Military Review

VKS in Syria: instead of Su-25 and Mi-35 - Chinese combat drones

258
VKS in Syria: instead of Su-25 and Mi-35 - Chinese combat drones



In addition to the indisputable achievements that the Russian military operation demonstrated in Syria, the fighting also revealed serious problems. For example, a significant lag in the creation of combat UAVs, the use of which is sometimes much more efficient than manned aircraft and helicopters. Here we are not only behind the United States, Israel or China, but even from countries such as Iran.

One can argue for a long time why this happened and who is more to blame — our military officials or the defense industry, but in any case, our UAVs, as they say, needed drums yesterday.



Kazakhstani combat drone production of China
Unfortunately, with good luck, domestic drones of such a destination can go into the series only by the end of the current decade, and we can fill the failures only if we acquire something abroad.

Israel, which has advanced significantly in the creation of such aircraft, sells only intelligence and, moreover, significantly outdated systems to us.

The United 40 UAE drone is currently undergoing tests, of course, has high performance, but military experts are wondering: what is the percentage of Western components in this device? Will there be a repetition in the future? stories with "Mistral"?





Pterodactyl in Saudi Arabia
The only country that can supply combat drones, despite any sanctions and Western pressure, is the People's Republic of China.

Unmanned aerial vehicles of China are currently being purchased by many countries. For example, in Iraq, BL-4 UAVs are successfully used. These vehicles weighing up to 1300 kg can be in the sky for up to 14 hours and carry 350 kg of combat load: forty-kilogram laser-guided missiles and hundred-kilogram guided bombs.

Also at the recently held KADEX-2016 exhibition in Kazakhstan, the Chinese shock instrument Pterodactyl-1 (Yilong-1) was recently shown for the first time by the armed forces of this country.



Iranian reconnaissance and drone UAVs Shahed-129
Pterodactyl-1, with a weight of 1100 kg, can perform combat missions for 20 hours and be removed to 3 thousand km from the basing point. Combat load - 200 kg of various guided weapons.

According to reports, the Caner Pterodactyl was previously acquired by the Army of Uzbekistan.

Interestingly, among the countries that purchased this drone, the United Arab Emirates are also mentioned. It turns out that they are trying to sell us the United 40, and they are using Chinese aircraft.



CH-4 in Iraq
According to military experts, CH-4 or Pterodactyl-1 devices would be very useful for our videoconferencing systems in Syria. In addition to direct air support, the use of such drones would give our military invaluable experience that would have been in demand in the future when operating similar systems of domestic production.
Author:
Originator:
http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-16725.htm
258 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. knn54
    knn54 10 July 2016 06: 38
    +17
    -significant lag in the creation of combat drones.
    -NOBODY set such a task;
    -Many specialists with groundwork after the collapse of the USSR left for Israel;
    - It is easier for corrupt officials to buy than to engage in their own: there is less headache and kickbacks.
    PLAGIATE (copying) ALWAYS leads to lag!
    1. Logos
      Logos 11 July 2016 18: 14
      +11
      -Many specialists with groundwork after the collapse of the USSR left for Israel;

      You can’t do without Jews in KB?))
      PLAGIATE (copying) ALWAYS leads to lag!

      Stalin's industrialization and rearmament began precisely with decisive and merciless plagiarism in the West, primarily in England and the USA. But it did not lead to a lag at all. As well as the Chinese habit of copying everything that lies badly, did not lag.
      But what can really lead to a lag is the habit of re-inventing the wheel, when it is already being used all over the world
      1. Sergey777
        Sergey777 30 September 2016 17: 51
        +6
        It depends on what to copy, if it’s stupid to trade and cut a bobla, then this is a dead end, if you can argue with technology! :) Let's take a close look at the last century and it will turn out that we were engaged in plagiarism (we’ll leave the USSR 30x off this list — is it already named and should I put a mark? Since I consider the purchase of machine tools and some technologies not plagiarism) But these are three examples of great plagiarists; 1- Japan in the 50s - 1st half of the 60s; 2- South Korea in the 60s - 70s. in the mid-60s their bike was a luxury; 3 - China, remember what jokes about the PRC went, and now it’s no laughing matter :)
        1. KaPToC
          KaPToC 10 November 2016 20: 15
          +1
          Quote: Sergey777
          plagiarism

          Intelligent property is the ephemeral nonsense that was invented by the citizens to cut loot from the air.
      2. Byshido_dis
        Byshido_dis 3 October 2016 14: 00
        +8
        Decisive plagiarism? Gagarin is also a plagiarism? And Katyusha? What about Stiletto complexes? And what about the Typhoon and Shark boats? You say yes, do not talk. Or would you like to remind you how much the USA and England have plagued us? You are now doing your scribblers with a computer whose processor evolved from stolen ELBRUS =)))
        1. Scalpel
          Scalpel 20 October 2016 11: 20
          +6
          Tell me that you joked about Elbrus, because I fear for your health! Most of the Soviet microcircuits were made by reverse engineering of the western ones. And do you know the development history of the Tu-4? They even copied a camera forgotten in the cockpit by an American pilot.
          1. KaPToC
            KaPToC 10 November 2016 20: 16
            +1
            Quote: Scalpel
            Most of the Soviet microcircuits were made by reverse engineering of the western ones.

            There is no Western engineering; processors for Americans were designed by Russian scientists.
    2. Koshak
      Koshak 3 October 2016 12: 42
      +8
      Quote: knn54
      PLAGIATE (copying) ALWAYS leads to lag!

      Well, do not tell. Copying the B-29 (Tu-4) gave a huge impetus to our aviation industry. And German and British jet engines allowed to accelerate their own development.
    3. okko077
      okko077 21 October 2016 21: 12
      +4
      Again the same rake. Dear Sirs, You cannot buy a UAV. This UAV should give a picture and coordinates to our combat control center, for our guns, mortars, MLRS ........ It should, or rather its signals must be coordinated with our systems, with our military Internet. You can’t buy such an UAV, you can buy engines, cases, batteries, but not brains .. It needs to be done, to us and faster ..... The author promotes the wrong, erroneous, harmful idea of ​​buying ........
      1. yehat
        yehat April 27 2017 14: 40
        +1
        procurement of advanced designs is standard practice for development.
        another thing is that you can’t bet exclusively on foreign resources.
      2. NordUral
        NordUral 17 July 2017 23: 23
        0
        The article is harmful; it targets a place on toptany. But the problem is not very complicated. The main thing is secure channels of communication and control with the operator. The rest is nothing for us.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 10 July 2016 06: 48
    +18
    into the series only by the end of the current decade, and we can only make up for the failures if we get something abroad.
    Brad, what a lag. Only by someone's instinctive he was removed to the far box
    1. Pavel1
      Pavel1 10 July 2016 07: 35
      +5
      Quote: Siberia 9444
      Brad, what a lag. Only by someone's instinctive he was removed to the far box


      I also heard that this drone has long been ready ...
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 10 July 2016 08: 54
      +19
      Well, this UAV weighs 10 tons and costs like a Su-30.

      A Chinese man weighs 1300 kg and costs a penny.

      Plus, Skat has a jet engine, and this is more cost, again, against the cheaper and much more resourceful Chinese.

      These are different classes of technology. And the presence of Skat will not solve the problem with UAVs of the class 1-1,5 tons.
    3. avt
      avt 10 July 2016 09: 23
      +2
      Quote: Siberia 9444
      Only by someone's instinctive he was removed to the far box

      wassat Don't you know the story right? Well, when did the MiGs first set up the model for MAX for the first time, who was the boss of the UAC ???? Well, with a hint -Oh ..... Three times guess - where did you transfer, to which design bureau, to do this project with a budget line?
      Quote: Paul1
      I also heard that this drone has long been ready ...

      Well yes - the Super Budget is called. wassat
      1. Pavel1
        Pavel1 10 July 2016 09: 33
        +5
        Quote: avt
        Well yes - the super budget is called


        super is called ...
      2. Siberia 9444
        Siberia 9444 10 July 2016 10: 43
        +3
        And I look at you a history teacher! So why don’t you write the name is gospadina! Or I can arrange the same field.
    4. NordUral
      NordUral 10 July 2016 10: 45
      +7
      And the price of this "miracle" for cutting the budget? The military needs cheap shock UAVs with a total mass of no more than 2 tons. And so that it would not be a pity to lose after a completed mission (although this is not necessary at all).
    5. grandfather
      grandfather 11 July 2016 21: 37
      +2
      UAV "skat" combat load 2000 kg, suspension points 2 pcs.
      with such performance characteristics it’s not even funny anymore.
      I would like to make 4 pieces of the suspension, and yes, some show off what
      1. yehat
        yehat April 27 2017 14: 43
        0
        Yes, suspension points can be fixed without problems, if the carrying capacity allows.
        this is not the problem.
    6. sherp2015
      sherp2015 13 July 2016 11: 49
      +2
      Quote: Siberia 9444
      Brad, what a lag. Only by someone's instinctive he was removed to the far box

      there are enough traitors in the Kremlin
  4. PKK
    PKK 10 July 2016 06: 52
    +12
    It is a delay in mastering a new technological structure. The countries listed have long been working in the 6th technical university, and Russia has been weaving back in ... I know where, thanks to all our major brake inadequate elite. And we become hostages to its terry incompetence.
    1. okko077
      okko077 21 October 2016 21: 39
      +1
      We do not have a fundamental lag, we do not have the minds of superiors and leaders, they do not know how to wage a modern war and what is needed for this. They just sit out their pants and take from the military-industrial complex what they give, not what they need. And the military-industrial complex does what it can and what is convenient for it .. We don’t need T-50 and armata for the hell, they’re not equipped with combat information systems , into which they must enter, otherwise they will not be able to realize their capabilities. And so with many weapons. We critically need combat information systems, everything else, except nuclear weapons, will wait.
  5. Cat
    Cat 10 July 2016 06: 58
    +7
    Do not twist cool and shock blah need.
    1. okko077
      okko077 21 October 2016 21: 25
      +2
      We do not have conventional UAVs that provide real-time target coordinates, and most importantly, we do not have information systems that provide operation and use of information from UAVs for other systems, centers and headquarters in real time in automatic, if you like, mode. Therefore, we cannot have shock UAVs in principle ...... We don’t need to spin, we need to think ....... and do it.
  6. Operator
    Operator 10 July 2016 07: 35
    +27
    The main thing in a drone is not a glider (many are able to construct it), but avionics is an autopilot (independent take-off / landing, flight along a given route, anti-aircraft maneuver, return to base in case of loss of control from the ground), a radio system with a directional antenna, an encryptor / decoder of reception commands and image transmission, optical-location station and small-sized radar.

    In addition to reconnaissance and strike drones, a high-altitude drone repeater with electronic equipment is required, which provides direct line of sight communication at a distance of 500-1000 km (depending on the flight altitude of other drones).

    And for all types of drones, a line of small internal combustion engines is required.

    Russia still does not have its own avionics and small engines for UAVs. This is the "merit" of the Ministry of Defense, which from year to year develops programs for manned aviation, and keeps the UAV in a black body, allocating pennies for the creation of new unnecessary dummy gliders and buying outdated models abroad at cheap prices.

    As a result, the Russian Aerospace Forces cannot provide round-the-clock fire control in the air over Syria - manned aircraft weighing 30 tons or more are too small, they are super-expensive to manufacture and operate, blind and carry the largest pair of 250-kg free-falling bombs on the suspension.

    To hit the overwhelming majority of strongpoints, command centers and field depots of slippers, or repel an attack by a group of "carts" / "shahidmobiles", only one 1,5-ton attack drone with four 100-kg bombs guided by a laser beam is required.

    The VKS lag in that matter already hurts the eye and causes damage (including in the form of pilot losses) to our actions in Syria.

