Military Review

T-14 Armata. Waiting for the start of serial deliveries to the RF Armed Forces

151
More than a year has passed since the parade in honor of the 70th anniversary of Victory in the Great Patriotic War. It was then - on May 9, 2015, when passing through Red Square for the first time that the latest Russian Tanks T-14 Armata, the appearance of which aroused a truly great interest, and not only in Russia. Immediately after the first official appearance of the latest tanks, a discussion began about how much the Russian Ministry of Defense was ready to purchase for tank units, and how much such purchases would cost the treasury of the main defense department.


T-14 Armata. Waiting for the start of serial deliveries to the RF Armed Forces


The intensity of the issue was also raised due to the fact that initially more than the impressive price of the Armata T-14 tanker - 500 million rubles was voiced. And after the appearance of such figures in the press and after the statements, including the official representatives of the manufacturer ("UVZ"), the number of skeptics who have declared that with all the stated qualities and characteristics of the new Russian tank, these qualities and characteristics are set off by astronomical prices.

The discussion of the half-billion price of the T-14 was very active. And the more active there was, the more often conspiracy statements were made that the Defense Ministry could restrict itself to the small Armat party, focusing more on the purchase of T-90 or upgraded T-72 (up to T-72B3).

Six months ago, 25 January 2016, official representatives of the UralVagonZavod published materials that talked about the real price of the Armata T-14 tank. Then it turned out that this price is about 250 million rubles. That is, already two times lower than the conspiracy values ​​of the earlier information period. At the then exchange rate of 250 million rubles - about 3,5 million dollars, at the current rate - about $ 3,85 million.

The announced price makes the T-14 "Armata" the definitive leader in the combination of "price-declared characteristics" among all modern tanks in the world. For comparison, the Russian T-14 is about 2 times cheaper than the German Leopard-2, 2,2-2,3 times cheaper than the American Abrams M1A2SEP and almost three times cheaper than the French “golden» AMX-56 Leclerc. Let's compare T-14 “Armata” at the price with the total Israeli pride - tank Merkava Mk4 (about 4,2-4,5 million dollars together with Trophy active protection complex). However, by and large, all these foreign tanks can hardly be attributed to fully modern (tanks of the new generation). The same Merkava Mk4 comes into service with the Israeli army for about 12 years.


Merkava Mk4


But it is one thing to compare the price characteristics of the Russian T-14 “Armata” with foreign “analogues” (if the term “analog” in this case is generally allowed to be used), and it is quite another thing to evaluate the real purchasing power of the Russian Ministry of Defense, taking into account the known economic difficulties with which country faced in recent years.

Recent statements by individual representatives of the information community and even the country's main defense department about the fact that, they say, at this stage it is quite possible to get along with a couple of hundreds of modernized T-72, and only then think about buying T-14, caused some anxiety. On the one hand, the tank has already been demonstrated, including its capabilities for firing and hitting targets, on the other hand, the price is still quite high by internal standards, preventing the Armata’s active purchase of the T-14 for the Armed Forces.

The latest information from the representatives of UralVagonZavod is that at the moment there is a search for a compromise connected with the procurement of a certain number of new tanks by the RF Ministry of Defense. This kind of compromise translates into a decision to acquire the original party of the “experienced” Armat. This party, according to some data, is several dozen units, tests of individual armored vehicles are already underway. From 2017 of the year it is planned to begin mass purchases and on the basis of the compromise voiced - the more actively the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation conducts the purchases of T-14, the cheaper the contract can cost in the end.

In total, up to 2025, the Ministry of Defense plans to spend more than 0,6 trillion rubles on the purchase of new tanks. This will allow you to purchase about 2,3 thousands of T-14, including accounting for further maintenance. It turns out that the plans of the main defense department, taking into account the proposal from UralVagonZavod when executed, will allow the fleet of armored vehicles of the Russian Federation to be updated by about a quarter with the T-14 Armata tanks. Serious application, considering the mentioned order also for upgraded T-72 (up to T-72B3).

In principle, “UralVagonZavod” for the implementation of the project remains to fulfill its obligations, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation - its own. However, for some time now, the project has revealed new pitfalls, which cannot be concealed by definition. 17 October last year, Alfa-Bank filed a bankruptcy claim against the Volgograd metallurgical plant "Red October". It would seem, where does the "Armat"? So after all, this plant is engaged in the production of the very unique armor for the entire line using the Armata platform.

Only since the beginning of 2016, over three dozen lawsuits have been filed against the Volgograd "Red October" for a total amount of 11 billion rubles. Of these 11 billions, Cyprus offshore company Boonvision Ltd. makes claims for 3 billion rubles. The general director of the Volgograd enterprise, Dmitry Gerasimenko, according to some data, is now hiding from Russian justice in Switzerland. In the material RBC at one time it was reported that he considers the fraud amounting to more than 65,5 million euros to him to be fabricated. The criminal case led to the arrest of the assets of the Volgograd Metallurgical Plant, while Mr. Gerasimenko claims that he “will soon pay off the debts” that have accumulated in recent times.

So far, as they say at the UVZ, the supply of special steel for armor T-14 "Armata" go on schedule. At the same time, the presence of obvious financial problems for the “Red October” simply by definition cannot but cause an increase in risks. After all, if the bankruptcy procedure is brought to the end with the reluctance of the owner, working through an offshore structure, to repay debts, then the whole system of special supplies for UVZ may be in doubt. Do not forget that in the coming 8-9 years, “UralVagonZavod” will have to release more than 2 thousands of newest armored vehicles, and any system malfunction can lead to a shift in deadlines and to an increase in the cost of the contract lot. And any appreciation in the current financial conditions - this is an additional blow to the defense. Does Russia still need such strikes? - a rhetorical question ...
Author:
Photos used:
http://мультимедиа.минобороны.рф, http://dokwar.ru
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  1. Slon1978
    Slon1978 29 June 2016 05: 56
    -2
    The T-14 Armata is definitely a breakthrough in tank building, although IMHO is not without flaws. Confusingly, firstly, the anti-fragmentation external armor of the tower, not anti-bullet, but anti-fragmentation. Under this armored casing of the tower is located expensive electronics - sights, sensors, cameras, wiring, the insides of radars and other systems, which in fact gives the Armata its main technological advantage. At the same time, the outer protective casing of the tower, in my opinion, is frankly weak - when "processing" a 12,7-14,5 mm tank, this casing will hang in rags, all the electronics will be beaten, the tank will not be destroyed, but it is guaranteed to be removed from the battle and subject to expensive cosmetic repairs, very expensive ... And the shelling of a tank from a large-caliber machine gun can be carried out from relatively safe distances ... For the same reason, dynamic protection is not installed on the tower, which is quite logical - it is simply not possible to use it. The armor of the tower casing should definitely be not just bulletproof, but preferably withstand 14,5 mm from the front and side projections. Accordingly, this will lead to a heavier tower, recalculation of the power of its drive mechanisms, shoulder straps, and possibly the suspension of the tank.
    Secondly, here it is possible that more knowledgeable comrades will correct me, I do not see how the T-14 is protected from ATGM with an infrared homing head, attacking from above. No laser irradiation (to trigger the "Clouds") occurs when the Javelin is hovered over. Further, the rocket attacks from above, and the active defense elements of the Armata are directed to the frontal and lateral projections, but not upward.
    Conceptually, the T-14 Armata, in my opinion, is too advanced - no matter how strange it sounds. It is quite difficult for me to imagine a practical combat situation when all of its potential will be really used, first of all, it concerns the capabilities of its radars, the declared possibility of firing ATGMs at low-speed air targets, and the like. This is a high-tech, smart and expensive machine, and meanwhile, tanks are often used (and I am sure they will always be used) as strike hardware for assault operations - firefighting against enemy positions, often (and forcedly) at relatively short distances of 300-500m and closer, with an unpredictable and rapidly changing combat situation, when the enemy appears suddenly and close and, as a rule, immediately fires at the tank - as the main target of the advancing side. The "consumption" of tanks in such battles has always been and will be quite high, this cannot be avoided - the tank is the main striking force, but at the same time the main goal for the enemy and unnecessarily "protect" tanks in such a situation, keeping them on the back line will obviously damage to the lives of the infantry and the fulfillment of the combat mission in a timely manner. This requires a relatively simple, inexpensive, and highly secure machine. The use of the T-14 in such a battle is akin to hammering nails with a microscope. From this I conclude that the T-14 will never be our truly BASIC battle tank, but will be something like a "commander's" tank operating in the T-90 and T-72 groups. Including because of its price, which, of course, will certainly decrease during serial production, but it is unlikely even to come close to the price of the T-90 for objective reasons.
    I sincerely like Armata, I see a clearly positive development of our domestic design thought on her example, as well as the continuation of our good tradition of "trendsetter" for the world of tank building and could write a lot of positive things about her, like many here, but this would not be too interesting. Therefore, I hope my criticism will be perceived as constructive. I would be glad to be mistaken in my assessments on these points and read adequate opinions.
    1. Dimon19661
      Dimon19661 29 June 2016 07: 16
      +46
      How can you criticize a tank without having data not according to the scheme, not according to the composition of the reservation?
      1. Kostyar
        Kostyar 29 June 2016 08: 16
        +31
        The general director of the Volgograd enterprise Dmitry Gerasimenko, according to some reports, is now hiding from Russian justice in Switzerland.

        Well, how much can you ?!
        When they begin to shoot these traitors, it’s not getting into any gates ...?!
        1. Stalker.1977
          Stalker.1977 29 June 2016 09: 21
          +25
          Yes, in general, this Alfabank is one of the most scum banks, no matter how many friends and friends it didn’t contact, it’s not a word, these racketeers nafig would have been closed a long time ago.
        2. aba
          aba 30 June 2016 02: 47
          +5
          When these traitors will be shot

          I’m more interested in another when the enterprises included in the defense industry will get rid of offshore companies ?!
      2. Alex_Rarog
        Alex_Rarog 29 June 2016 09: 05
        +6
        again this fucking alpha bank!
      3. qwert
        qwert 29 June 2016 12: 12
        -1
        Quote: Dimon19661
        How can you criticize a tank without having data not according to the scheme, not according to the composition of the reservation?
        Only according to the stated data. We have weight, dimensions, volume, engine power, gun caliber. Using these data, it is easy to calculate that a unit of volume is booked, a smaller amount of armor is spent than on the T-90. Those. If you don’t violate the laws of physics, it turns out that the armor thickness on Armata is less than on T-90. The gun, too, means in terms of firepower, too, does not exceed. There are also no mobility advantages over the T-90 or T-80. Given the length of the supporting surface, we can even assume that in the pivot speed it will be inferior. What is left? Ah, yes .. electronic filling .... Well, you can even stick it in the T-72, there was no need to create a whole tank for these purposes. Dala ... A question for connoisseurs. Why fence a garden with an uninhabited tower, if you increase the internal volume of the tank, moreover, you make a tower higher than on the T-72? I understand that an uninhabited tower is good. But it is precisely in that concept as it was planned in the USSR not with an increase in the dimensions of the tank, but with their decrease. Avoiding the domestic tank school, the best in the world, is clearly not justified in this case. In addition, our railway limits the mass of the tank to 60 tons, in Almaty, now there is practically no stock of mass for further improvement. Well, unless of course it is examined by the main tank, and not by the parade general like the T-35 at one time.
        1. Dimon19661
          Dimon19661 29 June 2016 13: 12
          +22
          Do you know the specific gravity of the armor with internal filler? Or do you perfectly know the difference between the ARMAT gun and the T-90 gun? Are you aware of the manufacturing technology, the barrel cover of Almaty, the characteristics of the gun’s ballistics? Is the information secret so far. Are you aware of the decisions made by the transmission designers?
          1. Alekseev
            Alekseev 29 June 2016 17: 24
            +6
            Quote: Dimon19661
            Do you know the specific gravity of the internal-filled armor?

