Military Review

The solution to the “problem of transponders” will cost Russia dearly

85
The solution to the “problem of transponders” will cost Russia dearlyOne of the topics of the meeting of the Russia-NATO Council on Wednesday was the famous “transponder problem”. It is in the absence of such devices on the Russian military aviation representatives of NATO reproach our country. President Putin has already instructed to solve this problem, however, the execution of the order will not only take a long time, but will cost a lot.


“Russia has put forward a proposal for security in the airspace in the Baltic Sea. I welcome the signs of a desire to continue taking measures to reduce risks, ”Secretary General of the North Atlantic Alliance Jens Stoltenberg said on Wednesday after a meeting of the Russia-NATO Council in Brussels.

Such arrangements could be the first and important step towards de-escalation, said Russian Ambassador to NATO Alexander Grushko, in turn, after the meeting. “Transponders are the most complicated problem connected with how to regulate military air traffic and civil air traffic. This is not only a problem related to the practice of flying Russian aviation in this region. This is a problem that should be solved in the interaction between civil and military services, ”said Grushko.
Therefore, according to him, the Russian side stated its agreement with the proposal of the Finnish president on flights with transponders included in certain regions of the Baltic Sea. “But taking into account the complexity of the issues and the need to consider a large number of technical aspects, as well as taking into account the differences in practices between different countries - not all NATO countries fly with the transponders turned on. Rather, everyone is flying with transponders turned off, ”said the permanent representative. He noted that this issue requires the participation of specialists. “We want the military experts to come together and agree on this. If such an agreement is reached, this could be the first and very important step towards de-escalation that our partners talk about all the time, ”Grushko said.

Solving the problem of aviation safety over the Baltic Sea “is the small step that is required to defuse tensions and normalize the situation in the Baltic Sea,” added on Wednesday the Finnish Minister of Defense, the namesake of President Jussi Niiniste.

The agreement on aviation flights on the Baltic should be followed by others - on the mutual reduction of military activity and military presence there, in principle, the RIA said in an interviewNews»Chairman of the Federation Council Committee on International Affairs Konstantin Kosachev.

The so-called problem of transponders, that is, systems that allow you to see the location of the aircraft carrying the device by other aircraft and ground services, has a long-standing history. One recent example: in May and June, NATO fighter jets escorted Russian aircraft and fighter jets. The Latvian Defense Ministry then claimed that our planes were flying without a flight plan provided, without a radar system turned on and without support for communication with the flight control center. However, the Russian Ministry of Defense has always stated that there is no violation of international flight rules. Indeed, why should Russian military aviation provide a flight plan to a country that is part of NATO?

Nevertheless, in early July, President Vladimir Putin agreed with the proposal of his Finnish colleague Sauli Niiniste about the need to develop a system of aviation security measures in the Baltic region. As reported last week, the newspaper VIEW, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, following the instructions of the president, ordered to prepare relevant proposals. In particular, it is supposed to use during flights aviation with the included transponders. It was this idea that was discussed, in particular, at the Russia-NATO Council.

In recent years, NATO countries have repeatedly blamed Russia for the fact that its military aircraft are flying near international air routes, allegedly creating a threat to the safety of civilian aircraft. And the main danger allegedly emanates not so much from the military nature of these aircraft, but from the fact that they fly with transponders turned off, which makes them “invisible” to civilian vehicles and civilian air traffic controllers. However, as German journalists found out, the crews of NATO aircraft also do not always include transponders. Newspaper VIEW has already published a detailed analysis of mutual accusations.

Expensive and long

Meanwhile, military experts have already begun to discuss the technical side of a possible agreement with NATO. To equip most of the aircraft of the Baltic naval aviation with transponders, it may take too much money and time, one of the former high-ranking officers of the Russian Air Force warned in an interview to VIEW newspaper.

“Previously, there were no transponders on our military aircraft. We had the CO-69 as an additional identification device - this is an aircraft responder dispatching, and then not at all. The forerunner of modern transponders. Figuratively speaking, the plane is flying, the controller appears on the radar mark. The dispatcher moves the cursor and the flight height, the remaining fuel, the number of the board, the flight, and sometimes the commander’s call sign are displayed on the screen. In general, the main parameters. If ODS responds, then this is our board, Russian. And do not ask everyone where you are flying, at what height. Maybe something has already changed on the last aircraft, but in general, the vast majority of the aircraft are still old, ”the retired officer complained.

“In the 1994 year, we entered into a temporary agreement with Lithuania“ for the period of the withdrawal of troops ”, and since then 20 has flown from Kaliningrad region to greater Russia since then. Under this agreement, any aircraft in Lithuanian airspace must be equipped with an RBS unit - this is what is now called a transponder. If you flew to the border without this unit, the Lithuanian radar does not see you and, accordingly, does not give you access to their airspace. In this case, at a time in the airspace of Lithuania could be only one military aircraft. If you do not have a transponder, then go to Kaliningrad only by sea - from St. Petersburg over the Gulf of Finland, bending around the whole Baltic. It turns out twice as long, "- explained the source.

“Then centrally purchased three pieces. Without any modifications, they were installed on An-26. They could quickly solve the problem at the expense of a block. And on the modern? I do not know. Official information on the number of our military aircraft in the Baltic States is closed, but in any case, you need to purchase several hundred of such transponders and install them on different models of aircraft. A transponder can cost a thousand dollars, and an installation costs several thousand. Each plane has several dozen kilometers of wires. Everything is laid, it is necessary to change the connection of all the wires. It is necessary to contact the design bureau - “Ilyushin”, “Tupolev”, “Sukhoi” and so on, ”the source said.
“Most likely, there will be two or three transponders for each air regiment. When the task appears to fly to the region where it should be turned on, they will be issued specifically for one flight, ”the reserve officer suggested.

