Military Review

Media: MI-25 helicopter in Syria could be shot down from a C-60 gun

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The tragedy with the Russian crew of the Syrian Mi-25 caused a lot of assumptions and guesses. Now users are actively discussing exactly what the "flying tank" was shot down, writes Messenger of Mordovia.


Media: MI-25 helicopter in Syria could be shot down from a C-60 gun


“According to the official version, an American guided missile of the anti-tank complex TOW hit the helicopter. According to military experts, this assumption has the right to exist. Judging by the video that appeared on the network, the rocket could have been directed from the mountains. In principle, an experienced ATGM operator is capable of such a task, ”writes publication author Lev Romanov.



He notes that “the onboard defense complex on the helicopter successfully repels attacks of all known types of man-portable air defense systems. But to effectively neutralize wire-guided missiles is beyond his control. ”



Meanwhile, experts put forward another version: a helicopter could shoot down an X-NUMX-mm anti-aircraft cannon C-57. “Terrorists could install it on a car and disguise it well before firing a helicopter. There are some simple but effective enough techniques for making sure that, for example, during the shots a unmasking cloud of dust does not rise, ”the author writes.

If we consider that "C-60 hits the 6 km range, and the speed of an almost three-kilogram projectile reaches 1000 m / s, it becomes clear why the crew did not have time to do anything," concludes Romanov.
Photos used:
2004 Courage
143 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. siberalt
      siberalt 11 July 2016 09: 40
      +3
      One of the victims was an experienced pilot - instructor Colonel Khabibullin. After completing the assignment, they walked from the turn at an extremely low height. The attack was unexpected. They write about "stab in the back" from TOW.
      1. Pavel1
        Pavel1 11 July 2016 10: 02
        +31
        the helicopter crashed in the territory of the SAR, then a thorough investigation should be carried out, not an assumption, and when the results are announced, then we'll talk ...
        1. Kozliu
          Kozliu 11 July 2016 13: 12
          -15%
          The topic needs to be renamed, the video shows that the MI-35 was shot down which should be equipped much better than the MI-25
          If the helicopter is shot down from the barrel artillery, it turns out that the crew did not see the battlefield, the target of which was to destroy in the first place - a deadly anti-aircraft gun for him, large sizes by the way.
          But why didn’t they see / classify / destroy? This is a question for the helicopter that flew from behind and the valiant Milevtsy, why their cars do not see the enemy who shoots at them on the battlefield?
          1. psiho117
            psiho117 11 July 2016 14: 22
            0

            Quote: Kozliu
            But why didn’t they see / classify / destroy? This is a question for the helicopter that flew from behind and the valiant Milevtsy, why their cars do not see the enemy who shoots at them on the battlefield?

            If it was really TOW, then they could not detect it, it is controlled by wires, no irradiation, nothing. But it is doubtful that this skill needs to be developed for decades, I don’t think that chocks have such specialists
            1. Kozliu
              Kozliu 11 July 2016 14: 43
              -13%
              No need to detect the start time of the TOW.
              The helicopter pilot, not yet entering the zone of destruction of ground-based assets, must see into his thermal imager, calculating TOW until he fired. The pilot must see absolutely everything that happens on the battlefield in which he participates.
              1. Alexey-74
                Alexey-74 11 July 2016 16: 18
                +12
                Yes, I see a pilot of a combat helicopter of you is still the one .... heavier than the joystick of the toy was holding something ....? wassat
              2. alexmach
                alexmach 11 July 2016 22: 47
                +2
                I don’t know that in the summer in the desert you can see in the thermal imager ...
              3. Anton Valerevich
                Anton Valerevich 14 July 2016 00: 48
                0
                This is not Battlefield for you, there are no markers.
            2. pilot8878
              pilot8878 11 July 2016 17: 51
              0
              Quote: psiho117
              I do not think that chocks have such specialists

              Remind me how much money the Americans spent on training "noble Robin Hoods", who, according to the teachers themselves, immediately went to bearded pregnant women?
          2. Fitter
            Fitter 11 July 2016 19: 24
            -1
            "the video shows that MI-35 was shot down" and where is it visible? only the silhouettes of the "crocodiles" are visible. Yes, the landing gear is not visible.
            1. archipelaggulag
              archipelaggulag 11 July 2016 19: 54
              +3
              Quote: Fitter
              "the video shows that MI-35 was shot down" and where is it visible? only the silhouettes of the "crocodiles" are visible. Yes, the landing gear is not visible.

              Really?
          3. OlegYOla
            OlegYOla 11 July 2016 19: 46
            +1
            Do not confuse the game flight simulator with life fellow
          4. rumatam
            rumatam 11 July 2016 21: 17
            0
            because it used up ammunition.
        2. Alexey-74
          Alexey-74 11 July 2016 16: 15
          +1
          everyone already knows there .... they just don’t tell us
          1. potroshenko
            potroshenko 11 July 2016 17: 52
            +1
            And where is the version about the abnormally worked NURS? Something the Messenger of Mordovia is afraid to discuss all versions.
      2. zanoza
        zanoza 11 July 2016 10: 09
        +36
        We won’t be informed about the exact information they brought down. Sounding vulnerabilities is stupid. If the board did not burn to the ground, they might find out exactly what they shot down. Maybe the agents that will report.
        Mi-35 (25) is not good, but no one guarantees 100% protection against defeat.
        Our pilots Eternal memory!They completed the combat mission, saved other lives at the cost of their ...
      3. Altona
        Altona 11 July 2016 10: 26
        +5
        Quote: siberalt
        One of the victims was an experienced pilot - instructor Colonel Khabibullin. After completing the assignment, they walked from the turn at an extremely low height. The attack was unexpected. They write about "stab in the back" from TOW.

        ------------------
        Not quite on the topic. Today I read something like this: "American pilots did not support the allies in a difficult situation and flew to the base. Our pilots, seeing the enemy's offensive, on the contrary, turned around and supported the allies with fire."
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. archipelaggulag
          archipelaggulag 11 July 2016 21: 19
          0
          Quote: Altona

          Not quite on the topic. Today I read something like this: "American pilots did not support the allies in a difficult situation and flew to the base. Our pilots, seeing the enemy's offensive, on the contrary, turned around and supported the allies with fire."

          It is a pity that no one except VO printed such sensational news
      4. Juborg
        Juborg 11 July 2016 11: 25
        +5
        Watch the video carefully, the couple went on a combat course, one shoots, the other covers. Apparently, there was an oversized output of the NUR, which damaged the tail of the turntable. As for TOW, it’s generally muddy, this cumulative rocket and also works exclusively in the lower hemisphere, shining everything that moves below, and not what flies above. In addition, there is no tracer, not a trace, not from missiles, not from shells (by the way, shells are at least BZ and the trace of the tracer should have been).
        1. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
          Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 11 July 2016 11: 52
          +4
          The S-60 (57mm AZP) high-explosive shells with a contact fuse have 200g of explosives in them. This is enough to interrupt the rail. The tracer is visible when the observer is within a radius of 70-100m from the firing gun. Armor-piercing incendiary shells have a cumulative charge and there is no tracer.
        2. archipelaggulag
          archipelaggulag 11 July 2016 20: 02
          +1
          Quote: juborg
          In addition, there is no tracer, not a trace, not from missiles, not from shells (by the way, shells are at least BZ and the trace of the tracer should have been).

