Military Review

J-10C: "Falcon" with "three pluses" and the headache of Western aviation corporations. At the gate of the 5 generation

68


As a radical upgrade of the Chinese lightweight multi-purpose fighter J-10A / B, the more promising tactical fighter-interceptor J-10C is developed in strict secrecy. He owes his appearance to the Israeli concern IAI, which in 1987 passed CAC to the company all the technological documentation for its experienced multi-purpose light fighter “Lavi”, which is a more advanced version of the F-16C. The well-established circumstances of the conflict between IAI and General Dynamics for a place in the arms market of the Middle East and the whole of West Asia helped the Celestial Empire to create a unique J-10C of its kind. Possessing a small radar signature and functionality of the 4 ++ generation fighter aircraft, this fighter today far surpasses its most advanced “ancestor” F-16C Block 60, it overtook another structural relative, the Japanese multi-purpose fighter F-2A / B. Only the Rafale and EF-2000 Typhoon fighters will be able to compete with it with the new Captor-E radar, but it is predicted that the price of the Chinese car will be approximately 30 — 40% lower, and therefore the superiority is already obvious. If CAC develops an export modification of J-10C, Lockheed Martin, Dassault and Eurofighter GmbH, it may lose multibillion-dollar contracts with its main Asian customers


Delving into the details of the development of sketches, layouts and digital models of promising Chinese supersonic YH-X strategic rocket carriers, unique ultra low-noise shock MAPL 096 Type with internal water jet propulsion and various versions of heavy tactical fighter 5 of the J-20 generation, we have less often turned to actively developing J-10A / B, a multi-purpose light aircraft fighter upgrades program of the Chinese Air Force, which, following the integration of new powerful airborne radars with AFAR into the MSA, are already beginning to acquire a fighter configuration next generation teley. All innovative solutions are embodied today in a fundamentally new version of the Swift Dragon - J-10C. The appearance of the airframe and the “stuffing” are so close to the 5 generation that Chinese bloggers have already rushed to compare its likely combat potential with the American F-22A “Raptor”, but whether such comparisons are justified by anything, we have to find out in our review.

To begin with, it’s worth remembering the pedigree of the most advanced serial Chinese LFI. The development of a single-engine fighter, which had been planned since 1984 to replace the obsolete and technically obsolete J-6, J-7 and Q-5, gained full speed in 1987, when the Israeli concern IAI (Israel Aerospace Industries) handed over all the technical documentation by the experienced tactical fighter "Lavi" corporation aviation Chengdu Aircraft Industry (Group) Corporation, CAC, which brought to its logical conclusion the Israeli program to finalize the redesigned version of the multi-purpose F-16A / C. In 1986, IAI had to curtail work on the Lavi project, since a new modernized glider and the installation of a more powerful power plant would leave the American Falcon far behind in comparison with the brainchild of an Israeli corporation: the competitiveness and prestige of General Dynamics technologies suffered , and from the States began serious pressure. IAI handed over documentation of the Celestial Empire in an atmosphere of complete secrecy, as there were fears of deteriorating relations with Washington. And already in 1993, CAC made the first purge model of the future J-10A, which very much resembled a Lavi glider, with the only difference being that the Chinese glider had no sweep at the trailing edge of the wing, and the PGO was moved farther from the center of mass aircraft (closer to the bow), there is also a large area of ​​the rear vertical stabilizer and the square shape of the air intake (the Lavi has an oval air intake, like the F-16A family). The front horizontal plumage contributes to better maneuverability at critical angles of attack, and also increases the angular speed of a turn in close air combat. Even the wing area and empty mass of the J-10A and Lavi are the same (33,05 square meters and 9900 kg, respectively). All parameters are very close.

Notice that the Americans were not afraid to fear entering the Young Lion arena (in Hebrew. Lavi), since the advanced fighter not only could seize the initiative from F-16C in terms of maneuverability, but also outpaced the American Falcon in combat range PTB, constituting 2130 km (in Israeli F-16I “Sufa” - 1500 km, and in F-16C - a little more than 1000 km). This could have a negative effect on the contracts concluded between General Dynamics (now Lockheed Martin) and the Ministries of Defense of the Arabian Peninsula, which would prefer a more long-range Israeli machine; And contracts with Hel Haavir on F-16A / B / C / D / E could be lost. And today they mean serving in the Israeli Air Force more than 300 of the above modifications of the American fighter, help in their service from the "Lockheed", and hence the direct dependence of Hel Haavir on the American defense industry. Complicating Israel’s position is also the signing and commencement of the contract for the purchase of 33's American low-profile X-NUMX F-generation F-5I fighters.


Before the curtailment of the Lavi tactical fighter program, the IAI's leadership made huge bets on a new multipurpose aircraft that could easily replace all the A-4 Skyhawk and Kfir C.2 / 7 in the Israeli Air Force. The projected "tactician" was supposed to perform the functions of a strike fighter, as well as a fighter for direct support of troops while retaining the ability to conduct air combat with a modern enemy. For this "Lavi" was equipped with a multifunctional pulse-Doppler airborne radar EL / M-2032 with SHAR. The range of her work on targets with an RCS of 3 m2 (a target of the "fighter" type) is 90 km, on a target of the "bridge" type - about 85 km, a surface ship with a displacement of about 10-15 thousand tons "EM / cruiser" - about 300 km ; modes of terrain mapping and detection of small-sized ground targets have been introduced, in terms of energy parameters this radar is not inferior to the American AN / APG-68 and in long-range air combat would make Lavi not a worse fighter than the F-16C, but a new radar with AFAR EL / The M-2052 (1500 APMs and a range of 250 km) could bring the Israeli product to the level of the best Western machines. During the existence of the program, 5 prototypes of an experimental fighter were built. With a very compact size, the combat load of the aircraft reached 7260 kg, and the installation of a more powerful Pratt & Whitney F-100-PW-229 engine would allow reaching a supersonic cruising speed of 1,3 M and a practical ceiling of about 20000 m. All prototypes received a very modern, by the standards of military aviation of the mid-80s, electronics: the ACE-4 onboard computer with a clock frequency of 600 kHz and a 128 KB storage device controlled 17 more microprocessors of other fighter subsystems, and communication and tactical information transmission were carried out thanks to the bus data transfer protocol MIL-STD-1553B. The data bus of this standard dates back to the 80s. could carry out network-centric linking of 31 subscribers, each of which had the opportunity to use one main channel "Channel A", backup channel "Channel B", or simultaneously 2 channels. The most important feature of the MIL-STD-1553B tactical information exchange bus interface is the ability to build a tactical network of a hierarchical type, but with the ability to change the channel controller, which can be each of the 31 subscribers, because each unit has both a transmitting and a receiving device. As with any local area network, MIL-STD-1553B subscribers have their own 5-bit digital addresses. Data transmission in 2 channels is protected by the Manchester-2 code, and the types of radio signals of these channels are represented by informational “SYNC D” (D, - DATA), command / response “SYNC C” (C, COMMAND). The information channel can work constantly, but the command-response channel only depending on the tactical situation, on the basis of which the channel controller and terminal devices are selected. This protocol has found application in the avionics of Apache attack helicopters, P-3C Orion anti-submarine patrol helicopters, F-15C modifications and other types of military equipment.