    PS "Funny Pictures", which the RF Ministry of Defense so loves to promote, with heavy turbojet drones in the form of tailless ones, belong to the sixth generation of aviation, tied to the development of artificial intelligence in the future.
    1. Professor
      Professor 10 July 2016 08: 55
      +13
      I agree with you on everything except this:
      Quote: Operator
      In addition to reconnaissance and strike drones, a high-altitude drone repeater with electronic equipment is required, which provides direct line of sight communication at a distance of 500-1000 km (depending on the flight altitude of other drones).

      Now even on MULAah satellite communications are established.
      1. Operator
        Operator 10 July 2016 09: 45
        +13
        Satellite communications are not always supported by the Russian satellite constellation.

        But this is not the point - satellite communications, due to the large ranges of the signal (drone-satellite-ground communications center-ground control center of the drone), have a large round-trip signal delay. In the case of an anti-aircraft or aircraft attack on a drone, this becomes critical.

        For long-range reconnaissance drone, satellite communications have no alternative. But for tactical reconnaissance and strikers, the combat radius does not exceed 1000 km. In specific Syria, it equals approximately 500 km. Those. there is clearly the possibility of using a repeater drone at an altitude of the order of 16 km when piloting an impact drone at an extremely low altitude in real time.

        Well, for the Russian Aerospace Forces it is always necessary to be able to control drones if probable opponents use anti-satellite weapons.
        1. Professor
          Professor 10 July 2016 09: 51
          +9
          Quote: Operator
          Satellite communications are not always supported by the Russian satellite constellation.

          I agree. The situation needs to be addressed.

          Quote: Operator
          But this is not the point - satellite communications, due to the large ranges of the signal (drone-satellite-ground communications center-ground control center of the drone), have a large round-trip signal delay. In the case of an anti-aircraft or aircraft attack on a drone, this becomes critical.

          Delay no more than through the repeater on the aircraft.

          Counter satellite weapons are fiction. Those. it exists, but nobody will use it. This is like nuclear weapons.
          1. Operator
            Operator 10 July 2016 10: 02
            +9
            In a Discovery Channel documentary, the round-trip delay of a signal in the case of satellite communications, a drone flying over Afghanistan and a command center in the USA was announced in 10 seconds.

            The signal delay through the drone repeater on the 500 + 16 + 16 + 500 km arm will amount to hundredths of a second.

            The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are intended for warfare of any nature, including with the use of nuclear and anti-satellite weapons (this is mandatory).
            1. Professor
              Professor 10 July 2016 10: 42
              +2
              Quote: Operator
              In a Discovery Channel documentary, the round-trip delay of a signal in the case of satellite communications, a drone flying over Afghanistan and a command center in the USA was announced in 10 seconds.

              Bullshit. Have you ever used satellite communications? For example, a satellite phone? Not a tangible delay.
              Geostationary satellite latency and time delay ms

              Quote: Operator
              The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are intended for warfare of any nature, including with the use of nuclear and anti-satellite weapons (this is mandatory).

              There will be no use of nuclear weapons or anti-satellite weapons.
              1. Operator
                Operator 10 July 2016 11: 04
                +13
                Well, you give - compared the speed of the audio signal through satellite communication with the speed of the video traffic from the UAV.

                Of course, I’m ready to share optimism with you about the non-use of nuclear weapons by anyone, but at least you’ll at least agree on this with your government in Israel, which talks about Iran with a nuclear bomb (which he’s about to drop), but at the same time eliminate all Israeli nuclear charges (why do you need them, because nuclear weapons will never be used).

                In the meantime, the RF Armed Forces need to proceed from the capabilities of potential opponents.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 10 July 2016 12: 55
                  +7
                  Quote: Operator
                  Well, you give - compared the speed of the audio signal through satellite communication with the speed of the video traffic from the UAV.

                  Sorry, but you wrote nonsense. No audio signal from the satellite passes. A modulated radio signal is coming from the satellite and is monopensual to it. what it carries is audio or video information. The delay from the satellite in the geostationary orbit is 250-280 miles seconds, and from the satellite in the low orbit it is only 0.005 seconds.
                  All About Satellite Phone Service

                  Quote: Operator
                  Of course, I’m ready to share optimism with you about the non-use of nuclear weapons by anyone, but at least you’ll at least agree on this with your government in Israel, which talks about Iran with a nuclear bomb (which he’s about to drop), but at the same time eliminate all Israeli nuclear charges (why do you need them, because nuclear weapons will never be used).

                  When Iran has nuclear weapons then we'll talk, but for now nuclear weapons are not fanatics and they will use it. And if they do, then there’s nothing more to discuss. Fenita La Comedy.

                  Quote: Pilat2009
                  Well, of course. You are being bombed and you are playing democracy. The satellites should get off in the first place. Then we will see. You still remember about inhumane weapons when they erase you in dust. By the way, was there a rumor that Israel was preparing to use nuclear weapons in one of the wars? hot

                  When I will use you, then it will be too late to hit the satellites with a barge.

                  PS
                  I do not discuss rumors.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 10 July 2016 14: 31
                    +11
                    The bandwidth of the satellite communication channel is limited, and telephone conversation and streaming video in bytes / bits are slightly different things. laughing

                    The nuclear strategy of Russia and the United States, for example, from Israel, is based not on finita la commedia, but on the good old escalation - a conventional conflict, taking enemy satellites out of orbit and only then using nuclear weapons.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 10 July 2016 14: 38
                      +2
                      Quote: Operator
                      The bandwidth of the satellite communication channel is limited, and telephone conversation and streaming video in bytes / bits are slightly different things.

                      What are you speaking about? Watch the European Satellite Championship in high resolution? And how many channels is such a satellite broadcasting at the same time? To give data?

                      WGS-1 with its 2.4 Gbit / s wideband capacity, provided greater capability and bandwidth than all the DSCS satellites combined.
                      Wideband gapfiller system

                      WGS 1, 2, 3 (WGS Block 1)
                      Capacity: WGS will offer 4.875 GHz of instantaneous switchable bandwidth. The system will provide capacity ranging from 2.1 Gbps to more than 3.6 Gbps to tactical users, depending on the mix of ground terminals, data rates and modulation schemes employed.

                      Quote: Operator
                      The nuclear strategy of Russia and the United States, for example, from Israel, is based not on finita la commedia, but on the good old escalation - a conventional conflict, taking enemy satellites out of orbit and only then using nuclear weapons.

                      It is on finita la commedia. Otherwise, you would have enough 20-30 warheads, and thousands of warheads capable of destroying all life on the planet.
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 10 July 2016 15: 17
                        +11
                        Television channels are broadcast through special dedicated satellites in the so-called broadcast mode - the number of these channels is fundamentally limited. Moreover, television broadcasting satellites are located 36000 km above the ground - this alone causes a temporary signal delay.

                        The low-orbit satellite communications system "Iridium" and the like are much more limited in the bandwidth of communication channels. A hundred UAVs, simultaneously in the air in Syria, will successfully clog all satellite communication channels over this territory with their streaming video.

                        But repeater drones, the regular number of which corresponds to the regular number of shock and reconnaissance drones, are guaranteed to ensure that all of them transmit the picture on-line. And the price of the solution is lower than the rent of satellite communication channels.

                        PS The meaning of your last sentence is not clear bully
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 10 July 2016 17: 40
                        +5
                        Quote: Operator
                        Television channels are broadcast through special dedicated satellites in the so-called broadcast mode - the number of these channels is fundamentally limited. Moreover, television broadcasting satellites are located 36000 km above the ground - this alone causes a temporary signal delay.

                        The low-orbit satellite communications system "Iridium" and the like are much more limited in the bandwidth of communication channels. A hundred UAVs, simultaneously in the air in Syria, will successfully clog all satellite communication channels over this territory with their streaming video.

                        I posted the link above to military communications satellites and their performance characteristics. 3.6 Gbps for tactical users. Stop transmitting video? By the way, a satellite dish is practically placed in the palm of your hand.

                        Quote: Operator
                        But repeater drones, the regular number of which corresponds to the regular number of shock and reconnaissance drones, are guaranteed to ensure that all of them transmit the picture on-line. And the price of the solution is lower than the rent of satellite communication channels.

                        Why if there are already satellites?

                        Quote: Operator
                        PS The meaning of your last sentence is not clear

                        The nuclear weapons of Russia, the United States and other nuclear powers are not intended for war, but for intimidation, so its use cannot be limited and will lead to an apocalypse.
                      3. Operator
                        Operator 11 July 2016 00: 22
                        +11
                        We divide 3,6 Gbps into 100 (in my example), we get 36 Mbit per one UAV, but there is also the transfer of tactical data and streaming video from ground-based means, bringing it to artillery, missile and aviation support units, as well as infantry and tank units on the line of fire.

                        You lagged behind life - Vladimir Putin clearly stated (and this is reflected in the current military doctrine of the country) that in the event of an invasion of Russian territory using conventional weapons, Russia would be the first to use tactical nuclear weapons. Judging by the decisiveness of the actions of our leadership, this innovation will be implemented without hesitation.
                        In terms of meaning (not reflected in the text of the military doctrine), in the event of a retaliatory strike with tactical nuclear weapons, Russia is ready to be the first to use strategic nuclear weapons.
                        The majority of Russian tactical and strategic nuclear charges are two-stage thermonuclear charges with increased neutron yield (due to the excess mass of tritium initiators similar to the neutron bomb), which ensures the "purity" of the charges (complete fission of 99 percent plutonium versus 10 percent in old samples).
                        Mostly air blasting of charges will ensure a reduction in 20 times of the amount of plutonium dust with a half-life of 24000 years.
                      4. Professor
                        Professor 11 July 2016 08: 35
                        +5
                        Quote: Operator
                        We divide 3,6 Gbps into 100 (in my example), we get 36 Mbit per one UAV, but there is also the transfer of tactical data and streaming video from ground-based means, bringing it to artillery, missile and aviation support units, as well as infantry and tank units on the line of fire.

                        In practice, however, even medium-sized drones are equipped with satellite communications. Show photos? fellow

                        Quote: Operator
                        You lagged behind life - V. Putin clearly stated

                        Putin can say what he wants. He has such a job. However, the harsh reality depends on him little. If nuclear weapons were applicable, then both Russia and the United States would have been armed with a couple of dozen warheads. However, Russia has 7300 warheads, the United States 6970 !!! There is no question of any tactical or limited use. Any application will leave life on the planet only in Africa and South America.

                        Quote: Cro-Magnon
                        Brilliant ... I’m using the satellite Internet to ping the website of the US Department of Defense for 1,357 sec ... and they spend 10/2 = 5 sec from there via satellite ... 4 times as much time sending a command to the drone! I'm afraid your data is very wrong ...

                        Really ingenious. Do you have internet access via the dedicated channel of the US military communications satellite WGS 3 (USA 211)?
                      5. Operator
                        Operator 11 July 2016 13: 54
                        +7
                        You give an example of the use of single UAVs with satellite communications to control the Gaza Strip, and I give you the need for a hundred UAVs with relay communications to monitor the territory of Syria with an area of ​​500x500 km.

                        Nuclear weapons have been successfully used for 71 for a year: the Japanese Empire was withdrawn from the war, peace was established on the Korean Peninsula, the occupation of Cuba was prevented, and the possibility of aggression by the United States and China was eliminated.

                        It is for this reason that the Russian Federation holds 7300 nuclear charges on board carriers, the nth number of charges in the warehouses of the 12 Head of the Ministry of Defense and 300 tons of weapons-grade plutonium (equivalent to 60000 charges) in Rosatom storage facilities.
                      6. Professor
                        Professor 11 July 2016 14: 10
                        +4
                        Quote: Operator
                        You give an example of the use of single UAVs with satellite communications to control the Gaza Strip, and I give you the need for a hundred UAVs with relay communications to monitor the territory of Syria with an area of ​​500x500 km.