          And this is behind the tail, as I understand it, an optical illusion?
      5. alexmach
        alexmach 11 July 2016 22: 45
        +1
        Have you seen the video? Where was there a U-turn then? went to the target, fired with NARs, got hit by something, the approach of which is not visible on the video ...
  2. Andrey K
    Andrey K 11 July 2016 09: 19
    +20
    Mi-25 helicopter in Syria could be shot down from the S-60 gun

    More like the truth. About the super-specialists who shot down the Mi-25 from TOW - this is from the realm of fantasy. This is how many trainings you need to conduct in order to get into the flying target from this product? Given that TOW is not supplied with the latest modification, that is, it is controlled by wire, then doubts are further amplified. Among the entire stream of cannon fodder, it’s unlikely that the barmalei can train such a specialist request
    1. drunkram
      drunkram 11 July 2016 09: 27
      +9
      Not to mention the fact that the speed of the Tow missile is not enough to catch the helicopter at the speed with which it flew, and if it is enough, the rocket could at least be seen. So that can't be TOW. MANPADS would hit the engine + firing, then it’s not MANPADS (although it’s also debatable), it means either a missile defense or NURS marriage, and fragments from it fell into the rear propeller blades
      1. Leto
        Leto 11 July 2016 09: 46
        +7
        Quote: drunkram
        Not to mention that the Tow missile’s flight speed is not enough to catch a helicopter

        Right
        Quote: drunkram
        So it can't be TOW

        With high probability
        Quote: drunkram
        MANPADS would hit the engine

        It depends on what. Domestic manufacturers write that on the Igla the moment of undermining the warhead is shifted so that it is not carried out in the engine nozzle, which is not efficient enough, but in the fuselage region, thus providing a greater probability.
        Watch how the Kurds shot down Turkish Cobra from the Needle, the explosion occurred similarly.
        1. razmik72
          razmik72 11 July 2016 11: 12
          +1
          I watched a video of shooting down a helicopter, there is no TOW there, the helicopter was shot down by anti-aircraft artillery, maybe they shot down a C-60.
      2. kov123
        kov123 11 July 2016 10: 17
        +4
        rocket speed 250-270 m / s. So she will be able to catch up with the helicopter IF the range allows. At the first complexes, it was up to 3 km. In later versions, announced an increase of up to 4,5 km. In general, the problem is not even in speed and range, but in the position of the launcher relative to the helicopter. The PU operator may not have time to work out the lateral displacement of the target ...
      3. x.andvlad
        x.andvlad 11 July 2016 10: 17
        +6
        the speed of the Tow missile is not enough to catch the helicopter at that speed
        You're wrong.
        Helicopter flight speed up to 335 km / h
        ATGM flight speed - 250 m / s, i.e. 900 km / h.
        and if enough, the rocket would be visible at least.
        If you think that the PT missile in flight is seen from the side as well as the operator during the launch, and here you are mistaken. The operator or the one who is standing nearby sees her (or rather her tracer) due to the fact that he looks after her.
        So a well-trained operator shoot down a helicopter under suitable shooting conditions quite a feasible task.
        Incidentally, the purpose of ATGM includes the possibility of firing at low-flying and hovering air targets.
        1. x.andvlad
          x.andvlad 11 July 2016 11: 43
          +1
          BUT the fact that in this case the helicopter was shot down from "Tow" cannot be unequivocally stated. In the video available during the defeat of the helicopter, the gap is much smaller than usual from an ATGM. All the same, this rocket has a caliber of 152 mm and 6 kg of explosives. IMHO
          1. Denimax
            Denimax 11 July 2016 16: 35
            0
            Quote: x.andvlad
            In the available video, during a helicopter hit, the gap is much smaller than usual from ATGMs. All the same, this missile has a caliber of 152 mm and 6 kg of explosives. IMHO

            Exactly. An explosion from TOU would be more powerful. I am more inclined to MANPADS which were launched into the catch and the non-contact fuse worked on the tail rotor. It would be better if they got into the engine, at such a low altitude the crew could have a chance to make a controlled landing.
      4. Bayonet
        Bayonet 11 July 2016 12: 18
        0
        Quote: drunkram
        and fragments from it fell into the rear propeller blades

        If fragments hit the tail rotor, it could damage the blades, even let us destroy it, but not tear off the tail boom.
    2. Shulz5
      Shulz5 11 July 2016 09: 28
      +2
      Quote: Andrey K
      Mi-25 helicopter in Syria could be shot down from the S-60 gun

      More like the truth.

      And the cable from the screw stretches from the S-60?
    3. evgenii67
      evgenii67 11 July 2016 10: 07
      +1
      One comrade claimed that it was the Mi-35 (because of the shortened wings with 4 suspension points, and not 6 like the Mi24 / 25), I really don't understand how he saw on that video how many suspension points on that flyby?!, but as many media say, there was no mention of the Mi-35, it is said about the downed Mi-25 (export version of the Mi-24), but the question is, what did we do on the Mi-25, why not on the Mi-24/35 ??? Suppose instructors on the Mi-25, then, according to the idea, they were supposed to train the Syrian crew and losses, respectively ... and if instructors, then what did they do on the "battlefield"? in general, as always, there are more questions than answers. It's a pity that our guys are dying again. Everlasting memory.
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 11 July 2016 10: 40
        +7
        Quote: evgenii67
        One comrade claimed that it was the Mi-35 (because of the shortened wings with 4 suspension points, and not 6 like the Mi24 / 25), I really don't understand how he saw on that video how many suspension points on that flyby?!, but as many media say, there was no mention of the Mi-35, it is said about the downed Mi-25 (export version of the Mi-24), but the question is, what did we do on the Mi-25, why not on the Mi-24/35 ??? Suppose instructors on the Mi-25, then, according to the idea, they were supposed to train the Syrian crew and losses, respectively ... and if instructors, then what did they do on the "battlefield"? in general, as always, there are more questions than answers. It's a pity that our guys are dying again. Everlasting memory.

        Rather, I saw short wings on the turntable in the video. And then, if it was a fly-over - why are the two turntables on the video - they also fly in pairs, with a full ammunition load, and even in an area of ​​intense hostilities ?! It seems to me that our helicopter, just our MO, had to somehow get out, after his first nonsense about "no losses", so a fairy tale came out about our pilots behind a Syrian helicopter. Some kind of Tymchukovshchina negative
      2. Ze Kot
        Ze Kot 11 July 2016 10: 43
        +10
        Quote: evgenii67
        One friend claimed it was an Mi-35



        There were visible chassis. The 24th chassis retracts, the 35th does not.
        1. evgenii67
          evgenii67 11 July 2016 10: 55
          +6
          Quote: The Cat
          There were visible chassis. The 24th chassis retracts, the 35th does not.

