Military Review

The Last Battle of the First Rome

91



1565 years ago, 20-21 June 451, the last major battle with the participation of the troops of the Western Roman Empire. The empire itself still had 25 to live for years, it ceased to exist in 476. But even in 451, it was already clear that "eternal Rome" stands at the bottom line. By the time he lost more than half of his possessions - Africa, Britain, a significant part of Iberia and Aquitaine. And in Italy itself, waves of conquerors have already rolled, which had nothing to stop.

Nevertheless, when a horde of Huns, coming from the Asian steppes, led by Attila in 451, invaded Gaul, one of the last Roman provinces outside the Apennine peninsula, the then commander-in-chief and de facto ruler of Rome Flavius ​​Aetius decided to resist. He understood that his own strength was not enough for this, so he turned for help to neighbors and former opponents - the Franks, Alans, Burgundians and Visigoths (they are Visigoths), with whom the Romans had repeatedly fought.

He managed to convince them that the Huns would make everything worse, and that it is impossible to defeat their huge army separately. Most of the Western European tribal unions allocated detachments to the army of Aetius, and the leader of the Visigoths Theodoric decided to personally take part in the battle. The Visigothic contingent was the largest among the allies, according to some sources, he even surpassed the Roman army. On the side of Attila, too, not only steppe nomads fought. His horde included many representatives of the previously conquered Germanic tribes and peoples - Ostrogoths, Gepids, Rugs, turing, Skyriors, Heruls, and also - a part of the Alans who lived in the territory of the Hun "Empire."

20 June the armies came together in a battle on the Catalan fields. Historians have not managed to precisely localize this place until now. Supposedly, it is located somewhere in the east of present-day France, near the city of Chalon-sur-Saone, however, no trace of the grand battle there has yet been found. The number of opposing armies is also impossible to establish. Although, the Iberian chronicler Idatsy wrote that there were as many 300 thousands of Huns, most modern historians believe that this number is overestimated every five, or even ten. Apparently, there were about as many warriors of the anti-Hun coalition as their opponents. In any case, none of the ancient chroniclers indicates that one of the armies was significantly superior to the other.

The battle began with the Huns' cavalry attack on enemy military formations. Ostrogoths supported them on the left flank, and other allies on the right. Aetius located in the center of the Alans, Franks and Burgundians, he himself with the Romans stood on the left, and Theodoric was located on the right with the Visigoths.

Soon the Huns managed to push through the enemy center, but the Visigoths withstood the onslaught, although their leader was killed, and on the opposite edge of the field Roman legionnaires turned their opponents to flight. When the Visigoths, having repulsed the attack, also counterattacked, Attila realized the danger of his position. His center advanced far ahead, but both flank were broken. The Romans were about to connect with the Visigoths behind the Hun assault force, cut it off from the base camp and attack from the rear. The result was a classic "Cannes".

In order to prevent such a development of events, the Hun leader ordered to immediately stop the pursuit of Alans, Franks and Burgundians, turn to 180 degrees and return to the camp. The Romans and the Visigoths did not have time to close the encirclement ring. Attila with most of his fighters broke into the camp, surrounded by a fence of carts. By this time it began to darken and the battle stopped. The next morning, the Vistigogts tried to seize the camp, but the Huns repulsed the attack.

Attila announced that he would stand to the last and ordered to kill anyone who tried to escape. The allies, who suffered great losses in yesterday’s battle, did not dare to once again go on the assault on the “wagenburg”, having decided to starve it. However, soon the son and heir of the deceased Theodoric Thorismond received a message that distemper was brewing in his domain and there were already those who wanted to put someone else on the liberated throne.

Learning of this, Torismond decided that power was more important than final victory. Without even warning Aetius, he immediately withdrew his troops to deal with the conspirators. This dramatically changed the balance of power. The Romans could not continue the siege alone, and the Huns had a chance to make a sortie and defeat the remaining enemies. Realizing the threat that had arisen, Aetius also ordered the withdrawal. This gave Attila a reason to say that he had not lost the battle, although his attack on Gaul was stopped. On the Katalaun fields, the Huns suffered such damage that they had to return to recuperate and recruit recruits to the Hungarian steppes.

The following year, the Hun leader began a new aggressive campaign in Western Europe, but this is another история. And on the screen saver - the infantry of the late Roman Empire in battle, drawing by Igor Zis. It is not clear how Steven Seagal was there?



The Romans reflect the cavalry attack of the Huns.



Visigoths 21 June 451 find the body of their leader Theodoric on the field of yesterday's battle.



Visigoths are trying to attack the camp of the Huns surrounded by carts.



Roman infantrymen and cavalrymen of the V century. The second on the right is the centurion.



The Visigoths are the temporary allies of the Romans in the Battle of Katalaun.



Riders of the army of Attila. The Hun aristocracy had a peculiar custom of deformation of the skulls, for which the children from infancy tightly bandaged their heads, forcing her to grow upwards. This was done in order that a noble person in any clothes and even without it could be immediately distinguished from the commoner. Such skulls were repeatedly found in rich Hunnic graves.



Hun infantry. In the right figure, the Huns collect trophies on the battlefield on a short night from 20 to 21 in June 451 of the year.

The Last Battle of the First Rome


Scheme of the climax of the Battle of Katalaun. The Romans and their allies are marked in red, the Huns and their allies in blue.
Author:
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  1. dionis
    dionis 3 July 2016 06: 58
    -2
    I liked the article, but small, not everything is disclosed. Why is it called FIRST Rome? How to understand this?
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 3 July 2016 07: 24
      +26
      Quote: dionis
      Why is it called FIRST Rome? How to understand this?

      So you understand, Losers, that the center of power passed to the Byzantine Empire, whose inhabitants called themselves Romans, in the Russian transcription "Romans". In this capacity, it existed until 1204. SECOND Rome ceased to exist on April 13, 2004, when the crusaders captured Constantinople, establishing the Nicene Empire on the lands of Byzantium. The Vatican apologized to Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople for the plundering of Constantinople, the capital of the Byzantine Empire, by the crusaders 800 years ago. / Oh, what a polite and cultured Catholics! A tear breaks through! /
      1. Camel
        Camel 3 July 2016 08: 52
        +28
        April 13, 2004, when the crusaders captured Constantinople, having founded the Nicene Empire on the lands of Byzantium.

        The date needs to be corrected, otherwise I was already sweating when I saw the news about the Crusaders. hi
        1. V.ic
          V.ic 3 July 2016 10: 36
          +1
          Quote: Camel
          It’s necessary to correct the date,

          My deepest apologies! "Ashipka", or rather my mistake! hi
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 3 July 2016 13: 07
            +4
            Quote: V.ic
            My deepest apologies! "Ashipka", or rather my mistake!