Like Lavi, the serial Chinese J-10A from its very first flight, 28 held on June 2002, belongs to the 4 + generation thanks to the established Pearl radar, which operates on both air and sea / land targets. With an average price of 25 million dollars, the Chinese LFI has the highest aircraft performance characteristics achieved with the installation of the Russian TRDDF AL-31F from NPO Saturn. Traction in 12500 kgf maintains thrust with normal take-off weight within 0,95 — 1,0, which raises maneuverability to the level of “Rafale” and “Typhoon”; a high angular speed of turning in roll and pitch is provided both on the “verticals” and on the “horizontal lines”. The maximum and afterburner midships are 1600 and 2575 kgf / sqm, respectively, which makes it possible to achieve supersonic cruising (around 1,15М) without suspensions, and also to pick up speed from 600 to 1200 km / h significantly faster than F / A-18E / F "Super Hornet".

The high aerodynamic quality coefficient of the airframe (10,3 units) is even higher than that of Rafal and F-15C / E / SE and is at the level of the MiG-29С / СМТ and MiG-35. Here it is a matter of the airframe of the airframe and the type of wing layout: the low-lying triangular wing forms almost 100% of the airframe of the airframe, where the slightly convex part of the airframe also has bearing qualities (the most accurate example of this design is the French multi-purpose fighters Mirage-2000C / -5 / -9 ”with unique“ agility ”in the BWB, which was confirmed in the battles of the Greek“ Mirage ”with the Turkish“ Falcons ”over the Aegean Sea). The effective scattering surface of J-10A is 2,8 sq. M., After using radio-absorbing materials in the design, this number can be reduced to 1 sq. M. m

The ventral tail aerodynamic ridges-stabilizers maintain a stable flight at high angles of attack. J-10B is a machine of a completely different “sort”; to the “four” you can safely add “two pluses”. The fighter received a new Chinese engine WS-10A (with a weight of about 14200 kg), but at least its resource is less than that of the “Saturn” AL-31F, which increased by 14% the thrust of the J-10A version described above. Radar AFAR allows you to engage in long-range air combat with such machines as the deck Super Hornets, the Japanese F-2A / B and the South Korean F-15K, to perform terrain mapping and detection of sea / land targets in the mode of the synthesized aperture, and also effectively intercept precision weapon. An air intake with variable geometry, called a vortex-forming “canine”, makes it possible to further reduce the ESR of the J-10B, but the most important changes occurred in the J-10C project, which is the main character of our review.


The photo shows the service of a prototype multi-purpose Chinese LFI J-10B. You can see the oval canvas of a promising radar with AFAR, which for the first time is mounted on a nationally developed tactical fighter of the Chinese Air Force. Despite the general similarity in design with the previous version of the J-10A and the Israeli multi-purpose fighter "Lavi", the J-10B is fundamentally different from the latter in almost all known parameters. This is the first Chinese fighter generation "4 ++", for which the corporation "Chengdu" decided to minimize the radar signature while maintaining LTH, which was achieved thanks to a new design of the adjustable air inlet type "eddyforming fang." The new WS-10A engine allowed this intermediate vehicle to catch up with well-known Western and even Russian fighters in thrust-bearing, “steady” maneuverability and rate of climb. It was decided to start the installation of optical-location sighting systems for maintaining the BVB and covert access to the enemy with the radar off


Back in January, 2013, an interesting publication on the development of generations of the J-10A / B line appeared on baomoi.com. It contained 4 computer images of a promising multipurpose fighter with a predatory "shark" appearance, not similar to any of the existing generation of fighters "4 ++" and "5". On the images it is clear that the airframe of the new machine should be assembled according to the “duck” scheme with the type of wing arrangement “sredneplan”, you can see the usual all-round CGT, one vertical stabilizer and two ventral ridges. The influx at the root of the wing is characterized by a smooth aerodynamic transition, directly in front of which are the rear edges of the wall plane. The forward horizontal tail itself is installed very close to the wing to create a single glider carrier plane without loss and disruption. The radar nose radome radome is maximally narrowed, which indicates a possible AFAR installation with a certain angle of inclination of the blade relative to the longitudinal axis of the fighter (from 25 to 35 deg) for maximum reduction of the radar signature. If we proceed from the assumption that J-10C was created to perform tasks to achieve air superiority, then the AFAR is tilted with a sheet in order to reduce the visibility of the enemy fighters and airplanes for airborne radar systems.

Here the question may arise: what is the sector of the review for this onboard radar in the upper hemisphere (for the enemy fighters and interceptors of the enemy already approaching)? Indeed, near targets with such a position of the radar mirror may not be detected. Here, a huge role is played by the optical-electronic sighting system of the national Chinese development, similar to our OLS-35, which is installed in front of the cockpit lamp. Chinese experts claim that the detection range of this OLCK is 40 km to the front hemisphere and 100 km to the rear hemisphere (by infrared luminescence of the engines). Also, a TV channel of the visible range with a high-resolution matrix capable of detecting and capturing target silhouette. In this case, the idea of ​​inclining the AFAR web is very reasonable. At one time, it was successfully embodied in the multi-mode airborne radar with AN / APQ-164 PFAR American strategic missile B-1B “Lancer” bomber.