          Everything floated r ... through the pipes. ALREADY IN MANY MEDIA SPEAK ABOUT THE BROKEN MI-35M as we expected before.
      3. Lyubopyatov
        Lyubopyatov 11 July 2016 22: 25
        0
        My understanding may be wrong, but the pilots were instructors until the helicopter was declared to belong to the Syrian army. When the helicopter was recognized as belonging to the Russian Aerospace Forces, the pilots were no longer called instructors, and the flight was recognized as a combat flight, and not a verification flight of equipment. I don’t want to comment on the traditional tail-swinging of official representatives, both in Syria and in Novorossia. (Firstly, we are for peace in Donbass, and secondly, "for the territorial integrity" of the former Ukraine.) How can the overseas "partners" react to this? They shake their heads: the Russian soldiers are real, and their commanders-in-chief are not real. This means that we, Americans, have a good chance to remain the rulers of the entire planet.
    4. Sashka
      Sashka 11 July 2016 11: 00
      +7
      There is evidence that, nevertheless, the Mi-35 VKS of the Russian Federation was shot down. Regarding the expenditure of the entire ammunition, it is also not clear, the shell hit the tail almost simultaneously with the release of NURSs. So he was not shot down on the reverse course, according to the Moscow Defense Ministry. Either the video does not correspond to this particular situation, or the Moscow Region does not agree on everything for us, which it has every right to: war nevertheless ...
    5. Professor
      Professor 11 July 2016 11: 02
      +5
      Quote: Andrey K
      Given that TOW is not supplied with the latest modification, that is, it is controlled by wire, doubts are further amplified.

      Is there a "last modification" TOU which is NOT controlled by wires? Match however. sad

      Article minus. negative "Maybe it was a TOU, maybe not a TOU." OBS in one word.
      1. Andrey K
        Andrey K 11 July 2016 12: 09
        +6
        Quote: Professor
        Article minus. negative "Maybe it was a TOU, maybe not a TOU." OBS in one word.

        We have already decided that you don’t need to give lectures (I personally feel sorry for the time, and it will be beneficial for you to read special literature). Therefore: study the materiel, maybe where and subtract about the missile control system in various versions.
        Not an offset. Minus you hi
        1. Professor
          Professor 11 July 2016 12: 55
          -1
          Quote: Andrey K
          We have already decided that you don’t need to give lectures (I personally feel sorry for the time, and it will be beneficial for you to read special literature).

          Oh yeah. Which one of you is a specialist we really found out. Now you and the "last modification" TOU which is controlled NOT by wire appeared. Educational program for you: TOW stands for "Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided" where Wire-guided stands for "wire-guided". Learn materiel. hi

          Quote: Andrey K
          Therefore: study the materiel, maybe where and subtract about the missile control system in various versions.

          Give me the link. Weak? wink
          1. Andrey K
            Andrey K 11 July 2016 13: 37
            +5
            Quote: Professor
            Give me the link. Weak? wink

            I’m not going to give you links, take the trouble to study at least something yourself what
            Your knowledge from Wikipedia is not impressive ...
            Concerning:
            Oh yeah. Which of you specialist we really found out.

            The most important thing is that you learn what you are going to talk about laughing
            And then you somehow do not get ice (or mine) request
            Last time after talking with you, presumably "Professor", I can’t say for sure, I didn’t hold it by the leg ... I drummed the moderator and I had two comments, for something related to the Semites laughing
            Therefore, professor, study the materiel, and then trump "knowledge" ...
            And in no case do not "knock" again ... Ugly hi
            1. Professor
              Professor 11 July 2016 14: 03
              +3
              Quote: Andrey K
              I’m not going to give you links, take the trouble to study at least something yourself
              Your knowledge from Wikipedia is not impressive ...

              I will give you a link with pleasure. I do not mind sharing my knowledge.
              ATGM BGM-71 TOW

              When was the RF adopted? How many are ordered? When did she enter the army? wink

              Quote: Andrey K
              The last time after talking with you, presumably a "professor", I can’t say for sure, I didn’t hold my leg ... I tapped the moderator and I had two remarks for something related to the Semites

              Follow the rules of the site since you hang around here and you will be happy.

              Quote: Andrey K
              Therefore, professor, study the materiel, and then trump "knowledge" ...

              I study and share knowledge with the public. What can you brag about, CEP?

              Quote: Andrey K
              And in no case do not "knock" again ... Ugly

              Breaking site rules is ugly. Don't like the rules? Go to another site. hi
              1. Andrey K
                Andrey K 11 July 2016 14: 49
                +5

                I will give you a link with pleasure. I do not mind sharing my knowledge ...
                ... When was the RF adopted? How many are ordered? When did she enter the army? wink

                Do not spin like Already, you claimed that TOU is controlled by wire laughing
                ... Follow the rules of the site since you hang around here and you will be happy.
                ... I study and share knowledge with the public. What can you brag about, CEP?
                ... Breaking site rules is ugly. Don't like the rules? Go to another site. hi

                You wipe yourself here. I am in Russia and communicate on a Russian-language site. Who and where to go here, not for you to decide laughing
                On this communication with you, you can end negative
                Drum on negative
                1. Professor
                  Professor 11 July 2016 15: 00
                  +2
                  Quote: Andrey K
                  Do not spin like Already, you claimed that TOU is controlled by wire

                  When was the RF adopted? How many are ordered? When did she enter the army? How about the shot I forgot? wink

                  Quote: Andrey K
                  You wipe yourself here. I am in Russia and communicate on a Russian-language site. Who and where to go here, not for you to decide

                  Like not you. By the way wwww.topwar.ru is located in Germany.
                  http://statsmentor.net/www.topwar.ru
                  Do you have German citizenship? Are you Russian? wink

                  Quote: Andrey K
                  On this communication with you, you can end

                  As usual, they sat in a puddle and tear. Do not praise.
                  1. Andrey K
                    Andrey K 11 July 2016 15: 08
                    +5
                    When was the RF adopted? How many are ordered? When did she enter the army? How about the shot I forgot? wink

                    See a couple of comments above.
                    Do you have German citizenship? Are you Russian? wink

                    I look like a Jew wassat
                    I am very well with my citizenship.
                    As usual, they sat in a puddle and tear.

                    Puddles call your verbal rubbish and trolling. Yes, somehow I did not try to compete with you in this.
                    Do not praise.

                    In Russian - not hvоwright hi
                    And in my opinion - do not wait laughing
                  2. archipelaggulag
                    archipelaggulag 11 July 2016 20: 42
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor

                    By the way wwww.topwar.ru is located in Germany.

                    And when topwar.ru once again calls for abandoning everything Western, I furtively glance at this card and wipe my tear away ...
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 12 July 2016 06: 42
                      0
                      Quote: archipelaggulag
                      And when topwar.ru once again calls for abandoning everything Western, I furtively glance at this card and wipe my tear away ...

                      The record of all records is to go to a German site and yell: "I am in Russia and communicate on a Russian-language site." I can also say: "I am in Israel and communicate on a Russian-language site." So what? request
    6. Gray brother
      Gray brother 11 July 2016 11: 20
      +2
      Quote: Andrey K
      More like the truth. About the super-specialists who shot down the Mi-25 from TOW - this is from the realm of fantasy.

      In Slavyansk, they were shooting down from an ATGM, from the "Fagot". Why not from Tou?
      1. Andrey K
        Andrey K 11 July 2016 12: 57
        +5
        Quote: Gray Brother
        In Slavyansk, they were shooting down from an ATGM, from the "Fagot". Why not from Tou?

