Russian hydrogen fuel drone tested in Syria

Russian Aerospace Forces during the antiterrorist operation in Syria tested new Drones on hydrogen fuel, transmits RIA News Post high-level source in the domestic defense industry.

“Those unmanned aerial vehicles that were used in Syria were not all, but there were quite a lot of them, they flew on hydrogen fuel. That is, they can stay in the air for quite a long time, constantly producing hydrogen and allowing the propeller to replenish energy ",

said the source.

He noted that all these UAVs returned safely to Russia. “Now they are studying how the equipment behaved in conditions of hot climate and sandstorms,” the representative of the military-industrial complex added.

Earlier, the United Aircraft Company reported that hydrogen-air fuel cells “allow drones to be airborne for about 40 hours, they are reliable and can work in severe Russian weather conditions, and in the near future will be suitable for use in the Far North”.

Comments

[oldseaman1957]

Before - in Vietnam, now - in Syria!
Running in real combat conditions is expensive.

[Andrey K]

“Those unmanned aerial vehicles that were used in Syria, not all, but there were a lot of them, flew on hydrogen fuel. That is, they can stay in the air for a long time, constantly producing hydrogen and allowing the propulsion to replenish energy ”

And where are our colleagues from the "Promised Land", who beat their heels in the chest, "staking out" for themselves everything that has the abbreviation UAV

[Приговор]

Now the matzo is eaten up and come here to tell us how progressive and advanced they are and how backward we are. At the same time, some Israeli ram, who imagines himself to be a professor, will try here to read a course of chemistry for everyone and surprise us with creative thinking. Want to come faster? Say that the F-35 is a crude city, but they will come running in seconds to instruct you in the cons ..

[Flat5160]

Not expensive, but expensive. So rather.

[Shuttle]

Quote: oldseaman1957

Before - in Vietnam, now - in Syria!
Running in real combat conditions is expensive.

Sorry, but I didn’t understand:

... they can stay in the air for a long enough time, constantly generating hydrogen and allowing the mover to replenish energy ...

Generate hydrogen from which and how much energy to generate?

[Eustace]

http://maxpark.com/community/8/content/4903869 - интересная статья про применение российских боевых роботов в Сирии.

[vv3]

Have you read this article yourself? It describes the operation of the ACS system for the Andromeda D airborne forces. This is a communication and control system in terms of automating decision-making. You read on what base it is collected. This ostentatious, no-one unnecessary iron can be immediately handed over to scrap raw materials. It has its own information sensors, it does not have communication channels with UAVs, with planes and helicopters, with satellites, with radars, but it has a control channel and issuing coordinates of artillery targets .Only where will this system take the coordinates of targets? .... And now on the topic, we all have blind UAVs. They fly like toys for the entertainment of the generals' uncles. They do not give out the coordinates of targets anywhere and to anyone, even to the operators who control them! The primary problem is to make your brains for the UAV and connect them with other systems, at least with means of destruction ..... And engines are needed, but brains used to be!

[Abbra]

Great news! No, it’s not in vain that ours were and will be in theaters of war! Then he thought for a while, and said to himself: yes, well ... You know less - you will fly further. On fossil fuels, for example ...

[Gray brother]

Quote: Abbra

. The less you know, the further you fly. On fossil fuels, for example ...

Probably means "Inspector-1"

http://nampuom-pycu.livejournal.com/148506.html

[Alexey-74]

Everything is right - the equipment becomes the best only in the real conditions of hostilities .... well, about new developments in general, as they say, this is an ideal option to immediately break in in hostilities

[vv3]

Our UAVs do not provide target coordinates in real time, what gets better? Moreover, we do not have systems that can accept this information, even if it appears. Automated control systems such as ESU TZ "Constellation" and "Andromeda-D" are useless, outdated stuff for the Airborne Forces. Not just rubbish, but expensive, We, under the guise of the necessary systems, release illiquid assets and let billions down the drain. Who will be responsible for this? The scandals with the Vostochny cosmodrome and Defense Minister Serdyukov are simply ridiculous against this background, both in terms of money and consequences ... Thunder will soon break out.