The passive phased array antenna (PESA) on-board radar AN / APQ-164 of the strategic B-1B missile is tilted 30 degrees down relative to the aircraft roll: this gives you the opportunity to get a clearer radar image of the terrain and objects on it while using the synthesized aperture mode, and also to reduce the ESR when irradiated from the air. Vertically oriented elliptical mirror of PPAR well reduces the radar visibility of the vehicle when ground radar stations are exposed to air defense weapons located in the corners +/- 50 - 80 degrees relative to the course direction B-1B. AN / APQ-164, created on the basis of the same AN ​​/ APG-68, is represented by 1526 transmitting and receiving modules operating in the X-band centimeter waves; the mirror can mechanically turn around the angles of +/- 90 degrees, which creates a viewing sector in azimuth 240 degrees: mapping and detection of ground targets can be done even in the rear hemisphere


Now about the "shark" appearance J-10C. Here, with the same goal of reducing radar visibility, the developers at CAC preferred to return from a large rectangular air intake to a smaller oval. But its edges and the front part of the air channel are not projected on 20 cm from the bottom of the pilot's cabin, as is done in J-10A, but mated with it, which ultimately reduces the midsection of the fighter and X-ray visibility. Adjustable air intake allows you to maximize the power of the WS-10A "Taihang" engine and its modifications at both subsonic and high supersonic speeds. To reduce the visibility, the J-10C has a “smoothed” triangular cross section of the nose of the fuselage, a large percentage of composite materials among the non-force elements of the airframe, as well as the absence of SPO, EW and other sensors that project from the airframe, including pressure sensors. Everything is hidden in the miniature holes on the fighter's glider. Mass-overall dimensions only slightly exceed the performance of “Mirage-2000-9”, which, with the new TRDDF, contributes to highly efficient close combat with energy maneuvering, as well as high rate of climb (up to 290 km / h). On the background of the fuselage stands only a non-removable bar of the air refueling system.

The multi-purpose fighter J-10C can be freely attributed to the generation of "4 ++", and after installing the conformal weapons bays, you can add another "+", since the machine is partially already in the 5 generation. This is indicated by the very compact underwing pylons of the rocket-bomb armament suspension. But can J-10C effectively withstand modern Western fighters of the transitional and 5-th generations?

J-10C IN THE DISTANCE AND NEAR AIRBORTS AGAINST PERSPECTIVE AVIATION COMPLEXES

Chinese bloggers admire that the air confrontation between J-10C and F-22A could be 1: 3 in favor of the American fighter (for J-10A, this ratio was negligible 1: 50). In the same turn, no weighty reasons are given, which makes us consider the essence of the issue in more detail. Considering the inclined AFAR sheet and a small cross-sectional area of ​​the nose fairing, the promising Chinese radar will be able to detect a target with an 0,07 EPR at a distance of no more than 100 km, Raptor will detect a J-10C (EPR around 1 and 2) at an XNUM removal —200 km, and from a distance of 220 — 150 km can already release a pair of AIM-180D AMRAAM on it (even in the REP conditions). If the launch will be made in the “LPI” mode or by target designation, then J-120C will be able to detect the attack only when ARGSN AIM-10D is captured. There will be no time left for scanning the airspace of the Chinese pilots: they will be forced to perform an anti-missile maneuver. During this time, the range between the J-120C and the F-10A can either decrease to less than 22 km, or remain the same if the American pilot chooses to tackle the enemy, relying on the more powerful AN / APG-100 radar, and keep his car more than 77 km from J-120C. If the fighters go closer, the situation will begin to change dramatically towards the J-10C: at a distance of 10 — 90 km, the Chinese pilot will be able to use the PL-100C or PL-12 long-range air combat missiles. The first is equipped with ARGSN and has a range of 21 km, the maximum overload in 70 units. allows you to intercept any targets with overload up to 38 units. A very important fact is the installation of ARGSN based on the Russian 12B9 installed on the Р-1348 (РВВ-АЕ) missiles, its effectiveness and noise immunity remains at a very high level. The second is a long-range air-to-air missile with ARGSN. PL-77 is the Chinese version of the MBDA “Meteor” rocket, and therefore is equipped with a ramjet engine, which accelerates it to speed in 21М at maximum range in 4,5 km.

At medium ranges, there is about a 50% chance that the Raptor will be destroyed by the above missiles, but in the "dump for dogs" fortune again goes to the F-22A. The Raptor is equipped with 2 Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 engines with a total thrust of 31752 kgf and a pitch vector of thrust. This provides a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1,2, limiting angles of attack up to 60 degrees, as well as the ability to perform some super-maneuverability elements, one of which is the Pugacheva Cobra. In close combat, this makes it easy to "twist" even the hyper-fast "Rafale", which was confirmed by the video of the training battle, posted on "Youtube". The J-10C, not equipped with an OVT, is no exception. The only thing that the Chinese pilot can do is use a helmet-mounted target designation system synchronized with the OPLK, as well as with the IKGSN of the PL-9C short-range missile. This missile has a great chance of intercepting the Raptor in the BVB, since its G-limit can reach 40 units. But the Raptors will soon receive a helmet-mounted target designation system called HMD (“Helmet-mounted display”), which will issue target designation to the IKGSN of an equally advanced AIM-9X missile, so the superiority of the F-22A is obvious. So the Chinese predicted score is almost true, but as the comparison shows, it could change even more in favor of the Raptor, depending on the auxiliary radar aerial reconnaissance that the US Air Force will have. Another thing is the US Navy carrier-based aircraft, other 4th generation fighters, as well as the F-35A / B / C. Here J-10C will be able to show all its best qualities.

As is known, the deck F / A-18E / F, which is the main air component of the US AUG, is considered by the PLA command as the main tactical threat of a non-nuclear character coming from the United States. Against the Tomahawks, the PRC's air defense will easily find the answer in the form of dozens of C-XNUMPPMU-300, C-1 and HQ-400 divisions, but against manned X-NUMX-9 fighter jets, similar resistance is necessary because these multi-purpose machines , and only one squadron can be divided into 400 units performing completely different functions (from closing the airspace over the theater to suppressing enemy air defenses or destroying the airfield runways). J-500A to counter US F / A-3E / F over the South China and East China Seas are no longer completely adapted.

Their on-board radar "Pearls" are equipped with a slit antenna array (SCHAR), which detects the "Super Hornet" at a distance of about 60 km (EPR = 1,5 m2), but the American fighter will detect the J-10A at ​​a distance of 170 km and can immediately fire AIM-missiles 120D. Now suppose that J-10A was able to approach F / A-18E / F on 55 km; here the capacity of the radar complexes of opposing aircraft begins to play a role. “Pearls” have 20 channels for “linking trails of targets” and the entire 4 channel for “capturing” (shooting), for AN / APG-79 28 and 8 channels, respectively, plus several times better noise immunity. How not to twist here, the Chinese pilots find themselves in a very dangerous situation, which only the new J-10C can really correct.

These aircraft will be able to specifically change the balance of power in the region. The range in 1000 km will ensure that any air operations are performed within the first frontier of the “three chains” concept developed by the PLA. This is where air defense is required from the deck fighters of the United States, as well as the air forces of Taiwan and Japan. J-10C can be opposed by the future deck F-35B / C: the speed, acceleration and maneuverability of the new “Swift Dragons” are much higher than those of any American deckers standing on board: safety at the nearest approaches will be guaranteed.