        Who told you that you can't shoot down a helicopter from TOW? Can. But for this you need to have a professional - a specialist, not a barmale, who, "for good luck", jumped out of the snuffbox like a devil and for the second time in his life he approached the anti-tank missile system (the first time he saw it in the training camp, he even quite likely touched it ), immediately shot down a helicopter flying at a speed of about 300 km / h.
        Burning on the ground - quite possibly in the air - is difficult. For barmaley - almost a fantasy.
        1. Gray brother
          Gray brother 11 July 2016 14: 36
          0
          Quote: Andrey K
          for the second time in his life, going up to an anti-tank missile system (the first time he saw him in a training camp, he even quite likely touched him)

          You can, directly, think that upon exiting the training at once everything for minced meat is processed. smile
          Stopudovo there are also seasoned, with experience, capable of catching a helicopter after catching up (which, by the way, is easier than if he were walking along the transverse course).
          1. Andrey K
            Andrey K 11 July 2016 15: 44
            +5
            Quote: Gray Brother
            You can, directly, think that upon exiting the training at once everything for minced meat is processed. smile
            Stopudovo there are also seasoned, with experience, capable of catching a helicopter after catching up (which, by the way, is easier than if he were walking along the transverse course).

            I will not argue with you. There are also seasoned ones. But based on the events of the past six months, we can say with confidence that your words about "processing for minced meat" are not an empty phrase. The losses, based on the capabilities of both sides, are simply colossal. Barmaley are cannon fodder, they do not have time to recruit, let alone teach. According to the latest information, at the moment, the losses among terrorists amounted to more than 50%, compared with the beginning of the active phase of the DB.
        2. Parsec
          Parsec 11 July 2016 14: 53
          +1
          It all depends on the angular velocity of the target relative to the shooter.

          If flying directly into the forehead at a low altitude, the angular velocity is very low. Can.
        3. rati
          rati 12 July 2016 04: 41
          0
          then it was not barmalei, but PMC
    7. Bayonet
      Bayonet 11 July 2016 12: 15
      +2
      Quote: Andrey K
      More like the truth. About super-specialists who shot down the Mi-25 from TOW - this is from the realm of fantasy

      To get from a cannon to the tail boom of a flying helicopter is also no less fantastic!
      1. Andrey K
        Andrey K 11 July 2016 12: 21
        +5
        Quote: Bayonet
        To get from a cannon to the tail boom of a flying helicopter is also no less fantastic!

        We are talking about the S-60, so, for every fireman. This, as you put it, "cannon" was created just for this - this is its narrow specificity hi
        It anti-aircraft gunCarl anti-aircraft hi
        Rate of fire from 105 to 120 shots. Initial projectile speed: 1000 m / s. Firing area in height: 5000 m. Firing area in range: 6000 m. Here, from it, getting into a helicopter and simply smashing it to pieces is absolutely easy.
        1. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
          Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 11 July 2016 12: 42
          0
          You are not giving the 57mm ARP rate of fire, but, so to speak, the "performance" of the battery.
          1. Andrey K
            Andrey K 11 July 2016 13: 49
            +5
            57mm AZP and S-60 are one and the same thing.
            I give the rate of fire of the product described in the article.
            How barmalei use this anti-aircraft gun, as part of a battery or one at a time, is another matter. A colleague doubted the capabilities of this tool - I described these features hi
            During the 1991 Gulf War, Iraqi crews from these guns managed to shoot down several American and British aircraft.
            1. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
              Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 11 July 2016 14: 25
              +1
              I taught him for 4 years at the military department of Kharkov State University, and then 2 months at a training camp in Dnepropetrovsk (1973). The descriptions give the estimated rate of fire, but in practice, this is not the rate of fire, but the rate. Not a single loader (even those "moose"), and during the training I saw more than 40 people, could not submit the third magazine earlier than the seventh second, and the carriers (2 standard + mech-water of the tractor) did not have time to bring clips for the rate of fire more 60 rounds per minute. Students are curious people, they specially timed. And how much butter (the main prize, plus soda and biscuits) was lost in these competitions ... In addition, when shooting in long bursts, the height of the charging chamber increases sharply and the barrel overheats, which leads to the breakthrough of powder gases and "spitting". And one more clarification: the S-60 is a battery complex, which includes 4-6 (possibly up to 8, according to the number of cable connectors of the CRYA. But when firing in automatic mode, when the "SONKA" and "puzika" are working, with 8 -m guns, the diesel engine will howl and smoke) 57mm ARP. Sorry if I dispelled your illusions. Although we must pay tribute, the complex is very nice and easy to use. Especially with "Vase"
              1. Andrey K
                Andrey K 11 July 2016 14: 41
                +5
                Quote: Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
                I taught him for 4 years at the military department of Kharkov State University, and then 2 months at the training camp in Dnepropetrovsk (1973) The descriptions give the estimated rate of fire, but in practice, this is not the rate of fire, but the rate ... ... Sorry if I dispelled your illusions ... Although we must pay tribute, the complex is very nice and easy to use. Especially with "Vase"

                Nothing terrible colleague, no illusions dispelled. I very much doubt the availability of 2-3 guns at barmaley, not like 8 what
                It is likely that a couple of clips, they still could throw - respectively, from 12 to 16 shots could do hi
                In any case, we are now guessing on the "coffee grounds", information is zero. The barmaley beat their heels in the chest, there are some misunderstandings from our MO too ...
                1. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
                  Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 11 July 2016 14: 56
                  0
                  Most likely they were "beating" in pursuit, otherwise the second helicopter should have seen the dust and smoke of the shot. Yes, and there were hardly more than two rounds of rounds, and these are 8 rounds (where did the number 5 rounds in the clip come from? There are 5 of them in the shell box, one of them is cumulative.)
                  1. Andrey K
                    Andrey K 11 July 2016 15: 49
                    +5
                    Quote: Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
                    Most likely they were "beating" in pursuit, otherwise the second helicopter should have seen the dust and smoke of the shot. Yes, and there were hardly more than two rounds of rounds, and these are 8 rounds (where did the number 5 rounds in the clip come from? There are 5 of them in the shell box, one of them is cumulative.)

                    Thats exactly what I mean hi
        2. psiho117
          psiho117 11 July 2016 14: 48
          0
          Quote: Andrey K
          It is from it that to get into a helicopter and simply smash it to pieces is absolutely no problem.

          Nonsense. You have no idea about the work of MZA. Just from such old men without rituals and a tambourine - to hell where you get.
          This on the ground can be shot "somewhere there."
          For firing at an air target, a prepared and targeted position with landmarks is required, a trained battery commander is required, a platoon of control is required, months of blasting and combat coordination are required.
          To think that an uneducated chock (necessarily with the spell "Allah-barn"), in the conditions of high mountains and hot climate, will suddenly be able to get into a fast-flying helicopter? From an old S-60 without a sight? Yes, even on the video you can see how distorted the air flows are, they need a cropped Soviet-style anti-aircraft artillery division to complete the task.
          1. Parsec
            Parsec 11 July 2016 14: 56
            +1
            Quote: psiho117
            there you need a Soviet-style framing anti-aircraft artillery division to complete the task.


            Not cropped but staffed.
          2. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
            Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 11 July 2016 15: 06
            +1
            Aha, and Perdogan personally sends the "meteorological" to them every 2 hours !?
          3. Parsec
            Parsec 11 July 2016 15: 35
            +2
            Quote: psiho117
            For shooting at an air target, a prepared and targeted position with landmarks is required,


            I am interested in the content of the firing position of the anti-aircraft battery.
          4. Andrey K
            Andrey K 11 July 2016 15: 54
            +5
            Quote: psiho117
            Nonsense. You have no idea about the work of MZA. Just from such old men without rituals and a tambourine - to hell where you get.
            This on the ground can be shot "somewhere there" ...
            ... To think that an uneducated chock (necessarily with the spell "Allah-barn") ... ... From an old S-60 without a sight? Yes, even the video shows how distorted the air flows are; cropped Soviet-style anti-aircraft artillery division to complete the task.