[Baloo]

Respect to the creators. Glory to Russia.

[Mihalich17]

Glory to Russia! (spelled out, comrade.)
No offense! ;)))

[nakhtigalsif]

O_o ... No offense!;))) ... But minus ...

[chunga-changa]

As usual, the most informative part of the interview was cut off. Although the solution is interesting. There, most of the time a conventional engine runs on fuel, and in the target area, to reduce visibility, they switch to an electric motor that is powered by an electrochemical fuel cell. Apparently this suits the military more than the available domestic batteries. Although I think that if we produced compact and powerful lithium-ion batteries, they would most likely use them. Surprisingly, it’s easier for us to make a good hydrogen fuel cell than a good battery, although for the rest of the world it’s the exact opposite.

[Mihalich17]

There is a lot, buddy, Chung-Chang
What the "Other World" cannot understand in us! :)))
From a drone "on hydrogen" to a Tank,
We can constantly SURPRISE !!!

[Maxom75]

And do not remind me how quickly the battery of a smartphone runs out in the cold? And now the freezing point of hydrogen? Now compare and tell me again about the backwardness of the hydrogen engine.)))

[Professor]

Quote: chunga-changa

There, most of the time a conventional engine runs on fuel, and in the target area, to reduce visibility, they switch to an electric motor that is powered by an electrochemical fuel cell.

I doubt it. A fuel cell generates a lot of heat. It is preferable to use it far from the target, and above the target go on the battery.

[chunga-changa]

Quote: professor

Fuel cell generates a lot of heat.

Much more than ICE?
The fuel cell is used because there is no production of the necessary batteries.

[Professor]

Quote: chunga-changa

Much more than ICE?

Much more than a battery.

Quote: chunga-changa

The fuel cell is used because there is no production of the necessary batteries.

And fuel cells are also made of bourgeois components and on bourgeois equipment ... The reason is not this, but in the ratio of energy produced to overall dimensions.

[chunga-changa]

Do you understand the difference between "make from bourgeois components and bourgeois equipment ... "and"no production required batteries ".

[Rom14]

Yes, even let it fly on a rubber motor, the main thing is that the gunners of the most accurate weapons do not die for the destruction of the Basmachi ...

[Professor]

That is, they can stay in the air for quite a long time, constantly generating hydrogen and allowing the propulsion to replenish energy ”,

Indirectly not "producing", but still "consuming" hydrogen.

A hydrogen fuel cell generates electricity during an electrochemical reaction in which the atoms of the hydrogen supplied under pressure decompose into electrons and protons. Electrons enter the external circuit, an electric current is created. Then the protons pass through the membrane where oxygen and electrons combine with them. The only byproduct of this reaction is water vapor and heat.

[Gray brother]

Quote: professor

Indirectly not "generating", all the same "consuming" hydrogen.

What prevents first producing hydrogen, and then consume it?

[Professor]

Quote: Gray Brother

What prevents first producing hydrogen, and then consume it?

Physics interferes however.
Which of the hydrogen production methods are you going to stick into the drone?
steam conversion of methane and natural gas;
coal gasification;
electrolysis of water;
pyrolysis;
partial oxidation;
biotechnology.

[Abbra]

And firewood, for example ???

[Professor]

Directly on charcoal.

[Gray brother]

Quote: professor

Which of the hydrogen production methods are you going to stick into the drone?

I’m not going to. But the Institute of Problems of Chemical Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences is going to - ask them.

[Professor]

Quote: Gray Brother

I’m not going to. And here the Institute of Problems of Chemical Physics RAS is going to - ask them

This is the journalists in the article confused.