Work on a promising project J-10C is not accidental. The Chinese Air Force needs to fill the low-tech 250 J-10A niche with modernized fighters and 5 generation fighters J-31 as soon as possible, and their number should exceed 250 aircraft, because all the “Drying” and their Chinese counterparts J- 11B and J-15S will perform more focused functions.


Dense location to the surface of the airframe suspended fuel tanks, containers with opto-electronic sighting complexes, as well as rocket armament achieved a small length of the pylons, thereby reducing the radar visibility of the aircraft at different angles of exposure of the enemy radar


In particular, after replacing the H001VEP radar with more advanced stations with PFAR and AFAR, “Drying” together with J-20 will most likely be formed into specialized mixed aviation regiments, whose tasks will include air defense from American F-22A and even more subtle promising Japanese ATD-X "Shinshin" fighters. So, to detect the latest Chinese Air Force may require the most powerful radar type "Irbis-E", the reason for which was the information on the EPR of the new Japanese aircraft, which is about 0,04 m2; for J-10C, these planes will be virtually inaccessible. J-20 will provide anti-ship defense against US AUG on medium approaches, as well as scoop J-STARS and E-3C reconnaissance aircraft of the new generation P-8A from the future air defense system of China, as well as long-range anti-aircraft of the new generation P-2000A. Poseidon. Due to the large radius of action with PTB (about 11 km without refueling), J-15B, J-20S, J-35 and Su-20S be involved in escorting heavy military transport aircraft Y-2000, developed stealth strategic bomber YH-X, DRLOI aircraft KJ-8, as well as new anti-submarine patrol aircraft Y-6GXXNUMX.

In the face of increasing US pressure on the PRC, as well as attempts to dislodge the geo-strategic basis of influence in the APR by militarizing the region, Beijing is forced to develop increasingly sophisticated strategies to counter these threats, the most important link in which will be the correct target distribution available in the Air Force "Sushchek" and promising J-10C.
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  1. Neputin
    Neputin 29 June 2016 06: 42
    +7
    Whatever they say, the Chinese are overclocked and "spar" to the fullest. Their pace of creating military equipment is crazy. I won't talk about quality - I don't know. But I clearly understand one thing. Three not very high quality Chinese fighters (frigate, tank, etc.) may well compete with one of our SU-50 ("Gorshkov" or T 14). Alarming .....
    1. DanSabaka
      DanSabaka 29 June 2016 08: 55
      +9
      it’s hard to say what kind of competitor this LFI will be in battle, but in the market our MiG-35 will face serious competition ....
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 29 June 2016 15: 46
        0
        The Chinese model, by design, is very close to the stealth version of the F-15. We have neither the MiG-35, nor the Su-35 have received such improvements in terms of housing. Although the filling is approximately similar.
        1. GSH-18
          GSH-18 25 September 2016 21: 47
          0
          Quote: Zaurbek
          The Chinese model, by design, is very close to the stealth version of the F-15. We have neither the MiG-35, nor the Su-35 have received such improvements in terms of housing. Although the filling is approximately similar.

          We have a slightly different concept. Along with the reduction of EPR, our latest Dryers have installed powerful electronic warfare systems, which makes them very difficult targets both for guidance radars and for any anti-aircraft missiles.
    2. Anton Valerevich
      Anton Valerevich 29 June 2016 12: 52
      +8
      Why do you think the Chinese are going to attack Russia? With such a population density as in China, the use of nuclear weapons on their territory can put an end to the thousand-year-old Chinese civilization in 20 minutes. I think the Chinese are not fools, and they will not be substituted for the sake of conquering "living space", they would rather seize defenseless Australia than get involved in a suicidal war with Russia.
      1. KaPToC
        KaPToC 29 June 2016 15: 41
        +4
        Quote: Anton Valeryevich
        With such a population density as in China

        With such a population density, two-thirds of China is unpopulated.
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 29 June 2016 21: 24
        +4
        Quote: Anton Valeryevich
        e, the use of nuclear weapons on their territory can put an end to millennial Chinese civilization in 20 minutes


        Fear God, on which to hit the TNW in China, it is enough to destroy the Three Gorges. The greatest hydropower project in history.

        The Pentagon advises Taiwan to blow up the Three Gorges in the event of a war, after which the Chinese have even more "respect" for the United States.

        by the way, China is a nuclear power
  2. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 29 June 2016 06: 50
    +12
    Well, everything is well written. Except one. Do you have engines (except for Saturn's)? The Chinese have been trumpeting about their new engines for many, many years, but they are buying and buying Al-31. (my acquaintances work there, on "Saturn" laughing ) The second question is - who checked the performance characteristics of their new radars? Again, shall we take our word for it? And the ability of the Chinese to draw "paper tigers" has existed for a couple of thousand years longer than the same art of disinformation, say, of the Anglo-Saxons.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 29 June 2016 13: 17
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The Chinese have been trumpeting about their new engines for many, many years, but they are buying and buying Al-31. (my acquaintances work there, on the "Saturn")

      They bought and will buy, but this is not connected with their new planes.
      They have a huge fleet of ten, Su-27, and their clones, they fly a lot and there are a lot of engines for replacement, respectively, and WS-10A and AL-31 are not interchangeable.
    2. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 30 June 2016 00: 20
      +2
      Hey. Why do you think so badly about this country. Since 2008, it is a completely different country. More science is being allocated to science. They do not conduct experiments with education .. Science will give a return. It simply does not happen immediately, but success is visible. At RBC all ears buzzed China stops the steel industry saying 500 unemployed. Yes, they stop plants unprofitable, but right there they build the latest ones. And they prefer to keep silent about this. The slogan FRAMES DECIDE ALL reminds nothing. And in China it is very actual.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 30 June 2016 18: 34
        +3
        Quote: igor.borov775
        At RBC all ears buzzed China stops the steel industry


        I remembered Professor Preobrazhensky: "do not read Soviet newspapers at night ...". RBC "Fifth Column" in the media.
  3. Operator
    Operator 29 June 2016 08: 26
    0
    The article contains a misinformation about the range of AIM-120D for maneuvering targets like fighters - not 180, but only 90 km.

    In addition, a single-engine J-10C with a take-off weight of 20 tons in soles is not suitable for a twin-engine Su-35С with a take-off weight of 34 tons.
    1. Verdun
      Verdun 29 June 2016 12: 17
      +3
      Quote: Operator
      In addition, a single-engine J-10C with a take-off weight of 20 tons in soles is not suitable for a twin-engine Su-35С with a take-off weight of 34 tons.