                        You smile at me. The Gaza Strip is 12 km wide. There you can send pigeons from a drone for communication. By the way, "a couple" of drones are constantly on duty over Gaza, and when the fun begins, there are dozens of them.
                        Medium-sized drones are equipped with a satellite communications channel. Why do they need it? No drones for conversion to repeaters?

                        Quote: Operator
                        Nuclear weapons have been successfully used for 71 for a year: the Japanese Empire was withdrawn from the war, peace was established on the Korean Peninsula, the occupation of Cuba was prevented, and the possibility of aggression by the United States and China was eliminated.

                        Nuclear weapons have not been used successfully. This is just an episode of the bombing. Tokyo was bombed with conventional bombs and achieved a greater effect.

                        Quote: Operator
                        It is for this reason that the Russian Federation holds 7300 nuclear charges on board carriers, the nth number of charges in the warehouses of the 12 Head of the Ministry of Defense and 300 tons of weapons-grade plutonium (equivalent to 60000 charges) in Rosatom storage facilities.

                        With thousands of warheads, neither side is limited to two, three warheads. Any application is an automatic application of the entire arsenal from all sides, and therefore the end of civilization. This is an axiom. Called nuclear deterrence.
                      7. Operator
                        Operator 11 July 2016 15: 23
                        +3
                        This is called a deterrence strategy.
                  2. Falcon
                    Falcon 11 July 2016 14: 08
                    +2
                    Quote: Professor
                    In practice, however, even medium-sized drones are equipped with satellite communications. Show photos?


                    Quote: Professor
                    I posted the link above to military communications satellites and their performance characteristics. 3.6 Gbps for tactical users. Stop transmitting video? By the way, a satellite dish is practically placed in the palm of your hand.


                    Then please explain to me the Global Hawk application scheme.

                    There is not without direct communication with ground stations.
                    MCE can only provide control via satellite, without direct communication?

                  3. Professor
                    Professor 11 July 2016 14: 13
                    +3
                    Quote: Falcon
                    Then please explain to me the Global Hawk application scheme.

                    There is not without direct communication with ground stations.
                    MCE can only provide control via satellite, without direct communication?

                    In direct visibility, a direct connection is applied. However, such cases are fractions of a percent. Usually the operator sits in Arizona, and a drone bombes Iraq.
                  4. Falcon
                    Falcon 11 July 2016 14: 34
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor
                    In direct visibility, a direct connection is applied. However, such cases are fractions of a percent. Usually the operator sits in Arizona, and a drone bombes Iraq.


                    Then I don't understand - why do we need an MCE station at all ??? If its functions can be done from a "spacious office" overlooking "Manhattan"?)))

                    Useful LRE - this is understandable. Landing is not enough there - you need to be near
                  5. Professor
                    Professor 11 July 2016 14: 42
                    +1
                    Quote: Falcon
                    Then I don't understand - why do we need an MCE station at all ??? If its functions can be done from a "spacious office" overlooking "Manhattan"?)))

                    This is done in most cases, but not always. MCE provides additional operational flexibility.
                  6. Falcon
                    Falcon 11 July 2016 14: 48
                    0
                    Quote: Professor
                    This is done in most cases, but not always. MCE provides additional operational flexibility.


                    OK thanks!
                    How do Reaper and Heron work? Does Heron use American satellites?
                    And what kind of dances with a tambourine are there?)))
                  7. Professor
                    Professor 11 July 2016 14: 54
                    +1
                    Quote: Falcon
                    How do Reaper and Heron work? Does Heron use American satellites?

                    You baffled me. I never thought about whose companions Israeli drones use. Maybe Amos? request
                  8. Falcon
                    Falcon 11 July 2016 14: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor
                    You baffled me. I never thought about whose companions Israeli drones use. Maybe Amos?


                    However - do they also work on the same principle? Those. repeaters, etc. not needed - all via satellite?
                  9. Professor
                    Professor 11 July 2016 15: 04
                    +1
                    Quote: Falcon

                    However - do they also work on the same principle? Those. repeaters, etc. not needed - all via satellite?

                    Medium drones are equipped with a satellite communications channel. How communication is carried out in practice is secret.

                    Quote: Falcon
                    And what kind of dancing with a "tambourine"? I mean the video?

                    Celebrate the successful take-off of the drone. laughing
                  10. Falcon
                    Falcon 11 July 2016 15: 11
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor
                    Celebrate the successful take-off of the drone.

                    laughing

                    Quote: Professor
                    Medium drones are equipped with a satellite communications channel. How communication is carried out in practice is secret.


                    So I’m racking my brains. Really satellites give such a throughput - that enough for all drones ...
              2. Falcon
                Falcon 11 July 2016 15: 00
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                This is done in most cases, but not always. MCE provides additional operational flexibility.


                And what kind of dancing with a "tambourine"? I mean the video?
  • jasorgho
    jasorgho 11 July 2016 15: 51
    +2
    pros, I'm surprised but you are not in the subject))
    The video signal is too thick. it's like talking on voip for 1 hour on audio - 20 megabytes, and 1 hour of video is 600MB. And the communication channel from the satellite is narrow, as a rule it is microwave, which, due to its nature, does not encode much per second.
    and by the way, even the Americans and you don’t encrypt the video when transmitting it, it’s broadcast live and even intercepts the hezbol. thus, redundancy will be introduced during encryption. so earlier some members of the Hazball learned about the attack from the intercepted video
    1. Professor
      Professor 12 July 2016 06: 45
      0
      Quote: jasorgho
      The video signal is too thick. it's like talking on voip for 1 hour on audio - 20 megabytes, and 1 hour of video is 600MB. And the communication channel from the satellite is narrow, as a rule it is microwave, which, due to its nature, does not encode much per second.

      Yah? On my satellite dish with a diameter of less than a meter, more than a hundred channels in high expansion.

      Quote: jasorgho
      and by the way, even the Americans and you don’t encrypt the video when transmitting it, it’s broadcast live and even intercepts the hezbol.

      Encryption has nothing to do with the width of the channel. Previously not encrypted, now encrypted.
  • jasorgho
    jasorgho 11 July 2016 15: 51
    +1
    pros, I'm surprised but you are not in the subject))
    The video signal is too thick. it's like talking on voip for 1 hour on audio - 20 megabytes, and 1 hour of video is 600MB. And the communication channel from the satellite is narrow, as a rule it is microwave, which, due to its nature, does not encode much per second.
    and by the way, even the Americans and you don’t encrypt the video when transmitting it, it’s broadcast live and even intercepts the hezbol. thus, redundancy will be introduced during encryption. so earlier some members of the Hazball learned about the attack from the intercepted video
  • Cro-Magnon
    Cro-Magnon 10 July 2016 23: 21
    +1
    Brilliant ... I’m using the satellite Internet to ping the website of the US Department of Defense for 1,357 sec ... and they spend 10/2 = 5 sec from there via satellite ... 4 times as much time sending a command to the drone! I'm afraid your data is very wrong ...
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 10 July 2016 11: 29
    +3
    Quote: Professor
    Counter satellite weapons are fiction. Those. it exists, but nobody will use it. This is like nuclear weapons.

    Well, of course. You are being bombed and you are playing democracy. The satellites should get off in the first place. Then we will see. You still remember about inhumane weapons when they erase you in dust. By the way, was there a rumor that Israel was preparing to use nuclear weapons in one of the wars? hot
  • yehat
    yehat April 27 2017 14: 47
    0
    there are problems with satellite communications
    need some kind of backup system.
    after all, to make some kind of hanging blimp is neither difficult nor expensive.
  • Aviagr
    Aviagr 10 July 2016 13: 48
    +6
    20 years ago, I developed a unique design of UAVs made of PVC panels (like window and wall) with a unique low-life two-stroke engine for self-ignition in compression, n / n 100-150kg - all from the principle of mass production at the lowest price of devices that live on the battlefield . They were conceived precisely as ARSENALS of NUR, UR missiles, 2 barreled machine guns chambered for 7,62ТТ (as an analogue fighter), free-falling bombs, glider bomb (barrage ammunition), anti-Tomahawk-Air Defense, etc. To whom they just did not address over the years - they alone unsubscribes and thirst for freebies (drawings came out!) - during this time half the world would be bombarded with them, in Syria the barmalei would be kicked out for two months: the constant presence in the air of the 300-500 of my UAVs with missiles is not the 2-3 of an airplane, from the sound which they either hide in the cracks, then crawl to the surface.
    In general, bribe takers and freeloaders are all about (they ...
    A unique fate awaits and unique underwater gliders, robotic sailing catamarans and RDPEL arsenals of missiles ...
    1. HERMES
      HERMES 10 July 2016 18: 35
      0
      Do you have a photo layout?
      1. Aviagr
        Aviagr 10 July 2016 20: 17
        +3
        Unfortunately, I’m not even patenting without a strategic partner - the design in the UAV point, and excessive leakage of information is a gift for competitors ...
        The whole point of the development is that from several extruded PVC profiles and molded plastic parts, an airframe design suitable for flight and PN transfer is assembled, which is also equipped with its own low-resource (and cheap!) ICE with compression self-ignition. Everything - for the mass of hundreds of thousands of pieces and low cost. But there are drawbacks in the form of low speed, dimensions (visibility) and other little things.
        Similar developments in other areas (gliders, RPBC, etc.) ..
        1. HERMES
          HERMES 10 July 2016 21: 16
          +2
          In the field of UAVs and similar on the principle of technology - I unfortunately do not have the competence ...

          But UAV became interested ... after the events in Karabakh at the beginning of April (I myself am from Azerbaijan) ... I really liked the idea of ​​high-speed UAVs-kamikaze (ammunition barrage).
          Recent ideas proposed by DARPA for suppressing enemy air defenses with a swarm of drones ... are very curious. You can explain briefly and in a language understandable to "inexperienced" people ... the vulnerabilities of such systems. How to protect UAVs from interception or blocking remote control access?
          How does EMR work ... will it be effective against such a swarm ... how does the direction of this impulse work (is it possible to correct the impulse in height)? Such a swarm will most likely go at low altitudes ... if it is blinked and it goes deeper by 20 -30 km inland ... will the EMR, along with the drones, burn all the electronics left behind the drones? Is it possible to adjust the range of the EMP?

          And yet ... following the logic, in the future, high-speed and small drones will be a horror for tankers and not only ... how are the UAV branches operating in this world moving forward in the world?
          1. Aviagr
            Aviagr 10 July 2016 23: 06
            +4
            1. DARPA? I’m saying: I designed my 20 UAV years ago precisely for this tactic - flocks / swarms with the possibility of delivering a significant payload!
            2. Protection against interception is the priority of an inertial navigation system (its task is to remove UAVs from under the influence of enemy electronic warfare into its territory, where its operators will again take control).
            3. Against EMR, you must immediately design the inside of the UAV, for example, I have an internal combustion engine without electronics with self-ignition from compression. And to shield everything else with metal grids - EMP is not a panacea, although it will have an effect somewhere.
            4. My design of the UAV also provides for the deployment of a double-barreled machine gun under the 7,62TT cartridge or an air gun with adjustable detonation grenades or missiles with adjustable detonation - as an air defense fighter against similar UAVs, helicopters, Tomahawks and ground forces.
            5. So far, any fight against UAVs implies that he is a rabbit on the slaughter. Mine will be armed with missiles such as C-8K or NUR: for any source of laser, EMI pulse, machine gun, artillery, etc. - a volley will be fired. That is, the first echelon of the UAV is kamikaze, which reveal defense and firing points, the subsequent waves from the 300-500 are missile carriers that suppress these OTs. They are followed by helicopters, airplanes and ground troops to clean the territory from the enemy who have taken refuge in the crevices of the gap. In Syria CONSTANT и CONTINUOUS the barrage of such UAVs (with machine guns and missiles) simply would not allow the barmel men to move and crawl out of shelters.
            And it’s better to carry out ground operations by pushing my self-propelled mortars under the 40-mm grenade launcher with the first echelon.
            In general, I first develop tactics, and under it already - ware.
  • Cro-Magnon
    Cro-Magnon 10 July 2016 23: 16
    +6
    There was such an apparatus in the USSR ... "Buran" was called, it flew in 1988 ... you want to say that after 30 years we are unable to create something smaller and cheaper and less technological !? And please name a real UAV capable of twisting anti-missile maneuvers at least 50g ...?!
  • bacr
    bacr 4 October 2016 06: 32
    +2
    Everything is correct, only it is desirable to duplicate communication on IR optics, and there are a lot of repeaters to put. Optics doesn’t work in any weather, but if it works, then it’s much harder to detect or drown.