The former commander of the 4 Air Force Air Force and Air Defense, Hero of Russia Lieutenant General Valery Gorbenko agreed with the source’s opinion in an interview with the VIEW newspaper. “Such equipment is on civil and military transport aircraft. Previously, it was not installed anywhere on military aircraft. It's hard for me to say how much the blocks will cost now, ”said the lieutenant general. True, Gorbenko doubts that, for the sake of economy, the blocks can be released in small quantities and used in turn. “In any case, you will not just take the device with you like a mobile phone in your pocket. It is necessary to install, connect to the power supply system. We'll have to do revision on each aircraft in aircraft factories. Accordingly, it is expensive, ”admitted the former commander.

A source in the Russian aviation industry also confirmed to the newspaper VIEW that the installation of appropriate equipment "will require the development of experimental design documentation and considerable strength and resources."
Author:
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http://www.vz.ru/politics/2016/7/13/821299.html
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  1. Andrey K
    Andrey K 17 July 2016 18: 59
    +40
    “In any case, you won’t just take the device with you like a mobile phone in your pocket. It is necessary to install, connect to the power supply system. We will have to do a revision on each aircraft at aircraft factories. Accordingly, it is expensive, ”admitted the former commander.

    In the article, everything is laid out on "shelves". Everything is correct. All clear.
    There is not even a question ... I just have a conviction, this whole problem is sucked out of the finger by NATO members ...
    I am sure that on NATO military aircraft, this equipment is also missing ...
    There was an occasion to raise a howl, and they raised it. Those who need to track something use the data from radar detection stations that make up the layered system in almost every state, let alone the military bloc. request
    Moreover, the fact that military aviation flies in any square, in international airspace - interested parties are notified, this is not a secret, there are corresponding international agreements request
    I think that it is necessary to act in a gentlemanly way - to provide an opportunity for NATO troops, to install transponders on their military aircraft and to show in practice how to do it laughing
    I think the issues of installing transponders will come to naught. Something, but money, all these "members" of the alliance are able to count. Strangle with greed laughing
    1. laboratory assistant2
      laboratory assistant2 17 July 2016 19: 42
      -40%
      Quote: Andrey K

      In the article, everything is laid out on "shelves". Everything is correct. All clear.
      There is not even a question ... I just have a conviction, this whole problem is sucked out of the finger by NATO members ...
      I am sure that on NATO military aircraft, this equipment is also missing ...

      Damn guys! You can’t even imagine how clown you look from the outside!
      After all, until now, to all accusations that planes fly with the transporters turned off, Russia has ALWAYS answered: "We fly with them on", but now it turned out (suddenly!) That they are NOT at all!
      I don’t even know whether to cry here or laugh ...
      1. Andrey K
        Andrey K 17 July 2016 20: 17
        +19
        Quote: Lab Assistant2
        Damn guys! You can’t even imagine how clown you look from the outside!
        After all, until now, to all accusations that planes fly with the transporters turned off, Russia has ALWAYS answered: "We fly with them on", but now it turned out (suddenly!) That they are NOT at all!
        I don’t even know whether to cry here or laugh ...

        We read in the article:
        “Such equipment is on civil and military transport aircraft. Previously, it was not installed anywhere on military aircraft. It's hard for me to say how much the blocks will now cost ”

        Now tell me, what is clowning?
      2. Prisoner
        Prisoner 17 July 2016 20: 35
        +9
        Read smart books; you are not our mocking one.
        1. Red_Hamer
          Red_Hamer 18 July 2016 04: 26
          +2
          Judging by the habitat, way of thinking, and statements, he is not ours at all!
      3. NordUral
        NordUral 17 July 2016 21: 29
        +8
        Yes, we have enough clowns. One consolation is that most of them are liberals.
      4. Asian
        Asian 17 July 2016 21: 34
        +1
        Write boiling water on your heels
        1. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 18 July 2016 02: 11
          +2
          A transponder can be assembled by a student of the College of Radio Electronics.
      5. VIT101
        VIT101 17 July 2016 21: 58
        +13
        Quote: Lab Assistant2

        After all, until now, to all accusations that planes fly with the transporters turned off, Russia has ALWAYS answered: "We fly with them on", but now it turned out (suddenly!) That they are NOT at all!


        Oddly enough, but Russia did not lie. There are transponders on all of our aircraft, including fighter jets. And fly with constantly on. On 2 generation and transport aircraft, this unit is called SOD-57, on 3 generation and subsequent aircraft - СО-69.
        1. СО-69. Designed to work with secondary radars according to ATC standard when flying over the territory of the CIS. It provides automatic transmission by ground radar (upon request) of information about the aircraft’s flight number, flight altitude, fuel supply, individual recognition signal, and the Alarm signal.
        2. Transponder in the general sense: Air traffic control (ATC) transponder. Designed to automatically transmit to the air traffic controller information necessary for controlling the movement of an aircraft. Responders transmit response signals to interrogation signals emitted by secondary radars (or integrated secondary channels of surveillance radars) and together with the latter constitute a secondary radar system.
        So we really have transponders, the question is whether they comply with international standards.
      6. hirurg
        hirurg 17 July 2016 22: 02
        +1

        And you, the clown - Lab technician2 is better to think before speaking
        1. laboratory assistant2
          laboratory assistant2 18 July 2016 08: 13
          0
          Quote: hirurg
          And you, the clown - Lab technician2 is better to think before speaking

          It’s better for him to think and then speak. Especially from 27.45 to 31.01
      7. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 17 July 2016 22: 11
        +14
        Quote: Lab Assistant2
        I don’t even know whether to cry here or laugh ...

