Military Review

What killed Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov? As in the revolutionary Rostov dealt with the head of the gendarmes

117
It was bright and hot, as always at this time in Rostov-on-Don, the August evening. An elderly man was approaching a two-story house on the corner of Dmitrievskaya Street and Bratsky Lane. He was able to complete the work in the service only at half past eight. Then the road is by tram along Bolshaya Sadovaya Street. And here he is - Bratsky lane, the door to the entrance. At the corner with Dmitrievskaya was some company. The youth always loves the evening - a girl, three guys ... A man did not pay attention to them. He stopped at the door, began to open the door with a key. At this time, a guy separated from a group of young people. With a discreet movement, he pulled a small revolver out of his pocket. Five shots in the back ... The person entering the door did not even immediately understand what was the matter, but the three guys standing on the corner of the street rushed to run.


What killed Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov? As in the revolutionary Rostov dealt with the head of the gendarmes


Soon the whole of Rostov already knew - at the entrance of his own house in Bratsky Lane, Lieutenant Colonel Ilya Vasilyevich Ivanov (1848-1905) —the head of the Rostov branch of the Vladikavkaz gendarme police department of the railway — was mortally wounded. He also lodged in a house on the corner of Dmitrievskaya street (nowadays it is Shaumyan street) and Bratsk lane. Despite his age - and Ivanov was already 57 years old - he was a strong man. Even after five shots in the back, the gendarme lieutenant colonel remained on his feet. He climbed the stairs and entered his apartment. Ivanova was met by his wife's sister, Maria Kosorotova. The lieutenant colonel told her that he had been wounded, then he went to his office, laid the clock on the table and said, "Doctor, Doctor!" Kosorotova phoned the doctor, but no one picked up the phone. In the meantime, the lieutenant colonel became completely ill. He fell from his chair, and Ivanov's wife, Emilia, ran into his sister’s cries. She immediately ran out into the street, caught a cab driver and rushed after the doctor, but when the doctor arrived, all he could do was to state the death of the gendarme lieutenant colonel, which had resulted from five gunshot wounds.

Ilya Vasilyevich Ivanov was distinguished by his cool temper and uncompromising. For more than twenty years, from 1882, he served in the Separate Corps of Gendarmes, and in 1901 he headed the Rostov branch of the Vladikavkaz Gendarme Police Directorate of the railway. It was a very responsible position, especially in such a difficult time. Do not forget that the railroad took an active part in the revolutionary movement.

In Rostov-on-Don, the epicenter of the revolutionary movement became the main workshops of the Vladikavkaz railway. Most of the workers of this enterprise lived in Pociernice settlement, a workers' settlement, located on the slopes of a hill and separated from the city center by the Temernik river. It was then poor settlement, with all the problems inherent in the working "ghetto". Not surprisingly, among the youth of the village, revolutionary ideas began to gain popularity. Young workers believed that they could achieve a significant improvement in their lives through the revolutionary struggle. The main enemies they saw, of course, were factory bosses, gendarmes and policemen. The Don Committee of the Russian Social-Democratic Workers' Party enjoyed the greatest influence among the workers. The young workers were characterized by social radicalism, due to the combination of revolutionary ideas and the hatred of the rich and the police inherent in the disadvantaged social strata. Therefore, the militants of the Rostov working squad treated not badly the methods of individual terror, which were criticized by the social democratic leadership. Many workers moved from the Bolsheviks to the anarchists, from the anarchists to the Bolsheviks. Thus, one of the leaders of the anarchist group was, for example, Semyon Sabinin - the younger brother of Vitaly Sabinin, better known as Anatoly Sobino (in honor of Sobino, who died on the barricades during the December 1905 uprising of the year), today a street and park in Rostov Don).



In November, 1902 in Rostov-on-Don, at the Main workshops of the Vladikavkaz railway, a grand strike began. By the way, it was mentioned by V.I. Lenin in the newspaper "Iskra" - as an example of an organized and large-scale performance of Russian workers. It is clear that the lieutenant colonel Ivanov, who was responsible for political and public security at the railway facilities in Rostov, took part in suppressing the strike.

After the suppression of the 1902 strike, the revolutionary movement in Rostov-on-Don abated somewhat, but after two and a half years, at the beginning of 1905, even more mass-working demonstrations began in Russia, covering the whole country. The main workshops of the Vladikavkaz railway did not stand aside. 15 July 1905 of the year, early in the morning, another strike began in the workshops. They gathered around 500 workers shouting revolutionary slogans. The excited strikers went to the locomotive depot, where they broke the glass, but they could not break into the room. Then the crowd rushed along the station platform to the 3 class waiting room and the telegraph office, also with the aim of crushing it. On the way of the strikers, Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov headed a squad of 10 gendarme non-commissioned officers, 1 police officer of the 1 police station of the Rostov police and 4 police officers. The workers began to throw bolts and nuts at the gendarmes, after which the lieutenant colonel gave the command “Checkers out!”. The strikers were forced to retreat. Then a crowd of workers tried to head for Don Bridge to break the alarm there. And again, Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov appeared on the way - this time with 20 gendarme non-commissioned officers armed with sabers. During the crackdown, five workshops were injured, one of whom later died from his injuries.



The harsh actions of the railway gendarmes during the dispersal of the unrest caused sharp discontent of the revolutionaries by Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov himself. The very next day, someone shouted to Ivanov, who was passing by the forge shop of the workshops, on official business, someone shouted “We will kill all the same!”. The lieutenant colonel began to receive anonymous threatening letters - they said that he was sentenced to death for the events of July 15. But he did not pay much attention to them. He did not heed the report of the policeman Georgy Litvinov. The guard of order reported that passing by the wine shop, he heard three workers discussing that they should avenge the crackdown on the July demonstration at the station. The policeman demanded an explanation, but the workers said that they were only sharing with each other the rumors that all the Main Railway Workshops are already discussing. But this did not alert the lieutenant colonel. The chief of the gendarme department continued to walk alone around the city, and did not set up security at his house. One he returned in the evening of August 7 1905.