      What manner did many commenting go for comparing light front-line fighters with heavy fighters to gain air superiority? How much for the price of one Dryer can I buy Chinese cars?
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 June 2016 17: 12
        +2
        Compare the light front-line fighter J-10C with heavy fighters gaining dominance in the air type F-22 (38 tons) began the author of this article, not commentators.

        How much and for how much you can buy, figure it out for yourself:
        Su-35С - 2 billion rubles (30 million $)
        J-10C - 41 million $
        1. Verdun
          Verdun 29 June 2016 21: 30
          +2
          Quote: Operator
          How much and for how much you can buy, figure it out for yourself:
          Su-35С - 2 billion rubles (30 million $)
          J-10C - 41 million $

          You do not confuse cost with cost price. 41 million is the export price of the Chinese car, and for relatives - 28 million. The market price of the Indian-made Su-30 MKI is 83 million, and Irkut supplies 30 million to the Su-50cm. If you really know where to get new Drying at such a free price, you can safely raise interest and earn money - there will be a line.
          1. marshes
            marshes 29 June 2016 22: 27
            +1
            Quote: Verdun
            and Irkut delivers 30 million each to the Su-50cm.

            What currency is this?
            Here is an example, ordering 4 SU-30 SM for Kazakhstan, at domestic prices, about 5 lard in rubles. It is not known at what rate it was, but the order was placed in November 2014. So I suspect 26-28 green llamas apiece. simple as for the Russian Aerospace Forces.
            Stuffing, this is a different story. And so the Israelis can help in this matter, hanging containers can be sold, like on our SU-27.
          2. Operator
            Operator 29 June 2016 22: 28
            +3
            $ 30 million is the cost (price) of the Su-35S for the RF Aerospace Forces. The prime cost of the Su-35S at PJSC "Irkut" is even less.

            Su-30СМ for the Russian Aerospace Forces cost 50 million dollars. in 2012 year, now costs 25 million dollars. - the exchange rate has doubled.
            1. Verdun
              Verdun 29 June 2016 22: 32
              -3
              Quote: Operator

              Su-30СМ for the Russian Aerospace Forces cost 50 million dollars. in 2012 year, now costs 25 million dollars. - the exchange rate has doubled.

              Yeah, and if you still do not pay workers, the cost will decrease even more ...
              1. Operator
                Operator 29 June 2016 22: 52
                0
                Do not distort - we are talking about exchange rates, and not about settlements within Russia.

                Even if the salary is not paid, then it is still charged to the cost of production in order to reduce the tax base.
                1. Verdun
                  Verdun 30 June 2016 10: 30
                  0
                  Quote: Operator
                  Do not distort - we are talking about exchange rates, and not about settlements within Russia.

                  You distort in this case. Russia, at least for the moment, is a member of the WTO. And this means that the cost of materials and energy for the manufacture of the aircraft is the market. Exactly the same as for any other member of the WTO. And the only thing that can affect the decrease or increase in the cost of the final product, in this case, the airplane, is the level of remuneration for the people who produce it. And if with a fall in the rate the plane began to cost less, then the only thing that could decrease was the actual salary of the workers. (In accordance with the exchange rate). And for those who pay wages in order to reduce taxation, but at the same time do not give it out, a place in prison.
                  1. Vlad.by
                    Vlad.by 16 November 2016 18: 41
                    0
                    Oh, about the same cost of materials for all WTO members, you are more careful. And then "... they will start to carry their nose on the asphalt again ..."
                    :-)
                2. Simple
                  Simple 7 July 2016 21: 50
                  0
                  Quote: Operator
                  Even if the salary is not paid, then it is still charged to the cost of production in order to reduce the tax base.

                  belay
                  1. In trade, the RFP is NOT included in the cost of goods - the RFP is credited to the 44 account (distribution costs) - these costs are indirect and are written off entirely at the end of the month.
                  2. In production, yes ... The cost of production DIRECTLY includes the cost of materials spent on its production, the salary of the personnel engaged in this production (well, the contributions accrued on this salary), the depreciation of equipment engaged in production, etc. - here this is all included in the cost of production.
                  Production costs are recorded on the 20 account and then somehow relate to the cost of the finished product - the 43 account.

                  The trouble is only.
                  ZP-NDFL 13% + social under 30% (28,5%)
                  Profit tax in Russia 20%
                  So consider that it is more profitable "not to be issued and accrued" and pay taxes at 43%
                  or not "accrue and not pay" and pay 20% taxes.
  4. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 29 June 2016 08: 37
    0
    We omit minor inaccuracies and put the author +. The question is not who is better, the article is interesting in its analysis.
  5. EvilLion
    EvilLion 29 June 2016 08: 37
    +1
    And you thought it was only "unparalleled in the world" in our country. Of course, we'll put the engine a few percent more powerful and get an increase of XNUMX times. It’s not funny yourself? And there is no need to talk about the battles over the Aegean Sea, because no one except the participants in the clashes saw them.

    Mirage-2000 has a record angular roll rate (a key parameter of the speed of entering a turn), single engine affects, the spaced masses of engines make the Su-27, F-15, etc. not very barrel-shaped, well, tailless, there are no losses on the tail, for this reason, there are experienced tailless versions of many well-known aircraft, but the pitch control is not very good, for this reason tailless is a rarity. Apparently, due to the uncriticality of this parameter for civilian vehicles, the Tu-144 and Concorde were tailless. But where does the PGO? Yes, and the PGO on stealth is not very popular, because this is contrary to the ideology, although on the PAK FA there is a kind of PGO, completely conjugated with the wing, a deflected wing tip.

    Yes, and China, it is, of course, great and powerful, but something is not visible in the stamping of new aircraft by the thousands, the reason is quite banal, in the north it has Russia with nuclear charges and zero desire to fight along the perimeter of the desert, or the state is much weaker, and as for the USA, it occupies the Pacific Ocean half the planet. And if there are no series of hundreds and thousands, then where does the production experience come from?
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 29 June 2016 09: 16
      0
      Immediately obvious aviation specialist wrote smile
    2. Operator
      Operator 29 June 2016 11: 40
      -1
      Why make barrels in aerial combat? laughing

      Mirage-2000 completely merges the 27-th Drying:
      - thrust-to-weight ratio, kgf / kg 0,55 / 0,75
      - wing load, kg / sq.m 414 / 532
      - sweep of the wing, hail. 58 / 42
      1. Verdun
        Verdun 29 June 2016 12: 21
        -1
        Quote: Operator
        Why make barrels in aerial combat?

