....
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 23 July 2016 07: 52
      +1
      The imperial spirit is indestructible. About a century and a half ago, no one thought that the United States would become a world empire. Then there were three - Russian, Ottoman and British. All collapsed. The USA and the USSR arose. But how much time has passed on the scale of history? Now the revival of the Empire has more chances for Russia. From that her competitors spread rot.
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 23 July 2016 14: 36
        0
        Quote: siberalt
        Then there were three - Russian, Ottoman and British.

        To be precise, there was, at that time, still a "twin" Austro-Hungarian ", and five years later there was a" Second Reich ".
      2. captain
        captain 23 July 2016 18: 15
        0
        Dear sibiralt, a century and a half ago there were more than three empires. You correctly indicated three; British, Russian and Ottoman. Still existed one and a half centuries ago; Portuguese (1495-1975gg), Austrian (1804-1918gg), German Empire-Second Reich (1871-1918gg), Spanish Empire (from 90 of the fifteenth century to the end of the twentieth century), Japanese Empire (from 1868 to 1947gg) .d. There were many empires, but not all remained to exist even as states.
      3. Talgat
        Talgat 24 July 2016 10: 23
        +2
        Quote: siberalt
        the revival of the Empire has more chances for Russia. From that her competitors spread rot


        I agree in principle. The wording is really different - the Clintonsha directly stated that the speeches of Putin Nazarbayev and Lukashenko will not deceive anyone (all three together declare that they are not going to revive any USSR 2 - that it will be a purely economic union like the European Union) - she also said so - "We know what they really want - and we will not allow it "

        I think everyone will agree that the "world rulers" are not at all interested. if Eurasia creates strong economic and military-political associations like that. how the West created them (NATO - the European Union) - and therefore their strongest media and propaganda machine successfully sows in the peoples of Russia and the former USSR "the desire for independence" "self-righteousness", etc.

        I also agree with the points below - about the competition of the empire. No matter how 2 elephants are not placed in the shop. Eurasian empires have arisen many times over thousands of years and contributed to the collapse of many others - from the Roman to the Swedes and Turks.


        But with Turkey, in general, a paradox: It’s the same as with Bulgaria and Greece - according to the Orthodox faith, they seem to be allies of Russians - but no. Geopolitics prevails. As Napoleon said - geography is a sentence

        And so Turkey is, because by its Turkic blood and language its people are related to the peoples of Eurasia - from Altai - Tuvinians - to Kazakhs - Tatars, etc. But geography, on the contrary, made it an eternal enemy of Eurasia and an integral part of the West (now NATO - tomorrow is still something)

        No, I'm not saying that there is no need to soften relations with rhetoric about Orthodox kinship with Greece or Bulgaria, or improve relations with Turkey with the help of "Turksoy" - this all helps to establish contacts - a bad peace is always better than a good war.
        You just need to remember the basics - geopolitics and geography - and not build unnecessary illusions
      4. v02000
        v02000 24 July 2016 15: 36
        0
        About the imperial spirit - http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2779872&cid=680 - and who is the emperor? Russia?
    4. VECHESLAVIAN
      VECHESLAVIAN 23 July 2016 11: 05
      0
      Yeah, if they manage to say thank you, and the main thing is that there would be someone to say, otherwise with the Americanization walking around the planet, soon all the Gusskys will turn into Pokemon with iPhones and McDucks with Coca-Cola instead of brains. There is no need to talk about patriotism, the pro-American style of life is still pouring from the screens of zombies, even the third-rate Leps bawls that "he will go to live in London" ... You can minus, but patriotism in Russia now looks something like this: http://ahedzhaknulo.ru/3ed89cb2566c83749256bb8b3a61f6e6 "Oh, forgive us Oleg Anatolyevich Peshkov for Turkish all-inclusive!"
  2. Gunther
    Gunther 23 July 2016 05: 57
    +14
    Quote: Author
    If there is anything permanent in the world, it’s Russian-
    Turkish confrontation. Taking this axiom,
    it becomes obvious that it would be supremely
    it is unreasonable to build a potential adversary of a nuclear plant
    pull another gas "flow" to it, helping
    to strengthen the ambitions of Ankara.

    The author grasped the very essence, our politicians should not chase short-term benefits, risking getting a "knife in the back."
    1. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky 23 July 2016 10: 10
      +3
      Quote: Gunter
      The author grasped the very essence, our politicians should not chase short-term benefits, risking getting a "knife in the back."

      Why short-term?
      Yes, Erdogan is still a "partner", but given the fact that in case of his overthrow, a completely pro-American leader would come to power, who would definitely pursue American policy in the region to the detriment of Turkish sovereignty, it is better to have this "comrade" with ambitions sultan.
      Yes, and miss the opportunity to use the emerging split between Turkey and the United States, it would not be rational from the point of view of Russia's geopolitical interests.
      The fact that we are building a nuclear power plant and a gas pipeline there is not only "bad", but also very good. this energetic leash will always give an opportunity to pull up the "sultan". This nuclear power plant cannot operate without our fuel, just as a gas pipe cannot be useful without our gas. In addition, these projects seriously undermine mattress interests in taking control of the region's energy sector.
      But the Kurds - a topic that, taking into account all those interested, will be solved very difficult.
    2. Lyubopyatov
      Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 12: 45
      +1
      "... our politicians shouldn't ..." Where are they - ours?
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 23 July 2016 14: 39
        +1
        Quote: Lyubopyatov
        "... our politicians shouldn't ..." Where are they - ours?