The investigation into the murder of Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov took only a few days from the Rostov detectives. The killers "handed over" Alexander Karagodina - the same girl with whom the three guys got into conversation at the house of Ivanov. She worked as a maid for a certain Sergei Sokolovsky. The girl remembered the young people who approached her before the murder, and told the owner about them. He took the girl to the police, where Karagodina told that she had seen the alleged criminals two more times - in the crowd that had gathered right after the murder of Ivanov at his home, and a little later - at the "nalyvayka", which was located next door. There, the drunk young people sang songs - it seemed they were not afraid of anything and did not even think of hiding from the police.

Already 11 in August, the Rostov secret police received information that Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov Ilya Vasilyevich was killed by three young people - a former student of a railway school, Yakov Kovalev, a boxman, Yakov Butov, and a mechanic, Alexei Zrelov. They were all 19-20 years old. The “Trinity” was well known in the Rostov police - as politically unreliable young people who are in a revolutionary fighting squad. Jacob Butov, for example, was a student of Solomon Reisman, a famous revolutionary in Rostov, despite his twenty years of age, who was elected chairman of the Central Organizing Bureau of the Union of Railwaymen of the Vladikavkaz Railway. In the revolutionary environment of Rostov, Jacob Butov was known by the nickname "Well done". So S.N. Aizenshtark: “Yasha was like the embodiment of asceticism. Each of his free time at the factory he studied and taught. He organized a circle of workers in a cardboard factory. ”

The famous Rostov detective Yakov Blazhkov took up the search and arrest of the suspects. 13 August managed to arrest all three suspects - apart from each other. In the detention of the revolutionaries, in addition to Blazhkov, they received police officers of the Anglichenkov and Yezhov, a gendarme non-commissioned officer Shirokov, a Cossack Bykadorov. During the arrest, Yakov Kovalev tried to offer armed resistance to the police by grabbing a revolver, but he was able to be disarmed. It turned out that the former student of the railway school had a small nine-shot revolver of the “Velodog” system.



During a search on the apartments of the suspects, things were found that testified to their belonging to the revolutionary movement. Thus, Kovalev found several thousand pages of the Don Committee of the Russian Social-Democratic Labor Party, as well as typographic accessories. At home, Alexey Zrelov found four receipts for collecting donations for the needs of the Don Committee of the RSDLP. At the apartment of Jacob Butov found propaganda brochures and a card of the priest father Gapon.

After the arrest of Kovalev, Butov and Zrelova, investigative measures began. First, 14 of August, they were shown by Praskovye Vasilchikova - this girl was standing at the time of the murder near a seed shopwoman, who was sitting next to the entrance of Ivanov's house, and saw a certain young man shoot at a man. In Yakov Kovalev, Vasilchikova immediately identified the gunman. The next day, Kovaleva identified Alexander Karagodin. The examination revealed that the bullets that killed Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov fit the revolver seized from Yakov Kovalev during the arrest.

Sami Butov, Kovalev and Zrelov stubbornly did not recognize their guilt, but were confused in the testimony. So, Yakov Butov and Yakov Kovalev stated that that evening, when Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov was killed, they walked in the city garden (now - Maksim Gorky Recreation Park), and then, around 9 in the evening, a large company went to the river Don go boating and returned home only late at night. According to Butov and Kovalev, Alexey Zrelov was with them. But Zrelov himself said that on the day of the murder, he walked from the morning until 10 in the evening to the Tepernitsa settlement (the main working village of the then Rostov, where most of the workers of the Main Railway Workshops lived) with a girl, Anastasia Butakina. In addition, Zrelov said that he did not know either Yakov Kovalev or Yakov Butov. These testimonies, as we see, came into clear contradiction with what Butov and Kovalev told. The girl Anastasia Butakina was called to the police - the same one that Zrelov allegedly walked around Temernik all day. But Nastya did not confirm the testimony of Zrelova and, moreover, stated that she did not personally know Zrelov. After that, Alexei Zrelov changed his testimony and said that he actually walked with Butov and Kovalev in the city garden, and then went with them to go boating.



The girl, Elena Medvedeva, was interviewed. She walked on the evening of August 7 in the city garden, along with her friends, Stashkova and Kozyreva. She said that she had really seen Kovalev, Butov and Zrelova in the city garden - they invited three girls to ride a boat. It was at eight o'clock in the evening. Then from the city garden the three young men disappeared. The guys appeared in the city garden, according to Medvedeva, after nine in the evening. This was confirmed by other witnesses who were in the city garden that evening. That is, the young people had enough time to walk to Bratsky Lane, which is a five-minute walk from the city garden, and then, having made their plans, to return home.

The murder of a gendarme lieutenant colonel could be followed by a very serious punishment. Most of all, Yakov Kovalev should have been wary — after all, he, a former student of the railway school, was identified as the direct killer of Ilya Ivanov. But on January 24, 1906, after filing the cell grid, Yakov Kovalev escaped from Donetsk prison. Could not catch him. The trial of the murder of lieutenant colonel of gendarmerie Ivanov Ilya Vasilyevich was held on September 23 1906 in the Novocherkassk Court of Justice. The prosecution fell apart before our eyes - the defense had built a very good line: it was not possible to prove Butov and Zrelov’s involvement in the murder of Ivanov. Yakov Kovalev shot and it was him who should have been tried as a lieutenant colonel's murderer. But Kovalev fled and did not appear before the court. But Butov and Zrelov only stood next to him and saw him shoot Ivanov. But to stand next to and be an accomplice - a little different things. After a lengthy meeting, the court chamber decided to acquit the defendants Yakov Butov and Alexei Zrelov (Yakov Kovalev, as is well known, escaped nine months before the trial from prison).