    Quote: Operator
    return to base in case of loss of control from the ground


    This is for local wars with a weak adversary. Communication is needed to bomb civilians less. For World War II, autonomy, optics, flying with terrain fitting and terrain orientation rather than Glonass are needed - GPS so that they are not easily detected and not drowned.
  • okko077
    okko077 21 October 2016 21: 55
    0
    Operator, you said only about UAVs, you forgot about its coordination with ground-based and not only systems. About the need for real-time UAV signal processing by information systems for immediate use with the aim of pointing weapons, helicopters, airplanes, missiles and so on. UAVs, there is only one type of reconnaissance system. There are satellites, radar, airplanes, stationary observation posts, air observation posts, reconnaissance aircraft, AWACS aircraft .......... All of these systems must provide information to the general combat information systems duplicate each other. And information systems provide all consumers, from the platoon to the planes ...... And we do not even have the concept of such systems, there is no understanding of their need ....
    1. yehat
      yehat April 27 2017 14: 55
      0
      Yes, there is understanding, there is no will to implement this global plan.
      Now they’re doing crafts of a narrow profile for the exchange of information and this is where they end
      and the manufacture of unrelated separate crafts in each military branch is called an integrated combat information system.
      Now management in our country can be established at the platoon - company level, not higher.
  • demiurg
    demiurg 10 July 2016 07: 38
    +3
    Yeah, the best thing is to bomb jihad mobiles with guided missiles, each of which costs three to four times more than the target. Look with what our planes fly from Khmeinima. Two four bombs of 250 kg, rarely five hundred. URami shot at the beginning of the operation, tested, and that's enough. Then ordinary cast iron. A UAV, even a heavy one with such accuracy, will not be able to bomb. The place of the UAV is reconnaissance, and delivering single point strikes.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 10 July 2016 09: 02
      +4
      Well, the Jihadmobil didn’t have time to bomb - did Andrei write to the market, decided, along with the tank, its crew and a couple of gantraks? What is cheaper?


      Or an attack on Tabka - the Babohas used 85 past episodes, from which some Syrians rushed to where they looked (at Itria) in the end and they all followed, because they were already cut by the maneuverable Black groups with tanks along the highway. All of these are targets for baravaniya UAVs. Here, if you hit at least 2 T-72 bypass groups - which to a greater extent brought down the intermediate line, and perhaps the troops would not have escaped right up to Itria, and now they were 35 km from Tabka, in the province of Raqqa.

      Or, for example, the other day in Palmyra, the regiment 55 from Korenovsk died. It’s not a fact that the UAV would shut up the breakthrough, as well as a pair of crocodiles (according to the video, the Mi-35 crashed - the 1080 X-shaped propeller flew off + the landing gear + wing tip is short, but the second side may be the Mi-25). But they can very well be based on nearby airfields, for example, a Chinese man carries 2 kg of laser-guided bombs and 100 guided missiles of 4 kg.
      1. demiurg
        demiurg 10 July 2016 09: 12
        +11
        Understand that I am not against UAVs, they have their own niche, and they must be in the VKS. What you show is intelligence spoiled. If the concentration of technology was opened in advance, it does not matter why it would be destroyed. Perhaps even without aviation, with barrel artillery. It is possible that if there were more reconnaissance UAVs, this would not have happened.
        Heroism, this is the correction of someone else’s dec ...... va. Two good people died.
        1. Monarchist
          Monarchist 10 July 2016 13: 53
          +3
          In a war without reconnaissance, the sheer pi *** c is the enemy’s delight
      2. Lex.
        Lex. 10 July 2016 10: 02
        +1
        But they can very well be based on nearby airfields, for example, a Chinese man carries 2 kg of laser-guided bombs and 100 guided missiles of 4 kg.
        And how much he can take 3 missiles, maybe a helicopter is better for attacking the leader for attack, and there is no war without losses
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 10 July 2016 10: 16
          +9
          In the same South Aleppo, a serious problem in identifying and striking at groups of broads. They calmly drive along the public roads in convoys, in the afternoon, concentrate in the villages nearby - then they go on an assault = there is a visible air request = planes arrive in a couple of hours, it is usually too late.

          The presence of barrage UAVs allows you to identify such columns and, if necessary, strike immediately + cause aircraft.

          In general, in Iraq they are quite effectively applied to themselves. There in the top of efficiency:
          Chinese Rainbows
          Bells / Eurocopters with a ball (which are like a designator) and Mi-35 / 28N pairs with guided weapons, by the way, they work mainly at an altitude of 500 meters, because they are afraid to grab from the MZA. Perhaps the only exception is the recent attack on the 11km forged Blacks from Anabar to Syria. But there, already with everything that worked, even Bella.
          1. demiurg
            demiurg 10 July 2016 10: 34
            +2
            Yes, the detection of the enemy on the approaches by drones and the destruction of attack aircraft. Just wonderful.
        2. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 10 July 2016 14: 23
          0
          Libya, the loss of the United States zero people, the goal is achieved, the state is defeated, Gaddafi is killed, oil control is obtained.
        3. yehat
          yehat April 27 2017 14: 59
          0
          during World War II, the Red Army established effective front-line reconnaissance, in fact devoting up to 2/1 to 4/1 of its forces. And this did not happen immediately, gradually increasing in volume. In each regiment at the front, at the end of the war, intelligence was almost constantly conducted,
          drg ran almost every day, and sometimes several times.
          Somehow we began to forget how important this is.
  • Operator
    Operator 10 July 2016 08: 03
    +6
    Yeah, it’s easier to fly the 30-40 ton Su-35 / Su-34 with one or two highly skilled pilots, priced from 30 to 50 million dollars and the corresponding cost of a flight hour.

    As a result, the cost of hitting one target of 250 kg with freely falling bombs (KVO 20-30 meters) from the side of the manned aircraft is several times higher than the cost of hitting the same target with 100-kg laser-guided bombs (KVO 1-2 meter) from the 1,5-ton UAV at the price of 1 million dollars.
    1. demiurg
      demiurg 10 July 2016 08: 26
      +1
      Count on the fingers:
      3 tons of kerosene (for su-25) 30000 per ton. 90000 rubles plus the cost of a fab 250 two pieces 60000, with a margin :)) Let's add 10 technicians to the attack aircraft (they polish it after each departure) 2 flights a day, sn 2000 rubles a day. a total of another 10000 rubles for departure.

      What I found on the internet, the cost of cab 500s 3000000 (three crap million) do you think a 100kg bomb costs several times less? Let two million (we believe in a miracle).

      In total, the cost of defeating a jihadmobile with a su-25 is approximately 160 rubles, with a uberbomber, 000, not counting the cost of maintenance (we will neglect this trifle against the cost of ammunition)

      On the issue of security. In Syria, our pilots do not fly below 5 km, that is, in fact, they do not risk falling under MANPADS fire.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 10 July 2016 09: 19
        +13
        "In Syria, our pilots do not fly below 5 km, that is, they do not actually risk being hit by MANPADS." ///

        But only large stationary targets are bombed.
        Such bombing is not suitable for fire support of troops.
        1. Professor
          Professor 10 July 2016 09: 32
          +7
          Quote: voyaka uh
          But only large stationary targets are bombed.
          Such bombing is not suitable for fire support of troops.

          In vain you take such a risk. Now they’ll run in and bite you with unintelligible analogous sighting systems that allow you to use non-smart bombs from an altitude of 5000 m well, just like smart ones. wassat
          1. demiurg
            demiurg 10 July 2016 09: 57
            +2
            Professor, why is SVVP-24 bad? In my opinion a very good engineering solution. Even brilliant can be said. Instead of a bunch of expensive GOS on ammunition, leave one on the plane.
            1. Professor
              Professor 10 July 2016 10: 35
              +6
              Quote: demiurg
              Professor, why is SVVP-24 bad? In my opinion a very good engineering solution. Even brilliant can be said. Instead of a bunch of expensive GOS on ammunition, leave one on the plane.

              The bad thing is that it does not provide the accuracy of smart weapons. For example, he does not know the gradient of the wind and, accordingly, he cannot calculate where the bomb will blow. At first there were a lot of complaints about the complex, and now we see how direct support for the troops is carried out by the old and good method of NURSs from turntables. sad
              1. demiurg
                demiurg 10 July 2016 11: 24
                +3
                Something tells me that not because of low accuracy. There are simply not enough aircraft manufacturers. There is only an air regiment. And a huge territory. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of gunners, UAV reconnaissance operators. There is no operational intelligence, and that’s all the trouble. This is not a point operation against one gang of 300 helmets. This is a normal civil war. If normal intelligence, it would be possible to knock everyone out with ordinary fabs in half a year.

                I found links and videos that talked about 10-20 meters KVO, is that not enough? Or is the fab 500 sure to get into the truck cab?
                1. Professor
                  Professor 10 July 2016 13: 01
                  0
                  Quote: demiurg
                  Something tells me that not because of low accuracy. There are simply not enough aircraft manufacturers. There is only an air regiment. And a huge territory. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of gunners, UAV reconnaissance operators. There is no operational intelligence, and that’s all the trouble. This is not a point operation against one gang of 300 helmets. This is a normal civil war. If normal intelligence, it would be possible to knock everyone out with ordinary fabs in half a year.

                  It’s not about aircraft manufacturers. Any battalion commander can tell the coordinates of the target unless of course there is where to report. Ordinary fabs can knock out the country's population, which is successfully happening before our eyes.

                  Quote: demiurg
                  I found links and videos that talked about 10-20 meters KVO, is that not enough?

                  This is neither small nor much; this is nonsense.

                  Quote: demiurg
                  Or is the fab 500 sure to get into the truck cab?

                  Be sure to get into strangers without hooking your own. And if the KVO having no taxes in the world of the system really was 20 meters, then no one would send Crocodiles with NURSs.
                  1. Parsec
                    Parsec 10 July 2016 13: 17
                    0
                    Quote: Professor
                    And if the KVO having no taxes in the world of the system really was 20 meters, then no one would send Crocodiles with NURSs.


                    Do not understand anything.

                    The difference in air support from the bomber and from the helicopter is fundamental, especially when the troops touch in dynamics.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 10 July 2016 13: 28
                      +2
                      Quote: Parsec
                      Do not understand anything.

                      The difference in air support from the bomber and from the helicopter is fundamental, especially when the troops touch in dynamics.

                      So explain to me an infantryman this "fundamental difference" when I need air support for an enemy entrenched in 200-300 meters from me. We'll talk about smaller distances later.
                      1. Parsec
                        Parsec 10 July 2016 14: 56
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        So explain to me the infantryman this "fundamental difference"


                        You either do not know how to read, or do not understand what it is about, infantryman.
                        I am writing about the contact of troops in dynamics, and you propose "to talk about smaller distances after".

                        Then why should I make another approach to bead throwing?
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 10 July 2016 17: 30
                        +3
                        Quote: Parsec
                        The difference in air support from the bomber and from the helicopter is fundamental, especially when the troops touch in dynamics.

                        Again. What is the "fundamental difference". More pliz.

                        Quote: demiurg
                        Professor, you’re like a military man, and I’m a couch analyst.