PS
Professor Boris Rubinsky created a battery working on ... boiled potatoes.
check here

[Gray brother]

Quote: professor

This is the journalists in the article confused.

Which article?

“A part of our system is a gas cylinder into which hydrogen is injected under a pressure of 300 bar. The weight of the cylinder is only a few kilograms, but the military, who got acquainted with the sample, had comments about the safety of handling this cylinder. The fact is that it is really explosive, and in case of careless handling, or in case of emergency, it can explode.

True, this should be a very careless treatment and a very emergency. I will explain: during the tests, one of our drones fell from a height of 200 meters, but no explosion occurred, although, of course, this case can be considered isolated. So, we were set the task of creating something new, and we are already working on it. The new fuel cell will dispense with a tank at all! It will be replaced by a chemical source of hydrogen. "

[Professor]

Quote: Gray Brother

Which article?

In the discussion. The drone consumes hydrogen, but does not produce it.

[Gray brother]

Quote: professor

In the discussion. The drone consumes hydrogen, but does not produce it.

Well so, it's solved.

[Cananecat]

Alas ... The professor of rights, we have not yet come up with a compact mobile installation producing hydrogen. And those that can’t fly. Otherwise, it would be a perpetual motion machine. Since air consists mainly of nitrogen and oxygen, the apparatus should be charged with water to produce hydrogen.

[Riv]

There is a primitive solution: we refuel the airship with hydrogen. Lifting power provided, fuel for engines too. It does not fly fast, but it can stay in the air for a very long time. And no fuel cells worth hundreds of dough and dangerous to operate.

Do you like the solution? There is even easier. Fill the same airship with methane. It is also lighter than air. Ballons to make generally unmeasured volume and fly even around the globe.

Well, why the heck then hydrogen? The correct answer: nanotechnology is needed to cut loot.

[Riv]

Also a discovery for me. I can at least make a battery out of snot. :)

[Abbra]

Before going to bed, a guy named NANO should come to Chubais. And strictly ask: - Well, what?

Chubais crap one's pants in horror. If the look of a dude named ANAS flashes a harsh expression on the face of the GDP.

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: professor

Quote: Gray Brother

What prevents first producing hydrogen, and then consume it?

Physics interferes however.
Which of the hydrogen production methods are you going to stick into the drone?
steam conversion of methane and natural gas;
coal gasification;
electrolysis of water;
pyrolysis;
partial oxidation;
biotechnology.

Especially for you "professor", otherwise YOU either did not find, or hide from the readers the true state of affairs in the production of safe sources of hydrogen. Here is the link to the Inenergy website - http://inenergy.eu/
Here is another link to one of the articles - http://inenergy.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/SpravkaEnergin.pdf
And here is the video on Russian television:

[Professor]

Quote: Алексей_К

Especially for you "professor", otherwise YOU either did not find, or hide from the readers the true state of affairs in the production of safe sources of hydrogen.

You, as always, are not in the subject. Does anyone argue that fuel cells are produced in Russia? It is about what elements consume hydrogen, not produce his. It's all early, as if your Lada would not consume gasoline, but produce it.

[MACCABI-TLV]

Quote: professor

It's all early, as if your Lada would not consume gasoline, but produce it.

progress has come, only to this!
Volvo XC90 learned to “steal” energy from other cars.
http://motor.ru/news/2016/04/08/hwrobbery/

[Professor]

Quote: MACCABI-TLV

Volvo XC90 learned to “steal” energy from other cars.

The same is news to me. The Philistines have been stealing energy for decades, and they themselves are stealing Volvo no less.

[Alex_Tug]

Fylystynts have been stealing energy for decades
Like Ukrainians, gas.

[BARKAS]

Quote: professor

Indirectly not "producing", but still "consuming" hydrogen.

Actually, it will be right in this particular case anyway.

[Black Colonel]

Enlightened, thanks.

[Elephant]

Maybe it's time for the domestic auto industry to introduce new hydrogen technologies? Or, as always, we will observe the innovations of our so-called. "partners"?