The fate of Yakov Kovalev is unknown. As for Alexey Zrelov, his name came up in connection with the events of the December uprising 1905 of the year - it was in the house of Zrelov (this is a stone house at Vagulevskaya St., 33) the headquarters of the revolutionary fighting squad was located. In 1926, a two-page article by A. Zrelov, The Murder of Lieutenant Colonel Ivanov, was published in the edition of 1905 in Rostov-on-Don. Preserved information about the fate of Jacob Butov. In 1907 or 1908, for taking part in revolutionary speeches, he was arrested again and sentenced to exile in Eastern Siberia. There, Butov spent about ten years and was released only after the February Revolution - with debilitated tuberculosis health.

Materials used: Sidorov V. Encyclopedia of the old Rostov and Nakhichevan-on-Don. Rostov-on-Don, 1995; Shvetsov S.D. In the old Rostov. Rostov-on-Don, 1971.
Author:
Photos used:
//rslovar.com/, //flackelf.livejournal.com/
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  1. Bayonet
    Bayonet 11 July 2016 06: 53
    +14
    My great-grandfather and his brothers, worked in the Vladikavkaz locomotive repair shops mentioned in the article, now an electric locomotive repair plant. They lived just in the Zheleznodorozhny district - "Zamiernitsky settlement - a working settlement, located on the slopes of a hill and separated from the city center by the Temernik River." So, as the old people said, drunks and lazy people staggered around strikes and rallies, and those who worked did not live in poverty and lived quite decently at that time. There were large families, wives were engaged in raising children and household chores. I remember old photographs, well, you can’t say that they are representatives of the "poor and mundane working class."
    1. ilyaros
      11 July 2016 12: 47
      +13
      Drunkards usually drink vodka and are not interested in any revolutions. They are more interested in how to get a drink. And they are satisfied with any power, the main thing is that there is vodka. Radical youth always rebelled. Sobino and company were 18-20 years old. So they rebelled. Regardless of social origin. My great-great-grandfather was a wealthy man, a wonderful house, he gave a higher education to 5 children (in tsarist times! Moreover, my daughter - my great-grandmother - studied at the higher female courses!). But one of the great-grandmother's brothers died at the age of 19 at a demonstration. It would seem that he was missing? The student was a mathematician from a wealthy family. But "went to the revolution." And there were a lot of them. And another brother died as an officer - in the First World War. And such confrontations within the same family were typical of that time. And one more thing - there have always been people who are not satisfied with "philistine happiness" - a house, a family, a stable income ... They go into the revolution, go to war to distant lands, colonize new lands, and so on and so forth ...
      1. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 11 July 2016 14: 51
        +4
        They are even very interested especially when poured. In February, in St. Petersburg, wine storages were immediately smashed, although at first they seemed to like bread (for sausage).
        In addition, it is an opportunity to rob.
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 11 July 2016 16: 05
        +2
        Quote: ilyaros
        Always radically rebellious youth rebelled. Sobino and company were 18-20 years old. So they rebelled

        Well, this is peculiar to the young - youthful nihilism! It passes over time, but it’s done!
        Quote: ilyaros
        Drunkards usually drink vodka and are not interested in any revolutions.

        Yeah, especially when they promise to take everything from the rich and share wink
      3. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 12 July 2016 11: 51
        +1
        Quote: ilyaros
        But one of the great-grandmother's brothers died at the age of 19 at a demonstration. It would seem that he was missing? The student was a mathematician from a wealthy family. But "went to the revolution." And there were a lot of them. And another brother died as an officer - in the First World War. And such confrontations within the same family were typical of that time.

        "There is no war worse than a war between citizens."
    2. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 11 July 2016 15: 49
      +3
      only it is not clear under such good "conditions" of life, life expectancy in pre-revolutionary Russia was 30 years !. In India, during the rule of the British, the average life expectancy of Hindus was 30 years, while the British in this country at that time lived up to 65 years. In tsarist Russia in 1897, the average life expectancy for men was recorded at 31,4 years, in 1913 - 32 years!
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 11 July 2016 16: 11
        +1
        Quote: Uncle Murzik
        only it is not clear under such good "conditions" of life, life expectancy in pre-revolutionary Russia was 30 years !.

        Then people died from diseases that now seem ridiculous. You will not dispute this? One of his father’s brothers, died at 10 years old (by the way, after the revolution) - he just caught a cold.
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 11 July 2016 16: 32
          +1
          you probably missed the books of the classics Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Nekrasov! belayapparently in the same england there were no such diseases as in Russia laughing
          1. Simpsonian
            Simpsonian 12 July 2016 04: 36
            +2
            You must have learned Russia from the books of these non-Russian psychotic classics, as the Germans used to do, and now the Kiyays fool
            In the same England it was even worse, because hygiene was worse. And in London, and the environment.
            1. ivanov17
              ivanov17 19 November 2016 19: 11
              0
              Tolstoy and Dostoevsky are very much disliked by the liberal intelligentsia, consisting mainly of persons of "democratic" nationality. Of course, where do they care about Mark Twain?
            2. ivanov17
              ivanov17 19 November 2016 19: 17
              0
              It is necessary to teach Russia in American classics, and even better in the works of Brzezinski. The first time I hear that Dostoevsky and Tolstoy were mentally ill people
              1. Simpsonian
                Simpsonian 20 November 2016 23: 34
                0
                moreover, with a reference ... in general, there were no mentally healthy people in Russian literature
                it was the same "Hollywood", but before the invention of cinema.
              2. Monarchist
                Monarchist 5 January 2017 13: 34
                0
                Ivanov, I don’t know about Tolstoy’s mental illness, but F.M. suffered from nervous excitability (read medliterature) about Nekrasov, read somewhere that he and Shevchenko were alcoholics. But Collins, for example, was a drug addict, and his "Moonstone" was
        2. PKK
          PKK 11 July 2016 19: 09
          +1
          What a shame, colds and sore throats are treated by gargling with a solution of regular zelenka. And the flu is generally treated the same in two nights. And how many people died without knowing how to quickly and easily recover. Women treat infants by spreading their breasts with zelenka. Children smear their throats in general clean.
        3. Bayonet
          Bayonet 12 July 2016 05: 48
          -2
          Quote: Bayonet
          Then people died from diseases that now seem ridiculous