                        You flatter me. What kind of analyst am I?

                        Quote: demiurg
                        The turntable has a speed of about 300 km / h, the pilot and the operator. In fact, according to the approximate tip of the "battalion commander", the operator manages to identify targets, so he is not busy piloting.
                        The attack aircraft has about 700, the pilot and the operator in one bottle. And the words of a non-professional "gunner-commander" and even through an interpreter will not help much in an attack from 5 km.

                        You do not confuse the fighting between the armies and between the army and the irregular army. Especially in Syria where the battles are in urban areas. Neither the attack plane pilot nor the helicopter in 99% of cases needs a tip from the ground. Otherwise, it will put its civilians.

                        Quote: demiurg
                        What, you want to say that if the rooks flew a cab-500 or x-29 they could work close to the trenches of the Syrian army? Or do you need to buy superbombs from Israel?

                        Of course they could. After all, F-16 can. Superbombs are not needed. We need aiming containers and smart bombs.
                        Suspended sighting and reconnaissance system Legion Pod

                        Quote: demiurg
                        If you are so super, why does hezbollah still exist? Use the tanks and helicopters of the teacher even inside your country

                        Did someone try to destroy her? Hezbollah has been sitting quieter than water and lower than grass for 10 years. It suits us.

                        Quote: demiurg
                        Your opinion, will the accuracy of the fire safety system increase if the number of professional gunners from Russia increases? At least two or three gunners per regiment.

                        Increase, but not fundamentally. FAB with 5000 m just do not put. About NURSY generally keep quiet.

                        Quote: Parsec
                        And shoot down the cassamas with a laser?
                        And the text is red, red ...

                        Red is the link, CEP. fool Click on it and gain your mind.
                      3. Falcon
                        Falcon 11 July 2016 14: 11
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        Of course they could. After all, F-16 can. Superbombs are not needed. We need aiming containers and smart bombs.
                        Suspended sighting and reconnaissance system Legion Pod


                        Is it she who provides TSU? As I understand it, it’s just a reconnaissance system, but it doesn’t provide illumination for GOS missiles
                      4. Professor
                        Professor 11 July 2016 14: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Falcon
                        Is it she who provides TSU? As I understand it, it’s just a reconnaissance system, but it doesn’t provide illumination for GOS missiles

                        Provides TSU, called Suspension sightingintelligence system. It does not highlight with a laser. To do this, there are other pendant sighting and reconnaissance systems.
                      5. Falcon
                        Falcon 11 July 2016 14: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: Professor
                        Provides a control unit, called the Suspension sighting and reconnaissance system.


                        In fact - this is an OLS - it detects and determines the range (it turns out like this)?

                        Then it is probably not quite for working on the ground, there is a Sniper needed request
                      6. Professor
                        Professor 11 July 2016 14: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Falcon
                        Then it is probably not quite for working on the ground, there is a Sniper needed

                        Enough lightening there.
        2. demiurg
          demiurg 10 July 2016 13: 45
          0
          Quote: Professor


          This is neither small nor much; this is nonsense.



          Justify your statement.
          Does any battalion commander give out coordinates for hephaestus? Oh well.
          1. Professor
            Professor 10 July 2016 13: 51
            +1
            Quote: demiurg
            Justify your statement.

            Already substantiated repeatedly. For example, the wind gradient is not known and, accordingly, the complex cannot calculate where the bomb will blow. Further, conventional fabs are not distinguished by their ideal aerodynamic shape and the scatter of even bombs of one batch will be huge. Neither the geometry nor the mass of the FAB has any special requirements. Smart bombs are another matter.

            Quote: demiurg
            Does any battalion commander give out coordinates for hephaestus? Oh well.

            The battalion commander needs to report these coordinates to the headquarters, and those along the chain to aviators. As far as I know, you have no aviators in the infantry battalion.
            1. demiurg
              demiurg 10 July 2016 14: 18
              +1
              The maximum that I found on more or less decent resources.
              Defeat of target 10 by 10 meters by three fab250 with a probability of 0.95
              (why exactly three bombs, I did not understand)
              The average number of sorties to hit a target is 1.16.
              Even increasing the square to 100 by 100 meters, that is, throwing ordinary cast iron is enough to drive shahids. Only who from the earth will designate them?

              Professor, we are talking about the Syrian army, not the RF Armed Forces. Again, what I found. BOMAN or PANs were attached forces subordinate to the Air Force, and were usually based at the same airfield as the IBA.
              Hephaestus has sufficient accuracy for this war. Not enough gunners.
              If you do not agree with this, convince.
            2. Professor
              Professor 10 July 2016 14: 23
              +1
              Quote: demiurg
              Professor, we are talking about the Syrian army, not the RF Armed Forces.

              Yah? They shot down the Russian side with Russian pilots. Complexes without any analogues in the world would be so good, then they would be bombed from a safe altitude of 5000m, and they would have to send turntables with NURSs.

              Quote: demiurg
              Hephaestus has sufficient accuracy for this war. Not enough gunners.

              Tree sticks. A crocodile with Nurses do not need gunners? Or is he doing telepathy?

              Quote: Koshak
              He is not able to work on moving targets.

              Not all bourgeois smart bombs can work for non-stationary targets.

              PS
              Israeli aircraft learned to work closer to their troops
            3. demiurg
              demiurg 10 July 2016 14: 51
              0
              Professor, you’re like a military man, and I’m a couch analyst.
              The turntable has a speed of about 300 km / h, the pilot and the operator. In fact, according to the approximate tip of the "battalion commander", the operator manages to identify targets, so he is not busy piloting.
              The attack aircraft has about 700, the pilot and the operator in one bottle. And the words of a non-professional "gunner-commander" and even through an interpreter will not help much in an attack from 5 km.
              What, you want to say that if the rooks flew a cab-500 or x-29 they could work close to the trenches of the Syrian army? Or do you need to buy superbombs from Israel?
              If you are so super, why does hezbollah still exist? Use the tanks and helicopters of the teacher even inside your country hi

              Your opinion, will the accuracy of the fire safety system increase if the number of professional gunners from Russia increases? At least two or three gunners per regiment.
            4. Parsec
              Parsec 10 July 2016 15: 14
              0
              Quote: Professor
              Israeli aircraft learned to work closer to their troops


              And shoot down the cassamas with a laser?
              And the text is red, red ...
  • Koshak
    Koshak 10 July 2016 14: 11
    +1
    Quote: demiurg
    Professor, why is SVVP-24 bad?

    He is not able to work on moving targets.
  • demiurg
    demiurg 10 July 2016 09: 36
    0
    Warrior, what's the difference with what to launch UR? You can also throw a point with the Su-25 cabs or x-25, the whole question rests on intelligence. And here the UAV constantly hanging over the front line could come in handy. But the scout does not need a weight of one and a half tons. And again, if a target is found, then you can put a fab-250, KVO 20m, enough for a jihadmobile.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 10 July 2016 14: 09
      0
      I hope there are sensible officers in the General Staff, and S.K. has a head on his shoulders, not a watermelon
  • yehat
    yehat April 27 2017 15: 04
    0
    The Su-34 is capable of bombing very accurately from high altitude even with unguided bombs.
    He has four times higher than previous generations accuracy of shooting NURS. (Say so)
    You probably forgot what sophisticated systems are on it?
    The only question is whether they use its capabilities or not.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Operator
    Operator 10 July 2016 09: 32
    +3
    The calculation of the cost of flight hours includes a fraction of the cost of the aircraft.

    For example, with the cost of Su-34 in 60 million dollars and the resource 6000 of flight hours, the indicated part of the cost of one hour is 10000 bucks. Plus the cost of training and maintenance of two pilots, reduced to one hour, plus the cost of training and maintenance of technicians, plus large-scale airfield services, plus kerosene, plus FAB-250.
    In the amount of thousands of 50 bucks typed.

    Cost of flight hours 1-million The UAV in the part of the device is 60 times less (the cost of a flight hour is 1700 dollars).
    The cost of training operators is much less than pilots, ground personnel are also less, the aerodrome service is the same.
    Those. By reducing the hardware cost of a flight hour alone, funds can be carved out for the purchase of a domestic 8300-kg bomb for $ 100 with a simple laser seeker similar to the Centimeter corrected projectile.
    Otherwise, there will be only cost savings.
    1. demiurg
      demiurg 10 July 2016 09: 53
      0
      1. And why immediately Su-34 and not Su-25? And even in the USA, the F-15 costs $ 35k per hour, so cut back the sturgeon. lol
      2. Show me an UR or PSA worth $ 8300. By the way, who will highlight the target? hi
      By the way, how much does the minimum land controlled by AB or UR air cost? Less than 50 have not yet seen
      1. Operator
        Operator 10 July 2016 10: 11
        +4
        1. As regards the hardware cost of a flight hour, everything is elementary - you take the cost of an airplane, divide it by its resource and you get the cost of a "sturgeon".

        2. How much does the 160-mm Centimeter mine cost?

        3. The drone-drummer itself can highlight the target with a laser - all drones of the 1,5 class are equipped with OLS.
        1. demiurg
          demiurg 10 July 2016 10: 28
          -2
          Su-25 costs about 10 million, 5000 hours a resource (I don’t know exactly how much) 2000 tanks per resource price. Two hours flight, a total of 4000. We will double for airfield services, plus $ 2000 in supplies. 10000 turned out, correct who can.
          We fasten Krasnopole to the UAV (I don’t know how, in general we fasten it), plus you yourself wrote that 1700 is the cost of an hour) but the drone flies more slowly, that is, four hours at least for a flight of the same range.
          In any case, it turns out more expensive. Moreover, you still need to find something manageable that can be hung on an UAV for $ 8300, you need to build or buy strike UAVs, which after this operation FIG knows when it will be needed. But the Su-25 is, and is constantly needed.
          For piece operations, it’s easier to buy a dozen drummers from Israel or China.
          But intelligence needs to be built by ourselves, and a lot.
          1. Operator
            Operator 10 July 2016 11: 23
            +3
            What kind of SU-25s are you talking about - are they equipped with SVP-24 Hephaestus? Then why would they need armor if they can throw freely falling bombs from 6000 meters and KVO 20 meters?

            The drone is valuable not for flight speed, but for the possibility of many hours barrage over the battlefield or communications, by its very presence discouraging the drive to go on a cart, a martyr’s car or a truck with ammunition.
            One or two hits by small-caliber guided bombs at the indicated targets and slippers will switch to purely foot movement, and this is a completely different alignment of forces and at the same time the saving of guided ammunition

            I don’t know where Su-25 is needed right now, but for Syria drones it’s the most, and in the amount of about a hundred units, to control the entire territory of the country around the clock from the movement of militants' vehicles and eliminate as a class martyrs.
            1. demiurg
              demiurg 10 July 2016 11: 32
              0
              1. Equipped. Su-25SM3.
              2. Why do you drive a one and a half-ton fool for hours if a drone weighing 300-400 kilograms can also patrol, and call in case of need attack aircraft?
              3. Fly high, because it makes no sense to give even the microscopic chance of MZA martyrs.

              By the way, give me a reference to cheap guided ammunition for UAVs.
              1. Operator
                Operator 10 July 2016 14: 45
                +2
                1. To use SVP-24 "Hephaestus" you need a trained operator and a separate cabin to place a special TV screen on the dashboard.
                If SVP-24 was installed on a single Su-25СМ3, then this is profanity.

                2. Until the attack aircraft arrives on call, the shahidomobiles will already explode at their targets, the carts will fulfill their fire mission, and the ammunition trucks will deliver them where necessary.