        That's it! Including in Urkain ...
  3. Teberii
    Teberii 23 July 2016 05: 57
    +3
    Many problems have accumulated, instead of solving them, Erdogan has taken up his own greatness.
  4. Dobrogneva
    Dobrogneva 23 July 2016 06: 10
    +13
    The Commander-in-Chief of the British Navy did not rule out the possibility of a nuclear strike in an interview with a Polish magazine: “we (NATO) give time to change our minds and voluntarily (Crimeans - translator's note) abandon the muddy adventure of membership in the Russian Federation”, end of quote. No comments. Users in the comments express the opinion that the strike will be anonymous, "the rocket just took off from under the water - and Russia is again to blame." The French politician in an interview with The Times: “Obama will not apologize for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the US elite (current, any, it doesn’t matter) will not apologize, she did not know how, she doesn’t, and she’s not going to learn to admit her mistakes in the foreseeable future, she ( the elite of Britain and the United States, approx. Translator) became what it is, creating monsters like the immortal regenerating decentralized network of ISIS, Al Qaeda or the charismatic leader of Hitler, Napoleon, Stalin (?). When they ask me about the future fate of the Russian Federation, I recall the words of my friend said in a personal conversation (Bridlav - etc.): NATO has many plans for a war with Russia, there is a plan to attack in two or three months during the next exercises, there is the plan to completely strangle economically, create a bacteriological threat within the Russian Federation, quarantine and prevent the creation of a new submarine nuclear fleet, provoke Russia to make a mistake and attack within a year, there is a concept of a war with Russia in two to three years and even after five to ten years given increased by The Russian Navy’s potential, there are plans to embroil Russia and China, China and India and drag Russia into it, quarrel everyone in this hemisphere and sell arms in full, arrange a civil war in Russia and attack under the pretext of helping one of the parties to the Russian conflict even without nuclear weapons, but ... NATO has no plan not to attack Russia in general even in the medium term (until the middle of the century), not one, there is no plan to build trade relations with Russia, there is a plan to delay time, strengthen the defense of Britain under the guise of ones of the EU total and look for a pretext to attack mimicking the political dialogue, so he told me, and then he was replaced by Ska ... parotti, lousy wop, where they take these? " End of quote ...
  5. quolta
    quolta 23 July 2016 06: 25
    +2
    (Another element in the construction of a renewed empire is the mighty navy) Something takes doubt that the Turks have a mighty fleet))
    1. crumb
      crumb 23 July 2016 10: 01
      -1
      the Turks have a powerful fleet in relation to Greece and Bulgaria, and in relation to Russia, Ushakov showed that their powerful fleet is worth it.
  6. demchuk.ig
    demchuk.ig 23 July 2016 06: 40
    +7
    Turks have never been friends with us and will not be in the foreseeable future! And you don’t need to flatter yourself with hopes of friendship and partnership because of the immediate benefits!
    1. Curator
      Curator 23 July 2016 09: 09
      -1
      "Bandera" opinion. Perhaps cowardice along with thoughtlessness, but most likely - a provocation diverting from Eurasian goals. But I noticed and warned.
  7. Khariton
    Khariton 23 July 2016 06: 44
    +1
    We will play the Turkish gambit in full ... This is our "joker"!
    1. Smog
      Smog 23 July 2016 07: 51
      +7
      Quote: Chariton
      We will play the Turkish gambit in full ... This is our "joker"!

      But do not tell me how? How are we going to play it, this very Turkish gambit?
      1. Tambov Wolf
        Tambov Wolf 23 July 2016 10: 19
        +3
        As Sherlock Holmes used to say: - "Elementary, Watson." We pay for our pilot, with money given for tomatoes. , something went wrong with the guarantor), in August we will kiss and fraternize, extend the “hand of friendship” to the “fraternal people suffering at the hands of the imperialists.” In the future, we will expect further scammers, as they sometimes write here with popcornos on the couch. one rake is the fate of "our power".
        1. Lyubopyatov
          Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 12: 50
          +2
          The slogan "Down with the capitalist ministers!" rather weak for today's Russia. We must demand the domestic government!
        2. Air defense SSH
          Air defense SSH 23 July 2016 15: 37
          +1
          What nonsense ?! No one is going to cuddle with Turkey and there are different meanings in everything. A gas pipeline to sell gas to the Turks, and if we need to turn it off. A nuclear power plant to push our fuel and if we need to not sell. It’s called to make it addictive, and if you don’t do it now, then, as they say, a holy place is never empty ...
          But loot for tourist trips is everyone’s own business, and on the part of GDP, I think a pure Troll of Erdogan does not mean to marry ... Therefore, yours: we’ll spend, build, take loot, kiss and chat, we will extend a hand of friendship only for you, but it doesn’t affect me in any way.
          You need to ride to the Crimea, Sochi, Kavminvody, Kamchatka
  8. garnik64
    garnik64 23 July 2016 06: 52
    +7
    It seems that we all know the history of our relations, but we stubbornly go for rapprochement. Someone needs it. Our Turkish pilot has already shot down our plane, having made a decision on his own, and they have been hammering this news over the media for several days.

    The influence of the Turks on the Turkic population of Russia is enormous. The stronger the embrace with the Turks, the faster the collapse of the Russian Federation. Here, in some prisons of Tatarstan, there are competitions in reading the Koran. It is clear that they are rewarding for this. But what should a Christian do? Or maybe in all the prisons of Russia a Bible reading contest can be held?
    1. Curator
      Curator 23 July 2016 10: 02
      0
      Did you really collect our State to cling to it with your non-Russian hands and designs? or Tatars? Huh?
      This is you the recent Tatarstan from the Carpathians and the Pacific Ocean are going to plow? What hangover is that? You did not build and you do not destroy the country and our State.
      1. garnik64
        garnik64 23 July 2016 15: 28
        0
        You are directly repeating the words of your mufti Tajuddin Talgat Safich. Which predicted in 50 years to Islamize Russia. (It was during the Chechen war.)

        The empire was created by the Russians, and all the conquered peoples fought in its army, as happens in the construction of empires.

        As you understood, you are a Tatar. I respect Kazan Tatars. I had friends, a girl. I can’t say anything bad, only good. Somehow, behind the “pipe of peace” (during my student years), an older friend (Turkmen) told me: “You are good people, sorry that Christians. "Probably the same thing I would like to tell you. (just the opposite).
        1. Curator
          Curator 23 July 2016 16: 56
          -1
          Do not smear with snot what you wrote on the "fence" above about the need to destroy the Turkish State - this is TERRORISM. And your tail wagging in front of the Tatars and Turkmens - a purple drum for me. You are a terrorist.
          1. garnik64
            garnik64 23 July 2016 22: 42
            -2
            Have you heard this saying "Carthage must be destroyed!" So “Turkey must be destroyed!” This is the dream of all the peoples who came across it. The Tatars and Turkmens did nothing wrong to me, but the Turks ...