            "Horses, people mixed in a heap and" ... volleys of thousands of opponents merged into a drawn-out ...
            On April 3, 2004, the Vatican apologized to Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople for committing a plunder of the capital of the Byzantine Empire of Constantinople 800 years ago. It was meant exactly this.
      2. Cartalon
        Cartalon 3 July 2016 09: 41
        +1
        The Nicene Empire was founded by fugitive Greeks, the Crusaders founded the Latin Empire
      3. Lyubopyatov
        Lyubopyatov 3 July 2016 16: 11
        +4
        Well, the Third Rome is the Russian Empire. Only the Romans are not Russian transcription, but Greek.
    2. Aleksandr72
      Aleksandr72 3 July 2016 07: 34
      +15
      Rome is the first Rome, Constantinople (Byzantium) is the second Rome, Moscow is the third Rome, and there will be no fourth. Classic s. laughing hi And this article comes across to me more than once. For the first time I learned from her that Hun aristocrats had bandaged their heads to change the shape of the skull, I always thought that such a custom existed only among the Indians of the pre-Columbian era (living in the territory of modern Peru and Mexico), as well as among some tribes of Central Africa. But no.
      The first artificially deformed skulls were found in Peru at the very beginning of the century before last, then in 1820 - in Austria. Further archaeological research has shown that elongated skulls are found almost everywhere. They are found in the burials of ancient Egyptians in northern Africa, in the graves of the Aztecs, Incas and other Indian tribes of Mesoamerica and South America, in the necropolises of Central Asia and Khorezm, in burials in the territories that today belong to Malta, Iran, Syria, Cyprus, Crete, France, Norway, many other countries. Relatively recently, they were found in burials located in Siberia.

      The last of these finds in Russia is a burial ground 3 km from the Arkaim reserve in the Kizil district of the Chelyabinsk region.
      1. Red_Hamer
        Red_Hamer 3 July 2016 16: 04
        +9
        About the "Sarmatian ritual", the custom of artificial deformation of the skull among the Huns, I did not know. Although it was widespread throughout the world. On the territory of the USSR, artificially deformed skulls are known from ancient burials of the Crimea, the Caucasus, Central Asia and the Volga region. The most widespread was circular deformity, in which the head was tied with a bandage around the circumference. To enhance the action of the bandage on the forehead and on the back of the head, plaques are sometimes applied. This custom was observed from the XXII to the VII - VI centuries BC. After a break comes, and again elongated skulls begin to be found from the XNUMXrd century BC. Echoes of this custom remained in the folk costume, in elongated headdresses, in particular in the kokoshnik. Until recently, the custom existed in Turkmenistan. And by the way, why no one pays attention to those images from Egypt where there are pharaohs there without hats? But the custom has survived to our time, for some peoples of the Malay Archipelago and Central Africa, see the photo!
        1. Roman 11
          Roman 11 4 July 2016 20: 32
          +2
          Quote: Red_Hamer
          About "Sarmatian ritual"

          Oh, what an interesting skull he has ..... - the back of his head lengthens upwards. Ufologists should be interested.
    3. Semurg
      Semurg 3 July 2016 07: 37
      +2
      Quote: dionis
      Why is it called FIRST Rome? How to understand this?

      Because Moscow is the third Rome and there will be no fourth. And Rome, of course, is one for all times and the rest of the "Romes" are the children of Lieutenant Schmidt
    4. ver_
      ver_ 3 July 2016 09: 48
      +1
      ..the history of Rome was "written" in the 15th century ..
      The first invasion of the Huns is the campaign of the brothers Yuri George Dolgoruky and his brother John Kalita = Yaroslav ..
      The second campaign of the Huns is the campaign of Yaroslav. Yaroslav's elder brother, Georgy, died of a wound received on the Vozha River during a "showdown" with neighbors ...
      Gaius Julius Caesar - a cast from George Yuri Dolgoruky - so there was a falsification of history by the West .. Ancient Rome - which was not ..
      1. Grenader
        Grenader 3 July 2016 11: 02
        +13
        Quote: ver_
        The first invasion of the Huns is the campaign of the brothers Yuri George Dolgoruky and his brother John Kalita = Yaroslav ..
        The second campaign of the Huns is the campaign of Yaroslav. Yaroslav's elder brother, Georgy, died of a wound received on the Vozha River during a "showdown" with neighbors ...

        Well, of course. And Cleopatra is Prophetic Oleg. Stop reading Fomenko because he is a sharpie from science. At 28.28 it is especially fun in the second video.
        1. Riv
          Riv 4 July 2016 10: 18
          +7
          Tochnik !!! The snake has bitten the proprietary Oleg and Cleopadla too. One and the same person, destined!
        2. max2215
          max2215 5 July 2016 06: 59
          +4
          Stop reading Fomenko for he is a sharpie from science.
          An interesting idea, but what, the official version is not cheaters? So, her ruler’s history, each ruler rewrote, so that Fomenko’s rights are wrong; nevertheless, we know the history from the German version, and only Jews teach us the native language .....
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 3 July 2016 16: 49
        +5
        Who most disappoint Fomenko and K -
        these are archaeologists. All the time, infections, find something
        new, and - as luck would have it - even more ancient.
        The history of the Egyptian kingdom has moved "in depth" in the light of the artifacts of recent decades for another 150 years. And the history of ancient India is already 300 years old.
        Archeology is now widely used laboratory methods of forensics.
        Ultrasound scans in depth, and electron microscopes confidently read even completely washed away papyrus and parchments - by scratching the pen.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. siberalt
      siberalt 3 July 2016 19: 39
      +1
      All these Romes are mythology, as well as Greek. What is there fifteen hundred years ago? Where are the links to the source? You look at the pictures all in chain mail with bows and swords. If we take into account that pig iron learned to melt only in the 12th century, then where did these Romans one and a half thousand years ago dig up so much meteorite iron? laughing And how much do you make war with copper or bronze weapons? And where was it to be taken in such quantities? Give the maps of the Roman ancient copper ore copies. Something of them in Italy, practically nonexistent, and it seems there wasn’t, except for the craft production of dishes. Then, who taught the Romans to melt copper and tin and make bronze? There are more questions than answers.
      1. AK64
        AK64 3 July 2016 20: 55
        +12
        If we take into account that pig iron learned to melt only in the 12th century, then where did these Romans one and a half thousand years ago dig up so much meteorite iron? laughing How many copper or bronze weapons?


        I don’t understand, are you serious or is this a banter?
      2. Weyland
        Weyland 3 July 2016 22: 46
        +10
        Quote: siberalt
        If we take into account that pig iron learned to melt only in the 12th century, then where did these Romans one and a half thousand years ago dig up so much meteorite iron? And how much do you make war with copper or bronze weapons? And where was it to be taken in such quantities? Give maps of ancient roman copper copies


        Recently it has been proved that cast iron was also able to melt in ancient Rome - it was simply lost in the Dark Ages for a long time. But no one made weapons and armor from cast iron - and they learned to make screaming iron in Italy in the ages 11 BC. (a consequence of the migration of the Etruscans and Venets from Asia Minor, where iron was produced already 20-3 centuries BC)!
        By the way, the Romans exported copper from Cyprus - it's just some kind of bottomless barrel, because copper has been mined there for 45 centuries - and still has not been scooped up!
        1. siberalt
          siberalt 4 July 2016 23: 24
          +4
          Yeah. Therefore, the "dark ages". It's like half of the sheets were ripped out of the middle of human history. laughing As for iron products, it’s better for you to archaeologists, and not to historians - fabulists. For the smelting of cast iron, at least fur horns and coal were needed, and for steel flux. Maybe the Mongols taught us how to cast iron in martens? Oh well. hi
          1. AK64
            AK64 5 July 2016 17: 42
            +10
            as for iron products, it’s better for you to archaeologists, and not to historians - fabulists.