                3. You have not answered the question - why armor flying high aircraft?

                4. Cheap laser-guided ammunition - 240-mm "Daredevil" mine (Afghans recommend).
                1. demiurg
                  demiurg 10 July 2016 18: 47
                  0
                  Oh how. The su-25 cabin was modernized by another cm-2. Take a look at the wiki, there is a photo of the cabin.
                  You can make the 29 moment hang, it has an inexpensive flight hour, and the speed is appropriate. 500km front line. Divide into two barrage aircraft.
                  A kilometer for a couple of seconds in afterburner. 500 seconds, less than 10 minutes.
                  Su-25 was designed for other tasks. But he is now. For him there are trained, experienced pilots. UAVs will be operational in a year and a half or two, if you buy them now.
                  And now show the plane, with the Daredevil fastened :)))
            2. 19001900
              19001900 11 July 2016 00: 48
              -1
              about walking I’m not sure sponsors provide their transport well
          2. Monarchist
            Monarchist 10 July 2016 14: 13
            -1
            It’s interesting for you: the cost I don’t know how to fasten the Krasnopole also don’t know, but I’m the most
        2. yehat
          yehat April 27 2017 15: 06
          0
          As far as the hardware cost of a flight hour is concerned, everything is elementary - you take the cost of the aircraft, divide by its resource and get the cost of the “sturgeon”.

          I think this is too rough a calculation. Sometimes overhead completely changes the outcome.
  • Monarchist
    Monarchist 10 July 2016 14: 04
    +1
    Comrade Commander, please hide your math, and on Echo they will see .... how they will tell you twice that the current leadership (I’m not enthusiastic about them, but others ...) is corrupt, you need to listen to Washington, etc.
  • evil partisan
    evil partisan 10 July 2016 08: 13
    +3
    I have a question. It is known that China has combat UAVs. Why our MO can’t turn to the Chinese on the topic of renting them for use in Syria for their own purposes. Or they won’t give?
    1. midivan
      midivan 10 July 2016 10: 24
      +2
      Quote: wicked partisan
      I have a question. It is known that China has combat UAVs. Why our MO can’t turn to the Chinese on the topic of renting them for use in Syria for their own purposes. Or they won’t give?
      but I have a question, but instead of? -VKS in Syria: instead of the Su-25 and Mi-35 - Chinese combat drones, that is, 200-300 kg is obtained against the Su-25 which drags several tons? fl how many do they need instead of one drying? pieces 20t? Does it even make sense to rent? we have there that the loss of 25x went?
      1. demiurg
        demiurg 10 July 2016 11: 49
        0
        With a full load, planes hung with bombs, missiles and hanging tanks are at exhibitions only.
        Normal loading does not exceed tons; planes fly to explored targets, and not to free hunting.
        Therefore, the idea arises that a drone with a load of 500 kg can solve the same problems as a fighter bomber. Only it suddenly costs more than an airplane. Because the plane strikes with conventional bombs, and the drone is a guided weapon, which is very expensive.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 12 July 2016 05: 04
          +1
          The cost of a "product" depends on the size of the batch .. The larger the batch, the cheaper the product .. Manual work is always more expensive .., an automatic line for the production of ammunition is much cheaper .. A light aircraft with 10 "lemons" on the suspension is quite capable of "eating "quietly 20-30 people.
        2. yehat
          yehat April 27 2017 15: 08
          0
          anyway, started with regular patrols
          drones are the cheapest way
          for proven goals, you can break in the old fashioned way. And not the fact that by plane. Maybe next MLRS will suddenly be laughing
          ps although the Germans recently threatened to make an optically invisible composite glider for reconnaissance. That would be a bastard angry
    2. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 11 July 2016 14: 01
      +2
      Quote: Angry Guerrilla
      I have a question. It is known that China has combat UAVs. Why our MO can’t turn to the Chinese on the topic of renting them for use in Syria for their own purposes. Or they won’t give?


      You must have your own ...
      A request for help is an indicator of a country's weakness according to international concepts; the leadership will not do that.
  • 1536
    1536 10 July 2016 08: 14
    +6
    Along the way, nothing has changed in our defense industry. How many facts we know how in Soviet times the I-16 plane, the T-34 tank, and many other samples of equipment, "hacked" by the military reception, by some military representatives from the plow and just enemies and spies, made their way into the troops.
    People die in battle, but that doesn't matter. If only to fill the machine, but to go hunting. And after all, scum, they still mock the memory of the fallen, planting a bullet from Remngton or Peratsi in the forest game, then drinking whiskey and French cognac.
    We have been talking about UAVs for 15 years. And nothing has changed. There are specific perpetrators, I won’t believe that not. They must be sent to Syria. Side gunners to helicopters.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 July 2016 10: 19
      +2
      Quote: 1536
      Along the way, nothing has changed in our defense industry. How many facts we know how in Soviet times the I-16 plane, the T-34 tank, and many other samples of equipment, "hacked" by the military reception, by some military representatives from the plow and just enemies and spies, made their way into the troops.

      And you read - which T-34 was hacked to death by the "military representatives-old-men". And why did Kulik stop accepting tanks in 1941?
      If he had it not did - now would shout about "military representatives, elders who entered into criminal conspiracy with industry and took T-34 self-propelled coffins for the army"Kulik's threats forced Kharkov to start at least some modifications of the T-34. Otherwise, from the first series of T-34s in 1940, about 80% were out of order due to technical malfunctions.
    2. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 11 July 2016 14: 09
      +2
      Well, just do not mix in one pile.
      All developments had childhood illnesses, if Chkalov, who fell into a catastrophe, had not defended the I-16, his development would have been closed.
      Well, Polikarpov could not provide a production culture and allies could not - the I-16 either fell off its wings, then the engines wedged (loss of a pilot plane during an emergency landing), which is why even in Spain 1935-1938, not combat losses of I-16 (failure materiel) accounted for up to 30% of combat losses.
    3. Stas57
      Stas57 11 July 2016 16: 17
      0
      Quote: 1536
      People die in battle, but that doesn't matter. If only to fill the machine, but to go hunting.

      I wonder what kind of machine the military representative could fill in Stalin's times, if only breadcrumbs in the north ...
  • gIloT
    gIloT 10 July 2016 08: 16
    +9
    I think that our lag is not only in this direction. Now they are patching up the holes that were formed in the 90s, when the army in general was hammered. Judging by the president's reports, the implementation of the program for the modernization of troops and bringing the equipment with modern weapons to 70% is proceeding with great creak. "There is no money, but you hold on ...", although this budget item is the most impressive, covering the entire social network. And most likely there is no money to spend on the development of fundamentally new samples. Everything new with us is somehow modernized old. And this problem cannot be solved in one fell swoop, since the problem is much deeper and is connected not only with the military-industrial complex.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • cheburator
    cheburator 10 July 2016 08: 59
    0
    Stop wailing, you have to do the job!
  • Tamronaf
    Tamronaf 10 July 2016 09: 10
    +1
    Judging by the logic of the author, the United States is even more duplicate than Russia. They drive their planes and aircraft carriers for 10000 km in order to bomb a couple of tractors or some kind of goat. And they have spent and will continue to spend hundreds of billions on F35 as an aircraft of direct support to the troops, at least in the version for the marines.
    1. NikolaiN
      NikolaiN 10 July 2016 10: 59
      +2
      For a country that can "draw" the required amount of money, the financial side of the issue is not so relevant. If we compare the external debt of the United States and Russia, then yes, they are in the "dupe". And if we compare aircraft and their costs, then ...
      However, the United States has long been using combat drones.
    2. yehat
      yehat April 27 2017 15: 13
      0
      this is not entirely true. The Americans have already created a large network of bases, within which there is a continuous logistical movement. Therefore, the mobilization of some part of this network does not significantly change the total cost of logistics. Changes are noticeable only during events like Afghanistan or Iraq.
  • Yereke
    Yereke 10 July 2016 09: 37
    +1
    Yes, Beria doesn’t have enough for you, who created the atomic project in 4 years, and this is nonsense compared to it
    1. Chisayna
      Chisayna 10 July 2016 11: 26
      +2
      Together with Beria, Stalin is also needed, and yet the whole repressive apparatus of the NKVD is needed.
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 10 July 2016 14: 25
        +1
        You are right: now this car is in operation: in 2-3 months everything was found and flew!
  • fzr1000
    fzr1000 10 July 2016 10: 22
    +3
    Here is the "Corsair", but it is not domestic in terms of the engine, and there will certainly be something imported.
  • demiurg
    demiurg 10 July 2016 10: 41
    +3
    As absolute nonsense. We take Pomegranate or Caliber (better than Pomegranate, they are still removed from the armament), we make awkward wings of a slightly larger size. We deform the engine, increasing a resource and profitability. Instead of GOS and warhead we put what you need. You can gash a super-drone in a year. hi
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 July 2016 10: 22
      +3
      Congratulations! You just invented the Tu-300. smile
    2. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 11 July 2016 14: 16
      +1
      Quote: demiurg
      As absolute nonsense. We take Pomegranate or Caliber (better than Pomegranate, they are still removed from the armament), we make awkward wings of a slightly larger size. We deform the engine, increasing a resource and profitability. Instead of GOS and warhead we put what you need. You can gash a super-drone in a year.


      There, a programmable autopilot is not remotely controlled. Investments in modernization may exceed the development of a new drone.
      The engine is low-resource - it was designed for one flight, but don’t de-force it - the resource will be funny, the service is expensive.
      The Americans somehow tried to develop engines designed for the Tomahawks, to finalize the resource and use it for civil aviation - something was quiet on the topic.
  • Pencil
    Pencil 10 July 2016 10: 47
    +1
    I see the reason for the lag in the fact that from the very beginning it was not professionals, aircraft builders, who rushed into this area, but those who were once engaged in aircraft modeling, rejoiced that, thanks to Theme, you can earn and learn for the money of others. That is why all of our so-called drones did not differ much from cord models, and to this day they continue to be so, without any prospects. Well, is it just that they will install a nano-accumulator, a nano-camera, a nano-answering machine, a nano-inertial computer, a nano-thermal imager and, if there is free mass, a nano-rocket ... A few years ago the Defense Ministry allocated good money to develop a heavy drone. But something is not heard about the results ... It seems that they are not even able to copy?
  • bad
    bad 10 July 2016 11: 01
    +1
    Here we lagged not only from the USA, Israel or China, but even from countries such as Iran.
    -runda .. nowhere are we lagging behind .. or do you think that creating a bookcase with a pair of hellfires is more difficult than the t-50? just shock drones are not a priority yet so they pull with them .. more than sure that we have them, just not advertise .. you have heard about the "caliber" before they banged? .. laughing
    There is much in the world, friend Horatio, which is not subject to our sages
    fellow laughing
  • King, just king
    King, just king 10 July 2016 11: 03
    +9
    I don’t understand anything ... Minus, accuse of mental retardation, but I don’t understand anything.
    In the USSR, in every village there was an aircraft model circle; in the USSR Armed Forces, they flew apart from all kinds of drones, including strategic planes - converted into radio-controlled targets. TsAGI, jade rods mount aviaKB, radio and other KB - HDE, b, drones?

    Eper ballet, side-view radar (were), command control of avionics (was), ships in space automatically fly - all controls for dropping weapons, etc. - is there - XDE, b, drones?

    Vaughn, a tank-like robot rattles the "Armata" stuffed with a kind of electronics, which seems to be missing - HDE, b, drones.

    I have heard about these UAVs since the first Chechen war - HDE, b, drones?

    Plant, plant, plant, and again plant the lobbyists of Israeli UAVs, their under-constructors, with confiscation. Only HTO will put them ...
    1. demiurg
      demiurg 10 July 2016 11: 15
      +2
      For heaps of jade rods plus, unambiguous :))
  • Lex.
    Lex. 10 July 2016 11: 27
    +2
    For ka-52 it was not fatal in cases of damage to the tail boom
    1. Foxbed
      Foxbed 10 July 2016 11: 56
      +1
      For ka-52 it was not fatal in cases of damage to the tail boom
      Quote: Lex.
      For ka-52 it was not fatal in cases of damage to the tail boom


      I think I wouldn’t get into the tail boom ka -52 ... yes
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • evge-malyshev
    evge-malyshev 10 July 2016 11: 31
    +1
    What are the provocative headlines? You read (headline) - you think, well, come ... But in fact - the author’s fantasies (ravings).
  • Waldemar
    Waldemar 10 July 2016 11: 51
    +3
    Quote: bad
    nowhere are we behind .. or do you think that creating a bookcase with a pair of hellfires is harder than the T-50?