            And you are well done, such unity to us under the holy cross. And someone writes that Turkey has no influence on the Turkic peoples of Russia. It's time to think.
    2. Lyubopyatov
      Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 13: 08
      0
      "... in some prisons of Tatarstan there are competitions in reading the Koran ..." And where are the FSIN and AP looking?
    3. Air defense SSH
      Air defense SSH 23 July 2016 15: 40
      +4
      The influence of Turkey on the Turks is greatly exaggerated, and to mix Muslim traditions with Turkish influence is rubbish ...
      Conduct Bible competitions among convicts, who doesn’t give ?!
  9. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 23 July 2016 07: 35
    +3
    No one is going to throw themselves into Turkish arms. We have clearly identified Turkey's dependence on Russia. Any additional ties, such as the Turkish Stream (if this is not a "wiring" so that they do not pull with Nord Stream 2) are the most severe control levers. Risking the flow of money from tourists is one thing, but if the flow of gas is blocked, a collapse may happen ...
    1. Curator
      Curator 23 July 2016 10: 05
      0
      "The toughest control levers" are always TWO-WAY. Therefore, do not get too carried away by the fact that you will be a director in a puppet theater, or a manipulator of all puppets. The Eurasian Union will have a DIALOGUE and mutually developing interconnected industries.
  10. Evil 55
    Evil 55 23 July 2016 07: 45
    +3
    History teaches us not to make previous mistakes .. Let us hope for the wisdom of the leaders and the sanity of their decisions.
    1. Lyubopyatov
      Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 13: 13
      +1
      Where are the leaders? Please vote: 1) in the Kremlin 2) in Rusnano 3) in the UN 4) in Bilderberg 5) in Fashington.
  11. aleks700
    aleks700 23 July 2016 07: 54
    +1
    it becomes obvious that it would be extremely unreasonable to build a potential adversary of a nuclear power plant or to draw another gas "stream" to it,
    Name an incredible opponent. Cuba? Do not trade at all?
  12. parusnik
    parusnik 23 July 2016 07: 56
    +1
    Russia before the Su-24, really was in the arms of Turkey, thoughtlessly .. Now Turkey is rushing into the arms of Russia .. for there’s no where to go .. But we won’t be different .. They will soon come from the situation as an enemy, my enemy, my friend. .but will remain the enemy ..
  13. semirek
    semirek 23 July 2016 08: 02
    +6
    I think it is not worth starting to do business with Turkey now - the task of Russia is to weaken the Turks by aggravating the Kurdish issue, and not to help Turkey become even stronger. The Russian tsars understood this, but our current leadership is distinguished by a lack of consistency and common sense - the war in Syria is not yet a reason for joy, it can drag on for years like in Afghanistan - the result of the latter is known. I think we are on the verge of collapse altogether, I mean Europe and NATO, since we (Russia) are initially to blame for everything, we are "sent" ridiculous accusations and we stand spat upon, making excuses, we just have to hand over the keys to our apartment and leave the world arena - and how much can we endure?
    1. Curator
      Curator 23 July 2016 10: 09
      -2
      You're wrong . Russian tsars by the name of the Romanovs, and in fact, the German monarchs DURING Turkophobia on Russian society, at the same time not only distorted the History of the country and its Peoples, but also replaced mental aspirations and self-awareness in this world, tried to distort and re-distort.
      1. garnik64
        garnik64 23 July 2016 12: 25
        0
        Kipchaks and Pechenegs were before the Romanovs, while Turks, as descendants, continue the work of their ancestors. The Slavs began to cross the road ... here are 13 wars.
      2. Lyubopyatov
        Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 13: 16
        +2
        We may be wrong, and you are deliberately lying. This is to the Torah Curator.
        1. Curator
          Curator 23 July 2016 16: 59
          -1
          What am I lying to? Be extremely responsible if you answer me, please.
      3. V.ic
        V.ic 23 July 2016 14: 56
        0
        Quote: KuraTor
        Russian tsars by the name of the Romanovs, but in reality - German monarchs

        But what about! Well, purebred Germans!
        - Mikhail (Fedorovich) - this is of course Michael Fridrihovich (m ... er .. m Kura Tor, well, tell me the last name! And also from which vetvi Habsburg?!
        - Alexei Mikhailovich - this is of course ... (work Kura Tor, work with brains!).
        - Fedor Alekseevich - of course ... (work Kura Tor, strain your brains!).
        - Pyotr Alekseevich - this is of course ... (well, confess, reveal the secret to us as a syri, from where and from which branch was this hamburger!).
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 23 July 2016 15: 20
          +2
          Well, actually, I knew that the last direct heir was Elizaveta Petrovna. But starting with Peter the Third, this is the Holstein-Gottorp dynasty.
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 24 July 2016 07: 06
            +1
            Quote: Bakht
            the last direct heir was Elizaveta Petrovna. But starting with Peter the Third, this is the Holstein-Gottorp dynasty.