        Are you really so painful at the lack of transponders on our military aircraft?
        Russia has no agreements on this issue with the West. They needed a transponder to recognize an aircraft near civilian or civilian levels, and this is their internal affair, they have very close to it in the sky. The USSR and Russia have huge open spaces and much fewer aircraft, both civilian and military. Therefore, there was no urgent need for this.
        However, both the USSR and Russia put and are putting these transponders on airplanes for flights of our military transport aircraft outside of Russia. And fighters and bombers fly along the corridors previously agreed with the allied states. Everything is strictly regulated there, and being late in one minute can lead to an emergency landing of the aircraft, as an enemy, trying to penetrate the territory of the state under the guise of an existing temporary arrangement.
        And I consider putting a transponder on our military aircraft as a waste of money and a decrease in combat readiness. If on the eve of the battle the pilot accidentally turns it on at least for a second (or due to a technical malfunction), then the plane will be spotted right away and possibly attacked and shot down.
        1. laboratory assistant2
          laboratory assistant2 18 July 2016 08: 06
          -1
          Quote: Алексей_К
          Quote: Lab Assistant2
          I don’t even know whether to cry here or laugh ...

          Are you really so painful at the lack of transponders on our military aircraft?

          Why all of a sudden? I’m just curious to read how the accusations of turned off transponders to the Russian VKS are called
          statement by Swedish colleagues about transponders turned off - "craftiness".

          and the next day they themselves blame the opponent for the same
          "US Air Force aircraft carried out a flight with the transponder turned off. Information about the route by the crew was not communicated to the dispatching services of the region,
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. faridg7
            faridg7 18 July 2016 15: 47
            +1
            Quote: Lab Assistant2
            Quote: Алексей_К
            Quote: Lab Assistant2
            I don’t even know whether to cry here or laugh ...

            Are you really so painful at the lack of transponders on our military aircraft?

            Why all of a sudden? I’m just curious to read how the accusations of turned off transponders to the Russian VKS are called
            statement by Swedish colleagues about transponders turned off - "craftiness".

            and the next day they themselves blame the opponent for the same
            "US Air Force aircraft carried out a flight with the transponder turned off. Information about the route by the crew was not communicated to the dispatching services of the region,

            Are you all so cunning here? our combat aircraft do not use echelons and corridors intended for civilian traffic; if the transponder is turned off, it will not do anyone any weather. But your hangers-on use civilian corridors for flights and besides trying to mow civilians, only with the transponder turned on it doesn’t work, they turn it off. So do not compare yourself with a finger.
            And about transponders, identification systems are on the ships. If you cannot read, your problems, and if your plane cannot correctly answer their request, be prepared to collect its wreckage.
        2. Orionvit
          Orionvit 18 July 2016 23: 08
          0
          Well, the plane will be spotted in any case, the question is how to identify the target.
          how much of the fact that they fly with the transponders turned off, which makes them “invisible” to civilian cars and civilian air traffic controllers
          Why did you come up with radars? Both dispatchers and all planes have radars. Russian combat aircraft do not fly over NATO countries. In the event of a flight of US reconnaissance aircraft with transponders turned off, the Russian Air Force makes it easier. A fighter flies up and identifies an uninvited guest .. He has no right to shoot him down, but he can show that his presence is not desirable. Common international practice.
      8. Nasty
        Nasty 17 July 2016 22: 12
        +2
        Desa, if it is skillfully filed, is worth a lot. :)
      9. Homo
        Homo 17 July 2016 23: 54
        0
        Quote: Lab Assistant2
        ... Russia ALWAYS answered: "With the included fly" ...

        Links to such statements do not prompt? hi
      10. The comment was deleted.
      11. siberalt
        siberalt 18 July 2016 04: 41
        +4
        Russia has never stated that our combat aircraft fly with transponders turned on at their borders. Cheese boron flared up after NATO began to resent the fact that our fighters began to approach their planes near ours, again at our borders for "identification". Then they decided to agree on the use of identification systems. But this applied primarily to NATO aircraft. As can be seen from the article, the question is being raised about the use of such systems by our aircraft and, again, at their borders. And why should we do this with a hangover, if NATO, without our knowledge, moves its borders where it deigns?
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 17 July 2016 19: 49
      +9
      “Transponders are a very complicated problem related to how to regulate military air traffic and civil air traffic.
      I’ll give a stupid comparison: about five years ago, the traffic police began to teach us to "zebra", - formally the rule has existed for a long time, but it was "scored", and suddenly ... and "peshedralov", and for a couple of years now, "peace" has come to us, everyone is acting according to the rules! Why should I ... can introduce a norm-shoot down the fuck all that "UFO" ... and that's it! who wants to live will turn on the transponder ...
      1. dauria
        dauria 18 July 2016 00: 15
        +5
        ! What am I ... can introduce a norm-shoot down the fuck all that "UFO" ... and that's it! who wants to live will turn on the transponder ...


        Shoot in a neutral sky? Maybe we’ll install beacons on the submarines yet? Nefiga, there were still enough laws. Do not like it, scary, do not fly.

        Why an expensive unnecessary thing, for example, for a fighter jet, where kilograms of weight and every watt of electricity are counted? Moreover, there is a lot of work on design, testing, alteration and retraining of all - both flight and ground personnel. This is not "tuning" a ground cart.

        Why is there any noise at all? A civilian plane rammed by a bomber? No ... Ah, is it uncomfortable for their warriors to fly? We do not force you, sit on the ground ... Are you afraid that by chance a war will start? Well, brothers-rabbits from NATO, we write in such cases " Danger! Keep out ".
    3. iliitchitch
      iliitchitch 17 July 2016 21: 21
      +8
      Quote: Andrey K
      There is not even a question ... I just have a conviction, this whole problem is sucked out of the finger by NATO members ...