            Kolchin B.A. Ferrous metallurgy and metalworking in Ancient Russia (Pre-Mongol period) --- read, educate. This is archeology. With pictures

            For the smelting of cast iron, at least fur horns and coal were needed,

            Coal is completely unnecessary - charcoal is better. Charcoal received steel in the Urals in the 20th century (!!!)
            and for steel flux.

            There were no steels. Steel were a great trick. (Hence the legends about damask steel.)
            Steel was obtained in crucibles. And people had fluxes: the simplest flux was limestone. Or chalk.
            Maybe the Mongols taught us how to cast iron in martens? Oh well.

            Cast iron is quite obtained in a fairly large blast furnace. In principle, he was considered a marriage - "pig iron". But you can burn in a forge into iron - carbon burns out
          2. Weyland
            Weyland 5 July 2016 19: 15
            +10
            Quote: siberalt
            For the smelting of cast iron, at least fur horns and coal were needed, and for steel flux.


            Furs - yes, they are needed (1st image of furs - the tomb of Rehmir, Prime Minister Thutmose 3rd (approximately ser. 15 century BC) Coal is not necessary, although it began to be used as fuel 20–25 thousand years ago (in Interglacial) And fluxes as such have learned to use even from sulphide smelting of copper, centuries 40 BC, in Tal-i-Iblis (by the way - I professional metallurgy, and I know the history of metallurgy perfectly!)
        2. Chiropractor
          Chiropractor 5 July 2016 16: 33
          +1
          cast iron is cast, it is not forged, it is fragile
          screaming iron - at the exit there are small pieces of iron, from them you can forge a knife, well, an hatchet ...

          and this breakthrough of helmets for every legion is already stamped ...
          1. AK64
            AK64 5 July 2016 17: 50
            +5
            screaming iron - at the exit there are small pieces of iron, from them you can forge a knife, well, an hatchet ...

            Yah? Do not want to 5 and 8 kg?
            But in general, your "small pieces" were welded using the blacksmith's method. Moreover, when welding, the seams were enriched with carbon - here you are already "Domass steel".

            A lot of work - and therefore the price of swords was high
          2. Weyland
            Weyland 5 July 2016 19: 18
            +2
            Quote: Kostoprav
            breakthrough helmets for every legion - already stamping ...


            Figures - casting (bronze)! People mastered iron weapons 10 centuries earlier than iron armor - they were poured from bronze for a very long time, because it is much easier than stamping!
            1. AK64
              AK64 6 July 2016 00: 11
              +1
              Figures - casting (bronze)! People mastered iron weapons 10 centuries earlier than iron armor - they were poured from bronze for a very long time, because it is much easier than stamping!


              Did the jugs pour too? Of bronze?

              Pounding. Riveting again - riveted helmets are quite common (in this one in archeology)
              1. Weyland
                Weyland 6 July 2016 19: 44
                +4
                Quote: AK64
                Did the jugs pour too? Of bronze?


                Lily. By the same technology, according to which they are pouring now - by the lost wax model.
              2. The comment was deleted.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. 4thParasinok
            4thParasinok 12 July 2016 02: 33
            +4
            Quote: Kostoprav
            cast iron is cast, it is not forged, it is fragile

            even when I was studying at the Criminal Procedure Code (for the pepsigolov- Educational and Industrial Combine in which high school students were taught working specialties in the 80s), I studied that there is low-carbon cast iron, which even is called malleable cast iron ... All your other statements are they stem from an elementary ignorance of the topic.
            1. AK1972
              AK1972 13 October 2018 11: 16
              0
              For the gifted: a short course in metal science: Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon with a carbon content of up to 2,14%, over 2,14% - cast iron.
      3. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 4 July 2016 12: 28
        +3
        Quote: siberalt
        If we take into account that pig iron learned to melt only in the 12 century, then where did these Romans fifteen hundred years ago dig up so much meteorite iron?

        What a stream of delirium, I just do not want to criticize line by line.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. siberalt
          siberalt 4 July 2016 23: 38
          -3
          Iron ore cannot be melted at the stake. See table melting points of metals, wise guy, damn it! laughing
          1. Sura
            Sura 5 July 2016 10: 11
            +6
            Iron ore cannot be melted at the stake. See table melting points of metals, wise guy, damn it! laughing

            A steep high precipice (usually a river) was chosen, a vertical pit was dug from above, the bottom went to the base of the cliff, then ore and charcoal lay in layers in the pit, an additional pipe was added from clay above the pit. From the bottom, firewood was lit and natural great traction was obtained due to the difference in height, the temperature was enough to melt the iron.
          2. AK64
            AK64 5 July 2016 17: 58
            +3
            Iron ore cannot be melted at the stake. See table melting points of metals, wise guy, damn it! laughing


            Why melt it? Scorching iron - not melted. Direct recovery.
            This is not a melt at all.

            You should have climbed into the u-tube at least - there it’s pretty visible how iron pounded in antiquity was made from ore.
      4. Kotyara Fat
        Kotyara Fat 4 July 2016 16: 40
        0
        From R.Kh. and not after, Vaganych, damn it.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 3 July 2016 08: 13
    +7
    The following year, the leader of the Huns began a new conquest in Western Europe, but this is another story.
    This battle of nations stopped Attila. The conqueror never returned to Gaul. However, the Huns nevertheless tried to capture Italy and invaded its northern regions. But without success - the Huns left Italy. In 453, Attila died, and his fragile empire died after him. The following year, Emperor Valentinian killed Aetius, fearing his influence. A few years later, Valentinian fell victim to intrigue. The years of the Western Roman Empire were numbered.
    1. DanSabaka
      DanSabaka 3 July 2016 10: 27
      +1
      the battle of the peoples could have been another ..... the Ostrogoths would not have gone with Attila if Theodorich had accepted the peace they had proposed, and hadn’t killed meanly at the feast of the Ostrogothic prince Bus (Bosch)
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 3 July 2016 13: 14
        +3
        Quote: DanSabaka
        if Theodorich accepted the world they had proposed and not killed meanly at the feast of the Ostrogothic Prince Bus (Bosch)