            That's right! good
            So far, the people who love armored vehicles have no specific and accurate data on Armata.
            So it should be, secrecy, however ...
            Therefore, we need to humbly wait, biting our tongues, although we would like to discuss something there on the new MBT.
            Well, he’ll go into service, and even be noted in combat, there will be hundreds and thousands of young tankers who operated him, then, yes, you can awaken to discuss specifically, such as the T-64 or T-72.
            After all, even the appearance of production vehicles in the troops can significantly differ from what we all observed at the parade.
          2. Cro-Magnon
            Cro-Magnon 30 June 2016 11: 02
            0
            You are right ... there are no such details ... but we know one thing for sure - the line-up! "ARMATA" is declared as a platform, but its layout as a platform for many types of cars is just stupidity ... why not swap two compartments: from the nose MTO-BO-OU ??! What nonsense is it to put the crew in the forward control compartment with an exit through the upper hatches !? And everything was explained by the increase in the survivability of the crew! I alone cannot understand this solution of constructors .. ??!
        2. Operator
          Operator 29 June 2016 22: 44
          0
          The height of the T-14 body is selected based on the placement of a loading automatic machine with a vertical arrangement of separate loading shots for the 152-mm 2A83 gun.

          The load capacity of a four-axle railway platform with an axial load of 25 tons is 76 tons.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Yars
        Yars 29 June 2016 17: 02
        +5
        Quote: Dimon19661
        How can you criticize a tank without having data not according to the scheme, not according to the composition of the reservation?

        but it is very simple - some people don’t find it difficult to serve their homeland for a piece of the dollar, so they troll for a reward ....
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. Disant
        Disant 29 June 2016 18: 48
        0
        so miracles do not happen - the elephant 1978 described what is clearly visible to the eye and what follows from this. for me, so the tower is still clearly heaped up.
      7. parkello
        parkello 1 August 2016 02: 38
        0
        Yes, he drives. laughing
    2. Sura
      Sura 29 June 2016 07: 55
      +2
      Slon, where did you get all this info? Have you personally participated in the development and testing? Only the outside of the tank and the fighting compartment were shown, and the rest was said to be classified. You may be arrested for violating state secrets. Run until it’s too late to run .... to the owners, otherwise Lefortovo ...
      1. Diana Ilyina
        Diana Ilyina 29 June 2016 09: 22
        +10
        Quote: Sura
        Slon, where did you get all this info? Have you personally participated in the development and testing? Only the outside of the tank and the fighting compartment were shown, and the rest was said to be classified. You may be arrested for violating state secrets. Run until it’s too late to run .... to the owners, otherwise Lefortovo ...


        In general, I got the impression that the entire opus from Slon is a ready-made work written in advance! And I even suspect I know the address where this so-called "constructive criticism" was published ...!
      2. Slon1978
        Slon1978 29 June 2016 09: 29
        -2
        There were articles with a detailed description of the external equipment of the T-14 tower, there are only 4 pieces of radar there, if my memory serves me right. Any new equipment only changes the tactics of its defeat, no military equipment is invulnerable. And if, for example, the Merkava MK-4 with KAZ Trophy became practically invulnerable to ATGM / RPGs, then it just comes down to changing the tactics of dealing with it: first, a shot from a large-caliber sniper rifle at the KAZ radar, then launching an ATGM. Therefore, first of all, you need to think about how the T-14 can be struck and complicate the task as much as possible.
        1. insular
          insular 29 June 2016 09: 44
          +7
          Quote: Slon1978
          there are only 4 radars there, if my memory serves me right.

          So you already want to say that the radars are in the reserved volume of the tower?
          Why is it suddenly concluded that the tower is made of bulletproof plywood? laughing
          What is the general relationship between the amount of electronics and the thickness of the reservation?
          Have you seen the section of the tower, do you know what is under the outer shields?
          1. Slon1978
            Slon1978 29 June 2016 11: 07
            -5
            A detailed close examination of the photographs shows that the external armor casing has local minor deformations from damage, which means the metal is quite thin - maximum anti-shatter.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Cat man null
          Cat man null 29 June 2016 10: 01
          +8
          Quote: Slon1978
          first shot from a large-caliber sniper rifle in the KAZ radar

          - so it is necessary to get it to manage still ...
          - inspired: "the world's best counter-sniper rifle is a 125-mm tacnova gun" (c) not mine

          Quote: Slon1978
          Therefore, first of all, you need to think about how the T-14 can be struck and complicate the task as much as possible

          - read about KAZ Almaty (Afganit is his name), you will discover a lot yes

          PS: minus is not mine request
          1. insular
            insular 29 June 2016 10: 07
            +4
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            - so it is necessary to get it to manage still ...

            laughing And break the triplex to the mechanical water ... with a bolt angry
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 29 June 2016 10: 14
              +2
              Quote: insular
              bolt

              - ts-ss-sss! I even guess which one ... bolt repeat
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Slon1978
            Slon1978 29 June 2016 10: 54
            -4
            Of course, I read about Afghanistan and read about Afghanistan, but look at the sectors fired by Afghanistan - frontal and lateral directions up to about 70 gr. from the longitudinal axis of the tank. This is generally reasonable because these directions are the most fired, but Afganit does not cover from an attack from above. If, for example, the use of Javelin on targets like BMP-1 is not always justified, then for a target like T-14 this ATGM will not be regretted. I studied a lot of materials on the T-14, although of course I’m not a specialist in tank building, but I still haven’t found reliable materials on how the tank is protected from the threat from above.
            1. lukewarm
              lukewarm 29 June 2016 13: 34
              +3
              The minus is not mine.
              Quote: Slon1978
              did not find reliable materials

              So there must be at least some secrecy. Really dump everything on the Internet?
            2. aba
              aba 30 June 2016 03: 05
              +2
              although of course not a specialist in tank building, but still did not find reliable materials on how the tank is protected from a threat from above.

              This question has worried Soviet designers since the 80s, so be calm, the answers to them probably appeared in 30 years.
            3. MaksoMelan
              MaksoMelan 5 July 2016 12: 47
              0
              I think you do not need to overestimate Jewelin. A modern dim curtain is enough. I don’t know how about coased cluster munitions. It seems to be on laser sensors and smoke should not pass the laser, as well as the IR spectrum for zhedelin. I leafed through somewhere on the site. Somewhere laid out the instructions for the Jewel and the pictures that are visible on it on the screen. There is a ban on shooting under ir interference, that is, only one attacked vehicle should be visible and not near. And not any bonfires or other fire. It will be enough to put on the tanks protection against stingers as in helicopters. And from the shell from the top, nothing has yet been saved.
              I have long thought that you need to come up with a corrected mortar for a mortar. In order to bomb technique from jacquered positions, especially for saboteurs. You’re sitting with a laser or something else pointed at the equipment, and from the Avraga the mine is flying further and it is guided. And there is no unmasking plume and it is more difficult to guess the direction from where it covered and where the reconnaissance is best. And all sorts of RPGs and birds are unmasking the direction where to look.
          4. The comment was deleted.
          5. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 29 June 2016 17: 19
            +2
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            - so it is necessary to get it to manage still ...
            - inspired: "the world's best counter-sniper rifle is a 125-mm tacnova gun" (c) not mine

            Duc ... you can just sprinkle with chalk.
            - inspired by: At the sniper competitions, the UMP won the calculation of the Minigun machine gun - in the credited minute, it hit the target 243 times. smile
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Skubudu
        Skubudu 29 June 2016 14: 35
        0
        Let's all be objective.
        The T-14 declared weight 48t.
        The T-90 declared weight 46.5t.
        But in terms of dimensions T-14 percent is 20 more than T-90
        Accordingly, with approximately equal armor, the T-14 should weigh at least 55 tons.
        There is no light armor.
        It turns out armor on the T-14 less.
        The T-14 tower turned out to be not acceptably high, for an uninhabited tower, even inhabited towers have a lower profile. The tilt angle of the T-14 armor is clearly not conducive to the BPS rebound.
        Afghanit, except for the chatter of journalists and scribble, not nothing, not a single video of the test. These mortars are at the bottom of the tower ... The manufacturer claims that the mortars are forward and if the rocket flies behind, the tank will automatically turn the tower towards the incoming rocket and hit it from the mortar. Then how to explain the only forward-facing mortars of Afghanistan on the T-15 ...? they are located on the hull and cannot turn to a rocket flying up behind ... And of course, the cornerstone is a rocket attack on the roof of a tower. Not a machine gun on a turret does not hit her, this is nonsense.
        for comparing dimensions
        1. KaPToC
          KaPToC 29 June 2016 15: 30
          +5
          Quote: Skubudu
          Accordingly, with approximately equal armor, the T-14 should weigh at least 55 tons.

          You think incorrectly, subtract the weight of the tower from the weight of the reinforcement, and move this weight to the case, and here is the missing mass. On various Soviet tanks, the tower weighs 7-9 tons, for example, the Abrams tower - 20 tons.
          1. activator
            activator 29 June 2016 17: 34
            -2
            Quote: KaPToC
            Quote: Skubudu
            Accordingly, with approximately equal armor, the T-14 should weigh at least 55 tons.

            You think incorrectly, subtract the weight of the tower from the weight of the reinforcement, and move this weight to the case, and here is the missing mass. On various Soviet tanks, the tower weighs 7-9 tons, for example, the Abrams tower - 20 tons.

            But this add-on on armature also has weight
            1. KaPToC
              KaPToC 29 June 2016 19: 26
              +2
              Quote: activator
              But this add-on on armature also has weight

              Not as significant as a tower with full armor.
        2. activator
          activator 29 June 2016 17: 31
          +3
          Quote: Skubudu
          The manufacturer claims that the mortars are located in the forward direction and if the rocket flies behind, the tank will automatically turn the tower towards the approaching rocket and hit it from the mortar.

          The decision is very controversial and how absurd for me it’s still easier to install mortars behind and not give the crew surprises in the form of a tower that will unfold by itself at the most inopportune moment.
        3. Voyager
          Voyager 30 June 2016 15: 38
          +1
          Quote: Skubudu

          Let's all be objective.
          The T-14 declared weight 48t.
          The T-90 declared weight 46.5t.
          But in terms of dimensions T-14 percent is 20 more than T-90
          Accordingly, with approximately equal armor, the T-14 should weigh at least 55 tons.

          You do not know the weight of the electronics and other components in both tanks.

          Quote: Skubudu
          There is no light armor.

          Why do you think so? So you rule out that new alloys may be lighter?

          Quote: Skubudu
          The T-14 tower turned out to be not acceptably high, for an uninhabited tower, even inhabited towers have a lower profile.

          The result of filling it with the same electronics, the possibility of access for maintenance and the top layer of dynamic protection.

          Quote: Skubudu
          Afghanit, except for the chatter of journalists and scribble, not nothing, not a single video of the test.

          They should not be. In addition, Afghanit is a whole complex, not only mortars with a striking part, but also several complexes with the launch of curtains.