            ... the last direct heiress ...
            So the divine Romanov punished, and at the same time Russia!
        2. Curator
          Curator 23 July 2016 17: 18
          0
          Do not exaggerate. After the death of Boris Godunov, and it was precisely the death after poisoning, the established nobility of Muscovy (boyars and princes) wanted guarantees that the tribes and tribes controlled by them would not throw them off their necks. Before my eyes was an example of the ideological and military victory of the tycoons in Poland, who acted according to the manuals of the Catholic Church. Ever since the death of Ivan the Terrible, the ELITE has been struggling for development paths and development priorities, and the appointment of Mikhail Romanov as ZIC CHAIRMAN under the government, which determined everything, is incontrovertible. Who killed Godunov? Germans. Why was Godunov killed? For attracting the British to the State and transferring unthinkable privileges to them in trade, and not only. The actions of the German diaspora in our country since then have been aimed at permanently displacing the British from the geopolitical interests of Muscovy and the subsequent Empire. Who silenced the murder of Godunov by the Germans? The Germans themselves, later, during Peter the Great, filled all, absolutely ALL ORIGINAL SCIENTIFIC SCHOOLS. And where is our story now? Tricky question...
  14. Yak28
    Yak28 23 July 2016 08: 05
    +3
    I remember when the Soviet Union and communist ideology and history collapsed, it was poured on the TV screens, the Russian leadership decided that now both Turkey and the USA and other Western countries are friends and allies to us. Russia was actively disarmed, obeyed American advisers, the poor-minded president was an alcoholic having fun. as it should. Russia turned back to the west and thought that it would be kissed, and it was blown to its ears, that’s such gratitude from the Western countries for abandoning communist ideology, the collapse of the USSR and the Warsaw Pact. to bargain with NATO countries, and with Turkey in particular, as the Turks shot down a plane, so Putin immediately got pink glasses and from friends Turkey and Erdogan instantly turned into enemies. wink it’s only a pity that something comes to our government. someone must perish.
  15. Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 23 July 2016 08: 30
    +1
    After such a discussion of relations with Ankara, one can speak only in the context of how many “Caliber” may be required to destroy the Sinop Naval Base.


    Only in this context is it worth talking with Turkey.
  16. kagorta
    kagorta 23 July 2016 08: 36
    +2
    All the same, what kind of people you are blinded. Or like bulls. They saw a red rag and immediately steam from the nostrils. More flexible and thinner. Like Putin laughing What we have now. Erdogan apologized, in addition, the pilot turned out to be "not democratic". What ours did. They just opened the door. Run Erdogan, and the corridor outside the door will be long and Erdogan will still have to run along this corridor. There are no charters, no tourists. Not many of their idiots, who rushed to Turkey, easy on their feet, were brought up with a coup. And now they are expecting compensation from the Turks for the family and the cost of the plane, and they will receive it. But you can't drive the rat into a corner, it needs to leave the corridor for retreat. And Erdogan must be allowed to keep his face. He is of course the enemy, but now we need to trade with everyone with whom we can. We now have a war with the United States, not childish, but very severe, and the United States has not yet tightened all the screws for us (like Iran, for example). The fewer fronts we have, the better.
    Learn from Putin, he is a genius how to breed. wink
    1. Curator
      Curator 23 July 2016 10: 17
      0
      Putin is not as shallow as you imagine... Leave the divorce on "bullshit" or on "coffee grounds" to pseudo fortune-tellers and gypsy swindlers. If Turkey and the Russian Federation move towards the creation of the Eurasian Union of States, ... then exactly our Old World, wise with a millennial culture of fulfilling Monotheism, will establish its own "pass", its "osse", its own ethical and financial arbitration, such as the Court, its IMF and development institutions.
      We will bury the USA with England ON THE SECOND DAY OF CREATION OF THE EURASIAN UNION from the Mediterranean Sea to the Pacific Ocean ... on the second day.
    2. Tambov Wolf
      Tambov Wolf 23 July 2016 10: 24
      +2
      While you are being bred with a juvenile, raising the retirement age, with a communal apartment going to someone unknown, with child donation and other delights. A genius divorce of a great "genius". Although I may not be right, because the king is good, but boyars, damn it, and etc.
    3. Lyubopyatov
      Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 13: 19
      0
      On the rating you need to breed.
  17. Bakht
    Bakht 23 July 2016 08: 43
    +9
    Suppose there is no Turkey. In its place there is Kurdistan (an American project), Something small, like Anatolia (led by the pro-American military), the bases of Turkey were destroyed by caliber. At IN, everyone throws bonnets and rejoices.

    What is the joy, who can explain to me? Will the Russian base appear on the banks of the Bosphorus? Or will NATO ships not plow the expanses of the Black Sea? What is the interest of the Russian Federation in the collapse of Turkey?

    I do not accept Erdogan for the simple reason that it was his policy that led to the crisis in Turkey and I will not tire of repeating that his policy is leading to the collapse of Turkey. The rope has been crying over him for a long time. But this is Erdogan himself. The destruction of Turkey as a state will not bring any dividends to the Russian Federation. And the neighbors too. And all the neighbors at once. So both the article and the comments are not entirely clear to me. Although I try not to put cons, in this case I did. Yes and the name is some strange What "throw" is Turkey preparing for? Not to fat, I would live.

    Regarding the long history ... Probably the Franco-German relations had an equally ancient history of wars. Or Anglo-French. Or Russian-German. But you need to live now. The Germans destroyed the Jews, and now Israel supplies flowers to Germany. Including memorial complexes in concentration camps. The French were in Moscow, and the Russians in Paris. Someone is building Russian-French relations, referring to 1812? 200 years between the others passed.

    Emotions are good in the kitchen. When talking like "Brian's head. I wouldn't put a finger in his mouth"
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Curator
      Curator 23 July 2016 10: 49
      +2
      Erdogan is breaking the direct dependence of his country on the United States. You must understand that the people of Turkey are also tired of the fact that the "voynuks" engaged by America in the Turkish Army have erased Ataturk's principles to holes, and are already prostituted for them.
    3. garnik64
      garnik64 23 July 2016 11: 13
      0
      When creating Kurdistan, we have two irreconcilable enemies who will be occupied by each other.
      A base on the shores of the Bosphorus may well appear if the Greeks play along.
      Erdogan supports the people, in his rule, Turkey has achieved high indicators in the economy. Even the weakening of the position of Turkey to the Russian people and all neighbors except you.
      Do you want to compare Europe with Turkey? Germans tipto the Jews for their atrocities. And Turkey? And she waged 13 wars with Russia, it says something to you.
      As long as Turkey exists, Russia will not rest, not only on the southern borders, but also on the territory of Russia.
      1. Curator
        Curator 23 July 2016 11: 32
        -7
        High opinion here is generally superfluous. And I ask the moderators to pay attention to the repeated TERRORIST posts of the user garnic with calls to destroy the Turkish State with 80 million people.
        1. garnik64
          garnik64 23 July 2016 12: 30
          +1
          Let's respect each other, all the same we are on the Russian site and not on the Cavarian.
          1. Curator
            Curator 23 July 2016 17: 47
            +1
            Respect without hypocrisy and low maturity. And without terrorist calls. Turks are my kindred people. Unlike you - a politically invented porridge from gypsies, Assyrians, African rude people and other Tajiks.
        2. Lyubopyatov
          Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 13: 24
          +1
          With several nations amounting to 80 million. So that!
      2. Bakht
        Bakht 23 July 2016 14: 58
        +2
        You can tell fairy tales about high performance in the economy and trust the yellow press. In reality, this "high economy" broke down in 6 months. Unlike the not so high economy of Iran, which has been under sanctions for almost 10 years.