        If you want to live, you’re not getting so bored.
        Mirage-2000 completely merges the 27-th Drying:
        Do not forget that the French had a Super-Mirage-4000, which was not adopted due to its high cost.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 29 June 2016 13: 25
          0
          Due to the fact that his drying eats just like everything else ...
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 29 June 2016 13: 54
            +1
            Quote: Simpsonian
            Due to the fact that his drying eats just like everything else ...

            The Chinese have a lot more Sushki park than Russia. Your cap.
            And, by the way, the Chinese claim that the top ten (J-10A) beats in the middle. Considering the experience of the USSR / Russia Air Force where the Mig-29 was the most maneuverable fighter, it’s quite possible that they don’t lie ...
            1. Simpsonian
              Simpsonian 29 June 2016 14: 10
              0
              The Su-27, which is more maneuverable than the MiG-29, only hits the Su-30 and Su-35.
            2. Vlad.by
              Vlad.by 16 November 2016 18: 45
              0
              The Chinese say? And you say ...
        3. Operator
          Operator 29 June 2016 20: 29
          0
          Barrels, cobras and other "raskoryachka" leads to a reduction in life in air combat.

          The 4000 Super Mirage was not taken into service not because of its high cost, but because of the failed price / performance ratio.
          1. Verdun
            Verdun 29 June 2016 22: 52
            -1
            Quote: Operator
            Barrels, cobras and other "raskoryachka" leads to a reduction in life in air combat.

            Especially if you do not know how to pilot. Judging by your words, the main way to fight the Asami is using horizontal pancakes.
            1. Operator
              Operator 29 June 2016 23: 26
              +1
              The main method of close air combat is a combination of turns, verticals (up and down) and "pancakes" (exclusive of aircraft with UHT in the horizontal plane).

              By the way, pulling the F-15 into the vertical in training battles with the Su-27 at the Langley airbase in 1992 led to a guaranteed drop in F-15 speed to 650 km / h and less, after which Sushi easily entered the tail of the Needles and each won dry air duel.
      2. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 29 June 2016 13: 24
        -3
        Oban, the cons of the "experts" went laughing
      3. Arikkhab
        Arikkhab 29 June 2016 17: 25
        0
        and how does the sweep of the wing affect the "full drain"?
        1. Operator
          Operator 29 June 2016 17: 35
          +1
          The bearing capacity of a wing of the same area decreases in proportion to the sweep.
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 29 June 2016 13: 09
      +5
      Quote: EvilLion
      Yes and not very popular PGO on stealth,

      I would say, not compatible at all smile But after all, the Chinese do not position the top ten as stealth.
      Quote: EvilLion
      And if there are no series of hundreds and thousands, then where does the production experience come from?

      But here is a moot point. Indeed, the rate of production in Chengdu is about 40 "dozen" per year.
      Not too much on the one hand, but on the other, the Chinese are working rhythmically, and at least about 400 J-10 riveted. In total, along with Sushki, they have about 800 fighters of only 4 generations. And this (not even J-7, J -8) 2,5 times more than in our thin air force.
      So consider whether they have production experience or not ...
    4. NIKNN
      NIKNN 29 June 2016 13: 58
      +9
      Quote: EvilLion

      Mirage-2000 has a record angular roll speed (a key parameter of the speed of entry into the U-turn), it has a single engine effect, the separated masses of the engines make the Su-27

      You will excuse me, of course, but you can talk about maneuverability only knowing about the subject a little deeper.
      The angular velocity of the roll is one thing, but the horizontal maneuverability is somewhat different. I will not talk about the established turn (although the principle of implementation does not change) since In the WB maneuverability, most likely it will be necessary to apply mainly forced turn. Turning to the technique of execution, increasing the roll, it is necessary to choose the RUS for yourself, thus creating the overload necessary for the performance, which means that to achieve maximum angular velocities, the most important parameters are the thrust-weight ratio and controllability along the angle of attack and much less angular speed of roll creation.
      Something like this. Taking into account the above, we conclude that it is not desirable for the "mirage" to get involved in a BMVB with the Su-27 and the like.
      Sincerely.
      1. Vlad.by
        Vlad.by 16 November 2016 18: 48
        0
        I would add - very undesirable!
  6. grifin
    grifin 29 June 2016 13: 22
    +6
    How could "lavi" be a fine-tuning of the f-16? Just look at the photo to see that these are completely different planes. excluding engine
    1. Kaiten
      Kaiten 30 June 2016 21: 20
      +1
      Quote: grifin
      How could "lavi" be a fine-tuning of the f-16? Just look at the photo to see that these are completely different planes. excluding engine

      100%
  7. Odysseus
    Odysseus 29 June 2016 13: 27
    +5
    A respected author runs a little ahead. The J-10B has just begun to arrive in combat units, and he is already painting the merits of the non-existent J-10C. And this is with Chinese secrecy ...
    One can definitely say about him that nothing can be said.
    As for the dozens in general, the first modification had the only problem with a weak locator, and in terms of export, the lack of native engines.
    If in the second modification they solve the problems with the reliability of the WS-10A, then the aircraft will turn out to be serious. But still, they can’t supply it massively for export. The production rate of engines barely covers the needs of their own air forces.
  8. Mentat
    Mentat 29 June 2016 13: 30
    +3
    You can see the oval canvas of the prospective radar with AFAR, which is first installed on the tactical China's national air force fighter. Despite the general similarity in design with the previous version of the J-10A and the Israeli multi-role fighter "Lavi", the J-10B is fundamentally different from the latter in almost all known parameters. This is the first 4 ++ generation Chinese fighter aircraft for which Chengdu Corporation has decided to reduce its radar signature as much as possible while preserving the LTX, which is achieved thanks to the new design of the swirling fang type adjustable air intake. The new WS-10A engine allowed this intermediate engine to catch up with well-known maneuverability and rate of climb, well-known Western and even Russian fighters.

    Is the author kidding me? The glider is a copy of the Lavi, which the leadership of the Israeli corporation drove to China, ready to strangle the shekel, apparently. This glider was drafted to the condition of the real apparatus with the help of Russian consultants.

    The Shenyang WS-10 engine is a copy of CFM International CFM56, which the Chinese have been picking for 20 years trying to figure out how it works. In 2010, the copy worked for 30 hours, then no data. The Chinese have made some improvements, it is not known, they themselves do not report the characteristics of this engine in terms of reliability.