        "And the maidens of the Gothic time of Busovo sang", like in "Word ...", only Bus was a Slav, not an Ostrogoth, and it was like 370-375 Slavic leaders who were crucified. This, in my opinion, was written by V. Chivilikhin in his essay novel "Memory".
        1. Rivares
          Rivares 3 July 2016 21: 14
          -1
          After this, King Attila leads his whole army further to Russia, where he had only heard of King Tidrek. And when Tidrek the king returned to Smolensk, the king Attila with his army came there and the king Tidrek tells the king Attila all the news that had happened in his campaign since they parted. In this city was Jarl Iron, brother of King Valdemar.
          The saga of Tidrek Bernese. One of the fragments.
        2. DanSabaka
          DanSabaka 4 July 2016 08: 56
          0
          Visigoths and Ostrogoths, according to many scholars, are the Aryan-Slavic tribes of the Polyans and Drevlyans, respectively .... and the hostility of these tribes was long ....
        3. Riv
          Riv 4 July 2016 10: 24
          +6
          As many as 350 ??? Interestingly, they were gathered there from all over Eurasia? :)
          The same with the Huns of Atilla. 300 thousand. If they put Wagenburg to defend (and they were put), then ... let's say half a meter per person ... 150 kilometers perimeter is obtained. Even if taking into account losses - no less than a hundred.
          A sickly Wagenburg. :)
          1. King, just king
            King, just king 4 July 2016 12: 33
            +5
            And eat-drink, write-poop. And horses (nomads), and livestock for food? And feed the living creatures with what?
            The chief of staff from the anguish of green and unconscious - went, stabbed, nafig.
  3. wasjasibirjac
    wasjasibirjac 3 July 2016 08: 35
    +3
    in the drawings are some strange Roman warriors. where is the manipulative system? where are the semi-cylindrical shields, smooths and spear-saws? in the drawings, the warriors and their weapons are more like Russians than Romans.
    1. Deniska999
      Deniska999 3 July 2016 09: 01
      +8
      V century actually. By that time, the Roman army was already completely different.
      1. Filxnumx
        Filxnumx 24 June 2017 21: 12
        0
        or V century was different, don’t you?
    2. Rivares
      Rivares 3 July 2016 21: 19
      +1
      Quote: wasjasibirjac
      in the drawings, the warriors and their weapons are more like Russians than Romans.

      No wonder, in the German saga Atilla fights with the Russians:
      Ch. 294. The king of Attila rode with his army; and gathered throughout his kingdom dukes and counts, and knights, and all kinds of army. And when it was made, he went to the Russian land and was going to avenge himself. And as soon as he entered the kingdom of Wilkinland and Russia (Ruzilandz), devastated and burned everything where he went, and inflicted great damage on them. Konung Waldemar held that Attila the king had gathered, gathered people for himself throughout his state and sent against him; they met in the land of the Wilkins, and there was a lot more troops near King Valdemar. Both intend to enter the battle, and the king Attila placed the Hun army and his banner against the flag of the king Valdemar, and the king Tidrek puts his banner and his detachment against the banner of Tidrek, the son of the king Valdemar.
      The Tidrek Bernese Saga
      1. Riv
        Riv 4 July 2016 10: 25
        +1
        Dukes and counts, say? Atilla? Oh well...
        1. Mikhail Matyugin
          Mikhail Matyugin 4 July 2016 12: 32
          +1
          Quote: Riv
          Dukes and counts, say? Atilla?

          What surprises you so much? These terms are exactly in order with late antiquity in use.
          1. Riv
            Riv 4 July 2016 13: 28
            0
            Dukes of the Huns ???
    3. Mikhail Matyugin
      Mikhail Matyugin 4 July 2016 12: 35
      +2
      Quote: wasjasibirjac
      in the drawings are some strange Roman warriors. where is the manipulative system? where are the semi-cylindrical shields, smooths and spear-saws?

      The manipulative system was canceled approximately 500 years before Catalown.

      The sort of "correct" scutums were abandoned about 300 years before Catalaun.

      Varieties of gladiuses were used, but switched to longer swords such as spath.

      And pilums or their varieties were used.
    4. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 12 July 2016 02: 45
      +1
      Quote: wasjasibirjac
      in the drawings are some strange Roman warriors. where is the manipulative system? where are the semi-cylindrical shields, smooths and spear-saws? in the drawings, the warriors and their weapons are more like Russians than Romans.

      1. And who painted the pictures, really Atilla himself? therefore similar.
      2. By that time the Roman army had switched to Germanic shields and spears. already 200 years as the backbone of the troops were "barbarians". They were also generals, even became emperors. Weapons began to be used, which is simpler and more familiar, the same with the structure. This is described by many contemporaries.
  4. andrewkor
    andrewkor 3 July 2016 08: 41
    +2
    He lived for some time in Turkmenistan and was amazed at the very widespread deformation of skulls in boys, as if squeezed from the sides, flat, and in simple villages, probably descendants of noble families !!
  5. surrozh
    surrozh 3 July 2016 08: 48
    +5
    Indeed, the article is not enough, the material is most interesting.
  6. Internal combustion engine
    Internal combustion engine 3 July 2016 09: 20
    +13
    Any design, including a public one, accumulates errors over time, decays and falls apart. The main reason for the collapse of public state structures is the decay of the ruling elite. If the state has established a system for keeping the elite in good condition, in a state of constant "drive", then the country also feels normal and this structure lives for a long time. An example of this is the Roman Empire mentioned in the article. Anyone familiar with its history knows that its ruling elite has been healthy for a very long time. And the empire perished because of the disrupted mechanism for renewing the elite. In the end, overweight and bronzed and even genetically flawed people ended up in power. There is no need to talk about the collapse of the USSR, the rotting party nomenklatura opened the gates of the Kremlin to the enemies. The fact that any constructions are not eternal is understandable, but the important question is how long the structure can live. How long can our modern state last, the construction of which lasts 25 years. During this time, the peak of its heyday has clearly passed, and this construction of the state is heading towards a natural end. The ruling elite, having eliminated the internal threat for themselves, became obese and ossified. There was no effective mechanism for its renewal from the very beginning and will no longer be. Class and estate division, nepotism, nepotism, clannishness, corruption are doing their dirty deed day and night. The elite, deprived of fresh personnel on the scale of the entire country and strata of the population, is degenerating by leaps and bounds. Therefore, an early collapse of such a system is inevitable.
    1. Nick1953
      Nick1953 3 July 2016 18: 13
      +5
      It's like in football: there are no boys from yard teams, there is no mechanism for promoting talent. The result is the national team on wooden legs.
    2. Riv
      Riv 4 July 2016 17: 56
      +2
      Che for heresy? What is another mechanism for updating the elite, or what? The Roman Empire led to the end of the controversy between the ancient structure of the limitrophic provinces and the transition from central to feudal relations.
      However, this is probably too complicated? It's easier to blame everything on emperors.
  7. Cartalon
    Cartalon 3 July 2016 09: 42
    0
    Even my whole life I thought that it was the Goths who deformed the skull
  8. sivuch
    sivuch 3 July 2016 10: 07
    +1
    Why is Steven Seagal in an embroidered shirt?
    And by the way, is spatha not too greasy for a simple light infantryman?
    1. Iskander Sh
      Iskander Sh 3 July 2016 11: 36
      +7
      Quote: sivuch
      Why is Steven Seagal in an embroidered shirt?