[Muvka]

Quote: Elephant

Maybe it's time for the domestic auto industry to introduce new hydrogen technologies? Or, as always, we will observe the innovations of our so-called. "partners"?

And what's the point in hydrogen engines? In addition to clean air in huge cities.

[Riv]

But no. Hamsters are not familiar, but hydrogen still needs to be obtained somewhere. In industry, it is obtained either by methane conversion or by electrolysis (in the production of alkali, hydrogen is generally a by-product). But in the first case, hydrogen requires thorough cleaning, and in the second - cheap electricity. And in any (any, Karl!) Case, the energy spent on hydrogen synthesis is greater than that which can be obtained from burning this hydrogen.

That is, in order to fill the car with hydrogen, you must first burn about five times as much methane. So isn’t it easier to fill the tank with the same methane, which will be an order of magnitude safer in operation than hydrogen?

[Muvka]

Quote: Riv

But no. Hamsters are not familiar, but hydrogen still needs to be obtained somewhere. In industry, it is obtained either by methane conversion or by electrolysis (in the production of alkali, hydrogen is generally a by-product). But in the first case, hydrogen requires thorough cleaning, and in the second - cheap electricity. And in any (any, Karl!) Case, the energy spent on hydrogen synthesis is greater than that which can be obtained from burning this hydrogen.

That is, in order to fill the car with hydrogen, you must first burn about five times as much methane. So isn’t it easier to fill the tank with the same methane, which will be an order of magnitude safer in operation than hydrogen?

I am aware of this, I just like to mock the victims of marketing :)

[Lopatov]

Quote: Riv

But no. Hamsters are not familiar, but hydrogen still needs to be obtained somewhere

Have you heard that in the army this problem was solved as early as the First World War? In the sense, the production of hydrogen in the field.

Quote: Riv

So isn’t it easier to fill the tank with the same methane, which will be an order of magnitude safer in operation than hydrogen?

Not easier. The fuel cell is also noiseless.

[Riv]

In fact, hydrogen production in the field has been mastered much earlier. The world's first aircraft carrier (or rather an aerostat carrier) was built in the Northern United States of America during the Civil War. Surprise Carl! Balloons launched from it were fueled with hydrogen. And hydrogen was obtained by the reaction of an iron fraction with sulfuric acid.
Do you want the same reaction to launch a drone? Flag in hand.

And noiselessness is a relative concept. Modern small internal combustion engines are by no means noisy. Noise is just a matter of having a silencer.

[Maxom75]

And where did you see the Russian auto industry? We only have trucks, and even then 70% of ours, everything else is no longer ours. ((

[Corsair]

Quote: Elephant

Maybe it's time for the domestic auto industry to introduce new hydrogen technologies? Or, as always, we will observe the innovations of our so-called. "partners"?

Hydrogen explodes very well, plus megatech, unlike the same methane or butane, for example, so it’s fraught to use hydrogen cells in cars that beat tens or hundreds every day in cities. It may be much more convenient to adapt a mini / micro gas pipe and generator, but ours cannot make mini / micro gas turbines.

[svd-xnumx]

Hydrogen explodes very well, plus megatech, unlike the same methane or butane, for example, so it’s fraught to use hydrogen cells in cars that beat tens or hundreds every day in cities. It may be much more convenient to adapt a mini / micro gas pipe and generator, but ours cannot make mini / micro gas turbines.