          I doubt that you have anything to do with the armored structure. You do not teach a boxer how to beat when you watch boxing?
    3. shonsu
      shonsu 29 June 2016 08: 43
      +6
      I think you're wrong. in our other tanks, all devices in general on the tower without armor and nothing quite combat ready.
      1. Slon1978
        Slon1978 29 June 2016 09: 20
        -1
        There are much fewer devices on the T-90 and T-72. On the T-14, if you remove this casing, the entire tower is hung with instruments and this is all very expensive electronics.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 29 June 2016 09: 25
          +2
          Quote: Slon1978
          There are much fewer devices on the T-90 and T-72

          - willingly believe yes
          - and "much" is how much? And what devices are there on the T-14, the analogs of which would not be on the T-90, for example?

          Quote: Slon1978
          and T-14, if you remove this casing, the entire tower is hung with instruments and this is all very expensive electronics

          - how - you - can - know this? And what, by the way, is this "expensive electronics"? Quad system, no way? belay

          Slon1978Are you not tired of catching cons yet? After all, apart from blah blah blah, from the finger sucked out, you have nothing request
          1. Slon1978
            Slon1978 29 June 2016 09: 50
            -15%
            You can read the detailed description of the T-14 tower yourself, there is enough information on the network. For example here:
            http://warfiles.ru/show-87599-chto-predstavlyaet-iz-sebya-bashnya-tanka-t-14-arm
            ata.html

            Although specifically for this article, I have a fear that the author misinterpreted some of the tower devices.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 29 June 2016 14: 16
              +6
              Quote: Slon1978
              You can read the detailed description of the T-14 tower yourself, there is enough information on the network. For example here:

              Dear, do you have access to documents under the "stamp"? Almost everything is secret about Armata, and you here competently broadcast some kind of blizzard, and in Russian you scratch your tongue so as not to freeze.
              Links can not lead, because they are not worth a damn. These are all assumptions, conjectures and often incompetence.
              Stop this chatter, you look funny. BO this is not the Murzilka magazine ... here people are savvy and for the most part are friendly with their heads.
            2. Dimon19661
              Dimon19661 29 June 2016 14: 37
              +2
              Do you like to read speculations? And sacredly believe in them ???
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. zenion
            zenion 29 June 2016 16: 15
            +3
            But not from the finger, and not even from the trunk, but from the under-tail place and tail.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. user1212
      user1212 29 June 2016 09: 38
      +9
      Quote: Slon1978
      when "processing" a tank with 12,7-14,5 mm caliber, this casing will hang in rags

      Calculation of a machine gun is immortal in your opinion? 10 seconds after the first machine gun shots, a land mine will fly 125 mm into them. There will be nothing to identify. Exchange the machine gun and people for a ghostly chance to damage the tank cover with the first shots ... to put it mildly unreasonable
      Quote: Slon1978
      A shelling of a tank from a heavy machine gun can be carried out from relatively safe distances ....

      You can't. How not twist the land mine flies on. Plus "a robotic machine gun on the turret is integrated with the tank's AFAR radar and thermal imaging sight, ensuring the defeat of high-speed targets at a distance of up to 1.5 km." No chance
      Quote: Slon1978
      The armor of the tower casing should definitely not just be bulletproof, but it is desirable to withstand 14,5 mm from the front and side projections

      And why only 14.5mm, and not a 30mm BMP3 automatic gun, and even better 100mm 2A70 and AGM114 Hellfire in addition. So you can go far
      Quote: Slon1978
      Secondly, here more knowledgeable comrades may correct me, I don’t see how the T-14 is protected from ATGMs with an infrared homing head attacking from above

      There's some tricky infrared masking system. I have not met the details
      As for the rest: for a very long time there have been no head-to-head battles between armies of similar strength using tanks. I think the results of such a battle, with some conditions, would have changed a lot in all the schools of tank building in the world. As the saying goes, "a bullet changes a lot in the head, even if it hits ..." well, you get the idea laughing
      1. Slon1978
        Slon1978 29 June 2016 11: 05
        +2
        "Why only 14.5mm, and not 30mm BMP3 automatic cannon, or even better 100mm 2A70 and AGM114 Hellfire to boot. So you can go far."

        Because it is the largest caliber of those carried by man or transported by light transport such as a pickup truck. It is completely accessible to all kinds of irregular formation. There is of course the ZU-23-2, transported by truck, but this is already a serious weapon, which is much less widespread.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    5. Altona
      Altona 29 June 2016 10: 25
      +12
      Quote: Slon1978
      I sincerely like Armata, I see a clearly positive development of our domestic design thought on her example, as well as the continuation of our good tradition of "trendsetter" for the world of tank building and could write a lot of positive things about her, like many here, but this would not be too interesting. Therefore, I hope my criticism will be perceived as constructive. I would be glad to be mistaken in my assessments on these points and read adequate opinions.

      ------------------
      The whole hour-long film was on the TV channel "Star" about "Armatu". Everything goes, shoots, functions, the crew is comfortable. In the tank there is a complex of recognition of potential threats and their destruction. The series will do, work out. Do not dilute snot.
      On the issue of financing, the bankers were presented with a trillion rubles (970 billion), which they successfully converted and dumped, although they gave it "for lending to the real sector." Here's the 2000 stolen Armats. This is the question of money. This is all the mundaneity of our matsinal ilya and all their demagoguery. Even if the deputy director of the UAC speaks about the inexpediency of releasing civil aircraft. Around the unprintable "patriots" of the ruling party and their "liberal" friends from the economic bloc.
    6. Grenader
      Grenader 29 June 2016 13: 23
      +6
      Quote: Slon1978
      Secondly, here it is possible that more knowledgeable comrades will correct me, I do not see how the T-14 is protected from ATGM with an infrared homing head, attacking from above. No laser irradiation (to trigger the "Clouds") occurs when the Javelin is hovered over. Further, the rocket attacks from above, and the active defense elements of the Armata are directed to the frontal and lateral projections, but not upward.

      Please - the combat elements of the KAZ "Afghanit" are directed upward to protect the upper hemisphere. There was information that the incoming missiles should be detected by the radar.
      1. Slon1978
        Slon1978 29 June 2016 13: 44
        -4
        An approaching rocket is detected by IR and UV sensors that register the launch. But the photo shows shots of the Shtora system, or rather its modifications for the T-14.
        1. Homo
          Homo 29 June 2016 14: 34
          +1
          Quote: Slon1978
          Flying rocket is detected IR and UV sensors start logging.

          Did you understand what you wrote? belay
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 29 June 2016 22: 31
          +4
          In general, this system is called "Umbrella" - it protects the tank from above, from thermal homing heads, as well as laser guidance systems, using fine aerosol grenades.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    7. Alexey-74
      Alexey-74 29 June 2016 16: 15
      +3
      Slon, but you don’t think that all the issues that confuse you were taken into account, tested, checked at the training grounds. And what the designers think I know more than ours ... well, finally, you can’t just push the tank to the Ministry of Defense just like that .... There is only one answer - we are waiting for official adoption.
      1. Slon1978
        Slon1978 30 June 2016 07: 58
        +4
        Quote: Slon1978
        Secondly, here perhaps more knowledgeable comrades will correct me, I don’t see how the T-14 is protected from ATGMs with an infrared homing head attacking from above.


        After reading a lot of comments, I did not receive ANY answer in essence to my specific 2nd question regarding the protection of the T-14 from ATGMs attacking from above like Javelin, but I picked up a lot of disadvantages. At the expense of the minuses, this is expected and uncritical, but I confess I expected more constructiveness, professionalism and substantive answers from commentators. As a result, I found the answer myself, I am bringing it here to inform the "experts".
        T-14 has protection against ATGMs of the Javelin type - protection of non-destructive type, unlike the mortars of Afghanistan, located in the frontal and lateral projections. The DG Javelin’s IC is passive and it is impossible to track the launch by laser irradiation of the tank, but the launch is detected by a UV direction finder on the residual traces of the plasma from the working engine, then the missile is taken to accompany the long-range radar KAZ Afghanistan with AFAR. Unlike the KAZ Trophy radars and other similar systems, the KAZ Afganit radar has increased power and can take missiles with escort over a long distance. When a Javelin ATGM is guided into the upper hemisphere of the tank at the right time to calculate the trajectory, aerosol grenades containing aluminum dust and silicates are shot and detonated, which make the tank invisible in the IR range and lead to the breakdown of Javelin guidance.

        The only thing I would like to contact local commentators. Please be more constructive and do not look for "manifestations of the 5th column" where there is a critical discussion. I ended up finding the answer myself, although I was hoping someone would suggest it here.
        1. Essex62
          Essex62 30 June 2016 08: 40
          0
          Well done! Found the same.
    8. ism_ek
      ism_ek 30 June 2016 09: 00
      +1
      Quote: Slon1978
      Firstly, the shatterproof external armoring of the tower is confusing, not the bulletproof, namely the shatterproof.

      Are you a supporter of Oleg Kaptsov, who writes about armored ships?
      Apparently, the designers of Almaty consider that its active defense will intercept any shell or missile
    9. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 30 June 2016 15: 53
      +2
      This is not a splinterproof reservation - this is a metal product outside the tower - more like a camouflage hinge that protects the tower’s power structure from prying eyes.
  2. slimp
    slimp 29 June 2016 06: 00
    +11
    In this matter, I consider it quite possible and justified to include manual control from BB :)
    And the fact that our defense enterprises have problems and even with offshore - for some reason this does not surprise me.
    1. Altona
      Altona 29 June 2016 12: 34
      +1
      Quote: slimp
      In this matter, I consider it quite possible and justified to include manual control from BB :)
      And the fact that our defense enterprises have problems and even with offshore - for some reason this does not surprise me.

      ------------------
      I read about NPO "Basalt". They appointed "effective managers", they immediately removed the leading designers from making decisions, made some of the workshops leased out, took away the equipment in an unknown direction. This is how our defense industry operates now. Of course, there are positive examples, they built a plant for the production of S-400 in Nizhny, although some of the equipment was not purchased. This is how they work.
  3. dmi.pris
    dmi.pris 29 June 2016 06: 16
    +27
    It is simply necessary to nationalize ALL enterprises tied to the defense complex .. Otherwise, this deal will not bring to good ..
    1. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 29 June 2016 07: 00
      +7
      Alfa Bank has long been time to cover up and revoke the license, since its activities are against the interests of Russia in the field of defense. But you can not consider the T-14 as a panacea for everyone and everything. The machine is undoubtedly advanced and needed by the troops, but its level of complexity is high. Along with it, deliveries of the modernized T-90 are needed, but not the T-72B3, based on the experience of their combat use.
      1. Darkoff
        Darkoff 29 June 2016 07: 23
        +6
        In your opinion, private banks should sponsor the wishes of "effective" managers of defense enterprises free of charge?
        Personally, do you lend a lot to anyone without demanding a return?
        As long as the Ministry of Industry and Trade and Rostec appoint the former Komsomol activists to the leadership of the defense enterprises - Alpha Bank and a bunch of other banks will be the fifth column for you, although they require millet to return theirs, no more, no less.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 29 June 2016 08: 12
          +5
          Quote: DarkOFF
          they require millet to return theirs, no more, no less

          - Well, firstly, more, EMNIP (rummaged once in this topic, there the sums of Alpha's requirements as a result decreased by orders of magnitude. Not at times fellow )
          - Alpha - also not angels in the flesh, read about the owners of the bank, if not laziness
          - why UVZ was credited by such .. bad people - this, IMHO, is a separate and very interesting question wink
          1. Darkoff
            Darkoff 29 June 2016 08: 37
            +1
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            Quote: DarkOFF
            they require millet to return theirs, no more, no less