      In the background is another embroidered shirt, which the Roman Empire proves was founded by the ancient Ukrainians! laughing
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 3 July 2016 13: 22
        +1
        As the Scarecrow the Wise said on a similar occasion, everyone knows this fellow
  9. hunn
    hunn 3 July 2016 12: 48
    +2
    It is incorrect to say that this was an invasion of the Huns. The Huns formed the backbone of Attilla's cavalry. In addition to them, the army included many German and Slavic tribes. Under the banner of Atilla came to beat the hegemon)).
  10. Poplar505
    Poplar505 3 July 2016 12: 55
    +2
    I do not believe!!! Because it’s not true.
    Understand, dear author, when the term Germans appeared (who are the Rugs, etc.) and what year the written source about them as such actually dates from.
    Then you will understand, transported to the time of the original source, what it is like to present to the "world community" your interpretation of the events of 600 years ago that you discovered. Let me explain: you, as a chronicler, open to the world a completely new page of history, which happened, for example, in 1416 between the "ancient Ukrainians and the sworn Muscovites on the territory of the Crimean Peninsula"
    You would still remember about circumcision (why limit yourself to skulls, hear a ringing, but don’t know where it is).
    Look for the place of battle, at the same time and dig Kulikovo field.
    An article for the 7th grade of a Soviet school.
    Pretty already ...
    Yes, I completely forgot! The significance of a historian in the Russian Federation (and in the USSR as well) is determined not by his objectivity, honesty, love for his historical roots, but by the number of publications in foreign Russophobic publications sponsored by "it is not clear" who.
  11. ver_
    ver_ 3 July 2016 15: 51
    +1
    Quote: Grenader
    Quote: ver_
    The first invasion of the Huns is the campaign of the brothers Yuri George Dolgoruky and his brother John Kalita = Yaroslav ..
    The second campaign of the Huns is the campaign of Yaroslav. Yaroslav's elder brother, Georgy, died of a wound received on the Vozha River during a "showdown" with neighbors ...

    Well, of course. And Cleopatra is Prophetic Oleg. Stop reading Fomenko because he is a sharpie from science. At 28.28 it is especially fun in the second video.

    .. this is for you a merciful sovereign (ek as I am a haberdashery, otherwise the moderators of crime or or some other heresy will be discovered and banned) it's time to grow up and learn at least a little to learn to think critically and to distinguish realities from the violent fantasy of "historians" who plagiarize fairy tales from other "luminaries" of historical sciences for the sake of their dissertations and scholars, degrees .. So for the myths about Great Mongolia they received both academic degrees and state awards ..
    1. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 12 July 2016 03: 30
      +1
      Quote: ver_
      So for myths about Great Mongolia they received both degrees and state awards ..

      Fomenko received state awards for mathematical works, and academicians from mathematics, not history: "Anatoly Timofeevich Fomenko: Soviet and Russian mathematician. ... Full member of the Russian Academy of Sciences (1994), the public organization" Russian Academy of Natural Sciences "... The most widely known brought the "New Chronology" related to the literary genre of folk history ...
      In 1958-1959, the newspaper Pionerskaya Pravda published his fantastic short story, The Mystery of the Milky Way.
      He graduated from the Faculty of Mechanics and Mathematics of Moscow State University named after M.V. Lomonosov in 1967.
      December 1, 1981 became a professor of the Department of Higher Geometry and Topology, and in 1992 - the head of the Department of Differential Geometry and its applications.

      Specialists have serious complaints about the content of some of the basic mathematical work of A. T. Fomenko. In the review of the American mathematician F. Almgren, who is considered devastating, he points out a number of errors and the discrepancy between the declared achievements and the actual results obtained. Also, Russian mathematician Mikhail Gromov stated that the presentations of Fomenko's results in introductions have nothing to do with the uninteresting, abstract content of his mathematical theorems.
      "
      "All-Russian public organization" Russian Academy of Natural Sciences "...
      The public organization "Russian Academy of Natural Sciences" has nothing to do with the Russian Academy of Sciences and is criticized by a number of academicians and employees of the RAS for the fact that some of its members are persons far from science, without proper education and recognized scientific works ... "

      Among the well-known public figures in support of the “New Chronology” were Eduard Limonov, Alexander Zinoviev, Garry Kasparov (Kasparov subsequently revised his position and ceased to support it]).

      In 2004, for a series of books on "New Chronology" co-authors A. Fomenko and G. Nosovsky were awarded the "Paragraph" anti-prize in the "Honorary ignorance" nomination - for "especially cynical crimes against Russian literature" ... "
      1. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 12 July 2016 05: 07
        +1
        What he wrote before the new chronology was true, then either the banter began or the man went crazy. Most likely they forced him to publish all kinds of nonsense on his behalf in order to discredit his previous one.
  12. Mengad
    Mengad 3 July 2016 18: 10
    +4
    Quote: andrewkor
    He lived for some time in Turkmenistan and was amazed at the very widespread deformation of skulls in boys, as if squeezed from the sides, flat, and in simple villages, probably descendants of noble families !!

    They are not the ancestors of the ancient Peruvians lol There, too, you can see a bunch of noble families wink
  13. Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 3 July 2016 18: 20
    +3
    Here is the blue crap ...
    Catalaunian fields not found.
    Three ... no, they’ve been looking for two thousand years ... - they cannot find.
    There was the Roman Empire of the ONE version ... but, damn it, nothing was left of it.
    And there was a Byzantine empire, reliably known and existing, certified in writing. But they don’t talk about her, but what to say? There was and was. What garbage.
    It’s much more interesting to do mythological research.
    ...
    Was this year in Trier. Such a city in Germany. In the farthest west. Close to Luxembourg and Holland.
    There Karl Marx was born, if anyone is interested.
    So, this city has a stunning natural museum. Dating back to the "times of the Roman Empire", including a perfectly organized amphitheater - the hippodrome.
    The Black Gate, is heavily positioned as a Roman structure.
    And I walked there, walked, looked, looked ... well, kill me with a goose feather, I can’t get rid of the feeling that this is a building of the Middle Ages.
    It was the culture that, long before the "Great Ancient Rome", mastered bronze, iron, and other achievements.
    Which, in fact, was Ancient Rome. And about which Mr. Shpakovsky painted so well on our website.
    And in our history it was the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation.
    Where are there lousy goats from the Apennine Peninsula, on the territory of which not a single blast furnace was found. But a single smelter. Only gladiators ludus.
    .
    Yes, and the amphitheater. Walked around Trier ... entrances to the arena - DIAMETRALLY opposite. With a slope for overclocking.
    Specially designed specifically for equestrian areas.
    Circus ... in its purest form.
    Under the amphitheater are stunning underground structures, as if taken from a Gladiator movie.
    ...
    In short, I am preparing material for the site.
    For - I do not believe in the Roman Empire.
    In the Byzantine - I believe.
    And I believe in the Holy Roman Germanic nation.
    And everything else is the tricks of psychopaths.
    ...
    Just like the Catalunya fields.
    Which demonstrate the tactics of the Hunnish army - WELL THERE IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE HORSE MILITARY.
    As if on the contrary, everything has changed.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 3 July 2016 20: 46
      +3
      Catalunya fields near the city of Troyes is a city in northern France on the River Seine, the historical capital of Champagne ...
  14. Mengad
    Mengad 3 July 2016 18: 56
    -2
    Quote: Grenader
    Quote: ver_
    The first invasion of the Huns is the campaign of the brothers Yuri George Dolgoruky and his brother John Kalita = Yaroslav ..
    The second campaign of the Huns is the campaign of Yaroslav. Yaroslav's elder brother, Georgy, died of a wound received on the Vozha River during a "showdown" with neighbors ...

    Well, of course. And Cleopatra is Prophetic Oleg. Stop reading Fomenko because he is a sharpie from science. At 28.28 it is especially fun in the second video.