          By the way, I forgot to add - stupidity is not treated, neither then nor now! hi
        4. ivanov17
          ivanov17 19 November 2016 19: 14
          0
          Or maybe even from a 14-hour working day?
    3. Rastas
      Rastas 11 July 2016 16: 23
      +2
      Listen, you at least rewrite the manuals sometimes, and then again over 10 years old songs about grandfathers-hardworkers and revolutionary drunks have not changed. Do you generally keep people as idiots? Or do you really think that drunks will climb barricades? No, dear, because on the barricades they will not receive bottles of vodka, but bullets and gunpowder. To alcoholics only earn on a scale, and what kind of power will give them on a scale - anyway. And if it is true that the drunkards and parasites made the revolution, then why could your grandfathers be so hardworking, healthy, strong, could not do anything with them, huh? Where did their power go?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 11 July 2016 17: 12
        +1
        [spoiler
        Quote: Rastas
        Listen, you at least rewrite the manuals sometimes, and then again for 10 years old songs about grandfathers, hardworkers and revolutionary drunks
        The manuals loved to issue district committees, city committees, regional committees and other "... comas" of the CPSU!
        - "Do you hold people for idiots? Or do you really think that drunks will climb the barricades?"
        Strikes, May-events and strikes are somewhat different from barricades. Is not it? - "And if it is true that the revolution was made by drunks and parasites, then why your grandfathers so hardworking, healthy, strong could not do anything with them, huh? Where did their strength go?"

        And grandfathers worked, it was necessary to feed the family, and not hang around on strikes! Although it may have been their mistake, if they had given every trash to the brains in time, they would not have washed themselves with blood later!
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 11 July 2016 17: 21
          +3
          For some reason I believe more in the Russian classics Tolstoy, Chekhov, Dostoevsky, Nekrasov, in their works there is a lot about the "lovely life" in tsarist Russia! than your fables hi
          1. Bayonet
            Bayonet 12 July 2016 05: 15
            -2
            Quote: Uncle Murzik
            For some reason I believe more in the Russian classics Tolstoy, Chekhov, Dostoevsky, Nekrasov, in their works there is a lot about the "lovely life" in tsarist Russia! than your fables hi

            Yes, please, you can continue to live in a world of literary dreams. hi
            1. Simpsonian
              Simpsonian 12 July 2016 05: 36
              -1
              Rather, miasms, not works, but one continuous picking in shit, to desecrate those reading this from childhood.
              1. Sergey S.
                Sergey S. 12 July 2016 11: 25
                +1
                Quote: Simpsonian
                Rather, miasms, not works, but one continuous picking in shit, to desecrate those reading this from childhood.

                As I understand it, this is about Tolstoy, Chekhov, Dostoevsky, Nekrasov ...
                I won’t even comment.

                It is strange that Pushkin is not on this list.
                1. Simpsonian
                  Simpsonian 12 July 2016 16: 53
                  -1
                  you’ve got the list, only Gogol was relatively normal, and at the end he completely lost his mind
        2. Rastas
          Rastas 11 July 2016 17: 43
          +1
          On May Day strikes they got them in the head. By the way, it is known that Nekrasov wanted to finish his poem "Who Lives Well in Russia" by meeting the wanderers in a tavern with a drunkard. And so they saw that it was just a drunkard who was satisfied with everything, he was satisfied with everything. And about the people who did not go to strikes, but worked for feeding, I can quote the words of Gavroche from Hugo's novel Les Miserables: “You shouldn't scold the revolutionaries, Mother Garbage Pile. This pistol will work for you. So that you find more edible food for your basket ".
        3. Bayonet
          Bayonet 12 July 2016 06: 29
          -1
          Quote: Bayonet
          The manuals loved to release district committees, city committees, regional committees and other "... comas"

          Continue now!
      3. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 12 July 2016 05: 21
        +1
        Because the grandfathers were at the front, and those few who had few weapons in the rear, then the non-Russian Reds just took their families hostage, does that work?
  2. bubalik
    bubalik 11 July 2016 06: 53
    -1
    Having filed the cell grill, Yakov Kovalev fled from the Donetsk prison.
    ,, straight Monte Cristo ,, or helped?
  3. bober1982
    bober1982 11 July 2016 07: 52
    -1
    The murder of a lieutenant colonel was a common criminal offense. Law enforcement and reprisals against officers, officials, gendarmes were common by the beginning of the twentieth century. By this time a new type of terrorist, a kind of ideological bandit, was a common crime in the revolutionary struggle - mass robberies as property states. both personal and murder.
  4. Aleksander
    Aleksander 11 July 2016 08: 46
    +3
    The accusation fell apart before our eyes - defense built a very good line: It was not possible to prove the involvement of Butov and Zrelov in the murder of Ivanov. After a lengthy consultation, the court decided acquit the defendants Yakov Butov and Alexei Zrelov (Yakov Kovalev


    Reading such decisions justified (!)to terrorists and bastards (and there were thousands of such excuses), you know, in what wild middle ages Russia plunged after October 1917, when for the murder of the same gendarme (Chekist) Moses Solomonovich Uritsky, his accomplices-criminals were destroyed in one day 1,5 THOUSAND HOSTAGES!