And there is hydrogen embrittlement

hydrogen embrittlement metals and alloys under the influence of hydrogen. Decrease ductility of steel, due to. by the influence of hydrogen, it was discovered by Pfeil in 1926. Later it was established that by c. about. almost all metals and alloys are prone. There are two types of c. O .: conditional. sources of increase. hydrogen content available in ref. metal to k.-l. application of stresses (e.g., in the interaction of hydrogen with impurities or alloying elements in a metal; the formation of methane or water vapor; the accumulation of molecules, hydrogen in discontinuities, etc.); under the influence of sources, arose in a metal with a rise. the hydrogen content under the action of stresses or (and) plastic. deformations (e.g., diffusion of atomic hydrogen in the stress field to defects in the crystalline structure, saturated with hydrogen from the external environment, in particular, as a result of corrosion, etc.). To identify the tendency of metals and alloys to the 1st type of hydrogen embrittlement test. impact strength and toughness are destroyed., and to the 2nd type - retardation tests. destruction and corrosion. cracking;
radiation embrittlement - a decrease in the ductility of metallic. materials as a result of their exposure. R. about. at f = 0,4-J, 5

which, as they say, "with the naked eye" is not visible, and then once, and your car crumbled into "dust"

[Riv]

Well, this is a trifle compared to a cylinder under a pressure of 300 atmospheres. Hydrogen corrosion begins to create problems for steel at temperatures above 300 degrees. If the temperature is lower, then the diffusion of hydrogen into the metal is rather slow and the metal is more likely to crumble due to atmospheric corrosion.

[Riv]

I have doubts about this news. If we are talking about the Inspector drone that flashed in the media, which uses energy generated by a hydrogen fuel cell to move, the idea does not look promising, and here is why.

Hydrogen does not liquefy under normal conditions. It needs to be pumped into the tank under heavy pressure. Therefore, the walls of the container should be sufficiently thick. VERY thick compared to tank capacity. Imagine that the gas tank of your car has 25 mm thick steel walls. Then, you can pump hydrogen into it in an amount sufficient for a long drive. But for an airplane, mass is critical. The entire payload will go to the weight of the cylinder. It is much more profitable to refuel such an element with the same methane. It will work at a higher temperature, but methane is easily liquefied. Now attention! Fuck you catalysts, membranes and inventors, if you have methane in the tank? We put the internal combustion engine and let the drone fly where necessary.

So all this reminds me of a Ukrainian robot shushpantser, who was svidomo to be reacted at about the same time.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Riv

It needs to be pumped into the tank under high pressure

Open "Hydrogen storage methods" in Yandex. Many discoveries await you ...

Quote: Riv

We put the internal combustion engine

And the whole point is lost. Noise.

[Riv]

The noise depends on the presence of a silencer. Just a thing.

[Professor]

Quote: Riv

The noise depends on the presence of a silencer. Just a thing.

A fuel cell or a conventional battery is equally silent. The propeller is making noise. ICE is noisier than the propeller and no muffler will help. Moreover, the muffler negatively affects the efficiency.

[Riv]

True? Well, remove the silencer from your basin and please all the neighbors with increased efficiency. :)

[Verdun]

That is, they can stay in the air for quite a long time, constantly generating hydrogen and allowing the propulsion to replenish energy ”,

And from where is hydrogen constantly generated? It’s not in the air. I am sick of the "talking heads" carrying irresponsible pseudoscientific nonsense. However, this affects not only officials, but also site visitors.

Hydrogen explodes very well, plus megatech, unlike the same methane or butane, for example, so it’s fraught to use hydrogen cells in cars that beat tens to hundreds every day in cities.

Hydrogen does not explode, but burns quickly and well. Otherwise, the same Hindenburg airship did not burn out, but exploded. An explosion occurs only if hydrogen is under high pressure or, having mixed with oxygen in a certain proportion, reaches the concentration of detonating gas. To avoid this, they began to use fuel cells on cars, which completely solve this problem. The use of hydrogen as a fuel is constrained only by its relatively high price, since there are no cheap methods for its production to this day.

[Alex_Tug]

The use of hydrogen as a fuel is limited only by its relatively high price.
For UAVs this is not relevant, we are talking about a maximum of tens of thousands of drones. These are not millions of cars.