    I already tried to write these questions to the gentlemen in YouTube, but in response you just hear, “stupid people,” it slips on these videos too. And the fact that Yulin hides at least as much as the incompetent in historical matters.
    Example: But when reminding you of this event on TV, you usually hear about a “preemptive strike”, “Stalin is no less than Hitler to blame for the war”, “why did we get involved in this war that we do not need”, “Stalin was an ally of Hitler” and other vile nonsense.

    Therefore, I consider it necessary to briefly recall the facts once again, for the stream of Artistic Truth, that is, vile stupidities, does not stop.

    On June 22, 1941, Nazi Germany attacked us without declaring war. She attacked deliberately, after a long and thorough preparation. Attacked by superior forces.

    That is, it was an impudent, uncovered and unmotivated aggression. Hitler made no demands or claims. He did not try to urgently scrape off the troops for a "preemptive strike" - he simply attacked. That is, he arranged an act of obvious aggression. 'this is from his notes (http://sha-julin.livejournal.com)
    Pay attention to ,, June 22, 1941 on us without declaring war Nazi Germany attacked, and here is the answer to his statement: On the night of June 22, 1941 Schulenburg received from Berlin telegram with the text of the note on declaring war on the Soviet Union. At half past five in the morning, two hours after the outbreak of hostilities, he was received at the People’s Commissariat for Foreign Affairs and handed it to Vyacheslav Molotov (according to V. Molotov himself, Schulenburg appeared earlier, at about three-thirty, but no later than 3 a.m. [5 ]).
    1. Grenader
      Grenader 3 July 2016 21: 54
      +4
      I will not argue about the beginning of the Second World War, but this is not what this video is about. Yulin points out obvious forgeries in the "new chronology". The Fomenkoids, of course, cannot comprehend this, because Fomenko is not a look at history, but a sect that does not perceive facts but blindly follows its teachings.
    2. Приговор
      Приговор 4 July 2016 21: 52
      -3
      I have already said that these two gentlemen are outright clowns. And I'm ready to repeat it again. Anyone who refers to these two fools as scientific "authorities" simply puts himself, according to the level of development, on the same level with them. And, alas, this is not a compliment. At times, listening to these two, the impression is that they do not understand at all what they are talking about. Someone, finally forbid idiots to post their programs on YouTube! fool
  15. Mengad
    Mengad 3 July 2016 19: 11
    +4
    The Capitoline Wolf (lat. Lupa Capitolina) is a bronze sculpture depicting (approximately life-size) a she-wolf feeding milk of two babies - Romulus and Remus, the legendary founders of the city.
    The dating of the sculpture kept at the Capitol Museums is controversial. The statue was considered Etruscan for a long time and dated according to stylistic features. V century BC e.
    In 2006, Anna Maria Carruba, a metallurgy specialist who restored the Capitoline Wolf, published her findings: in her opinion, the sculpture of the she-wolf (not babies) could not be done before the VIII-X centuries. The fact is that in ancient times they could not cast large statues in their entirety: they were made in parts, and then welded. The she-wolf was made immediately and entirely.
    In 2007-2008, scientists at the University of Salerno conducted a series of analyzes of the material of the statue. In 2008, a preliminary statement was made about dating the statue to the 2012th century. In XNUMX, an official statement was made. According to him, the most probable date of the creation of the statue is between 1021 and 1153 years. [
    You think they attributed 1500 years, and how many such inconsistencies? And even arrogant fakes in history?
    1. ver_
      ver_ 3 July 2016 19: 41
      +1
      ... the she-wolf was cast in the 13-15th century ... -the brothers founders of Rome -Rem and Romulus-respectively-George and John .., by the way: this kind of she-wolf does not correspond to those that were found in Italy, but corresponds to the Caspian wolves ..
  16. Mengad
    Mengad 3 July 2016 19: 19
    +5
    And this is also information for admirers of orthodox history: Columbus discovered America - we remember this fact well from history textbooks. Together with America, new and hitherto unprecedented plants and animals were discovered. Including the well-known tobacco and coca leaves, from which cocaine is made, they were exported from New Earth for the first time by Christopher Columbus. Egyptian archaeologists have discovered cocaine, tobacco and hashish in mummies that are at least 4000 years old, but this discovery was under the heading "secret" for some time due to pressure from some historians. But now it’s not about that, but about the fact that this find has renewed the discussion about who actually discovered America. After all, a cocaine tree grows only in Bolivia, Peru and Colombia. It turns out that in ancient Egypt there was a connection with America long before Christopher Columbus discovered it. Or maybe archaeologists, in a state of euphoria from the find, decided to throw a party and connected the bandaged people to the holiday? Sarcasm, of course. German scientists made a second independent examination and again found the above substances. All available mummies were tested for drugs, a third of which gave a positive result. And inside Ramses II, the remains of tobacco leaves were discovered.
    1. ver_
      ver_ 3 July 2016 20: 17
      +1
      Basically, the opponents of all this are nationals - they cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that, due to the small number of their clans, they did not command the World from their yurts, and did not shake the steppes with the hooves of their many Toumens under invincible batyrs ... - this is a national question ..
      Well, they really want to be great ..
    2. Filxnumx
      Filxnumx 24 June 2017 21: 29
      0
      and the version that the so-called ancient Egyptian mummies at least the same age as Columbus does not suit you in any way? Although how can one think differently, after all, the Egyptian Corinthians in the XNUMXth century drove everyone: three thousand years before R.H. and not a month later
  17. Mengad
    Mengad 3 July 2016 22: 07
    +2
    Quote: Grenader
    I will not argue about the beginning of the Second World War, but this is not what this video is about. Yulin points out obvious forgeries in the "new chronology". The Fomenkoids, of course, cannot comprehend this, because Fomenko is not a look at history, but a sect that does not perceive facts but blindly follows its teachings.

    Respected? it’s not the trouble, the trouble is that they completely deny any other point of view based on any arguments! If you disagree with them, then you are an unreasonable person, or ,, dumb youngster ,, This can be seen everywhere under their videos on YouTube .Yes, and in these videos they just sit and ulcerate. But they themselves do not give any facts with the same success! This is despite the fact that the same Nosovsky and Fomenko say that their theory and not a fact compared to these gentlemen boors on the roller .F and N provide food for thought, and these affirm through rudeness.Any point of view has the right to life, until, until proven otherwise.
    1. AK64
      AK64 3 July 2016 23: 45
      +1
      Gentlemen, your learned argument is meaningless.

      Fomenko invented nothing himself, Fomenko even this stolen. He stole from Nikolai Morozov (the very Shlisselburger), who wrote either 6 or 8 volumes on the topic. Morozov still has the same argument - but Fomenko (a swindler) managed to turn on Nikolai Morozov and didn’t refer!

      At the same time, it is reliably known (first-hand) that the origin of this very "doctrine" from Morozov is well known to Fomenka - he learned all this from a lecture from one of his colleagues, who talked about Morozov.