      That is how it is . To kill yourself against the pillar, if our "friend or foe" is not unkillable, the anti-aircraft guns have never failed their own, this is generally unthinkable, and who has not hid, so what do we do with it? Maybe they can also stroke their ass?
      "They will put you on the table, but don't steal."
    4. Karasik
      Karasik 17 July 2016 22: 47
      +9
      Colleagues, I am not a pilot, but as I understand it, transponders are an analogue of the marine device AIS (Automatic Identification System), which should be installed on all civil ships with a gross tonnage of more than 300 rubles, making international voyages, gross vessels with a capacity of 500 rubles and more, not making international voyages, and on all passenger ships. Its cost is insignificant by the standards of the fleet (approximately from 400 to 1000 USD). The system allows you to receive information about any ship in the area of ​​operation, its flight, course, speed, etc. And most importantly - it shows the name of the vessel, and you can use the radio to "address" the reckless driver in the sea (the navigator will understand what I mean).
      So, this system, if desired, can be installed on smaller vessels, in particular, the Chinese install AIS on fishing boats and even fishing nets (!) - this network is easier to find at sea, and there is confidence that it will not be moved then a steamer. Warships also have an AIS system. In straits, narrownesses, the system is switched on (navigation safety), and in the open sea it is often DISABLED! All the same, information about the movement of warships is secret.
      Why are military pilots worse? Does NATO want to know all the flight data of our aircraft? Send them to the address ... which is not on the maps!
    5. sgazeev
      sgazeev 18 July 2016 07: 55
      0
      The SOI program was taken out of dusty bags, spun on waste. Enough of our minds not to get involved, I don’t know. But Russian ingenuity never failed.
    6. drunkram
      drunkram 18 July 2016 08: 47
      0
      Yes, it looks more like a "sabotage" on the part of NATO, so that in our Defense Ministry they can smash their heads over where to get "shisha" for transponders
  2. svp67
    svp67 17 July 2016 19: 02
    +12
    What tells me that the problem, although there is, is not as global as the author is trying to show. Why do we need to equip ALL of our aircraft with a transponder? If a:
    a- the question is so far only about the Baltic region
    b- not all of our aircraft located in that region fly outside our borders.
    And in the end, since the President gave the command to consider the issue of production at domestic factories from domestic components, to put it mildly - "specific equipment" to fulfill the requirements of the "Yarovaya law", then what prevents from our same components will establish the production of our own transponders, volumes then they will be smaller, especially since they are needed not only, or rather not even so much for military aviation as for civil aviation, but we have MS-21 on the way, and there are new Ilys.
    1. Stinger
      Stinger 17 July 2016 19: 18
      +7
      It is right. But there will always be figures who will try to cut as much money as possible under this cause, considering the state as a cash cow. Remember the problem of time in computer software when moving into the 21st century.
      1. Vita vko
        Vita vko 17 July 2016 19: 50
        +6
        Quote: Stinger
        there will always be figures who will try to cut as much money as possible under this business
        It is especially unpleasant when these "figures" try to hide behind the "opinions" of the Heroes of Russia. After all, few people understand that a pilot, even such a famous one as Gorbenko, is still far from an engineer, and even less a production worker. Therefore, he does not know all the technical subtleties. What in the West is called transponders, on military aircraft are simply called identification systems. There are also completely open, not secret ranges. Therefore, there is no need to spend huge amounts of money on aircraft re-equipment. It is enough to put a couple of old NRZ identification systems of the 73E6 type, naturally without secret blocks, to interested NATO countries or simply repair at their expense, of course, Soviet interrogators that they still have from the Warsaw Pact countries and let them use.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 17 July 2016 19: 53
      0
      Quote: svp67
      Why do we need to equip ALL of our aircraft with a transponder?

      That is, as.... belay this is how we fly everywhere into the airspace, representing the sphere of interests of our neighbors ... what you are in the "corridor" in the "trance" and they define you. otherwise how?
    3. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 17 July 2016 21: 34
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      Why do we need to equip ALL of our aircraft with a transponder? If a:

      So, it seems that everyone is not going to. The article says that they will buy two or three and will be issued for the flight. And if, in fact, do we need it at all ?! The "simplicity" of mattresses is worse than stealing.
  3. ALABAY45
    ALABAY45 17 July 2016 19: 07
    +1
    A strange device ... In peacetime the toggle switch of the transponder is in the "On" position, and during the war - "Off" ?! But what about stealth technology then ?!
  4. Rus2012
    Rus2012 17 July 2016 19: 10
    +7
    the question needs to be linked to the presence of transponders in NATA troops.
    And accordingly, to require that they include it when flying near our state border ...
    All db on a reciprocal basis ...
  5. ARES623
    ARES623 17 July 2016 19: 13
    +2
    "Khibiny" on the external suspension can we "hang", but no transponder? Is that a tank? I'm not an aviation specialist, but I don't think this is such an insurmountable task.
    1. iliitchitch
      iliitchitch 17 July 2016 19: 37
      +2
      Quote: ARES623
      "Khibiny" on the external suspension can we "hang", but no transponder? Is that a tank? I'm not an aviation specialist, but I don't think this is such an insurmountable task.


      Or maybe lick it? So it is to Ukraine, Poland, they are lovers.
      1. ARES623
        ARES623 18 July 2016 12: 02
        0
        Quote: iliitch
        Or maybe lick it?