        Everything will be bad. Just because of remoteness, Azerbaijan will suffer less. Or do you also think from the yellow press that Azerbaijan exists only at the expense of Turkey?

        Turkey has been around for almost 100 years. Modern Turkey. Since 1920, how many wars were on the southern borders of the USSR? If you don’t know, I can tell you - zero point, hell of a tenth. Again mossy myths.

        A base on the shores of the Bosphorus is not expected in the foreseeable future. Even if Turia falls apart - it will not be.

        So live in reality.
    4. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 23 July 2016 12: 57
      +1
      "Regarding the long history ... Probably Franco-German relations had" ////

      I completely agree with you. There is nothing to drag the past. Gotta take a look
      to the future. All crimes have a statute of limitations determined by their life span.
      committed. Or the offender was punished, or died of old age. On his children
      father's crime does not extend. So is the relationship between states.
      They must be built from scratch, without delving into the old showdown.
  18. masterovoy
    masterovoy 23 July 2016 09: 53
    +2
    I agree with the author in many ways, Turkey, for Russia and not only, always holds a knife in her bosom, it’s worth only a little, a little to show its weakness and it will be in your back.
  19. aba
    aba 23 July 2016 10: 57
    +1
    historical experience must be remembered, once again thoughtlessly rushing into the arms of Ankara.

    But for me it remains a mystery that the society, condemning those who went on vacation to Turkey, somehow overlook the "Turkish Stream" and the nuclear power plant that we are building to the Turks. That is, the government and the elites are not subject to jurisdiction in our country, unlike the average person?
    It’s better to bury the ax of war, of course, but we should not give concessions at all: she died so she died! And this will be the minimization of losses today, as opposed to if we fulfill our obligations. Money doesn’t smell, but you don’t need to lose your head either!
  20. Lelek
    Lelek 23 July 2016 11: 52
    0
    [The Russian leadership has no illusions about what Erdogan Turkey is. And it consciously goes to some reputational losses within the country for the sake of reconciliation with the new "Sultan." Apparently, at this point in time, such reconciliation is indeed imperative.]

    Turkey is our neighbor and will not relocate anywhere. So, what you want, you don't want to, but you will have to look for compromises, while you do not have to trust the leadership of this country 100% (just in case, keep the drins behind your back). The fact that Turkey has now fallen out of the wake of the United States does not mean anything (it remains a NATO member) and what will happen after the change of power in the United States - only God knows, but the current "blackest" will return to the beloved baobab.
  21. Stinger
    Stinger 23 July 2016 12: 06
    -1
    I want to get into a dispute, but I don’t know anything about Turkey. Not a single scientist, poet, writer, what kind of industry is there - nothing. It is only known that the father of O. Bender was a Turkish citizen and died in terrible agony. Therefore, I carefully read the comments of our couch political scientists. But I can’t understand the Turkish soul. Erdogan is reminiscent of a failed babtist who ate his own greatness. As the pique vests said: - I wouldn’t put a finger in his mouth.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 23 July 2016 13: 05
      +2
      If they don’t know anything about something, they open, for starters, a Wikipedia page and find out wink

      By the way, who are the "Babtists"? Those who squeeze women? belay
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 23 July 2016 15: 08
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        If they don’t know anything about something, they open, for starters, a Wikipedia page and find out

        Fi ... An imposed opinion, edited many times by the "chosen ones." Better the search line, it's more honest.
        Quote: voyaka uh
        By the way, who are the "Babtists"? Those who squeeze women?

        This is shorthand: "womena artistka "...
  22. Lyubopyatov
    Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 12: 14
    0
    The author says "nation", meaning the "Ottoman Empire".
  23. akudr48
    akudr48 23 July 2016 12: 18
    +2
    German firms, in modern terms, “threw” Soviet Russia, and after some time happened on June 22, 1941. It is this historical experience that must be remembered, once again thoughtlessly rushing into the arms of Ankara.

    This is a correct statement, and Turkey will once again be happy to "throw" and stick a knife in the back of the "partner" that Russia once again wishes to become, having forgiven both the pilots and allowing tomatoes.

    And most importantly - access for shirnarmass to the resorts of Turkey, to free drinks and "European" service. They do not want to go to Crimea, but they would gladly go to Turkey, forgetting about the downed plane, explosions and coups in the resort area.
    Here it’s already difficult to blame the Russian leadership for those who are weak-minded and poorly remembered among Russians are enough to fill the empty Turkish beaches.