            - Well, firstly, more, EMNIP (rummaged once in this topic, there the sums of Alpha's requirements as a result decreased by orders of magnitude. Not at times fellow )

            No, no more. If UVZ, when signing the contract, recognized the right of the bank to demand so much, then the bank demands its rightfully.
          2. aksakal
            aksakal 30 June 2016 00: 12
            0
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            - Alpha - also not angels in the flesh, read about the owners of the bank, if not laziness

            - If I’m not mistaken, the citizens of Israel are masters there, in particular the very Friedman ...
            And I don't really understand why the strategic enterprises of the military-industrial complex are serviced by a bank owned by citizens of a UN-FRIENDLY state? Stupidity of the highest standard. In the USSR, the so-called. "first department", without a visa of this first department, not a single transaction of this enterprise took place. In this first department there were special officers, and so, be it now, as in the USSR, to this Volgograd enterprise "Krasny Oktyabr" of these "Alfovtsy" from the "Promised Land" (and what can't they sit there, on this beautiful land? Can't you afford peace? On the shores of the Dead Sea, why doesn't it catch fire? at the reception of this plant, it would have been sent to the minerader ... But it would have been in the USSR, and in Russia you have what you have.
            You can correct the situation by carefully analyzing for starters where foreign citizens can work, and where they cannot, and not just cannot, and where even their influence above a certain limit is unacceptable, and already carefully follow the appropriate policy. There is no such policy in Russia now, therefore, citizens of any unfriendly state, if they wish, can paralyze or in extreme cases seriously hinder the production of almost any defense products (that is, extremely important)! By the way, in Israel such a feint is impossible by definition, no matter what grandmas you have. And in Russia, any Israeli citizen has absolutely free access to any enterprise in Russia, including the saints and saints - space industry enterprises and military-industrial complex enterprises. I didn’t understand something, but with what fright is it at all?
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 30 June 2016 00: 35
              0
              Quote: aksakal
              - if I’m not mistaken, the citizens of Israel are masters there, in particular the same Friedman

              - was personally familiar, rare .. think for yourself laughing

              Quote: aksakal
              In the USSR, the so-called. "first department"

              - and now sits in some places ...

              Quote: aksakal
              to this Volgograd enterprise "Krasny Oktyabr" these "alphas" ... would not be allowed to shoot a cannon

              - you see ... both Red October and UVZ produce by no means only military products
              - what exactly is a loan taken for - yes Alpha doesn’t matter the same
              - well, you probably already understood

              Quote: aksakal
              citizens of any unfriendly state, if they wish, can paralyze or, in extreme cases, seriously impede the production of almost any defense product (that is, extremely important)

              - Yes, they really cannot do nicerta ... even the bankruptcy of an enterprise does not at all mean it, the enterprise, physical liquidation
              - and bankruptcy, most likely, will not happen. This "tempest in a glass" with the bankruptcy of either UVZ, or his daughter (something tractor), or Red October - it has been going on for several years already. The dog barks - the cow is walking. That is, not everything is so fatal.

              That's something like yes
          3. alexej123
            alexej123 4 August 2016 23: 38
            0
            Yes it should be called - Peter Aven and Mikhail Fridman. Personalities are still those, you are right.
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 4 August 2016 23: 52
              0
              Quote: alexej123
              Yes it should be called - Peter Aven and Mikhail Fridman. Personalities are still those you are right

              - as well as Herman Khan yes
        2. Kostyar
          Kostyar 29 June 2016 08: 22
          +3
          In your opinion, private banks should sponsor the wishes of "effective" managers of defense enterprises free of charge?

          Banks are already completely stupefied by excess profits!
          The country has long been held captive by these sociopathic bankers, who do not recognize the concepts of justice, decency and conscience ....., a society that they rob with complete impunity with the support of senior liberal officials !!!
          1. Darkoff
            Darkoff 29 June 2016 08: 47
            +6
            Quote: Bone
            In your opinion, private banks should sponsor the wishes of "effective" managers of defense enterprises free of charge?

            Banks are already completely stupefied by excess profits!
            The country has long been held captive by these sociopathic bankers, who do not recognize the concepts of justice, decency and conscience ....., a society that they rob with complete impunity with the support of senior liberal officials !!!

            Demagogy.
            Superprofit of banks consists of the fact that we carry in them ourselves and no one forces us. Do not bring money to the bank and it will not have super-profits. Live within your means and you will not have to pay interest on loans. The same applies to businesses. The "effective management" of the corporation's management drove it into debt, not Alfa-Bank.
            The corporation has a whole legal department, a financial department, a whole code of economists and other highly paid specialists, and a whole bunch of authorities that should have studied, analyzed, agreed upon this loan agreement.
            Claims by Alfa Bank and other creditors are legal and justified. The rest is demagogy.
        3. Altona
          Altona 29 June 2016 10: 28
          +1
          Quote: DarkOFF
          In your opinion, private banks should sponsor the wishes of "effective" managers of defense enterprises free of charge?

          -----------------
          Should the state give private banks money from the budget for their "additional capitalization"? Aren't they fat? And "effective" managers are someone's thieves and friends. This has long been known. Serdyukov is an illustrative example, the quintessence of the work of "Edra" in power.
        4. Essex62
          Essex62 30 June 2016 08: 59
          -2
          And it is necessary to liquidate private banks, as well as private ownership of the means of production in key sectors of the economy. Then let them bake pies. And also to establish a "threshold of wealth", with automatic issuance of a ticket to the Kolyma, in case of exceeding it. Elimination of the circulation of colored Masonic paper. And nefig citizens go for a drive on geyrop, idle, to bring any infection to the State. Over time, everyone will ride on it, but at least, on the same Armata and across the ocean they will float on a large landing ship. And the most important thing is to burn out the irrepressible passion for profit and golden toilets with a Hot Iron.
      2. Atlas
        Atlas 29 June 2016 22: 54
        -1
        A T-72B3 somewhere used in real combat ???? I have not heard this
    2. Hammer
      Hammer 29 June 2016 08: 20
      +1
      a brilliant idea, and invest in additional taxation =)
  4. doword
    doword 29 June 2016 06: 19
    0
    the t-14 has no crew on the turret so armor there will be higher than usual with the same dimensions
  5. Maki Avellevich
    Maki Avellevich 29 June 2016 06: 21
    +14
    However, by and large, all these foreign tanks can hardly be attributed to fully modern (new generation tanks). The same Merkava MK4 goes into service with the Israeli army about 12 years.


    a tank is not a bun. It seems that the author believes that it is necessary to develop a new tank every few years to be fresh.
  6. surrozh
    surrozh 29 June 2016 06: 27
    +9
    We stupidly copy the economic structure of the West, but success is not visible, even vice versa. Wrong way since 91 year.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 29 June 2016 09: 22
      +3
      Quote: surozh
      We stupidly copy the economic structure of the West, but success is not visible, even vice versa. Wrong way since 91 year.

      Because the appearance is copied, not the essence.
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 29 June 2016 13: 31
      +2
      Quote: surozh
      We don’t go there since 91 years.

      since 1987. Radical market reforms began in 1987. By 1991, the planned economy was already destroyed. Then the finishing stage began.
  7. Kenneth
    Kenneth 29 June 2016 06: 53
    0
    No one ever told what exactly the armata is cooler than the latest T90 modifications. Why do we need another type of OBT for which, in addition to its price, infrastructure costs are needed for maintenance.
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 29 June 2016 07: 25
      +4
      Quote: Kenneth
      No one ever told what exactly the Armata is cooler than the latest T90 modifications.

      - and won't tell. Have you ever heard the word "secrecy"? This is exactly what she is yes
      - Armata is already steeper than what it is, (damn it!) platform. On which there is also a T-15, and a whole range of combat vehicles is planned
      - unification of the platform leads, in the long run, to serious savings on maintenance (a hundred times already chewed here)

      That's something like request
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth 29 June 2016 09: 00
        +1
        The world leads to serious savings. And the platform is certainly good if it is not many times more expensive.
    2. Darkoff
      Darkoff 29 June 2016 07: 32
      0
      Quote: Kenneth
      No one ever told what exactly the Armata is cooler than the latest T90 modifications.

      Firstly, quite a lot has been said and shown. Internet to help you!
      Secondly, much is classified. Whoever is supposed to knows all the benefits.
      Quote: Kenneth
      Why do we need another type of OBT for which, in addition to its price, infrastructure costs are needed for maintenance.

      Do you think that the T-90 does not require infrastructure and maintenance costs? Well, when do you think the right time will come for the introduction of new armored vehicles? Or will we always upgrade the T-72?
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth 29 June 2016 08: 57
        +1
        Yes, I heard an uninhabited tower with a view in a circle and an armored capsule. This is of course delicious but does not fundamentally change the combat characteristics. In general, I strongly doubt that at the current level of development of ATGM any tank has an advantage over self-propelled guns. And the adversaries are mainly working on uninhabited structures and there is something not to see new tanks. As for the infrastructure, logistics for valves will be added to the stock of spare parts for the T72 and T80 ranges. Of course we are so fucking rich.
        1. KaPToC
          KaPToC 29 June 2016 13: 25
          0
          Quote: Kenneth
          As for the infrastructure, logistics for valves will be added to the stock of spare parts for the T72 and T80 ranges. Of course we are so fucking rich.

          Do you think that the new equipment is not needed at all?
    3. NikolaiN
      NikolaiN 29 June 2016 19: 33
      0
      Due to the lack of real characteristics, it is too early to say what is better than the T-14 of the same T-90. This machine seems to me very promising in terms of creating an "unmanned" tank. The crew already remotely, from an armored capsule, controls the vehicle and weapons, even if within the vehicle itself. It's only one step from here to an unmanned vehicle, I think it's harder to make a drone out of a T-90.
      1. Atlas
        Atlas 29 June 2016 23: 05
        +1
        I think nifiga is not more complicated, especially since Khalitov himself spoke about the t-90 and t-72 robotics.
        I am interested in another question.
        The Coalition Tower is installed on a 90-teak hull, they say that the same armored capsule is inside, but WHY then make a new tank ???? Is it possible to install an uninhabited module from Armata on the T-90 and redo the case ???
        Then, the conversion of Ukrainians 64-ki into a tank with an uninhabited tower does not seem so fantastic.
        Please enlighten me in this matter ...
        Just do not talk about the new single universal platform, savings, etc., etc. Such a platform already existed !!!!
        And MSTA and Solntsepek and BMO-T, and even the Terminator are on the same platform MBT. Still, there is no big conceptual difference in the T-72 and T-90 body, only in the reservation.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 29 June 2016 23: 17
          0
          Quote: Atlas
          Coalition Tower is mounted on a 90 teak hull, say that the same armored capsule inside

          I have huge doubts about this:

          - will require a serious re-arrangement of the "filling" of the driver's compartment. In order to expand it and shove this very capsule there
          - will require the transfer of the controls of the gunner and commander, including the sight BUT and other optics
          - ...