        Well, if you want so much, lick, I do not oppress the rainbow, although I do not welcome it. Only connection with the topic I do not see.
  6. iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 17 July 2016 19: 18
    +5
    Something is getting cramped on the seas and over the Baltic and Black Seas. These are our places, and here is what all sorts of donaldy-dukes-graves and rs135 do there - let them first answer that. And let the transponders set themselves up and do not forget to turn it on, insolents. In the morning they have toasted toast with coffee and spit in Russia - this is already a ritual.
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 17 July 2016 22: 22
      +1
      Quote: iliitch
      Something is getting cramped on the seas and over the Baltic and Black Seas. These are our places

      I have to upset you. These are not our places. A small area near Kaliningrad and a bit in the Gulf of Finland. And that’s it!
      This used to be much larger when the GDR, Poland and the Baltic states were our allies.
  7. PKK
    PKK 17 July 2016 19: 27
    +8
    Obviously they want ours to pinch and complicate their lives, to figure out routes and plans. It is better to say no to money. They will not appear earlier than defeating the igil. They will be peeled and accustomed.
  8. pofigisst74
    pofigisst74 17 July 2016 19: 28
    +3
    What's the problem? I remember that in the 90s, Americans gladly gave money to saw the planes of our strategic aviation. So let them now throw in the installation of transponders. And we will "lose" the first installment. lol
    1. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 17 July 2016 21: 38
      +4
      Quote: pofigisst74
      And we will "lose" the first installment.

      We cannot, we are honest and open, without any irony. What constantly the rest of the world uses.
  9. raid14
    raid14 17 July 2016 19: 29
    +2
    This is what NATe needs, so let it allot the money of the RF Ministry of Defense for the purchase and installation of transponders as a separate line of its budget. I remember how the United States fussed in the 90s, allocated the Strategic Missile Forces money for disarmament and cut ICBMs.
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 17 July 2016 20: 29
      +3
      Quote: raid14
      I remember how the United States fussed in 90x, allocated money to the Strategic Missile Forces

      ... and moreover, they also wanted to supply each Topol PGRK with these very transponders ... :)))))))))))))))
  10. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 17 July 2016 19: 30
    +3
    The answering machine unit - "Friend or Foe" has the size of a cigarette block, and consumes like a light bulb. I don't think transponders are much more complicated. Yes, it is not cheap due to its small batch size, but what is cheap in military equipment? This is not a problem, neither technical nor financial. Purely organizational.
    1. wadulya
      wadulya 17 July 2016 19: 59
      +1
      Yes, they just want to write down more money for this business, receive a request signal and send an identification code back to a device at a price less than the cheapest mobile phone, and you can power it from anywhere, even from the backlight of devices. Millions of rubles will be written off for this case, but in fact they will buy 100 rubles per piece from the Chinese and stick it to the instrument panel on tape.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 17 July 2016 20: 11
        0
        At one time, he took part in the sale to China of a set of equipment for the production of these "answering machines". So "a little in the know" what, how and how much. For military aviation, in a sealed design, and even with a "fifth acceptance"!
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 17 July 2016 20: 35
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Yes, not cheap due to its limited production


      CO - really has a block size, if only the responder, in the first place. The auto-liquidator also stands on it ...
      There is also a requestor.

      Secondly, it is a national system. And the transponder - stands on civilian vessels, which means it has an international standard and certification ...

      By the way, they were not only on the BTA planes in our times during the Soviet Union, but also on the Il-38, Tu-95MR - which "disguised" as GA vessels and flew with landings for refueling in Yugoslavia, India / Pakistan ...

      And for combat, by analogy: "tanks do not need a visa" (c) Shoigu, inna these transponders. So, a gesture of goodwill VVP, threw the ball onto the field to the adversaries, like you want, let's put a buoy. But mutually!
  11. ARS56
    ARS56 17 July 2016 19: 41
    +6
    Invite the fool to pray, and he will break his forehead.
    Which one? made the decision to spread under "partners"?
    Military aircraft are not required to have transponders. However, any whim for your money, since we are so helpful. For your money, Anglo-Saxons, not ours! But our managers cannot even speak with the Anglo-Saxons in the Geyropei-Kupiproday language. Only in Kholuysky: What are you pleased? It will be executed in an instant.
    1. jPilot
      jPilot 17 July 2016 22: 07
      +2
      I support! I will say even more (as a specialist). These "clowns" from NATA are again trying to shove their cunning asses, and ours are being led, and even, as always, not bothering with an all-aspect consideration of the problem. With the words "well, let's find out what's wrong with that!" request
      And the "such" thing here is that the range of the transponder is very decent and any aircraft will be visible from afar, which, accordingly, will allow it to be detected at distant lines and, accordingly, prepare all destruction systems for meeting with all the consequences. I am 100% sure that the "foes" on combat aircraft do not have them either, because this is absolutely civilian equipment. So even if they are going to install, first it is necessary to oblige all sides of the air force to install, control and no GESTURES OF GOODWILL stop
      By the way, I do not turn on the transponder in principle winked, thanks. OR VD so far do not seem to show wink
      1. roman_pilot
        roman_pilot 18 July 2016 05: 02
        +1
        They have transponders, I saw it myself. Only they do not always include them. It happens that only the host is paired.
  12. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 17 July 2016 19: 56
    +1
    [
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    The answering machine unit - "Friend or Foe" has the size of a cigarette block, and consumes like a light bulb. I don't think transponders are much more complicated. Yes, it is not cheap due to its small batch size, but what is cheap in military equipment? This is not a problem, neither technical nor financial. Purely organizational.
    I will support. Something wise in the article, most likely the difficulties of translating from technical to journalistic.
    The transponder gives out some information that the board of this type, this number belongs to such a state (like an automatic recognition system for civil aviation dispatch services) and nothing more. This is necessary in order to check the application form for the span. Why write about cable routes in an airplane, what do they have to do with it?
    1. ARS56
      ARS56 17 July 2016 21: 52
      +3
      You forgot that the transponder is actually a beacon with current coordinates. Add the type, number of aircraft and accessories. What else does the enemy need to prepare an attack and destroy our aircraft, starting with the key ones. And on the beacons, even a rookie will not miss, and more than one rocket is not required. Yes, yes, I heard, if necessary, turn it off, because the enemy will definitely warn before the attack.
    2. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 17 July 2016 22: 33
      0
      Quote: avg-mgn
      Why write about cable routes in an airplane, what do they have to do with it?