    Such shirnarmasses, ready to sing and dance for 5 kopecks, are the main problem of the country.
    1. Lyubopyatov
      Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 13: 28
      0
      And who brings up such masses? Yeltsin, post-Yeltsin, television and Minister Livanov (former Fursenko).
    2. Bakht
      Bakht 23 July 2016 15: 07
      +1
      Enlighten the unreasonable. How "German firms" threw "Soviet Russia". What are the facts that Germany did not fulfill the agreement.
    3. V.ic
      V.ic 23 July 2016 15: 11
      0
      Quote: akudr48
      among pуssiyan

      Apply to these gni.am Elson's "scattered".
  24. denchik1977
    denchik1977 23 July 2016 12: 31
    -3
    No one is going to throw themselves into Turkey's arms after Erdogan apologized for the downed SU-24, because it’s just that a more “subtle” game is being played right now, the meaning of which is that “Sultan Erdogan” was made aware of the following: firstly, the return of Russian tourists to the resorts of Turkey, like any other cooperation between our countries, can be terminated at any time, and secondly, with regard to the Sykes-Picot agreement, according to which the Russian Empire was to receive about 30% of the territories in the East Turkey and control over the Black Sea straits, today Turkey and Erdogan personally must understand that in certain scenarios, it is possible that Turkey will simply disappear from the political map of the world, thirdly, and this is the most important thing, Erdogan must learn another simple the truth - if at some point he decides to play aggravated with Russia again, then his head will simply be turned off, like a mad dog.
    In addition, Russia should be attentive to the possibility of accepting those Turkish citizens who have already lost their position in society due to Erdogan's promotion of the "flywheel of mass repression", because our country is not accommodated by people who are professionals in their field, be it scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, entrepreneurs, or the military. It is also necessary to create the most comfortable environment for those citizens of Turkey and Russia who have created families with children. Provide, if desired, the relocation of such families to the territory of Russia. Ps: Many nowadays talking about the events in Turkey forget the fact that the Turks settled on the territory of the Byzantine Empire conquered by them, and thus they should remember that in a certain scenario they can be "thrown out" to the places where they came from. namely, in the hot sands of the deserts of the Arabian Peninsula. True, this raises the question: are they really needed there at all ?!
    1. Lyubopyatov
      Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 13: 32
      0
      Only they came not from the Arabian desert, but from the deserts of Eurasia. And they learned to live sedentary with the Byzantines, from whom they learned the name of the street and much more.
      1. Bakht
        Bakht 23 July 2016 15: 05
        +1
        Interesting knowledge in history. Who came from where and who taught whom. Let's say the ancient Turks mastered the smelting of steel and the nomads gave the world trousers. And the Arabs gave the world numbers. And the Chinese are gunpowder, and the Egyptians are papyrus. So what? When we throw out "where they came from", then we should justly take off our pants. There is nothing to use other people's achievements :-)
        1. garnik64
          garnik64 23 July 2016 15: 50
          0
          Are you mocking the readers. Ancient Türks? Somewhere around the XV — XIV centuries. BC e. The iron smelting and non-carbonization technique was developed in the Caucasian foothills in Urartu.
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 23 July 2016 16: 01
            +1
            What are you saying ....
            Low carbon iron .... And is that all you could answer? Isaac Asimov read ... The ancient Turks possessed the secret of hardening. and the most remarkable weapons belonged to the ancient Turks from Altai.

            Do not tell me the root of the famous surname Demirchan? :-) Directly from Urartu or all the same from the Turks?
            1. garnik64
              garnik64 23 July 2016 16: 57
              0
              I didn’t write about Urartu and not my fellow tribesmen. And in order to harden it is necessary to melt it. And compare the centuries. And where does the surname Demirchan? You have your own interpretation, we have our own.
              1. Bakht
                Bakht 23 July 2016 17: 04
                0
                Again little things and details instead of serious discussion. The Iron Age began BC. But not in the 14th century BC And the iron was of poor quality. Therefore, even the Romans had gladiuses of bronze. There were also iron ones. Industrial production of iron weapons began in Altai. You can argue ad infinitum and cite different opinions and authors. This does not cancel the main point. Your writings are superficial, and as noted here by extremism. With which I completely agree.
                1. andj61
                  andj61 23 July 2016 23: 40
                  0
                  Quote: Bakht
                  Again little things and details instead of serious discussion. The Iron Age began BC. But not in the 14th century BC And the iron was of poor quality. Therefore, even the Romans had gladiuses of bronze. There were also iron ones.

                  You shouldn't have cited the Romans as an example - the Romans had exactly the Bronze Age, and they could not make high-quality iron products, and could not manufacture steel in any form. But the "backward" Germans and Slavs - quite themselves made decent swords and spears from steel. So the technology of the Romans was clearly lame. And the Romans really had iron gladiuses, however, only at the decline of the empire. At this time, the Romans themselves and even the Italians were practically gone in the Roman legions, and legions were recruited from the same Germans, Celts, Slavs ... And they used weapons from their familiar material.
                  1. Curator
                    Curator 24 July 2016 01: 10
                    -1
                    Neither the Slavs nor the Germans had steel swords before the Huns arrived in Scandinavia and northern Europe. Türkirman - these Huns called themselves, and the ancient FUTARK, the originals of the inscriptions of the Scandinavians, written in archaic runic letters, are easily read by Turkic linguists. It was the Huns who brought the production technology of steel hardened swords to the environment of the ancient Germans, together with their Law and Monotheism. Monotheism of Tengrian did not gain a foothold among the Scandinavians, they preferred to deify the leader of the Türks, the ancient Uldin (Odin), who brought the Türks to Scandinavia, but note to yourself - Tengrian equilateral crosses were already carved on the gravestones of the princes of Scandinavia in 4-6 centuries! (see sources) So ... we can make assumptions that the Scandinavian elite continued the traditions of Tengrianism.
                2. garnik64
                  garnik64 24 July 2016 20: 40
                  0
                  Read carefully, it is written somewhere around the 15-14th centuries BC (in Roman numerals.)
          2. Curator
            Curator 23 July 2016 17: 39
            0
            Read the Sumerian "10 tables of the creation of the World", which are preserved in the Aakkadian version, they directly state: "The only people who knew metallurgy BEFORE the flood were the Tatar-speaking Sumerians. Low-carbon iron was melted in many centers of civilizations on the Planet, in China in the 3rd century BC, in Assyria about 3000 years ago, but the Assyrians simply ADOPTED the already existing technology from the Akkadians, and the Huns brought this technology to China. So I shake your noodles off my ears.
        2. Curator
          Curator 23 July 2016 17: 43
          0
          The numbers called ARABIC are actually Sumerian, and they came to the Semitic-Arabs through Akkadians. All figures are Sumerian - it is the NUMBER of ANGLES (wedges). the unit has one angle - 1, the two of the two angles - Z, the three of 2 angles -3, the four of 3 angles -4, the five - 4 angles, and so on up to 5.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 23 July 2016 23: 31
            0
            Very interesting. Thank.
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 23 July 2016 23: 46
              +1
              Of course it’s interesting. Although the Internet claims that these are Indian numbers. But in Europe they are known as Arabic numerals. Otherwise, they would now think what MMXVI means

              winked

              In general, before the Renaissance, light came from the East.
          2. corporal
            corporal 24 July 2016 02: 41
            0
            Quote: KuraTor
            the unit has one angle - 1, the two of the two angles - Z, the three of 2 angles -3, the four of 3 angles -4, the five - 4 angles, and so on up to 5.