          Quote: Atlas
          WHY then make a new tank

          - Armata from the very beginning was conceived as a unified platform for a tank, heavy infantry fighting vehicle, self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers, and I remember what else
          - the goal is precisely to reduce (in the future, understandably) the time of the cost of servicing

          Quote: Atlas
          Then the conversion of Ukrainians 64-ki into a tank with an uninhabited tower does not seem so fantastic

          - No, well, you can foolishly ... break everything. But labor costs ... I would not, in short No.
          1. Atlas
            Atlas 29 June 2016 23: 37
            +1
            - Armata from the very beginning was conceived as a unified platform for a tank, heavy infantry fighting vehicle, self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers, and I remember what else
            - the goal is precisely to reduce (in the future, understandably) the time of the cost of servicing

            You apparently inattentively read my comment.
            We already had a single platform for the self-propelled gun BREM, there was no TBMP at that time but there is a BMO-T, in my opinion an awesomely protected vehicle. Why do we need another platform ???
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 29 June 2016 23: 52
              0
              Quote: Atlas
              You apparently inattentively read my comment

              And you, apparently, are mine wink

              Armata is a technologically new car. To list for a long time, well, you yourself probably saw ...

              - crew armored capsule
              - uninhabited fighting compartment
              - radar-cameras-KAZ-new armor is some kind of supernatural fellow
              - machine self-diagnosis system (rumored)
              - and many, many other tasty things

              Wherein:

              - in the future, it should replace an increasingly heavier BMP, and all this will be on a single platform
              - zoo from 64-k - 72-k - 80-k - 90's - someday it should end (I will not survive laughing )

              Here, in fact, that's all.

              In order to make at least an uninhabited fighting compartment in 64-ke - I wrote a couple of "hints" there above what it will result in.

              For me - so well-it-nafig ... Although - I'm not a constructo 64, just a "user". They want - let them suffer, maybe they will give birth to something sensible.

              That's something like yes
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 30 June 2016 00: 08
                +1
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                - zoo from 64-k - 72-k - 80-k - 90's - someday it should end (I will not survive)

                Rejoice if you don’t live, or it may happen that we all take part in such a serious conflict that this whole "zoo" will go into battle.
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 30 June 2016 00: 13
                  +1
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  Rejoice if you do not live ...

                  - good you laughing

                  Quote: KaPToC
                  it may turn out that we will all take part in such a serious conflict that this whole "zoo" will go into battle.

                  - everything can be ... as the "partners" say - "shit happens" request
          2. Cro-Magnon
            Cro-Magnon 30 June 2016 11: 37
            0
            With such a layout of the compartments, it is only suitable for ARVs ... and for a heavy infantry fighting vehicle and self-propelled guns, the layout of the armature is, to put it mildly, not rational ...
        2. KaPToC
          KaPToC 30 June 2016 00: 04
          +1
          Quote: Atlas
          The Coalition Tower is mounted on a 90-teak hull, they say that the same armored capsule inside

          It is physically impossible.
          Quote: Atlas
          remaking Ukrainians 64s into a tank with an uninhabited tower does not seem so fantastic

          It is fantastic
          Quote: Atlas
          And MSTA and Solntsepek and BMO-T, and even the Terminator are on the same platform MBT.

          When they talk about a single platform, it still means that at the factory various products will go on the same chassis, and not at all artisanal alteration of tanks removed from long-term storage into something.
      2. Cro-Magnon
        Cro-Magnon 30 June 2016 11: 33
        0
        But is the T-14 tomb too big for a drone ?! For me, so 10 drones in dimensions are slightly smaller than BMD, with different weapons and purposes, but acting together at the same cost will be several times more effective than any armatures ...
  8. Neputin
    Neputin 29 June 2016 06: 55
    +8
    Golden words: "We must nationalize." Any literate person understands that the state should maintain a monopoly on the state-forming industries. This is, first of all, the defense industry and, accordingly, the branches of heavy industry tied to it (machine tool building, metallurgy, etc.), fundamental science, transport and communications, energy and the extraction of natural resources. What do we see with us? They distributed everything. Now we are reaping the benefits - fraud, waste, disruption of defense orders and no one needs anything. At one time, Dr. Roshal said an excellent phrase: As soon as money interferes in any good business, the business disappears. In general, a slight feeling of hopelessness. Nobody will give anything to nationalize, they will tear with their teeth for their piece of meat. I am afraid that V. I. Lenin was right. Only the expropriation of the expropriators and the dictatorship of the proletariat (ie, methodically shoot these scoundrels).
    1. Darkoff
      Darkoff 29 June 2016 07: 49
      0
      Quote: Neputin
      Golden words: "We must nationalize." Any literate person understands that the state should maintain a monopoly on the state-forming industries. ... I'm afraid that V. I. Lenin was right. Only the expropriation of the expropriators and the dictatorship of the proletariat (that is, to shoot these scoundrels methodically).

      Passed, because that's all. How did it end?
      Take and share is the easiest way in the first step. And then - again, all over again ...
      When everything is common around, it is the same when everything is nobody's around and nobody really needs to fuck.
      Example: Uralvagonzavod Corporation. The sole owner of 100% of the shares is the state. Gnedir (Sienko) was appointed by Rostec. The corporation is in debt. The parent plant costs more than 10000 employees on forced leave because the cost of civilian products (wagons) is prohibitive and no one needs it at this price. High cost is a consequence of the costs of a mess in production and management.
      With both one and another form of ownership, one thing is important: LOVE HOMELAND. And such education is a matter of systematic and active work over several generations.
    2. komendor
      komendor 29 June 2016 08: 00
      0
      You can still build a new one.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Pimply
      Pimply 29 June 2016 09: 26
      +2
      Quote: Neputin
      Any literate person understands that the state should maintain a monopoly on state-forming industries.

      It is clear to any literate person that nationalization is not a big deal. A good example is the United States (with fully private defense companies) and Venezuela (with its nationalized industry and deficit that has arisen in general, still at high oil prices).
      1. Grenader
        Grenader 29 June 2016 13: 33
        +1
        Quote: Pimply
        It is clear to any literate person that nationalization is not a big deal. A good example is the United States (with fully private defense companies) and Venezuela (with its nationalized industry and deficit that has arisen in general, still at high oil prices).

        Just do not need to sculpt a hunchback. The USA and Venezuela are simply not fair to compare. The former have the world financial system subordinate, developed industry, etc. the second only has oil production. The price of oil will rise to $ 100 and Venezuela will completely heal itself. A particular form of ownership should be chosen by the state based on its own characteristics.
        1. alexej123
          alexej123 4 August 2016 23: 45
          0
          I support. Comparison "from the Evil One". Apple capitalization how much? Many times more than Gazprom and Rosneft. Although, if you take the cost of the equipment at least. Simple SPECULANTS. Several factories in China are worth more than the largest companies.
      2. Essex62
        Essex62 30 June 2016 15: 24
        +1
        The USA is not a state, it is a territory serving the world printing press. Take this machine away - everything will collapse. Statehood in the states has died along with F. D. Roosevelt.
    5. Essex62
      Essex62 30 June 2016 15: 16
      -2
      Exactly, we them - they us. Myself write with your teeth will hold on to his piece. And the teeth of these gentlemen are strong and muscles are pumped. Entire private armies have been created. It was already madness in the last century. Son to father, brother to brother. No, something smart is necessary here, in the constitutional field. We need to start with ideology, work with youth. Set her a vector, she will turn mountains and demolish oligarchs. These nonhumans must become outcasts in our society.
  9. kirgudu
    kirgudu 29 June 2016 07: 12
    +2
    Volgograd "Red October" has been trying for more than twenty years to bankrupt, demolish and build elite housing in its place. This has already been partially achieved, but so far he lives at the very least.
    But the Stalingrad Tractor was less fortunate, it had a cover and where tractors and tanks were previously manufactured - now it is ruins.
    Glory to the effective private owners, the best in the world, as we know from propaganda over the past 30 years.
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 29 June 2016 07: 22
      +2
      Quote: kirgudu
      Volgograd "Red October" for more than twenty years have been trying to bankrupt, demolish and build elite housing in its place

      - truth?

      Quote: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_October_(factory)
      Before the crisis of 2008, the plant was undergoing reconstruction to expand the production of alloy steels for special purposes. In September 2003, the plant smelted 37 tons of steel, and in September 582 this figure was 2004 tons. The number of steel grades by 55 amounted to more than 558 types, the number of employees reached 2008 thousand people. In 600, the Barrikady metallurgical complex, a diversified enterprise of special engineering with powerful forging and casting and foundry equipment, was attached to Krasniy Oktyabr.
      As a result of the 2008 crisis, due to the difficult financial situation at the enterprise, a monitoring procedure was introduced in November 2009. Since June 2, 2010, production at the enterprise has been resumed

      - strange somehow it turns out, right? If they want to demolish - then why reconstruct?
      1. kirgudu
        kirgudu 29 June 2016 08: 26
        +1
        You drive and look at him, and I contemplate this every day.
        From the barricades in general it is not clear what remains, all the 90s dragged from them who could.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 29 June 2016 09: 15
          +1
          Quote: kirgudu
          I contemplate this every day

          - inside or out? This, you know, is important wink

          Quote: kirgudu
          It’s not clear what’s left from the barricades, all the 90s dragged from them something that could

          - Do you have something to do with this enterprise, or also - "contemplate"?


          Here are the news from the Red October website:
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 29 June 2016 09: 04
      0
      In Volgograd, they want to build luxury housing - but who needs it there.
  10. Ivan Ivanovich
    Ivan Ivanovich 29 June 2016 07: 19
    0
    To do the following, take UVZ under the full control of the state, as well as under full control all purchases for T-14 components and solve the problem of reducing the cost without losing quality and missing deadlines. It all depends on the governing body, its authority and competence, and most importantly, do not steal !!! and everything will turn out ...
    1. Kenneth
      Kenneth 29 June 2016 07: 30
      +1
      How everything is simple and clear with you. But there is one delicate place - do not steal. And other. In order not to steal those who will control.
    2. Darkoff
      Darkoff 29 June 2016 08: 20
      0
      Quote: Ivan Ivanovich
      To do the following, take UVZ under the full control of the state, as well as under full control all purchases for T-14 components ...

      Formally, this is so. This has already been done ... formally. What's the point?

      Quote: Ivan Ivanovich
      It all depends on the governing body, its authority and competence, and most importantly, do not steal !!! and everything will turn out ...