      So this is not a cell phone in the pocket of a pilot. Any modernization of the aircraft begins with the technical specifications, then design, creation of the system and testing. Installing the system on combat aircraft requires sending them to the factory. And after each aircraft should be tested in all flight modes. Therefore, people write about cable channels, anticipating great difficulties in modernization.
      An airplane is not a hacky smartphone or laptop.
  13. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 17 July 2016 19: 56
    0
    Quote: Andrey Yurievich
    can enter the norm-shoot down the fuck all that "UFO" ... and that's it! who wants to live will turn on the transponder ...

    There's something about it.
  14. family tree
    family tree 17 July 2016 19: 59
    +2
    I even drove off. They have that, without this magnetron from the microwave, there is absolutely no backlight on the screen, or something belay And if there is, then fate will not exchange frequencies, it’s possible to ask on the radio, they say, hto and where you are going, and hear in reply that they say it’s not yours, I’m sorry, the dog’s business what
  15. Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 17 July 2016 20: 06
    +10
    Honestly, the howl of the "partners" is not very clear, God forgive me. There was always enough flightplan. We do not hide from the primary radar in everyday life. Civilians cannot see the plane without a transponder, this is a secondary location. And here we need to remember the Regional Airspace Initiative, in the Baltic States it is called BaltNet, as I do not remember with pshek. And these guys, with a regional center in lithuania, have a flighplan and their primary picture are quite capable of coordinating everything. All this joy is integrated into the air defense of western Europe, the coordination goes through the Danish Karup.
    Once again, I repeat the question of why this howl went, there is nothing to do.
    Like in a joke: don’t tell me what to do, and I won’t tell you where to go.
  16. AIR-ZNAK
    AIR-ZNAK 17 July 2016 20: 26
    +2
    Locators have two modes. One for working with identification systems and the other without. And you can see any technical tool heavier than air. And even a flock of sparrows. Any radio technician knows this. The problem is sucked out of the finger. The only thing the dispatcher does not see is the type of aircraft (and even if it's civil obsolete locators) and information on board. Can they also inform the name of the pilot in advance? The military fly by prior notice, it is clear that in peacetime and even then not always. That's why they are military. And if civilians are notified, then they say that individuals will go at such and such a level in such and such direction approximately then and then.
  17. Berkut24
    Berkut24 17 July 2016 20: 29
    +4
    "The Latvian Defense Ministry then asserted that our planes flew without a flight plan provided, without a radar system turned on and without maintaining communication with the flight control center."

    1) Do not la la. Without a flight plan, nothing flies. But it can be provided to NATO countries only if all NATO countries will daily submit their plans to our General Staff.
    2) ... even did not understand, why do we need to turn on our radar? Can fly with landing spotlights?
    3) I am sure that our flyers have a connection with the flight center. And let the Chukhites rejoice that our flight control center is not in Riga yet.
  18. fa2998
    fa2998 17 July 2016 20: 41
    0
    Quote: svp67
    What tells me that although the problem is, it’s not as global as the author tries to show it

    Is there a problem? What kind of transponders, when modern means of detection (radar) easily track aircraft from takeoff to landing! If the plane took off near St. Petersburg or Pskov, is it Danish or German? reckless ", and both ours and NATO's. Just let the ardor tame and develop mutual measures of behavior when meeting, both at sea and in the air. NO MONEY AND INVESTMENTS! yes hi
  19. Igor V
    Igor V 17 July 2016 20: 43
    -1
    The air defense officer of the country told how the NATO troops raided our air border. Up to 100 aircraft immediately flew to the border, turned and walked, observing all the turns of the border. And among them was one small one who was turning in the opposite direction. So they evaluated the sensitivity of our equipment. So if the whole hundred will be with the transponders turned on, then they themselves will go crazy, seeing such a mass on civilian locators. smile
  20. Mercenary
    Mercenary 17 July 2016 20: 43
    0
    Who prevents to put this horseradish in stages at the factory on new aircraft? And cheaper and the order of the supreme is executed! But the NATO will wait - do not bari! tongue
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 17 July 2016 22: 43
      +1
      Quote: Mercenary
      Who prevents to put this horseradish in stages at the factory on new aircraft? And cheaper and the order of the supreme is executed! But the NATO will wait - do not bari! tongue