      In general, not just a crook, but also a thief
    2. Grenader
      Grenader 5 July 2016 00: 28
      0
      Quote: Mengad
      Respected? it’s not the trouble, the trouble is that they completely deny any other point of view based on any arguments! If you disagree with them, then you are an unreasonable person, or ,, dumb youngster ,, This can be seen everywhere under their videos on YouTube .Yes, and in these videos they just sit and ulcerate. But they themselves do not give any facts with the same success! This is despite the fact that the same Nosovsky and Fomenko say that their theory and not a fact compared to these gentlemen boors on the roller .F and N give food for thought and these assert through rudeness. Any point of view has the right to life, until, until proven otherwise.

      Once again, you confirmed to others that the "Fomenkovism" is a sect. Yes Zhukov and Yulin are harsh, but the Fomenkoid cannot answer the facts that they set forth. You haven't even watched the video alone. Yulin simply rolled out your new chronology and pointed out the discrepancy in Fomenko's theory. For some reason, more than one Fomenkoid does not say that Yulin is wrong in certain moments and is unable to indicate exactly where he is wrong. Zhukov quoted Fomenko's work and pointed out the incorrect interpretation of this author, at least by the example of the Prophetic Oleg - Cleopatra. You will not answer anything to this specific example either. Any point of view has the right to life, until the opposite is proven - In science, statements are based only on facts and they must be super-iron, so that you can believe in the theory that your supreme deity has piled up. I am 100% sure that you will not refute a single thesis from the video, but again start writing about youngsters and boors. Continue to believe in your idol - smiles to you grandfather Makar.
      1. Mengad
        Mengad 5 July 2016 11: 15
        +3
        Should I remind you how Lomonosov defended the history of Russia and Russia? when he was an opponent to Miller, Schletser and Bayer? and what followed after the death of Lomonosov?
        Oh yes, the Radzivilov Chronicle. There are many questions to her too, please tell me why there is no examination of the Radzivilov Chronicle? And there are many questions to her.
        1. Grenader
          Grenader 5 July 2016 12: 41
          +2
          Quote: Mengad
          Should I remind you how Lomonosov defended the history of Russia and Russia?

          In a previous post, I was 100% right as expected. Not a single counterargument, just prayers and incantations. Once again convinced me that you are a sectarian. May the great fomenko and the new chronology help you.
  18. Mengad
    Mengad 4 July 2016 00: 23
    +1
    Quote: AK64
    Gentlemen, your learned argument is meaningless.

    Fomenko invented nothing himself, Fomenko even this stolen. He stole from Nikolai Morozov (the very Shlisselburger), who wrote either 6 or 8 volumes on the topic. Morozov still has the same argument - but Fomenko (a swindler) managed to turn on Nikolai Morozov and didn’t refer!

    At the same time, it is reliably known (first-hand) that the origin of this very "doctrine" from Morozov is well known to Fomenka - he learned all this from a lecture from one of his colleagues, who talked about Morozov.

    In general, not just a crook, but also a thief

    Do not lie!
    In 1974, Postnikov taught a 50-hour course on Morozov's theory at the Mechanics and Mathematics Department of Moscow State University [19]. The course was taught at the initiative of mathematician topologist Anatoly Timofeevich Fomenko, who had already heard Postnikov's lecture on Morozov's theory seven years before. and "persistently sought to know the details" [22]. As a result, a “Morozovskiy” seminar was formed around Postnikov - a circle mainly from youth from the Mechmath of Moscow State University, the most active members of which were A. S. Mishchenko and Fomenko [
    1. AK64
      AK64 4 July 2016 09: 25
      -3
      Do not lie!


      What kind of tram boar has gotten in here?
      Get out, jerk and boor!
  19. Logos
    Logos 4 July 2016 03: 23
    -1
    / Oh, what Catholics are polite and cultured! Straight tear breaks! /

    Just such) do not forget that the First Crusade 1096 was convened precisely to save the Byzantines from the Turks. When the Turks conquered Asia Minor and approached the walls of Constantinople, the Greeks prayed for help from Western Christians, promising a church union in return for salvation. The Pope convened a crusade, the crusaders crossed to Asia Minor and defeated the Turks at the Battle of Dorile, delaying the destruction of Byzantium by 250 years. Well, in return, the Byzantines stupidly threw their saviors with the question of union and with the help of the crusaders in the further movement of Muslims into the lands
    1. ver_
      ver_ 4 July 2016 05: 03
      -1
      ... the crusades - campaigns for the Holy Sepulcher - the struggle for power in the Empire, after how "illegitimate" they deprived the Emperor of power (they crucified a sick man on the cross by decision of relatives for "godly" deeds). And no Pope yet existed, like the Vatican and Rome ..
  20. Moore
    Moore 4 July 2016 06: 43
    +1
    And on the headband - the infantry of the late Roman Empire in battle, a drawing by Igor Dzysya. It is not clear how Steven Seagal ended up there.

    Yes, and in embroidery ... Which conclusively proves that the Romans directly descended from ancient ukrov.
    Here she is! laughing
  21. Riv
    Riv 4 July 2016 07: 53
    -1
    Everything is like we have with the Battle of the Ice: no one knows where it was, no one knows how many people participated, and they argue about the date. A legend - she is a legend, a lot of different nonsense is heaped up around her, and if someone says: "It was like this" - congratulate him lying.
  22. Mengad
    Mengad 4 July 2016 09: 35
    0
    Quote: AK64
    Do not lie!


    What kind of tram boar has gotten in here?
    Get out, jerk and boor!

    You boor when you lie insolent and denigrate a person. By the essence of my accusation, do you have anything to say? No? Then he went from here!
    PS For those especially gifted as YOU: If I watched his films, I would see that he repeatedly refers to the works of A.N. Morozov.
    1. AK64
      AK64 4 July 2016 10: 34
      +3
      PS For those especially gifted as YOU: If I watched his films, I would see that he repeatedly refers to the works of A.N. Morozov.


      But this is another lie.

      We should start with the fact that Fomenko und Ko himself did not invent anything at all: Morozov wrote either 6 or 8 volumes of this very "new chronology", which Fomenko began to republish under his own name.
      All Fomenka's "arguments" are drawn from Morozov.

      At the same time, Fomenko did not refer to Morozov - and he could not refer simply because he did not bring anything new in comparison with Morozov. That is, in general.

      But here suddenly the "links" were shown. Yeah ...
      Well, it won't require links from books. Let's deal with this "link" from the Wiki.
      What is the matter here from where it is, and most importantly WHEN and AFTER WHAT this link appeared?

      And everything is simple: there is such a "universal scoundrel" Dmitry Galkovsky --- he ruined a lot of people. So Galkovsky naturally immediately understood where the ears of Fomenkovism were growing (from Morozov). Well, since he himself is Moscow State University, he also made inquiries. He was told about these lectures by Postnikov - and Postnikov himself told him (moreover, Postnikov himself was surprised "that this shameless Fomenko does not refer to Morozov?")

      Well, Galkovsky is a simple man - he took all this and ... widely published. And there was nothing left for the fomen and his entourage as soon as they edited the Wiki (at least it's easy there) bashfully referring to Postnikov’s lecture.

      But only AFTER and AS A RESULT of Galkovsky's publications.

      Well, a few words about Morozov: Morozov sat for 25 years (!!!) in Shlisselburg. It was not well educated, but sitting in Shlisselburg, you understand that it’s important not to go crazy here ... So he found himself an activity for the mind: he rushed to re-imagine this story. That is, Morozov is excusable.