    Do we have these hellfire? What are you going to shoot? By storm? So it is 2 meters in length and requires TPK, which weighs more than the rocket itself. Whirlwind? Everything is the same, only almost 3 meters long. Cornet? So Cornet air-based is not in nature (and not the fact that it can be done in six months).

    Quote: bad
    I am more than sure that we have them, they simply do not advertise .. you have heard about the "caliber" before until they banged ?.

    Availability is perfect. Yes, in addition to availability, experience would be needed, and with this ass, while the total flight time of the MQ-1 and MQ-9 exceeded 2 million flight hours back in 2013.
  • Leonid Har
    Leonid Har 10 July 2016 12: 14
    0
    Buy a pair of Chinese Pterodactyls and shamelessly copy them to sell them back to the whole world.
    1. Mentat
      Mentat 10 July 2016 22: 20
      +1
      Quote: Leonid Har
      Buy a pair of Chinese Pterodactyls and shamelessly copy them to sell them back to the whole world.

      What for did they give up? This is another copy, this time of the American Traitor. If we urgently needed, we would have copied a glider no worse than the Chinese, there is a filling, weapons are much better than Chinese.
      There is simply no incredible urgency. Developments are underway, of course, but this topic is not in the highest priority.
  • Div Divich
    Div Divich 10 July 2016 12: 23
    +1
    Quote: Siberia 9444
    into the series only by the end of the current decade, and we can only make up for the failures if we get something abroad.
    Brad, what a lag. Only by someone's instinctive he was removed to the far box


    And there are small ones (shares of the enterprise belong to the Kalashnikov Concern)
    Website: zala.aero


    Only large orders are not ...
    It is necessary to hint Rogozin, describe the benefits of drones ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Pencil
    Pencil 10 July 2016 13: 23
    0
    Quote: Sofa Divanich
    And there are small ones (shares of the enterprise belong to the Kalashnikov Concern)
    Website: zala.aero


    Only large orders are not ...
    It is necessary to hint Rogozin, describe the benefits of drones ...


    There are no orders, since the toy market is over, everyone is interested in the liquidators. Do not disturb Rogozin, nothing to brag about ...
  • nrex
    nrex 10 July 2016 16: 06
    0
    In vain you ran into our military-industrial complex, we have a lot of UAVs with a lot of superiority and all out loud. For example, Caliber and Onyx.
    Isn't that a UAV? This is nothing more than a BLA KAMIKADZE. Moreover, as their combat tests in Syria showed, there is no equal in flight range, and both of these toys have artificial intelligence like working in a pack and independently searching for a target. Primary intelligence data can be obtained from cheaper products and from satellites.
    The next WAR will be fleeting and brutal due to the total use of nuclear weapons and the carriers of such weapons will be the above-mentioned KAMIKADZE UAVs. ))) The most important thing is to make a decision in accordance with the state general defense line. Our country with its territories cannot hold back without NATO nuclear weapons conventional attack. Therefore, our military-industrial complex simply does not build such machines as unnecessary. We are not going to fight with anyone, but we have something to defend ourselves with.
    1. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 11 July 2016 14: 23
      +1
      Quote: nrex
      In vain you ran into our military-industrial complex, we have a lot of UAVs with a lot of superiority and all out loud. For example, Caliber and Onyx.
      Isn't that a UAV? This is nothing more than a BLA KAMIKADZE. Moreover, as their combat tests in Syria showed, there is no equal in flight range, and both of these toys have artificial intelligence like working in a pack and independently searching for a target. Primary intelligence data can be obtained from cheaper products and from satellites.
      The next WAR will be fleeting and brutal due to the total use of nuclear weapons and the carriers of such weapons will be the above-mentioned KAMIKADZE UAVs. ))) The most important thing is to make a decision in accordance with the state general defense line. Our country with its territories cannot hold back without NATO nuclear weapons conventional attack. Therefore, our military-industrial complex simply does not build such machines as unnecessary. We are not going to fight with anyone, but we have something to defend ourselves with.


      The “kamikaze” caliber has a programmable autopilot, it does not imply control in flight, except for self-destruction. And an engine with a ridiculous resource - why would he need another one for a one-way flight?

      The strike UAV has other tasks - they have already written above - barrage in straddling, reconnaissance, and delivering high-precision strikes against moving targets.
  • Mengad
    Mengad 10 July 2016 17: 21
    0
    Maybe not in the subject but indirectly yet, a Muslim killed in Glasgow on Easter preached peace,
    read ,, The Glasgow Sheriff Court in Scotland charged 32-year-old Tanvir Ahmed with the murder of Assad Shah, the owner of a small store that congratulated Christians on Easter. ,,
    -http: //www.bbc.com/russian/uk/2016/03/160325_uk_scotland_shah_death
  • Lex.
    Lex. 10 July 2016 18: 45
    +1
    Colonels are piloted by helicopter com regiments but what about starlings, captains
  • dojjdik
    dojjdik 10 July 2016 18: 59
    0
    hehe Jews push their stale goods, see with tow does not work cheto
  • Former battalion commander
    Former battalion commander 10 July 2016 20: 15
    +1
    Miracles in the Russian defense industry continue! Buy WEAPONS FROM SAUDI ARABIA! No brains count a cripple. So in this area of ​​Russian weapons in Russia is controlled by the MOST PRESENT KALEKA. Nothing more to say on this issue.
  • Lyubopyatov
    Lyubopyatov 10 July 2016 21: 44
    0
    Soviet engineers moved to Israel, which is the leader in UAVs. Ukrainian Soviet engineers have moved somewhere. And in Russia, a party of saboteurs like the "Industrial Party" of the 30s of the last century continues to operate, which was tried and imprisoned, but not all. We will have to use nuclear weapons at the initial stage of NATO aggression, if Bzdutin does not bleat about international law of the last century.
  • Forever so
    Forever so 10 July 2016 21: 59
    +1
    Sausage again for fish. The whole bunch of fancy drones superfood to the first electronic warfare station. Which the current terrorists do not have. A drone is a weapon against the Papuans. Russia is going to fight with the Papuans ?? or another noah - but in America and even the Chinese have, but in our rush there is no backward one. Most likely, there is a great desire to drop a pie on the military-industrial complex.
    1. Professor
      Professor 11 July 2016 08: 22
      0
      Quote: Forever so
      The whole bunch of fancy drones superfood to the first electronic warfare station.

      And could you explain to us exactly how electronic warfare can fight drones? Or are they all slogans?
  • Shtyn dwarf
    Shtyn dwarf 10 July 2016 22: 04
    0
    Can someone clearly indicate the technical problems of creating a PSU in Russia?
    -BY?
    -Electronics?
    -Optics?
    What is the difficulty then ...?
    1. Cro-Magnon
      Cro-Magnon 10 July 2016 23: 42
      0
      "This country will be destroyed by corruption!" (C)
      1. Shtyn dwarf
        Shtyn dwarf 11 July 2016 12: 27
        0
        What happened to the country after the 90th year that suddenly corruption flourished here? Could it be that American advisers laid this foundation in a country that knew about corruption only from reports from distant countries.
  • Mentat
    Mentat 10 July 2016 22: 08
    -3
    For example, a significant lag in the creation of combat drones, the use of which is sometimes much more effective than manned aircraft and helicopters.

    In what specific cases is the use of drones “much more effective” than manned aircraft?

    Immediately after this maxim, the author writes that drones carry 100 kg unguided bombs. Our VKS use 500 kg of bombs with an aiming system that provides very high accuracy. What, then, is drones much more efficient? Such questions need to be disclosed in detail so that there is no such zilch.

    The article is more like using an informational occasion than sane material.
    1. Cro-Magnon
      Cro-Magnon 10 July 2016 23: 44
      0
      More effective, if only in the fact that inappropriately then bury the colonel pilots! Or do you have the thesis that a lossless war is never fond of hearing !?
  • Mentat
    Mentat 10 July 2016 23: 18
    -1
    Quote: Cro-Magnon
    In the picture, an idiotic arrangement ... throwing screws excludes the use of rockets from underwing pylons ... is it not fate to install pushing screws !?

    This is your idiotic level of knowledge and awareness. The figure is actually a reconnaissance UAV. But you, apparently, are not destined to at least type a phrase in a search engine. Of course, it's better to squeal about idiots on the Internet, demonstrating just that.
  • Mentat
    Mentat 10 July 2016 23: 26
    +1
    Quote: Shtynsky Dwarf
    Can someone clearly indicate the technical problems of creating a PSU in Russia?
    -BY?
    -Electronics?
    -Optics?
    What is the difficulty then ...?

    Nothing at all. There is simply no urgent and urgent need. There is no target order from Moscow Region; there are initiative developments.

    In addition, the use of shock drones is a very expensive task, justified for hitting particularly priority goals. Now our Armed Forces simply do not face such tasks on a massive scale. Urgently launching a series for the sake of isolated cases is impractical. That’s the whole “great secret” of the absence of shock UAVs.
    1. Shtyn dwarf
      Shtyn dwarf 11 July 2016 12: 31
      +2
      But it’s interesting - very often we get a picture from Syria with a PSU. These PSUs target aircraft. And what prevents the PSU from hanging 100 kg of load if they suddenly notice an important goal? After all, they are already circling in the air.
      And another question - can BP replace attack helicopters, such as the Mi-24 in the light of the latest sad event?
  • Mentat
    Mentat 11 July 2016 02: 55
    0
    Quote: Cro-Magnon
    More effective, if only in the fact that inappropriately then bury the colonel pilots! Or do you have the thesis that a lossless war is never fond of hearing !?

    This article is about pure technical efficiency, while the statement is not supported by anything. My ears caress the adequacy of the comments and the reasoned presentation of the information.
  • Dinko
    Dinko 11 July 2016 06: 07
    0
    Who wrote this article? Why on earth should any Mordovian messenger be trusted in this issue? And in what irreplaceable conditions such as drones are better than airplanes, the article is silent. I would like to contact the site administration so that it carefully selects the materials!
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 11 July 2016 12: 54
      -2
      Quote: Dinko
      Why should you believe in this matter some messenger of Mordovia?

      - mdy ...

      Quote: Dinko
      I would like to contact the site administration so that it carefully selects the materials!

      - and also carefully filtered the local horse-Tingent. From inadequate and USEshnikov yes
  • berezin1987
    berezin1987 11 July 2016 08: 24
    +2
    I'll put in my five cents. Russia has all the necessary components to create a UAV of the middle and heavy classes. There is a line of aircraft engines, weapons, electronics. Not enough glider and program code. Developing a glider is not a very big problem, but it will take years to create the code and fix the bugs. A fully manual drone can be created even on the basis of existing aircraft, but the device with AI elements will take many years.
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 11 July 2016 11: 59
      -3
      Quote: berezin1987
      Russia has all the necessary components to create a UAV of the middle and heavy classes. The range of aircraft engines isthere are weapons electronics is. Not enough glider and program code. Glider to develop is not a big problem, But code creation and bug fixing will take years

      - for sure. Everything is. Well that's all-all-all fool
      - and only bugs, bugs interfere ... they are such bugs ...

      Quote: berezin1987
      A fully manual drone can be created even on the basis of existing aircraft ...

      - The Americans tried, as far as I remember ...