[K-50]

One UAV flew into Israel. Two Patriot missiles were fired at it, the result was missed. A fighter was raised to intercept, the result was not intercepted. The UAV returned safely to Syrian territory.

[Alex_Tug]

Information from the series - "it is written on the fence ... and what is behind the fence is unknown."
1) The IDF said no rockets had been fired at the Golan in the incident. (not fired) Jerusalem Post Israel News
2) "Two Patriot air defense missiles were fired toward a drone which infiltrated Israeli airspace in the central Golan Heights. The drone returned to Syria," the Israeli army said. (fired) Reuters
3) The army believes that the UAV was Russian-made, Channel 2 said. (This is Putin) timesofisrael

[igor67]

Quote: K-50

One UAV flew into Israel. Two Patriot missiles were fired at it, the result was missed. A fighter was raised to intercept, the result was not intercepted. The UAV returned safely to Syrian territory.

It’s not clear what happened, the drone flew from the territory of Syria, two missiles went off and immediately exploded, dropping into a kibbutz, the girl was injured in the leg, this kibbutz Aelet ha Shahar is 10 km from the Patriot installations, they did not even reach the Golan Heights, immediately there was information that it was a Russian drone and therefore rebound,

[v.yegorov]

Very well. We are starting to catch up with the backlog.

[Red_Hamer]

and in the near future they will become suitable for use in the Far North. ”

"gentle hint"!

[Mentat]

Quote: Riv

But no. Hamsters are not familiar, but hydrogen still needs to be obtained somewhere. In industry, it is obtained either by methane conversion or by electrolysis (in the production of alkali, hydrogen is generally a by-product). But in the first case, hydrogen requires thorough cleaning, and in the second - cheap electricity. And in any (any, Karl!) Case, the energy spent on hydrogen synthesis is greater than that which can be obtained from burning this hydrogen.

That is, in order to fill the car with hydrogen, you must first burn about five times as much methane. So isn’t it easier to fill the tank with the same methane, which will be an order of magnitude safer in operation than hydrogen?

You describe current level of embodiment scientific discoveries in this field. Further, your statement “no” is incorrect. Hydrogen can already work as an energy mediator, i.e. serve for storage and transportation of energy, its efficiency in this capacity is very high. Household metal-hydrogen batteries are already popular in Finland, for example.

As for the poisoning of the catalysts, enzyme catalysts are not affected by it, their development is progressing at a good pace.

Hydrogen is beneficial in that it is possible to transfer “dirty” energy production to industrial zones, where on an industrial scale it is easier to deal with emissions, centrally maintain and maintain the energy production system in optimal condition. With an increase in conversion efficiency / decrease in cost, this factor will play an increasingly important role. This is the same consideration that gives impetus to the development of electric transport.

In addition, there are special applications.
Read about German and Spanish submarines. For example, submarines of project 212A.

So before you write about marketing and hamsters, do not be them yourself, read at least a couple of articles in scientific journals (you can Wikipedia for a start).

[Riv]

What are the catalysts? Enzymatic ??? Are you by any chance not from Ukraine?

[Mentat]

Quote: Riv

What are the catalysts? Enzymatic ??? Are you by any chance not from Ukraine?

This is you, by chance, from the village of Kukuyevo, where you have not heard about education, the Internet and the ability to type a phrase in Yandex.
Type "immobilized hydrogenase enzyme" and learn how they already wrote to you here in the branch, a lot of new.

The phrase "engineering enzymology", apparently, will generally explode your brain swollen from show-offs with a small outlook.

Why do you climb into your discussion with your own words, even if you are not able to use the search?

[Riv]

Yes, yes, I thought so. Ukraine, for sure. In Russia, too, some people are pretending to believe in nanotechnology. :)

How is it that you will soon begin to receive gas on an industrial scale from dung? Have you already made a vigorous dihydromono oxide bomb? And will the Yatsenyuk fence be completed soon? At least I’ll move out and admire this miracle.