    What kind of radar is there, it does not say at all, representatives of China only claim that it is AFAR.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 June 2016 09: 19
      +3
      "The glider is a copy of Lavi, which was driven to China by the leadership of an Israeli corporation, ready to hang on for a shekel," ///

      Who chokes for the ruble, and who - for the shekel fellow .
      The Lavi documentation was for China a gift from heaven. They would pay three times as much.
      Then the 4th generation was, as the fifth now is a curiosity.
      Israel, frankly, did not assume that China would master the production of machinery. At that time, science fiction did not even think about the giant (and high-speed) technological leap in China.
      1. Kaiten
        Kaiten 30 June 2016 21: 23
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        "The glider is a copy of Lavi, which was driven to China by the leadership of an Israeli corporation, ready to hang on for a shekel," ///

        We would still not be releasing this aircraft in the near future. And time goes by, the plane becomes obsolete. Better to sell it. than he just becomes obsolete morally.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 June 2016 09: 19
      0
      "The glider is a copy of Lavi, which was driven to China by the leadership of an Israeli corporation, ready to hang on for a shekel," ///

      Who chokes for the ruble, and who - for the shekel fellow .
      The Lavi documentation was for China a gift from heaven. They would pay three times as much.
      Then the 4th generation was, as the fifth now is a curiosity.
      Israel, frankly, did not assume that China would master the production of machinery. At that time, science fiction did not even think about the giant (and high-speed) technological leap in China.
  9. grifin
    grifin 29 June 2016 13: 46
    +4
    Something the author fooled

    the Americans were not in vain afraid of entering the “Young Lion” arena (in Hebrew “Lavi”)
    "Young lion" is translated "kfir". This is the name of the fighter in service with the IDF

    the start of the contract for the purchase of 33 American stealth 5th generation fighter F-15I.
    Apparently mean f-35
    1. Arikkhab
      Arikkhab 29 June 2016 17: 22
      +2
      kfir is a lion cub, lavi is a young lion
  10. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 29 June 2016 14: 22
    +3
    This could not have a good effect on the contracts concluded between General Dynamics (now Lockheed Martin) and the ministries of defense of the Arabian Peninsula, which would prefer a longer-range Israeli car; and contracts with Hel Haavir on F-16A / B / C / D / E could be lost.

    Seriously? Arabs would buy an Israeli fighter, and Israel would sell them? Author, in which of the parallel worlds do you live? laughing
  11. Arikkhab
    Arikkhab 29 June 2016 17: 30
    +1
    the problem is that one way or another the Chinese will "finish" the plane. you get a pretty good (though not perfect) inexpensive fighter. Russia has nothing to oppose at the moment - single-engine light fighters are not only not being built, but also (officially) not being designed. although it is not clear why, for the purposes of the same air defense, over the land part of the country, only two-engine fighters should be kept (which are more expensive in all respects). well, export suffers
    1. Operator
      Operator 29 June 2016 17: 46
      +1
      As I understand it, for third-world countries, the competition for the light fighter J-10C (41 million $) in the near future will be a single-seat modification Yak-130 (15 million $).

      For Russia itself, China, India and the oil-producing countries of the Persian Gulf and North Africa, the multifunctional Su-35С fighter is preferred.
      1. marshes
        marshes 29 June 2016 18: 14
        +1
        Quote: Operator
        As I understand it, for third-world countries, the competition for the light fighter J-10C (41 million $) in the near future will be a single-seat modification Yak-130 (15 million $).

        You brought the cost of the Su-35 at 30 lamas of greenery from above, keep in mind that you get for yourself at this price and allies in the CSTO. The real price is much more, plus "minced meat".
        then you compare heavy to light.
        If the MIG-35 is not mass-produced in the near future, then preference will be given to the "Chinese".
        so also the Yak-130-he has a Chinese competitor, besides the same type and supersonic. Hongdu L-15
        1. Operator
          Operator 29 June 2016 20: 23
          +1
          The price of Su-35С in 30 mln. - this is precisely its real value. Any high price contains a bonus. This is the effect of the cheap ruble.

          Moreover, the market from the other end forms the export price for the 1,7 times lighter Chinese fighter J-10C (41 million dollars). Roughly speaking, this allows us to raise the price of Su-35С to approximately 70 million dollars. (upper bound).

          And the Yak-130 with its export price of 15 million dollars. and over-maneuverability in general tears to shreds of their classmates, both cheaper as Hongdu L-15 (10 million dollars) and more expensive as Aermacchi M-346 (30 million dollars). Given that in the close air combat the Yak-130 has no competitors among light fighters, it can well be considered as a functional analogue of the J-10C.
          1. marshes
            marshes 29 June 2016 22: 41
            0
            Quote: Operator
            The price of Su-35С in 30 mln. - this is precisely its real value. Any high price contains a bonus. This is the effect of the cheap ruble.

            The Chinese devalued the same yuan, they also excellently credit the purchase of their goods.
            Quote: Operator
            Moreover, the market from the other end forms the export price for the 1,7 times lighter Chinese fighter J-10C (41 million dollars). Roughly speaking, this allows us to raise the price of Su-35С to approximately 70 million dollars. (upper bound).

            29 ours is soon over and where to buy LFI, Mig-35 is not there yet, China is nearby ... Although in the fat years they thought about Grippenov. So we still have MIG-23/27,
            Quote: Operator
            . Given that in the close air combat the Yak-130 has no competitors among the light

            And that he had an afterburner camera, or AFAR? That would have fought with the fighters. According to rumors, the Chinese may rumble with the F-16.
            Now at 130 they are trying to put at least an optical station and a laser rangefinder, maybe a more barabier bomber, of a light class, will work. We will look at the price, maybe all kinds of war machines or toucans will be cheaper.
            1. Operator
              Operator 29 June 2016 23: 16
              0
              The Chinese, with all their devaluations, are still in flight - to sharply reduce the value of the yuan, as the Central Bank of the Russian Federation lowered the ruble, they are not able to (are weak in the knees).

              Aircraft manufacturers need cash, not credit agreement signatures.

              For Kazakhstan, the Yak-130 is an ideal option: cheap (15 million dollars), super-maneuverable, all-metal (maintainable), takes on board the same aviation ammunition as the Su-35S (up to "Caliber-A"), is equipped with modern digital avionics.
              At the request of the customer, AI-222-25 engines can be equipped with an afterburner and a nozzle with a controlled thrust vector: J-10C and Aermacchi M-346 (purchased by Israel) smoke bamboo.

              And if you need a radar with AFAR or OLS, then they can always be ordered in the same Israel. The only negative point - as of 2016, there is no single-seat combat version of the Yak-130, but there will be an order, there will be a version.