      So there are no agreements on this with Russia and NATO members. In Russia, nobody will put this hre.opin on combat aircraft until there are written mutual agreements. At the same time, NATO should prove that on all of their aircraft this horseradish is either standing, or it will be installed in stages in accordance with the agreements.
  21. atamankko
    atamankko 17 July 2016 21: 08
    0
    Although a small spoonful of tar, but to the mess of Russia gives joy to adversaries.
  22. NordUral
    NordUral 17 July 2016 21: 27
    +1
    For this, the NATO squeeze on us that it is expensive and not necessary for us.
  23. Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 17 July 2016 21: 28
    +6
    Yes, we have everything there. Only the toggle switch needs to be switched. Anyone who is familiar with the respondents will understand what it is about. The code is changed from ours but international. There is an active response to a radar request with information about the altitude, range and aircraft number. But for Why should we do this to make life easier for Americans and Gay Europeans? Yeah, now, they scattered in an empty tavern with no money. Let them look in front of the local people or in the SDC. But who they do not need to know. Can they still give them a friend or another? So because of Bilenko, the traitor, who stole the MiG-25 in Japan, the mother had to redo everything. Fuck them, not the "transponders". We found fools. Let them ask their mother-in-law.
  24. Gora66
    Gora66 17 July 2016 21: 29
    +3
    I don’t remember a single case of a collision of military and civilian aircraft in the air. Civil aviation aircraft collided and repeatedly though equipped with transponders and conducted by ground services ...
  25. iouris
    iouris 17 July 2016 21: 31
    +3
    I repeat: the problem is not with some transponders, but in the Kaliningrad region. It is gradually "squeezed out". And we all know how to deal with this problem.
  26. vell.65
    vell.65 17 July 2016 22: 22
    +1
    Quote: VIT101
    So we really have transponders, the question is whether they comply with international standards.

    Those. now Russia must be rebuilt to NATO standards, and huh hu not ho-ho.
  27. Lenin
    Lenin 17 July 2016 22: 26
    0
    What spruce transponders? Basic recognition equipment is for our air defense. Tiogda let's light up all the equipment and its movement. Maybe you immediately report to the Pentagon Brothers our Americans, and so we will carry out a secret operation tomorrow, but you will not ... laughing
  28. Ruby
    Ruby 17 July 2016 22: 26
    +1
    Quote: GoRa66
    I don’t remember a single case of a collision of military and civilian aircraft in the air. Civil aviation aircraft collided and repeatedly though equipped with transponders and conducted by ground services ...

    Well, at a glance at least the collision of Tu16 and An24 in the area of ​​Zavitinsk. A well-known case where a woman remained alive, planning on a fragment of the fuselage.
    In general, in the case. In the world there are two modes of secondary radar air traffic control and RBS, almost all airborne transponders and ground-based radars in our country can operate in two modes. Foreign radars do not accept our ATC regime.
  29. Alex_Tug
    Alex_Tug 17 July 2016 22: 44
    0
    Quote: GoRa66
    Civil aviation aircraft collided and repeatedly though equipped with transponders and conducted by ground services ...


    A vivid example is the collision of Bashkir TU-154 over Baden. Civilian aircraft over Europe cannot fly without TCAS (collision avoidance system). The transponder is the source of information for TCAS of other aircraft about the aircraft - course, altitude. It looks something like this, TCAS draws an imaginary around the aircraft and tracks the transponders. If another plane is inside the circle of the TCAS system of the aircraft, then the TKAS of the two planes make a decision - like, I’ll go higher, and you stay at that height. The pilot informs his decision - get on the train (stay on the train).

    Personally, I know only one TCAS manufacturer - Honeywell. Maybe Airbas buys from someone else. All this works according to one standard. What we fly to Europe (Russian-made) TKAS buy from amers.
    Somehow I kind of explained why I needed it. Cross planes corridors GA.
    1. Alex_Tug
      Alex_Tug 18 July 2016 00: 48
      +2
      Airplanes are now over the Baltic.
    2. Alex_Tug
      Alex_Tug 18 July 2016 00: 52
      0
      So TCAS shows the pilot the nearest aircraft. - / + figure difference in levels. Without a transponder, flying is to put on the ears of all controllers.
      1. roman_pilot
        roman_pilot 18 July 2016 05: 09
        0
        Not so problematic. It’s just that they won’t let RVSM (shortened vertical separation) into the space without a responder, and they’ll let it go without TCAS.
    3. Alex_Tug
      Alex_Tug 18 July 2016 01: 22
      +1
      Transponder prices.
  30. Alex_Tug
    Alex_Tug 17 July 2016 23: 51
    +1
    Quote: Karasik
    In straits, narrownesses, the system is switched on (navigation safety), and in the open sea it is often DISABLED! All the same, information about the movement of warships is secret.
    Why are military pilots worse?


    No worse, but they are needed during the passage of GA corridors. Otherwise, the commotion begins, to cut radars, to monitor the military aircraft, dispatchers will plant civilian aircraft. So at least see the military side of the civilian side. Gone from the corridor, cut down.
  31. Felix
    Felix 18 July 2016 06: 15
    0
    Quote: Simpsonian
    A transponder can be assembled by a student of the College of Radio Electronics.

    Can assemble ... And install? The unit itself, the antenna, it’s all happiness to integrate into the on-board network, for the antenna to determine the place outside or inside - then a radiotransparent cowl / cover, lay new cables ... make changes to the technical documentation, train personnel. And all taking into account the specifics.
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 18 July 2016 07: 14
      0
      install - technician
  32. tasha
    tasha 18 July 2016 07: 10
    0
    Not quite clear. Can’t our detection and tracking systems simply transmit in real time to the dispatching services of other countries data on the movement of our military aircraft in the contract areas?
  33. aviamed90
    aviamed90 18 July 2016 09: 06
    0
    I read the article and didn’t understand the author.

    What system does he call a transponder?

    Our aircraft uses several systems:

    1 - "friend or foe" identification system (SRZO - radar request and response system).
    Available on state aviation (military) aircraft. SRZO "Silicon-2 (2m)" has been removed from service since 1995.
    Since 2011, it has also been removed from all sides of civil aviation.
    Now SRZO "Password" is used. On aircraft it is represented by the corresponding block. On the ground - NRZ (ground radar interrogator), which is interfaced with the radar.
    SRZO is designed to automatically identify its troops and weapons from enemy troops.
    When crossing the state border of the Russian Federation, it necessarily turns off (in accordance with the documents).
    In domestic aviation slang, the system is called "rose", "starboard".