    After jury trials Of the Russian Empire, where even the undisputed terrorists (psychopath Zasulich) and state criminals (such as the Leninists) got a chance at life and acquittal (and made excuses), in Russia there came a terrible time for the destruction of innocent hostages, courtless exile of millions of citizens, triples, deuces, colleges, etc. comm abomination.
    To the high standards of the judicial system of the Republic of Ingushetia (one of the best in the world), even modern Russia is still just approaching.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 July 2016 13: 42
      0
      Quote: Aleksander
      After the trial of the jury of the Russian Empire, where even indisputable terrorists (psychopath Zasulich) and state criminals (such as Leninds) got a chance at life and acquittal (and acquitted themselves), Russia began a terrible time to destroy innocent hostages, courtless exiles of millions of citizens, triples, twos, collegiums, etc. comm abomination.

      No after а due to... Excessive liberalism and laxity of justice in political processes have led to the fact that the principle of inevitability of punishment for "political" people has essentially disappeared.
      However, even if tsarist justice began to brutally suppress the Socialist-Revolutionaries, Bolsheviks, and anarchists, this would not have saved the Empire. For they overthrew the Emperor and destroyed the Empire, not as a battle-fighter with gazes burning or r-r-revolutionaries entrenched in Geneva, but rather trustworthy gentlemen in expensive suits or general uniforms.
      1. Sergey S.
        Sergey S. 11 July 2016 14: 23
        +3
        Quote: Alexey RA
        For they overthrew the Emperor and destroyed the Empire, not as a battle-fighter with gazes burning or r-r-revolutionaries entrenched in Geneva, but rather trustworthy gentlemen in expensive suits or general uniforms.

        That is the essence of social life, that revolutions happen when the upper classes do not want, and the lower classes cannot live in the old way.
        It is an axiom.
        and there is nothing to cast a shadow on the wattle fence.
        Until 1904 there was no rise in the revolutionary movement.
        But nikolashka managed in the Japanese war, and ... it started.
        The army and navy, represented by their best representatives, understood the negative role of the emperor. It is for this reason that the general renunciation was organized by the generals at headquarters.
        The soldiers and sailors who returned from the war were in the midst of a severe economic crisis. The whole country was already in this crisis, and the poorest blow, as always, fell on the poorest ...
        So who to support the revolution was not a massive problem.

        By the way, already after the February Revolution, the Bolsheviks began active activity ... For the country was falling apart like an arched house.

        As for the philistines, indeed, those who owned wealth did not let children into the revolution. And they did it right.

        But only about 4-8% of the population lived in abundance.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 11 July 2016 14: 38
          +2
          .... who owned wealth, children were not allowed into the revolution.
          Menzhinsky, the successor of Dzerzhinsky, the noble son of a state councilor, Kollontai was the daughter of a general, and there were darkness of them - all of them climbed into the revolution. The crowd was set against the government.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 11 July 2016 15: 59
            -2
            Quote: bober1982
            Menzhinsky, the successor of Dzerzhinsky, the noble son of a state councilor, Kollontai was the daughter of a general, and there were darkness of them - all of them climbed into the revolution.

            You still remember the Ulyanov family. Or Kerensky. smile
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Aleksander
          Aleksander 11 July 2016 17: 58
          +1
          Quote: Sergey S.
          This is the essence of social life, that revolutions happen when the upper classes do not want, and the lower classes cannot live in the old way. This is an axiom.

          There are no axioms, especially Leninist ones.

          Quote: Sergey S.
          It is for this reason that the general renunciation was organized by the generals at headquarters.

          The generals fought and did not organize the abdication - they had no time to do this, they fought (I read a lot on this topic and made up my mind
          Quote: Sergey S.
          The soldiers and sailors who returned from the war were in the midst of a severe economic crisis. The whole country was already in this crisis, and the poorest blow, as always, fell on the poorest

          The most severe crisis with wild hunger and cannibalism came AFTER the October Revolution and ended only by the 50 years. And before the October Revolution, they were the hardships of war and in Russia they were the smallest (in Germany, for example, died of hunger 700 thousand people, in Russia this was not the case.
          Quote: Sergey S.
          By the way, already after the February Revolution, the Bolsheviks began active activity ... For the country was falling apart like an arched house.

          Yeah "Russian statesmen" появились -"Gatherers of the Russian Land" - apfelbaums, salkinds and goldsteins. lol wink laughing Recently, Samsonov still laughed at this passage and he is not alone ....
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Sergey S.
                Sergey S. 12 July 2016 10: 45
                -1
                Quote: Aleksander

                It is strange that you do not follow your advice and show (this is an unsightly sight).

                Rude and unfounded.
                An attempt to remove the interlocutor from a state of psychological balance?
                Or elementary signs of disrespect for cultural traditions?
                Quote: Aleksander

                Quote: Sergey S.
                There are facts.

                There is. So study them in a CHRONOLOGICAL order, with telegrams by Alekseev, Rodzianko, etc., so as not to look stupid with an absurdly sticking out ... opinion. lol

                The fact that the generals entered into an unconstitutional conspiracy ...
                This is an objective revolutionary situation.
                And according to the law, by oath and based on primitive class interests, the generals and top leaders of the state had to rally for the sake of the maturation of the Russian Empire ...
                But they didn’t want, or couldn’t, it’s not so important anymore, it’s important that the country was ready for revolution ... from top to bottom ...

                Telegrams can be discussed, but this is usually done in order to drape the true springs of the historical process.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Sergey S.
                    Sergey S. 12 July 2016 15: 19
                    -2
                    Quote: Aleksander
                    They SHOULD be discussed in order to KNOW, and not listen to nonsense such as an "anti-constitutional" conspiracy.