      - but this is just an "intellectual target" request

      Quote: berezin1987
      but the device with AI elements will take many years

      - for sure. Moreover, as far as I know, no one has such
      - but there is such a thing, from DARPA (photo below):


      "Bugs", damn it ... you are a computer mouse, for "five cents" laughing
  • Recoil
    Recoil 11 July 2016 15: 21
    -2
    You accuse our leaders of criminal inaction!
    One of the elements of extremism: publicly knowingly false accusation of a person who is filling a public office of the Russian Federation or a public office of a constituent entity of the Russian Federation of committing acts during this period of his duties that are specified in this article and constitute a crime.

    Citizens, this is a compound. Stop the discussion.
    Glory to Putin!
  • Pencil
    Pencil 11 July 2016 18: 39
    0
    Something hurts a little intellect, but with big ambitions ...
  • Mentat
    Mentat 11 July 2016 21: 31
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Forever so
    The whole bunch of fancy drones superfood to the first electronic warfare station.

    And could you explain to us exactly how electronic warfare can fight drones? Or are they all slogans?

    Spoof GPS, jam the control channel, i.e. stop the mission.
    1. Professor
      Professor 12 July 2016 07: 17
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      Spoof GPS, jam the control channel, i.e. stop the mission.

      These are slogans. How exactly are you going to "Spoof" the GPS? Where do you change the inertial? How to jam the frequency hopping channel of communication? How do you drown a directional antenna?
  • Mentat
    Mentat 11 July 2016 21: 53
    0
    Quote: Cro-Magnon
    More effective, if only in the fact that inappropriately then bury the colonel pilots! Or do you have the thesis that a lossless war is never fond of hearing !?

    Those. you offer the aerospace forces to stop flying at all, right? A moratorium on flights, they can also be shot down!
    I continue your logic: the police only need to graduate from the academy and in no case go outside the precinct, there are bandits, they can be injured! Don’t leave the riot police outside the unit, there are protests, they can give a bottle to the head! In no case should FSB officers go outside the building; there, terrorists can shoot!
    Invite all of these people to lock themselves at home and not engage in what they were preparing for and what they chose as their life’s business.

    From comments similar to yours, it simply carries philistinism and is sick. Go to the pilots and tell them in person: don't fly anymore! You studied all your life just to ride on simulators.

    With all the abundance of drones, the United States has not abandoned controlled aircraft and for some reason is creating the 5th generation for billions and billions of dollars. Drones are used not because the United States “saves pilots”, but simply because they have an operational radius that is several times larger, and the cost of departure is much less, i.e. with mass use in certain missions (destroying a point target), drones are economically very profitable.

    However, drones cannot replace controlled aircraft in missions similar to those conducted by the aerospace forces in Syria. But you are illiterate, you are collecting pluses, why do you need to understand this?
    1. laogun
      laogun 12 July 2016 11: 43
      +1
      No one in this debate drew attention to the fact that in the Donbass dill drones no longer fly. They are either intercepted and planted, or simply knocked down. These drones are good against barmaley and other Indians who do not have electronic warfare. That is why our military-industrial complex has focused on confronting them, and not on urgent manufacturing.
  • Mentat
    Mentat 11 July 2016 22: 04
    +2
    I ask everyone involved in the discussion to give arguments, the bare minuses look ridiculous.
  • ver_
    ver_ 12 July 2016 03: 53
    -1
    Quote: Skifotavr
    Quote: Paul1
    and how long does it take for our industry to make such combat drones? what do decades need? Iran-done, China-done, everyone did, except for us, why? all this is strange. It seems that we are deliberately slowed down.

    Exactly. I have repeatedly said that, compared to what the Russian military-industrial complex produces, such drones are very primitive, but nevertheless they have not even been copied from anyone over the years. And they won’t copy, because for those who constantly star in the Russian media, words and deeds are completely opposite to each other. And on the Russian emblems of different ministries Masonic symbolism flaunts - as for example, the Ministry of Defense has a triangular two-headed eagle (not to be confused with a normal two-headed eagle) - from the experience of history it is known that this is an unfortunate omen.

    .. "Jews, Jews, all around there are Jews" ... but how much they are "annoyed" by all these showdowns among their blood brothers - Arabs? .. They benefit from chaos and the mutual destruction of their "blood brothers" ...
  • Mentat
    Mentat 12 July 2016 21: 30
    -2
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Mentat
    Spoof GPS, jam the control channel, i.e. stop the mission.

    These are slogans. How exactly are you going to "Spoof" the GPS? Where do you change the inertial? How to jam the frequency hopping channel of communication? How do you drown a directional antenna?

    How to spoof it is shown in the relevant articles a long time ago. As for silencing, these are not slogans, but current reality. Russia has moved from a theoretical justification of the possibility to practical implementation. The fact that this is not accessible to the Israeli military-industrial complex does not mean that it is not accessible to anyone.

    The inertial is not necessary, because long-range strike and reconnaissance UAVs (of serious value) do not fly on it, the 70s of the last century have long passed. The situation of the disappearance of the control and communication channel is regulated by the UAV flight rules - an unambiguous return to the base due to the high probability of capture of the drone.

    A remarkable high-tech drone reaches the even more high-tech area A2 / AD, turns around and flies back.
    Therefore, in particular, drones are called "weapons against the Papuans."
    1. Professor
      Professor 13 July 2016 08: 54
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      How to spoof it is shown in the relevant articles a long time ago.

      EW troops lose GPS fight
      The Russian strategic electronic warfare system (EW) turned out to be powerless before the American GPS global positioning system.

      Quote: Mentat
      As for silencing, these are not slogans, but current reality. Russia has moved from a theoretical justification of the possibility to practical implementation. The fact that this is not accessible to the Israeli military-industrial complex does not mean that it is not accessible to anyone.

      Again slogans. How are you going to jam the frequency hopping link and antenna pattern? More specifically pliz. Without opt-in to Google.

      Quote: Mentat
      The inertial is not necessary, because long-range strike and reconnaissance UAVs (of serious value) do not fly on it, the 70s of the last century have long passed. The situation of the disappearance of the control and communication channel is regulated by the UAV flight rules - an unambiguous return to the base due to the high probability of capture of the drone.

      Materiel.
      GLOBAL HAWK SYSTEMS ENGINEERING CASE STUDY
      2.2.1.3 Flight and Navigational Control The air vehicle's flight control and navigation functions are managed by two Integrated Mission Management Computers that integrate data from the navigation system. The prime navigation and control system consists of two Inertial Navigation System/ Global Positioning System (INS / GPS) systems.

      Surveillance and Reconnaissance Imaging Systems: Modeling and Performance .
      2.7.1 Predator Ineternal Navigation Sysyem

      Quote: Mentat
      Therefore, in particular, drones are called "weapons against the Papuans."

      By whom? Is the Russian army Papuans?
      Interlocutor: Vladimir Shamanov: “Sharpen the army structure for today's wars”
      In the same Abkhazian direction, Georgian drones regularly flew over the positions of our troops, and in most cases we had to put up with this. These Israeli-made Hermes UAVs circled the paratrooper camp for hours with impunity for hours because military air defense systems “didn’t take them”: ZU-23 anti-aircraft missiles didn’t penetrate, and MANPADS did not fly due to insufficient heat radiation from drones.
  • Div Divich
    Div Divich 13 July 2016 11: 42
    +1
    Quote: Mentat
    Therefore, in particular, drones are called "weapons against the Papuans."


    The new generation robotic army is not only against the poits.
    If you underestimate the enemy in this way, we will lose all battles.

    Drones complement aircraft / helicopters well, but do not replace them (current technologies cannot provide artificial intelligence at the human level).


    Unmanned scouts do not even need an airfield, and they consume little energy, cost a thousand times cheaper than an airplane, people don’t require a salary, they don’t go on sick leave and on vacation, they don’t have days off.
  • Mentat
    Mentat 13 July 2016 15: 03
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Mentat
    How to spoof it is shown in the relevant articles a long time ago.

    http://izvestia.ru/news/536181
    The Russian strategic electronic warfare system (EW) turned out to be powerless before the American GPS global positioning system.

    When quoting, you accidentally did not notice that the article dates from 2012. You generally tend to overlook the inconvenient. It's been 4 years now. Meanwhile, the threat of GPS spoofing and its possibility was recognized as real 15 years ago, about which the US Department of Transportation issued a circular back in 2001 year. The military GPS encryption system is as old as a mammoth’s mammoth, and students will spoof the civilian version in 10 minutes:
    https://blog.kaspersky.ru/vzlamyvaem-gps/2054/

    How are you going to jam the frequency hopping link and antenna pattern? More specifically pliz. Without opt-in to Google.

    “Professor”, this is not written in Google, we are talking about the latest generation of Russian electronic warfare systems.

    Quote: Mentat
    The inertial is not necessary, because long-range strike and reconnaissance UAVs (of serious value) do not fly on it, the 70s of the last century have long passed.

    Materiel.
    http://www.lboro.ac.uk/media/wwwlboroacuk/content/systems-net/downloads/pdfs/GLO


    BAL% 20HAWK% 20SYSTEMS% 20ENGINEERING% 20CASE% 20STUDY.pdf GLOBAL HAWK SYSTEMS ENGINEERING CASE STUDY
    2.2.1.3 The prime navigation and control system consists of two Inertial Navigation System/ Global Positioning System (INS / GPS) systems.

    I congratulate you that this time you were finally able to use Google. This is progress, "professor", this is an overwhelming success (for you).
    But not enough.

    Here's a video of how the UAV controls in a mission, inertial system is not used for these purposes:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unv9C2t7f5c

    1. All actions are subject to mandatory manual control and double confirmation.
    2. All complex operations are carried out only in manual mode.
    If “No Data Link. Connection Lost ”, the emergency procedure of UAV return to the base will be launched.

    The inertial system can be used for driving and for that very return to the base in an emergency.

    More carefully, "professor", your google skills are still weak. To get answers to your simplest questions, you still seem to need to work hard.

    Quote: Mentat
    Therefore, in particular, drones are called "weapons against the Papuans."

    By whom? Is the Russian army Papuans?
    http://www.bratishka.ru/archiv/2009/5/2009_5_1.php Собеседник: Владимир Шаманов: «Заточить армейскую структуру под сегодняшние войны»
    In the same Abkhazian direction, Georgian drones regularly flew over the positions of our troops, and in most cases we had to put up with this. These UAV "Hermes" Israeli production

    Maybe you still remember the 90s or the flights of Soviet drones over Europe in the 70s? Eight years have passed since the Abkhaz conflict, this is a huge time.
    1. Professor
      Professor 13 July 2016 15: 32
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      When quoting, you accidentally did not notice that the article dates from 2012.

      Let's get a fresh link where it would be indicated how successfully drowned the military GPS channel.

      Quote: Mentat
      “Professor”, this is not written in Google, we are talking about the latest generation of Russian electronic warfare systems.

      I thought so. They are, but they are secret and therefore no one knows about them. The fact that they contradict the laws of physics is a trifle on which we will not dwell. laughing Everything's clear with you.

      Quote: Mentat
      Here's a video of how UAV control in a mission takes place; an inertial system is not used for these purposes:

      Quote: Mentat
      The inertial system can be used for driving and for that very return to the base in an emergency.

      Give links to the studio where the procedure for applying INS will be described. Your fantasies are not interesting to me. Then you write that "they do not fly over it" and then suddenly they fly. Or should I show you these procedures?

      Quote: Mentat
      More carefully, "professor", your google skills are still weak. To get answers to your simplest questions, you still seem to need to work hard.

      There are no rain answers from you, so you have to poke your nose into the match.

      Quote: Mentat
      Maybe you still remember the 90s or the flights of Soviet drones over Europe in the 70s? Eight years have passed since the Abkhaz conflict, this is a huge time.

      8 years is a tremendous period. Have people already set up a colony on Mars, defeated death, or maybe the same bosses in the same positions? wassat

      If you have links and materials, then you are welcome, and I will no longer feed you.