            What about the seven and nine?
  25. Region-68
    Region-68 23 July 2016 13: 09
    +1
    There is a reason for Turkey's rapprochement with Russia and Iran! The failed military coup was directed against Erdogan by his overseas "friends." NATO has its part in this.
    It would be logical for Erdogan to open the border for migrants to travel to the EU. This will be his correct answer for the attempt on his life and for the attempt to break up Turkish statehood.
    Let migrants go to the rich and well-fed EU, which NATO destroyed and robbed their countries and killed the peoples of these countries. And let migrants being in the EU demand a trial of those politicians who robbed, killed and destroyed their countries.
    Erdogan has the moral right to help the Arab (Muslim) people in this way.
    Both countries can benefit from rapprochement between Turkey and Russia, between which there is a centuries-old relationship. The downed Russian attack aircraft is most likely a planned action in the US and NATO. So do not flog a fever in the international relations of the two countries.
    All that God does is all for the better!
    1. Lyubopyatov
      Lyubopyatov 23 July 2016 13: 34
      0
      May God squeeze the mind and will of the Russian "elite" into a single fist! Amen.
    2. V.ic
      V.ic 23 July 2016 15: 16
      0
      Quote: Region-68
      NATO has its own Communion.

      You need to distinguish between the sacrament (this is in the church) and participation (this is what you might have in mind).
      Quote: Region-68
      All that God does is all for the better!

      Are you sure that everything is by God's will? Do you think the Evil One is not capable?
  26. iouris
    iouris 23 July 2016 13: 37
    0
    Turkey's return to NATO's "stall" through a military coup is very likely in the near future. To preserve its independence, Turkey must withdraw from NATO and take a course towards building a socially oriented secular state (socialism). The pro-Western orientation of the ruling class in Russia makes rapprochement with anti-Western Turkey an unlikely scenario. The USSR had an alternative project, the Russian Federation does not have its own project. Rapprochement with Turkey is unlikely without changing the vector of development of the Russian Federation. Perhaps the case will end with the disintegration of Turkey and the formation of Oil-rich Kurdistan and Transit Turkestan.
  27. Zomanus
    Zomanus 23 July 2016 14: 05
    +1
    With Turkey, it’s generally interesting.
    They are not our enemies, but they should not be called friends.
    This is me about the current relationship.
    Equal relations, within the framework of domestic decency, nothing more.
    The fact that our domestic dolboklyui rushed to get their olinclusive in the country,
    where the general situation, to put it mildly, does not contribute to calm,
    Well, these are problems exclusively dolboklyuev.
    We can say that natural selection has started.
    And so it’s completely equal relations with Turkey,
    projects are being discussed, general interaction is being established.
  28. v02000
    v02000 23 July 2016 14: 17
    +1
    Maybe many will be offended by me, but Turkey is the same super-regional power as Russia is in this region - the Black Sea-Middle East. Therefore, in my (amateurish opinion) alliance is possible only for a short time ... And it will be like with a pind .. yourself - bring the money, and we’ll spit it out in the salad, and for the sake of spelling we write ... Warm mo ..., water in Antalya and beer.
  29. SCHWERIN
    SCHWERIN 23 July 2016 14: 32
    -1
    I do not understand why the majority of TW users have such pessimism in relations between Russia and Turkey? You listen to political scientists - the same thing.
    Many write - coup fake. Posted by Erdogan. Wow fake! Erdogan was nearly killed. To write such a scenario, you must have a super-super computer, which are not there.
    About a downed plane. Once in the bowels of the army a conspiracy has matured, all the more so has its lump headed. Air Force, why wasn’t it a setup? The rebels, together with the staff, or vice versa, independently conducted this act, substituting Erdogan for the fact.
    Erdogan, did not want to endure this conflict in the information field. And the thing has already been done. The fighters understood the attack on the Russian aerospace forces aircraft - Casus Belli. It was believed that the Russian Federation would attack Turkey. In addition to the US, NATO could do this. There are also many frostbitten. By the way, this already happened when the pan-and-headed Ukrainians shot down a Boeing.
    But the GDP decided to fight differently and the Turkish economy entered a peak. For Erdogan, it was worse than war. Why did Erdogan need such a coup scenario. Is he extreme?
    Cui prodest? Of course the first is GREAT UKRA. But seriously - US and NATO. They dreamed that the Russian Federation would attack Ukrainians. Did not work out. Ukrainians in; jgt for today. West revived Frankinshtein - NATO. Let's go finance. News top. Expenses must be justified.
    Yes, and Erdogan is tired. In the event of an attack by the Russian Federation on Turkey, NATO would not have helped Erdogan, but would not have allowed to defeat Turkey.
    I think that the GDP has experienced analysts who can calculate the moves. Turkey must be set up to cooperate with the Russian Federation and be an ally. As for past wars. States burned Japan with nuclear bombs and nothing, friends.
    1. Grigory Z.
      25 July 2016 07: 19
      0
      Too cool fake I'll send
  30. thinker
    thinker 23 July 2016 16: 12
    +1
    Quote: Nyrobsky
    ... The fact that we are building a nuclear power plant and a gas pipeline there is not only "bad", but also very good. this energetic leash will always give an opportunity to pull up the "sultan". This nuclear power plant cannot operate without our fuel, just as a gas pipe cannot be useful without our gas ...
    Very doubtful. The analogy with Ukraine suggests itself, something is not noticeable the effectiveness of the energy leash. One headache for Russia.hi
  31. Bakht
    Bakht 23 July 2016 16: 32
    +1
    Seriously, the article is incomprehensible. To what cast, where is Turkey rushing? Here the relations of Turkey-USA or Turkey-NATO, Turkey-Russia are not even important. Our world is interconnected. Turkey is the most important player in the Middle East field (or theater of operations, so that it becomes absolutely scary). Any change in this country will echo around. We cannot predict how far these changes will spread. But the neighbors will affect everyone.