                    This is an example of a verbal flow that overlaps objective reality with insignificant episodes.

                    The historical process is similar to statistical tests.
                    The main vector has a place to be, and how to call it does not matter.
                    But individual individuals and events can have a very different focus.
                    The phenomena in the direction of the main vector will only prevail.

                    I mean that our bickering will not be able to stop or change the direction of historical progress.
                    So the empire revolution is just around the corner. I hope this time the revolution will be bloodless and even larger.

                    Did I correctly highlight the main question of the topic?
                    1. Aleksander
                      Aleksander 13 July 2016 12: 58
                      0
                      Quote: Sergey S.
                      This is an example of a verbal flow that overlaps objective reality with insignificant episodes.


                      Two words-stream? belay The verbal uncontrolled stream (about anything) here:
                      Quote: Sergey S.
                      The historical process is similar to statistical tests. The main vector has a place to be, and as it is called, it does not matter. But individual individuals and events can have very different directions. Only phenomena in the direction of the main vector will prevail. belay change the direction of historical progress. So the empire revolution is just around the corner. I hope this time the revolution will be bloodless and even larger.

                      By the way, your culturally protruding um. "opinion" lol not everyone liked it .. yes
                    2. Aleksander
                      Aleksander 13 July 2016 12: 58
                      -1
                      Quote: Sergey S.
                      This is an example of a verbal flow that overlaps objective reality with insignificant episodes.


                      Two words-stream? belay Verbal uncontrollable copious flow here:
                      Quote: Sergey S.
                      The historical process is similar to statistical tests. The main vector has a place to be, and as it is called, it does not matter. But individual individuals and events can have very different directions. Only phenomena in the direction of the main vector will prevail. belay change the direction of historical progress. So the empire revolution is just around the corner. I hope this time the revolution will be bloodless and even larger.

                      By the way, your so culturally protruding um. "opinion" lol not everyone liked it .. yes
            2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Aleksander
        Aleksander 11 July 2016 17: 25
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Not after but as a result. .

        Exactly what AFTER, and not after: after good abomination cannot come (deuces, triples, etc. tribunals collegiums). They appeared precisely as a result of the BREAKING of the normal system by criminals. A criminal is not a logical consequence of a good society, it is his illogical misfortune
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Excessive liberalism and laxity of justice in political processes have led to the fact that the principle of inevitability of punishment for "political" has essentially disappeared.

        This is not "softness and liberalism", it is NORMAL JUSTICE OF NORMAL stategiving a chance to any to a citizen for a fair trial and defense. And absolutely anyone wants to be in liberal and soft justicenot in judgmentlessness twos and threes... Do you really prefer the "triple trial for yourself? The answer is obvious."
        Quote: Alexey RA
        However, even if tsarist justice began to brutally suppress the Socialist Revolutionaries, Bolsheviks, and anarchists, this would not have saved the Empire

        Sorry, but what is your "would" worth (as well as mine, of course, too)? Experience and history will help us, and they show that a simple implementation of OWN laws (they are, as a rule, always normal) prevents many crimes (the same collapse of the Union could have been prevented by fulfilling the existing laws). And not "in the most cruel way, but simply to perform, but they did not perform ....
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 July 2016 18: 22
          -1
          Quote: Aleksander
          Namely AFTER, and not as a consequence: abomination cannot come because of good (deuces, triples and other tribunals colleges).

          Even as it can: excessive humanism gives rise to belief in the powerlessness of power. And if so, unpunished violence begins to unfold against the people of the sovereign. Slash, kill, shoot gendarmes and governors - the good jury will acquit them anyway. And, little by little, the state is slipping into chaos. The way out of which inevitably lies through "simplified justice" - either in 1905 or after 1917.
          Quote: Aleksander
          This is not "softness and liberalism", this is NORMAL JUSTICE of a NORMAL state, which gives any citizen a chance for a fair trial and protection.

          But who is arguing about a fair trial and defense?
          But it’s unlikely that the public justification of the man who shot the St. Petersburg mayor can be called normal justice normal state. This is exactly softness and liberalism, which ended in 1905 - with battles in cities, "red roosters" in the countryside and punitive teams that drove around Russia.

          By the way, with normal justice normal state - How long would citizen Azef have walked free? wink
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Aleksander
            Aleksander 11 July 2016 20: 12
            +3
            Quote: Alexey RA
            How else can: excessive humanism gives rise to faith in the powerlessness of power
            Absolutely not: in France and other England there were the same jury trials and the same judicial system, but they did not lead to the triple-deuces, and Petliura’s killer, by the way, was also acquitted.

            But during the war, that the PMV, that OY, had to act martial law with OWN lawsaccording to which all Lenin-defeatists-treasonmen were to be destroyed - in Russia, in Zurich.
      3. Aleksander
        Aleksander 11 July 2016 17: 25
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Not after but as a result. .

        Exactly what AFTER, and not after: after good abomination cannot come (deuces, triples, etc. tribunals collegiums). They appeared precisely as a result of the BREAKING of the normal system by criminals. A criminal is not a logical consequence of a good society, it is his illogical misfortune
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Excessive liberalism and laxity of justice in political processes have led to the fact that the principle of inevitability of punishment for "political" has essentially disappeared.