      PS: boor recorded in the emergency
  23. ver_
    ver_ 4 July 2016 15: 58
    +1
    Quote: Weyland
    Quote: siberalt
    If we take into account that pig iron learned to melt only in the 12th century, then where did these Romans one and a half thousand years ago dig up so much meteorite iron? And how much do you make war with copper or bronze weapons? And where was it to be taken in such quantities? Give maps of ancient roman copper copies


    Recently it has been proved that cast iron was also able to melt in ancient Rome - it was simply lost in the Dark Ages for a long time. But no one made weapons and armor from cast iron - and they learned to make screaming iron in Italy in the ages 11 BC. (a consequence of the migration of the Etruscans and Venets from Asia Minor, where iron was produced already 20-3 centuries BC)!
    By the way, the Romans exported copper from Cyprus - it's just some kind of bottomless barrel, because copper has been mined there for 45 centuries - and still has not been scooped up!

    Yeah - the Americans also lost the technology of building rocket engines on which they flew to the moon .. Don’t tell p .... - she’s already funny ..
  24. Mengad
    Mengad 4 July 2016 23: 39
    0
    Quote: ver_
    Quote: Weyland
    Quote: siberalt
    If we take into account that pig iron learned to melt only in the 12th century, then where did these Romans one and a half thousand years ago dig up so much meteorite iron? And how much do you make war with copper or bronze weapons? And where was it to be taken in such quantities? Give maps of ancient roman copper copies


    Recently it has been proved that cast iron was also able to melt in ancient Rome - it was simply lost in the Dark Ages for a long time. But no one made weapons and armor from cast iron - and they learned to make screaming iron in Italy in the ages 11 BC. (a consequence of the migration of the Etruscans and Venets from Asia Minor, where iron was produced already 20-3 centuries BC)!
    By the way, the Romans exported copper from Cyprus - it's just some kind of bottomless barrel, because copper has been mined there for 45 centuries - and still has not been scooped up!

    Yeah - the Americans also lost the technology of building rocket engines on which they flew to the moon .. Don’t tell p .... - she’s already funny ..

    NASA posted pictures of the flight to the moon ... laughing maybe I don’t understand what?
  25. Mengad
    Mengad 5 July 2016 10: 55
    +1
    Quote: Grenader
    Quote: Mengad
    Respected? it’s not the trouble, the trouble is that they completely deny any other point of view based on any arguments! If you disagree with them, then you are an unreasonable person, or ,, dumb youngster ,, This can be seen everywhere under their videos on YouTube .Yes, and in these videos they just sit and ulcerate. But they themselves do not give any facts with the same success! This is despite the fact that the same Nosovsky and Fomenko say that their theory and not a fact compared to these gentlemen boors on the roller .F and N give food for thought and these assert through rudeness. Any point of view has the right to life, until, until proven otherwise.

    Once again, you confirmed to others that the "Fomenkovism" is a sect. Yes Zhukov and Yulin are harsh, but the Fomenkoid cannot answer the facts that they set forth. You haven't even watched the video alone. Yulin simply rolled out your new chronology and pointed out the discrepancy in Fomenko's theory. For some reason, more than one Fomenkoid does not say that Yulin is wrong in certain moments and is unable to indicate exactly where he is wrong. Zhukov quoted Fomenko's work and pointed out the incorrect interpretation of this author, at least by the example of the Prophetic Oleg - Cleopatra. You will not answer anything to this specific example either. Any point of view has the right to life, until the opposite is proven - In science, statements are based only on facts and they must be super-iron, so that you can believe in the theory that your supreme deity has piled up. I am 100% sure that you will not refute a single thesis from the video, but again start writing about youngsters and boors. Continue to believe in your idol - smiles to you grandfather Makar.

    There was such a rather interesting person, a certain Ivan Gavrilovich Blinov (November 5 [18], 1872, the village of Kudashikha, Bolshepesoshninskaya volost, Balakhninsky district, Nizhny Novgorod province, Russian Empire - † June 8, 1944, ibid, Gorodetsky district, Gorky region, USSR) - outstanding Russian calligrapher and miniaturist, book writer. How did this husband glorify himself? Wiki: During his creative period, I. G. Blinov rewrote and designed about 200 medieval manuscripts of various genres, a number of which have not yet been identified and described. Some books were created in 2 or more lists. Among the works rewritten by Blinov: "The Life of Vasily the New" (1893), "The Legend of the Mamayev Massacre" (1894), "The Tale of Peter and Fevronia of Murom" (1890s, 1900, 1901), "The Legend of Prince Mikhail of Chernigov and his boyar Theodora "(1895)," Izbornik Svyatoslav "1073 (1896)," The Story of the Assassination of Tsarevich Dimitri "(1896)," The Tale of Igor's Regiment "(late 1890s, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1929, 1944), "The Life of Pavel Obnorsky" (1903), "The Jewish War" (1909), "Akathist to St. Seraphim of Sarov" (1917), "The Wisdom of Menander the Wise" (1918), "The Life of Anastasia the Patterner" (1918) , "The Tale of Ammonius Mnich about the Holy Fathers, Beaten in Sinai and Raifa" (co-authored with his son Ivan, 1918), "History of the City of Gorodets" (1937), numerous canons, synodic books, collections, individual services, canons and akathists for selected holidays and saints and many others.
    Pancakes flawlessly reproduced the style of any period of the era of the XI - XVII centuries.and doing this both by accurately copying the corresponding manuscript, and through a creative approach, due to the deepest knowledge of the book-written samples of the indicated time.
    So put your facts in your slippers laughing
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  27. Mengad
    Mengad 5 July 2016 13: 19
    0
    Quote: Grenader
    Quote: Mengad
    Should I remind you how Lomonosov defended the history of Russia and Russia?

    In a previous post, I was 100% right as expected. Not a single counterargument, just prayers and incantations. Once again convinced me that you are a sectarian. May the great fomenko and the new chronology help you.

    Come on don't you worry so much laughing you still have salt on your wound laughing
    I’m sorry to consider that this is a RESTORATION laughing this is not fake it laughing
    PS these are your AUTHORIZED facts, you still need pictures so that not everything that you see is true, or will you be rude instead of arguments? laughing
  28. renics
    renics 25 September 2016 08: 25
    0
    And that it was impossible to burn these wagons with arrows with torches or to light grass in the steppe, oh how it burns?
  29. Molot1979
    Molot1979 27 June 2017 09: 41
    0
    A small correction. The ancestors of the Huns came from Asia (according to the official version). But It was long before Attila. At the time described, the Huns occupied part of the Black Sea steppes (acacirs), and the main headquarters and the bulk of the population were located on the Hungarian plain. Hungary was generally the point where all nomads of the early Middle Ages were grouped. First the Huns, then the Avars, and then the Magyars themselves granted. The name Attila itself has more Gothic roots than Asian ones. The influence of the Slavs, who, without a doubt, were part of the Hunnic empire, was apparently quite strong. It is enough to point out that the main drunken drink of the Huns was not koumiss at all, but a drink, which in the Greco-Roman program sounded like "medas". All of us are well-known intoxicated honey. And the Huns denoted water with the word "var" - close to many Indo-European languages. Not everything was so simple with them.