      Yes Yes. But if everyone suddenly began to live strictly according to the 10 commandments, what kind of life would come then ...
      Interest should be with people, motivation. And not artificial, far-fetched, but real, natural. To hell with him with state control, let it be, but the leadership should appoint people who are purposeful, ambitious, capable of self-motivation, and not familiar good friends ...
  11. denchik1977
    denchik1977 29 June 2016 07: 56
    +4
    In the current international situation, Uralvagonzavod and the Ministry of Defense need to agree as soon as possible on a sufficient number of T-14 Armata tanks, which should be delivered to the troops in order to sufficiently ensure the defense capability of our country. Well, those who are trying to disrupt the financing of this project, then these "figures" should be involved under Art. 275 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, regardless of whether we are talking about any separate bank, or the leaders of the financial and economic block in the government of the Russian Federation, including the head of the cabinet himself.
    1. pafegosoff
      pafegosoff 29 June 2016 08: 33
      0
      I absolutely agree, there is treason, similar to sabotage.
  12. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff 29 June 2016 08: 31
    0
    Our super-smart deputies should not deal with shit, but adopt a simple one (just a simple one page, without any explanation and additions, the law on confiscation without obligations), - steal, commit a raider move, ruin the enterprise, drive people out into the street - the owner and immediate relatives, as well as an accomplice, are completely confiscated and declared debtors for life, until payment, the state is not responsible for their debt to banks, but is obliged to employ people and restore enterprise, if it is of strategic importance. The owner of the new enterprise for life is the state, without the right to sell and bankruptcy.
  13. Flinky
    Flinky 29 June 2016 08: 49
    +1
    Bankruptcy means nothing. This is a lender protection procedure. How many times have already explained ... No, constantly screams are heard "AAAA, they are bankrupt! Production of Armata will stop!" Nothing will stand up. Nobody can cancel obligations under contracts. Even the bankruptcy trustee.
  14. GEV67
    GEV67 29 June 2016 09: 08
    -4
    All production of military equipment, starting from the smallest detail, should belong only to the State, otherwise there will be no sense.
    1. Skubudu
      Skubudu 29 June 2016 15: 20
      +2
      Say it Lockheed Martin
  15. amr
    amr 29 June 2016 09: 32
    +1
    Quote: Slon1978
    From this I conclude that the T-14 will never be our truly MAIN battle tank, but will be something like a "commander's" tank operating in the T-90 and T-72 groups. Including because of its price, which, of course, will certainly decrease with serial production, but it is unlikely even to come close to the price of the T-90 for objective reasons.
    I sincerely like Armata, I see a clearly positive development of our domestic design thought on her example, as well as the continuation of our good tradition of "trendsetter" for the world of tank building and could write a lot of positive things about her, like many here, but this would not be too interesting. Therefore, I hope my criticism will be perceived as constructive. I would be glad to be mistaken in my assessments on these points and read adequate opinions.

    By the way, there is a very interesting idea of ​​the "COMMANDER TANK", like that of helicopters of the Ka series, it can also be equipped with UAVs that are launched through the barrel of a cannon))), there will be no price at all ... then the ratio of one Armata to 5-10 T-90 or 72 is quite justified
  16. dsm100
    dsm100 29 June 2016 09: 46
    +1
    Whatever anyone says, this is a new tank and this is the first development that reached prototypes after the collapse of the USSR. Everything will be brought to mind and I have no doubt about it. Even if there were miscalculations somewhere. And this is our tank without Ukrainians and everyone else. Proud of our country and the achievements of our scientists and designers. And whoever criticizes the T-14, let them blow on ...!
  17. Shuttle
    Shuttle 29 June 2016 10: 25
    0
    Stop srach about T-14. This is a transitional stage to real teletanks. When the crew will not be not only in the fighting compartment, but in general on the battlefield. When the tank will be controlled completely remotely by feeble cranks with burning eyes and the reaction of the best Counter-Strike players sitting in a warm dry bunker near Moscow with lemonade and buns.
    Remember my word - strong men in the tank units will be engaged in the maintenance of these glands at the bases of armament and repair. Repair infrastructure will be at least two-level. Field modular repair on the first line. Repair of the modules themselves will be carried out in the rear. The fighting compartment will become the same interchangeable module as the engine-transmission unit. Those. the tank will actually become a carrier for combat modules. This has almost happened with rocket artillery. The same will be with tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. And someday with field aviation.
  18. Yutas
    Yutas 29 June 2016 10: 50
    0
    And how was it supposed that the strategic enterprise for the country owed some Cypriot offshore? In my opinion, all financial operations of such factories should be under the scrutiny of special services.
  19. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 29 June 2016 11: 00
    0
    Dear forum users, there are forum rules, you need to upload a link to the source, because there is no work, especially when discussing such a topic (the bulk of the materials with the bar). We sculpt that no one gets, and then we scratch our turnips - where the leaks come from.
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. aleksklo
    aleksklo 29 June 2016 11: 26
    +1
    "Red October" is not going bankrupt by accident. Someone really does not want Armata to join the troops. And again this is happening, like the bankruptcy of other enterprises of the defense industry, with the initiative of the banking sector in Russia, which, as you know, does not belong to it. The parent company is ABH Financial Ltd., registered offshore in Cyprus.
    More than 75% of the bank’s shares are owned by Alfa Group: in fact, this package is indirectly owned or controlled by Mikhail Fridman (36.47%), German Khan (23.27%) and Alexey Kuzmichev (18.12%); the remaining shares are owned by individuals, including the president of the bank, Peter Aven (13.76%).
  22. Lanista
    Lanista 29 June 2016 12: 33
    +3
    Quote: Slon1978
    Secondly, here it is possible that more knowledgeable comrades will correct me, I do not see how the T-14 is protected from ATGM with an infrared homing head, attacking from above. No laser irradiation (to trigger the "Clouds") occurs when the Javelin is hovered over. Further, the rocket attacks from above, and the active defense elements of the Armata are directed to the frontal and lateral projections, but not upward.

    Little educational program for the Elephant1978.
    1. The javelin is targeted by a contrasting infrared image; the Javelin operator must select a target that has IR contrast against the battlefield. Javelin can be launched along two paths: straight and "from above". The Javelin's armor-piercing ability does not allow to effectively work on the T-14 with a direct launch (even on board), i.e. in this case, we are dealing with a situation where Java will be launched along a trajectory "from above". So, structurally on the T-14 it is made so that the upper projection has a minimum IR contrast (the exhaust slots are directed downward and have their own cooling system, most of the area of ​​the upper projection of the MTO is covered by the rear part of the tower). Those. from above, Java simply will not find the T-14 (the IR picture is not only low-contrast, but also differs in projections). And then there is the "Cape" ...
    2. For the protection of the upper projection - see the photo. Obviously, the presence of a remote sensing device on the roof of the tower and the direction of a part of the Afganites upward.
    1. Professor
      Professor 29 June 2016 14: 18
      0
      Quote: Lanista
      Little educational program for the Elephant1978.

      And now you have an educational program.
      1. Javelin is aimed at a contrast target in the IR range, such as the Dushman clay wagon.

      The tank, even with the engine off, is an excellent contrast target.
      Both "straight and top" paths are actually top.


      Upper projection is irrelevant. Capture the target is at the same level as the tank. Roughly: forehead, side or stern. See flight path.
      Javelin doesn't need to "look for" anything. He stupidly holds the target. Exhaust gases have nothing to do with it. The GOS is not aimed at them.
      "Cape" is easily overcome by reducing the distance of the shot.

      2. The upper projection is a priori the least protected. And where in the sight of the tank above the radar looking up?
      1. activator
        activator 29 June 2016 14: 35
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        And now you have an educational program.
        1. Javelin is aimed at a contrast target in the IR range, such as the Dushman clay wagon.

        Something tells me that with the advent of the professor, the branch should come to life. laughing
      2. Lanista
        Lanista 29 June 2016 16: 38
        +1
        The points.
        1. According to the clay wagon - the video does not have a clear understanding of the purpose for which they worked. There could have been a car and a bonfire around which dummies are basking.
        2. If the appearance of the tank does not give an unambiguous understanding of the presence / absence of AFAR, this does not mean that the existing radar does not see the approach of Java or the same type of ammunition. Radar for this and should not look strictly up.
        1. Professor
          Professor 29 June 2016 17: 08
          -1
          Quote: Lanista
          1. According to the clay wagon - the video does not have a clear understanding of the purpose for which they worked. There could have been a car and a bonfire around which dummies are basking.

          The Taliban lacks armored vehicles in general. The video worked on foot militants. There are dozens of such videos from Afghanistan. Will watch? About warming the Taliban in the summer near the fire smiled. smile

          Quote: Lanista
          2. If the appearance of the tank does not give an unambiguous understanding of the presence / absence of AFAR, this does not mean that the existing radar does not see the approach of Java or the same type of ammunition. Radar for this and should not look strictly up.

          This is just the case when it is necessary to prove the presence of something, and not the absence thereof. Moreover, looking at the tank from above, I never see the KAZ charges looking up. Maybe show the arrow? Nevertheless, the presence or absence of KAZ does not in any way change the performance characteristics of Javelin, its advantages and disadvantages. As well as the fact that Javelin’s hit on a tank (any tank) is likely to lead to a tank defeat. Roof knowers ... request
          1. Lanista
            Lanista 29 June 2016 19: 13
            +3
            Quote: Professor
            The Taliban lacks armored vehicles in general. The video worked on foot militants. There are dozens of such videos from Afghanistan. Will watch? About warming the Taliban in the summer near the fire smiled.

            Regarding the lack of technology - do you apply this postulate to cars? Taliban Islam bans internal combustion engines as a class of technology?
            It is possible to work out on foot militants from Java, but this is called "grenade launcher mode" - there the GOS is not involved at all. Or do you really believe that the GOS Java is designed for the "lonely wandering Homo Sapiens" target?
            And yes, the video is never summer. Believe me.
            Quote: Professor
            This is just the case when it is necessary to prove the presence of something, and not the absence thereof.

            YES DO NOT NEED a radar on top. An ordinary one (that is, which "looks" forward) is quite enough, its viewing angle allows you to track Java.
            1. Professor
              Professor 29 June 2016 19: 49
              -3
              Quote: Lanista
              Regarding the lack of technology - do you apply this postulate to cars? Taliban Islam bans internal combustion engines as a class of technology?

              The Americans themselves would give the Taliban cars. so it would be easier to send to Allah. But the Taliban are scoundrels and mostly on foot along mountain paths and between the wagons in the villages.

              Quote: Lanista
              It is possible to work out on foot militants from Java, but this is called "grenade launcher mode" - there the GOS is not involved at all.

              Learn the materiel. For whom did I translate these articles? For yourself? I understand them well in the original.

              ATRA Javelin

              Critical technological difficulties in the development of ATGM Javelin. Part of 1

              Critical technological difficulties in the development of ATGM Javelin. Part of 2

              Quote: Lanista
              Or do you really believe that the GOS Java is designed for the "lonely wandering Homo Sapiens" target?

              Javelin is monopenessally homo or not homo. He needs a contrast.

              Quote: Lanista
              And yes, the video is never summer. Believe me.

              I believe. Full of snow. wassat


              Quote: Lanista
              YES DO NOT NEED a radar on top. An ordinary one (that is, which "looks" forward) is quite enough, its viewing angle allows you to track Java.

              Duc like Javelin flies from above? Or not? wink
  23. Slon1978
    Slon1978 29 June 2016 13: 05
    -1
    Quote: Lanista
    Little educational program for the Elephant1978.

    Thanks for the comment, you are probably the first who tried to answer on the merits. But I do not agree with you. Firstly, those events that you listed only reduce the thermal contrast of the T-14, but do not exclude the capture of its GOS Javelina. They still needed to be implemented, but they did not give a guarantee. Modern infrared imagers / infrared seekers have extremely high sensitivity, seekers cooled with nitrogen. Therefore, in theory, such events may complicate the capture of the T-14 GOS Javelin possibly on a hot sunny day (and for the second attempt, there may not be enough GOS cooler, it will be necessary to change the cartridge), but not in the morning or in the evening, and even more so not in the cold season. . Secondly, the T-14 does not have a DZ on the top of the tower - these are technological hatches for maintenance. What you took for KAZ shots on the left side in the back of the tower, pointing up, I did not find reliable evidence of this (from the manufacturer or officials), so far this is only a guess. I personally believe that these are shots from the Stor system. They are too small in comparison with the shots of Afghanistan on the sides ...
    1. Lanista
      Lanista 29 June 2016 16: 40
      0
      Quote: Slon1978
      Secondly, the T-14 does not have a DZ on the top of the tower - these are technological hatches for maintenance.