        This is not "softness and liberalism", it is NORMAL JUSTICE OF NORMAL stategiving a chance to any to a citizen for a fair trial and defense. And absolutely anyone wants to be in liberal and soft justicenot in judgmentlessness twos and threes... Do you really prefer the "triple trial for yourself? The answer is obvious."
        Quote: Alexey RA
        However, even if tsarist justice began to brutally suppress the Socialist Revolutionaries, Bolsheviks, and anarchists, this would not have saved the Empire

        Sorry, but what is your "would" worth (as well as mine, of course, too)? Experience and history will help us, and they show that a simple implementation of OWN laws (they are, as a rule, always normal) prevents many crimes (the same collapse of the Union could have been prevented by fulfilling the existing laws). And not "in the most cruel way, but simply to perform, but they did not perform ....
  5. alexej123
    alexej123 11 July 2016 09: 16
    +6
    I remember from my school, Soviet, any mention of gendarmes - "satraps", "stranglers of freedom", etc. Already now you understand that in the Separate Corps of Gendarmes there really served mainly Professionals with a capital letter - Gerasimov, Zubatov and others, people who love their Fatherland. The organs of the Cheka subsequently used the tactics and methods of the gendarmes.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 11 July 2016 09: 25
      +7
      It is characteristic that the Provisional Government very quickly abolished the security departments, and the Gendarmerie Corps itself. And the country very quickly plunged into chaos.
    2. King, just king
      King, just king 11 July 2016 11: 00
      0
      Zubatov was never a gendarme. And the master was big ...
      Zubatov, "Zubatovists", the Jewish Independent Labor Party, Plehve ... interesting things were happening in the Empire.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 11 July 2016 11: 04
        -3
        Didn’t you get excited about Zubatov? Gendarme colonel, led the Moscow secret police. Jews seem to be everywhere.
        1. King, just king
          King, just king 11 July 2016 12: 41
          0
          Citizen bober1982. Read smart books, and you will come to terms.

          What kind of Jews ... what kind of gendarme colonel ... court adviser ... Opera ballet ... Well, at least there are still smart people.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 11 July 2016 13: 17
            -2
            Well, at least there are still smart people
            To myself or what? or Zubatov? I humbly keep silent to myself.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 11 July 2016 15: 41
                -2
                I'm glad for you, not everyone can be so smart.
      2. alexej123
        alexej123 11 July 2016 15: 11
        +2
        Tsar, explain for Zubatov - "I was not a gendarme ..". Was a SPECIALIST on political investigation, headed the Moscow security department. He started with the police, yes. And then he went to serve in the Separate Corps of Gendarmes.
        1. King, just king
          King, just king 11 July 2016 15: 24
          -1
          You know, alexey123, you, like bober1982, are two boots of a pair. Read more.

          The Moscow Security Department of the Police Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Separate Gendarmes Corps are not a butt and a finger.
          If the security departments COULD be led by gendarme officers, this does not mean that THEY ARE ALL (chiefs) were gendarmes.

          According to Zubatov ... Well, and when he transferred, in what rank and position?

          I can advise you not to write me an answer. You and bober1982 are not in the subject, but I’m on foolish correspondence with both of you = time to spend breaking. So be it, put me a minus.
          1. alexej123
            alexej123 11 July 2016 17: 55
            -1
            First, let's not hysterics. A little below my comment, a policeman had a class rank, and was in charge of the Moscow security department. From 1896 to 1902, HEAD OF THE MOSCOW SECURITY DEPARTMENT. He wrote in capital letters for "kings". For Gerasimov, why weren't they clever? And what about Artuzov A.Kh? After all, "was not born a Chekist"?
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. alexej123
                alexej123 11 July 2016 19: 42
                -1
                I threw you a minus, for the manner of communication. In the "scoreboard" for such a manner did not get? And on the topic he confused the Gendarme Corps and the security department. In this I admit I'm wrong. But if only I would charge you with the "king" with pleasure, for insults, for the "lordly" manner of communication. Remove the pan.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. bober1982
                    bober1982 11 July 2016 20: 01
                    -1
                    Tsar, are you a technical vocational school?
                  2. alexej123
                    alexej123 11 July 2016 20: 02
                    +3
                    "Dear", unlike you, I am not a "couch" officer, I have a title like yours on the Internet. But in communication even with persons who violated the law, he did not allow such communication. The old operas taught that "you always have to answer for a market, especially a rotten one." Which is what I wish for you.
  6. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 11 July 2016 12: 30
    +6
    Classic:
    "After the suppression of the strike of 1902, the revolutionary movement in Rostov-on-Don
    somewhat subsided, but after two and a half years, in early 1905, in Russia began
    even more massive working performances that swept the whole country. Did not stand aside
    and Main workshops of the Vladikavkaz railway. July 15, 1905
    early in the morning, another strike began in the workshops. "

    When power suppresses economic strikes, they get revolutions.

    It is naive to think that with the help of gendarmes, Cossacks (or the National Guard), you can stop
    revolution. A revolution can be prevented in advance by conducting economic reforms.

    Why has there not been a single revolution in England since Cromwell? Because the parliament, the elite, the king managed to change the working conditions of the workers BEFORE the revolutionaries brought them to the barricades.
    1. ilyaros
      11 July 2016 12: 37
      +6
      In general, I agree with you about the senselessness of the forceful suppression of economic actions. But what about England - England exploited half the world, having acquired numerous colonies, this allowed her to improve the standard of living of her own population. And in the colonies of the uprisings was full. From the well-known uprising of the sepoys in India to the more little-known uprisings in virtually every British colony. Millions died in the hands of the colonialists in India, East and West Africa, South Africa, North America, and so on ... Even on the distant islands of Oceania. However, you can not even remember about Africa - what is Ireland alone?
      1. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 11 July 2016 14: 57
        +2
        They stopped it in 1905, although, among other things, it had to end the war with Japan, the war with Germany in 1917 could not be stopped.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. xan
      xan 11 July 2016 13: 17
      +4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      When power suppresses economic strikes, they get revolutions.