    In this case, we will consider relations between Turkey and the Russian Federation (simply because we are on the Russian site). What are the reasons to consider Turkey as an enemy? Over the past 90 years, Russia has not fought with Turkey. There were periods of warming relations before the fraternal, there were periods of cooling before the Cold War. But they never entered the hot phase. In contrast, one can give an example of relations between the Russian Federation and Poland (the war of 1920), Finland, China (incidents in Damansky and Semipalatinsk), with Japan, it is better not to mention Germany at all (27 million dead, thousands of destroyed cities). But with none of these countries such a heat of rejection is not observed. Therefore, hostility is not rooted in politics and not in history, but simply irrational. At the level of the subcortex.

    Now the whole country is being restructured. Not the smallest and not the very last in the area. Will someone benefit? I strongly doubt it. An immediate benefit is possible. But in the future, chaos awaits us all. The emergence of another Islamic country in this region (Saud, Iran, and now also Turkey) will blow up the entire Middle East. If someone rejoices at such a development of events, then ... clever ancestors said "a donkey cannot be proved that he is a donkey, because he is a donkey."

    PS For some reason, it seems to me that the game is not over. Erdogan will be squeezed. Another Caliphate is not needed by anyone.
    PPS With regard to trade relations, they will trade all the same. And the gas pipeline and the nuclear power plant. and whatever you like. And even tourism. Why do Russian tourists in Turkey dislike? On Tahrir Square in Egypt, in the midst of the rallies, there were Russian tourists with a poster "Let's give soot to Tutankhamun" :-). Whoever went to rest doesn't care what they shout in the square.
  32. Geodezist33
    Geodezist33 23 July 2016 18: 11
    +1
    Something I did not understand the commentators. When were we "friends" with the Turks? When did they "kiss"? They had to pile up under the tsar-father, and the Armenians would be left without genocide (+1 genocidal (proud) people).
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 23 July 2016 18: 47
      0
      One more is genocidal .... Well, I won’t argue. Just in the 20s and were friends.
    2. ver_
      ver_ 24 July 2016 12: 18
      0
      Once the biblical Moses was called the Prince of Tver .. and his deeds became the Bulgarian kingdom and the Ataman Empire, and still in the museum of Istanbul = Constantinople his banner with a cannon hanging on a banner .. But only then the empire was not Ataman, but Ottoman and Muslim faith .. And how many wars have passed and blood was shed .. And all this is the reason - the baptism of Russia in the 15th century ..
  33. nik1321
    nik1321 23 July 2016 18: 58
    +1
    In principle, the article is not bad, but if you think about it, it’s not in Turkey that it is, but in the attitude of Russia to the so-called partners. Turkey is a special case with a logical conclusion and nothing more. Where the money is invested in a foreign economy. With dubious benefits - who does not believe it, count how many bad debts the USSR has and how much Russia has forgiven. What a generous government and everyone knows why you can’t repay your debts - as if you are giving back your earnings, give examples of such generosity in the West? There, no one forgives anything and wait for many years and finally take their own. At a time when their own economy is in decline, raising someone else’s investing is in my opinion wrong. And when it comes to states hostile to Russia or leading anti-Russian activity under various pretexts, then it is not clear at all - what economic benefits do you expect? The fall of Syria? If Turkey needs a gas pipeline, let it build it, but with its own money. Enough to buy the Mistral - our economy needs money. After the plane shot down by the Turks, it is not clear what should happen to make our government more discriminating in choosing partners.
  34. rruvim
    rruvim 24 July 2016 02: 40
    0
    Do not forget that the territory of modern Turkey is the former Byzantium. Our interests should be not only in Syria but also in Constantinople. Erdogan is a charismatic politician; he does not fit into the pattern of international idiots: Hollande, Merkel, etc. And we must remember that former enemies sometimes become friends. GDR, for example.
    We will wait for the meeting of the Brigadier with Erdogan.
    1. Cobra77
      Cobra77 24 July 2016 05: 15
      0
      Quote: Dobrogneva
      The Commander-in-Chief of the British Navy did not rule out the possibility of a nuclear strike in an interview with a Polish magazine: “we (NATO) give time to change our minds and voluntarily (Crimeans - translator's note) abandon the muddy adventure of membership in the Russian Federation”, end of quote. No comments. Users in comments comment that the strike will be anonymous, “the rocket just took off from under the water - and Russia is again to blame”


      Well, this is bullshit. Nuclear missiles cannot fly anonymously. The launch point and the type of missile, and hence its belonging, will be known even before approaching the target. With all that it implies. If the strike is on a military object, then there is a high probability that there will be just a symmetrical strike of retaliation against the military object of the "partner". If the strike falls on a city like Sevastopol, for example, then it is 99% nuclear war. Possibly limited, not with all the arsenal, but it will be almost impossible to avoid it. It was the Yap who had nothing to answer to the Amers in 45, and the Kwantung Arimia was defeated and there was no hope for anything. And here will be a completely different story. RF is certainly not a Union. It does not possess such military power. But what is there is enough in abundance. So I can hardly imagine an "anonymous" nuclear strike on the territory of the Russian Federation. This is something from the realm of comics ...
      1. ver_
        ver_ 24 July 2016 12: 29
        -1
        .. missiles can also fly anonymously .. Who fart out from under the water, what mattress mats, chi an Englishwoman, chi paddling pools, or greetings from China, India or Pakistan .. Who and when will figure it out .. Still with Boeings understand - no end in sight ..
        1. Grigory Z.
          25 July 2016 07: 18
          0
          What an interesting theory!