      Here I do not agree with you. Compare the square elements on the roof of the tower with the same on the hull (in front of the hatches) - this is definitely DZ.
      1. 11 black
        11 black 29 June 2016 17: 14
        0
        Quote: Slon1978
        Thanks for the comment, you are probably the first who tried to answer on the merits. But I do not agree with you. Firstly, those events that you listed only reduce the thermal contrast of the T-14, but do not exclude the capture of its GOS Javelina. They still needed to be implemented, but they did not give a guarantee. Modern infrared imagers / infrared seekers have extremely high sensitivity, seekers cooled with nitrogen. Therefore, in theory, such events may complicate the capture of the T-14 GOS Javelin possibly on a hot sunny day (and for the second attempt, there may not be enough GOS cooler, it will be necessary to change the cartridge), but not in the morning or in the evening, and even more so not in the cold season. . Secondly, the T-14 does not have a DZ on the top of the tower - these are technological hatches for maintenance. What you took for KAZ shots on the left side in the back of the tower, pointing up, I did not find reliable evidence of this (from the manufacturer or officials), so far this is only a guess. I personally believe that these are shots from the Stor system. They are too small in comparison with the shots of Afghanistan on the sides ...


        Quote: Lanista
        Here I do not agree with you. Compare the square elements on the roof of the tower with the same on the hull (in front of the hatches) - this is definitely DZ.


        Javelin, like any "Shot and Forgot" missile, is vulnerable, or rather EXTREMELY VULNERABLE to a laser missile defense system, such as "Vitebsk", aka "President-S".
        The tank has everything necessary for capturing and tracking the target (circular SOAR cameras, 4 radar in the tower, onboard CIUS) - I can’t give evidence - everything is secret and there is no data, but I’m ready to eat a hat without mustard if under one of the tower hatches a laser emitter of such a system is not installed - the issue with Javelin / Spike / Hellfire and others like that has been resolved.
        1. Professor
          Professor 29 June 2016 19: 34
          0
          Quote: 11 black
          Javelin, like any "Shot and Forgot" missile, is vulnerable, or rather EXTREMELY VULNERABLE to a laser missile defense system, such as "Vitebsk", aka "President-S".
          The tank has everything necessary for capturing and tracking the target (circular SOAR cameras, 4 radar in the tower, onboard CIUS) - I can’t give evidence - everything is secret and there is no data, but I’m ready to eat a hat without mustard if under one of the tower hatches a laser emitter of such a system is not installed - the issue with Javelin / Spike / Hellfire and others like that has been resolved.

          Not so fast
          1. Similar systems were not used and are unlikely to be used on the tank. They are VERY expensive and narrowly targeted. Unlike the traditional KAZ, they are even theoretically unable to intercept RPGs, ATGMs of the 1st and 2nd generation and anti-tank shells.
          2. Even if the EETA system manages to blind the ATGM’s GSN, then it’s sneaky will continue flying by inertial and since it’s more agile than the tank ...
          3. The laser is monochromatic and the simplest filter on the anti-tank guided missile array makes the laser useless.

          So enjoy your meal. drinks
          1. 11 black
            11 black 30 June 2016 16: 29
            0
            Quote: Professor
            1. Similar systems were not used and are unlikely to be used on the tank.

            This is your personal opinion - Armata, I repeat, has everything you need to install such a system - you only need the emitter itself, everything else ALREADY IS,
            Quote: Professor
            2. Even if the EETA system manages to blind the ATGM’s GSN, then it’s sneaky will continue flying by inertial and since it’s more agile than the tank ...

            And if the tank is moving? And what is the variation in inertial? Does Jov have it at all? And if the breeze blows? - not so fast prof!
            Quote: Professor
            3. The laser is monochromatic and the simplest filter on the anti-tank guided missile array makes the laser useless.

            Prof prof prof - no doubt - the filter will remove all IR radiation in a specific and very narrow range - the problem is that it will remove AT ALL (the radiation power will be higher than the true signal)!
            How do you distinguish a tank if the filter cleans tightly a certain frequency at which your seeker operates? - what do you see then - void or what?
            And yet - this system blinds the GOS both in the visible and in the IR range, which means it works by wavelengths both in the IR and in visible light - and the filter here will not help you in any way.
            Here's a shot of the President’s real work on the Eagle (At the end of the video) - and with Jov it will be the same.


            PS - something like this winked
            1. Professor
              Professor 30 June 2016 19: 24
              0
              Quote: 11 black

              This is your personal opinion - Armata, I repeat, has everything you need to install such a system - you only need the emitter itself, everything else ALREADY IS,

              This is not my personal opinion, it is a medical fact. Such systems are not installed on tanks, and they are unlikely to be.

              Quote: 11 black
              And if the tank is moving? And what is the variation in inertial? Does Jov have it at all? And if the breeze blows? - not so fast prof!

              Learn the materiel. I have already posted the links.

              Quote: 11 black
              Prof prof prof - no doubt - the filter will remove all IR radiation in a specific and very narrow range - the problem is that it will remove AT ALL (the radiation power will be higher than the true signal)!

              Less fantasy and more hardware. The laser is monochromatic and the filter will only close it.

              Quote: 11 black
              How do you distinguish a tank if the filter cleans tightly a certain frequency at which your seeker operates? - what do you see then - void or what?

              Learn physics. Start with the width of the IR spectrum and the width of the laser spectrum.

              Quote: 11 black
              And yet - this system blinds the GOS both in the visible and in the IR range, which means it works by wavelengths both in the IR and in visible light - and the filter here will not help you in any way.

              Yah? Do you have a wide-spectrum laser? Nobel Prize to you. wassat

              Quote: 11 black
              Here's a shot of the President’s real work on the Eagle (At the end of the video) - and with Jov it will be the same.

              1. Will not be. The ATGM and MANPADS GOS operate on different principles.
              2. Sound the cost of the President. That's it.
              1. 11 black
                11 black 30 June 2016 21: 36
                0
                Quote: Professor
                This is not my personal opinion, it is a medical fact. Such systems are not installed on tanks, and they are unlikely to be.

                Nevertheless, this is just an opinion. Your opinion and only, but for example I don’t think so ...
                Quote: Professor
                Less fantasy and more hardware. The laser is monochromatic and the filter will only close it.

                Not a laser, but a LASER PROJECTOR prof ... a sapphire lamp with modular radiation - do not consider everyone around you as idiots and really - learn the materiel!
                Quote: Professor
                Yah? Do you have a wide-spectrum laser? Nobel Prize to you. wassat

                Do not say nonsense - it is better to think about a semiconductor laser in a pulsed mode, which randomly changes the radiation frequency of each pulse ...
                But I repeat, powerful modular radiation of a sapphire lamp will be enough to score ALL RANGE.
                Quote: Professor
                1. Will not be. The ATGM and MANPADS GOS operate on different principles.

                Really - and what is the difference? Take the trouble to explain prof!
                Quote: Professor
                2. Sound the cost of the President. That's it.

                Firstly, I will announce the cost of Almaty - 250 million rubles.
                Secondly, the cost of the President is not important, the tank (Armata) already has everything you need (SOAR cameras and 4 radar AFAR + BIUS), you only need 1-2 pulsed semiconductor laser IR emitters or sapphire spotlights of modular light - that's all.

                PS - all info from open sources if that ...
                1. Professor
                  Professor 1 July 2016 08: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: 11 black
                  Nevertheless, this is just an opinion. Your opinion and only, but for example I don’t think so ...

                  Give the facts of the installation of such systems on armored vehicles or the facts of the development of similar systems for armored vehicles. That's it. request

                  Quote: 11 black
                  Not a laser, but a LASER PROJECTOR prof ... a sapphire lamp with modular radiation - do not consider everyone around you as idiots and really - learn the materiel!

                  Everything mixed in the Oblonskys' house, horses and people, sapphire lamps and laser projectors. What is "modular radiation"? Have you come up with it yourself? wink

                  Quote: 11 black
                  Do not say nonsense - it is better to think about a semiconductor laser in a pulsed mode, which randomly changes the radiation frequency of each pulse ...

                  Let's take an example of such a laser in a studio. Your fantasies are beginning to bore me. By the way, Agilent's laser with a reconfigurable radiation frequency costs about $ 100. Throw in one zero for "militarization" and multiply by 000-2. But this does not solve the problem either.

                  Quote: 11 black
                  But I repeat, powerful modular radiation of a sapphire lamp will be enough to score ALL RANGE.

                  Rave. The lamp will score nothing, but only highlight the tank. Curtain is an example.

                  Quote: 11 black
                  Really - and what is the difference? Take the trouble to explain prof!

                  Learn the materiel. Everything is here: www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA454087

                  Quote: 11 black
                  Firstly, I will announce the cost of Almaty - 250 million rubles.

                  This is not the cost of Almaty, but just Wishlist. The real cost will be an order of magnitude higher with the Sochi Olympics.

                  Quote: 11 black
                  Secondly, the cost of the President is not important,

                  Yeah. And we won’t regret a million dollars to protect the tank from MANPADS. fool
                  1. 11 black
                    11 black 1 July 2016 15: 10
                    0
                    Prof - I'm tired of you, honestly ... of course, the specialists of the Ekran Research Institute, the Elins Scientific and Technical Center, the Reagent Moscow Scientific and Technical Center, the Zenit Special Design Bureau, as well as the State Commission of the Ministry of Defense and the FSB (such a system is installed on the president's plane) this is so, it is not clear who, and their opinion is not worth anything against the opinion of the "professor" ...
                    The truth is that the thought of an IR filter came to my mind after 5 minutes from how I learned about such systems - and that means that it came to professionals in this field after 5 seconds ... and yet a number of such systems stand on armament of the Republic of Armenia and is protected not only by the KA-52, MI-28Н, Su-25, T-50 and MiG-31, but also the aircraft of the President of the Russian Federation.

                    A similar system was developed in Germany, at the moment something similar is being developed by the French together with the Hindus - but all these guys are fools - after all, they did not think about filters ...

                    The truth is that a beam projector with a special sapphire lamp of modular radiation clogs the entire working range of the infrared seeker from several hundred meters - this is confirmed by actual tests using the SAM launcher, whose seeker works in the same range as that of Jov ... exactly how the spotlight is working, I wouldn’t tell you even if I knew, but I saw the result of its work - it’s very impressive (it was this spotlight that was tested - the range is certainly not laser - the light scattering is strong, but the whole range is clogged and even not one out of cancer em didn’t hit the target, moreover - missiles fled from the target in the opposite direction from IR traps).
                    I just won’t say for sure about the laser, TOP SECRET, but according to rumors, through friends I knew, my friends finished it, so there’s no need to develop anything - ALL ALREADY IS.

                    For this I leave you alone - tired.



                    PS - say hello to the massada ...
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 1 July 2016 15: 16
                      0
                      Quote: 11 black
                      Prof - I'm tired of you, honestly ...

                      I'm glad that I'm tired of you. Maybe this will make you study the materiel and not be nonsense.

                      Quote: 11 black
                      .of course, the specialists of the Research Institute "Ekran", the STC "Elins", the Moscow Scientific and Technical Center "Reagent", the Special Design Bureau "Zenith" as well as the State Commission of the Ministry of Defense and the FSB (such a system is installed on the president's plane) it is so, it is not clear who, and their opinion there is nothing against the opinion of the "professor" ...

                      Show a link to their opinion.

                      Quote: 11 black
                      A similar system was developed in Germany, at the moment something similar is being developed by the French together with the Hindus - but all these guys are fools - after all, they did not think about filters ...