      There are revolutions where economic strikes are not properly stopped. There are heaps of facts in history when people lived much worse and did not go on strike. With the correct repressive apparatus, there are no revolutions. The tsar had to properly fight terror against the authorities, and not follow the lead of lawyers with a well-hung tongue and cynical brains. Under Stalin, they would "just stand by."
      1. Rastas
        Rastas 11 July 2016 16: 33
        +7
        A repressive apparatus is useless if it supports anti-people power. a classic example is Cuba under Batista, in which people were thrown in batches in prison, but this did not save his regime. You see, at a certain stage of repression, they only become embittered. And the poor life of the population is only one of the reasons for the revolution, not the most basic. The reason for 1905 and 1917 was the crisis of the system of socio-economic and political development of Russia, which did not meet the interests of the country when economic development was ensured by the social degradation of the population.
    4. Rastas
      Rastas 11 July 2016 18: 45
      -1
      After the revolution of the 17th century England became a capitalist power - the leading one in the world. Her leading role smoothed out the problems in English society, of which there were many. In addition, colonies appeared where those who could not find themselves in their homeland could leave. Suffice it to recall the English settlers in North America, South Africa, where they were given land for their own economy. Those who could not open their own business in the metropolis went, for example, to Hong Kong, Singapore or India, where trade campaigns arose, described by Goncharov in "Frigate Pallas". And, of course, England carried out political transformations, giving more power to parliament.
  7. elenagromova
    elenagromova 11 July 2016 14: 39
    +5
    The speeches of the workers were fair. It is impossible to force people to work as slaves, and not for the common good, but for the profits of individuals. Then the same revolutionaries built the most powerful social state.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 11 July 2016 14: 43
      0
      Stalin shot almost all the old revolutionaries, he could not stand them. He understood that there was only one turmoil from them. Different states built the social state.
      1. Rastas
        Rastas 11 July 2016 16: 36
        -2
        Stalin shot no one. Moreover, Stalin was not in strong ideological disagreements with those who were shot, just certain provisions concerning the development of the revolution along the growing path and the development of socialism in the USSR led to the political crisis of 1937, which turned into great terror.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 11 July 2016 16: 51
          0
          In 1937 there was no political crisis, and could not be - there simply weren’t those who were against the general line of the party. And the great terror did not begin in 1937, much earlier.
          1. Rastas
            Rastas 11 July 2016 17: 20
            -2
            It was the great terror that began in 1937. He grew up because of contradictions in the path of building socialism. The Stalinist path was chosen, although many in power from the old cohort of revolutionaries were unhappy with this path. And you, speaking of repressions, are trying to expose them as if Stalin had avenged Tsarist Russia.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 11 July 2016 17: 42
              -3
              Stalin couldn’t take revenge on tsarist Russia for the old revolutionary, it’s ridiculous. He destroyed them only because these old cadres could not stop - they all looked for ways to build, they couldn’t know anything anymore. This tsar was kind, he’s all these link comrades sent, from where only a very lazy did not run away, and Stalin immediately put to the wall, so that they would not interfere with his chatter.
              1. Rastas
                Rastas 11 July 2016 18: 28
                -1
                Wow so chatter, to build the first state in the world, based on a new socio-economic system, which the world did not know. Yes, so that today's leaders chatted like those !!!
                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 11 July 2016 19: 00
                  +1
                  Is Trotsky and the company building this very first state? so he received an ice pick on the head, so to speak - greetings from the old party comrades, literally, that he would not chat.
                  1. Rastas
                    Rastas 11 July 2016 19: 12
                    -2
                    And what, Trotsky and the company, which until a certain time included those who later exiled him, did a lot of practical use for the country. In addition, in his 3-volume work "History of the Russian Revolution" he gives an answer why a world revolution was needed - to preserve Soviet Russia, which could not survive surrounded by capitalist powers that were economically more powerful and, in the end, would either commit aggression against Russia or would internally work to undermine by working with the elite. What happened - remember 1941 and 1991.
  8. alexej123
    alexej123 11 July 2016 15: 17
    +1
    Tsar, explain for Zubatov - "I was not a gendarme ..". Was a SPECIALIST on political investigation, headed the Moscow security department. He started with the police, yes. And then he moved to the service in the Separate Corps of Gendarmes and headed the Moscow security department for about 5 years. Well, he had a cool rank in the police, right.
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 11 July 2016 15: 43
    +1
    Thank you, Ilya ... very interesting ...
  10. tundra
    tundra 11 July 2016 22: 37
    +3
    Quote: Bayonet
    if given in time to the brains of every trash

    As in China, for example, in Tianaimen Square.
    Where is China now and where is the USSR.
  11. AID.S
    AID.S 12 July 2016 08: 17
    0
    But why did the Aborigines ate Cook?
    For which - it is not clear - science is silent.
    It seems to me a very simple thing:
    They wanted to eat - and ate Cook.
  12. Outsider V.
    Outsider V. 17 July 2016 17: 05
    0
    My great-grandfather participated in the events of 1902 in Rostov, it seems that he was not even an ordinary participant. Alas, I don’t know any details.

    He himself came from a non-poor family, his father served as the chief conductor on the Vladikavkaz railway, the family had their own home.

    He was arrested, beaten at the police station, seriously ill, and later died suddenly.
  13. ivanov17
    ivanov17 19 November 2016 19: 23
    0
    [quote = Simpsonian] You must have learned Russia from the books of these non-Russian psychotic classics, as the Germans used to do and now the Kiyays fool Mr. Simpson! , joining the universal values ​​in the West negatively affects mental abilities
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 20 November 2016 23: 39
      0
      mental abilities are badly affected by the study of the "great and mighty", for this she is forced to pass the children in schools
    2. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 20 November 2016 23: 51
      0
      studying it abroad gives a fundamentally wrong idea about Russia by foreigners
      1. ivanov17
        ivanov17 21 November 2016 18: 30
        0
        greatly stupefied while studying Russian classics? Then read Ulitskaya or Dontsova
        1. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 23 November 2016 21: 53
          0
          the Germans were very stupefied, you can read about this from the "white emigrant" Solonevich