            Colleague, you underestimate these "old" S-60s ...
            And you underestimate the "uneducated chicks" who turned ... the whole educated Middle East request
        3. Bayonet
          Bayonet 11 July 2016 15: 53
          +1
          Quote: Andrey K
          This is anti-aircraft gun, Carl, anti-aircraft

          And I thought she was shooting the cores, Karl! wassat
          1. Andrey K
            Andrey K 11 July 2016 15: 56
            +5
            Quote: Bayonet
            Quote: Andrey K
            This is anti-aircraft gun, Carl, anti-aircraft

            And I thought she was shooting the cores, Karl! wassat

            Cooley laughing
            + good
      2. Parsec
        Parsec 11 July 2016 14: 54
        0
        Quote: Bayonet
        To get from a cannon to the tail boom of a flying helicopter is also no less fantastic!


        They aimed at the lead in a helicopter, the lead turned out to be not enough, it can also fall into the tail.
  3. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 11 July 2016 09: 20
    +2
    Here you need to specifically find out, and not guess what the car is hit with, otherwise it will go into practice and there will be more losses ...
  4. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 11 July 2016 09: 21
    +3
    There can be many versions of the death of the crew ... you need to wait for the materials of the official conclusion ...
    To know how the helicopter was shot down is simply necessary ... this knowledge will help to correct the use of equipment in military operations ...
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 11 July 2016 09: 25
      0
      Quote: silberwolf88
      . you need to wait for the materials of the official conclusion ...

      no access to the wreckage yet.
      1. Leto
        Leto 11 July 2016 09: 47
        +2
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        no access to the wreckage yet.

        They write in Loyalovo territory fell.
  5. RussianRoulette
    RussianRoulette 11 July 2016 09: 23
    +4
    Without formal balanced conclusions, all this fortune-telling on coffee grounds. With the same success, one could also write about the probability of a slingshot from a slingshot.
    1. avt
      avt 11 July 2016 09: 32
      +9
      Quote: RussianRoulette
      Without official balanced conclusions, all these fortune-telling on coffee grounds.

      request Why guess and wait for "balanced conclusions"? The guys were unlucky - the spirits hit the tail boom and the propeller flew off, with a single-rotor scheme without options, the fall is hard. Here at least 30mm, at least 57mm, or 12,7, at least ATGM, at least RPG. Do not book from head to toe .... or rather, you can try, but it will turn out to be a tank and will not fly. Lucky for the spirits - flew there, where, according to the theory of probability, from a great distance, it is practically impossible to hit the sighting, and even maneuvering machine .In the Patriotic War, too, from the PTR, ours got into the airplanes.
      1. RussianRoulette
        RussianRoulette 11 July 2016 10: 17
        +3
        I agree with you. You still want to be sure that the official conclusions will be 100% truthful and accurate. No matter how "well" they hit, the death of the car and crew takes place. Rest in peace to them!
        1. pilot8878
          pilot8878 11 July 2016 18: 10
          0
          Quote: RussianRoulette
          Still to be sure that the official conclusions will be 100% true and accurate.

          And why did you decide that the analysis of the results of the BATTLE application will be laid out for wide civilian use? And if they do, what will it be accurate? What is this for you? Is there a personal Mi-24 and options for its use?
  6. Corsair0304
    Corsair0304 11 July 2016 09: 25
    +9
    Sadly, of course, but the Basmachis are learning, they are learning to counteract.
    It’s a pity the crew, the eternal memory of the peasants.
  7. svp67
    svp67 11 July 2016 09: 28
    +4
    If we consider that "C-60 hits the 6 km range, and the speed of an almost three-kilogram projectile reaches 1000 m / s, it becomes clear why the crew did not have time to do anything," concludes Romanov.
    There is only one conclusion from all that was said above - intelligence did not work as it should, due to this and unexpected force, a blow to the ATS troops and losses.
    1. dauria
      dauria 11 July 2016 10: 09
      +10
      From all the above, there is only one conclusion - intelligence did not work as it should


      This is a real fight. And to provide complete "safety" of a helicopter is sometimes unthinkable. It may stupidly not have enough time and money. In the DRA, the crew of the squadron commander Menkov received an RPG grenade in the left wing on takeoff at an altitude of 50 m after the landing. Salnikov was shot from the DShK during landing. From MANPADS, 5 minutes after takeoff, the crew with Nuzhdin was shot down. They brought fifty holes from the Kalash accompanied by the columns.
      The situation could be such that, in addition to these guys, there was no one to do work once. Rest in peace.
  8. Scandinavian
    Scandinavian 11 July 2016 09: 29
    +21
    One gets the impression that he slammed the lead along the tail of the leader. I argue as follows:
    1) They did not show the launch site of the ATGM (TOU) barmalei almost always show it
    2) Barmalei when watching the video (visible) were themselves shocked that the helicopter crashed. only then exclamations allaakbar
    3) Ours began clumsily to hide the facts that they say they shot down the Syrian MI 25, and not MI 35.
    1. Leto
      Leto 11 July 2016 09: 51
      +7
      Quote: Scandinavian
      1) They did not show the launch site of the ATGM (TOU) barmalei almost always show it

      All launches of anti-tank systems and especially MANPADS they record on video for the report if successful, well, and in general so that it was clear what grandmas pay.
      Therefore, the destruction of the helicopter for what relies on a good reward for any would have been photographed from and to.
      Quote: Scandinavian
      Barmalei when watching the video (visible) were themselves shocked that the helicopter crashed. only then exclamations allaakbar

      As far as I understand, they were filming by outside observers. "Yarab, yarab" was not heard.
      Quote: Scandinavian
      Ours began to clumsyly hide the facts that they say they shot down the Syrian MI 25, not MI 35

      Our position is always the same. Even when the Turks themselves declared that it was their F-16 that shot down the Su-24, they insisted stubbornly that the Su-24 was shot down from the ground. This is me about MO.
  9. berezin1987
    berezin1987 11 July 2016 09: 30
    0
    First we talked about TOW ATGM, now about C-60. Establishing the real culprit is rather difficult. Are our people trying to soften the tensions in relations with the United States by making such assumptions? I would insist on the defeat of the ATGM helicopter, which confirms the supply of weapons to terrorists.
    1. Leto
      Leto 11 July 2016 09: 54
      +5
      Quote: berezin1987
      Are our people trying to soften the tensions in relations with the United States by making such assumptions?

      What do they have to do with it? How do you see the helicopter destruction link to the USA? What is supposedly shot down from the ATGM ATGM? C'mon, they bought it at the military ... The Kurds from Igla shot down a Turkish helicopter, is it the RF’s fault? Or when, from Metis, Syrian tanks burn our fault too?
    2. Cat man null
      Cat man null 11 July 2016 12: 38
      0
      Quote: berezin1987
      Are our people trying to soften the tensions in relations with the United States by making such assumptions?

      - urgently to the doctor ...