    2 - air traffic control (air traffic control) transponder or aircraft radar transponder.
    We are represented by the defendants of the Department of Internal Affairs SOM-64, СО-70, СО-96, СО-72, etc., as well as import models.
    This is an on-board transceiver on board designed for the automatic issuance of information messages upon a radar request signal (the so-called "active response").
    They are designed to automatically transmit to the air traffic controller information necessary for air traffic control. Entering the secondary radar system.
    Used to facilitate ATC.
    It is used both in civil ("ATC" and "RBS" modes) and in state (military) aviation ("ATC" mode).
    In civil aviation slang, a "transponder" is understood as an ATC respondent.

    3 - Traffic alert and Collision Avoidance System, TCAS.
    Designed to reduce the risk of aircraft collisions. The system surveys the space around the aircraft, revealing other vessels equipped with a TCAS transponder (TCAS-I, TCAS-II). In the event of a collision risk, the system warns pilots about this.
    Currently, it is actively used on our sides and not only of foreign production.

    In the USSR, and then in Russia, a domestic analogue of such a system was used - the Echelon collision avoidance system. In military aviation, it was installed on military transport aircraft.
    This the system does not pair with TCAS.

    4 - system AZN-B (automatic dependent surveillance-broadcasting) (ADS-B (Automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast)
    Allows both pilots and controllers at the ground point to "see" aircraft traffic with greater accuracy than was previously available and to obtain aeronautical information. Currently being introduced in the USA, Russia and other countries.
    Used only in civil aviation (in most countries).

    What did the author mean?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 18 July 2016 09: 22
        0
        All of these devices are included in the respective systems.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 18 July 2016 09: 26
          0
          or not included


          lol (not held, inspired laughing )
  34. midshipman
    midshipman 18 July 2016 09: 22
    +2
    Our first aircraft transponder was developed under the index SOD-57, chief designer R.A. Chernokhvostov. Then went these defendants, created under the leadership of Krylov Yew.A. Why do I mention them, all this was created at NII-33, where I started working in 1963. In RBS mode, not all transponders can work. I was responsible for their creation, equipping all aviation with these means. Readers correctly mentioned that after Bilenko we had to accelerate the transition from the Chrom-Nickel State Identification System to Password, and to NATO MK XII.
    Let's move on to the article. I think the correct instruction was given by the President of the Russian Aerospace Forces and the Ministry of Transport of the Russian Federation on this issue. The case is simple. I directed the transfer of the country's aviation to the new State Identification System and we managed in two years. But then in the country there were more than 15 thousand aircraft. There is an order, it needs to be worked out within a month and an answer on fulfillment should be given.
    In 1986, in Budapest, when the Smgma ATC system (NII-33) was being introduced there, all the adversaries' planes were clearly visible in a given airspace (range up to 400 km). I have the honor.
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 18 July 2016 09: 28
      0
      You are just a godsend for spies ...
  35. aviamed90
    aviamed90 18 July 2016 09: 38
    +1
    Russia is a member of the ICAO and is obliged to comply with the rules and recommendations it has established.

    Here is the ICAO document referred to by our "Western partners":

    "Where an aircraft has a serviceable transponder, the pilot will use that transponder for the entire flight, whether the aircraft is in or outside the airspace where secondary surveillance radar (SSR) is used for ATS."

    ("Flight Operations", Volume 1, Chapter 1, Clause 1.1.1, Doc. 8168, Edition 5-2006)

    This is precisely the defendant of the air traffic control (active response on the ARL) and this requirement applies for the most part to civil aviation.

    However, the use or shutdown of the ATC defendant in the danger zone may be due to the flight mission of the crew according to the exercise plan.
    This is completely legal, since the area is not recommended for civil aviation flights and everyone is warned of danger.
    So military aircraft flies around the world.
    When flying military (state) aviation, the so-called. "dangerous zone".

    "hazardous zone" - airspace of specified dimensions, within which, at certain periods of time, activities that pose a danger to aircraft flights can be carried out. "

    ("Federal flight rules of the Russian Federation", Resolution of the Government of the Russian Federation No. 138 t 11.03.2010, "Terms and definitions")

    An application for its establishment over neutral waters (international airspace) is submitted to ICAO indicating the time and duration, altitudes (levels), coordinates and type of activity (military exercises, patrolling, etc.).

    And already the pilot of the civil liner himself decides whether it is dangerous for him or not.
    ICAO only notifies and recommends - no more.

    So it’s not entirely clear what these gentlemen demand from us.

    Apparently they want to easily and comfortably track the flights of our military aircraft around the world.
  36. Felix
    Felix 18 July 2016 11: 32
    0
    Quote: Simpsonian
    install - technician


    And together it will be called - prikolkhoz. Because at one beautiful moment during overloading, the device will fail, simultaneously overloading the power circuit, because the gas station was off-balance and the circuit selected was not the one that would pull the extra load, but the first one that got ... And the plane, at the cost of several million evergreens, will fall on someone's dacha ...
    No, really. In such cases, such savings can be expensive.
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 18 July 2016 11: 49
      +1
      a collective farmer could be something like a farm
    2. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 18 July 2016 11: 49
      0
      a collective farmer could be something like a farm
  37. sa-ag
    sa-ag 18 July 2016 14: 02
    0
    The point here is not the transponders per se, but the fact that NATO is oppressing its line, and judging by the article of the Russian Federation agrees with this line, the question arises - the reason for such flexibility?