              The thrust-to-weight ratio, aerodynamic design, wing area and sweep angle give the Yak an advantage in close combat over all light fighters from 10 to 20 tons in weight. And for medium / long-range combat and interception of supersonic targets, there are RVV-SD and RVV-BD air-to-air missiles (the latter has no analogues).
              1. marshes
                marshes 29 June 2016 23: 44
                0
                Quote: Operator
                For Kazakhstan, the Yak-130 is an ideal option:

                But still, we have great interest in land-based aircraft. The exhibition in Kazakhstan showed that the Yak-130 will not be purchased in the near future, but the Belorussians were lucky, our Su-25s will undergo repairs and modernization from them.
                Quote: Operator
                Su-35С

                And the Su-30 SM, up to 2020 in the amount of 36 pieces, will be delivered to us.
                Quote: Operator
                - J-10C

                It should be compared with the MIG-35 and 130 with the Hongdu L-15.
                Quote: Operator
                And if you need a radar with AFAR or OLS, then they can always be ordered in the same Israel

                We have been ordering them for a long time, though on the Su-27.
                Quote: Operator
                The thrust-to-weight ratio, aerodynamic design, wing area and sweep angle give the Yak an advantage in close combat over all light fighters from 10 to 20 tons in weight. And for medium / long-range combat and interception of supersonic targets, there are RVV-SD and RVV-BD air-to-air missiles (the latter has no analogues).

                And what were the fights somewhere?
                IMHO 130 can only be a carrier of guided weapons, the benefit of the second pilot-operator is present, but at heights not available for MANPADS and anti-aircraft guns. Plus explosive rockets of near radius to snap.
                One problem is the price.
                And the J-10 models are all the same attractive until the MiG-35.
                Yes, the Koreans KAI T-50 Golden Eagle is not the same with the AGM-65 Maverick.

                stati Uzbeks wanted to buy but the USA did not give consent.
                1. Operator
                  Operator 30 June 2016 09: 41
                  0
                  If equipped with an OLS, the Yak-130 (especially in a single-seat version) will perfectly work on the ground. Chuguniev bombs and air-to-surface missiles are also included in the Yak's armament range.

                  Avionics provides flights at extremely low altitude. EW - any whim for your money. In general, a miracle platform. And it is several times cheaper than its classmates and planes of a higher class.

                  As for the expansion of guided missile weapons, Israel (already operating the Italian version of the Yak) will help you.
              2. Kaiten
                Kaiten 30 June 2016 21: 44
                0
                Quote: Operator
                The thrust-weight ratio, aerodynamic design, the area and the angle of sweep of the wing give Yak an advantage in close combat over all light fighters from 10 to 20 tons of weight.

                Gentlemen, has the story of the Turkish plane, when the pilot of the Russian attack aircraft landed a rocket in the tail, not even suspecting that he is "under the hood" of the Turkish F-16, has not taught anything? Believe me, it is very difficult to shoot down the F-16 in both long-range and close combat, especially on a combat modification of a training aircraft. Such a hat is then expensive.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Operator
                  Operator 30 June 2016 23: 02
                  +3
                  Firstly, the Russian aircraft was not an attack aircraft, but an obsolete model bomber;
                  secondly, the bomber was shot down with a passive thermal GOS missile, which is detected only by new PSO complexes with ultraviolet radiation sensors of the flare of the rocket engine;
                  thirdly, the Turkish fighter shot at point blank range;
                  fourthly, the bomber operated in the zone of unsuppressed Turkish air defense (in terms of radar);
                  fifthly, the bomber flew at an ideal altitude of 6000 meters in terms of attack;
                  sixth, a fighter attack was carried out without declaring war.

                  Under equal conditions, the highly maneuverable Yak-130, equipped with AI-222-25 engines with UVT and afterburner, can well win the battle with the F-16: thrust-weight ratio, specific wing load and missile composition allow this. The only drawback of Yak - the lack of radar with AFAR - is solved by modernization.
          2. Come on
            Come on 30 June 2016 00: 17
            0
            Are you seriously comparing the Yak130 with an aircraft of the F-16 level?)) From which side can it at least somehow compete, or withstand the battle of the F-16, or J-10 ??
            1. Operator
              Operator 30 June 2016 09: 44
              0
              See above about AI-222-25 with UVP and FC, as well as AFAR and OLS made in Israel.
      2. Kaiten
        Kaiten 30 June 2016 21: 26
        +2
        Quote: Operator
        As I understand it, for third-world countries, the competition for the light fighter J-10C (41 million $) in the near future will be a single-seat modification Yak-130 (15 million $).

        Unreal. Yak-130 has no afterburner. In modern aerial combat, he has no chance against Lavi / F-16 aircraft. He's just a good training plane.
        1. Parsec
          Parsec 30 June 2016 21: 37
          0
          Quote: Kaiten
          there is no chance against Lavi / F-16 aircraft.


          How many units on Lavi in ​​the Air Force of Israel and other countries?
          1. Kaiten
            Kaiten 30 June 2016 21: 48
            0
            Quote: Parsec
            How many units on Lavi in ​​the Air Force of Israel and other countries?

            Lavi was never released in a series. But an airplane like Lavi is just the J-10 and the Chinese have a lot of them.
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 29 June 2016 21: 13
      +1
      Quote: ArikKhab
      it will turn out to be a pretty good (although not perfect) inexpensive fighter.

      Why inexpensive? Already the J-10B with AFAR is very expensive. It’s not yet clear how to get the J-10C, but it certainly won’t become cheaper. The main problem in export promotion is the lack of the possibility of mass production of engines for it, plus the low reliability of the engine itself.
      Quote: ArikKhab
      Russia currently has nothing to oppose - single-engine light fighters are not only not being built, but (officially) are not designed. although it is not clear why for the purposes of the same air defense over the land part of the country to contain only twin-engine fighters (which are more expensive in all respects). Well, export is suffering

      I don’t have any time for fat. If the Su-27 modernization project, which has been dragging on since the beginning of the 80s, was hardly mastered, then there weren’t enough opportunities for the MiG-29 yet. And you’re talking about new single-engine ...
      We would bring the T-50 to mind and produce it in a number of 300-400 boards, and that would be a miracle.
      "In the absence of a stamp, they write in simple".
  12. iouris
    iouris 24 September 2016 16: 12
    0
    And what will prevent China from becoming a leader in the development of aviation technology in the medium term?
  13. octogen
    octogen 8 September 2019 22: 53
    0
    Namesake Damantsev, what the hell fighter capabilities of an aircraft with a DSI air intake?