      Quote: berezin1987
      I would insist on the defeat of the ATGM helicopter, which confirms the supply of weapons to terrorists

      - cheat badly and ugly No.
      1. berezin1987
        berezin1987 11 July 2016 14: 36
        0
        And where is the deception. ATGM Tou is capable of hitting a low-flying low-speed target, as well as our complexes such as a cornet. Militants constantly receive US-made weapons from US allies in the region and directly from the Americans themselves as assistance to the "moderate" opposition.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 12 July 2016 03: 43
          +1
          Quote: berezin1987
          ATGM Tou is able to hit a low-flying low-speed target

          - yeah ... helicopter, chase ... tell me something else about "ATGM Tow"

          Quote: berezin1987
          Militants constantly receive American-made weapons from US allies in the region and directly from the Americans themselves as assistance to the "moderate" opposition.

          - Did the media tell you this, or did you hold a candle there? In the process of "getting"?

          Computer mouse. Bugs, bugs ... pooh negative
    3. Cat man null
      Cat man null 11 July 2016 22: 23
      -2
      Quote: berezin1987
      Establishing the real culprit is rather difficult

      - for sure. What the hell are you, (censorship), getting in there with your dirty paws .., ...

      Hey, you .. the mouse is a computer ... shut up .. in your own interests .. I’ll gobble up, fuck, not frowning .. laughing
      1. berezin1987
        berezin1987 11 July 2016 23: 20
        -1
        Look at the collar comin am
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 12 July 2016 03: 31
          0
          Quote: berezin1987
          Look at the collar comin

          - to the collar? Nude, look with interest laughing
          - you get tired of swallowing dust ... at least yes

          Quote: berezin1987
          - and in the Russian shock UAV the main problem is bugs in software
          - and we need to withdraw from the INF Treaty
          - and we need to withdraw from the agreement on the prohibition of testing nuclear weapons in three environments
          - And all of Europe, a little of what, we will throw brnbami

          Hey, baby ... would you go to the game tanks ...
  10. Vadim237
    Vadim237 11 July 2016 09: 33
    +1
    "He notes that" the helicopter's onboard defense system successfully repels attacks from all known types of portable anti-aircraft systems. " - But this has not yet been proven in practice.
    1. Pavel1
      Pavel1 11 July 2016 10: 06
      +3
      Quote: Vadim237
      "He notes that" the helicopter's onboard defense system successfully repels attacks from all known types of portable anti-aircraft systems. " - But this has not yet been proven in practice.


      according to your electronic warfare systems are being taken into the troops from the flashlight, without tests?
  11. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 11 July 2016 09: 39
    -3
    How much can you step on a rake? Like a loss, it turns out they worked again without cover. Why did the crew get involved in this fight alone? Heroes, of course, but not at the training ground - this is war!
    1. vandarus
      vandarus 11 July 2016 09: 48
      +7
      We must be more attentive. The video clearly shows the pair is working.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  12. Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 11 July 2016 09: 39
    +2
    The helicopter was shot down, its crew died, and, until the wreckage was examined, it was possible to guess what exactly they shot down to infinity. Another thing is how to minimize the loss of people and technology.
  13. tomket
    tomket 11 July 2016 09: 40
    +13
    The fact that they are still stubbornly reporting the loss of Mi-25, and not Mi-35, as in the video, suggests that the true reason will also be stubbornly hidden. In principle, to continue to fly, this is the case of the Moscow Region, but the sediment, as they say, remained.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 11 July 2016 10: 50
      +4
      They continue to bustle, because initially they said that there were no losses, but a Syrian helicopter was shot down, which was probably greatly "delighted" by the Syrian comrades, who were the first to report back about our helicopter. It turns out that they just lied, because it is impossible at the present time not to notice the loss of the helicopter. Then they wrote a beautiful legend about the running-in and how they rushed to save the Syrians on the ground, although earlier it took weeks to give such a full report (you can recall the deceased special forces soldier, about whom they only learned about a month later). In general, there is a deafening puncture of our information center MO
  14. Orionvit
    Orionvit 11 July 2016 09: 46
    +5
    I don’t know for sure, there are a lot of speculations. But it seems to me that the spirits were just lucky. With the massive use of military equipment for its intended purpose in the war, sooner or later, this should have happened. In any case, the Eternal memory of the Heroes who fell far from their homeland, to the glory of Russia.
  15. DmitryK
    DmitryK 11 July 2016 09: 51
    +9
    Yes, it seems that on the Barmaleevsky video, the abnormal operation of the third nursa during the attack is quite visible. Its parts damage the screw, an emergency develops for a while, the screw breaks down. Auto-rotation does not help ....
    1. interceptor58
      interceptor58 11 July 2016 09: 57
      +8
      I totally agree. The emergency situation with the NURS on the port side is clearly visible. There was no hit in the beam, and only the tail rotor was destroyed. It is not clear what explosion followed after the propeller was destroyed.
  16. evge-malyshev
    evge-malyshev 11 July 2016 10: 02
    +2
    “The S-60 hits a range of 6 km, and the speed of an almost three-kilogram projectile reaches 1000 m / s, it becomes clear why the crew did not manage to do anything,” Romanov concludes.

    If there are suggestions that the helicopter could be shot down by a TOW rocket, guided by wire, then the conclusion suggests itself that it flew at extremely low altitude. What could he do against the hail of shells of the 57-mm automatic gun?
  17. Evil 55
    Evil 55 11 July 2016 10: 09
    +2
    In principle, it could lead to the undermining of NURS if any of the standard S-60 shells hit ... So the version is quite believable and logical ..
  18. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 11 July 2016 10: 21
    +1
    Quote: vandarus
    We must be more attentive. The video clearly shows the pair is working.

    Could I agree with you, but where is the video you are linking to? I dug up a bunch of sites, believing that somewhere else, alas, I did not find it. Link plz.
    According to the official version of the Ministry of Defense, 8 On July, Russian military pilot instructors Ryafagat Khabibullin and Evgeny Dolgin circled the Syrian Mi-25 helicopter (export version of the Mi-24 helicopter) in the province of Homs. As a rule, such overflights are carried out after the machine has undergone a scheduled repair, in order to determine the conformity of characteristics. During the flight, the pilots received a request from the Syrians to help the fire thwart the militants attack near Palmyra. Given that Palmyra is also located in the province of Homs, the approach time was minimal. The pilots attacked the terrorists and at the cost of their lives thwarted the militants' advance.

    http://www.mk.ru/politics/2016/07/10/video-sbitykh-v-sirii-vertoletchikov-pozvol
    yaet-vosstanovit-kartinu-boya.html
  19. 3vs
    3vs 11 July 2016 10: 25
    0
    In general, designers somehow think through what will happen to a helicopter with
    tail rotor malfunction / failure?
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 11 July 2016 11: 03
      0
      Quote: 3vs
      designers somehow think over what will happen to a helicopter at
      tail rotor malfunction / failure?

      ... which stops throwing off the air flow that compensates for the torque from the rotor. The result will be the rotation of the helicopter fuselage in the direction of rotation of the rotor. The easiest way to invent and apply an anti-gravity engine.
      1. kolyhalovs
        kolyhalovs 11 July 2016 11: 17
        +2
        rotation of the fuselage of the helicopter in the direction of rotation of the rotor


        Newton’s Law 3 states that in the direction the opposite rotor rotation. But this does not change the essence. If there is nothing to compensate for the torque, then there is no helicopter. What is there to think over?
        1. 3vs
          3vs 11 July 2016 13: 24
          0
          Once a combat helicopter, designers must provide for such scenarios.
          And for "peaceful" helicopters, this situation should be foreseen.
          This is the life of people!
          1. kolyhalovs
            kolyhalovs 11 July 2016 13: 53
            0
            The death of pilots and people in general in these ridiculous wars, unleashed by the world imperialist powers, this is certainly very sad. I grieve with you. However, the helicopter is designed as it is.
        2. V.ic
          V.ic 11 July 2016 17: 19
          0
          Quote: kolyhalovs
          Newton’s Law 3 states that in the direction opposite to the rotation of the rotor.