                      A similar system has long been on Israeli commercial airliners, but no one is going to put it on tanks.

                      http://defense-update.com/20110621_c-music.html
                      Quote: 11 black
                      whose GOS works in the same range as Jov’s ..

                      I will stop feeding you. Have you read the link in the previous post? There are detailed and GOS MANPADS and GOS ATGM.

                      PS
                      What is "modular radiation"? Have you come up with it yourself? wink
      2. activator
        activator 29 June 2016 17: 27
        +1
        Quote: Lanista
        Quote: Slon1978
        Secondly, the T-14 does not have a DZ on the top of the tower - these are technological hatches for maintenance.

        Here I do not agree with you. Compare the square elements on the roof of the tower with the same on the hull (in front of the hatches) - this is definitely DZ.

        Doubts are tormenting if this is a dz, then when triggered, they will unambiguously take out the panorama of the cas, in which case it is preferable and more economical in the end, the panorama is an expensive thing.
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. iliya87
    iliya87 29 June 2016 14: 06
    +2
    Yes, you understand a lot here! Learn from the Stars and Stripes !!! Here is the thing)))
  26. praide
    praide 29 June 2016 14: 31
    +2
    Quote: Neputin
    Any literate person understands that the state should maintain a monopoly on state-forming industries.

    Well, Aeroflot was a state-owned company. What didn’t stop Berezovsky famously from stealing the hotel.
    There must be an iron law (100% executable)
    Stole- to prison with the confiscation of everything. Fled to another country, did not run!
  27. Mentat
    Mentat 29 June 2016 14: 31
    0
    Quote: DarkOFF
    The superprofits of banks consist of what we carry in them ourselves and no one forces us.

    You are very naive.
  28. Burmistr
    Burmistr 29 June 2016 14: 51
    +1
    At the same time, the presence of obvious financial problems in the "Red October" simply by definition cannot but cause an increase in risks. After all, if the bankruptcy procedure is brought to an end if the owner, working through an offshore structure, does not want to pay off the debts, then the entire special supply system for UVZ may come into question.


    Hmm ... Is it weak to nationalize the plant?
  29. minirulet
    minirulet 29 June 2016 14: 57
    0
    Quote: Bone
    The general director of the Volgograd enterprise Dmitry Gerasimenko, according to some reports, is now hiding from Russian justice in Switzerland.

    Well, how much can you ?!
    When they begin to shoot these traitors, it’s not getting into any gates ...?!

    But never. For the very structure of power in our country encourages officials to bribery and theft and cutting the budget. The fish rots from the head.
  30. Algetxnumx
    Algetxnumx 29 June 2016 16: 30
    +1
    The trouble is poor, the RF Ministry of Defense has no money to buy the T-14, in general, the military does not have money at first, the state gives it to them, and if the state does not have money to strengthen the country's defense capabilities, it has all sorts of things etc., then this means the state is somehow not right, or rather the leadership of this state.
  31. Algetxnumx
    Algetxnumx 29 June 2016 16: 40
    0
    Quote: Professor
    And now you have an educational program.

    Professor, but something is so modest, they would have slashed the truth of the uterus that "armata" is a complete g, Merkava Forever, in short, everything here is not of traditional orientation, and you are a Dartanyan. And then a javelin, a mavelin, is too small for a "professor" ...
  32. Mentat
    Mentat 29 June 2016 17: 04
    0
    Quote: minirulet
    the very structure of power in our country encourages officials to bribery and theft and cutting the budget.

    Does the presidency institute or parliamentary system encourage officials to bribery? Speak more clearly and more adequately.
  33. Billgejtz
    Billgejtz 29 June 2016 17: 08
    +1
    tear off the eggs to Friedman and Abel and the alpha bank will immediately become silk
  34. Mentat
    Mentat 29 June 2016 18: 51
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Lanista
    Little educational program for the Elephant1978.

    And now you have an educational program.

    Wow hoo! Likbez from the "professor", it must be something with something. We honor this ingenious!

    1. Javelin is aimed at a contrast target in the IR range, such as the Dushman clay wagon.

    Everyone watches the video and thinks: “Well, that’s it, kapets to the hut of Dushman from a shot for $ 120 !!” Something’s hut continues to stand ... Well, all right, but how it is induced!

    The tank, even with the engine off, is an excellent contrast target.

    You are strange, “professor” ... Although, you, apparently, were banned in Google, Wikipedia and Yandex and generally banned from using search engines. Therefore, you do not like it when you are sent there, when you demand justifications, why 2 + 2 = 4. Exactly, this explains everything!

    In the public domain, “professor”, there is already information on the T-14 that this is the first stealth tank in the world, in the design of which means are used that drastically reduce its visibility, including for Javelin, plus jamming, plus an EMP weapon, plus KAZ.

    2. The upper projection is a priori the least protected. And where in the sight of the tank above the radar looking up?

    Radar, looking up? .. "Professor", today you have surpassed yourself ... This, perhaps, can be called a genuinely laid-back bacchanalia of technical absurdity.
    1. Professor
      Professor 29 June 2016 19: 41
      -1
      Quote: Mentat
      Wow hoo! Likbez from the "professor", it must be something with something. We honor this ingenious!

      And you were blown away on the last topic when you found out that RPG LAU weighs 2.5 kg? Wasn’t it an educational program for you? laughing

      Quote: Mentat
      Everyone watches the video and thinks: “Well, that’s it, kapets to the hut of Dushman from a shot for $ 120 !!” Something’s hut continues to stand ... Well, all right, but how it is induced!

      Guess three times what happens when Javelin loses his goal. I will not send you to Google how you do it. Just spend an educational program when you ask.

      Quote: Mentat
      In the public domain, “professor”, there is already information on the T-14 that this is the first stealth tank in the world, in the design of which means are used that drastically reduce its visibility, including for Javelin, plus jamming, plus an EMP weapon, plus KAZ.

      I don’t discuss wunderwafles, but I can show you the tank with the engine off in the thermal imager if you ask.

      Quote: Mentat
      Radar, looking up? .. "Professor", today you have surpassed yourself ... This, perhaps, can be called a genuinely laid-back bacchanalia of technical absurdity.

      Blah, blah, blah ... Does the tank have telepathic systems? lol
      1. activator
        activator 29 June 2016 20: 10
        +2
        Quote: Professor
        Quote: Mentat
        In the public domain, “professor”, there is already information on the T-14 that this is the first stealth tank in the world, in the design of which means are used that drastically reduce its visibility, including for Javelin, plus jamming, plus an EMP weapon, plus KAZ.
        I don’t discuss wunderwafles, but I can show you the tank with the engine off in the thermal imager if you ask.

        I'm nimah laughing here it is how it turns out our stealth tanks, unlike their stealth aircraft, are quite even stealth and invisible laughing What about patchoum? because ours fellow But the professor now claims that our stealth tanks were not stealth at all, unlike their planes. But why? Because the tanks are not theirs. To change everything diametrically, it’s worth starting a discussion of f 35.
        1. Professor
          Professor 29 June 2016 20: 16
          -1
          Quote: activator

          I don’t know how it turns out that our stealth tanks, unlike their stealth airplanes, are even stealth and invisible and aren’t worth anything. And what about pachim? because ours But the professor now claims that our stealth tanks are not stealth at all, unlike their planes. And what about them? Because the tanks are not theirs. To change everything diametrically, it’s worth starting a discussion of f 35.

          Spelling Russian What do you want to show us? Your education?

          Okay, let's say this tank, which has no taxes at all, is painted with a child prodigy making it invisible, but where are the rollers and tracks to hide? wink
          http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/ELEC_Thermal_Image_Tank_lg.jpg
          1. activator
            activator 29 June 2016 20: 35
            +1
            Quote: Professor
            Spelling Russian What do you want to show us? Your education?

            Only the fact that each sandpiper praises its swamp. yes And language is just that good mood. laughing
  35. Yak28
    Yak28 29 June 2016 18: 59
    -2
    Armata - weight 48t
    T-90-weight 46t
    Merkava - weight 65t
    Abrams - weight 63t
    Does the difference in weight mean that our tanks have poor armor, unlike their foreign counterparts, and will foreign tanks be more tenacious on the battlefield?
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 29 June 2016 19: 06
      +3
      Quote: Yak28
      Armata - weight 48t
      T-90-weight 46t
      Merkava - weight 65t
      Abrams - weight 63t

      - And if you compare the sizes? I remember exactly that Abrams, well, much larger than even Almaty, not to mention the T-90
      - on Abrams and Merkava there is no automatic loader, that is, a crew of 4 people
      - this requires a more spacious (much more spacious) fighting compartment
      - much more - because it is necessary to move around the loader, as in the kitchen almost. And in the T-90, the commander and the gunner are sitting in their places, as if rooted to the spot. In Armata - generally in front of the armored capsule

      I mean, "size matters." I mean, it adds weight. So what about

      Quote: Yak28
      do our tanks have weak armoring unlike their foreign counterparts? And will foreign tanks be more tenacious on the battlefield?

      - I would not speak with confidence
    2. KaPToC
      KaPToC 29 June 2016 19: 29
      +1
      Quote: Yak28
      Does the difference in weight mean that our tanks have poor armor, unlike their foreign counterparts, and will foreign tanks be more tenacious on the battlefield?

      Our tanks have less reserved volume. Roughly speaking, the armor area of ​​our tanks is less. Despite the lower weight, Soviet tanks are better protected.
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 29 June 2016 20: 37
      +2
      Quote: Yak28
      Does the difference in weight mean that our tanks have poor armor, unlike their foreign counterparts, and will foreign tanks be more tenacious on the battlefield?

      The secret is simple ... it’s the line-up. Simply put, the same engine, for example, stands across our tanks, and not along ... Our tanks do not have bio toilets, like in Merkava, and a Negro-charging, like Abrashi ... In addition, in Almaty, as well as in the T-90 there is no tower of 20 tons, which requires an additional engine.
      Dimensions in no way can talk about armor and security, dear. By the way, the most warring tanks are ours, not American or German ...
  36. Chrysostom
    Chrysostom 29 June 2016 20: 34
    +1
    Israeli military experts believe that the Armata tank is much better than anyone.
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. Leeder
    Leeder 30 June 2016 09: 50
    0
    Quote: pafegosoff
    made a raider move, ravaged the enterprise, drove people out into the street

    Here is a very thin line. In business, it can be austerity or optimization measures, and quite justified. And such decisions can look very controversial.
    But outright theft and kickbacks should certainly be severely punished.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. Tram
    Tram 5 July 2016 14: 13
    -1
    Sorry for the invasion of the branch. I just accidentally saw a photo of this tank, I thought the target was something sort of self-propelled in the form of a tank for training shooting. It turned out to be a new tank and a difficult tank, but you can say the tank of the future. I am absolutely not a specialist in tanks and I apologize if I suddenly insulted the feelings of believers that I had confused the fighting vehicle with a plywood target. I sincerely repent. Moreover, after reading some statements I realized that talking about this tank is bad means to disclose secret information. But I don’t understand much in tanks and I hope I don’t reveal anything, I just want to clarify the lights on the wing flaps of the wingguards chtol attached? It’s just that the boys said that the wingers, such as on the armature, are up to the first puddle. Tear off nafik fsu this shnyagu with headlights. Onizh go dear.
  41. MrCollins
    MrCollins 30 July 2016 16: 23
    0
    In one program I watched that some of the secret information about the tank was sold abroad by some leader.