          Sergey, you are a vulgar and not romantic person ... I carefully substituted for the blow of comrade 3vs so that HE would refute me, for which the conclusion was directly opposite to the original premise!
          And if you dig a little deeper, then in this case it is necessary to consider the sum of vectors, because, in addition to the rotation of the tail boom around the center of mass, there is also a translational movement of the potential "remains" of the helicopter along a straight line determined by the ground speed of the helicopter. So: right index finger "straight", thumb "right" counterclockwise, the resulting direction will be indicated by the middle finger. I was not talking about torque for nothing! Now you can re-watch the "famous" video taking into account the right-hand rule.
      2. voronbel53
        voronbel53 11 July 2016 11: 49
        +2
        The KA-50, KA-52 with coaxial propeller circuitry were saved from this drawback, they are more maneuverable, easier to control, in the end, without a tail rotor with a beam ...
        1. 3vs
          3vs 11 July 2016 14: 33
          0
          "KA-50, KA-52 with coaxial propellers are relieved of this drawback ..."
          This is probably a more acceptable option for combat helicopters,
          perhaps placing in the tail of the pushing screw to add speed, closed around the casing is a further development of this scheme ...
  20. Leo7777
    Leo7777 11 July 2016 10: 29
    +4
    Quote: siberalt
    One of the victims was an experienced pilot - instructor Colonel Khabibullin. After completing the assignment, they walked from the turn at an extremely low height. The attack was unexpected. They write about "stab in the back" from TOW.

    Indeed, in the war zone, the attack is unexpected
  21. Sergey-72
    Sergey-72 11 July 2016 10: 34
    +3
    All this fortune-telling on coffee grounds. There are already only a few official communications of the Moscow Region, appearing as the incontrovertible evidence in this case emerges on the network. Therefore, it is clear that the truth does not know. The information will be communicated to the persons regarding their part and that’s all. To the crew, let the earth rest in peace for them, they did their work honestly, the rest is on the conscience of the state.
  22. Dimas54
    Dimas54 11 July 2016 10: 39
    0
    video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnHq3Ony9ss

    and here
    http://www.newsru.com/world/10jul2016/su35.html
  23. Avis24
    Avis24 11 July 2016 10: 44
    +7
    I read your comments and exhausted outrage. What stupid, illiterate, not knowing the essence and physical essence of the phenomena and just inattentively watching the video. In the video, the couple, also led by an ace, and from this position could not work on the master. If you look closely, it is noticeable that a large caliber burst hit, one of the shells was exactly in the tail or intermediate gearbox, oil (if it was a high-explosive shell) got flashed. Loss of the tail rotor for heavy helicopters is a verdict, a complete loss of control and alternating overloads deprive the Chances of landing and leaving.
    1. aleks26
      aleks26 11 July 2016 11: 22
      +1
      Quote: Avis24
      Loss of the tail rotor for heavy helicopters is a verdict, a complete loss of control and alternating overloads deprive the Chances of landing and leaving.

      Explain to the "teapot". Why "alternating overloads"? One way rotation. The pilot is "pressed" all the time in one direction. If there is no chance of landing, and this is obvious for the pilots, then why is there no chance of leaving the car at the very beginning of the spin, when the overload is still insignificant?
      1. Avis24
        Avis24 11 July 2016 13: 54
        0
        The fact is that the steering screw not only compensates for the torque. And after his loss to the helicopter, other forces and moments begin to act. A left turn generates a left roll, and then its behavior is unpredictable and depends on the speed and power of the engines at the moment the screw comes off. On the Internet you can find videos of such disasters. Variable roll, pitch, impacts on the beam and the cabin with rotor blades. Sometimes it just falls over and tumbles. See how a children's toy helicopter flies, everything shakes and sways. On an MI-35 scale, this can be forces per ton.
  24. andrew42
    andrew42 11 July 2016 10: 45
    0
    This is war. Sorry for the men. But this is war. You can’t win a fight so much so that you don’t get on the slope yourself. A bright memory and a bow to the earth. And, one must understand, of course, what exactly THIS was.
  25. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 11 July 2016 10: 49
    -2
    Quote: vandarus
    We must be more attentive. The video clearly shows the pair is working.
    + Dimas54
    In this video it’s just that the pair’s work is not visible, there is an attack of a single machine and after the defeat, the passage in the second frame. This is not a pair of suppression work! Moreover, when approaching the target, even the traps were not fired off (they were not loaded on board), and this just confirms the MO's version of flying not to support the Syrians, but of a test flight.
    1. Avis24
      Avis24 11 July 2016 11: 02
      +6
      This classic "circle" was used by the Il-2. This is how we worked in Chechnya. It allows you to control the situation, usually used if there is no strong opposition. We cover each other. And I suspect they caught them. And do not believe everything that they write, there the commander's name and surname are constantly distorted, to say nothing of the circumstances.
  26. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 11 July 2016 10: 58
    0
    Quote: Paul1
    Quote: Vadim237
    "He notes that" the helicopter's onboard defense system successfully repels attacks from all known types of portable anti-aircraft systems. " - But this has not yet been proven in practice.

    according to your electronic warfare systems are being taken into the troops from the flashlight, without tests?

    How can electronic warfare systems interfere with a projectile, bullet or wired PT system ??? So far only (not all), blind the arrow for a few seconds, so that the affected area pass.
  27. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 11 July 2016 11: 50
    +2
    About TOU - from the realm of fiction. The TOU missile flies slowly:
    you can still get on a moving tank, but on a flying
    to a helicopter - only if it hovered for a long time over one point.

    They fired shells from some kind of speed gunner from the ground.
    1. Parsec
      Parsec 11 July 2016 15: 05
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      you can still get on a moving tank, but on a flying
      to a helicopter - only if it hovered for a long time over one point.


      It all depends on the angular velocity of the target relative to the shooter.
      A target flying at an extremely low altitude directly to the arrow moves only in an elevation plane and not faster than a tank,

      A target diving directly at a shooter has no angular velocity for the shooter at all.
  28. Avis24
    Avis24 11 July 2016 11: 54
    +1
    I read your comments and exhausted outrage. What stupid, illiterate, not knowing the essence and physical essence of the phenomena and just inattentively watching the video. In the video, the couple, also led by an ace, and from this position could not work on the master. If you look closely, it is noticeable that a large caliber burst hit, one of the shells was exactly in the tail or intermediate gearbox, oil (if it was a high-explosive shell) got flashed. Loss of the tail rotor for heavy helicopters is a verdict, a complete loss of control and alternating overloads deprive the Chances of landing and leaving.
  29. maestro123
    maestro123 11 July 2016 11: 58
    0
    Before hitting, several typical ZIS explosions can be seen near the helicopter.
    1. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
      Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 11 July 2016 12: 32
      +1
      Small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery (up to 57mm inclusive) does not have a remote fuse installation. Self-destruction of the projectile occurs beyond the far border of the affected area, this is approximately 62-65gm. But it is useless to shoot at long range, aiming accuracy + dispersion of projectiles exceeds the target size, even when shooting in the "only range from the radar" mode (the most accurate). I doubt that the bearded had a "Vase". (It increases the accuracy of aiming at times, but this is when firing a battery in short bursts of 3-5 shells per barrel)
      1. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
        Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 11 July 2016 12: 47
        +1
        Minus argument please! And then I have doubts that you have seen the performance characteristics of the complex.
      2. Avis24
        Avis24 11 July 2016 13: 57
        0
        I personally saw the "caps" from the ZU-23. As far as I know, there are self-liquidators on the shells with a slowdown (not at all). The range of their detonation is set on the ZU-23 itself.
        1. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
          Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 11 July 2016 14: 44
          0
          The self-destruction range is a calculated value that is put into the projectile, based on the maximum aiming range (effective range) and is done in small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery at the rate of "+ 1-2gm" (if you miss, then at least get it with a fragment!). Starting from 75 mm caliber, as a rule, the fuse has a distance ring, which determines the detonation range.
        2. Parsec
          Parsec 11 July 2016 15: 07
          +1
          Quote: Avis24
          The range of their detonation is set on the ZU-23 itself


          No and never was.
    2. psiho117
      psiho117 11 July 2016 14: 57
      +2
      Reviewed 10 times - I don’t see any gaps except NURS launches
  30. Lightpower
    Lightpower 11 July 2016 12: 14
    +2
    Quote: tomket
    The fact that they are still stubbornly reporting the loss of the Mi-25, and not the Mi-35, as in the video, suggests that the true reason will also be stubbornly hidden.


    This fact should lead you to the idea that you are unlikely to receive any truthful information from the Ministry of Defense, not to mention who shoots our helicopters and how. In general, it could well have been shot down not from the tank, but from the tank, which seems to hint at the fact that the time of unhindered use of helicopters and low-flying aircraft is over. I would rather believe in the PZRK than in such a level of possession of weapons of some rabble.
  31. Dave36
    Dave36 11 July 2016 12: 26
    0
    we won’t see the truth ..
  32. Lightpower
    Lightpower 11 July 2016 12: 47
    +3
    There is a version that competent people express and it consists in the fact that the tail rotor was demolished by the explosion of its own NURS. We don’t like to recognize such things and it’s better to insist that the colonel who passed 2 Chechen + Georgia Indians knocked off a bow. That's how the country honors its heroes.
  33. Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 11 July 2016 13: 05
    +1
    Quote: jarome
    There was a case when the full Chinook fur seal destroyed the spirit of RPG-7


    This is generally a murky case, given that these were the same cats who killed Ben Laden and knew a lot of unnecessary and unnecessary things. And the American authorities have a tendency to clean up the tails, fact. The FBI officers who interrogated Tsarnaev on the explosion in Boston "accidentally" died at the shooting range from an "accident", a helicopter with seals in the middle of the desert shot down a lone Basmach with an RPG-7, which accidentally happened to be at the right time in the right place and with the right skills ...
  34. Kozliu
    Kozliu 11 July 2016 13: 24
    0
    When these shots were shown in the fall of 2015 ... In this video, the blind MI-24 was lucky, there was nothing large-caliber about the barmaley.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flKWM81r918
    It became obvious that the losses among our helicopters will not be small ...
    Helicopter pilots do not see the enemy on the ground.
    1. Parsec
      Parsec 11 July 2016 15: 20
      +1
      Quote: Kozliu
      Helicopter pilots do not see the enemy on the ground.


      Who will see these barmaley even from that road from ten meters ?!
  35. sinys
    sinys 11 July 2016 16: 49
    0
    Yes, with anything they could bring down ...
  36. Snayp
    Snayp 11 July 2016 18: 48
    0
    Quote: zanoza
    We won’t be informed about the exact information they brought down. Sounding vulnerabilities is stupid. If the board did not burn to the ground, they might find out exactly what they shot down. Maybe the agents that will report.
    Mi-35 (25) is not good, but no one guarantees 100% protection against defeat.
    Our pilots Eternal memory!They completed the combat mission, saved other lives at the cost of their ...

    I agree. The main thing is to learn lessons and to suppress this evil.
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. Bayun
    Bayun 11 July 2016 21: 16
    0
    Eternal memory to the Heroes.

    The trouble with the SMART network-forum is that they look everywhere for the MIND. And "stray bullets" are not counted. They shot SOMETHING and ... hit.
  39. lockout
    lockout 11 July 2016 22: 45
    0
    Another article to dust citizens with a bunch of awkward versions. Isn’t it so difficult to determine what was shot down, even if there is a video? Disinformation feeds both their own and those of others. I personally do not understand why not immediately recognize human losses and say who brought down how. And so the Americans lie that our Moscow region is lying. Like, eat, slave, whatever they feed you, and do not try to comprehend anything, for all is a great military secret.
    I immediately apologize to the most impressionable visitors of this forum, if I touched tender feelings.
  40. loki565
    loki565 12 July 2016 01: 50
    0
    Very similar to MANPADS

  41. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
    Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 12 July 2016 09: 18
    +1
    I found (by accident) a video of shelling a helicopter. If this is the case, then my opinion is:
    The helicopter shot down as a result of firing at it from a 57mm AZP (one!) For this, it says the following:
    1 shots (capacity of one clip).
    2. All shots with equal intervals between them (firing a short burst).
    3. The whole line went in 2,5 - 3 seconds (firing rate 57mm AZP).
    4. Shooting was carried out in pursuit, but not at the maximum range (offhand 20-25gm), as evidenced by the displacement of the breaks from the nose to the tail and practically one point in space, in which the shells explode, there is practically no dispersion, which is typical for these guns (scattering becomes noticeable after 30gm). The course of the helicopter is "from the battery", the gun is located slightly to the right of the course (at the moment of the destruction of the helicopter, the angle between the course of the vehicle and the trajectory of the projectiles is not more than 10 degrees, with a larger angle - a different picture of explosions.)
    5. The gun was aimed at the anticipated point and didn’t shoot at the target, but at the shells spent in the store (if there were a second clip, there would be at least one more gap.) No adjustment was made and the gunners did not follow the target. Stupidly pointed to a point and pressed the descent pedal until a single click feeder store.
    In general, I had the opinion that the last shell hit the tail rotor blade and exploded destroyed its gearbox.
    1. strobotron
      strobotron 12 July 2016 10: 58
      +2
      I agree with Gregory. Upon careful viewing of the video, there was a feeling that the flashes under the bottom of the helicopter were the result of small-caliber anti-aircraft shells being hit (the helicopter suffered these hits). The last shot hit the tail, causing its destruction.
      1. Bumka
        Bumka 12 July 2016 11: 25
        0
        You can consider self-explosion on your own NURS ?! Something on the video is not all clear. Or maybe the rear shot by accident? In short, what to guess, we must look at the results of the investigation! And what are the cameras on them? The back could shoot what, how! A primitive of some kind, if not for the video of spirits, then there would have been nothing at all!
      2. Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich
        Ryabtsev Grigory Evgenievich 12 July 2016 12: 05
        0
        Pavel, three explosions in the fuselage area (or whatever it is called for helicopters) occur when the projectile touches tangentially (a high-explosive fragmentation projectile fuse at the 57mm AZP is probably the most sensitive of all existing ones, after being put on a combat platoon when firing, there were cases of operation even when hit into a fabric shield, into gauze!). For a helicopter, these explosions are few (large mass), and for the tail rotor - enough to offset the axis. As a result, an explosion of a distorted gearbox